streamchat

[green plank]

but everyone is aware of whats actually happening

[teal zodiac]

i mean, many many times you can do something about your own community but sometimes, and maybe this is one of those cases, people can get very emotional very fast and start acting like that. A passionate community, for good or bad, can be very hard to restrain and talk to

[cursive solar]

thats why talking needs to happen, cause everyone gets the idea behind the movement to an extent, but its poorly worded and could help with more insight especially from devs

[nocturne oasis]

handheld pc 100% of the time

[minor nymph]

Nah dude.
Shit on the only dev speaking out against it.
Call a wellness check on his house.
Tell him to kill himself.
Call him a corpo shill.
Boycott his games and review bomb them.
Tell people he fucks the ferrets in his rescue.

That's the right way to handle this situation... right?

Man, I love collaboration.

[thick ledge]

people are so normal and well adjusted

im so glad that people curate thier communities

[gloomy forge]

for most very online people, its about creating a story, about "the good guys" vs "the bad evil villian".

this is literally that wow thing season 2.

[hardy ingot]

That ferret part really hurt given the recent event with SaveAFox 😦

[small patio]

damn i didn't know about that ferret claim, who said that?

[cursive solar]

that still shouldnt be why 2 people dont talk tho, its not something that one person or one person with employess/mods can do about

[small patio]

that's rancid

[green plank]

hey thor those people are weird man, you met a lot of cool people at the conventions and stuff, thats a better view of reality

twitter is like more of an alternate reality

[teal zodiac]

wait, what's a wellness check?

[thick ledge]

ive seen that claim on several occasions

[fluid dome]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this dude. You don't deserve any of this crap.

[spare topaz]

when the police get called out

[thick ledge]

@teal zodiac they send the police to your house and tell them your gonna hurt yourself or someone else

[small patio]

isn't that swatting?

oh

[teal zodiac]

oh lord....no way....

[small patio]

little better?

[thick ledge]

swatting is the worse version

[jolly sky]

It's a "Caring Troll" version of swatting

[broken hound]

basically calling the cops to check on someone cause you think theyre gonna do something drastic or have done something essentially

[small patio]

haven't heard of a wellness check before

[gloomy forge]

Its not just twitter, its all social media. I feel peope get it twisted thinking everything on twitter is just insular shit, obviously it sweeps to other shit too.

[spare topaz]

yes, except this version is "theyre gonna kill themselves" not "theyre gonna kill others" - the others one gets the swat

[cursive solar]

thats not right and anyone with a brain would say thats wrong, im sure ross would also say thats awful, there is absolutely nothing he or you can do about it

[hardy ingot]

But yeah it's insane to me how people react to someone having concerns about something they claim to think of in serious manner but clearly don't if they're unwilling to accept criticism or counterpoints

[tight bramble]

My personal take is i genuinely don't mind if somw games just fade away. Immortality leads to stagnation which turns to hedonism. Memories are vital for the human experience, as they give context for the past, appreciation for the preset, and hope that the future brings new memories. You owe it your future self to allow things to leave. Do I want gaming as a hobby to go away? No, of course not. But i haven't played swtor in 12 years, and I still love it.

[thick ledge]

never once has he told people not to do this

infact hes currently weaponizing it for more attention

[frozen nimbus]

They called a fricken wellness check??

[jolly sky]

I really, really hate quick access, "viewable to all" social media platforms

[minor nymph]

Fuckit. I will always fight for my ideals.
I don't give a shit who it's against.
I built this entire community on the ideal that you can learn new shit

That's the entire damn point.
Normalize understanding things on the dev side.
Show people they can be devs.

This entire movement has done an insane amount of damage to that ideal in the public eye.
It's turned everything into an us vs them shitshow where the "them" is anyone making games.

[cursive solar]

i guess all i can say he has but just under youtube comments, i know thats not alot

[grim pine]

You said you didn't want to discuss with ross because you thought he was disingenuous. Even if you truly believe you were right, that was clearly the wrong call. You don't even oppose the entire movement, just several aspects of it.

You keep saying devs need to collaborate, but the sad part is...
You are the dev that had the ability to make change, and instead you, after seeing Ross describe your viewpoint as 'misunderstood' decided it wasn't worth your time. Even if you're right and ross is wrong, or you're wrong and ross is right, nothing comes about without mutual discussion. And you closed that door 10 months ago.

[hardy ingot]

As Josh Strife Hayes said in one of his videos I remember, fight the idea, never fight the man

[thick ledge]

weither intentional or not

[cursive solar]

exactly this

josh strife hayes has been one of the only people i completely agree with

[minor nymph]

When they can't beat the idea they just go after me.

[frozen nimbus]

The ferret thing is also disgusting, some people really need to touch grass

[frigid crown]

Actually untrue and early on in his initial posts did he say he doesn't want people doing that and then avoided talking about him for the rest of the campaign until recently

[vivid maple]

im like dude wtf is wrong with people lately and then i realize lots of them are just stupid as all heck

[teal zodiac]

but...that's not at all my point? I said that people review bombing Heartbound on steam is part of the drama, a part that i hate and despise of all that, i have no clue where you got the part about the 2 of them talking in private

[green plank]

so are you condoning the harassment, yes or no

[thick ledge]

he talked about him for 33 minutes without a single moment of saying hey dont attack this dude

[hardy ingot]

Of course, doesn't require thinking, clearly the simple "solution"

[grim pine]

What has that got to do with anything?

[thick ledge]

idc if he put some youtube comment somewhere, the dude has been online for 2 decades, he knows how it works

[small patio]

the annoying one is the people i have seen saying "what you said and did to oppose is wrong, i haven't watched the videos but i have a full picture"

[grim pine]

You can't keep using harassment from other people as a shield.

[gloomy forge]

@tight bramble based GIGACHAD. I think every game should, over the course of history, be archived somewhat. But yeah of course shit must change too, some games are more prone to stay unknown forever. Video Games are for everyone but that oversaturation lead to some games to become "cult classics" rather than more known.

[green plank]

yall xD

[cursive solar]

then talk to him, i want people to be united but not talking is just dividing, and yes i agree the toxic fans are awful, but talking wont make the situation better or worse

[thick ledge]

it can absolutely make it worse

100%

ive seen it happen

[minor nymph]

Tell me you didn't read this without telling me you didn't read this.
https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1937994967961706588

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

Just talked to Charlie and Josh Strife Hayes for a bit in DMs.

If you're mad at me for being a dick to Ross I get it and I'm sorry for that. I should not have lashed out but I had an emotional response due to how important this subject is to me.

On the developer side I have

X · Jun 25, 2025, 10:03 PM

[frigid crown]

I was more refuting the 1st point, and yeah it's not great but I really don't think it was his intention

[grim pine]

I read that one. That's not Ross. And that's still 10 months too late.

[green plank]

"what does me threatening all your employees got to do with you helping our movement :O"

[cursive solar]

no no, i was just saying that id like to see them talk, cant believe people review bombed heartbound

[green plank]

:O

[minor nymph]

Bro, wut.

[thick ledge]

he never explicitly states its malicious and so i have no evidence of it, but hes been online for 2 decades, he knows exactly what can happen online and did it anyway

[green plank]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blast-shocked-omg-wow-mind-blown-gif-5194406635956370896

[spare topaz]

your words inspired me and my partner to start making a TTRPG system from scratch, because someone told us we could do it. Tarnish fades away with time, but the things you've encouraged this community to be and do will endure. Hang in there bud, especially with the tone of the internet these days this little corner is more important to folk like me than ever before

[vivid maple]

i read some of that and i think you explained it well.

[tight bramble]

Thank you 😊

[green plank]

wait, when you threaten ppl they dont feel like engaging with you :O wh- REALLY??

what??

[gloomy forge]

😮 imagine my shock

[green plank]

no way

[thick ledge]

thor does not have to debate bro this guy for him to be allowed to have an opinion on it

demanding that is rediculous

[frozen nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-raccoon-absolute-cinema-gif-17862327649353748812

Im also starting on my own game soon

[thick ledge]

this isnt here for you to get more content from it

[hardy ingot]

Yeah... Ross was also 10 months too late with his reaction... Why are people not bitching at him then?

[jolly sky]

Why would you want to engage with someone who's following has majoritively only shown absolutely heinous actions

[frigid crown]

Should he have led with that, in his new video, yes, again I was just correcting that he has in fact called it out before

[grim pine]

I'm glad you acknowledge you lashed out, and I get it's an important subject. But talking as a way to mitigate the damage now isn't actually addressing the problem. Screw the damage, if you think strongly about it and want devs to partake in the conversation, do that.

[cursive solar]

i would more so like thor and ross to talk to actually do something about the issue, not to change opinions, if theres a better way of doing this then thor could help with that

[tight bramble]

If you don't call it absolute cinema: the movie: the game, I'm gonna be sad.

[green plank]

WHY ARERNT PEOPLE UPSET WITH MOISTCRITICAL, he has 16 million subs thor has 2 million

[grim pine]

Ross should've reacted sooner too. But Thor said he wouldn't entertain a discussion after reading Ross's tweet, remember.

It goes both ways, acting like it doesn't is stupid.

There's no sides, there's something we all want in different ways

[green plank]

and get this... charlie ssaid HE WAS FOR IT xD

[warped venture]

He is having active conversations about this right now?

[green plank]

bro

logic

LMAO

[thick ledge]

why should thor endure more of this for ross? why didnt any of the drama tubers, if they care so much, speak out for the movement before now?

[jolly sky]

Again, why would anyone want to engage with someone who's following has majoritively acted in absolutely heinous ways

[small patio]

I have valued what you said on the subject of investing in my own skills in the face of technological change a lot, and though my issues now are happening despite that investment, I feel better about the future because of it. @minor nymph thanks for speaking what you truely believe

[grim pine]

i dont ahve twitter so i havent actually read all his tweets, only the two linked, and none of them mentioned convo with ross.

[vivid maple]

https://tenor.com/view/okay-sounds-good-jim-halpert-the-office-good-point-gif-1570599340039365094

[hardy ingot]

Frankly Ross should not be the one leading the movement anyway, I know he said he didn't want to but the real reason is because he made it clear he's NOT willing to compromise

[green plank]

guys lets harass the smaller guy that isnt interested VS the person with a 10x larger following who voiced interest in it 😂

LMAO

[thick ledge]

absolute radio silence about the movement from huge creators like critikal

[green plank]

imagen being that stupid

[cursive solar]

they did, josh strife hayes had ross on to talk with him, he was on mutahars podcast, the only other person would be charlie and im unsure about him

[gloomy forge]

@small patio you're a nice guy glad to have ya here.

[vivid maple]

dont forget mutahar

[fluid dome]

And it's that mindset that tuned me into your content a year ago. Everything you've built here with this community is inspirational.

I was in a bad way last year, and a lot of stuff was really hammering me into the ground, constantly losing motivation, dealing with toxic family and grief. But your streams and your content was something that regularly kept me from doing something that would harmed myself.

So thank you for that, really.

I may not agree with your takes all the time, but I respect the hell out of you for just being a consistent presence for me. It was something I sorely needed for my personal year of hell.

You're kickass. Keep doing cool stuff.

[green plank]

YEA HIM TO XD

[warped venture]

I think you should read the full context before engaging in this further, respectfully

[teal zodiac]

Honestly, i really appreciate the part where Thor explains that none of his recent videos about the topic are monetized. This sounds so important to me, gives a lot of credibility and accountability

[thick ledge]

mutahar is a bigger creator than thor, so how is it fair to say thor killed the movement, if he spoke openly in support of it

[cursive solar]

ross was on mutahars podcast

[broken hound]

real talk? has the proposal changed at all since months ago? or is it still the way too vague mess that needs multiple videos to show what it actually is about? cause if its still the same i do hope it fails. and thats coming from someone who addored the crew and loves the core concept of the movent.

mainly because as ross has said himself polititians are idiots and theyll only see whats on the paper and will vote on whats on the paper. only 2 ways thatll go, getting thrown out cause old school polis dont care or wwill end with the gov taking as much as they can and turning it into the horror stories we've heard from some countries where govs are just stranging the industry.

[vivid maple]

wait when was this

[grim pine]

People are gonna be like that, is that justifiable reason to not try to work with something you "feel strongly about"?

[thick ledge]

also no one watches podcasts

[cursive solar]

why are you now changing to something different, i didnt mention anything just now about thor killing the movement

[cursive solar]

2 secs lemme try find it

[thick ledge]

ross said he did in the video

[grim pine]

I think "thor killed the movement" is an exhaggeration

[hardy ingot]

Well it is a great reason not to work with someone who refuses to be reasonable

[jolly sky]

Yes it absolutely is

[cursive solar]

okay, but the point is i didnt, random to just bring up in the middle of something else we were talking about

[thick ledge]

it absolutely is, why is he not allowed to disagree on the thing

[small patio]

this, 100%. I love that i can see thor post something i dont agree with, but in part because of what he has said, not agreeing with everything isn't a deal breaker and both makes me trust his judgement more but more importantly allows me to think critically about what is actually being said

[grim pine]

10 months ago before any attack could've happened, Thor said he was unwilling for discussion because he believed Ross to be disingenuous. Anything that comes after that is pretty much irrelevant.

Also, are we focusing on the issue or are we focusing on blaming each other

[green plank]

"hey uh lets wait 1 month before the end of the movement before ever mentioning it, and lets predomintaly just use the vid to toss that thor guy under a bus or something"

[grim pine]

This is what I hate about this conversation. Just talk, ffs.

[jolly sky]

The attacks happened literally overnight, 10 months ago

[small patio]

at least with thor i can always trust that what is being said is geniune opinions/thoughts

[thick ledge]

we are talking

thor doesnt want to debate ross

thats pretty much it

[plucky quail]

Lol we have been talking for hours

[cursive solar]

well thats kinda what the guy was getting at

[thick ledge]

people refuse to accept that

and hes somehow bad for not wanting to get even deeper in this mire of shit than he already is

[plucky quail]

Because ross's mentality is diometrically opposed to thors there isnt a point

[broken hound]

from memory he said he was unwilling to cause ross was too emotion fueled which is very much true for most of the movements supporters

[thick ledge]

i wouldnt want to touch ross with a 10 foot pole if his fans are going to do wellness checks on my house in response

[frozen nimbus]

Reminds me of the thing he send earlier

Let me find it

[gloomy forge]

Anyways, imagine my shock when even after all of this went down and the petition goes nowhere instead of instrospecting whether or not they should've done more groundwork into the subject. They instead all blame the failure on Thor, rather than actually working towards the goals. Now that those big youtubers are on the case, surely the initiative can still be done.

[vast furnace]

demanding some debate like this is a political office run is wild. Debates dont work to change anyones minds nor does it ever proove who is more right or more wrong. No one goes to a debate to change their own mind and neither does their followes.

[grim pine]

If Thor doesn't want to discuss with Ross, that's kind've a problem. How can he say "This initiative needs devs to work with it to work, but they aren't in a position to do so" when he's in a position to do so but doesn't do so.

Like, what?

[thick ledge]

sending people with guns to my house because i dont agree with oyu online is crazy

[formal kestrel]

i wouldnt want to talk with someone that waited 10 months to respond to critisisms i made about what they were doing and tried to pin the entire reason it failed on me either

[grim pine]

Be the change you want to be

[thick ledge]

so i wouldnt want to interact with that community AT ALL

[jolly sky]

Find a better representative

[green plank]

clearly the core message of the movement is that if there is a person in your life demanding that you speak with them you must obey there will (this is a great message for abuse survivors btw!)

[hardy ingot]

You cannot discuss the issue with someone who is dead set on their points and is unwilling to compromise, that's just talking into a brick wall. As you yourself said, it's a movement, there were more people backing it who could've discussed it as mediators, noone volunteered.

Why would I enter a debate about something important with someone I know is not interested in finding common ground but just repeating his stubborn views?

[frozen nimbus]

This

[small patio]

why doesn't twitter let me see most recent posts first, what a terrible platform

[thick ledge]

because twitter sucks eggs

you have to be logged in to see posts in order

[sand solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/piratesoftware-thor-i-hate-you-internet-gif-4950465273846404545

[small patio]

ah

[thick ledge]

its awful

[hardy ingot]

In this case that someone is leading the movement, which is a problem, because that means the movement cannot be adjusted to any common ground

[cursive solar]

the only reason why ive heard that thor doesnt want to talk to ross is because he doesnt like him and the movement, i dont think that makes sense cause the initiative couldve been improved if they spoke but hey, who am i to tell someone they can or cant do something tbf

[green plank]

if someone yells at you loud enough you become there slave, thats howw social situations work guys! :D

[thick ledge]

otherwise it randomly scrambles the tweets

[frozen nimbus]

Yeah im just now hearing about this welfare check

[cursive solar]

ill probably be called and viewed as just "one of those haters"

[plucky quail]

Thor is not required to fix the movement. He can make comments disagree and move on WHICH HE DID

[thick ledge]

why is it thors responsibility to improve it while enduring death threats

[green plank]

OH especially if they have a following or money, if a popular person gives you commands your there slave that how life works apperently

[hardy ingot]

Thing is he made his critique in the videos. It's Ross's choice to interpret it as him misunderstanding the initiative

[frigid crown]

I'm still hesitant to throw most of the movements supporters in with the people spreading mindless hate. I don't know if there's a way to clearly separate them when it's just another thing to latch onto and use to "justify" their hate.

[vast furnace]

thor has publically stated that he has called for SWAT protection in his local area. Wellness check protection however, is not swatting so I don't think the police flagged it.

a clever way to get around that but still scummy

[thick ledge]

i dont think its everyone, but its enough people that i wouldnt want to engage anymore

[cursive solar]

thats why i said who am i tell him he can or cant do something, i swear people just read the first sentence and thats it

[thick ledge]

for my own safety even

[teal zodiac]

My grandfather used to say "Sometimes you need to decide if you wanna be in peace or if you wanna fight for what you believe is right. It's not always an easy choice, but its one you must voluntarily make."

[hardy ingot]

If the points he made in that video just got considered instead of entire internet throwing a hissy fit about him disagreeing with the motion, they could've been working on addressing those issues in meantime, they did not.

[spare topaz]

social media has carefully cultivated all of us to only read the headline, sadly

[formal kestrel]

ross had ages to clear up things about it too, but didnt

[thick ledge]

"oh pirate has some good points, lets address those and then re engage with him"

would be the adult way of dealing with it

[cursive solar]

i disagree on why thor wont talk to him, but i also understand that its not up to me

is that better

[hardy ingot]

Instead they all thrown a hissy fit and then 10 months later decided to whine about it and call it misinformation in a last ditch effort to push their original idea with no adjustments

[cursive solar]

much shorter for people to read

[jolly sky]

No, we read the whole thing, hence our comments on it not being Thors responsbility to fix the movement, which was 2/3rds of the way through your comment

[green plank]

🤦‍♀️ guys none of us have autonomy, moiscritical said thor bad, please stop having your own perspectives, he is a very big youtuber with a lot of money (please we must remember our places, thankyou 🤦‍♀️ )

[frozen nimbus]

"Nah let's just send a death threat and say disgusting things instead"

[cursive solar]

its in there so why gloss over it

[frozen nimbus]

People need to go outside

[formal kestrel]

@ grok please explain

XD

[thick ledge]

[formal kestrel]

(im sorry i will never do that again)

[jolly sky]

We literally did not gloss over it, hence our comments on it not being Thors responsbility to fix the movement

[frozen nimbus]

Ofc ofc

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[frigid crown]

He's said it already that he didn't want to keep pushing it after discussion was turned down. His FAQ video explicitly didn't mention Thor despite talking about some of the points he had issues with from his video.

[kindred holly]

Jesus, I never expected Charlie to post a video about Thor

[spare topaz]

a really cool example of this is a youtuber called Miniminuteman - hes an archeology, geolog and history communicator, and he got called out by a historian for inaccuracies. He did an hour long video explaining what he said, where he was wrong, and what the actual information was. It was such a breath of fresh air as a response

[vivid maple]

im about to go check it out

[cursive solar]

so you were agreeing? i understand its not his responsiblity?

[weak spindle]

Shout-out Milo!!!! Love that guy

[teal zodiac]

My friend, i'm playing League right now, do you really think i should have any level of autonomy??

[hardy ingot]

oh boy

[gloomy forge]

@spare topaz I feel social media has done irredeemable damage to peoples thinking skills too. Why would you THINK if you could just listen to what YOUR content creator says. Just do your part. At least during newspaper days people spend some time acknowledging stuff that is written there.

[earnest mirage]

order is messed up.
Supporters from the initiative asked thor over and over again. Thor made it a video. Ross called Thor "Our biggest critic" and things like"I think he would be against it regardless" and then his community god mad and attacking Thor, Shaye and make sure to tell everyone he engaged with (CodeMiko, Bao, etc.) why they don't like him and should stop engaging with thor on stream...
In reaction to this attacks Thor refused to engage with this completely.

[mellow goblet]

oh joy

[vivid maple]

oh thats on my home page

[nocturne oasis]

the farming continues

[hardy ingot]

just found it on mine too

[jolly sky]

"cause the initiative couldve been improved if they spoke"

Not quite you said there

[thick ledge]

if yo--

did he post another video

[formal kestrel]

as a moba player myself, most moba players definitely shouldnt

[muted robin]

honestly it's been a race to the bottom to see people cannibalize this as fast as possible lol

[frozen nimbus]

[weak spindle]

Just now yeah

[frozen nimbus]

Hey thor might wanna see this

[white mica]

and i have now blocked content from charlie

[gloomy forge]

the PirateSoftware situation is INSANE, absolute CRAZY, makes me wanna RUN A CIRCLE ON THE GROUND like Homer Simpson did in that one episode (it also changed my life).

[frozen nimbus]

Hold up let me go watch the video

[vast pilot]

yep

[cursive solar]

thats near the beginning, are we arguing semantics now?

[vast pilot]

him and muta

[hardy ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnolgHHqdIk there you go

[nocturne oasis]

time to trust but verify guys

[elder scaffold]

Oh boy, here we go, another flood incoming 😭

[muted robin]

personally i think thor should keep not talking to any of these people because they don't deserve the respect and also bc it's just more "debate me bro debade me bro debate me debate me why won't you debate me" bullcorn

[vast furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/ready-charge-war-ready-knights-ready-to-attack-gif-12855805474489285173

[green plank]

ok thats reasonable lol

[hardy ingot]

"I don't think of this as drama" well.. the internet disagreed 😄

[cursive solar]

oh wait my bad, just checked the message again

[spare topaz]

social media is something our minds simply was not evolved to handle. The thoughts and ideas of billions of people, corporations, and other entities, all funneled into our eyeballs in real time. We are now seeing the effects of our brains simply not being able to keep up with all of it, after its been settling into our world for the last 20 years

[cursive solar]

it was around about the middle

[teal zodiac]

That's why i'm starting the KAV, Kill All Videogames. It's already enough, we had a good run, lets all move on

[indigo wadi]

What's the tldr? I don't wanna give muta the view nor want it in my algo

[cursive solar]

but still semantics

[mellow goblet]

man this is rough to see

[muted robin]

ppl are just mad af that thor refuses to sit there and be lectured by ppl who continuously demonstrate they have no good faith at all. literally same thing happened with the stupid hardcore wow thing. ppl were soooo mad about him leaving the yamato call but he was so right to do that

"nah i'm good"

[hardy ingot]

so far am on 2nd minute and he just praised the jump in signatures since yesterday

[vast furnace]

"politicians want easy wins"

[kindred holly]

This is f-ing exhausting. What's even the "big update" at this point?

[indigo wadi]

Bleh

[jolly sky]

Precisely what I think as well. Our brains are still in the "Small Village" evolutionarily, and technology in less than 100 years has far outreached our evolutionary mindset

[white mica]

i wonder when asmongold will make a video reacting to all of this stuff

[indigo wadi]

Probably

[mellow goblet]

Oh god

[tight bramble]

Amazing movie btw

[white mica]

i said when not if

[teal zodiac]

I also want an easy win
All my wins from now on should be easy

[cursive solar]

one thing ive noticed, once i make it clear that im on one side, even if i end up agreeing with something the other side says, ill either be ignored or treated with less respect because im not on "their side", i can agree about different things and have my own thoughts, im not fully one side

[hardy ingot]

... he's reacting to Thor's comment under his MYM video... okay...

[earnest mirage]

yes

[indigo wadi]

Oh lord

[vast furnace]

i too consider legislation over a multibillion dollar industry an "easy win" that can be pushed through

[frozen nimbus]

Video is unavailable can someone summerize for me 🙏

[thick ledge]

wow

what a jerk

[spare topaz]

thing is, i am sympathetic to the intentions of SKG, i just fundamentally disagree with how theyre framing it, and how they have worded it - we're in the same boat on that front

[blissful imp]

Charlie uploaded his https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTp4Am51i0

[thick ledge]

just watched the first like 3 minutes of the new moist critical video and he just shits all over thor

even more

[teal zodiac]

Compared to the other things that are happening around the world i highly doubt this would catch his attention
but thn again....yappers need to yapp i guess

[vast pilot]

didn't thor talk to him in DMs?

[thick ledge]

he likens him to nails on a chalkboard

what a class act

[blissful imp]

Charlie putting his name in the thumbnail

[jolly sky]

Charlie and JoshStrifeSays also had some DM's over twitter yes

[vivid maple]

idk if i can even get through the first 3 minutes of mutas latest video

[thick ledge]

yeah apparently it was just info gathering for a hit piece

i wont be watching his video again, jesus

[spare topaz]

ffs, these people are really showing themselves to just be grifters

[hardy ingot]

So far
Praising the jump in signatures
now reacting to Thor's MYM pinned comment
now apparently explaining what MYM is... we'll see on, we're only 25% through and nothing happened

[blissful imp]

Who

[frozen nimbus]

Mym?

[blissful imp]

muta?

[hardy ingot]

Meet your maker game

[gloomy forge]

HUGE developments, MASSIVE even. Changing my life in real time frfr.

Bro, dramaslop is so exhausting I could never keep up with this.

[white mica]

meet your maker

[green plank]

"i care about it" -doesnt mention it on his own channel

[cursive solar]

that at least makes me feel a bit better, thanks, i feel like shit when im treated differently just cause i dont fully agree with one side, i shouldnt be surprised tho cause it is the internet, if i dont fully agree with one side ill either be called a ross or thor hater

[teal zodiac]

what is a grifter?

[vivid maple]

both muta and charlie

[thick ledge]

moist critical just put out another video about it and its rude as f for no reason

[mellow goblet]

I just hate to see this entire thing blow up in the way it did.

[spare topaz]

muta and moist - they are piling more fuel on the fire

[thick ledge]

he KNOWS its gonna stoke shit more

thats the intent i guess

[frozen nimbus]

Would think that talking over DMs would clear stuff up

[muted robin]

thor's tweet i guess

[frozen nimbus]

Makes sense

[gloomy forge]

@teal zodiac its someone without a horse to lose in a race just using their "clout" in order to earn money. basically latching on something (any movement) and earning money from it.

[hardy ingot]

Now an argument has been made in the video that Thor "didn't even ship one videogame out the door yet"

[kindred holly]

I like Charlie but he's always been pretty toxic with gaming and entertainment news in general. This is just exhausting.

[indigo wadi]

Wtf

[frozen nimbus]

[green plank]

wow, i dont think ive felt this upset in a very long time, this is like the "this is so dumb its looping into comedy" type thing

[spare topaz]

the internet has no nuance these days - its one of the reasons i like this community so much; the basic principle is "trust, but verify". Thor has never once told us to take him at his word, but to go and read the things for ourselves and make our own determination. Discussions in good faith are a rare thing these days, they should be cherished

[indigo wadi]

No kidding? Thor has always stated that?

[vivid maple]

why should thor back down from his stances

[nocturne oasis]

there's a number of people here who like the idea of teh initiative just that it needs more work which has not happened in the past 10mos after Thor's critique on it.

[frozen nimbus]

He isnt... and is there a problem?

[fluid dome]

Wait so he talked with Thor just for this video?

[teal zodiac]

oh, somewhat like a con artist or those that push scams?

[frozen nimbus]

Not really

[teal zodiac]

hmmm

[hardy ingot]

Okay now he's on about littleBigArchive site, intending to go over some tech apparently that is being used for "Game preservation"

[spare topaz]

and stoop to their level?

[frozen nimbus]

Just someone who tries to profit off of any drama without actually caring for it I think

[thick ledge]

he did ship a game out the door, its called champions of breakfast

[brazen drift]

managed to get through the whole charlie video and he calls him a narccisist simply because he "refuses to aknowledge his mistakes" but then immediately says "at least he admitted he was wrong for talking about ross the way he did" you can't have both

[hardy ingot]

I am not the one making the argument

[frozen nimbus]

Oh ok nvm

[nocturne oasis]

let's be more evolved than that

[brazen drift]

a narccisist wouldnt have even apologized for that

[earnest spire]

they are still saying he misinterpret about the movement which i guess they are all on about

[frozen nimbus]

Lol

[main citrus]

While I dont agree with Thor, I still respect him as a person. The people who are taking this too far are just, well, I understand Thor blocking them and everything.

[thick ledge]

were above attacking people back on shit they cant control chat

dont go spreading shit about these creators

im just very disappointed in them

[green plank]

actually, you know, if people are just gonna make up lies...

[thick ledge]

and wont be consuming thier content in the future

[frozen nimbus]

It wont make us any better than the haters themselves

[indigo wadi]

Try and act in good faith and this is what they do

[subtle violet]

See, why can't more people do this thing

[indigo wadi]

Eff muta, eff charlie

[subtle violet]

The civil thing

[mellow goblet]

tbh the idea in general about STG is not a bad one in theory.
but the execution, idk.

[spare topaz]

agreed - viewtime in this space is king, and i plan on giving these people none

[hardy ingot]

Right am putting the video on higher speed cos he's yapping about nothing too much

[kindred holly]

I think I'm just going to take a break from this community. This entire thing has been too much for me.

[main citrus]

Because people are assholes.

[subtle violet]

I thought these fellers were trustworthy. Hollywood robs us of more free-minded civvies

[frozen sonnet]

Yup I’ll be unsubbing from Charlie

[supple cedar]

Y'all are still trusting an internet hippie and a man paid for manipulation in the past? Crazy stuff.

[tight bramble]

Ya know.....my name is Charlie. This throws me off SO HARD lmao

[proper prism]

Thor is totally right on this and I really wish more folks would speak up on it. Legal Eagle pleeeease! "Ownership" entails a hell of a lot more than people think under law and it is a super important one for protecting creators. It absolutely gets abused but doing away with it is a terrible idea.

[subtle violet]

I'm just sad and confused.

[green plank]

its ironic cause charlie is ALSO smug!

[wary drift]

I'm surprised that it comes as this much of a surprise to people that professional drama farmers are bottom feeders

[elder scaffold]

Why did you upload that video charlie 😭 /jk

[brisk grove]

can someone explain or point me in the direction of why the stop killing games thing is bs?

[mossy timber]

sad, had hope Charlie would try to measure the situation instead of just pick a side and dig in

[brazen drift]

the TL;DR of that entire 13 minute video is "I dont like that Pirate Software didn't aknowledge that he misrepresented the SKG movement, even on accident, and hes a narccisist because he doesn't agree with our opinions"

[main citrus]

[brisk grove]

im totally new to this and just watched the video and am so lost

[teal zodiac]

Legal Eagle is one HELL of a good name

[nocturne forge]

Well, the hate is gonna get much much worse. Done with the charlie vid. My conclusion you either eat the internets ass and talk like them, or get out.
Ive noticed before, bow down and be supported. No room for discorse left.

[green plank]

i honestly hope ross has a terrible life and that issues involving this movement follow him forever

[jolly sky]

Don't wish for this

[vivid maple]

oh i have seen people on twitter call him that

[nocturne oasis]

don't

[hardy ingot]

Because it expects devs to cover the insanely increased costs to make every game with online features fully functional once servers shut down, doesn't make proper distinction for different game types, ignores licensing and stuff...

[frigid crown]

Jesus man

[still jungle]

I don't agree with Thor, but I get his input. I really like Thor, my 2 cents is that. I think nuance is kinda lost in this situation rather than taking the worst case scenario no?

[mossy timber]

essentially it has just fallen apart into drama farming and not actually caring about game preservation

[strong ice]

what a unhinged take

[nocturne forge]

Dont thats aint the way

[supple cedar]

It really is that hard to think independently these days isn't it

[thick ledge]

i understand the frustration seeing someone attacked like crazy, but wishing bad on others doesnt make it better

[nocturne oasis]

like how new and what video?

[jolly sky]

Don't stoop to the same level that some supporters behind Ross did

[frozen nimbus]

No

[thick ledge]

3 minutes ago new

[frozen nimbus]

^

Its not making us any better

[brisk grove]

like never heard of the movement before the charlie video lol. been absent from streams for a while

[proper prism]

Because it's around a law that does things such as preventing record labels from having to provide you infinite replacements for your used up vinyl or preventing you from white labeling a drake album.

It gets abused by video game companies and people are upset so they started a movement.

However, doing away with the law is a terrible idea as it would remove these protections. Should it be adjusted to prevent the shitty practices of game companies? Absolutely. But we need to find an alternative instead of just opposing the law itself.

[green plank]

people where claiming thor was abusing the animals at his rescue, how is what i said unhinged

[hardy ingot]

Right, halfway through SOG's vid, so far only thing he's done was praise progress on signatures, talk about MYM, now calling Thor's view on game preservation based on comment under MYM video pretentious..

[mellow goblet]

bro what

[thick ledge]

its sucks because this community is usually such a chill and fun place to be and then people attack the shit out ofhim and ruin it for a while

[formal kestrel]

thats just as bad as all the crap coming the other way, dont do this

[frozen nimbus]

Just because that was bad doesn't mean yours wasnt either

[frigid crown]

Because Ross himself wasn't claiming that?

[thick ledge]

no that happened and is still happening

[vast furnace]

are these "people" in the room with us rightn ow?

[edgy oar]

New Charlie video "There is no one out there saying it's entirely PirateSoftware's fault the initiative failed" YES THERE IS. THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE.

[frozen nimbus]

Some supporters were

[jolly sky]

Because wishing the same on other people makes you the same as them. And also, Ross wasn't the one saying that.

[mellow goblet]

Huh?

[thick ledge]

people alleged baselessly that thor was abusing his rescue ferrets

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/honest-word-its-honest-work-it-aint-much-it-aint-much-but-its-honest-work-gif-13763573

[minor nymph]

We had an entire conversation in DMs.
He had no solution to the issue I have with making a game remain in a "Playable Functional State"
Then he said I misrepresented the movement but wouldn't accept that my video covers it in full.
Then put out a callout post video.

Fun.

[mellow goblet]

What a wild claim

[proper prism]

That was a hilarious thing for him to say and then follow it up with, "But there is irrefutable proof."

[spare topaz]

the community will survive, and the chill times will come back. For now, we must weather the Hurricane Grifter

[vivid maple]

ross' fanbase is very deranged

[mossy timber]

for one, Ross

[muted robin]

i would personally recommend just reading the initiative/watching ross' first video on it, then watching thor's response video to it, and forming your opinion from there. thor's responses in particular are no more than like 10 ish minutes combined. watching a video of someone covering it is just gonna give you more drama

[indigo wadi]

Rolfmao, seriously?

[mellow goblet]

man

[formal kestrel]

just because others said something similar/worse doesnt give you an excuse to do the same the other direction,

[hardy ingot]

classic

[green plank]

good job muta and charlie :]

[strong ice]

Kendo go do something else

[gloomy forge]

Yeah I think SKG is awesome, just needs more refinement and more clarity. Otherwise EU parliament they just will yoink and digest the idea and making something suboptimal out of it. This is a topic that needs a ton of support from both gamers, developers and everyone in between though.

I think going nonprofit self-financed group of enthusiasts that work actively to make the change, talk to developers who made games back then. Maybe a store or a free repository. Otherwise things won't really change. Legislature like this will have so many "no-nos" because it goes against preestablished copyright and license ownership laws. I feel theres a good middleground somewhere between all of this but that change will require decades.

[frigid crown]

Again supporters vs. hate train riders. That was happening back in the WoW drama was it not? Just things bad actors will hang onto

[left yoke]

here's your attention you want so badly

[indigo wadi]

And ppl want you to talk to Ross

[still jungle]

I think you need to take a chill pill from discord muchacho

[brisk grove]

gotcha, appreciated it. was just confused wtf was going on lol

[strong ice]

you just spreading hate

[jolly sky]

The more you say things like this, the more chance you have on being removed from this server

[mellow goblet]

what in the ragebait

[earnest spire]

I guess the internet is set o7

[subtle violet]

Hey guy have you had some rest yet?

[minor nymph]

Timed out for 24 hours.
Post deleted.

[thick ledge]

why are internet personalities so 2 faced

[zenith summit]

Which game would you need an example for with a playable functional state?

[nocturne forge]

I just hope Thor doesnt have to leave is because unhinged intenet hate. Ive seen this too many times always the best ones go

[brazen drift]

Charlie making a video after talking to you is the same as getting into an argument with a popular kid in highschool and then they talk about you behind your back KNOWING you'll hear it

[mellow goblet]

cooked

[vivid maple]

thanks mods for getting rid of kendo

[subtle violet]

Let me reply for you

[frozen nimbus]

Doesnt matter who you support, hate is hate and we wont tolerate it

[brisk grove]

bingo!!!

[white mica]

ill be honest im the kind of petty person who would comment under his video with links to pictures of our DM conversation showing he had no solutions either and asking if that makes him the same as me

[wet storm]

If you remove the pronoum it rhymes

[nocturne oasis]

ah
-10 months ago Thor reacted to the Stop killing games movement and poked on the flaws in the wording producing 2 vids
-people at the time supporting the initiative got angry for about a week then silence till now when the initiative only has less than a month to get their needed signatures
-Ross recently created a video taking Thor out of context from his videos 10mos ago.
-Now the shit pot is stirred again and here we are.

[minor nymph]

Agreed.

[hardy ingot]

Right, now SOG's argument was that people reverse engineered some games and in total it shows like 200 players using that maybe, fun

[charred wolf]

Do things need to be this heated?

[wet storm]

"hate is hate and we wont tolerate"

[vivid maple]

its why i try to remain as neutral as i can

[still jungle]

I think that it should at least be better communicated to the consumer that service will one day be sunset from a live service/online only premium title, that's all I got.

[brisk grove]

gotcha. seems like silly drama to me. silly to be a discussion topic at this point. heaven forbid people have different opinions lol

[mellow goblet]

It truly is a shame that this has gone the way it has

[subtle violet]

This fella knows

[muted robin]

that being said i understand how easy it is to want to lash out when you or some person/community/etc you care about is getting dogpiled. have been going thru that for the past several years

[thick ledge]

god forbid people also remember that when thor made that video he had been popular for like

[jolly sky]

I think almost everyone can agree on that, much like how Steam made it more obvious that you are buying a license to a game, not the actual game itself

[mellow goblet]

I keep seeing people still posting about the WoW thing

[left yoke]

i personally agree with the skg movement but people are allowed to disagree

[thick ledge]

a week

[lime vine]

This is still going? What is the point of saving videogames when it just causes internet drama...

[thick ledge]

this used to be a tiny community for years

[muted robin]

it sucks but you kind of just have to bear the burden of not stooping to that level

[nocturne forge]

Finally someone who get it. You know Louis Rossman? His works spans decades. This isnt months worth of a fight, issues like this arent done over a viral twitter post, but hard work

[gloomy forge]

I honestly think a massive non-profit that fights for "games rights" but also "advocates for gamers and consumers" talk with good old game journalists that still have credibility (and also people who work on the promotional part of gamedev, like good old geoff). It could be something bigger than people realize, but again it has to be financed by a lot of people.

[white mica]

https://tenor.com/baGaA.gif

[teal zodiac]

One thing crossing my mind is that it must be hard to know if someone really wants to talk and go over certain arguments or if they are just farming content for their own drama channel....Life on the internet looks so weird to navigate sometimes

[formal kestrel]

so he went "uhhh i dont know but youre wrong and its your fault"

[hardy ingot]

@indigo wadi okay the video was one giant nothingburger

[tribal shale]

they done turned the streamchat into the areopagus

[teal zodiac]

at least with cheese?

[gentle sierra]

Welp, all this drama is giving me a headache so I'm going to bed. Gnight!

[spare topaz]

ah so its just to keep the pot stirred then

[jolly sky]

This just reiterates to me that Social Media is a plague that, for all the good it has done, has only done far worse

[formal kestrel]

goodnight! sleep well!

[brisk grove]

preach

[still jungle]

Exactly. I do see the SKG thing as a starting point, I just think it had a very negative starter which is really unfortunate. The nuance not being tended to really just left me dumbstruck when I saw the situation lol.

[brazen drift]

Literally, Ross says in his video " I didn't want to do this, but I have nothing left at this point so here we go" which is "i can only benefit from the press, be it negative or positive"

[hardy ingot]

yeah, just thrown some shade on Thor, shown that people reverse engineered games, end of video

[nocturne forge]

I dont think this is fair at all. This isnt about skg, this is all about sucking up to the internets whim. And this isnt the first.

[mellow goblet]

"Views are views"

[brazen drift]

basically

[spare topaz]

but...reverse engineering games isnt the point of...wha? I actually have no idea how that pertains to the proposal at all

[earnest spire]

the only thing that can turn around is maybe charlie didnt watch thor's video and is still on what ross is saying

[supple cedar]

People often get caught up in sides and personalities instead of stepping back, doing their own research, and forming independent thoughts beyond the hive mind.

[edgy oar]

I love how he starts the video with stuff like "I don't normally like covering drama" but has made two videos on it.

[charred wolf]

I have spent about a full year knowing about Thor and the stuff he has done. Having seen him firsthand get dragged into controversy after controversy is genuinely scary to me. From what I know, this is not supposed to be a common occurrence either.

[gloomy forge]

@spare topaz so they can compile it again and run it natively on gentoo

[mossy timber]

I dunno, maybe I'm over Charlie. I actually watched Captain America Brave New World and it wasn't half as shit as he claimed. Maybe he just spins everything at this point and has bought into his own hype and has to live it to a larger degree.

[flat moat]

The main situation has been defused, the remnants will die out eventually

[slow veldt]

it hasn't tho?

[warm trench]

"yeah, just thrown some shade on Thor, shown that people reverse engineered games break laws, TOS, license agreements, end of video" You mean?

[hardy ingot]

he's using it as argument of why game preservation is great but I still don't see how that addresses any point Thor had a problem with 😄 especially since most of those games were singleplayer experiences

[brazen drift]

Never believe someone that says something is X, you have to form your own opinions on things.

[indigo wadi]

Ty for your service

[vivid coral]

This bickering is still going on... people get a life let people believe what they want to believe

[spare topaz]

ah right, so they're still playing on the emotive, rather than actually looking at how something like this would actually be implemented

grah

[mossy timber]

how long does SKG even have to hit its goal?

[brazen drift]

Because clearly everyone has their own opinions on things.

[indigo wadi]

A mknth

[vivid maple]

yeah i cant find myself finishing that video from mutahar

[indigo wadi]

End of july

[spare topaz]

2 weeks for the UK, about a month for the EU

[minor nymph]

My favorite part about this is the misinformation route.

Them: Your video has misinformation in it.
Me: Ok, what part was misinformation.
Them: Just agree that you misinformed people.

[muted robin]

oh dear this happens much more often than you think

[minor nymph]

[mellow goblet]

truly

[fluid dome]

Can't wait for the Roach King to stick his oar in with nothing meaningful to add

[exotic locust]

Current signiature count is at 516,749 out of the required one million. they have until July 31st.

[brazen drift]

Also, is there any reason that they couldn't just... try to do SKG again? Like is ther anything that would stop them from just trying to petition it again in like a few months or

[teal zodiac]

Hmmm on some cases there are consequences and thats one of the reasons why "letting it go" isnt always good

[flat moat]

it's no longer intense as it was a few hours ago after the recent post. Yeah, Mutahar and Charlie still made content about it and deployed it as soon as they could but generally it's beginning to simmer down

[wary drift]

Well, to be fair, a lot of people seem to have missed the information in your videos, so...

[nocturne forge]

Must include pregnant man emoji, tradition

[vivid coral]

At this point I think people are just fighting to fight

[mellow goblet]

The farmers are out in the field, its only a matter of time before he finds it.

[mossy timber]

so this will probably peter out in 2 weeks and die very short

[jolly sky]

Nope. Nothing whatsoever stopping them from rejigging it and trying again

[muted robin]

I've had IRL best friends pull this shame shit on me and i dumped them (well they dumped me to be precise) so i hella wouldn't tolerate it if it was some random guy

[formal kestrel]

sounds about right for the internet most of the time

[gloomy forge]

this is exactly what happens when you outsource thinking.

[muted robin]

honestly he'll have the least unhinged take out of everyone which is why i personally want him to

[wary drift]

Grok, is this true?

[charred wolf]

This has? Probably observation bias but the oldest instance of something like this happening that I can recall is the world of warcraft raid incident.

[frigid crown]

I have a question about EUI petitions, can they be amended as is or would they have retract the petition, rewrite it, and then recollect any signatures?

[hardy ingot]

yup, 100%, his entire reasoning was literally:

"Look, people spent thousands of hours reverse engineering this shit so 100 people can play them in total"

[exotic locust]

Ross has stated that this has taken out savings and impeded him financially. he cannot do this again for financial and mental cost.

[proper prism]

Exactly bro! Is it okay to disagree?! It's wild

[flat moat]

you misrepresented my burrito index, therefore you must suffer eternally /s

[fluid dome]

Be fr

[vivid coral]

I do agree, but fighting each other just makes people upset/angry and I see that as a net negative

[exotic locust]

while other people can attempt this again, he personally cannot

[brazen drift]

So then yeah. ther are Many laws that dont get passed immediately so why is it so life and death that this doesn't get the signatures right now.

[nocturne oasis]

people forget that devs are wired to think the worse case scenario hence why we're so eager to get everything specific

[gloomy forge]

oh you back in my days we only had magic 8ball and that shit was more accurate than grok is.

[slow veldt]

when drama farmers stick their videos out that just means in an hour or two people are gonna get those videos > process them 1/3rd of the way > sh*t on the ceiling all over again

[nocturne forge]

I checked some grok responses. They were surprisingly reasonable

[jolly sky]

Well, thats fair enough honestly, but from a legal standpoint there is nothing that can stop the movement itself from being brought forward again

[vivid maple]

bro we got another person making a video on thor for tomorrow

[exotic locust]

They gained 47k sigs yesterday. Interpret that how you will

[mellow goblet]

Its going to get worse chat

[vivid maple]

his name is ohnoitsalexx

[muted robin]

asmongold is the guy whose reaction to the hardcore wow drama was to defend thor despite getting thousands of ppl coming into chat to watch drama and accuse him of either sucking up or being a troll or being bad at the game and still stands by saying everyone sucked/thor did nothing meaningful wrong

[wary drift]

Back in MY day, the Internet was a big truck!

[flat moat]

the only difference this time would be Ross's patience. here's hoping there will be new and more proactive organisers

[fluid dome]

Clip?

[muted robin]

at least asmongold actually forms his own opinion instead of jumping on bandwagons. his opinions can be shit but they're his own actual thoughts

[mossy timber]

I lost a friend because I thought games journalists were disingenuous, surprise the people that live off of driving clicks to websites tend to not be honest people

[gloomy forge]

For me, it was series of tubes

[subtle violet]

When does it not? lololol

[hardy ingot]

Just admit it, why did you misinform them? They'll now have to call you out, misinforming people about what you said!

[supple cedar]

Why does it matter if asmongold makes a video

[mossy timber]

I watched his take on the Molten Core Meltdown

[supple cedar]

All the info is out there go research

[flat moat]

at that point, everyone relevant will be asleep and the drama farmers can mald about it

[jolly sky]

Honestly, Asmon was one of the few reasonable takes on the whole debacle

[white mica]

i stand by my opinion that asmongold had the most reason to stand by thors side as a long term WoW player, unlike some of the others he played wow on a similar level, maybe not hardcore, but still

[muted robin]

my friend i don't just have a clip i have an hour long video
https://youtu.be/3jUZ6hduhjY?si=knrGVBEK0rZ4Wggv

[wary drift]

[Pretend I put a video of guy jumping into a pool here, I just don't want to clog the chat with offtopic embeds]

[still jungle]

But isn't everything computer

[supple cedar]

Think for yourselves

[nocturne forge]

I wonder what asmond gonna say, mr baldz has his moments but does research too. Its gonna be interesting

[strong ice]

Enough drama, off too binge the new season of The Bear

[brisk grove]

ITS OUT?!??!?!?!

[exotic locust]

tbh, I don't trust Asmon's opinion on a lot of things, but WOW is his bread and butter. Hes qualified to talk about it. I don't know if he has much experience with hardcore though

[still jungle]

Need to catch up ngl

[muted robin]

the TLDR of asmon's take on the hardcore wow drama was basically "pirate could've maybe done a few things to help the group but they were screwed by multiple bad dacisions and the things that killed the group weren't his doing"

[strong ice]

Ye came out 6 mins ago xD

[ocean agate]

Social Media; a social sandbox location where no one knows who is RPing and who's not, or where the lines are drawn since no one understands the rules

[spare topaz]

and everywhere is full loot pvp, especially the pve zones

[muted robin]

and then when the molten core thing happened he was like "everyone can talk shit about making the right play when they're spectating but the same people who shit on thor for running are the same ones who ran from a winnable situation"

[vast furnace]

also didnt the dude who spearheaded the pirate roaching drama lik,e a month later, roach out himself?

[strong ice]

great series

[teal zodiac]

Still you need to defend yourself when someone says you are misinforming people, or when they are putting words in your mouth, etc etc. Its all very boring and chaotic and requires soooo much patience, but sadly must be done

[vast furnace]

games bad™️

[zenith summit]

I have a similar opinion to Asmons recent take, hopefully he will have a video up in a few hours

[wary drift]

Read that in the Twilight Zone voice

[subtle violet]

First comment is a pretty good summary

[vivid maple]

hey at least roach king didnt blame thor for the wipe

[flat moat]

Yes, and to lesser screams across the internet

[mellow goblet]

Tis be sadly true, we live in the timeline where you cant ignore things anymore.

[muted robin]

yamato yeah. and his reaction to being criticized by asmongold (who debated him over the whole thing) was to insult him and make it personal saying he has no family

[flat moat]

Hope his dad gets better

[warm trench]

I read that in Vader's voice. Put a whole different perspective on it.

[jolly sky]

Thats about right yea. He said there were mistakes across the board from all people in that dungeon, which Thor also mentioned and also took accountability for himself (which is a part some people love to ignore)

[subtle violet]

Quick, send this to voice acting :D

[vast furnace]

this boils down to a: normal people not understanding a single thing about the backend of game development
b: professionals assuming the common man knows more about their field than they actually do, I think

[vivid maple]

ok i gotta get back to watching the orville

[white mica]

i read it in the voice of the narrator from stanley parable

[muted robin]

and also that it was a massive nothingburger where people were only blowing it up bc they hate thor for speaking authoritatively and being respected

so yeah i'm excited for asmon's take bc he's probably going to be the least stupid about it

[vivid coral]

But as Neil Degrass Tyson said " If you are not willing to change your veiw, I'm not going to try to change it"

[muted robin]

dare i even say intelligent

[charred wolf]

Nuance and reason don't sell, though; emotionally reeling people for things do.

[exotic locust]

Favorite episode is easily the 500 cigarettes episode. The cigs is just the B plot but the plot about the holodeck and falling in love was really really fricking good

[zenith summit]

the thing is, there are enough emulated server backends for mmos to show its possible even without support from the devs

[spare topaz]

"how dare you bring facts and reasoning against my unreasonable position"

[teal zodiac]

not only backend but also a marketing, media, tools, economy, politics, politicians, a myriad of things

[vast furnace]

cuz alot of what i see from people hating thors view is ignorance of servers and game development, and from thor its "what do you mean you dont understand my point, its right there! Look at it!" and its the Caro Cahn Advance chess theory line

[elder scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/500-cigarettes-the-orville-gif-7999465420984481267

[mossy timber]

there are still issues of rights and ownership with that

[nocturne forge]

Well um

[jolly sky]

The oversimplification of game development is something that truly rears its head in a lot of casual players

[vast furnace]

also to the people still citing TF2 for this, thats a game from nearly 20 years ago, that is still utilizing the technology from 20 years ago in which you COULD just let people have custom servers

thats HOW you played multiplayer back then

YOU hosted

[grand anvil]

I won’t lie, I just see this stuff periodically, and I use memes as a coping mechanism, and all I can think of right now is “I’m tired of this, grandpa!”

[elder scaffold]

Game dev is easy! You just write a few lines of code! /jk

[charred wolf]

I'm just gonna hunker down from here and pray whatever happens from here is for the best.

[mossy timber]

and corporate management, RIP HiFiRush dev team

[frozen sonnet]

[jolly sky]

Exactly, Matchmaking wasn't even a thing, or if it was it was rare

[frozen sonnet]

[vast furnace]

valve didnt host a single server back then

[zenith summit]

not if its properly legislated for, the rights just stay with the original owner. Its not like running your own multiplayer server suddenly means you are stealing ownership

[slow veldt]

the HiFiRush team got re-hired btw, tango is alive again

[teal zodiac]

Few lines of input on any AI. Boom!!! videogame!!!

[vast furnace]

YOU bought a server and made it run tf2 or you hosted it to your machine

you cant do that to idk

call of duty bo6

[warm trench]

How about 30 years in software development, enterprise and small business... And the common misunderstanding of how "simple" it is to code and make things...

[vast furnace]

its not made for that

[mossy timber]

Good for them, glad they landed on their feet

[vast furnace]

specially not for a console

[earnest mirage]

ever used one of those? i assume not. The moderation is bad. Massive performance issues and often no broker which means unsecured connections. Yaay.

[jagged coral]

👁️ 👄 👁️

[charred wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-yakuza-kiwami-majima-goro-majima-majima-everywhere-gif-18612476

[hoary pawn]

Yo

[vivid coral]

Well, I just threw up in my mouth less than 3 min into charlie's new video, I used to think that guy was funny

[wary drift]

@vast furnace You know what would be really fun?
If all the rootkit anti-cheat software stuck around, and the keys to them that the servers have got handed out when a game shut down.

[hoary pawn]

??? It wasn’t supposed to be a comedic video

[gloomy forge]

Not just that, but the tools provided by the NEW voluntary developers who will work on the backend need new ownership rights unless its all GPL. Which it will requires a whole economy of systems in place in order to make stuff affordable to run and change. Its not so easy than people realize.

[slow veldt]

yeah I dipped fast myself, absolute gross behavior but not surprising

[zenith summit]

I did with ragnarok online, the leaked "official" aegis server needed 3 computers to run, the emulated servers barely needed any hardware and ran a lot better

[indigo wadi]

Yeah this reinforces my decision of not watching him anymore

[mossy timber]

You need to legislate that and companies publishing the games need to feel it is of actual value of them to participate, because if they don't feel it's worth it to them it doesn't matter if it's legal they will simply not participate

[thick ledge]

i watched the first few minutes and was extremely put off by the insults being flung immediately

i wont be watching thier content again

[hoary pawn]

What insults?

[brazen drift]

forcing ALL developers into implimenting "old tf2 style server hosting" would be a problem, but limit that to BIG publishers like EA or Ubisoft, even playstation and microsoft, and a lot of the problems go away since its usually those guys killing games and not indies

[vivid coral]

I know, I followed him because he was funny, he's turned into gasoline for any drama fire

[thick ledge]

"piratesoftwares ego is like nails on a chalkboard" is pretty insulting

[zenith summit]

I don't think they do, otherwise if I ran a quake2 server for example i would be running into issues

[cloud sluice]

Thats one of the few things i agrred with him on lol

[hoary pawn]

This is the only “internet drama” he’s covered in the past year pretty much. He says so in his video

[indigo wadi]

What?

[zenith summit]

most multiplayer games used to run that way

[earnest spire]

people just thing pirate is wrong. end of story

[teal zodiac]

Time to transform into PirateHardware now, the dark side of Thor

[thick ledge]

if that were just it

thatd be fine

[jolly sky]

"Man points out the future issues of an industry changing Initiative with far reaching implications across an entire industry"

"He's wrong"

[thick ledge]

its fine to disagree

but disagreeing and then telling him to kill himself is not

[vast furnace]

oh id love that, id make so many cheating programs with those!

[brisk sparrow]

thors video about his criticisms existed for a long time before this and only now is it being used against him

[inland flame]

stop making stuff up.
also thor came into this whole situation with "This is dumb, you are dumb, this is an uneducated take, you are an used car saleman..."
bro.

[thick ledge]

weve always been ok with disagreeing

[hoary pawn]

Thank you

[thick ledge]

we arnt talking about the same thing

im talking about the moist critical video that just got posted

[vast furnace]

now i wont have to make cheating programs using cs go as a tester like everyone else!

[indigo wadi]

Lol no

[mossy timber]

you used a game that is completely outside the sphere of the example I'm pretty sure, it's more like why would ActiBlizz want you running your own CoD or OW server when they make no money from it?

[brazen drift]

Thor literally made a post where he said he was sorry about that, he came in hot.

[vivid coral]

Person drama maybe but not news drama or game drama

[flat moat]

Corsair hardware

[vivid coral]

HARD pass and I mean HARD pass

[brisk grove]

nononono, thats fueling a fire

[hoary pawn]

Why are you posting private DM’s? Does t that seem a little immature?

[exotic locust]

posting twitter dms is against twitter TOS. Be careful

[zenith summit]

I don't think it should be the responsibility of the developers, they should just provide documentation and the player base should do the work if they really want to play the game, the developers would just need to patch the client so its not fixed to a specific server ip

[cloud sluice]

Lmfao christ

[mellow goblet]

the forbidden texts.. the X dms!

[brisk grove]

i agree with this. this might be able to be handled in a different way without stiring the pot

[thick ledge]

thor you should go take a break if you can

[hoary pawn]

Yikes, Thor…. Just take a break off social man

[indigo wadi]

I see the Chat is filled with anti-thors

[earnest spire]

thor your having a emotional response stop

[vivid coral]

Wait what?

[brisk grove]

all of it is lol

[mellow goblet]

Abit late, its gone now

[vast furnace]

so do yall want too see private messages which give further context to things or do you want to harass and belittle someone for giving out more information on a heated topic

[zenith summit]

its for after the games are made unavailable, they shouldnt need to assist with any of this while they are still making money from the games

[brisk grove]

https://tenor.com/view/coffee-cisler-pissedoff-traderjill-ladyjustice-gif-17977892488962581990

[teal zodiac]

Lokis

[mellow goblet]

[flat moat]

Thor, please rest for now. It'll be better to come onto it fresh

[vivid coral]

No I swa the post, the against TOS was my confusion

[hoary pawn]

Why delete then?

[indigo wadi]

True, it's hela

[mellow goblet]

Ah

[grand anvil]

Ok, I won’t lie, I feel like this has turned into a battle of the high ground… I think we should take a breath…

[brisk grove]

idea! we should all take a break for a bit

[vivid coral]

Agreed

[indigo wadi]

But we're obi wan

[cloud sluice]

lol

[brisk sparrow]

oh it has been for a while now

[formal kestrel]

i hate how so many arguments now seem to come back to "i dislike your attitude/tone and am going to ignore everything you say as a result"
happened with the WoW drama and is happening again now

[hoary pawn]

I never said it was against TOS. I strongly think that this tribe mentality of “everyone who doesn’t agree with me are all in on it together” is a TERRIBLE mindset and ultimately self-defeating.

[formal kestrel]

[indigo wadi]

Is it gonna be another shite the ceiling evening?

[cloud sluice]

Whats with the emotion lmao

[supple cedar]

[grand anvil]

Yeah, and it’s been really tiring to watch tbh… I just wish people could get along…

[vivid coral]

Is there anyway to timeout everyone for like 1-2 days?

[mossy timber]

And this will be how it goes "Why should I let you make a CoD 2024 server? I want you playing CoD 2030" companies will not engage, if they can they will outright lobby against it. I do think we should preserve games, but in some cases it's not going to be a realistic thing and companies don't have an true incentive to engage with it.

[woeful cloud]

Sorry I'm a little confused about the Charlie and Thor situation, I'm a moderate fan of both and I'm not 100% into what's happened recently but I don't understand where the messages have mixed and been scrambled?

[minor nymph]

I'm just banning shit stirrers at this point.

[indigo wadi]

He's against that

[brisk grove]

like this genuinely not a huge deal, nobody is dead, its just internet drama. i feel there is no need to be arguing with anyone

[vivid coral]

It was more as ajoke than serious

[thick ledge]

he posted a video personally insulted him, so id be upset too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTp4Am51i0

[mellow goblet]

it honestly really saddens me to see this go the way its going

[gloomy forge]

@zenith summit I think its true that a lot of older MMOs could run on a tiny budget, yeah. But we're not talking about very specific MMO services that existed since the early 2000s, things did change a lot.

I do feel it can be done and has been done before even on slightly more modern games. But doing a expandable, modern and safe framework is gonna be an undertaking.

We're also talking about the far future here. I don't really know where to start developing frameworks for stuff that is built to last forever. But technically its possible if developers of things like Emulators and also game developers sit together. Seems very complicated though. I feel it requires at least a decade once laws actually are close to passing.

[thick ledge]

first few minutes of that video

[indigo wadi]

No jokes, all srs

[wary drift]

Don't mean to be presumptuous, but frankly, I don't think there's anything with this situation you can do that would improve it if you engage at all.
If you have nothing scheduled for now and you have a chance, go hug your ferrets. You and the ferrets both deserve it. It's a better use of time thatn stressing about this garbage right now.

[minor nymph]

He thinks I misinformed people about SKG.
I think I did not.
We were having a conversation about it.
He decided to make a video response and send his community after me instead of continuing the conversation like an adult.

[teal zodiac]

"shit stirrers"
new term learned, noted

[thick ledge]

especially if its someone you admired

[stone trench]

everyone is hellbent on providing their point because apparently in 2025 admitting to shortcomings isn't seen as growth but weakness. Just another day on the Internet

[vivid coral]

Ok fun police

[wet storm]

Shit trebucheters

[blissful imp]

i would just lay low for now. i'd never say this, but in this case.... just lay low and be quiet for now...

[mossy timber]

I'm not seeing Twitter DM sharing against ToS, apparently it's only if there is private information involved in them

[teal zodiac]

"shit flingers"
new term learned

[wet storm]

The trebuchet is the superior weapon

[indigo wadi]

Was memes

[thick solar]

Ngl, as someone who was inspired to get into game dev by Thor, its sad to see all this drama form out of something so childish as this. I mean no personal offense btw.

[brisk sparrow]

IMO the internet is past a breaking point of being too big and interconnected

[charred wolf]

I'm hoping things get better from here.

[vivid coral]

My bad

[indigo wadi]

All good

[zenith summit]

I would agree, games that have new versions each year need discussing to decide how they should be dealt with, is the 2024 version abandoned once the 2025 version is released? I don't play any games like this so I am not sure how it would be dealt with

[gloomy forge]

finally someone gets it.

[woeful cloud]

From what I could pick up were you not just trying to point out the issues those games would face in the longevity of their life?

[indigo wadi]

Crepes are superior to waffles

[brisk grove]

PREACH

[fluid dome]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes moment

[thick ledge]

correct

[grand anvil]

Honestly, imo sharing DMs isn’t necessary against any laws (obviously case by case) but still in bad taste.

[minor nymph]

Correct.

[vivid coral]

Ok frencch person

[jagged coral]

Japanese pancakes are better than non Japanese pancakes

[vast furnace]

oh god those madden and fifa games legit just need to be patched every year instead of making new god damn games for $60 annually

[wet storm]

haha craps

[indigo wadi]

I'm canadoan, non-quebec

[vast furnace]

all it is is a roster update

stg

[subtle violet]

... poutine?

[teal zodiac]

out of curiosity was it pinpointed exactly where and which part of anything you said was misinformation?

[fluid dome]

French lite

[balmy bone]

I'm a poutine Canadian and proud of it!

[vivid coral]

I almost choked on my food I'm eating damn you

[indigo wadi]

Oui

[teal zodiac]

voluntarily or not

[wet storm]

Them's is fighting words

[indigo wadi]

Haha

[woeful cloud]

I'm not massive into drama at all but I also don't fully see how this got so out of hand?

[wet storm]

What did you just call my mother

[mossy timber]

And that's the major issue, this is a complex issue and there are different games that require different support. SKG wants to be a blanket situation and hopes "someone will fix it down the line" which is the worst way about going setting any legal policy, law, or legal precident.

[formal kestrel]

i dont make games or anything, but i feel like its kinda impossible to plan for end of service when youre at the start of developing and making a game, surely that just makes you feel like youre planning to fail while youre making it?

[mellow goblet]

"Let gvmt figure it out" is not a good idea, historically.

[balmy bone]

A beautiful and expensive woman.

[thick ledge]

theres a contingent of people waiting in the wings to blow tf up any minor error or beef thor has ever had because they hate him

[subtle violet]

Shoe body do wop?

[zenith summit]

I dont think they want to be a blanket situation, that wouldnt work with how different single player and live access games are

[thick ledge]

and theyre good at it

[charred wolf]

I think the problem might have stemmed from Thor's hostility towards Ross back then, optics more often than not overtake the subject matter.

[fluid dome]

It's like writing the ending to a book and not even knowing how tf to start it

[jagged coral]

The British Empires signature move ... lets just leave now and let them figure it out

[brisk sparrow]

they were waiting silently until WOW happened, and now every month its a new thing

[thick ledge]

people harassed him for weeks to cover it and he was increasingly frustrated with it all

[subtle violet]

Famous last words

[brittle jacinth]

multiple people with high viewer count plus main skg influencor got something up in the light

[minor nymph]

The opening section of my first SKG video.
Except the rest of the video is me talking about... the rest.
So it makes no sense.

[brisk sparrow]

its just exhausting

[river cargo]

can't believe muta, josh strife hayes and charlie brought out the big guns on this issue...there's so many wars in the world they could focus on but no, let's beat up the animal welfare and game dev advocate

[mossy timber]

The problem is Ross set it up as a blanket situation, that's why Thor had an issue with it in the first place.

[thick ledge]

at least josh was civil

on twitter atleast

[vivid coral]

@minor nymph off topic but are you gonna do any get togethers like you did with Bao and mushroom pick?

[thick ledge]

spent a fair bit of time defending thor

[fluid dome]

The Empire cosplayed as magpies to shiny things when we discovered spices and we blinked and owned about 1/3 of the Earth

[subtle violet]

I mean, you make a good point lol

[charred wolf]

Yeah, that's fair. I'm honestly afraid it's gotten beyond the point where most people can see this eye to eye, though.

[weak spindle]

Josh is like the only one being civil in this

That I've seen at keast

[river cargo]

dude called thor's arguments trash lol, so much for civility

[exotic locust]

I tried to find a source in twitters TOS for leaking DMs but can't. I doublechecked because I swear I saw Elon Musk and Asmon get into an arguement and musk leaked dms which people said was against TOS including community notes. Elon deleted the offending tweet and I cannot find that note or a screenshot of that note.

I am unable to find a source now that I look twice and apologize for the confusion.

[wary drift]

You know what else they could focus on?
What Charlie who claims to be passionate about this topic could have focused on?
Publicising SKG for the past 10 months.

[thick ledge]

thats different then the other stuff happening

[zenith summit]

that depends on individual interpretation of it, I did not see it that way

[mellow goblet]

Thats my only complaint about STG (I think the idea itself could be worthwhile), yes while the inititave is meant to start the conversation -- Letting it be entirely up to gmvt without much involvement via working directly with a lawmaker (is what I'd imagine) is not a great plan. And could easily backfire, ending with something that may have not been intended at the start.

[ocean agate]

we weather the storm with you, not behind you but beside you. we stand strong together

[thick ledge]

yeah why did charlie if he cares so much, say literally nothing about it for 10 months

[gloomy forge]

I mean the law making is gonna be less than substanceable to say the least. If there is no backport/backwards compatibility wrapper inside your OS, to the most extreme you would be held 100% accountable in providing a sort of infinite support for your game.

I wouldn't worry about it. All of this is gonna end up to be the work of like 20 skilled programmers who make backwards compatible wrappers for all the games on windows. Think Proton for Linux.

[river cargo]

i don't blame charlie for not publicising SKG tbf he is a busy person, what I don't get is why are they attacking thor?

[cloud sluice]

Alot of this is 100% people who hate thor and are rabid lol but those people should never be given the time of day, there are real arguments on the other side but there is always insane people in the way of real convos

[muted robin]

well you see "no one is blaming thor for killing SKG"

[brisk sparrow]

also ross not responding to it for 10 months, until it has 1 month til the deadline

that aint cool

[mossy timber]

If it is set to be a legal policy the only interpretation that will matter is the legal interpretation

[slow veldt]

good on ya for trying to cite your sources and apologizing, just remember to check before yellin next time 💖

[nocturne oasis]

He posted this I think before having DMs with Thor

https://x.com/JoshStrifeHayes/status/1937923048902168924

Josh Strife Hayes (@JoshStrifeHayes)

Stop Killing Games: Gee this game sure is fun, I hope it remains functionally playable in the future, even if I have to do some workarounds or tech stuff, so we can replay it and not lose the art.

Others: What you are asking for is impossible and also unfair and bad and wrong.

X · Jun 25, 2025, 5:17 PM

[grand anvil]

From what I’ve personally seen from this, imo it’s a lot of people not seeing rights and wrongs, and both sides having their own issues, with some seen and some not seen and different people are upset about different things, and now it’s just a jumbled mess. (I don’t know everything, so I acknowledge that’s probably over-simplifying)

[woeful cloud]

Well yeah I've noticed that will pretty much any squabble Thor seems to have

[brisk grove]

its def meant to get peoples' eyes on his project

[hoary pawn]

Why not just make a follow up video apologizing for the “making all multiplayer games single player” comments and clarifying your critiques that are still relevant?

[thick ledge]

thats mildly hostile but they talked it out like adults

[vivid coral]

I said that yesterday and peoples arguement was that SKG (Ross) didnt want to cause drama

[exotic locust]

it was a panic response admittedly

[thick ledge]

and then he spent some time defending thor

[brisk sparrow]

then he shouldve responded sooner

[thick ledge]

and saying his perspective has value

[fluid dome]

Can we kill Twitter please? Is that an option?

[brisk grove]

protect ur peace chief ❤️

[shadow dawn]

Why would he?

[frigid crown]

I'm sorry do you want Ross to drama farm it or no?

[thick ledge]

he would have never responded and respected thors wishes to drop it if that were the case

[muted robin]

This is the kind of logic that gets ppl supporting COPPA and other shit bc "it's to save the kids! you just want to save kids right everyone cares about kids! i can't believe you think this law is shady and unethical and won't help. you clearly hate children"

[zenith summit]

this document is only used to present the issue though, its not used to write the legal policy, actual lawyers work on that

[mossy timber]

We should all go back to MySpace

[ocean agate]

i hear we just need 1 million signatures....

[minor nymph]

Because that comment was not the basis of any of the videos.
Nowhere was that ever the focus but Ross tried to act like it was.

[jolly sky]

Collaboration is absent on Social Media. Social Media should honestly just be removed from the internet

[mossy timber]

"someone will fix it later"

[jolly sky]

Lets go back to forums

[wary drift]

I mean, by itself, I wouldn't say it's an issue he didn't talk about it.
But to use none of his platform to support SKG, and then act like there is nothing that could have been done because Thor ruined everything is just absurdly disingenious.

[regal lily]

@minor nymph

[brisk sparrow]

every existing forum board that ive found (outside of the mess that is steam) has been somewhat chill

[vivid coral]

To 4chan!

[warped venture]

this is the dream I miss forums

[brisk sparrow]

and they are few and far between

[fluid dome]

It must be cool being a ferret cuz all you gotta worry about is getting fed and playing with your siblings

[muted robin]

also for months now all of the top comments on thor's SKG videos have been negative so to act like thor's coverage singlehandedly destroyed all discussion and/or turned into a hivemind of people blindly agreeing with him is so factually incorrect it's painful

[brisk sparrow]

imma say it again: the internet is too interconnected for its own good

[jagged coral]

panic!("AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA")

[hoary pawn]

You could talk about that inside of a new video. All people want is for you to apologize for comments that did not have sufficient evidence to back them up. This seems like such an easy response, no?

[formal kestrel]

just the same cherry picking as happens with everything, it sucks

[jagged coral]

;

[molten hemlock]

i hope youre holding up okay man

[slow veldt]

they were so much chiller.. and you had time to think and respond to things...

[muted robin]

he said his piece, many hundreds of people disagreed with him, all of those hundreds of people had the chance to do their own pomotion and didn't but blame thor bc of their own laziness and lack of arguing skills

[fluid dome]

The Internet is an scp and containment was breached a long time ago

[brisk grove]

sorry to ask but what is the response to this going forward? like responding the way charlie did in turn would not be amazing, but like, is ignoring the critisim the best idea?

[thick ledge]

this may be enough for you, but the community has learned from experience its just kicking the beehive all over again, some people will just keep moving the goal posts and new people will get angry

[stone trench]

man you gotta up your bomb defusal game.

"i stand by my arguments against SKG but after some introspection I could've done a more thorough job to properly explain its content and potential issues in my initial coverage"

or something like that and people would immediately shrug it off and move on

[mossy timber]

man I used to be in a bunch of forums for RP groups... oh but that drama, that cruel cruel drama...

[muted robin]

why bother issuing clarifications that people will just disingenously misinterpret anyways honestly

[edgy oar]

See you think it is. But the moment he does this, the goalpost moves.

[thick ledge]

they would NOT shrug it off

[warped venture]

100%. its very hard to have well meaning discussions on twitter/discord like this

[thick ledge]

theyd say hes doubling down and he has an ego ect ect

[brisk sparrow]

inb4 they turn on him for changing his position

[supple cedar]

This is the only discord I see all this shit being talked about in. And half of it is bootlicking or hive mind shit from both sides. Shout-out to the actual independent thinkers in here able to see it from outside the YouTube drama sphere and coming to their own educated conclusions on the matter and not just regurgitating YouTubers thoughts and ideas as their own. I would 100% just ignore all this nonsense in his shoes.

[jolly sky]

Word limits, countdown timers between posts, there was a lot of things that let people cool off and more importantly think between posts

[brisk sparrow]

(even though thats not what that message said)

[hoary pawn]

It seems like the internet’s main problem is that Thor doesn’t take accountability and apologize. Avoiding addressing and apologizing past comments is the worst thing he can do.

[woeful cloud]

Well yeah, twitter is an active war 24/7

[slow veldt]

also hope yall are doing good i know today has been a fire fest but

[minor nymph]

I am happy with the messaging I put out.
Just because you are not happy doesn't mean I have to apologise.

[thick ledge]

he has done that, the goalposts just get moved

[muted robin]

*they claim that he doesn't take accountability or apologize

[jolly sky]

People ignore the times where he does take accountability too

Which has been on multiple occasions

[mellow goblet]

almost at the end of initiative
not enough signatures
havent talked about it since it began
create drama to get people talking about it again in a last ditch hope to get it to pass
internet BS ensues
content farming begins
getting more signatures

looks like the master plan worked, aside from yaknow the bad stuff.

[jolly sky]

Yet, people literally just ignore it

[grand anvil]

I also feel like people react way too much off impulse and don’t take time to formulate an educated response. I’ve personally had to drill that into my own brain the past couple years and it’s helped me soooo much. 10/10 would recommend. (I know a lot of people are stubborn tho)

[warped venture]

busy day but we're managing

[thick ledge]

he literally said "im sorry for getting emotional and lashing out at ross' character, that wasnt cool" and people just got angrier

[thick solar]

Imo, my biggest issue with SKG is that its an EU centric initiative that was created by someone that is (or at least appears to be) from the United States that was amplified to what seems to be a mainly US audience. While it obviously went international, im not 100% sure all the signatures are from EU Citizens, meaning when the politicians start looking at it, it would likely be picked apart on that basis. That said, i could also be talking out my arse as im not a legal expert.

[brisk sparrow]

i dont even want to know what mod logs capture from us seeing

[brazen drift]

I mean yaeh, people want thor to "apologize for misinterpreting it" but the second he actually does back down people are goig to call him spineless and to sign it like 40 times or whatever even though im sure 90% of the people arguing about this can't even actually sign the dang thing

[subtle violet]

If this could stop happening, that'd be great 👍

[reef geyser]

Also people need to understand the difference between someone "taking accountability" for something vs. "apologizing in the way I see fit to sate my desire that the person in question be seen as prostrating themselves on the issue as an admission of defeat."

[mossy timber]

I wish I could go back in time and convince Thor not to comment on this thing, but honestly some other person would be caught up in the drama

[brazen drift]

becaues its still EU only

[nocturne oasis]

if you've noticed he has apologised in his x post about being a dick to Ross but none have even mentioned that "good on you for apologizing about Ross" it's still generally attacking him

[frigid crown]

I mean he runs monthly updates on it on his main channel and has been reaching out to try and spread it but ok

[mellow goblet]

Oh he has?

[fluid dome]

This entire situation reads to me as a rocket scientist trying to explain why we physically cannot and shouldn't fly into the sun but the public is demanding we do it anyway.

[mellow goblet]

I was unaware

[vivid coral]

You know people still have the primal erge to throw piles of shit

[gloomy forge]

Why would they even need to bash on Thor, just complete the initiative already. now everyones eyes is on it put in your big boy boots and get that million votes. If its not at 650k tommorow I'm gonna be VERYMAD

No idea why people waste their energy on this

[stone trench]

fair game, but this level of escalation could've been avoided imo

[hoary pawn]

Charlie literally made that a big point in his video… what are you talking about?

[grand anvil]

But then again, I’m also autistic, and have had to teach myself to NOT react emotionally as much as possible, so it’s more of a necessity to me, so I can understand some’s reluctance.

[zenith summit]

only EU citizens can vote on the EU part

[frigid crown]

Yes this is the just the first time Thor has been referenced in the 10 months since it first popped off

[thick ledge]

have you seen the new one where he describes thor as nails on a chalkboard?

all respect lost for that

[teal zodiac]

from the little ive seen i would say you are giving way too much credit to say this was somewhat planned. Its just very chaotic

[hoary pawn]

I just watched his new video and didn’t catch that comment? Is there a timestamp?

[thick ledge]

ill grab it

[tight bramble]

Don't dimmadisrespect doug dimmadome, owner of the dimmsdale dimmadome, or you get dimma-dealt wit!

[nocturne oasis]

I'm talking about the vitriol that is in the post.

[vivid coral]

Some people just like to watch the world burn

[brisk sparrow]

is it in the first or second one?

[mellow goblet]

this entire situation just makes me dimmadepressed

[hoary pawn]

lol I’m sorry Doug dimmadome

[trim scaffold]

I’m pretty new here so apologies if this is a dumb question but, is there a right (or at least) better way for the SKG movement to exist? If so, why not focus on that instead? Something along the lines of, “I think the idea of SKG is great, but for it to have a good and meaningful impact, this is what needs to happen”

[hoary pawn]

Based mutual servers, fellow nighthawk

[nocturne oasis]

you forgot the owner of the dimmsdale dimmadome

[thick solar]

Id need to look into that, but if so, then fair enough.

[thick ledge]

@damen 3:12 in the new video

[lime vine]

We are still on SKG looks like. God I wish to not wake up tommorow... We don't deserve videogames to be saved if the internet is reacting like this.

[fluid dome]

And people wonder why I don't wanna get into game dev lmao

[thick ledge]

@hoary pawn i forgot to press tab, 3:12 in the new one

incredibly rude thing to say

[zenith summit]

it probably needs some company to do something really evil that grabs more attention so more normal people get involved

[brazen drift]

I think the TLDR for this entire thing is that Thor gave his opinions on SKG (perhaps a little too harshly) and everyone is telling hes misinterpreted it and he needs to apologize for it while not explaining clearly enough what it was he read incorrectly. Or at least explaining it in a satisfactory way.

[mossy timber]

Is SKG about making Thor accountable for something or ethics in games preservation?

[brisk sparrow]

more like 3:30 for the actual line, but 3:12 is the full thing

[exotic locust]

The temperature needs to come down for any message like this to be effective. Too much hate. The MoistCritical video is fresh

[charred wolf]

Okay, I find that statement really funny.

[hoary pawn]

Bro… he says “THE SMUGNESS is nails on a chalkboard.”

[regal lily]

@minor nymph You can't please everyone and even if you did, it still wouldn't be good enough. Let them eat sand; you said your peace.

[frozen nimbus]

Haven't been able to watch Charlie's video yet

Gonna do that in a bit

[white mica]

im just sitting at my desk doing 3d design for a new screen door handle for my to 3d print watching this drama go by

for anyone who cares

[jolly sky]

Yep, no one wants to actually expand on what exactly was "misinterpreted", and yet the Initiative is so poorly worded and vague that it literally easy to do that.

Even supporters of SKG come up with different reasons as to what it actually wants

[grand anvil]

THIS! Honestly, imo a lot of it has to do with tones used, because honestly, I can understand thoughts of animosity due to people believing someone is “rude” because of how they worded something or the tone they said it in.

[thick ledge]

hes referring to thor

[wary drift]

Honestly, the most hilarious thing that could possibly happen, is:

1. It passes, the initiative goes before the European Commission.
2. The European Commission summons Ross' gang and hears the motion.
3. They recess to get some expert opinions.
4. At the next meeting the Commission just repeats the same issues Thor brought up that their internal expert also presented, and throws the whole thing out because while they have to listen to the intiative, they are not comfortable actually stabbing the multi-billion dollar industry.

[mossy timber]

It's never worth it to try to please everyone, you'll be a doormat and someone will always ask more of you

[thick ledge]

its insulting

[brisk grove]

sand is tasty, but im more of a dirt guy. the gummy worms in it are tasty

[summer marsh]

Honestly haven't been able to do any research about the whole movement

[thick ledge]

and i wont be consuming his content again

[brazen drift]

its rough. it hurt to listen to since it felt like a highschooler talking about someone they dont like

[shadow dawn]

You have the right idea

[fluid dome]

He was able to tell tone through text? And incredible achievement in human understanding

[tight bramble]

Nah it's rough, coarse, irritating, and gets everywhere

[teal zodiac]

Question about Steam, what do you actually need to review a game? From what i know you need to have the game to review it right?

[earnest spire]

they don't care what thor has to deal with the hate, death threats. they just want one thing your one thing that is you ruined/misundertood the movement

[thick ledge]

hes referring to a stream clip of the 50000th time someone has asked about skg

[frozen nimbus]

I dont care how intense the debates are, its upsetting seeing the hate towards unrelated things. People need to be civilized

[charred wolf]

It's not an easy watch, I genuinely like Charlie and I'm really just gonna sit this one for a bit and hope things get resolved in a day or two.

[frigid crown]

I'm just here as a fan of both Thor and Ross and have been trying to correct misinfo on Ross as I've seen him being targeted in response. The hate raid is insane and absolutely shouldn't be happening but I also don't think it's helpful for it to be turned back on the guy.

[jolly sky]

Here's a Metaphor for it;

It's like if I wanted to put forward an initiative for Free Water for All, coming from a tap or faucet in every mile of a country. I make the Initiative look really nice and labelled all the good things that would happen if it went through. Good idea right?

But I didn't think about about the infrastructure changes.

The plumbing of the water,
the Laws about what piping is needed,
the storing of the water,
the land that would needed to be dug up for the plumbing to go into
the design of the faucets etc.

And then someone pointed out all these future issues, and I got extremely mad and blamed them for trying to "kill the movement".

This is something akin to what the SKG Initiative looked like, and how it all went down.

[hoary pawn]

What? He was talking about a stream clip of Thor insulting Ross??? Bro did you even watch the video?

[brisk sparrow]

i would laugh if it did, but its unlikely to happen at this point

[trim scaffold]

I honestly believe if Thor made a video just saying that he wasn’t against the idea of SKG, just how it was being executed, and state how it could be done and a much more impactful manner, that would maybe help. But yea, heat levels are pretty high currently so, yea…

[wary drift]

You have to have it in your library and I believe had to have launched it at least once.

[frozen nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/pocket-sand-solide-la-fuite-gif-13458900070082471958

[lime vine]

Im surprised people aren't bored of this now. Like I actually don't want to wake up. Strike me down with lightning or something. Just end me.

[jolly sky]

@summer marsh This is the metaphor

[teal zodiac]

So all those negative reviews actually had to buy the game, is that right? Not sure what happens to your review if you ask for a refund before 2hrs of gameplay

[frozen nimbus]

Wrong channel?

[muted robin]

honestly as an autistic person the fact that people get this heated over tone and word choice is so funny. bro i don't care i just want to talk about the facts of the situation

[vivid coral]

I noticed that when rewatching your original video and was tempted to use way back machine to see when it changed

[minor nymph]

Aside from that the video I made is reviewing the initiative website as it was.
It's changed a shitload since then so I was talking about single player games specifically because The Crew was on their front page.
Imagine waiting 10 months to refute that and changing your entire website before refuting it.

At the time people were saying that The Crew could be played solo if the devs just did the work.
That's WHY we had that conversation on stream.

[wary drift]

Either bought it, or got a free key for it from some give away etc

[brisk sparrow]

this is why im upset
Ross waited 10 months to refute thor

so much about it has changed in 10 months

[fluid dome]

Why did he wait 10 months?

[minor nymph]

No fucking clue.

[brisk sparrow]

because its about to reach a deadline

[teal zodiac]

The world is very simple when you dont take your time to know how things work

[thick ledge]

engagement

[brisk sparrow]

and doesnt have enough signatures

[grand anvil]

I’m unfortunately a bit numb to outside stuff, so I was able to get through it. IMO, it started pretty harsh, but I was relieved when Charlie commended Thor for his response about how he talked about Ross (or something like that, I don’t remember the exact words, so pardon me if I got it mixed up)

[frigid crown]

Didn't want to turn the movement into a drama farm

[thick ledge]

thor got in trouble for WoW so it was ripe to use against him to get attention

[vivid coral]

But did anyways

[thick ledge]

i genuinely think it was malicious at this point

[summer marsh]

Appreciate it. :)

[mellow goblet]

evidently it did anyway

[golden gate]

Get help

[minor nymph]

Ahh yes, the ol' turn the movement into a drama farm at the last second anyway.

[fluid dome]

Man often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it.

[hoary pawn]

Ross did not wait 10 months tho? He responded almost immediately. It’s just Charlie that waited 10 months to make a video on this since the movement is at the end of its life.

[thick ledge]

that guy got grounded for that stuff

[stone trench]

Apparently ross didn't want to farm YouTube drama engagement but now that time is running out i guess he figured it's worth a shot

[exotic locust]

the person you replied to already has been muted by Thor

[golden gate]

Thank god

[brazen drift]

Oh yeah, he only called him a narciccist for not admitting his mistakes, and Then said he was happy he admitted he was wrong

[brisk grove]

oh trust me, he got it lol

[ornate rose]

what do you think about having publishers and studios disclose that you are purchasing a license to rent the game rather than actually owning the game

[mellow goblet]

the master plan is real i swear

[muted robin]

he covered it in his original video

[minor nymph]

Ross made a callout video calling me a liar and saying I misled everyone about the movement.
Due to the WoW controversy the internet picked it up because it's a popular topic to shit on me.

I haven't spoken about SKG SINCE those videos 10 months ago.
Be honest about timelines.

[brisk sparrow]

this says otherwise

thats ross's channel

[faint rapids]

It's a last minute hail Mary at your expense

[thick ledge]

he saw an opportunity to weaponize thors newly modified reputation in certain circles

[grand anvil]

Yeah… honestly it was still rough… I just wish this hadn’t got to this point…

[muted robin]

also sorry mods two of my messages have been auto moderated bc i'm a potty mouth 🙏

[brazen drift]

Which is WILD to use WoW drama as ammo for a conversation about Actual Law

[charred wolf]

Didn't he say he didn't want it to be about that, but now that the thing is on its last legs he might as well now?

[brazen drift]

Yeah.

[thick ledge]

@charred wolf thats disgusting if its true

[exotic locust]

You should start making jerky with all the dead horses people are bringing up.

[thick ledge]

cool ethics guy

[minor nymph]

In the video, yes.

[thick ledge]

anything to get what you want

[edgy oar]

I still love all the Thor haters clinging on the fact Thor used to work for Blizzard like that's a gotcha.

[thick solar]

I believe Cr1t1cal mentioned something about him not wanting to make the initiative about the drama, but that doesnt make sense given it would only have benefited the initiative to have adressed it sooner rather than waiting until it was about to fail.

[brisk grove]

PREACH

[brazen drift]

He Literally says in the video JUST before he starts calling out Thor that he didnt Want to do this, but had nothing left to lose