streamchat

[patent flame]

B

[hardy ingot]

no, no, go triple AZ

AZAZAZ games ftw

[thick ledge]

why dont you read my thing more charitably Madge

[indigo wadi]

I suppose triple K is too far?

[thorny cloud]

I was born in AZ. Hot state.

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/blazing-saddles-morons-smile-laugh-gif-15038643

[indigo wadi]

😂

[indigo wadi]

ahhh blazing saddles

[lunar moth]

Have fun! I'm playing Backpack Battles now, but to be fair - it ain't that I don't want to get into it, but just a case of I don't want to get into it in this discord.
As that'd be delving deep into politics (which isn't appropriate here, except for SKG simply because of how much of a mess it is and how it affects this community).

[hardy ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UaRNl0LV5o

[indigo wadi]

roflmao

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/wednesday-happy-hump-day-kermit-gif-24728176

[blissful imp]

Act man update...

he reposted the original tweet after doing another Classic WoW reference.

[thorny cloud]

It's actually Thursday in the land down under

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-not-one-for-i-told-you-so-but-mike-mclusky-mayor-of-kingstown-called-it-jeremy-renner-gif-5444831237578781686

[minor nymph]

Yeah he's just a dick tbh

[mossy timber]

To be fair, in this situation I think the one out of mana is Ross, hence why he's trying to use rage

[indigo wadi]

oh come on actman, jfc

[hardy ingot]

Act Ma'am mode activated

[teal zodiac]

am i being too naive if i think some people are just being sarcastic? like "You are not reading the thing correctly, lol"

[indigo wadi]

time to see if im still subbed to him

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/afternoon-hi-pub-afternoon-everybody-gif-18818735

[indigo wadi]

Yes

oh good, i unsubbed awhile ago

[hardy ingot]

fine of him to join discussion.. just with actual arguments or points...

[edgy oar]

The Goblin Lord himself. Please sir, may I have some bread?

[thick ledge]

people respect this person

[hardy ingot]

Not to be a drama farming dick..

[thick ledge]

halarious

[blissful imp]

Act man is cool when he's going after those Anti Woke grifters.

Which they attack him and call him "The Act Maam"

[indigo wadi]

Used to.

[thick ledge]

he literally is just farming all forms of engagement

it doesnt matter from who

[indigo wadi]

Playing the game as it were

[placid plover]

Nice! What's the game about? I've never actually heard of it

[thick ledge]

ive got no respect for it

[hardy ingot]

I find it funny Act Man calls out someone after his situation with Az, and I don't even like Az

[indigo wadi]

which i understand, but no reaon for some posts

[indigo wadi]

Az?

[white mica]

az?

[white mica]

oh lol

[lunar moth]

Auto battler combined with Tetris and a class and specialization system.
It is really quite fun!

[indigo wadi]

is that the black dude that beat his wife?

[hardy ingot]

Heelvsbabyface

[indigo wadi]

oh him

eff him too

[blissful imp]

the guy who crashed out in a youtube video over pronouns

[indigo wadi]

never seen someone be so unhinged over pronouns in video games

[hardy ingot]

That drama was idiotic but nonetheless

[indigo wadi]

That it was

[placid plover]

Dope. have fun

[white mica]

i honestly never understood the issues with stuff like that in a video game, like its a fictional world for all you know males are female and females are male

[frozen nimbus]

Any new updates?

[indigo wadi]

Oh ive seen ads for backpack battler

[mossy timber]

I think I would only care about pronouns in a video game if it was bad faith localization

[hardy ingot]

Sure there you go

[thick ledge]

D:

[teal zodiac]

i expected more from the internet, better drama, better thumbnails

[indigo wadi]

It's just ppl trying to prove that their anti-woke or some such nonsense

[thick ledge]

OSHA VIOLATION

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[frozen nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/it-is-acceptable-gus-fring-acceptable-better-call-saul-acceptable-gif-25806361

[charred wolf]

I genuinely feel that my passion for writing has become more obsolete with each passing year.

[placid plover]

that reminds me of one meme i saw where it was a guy standing on a chair and the post being "nsfw" 😂

[thick ledge]

chat im gonna need you

[teal zodiac]

im disappointed with you internet, do better!

[thick ledge]

to lease an al gaib

[charred wolf]

Thor isn't even writing actual text walls, he's formatting them properly and dividing them respectively to the topic.

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/steve-buscemi-gif-20922935

[indigo wadi]

still too much for the internet

"you write coherently, YOU THA DEVIL"

[warped venture]

No politics/political figures pleae

[thick ledge]

reminder that politics are disallowed on the server including figures

yet

ye

[teal zodiac]

i mean, to be fair you need to write enough words for them to not be easily misinterpreted

[thick ledge]

it just prevents fights before they happen

wtf

get him chat

[indigo wadi]

This is how I picture the internet being in any nuanced discussion: https://youtu.be/ayWQGYHG2GQ

[charred wolf]

This, he's literally writing only as much as he needs to.

There is hardly any fluff.

[indigo wadi]

waffles are just inflated pancakes

[charred wolf]

For one to say it's too long physically pains me.

[mossy timber]

I think a month or two ago I saw something saying it's a "red flag" for someone to * checks notes * write at length to fully explain themselves so as not to be misunderstood

[frozen nimbus]

No

[jolly sky]

Lmao what

[thick ledge]

but if you explain yourself properly how will i intentionally misunderstand you

[frozen nimbus]

Reject clarity embrace cave man

[thorny cloud]

Waffles are fundamentally different than pancakes in terms of the culinary experience.

[indigo wadi]

there is literally no winning on the internet

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/trebek-bullhorn-alex-gif-15878841328682274772

[thorny cloud]

r/place would beg to differ

[indigo wadi]

When did Trebek break out a bullhorn?

[frozen nimbus]

Saying that its a red flag to just talk normally and explain yourself is so funny

[mossy timber]

exactly, if you make yourself clear then people can't purposefully misunderstand you and blame you for it

[thick ledge]

frankly, unacceptable

[indigo wadi]

They can and will

[frozen nimbus]

"Your vocabulary is too advanced for me!"

[indigo wadi]

to be fair, that sentence is too advanced for most

'YOU USE BIG WORDS, ME NO GET!!"

[mossy timber]

I had a friend that went through an opposite problem, his old job he got written up because he kept asking his boss to clarify things

[hardy ingot]

This is incorrect representation of internet

Internet would never admit it's a "me" issue

[jolly sky]

People who think explaining yourself is a red flag;

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/huzzah-adventure-jovel-haver-gif-19701828

[hardy ingot]

Neither would I for that matter but..

[indigo wadi]

where is this from?

[frozen nimbus]

It reminds me a while ago off an ex friend who would claim I escalated arguments by "sending more messages". This would be the only thing he would mention during arguments instead of acknowledging anything else like its the most important thing. (It should be obvious why we arnt friends anymore)

[hardy ingot]

internet, probably

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/zelda-cdi-great-link-faces-of-evil-gif-823445391281517841

[charred wolf]

People get upset at me for texting with punctuation.

[frozen nimbus]

Really got my upset

[white mica]

i always look at this and question if link is actually a guy

[mossy timber]

a Joel Haver video "playing an rpg for the first time"

[indigo wadi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY3y6zNTiLs

found it

[thick ledge]

oh hell yeah

[white mica]

i love this guys videos

[thick ledge]

this video is like me when i literally do anything online

[hardy ingot]

Oh I have a tendency of escalating arguments with my friend apparently by re-stating an important point that he struggles to disprove since it's based on facts

[thick ledge]

"how could you do that you monster"

[indigo wadi]

I believe it

[frozen nimbus]

I had a similar thing with the exact same ex friend

[tribal shale]

joel haver when joel haven'ther walks in

[frozen nimbus]

Would say Im putting words in his mouth while sending him screenshots of the exact messages he sent a minute earlier lol

[thorny cloud]

They're all unscripted in case you dont know lol

[thick ledge]

WRETCHED GHOUL

[frozen nimbus]

Yeah we dont talk anymore

[hardy ingot]

oh with me he just calls anything he cannot disprove either a strawman argument or "dumb" without explaining why

[white mica]

i was aware which is why i love the videos, you can tell he just goes with the flow of the video instead of following a script and animation

[hardy ingot]

and then throw a hissy fit and not talk for the rest of the day 😄

[thorny cloud]

Their outtakes are great lmao

[ocean agate]

i had a friend who would just straight up lie and flip sides just so he would always win

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/joel-haver-gif-20462789

[frozen nimbus]

[indigo wadi]

a true debater!

infact, a master, debater, you could say

[hardy ingot]

You're friends with Asmongold?

[thick ledge]

he was the greatest rat in the world

[thorny cloud]

I love the chill Galactic Emperor who let them hold

[hardy ingot]

wrong message linked..

[indigo wadi]

No. I choose to not be infected by the Chaos Plague God

Nurgle

[hardy ingot]

Ah yes

Nrugle

Not to be confused with Nurgle

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/dwarf-warcraft-chad-repost-if-dwarf-chad-gif-21569293

[indigo wadi]

LOL

[placid plover]

I know there is a WoW channel but I wanted to quickly ask if anybody here wanted to see my dragon that I made in game?

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/sup-girl-eyebrows-gif-25755293

[hardy ingot]

Does Alexstrasza know you made a dragon?

[indigo wadi]

Did she kinkshame your dragon?

[warped venture]

wut

[hardy ingot]

Did she produce your dragon? Or just publish?

[placid plover]

lmao huh

[white mica]

i found the most honest person on the internet

[hardy ingot]

I find that wink very dishonest in fact

[indigo wadi]

you mispelled polish

[placid plover]

Idk who that is tbh

[hardy ingot]

what does Poland have to do with anything?

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/alexstrasza-world-of-warcraft-dragonflight-gif-27122291

[indigo wadi]

wrong polish

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/alexztraza-wow-warcraft-gif-26638000

[hardy ingot]

Are there any other Polish?

[indigo wadi]

well, polish that makes things shine

[white mica]

to clean or wipe down and make shiny

[hardy ingot]

Sure didn't last I played with one

But I suppose we did wipe..

But we lost shiny on repairs instead

[white mica]

i dont think @hardy ingot gets the inuendo still

[placid plover]

I'll post it to the WoW chat just incase

[hardy ingot]

So it failed at polishing

[hardy ingot]

I don't think he does either

[warm trench]

Joel Havar - Playing an RPG for the first time - and his entire youtube channel pretty much awesome fire.

[subtle violet]

Yo sick you have a dragon?

Oh wait

Tagged the wrong feller oops

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/waggle-brows-flirty-flirty-eyes-jensen-ackles-gif-6211211

but yes, I do have a beardie

[white mica]

dean winchester

[subtle violet]

I love dragons, it's my thing (sorta) I don't really have many anymore

I dig dragons doe:o

[hardy ingot]

I love the excitement and then it just goes "Oh wait no it's just you"

[subtle violet]

I'm sorry lmao 🤣

It's not meant like that

I'm excited for all people

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/excuses-files-cabinet-gif-12019483

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/leslie-nielsen-good-luck-pressure-were-all-counting-on-you-gif-11218612

[indigo wadi]

I have an issue, I Cannot unmute this

[subtle violet]

Me when people

Much excite, very wow

[gloomy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/fell-gif-11242683397767497522

me when people

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/good-burger-some-of-these-gif-12933391

[hardy ingot]

What kind of cat are you? a dog one apparently..

[indigo wadi]

what is this ear garbage?

[subtle violet]

The all-seeing kind

[hardy ingot]

all I know is it's generally known as ultrakill nice argument 😄

[indigo wadi]

ah

[hardy ingot]

Right, that's today's efforts to practice some game dev miniprojects I had in mind dodged successfully to engage with chat 😄

If I engaged with chat half as much when I used to stream it might've been better suited 😄

[subtle violet]

I dodged school altogether (I'm failing my classes) :D

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/luna-crunchy-cat-crunchy-cat-crunchycat-gif-14946231399377627251

[subtle violet]

Samesies ✨

[lime vine]

https://x.com/TheActMan_YT/status/1937964109745799443 I love it when twitter thinks blocking people is a sign of weakness

The Act Man (@TheActMan_YT)

Im all out of mana, bro 😭

X · Jun 25, 2025, 8:00 PM

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/smol-owl-stare-hat-gif-26020813

[undone dragon]

Dawww

[fluid dome]

That must be why it's looking at u

[remote maple]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-boop-vulkan-snoot-boop-the-snoot-gif-19967530

[indigo wadi]

good ol Warhammer TTS

[subtle violet]

Cyan cat go brrt

[mossy timber]

and now I have taken 2 seconds to report his post for harassment

I considered responding but I don't want to give him engagement

[indigo wadi]

roflmao, apparently Liver King is having beef with Joe Rogan for some reason

[hardy ingot]

Poor Coalesence 😦

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-armstrong-metal-gear-rising-jetstream-sam-tenshi-gif-23235874

[fluid dome]

Act Man: Makes Fun of a User
gets blocked

Why would Pirate Software do this to me?

[subtle violet]

There are still good things in life

[fluid dome]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes

[hardy ingot]

Act Man has the unfortunate habit of doing one unfortunate thing. That is being a dick for no reason

He just can't help himself

[indigo wadi]

remember when he got departnered?

[hardy ingot]

for a moment I read that as deported

[white mica]

same

[indigo wadi]

LOL

[wary drift]

Severe and continuous lapse in judgement

[hardy ingot]

Guess he just decided he got a long streak and doesn't want to lose it

[white mica]

wrong "content" creator

but still

[indigo wadi]

act man, once hero, now villain?

[hardy ingot]

rarely hero, everyday twat more like

[mossy timber]

you live long enough to die the hero...

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-are-we-the-baddies-surprised-gif-19176339

[kindred sedge]

How I see the current happenings

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/some-men-just-want-to-watch-the-world-burn-batman-alfred-quotes-gif-14054558

[hardy ingot]

Act Man in my experience is about 50/50

[indigo wadi]

at least Jackscepticeye is still a good guy

and markiplier

[hardy ingot]

His videos about games are fairly decent, but his reactions are so goddamn stupid on average

Mark is great

[wary drift]

Every time he tells a zinger, he hears the Jet Set Radio combo sound effect, so he assumes he needs to continues.
In reality, it's the tinnitus.

This is a friendly reminder to take care of yourselves everyone, get checked up at the doctor when you get a chance.

[hardy ingot]

Never really watched Jack

[kindred sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/shh-quiet-castle-shut-up-no-talking-gif-20241415

dont jinx it

pls

that is the last thing we need

the pillars coming down

[indigo wadi]

if both jack and mark turn, im leaving the internet

[fluid dome]

Nah Jack's still good

He's beefing with Beast rn

[jolly sky]

Don't forget Jerma

[indigo wadi]

he's playing DS2 and I gotta watch that

[indigo wadi]

Everyone is tbh

[mossy timber]

Jacksfilms is still a good guy wanting to do good things, his last drama was Youtube trying to say it was his fault react channel gal doxxed him and brought a loaded weapon to his house

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/5150-markiplier-gif-19048583

[wary drift]

Who's playing Best Souls?

[fluid dome]

LINK

[indigo wadi]

Death STranding 2

[wary drift]

Oh

[fluid dome]

I legit thought it was Dark Souls 2

[mossy timber]

I miss "Your Grammar Sucks"

[indigo wadi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDlST1M33bU

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/my-disappointment-is-immeasurable-and-gif-20080022

[indigo wadi]

baited

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-rogue-one-krennic-this-c-lose-gif-10935154

[lime vine]

I dont think he reported me.

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-16223041024893520806

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/craig-ferguson-joke-joking-it-was-a-joke-gif-10439100

[indigo wadi]

in minecraft

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/farcry5-farcry-farcry6-gif-23340161

[teal zodiac]

from the little bit im seeing im already getting a certain vibe that happens sometimes on the lower end of the academic field.
Someone comes with a """brilliant idea""", something likes Let's End World Poverty 🙂
Poorly made arguments, non existent debate, zero plans or consequences, no data whatsoever, maaaybe one example, at most
Many dont even want to enter the review bcs they know its going nowhere
Others tend to see whats not even there, see the "beauty of the message" or something ethereal that the author was very far away from delivering, its usually very delusional
And some even few go against it, trying to make sense of it, sadly those are labeled as the ones that do not want to help, do not want to participate and are killing the idea. A few times ive even see counter reviews telling them "if you think this is wrong thn help us, fix our work, basically do our work for us but we get the credit, etc"
Anyone, there are many similarities

[minor nymph]

https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1937994967961706588

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

Just talked to Charlie and Josh Strife Hayes for a bit in DMs.

If you're mad at me for being a dick to Ross I get it and I'm sorry for that. I should not have lashed out but I had an emotional response due to how important this subject is to me.

On the developer side I have

X · Jun 25, 2025, 10:03 PM

Spoke to Moist and JoshStrifeHayes

[remote maple]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-its-our-boy-gif-18135000

[mossy timber]

"SOLAR FREAKING ROADWAYS!"

[jolly sky]

Hopefully some good discussion I hope

[indigo wadi]

wathc ppl say "thor didn't apologize blarg"

[tranquil jewel]

You hanging in there mate?

[minor nymph]

Yep, wrote this new post.

[hardy ingot]

I am just waiting for people to snippet the "I'm sorry" part in first sentence and not shut up about it for another 2 days 😄

[remote maple]

was surprised to see josh weigh in publicly tbh

[wary drift]

Fully Autonomous Self-Charging Robotaxies that literally pay for themselves globally by 8 years ago and Martian Colonly last year.

[hardy ingot]

With all the extensive narcissism allegations

[indigo wadi]

2 months*

[small patio]

Well writ from pirate, though I still disagree with the conclusion where more abuse is unavoidable

[placid plover]

Ur rad!

[indigo wadi]

to be fair, Charlie always does seem to come out onthe other side

[teal zodiac]

remember to drink some water between posts!!

[indigo wadi]

his beef with darkviperau proved that

[small patio]

Though that said, it's not like the abuse will always happen, and it is very likely to at least occasionally happen

So the point stands. I hate it when I destroy my own argument

[thorny cloud]

If you kill your own argument in a debate, then did the other person truly win? 🤔

[tranquil jewel]

Josh is a good man from my experience watching him. From the twitter thread i think he made an important note, "you catch more with honey than vinegar".
Theres been a lot of vinegar thrown around, and i hope theres some 'honey' later down the line to help everyone calm down

[hardy ingot]

You can't beat me if I beat me

[small patio]

With Titanfall 2, bots and cheaters were rampant for a long time, but the servers never really went down. This makes me think that they could consider that as not end of life and continue to not release the server binaries, thoughts?

[teal zodiac]

its called the Divorce Gambit, its when the queen is fed up and kills the king by herself

[hardy ingot]

Josh is awesome, nice to talk to, has reasonable takes even if he is ignorant about some things, but he is not afraid to admit he is ignorant, which is great

[small patio]

I'm so good at debating that I won the argument with myself

[thorny cloud]

I was thinking of the "Sea of Thieves" gambit where I scuttle my own ship before I let you sink it xD

[frozen nimbus]

Oh somewhat good news now?

Also who is josh?

[frozen nimbus]

Mood

[white mica]

joshstrifehayes

autocorrect

[frozen nimbus]

Are they just another person commentating on this stuff?

Like charlie

[plucky quail]

In regards to SKG I dont understand why people think it doesnt matter if the language is vague, why cant SKG remake their original initiative to be more clear and concise with what they want to happen, if they "just want server binaries" why doesnt it say that why dont they specify the devs wont need to release software updates for when hardware and OS's are no longer compatible with old games like its such a complex thing for game devs and nobody seems to care?

[teal zodiac]

is this a thing? damn, those thieves go hard it seems

[tight bramble]

Dudes.....what if......Thor is playing the ultimate engagement.

"Farm you twice? No. I farm you FRICE!"

[thorny cloud]

Tbh, that's part of the problem - they don't actually know, specifically, what they want. Ross's counter argument constantly is "We need to open the conversation so the LAWMAKERS can decide what laws are right to fix all this."

It is a massive fallacy of authority, assuming that not only will these people be capable of doing that job correctly simply because it is their job title, but that they will automatically be both informed AND sympathetic towards pro-consumer sensibilities.

[tranquil jewel]

Stuff like this is why i respect the guy, both Thor and Josh are great people and it gives me some hope to see

[jolly sky]

A content creator that is actually a reasonable person, funnily enough

[teal zodiac]

my very wild guess would be that at this point of the debate taking a step back and fixing some issues would be a "loss"

[frozen nimbus]

Ah ok cool 👍

[thorny cloud]

I mean I usually try to be chill about it and just say GG while I sink and play my instrument xD But if they're super toxic and clearly only looking for a fight, yeah I do that sometimes lol

[hardy ingot]

Yes, I had a chat with Josh a few times before and he's a great chap

[jolly sky]

He's a propah lad

[weak spindle]

British mmo youtuber

[tight bramble]

'Es*

[frozen nimbus]

If their toxic i ram my ship into theirs

[jolly sky]

A good ol' git

[plucky quail]

Its crazy to me to trust lawmakers with litterally ANYTHING

[weak spindle]

Real cool guy I love him

[frozen nimbus]

If I go down you go down

[tranquil jewel]

Now here's hoping there are others like him and this all calms down, heh

[frozen nimbus]

And then also fire bomb my own ship

[hardy ingot]

tbf not just MMO nowadays, he's pretty even split between retro, MMO & now apparently starting current games too 😄

[weak spindle]

Very true!!

I love his is it really good series

[indigo wadi]

now can Josh heal Thor vs Ross? XD

[hardy ingot]

i actually enjoy his Plays videos more than MMOs

[weak spindle]

I haven't watched a lot of them cause a bunch are games I wanna play someday

[thorny cloud]

I had someone do that the other day, actually xD I was like "Um, hi. Can I help you?" He didn't say anything, but he started swinging his sword, so we fought, I killed him, he respawned and just went about his way.

It was the strangest and probably least bothersome case of unwanted PvP I've ever had xD

[jolly sky]

The only time I wish I had a Twitter Account would be so I could report twats

[hardy ingot]

Nothing to heal there, just opposite views on same issue

[plucky quail]

I think thor should just make a really clear video about everything that goes into keeping a game playable like security updates. Hardware updates servers ect ect

[hardy ingot]

But as Josh himself said

Opponent does not immediately equal enemy

[weak spindle]

But I have a lot of respect for the guy

[frozen nimbus]

Sea of thieves such a fun game when you got friends to play with lol

[indigo wadi]

You think people would actually watch? Those that are against Thor wouldn't

[thorny cloud]

Yeah it is. My old crew isn't together anymore so I keep considering looking for a fourth person so I can get back on a galleon lol.

[hardy ingot]

Issue is that video would have to be a discussion with someone because otherwise they'll just say he misrepresented it or think up some bs case that would require another video and at that point you'd just have to keep coming back to same points endlessly

[tranquil jewel]

Probably the only thing to "heal" is public opinion. And thats probably not going to happen via twitter, more likely in a discord call or a stream or something with a conversation

[plucky quail]

It is weird to me that thor wont just debate ross

[frozen nimbus]

That would probably get more haters riled up

And the big problem rn is calming them down

[thorny cloud]

Didn't he try to talk to him on stream one time and that was what led to the "eat my ass" comments and such?

[frozen nimbus]

Which cant really be done

[hardy ingot]

tbf he doesn't owe anyone the debate but yes it would be nice if the debate happened, issue is that debate should've happened before that initiative ever started, not when it's about to die

[plucky quail]

Oh he doesnt owe anybody anything i just want to hear ross actually debate somebody who doesnt agree with him

[indigo wadi]

Nope. Given how Ross started this entire thing

[inland flame]

this is not what SKG is about though.
nothing on SKG is demanding development goes on, but instead leave a game at a reasonably playable state.
this doesnt mean servers are left up.
this doesnt mean the game gets security updates or support.

[fluid dome]

This is a reply to a reddit post 7 years ago on the r/games subreddit discussing the difference between licensing a game and owning one and I thought it was neat to share :)

@minor nymph

[plucky quail]

Playable state is to vague tho and COULD/CAN includr those things

[hardy ingot]

requires A LOT of added dev costs though and limits usage of licensed stuff

[jolly sky]

Yep, and people forget that this has been the case for decades.

Tapes, CD's, DVD's etc

[plucky quail]

Yeah expired licenses bring tons of legal trouble

[fluid dome]

This took me like 5 seconds to search on Google btw

[ripe minnow]

Reporting on Twitter is pointless after the new ownership they literally won't do anything unless it's very specific and they don't tell you so you can't report people.

Glad i deleted my account

[hardy ingot]

not even just expired

[thorny cloud]

Here's something I don't understand logistically though about that request:

If you are making a game that has live service features, with the intention of that game living as long as possible, how do you put an expiration date on your game before it is even out?

That's a bit like trying to make an episodic TV series, like a sitcom, with the express plan to end it after 100 episodes, or 10 seasons or whatever, regardless of where the show is at at that time. Even if it is at peak popularity.

[hardy ingot]

licenses in general assume mostly that you are the one running the show

[tight bramble]

All of this can be solved with -hand wave-

Duh! Why didn't you think of -plot device- to fix it?!?!

[hardy ingot]

if you let someone else run the show, that licensee will not take kindly to it

[plucky quail]

Theres just to many layers to bring this in front of lawmakers in such a vague state

[jolly sky]

If you use a DVD outside of its licensing agreement (like for example, playing it in a public environment) and are taken to court for it, the actual owners of the license theoretically could take that away from you.

What will more likely happen though is that you will be fined

[plucky quail]

I do agree with the intent btw i just cant whole heartedly support it like that

[hardy ingot]

Yes it would have to be described in meticulous detail and the point that Ross specifically made clear HE wants to push could never pass

[ripe minnow]

You can't since no one can see into the future; I think sony released Concord and that died under a year if i remember correctly

[hardy ingot]

it can never apply to ALL games as he said

[proud lily]

Well an expiration date is more like a "guaranteed good until" date.
If it goes longer people are happy. But they'd want a guarantee for it to go at least x long.
Which even that is hard to give in MMOs tbh.

[thorny cloud]

If it was a specialized counsel of lawmakers, who were expressly trained in electronic industries and who had a VOCAL AND CONSISTENT track record about being pro consumer? A track record that predated their public office?

Then maybe this would be okay. But that isn't the case lol.

[hardy ingot]

That's just not realistic

[fluid dome]

You try and ask them to be specific and get hit with "wElL iT's MeAnT tO bE vAguE"

[plucky quail]

Exactlyyy

[hardy ingot]

In general I agree with about 20% of the initiative's coverage, the other 80% however I am vehemently against

[frozen nimbus]

Which if that was the case, even more reason not to support it lol

[thorny cloud]

But then that means studios have to move that goalpost, probably multiple times. At the very least, that is going to cost human resources in terms of workhours.

[spare topaz]

thats not how EU regulations work - it would by definition apply to the entire industry. What is being proposed must be viewed through that lens

[frozen nimbus]

Those 20% for me is probably just the good hearted idea

[plucky quail]

Like i do think if a dead game is recreated by fans like toon town for example or club penguin that should be allowed but its so much more complex legally

[hardy ingot]

then the law cannot work at all, because that's just going to hurt everyone

[fluid dome]

I will just be here, sipping my tea like a slay queen should this be a thing that is turned into law and it turns out really bad, and when everyone cries foul and is like "THATS NOT WHAT WE ASKED FOR" I will just be like

"Well, now this is where you found out."

[spare topaz]

exactly. The EU does not deal in halves; it is either the entire thing or nothing at all

[hardy ingot]

Dev - Consumer is a symbiotic relationship, if one suffers, so does the other

[thorny cloud]

Agreed. I have no problem with fans reviving servers for a game that is official dead.

But I also don't understand the legality enough to suggest how to navigate those waters.

[frozen nimbus]

Doubt its gonna be turned into a law now

You want some of my popcorn tho for the current stuff

[plucky quail]

Also. Sometimes its okay for things to die

Nothing is permanant

[proud lily]

Yea, but its more of PR problem.
Reality would be that they'd just put the end of your subscription as the expiration date for example.
So the "expiration date" would always be "1 year from now" or "6 months from now" since that's a little safer.
Which looks bad on paper, although nothing changed

[frozen nimbus]

Other than doom smh

[fluid dome]

I don't like this automod

[thorny cloud]

Where does MYM fall under this right now btw?

Are the servers still up for it even though it's been sunset?

[fluid dome]

It's preventing me from using the f around find out gif

[hardy ingot]

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with any piece of media dying, just don't make it actively inaccessible to people, like taking it off libraries, even if it's unplayable

[tight bramble]

Thors video about that has such a toxic comment section.....

[thorny cloud]

Yeah there's definitely a lot of shades of grey here

[thorny cloud]

Yeah it does x_x

[hardy ingot]

so does the 80$ games video

[fluid dome]

A bigger issue rn is that companies aren't embracing backwards compatibility.

That is quite literally the best way to preserve games.

[thorny cloud]

The trolls will be out in force for at least a few more days most likely

[ocean agate]

i want to make an initiative to have "some thing" added to a government symbol.....how quick could i get signatures if it was TTP? 1 million signatures TTP? less than 5 minutes? if its compelling people sign

[spare topaz]

just to build on that; cosmetics arent broken down by type, the EU simply has the Cosmetics Regulations. Any device used in human health, whether its a catheter, a hospital bed, or the disinfectants used on them, fall under the Medical Devices Regulations. If anything has more than one moving part, then it is placed on the market under the Machinery Regulations. SKG is proposing a law that, based on EU precedent, shall and will apply to every game, of every genre, on every platform. Thats the inherent risk in whats being proposed, and why it need way more scrutiny and thought than the current climate is permitting it

[minor nymph]

Man, this shit is insufferable.

[tight bramble]

Not a particular object. The words "some thing"

[jolly sky]

The price of games isn't really the problem. The main problem is that the price of literally almost everything else has increased (with quality going down) and wages haven't risen to adjust for that.

[plucky quail]

Backwards compatibility is really complex tho because of hardware changes amongst other things

[cedar shale]

Except that is the damn case. I genuinely dont understand why its so hard to understand that just cause SKG may be flawed, then the EU will make a bad law out of it

The EU is not gonna make a ECI into a bad law out of nowhere

[fluid dome]

That doesn't mean its impossible to do.

A lot of games released on the original xbox are still locked to that hardware because Microsoft refuses to port them with a remaster to newer hardware, things like Blinx, Jet Set Future, PGR2 etc

[thorny cloud]

I'm not saying that the EU will inherently make a bad judgment.

I am saying it is a logical fallacy to assume that they will find what the right laws are simply because they are lawmakers. We're treating the lawmakers like bloodhounds trying to find a scent.

You're literally engaging in the same logical fallacy you just tried to accuse me of, you're simply running the other direction down its length.

[minor nymph]

While potentially true there isn't value in demanding all games stay playable forever either.
It's an absurdly infeasible request due to the nature of Online Only games.

[thick ledge]

what happen when every original xbox breaks

[spare topaz]

word of caution here: the EU is wholly and fully capable of making badly worded or poorly implemented regulations - theres ample examples of that

[thick ledge]

does microsoft have to keep providing hardware so its playable

[soft vector]

Probably because the cost to do so outweighs the potential income

[hardy ingot]

https://www.jackvania.com are these all his projects or is he just very minimalistic? cos I don't even see an MP game there unless Graveyard Shift is one..

[thick ledge]

also online only games are my favorite kind

[plucky quail]

Theres like no incentive for them to do that tho video games cost money and remasters like that are a huge gamble

[tight bramble]

But....I wanna! -pouts-

[thick ledge]

requiring playablitiy will require bottom down design changes that will increase costs quite a bit

indie live games that operate on incredibly thin margins would be done

[spare topaz]

and a crystal ball to foresee every hardware and software change for the next decade or two

[hardy ingot]

ah on itch he states he makes code for game studios.. alright, benefit of doubt

[ocean agate]

yeah and they already justify chargin 80 a game, how much higher will it be if they had to support it like that

[soft vector]

If we take Dune Awakening as an example. I bought the Game, to Play it now. I didn't buy the Game with the expectation that I can Play it in 20+ years from now.

[plucky quail]

People just dont seem to care that games HAVE to make money because of the nature of our society

[minor nymph]

Just some dude swinging on the internet.

[thick ledge]

we know those servers wont be there forever

[spare topaz]

How are you holding up in all this Thor? I hope you're doing alright?

[thick ledge]

they dont always have to, theres indie MMOs that lose money, but the devs keep it up anyway out of love for the craft

[plucky quail]

Yeah hope this isnt stressing you out to much thor, just watching this stresses me out a bit lol

[jolly sky]

The only Live Service game I can think of that could have an "easy" time adjusting to still being played after support for it is gone, is Deep Rock Galactic.

[proud lily]

They might. It's custom course that the first person lawmakers consult after a successful initative is whoever is heading that initiative.
And if that individual has no idea what they actually want then they won't magically find someone that will. Every other expert they might find will have their opinion on the matter. And without direction who's opinion matters that's the law equivalent of development hell.

[thick ledge]

its nice when games are designed like deep rock where you can keep playing

legally rquiring that is silly

[fluid dome]

This can be solved with emulation baked into the new hardware tho

• Myst
• Riven
• Resident Evil: Director's Cut
• Abe's Odyssey
• Dino Crises
• Time Crysis

All of these are examples of PS1 games currently able to be emulated on the PS4, currently available on PS+

[hardy ingot]

I just can't from the phrase "As one dev to another, you lack the intellectual octane", I have never heard such flowery way to say "I think I'm smarter than you" 😄 caught me by surprise is all

[nocturne forge]

So something funny Ive noticed, everyone seems to act like the idea of stop killing games is dead, Like its over corpos won done it be all your steam library is monthly pay now. What the hell. There is Louis Rossman. His fight is a work of decades, ifixit gamernexus. And this entire initiative died in months?

[thick ledge]

do, do you think thats free for them to do that??

that costed money

thats why its behind a paywall

[fluid dome]

Of course not. I'm just saying it's doable.

[thick ledge]

of course its doable

[jolly sky]

And half of the studios that made those games don't even exist anymore

[thick ledge]

its more expensive

the budget would increase, making some games impossible

[jolly sky]

So who's going to do that

[plucky quail]

This is a big deal to its not like "microsoft" made all those games they had tons of small studios doing those things

[thick ledge]

if i require you to financially factor in future emulation as part of your dev budget

your dev budget will have to be bigger

triple A will absolutely be able to eat that cost

games like, project gorgon?

no

theyd be dead

[nocturne forge]

Nintendo went through hell to make switch 1 games to make it work on 2. Hardware + software emulation. The work was no joke

[thick ledge]

theyre already barely scraping by

[hardy ingot]

I always love the argument of "Well devs should do more to make it possible!"
"And who's gonna pay for it?"
"..."

[white mica]

random picture

[thick ledge]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/342940/Project_Gorgon/ this mmo

Steam

Project: Gorgon

GO ON AN ADVENTURE
Project: Gorgon is a 3D fantasy MMORPG (massively-multiplayer online role-playing game) featuring an immersive experience that allows the player to forge their own path through exploration and discovery. We don't guide you through a world on rails, and as a result, there are many hidden secrets awaiting discovery. Proje…

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

2228

▶ Play video

tiny

dead

if required to make it playable after service ends

[frozen nimbus]

😭

[violet barn]

This irks me that people are hating Thor just to hate atp

:(

[fluid dome]

I wasn't even talking about MMOs

[thick ledge]

is that fair?

you cant just say "well not that one" the proposal is all games

it doesnt specify

[fluid dome]

I was literally just talking about legacy titles locked to old hardware

[proud lily]

I've stated this before but what really lost me about the movement was the people. Not Ross, barely know the guy, but the community that started surrounding the movement.
There is this very loud subgroup that just genuinely really wants all online games/games as a service to die. And they absolutely see SKG as a weapon to peruse for that purpose.
And to this day that subgroup is just... there. Noone in the movements chasing them out. Noone in the movements denouncing them. Noone in the movements refuting them.
This group with a frankly rather extreme opinion is just allowed to exist in the movement. Is it because the leadership is afraid of antagonizing people on their side? Or is it because leadership secretly agrees with them?
I don't know. I can not know. And that makes this way too big a risk for me.

[hardy ingot]

It's like with SWTOR, everyone knows what the issue with that game not ever evolving was, it was based on some absolute garbage engine that never even got finished because it was so bad

Everyone knows it needed a better engine to keep up, but the game already cost 300M $, who would be willing to dish out another 100M $ when it still didn't pay for itself to remake it in a new engine 😄

[plucky quail]

But again who pays for it

[teal zodiac]

cant you take a break? or maybe this is too time sensitive to stop now

[nocturne forge]

Im seeing people doing it I never expected. This is the third time Im reworking my following

[thick ledge]

the ps2 has a library of 4,113 titles

[mossy timber]

Honestly I think people are hating on Thor because they didn't succeed in canceling him last time, there are still people suggesting JoCat is some dangerous creeper for liking girls and are searching for a non-existant victim

[green plank]

i expect the animal people to hate blindly, im more surprised at the other content creators (the ones that are actually large... not the irrelevant ones 🙂)

[thick ledge]

imagine the monumental cost of making sure an indefinitely emulation is possible for all of them

[hardy ingot]

Personally I hate live service games but I'd never support a movement to end them 😄

Because I know plenty of people who like that model

[spare topaz]

and that is a completely fair and reasonable position!

[tight bramble]

What's interesting is we have already seen a VERY big example with how quickly the industry and the player base is able to move on from a game that is even looking like it might be out of content. Not that it is, just looks like it's going to. That example is destiny 2. When the content is played to its logical conclusion and the gearing is perfected, the players stop playing.

[thick ledge]

if you dont like a thing

[jolly sky]

There is definitely a large amount of people who are just waiting and hopping from drama to drama, happy to take up whatever cause that is against Thor

[thick ledge]

dont participate in it

[fluid dome]

Is this a trick....

[thick ledge]

how is asking where is the money coming from a trick

[nocturne forge]

The slop machnine never stops

[thick ledge]

ensuring compatibility costs money

[hardy ingot]

The worst part about the initiative is that once a side that is more popular gets chosen, everyone just tries to make it about THEIR idea of what the initiative is about

[thick ledge]

you have to hire devs to do that

[hardy ingot]

Some people want it to be about ending live service games altogether

[thick ledge]

where are we sourcing that money from

[fluid dome]

The Publishers would pay for it no?

[hardy ingot]

Seen some even argue that MP games should die

[undone hatch]

It's really sad to see a such a reaction from so many people purely based on a difference of opinion. Whether right or wrong, the amount of trolling and hate that is being spewed really shows how divisive and intolerant to any difference of opinion people have become. It really is a shame. How are we going to get anywhere with anything when any disagreement is automatically responded to with vitriol and hate

[thick ledge]

with what money?

[hardy ingot]

Other insist binaries have to be handed over

[plucky quail]

Thats an insanely undue burden tho

[thick ledge]

would the price increase to handle it?

[mossy timber]

my biggest beef with a live service game is when it's a team co-op game and people join to play like it's solo, but that's a societal issue not a game design one

[hardy ingot]

Other yet claim that's not the point at all

[fluid dome]

Money from the consumers

[thick ledge]

would they take money from the devs to do it?

[plucky quail]

But these remasters and such are not free to make and a huge monetary gamble

[tight bramble]

Publishers care about ROI, not longevity

[thick ledge]

so the dev team would just make less money

what if the game ive developed just barely breaks even

do i deserve to now lose money?

[jolly sky]

With what devs? A lot of the studios that developed those old games don't exist anymore, or the devs have completely moved on

[hardy ingot]

funny thing with the initiative being aimed at publishers was always the fact that publishers were never going to take a hit

Since every hit aimed at publisher just gets redirected at dev team

[frozen nimbus]

People dont care to actually check anything themselves or talk civilized so instead hop on hate waves

[thick ledge]

or should my game not exist because i cant afford the increased cost?

[green plank]

i mean the things that lead to a roi long term is longevity though right

[hardy ingot]

seen way too many people die on that hill too.. claiming that should be the case

[thick ledge]

lmao

most indie devs already develop thier games at massive personal loss

we wanna make that even worse?

[hardy ingot]

no, no

[fluid dome]

Idk how u fix it

[spare topaz]

the thing about this whole thing that gets me is that no one is discussing the implications of vastly increased regulatory burden on the games industry; any regulation that kicks in, based on EU precedent so far, would have timeframes for sunsetting a game - based on a number of existing regs for other sectors, youd be looking at 5-10 years at a minimum. Thats a lot of after-release support that would like be incurred, letalone the various documentation and provisions to monitor such things. The proposal as i see it runs a massive risk of effectively stopping the indie space dead, and allowing the big companies to wipe the deck. Example is Medtech, where the MDR has effectively created a regulatory minefield that only the larger medical device manufacterers can thrive in, and more and more smaller manufacturers are dropping out

[thick ledge]

thats what we are saying

[hardy ingot]

Their response to it was "make it free to play, then you don't have to worry about it!"

[thick ledge]

we all think it should be solved

but this isnt a good way to fix it

[plucky quail]

People also seem to be forgetting that remasters remakes emulation software these are niche things for tiny communities

[thick ledge]

and it needs more thought

[jolly sky]

And neither does SKG, but it pretended it had the means to do so

[fluid dome]

I'm just a dude who wants to have my cool games that I remember as a kid, playable on hardware I have now

[frozen nimbus]

Is there any way for devs to report false reviews on steam or no, ig not

[thick ledge]

this is a valid want

[green plank]

this drama is pretty heavy, im gonna go ask amouranth her take on skg, she played a game once on stream so i think her take would be important

[thick ledge]

and i respect it

but i dont think this is the way

[hardy ingot]

If it was a simple solution kind of issue it would have been resolved years ago

[fluid dome]

Blinx Time Sweeper was so cool

[plucky quail]

Im with you but somebody has to spend time and money.

[jolly sky]

Like good lord imagine trying to make a PS3 only game run on hardware now

[thick ledge]

time sweeper is based

everyone knows that

[small patio]

Interesting point, hadn't thought of that

[fluid dome]

Not everyone does cuz it's locked to the og xbox 😭

[jolly sky]

PS3 development was already an ass to Dev for because it had completely different architecture to literally everything else

[thick ledge]

and i agree it should be playable

but i dont think sweepingly requiring every dev to make thier game playable on current hardware is a fair way of doing it

perma future proofing isnt feasible

[fluid dome]

You could basically vacuum stuff, and enemies and pause, rewind and fast forward time. It was so cool guys

[thick ledge]

just like id have a hard time doing anything with a laser disc in 2025

[hardy ingot]

I feel like the main issue with this initiative was that it decided to try and solve everything too simply at once and ignoring the risks

[thick ledge]

i agree

[small patio]

There are a lot of problems for consoles especially with their third party releases when the specifications and underlying software change from generation to generation to keep games playable

[elder scaffold]

New hardware is gonna keep coming out and we'd have to hire someone each time to patch stuff

[hardy ingot]

If it came in small parts of things most people agree on, it would have better chances of success

[thick ledge]

the new xbox is actually gonna kind of address this?

its gonna have PC compatibility

[small patio]

Another question: what happens if a company goes under and at the same time announces that because of that they no longer are able to support their games

[thick ledge]

so like youcould theoretically emulate stuff on ur console

[plucky quail]

Also if there is a big enough community to make a remaster possible financially, llegal emulations would already exist.. but for tons of these games they dont because the community isnt there

[thick ledge]

its alot of volunteer work

[small patio]

Would this law mean that they would have to have a plan for that before they go under, like a button they can just press to release everything they need so that it remains playable, or are they technically off the hook because the company is no more, or does debt show up

[thick ledge]

some games that have been made playable took thousands of man hours to do so

for free

[fluid dome]

If Sony files for Bankruptcy right now, pretty much 1/3 of AAA is just gone

[jolly sky]

Like for me I'm glad that Legacy of Kain:Soul Reaver 1 & 2 got a remaster to make it more playable on current hardware, but that required a massive effort, and IIRC was done with paid dev work and volunteer work

[thick ledge]

to be fair if they didnt sell the IP it becomes abandon ware

which, is a legal greyspace for running it yourself

[jolly sky]

Infact, it likely wouldn't have happened at all if Raina Audron hadn't been an absolute pillar of the community for many, many years

[fluid dome]

Everything sucks rn

[thick ledge]

im genuinely sorry for the state of some peoples favorites

[zenith summit]

the initiative is just to inform lawmakers that there is this problem and here is the rough gist of what it is, lawyers take care of putting together the actual laws and they would take into account all the issues which may prevent it being possible under some circumstances. People in the EU cant just write whatever laws they want in an initiative and then it becomes law at 1million votes.

[thick ledge]

but we cant harm the indie scene in such a way to get at it

[small patio]

There's also the problem with distributing the persistent copy of the game

[fluid dome]

The common man is being priced out of genuinely kick ass games

[hardy ingot]

watches all the people reminiscing while having always been a PC only person so he's unbothered

nod nod

[small patio]

Who picks up the bag and the burden of distributing a game that no one wants, simply to comply with EU legislation

[thick ledge]

of course not, but you expect career lawyers and politicians to understand all the nuances?

[spare topaz]

yeah, thats the sad thing - i deal with european regs on the daily, ive read enough of them now to generally understand the broader patterns they wanna implement in general. Regulatory burden, evidence provision, active monitoring, and minimum timescales of viability are things that appear time and again; time and again i see the same requirement to maintain support - be it documentary, technical, or any other means to ensure the product remains active - for up to 5-10 years. I think its naive to believe that the EU will make an exception for the games industry, when it hasnt for cosmetics, biocides, machinery, batteries, waste management, or medical devices

[thick ledge]

they could very well just ignore the petition, or just legislate whatever based on it

its a dangerous game

[plucky quail]

You are putting something this consequential in front of law makers period it needs to be clear and refined

[white mica]

accursed farms has been replying to thor on twitter for anyone interested in reading https://x.com/Rosslight2/status/1937965698627653779

Ross light (@Rosslight2)

@accursedfarms @PirateSoftware To be honest, you did leave out a lot of context. And also, the timing is a bit weird on this. Why did you wait so long to release a React video to something that's been out for months?

X · Jun 25, 2025, 8:06 PM

[zenith summit]

they would reach out to people in the industry to get an understanding, they arnt going to write laws in a bubble

[jolly sky]

The common person is getting priced out of everything due to a variety of reasons

[fluid dome]

Yeah I know

[plucky quail]

Your faith in lawmakers is entirely misplaced

[jolly sky]

Mostly the price-to-Wage gap problems almost world wide

[zenith summit]

The EU lawmakers have done a good job so far with consumer rights laws

[thick ledge]

i agree they have

but once this is out there

there is NO controlling what happens

you can advocate for certain things

but the lawmakers WILL do whatever tf they want

without understanding the nuances

thats extremely dnagerous if you didnt clearly line out what needs to be done

[plucky quail]

That doesnt mean you should present and unrefined vague initiative

[thick ledge]

its better to be prepared NOW

rather than too late

[jolly sky]

Prime example, GDPR still has massive loopholes in it that certain businesses choose to employ, and there is also a lot of government overreach currently happening with other laws that we have no control over

[zenith summit]

its fine, they do not expect the initiatives to be written by law makers

[thick ledge]

its not though

they could very well misunderstand the issue

because of how the initiative is written

[formal kestrel]

better to do things right the first time than have to go in and try get it changed when its inevitably wrong

[hardy ingot]

or worse yet, understand it as it is written atm 😄

[thick ledge]

that would be catastrophic

[spare topaz]

but they do expect it to be written in a manner that suggests a familiarity with the wider regulatory framework it is expected to operate in

[zenith summit]

no because once the issue is identified, they will likely discard the initiative and come to their own conclusion

[thick ledge]

and absolutely deep 6 the current indie scene

[jolly sky]

Do you not see how that is also bad

[thick ledge]

IF they identify the issue

[hardy ingot]

That's worse 😄

[zenith summit]

there needs to be some trust/faith

[thorny cloud]

Then this is Pandora's Box.

[thick ledge]

trust politicians?

lmao

[plucky quail]

LMAO absolutely not

[hardy ingot]

No, there very much does not need to be trust in politics 😄 exact opposite

[jolly sky]

You cannot put faith or trust into law

[elder scaffold]

Trusting the government? Feck no

[undone hatch]

How can it be controversial to want the initiative brought in front of lawmakers to be as clear, balanced and realistic as possible? The proposal should attempt to be as beneficial as possible to both gamers and game developers in order to protect users but also not stifle innovation. Why can't the initiative be amended to iron out the kinks?

[plucky quail]

Lawmakers do not have youre best interests in mind

[small patio]

You seem pretty knowledgeable about these things, how world you phrase something like this to introduce the issue at hand to lawmakers

[thick ledge]

the EU has a decent consumer track record

but its nto perfect

[fluid dome]

Personally I feel as though this is a low priority issue being spun as a cataclysm if nothing happens. There's so many other issues that need addressing in the industry and the focus is one whether a game has end of life or not? Idk

[spare topaz]

no there doesn't - that's not how the EU works at all. It operates on data driven, evidence based decision making. The burden of proof lies with the proposer, not the legislature

[thick ledge]

and they can and will make mistakes

[zenith summit]

like i said before, they have done a lot of good with consumer rights, those would not be in place if no one trusted or believed in them

[hardy ingot]

Trust in law, immediately reminded me of this scene https://youtube.com/shorts/g5Uvq7OD6zk?si=D7EiDQYttvueKF3U

[jolly sky]

With evidence and data, not "hope that it works out"

[thick ledge]

whats in place now is totally different then what is bieng proposed, you cannot just trust them to do the right thing without a proper proposal

literally saying it doesnt matter what the proposal says, the politicians will figure it out

[thorny cloud]

A lawmaker's job is not to pass laws in ways that realize the ideals of the people who put the initiative before them.

A lawmaker's job is to get that docket off of their table as quickly as possible so they can hear the next proposal. They are going to look for the quickest solution with the least resistance.

If we want them to enact the BEST solutions, we have to herd them to that field like sheep. We can't expect them to track it down for us like bloodhounds.

[thick ledge]

when it took like like 2 decades to stop apple from gouging people with unique cords

[cursive solar]

this topic is so tiring to even discuss, theres alot of factors and when someone covers or answers one factor, the other person then moves onto something else and expects that person to know everything. theres some things we cant know and have to be left up to the people running the initiative and also the government if by some miracle there happens to be enough signatures

[plucky quail]

Exactly.

[thick ledge]

i dont trust either of those entities to decide the future of my hobby

thank you very much

[jolly sky]

Welcome to making a law. It requires far more in depth discussion than what SKG was hoping for

[thick ledge]

and also sort of my job

my job is orbital

[cursive solar]

your not saying anything surprising

dont act like it

[thick ledge]

its not ment to be surprising

[jolly sky]

Because the truth doesn't need to be suprising

[thick ledge]

we just want the proposal to say what i means

[jolly sky]

It needs to only be true

[thick ledge]

and if it means what it currently says

then i dont agree with it

[cursive solar]

thats fair

[cursive solar]

good for you, dont know what else you want me to say, i said my piece

[hardy ingot]

No that's exactly why it needs to be discussed because it has been made abundantly clear by the people running the initiative that they do not understand it either 😄

[calm locust]

Just accelerate the AAA industry crash. Problem solved

[thick ledge]

you engaged with us man

[calm locust]

No more lost games

[teal zodiac]

ye, i was going to say something similar

[cursive solar]

except nobody here are gonna know the answers to things people here ask

[plucky quail]

Also i dont trust ross to spear head and adovacte properly if he cant even write a clear and consice initiative

[fluid dome]

Defining something as abstract as ownership is going to be like getting blood from a stone

[zenith summit]

even if it manages to get to 1mil, they might just get a "who cares?" response like the UK did, I wouldn't worry too much about it becoming a thing

[hardy ingot]

Exactly, ergo, include everyone

That's what you do when one person doesn't have all answers

[thick ledge]

no one here is saying they have the answers, we are saying the answer being provided isnt the right one as written

[hardy ingot]

It's the point of debate, exchange of views on each point

[thick ledge]

if someone had the objectively correct answer

[plucky quail]

Thats just far to non chalent for the damage something like this can do

[cursive solar]

god forbid when a random person in a chat doesnt know the answer to every answer

[thick ledge]

itd be alot simpler

[teal zodiac]

Can we please, PLEASE kill League first? im asking this from the bottom of my heart. The rest will fall like dominos

[fluid dome]

The UK should not be the shining example of how to expect politicians to handle things

[jolly sky]

Then we do as we've always done. Talk with them to help them understand

[hardy ingot]

I don't recall anyone asking for that, but if someone doesn't know something, it's logical to correct them

[cursive solar]

except you dont know what the right answers are, someone could straight up lie to you and you would be none above it

[hardy ingot]

Being corrected is not lethal

[calm locust]

I don't know about League but man that 2XKO game looks like complete ass top to bottom, I hope that flops mega hard

[plucky quail]

Fr fr USA and UK are some of the worst examples lol

[thick ledge]

debate is always exhausting, but if gaming is important to you then its worth the effort

IMO

[hardy ingot]

goes for any topic really

[jolly sky]

As is anything really

[zenith summit]

This is the only place ive seen a negative reaction to it to be honest, it is interesting to read all the viewpoints

[hardy ingot]

Any effort worth shit is difficult

[thick ledge]

theres not a ton of people who read very deeply into it

[fluid dome]

At this point I wouldn't mind an industry wide reset if things get bleaker, least it'll wash out all the crap we've accumulated in the last 40 years

[thick ledge]

but most of us at this point have combed the thing heavily

[cursive solar]

i did all that shpeel yesterday, its pointless, people will change their minds if they want to, they have to want to

[lunar moth]

If it was then I'd be dead a hundred times over; I'd rather be corrected when I mess up or make a faulty assumption, than to just dunning kruger myself

[thorny cloud]

It's also the only place where I am seeing actual critical discussion about it, rather than just namecalling and insults.

[plucky quail]

Probably cause alot of us are in the tech sector because thats who thor appeals to

[spare topaz]

for starters, before announcing it, I would have looked at similar existing regulations that achieve similar intended goals to the initiative, and cited them as examples of both what, and how, we would achieve our goals. I would then informally convene a workshop of industry and consumer advocates to develop the proposal, taking into account both the concerns and proposed mitigations to those concerns, rather than excluding industry voices from it entirely. I would then work with lawyers well versed and experienced in EU policy submissions and worked with them to create an initiative proposing a framework regulation rather than a regulation proper, as a framework regulation would then require the creation of a working group comprised of all stakeholders affected by the initiative (which means it would include consumer and industry advocates) to develop the working plan on how the proposal would be implemented. I would also have explicitly put exemptions into the proposal for games that cannot be left operable in their intended state at point of sunset (i.e. live service games)

[zenith summit]

yes, it all needs discussing

[cursive solar]

except most people here i doubt watched ross' video because they dont trust him

[hardy ingot]

I have met very few people in life that can accept being corrected 😄

[jolly sky]

Because a lot of people assumed it would be "quick and easy" to put this through, when the Intiative delves into a lot of laws that currently exist that make it the opposite of quick and easy

[thick ledge]

the community here has always supported thoughtful discussion of these things

[calm locust]

People with lots of money (AAA devs) are the only ones making GAAS games that are marked for death. When the AAA industry crashes then we'll have no more of that. I don't think indies are interested in killing their games and they can just carry on selling them as products like normal

[thick ledge]

not that anyone listens to any of us LUL

[teal zodiac]

From someone who has been playing League for around 1y i can say that Riot is doing all they can to kill their own games, they were the heroes we needed all along

[hardy ingot]

Well, I watched him, and it gave me 10 more reasons to be against the initiative than before I watched it

[cursive solar]

i can say the same

[calm locust]

such as?

[fluid dome]

I'm still confused as to why Ross is excluding Devs...

[cursive solar]

well i can say this at least, you watched the video, so good

[lunar moth]

Same here

[thick ledge]

because it seems like he doesnt believe devs should have a say

[cursive solar]

thats more than most people probably done here

[thick ledge]

like devs are some how predatory beings and not people

[plucky quail]

Because devs are his enemy

[calm locust]

Nowhere did he say that

[thick ledge]

i didnt say he did

i said it seems like it

[fluid dome]

But how will he get hit games like... The Crew?

[thick ledge]

thats the impression i got

[calm locust]

That's like saying "it seems like there's a pink elephant hiding in his room"... uh okay?

[fluid dome]

The Crew

[frozen nimbus]

Seeing as everyone here are nerds, we all do our own investigations and come to our own conclusions

[calm locust]

If he doesn't state it it just makes an ass of you to assume things

[thick ledge]

if we are taking the piss about examples of closed games: need for speed 2015

my 10 year old movie tie in

[fluid dome]

It's just baffling

[cursive solar]

wait need for speed 2015 got shut down??

[thick ledge]

i think so

[cursive solar]

bruh wtf

that game was actually good

[thick ledge]

i saw a video complaining about it or smth

[fluid dome]

It feels like he feels Personally attacked The Crew is no longer active

[teal zodiac]

my honest take is that none of that was well planned at all and took a weird proportion and now no member is knowledgeable enough to discuss or even fix, let alone pedal back

[blissful imp]

Driveclub

[thick ledge]

it was approached extremely casually

and this isnt something you should approach casually

[calm locust]

I'm mostly avoidant of GAAS games anyway

[cursive solar]

thats sad man

[thick ledge]

no one was playing it

[white mica]

i have never played a live service game in my entire life and i never plan to

[thick ledge]

its a 10 year old movie tie in

[cursive solar]

that doesnt matter?

[thick ledge]

it totally does

servers are expensive

[thorny cloud]

That's a shame because Helldivers II is incredible

[plucky quail]

It costs money to run

[cursive solar]

it now means i have to reason to want to buy it

[fluid dome]

Like, legit, a better example of games that are no longer playable would have been the games still locked to legacy hardware

[cursive solar]

okay, if it was made in a way before launch to be able to run after support stopped then i wouldve liked that

[hardy ingot]

Expectation that devs will just cover the costs for additional development required
Complete ignorance regarding how licenses work
Disregarding the effect this is going to have on genres like MMOs
Limitation of creativity
Vagueness of "reasonable playable state"
Trying to apply a limitation to all game types
Roping in even most F2P titles with the vague exception of "This will not affect free to play games" in combination with the initiative aiming at, outside games, also "paid game features" such as cosmetics
... just off the top of my head

[calm locust]

This is why I still play retro games

[fluid dome]

My PS2 will never betray me

[thick ledge]

theyre no longer making copies of this and that should be ILLEGAL

[plucky quail]

Its not that simple.

[cursive solar]

and you know how complicated it is then?

[thick ledge]

turly a gem

[zenith summit]

I personally do not care about the crew, I support skg because I want something to be done about the way companies like Nintendo can take down their online services and effectively kill off hundreds of games. I do not expect them to support these services permanently, but there does need to be a middle ground

[white mica]

ok i guess thinking about it depending on whats a live service i lied. i play a few "multiplayer" games like Gunfire Reborn and Across the Obelisk but idk if they are considered live service

[jolly sky]

The over simplification of game development in the eyes of the casual public really is something that keeps rearing its head

[wet storm]

Well now I wanna play it

[teal zodiac]

and thats why i love what GoG is doing with the Preservation Program!! its so good, and recently they made Breath of Fire 4 available which is amazingly good

[lunar moth]

You are making a grandiose assumption by doing that.
Yes, most of the time folks won't go in-depth looking into every nook and cranny to understand stuff - that's why you got some folks who do, and then convey it to others.

When stuff like SKG is happening where everything about it is vague (no matter however many times folks say it isn't, it is - if one cannot concisely describe something in one or two short sentences for the overall goal, it isn't that specific), it gets extremely muddy in what means what. Which is why to get to the core of something, you have to bring it to its logical conclusion following the arguments and structure of intent.

For most people in communities like these... folks just wanna make cool stuff, play games, and enjoy life.
There's still gonna be folks like myself and others who go and research it to then convey it. The entire debacle today with tons of people were folks trying to say "You are misrepresenting it" when folks were just being intellectually honest and following the arguments and stated intentions.

[thick ledge]

im a big supporter of putting a disclaimer on it that it will eventually be unavailable

but thats about it

[plucky quail]

Games require security updates hardware compatibility updates if it has servers it requires server hardware ect ect theres sooo many factors dude

[thorny cloud]

Well to be fair now you're just lampooning because no one is asking for a company to keep physically producing a video game forever lol

The other side is doing enough work to misrepresent what Thor is saying so lets not do the same thing yeah?

[thick ledge]

no your right im just taking the piss with that

[spare topaz]

hell, they could have just as easily put proposed exemptions into the proposal to exclude games that cannot reasonably be left in a playable state. Literally a handful of sentences could have solved a swathe of issues with this initiative

[thick ledge]

having a bit of fun with it

[thorny cloud]

Oh ok lol

[frozen nimbus]

I support this

[thick ledge]

only that game specifically

[hardy ingot]

Yes issue is Ross is heading the initiative and he is extremely stubborn on that point and insists, as he made clear in his videos, that it HAS TO BE all games

[fluid dome]

I don't have an issue with games preservation so long as the games I want are in circulation in some form.

These two games are essentially still in circulation. No new copies are being made, but you can still buy refurbished used copies at third party sellers like Cex

[plucky quail]

I own old PC games on disc that litterally cannot run on new hardware because the software isnt compatible like. Its complex

[wet storm]

It is important to have a little fun with it because this chat has been nothing but people spending hours being mad

[spare topaz]

and therein lies the issue

[thick ledge]

every game company has to produce atleast 100 copies of shrek: swamp kart speedway a year if they wanna do buisness in the EU

[frozen nimbus]

Too little

[fluid dome]

Also suprise cameo by my gf btw

[thick ledge]

yeah i mean

[hardy ingot]

just produce 2 of them to go with any physical copy of any game

[thick ledge]

i collect games i liked

but im not particularly mad about like

helldivers 2 not being playable eventually

i know it wont be

[nocturne oasis]

it should come with every game, as hidden thing you get after 100% a game

[thick ledge]

and i knew going in

im there for the experience

[spare topaz]

only games? i want swamp kart speedway shipped with my cereal thank you very much

[wet storm]

So ET has enough credit til like 2050

[calm locust]

I dunno I guess SKG's mission seems sound and I gave them a light bit of support (voted in petitions) but honestly this seems like more trouble than it's worth, it's mostly the AAA side of the industry doing it who are themselves imploding as we speak, and it involves games I mostly steer clear of. And I think by doing this they're yanking at wires while they're still plugged in and are going to end up breaking a lot of things.

[nocturne oasis]

imagine collecting 500 deku seeds then boom shrek racing

[cursive solar]

man im not going through this again, at the end of the day treating it like making almost every game playable at least offline single player at the end of life of a game is impossible, that sounds rediculous to say its impossible, there is absolutely a way to do that before launch, and that should absolutely be a factor for something your making for people to buy. just cause it adds to development cost or time, that means nothing, i sympathise for devs that its more work for them but thats their job, i sympathise for customers more

[thick ledge]

all ET carts need to be melted down for raw shrek material

[lunar moth]

Same thing for me and all of the MMOs I play

[wet storm]

Shrekified

[fluid dome]

Isn't the special edition of HD2 still unplayable in 130 countries or whatever

[thick ledge]

shrekification

[cursive solar]

and btw, im not including mmos in the talk

[thick ledge]

no they fixed it

afaik

[cursive solar]

mmos are alot more complicated

[thick ledge]

like really recently

[hardy ingot]

Issue is the initiative very much is 😄

[jolly sky]

Like I said, the oversimplification of game development by the casual audience is something that keeps on coming around. It is far harder than it may look

[thick ledge]

thats why thort stopped playing it for like a year

[spare topaz]

wait...hang on...you voted for it even though you think it would crash the system? why?

[thick ledge]

he boycotted til they unlocked sales

[calm locust]

I don't think Ross is doing this deliberately but maybe he just doesn't know about any examples of such games or didn't consider them? If someone explained this to him then maybe he'd come around

[cursive solar]

im explaining my thoughts now

[plucky quail]

Give me what i want because i want it is a bad reason

[fluid dome]

No, the base games is fixed yeah, I'm talking about the deluxe edition

[thick ledge]

i feel like triple A will implode soon on its own anyway

[calm locust]

I misspoke, I didn't "vote" for anything rather I just signed petitions

[thick ledge]

theyre repeatedly outsold by indies

[jolly sky]

It's like if I wanted to put forward an initiative for Free Water for All, coming from a tap or faucet in every mile of a country. I make the Initiative look really nice and labelled all the good things that would happen if it went through. Good idea right?

But I didn't think about about the infrastructure changes.

The plumbing of the water,
the Laws about what piping is needed,
the storing of the water,
the land that would needed to be dug up for the plumbing to go into
the design of the faucets etc.

And then someone pointed out all these future issues, and I got extremely mad and blamed them for trying to "kill the movement".

This is something akin to what the SKG Initiative looked like, and how it all went down.

[thick ledge]

and indies arnt doing stuff like this for the most part

[weak spindle]

Thort

[cursive solar]

brother i know that development can be complicated, ive worked on stuff, not massive but enough to know, you dont need to tell me

but thats the devs job

[green plank]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-nuh-uh-cat-car-gif-2061486685599830690

[lunar moth]

You don't really get to exclude genres when SKG want it to apply to all games to either a greater or lesser extent, so... you kinda have to know and understand MMOs and be willing to talk about it as well to be able to talk about it.

[spare topaz]

but...that means you signed the petition...im still curious, with all the concerns you just raised, why do so?

[fluid dome]

It's already imploding, what we're seeing is a red giant going supernova

[cursive solar]

im talking about my thoughts

[green plank]

this is me when people try to pull me into drama

[blissful imp]

Very nice youtube change for livestreams https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1937876536838729997?mx=1

Zach Bussey 🇨🇦 (@zachbussey)

Starting on July 22, 2025, YouTube is increasing the minimum age required to be able to live stream to 16+ years old.

X · Jun 25, 2025, 2:12 PM

[cursive solar]

ive said this to another guy already, keep up

[calm locust]

I don't understand what you mean? Where did I contradict myself?

[indigo wadi]

Thort

[thick ledge]

thort

[weak spindle]

thort

[fluid dome]

Throt

[plucky quail]

Thort

[cursive solar]

wort

[hardy ingot]

Well in his own video he goes over that he would not accept it only being limited to some types of games no matter what, but I'll try to find the timestamp, the video is long so it is a bit difficult to find 😄

[earnest mirage]

sounds like a mix of Gort and Thor. Someone please draw it 😄

[jolly sky]

I kinda wish they'd also bring that over to videos in general to be honest. Maybe it would cut down on the "Family channels" that are rife with bad shit

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-birthday-gif-6940819612197084157

[lunar moth]

Then refer me to it, where you said this, so I can keep up with it

[frozen nimbus]

Wort

DANG IT

INTERNET

[green plank]

just out of curiosity... why not 18...?

[frozen nimbus]

Rip

[fluid dome]

Pritae Seftorew

[weak spindle]

Gahhh the thort chain got broken

[vivid maple]

no we dont need that nightmare fuel

[weak spindle]

Boooo

[frozen nimbus]

That cuts off way too many

[spare topaz]

the initiative itself at present is trying to get signatories, meaning that any petition around it is going towards the final ECI signature count. Unless you and i have differing understandings of what a petition is (entirely possible, it is the internet after all) then that means youve become a signatory to the SKG initiative

[cursive solar]

well just for you, let me copy and paste my previous message, shall i?

[weak spindle]

Go back to thortposting

[green plank]

make it 30 😼

[minor nymph]

If you want to build an online game in that environment you would need to support that throughout the lifecycle of development. Online Only games are made or broken based on players demand for them. If the demand goes down then the game dies. You don't -really- know when/if this will happen but you can forecast for it and give a best guess.

This means that over the life-cycle of the game you will need to be constantly updating those releasable versions of the infrastructure. That means developer and tester time for every version of the game. Online games evolve over time it's generally the point of MMOs as an example of this.

That adds cost and pressure to every release and likely more hiring requirements to fill the need. A lot of smaller teams will just dip out as a result.

[frozen nimbus]

I sent my wort right after the last thort but my internet died

[indigo wadi]

69

[green plank]

only 30+ year olds may stream

[thick ledge]

yeah exactly, small teams could be crippled if they have to hire even 1 more person sometimes

[calm locust]

I signed a petition in Canada, which is where I am. It was mostly just to get a politician to look at the proposition of the movement and she deferred it to the provinces, said they had to legislate it. So it effectively made Canada a dead end for the movement

[hardy ingot]

That twitter reply came in handy I see 😄

[thick ledge]

some of these games run on insanely tight budgets and in the red

[frozen nimbus]

Only people aged 69 shall be allowed to stream

[fluid dome]

I remember getting the original PS4 that came bundled with Destiny, I believe you had to be online at all times for that.

[spare topaz]

[plucky quail]

The initiative clearly does leave any room for exclusion of any types of games or sizes of dev teams WHICH ONLY HURTS INDIE DEVS

[thick ledge]

also if anyone is looking for something interesting

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2941710/Project_Silverfish/

Steam

Project Silverfish

Project Silverfish is an immersive sim, FPS where you rely on your own wits and diverse sets of tools and weapons to survive!

Venture deep into a hostile and mysterious exclusion zone to hunt powerful artifacts, fight horrifying creatures and descend deeper into lost, cold-war era dungeons!…

Release Date

Jun 26, 2025

▶ Play video

[cursive solar]

i did exclude mmos from my opinion and what id like, what i referred to there was what id want

[thick ledge]

this has a demo now

[plucky quail]

Thats not what the initiative says though

[cursive solar]

(heres what i said) man im not going through this again, at the end of the day treating it like making almost every game playable at least offline single player at the end of life of a game is impossible, that sounds rediculous to say its impossible, there is absolutely a way to do that before launch, and that should absolutely be a factor for something your making for people to buy. just cause it adds to development cost or time, that means nothing, i sympathise for devs that its more work for them but thats their job, i sympathise for customers more

[thick ledge]

coming out to early access tomorrow

[weak spindle]

Is it like fallout new vegas

[jolly sky]

That includes any game that has an online, multiplayer component. Not just MMO's

[thick ledge]

ye and a bit like stalker

[spare topaz]

ah i understand now, thanks for the clarification - im curious, given the concerns you raised in your previous comment, if the petition was put before you again, would you still sign?

[thick ledge]

if you know stalker

[weak spindle]

Oooo

I've played a tiny bit of stalker

[thick ledge]

people are calling it furry stalker

[weak spindle]

Need to play more it looks cool

[fluid dome]

I don't actually care for FNV tbh

[thick ledge]

cuz you play as a like a mutant animal person

[green plank]

guys, guys... clearly only perfect video games are allowed to be made (and then no video game was ever made again as a consequence)

[weak spindle]

How dare you

[cursive solar]

im not defending the initiative right now, i was before, im explaining what id want, please at least try to understand that

[weak spindle]

I am so mad at you for not liking my favorite video game GRRRRRR

[thick ledge]

i get your expressing what youd like to see

[lunar moth]

I read that, but that's my point: you can't exclude a genre of games just because it is inconvenient to your opinion - regardless of whether you want to talk about it or not, when the implication of what you are talking about is covering all types of games.

[spare topaz]

I am in favour of more Kenshi, yes

[calm locust]

No because Canada's politicans are mostly just lazy old "pass the buck" types and our politics have sort of conditioned me to just not even bother lol

[thick ledge]

kenshi also good

[green plank]

kenshi is awesome lol

[thick ledge]

kenshi 2 is coming

[plucky quail]

Okay thats fair my bad

[thick ledge]

looking forward to that

[spare topaz]

rest assured, all politicians are like that

[green plank]

im excited for kenshi 2 i saw the devs talk some about it

[weak spindle]

God Kenshi is another game I gotta play

[plucky quail]

KENSHIII

[spare topaz]

I cant wait to see what Second Empire era kenshi looks like

[subtle frigate]

Would skg have saved flappy bird

[hardy ingot]

Kenshi is awesome

[thick ledge]

indie games are truly in a crazy renessaince theres 50000 good games to play

[fluid dome]

I was never that into Fallout anyway, I remember seeing people play it and only ever really playing Fallout 4 but ultimately couldn't get into it.

I'm the same with most Bethesda RPGs. They feel... samey

[hardy ingot]

I hope they don't mess up with Kenshi 2

[cursive solar]

right, ive explained what i would like to see going forward, it is what it is now

[vivid maple]

a pretty good reason to not support that movement. this shows you would need 10x the manpower just to even keep an online game active after its EoS

[hardy ingot]

All Kenshi needed was better optimization really and maybe MP one day 😄

[weak spindle]

Nah that's fair

I love em tho

Fallout 3 really sparked my love for that style of game and Bethesda RPGs in general

[thick ledge]

kenshi be like

[hardy ingot]

I have friends who love FO3 & 4 but couldn't get into New Vegas, so this is acceptable

[weak spindle]

But it's not for everyone just like any genre and that's okay!

[calm locust]

I wouldn't vote again but not because I have any issues with SKG's policies. In any case I figure it's a problem that'll eventually solve itself because I'm very much in favor of a AAA crash which we seem to be heading towards, so.

[small patio]

sounds like a lot of work, and a great idea

[jolly sky]

The only video I've seen from Kenshi is from Ssethtzeentach lmao

[minor nymph]

I believe I can explain the entire internet in a single post.

Don't fight for your ideals: "You're a pussy"
Do fight for your ideals: "Bro doubled down"

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/kenshi-hop-on-gif-860608118504459232

[spare topaz]

carefully thought out regs often are

[thick ledge]

simply grovel before me and i MAY give you my extremely valuable patronage back, worm

[fluid dome]

My interests kinda change like a polymorph so it's very much a lottery to what I like.

Though my bread and butter is survival horror and samurai games

[cursive solar]

i just really wish thor and ross would talk, whether in private or public, doesnt really matter, i get people say that ship has sailed but i dont think toxicity from each others fans is an excuse, but look, at the end of the day it is up to thor and ross on if they want to talk

[plucky quail]

At the end of the day an initiative like this needs polish and understanding from EVERYBODY it effects which includes devs it shouldnt be us vs them it should be a collaberation to improve the industry and thats just not what it currently is

[small patio]

im glad to have seen some really interesting thought processes in here, thanks yall

[zenith summit]

toxic fans ruin everything

[hardy ingot]

Fighting for your ideals? You goddamn narcissist!

[cursive solar]

true

[thick ledge]

👍 feel free to stick around, we are pretty cool

[small patio]

ive been here for 6 monthsish

just lurkin

[cursive solar]

its just another excuse to not talk to each other

[thick ledge]

oooh ok

[flat moat]

Thank you for not giving up. It took a while but I'm glad the points you brought up are now recognized.

[small patio]

man people love drama

[fluid dome]

Everyone here should play the og Resident Evil games. So good.

[thick ledge]

people LOVEEE drama

dude when i was a kid i watched someone play resident evil

[hardy ingot]

Only played RE2 remake unfortunately but it became one of my favorite games 😄

[thick ledge]

and for years my brain mashed together the opening fight in parasite eve with the final boss in resident evil 2

[weak spindle]

I gotta play the resident evil games

[thick ledge]

and made up like a fake combo game

[spare topaz]

fight the good fight, my dude - you're not alone, and we're all here for you

[weak spindle]

I never played any of em

[vivid maple]

thanks for explaining that all. just wish people would learn to see it from your point of view instead of being idiots

[hardy ingot]

I could never play the originals since tank controls are very much not for me and I am not touching a console with a 10 meter pole

[frozen nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/shia-labeouf-clapping-theatre-gif-15313749163340250467

[small patio]

which is why i loved secret level - half the episodes were incredible and the other half were awful and i ping ponged between them with friends watching with me and we had a blast going from making fun of the show to praising it

[nocturne oasis]

loved the playthroughs my siblings and I had with the RE series way back when

[hardy ingot]

well I did play RE3 remake as well but I do my best to erase that from memory

[teal zodiac]

i honestly LOVE drama, but this one became dull and weird very fast. The personal attacks and the steam reviews were such a low point

[spare topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/beep-gif-24476531

[cursive solar]

i would just like to see stuff resolved if they can be, its a cool movement if things get corrected and clarified more, i think its genuinely something that everyone could get behind but instead people want to do nothing with it. i believe after this initiative, there wont be anything like this for a while

[fluid dome]

Thor should marathon the RE games for a subathon challenge

@minor nymph

[thick ledge]

all entertaining beef should be about nonsense

[frozen nimbus]

The steam reviews make me really upset

[thick ledge]

like marmalade

[fluid dome]

Also my fursona has emotes now, so take that nerds

[nocturne oasis]

Thor does not really do jumpscare games from my time here

[plucky quail]

Tbh i dont think a conversation between them would even be productive the more i think about it. Like ross's stance is "we will figure it out later" and thats just entirely opposed to what thor is sayong

[thick ledge]

marmalade, gods cruel joke on spreadable goop

[frozen nimbus]

Your marmalade is lame and weird

L

[cursive solar]

the attacks mostly came from fans

[small patio]

@spare topaz what's your discordd pirate role?

[hardy ingot]

I could get behind select few points of the initiative, but not even 25% of it

[thick ledge]

same

[teal zodiac]

ye, but its part of the drama itself

[cursive solar]

thats why i think talking between them should happen, but thats just my opinion

[thick ledge]

and maybe they will, in private

they dont ever have to share that they did

[cursive solar]

it shouldnt be cause they both can only do so much about it

[gloomy forge]

Thor saying it how it is but I feel that shit goes much deeper. like brainrot from social media existed before tiktok even 10 years ago. Once people associated a specific thing with a easy to digestible creed, like lets say associating a certain type of food with politics, its over ... its so over and it works with everything as well.

[spare topaz]

i....can't remember - i came here from the twitch channel, and have been mostly lurking for about a year now

[thick ledge]

cuz ultimately, its none of our buisness lol

[hardy ingot]

Well absolutely if there was to be an initiative ever that COULD actually work, devs and consumers both need to be involved in the discussion

[fluid dome]

Expedition 33 looks sick af, I just wish I could play it but sadly I don't have the hardware

[hardy ingot]

But that should've happened before any initiative got started

[thick ledge]

i heard game pass is pretty good for this, cuz you can stream the games

[cursive solar]

we wont know tho unless it happens, and i dont see a negative to it other than maybe wasted time

[spare topaz]

1000% agree on this

[zenith summit]

geforce now isnt bad if you only want to play the odd graphically heavy game

[green plank]

i feel like, none of this is actually about the movement or videogames

not really]

[plucky quail]

Yeah but also WE are not entitled to that

[gloomy forge]

of course it isn't

[jolly sky]

Oi you, give this a watch as some well earned downtime, and maybe a pallet cleanser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUST9RonBoU&

[fluid dome]

I'm also tryna save money and idk if I wanna save for Ps5 or a Rog Ally

[thick ledge]

thor and ross arnt clowns on a stage to dance for us, they just dudes

[green plank]

like i understand the utility in keeping it focused on that

[small patio]

seconded, good service

[plucky quail]

Thor has a life and other things going on the only reason he brought this back up is because people are attacking him