streamchat

[charred wolf]

That sounds fair

[unkempt mason]

Frfr

[brazen drift]

"clapping back" wasn't really the answer tho

[hardy ingot]

If it wasn't drama farming people would be making videos to support the initiative, not to attack Thor

[green plank]

i actually dont know if asmongold said anything but im speculating based on behavior patterns

[thick ledge]

Yeah

[teal zodiac]

i mean...i honestly love drama but this is just so childish and poorly sustained. Aside from the agressive attacks on personal work/projects

[flint raft]

I’m gonna be real, I feel like this is going to blow over in a couple of weeks and everyone will move on.
Then in a few years people will bring it up again then rinse and repeat

[dusty mist]

nod nod
And it's sad that this is what they are advocating for currently.

[thick ledge]

Where was moist critical 10 months ago to support the initiative

[charred wolf]

Asmond is 100% always drama farming, it's literally his job

[hardy ingot]

oh yeah by the end of the week noone will mention it

[tight bramble]

Og no cap

[thick ledge]

Bow that there's tea mudahar and Charlie wanna get involved

[dusky grove]

Look, i hate League as much as the next guy, but SKG shutting down all live service games seems a bit much

[charred wolf]

I don't even mean this as an insult, the guy owns it.

[unkempt mason]

I hope it'll blow over. People still haven't forgotten the WoW thing. 😭

[thick ledge]

It's disingenuous view farming

[blissful imp]

2nd quote tweet is a death threat

[hardy ingot]

Then Asmongold is going to make a 3 hour reaction that he releases after the drama already passed, it's going to be discussed for 3 days and forgotten again

[green plank]

yea i mean 20,000$+ per month will do that lol

[dusty mist]

Anyway, thank ya'll for the contructive and insightful discussions you had with me! ^w^

[jovial sandal]

Its not even clear whether Charlie has even watched Thor's take, or if his full knowledge of Thor's position is what little of it Ross had in his video

[jaunty vine]

We do all agree that even if SKG could work, we just let League die. Like, don't save that cesspool.

[brazen drift]

Yeah its all just drama farming. If thor put out a video 10 months ago and then signatures started dwindling, then Ross should have reached out to creators THEN to try and keep it going instead of saying "reaching out to big creators wont do anything"

[spring kettle]

That’s not what it does though? It just means they have to provide a build to the community after they shut it down

[charred wolf]

Charlie seems more concerned about what skg wants rather than what it is

[wintry pond]

I have not seen any other developer comment on this. So thor speaking from the side that is silent, yea he will get backlash, since people dont care to look at it from other side, they only care about themselves.

[unkempt mason]

I watched a bit of Charlie's video, and from what I saw, he didn't. Only showed Accursed Farm's video clips.

[lunar moth]

No worries!

Hope you have a good day!
Personally I'm going to go and have my wizard blow themselves up a few times in Noita I feel like after today's amount of drama, and also get some hot chocolate to drink!

[dry osprey]

Think about the post about idk 20 years ago? Drama farming

[thick ledge]

If these huge creators actually support the initiative and arnt just view farming, they'd have supported it before now

[hardy ingot]

I somewhat doubt he even fully watched Ross's given he makes some contrary claims

[jolly sky]

Thank you for also being the same and accepting of other viewpoints, you're among a rare few

[dry osprey]

Pathetic people trying to cling to every attention they can

[dusty mist]

Good luck! ^w^

[unkempt mason]

✨ true therapy✨

[hardy ingot]

That was one very unfortunate misspell 😄

[thick ledge]

You can always find that here

[jolly sky]

Lmao yes a quick edit was needed

[lunar moth]

This is my favourite screenshot to date: Glass Canon + Nuke!

[thick ledge]

It's just the kind of environment thor has cultivated

[dusty mist]

You're welcome!

[flint raft]

It’s just a hot topic because the big dogs like Charlie are talking about it, I love Charlie through and through but he’s unintentionally started heavy drama before ( he owns up to it when it happens ) one time he had to say “don’t go and hate on them on my behalf, I don’t want you to” because something was blown out of proportion by mistake.

[lunar moth]

I did manage to turn the world to acid via eating mushrooms earlier also... my wizard melted when trying to get to the next temple

[brazen drift]

I also believe people are incredibly biased since thor IS such a large and successful streamer who does a lot of good that he HAS to have some negative darkside to exploit, which i guess in this instance is his confidence and that he doesnt roll over when people attack him.

[thick ledge]

One of the most civil corners of the internet lol

[blissful imp]

NOBODY has watched thors 2 videos from 10 months ago.

they've only seen the short clips from Ross's video and automatically think Thor purposely was trying to sabotage SKG.

Do i need to show this again...

[green plank]

yea i usally like watching him to, but he went it HIGHLY ignorantly this time

[thick ledge]

Yes people can't stand a good person with no dark side

[green plank]

like braindead charlie i mean

[teal zodiac]

Can we just Kill All Games already? we had a good run, its enough, lets try another hobby

[warped venture]

real

[blissful imp]

All you gotta do is read the replies and quote tweets

[flint raft]

He’s probably going to make a new video talking about it since Thor made a tweet about the situation

[tight bramble]

We got close in the 80s

[jolly sky]

And all the people who think that Thor never accepts criticism and only thinks he is right, the environment that a lot people follow here is as direct result of Thor also following the same polite discussions that a lot of us do.

If you're here to start flinging shit from the sidelines and that's it, you aren't deserving of a polite discussion, or your stay here.

[wintry pond]

yea, we should just kill all games and go touch grass and cement

[nova bough]

D&D.

[dry osprey]

Like i mentioned earlier.

PEOPLE DONT READ
PEOPLE DONT LISTEN
PEOPLE DONT THINK

They just a bunch of mindless follower

[thick ledge]

Again, I believe Ross stirred this intentionally. And I won't be supporting his activities from now on

[blissful imp]

MODERN INTERNET USERS

[thick ledge]

Shut it all down

[flint raft]

Something similar happened when he talked about idubbz and he didn’t have a lot of info on the situation at the time.

[thick ledge]

No more video games

[frozen nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/xxiisoul-thanos-gif-23843096

[hardy ingot]

I mean penguinz0 is pretty good creator but he is absolutely focused on drama

[wary drift]

But... But we can keep Pong at least, right?
Pong's been good!
He's been Loyal!

[dry osprey]

Facts

[thick ledge]

We are going back to magic the gathering

[green plank]

just gonna casually drop a vid name dropping another content creator (with an entire workforce) to my audience of 17 million people :D

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/come-here-boy-dog-old-yeller-disney-gif-10895179

[dusky grove]

And what comes next after that. Say those live servive games do provide a zombie build when it dies.

Themepark MMOs have limited content unless they have a very active pvp zone. MOBAs can never be balanced and it'll eventually become an over optimized boring mess. Shooters dont get new maps. Etc etc.

Some genres cant survive on 1 patch forever

[green plank]

cause this is what a smart person does right?

[flint raft]

I feel like once he gets more info on it he’ll make a clearer stance on the situation

[hardy ingot]

When I saw Ross mention that he'd like big creator to take notice and support them, and saw Moist on the screen, I knew if any of them was going to it was going to be him

[tribal nest]

You know, I do appreciate it when people accuse Thor of ‘never changing his opinion’, because it makes it very easy to see which people clearly have never watched one of his streams, and thus don’t know what they’re talking about.

[teal zodiac]

you can have Ping Pong, the 3d version of Pong, aka Table Tennis

[brazen drift]

which is WILD because Thor absolutely has flaws since hes a human being, like everyone else.

[flint raft]

Unfortunately it gave me mama max flashbacks

[charred wolf]

I've met actual narcissists, Thor does not have NPD and trying to say he is narcissistic is not only wrong but incredibly degrading to a personality disorder.

[hardy ingot]

I still don't think so because he doesn't really understand the other perspective and it's really hard for people that already heard one opinion to consider what the other side is like

[brazen drift]

i live with a narcissist!

:'D

[dry osprey]

And then devs try to make how the players want. Players complain because its like old game. Dev confused

[thick ledge]

Personally, I love mmos, I love that they can be a breathing experience, example, in everquest, there was this ancient dragon that burst free, and the players tried to stop him, he swept the floor with them and changed the game world forever

[blissful imp]

i find the timing that Ross's video came out right when Thor was going to play The Division 2 on stream a little suspicious.

[thick ledge]

That's awesome and unique to mmos

[hardy ingot]

I'm a fkin narcissist

[spring kettle]

But they are still playable. And that’s the point. After it gets shut down its on the community to do private servers and such, it not only the devs anymore. The important part is that it’s still playable.

[wary drift]

NO
The Table in Table Tennis is Green, because it's a reference to the grass old school Tennis used to be played on
I WILL NOT TOUCH GRASS

[dry osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/piratesoftware-thor-i-hate-you-internet-gif-4950465273846404545

[thick ledge]

It's a game experience you can ONLY have in mmos, live happenings you get to say you were there for

[green plank]

let me put it this way, if people view thor as a little egocentric, that same thing has GOT to be applied to chalie (especially that last 2 years or so)

[wintry pond]

I mean, same

[minor nymph]

https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1937955256933274084

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

@accursedfarms Twitch VoDs auto-delete after 60 days. Any Stream going over 12 hours of runtime on YouTube is auto-cutoff and then deleted at 16 hours of runtime due to their shitty storage system.

What you've proposed here is untrue and a deflection from my message.

X · Jun 25, 2025, 7:25 PM

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/we-got-him-we-got-em-gif-21922291

[jolly sky]

I've literally talked to Thor directly in a VC room here in the server, as a casual, normal member. Not a mod, not anyone of special interest, just a regular dude, and even we've had polite back and forths where we've both agreed with each others points and come to understand each others perspectives.

[flint raft]

What’s wild is that this is actually a similar-ish situation to when mama max demanded all the big YouTubers to take his side

[jaunty vine]

I do understand it's not meant LLMs. Because those are weird at best and absolutely trash at worst. Like see Neuro-sama compared to ChatGPT for kinda what I mean (that said if Neuro-sama is despised because she uses a LLM, fair I say). I'm interested in citation about the controller entity in games, though I can think of L4D and L4D2 admittedly. Though then in the Helldivers 2 case, why would you have a GM? Why have this gigantic map where engagements can take place in several places at once and hundreds if not thousands of players are to respond? At that point, shrink the scale so you don't need to spend that money, now or later when you sunset. So the experience as we have it now doesn't seem practical or feasible anymore, y'know?

And in those cases of MMOs, sure. But they're already a giant financial risk, so SKG would just make that an even bigger risk because now you have to plan for sunset. Which again, is going to devote a ton of time, and a ton of resources. NTM added content means more time planning for sunset, so more time and resources. Which might just accelerate a game's death, making it even riskier and less feasible.

(If the convo's done that's fine. I just didn't want to leave this point hanging.)

[thick ledge]

Love Ross immediately attacking you

Like I said, he's intentionally shit stirring

[green plank]

charlie on streams has regularly made highly confident claims about X game sucks, Y game is good, in the same confident way thor does

[thick ledge]

To farm engagement for the petition

[brazen drift]

i cant see any twitter replies cuz i deleted it

[green plank]

i just dont like hypocrisy, apply the logic to all creators not one lmao

[wary drift]

It's better this way.
Enjoy it.

[frozen sonnet]

He does the same with his movie reviews

And most of the time he is wrong

[sterile nexus]

It isnt vague though, it outlines exactly what it intends to. and it isn't a throwaway slogan. if you look on Ross channel Accursed farms going back 15 some years he has videos on dead games. this is his focus in life and has been for a long time. "stop killing games" is something hes said in his video about games dying off since back then. the clear goal in mind is that if a consumer buys a game they should be able to play it in some capacity for as long as they preserve thier copy of that data (disk, cartridge, installed data, etc). an extreme example would be someone purchasing the game and the next day happens to be shutdown day. they actually just bought nothing. extreme example but it illustrates the problem clearly.

[flint raft]

Charlie is a good guy but yeah he doesn’t always have the facts

[green plank]

yea and its like, THATS FINE, have opinions lol

[wintry pond]

do I even want to know what happens on twitter? I deleted it from my life for a reason

[pine isle]

What's to stop companies from interfering somewhere in the discussion process in between the initiative and the final law?

[frozen sonnet]

Correct

[dry osprey]

I wonder if people saw thors post earlier

[brazen drift]

Yeah it is.

[green plank]

but people are saying some people are allowed to have an opinion and others arnt

[minor nymph]

Ross Responded to my post claiming I deleted the vods for the days I read his post off.
This is a lie and he lacks a basic understanding of how vods work.
https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1937955256933274084

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

@accursedfarms Twitch VoDs auto-delete after 60 days. Any Stream going over 12 hours of runtime on YouTube is auto-cutoff and then deleted at 16 hours of runtime due to their shitty storage system.

What you've proposed here is untrue and a deflection from my message.

X · Jun 25, 2025, 7:25 PM

[flint raft]

Do you like endless streams of arguments and politics?

[teal zodiac]

no no no, there is NO WAY this needs to be unironically explained

[charred wolf]

Joy.

[flint raft]

😬 oh this is gonna be a ride huh

[wary drift]

I appreciate that you assume he just doesn't know.

[tribal nest]

As a reminder for people, coming from an actual professional psychiatrist (not me), one of the biggest indicators that someone is a narcissist is that they will fully admit to it, because they see it as a good thing.

[thick ledge]

I think steps can be taking for a middle ground here, a disclaimer saying this game will eventually shut down, pulling the game from store shelves if a shutdown is coming, requiring a 1 year warning on shutdown

[flint raft]

Maybe he doesn’t

[thick ledge]

Saying it shouldn't exist is too far

[hardy ingot]

Well as he stated under several videos on youtube on the matter, attacking you got him more signatures than anything else he tried, so of course he's going to keep farming that

[minor nymph]

Show me these posts

[jolly sky]

And like what has been said, "they should be able to play it in some capacity for as long as they preserve thier copy of that data (disk, cartridge, installed data, etc)"

Is fundamentally impossible due the way a lot of games have been designed for around the experience.

If you pass that through as is, you get less, or possibly even none of those games that millions of people enjoy

[thick ledge]

One of my favorite kinds of games are live experiences and I don't want to lose that

[dry osprey]

Maybe he needs a video tutorial to understand that

[teal zodiac]

i mean, on the other hand its really good to have the opportunity to say this so it doesnt hover in anyone's mind, specially for those who doesnt know how vods work

[flint raft]

I’ve been around narcissists and that is 100% true

[teal zodiac]

its good

[thick ledge]

Yeah can you link?

[hardy ingot]

First one that I have open atm from SomeOrdinaryGamers' video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmU5gcttf1c

[minor nymph]

That's hardly him saying he wants to cause drama.

[flint raft]

Oh what?
That’s…I wanna say some words but I can’t here

[thick ledge]

You could read that, but it's not explicitly stating that

[flint raft]

Oh

[thick ledge]

So plausible deniability minimum

[hardy ingot]

It's not, but it is saying it got him a lot more signatures than anything else, so I'm just saying of course he's going to keep going if it worked so well

[spring kettle]

My take on this is that both are correct. Thor is correct that it needs to be more legally clearly written, Ross is correct that Thor initially misrepresented what the initiative was about, even if unintentionally.

I think both sides have just responded to the other very poorly. Thor’s response comes off as aggressive rather than constructive, and instead of correcting misconceptions in the replies his responses are just fanning the flames.
Ross’s response is also aggressive and is clearly done to farm drama in order to get more eyes on SKG as a whole.

I really think a lot of things would be sorted out if they just sat down and talked.

[flint raft]

Hey Thor besides this stuff going on are you doing okay?

[dusky grove]

Technically yes, but in spirit the game will die anyway. Can you honestly sit down and tell me that if League was forever stuck in season 4, or if Overwatch was stuck in double shield meta, or WoW was stuck in Cataclysm, or you could only play dust 2 mirage and cache in CS. Do you honestly think that game would survive?

I can say that there have been few cases where it has happened that a game lasts YEARS without balance changes (smash melee comes to mind despite it not being live service). But just because something CAN be played doesn't mean it will.

I'm all for preservation of games, but a game is more than just its code. If you want to prove me wrong, boot up a dead MMO and tell me that its still fun without the players flooding the map.

[brazen drift]

Yeah, in the video he put out the other day he said that he had nothing left to lose so he was making this video debunking thors video, which IMO means he KNEW it would stirr up drama

[flint raft]

Heat wave is in full effect where you’re at from what I heard so just making sure you’re being safe

[thick ledge]

It's not him explicitly stating it though

[brazen drift]

yeah

[thick ledge]

If he publicly said "I'm shitstirring" it'd be pretty undenyable

[wintry pond]

but why wait 10 months to debunk a misinterpretation?

[flint raft]

Because

[jovial sandal]

If you look at that post charitably, no, its not him saying that he wants to stir drama. And I can definitely understand wanting to hold back to avoid accusing that

[charred wolf]

I think he just wants more signatures based on these comments

[thick ledge]

Because he IS shitstirring, he's just keeping plausible deniablitity

[brazen drift]

He apparently does have a bachelors in Law so

[frozen nimbus]

Oh caught up with some stuff

[jaunty vine]

If he does, hoo boy that initiative does not show it.

[thick ledge]

Which again. I won't be supporting anything he does anymore

Ross is american

[polar sandal]

The initiative is basically scratching out an idea on a napkin, it's not even a law draft

[thick ledge]

It's European law

[brazen drift]

Thats what i told my friend. I read through some of it and I was like man, this doesnt read right

[wintry pond]

wait

[hardy ingot]

Absolutely, I wasn't meaning to say he said he'd keep causing drama, what I meant is that the reaction to Thor worked so well so it makes sense for him to keep at it

[wintry pond]

hes not from eu?

[charred wolf]

Doesn't he own that, though?

[balmy bone]

Wait, what?

[teal zodiac]

"shitstirring" , another new term that i learned today

[thick ledge]

So his law education kind of doesn't apply

[frozen nimbus]

I was about to say what does that have to do with anything

[flint raft]

If it turns out that he is shitstirring and just wanting signatures the internet is going to rip him apart

[tribal nest]

Wasn’t he Danish or something?

[polar sandal]

what
wdym

[spring kettle]

I agree! But devs cannot support a game forever. In this case I believe the next best thing is to hand it over to the community, and not let it become unplayable entirely.

[charred wolf]

Like "yeah, it's rough and flimsy but we gotta get this movement off the ground first"

[balmy bone]

https://youtube.fandom.com/wiki/Accursed_Farms

[jagged birch]

Heck, I'm tired of those dramas, WTF people are so dumb?

[thick ledge]

American machinima creator

He's american

[rare dome]

I know when the SKG video Ross made first came out I didn't think it really worked for what the real problem was, but then I completely ignored it so hearing all this is insane

[lunar moth]

I'm going to go and play Noita now, but to put it bluntly:
It going back 15 years only makes it sound more like a slogan of his, regardless of whether he's passionate for his slogan or not.

Games aren't dying off and that's it. The most he could ever argue for is that games as services should be classified as such, but that goes counter to literally everything he said in his 1 hour long video where he whined about Thor. I said it earlier:

"He is arguing for games like World of Warcraft to have an expiration date "because it can continue indefinitely, but can also be terminated at any point" - which is a clause that exists because online games are finnicky and if players stop playing the game altogether, they can stop providing the server infrastructure for players to play the game. Welcome to why this is a monetary argument that Scott is completely ignoring because to do so would be to admit that Thor's point from 10 months ago are entirely valid."

Scott quite literally just has a slogan he's trying to turn into an initiative in order to, effectively, ban online games.
Now I'm going to go off and explode in Noita.

[jaunty vine]

My fiance and I were talking about this last night. Not necessarily the "he has a law degree" part, but more he's an American... Why is he pushing for an EU law to pass through? Like, that seems sus as heck.

[flint raft]

Wait wait, he worked for machinema or made his own?

[thick ledge]

He's just doing the European petition cuz he said he thinks they're more likely to do what he wants

[dusk pine]

just want to poke into this rapidly scrolling chat to give a little love to Thor and the mods. Because I think y'all deserve it 🫂

[thick ledge]

He made his own

[tribal nest]

That is insanely sus

[balmy bone]

I don't know

[jaunty vine]

AFAIK he made his own. Though I think Freeman's Mind appeared on Machinima (official).

[balmy bone]

All it says here is that he's American. Why is he trying to pass EU laws?

[flint raft]

I was gonna say that Lyle Wrath could have input about his character since he was one of the main guys who worked for machinema

[thick ledge]

What manafa said

[green plank]

didnt mutahar do a podcast for multiple years with the guy that was really into shadman art and shared odd anime pics with him 🫤 hm, well anyway

[sterile nexus]

agreed , these would be good steps. as of now I dont think there is any standard or enforcable requirement though. would be excited to be proven wrong though.

[tribal nest]

Wait, so SKG really just boils down to two Americans disagreeing over how an EU law should be implemented?

[hardy ingot]

Basically, by his own words, it's easier to push it in EU, and he's trying it basically anywhere he can, there's also UK initiative

[gloomy forge]

@wintry pond Because jumping in on the drama, kick your opponent down further while he is weak and that gains further traction. People need an enemy (for no reason that is).

While I think Ross is not quite doing that, it unfortunately always snowballs into drama in this way.

I'm a firm believer that good things that are widespread will succseed and bad things won't. If SKG fails than its simply a bad proposal and should be reorganized. Now that more people know about the initiative, we will see whats gonna be true.

[thick ledge]

He's trying to pass EU laws because he thinks it's easier

[charred wolf]

Because he believes that's where change can actually occur

[indigo wadi]

misrepresented? then it was poorly worded to begin with.

[rare dome]

American producers tend to follow EU laws so they can sell there

[balmy bone]

But he can't even sign his own petition?

[thick ledge]

Idk why an American can start an eu petition

Tbh

[flint raft]

how would passing a law be easier?

[thick ledge]

He cannot no

[teal zodiac]

its barelly a petition tho

[thick ledge]

Idk he thinks the EU legislature is more impressionable

[velvet sedge]

iirc wasn't there a point made about the eu being more consumer protection oriented, as such the law is more likely to pass there, and from there it could just roll out globally, kinda like other big eu ruling?

[jaunty vine]

Yeah my fiance an I are aware. We think that's sus as hell. Because if it got into law but were to backfire - and it very well could - it may result in the EU getting shafted of some game releases.

[jovial sandal]

Technically, I think someone else has submitted it on his behalf

[fluid dome]

The funny thing here is that practically all of the creators commenting on this on both sides are mostly American with the exception of muta who is canadian and Josh who is a brit.

The ONLY one of these people who can even sign the damn thing is Josh

[brazen drift]

Nah, honestly I appreciate him putting it through Euro Laws because he is at least right about that. The USA isn't gonna pass any of those laws especially right now, but the EU DOES care about those sort of consumer things, and if the EU implements it then it absolutely COULD have trickle down benefits for the rest of the world.

[indigo wadi]

talking is out the window. Ross has proven he does not care to talk.

[flint raft]

[hardy ingot]

wonder if it allowed his signature if he started it as an American 🤔

[charred wolf]

I see no real reason against it, EU has always welcomed external help

[thick ledge]

I believe he hired 2 lawyers to run it in Europe for him

[dusky grove]

I can see it as like a time capsule piece, and thats prolly the only way I'd be comfy with forcing devs to do this. A swansong of "Remember us" but it then begs the question of what to immortalize? The last patch? The patch with the best balance? The one with the most players?

If you do an older patch, if its even possible, how about reworks? Events? Cosmetics? In game shops? Ryze from league has had like 5 different versions over the years, which would be included there? All of them? The best winrate? The one that lasted the longest?

[charred wolf]

Again, I'm not a LAWYER

[brazen drift]

But I feel like, if you're going to start a EU Petition, that you should probably have some EU Citizens involved in the gaming sphere to like. Promote it

[flint raft]

but wouldn’t it be easier to get signatures instead of passing something into law?

[brazen drift]

since nobody outside of the EU can vote for it

[spring kettle]

Ross has repeatedly asked to talk though? Thor has said no.

[brazen drift]

Why promote something in the US that nobody can vote on

[flint raft]

From what I’ve seen neither of them have reached out

[brazen drift]

wheres jacksepticeye

[exotic locust]

He's a citizen of Poland.

[jolly sky]

It's like if I wanted to put forward an initiative for free water for all, coming from a tap or faucet in every mile of a country. I make the Initiative look really nice and labelled all the good things that would happen if it went through. Good idea right?

But I didn't think about about the infrastructure changes.

The plumbing of the water,
the Laws about what piping is needed,
the storing,
the land that would needed to be dug up for the plumbing to go into
the design of the faucets

And so on and so on.

This is something akin to what the SKG Initiative looked.

[rare dome]

Maybe he has EU viewers

[thick ledge]

Ross wants to talk cuz it'll promote the thing further

[minor nymph]

He actually had no idea how VoDs work.
https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1937958488065675768

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

@accursedfarms Here are all the videos from that time period. As you can see they all cut off at 11:55, are missing, or show times of 20+ hours. When streaming over 16 hours VoDs will routinely disappear or go into a broken state.

That broken state causes them to be a black screen and they

X · Jun 25, 2025, 7:38 PM

[flint raft]

Where’s Sean when you need him!

[balmy bone]

ah, thank you.

[forest epoch]

Ross?

[sterile nexus]

I dont think we would lose those live experiences. I honestly dont think that would be the result of legislation borne of this intiative but i know many here do think so. i would also hate to see those experiences not happen. and I dont think this intiative would result in legislative that would kill off those experiences.

[exotic locust]

Correct

[flint raft]

Oh…this is gonna get bumpy fast huh

[green plank]

yea and if i have a crush on a girl and i repeatedly ask her to speak with me shes obligated right? (think about this 💁‍♀️ )

[covert jetty]

@thick ledge Do you have proof that he is an american citizen living in America? Being american doesn't mean he doesn't live in the EU or doesn't have an EU nationality or isn't an EU citizen, and going further, this might not even be up to date, his status could be different

[hardy ingot]

Look, he only has 18 years of experience on youtube, cut him some slack

[green plank]

wanting to speak to a person does not entitle you to speaking

[brazen drift]

clearly he doesnt have enough of them if he needs to start drama

[thick ledge]

I don't know where Ross lives no, and if I did, sharing it would be doxxing him

Lmao

[flint raft]

Brooo the way that just made me laugh

[jolly sky]

It would because due the Copyright and IP law threats, they wouldn't make the game in the first place.

[balmy bone]

Thor, do you have the receipts showing your claim that the Accursed Farm community wanted more drama to drum up signatures?

[forest epoch]

Huh, him doing all this makes even less sense now

[spring kettle]

This is a ridiculous comparison. I agree he does not need to speak, I simply think a lot of the drama could be resolved if they do.

[thick ledge]

Thor never claimed that

I did

And it's speculation

[flint raft]

That is true, you can offer an open dialogue but it’s up to the other person to accept it

[green plank]

yea

[rare dome]

Yea that was speculated and Thor asked for more info

[charred wolf]

I suppose you can be a citizen of multiple countries

[hardy ingot]

Oh no, you can absolutely talk to them.. just don't hold your breath for a reply necessarily 😄

[charred wolf]

I got dual citizenship myself

[frozen nimbus]

Same

[thick ledge]

I think Poland allows you to get citizenship relatively easily?

[flint raft]

I hear you can get triple residency

[thick ledge]

Could have applied for it to start the petition

[dusky grove]

But to counterpoint. Another form of maturity is walking away and moving on. To hold onto a rope while it flays your skin is good sometimes, but bad others

[green plank]

i feel like this is also the logic people apply to abusive relationships lol "LISTEN IF YOUD JUST ANSWER THE PHONE WE CAN RESOLVE THIS 🤬"

[flint raft]

Like three citizenships

[balmy bone]

not the issue. don't speculate

[green plank]

its like, no we will not speak (:

[dusky grove]

And this is 10 months old

[thick ledge]

...why not?

[covert jetty]

Then you cannot attest that he doesn't have the right to start this initiative, since he could be an EU citizen without you knowing, and in that case, you would be speculating. Just wanted to set the record straight since people were starting to believe Ross wasn't en EU citizen. He did mention previously he was en EU citizen, don't know if he stated the country though, would have to dig further

[hardy ingot]

Just have someone perform penetration test on Poland citizenship, we'll see!

[balmy bone]

cuz you're better than that.

[frozen sonnet]

You’re so smart kendo, no wonder you killed all the games

[forest epoch]

It's not that easy to get a Polish citizenship, but what I meant is that Poland was one of the biggest countries protesting againt ACTA and ACTA II, we don't really like EU politicians messing with things dear to us. But maybe he doesn't really have that much of a connection to Poland

[thick ledge]

I'm not interested in digging into his life

[flint raft]

I mean why bring the government into gaming?
Do you want them to overly regulate things?

[thick ledge]

That's an invasion of privacy

[charred wolf]

Hmm, I see

[smoky grail]

I am not a fan of the government
Get them away from my video games

[teal zodiac]

depends on the countries. Some allow you to have multiple citizenships while others demand exclusivity

[sterile nexus]

good luck in Noita, may your explosions be numerous and in your favor.

Some games are dead and Ross has records of them. The Crew being one of the most notable. its dead. you cant play it anymore and neither can anyone else. thats the situation all of this is working to prevent

[thick ledge]

I was just bringing up that he is American, idk where he lives now,

[jovial sandal]

If I'm reading the petition correctly, it was not submitted by Ross, it was submitted by a Daniel.

[flint raft]

Ohhh okay that makes a lot of sense

[charred wolf]

If he's open about it, is it an invasion?

[balmy bone]

to assure fair practice for both consumer and industry. its over due. but not like this

[thick ledge]

Yes he has lawyers who filed for him

[flint raft]

Yeah that’s uh…that wouldn’t work that way, look at how governments view games like COD and GTA

[fluid dome]

Asking for government to actually get off their ass and do anything is like trying to parallel park with a reversing dump truck. It ain't happening

[brazen drift]

If, for example, Ross lived in Florida i dont think its doxxing to say he lives in Florida. now a full street address would be

[thick ledge]

Also problem: with the petition there's no garentee they do what you actually even want

[warm trench]

Something like this in the USA would be at minimum called foreign influence. Depending on who, it can be non-issue to getting thrown in jail.

[hardy ingot]

We've had Veilguard, now imagine if government regulations got involved 😄

[flint raft]

Oh for sure

[charred wolf]

Governments are fine about gta nowadays, no?

[dusky grove]

I'll just say, to everyone saying "Why don't they just talk it out" If they were gonna talk about it, they wouldve done it 10 months ago when this stuff started.

Doing it NOW is just plain dumb because its benefits are too miniscule and too late to matter

[forest epoch]

This is why SKG is pretty much dead here, even without Thor's influence many Poles see it as something bad bc government

[charred wolf]

Gaming, social media, and tech as a whole has become both mainstream and normalized

[flint raft]

Nope, they still think violent games make people violent

[jaunty vine]

The difference between just a fun fact and PPI, would be is it in context?

[brazen drift]

and its not like british people can without dual citizen ship which is probably a pretty BIG sphere of gamers that may not be able to vote for it either

[thick ledge]

Also yeah why do people think thor, and English speaking streamer has an inordinate influence on a continent that mostly doesn't speak english

[flint raft]

Gotta remember super old people run governments and they get stuck in their ways

[fluid dome]

In my school, in like, young years, they used to have us sit in a circle and we'd only be allowed to speak if we held the talking stick. The Internet would benefit a lot from this I feel.

[thick ledge]

Afaik most of European countries speak European languages and can't even understand thor

[pine isle]

Except for the fact that industry will, 10 times out of 10, out-lobby the consumer. Getting government involved can only screw over the consumer.

[hardy ingot]

They're just hyperfocusing on like the only influential person who spoke out against it, when your efforts fail, it's easy to find scapegoats

[dusky grove]

Agreed

[balmy bone]

That's an american point of view. EU has a better chance at fairness

[flint raft]

That just says he doesn’t actually want to talk to me

[jolly prism]

Good chunk of EU can speak English. Way more if you are talking about people interested in gaming.

[charred wolf]

Just now?

[subtle violet]

Doxxing isn't releasing public info. It's more private info.

[spring kettle]

I agree with you here, and it’s why I believe Thor is correct when he says it’s poorly written. These details would need to be ironed out. But my point here is that something is better than nothing. Even if it’s just the latest build that gets released, it’s better than nothing.

[teal zodiac]

hm??

[subtle violet]

Correct me if I'm wrong there

[thick ledge]

I don't think Thor has ever said the concept was bad

[indigo wadi]

there's a literal phone book with phone numbers. It's easy to get a phone number if it isn't unlisted

[brazen drift]

Nah thats right

[jovial sandal]

"Undoing the misrepresentation" by misrepresenting Thor's points. That'll cool the temperature of the room, thanks

[thick ledge]

He said it needs to be redone with proper language and covering edge cases before ever reaching legislation

[smoky grail]

Something is not always better than nothing.
You can make things way worse doing something when nothing could have completely avoided it.

[pine isle]

does the EU have safeguards against corporate lobbying? If not, then the danger is still there.

[blissful imp]

nope. his issue was the vagueness.

[subtle violet]

Exactly, and unlisting would make it private right?

[flint raft]

That’s correct, things like addresses, phone numbers, emails if released to the public would be doxxing

[dusky grove]

Yeah. In essence SKG is good. But it needed refinement

[balmy bone]

according to my Polish members, they think they are safer

[serene valley]

Im a European country person and i speak English :3

[dusky grove]

What we need is just a big games museum.

[jolly sky]

Concept, good.

Execution however, far more detailed and orders of magnitude more difficult to implement because of a massive number of Laws, both IP and Copyright that SKG did nothing to attempt to understand or expand upon

[subtle violet]

Well, unless an email is listed on a YT account for business inquiries. Specifically wouldn't be private right?

[flint raft]

If someone has any of this info they can do swatting as well

[indigo wadi]

It would, ya

[spring kettle]

Agreed!

[teal zodiac]

some insane takes about europe

[flint raft]

Right, it’s private things that would make it doxxing

[thick ledge]

Well jokes on you Europe isn't real

[serene valley]

Damm

[indigo wadi]

depends if that info is already public

[smoky grail]

The concept of SKG is good for things like Ubisoft making single player games completely unplayable without an Internet connection or a 3rd party account.
Not Live Service Games.

[serene valley]

https://tenor.com/view/deadpool-gif-26545415

[pine isle]

As my mentor put it:
"A crap design is worse than no design, because a crap design will harm those who implement/use it"

[frozen nimbus]

Red isnt read

[thick ledge]

Well most of us arnt european

[gloomy forge]

We need non-profits that archive games that nobody wants to sell and make it available (and socially acceptable) to make them available to download.

[forest epoch]

americans just hatin cause we got greggs and pierogi, it's fine

[blissful imp]

Ratio still looks good atm.

[thick ledge]

I think this already exists

[covert jetty]

I am not the best to speak on this topic, but if I had to give you an answer, and that is only my humble opinion, I think having an entity close to the laws would be good to regulate industries, and not only gaming. But about the gaming industry, game companies and publishers are basically the dominant party and are free to do whatever they want. Which, in some cases leads to issue related to rights, like consumer rights, which is the core of Ross' initiative (whether we agree about how he's going at it or not). And having no entity to support those rights and enforce them leaves the industry in such a state than gamers and consumers are slaves to the companies and are, unfortunately, way too often stripped of those rights. Companies these days like to call it "being entitled" or "privileged", and are generally speaking, making a generality here but of course it's not the case everywhere, against those rights.

Sorry I'm slow to type 😅

[flint raft]

Well there’s a lot of variables the more popular someone is, they can list a P.O. Box that’s not connected to their actual home address

[indigo wadi]

That's called abandonware

[jovial sandal]

It would have needed to be three separate petitions. One for single-player games with online function, one for mixed, and one for online-only

[jolly prism]

Americans 🦅

[subtle violet]

Can you imagine what would happen if a government entity controlled a game like Fortnite?

[indigo wadi]

Oh for sure.

[gloomy forge]

@indigo wadi yes thats why I said socially acceptable because abandonware isn't.

[flint raft]

These are good points

[balmy bone]

nah, could be done all in one, but with clear language delineating each

[thick ledge]

Imagine you make this petition to get your foot in the door then the EU parliament reads it and takes it as gospel and just do what it says

That'd be bad

[flat moat]

Why make it socially acceptable? If people want to play games, they will play games

[fluid dome]

*Slop

Not videogames.

FTFY

[jovial sandal]

character limits would prevent getting as exact as you would need to be to cover all types

[jolly prism]

That would never happen.

[thick ledge]

I don't know by what mechanism Ross believes he can then hash out the details personally with parliament

[pine isle]

So that's 1/27; what about members from the other 26 EU countries? (I want to get a grasp on how people from all over the EU feel about it)

[fluid dome]

Ubisoft hasn't made a good game since Rayman Legends

[flat moat]

https://tenor.com/view/land-mine-gif-18672009

[thick ledge]

I don't know enough about EU law for that

[balmy bone]

fair

[smoky grail]

Oh no don't get me wrong. I'm not agreeing with it at all. Keep governments out.

[flint raft]

But here’s an issue, if someone is really determined to get private info they would go through insane lengths to do so.
If your private number gets leaked for example that’s all they need.

[gloomy forge]

@indigo wadi Then why even have a petition if not not to make it acceptable? The thing is that abandonware is technically still piracy BUT once its accepted its not.

[blissful imp]

Ask khronos. he's streaming rn

[teal zodiac]

i mean, if you want preservation thn praise GoG for what they recently did with Breath of Fire 4 and Tyrian 2000

[covert jetty]

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking, why would you think that having an external entity, like the government, enforcing laws to regulate this industry wouldn't be good? Unless I miserderstood what you said, but since you talked about overly regulate things, I was curious to have another opinion 😄

[indigo wadi]

I think is where I ended up drawing that "Ross became hostile" from.

[forest epoch]

well technically Khronos isn't in the EU anymore

[jolly sky]

Governments getting too involved with games is how you end up with Australia and its "Nanny state" approach for games

[smoky grail]

It was an example of a real issue regardless of taste.

[subtle violet]

Same here, I don't know why everyone is glazing over that point specifically, namely SoG and Critical

[fluid dome]

Asking for government regulation is just a massive overcorrection that can be avoided

[indigo wadi]

Going through a databroker isn't that much of an insane legnth

[flat moat]

There's a difference between legally and socially acceptable. The petition is to change it legally

Socially, it'll be fine once done legally and with inputs from all parties

[flint raft]

I think it depends on how it’s approached, it’s not inherently bad.
It can become bad easily though if it’s not handled correctly

[indigo wadi]

Because, I assume, the aim is for games with an online component, but the way that it's worded is encompasses all games

[smoky grail]

Those poor Aussies

[blissful imp]

i hate technicalities

[thick ledge]

Lots of entities already actually do large scale gsme preservation

Here's an example of one

https://archive.gamehistory.org/

[flint raft]

That is true

[thick ledge]

These guys catalogue lots of stuff

[green plank]

if 5 people from skg came over to be hostile when thor disagreed, would that be viewed as acceptable

cause i think the answer is no

right

[flint raft]

I’m surprised no ones mentioned them yet

[covert jetty]

Yeah, we can agree on that. Especially considering governments are often out of touch with this kind of topic. Which is why the initiative system is good, or at least when used wisely

[thick ledge]

They've even got magazine promos

For games archived

[gloomy forge]

@flat moat yeah I was thinking a step ahead but also because all of this discussion is more about being socially acceptance. content creator vs content creator non nuanced stuff. I meant as you say.

[minor nymph]

https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1937962707367686507

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

@accursedfarms You took clips of me off stream out of context to make it seem like I was obsessed with the conversion of multiplayer games into single player which I'm not.

You specifically did not include most media from my videos regarding all of the issues I have with the initiative as I

X · Jun 25, 2025, 7:54 PM

[smoky grail]

I need to take a few days to read through that archive. Theres definitely stuff I wanna try to find

[flint raft]

For sure!
If it’s handled with care it could potentially improve the industry as a whole.
But because it’s a fragile kind of thing you risk damaging the industry as well

[thick ledge]

Poor thor being forced to argue on twitter

[jolly sky]

There's also undoubtedly a large number of people who co-opted Thors understandable stance and disagreements about SKG, to just continue the bewildering hate campaigns that have gone on since before the Only Fangs nonsense

[thick ledge]

A fate worse than death

[frozen nimbus]

😔

Dang it zaf said before me

[serene valley]

At this point I wouldn't sign anything they put forward solely because of the harassment I've seen over it tbh

[green plank]

i just dont like charlie or mutahar, thor and ross will be fine

[smoky grail]

Out in the trenches

[soft vector]

Imho If you want people to support an initiative you don't Attack people who disagree with you even if you think they are wrong

[flint raft]

Charlie is going off limited info to be fair, he’s not fully aware of the entire situation like we are yet

[minor nymph]

I fucking hate twitter

[thick ledge]

Same unfortunately, can't see myself supporting anything Ross puts forward because of all this

[minor nymph]

He didn't even watch my videos lol

[thick ledge]

[flint raft]

At all???

[green plank]

yea i know, i just really hoped hed be the type to not lean so hard on a grey issue

[jolly sky]

Charlie watched the out of context cliff notes provided by Ross

[terse pelican]

Obviously not based on what he said

[forest epoch]

If he's got limited info then why make a video to stir shi though

[teal zodiac]

i mean, if people cant read and cant even watch a video whats left? maybe a puppet show

[thick ledge]

Views

[subtle violet]

Hang in there champ

[flint raft]

Okay, so this is another mama max situation for Charlie which hurt his credibility

[jolly sky]

Because its Big news

[minor nymph]

This.

[hardy ingot]

From what I can say he only saw what Ross put in his video, which is... heh

[jovial sandal]

because Charlie is a reaction youtuber

[patent flame]

I wonder if this is coordinated somehow

[brazen drift]

I think the thing that bugs me most is every time thor has drama about him he constantly tells everyone not to attack others, but in Ross ideo I don't hear him say anywhere not to go attack thor

[forest epoch]

Big News Big DRAMA [WATCH OUT!]

[flat moat]

If you can start a big fire, why not? You also get views which translate into money

[thick ledge]

No evidence of it, sonits just speculation

[flint raft]

Damn

[subtle violet]

I really like Charlie but man I don't appreciate regurgitating the same points

[indigo wadi]

no that's just how reaction drama goes

[brazen drift]

But he actively asks for Super big youtubers to "end this"

[smoky grail]

It's the folly of reaction channel content

[patent flame]

Ah

[lunar moth]

Just got back, I 'sploded in Noita - who is this Charlie folks have been talking about so far? Seen the name be mentioned a few times now but who is it?

[soft vector]

It's more likely Thor get's a lot of viewers, and talking about Thor will automatically bring in viewers

[flint raft]

Moist critical

[brittle jacinth]

moistcritikal

[lunar moth]

Oh

[ember ember]

Moistcr1tikal or penguinz0

[lunar moth]

Oh-kay

[thick ledge]

Very big youtuber

[subtle violet]

This is the grossest thing

[thick ledge]

Dwarfing anyone else involved

[flint raft]

The moisty boy

[green plank]

damn it

[warm trench]

Living in the Reality TV era...

[green plank]

well mods know what i said lol

[flint raft]

Yeah since 2004

[smoky grail]

You really can't take reaction content seriously like ever if you want to stay sane and un-sloppified

[flint raft]

Was it a string of funny no no words

[green plank]

i assumbed multi-millionair reaction channels fact checked things 😊

[terse pelican]

That's an unfair generalization, cause there IS Reaction content that is good.

[subtle violet]

Agreed

[green plank]

is basically what i said

with less cursing

[teal zodiac]

this one is getting dull, anyone wanna bet on whats going to be the next drama about?

[flint raft]

Ah gotcha

[jolly sky]

Imagine if Ross worked with Thor, other game devs and other people to help draft this Initiative so that he could have a better understanding of the requirements needed to make things happen, or whether they made sense to actually do or even accomplish

And then after that, reach out to content creators to help promote it

[flint raft]

Arin Hanson will somehow get dragged into this because much like Thor people like hating on him

[hardy ingot]

Yeah, even if that happened now it would be way too late, that should've happened before it even started

[subtle violet]

That makes too much sense, get outta here with that lol

[west plinth]

dude, if people collaborated like this react youtubers wouldn't have any drama to farm

[flint raft]

Which might I add most of the drama is made up

[jolly sky]

Precisely, that should have happened from the outset

[brazen drift]

While understandable to grasp at Anything while your venture is failing, at least have a little bit of class with it. I would have sympathized with him more if he didn't sound like a Jerk while talking about thor's video snippets and actively told people not to harass him and that he was just trying to clear it one last time in the hopes it would change peoples minds

[teal zodiac]

not to be an owl but who?

[forest epoch]

Thor is gonna get accused of child and animal a**se because of his FMA shirt

[soft vector]

No, No, No, Thor was supposed to get in Line and just Support it without thinking

[brazen drift]

game grump

[indigo wadi]

already beeen done

[sterile nexus]

Sadly iirc, Thor shut down the idea of even talking to Ross about anything related to this. Would have loved to see them collaborate though. Some legendary things could occur

[forest epoch]

no hecking way

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/nev-nevolent-owl-gif-26700423

[warped venture]

I mean, he's talking to him right now on twitter

[indigo wadi]

yeah, accused of grooming

which was debunked

[flat moat]

Clearing something one last time long after it's been over is what we call stirring a burnt pot. The smell will make your nose crinkle

[jolly sky]

Yea this is a hypothetical scenario of the actions that should have been taken before the Initiative even reached a public platform or knowledge

[smoky grail]

There's specific content that can be classified as reaction but isn't under the umbrella of what I'm generally pointing at.
Regardless we should always check things out ourselves no matter who it is in the videos

[subtle violet]

They're still two men who don't like each other at the end of the day, and I don't want to be the guy that makes them get along

[sterile nexus]

Well now, yes. I mean in the 10 months ago part of the timeline when it could've affecting a better timeline.

[forest epoch]

this is so ridiculous it makes me wanna puke

[flint raft]

Arin Hanson from game grumps, people hate on him for misunderstandings, people called him a homophobe one time over a misunderstanding he had with some friends of his (who might I add have explained it was a misunderstanding and people didn’t know what they were talking about)

Arin is bi

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/smol-owl-stare-hat-gif-26020813

[subtle violet]

Some people can't be reasoned with

[indigo wadi]

whoops!

i said a bad word XD

[brazen drift]

like i said, when you're on the cusp of failing and feel slighted, i can understand it. but if you have the ability to edit and make a video and ou make it and go "yeah, my angry and passive agressive, sarcastic tones will for SURE do well" then you CHOSE to make it this way. it could have been way more civil imo

[subtle violet]

Thor's trying to reason with everyone though and that's why I like him. He's kind about it

People should try that.

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/i-needed-that-zeke-landon-manifest-i-wanted-that-i-need-it-gif-27080402

[teal zodiac]

the secret meaning of the CatDog tshirt and whats REALLY behind the ||green screen||

[flint raft]

Nahh that doesn’t work for twitter people

[forest epoch]

People? Being reasonable on the internet? in this economy?!

[brazen drift]

cant believe there are still people on twitter tbh

[smoky grail]

Dead Twitter Theory

[blissful imp]

MODERN INTERNET USERS

[cyan widget]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF4zH8bJDI8

Rare reasonable Opinion. Love Louis

[balmy bone]

what?

[flint raft]

It’s all bots? Or a different one

[forest epoch]

Hey, it's got great clair obscur fanarts :<

[teal zodiac]

sounds so much fun to be a public person

[smoky grail]

Always has been

[balmy bone]

That's also 10 months old. I really hope it ends soon

[cyan widget]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[warm trench]

SKG - I don't think its really about keeping games alive. It's the fight against the idea of service/license vs physical owned. If it was about trying to keep games alive, solutions would be pitched that would allow companies owning the IP to be protected and have proper incentive to sunset services/licenses into perpetuity. Instead, its about using government to strong arm/force behavior along strong ideological lines. Which I oppose vehemently.

[forest epoch]

I mean, I'm not surprised but still disappointed

[brazen drift]

Id love to respond to this with my statement but i'd get deleted by the mods for politics

[hardy ingot]

and he managed to do it at a time when it was relevant too! 😄

[forest epoch]

Understandable

[flint raft]

Yeah he’s actually not a bad guy, he always lets people use his platform to bolster their career.
Like Ben Schwartz who voices Sonic in the live action movies

[smoky grail]

Hit the nail right on the head.

[fluid dome]

I should be working on my world building project for my OCs

But this Internet drama keeps distracting me and its killing my creativity

[brazen drift]

im literally drawing a meme someone paid me for while chatting here

[flint raft]

And also RubberRoss and SuperMega

[balmy bone]

time to disconnect. there's a mountain somewhere out there with your name on it. good luck!

[flint raft]

There is no actual beef between Arin and supermega, it’s all fake hate jokes

[teal zodiac]

Could be worse, Im actually playing ||League|| while reading chat...

[frozen sonnet]

Hell yes

[balmy bone]

I'm sorry

[forest epoch]

I'm sorry

[frozen sonnet]

Oh no

[smoky grail]

[balmy bone]

This needs to turn into a support chat

[teal zodiac]

its....its ok (please send help)

[flint raft]

Haha the guy I been talking with and went on a date with plays league, I don’t really understand it but I like watching him play sometimes

[hardy ingot]

Sometimes I love internet

[quick ermine]

this is actually the issue whit this Initiative, nobody seems realy to know whats about and interpretes some stuff, but no one gives clear answers how to solve possible problems or the main issue, the FAQ contradicts itself everywher possible...

[forest epoch]

Pirate Software Customer Service, how may I help you?

[fluid dome]

Were it so easy. Sadly, online friends are one of my only sources of interaction due to anxiety ( 🙃 )

[jolly sky]

Louis Rossman and Josh Stryfe Hayes have been the only reasonable Youtubers I've seen cover the SKG movement, and the problems that Thor raised with it

[indigo wadi]

found the canadians

[balmy bone]

We have a league player in need of assistance

[forest epoch]

That's too much, I'm quitting

[balmy bone]

Well, I am.

[frozen sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/wcw-randy-savage-botchamania-corpsing-gif-25813376

[indigo wadi]

I'm sorry eh

[flint raft]

I’m surprised Ross hasn’t tried calling out Josh ngl

[minor nymph]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
https://x.com/PirateSoftware/status/1937966802048585950

Pirate Software (@PirateSoftware)

@accursedfarms If you create an environment that puts heavy restrictions or roadblocks on making online only games then you will get less online only games and more single player or couch co-op games. This isn't hard to understand.

You have two entire videos to pull from where I list my

X · Jun 25, 2025, 8:11 PM

[serene valley]

I recently saw a game dev talk about it too, he had a plastic baseball cap or something

[hardy ingot]

Well in Josh's case personally I'd say his take was pretty bad, but he was very polite about it, which is what I respect. But it's bad objectively according to my subjective opinion so... 😄

[flint raft]

Hey Thor rq, I heard there’s a bad heat wave where you’re at.
Stay safe out there

[blissful imp]

What twitter/the skg fan boys see.

[hardy ingot]

Issue is I think people will still read this as a positive of "Yes and that's a good thing! I want every online game to be SP-compatible!"

[flint raft]

Oh damn lol

[green plank]

i promise you all, no one is reading anything on twitter

[muted robin]

don't bother changing people who are committed to misunderstanding you

[brazen drift]

honestly i personally wouldnt mind Less live service games 👉👈

[teal zodiac]

i mean, i dont have twitter but it cant be thaaaat bad

[flint raft]

If you play retail WoW you can get the single player mmo experience rn

[hardy ingot]

true, that was an error on my part, I apologize

[green plank]

people see things on twtter, they dont read

[brazen drift]

means we dont get Crap like Anthem being Rushed and then failing anyway

[green plank]

what no you dont have to apologize lol

[blissful imp]

this is why i wish it was a video instead.

Again.

MODERN INTERNET USERS

[hardy ingot]

gave up on that long ago, used to really like m+ when I was in highschool and had time for it but with work I quickly realized that was not going to be the case anymore 😄

[jovial sandal]

oh, its not that he didn't use those two videos: he used snips from them. It's that he was arguing that you thought the initiative was about single-player games, while also playing... bits where you talk about its potential effect on multiplayer games?

[flint raft]

Last time I played i literally went a whole week without seeing other players

[hardy ingot]

Ah right, forgot we're on the internet

cough cough

HOW DARE YOU

[jolly sky]

<@&362005405901127710>

[nova bough]

between tiktok and kids not being able to read makes me scared of the next gen

[fluid dome]

Kibby.

Commed by RÓGAlo :3

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-ace-ventura-take-care-slammed-the-door-bye-gif-8571412

[frozen nimbus]

Lovely new mod color

[smoky grail]

It's a lovely gradient

[flint raft]

Woahh love the style

[hardy ingot]

Think he didn't hit world record despite the efforts

[nova bough]

orange and purple is a fantastic color combo

[fluid dome]

€45 btw

[green plank]

this is peoples thought process: eyes glance over on screen sees piratesoftware logo sub-conscious negative reaction (0.5-1 second after seeing it), then they type "you smell (:"

[serene valley]

Heart bound gradient :3

[flint raft]

That’s a good price

[serene valley]

No we do that regardless of the PS logo

[vague vessel]

i was watching the ross video to see what was going on with stop killing games and i found one clip that i think describes exactly what's wrong with the movement
at 3:08 in the 'the end of stop killing games' video he says "Now of course, publishers cant support a game indefinitely, but by not giving expiration dates or end of life plans, that might be the situation they've put themselves in"
this is an ex post facto law they're proposing. he wants to force existing live service games to exist forever if they dont already have the things he wants them to have

[serene valley]

U smel

[fluid dome]

I have other art too

[green plank]

im just saying people are trained like animals to like/hate stuff and no one is thinking

[flint raft]

Be sure to post em in #self-promo-art #concept-art 😄

[blissful imp]

MODERN INTERNET USERS

[frozen nimbus]

But but, chat is stinky 😔

[serene valley]

Not u sd, unfortunate timing

[lunar moth]

That's awesome!! Man... this is making me want to draw more ^^

[flint raft]

Oh! Also #1191571407352647721

[frozen sonnet]

Are you telling me to hate you?

[smoky grail]

Thinking requires brain power and man it's in short supply

[nova bough]

brainrot via short form videos :(

[frozen nimbus]

I dont have any

[hardy ingot]

No, no, animals are pretty intelligent actually, let's not make that comparison

[dusky grove]

"Keep this alive forever or planned obsolescence. Pick your poison devs"

[subtle violet]

Don't forget to eat chat

[flint raft]

Chat been rolling in a sewer

[green plank]

lol

[green plank]

ooo tasty

[subtle violet]

Blueberry 🫐 pancakes 🥞

[frozen sonnet]

Thanks now I’m hungry

[flint raft]

Wish I had pancake mix cuz now I want pancakes

[subtle violet]

You're welcome 🤗

[teal zodiac]

DRINK WATER you bunch of dehydrated humans

[frozen sonnet]

[flint raft]

Way ahead of you

[frozen sonnet]

I AM DRINKING

[frozen nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/digital-circus-the-amazing-digital-circus-caine-water-drink-water-gif-16755529072683777621

[teal zodiac]

be like a potato, seek water

[subtle violet]

You just need flour really

[vague vessel]

and worse, the 'situation theyve put themselves in' thing suggests that the initiative is just going to force all current live services to be active forever

[hardy ingot]

Today's internet, summarized

[indigo wadi]

This confirms, the internet is an octopus

[nova bough]

i hate diet issues. its a tossup if pancakes cause me digestive issues or nah.

and now i crave pancakes.

[smoky grail]

I shall stay here in my pit and unbothered

[subtle violet]

Relatable af

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-octopus-the-deep-the-boys-eating-calamari-fresh-seafood-gif-25853770

[flint raft]

There’s this specific mix I love a lot, if I could find my waffle iron it would be great for chicken and waffles

[indigo wadi]

Deep Thoughts with The Deep?

[brazen drift]

one of the worst parts is that Ross seems genuine when he tries to refute the "misrepresented points" but the original text is absolutely vague

[subtle violet]

No 🙂‍↔️ 👎 I believe in pancake supremacy

[flint raft]

Omg i actually felt so bad for him in that scene “he’s begging for his life” 😭

[hardy ingot]

I felt bad for the octopus, I hoped Deep chokes on it 😄

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/real-eyes-the-deep-the-boys-real-eyes-realize-the-peak-gif-26220522

[dusky grove]

He needs a proofreader

[teal zodiac]

"i love how every single study about octopuses is just completely wild"

[brazen drift]

it feels written in legalees almost and who the hell can read that

[fluid dome]

Khronos

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/octopus-kitten-peekaboo-cat-gif-5688942722603483378

[dusky grove]

Awww hugs

[indigo wadi]

Octopus', the earth's pandora box

[flint raft]

I wish they would’ve kept more of his comic personality because he wasn’t actually that big of a dbag, he was the odd one out because he actually had dreams to be a real hero.

[brazen drift]

guess he better start translating then

[muted robin]

cursing my discord server w/ this one thanks

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/the-boys-billy-butcher-karl-urban-tomsj2005-season-4-gif-16834528260363329997

[flint raft]

You also miss out on when someone steals his costume and how upset he gets

[jovial sandal]

The issue isnt the legelese. It'd actually be easier to follow if it were. The problem is the FAQ talks about things not mentioned at all in the initiative, as if it should be patently obvious, and even within the FAQ, its contradictory as to the purpose of the initiative

[flint raft]

“I wasn’t even in the same state how could I have done that??!!”

[blissful imp]

Ratio still looks good

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-care-didnt-ask-cope-_ratio-skill-issue-canceled-gif-24148064

[dusky grove]

Whaaaat? Law is complicated??? Whoda thunk?

[flint raft]

Unironically tho that’s a good movie

[subtle violet]

It's a movie?

[flint raft]

Spies in Disguise

[teal zodiac]

whats the middle one about? the 113 ouroboros

[flint raft]

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-ahhh-shriek-screech-yell-gif-15781032

[blissful imp]

retweets. idk about quote tweets tho

[flint raft]

Will Smith’s agent character gets turned into a pigeon 😂

[subtle violet]

Uh

That literally looks like me dawg

[flint raft]

Oh shit are you a spy in disguise?

[subtle violet]

I'm heavily cyan

[flint raft]

Yooo you actually pull it off, I would look like a dork if I did that

[subtle violet]

HA thank you

[subtle violet]

EXACTLY

[flint raft]

Of course 🙂

[austere gust]

Omg id migu

[jolly sky]

Process this cat

[austere gust]

🫵

[austere gust]

Orang

[subtle violet]

Jokes on you I take things literally

[hardy ingot]

that's called being a stealer

[austere gust]

Stealer? I hardly knew 'er!

[subtle violet]

:0 I've been had

I've been the got

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/we-got-him-ladies-and-gentlemen-em-gif-15781907

[thick ledge]

Anyone watch map men?

Love me some map men

Love to horde info I'll never use

[hardy ingot]

but what about the map women and the map children too?

[flint raft]

Is that like pillar men but map based?

[jolly sky]

I'm currently watching Papa Meats latest

[subtle violet]

Whatever happened to chatter that was collecting heights to determine weaknesses of other chatters?(Consensually)

[flint raft]

I’m sorry…../s

[thick ledge]

Yea gripples

[jolly sky]

The Horrors of Goodwill

[frozen sonnet]

[flint raft]

I kinda lost interest when he just started doing bottom of the barrel animation jokes, like jelly roll eating a musician cuz haha fat

MGK is like a skinny vampire laugh

[mossy timber]

3 months from now "ross who?"

[hardy ingot]

more like 3 weeks

[frozen sonnet]

More like 3 days

[subtle violet]

Give it 3 hours

[flint raft]

It’s already blowing over

[mossy timber]

Is it bad I gave a certain Hardcore WoW guild a year before it fell apart and it was more like 3 months?

[flint raft]

Well you were optimistic

Nothing wrong with that

[hardy ingot]

I suspect after that we will have a week of moaning about the initiative having gotten fked officially and then there won't be a word spoken of it until Baldie notices it even happened like 3 months later

[flint raft]

I’m waiting for Asmon to talk about it 😂

Roach king himself

[mossy timber]

I mean I used to be in some bad WoW guilds, but I didn't consider how bad that guild was underneath the few snapshots from thor's view

[subtle violet]

Asmon's got interesting ideas that are usually atypical from other streamers.. less so lately however

I'm not going to withhold hope anymore. Penguinz0 told me I can't do that. ;_;

[frozen nimbus]

Im so annoyed

[flint raft]

(He actually cleaned up his place btw, I just like makin lil jokes)

[pine isle]

If you're fine with being disappointed, yeah
Personally I just set my base expectations very low so that I can only be pleasantly surprised

[frozen nimbus]

Oh wrong chat mb

[hardy ingot]

issue is he also has the most oversimplified takes generally

[subtle violet]

It's cool you can let it out

[hardy ingot]

As in, the ones that realistically have the least thought put into them, and have the most issues with them

[proud lily]

A man of the people if you will.

[hardy ingot]

Nah, man of the chat, let's not get ridiculous here

[subtle violet]

I just like to chuckle when he goes BIG DIIIICK

[pine isle]

Asmon is fun to me because he leans into the rage
He's a Terumi figure, the more people are mad at him the more he grows

[proud lily]

If there's one thing if learned, then that the people™ are just the chat™ but offline.

[flint raft]

He also never let the money go to his head

[flint raft]

He’s got like a Warren Buffet situation

[hardy ingot]

I just dislike that he loves to strawman things to make it seem like he intended the same thing if called out while being on opposite side of spectrum at start generally

[subtle violet]

Also this, it's unusual for me to see that

[flint raft]

All while WoW gameplay is in the background most of the time

[blissful imp]

Josh Strife hayes is a cool dude

[subtle violet]

I'm from a small town lol

[blissful imp]

particularly the 1st reply

[indigo wadi]

I read it in his voice too. JSH is goated

[flint raft]

does something rude
“It’s just a joke dude!”

[teal zodiac]

what type of rollercoaster is this??

[hardy ingot]

Yeah, Josh is a very nice fellow in general, I don't agree with his take on the SKG situation, but I very much respect his way going about... well just about anything really

[subtle violet]

Aww, 🥰

[hardy ingot]

Josh could easily be a role model in how to behave in arguments

[jolly sky]

One of the rare breed of good dudes for sure

[mossy timber]

Got G/kicked from a guild because I left a ToC raid early when we weren't getting past first boss despite some of us haven a bunch of ICC gear... I left early because I had jury duty the next day. Jury selection was quick, I was not picked, that day I got into pugs and got 2 best in slot upgrades. The guild joined another guild withing a few months and the leads that kicked me got themselves kicked from the other guild. Guild drama is wild, petty, and usually bites back.

[pine isle]

He gives 'em what they want to hear

[subtle violet]

The coaster to betterment I'm assuming

[blissful imp]

i really liked josh's reply here

[jolly sky]

And Josh Strife Hayes doing his Dark Swoles runs has been fun to watch

[blissful imp]

because its true

[hardy ingot]

Yeah and has common sense which helps him to make a controversial statement when he knows it will pay off a few days later

[placid plover]

Hey chat, I read the tweet and its pretty interesting. the replies are kinda weird though. anyways hru guys

[subtle violet]

I'm gonna need more caffeine to understand this 🥱 ☕

[pine isle]

Yep :3

[mossy timber]

people tend to listen to respond, not to understand

[hardy ingot]

I agree with Josh there but in this case I'd honestly say the situation is not what he's talking about

Since the flies are here being caught with gobshooter 😄

Honey failed already

[edgy oar]

I will say it over and over again. Thor didn't kill SKG. He made two videos TEN MONTHS ago. You're telling me for TEN MONTHS you couldn't regain momentum? That's not Thor's fault, that's a fault on the one leading the initiative and now everyone is screeching about Thor. I hate it.

[blissful imp]

i got recommended it. didn't watch it because i was worried he'd hate it

[indigo wadi]

does he spoil any of it?

[flint raft]

I like how supermega plays souls games lol

[blissful imp]

its like 3 hours long of a video. and idk

[hardy ingot]

I actually have yet to watch his E33 video mainly because I tried to avoid that game since for my liking it got too much hype so I wanna play it when that mostly drops off

[lunar moth]

I really don't, because it is equating things that can't be equated. He's comparing politics to "pandering to the lowest common denominator" - there's several worlds of difference between advocating for change and advocating for people to pander to people on the basis of "that's politics" when it isn't.

[indigo wadi]

3 HOURS?!

[mossy timber]

I heard the Ross guy doesn't plan things out, and clearly he didn't plan this out

[blissful imp]

Stapel said it. 3:33:33 and spoils everything

[hardy ingot]

I mean, to his credit, he said so himself

[jolly sky]

It's like if I wanted to put forward an initiative for Free Water for All, coming from a tap or faucet in every mile of a country. I make the Initiative look really nice and labelled all the good things that would happen if it went through. Good idea right?

But I didn't think about about the infrastructure changes.

The plumbing of the water,
the Laws about what piping is needed,
the storing,
the land that would needed to be dug up for the plumbing to go into
the design of the faucets etc.

And then someone pointed out all these future issues, and I got extremely mad and blamed them for trying to kill the movement.

This is something akin to what the SKG Initiative looked like, and how it all went down.

[subtle violet]

I'm doing a professional course for writing, I'll be real. It's not easy 😭

[hardy ingot]

He did not want to head the initiative, he just did because noone else was going to

[jolly sky]

(sorry for the wall of words)

[indigo wadi]

and yet blames Thor... 🙄

[edgy oar]

I have literally never heard about SKG until it was first announced. And then when it died. I have heard NOTHING about it between those two points. They just didn't push it hard enough.

[subtle violet]

But humility is the most human emotion there is!

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/unforgivable-unacceptable-gif-21786120

[blissful imp]

you're missing his point... at least i think you are.

[mossy timber]

Oh god, anyone remember the "Solar Roadways" crowdfund?

[hardy ingot]

Look everyone loves having a scapegoat

Or a scapegoblin I suppose in this case

[subtle violet]

Humility unites us all as people. Have you seen fail videos? I mean what happened to us on the Internet? Have we lost our humanity? Become too prideful to say, hmm. Maybe I'm wrong?

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/fox-insane-finnegan-lattuga-gif-24967569

Mikayla you will be remembered 😦

[teal zodiac]

FailArmy was pure gold

[subtle violet]

Foxes are heckin' cute

[subtle violet]

They play failarmy at the gym in front of the treadmills sometimes, it's helpful

[hardy ingot]

was more referring to the specific foxes, SaveAFox rescuer committed self-unaliving due to coordinated harassment today

[indigo wadi]

Why is danny matheson out of prison?

[mossy timber]

imagine people telling you the solar panels won't generate much power being flat on the ground under another layer to protect it, and then being surprised when you find out your roadways won't generate much power and the entire project is unreasonable (and oddly enough there was a guy that made videos about why this wouldn't work and he got shit on for it)

[frozen sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-perry-go-cry-me-a-river-jack-perry-cry-me-a-river-jack-perry-cry-jack-perry-cm-punk-gif-7658279850587392028

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/phineas-and-ferb-doofenschmirtz-if-i-had-two-nickels-gif-8492318790274198203

[blissful imp]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-perry-real-glass-all-in-london-2023-jack-perry-jungle-boy-jack-perry-real-glass-gif-12523612984146070338

[brazen drift]

I feel like in the 10 months hes had the initiative there have been like, 3 major gaming events by Geoff Keighly, if you wanted to promot an initiative why not at least try to reach out to that since it seems that'd be the MOST audience. Hell, im sure the PC game show might have said something

[frozen sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/jungle-boy-call-me-gif-26323501

[subtle violet]

Oh, that's highly unfortunate. I bet there was plenty they may have known that society could've benefited from.

[edgy oar]

Because they don't actually care about putting in the effort. They just wanna play the blame game.

[pine isle]

That was earlier this week

[hardy ingot]

sorry, only learnt today

[subtle violet]

Bullying/harassment makes me sad.

[hardy ingot]

Please don't make a video about my misinformation ._.

[pine isle]

No worries!

[brazen drift]

dude knows law but doesnt know content creation

gotta push that content errewhere

[subtle violet]

I would never

[jolly sky]

Yep that sounds like a good comparison to the current nonsense

[brazen drift]

especially if its something important like that. you gotta actually reach out to the big youtubers instead of doing the defeatism of "well they'll never cover it"

[hardy ingot]

The girl was the most humble awesome person I saw on youtube, she lived and breathed love for those foxes

[pine isle]

And then she got accused of being a fur farm, and it went from there to harassment

there was a subreddit dedicated to harassing her

[edgy oar]

Also I love everyone being like "You didn't get the INTENT" Lawmakers don't care about intent, they care about what is precisely written.

[hardy ingot]

Worst part is it's who she considered her closest friends that were the final nail in the coffin

[pine isle]

Yep

[subtle violet]

I tend to separate myself from those who chose to go that route. Just to save my sanity. I've had a long go with unaliving, it's finally come to an end though.

[subtle violet]

I've seen this happen before. It's true cancer.

Talk about more happy stuff lol

[hardy ingot]

I just cannot imagine how terrifying it must've been for the husband and her daughter

[brazen drift]

I believe, somewhere in Ross' videos (either the one a couple days ago, or a previous one) or written somewhere he said that "lawmakers dont care about the distinction between single player and multiplayer games"

and i had to double take

[flint raft]

Why does he look like Dave mustaine lol

[flint raft]

The singer of megadeth

[lunar moth]

His point, as I understood it, is that compromise and to meet people part way in order to have an open dialogue is more effective in order to further one's own message and to reach a point where a sound consensus can be heard. The problem I have with it ... is that this is the same thing that flat earthers pull when they want to "debate the shape of the earth."

Josh knows that Thor is correct here, because he's not dumb. But he wants to placate people in order to reach people, which can backfire because that's platforming people - when you platform people who have a message in which they seek to pander to the lowest common denominator you create what's called a "useful idiot" (this is (mostly) not an insult (and not one aimed at Josh at least), this is an actual political phrase used to describe people who act in good faith but end up platforming bad faith actors).

There are things that can be discussed in good faith, but the idea that any of this could be done in bad faith died the moment Scott made the video. Because it has been 10 months. For this to be possible to have been done in good faith, this needed to happen in a very different way 10 months ago. Platforming people in good faith when they aren't good faith actors in situations like this happens a lot in politics, and it ain't a good thing.

[proud lily]

Yea, what I learned from that video is that the animal rescue "community" in general seems to be a toxic hellscape.
Everyone assumes they are the only one's in the world doing animals right.
Everyone assumes everyone else is either secretly mistreating their animals, or doing it for nothing but fame.
Everyone is a hypocrite that is like "You shouldn't rescue animals unless you're a professional! Yes I'm no professional either, but I know what I'm doing!"
And everyone acts accordingly.

Gross overgeneralization, but a lot of that surfaced these days

[hardy ingot]

I fear it's worse than that and it was just to try and slander to get funding..

[thorny cloud]

Ya know, as I was trying to research all this drama yesterday, I found myself watching Ross's most recent video about all of this, and a few things jumped out at me.

First of all, over half of the video was parsed out as a response to Thor. That's not significant in and of itself, but lets earmark that and come back to it in a moment.

Secondly, I couldn't help but notice that Ross framed that part of the video like a "Let's cover it from the beginning" kind of tone, then he immediately starts in with a bunch of spliced clips out of context of Thor saying things like "eat my entire ass" and then moves on to smugly saying "yeah Pirate Software sure is wise and friendly!" It is a MASSIVE red flag to me when someone creates a "gotcha reel" like that, but conveniently leaves out whatever it was that they themselves said to initially invite such comments. Because we know perfectly well Thor did not go out of his way just start a fight with Ross for no reason.

[livid path]

On the saveafox thing, bro istg if I ever see harassment like that in person it is straight hands on sight, like congrats bro you are the direct cause for a source of good in the world being lost and immeasurable grief being brought about because of it

[hardy ingot]

The closing thoughts from the husband at the end of the video were so terrific to imagine because it almost made me feel like I could understand what he feels like

[subtle violet]

It's like a long line of telephone at this point

[hardy ingot]

Of course I am not 1% able to imagine it

[jolly sky]

It's clear that he just made a last ditch panic video in an attempt to drum up more signatures and attention

[hardy ingot]

But that's even more terrifying

[hardy ingot]

I mean he himself literally called it a hail mary last ditch effort

[edgy oar]

Yeah and it's clear the only way they can think to do it is attack Thor.

[jolly sky]

And imagine wanting to support that effort through the means he used

No thanks

[edgy oar]

The fact Moistcritikal jumped in saddens me

[livid path]

What was Charlie’s take?

[hardy ingot]

Moist is react channel mostly, of course he would

I'll be surprised if Act Man doesn't

[brazen drift]

Yeah. It's never explicitly stated but the fact he says "I have nothing else left to lose" is pretty telling.

[edgy oar]

He agreed with Ross that Thor is an idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about.

[jolly sky]

It was entirely based from out of context clips provided by Ross so ugh, not good

[lunar moth]

Exactly, so trying to placating people is a moot point.
The reality is that SKG in theory want to do something good for consumers but their way to do so is by hurting developers and Thor's perspective is one from a developer's view.

Add onto the whole notion that folks online have decided to make Thor into a scapegoat for bloody everything, it is just a bonkers situation.

[flint raft]

He’s only seen Ross’ video so far

[hardy ingot]

And he also did not even watch Thor's video (either of them) in the first place

In fact his take makes me feel he didn't pay much attention to Ross's either

[livid path]

Yeah that makes sense. Charlie is great, but he does jump to conclusions too fast

[thorny cloud]

Well that's the other problem that I have with the initiative just from a social/imaging standpoint: Ross and his whole team of followers clearly made the decision, at some point in time, to make SKG more about Killing Pirate Software than anything else.

Thor hasn't talked about SKG in almost an entire year. He has not been regularly and consistently using his platform to shit on the initiative. He simply stopped talking about it period.

Meanwhile, most of the channels that have been covering SKG have pretty consistently been putting out anti-Thor videos during that entire time.

The movement didn't fail because Thor spoke out against it. The movement failed because it was poorly organized, poorly executed, and most of the people who vocally backed it online decided to spend most of their energy trying to cancel someone than actually win the fight for video games they claim to care about.

[edgy oar]

It honestly made me realize that Charlie is just another reaction youtuber that just reads one thing or watches one thing and agrees with it.

[hardy ingot]

I'd say it's the fallacy of being introduced to that take first

[livid path]

Exactly

[subtle violet]

I'm becoming more desensitized to it. It happens often enough these days, and hopefully Thor knows myself and others in the community backs him 100%, so he doesn't need to feel like these people want him to feel.

[hardy ingot]

Generally when as people we are introduced to a situation where one person tells us it's this way and another then tries convincing us that it's another way, we already decided internally to support the first

[brazen drift]

I will never trust a video where the oppositions talking points are jumpcutted around like those weird mukbang videos

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/correct-plankton-gif-14118231

[livid path]

Yeah, but he is a good dude. Interacts with his community a ton and regularly gives back to community members, legitimately has streams where he gives thousands away to random viewers for whatever they need it for

[brazen drift]

It would have been Far more respectable to cut the two videos together and then did one long continuous react without cutting thors words together

[oblique palm]

Could barely watch a minute of that video
Truly heartbreaking to watch

[remote maple]

[subtle violet]

I feel like Charlie needs to get some more info on each side of the argument and revise his video

[edgy oar]

Oh I don't doubt he's a good guy. But after seeing that video I just had to cringe a little. Because there wasn't any critical thinking involved, just blind agreement.

[hardy ingot]

watched it whole and mom who can't speak English asked me what it was about at the end and I could barely speak

[subtle violet]

But I'm not sure that's something along Charlie's style?

[livid path]

Feel like that will happen later

[hardy ingot]

that is a thing youtubers and people in general very much don't like doing tho 😄

[lunar moth]

The thing about "react" content is that you are supposed to add something to it, and most people who do react content (including Moist) - are "just" influencers.

On YouTube I'm watching a psychologist who play games that have a lot of psychological and philosophical topics like Slay the Princess, and it is immensely interesting!
Watching lawyers reacting to videos and talking about particular laws and how they could impact a courtcase, that's awesome!

Influencers just... watching other influencers? He's not a bad guy but... he doesn't add anything, he's just a... guy watching another guy lie about a third guy.

[subtle violet]

Just add more details, don't switch points if he doesn't want to

[livid path]

He also does gameplay streams too though which are always fun to drop in to

[subtle violet]

If you want to support a movement, just show all sides of it ig

[hardy ingot]

no I meant that people generally don't like giving both sides a fair chance

[subtle violet]

Heh so true though

[edgy oar]

His gameplay content is much better than his react content lately.

[lunar moth]

Of course, but you get my point that this is the fundamental issue of people reacting to stuff they don't know anything about and also have nothing that they can actually add to it

[thorny cloud]

Well context is really important on that, because "both sidesing" issues that do not have two sides has become an incredibly popular and incredibly successful form of propaganda in these days

Although now that I've said that I'm a little unsure which discussion we are even referring to xD

(it's a little hard for my brain to track all the conversation threads sometimes)

[hardy ingot]

Reading what you said I am not sure either 😄

[formal kestrel]

a good amount of people, especially on the internet, fairly quickly make their minds up then are just not willing to have any meaningful discussion around it, its either "youre my best friend and i would die for you" or "youre my enemy and i hope you and your family burn"

[subtle violet]

This, 100%

[thorny cloud]

I might have been thinking oranges when you were talking apples then

[hardy ingot]

Probably, I re-read it like 4 times and still didn't see a connection 😄

[thorny cloud]

Are we talking about the animal initiative thing? Cause I don't actually know what that is all about

[thick ledge]

Either the mods are the fastest hands in the west, or most people joining the discord to talk about this are being tame

[hardy ingot]

I was talking about the SKG initiative there

[thick ledge]

Also my nose started spontaneously bleeding and i blame you guys

Maybe I did a stranger things

[subtle violet]

Blame the mail

[hardy ingot]

11 pm in europe, kiddos gotta go sleep for the final few days of school

[thick ledge]

School has been Hella over for weeks in the us

[jolly sky]

We're currently on the Flat section of the Mobius strip of conversation

[proud lily]

In (parts of) europe its finals week rn

[thorny cloud]

Ah okay, for some reason my brain went more general politics there.

But I was kind of talking parallel to that point in the sense that I was saying Ross and his team kinda lost the messaging at some point. Idk how much time and energy they actually spent trying to positively promote the initiative, but I do know that every time SKG keeps coming up in my feeds, it's to bag on Thor

[flint raft]

I got boxes full of Pepe!

[thick ledge]

Start krunking gumballs

[hardy ingot]

Absolutely, I keep saying that today that it's fascinating how people are more interested in shitting on Thor than in the initiative

[thick ledge]

Skg

[serene valley]

Maybe the initiative failed because it became about hurting Thor rather than promoting and refining the concept

[soft vector]

It also might have failed because not enough people care

[hardy ingot]

Well yes people love their little drama

[serene valley]

Well I kinda stopped caring when we got harassed here for about 2 weeks about it

[edgy oar]

Man they couldn't get half the signatures in an entire year. The initiative wasn't going anywhere.

[thorny cloud]

Ya know what actually, did this all start because Ross reached out to Thor hoping he would back it, Thor said he wouldn't because of things like the language, and that caused Ross to be inflammatory in some way?

Honestly trying to research internet drama in an academic fashion is so exhausting because most of it comes down to "he said/she said" comments that end up getting deleted anyway xD

[proud lily]

If it actually was all about hurting Thor the initiative would have succeeded because there's nothing more popular than that these days.

[serene valley]

💀

[hardy ingot]

I'd say people care but the proposal is so dumb when given basic thought that most people find at least one of the 1000 issues with it and choose not to support it

[hardy ingot]

More because Thor was the only influential person who unapologetically opposed the SKG initiative from the start and now they need someone to blame

[edgy oar]

The idea of SKG is good. But it was clearly written by someone who doesn't know the industry or how laws work that well.

[jolly sky]

It was selling it as a massive over-simplification of something that is several orders of magnitude more complex

[tight bramble]

The initiative failed because the dice deemed it so.

[mossy timber]

failed because skill issue

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/you-couldn’t-live-thanos-endgame-back-to-me-you-could-not-live-gif-16221515858415007908

[hardy ingot]

Thor POV:

[thorny cloud]

I'm frankly with Thor on this - I can back the general idea behind it, I just can't back the execution.

Ross's major logical fallacy is that he is assuming EU lawmakers will automatically find the correct laws for this kind of stuff simply because they are lawmakers. Ross's attitude is "We just need to start the conversation. Doesn't matter where or how we start it - we just have to open up the floodgates and these lawmakers will sniff out the right laws like pigs sniffing out truffles"

And I just can't help but think to myself "Dude, you clearly don't understand how lawmaking works xD"

[indigo wadi]

failed cause of afk

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/only-war-reason-gaming-warhammer-gif-17304554

[lunar moth]

In this particular case, it isn't difficult. Scott says in his video outright "I don't want to talk about this, but since the initiative doesn't have the votes it needs, I'm going to talk about Thor."
I'm paraphrasing him but... that's the opening of his video.

It very much so is to drive drama to get people to talk about Thor again, so he can try to get big YouTubers to talk about it, because it gets people views, and then he can hope to get the signatures for it.
We can't "confirm" it but, there's not many other reasons with what he actually said and structured his video for this to have made really any amount of sense otherwise.

[hardy ingot]

I don't back the general idea behind it, that's the issue, I back some ideas behind it but not the general one because the generalization is what makes it a terrible idea 😄

[tight bramble]

Obligatory screw leandros

[tender field]

I really don't want to talk about SKG but I need to know. So, Thor knows that singleplayer games needing internet connection is a problem. The problem with SKG is that as it's written, it could also affect multiplayer games as well. Right?

[thorny cloud]

Well the general idea is to basically prevent studios from shutting down games that could otherwise be left playable, right?

[hardy ingot]

whoever thought of world generalization should be sued for crimes against humanity, I had to re-read it 5 times to fix my typo properly...

[jolly sky]

Thor knows that. Not sure Ross understood that

[hardy ingot]

general idea is to force the studios to make it so EVERY SINGLE GAME made in the future is left in a playable state when it shuts down servers and cannot be remotely denied access to

[tender field]

Yeah. Now I get where the confusion is...

[hardy ingot]

Which is a huge issue because it's not applicable to every kind of game in existence as it is currently worded

[placid plover]

hey chat, silly question: why do people think its fun to dunk on Thor? he didn't kill a man or commit an act of treason lol. he's just a guy doing fun game dev stuff

[hardy ingot]

But that is the target, as Ross made abundantly clear

[tight bramble]

-big shrug-

[placid plover]

(apologies if this seems ignorant. im not on social media that much)

[hardy ingot]

Because drama is king on internet

[edgy oar]

I think the funniest assumption is assuming lawmakers care about video games enough to make any kind of distinction between the different kinds of video games.

[coarse cairn]

98% sure it boils down to some crowds being attracted to drama like a moth to a flame

[soft vector]

Imo If you don't Like single Player Games that are online, then don't buy them....

[jolly sky]

If the Initiative was purely about making Login based single player games still accessible after the auth servers go down, that would have seen unanimous approval

[thorny cloud]

Or to release the server binaries, but that does come with its own issues.

Again, the problem here was always in execution. I understand that proposals like this have to be brief because there is a character limit, the EU doesn't want to have to sit through countless novel-length proposals. But that's also part of the game - you have to learn how to boil your proposal down to the simplest essence possible while still being specific.

[placid plover]

nice lol

[edgy oar]

BREAD

[brazen drift]

ME HATE BIG SUCCESSFUL WHO HAVE OPINION I DONT LIKE /sarcasm

[hardy ingot]

It's just not realistic to try and apply it to every game in existence. It has to be only applied to singleplayer games or it will never work

[placid plover]

BREAD

[indigo wadi]

cause it's the cool thing to do

clout

[blissful imp]

The cringe loli watcher on youtube replied to thors tweet.

[thorny cloud]

Which is why I agree with a lot of the sentiments here that it was always too broad/vague.

[indigo wadi]

shallowlives

any number of reasons

[teal zodiac]

im rooting for the next drama to at least have high quality. "The ferrets are actually AI?? See the truth behind the scam!!"

[edgy oar]

Wait he's still relevant?

[lunar moth]

Attention, and for influencers it is a way to drum up support by targeting people who are the "BBEG online of the week."
In Thor's case, he's just extremely robust and has built a solid enough community where ... he's not immune but he becomes a "popular" target because of his personality - folks want to essentially be the ones to "fell the giant."

[mossy timber]

I don't even think Ross was thinking about singple player games, he was focused on Live Service games such as The Crew. Honestly some live service games could be made in such a way end of life could be made to allow private servers or some solution if laws were made that the owner wouldn't lose claims to their IP or other legal issues, but Ross is for a "give me everything, one size fits all" solution in the writing.

[hardy ingot]

It was not vague, it was however absolutely broad and extremely oversimplified

[thick ledge]

i love the "this is too long take"

like you asked this dude to explain himself

[placid plover]

Lmao. I get being jealous of one's success, but being hateful about it? cringe

[thick ledge]

and he did

[tight bramble]

"I ain't readin allat" lol

[thick ledge]

and now thier mad that he explained himself in too much detail

[edgy oar]

because they never actually cared.

[indigo wadi]

then Ross should of said that in the initiative

[still quiver]

Yeah but actually though. People like drama and a villain. They hear things they don't like and go big mad liar make everything bad rawr

[edgy oar]

The goalposts move faster than an Formula One car

[hardy ingot]

Ross is actually extremely adamant about that he would not accept if it only applied to single-player games. Which is what made me dead set that I could never agree with his motion

[blissful imp]

not really... i only heard about what he does due to something else.

[tight bramble]

V10 is the best

[indigo wadi]

being terminally online on twitter is such a plague

[thick ledge]

why would you not accept that unless your motive was not what you state it is

🤔

[mossy timber]

didn't Nux become the most hated Vtuber (TM) after Sinder? why does he think his opinion matters to anyone?

[indigo wadi]

Whats a nux?

[thick ledge]

no one likes nux

[hardy ingot]

never has been

[placid plover]

I feel like with any influencer/creator nowadays always has a group of people trying to take them down bc jealousy

[thick ledge]

guy who farms vtuber drama

[edgy oar]

Nux farms drama in general

Trying to stay relevant.

[jolly sky]

Imagine if he did the Single Player Login route first, and it saw success.

And then he came back afterward with one about Live-Service games that was properly researched, and worked with developers to iron out that Initiative to make sure that it makes sense to do.

[thick ledge]

little internet parasite

[indigo wadi]

Ya know, i've been online since 1996. Not once did I ever think "i think today i'll campaign to cancel someone".

[thick ledge]

imo

[tight bramble]

LIP lol

[mossy timber]

The problem with being a drama-channel is you have to constantly farm drama and make sure each one is constantly bigger

[indigo wadi]

as much of a plague as he was, at least Keemstar made an effort

[thick ledge]

being a drama farm channel must be an absolutely miserable life

[edgy oar]

I hate drama channels so much

[placid plover]

yeah that's good. it sucks people just wake up and be hateful online all day every day lol

[lunar moth]

Sadly I don't think this has to do with jealousy.
I honestly think this is more about the "attention economy" meeting with an age old issue that everything online is a popularity contest. One can extrapolate that even further but, not something I wanna do right now.

[hardy ingot]

He insisted it has to be for ALL games. And because I played an MMO or two before and know how much they even cost and how often they fail and cause some of the biggest financial flops in industry, I would never agree to that.

Because that's asking for no MMO ever to be ever made again if we're raising their dev costs that are already in hundreds of millions on average

[indigo wadi]

It's gotta be exhausting

[mossy timber]

I imagine all the drama channels loved the fall of Illuminaughty, think that road out for a year

[thorny cloud]

I mean I'm all for canceling people because they are predators or criminals who expressly use their power to hurt other people, but not over some internet drama that started because two people had an argument lol

[thick ledge]

simply no one would make those kinds of games under those conditions and they know it

[indigo wadi]

does that include online muds? 🤔

[indigo wadi]

those people, just report em to the authorities. they'll handle the rest with enough evidence

[hardy ingot]

I would support the singleplayer one, not the one after because as long as goal is to make it so EVERY game has to have EOL plan to keep it fully functional, that's adding insane dev costs no matter what way you structure it

[placid plover]

fair. you dont have too and I won't force it. but damn people are crazy lol. Im gonna go play some games :D
got back into world of warcraft recently and the trial has been fun

[teal zodiac]

ok, i gave twitter a try
The first thing i saw on Thor's post was a complain about something that is literally written on the initiative page and he was taking "the most extreme reading of that phrase"

[thorny cloud]

No I'm not talking about legality, I'm saying that people like that absolutely deserve to be socially shunned as well as have legal action taken against them.

But I do not think this whole SKG situation is even close to one of those, so cancelling is ridiculous here, yes.

[teal zodiac]

can i close twitter now?

[thick ledge]

destroys indie games

in those genres

making your only option triple AZ

[hardy ingot]

You should never have opened it in the first place

[indigo wadi]

should of closed it yesterday

[thick ledge]

A