streamchat

[elder scaffold]

it looks almost human

[maiden talon]

Like ive said multiple times, any sort of initiative never fails by the doings of just one person, but I guess people cant understand that for some reason

[tight bramble]

The existence of gaslighting infers the existence of liquidlighting and solidlighting and plasmalighting.....

[teal zodiac]

not that i doubt but where was this said?

[lime vine]

If Helldivers 2 is a live service. How do people want to play that offline when the whole game is online and about teaming up.

[mossy timber]

Honestly I think people causing drama and harassing Thor instead of focusing on the movement is what did the damage

[jolly sky]

The drama caused by misguided and emotionally overwhelmed people

[white mica]

aand gas/liquid/solid/plasma darkening too

[hardy ingot]

go slap the xenos solo, surely nothing can go wrong!

[fluid dome]

Helldivers 2 with couch coop would be insane though....

[elder scaffold]

A ton of times in the twitch/youtube chat comments like ''You killed this movement!'' etc

[tight bramble]

I concur doctor

[indigo wadi]

Helldiver 2 feels like it'd be perfect for couch coop

[hazy storm]

Oh they're going to move the goal posts and demand the devs include AI teammates as a way to keep the game in a payable state

[indigo wadi]

naturally

[maiden talon]

"BUT AI WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTERER"

[jolly sky]

Imagine instead of Ross just, posting the initiative for all to see, he reached out to developers in the industry to make sure he got his wording straight, and learn what would actually need to change if SKG went into effect.

(In other words, far more than he betted on)

[maiden talon]

no, shut up, go back to grade school

[mossy timber]

I question, did Ross ask any game devs at all to look over SKG? Like anyone in the gaming industry?

[polar sandal]

I honestly think there needs to be a calm, collected discussion directly between Ross and Thor on stream. I think that would help actually resolve this whole conflict. No insults, no swearing, no calling it "shit", just simple, guided communication for all the points of both parties.

[lime vine]

It still could have that. Its perfect for it

[polar sandal]

Although Thor has said he doesn't wanna do that

[indigo wadi]

What did the dmg was Ross not actually leading the initiative

[fluid dome]

People be malding about End of Life plans for games but nobody seems to care about games that are still trapped on legacy hardware

[jolly prism]

This video literally just jumped at me on Youtube, so yeah about that 💀

[jolly sky]

It's not going to happen, and if it were, that would need to happen in private, away from the shit slinging community

[indigo wadi]

Would you if a community harassed you to no end?

[grim pine]

Thor saying he doesn't want to have a dialogue with Ross because he thinks ross is disingenuous, despite ross saying "hey you've misunderstood that" is irresponsible at best.

In his position, whether he believes its the truth or not, he has a responsibility to due diligence. Not doing such is akin to gaslighting.

[teal zodiac]

oh my sweet lord no way

[tight bramble]

I want a game with AI, but with the super early gen stuff. Like SUPER jank fingers and hair and eyes. Make it a horror game.

[lime vine]

the petition assassin... dude 💀

[grim pine]

Private with a mediator, yes absolutely

[mossy timber]

this kind of shit is why I started using "Do not recommend this channel" on Youtube

[fluid dome]

Based Kakyoin enjoyer

[indigo wadi]

and not interested

[maiden talon]

please tell me how not talking to someone when said person doesnt want to talk to said person is irresponsible?

[lime vine]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-kakyoin-polnareff-secret-handshake-anime-gif-14180916

[hardy ingot]

Just google piratesoftware today 😄

[teal zodiac]

and they chose a very cute and chill picture of Thor! this is amazing

[polar sandal]

that's something that just happens every time drama happens, and something as a content creator you should always be prepared for. It's not good, but it's unfortunately what you'll have to deal with because of some idiots being horrible people and sending death threats

[mossy timber]

You need to look up the definition of gaslighting I think

[maiden talon]

im an adult, if i dont want to talk to someone, im not gonna talk to them, its called having free will

[fluid dome]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-rerorero-kakyoin-cherry-emerald-gif-21879338

[grim pine]

I gotta go, I made a post on it earlier if you wanna search it. If not, I got a couple words.

"With great power comes great responsibility" - Ben Parker

[hardy ingot]

I saw like 8 videos just shitting on PirateSoftware about the initiative

Which I find hilarious because people are more interested in that than fighting for the initiative 😄

[rocky venture]

https://tenor.com/view/kakyoin-shades-smirk-jojos-bizarre-adventures-jjb-gif-15164376

[lime vine]

https://tenor.com/view/kakyoin-gif-22778012

[indigo wadi]

If a community is hostile to me, I am in no way obligated to talk to it's head. Because if that's the community, the head is no better.

[maiden talon]

nah, you cant just claim someone is a gaslighter and then dip. ill expect an answer from you later, otherwise, your words hold no weight whatsoever

[flat moat]

Rent's due for the react channels

[grim pine]

You need to look up the definition of akin.

Aihjt bye.

[indigo wadi]

that's the internet

[maiden talon]

you can either answer the question, or admit youre just here to bait

[polar sandal]

It's not the community, it's a few vocal idiots in the community. That's not the same thing.

[hardy ingot]

just waiting for that Asmongold 3 hour reaction, I'm sure it will be very productive

[polar sandal]

there are idiots in both parties

[mossy timber]

saying something is "akin to X" does not mean you can put whatever you want in X

[jolly sky]

It's far more than just a few

[teal zodiac]

My honest take is that those people need to learn how to make better drama thumbnails

[indigo wadi]

so over 100+ is just a bit? okay...

and the fact that it's been happening for some time? okay

[nova bough]

ew drama channels

[hardy ingot]

but... effort

[maiden talon]

"its a few vocal idiots" ahh yeah, so the thousands the mods have banned arent real idiots, just fake ones

hear that stream banned people? GlisteringLime doesnt think youre a real idiot

[indigo wadi]

Sorry but when a community, over the course of months, continually harasses a CCer, then that's most likely the majority.

[thick ledge]

I've seen death threats and it's bot a small amount of them

[lime vine]

that tom dark thumbnail looks like thor got made into a mii LOL

[hardy ingot]

How very gentlemanly

[thick ledge]

Not

[polar sandal]

There was a ton of splash damage, I know a few people myself who have been banned despite asking actually genuine questions

[cyan widget]

I was out for 10 minutes, is it over yet?

[maiden talon]

again, asking genuine questions wont get you banned

[nova bough]

come back in like a week

[hardy ingot]

We're on turn 2

[maiden talon]

Zaf, will asking genuine questions get you banned?

as a former mod, I trust your response

[elder scaffold]

same..

[lime vine]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-jjba-jojo's-bizarre-bizarre-adventure-gif-5473939023200082164

[jolly prism]

I have had some pointed comments both here and on Twitch and was never even timed out. If you don't go out of your way to be a shitter I imagine it's hard to get the hammer (people saying mana gem count here too).

[thick ledge]

No, unless the question is about thors toes

In which case maybe

[indigo wadi]

he's an undercover mod 😉

[flat moat]

Hopefully it will never happen

[cyan widget]

https://tenor.com/view/sweating-nervous-wreck-gif-12986085083782148824

[hardy ingot]

I am 100% sure it's gonna be there within like 2 days at most

If nothing else then like 15 clips of one

Tbf the clips tend to at least be funny 😄

[maiden talon]

Me not trying to get banned challenge - Difficulty: EXXXTREME!!!

[jolly sky]

It's not about disagreeing. It's about how you disagree. Your wording matters

[elder scaffold]

speaking of asmongold, ive seen people on reddit (i know) say that because thor talked and made a video with asmongold about ashes that theyre best buds

[mossy timber]

Going to say I wouldn't be surprised if troll communities have latched onto this past and present events. I remember when they took advantage of a internet kerfluffle in 2014 and it was very very bad...

[jolly sky]

If you just say "Thor why did you kill SKG" then you're gonna get the hammer for example

[indigo wadi]

oh lord

[mossy timber]

yeah keep seeing this argument "Well he talked to Asmon!"

[sand solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/why-him-larid-throw-chicken-gif-9554821

[polar sandal]

Just because you didn't get punished doesn't mean others didn't. The people in question that I know were asking genuine questions were not hostile about it.

[elder scaffold]

Oh hai

[sand solstice]

How's it going

[mossy timber]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-minecraft-movie-a-minecraft-movie-steve-jack-black-gif-4079785775268000209

[jolly sky]

There are areas of the internet (which shall go un-named) that are solely dedicated to literally killing people off through targeted harassment, and they've been here since before WoW drama.

And word to the wise, they're in the Discord server too.

[jolly prism]

Do you have an example?

[elder scaffold]

its going alright :> what about you?

[hardy ingot]

I mean, even if that was the case I still don't see why it would be a concern for anyone 😄

[muted robin]

tbh all actual arguments aside i hope Thor is doing okay mentally after yet another round of this. he seems very resilient and well put together, but after a notable youtuber just committed suicide a couple days ago after online harrassment and how many people didn't know....... i mean i'm not saying it but you can't really use "they don't seem bothered so they're not affected" when it comes to content creators online being flamed

[elder scaffold]

Rip fox lady 😭

[sand solstice]

About to go to the dentist to get fillings done. So I'm 😭

[elder scaffold]

oh no!

[elder scaffold]

many fillings?

[hardy ingot]

😢 Youtube torments me every refresh now

[sand solstice]

A few today and then another appointment to get the rest

[flat moat]

RIP what a great person

[sand solstice]

Take care of your teeth That's very important and it's expensive if you f****** your teeth

[muted robin]

but yes hopefully thor has a support network via the mods and personal family and friends etc, we can only offer generalized support

[neat fable]

It's really taxing mentally to know you're in the wrong but being too stubborn to admit it, I hope he comes to terms with where he made mistakes and tries to mend some bridges with the gaming community as a whole.

[polar sandal]

It's irrelevant, but I am most certain that those people were innocent (and there were a ton of people who were innocent and affected). There was a ton of splash damage from all of the chaos

[elder scaffold]

Why people would target and bully a rescue is beyond me... >.>

[elder scaffold]

Can confirm (i have none atm)

[muted robin]

bruh this is such an out of pocket response lmao

[maiden talon]

What if, I just made a whole bunch of ONLINE ONLY games, each with only a year long lifespan

[frozen sonnet]

Bruh

[tight bramble]

"Look, I want to be right. In order for that to happen, you need to be wrong. I can't accept both of us being right, and I'm not going to accept being wrong. So either you are wrong or you are even more wrong."

-idiots on the internet

[sand solstice]

Ok bye got to go 👋

[jolly sky]

Oh boy here we go the "just take accountability" crowd

[hardy ingot]

What's worse is most of them seem to be rescue too, they slandered for funding...

[thick ledge]

This event however is an excellent opportunity to clean my discovery page of sleaze

[muted robin]

someone getting messages shitting on them by the hundreds of thousands
"it's so hard to acknowledge you're wrong i know get better soon uwu"

[mossy timber]

kindness costs nothing, being an ass out in the open costs everything

[maiden talon]

like, the whole purpose of the game is you only being able to play it for a year. if you dont get enjoyment out of it, you didnt play it enough, and thats your fault, not mine

[jolly sky]

The truth does not need to be kind. It only needs to be true.

[maiden talon]

I feel like thats a great idea

[neat fable]

Yeah, accountability is a hard thing to take. I genuinely wish the best for him mentally, hope he can overcome this and grow from it.

[thick ledge]

Loll

[polar sandal]

I would definitely like to see this happen though

[jolly sky]

Would love to see you point out each and every case where you think he's been wrong, btw

[mossy timber]

accountability is not a "I DEMAND YOU TAKE IT" sort of thing

[jolly sky]

I'll wait

[thick ledge]

No

[nova bough]

....oh my. that is a take. death threats over this subject are not warrented. massive harrassment over these things is never an answer.

[elder scaffold]

Show us where he's been wrong :> we'll wait :>

[jolly prism]

Why would it not be relevant? In that case *I am most certain * that the grass is actually blue and no I will not provide a screenshot, that would not be relevant.

[thick ledge]

People pushing for a public discussion are absolutely trying to farm it for entertainment

[maiden talon]

have you taken accountability 100% of the times whenever some random person thought you did something wrong?

[thick ledge]

Not that kind of streamer

[neat fable]

Pretty much 100% of what he thinks Stop Killing Games is, but there is roughly two hours of long-form videos on exactly how he was wrong if you care to watch.

[indigo wadi]

Or people can accept that people are blunt because that's just how they talk. People need to stop being sugarcoated

[hardy ingot]

Only time that would be worth shit was BEFORE the initiative started so it could be written in a way that doesn't completely cripple developers til the end of time, now a month before its failure is a bit too late

[maiden talon]

if you havent taken accountability 100% of the time, you cant be talking about "taking accountability"

[frozen sonnet]

[indigo wadi]

Grow up.

[neat fable]

What did I say that was immature?

[maiden talon]

Moral, im still waiting for an answer to my question

[mossy timber]

Eat an entire bag of feces because that's not "blunt"

[polar sandal]

I don't want to provide the identities of the people involved in order to prevent any harassment of those people. Those people, if they want to be appealed, should ask the mods about that.

[neat fable]

It's all giving, 'blind fanboy' vibes in here but that's fair because this is his discord.

[indigo wadi]

The fact that you choose to ignore what Thor has said.

[jolly sky]

Except that he was only raising points that the LAWS AROUND COPYRIGHT AND IP LAW would have to also fundamentally change, and SKG wanted things that are fundamentally impossible to ask for and would only lead to far worse things in the future

[thick ledge]

Love when people get verbose and they think that makes thier point better

[neat fable]

What did he say? Did he apologize for being wrong?

[thick ledge]

Reddit essay writers of the world unite

[indigo wadi]

If someone is gonna be garbage to me, I'll give it back

[muted robin]

I love when people only talk about "blind fanboying" as if "blind haterism" isn't also a thing lmao

[hardy ingot]

So does Ross's crowd, fair's fair

[elder scaffold]

Where was he wrong?

[maiden talon]

if you cant take accountability, then you cant talk about accountability, case and point, mic has been dropped

[indigo wadi]

Apologize for what? He hasn't been wrong on the SKG.

[muted robin]

"i'm angry and negative therefore i'm objective"

[mossy timber]

Oh this attitude, I am familiar "I shit in your house on your table, why are you not respecting me?"

[dire burrow]

Theres no need to insult people.

[neat fable]

He on a fundamental level very obviously does not understand what the movement is about? That's not even in question.

[thick ledge]

It's literally an opinion lmao

[indigo wadi]

If someone comes into Thor's chat and is disrespectful to him, he's not obligated to be respectful to them. Pretty simple concept.

[thick ledge]

Obviously it is

[teal zodiac]

They really need to step up their game...
"Is PirateSoftware really the cousin of Count Dracula??"

[cyan widget]

https://tenor.com/view/wynn-gif-19745551

[muted robin]

going 'being wrong is mentally taxing, hope he gets well soon' in response to people talking about the actions of other people going into outright mass harrassment is soooooo cringe

[indigo wadi]

2 videos explaining his take on the matter, but I guess watching those 2 videos is too much

[jolly sky]

The highlighted section is something that cannot be done in a fundamental level with many games

[hardy ingot]

He did understand it. He pointed out in his videos how it would have to be worded for him to agree with it.

[livid path]

Remember guys Thor, the community, and everyone can have options and it’s ok if you don’t agree or they’re wrong to any degree. Not all discussions need to come to an agreement

[neat fable]

@minor nymph Anyway man, wish you the best, but the sooner you apologize for your mistakes and make amends- owning up to your faults, the sooner the internet can put this all behind them. Best wishes.

[muted robin]

irrespective of whether thor is right or wrong about this (as is anyone) blaming the stress of a situation on the person just being cringe and wrong and not the objective fact that getting mass flamed is difficult is... lol

[indigo wadi]

No but we don't have to tolerate nonsense attitudes either.

[jolly sky]

Alright

[hardy ingot]

That's not "both" tho, that's "all" akshually!

[frozen sonnet]

You’re so cringe man

[polar sandal]

here's one of them (in reference to a part of a stream)

[jolly sky]

Not willing to engage with any discussion, just shit flinging. Alright

[neat fable]

https://tenor.com/view/ross-scott-freemans-mind-game-dungeon-crew-driving-gif-16785233

[frozen nimbus]

This basically sums up most of my reaction to tons of this

[thick ledge]

"His opinion is objectively wrong, hope he's doing ok mentally and takes accountability for his SIN 😇 "

[polar sandal]

but I do not see how this is helpful to the point

[livid path]

Yes that’s why this is a place to discuss things civilly and intellectually without insults

[polar sandal]

screenshots without identity are irrelevant, and I'm not going to go out of my way to reveal people's identities

[maiden talon]

I imagine that legally, that point would be one of the HARDEST hurdles to overcome. "hey, we know you helped us market this game, but we dont want to update it anymore, we dont need you, goodbye...HEY EVERYONE, HERES THE GAME AND SERVER DOWNLOADS OR WHATEVER"

[thick ledge]

There's a word for it

Care bullying?

Where you talk down like thier a child being punished

[nova bough]

honestly i find their wording very passive aggressive, and generally not ok to say. but thats my opinion

[jolly sky]

Care Trolling IIRC (in the internet sense)

[indigo wadi]

a gif of nothing? okay

[elder scaffold]

and he's gone

byebye, we wont miss him

[polar sandal]

wat

[frozen nimbus]

Anyways

[lime vine]

i call this face the "wishing for a slap on the face". I lost hope in dramafarmers a long time ago. The worst ones are when its literally a picture of the person they want to talk about. Zero effort.

[polar sandal]

who's gone

[indigo wadi]

what a facial reaction

[jolly sky]

"Yea we're just going to hand over the entire game. It's models, its code etc"

Yea that ain't gonna happen

[frozen nimbus]

So what's currently happening now? Im not caught up lol

[cyan widget]

DDrama

[livid path]

Thor said he’s putting together a big post a while ago, but the duration of time that has passed since then is scary. Bro is writing a novel 💀

[jolly prism]

Appreciate the effort. Just because they say it was positive and constructive does not have to mean it actually was but with all the chaos mods did probably shoot a few strays.

[polar sandal]

oh is it the moral guy

[indigo wadi]

same as yesterday

[frozen nimbus]

👍

[cyan widget]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[hardy ingot]

What, wai u no gib freebies?

[elder scaffold]

Stop killing games failed and people angy at thor cuz ''his opinion is wrong''

[cyan widget]

Thor writting right now

[thick ledge]

Let's not get personally insulting, it degrades us to insult people's appearance

[frozen nimbus]

Really funny reading some comments on videos like Charlie's

[cyan widget]

You are correct, My bad

[maiden talon]

the only morals I like are good ones, and the ones growing from mycelium

[lime vine]

[maiden talon]

I guess you could call me based

[frozen sonnet]

Based on what?

[frozen nimbus]

"How dare people be banned for being rude and aggressive 😔" stuff like this lol

Opened up reddit for a bit and it was not good either

[thick ledge]

It's easy to let frustration boil over into petty insults but I like to think we are all above that

[lime vine]

90% is about Thor and 10% is about something else.

[maiden talon]

hopefully Carbon

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/punished-lion-the-attempt-on-my-life-has-left-me-scarred-gif-11286549778958476706

[nova bough]

thats gonna be a bad time. reddit haaaates thor.

[maiden talon]

reddit hates everyone

[elder scaffold]

yall look like goblins cuz yall are goblins :>

[vast pilot]

damn its got 2mil views

I haven't watched charlie in forever

[frozen nimbus]

Looked at it for a second and lost the rest of my brain cells

[jolly prism]

There is no drama like Pirate drama.

[jolly sky]

This whole debacle is just misinformed people not understanding the sheer level of things that protect all developers, big or small from individuals being able to own their game, and thinking that SKG is just "a switch that can be flicked", and getting angry at Thor for pointing those things out

[hardy ingot]

unlike the initiative

[nova bough]

RIP braincells

[vast pilot]

eh, it got a boost

[mossy timber]

I remember the Jocat "I like girls" drama

[nova bough]

Sir, i am clearly a cat.

[vast pilot]

not surprising

[elder scaffold]

what reddit page did you look at

[hardy ingot]

yeah it got like 10k I think or 15k since last night

[frozen nimbus]

Livestreamfail

[jolly sky]

God that was so dumb

[frozen nimbus]

Saw someone mention it

[hardy ingot]

But they need... a tad more than that considering they got a month

[jolly prism]

Poor guy, that drama cost me a few braincells.

[thick ledge]

My personal theory is that this was a hail Mary to drag more attention to the petition

[lime vine]

Cat goblin.

[elder scaffold]

ah yes, those love to fuel a drama

[thick ledge]

Get messy and drama-y

[frozen sonnet]

You’re not wrong

[hardy ingot]

Well yes, it was, Ross even said so in his video

[indigo wadi]

stop it, love yourself

[frozen sonnet]

It’s got the attention again

[mossy timber]

worst part is I think Jocat still thinks he did something wrong to deserve it

[vast pilot]

more like 50k since it was below 450k before ross's video

[thick ledge]

That's gross

[frozen nimbus]

I regret it deeply

[vast pilot]

and now it has 500k

[frozen nimbus]

Never again

[cyan widget]

Well, going to go out. Thor i hope you get through this drama well.
See you guys on the Stream

[jolly sky]

Hell no, if anything he was a proponent of support for all women

[frozen nimbus]

👋

[thick ledge]

Your personally attacking someone and dragging them through the mud to get more signatures because the merit of your petition wasn't good enough

[muted robin]

the implication is also that it's okay to harass someone as long as they're "wrong" and once they've been determined to be "wrong" the onus is on them to "change their ways and mend bridges" in order to not be harassed

[hardy ingot]

I checked after Ross's & SomeOrdinaryGamers tbh, it was 470 or so, now it's 500 with Moist releasing a vid in between

[polar sandal]

I honestly will be supporting SKG, that's my choice, I think it's a positive initiative personally, but y'all can disagree if you want

[vast pilot]

same lol

[nova bough]

and we will! its fine to disagree

[livid path]

Bro if I ever see someone beefing with Jocatt over something like that irl istg

😭

[hardy ingot]

If only the rest of people supporting it got that message 😄

[indigo wadi]

16.9 mill, 20k sigs, great ratio

[jolly sky]

Do that all you want, that's no problem.

The problem is the hand waving away of serious issues further down the line for all makers of games down the line (and abuse being hurled against someone for merely pointing that out)

[frozen nimbus]

Yes, we will respect you for it. Seeing as you are ALSO being respectful, which SOME people wont be

[thick ledge]

Your within your right to do so, go for it, it doesn't make it right to try to ruin someone to boost attention to it

[livid path]

Yeah I disagree, but respect your choice to

[lime vine]

As long as you are not hostile to others its alright. It was always like this. Thor himself said it not once that you dont need to follow him.

[hardy ingot]

Question is if it's going to cause anything for next weeks but unless they keep it up it's kinda doomed, and I suspect it was a one-time trick

[indigo wadi]

only thing it'll cause is drama

[mossy timber]

people conveniently leave that out so they can claim he was "killing SKG"

[polar sandal]

I agree with one of the main points that was fairly alarming, and that is the case of abuse if a game is attacked so much that it's no longer feasible to run it, therefore having to give server software

[frozen nimbus]

Some people always will try and find some reason to justify hate, unfortunately

[livid path]

But on the drama though, oh my god I’ve never seen such foul shit before. Like I knew it was bad but until Thor had given some examples of what people were saying I had no idea just how bad it was, like that stuff hadn’t even crossed my mind because it was so insane

[polar sandal]

however, I do not think that's very likely

[hardy ingot]

yeah, which will pass in a week anyway, with the nature of drama

[thick ledge]

That happened with a game called dread hunger already @polar sandal Chinese players DDOS the game for months and it wad forced to close down

[mossy timber]

"OMG A PERSON COMMENTING ON THINGS NEGATIVELY THIS IS NOT ALLOWED!"

[thick ledge]

It happens all the time

[polar sandal]

interesting

[teal zodiac]

ok, in all seriousness, and not only about this situation, i wouldnt know what to do, PR wise on Thor's place. It's less about arguments and more about when people start going for your work or things you care about.
Getting downvoted on steam with your game, getting reports on twitch, even reviewed on glassdoor. You cant ignore it, you cant delay your reaction and seems like a never ending battle of bans and dmg control

[jolly sky]

Man with knowledge points out very large issues with SKG

"He supports the killing of games!!"

[frozen nimbus]

Lol I was about to say this

[lime vine]

Its the internet. Cutting everyone out of context or leaving out important stuff... Just for some internet points.

[hardy ingot]

How dares he!

[thick ledge]

Now imagine you could do that and then take the game away from the devs too

[hardy ingot]

He should've waited silently like a good boy to not oppose it until it's too late!

[frozen nimbus]

I am so disgusted by the fact people have the need to ALSO review bomb heartbound, the game thors worked on for years. Like thats not part of the conversation, we arnt talking about heartbound we are talking about STK

[livid path]

That’s just him expressing his opinion. I was there for the streams and he was asked about it literally dozens of times an hour

Every stream

[thick ledge]

Expressing your opinion on something is manipulation

[livid path]

For weeks

[grim pine]

Goddamn it. :(

[jolly sky]

Gee, I wonder how he came across those talking points

When there have been multiple times where people in support of SKG confuse what SKG actually wants

[mossy timber]

Your entire point is not "he disagrees or misunderstands it" but he does so as a "large person on the internet"

[thick ledge]

And people spammed asking for his opinion

[hardy ingot]

Simple, ignore it, it's drama, it will be gone by the end of the week

[thick ledge]

For weeks

[tight bramble]

Me reading this chat, knowing I have to get up and get ready for work and miss out on something juicy.

[frozen nimbus]

Word frfr /s

[nova bough]

go to sleep

[polar sandal]

heartbound has its own issues, it has been largely abandoned and didn't deliver on its promised original deadline, kept getting delayed and is in a massive state of limbo for the actual full release of the game

[jolly prism]

Main perks of home office - memes and juicy drama.

[indigo wadi]

it wasn't abandoned

[livid path]

The deadline may be valid, but it’s definitely not abandoned

[hardy ingot]

Is he really that tall?

[flat moat]

Bro it gets monthly updates

[indigo wadi]

It's in EA with monthly updates

[polar sandal]

largely abandoned is the key word

[frozen nimbus]

Yes while it has its own issues, it was STILL being review bombed

[teal zodiac]

you can ignore when you are not so public but in some cases your work is public and can also be easily targeted, the dmg can be permanent

[indigo wadi]

it was not abandoned

[frozen nimbus]

It went down to 16% after the stuff

[jolly sky]

largely abandoned

Gets updates every month

Please get your opinions from your own brain rather than from the mouths of others

[frozen nimbus]

Thats not a coincidence

[grim pine]

Maybe we don't deserve SKG if this is how people on the internet are gonna act :(

[indigo wadi]

it wasn't communicated that it took a backseat while Thor blew up

[teal zodiac]

its not really a highschool drama without consequences when reaches things that matter to you or your work

[livid path]

Actually on that I played through heartbound recently (what’s out obviously) and I mean yeah it’s not done, but I really loved it

[indigo wadi]

But to say it was abandoned (and modifiers don't count here) is incorrect

[hardy ingot]

Nah, no such thing as permanent, just keep making good content and it will pass, drama seekers get bored if they don't get attention and good content will keep you afloat

[mossy timber]

Dear god, if Taylor Swift is wrong about something are people going to drown her twitter feed? Or celebs and streamers not allowed to have opinions and sometimes gasp be wrong about things without getting the world upset?

[indigo wadi]

It literally says on the page that it's in early access.

[tight bramble]

Me seeing the reactions to the first meme

[polar sandal]

to my knowledge, the updates are absolutely abysmal compared to what would've been necessary to finish the game in 2017 or 2018, which I believe was the original deadline for the game

[indigo wadi]

AoC is in EA, Shopfront Citizen is in EA

[hardy ingot]

Just you wait when some president does something controversial!

oh wait

[lime vine]

Well yeah but its better that Thor realized that he made a mistake there.

[jolly sky]

Then your knowledge is flawed, and skewed.

[livid path]

If that’s true than yeah you’re valid there, just wanted to clarify he still works on it a lot

[indigo wadi]

you know what? Life happens, things change, deadlines get pushed back.

[mossy timber]

Which president hasn't?

[thick ledge]

I feel bad for the people supporting skg for good reasons and getting drowned out by absolute hordes of bad actors, I've seen the behavior of skg supporters here for the last 10 months and it's never been acceptable

[hardy ingot]

:>

[jolly prism]

It has been in early access for *years * not even including the Kickstarter. For what is comparatively easy game to make. It is definitely taking way too long and even Thor admitted that he buried the lead here when he blew up in popularity.

[dire burrow]

Do you have the game and are reading the patch notes?

[polar sandal]

the problem is that the game has been pushed back so far that people are getting mad about it being delayed for so long
what you have to remember is that this game had a kickstarter campaign

[indigo wadi]

but the fact of the matter is, Heartbound is NOT abandoned and is getting monthly updates. If you can't accept that, then move on.

[jolly sky]

Except he hasn't done that, and that's another talking point spouted by haters that you are now also spreading

[flint raft]

Hey so just wanna point something out that I realized, both Ross and Thor are correct.
They don’t really see that they’re essentially saying the same thing just in different ways.

I think they should discuss this privately and settle it, I don’t think either of them thought about how this is being seen as drama farming from both sides.

[mossy timber]

I wish upon you a sudden rise to fame before it comes crashing down around you from one slip of the tounge

[frozen sonnet]

[thick ledge]

I think Ross was well aware of the toxic part of the skg movement and decided to weapon ice it to scrape up suppkrt

[indigo wadi]

You're complaining about a $10 game in access

[hardy ingot]

Ah, damn, I for a moment feared you're here because you care about the initiative, ufff

That's a relief!

[livid path]

Thor is an extremely busy person, his attention is split between a dozen things at all times

[flat moat]

Heartbound as an rpg requires a lot of writing for each and every path taken as well as requires a lot of emotional input

[lime vine]

The internet doesn't deserve it. People treat it like its a weapon against everyone.

[jolly prism]

Because it's $10 it cannot be criticized?

[thick ledge]

There are kickstarter games that get abandoned, this isn't one of them. That money is long gone I'm sure

[flint raft]

I don’t think anyone is saying that

[indigo wadi]

and I can understand the frustration, but again, the game is in EARLY ACCESS.

[buoyant arrow]

I support Dwarf Fortress. That game will never ever be done. A few years for a game is nothing to me.

[mossy timber]

And then there is Mighty No 9, I wish that got abandoned

[dire burrow]

Guy straight up joined to directly insult Thor

Neato

[teal zodiac]

imagine it reaches a point where some people cross the line and go for the ferret channel. Again, not on this particular case but any case that can happen in the future. Its all public, easily reachable, easily mass reportable and etc

[jolly prism]

What was his point then?

[indigo wadi]

it can get criticized, but at points, it's being unfairly criticized.

[hardy ingot]

Dammit I didn't manage to read the thing he was replying to me, it sounded hilarious as I was reading it 😄

[jolly sky]

Thor has had to set up an entire business,
a Charity,
a Stream,
moving and owning a house,
his job at Offbrand,

within a very short amount of time

and thats just the ones I can remember

[polar sandal]

No, the game was put in early access because Thor wasn't able to meet the required deadlines. It has been going in early access for a long time now.

[earnest mirage]

some also responded to shaye's ferret posts that thor reposted and insulted thor on that.
the same also go to other influencers thor interacted with, like bao, primeagen, etc. and comment on them as well.

[flint raft]

Don’t know but I don’t think they was saying cheap games can’t be criticized

[jolly prism]

Fair

[sterile nexus]

Okay, I like a challenge 🙂 I look forward to you picking it apart, Genuinely. Maybe I'll learn something took awhile to write up in between work.

Functionale and Playable is the goal. Ideal functionality is a nice to have. Also im not a developer of this nature so these are generalizations but not anything insane or unattainable.

What stops functioning if the servers must go?
Presumably the following: The Game Master, Some player security services, matchmaking, and community goals, live universe map.

One benefit to helldivers as the medium for this, its hosted locally, using the servers to maintain accuracy and consistency. This is evidenced by players quitting causing hosting migrations. So Players already host sessions and are just supported by the server. Ideally Sever this dependance in an EoL patch, balance objectives based on single user or small user number (up to 4) and rebalance enemy aggressive number fitting to this as well. Some work but not enormous.

Game Master - Replace with a controller AI (not an LLM im not insane. This is likely a system controller already that just takes cues from the Game Master in the form of:
Whos attacking?
Starting Where?
In what number?
What is the target?
On what timeline?
Plus additional options for surprises.
Encode the AI controller to do this on the game masters behalf plus a failsafe AI that can scale it up or down to keep it fun (or not thats an ideal piece.

Security Services
These are ideal to have but not required for functional and playable, integrate Steam Peer to peer (or, as I presume it already is integrated, rely on it directly). And other equivalents for other systems like Playstation Network. Crossplay wuld be nice but that not needed to satisfy the requirements set forth by SKG

Matchmaking
Gone, use friends systems noted in the above comment to connect direct to your friends, or other players.

Community Goals
Scale down to locally satisfiable goals, with teams of 1-4. The stats will shrink and the goals will no longer be driven by community

Universe Map
Runs locally on your personal saved game instead of community wide on a server.

This all might degrade certain things like consistent enemy positioning between players (think of trash mods in old school PSP era Monster Hunter. Your friends could see small enemies in different places that you would, but contribute to damaging its health communally). Not ideal as a worst case scenario but is still functional and playable.

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/started-blasting-gun-eyeglasses-so-anyway-i-started-blasting-gif-16955226

[lime vine]

Its not a finished game? I didnt know that.

[hardy ingot]

holy

[flat moat]

Took him a year to get that all sorted and get back into form

[tight bramble]

I was there Gandalf. I was there, 3 thousand years ago. When you had to pay 5 dollars to play PoE. I was there when the strength of Rust faded.

[sterile nexus]

sorry for the WALL

[indigo wadi]

Okay, and? things change. That's a part of life

[buoyant arrow]

They working on adding a magic system right now.

[sterile nexus]

😄

[wet storm]

You know what a good game is?

Cataclysm

[buoyant arrow]

Aw man, I've been tempted.

[indigo wadi]

at least Thor recognized that it needed to be put into EA.

[wet storm]

Both Dark Days Ahead and the Bright Nights fork

[indigo wadi]

instead of just abandoning it.

[jolly sky]

If you think that just happens and can be just left, then you are sorely mistaken. All of that takes constant effort to maintain and do. All of that, on top of making Heartbound

[livid path]

That sounds like a lot of work on the devs end to make possible, so why should they have to do that?

[fluid dome]

I come back to the chat and GlisteringMelon is attacking Heartbound for.... reasons. Cool.

[mossy timber]

man I lost my train of thought

[thick ledge]

I feel this discussion has got wildly off track to "here's a list of everything I think Thor has done wrong" is this not about skg and the wave of attacks? Those people arnt leaving negative reviews because of the state of the game, they're leaving them because of skg

[hardy ingot]

simple question, who's gonna pay for all that extra development cost?

[buoyant arrow]

ALso sounds like a game I wouldn't wanna play anymore anyways.

[lime vine]

I always wanted that game just I can't pay for shit. Good to know its still unfinished. I will still probably get it one day.

[polar sandal]

doesn't change the fact that he did, inevitably, not finish it in the required timeline. You can accept it and be okay with it, but that doesn't mean Thor didn't push it back a long time to the point where it's starting to make people upset the game isn't even close to being finished

[flat moat]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it took him a year and that's a lot done in a single year

[indigo wadi]

heck, I asked Thor about the lack of communication with regards to heartbound development before he committed to monthly updates.

[frozen nimbus]

I think people are missing the whole point of heartbound issue rn, the game is getting review BOMBED, people arnt actually leaving bad reviews because they have a real criticism, they are copy and pasting the same thing with 20 min of gameplay, and then just refunding the game

[teal zodiac]

im not talking about public image, im talking about review bombing Heartbound for example. Yes, the dmg is pretty permanent. Can it be mitigated? yes, kinda, but still its dmg. Your facebook page or twitch can be mass reported, among other things. Its so EASY to hurt a business that is so public

all you need is ill intended people

[jolly sky]

OH I see, yea exactly

[indigo wadi]

Okay...and?

[dire burrow]

Do you have any evidence to back up the claim that Thor put heartbound into early access because he "wasn't able to meet the required deadlines"

[livid path]

Yeah a ton of the appeal is taken out, but again mostly why should the devs have to do that when it would take thousands of dev hours?

[fluid dome]

I'm so tired, boss. I can't run no more.

[flint raft]

Look, here’s a harsh fact.
They need to settle this, it’s being blown way out of proportion.

I’ve seen Ross’ video, Charlie’s video, and Thor’s clips about it.
Both Thor and Ross are correct but are latching onto different things so it makes it appear like they’re on opposing sides.

[indigo wadi]

Like whats your point here

[buoyant arrow]

The ASCII version is still free to play and being maintained in parallel, believe it or not. But it's a doozy to figure out, I never managed.

[hardy ingot]

Just contact steam about that thing they give games to hide review bombing

In this case it's very easy to prove

[wet storm]

I don't wanna go too far into detail regarding this current subject because it's as unproductive as it gets. I just wanna play vydia.

But it's not normal for online communities to have this much drama this frequently for this long.

[jolly sky]

All of your talking points are coming from someone elses mouths without verification or true understanding of what is entailed. I've not seen a single original thought come from you

[polar sandal]

That is true to some degree, however, SKG isn't the only reasoning for the bad reviews

[buoyant arrow]

Agreed. That could bankkrupt the studio, having to do that at the end of life when there's minimal income.

[fluid dome]

I went out with the girlfriend today :)

[wet storm]

I think a level of introspection on the way we're behaving is in order

[frozen sonnet]

Hell yeah!!!!!!!

[thick ledge]

This only really gets given to BIG titles

[livid path]

It won’t be finished till the two dudes making it get too old or pass away. It’s their life

[polar sandal]

I'm not at fault if you're blind.

[jolly sky]

Literally not just me that has said this. If multiple people are saying the same thing, then it has some weight

[thick ledge]

Why are we throwing insults now

[teal zodiac]

not always that easy, and im not only talking about steam, its in many angles. Im not sure if you ever passed or had to help someone passing throw something like this but its not at all that easy

[livid path]

Tbf Dan has been pretty provocative/passive aggressive

[wet storm]

You realised he's responding to an insult yeah?

Two wrongs don't make a right but dogpiling is against the server's rules

[buoyant arrow]

Thor's recent stream with Dr. K adressed part of that issue if I recall correctly.

[thick ledge]

No one should be throwing insults

[hardy ingot]

I can imagine the situation is way more difficult than I imagine but there are no right steps outside letting it pass. Pretending to change your mind when you don't believe it is not going to fix the damage, at most just slow it down

[wet storm]

It really didn't

[thick ledge]

Do not the insult

[frozen nimbus]

^

[jolly sky]

"Not seeing an original thought" isn't an attack or an insult. It's an observation

[fluid dome]

Some of y'all should stop yapping on the Internet and get some much needed oxygen into those brains of yours. The average human uses about 10% of it. But this circlejerk mudslinging indicates that some of you are using even less. Its truly sad to see.

Please touch grass and grab some fresh air. It's a nice day out. Maybe get a girlfriend too. It does wonders for your perspective

[frozen sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/throwing-daniel-stahl-sweden-nbc-olympics-discus-throw-gif-22949868

[flint raft]

I’m a big dummy with a dummy brain who’s a dummy /J

[sterile nexus]

well in the proposed case, because the law states thats you avoid committing consumer aggressions. but the exact same questions could be applied to other features architected at the outset of the game. As an allegory: Indie devs make a simple beautiful game that takes them years to make, and could be echeived by a AAA studio much faster. but the AAA's dont, they tack on a hundred and one systems and some they probably dont need to sell the game because they think it will be needed or they just want to have that in the game. this would be a new thing that has to be in a game as a concept. do you need an accessibility Menu? no but many of them exist in games now so that the world can be inclusive and be a better place. do you need an end of life plan for a game? no not currently but it might make the world a better place

[wet storm]

You missed the "coming from you" part

[jolly sky]

Still an observation

[wet storm]

I am observing you are being rude

[frozen nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/punch-self-own-boxing-gif-14990215

[jolly sky]

If you think that is the case then fair enough

[earnest mirage]

what required timeline?
he never gave out a specific date. Back in 2023 he said that he try to finish it within the next year.

[wet storm]

HOWTO: Factory reset
Man took a screenshot

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-band-geeks-lets-be-smart-bring-it-off-dont-fight-gif-18786852

[jaunty vine]

Well the semantics of it a human actually uses 100% of their brain, sometimes but not always all at once.

You still make a fair point, I just wanted to interject with what I would call humor.

[flint raft]

Me and my accident prone self lol

[indigo wadi]

frustrations about Heartbound delays are minor in comparison to the other nonsense negative reviews. LBr here.

[teal zodiac]

ye, thats the thing, i wouldnt know the right path to take and its so easy for you to make things even worse with a bad choice of words in a critical situation

[polar sandal]

Okay? Except I cite my sources a lot of the time. If you haven't noticed it, you haven't been looking. The "weren't able to meet the required deadlines" stuff is quoted directly from the changes to Thor's official described deadline for Heartbound's release. It was delayed by a year at one point, later changed to "early access" instead of "full release". You can look it up yourself if you want.

[lunar moth]

Because that's all they have left.

Nothing about SKG made any sense and all of their nonsense was explained to them as nonsense. So then he started spamming the video clipping certain points of it just because. Then the goal shifted at some point to Heartbound (I haven't kept up to that portion yet as I was off having delicious food), and now the the Lime is insulting people seemingly.

Since nothing sticks... resort to insults I guess?

[flint raft]

Honestly this can be applied to any situation

[livid path]

I don’t disagree with what you just said, but I am curious how that relates back to my question of why those devs should have to spend hundreds/thousands of work hours doing that. Sorry I’m super tired so I may just be stupid lol

[pulsar basin]

yall seem to be having quite a lot of fun here eh...

[sterile nexus]

its not extra if it is planned for from the start. and laws dont typically search back retroactively. existing things would be grandfathered in in any actual law that gets drafted as a result of this initiative

[lime vine]

Im just watching at this point. Maybe it is time to go outside again. Because im going insane again.

[flint raft]

Words have weight and impact more than we realize

[indigo wadi]

Been following Thor since last years and it's always been in EA as far as I'm aware.

[teal zodiac]

yup, that's what i said at first, not only about this present problem but generally, its so much complicated when you are so public

[jolly sky]

You've cited sources in points where its beneficial for your argument, and from what I've seen, hand-waved everything else that isn't

[thick ledge]

It's been in EA for a few years atleast slowly expandin

I remember watching him work on the tower on stream

And now animus is almost done

Which is by far the biggest part of the game

[indigo wadi]

isn't it like 90% done (the game)

[polar sandal]

this is true, however, that doesn't immediately invalidate people's frustrations with it being delayed for so long.

[thick ledge]

Yeah

[sterile nexus]

existing situations likely would not have to. new ones might be required to. thats tough for me personally to speculate on. but again if there ever is law on this it wouldnt be an extra thing, it would be something that gets planned for in the inception of a game and development would account for the eventual switch to ensure it isnt as burdensome as it could be, ideally

[thick ledge]

Of course it doesn't, but heartbound was never a huge game, people are bombing it trying to hurt thor and his reputation

[livid path]

That’s fair. I find your argument to be reasonable and make sense 👍

[flint raft]

Yeah i agree, they should talk about the issue privately amongst themselves.
Ross and Thor have the same idea but are latching onto different issues.

I respect both of them and hope they can come to an understanding

[indigo wadi]

yawn

[tight bramble]

Didn't Thor say that him focusing on streaming for as long as he did was to gain enough attention and revenue stream to pay for everything? "Now that the machine is built" IIRC.

[polar sandal]

Yeah that's something I don't like and I don't think is okay

[thick ledge]

The game could be done, and people would still be bombing it

[indigo wadi]

4.3 hours btw

[frozen sonnet]

Correct

[flat moat]

Yikes

[flint raft]

That’s how it is with any game honestly

[livid path]

Champions of breakfast:

[indigo wadi]

oor these

[lunar moth]

And implementing this would make it impossible to update current games that are online games.
Because every time they are updated, any laws that would impact the development of a game would impact the current state of it. Best example of this is something like MMO expansions or how areas of a game has to be changed to comport to laws as they currently are or they get banned/shut down. See changes to things like that microtransactions are required to have the actual cost of it listed next to it if it uses in-game premium currencies.

[blissful imp]

Another one.

Also videos like this(specifically the thumbnail because i didn't click the video) is why i want Thor to make a statement(A video statement not a tweet).

[earnest mirage]

please do it. I can't find thor talk about a fixed date for the release of heartbound

[thick ledge]

@polar sandal you're relatively reasonable, but there are 500 people who arnt for every person like you, seemingly

[indigo wadi]

Such effing clickbait

[livid path]

Channel name checks out

[frozen nimbus]

Yeah, people arnt leaving actual reviews

Its just this

[jolly sky]

He also has a LOT more responsibilities now, and each and every one of them eat into more and more time.

The machine is still running, and the time taking up the maintenance of doing that means something will get less time dedicated to it

[teal zodiac]

imagine making a drama video with the most agressive title and end up choosing the most innocent looking image of Thor...

[frozen sonnet]

My question is where were all these people the last 10 months, why didn’t they make videos for SKG then?

[lime vine]

I wanna get the game when its done. I've been even deciding if I should join a gamejam from him for this year too. Im just can't decide if I actually like Thor or not. It might be just me overthinking. But i think i still like him.

[blissful imp]

yes, but its gonna work. people will believe it

[thick ledge]

At one point before the game started dev, there was a ballpark guess

[teal zodiac]

drama channels really need to step up their game

[thick ledge]

I don't remember exactly wheb

[indigo wadi]

Sadly ya

[sterile nexus]

that is so much more appreciated thank you may know 🙂 I try keep level minded with the things I bring to the table. Im not blissfully unaware of how the law could go poorly either if the intiative comes to be and lawmakers are underinformed about the industry. just hopeful we can steps in the best directions for everyone

[polar sandal]

there was a fixed date for the full release, I believe in 2017, then was delayed a year, then changed to early access. Since the last change, thor has delivered on the early access deadline, however, the changes and unknown full release date, and long development time has gotten people concerned.

[jolly sky]

What an amazing point

[flint raft]

Look, we all want games to be accessible after a game is done getting updates.
We all agree on that.

Review bombing and sending hate to staff members does not help anything at all

[thick ledge]

Game jams are a fun exercise and a good way to expand your own skillset

[frozen nimbus]

Terrible

[polar sandal]

also, this review is apparently inaccurate

[indigo wadi]

they don't care

[polar sandal]

the always-online requirement does not apply to singleplayer

[frozen nimbus]

[jolly prism]

About the release of Heartbound and the fact we now have monthly updates (after a lot of pushback first) - all the way back in 2019 Thor said the the game will be getting weekly updates. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/piratesoftware/heartbound/posts/2680021

[polar sandal]

this review is from Rivals of Aether II btw

[pliant grotto]

has anyone noticed how you don't see any pro SKG people denouncing all the unhinged people in their community for attacking people like thor?

[flint raft]

Well if you look at things from both perspectives you can see how they’re both being a bit ridiculous about it.
I respect them both but it’s honestly damaging both of their credibility

[indigo wadi]

and that was before he blew up

[jaunty vine]

Okay so, question then: why in the heck under making games functional at sunset would I ever dare to make a live service or primarily multiplayer game, if that all has to be planned out anyway? Someone may've posed that question already so if so, point me to the answer I do kindly ask. Because that's a ton of resources to dedicate to making a game function without a central server and game master. It's not a small ask to make an AI run the game in place of a game master.

[livid path]

No problem. It appears Thor’s main issue with it (he has several, this is just the main one), based on what I’ve heard over several streams is the potential for harm and abuse to the industry from loopholes or poor wording combined with ignorant law makers

[tight bramble]

Yeah its almost like if you're a one man show (yes I know he has employees, but none of them are the face of every aspect of rhe company like he is) you run the show yourself. Crazy concept, man.

[polar sandal]

I'm pro-SKG and I'm absolutely pissed at the idiots who are harrassing and sending death threats to Thor

[jolly prism]

It was so long before he blew up the game could have been finished twice, but yes.

[thick ledge]

Thor isn't really involved in rivals, he gets minimum wage from offbrand to consult on good buisness practices for thier publishing

[frozen nimbus]

Bro they are going after games that's just RELATED to thor now?

[sterile nexus]

i agree, which would dictate that legislation passed as a result of the initiative would likely have a consideration for a works original release date as a metric for whether or not it is governed by this, though that too could be manipulated or abused by corporations

[indigo wadi]

So Thor is being ridic? How?

[indigo wadi]

that's not for you to decide though. That's for Thor to decide, period

[jolly sky]

What a novel and totally new concept I know

[livid path]

Speaking of the lawmakers though, yall see that matpat has become a sort of representative of for the game’s industry for congress?

[frozen nimbus]

Hmmm

[polar sandal]

yes

[livid path]

Feels relevant enough to mention

[flint raft]

Latching onto small things instead of looking at the bigger picture, same with Ross

[thick ledge]

Their behavior discredits the entire movement, I support the sentiment but I'll never support it after this

[jolly prism]

Well, the people paying for it do have some say too - as we saw recently.

[sterile nexus]

thats a terrible video, but at least the creators name is accurate to his content

[lime vine]

No idea. I feel like it was only popular when it came out and now. I like completely forgot about it in just a few days about it last year. Even tho im in Europe it just didn't interest me. I just wanna play my games...

[indigo wadi]

Thor looked at the bigger picture though. 2 videos about it.

[polar sandal]

this is exactly why I'm pissed at those people

[thick ledge]

And alot of people agree with.me

[polar sandal]

it makes the whole movement look bad

[grim pine]

What even is this argument

[pliant grotto]

Makes it impossible to have an actual discussion about it really.

[polar sandal]

just like Linux folks being absolute dumbasses and insult people for no reason who are trying to enter Linux, even though Linux is actually a good platform

[frozen nimbus]

Sooooo its fine to just not call out hate?

[thick ledge]

There should definitely be more people in skg denouncing it, ESPECIALLY ross

[indigo wadi]

Certainly but if Thor decides to change his mind and add more to the game, which he recently did last month, that results in an unexpected delay, well, that's on him to do.

At the end of the day, the game is a passion project for him.

[jolly sky]

There's going to be a lot of people who see the rabid behaviour of the supporters and be instantly turned off by it

[polar sandal]

completely pisses me off because it ruins the look of the Linux community

[thick ledge]

But he isn't. Instead he stoked it

Intentionally

For engagement

[flint raft]

Not really, he’s latched onto single player live service games.
Also mmos have fun servers already so sunsetting an mmo won’t really keep people from playing it.

For example toontown servers shut down but fans brought servers back

[earnest mirage]

okay, so basically a nothingburger.

[livid path]

People have said a bunch of unbelievably FOUL stuff, the harassment has legitimately been insane

[lunar moth]

At which point you end up with a two class system at best, but realistically you'd end up with three or four.
Existing finished games.
Existing finished games that receive more content.
Existing finished games where the developer think they are done, but add more content.
Future games.

Depending on how you'd want to classify it, you'd end up with a law that has to work for "all" games but work differently for 2, 3, or 4 different categories of time sensitive finished, ongoing, not ongoing but updated, and future games.

The idea that this is simple is bonkers, and the complexity of trying to make all of this make sense with a phrase like "that's the lawmakers' job" is at best a copout.

[indigo wadi]

Has he? Pretty sure he addressed it that he understood it as ALL games.

[thick ledge]

I've seen death threats here

[grim pine]

You can't fault someone for not actively opposing someone else's crimes, like what? So long as you don't support that hate, there's no problem.

Holding people to that standard is crazy.

[thick ledge]

People have posted pics of his house

It's unhinged

[jaunty vine]

Also, while Thor is contractually obligated to give us a product because we paid him for one, his game is his game. If he did up and stop development of Heartbound but gave everyone a refund, that'd be his decision. The fact he hasn't is because he's still working on it and absolutely intends to finish it and give everyone something at some point.

[dire burrow]

#news message

[flint raft]

Again I think they should talk privately to settle it instead of having this be all over the internet, it doesn’t help Thor or Ross

[polar sandal]

I would say that Ross should've addressed the harassment in his (probably final) response video to the whole fiasco

[blissful imp]

Noooo... he did a tweet... People on the internet can't read these days.

[sterile nexus]

Im pro SKG and ill denounce them. haters suck. internet has enough hate on it and this got autmoderated so i redacted some of what i said after this >.>.

[livid path]

Alright everybody thor posted, let’s all go read it

[thick ledge]

And I wish more people in the movement verbalized this

ESPECIALLYRoss, the figurehead,

[dire burrow]

I read it

[indigo wadi]

I can't believe Thor doesn't know how to space properly

[teal zodiac]

read it?? but sir...thats illegal in the internet

[jolly prism]

Smh, if he was a real game developer, this would not have happened.

[fluid dome]

Cancelled

[indigo wadi]

[thick ledge]

I genuinely believe he ment to weaponize the hate, I genuinely do not believe he isn't aware of this toxic part of his community

[swift lily]

#news message

ahh shit, here we go again

[livid path]

recap of Thor’s official opinion

[indigo wadi]

ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS FOLLOW THE DAMN TRAIN CJ

[frozen nimbus]

All his arguments are invalid and now hes terrible smh /s

[wet storm]

Well that's terrible.

[fluid dome]

Also I am playing through Lies of P NG+ without summons and I'm pretty hyped at how good I'm playing

[minor nymph]

What. It literally runs on a smart fridge.

[thick ledge]

Otherwise he would have publicly told people off 10 months ago

[hardy ingot]

It is extra even if you plan it from the start, if you had an idea for a game for 2 M $, and now you need to make EOL plan happen as well, you either drop features intended for the game or increase the budget, and that choice just sucks for everyone

[forest epoch]

literally unreadable smh my head

[frozen nimbus]

[livid path]

@polar sandal this is not exaggeration, a community member legitimately did this

[minor nymph]

!fridge

[dapper raven]

The Legends were true! https://youtu.be/ZhRkxUDadUA

[minor nymph]

IT LITERALLY RUNS ON A SMART FRIDGE

[frozen nimbus]

Smart fridge

[green plank]

thats so cool lol, i remember seeing that

[indigo wadi]

Does this make Heartbound edible or bitesized?

[thick ledge]

That review is from rivals

Also smart fridge heartbound is so based

[green plank]

wait, but can it run on a normal fridge though 🤔

[dire burrow]

That review is from rivals, not heartbound

[frozen nimbus]

Can the fridge run is a better question

Because mine sure is

[frozen sonnet]

We will never know because you killed games Kendo

[tight bramble]

And there it is folks. Reading that tweet (I won't call it x) makes me feel like I'm being scolded by a parent for failing a test lol

[green plank]

it has to run on an unplugged fridge

[grim pine]

Like heck I've seen no actual hate from SKG (granted I haven't been in a place to see it), am I supposed to denounce it? Yes think it's bad, sure. But what dies that achieve? You're using it as a goddamn shield though. Sorry for their harassment. Now what?

[jolly sky]

I believe they were talking about Rivals of Aether 2, and the review is still incorrect lmao

[green plank]

😼 heh you know it

[tight bramble]

If it has a processor, it can run doom

[gaunt remnant]

Wait what happened? I'm out of the loop

[frozen sonnet]

Can Doom run Doom?

[frozen nimbus]

Stuff

[gaunt remnant]

I thought things were calming down

[tight bramble]

Or not, doom can run in github actions as well

[frozen nimbus]

Not really I think

[thick ledge]

Heartbound runs On a fridge

That's what u missed

[velvet sedge]

calm down? never

[jolly sky]

Bacteria can run Doom.

Therefore bacterias are processors

[jaunty vine]

#news message

I'ma be real? When Charlie posted his video reacting to Ross responding to Thor, I actually dug back in to do "muh own research."

And with as little bias for Thor as I could muster, I still ultimately sided with Thor and don't think the initiative is a good idea. And I ran it by my law student of a fiance and they also don't think it's a good idea. It's too vague and too broad man!

[indigo wadi]

literally first reply, jfc

[patent flame]

why is my youtube feed being weaponized so heavily around this intiative this week?!

[gaunt remnant]

It's Twitter, don't think too much about it

[thick ledge]

Industry plant for who tho

[flint raft]

What did you expect?

[indigo wadi]

i don't, just happened to notice

[livid path]

Posted before they physically could have read it all btw

[waxen comet]

are we having another discourse again

[thick ledge]

I genuinely wanna know who they think is paying him

[lime vine]

How to make it obvious that the person didnt even read it.

[thick ledge]

Who specifically

[jaunty vine]

It's the hot topic. And you view one video on it, the algorithm will look for more.

[thick ledge]

I need yo know the full flat earth theory

[gaunt remnant]

I mean being an industry plant sounds cool. You spend all week sitting in a corner as decoration in an office. Sounds like my dream job

[remote locust]

I mean I read it all

[wary drift]

For them guys from the corporation in the conglomerate.

[livid path]

Same

[wary drift]

https://tenor.com/view/oakdice-runescape-gif-18004007

[wet storm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UDsdVijfP4

[lime vine]

Well Thor dropped the nuke on twitter so yes. Not like discourse has been happening in this channel 24/7 now

[livid path]

However, the commenter did not

[thick ledge]

He's a plant for BIG VIDEOGAME

[green plank]

im not sure people actually know what being an industry plant means, they just use the term a lot

[remote locust]

I really hate the way this discourse is going

[thick ledge]

Like that's bow how plants work

[remote locust]

Because like

[frozen nimbus]

Ligma plant

[remote locust]

I think fundamentally everyone agrees on things needing to change

[flint raft]

The main guy who was leading the theory on YouTube is actually a flip flopper that latches onto theories to stay relevant, he hasn’t talked about flat earth for years now

[livid path]

Well thankfully on this discussion in particular it’s been pretty civil for a little while now at least

[gaunt remnant]

Everyone agrees things need to change, nobody wants to do anything about it

[indigo wadi]

Phriana Plant

[livid path]

In this chat specifically

[frozen nimbus]

Atleast here

[waxen comet]

its just a colloquial term to refer to someone that is planted by the industry to have the opposing opinion
it does not necessarily mean they are planted by someone

[jolly sky]

A subsection of Flat Earthers genuinely believe that the live streamed long term stay at the Antarctic was made in Unreal Engine 5 lmao

[thick ledge]

Thor is a piranha plant

[frozen nimbus]

We are respectful to anyone on either side if they are also respectful

[remote locust]

Dude, I think a lot of people do. The issue its, like with so many things, is that its hard to do so properly

[tight bramble]

"What do you think a plant is? Maybe people don't understand the definitions of these words"

-Katt Williams

[green plank]

finally someone sees it

[thick ledge]

Who planted him, you don't plant yourself

[gaunt remnant]

"Muh Switch 2 is too expensive"
-> Fastest selling console of all time.

At this point, there ain't much to be done

[frozen nimbus]

"Stanley is everything a plant?"

[thick ledge]

Plant implies that someone put him there to dissent

[indigo wadi]

he spittin that fire....balls

cause of all the ligmas

[frozen nimbus]

"Am I a plant stanely?"

[wet storm]

Play indie

[thick ledge]

Who's paying him

[wet storm]

That's what's left to be done

[flint raft]

I thought the argument was game prices not the console price

[patent flame]

So if people don't make online games anymore, will these same gamers complain still?

[wet storm]

Always indie

[gaunt remnant]

Not what hundreds of thousands of people have decided though it seems

[remote locust]

People will complain about anything

[thick ledge]

Really cool indie came out, check it out, it's called metro gravity it's like a rhythm souls like with gravity rush mechanics

[wet storm]

I am not any of those people

[green plank]

I would never call anyone a plant on anything... but it is ironic... the people claiming it

[jolly sky]

Clearly he's getting secret back-pay by AAA publishers to support his stance, especially Sony

[thick ledge]

It makes me physically ill to play

[wary drift]

Darth Nebag

[gaunt remnant]

If we are to vote with our wallets, we're sending the message that no matter how expensive consoles are, people will still buy it

[teal zodiac]

See!!! He is pure evil!! waaaaaa
OutOfContextThor

[waxen comet]

like i said, colloquial term
they just refer to that bec its an opposing opinion thats in favor of the industry
like how i can call somoene a monster, but that does not mean that person is an actual monster

[pliant grotto]

The impression I get is that people who vehemently want SKG to happen, would be perfectly happy if online games died and we just had single player games only.

[indigo wadi]

LOL

[frozen nimbus]

Evil smh /j

[frozen sonnet]

[lime vine]

thor is a venus flytrap

[wet storm]

Very pretty game

[livid path]

Thor is stinky

[frozen nimbus]

People are genuinely probably gonna take this and spread it around

Lol

[thick ledge]

I play mostly indies personally and it's pretty cool

[remote locust]

I don't think that's correct, just an overgeneralization.

People want SOMETHING to happen. And SKG is something

[gaunt remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/ultrakill-minos-prime-death-court-judge-gif-11277115361823512221

[jolly sky]

Oh yea I saw this on Iron Pineapples channel

[livid path]

<— play this game, Oneshot

It’s the best

[tight bramble]

Thor is a pitcher plant

[livid path]

Ever

[wary drift]

It's much worse.
He could send a global signal in an instant and stop the entire movement dead in its tracks, infesting the entire world with doubt.

He's not just a plant. He's a whole Mycorrhizal network!

[charred wolf]

Thor tied me to the mast of a ship

[hardy ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-youre-goddamn-right-gif-14600753

[wet storm]

You can vote with your wallet in multiple fronts

[remote locust]

They're not thinking about how it would need to be implemented, they're thinking "SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE!"

[wet storm]

The wallet isn't limited to one vote

[thick ledge]

Oneshot also based and the devs are friends of the thor

[wet storm]

That's the beauty of it

If enough people keep buying indie indie continues to come out

[livid path]

[lime vine]

I need to finish it dammit.. Its just rotting in my steam library for no reason.

[wet storm]

Honestly gamin is like music, there's tastes for everyone

[wet storm]

Oneshot is FANTASTIC

[waxen comet]

imo i think SKG is a trend in the right direction but reading the FAQ does not give confidence that it provides a net positive result

[thick ledge]

I play mostly indie, Thor constantly promotes indie on stream too

[livid path]

Yes you must finish it (and then look into the word solstice, but only after you finish it)

[patent flame]

Maybe it's to the point that many gamers don't understand how games are made or maintained?

[waxen comet]

then again im not a lawyer

just a dude who likes games

[thick ledge]

He will even bring up indie steam pages and give them advise like open a discord and put it on ur page

Free promo

[teal zodiac]

i never heard the term "dogpiling" before, this is new to me

[dusty mist]

Looked at the twitter post.
While I am mostly for the side of the "Stop Killing Games" initiative, I can understand Thor's points.

I think the best solution to this would be for Moba/MMOs to allow players to host their own servers.

Still aligns with SKG's goals AND allows for more flexability from Moba/MMO devs.

These are my opinions tho

Feel free to comment on them, critique them, or add on to them.

[green plank]

is expecting every game to be 10/10 equivalent to expecting every piece of art a twitter artist makes to be 10/10

[jaunty vine]

Gaaaaawd I don't wanna be broke, I wanna plaaaaay iiiiiit.

[thick ledge]

Can be a problem if people do bad things on those servers

[tight bramble]

The active game of dog pile is fun lol

[wet storm]

Dogpile, illustrated

[thick ledge]

The company would be liable

[green plank]

ig my main point is, whether people like it or not, creation in general in an RNG type thing that probablistically gets better the more you make

[patent flame]

Forcing game developers to be liable ehhh...

[grim pine]

me when i dont have twitter so i cannot read what thor said 😭

[spiral parcel]

Couldnt take Thor serious in his SKG video 10 months ago, it was at least entertained a bit. But cant his shit serious.

[teal zodiac]

Also "doxing", Im kinda new to the whole internet slang thing

[thick ledge]

He said chat is stinky

[jolly sky]

Sadly Moba's and MMO's allowing people to those their own servers means that they run into Copyright and IP law problems, which would end up giving ownership of the game to the individual

[smoky grail]

Based on how they've said, verbatim, "Any views are good views". This is exactly the mind set many of them have unfortunately.

[tight bramble]

Yeah well call him a lint licker

[grim pine]

did he say he's willing to discuss or is he doubling down on ross being disingenuous and not worth a convo

(i cant read it cos twitter is cringe)

[blissful imp]

Ratio is good rn

[gaunt remnant]

The issue for the SGK movement is that it's a complicated topic, and people wanted an easy solution to it. We always want easy solutions to complicated topics because it's very human to have trouble seeing the big picture.

If there were to be a real, proper SKG movement that could actually work, it would need a very deep, complicated solution with lots of variables. Not made by one person, but a whole team of lawyers

[lime vine]

how dare he....

[jovial sandal]

Ok, so ask yourself, why devs may opt to host servers themselves, rather than have player hosted servers. They swapped over to this style years ago for reasons that make sense to them

[stoic zealot]

Round two of the situation

let's start off with analyzing the reply section of Thor's recent tweet

You have multiple people in a matter of seconds after the tweet is posted saying things that someone wouldn't typically say if they read through the entirety of the tweet,

repeating the same phrases over and over like a bunch of inhuman creatures in unison that say that they are thinking freely yet they all say the same damn thing! . . . Like the unison of a hive mine

Pulling up I already disproven accusations from the past that people have already disproven thousands of times over

And pulling out arguments that were already disproven within the same freaking tweet!!!

[thick ledge]

He just clarified what he disagrees with afaik

[waxen comet]

you also run into the issue of possible proprietary stuff with passing down servers for the game

[hardy ingot]

I mean MOBA for starters would be excluded from the entire initiative anyway since iirc all of them are F2P

[grim pine]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[frozen nimbus]

Leaking peoples personal info like addresses

[jolly prism]

How would they be liable for servers they do not own or operate? WOW devs are not responsible for servers that run private servers.

[dusty mist]

Wait a minute, wouldn't the company be able to be protected under the safe harbor act?
That way, they can claim to not be liable for people who do wrong-doing on those servers.

[lunar moth]

Did you watch the first video Thor mentioned in the post?
It explains why doing that for online games such as MOBAs and MMOs wouldn't be a good idea.

[jolly sky]

Entertainment is not the goal, a level of understanding is.

[grand sequoia]

for a sec i thought it was jerma on your pfp

[thick ledge]

People buy stuff in mobas and would lose them when they shut down

[waxen comet]

how is MOBA and F2P relevant to exception to the movement

[austere gust]

I just want to say

https://tenor.com/view/gorgeous-finger-bus-verygorgeous-gif-12853317

[thick ledge]

The

[austere gust]

Thank you

[frozen nimbus]

What

😭

[hardy ingot]

In the description it says somewhere that the new law wouldn't apply to free to play games

[jaunty vine]

While I too think Twitter is crabbing awful, I still took the time to read it on Twitter. I'd recommend you do too.

Though to summarize; nothing about Ross being disingenuous, he doesn't really even mention Ross. He went over his talking points again. So yes, you're damn right he's doubling down.

[patent flame]

omg...

[thick ledge]

Everyone give it up for The

[dusty mist]

I remember watching it a long while ago. Though my memory might be rusty.

[wary drift]

Man, it sure is something reading people live self report that they cannot read a single tweet worth of text.
Like one guy took all of 2 replies to say that Thor is acting as if he's doubling down.
I don't know, is he? Is he really?

[dusty mist]

That being said, that's why I still commented on this issue.

[jaunty vine]

Except if they have microtransactions. Which... All F2P games have to some extent.

[solemn tiger]

It also states it's for future games, not currently released games. So it's not relevant.

[thick ledge]

It's not really doubling down to clarify what your problems with it were?

[spiral parcel]

I always feel an air of authority in Thors stream, it feels like he barely listens to his community and always thinks he knows the best. Doesnt somebody else feel like that?

[waxen comet]

soooooooooooooo that just makes a lot of SKG moot then

[teal zodiac]

ye, i had to look on google, pretty insane. Seems like it comes from the plural of Documents - Docs - Dox

[patent flame]

Why would you want to restrict game developers and have them be liable by a governmental entity?

[frozen nimbus]

"Hes doubling down raaah!11!" No really? Thats crazy

[thick ledge]

Can confirm this is just how he talks

[frozen nimbus]

[charred wolf]

So Thor's stance is "I do believe something about the AAA scene needs to change and I do not believe the way Ross is going about it is how it should be done"?

[hardy ingot]

Tbf there might be a clause somewhere in there that ropes it in anyway through MTs or some shit

[tight bramble]

You want a cool word to look up?

[green plank]

"hey me and this group of 100,000 people are telling you to change your opinion, and your not doing it 😂"

[jolly sky]

No because many of us have had polite disagreements with him, and there's no problems, including me, both in text and in a voice channel

Emphasis on the word polite

[thick ledge]

Ye

[frozen nimbus]

Huh didnt know that actually lol

[teal zodiac]

yes...maybe....YES

[urban venture]

polite is your middle name. Action Polite Dan

[frozen nimbus]

As for dog piles, it just basically means tons of people going to harass/assault someone together

[grim pine]

bro this is my issue

[charred wolf]

Fair enough

[thick ledge]

Thor constantly tells chat not to just take what he says as fact

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/maybe-iffy-so-dr-cox-gif-24054477

[tight bramble]

Two actually: petrichor and sonder

[indigo wadi]

Not even remotely. He's open to talking

[grim pine]

"
I then explain that very few people in the game development space can actually discuss this from the other side due to fear of losing their jobs. A studio is much safer in silent dissent then they are discussing the drawbacks of your ideals. The recent attacks on our games is obvious evidence of this.
"
he's literally the man in the position to discuss it

[warped venture]

how are we doing here folks are we having civil discussions or getting spicy again

[grim pine]

and he refused

what is this

[thick ledge]

It's like one of his main things

[charred wolf]

Unrelated, I love this word. No bias.

[grim pine]

i cant

[warped venture]

ahhhh

[frozen nimbus]

Pretty civil actually

I think

[hardy ingot]

so far seems mostly chill

[warped venture]

goodgood

[jaunty vine]

While I concur, to quote Thor's tweet kinda out of context but it's towards the end:

"For those that will scream HE'S DOUBLING DOWN. Yes I damn well am. I care give a (expletive) about this initiative and what it means for games, developers, and players in the future."

[spiral parcel]

Doesnt this feel exhausting, tip toeing around him so you dont hurt his feelings? I just like going straight to the facts, without being unpolite or else.

[frozen nimbus]

Is this some inside joke

[green plank]

guys im gonna get a bunch of buddies together and force people with numbers to say there favorite flavor of ice cream is chocolate (there opinion about there opinion isnt relevant right?)

[wary drift]

As someone who doesn't know these, the first sounds like a Dieselpunk term, and the other like Age of Sail

[indigo wadi]

I got jalapenos, hows that for spicy?

[urban venture]

wdym? he is talking about it that was the whole point of those two videos he posted 10 months ago

[warped venture]

yum

[smoky grail]

Thor constantly tells everyone to "Trust, but verify". Always check for yourself

[thick ledge]

He is discussing it, but most developers can't or else thier game would get the backlash his is getting and they'd lose thier job

[austere gust]

@frozen nimbus

[charred wolf]

Nah, probably more or less just a figure of speech

[dusty mist]

Oh?
I wonder how it'd give copyright and IP problems?
Minecraft Java Edition has a system where people can host their own servers.
I think those problems can potentially be circumvented if all the assets for the game are stored in the game itself, and the server determines how those assets are treated.

[jolly sky]

Being bombarded by death theats, doxxing, and violence by a large section of a community doesn't exactly make anyone feel wanting to have a conversation

[grim pine]

iwl i havent looked at twitter since it became X. back in the day long posts are segmented cos character cap.

turns out this one isn't, that's mb. I guess elon did something right? (was it elon?)

[teal zodiac]

I know petrichor due to a very emotional episode of Doctor Who

[fluid dome]

The amount of time that everybody would save by reading is insane to me

[frozen nimbus]

?

[jaunty vine]

Yeah, he is. And do you see all the hate he's getting as a result?

[grim pine]

that's not a discussion

[sterile nexus]

when I say AI i explicitly state im not talking about an LLM. Im talking about something similar to an oblivion or skyrim NPC that picks from a list of parameters, gauges data to react and adjusts parameters accordingly. a controller entity in games is nothing new and while this would be a touch more complex it wouldnt be anything groundbreaking.

regarding the want to make and MMO: mountian of money from subscribers if successful. thats the motivation. always has been and always will be for large scale recurring revenue games. they want you to pay them every month.

[thick ledge]

Bluesky better anyway

[austere gust]

You're invited

[timber vortex]

petrichor: a distinctive, earthy, usually pleasant odor that is associated with rainfall especially when following a warm, dry period

[jolly sky]

I also haven't tiptoed. If your goal is hurt someones feelings in a discussion, then you're discussing wrong.

[indigo wadi]

he doesn't have the spoons to continue talking about points he made 10 months ago because ppl are arguing in bad fith

[green plank]

think of it this way, if we where all at a basketball court and i walked up to you with a group of 20 people and all 20 of us said we dont like your shirt color go change it now... how would you guys feel about that?

[charred wolf]

I've been afraid of making a blue sky account tbch. I try to lay low on social media considering how heated it can get

[frozen nimbus]

Oh yay

[grim pine]

he should've discussed with ross when ross said he misunderstood stuff 10 months ago

[thick ledge]

Yeah he's had that argument 50000 times, I think he's argued out

[charred wolf]

Never owned an x account either

[lunar moth]

If online games such as MMOs or Mobas are forced to build the games to allow for private servers, the actual user information at best is compromised, but there's multitudes of other issues ranging from hacking issues, to copyright issues, to hostile takeover issues, and a bunch more.

It ain't feasible in any way shape or form to do this the way that SKG is going about things.
Especially not in light of Scott's latest video where he put the cards on the table where the issues that Thor raised that this initiative as it's goals are described would lead to games being killed off is in part if not full the goal of the iniative. Because he doesn't think games should be allowed to be designed to be online games in the ways MMOs, Mobas, or even shooters and a bunch of other stuff is designed.

And we know this because of what he said in conjunction with the games he used as examples that the imitative view as problematic (or to use their wording, "designed to be killed").

[grim pine]

saying "oh its been 10 months" doesn'te xcuse that 😭

[thick ledge]

Bluesky is chill and you can actually filter your feed

[dusty mist]

^ THIS ^ I agree with.
Making sure to cover up any loopholes is why companies use legalese (as much as I hate legalese).

[thick ledge]

My feed is all cats

[indigo wadi]

there's very specific reasons why thor chose not to. His community being one of em.

[charred wolf]

It's pretty unfair to say it's all thor's fault when everyone else had like 10 months to do something about skg?

[jovial sandal]

my feed is 90% red pandas, its great

[jolly sky]

It's also been 10 months and Ross hasn't done anything to promote his movement. There's no excuse for that and blaming on Thor either

[urban venture]

neither is him giving this information out and then being faced with threats, insults and other things. that's not a conversation, that's explaining things to a room full of yelling children who have already decided you're a villain and they don't like you.

it's not fair to say he had no conversations about it when Scott Ross just wants to throw him under the bus for even explaining why he thinks it needs to be re-worked, discussed and verified with developers before it even goes to the petition phase

[green plank]

i dont have a twitter

[grim pine]

this is ridiculous

[urban venture]

Scott Ross is a disorganized man who is blaming his own mismanagement on someone else

[grim pine]

i cant 🤦

I'm done

[flint raft]

That’s good

[indigo wadi]

Yes, it's ridic that Ross hasn't done much with his initiative

[thick ledge]

Yeah this is a huge problem, Ross publicly said thar he doesn't think games like mmos and mobas should be allowed

[urban venture]

engage with this in good faith? we know

[charred wolf]

That seems like a rather accurate statement

[wintry pond]

why should you need to talk to someone in order to understand what they mean with a petition they are trying to pass? Everything should be clear from the petition itself. If you need someone to clarify it, then its flawed and need to be rewritten

[lunar moth]

Bluesky is awesome and being able to set up your own moderated filters makes it so nice; I like politics and philosophy, so I like having those on my feed, but I also just sometimes want to enjoy art and artists' work - and being able to do that is awesome!

[indigo wadi]

So because you can't handle criticism of ross, you're done? okay

[charred wolf]

I do genuinely think ross wants a good thing

[balmy bone]

its ridiculous that people are attacking thor and his community instead of just ignoring his "bad take"

[thick ledge]

Well, have a nice day anyway

[urban venture]

just wondering why his rant on pirate takes up the majority of his latest video lol

[flint raft]

I love Bluesky

[green plank]

wanting a good thing, and doing a good thing are different though

[frozen nimbus]

Is bluesky like the better x

[balmy bone]

exactly

[thick ledge]

Bluezky is so based

[unkempt mason]

Scott Ross had ten months. TEN. To reach out, discuss, and interact. He didn't. He took the low road and threw Thor under the bus when Scott could've been doing so much more to build trust and clarity.

[indigo wadi]

because he wants the blame to land on Thor

[hardy ingot]

MMO is already one of the riskiest things you can try, you have lesser chance in hell to profit than trying to win a lottery, it's also one of the most expensive things you could attempt, and to make it completely SP-viable is an issue of raising the costs by about 30-40, sometimes even 100% depending on the technology you need in your backend for the specific thing you're making

Why would anyone attempt an MMO if this change turns that roughly 10% chance to profit to 1% chance? And that's with the fact that MMOs generally pay for themselves YEARS later unlike most games and only if they actually succeed. There's a reason so many MMOs have been bought off and torn apart by companies that solely focus on buying off failed MMOs.

[wintry pond]

yes, the idea is good, but the wording is the problem and in law wording is extremely important

[urban venture]

like did it really shoot him in the foot that bad when he did little to no outreach to youtubers, something Ross admitted himself, that he had to dig back 10 months to find the culprit

[sterile nexus]

100% but citizens dont write the law. citizens write requests (like initiatives) that ask for something to be done about it. then lawmakers write the law. its not simple but this is step 1, and step 1 is simple, request change. then the complex stuff happens if change is decided as the write move

[urban venture]

like wow

[flint raft]

Way better, you can get personalized feeds for your interests so you don’t have to see things you don’t like

[dry osprey]

Why should he? HE wants the drama sadly.

[green plank]

i think ross is a nice guy probably irl, and so is thor (this should be obvious they are just literally normal guys)

[jagged birch]

It's not ridiculous, they wanted to find who to blame, and they found it

[thick ledge]

Don't tell anyone but I play indie mmos, these would be utterly destroyed by this

Tiny player bases, tiny teams

[balmy bone]

sorry, its ridiculous for emotionally stable adults.

[thick ledge]

Very cozy very chill

[hardy ingot]

on the internet?

[jagged birch]

On that, I agree

[tight bramble]

Going to bluesky gives the opportunity to block jd Vance. If nothing else convinces you, I dont know what will.

[balmy bone]

we exist

[brazen drift]

Im on the fence on this one, because plenty of games still run today on private servers. Resident Evil Outbreak is one that died in in the 2000's and someone reverse engineered the servers to work so you can play it online. Someone WAS trying to do that with the matrix online but hasn't been able to

[flint raft]

I’d say the people to blame are the people who put these things in place, that’s my opinion tho

[sterile nexus]

appreciate you fam 😄 ||i wont rell anyone you did >.>||

[warped venture]

Let's not get into other politics here, due to our rules.

[thick ledge]

I'm not saying they shouldn't, it's just a bad idea to force it

[jolly sky]

Imagine if Ross spent some time to reach out to various people in the game industry, including Thor to get their opinions and ideas of how it should be worded before launching it. All of this could have been avoided

[hardy ingot]

I mean even SWTOR, that shit barely runs as it stands, and that's made by BioWare

[thick ledge]

It's always nice when companies allow it

[balmy bone]

absolutely. but forcing devs to do so may have unintended consequences

[patent flame]

I found Ross to be disingenuous

[unkempt mason]

If Ross wanted to actually be productive and build trust, he wouldn't be doing this. 😭

[flint raft]

I used to love that game

[urban venture]

you know what is wild?
most thor drama is pretty god damn tiring, because it's played up drama that starts from nothing and somehow implicates him as a big evil man when most of what he is doing is reacting to the shit flung at him.

the worst he's done? oh no people died in a hardcore dungeon in wow, maybe or maybe not because of him. regardless of outcome it's such a pitiful thing to drag someone in the mud for, and yet here we are with that wave of drama carrying over to now with people trying to find anything to lay at Thor's feet.

I really hate it.

[spiral parcel]

The thing with him is: Every single thing he says, he believes is true. And he pronounces it like a fact. He never doubts himself, he never questions himself, and he never admits when he’s wrong. This are bad signs about somebodys personality with such influence.

What is insulting about this? This are valid statements.

[brazen drift]

Yeah, thats why instead of Forcing them it should just be Legal for people to make private servers after the games gone.

[hardy ingot]

<--- So did I

[balmy bone]

Me too. Lets not eleaborate and leave it there. Just like their community does

[tight bramble]

My bad, fam

[thick ledge]

Yes, Ross intentionally caused this drama and said as such in the video

[patent flame]

Good point

[jolly sky]

These are things that you are projecting onto him, and is not actually how he behaves.

[spiral parcel]

At least he does this on stream, i do not know him personally.

[stoic zealot]

https://fixupx.com/RiverMakes/status/1937144722554036349?t=-jUEnU0fvZJX--KuOI1_wg&s=19

You all seem a bit stressed have some ferrets

Ferret Zone (@RiverMakes)

**💬 6 🔁 13 ❤️ 177 👁️ 3.3K **

FixupX · Jun 23, 2025, 1:44 PM

[jagged birch]

This is exactly my take on this. It was a poorly formulated initiative to begin with. So much flaws and vagueness

[indigo wadi]

Because he talks from an area of experience?

[thick ledge]

So i won't be supporting anything he's involved with going forward

[jovial sandal]

He directly tells people to make up their own minds on things, and to not take his opinions as their own

[flint raft]

I wonder if there’s any fun servers for it, that’d be neat

[frozen nimbus]

Everyone arguing about who's side is right when the only problem here is all the haters who have nothing better to do with their life

[hardy ingot]

yeah, he doesn't seem very concerned about correcting points when talking about it

[indigo wadi]

He has said he's wrong on a number of things, so that's incorrect

[spiral parcel]

You see, instead of show me a moment of self reflection, you are drowning my arguments with empty statements.

[thick ledge]

Most people arnt constantly questioning themselves, confidence is not a bad character trait

[jolly sky]

He has also admitted multiple times over things small and large that he doesn't know the answer to, and then comes back after finding out what that answer is.

[hardy ingot]

Would love SWTOR classic, the game was amazing before the kotfe heresy happened

[charred wolf]

Oh joy, constant internet sensationalisation forcing a narrative?

[flint raft]

Well more so the people who made the games that put these issues in motion

[unkempt mason]

I'm not sure if you're talking about Scott Ross or Thor.

[charred wolf]

Where have I seen this before?

[flint raft]

Yess totally agree

[jolly prism]

Well, there are a lot more eyes on SKG now than there ever could be - Thor take or no Thor take. If it still fails Ross has nobody else to flame but himself (and the way he wrote the initiative).

[dusty mist]

If online games such as MMOs or Mobas are forced to build the games to allow for private servers, the actual user information at best is compromised, but there's multitudes of other issues ranging from hacking issues, to copyright issues, to hostile takeover issues, and a bunch more.
Yikes... Yeah (as for copyright issues, I discussed slightly earlier about how those can be circumvented, but the potential hacking, compromising, and hostile takeovers are a real issue)

It ain't feasible in any way shape or form to do this the way that SKG is going about things.
Especially not in light of Scott's latest video where he put the cards on the table where the issues that Thor raised that this initiative as it's goals are described would lead to games being killed off is in part if not full the goal of the iniative. Because he doesn't think games should be allowed to be designed to be online games in the ways MMOs, Mobas, or even shooters and a bunch of other stuff is designed.
Oh shoot, yeah. I think this (as you said, problematic) stance is quite counterproductive. I think it they should definitely be more open about the issue.
Discussing potential ways for companies to implement Self-Hosted game modes (so that the game remains playable after the closure)

I very much think self-hosting is the way to go for those sorts of games, it again just needs all the security (and copyright) issues addressed

[teal zodiac]

What i dont understand is why does this need to be a law, why needs to pass by the government? This could and should be related to market signals like praising companies that does what the people believe its good for the industry (like Megaman X DiVe) and punish the ones that does harm (Like Helldivers 2). It's not perfect but at least its natural

[tight bramble]

Just manage that knife edge. Confidence and arrogance are closer than people realize

[indigo wadi]

If Thor is wrong on something and someone shows him the evidence, he will accept it

[spiral parcel]

Wtf is scott ross, never would have known him without skg.

[wintry pond]

also just a question. If he thinks that thor misrepresented everything, then why wait 10 months to clear things up

[indigo wadi]

People hate a confident person

[lunar moth]

If I want to start an initiative, I have to have a goal in mind: "Everyone deserves clean drinking water, so let's start an intiative where everyone should have access to it."

As an European, I can make that request which is what initiatives are - but they have to be clear and know what they want to achieve. As has been demonstrated here over and over again; SKG doesn't do that, unless it wants to kill off online gaming effectively altogether except for big AAA-companies, it doesn't do that.

It is vague, it is undefined, it refuses to be clear on what it actually wants, and the stuff it is clear about is the stuff that Thor responded to. This is what has been said in this channel over and over again for hours at this point, just today. Furthermore, if you provide a concession in the initiative itself, part of the initiative is that concession which is why the line of "it is an easy win for politcians" immediately invalidate this proposal.

It is just a slogan used to pander to people online and that's all there is to it.

[urban venture]

yeah. among other things but in terms of the disingenuous aspect that gets thrown around I can't personally attest too, I need to look into the situation more and to be honest I only did it in the last few days because it found its way into the discord. otherwise gonna be honest I wouldn't give a shit otherwise.

but I've dealt with a lot of hard headed weirdos before. sometimes you got to entertain them even if it's a bitter thing. at the same time, putting your foot down and not doing so is equally entertainable.

which one is best here? IDK, seems so moot. seems mundane to the point it makes me yawn

I just wish people would behave, so discussions could actually flow

[indigo wadi]

They want a sheep they can boss around

[flint raft]

I’d say he’s kinda similar to Thor about things

[thick ledge]

He made a half life 2 role-playing video 15 years ago

[jolly sky]

This happens on almost every single stream.

[thick ledge]

That's his big claim to fame

[jaunty vine]

If I may inquire, was this in the video he recently posted? I confess I hadn't gotten around to watching it all.

[thick ledge]

So if you know him. You know him from freeman's mind

[charred wolf]

He was known for doing video game skits iirc?

[dusty mist]

Mainly so that companies stop selling people games that will eventually shut down anyways, leaving to wasted money.
This is a big reason why I believe in the SKG initiative, even though I very much (currently) disagree with the way they are going about it.

[unkempt mason]

EXACTLY BRO

[dry osprey]

Look how people take it. Someone points at thor and BAM everyone wants a piece. They dont read. They dont listen. They just want money. And for that they need to jump on the wagon of drama

[hardy ingot]

I mean... even just copyright is an issue that's been discussed for past... 2 decades roughly all over the internet and it never got resolved in any media, so I think it's a bit of an issue that "copyright and security" would need to be resolved 😄

[charred wolf]

I did not know him prior to skg so take it with a grain of salt

[teal zodiac]

on the other hand he is human, he is a normal person, and ofc sometimes he will be more or less adamant about certain things. Which is ofc natural

[flint raft]

To be fair half life 2 is goated

[tight bramble]

Man yall type so much so fast. I'm over here with my factory worker hands lmao

[opaque pine]

That’s why Thor always gets the blacklash. HealthyGamerGG pointed them out back then when he had a sesh with Thor.

It’s society nowadays.

[unkempt mason]

It's pathetic tbh.

[charred wolf]

No shade thrown but I don't understand why people are hostile to Ross or Thor

[flint raft]

Omg I know this chat is going 🏎️

[frozen nimbus]

Lol im on mobile rn

I can barely read

[dry osprey]

Think about the wow drama. After that the drama about animal well and so on

[thick ledge]

Here's my compromise I came up with, what If games that will eventually shut down have to have a big cigarette style disclaimer of this front and center on thier store pages

[lunar moth]

As me, others, Louis Rossmann, and even Thor himself (in this channel today) has said: if SKG just wanted clear rules on how games are categorized when sold, folks would be massively in favour of it!
... but it isn't, and that's the problem.

All SKG is advocating for in its current state is, effectively, "kill off online gaming."

[dusty mist]

Yeah. I can very much see that.

[thick ledge]

That'd solve it no?

[dusky grove]

Either they're bored, or they're boring people.

[hardy ingot]

Because (most vocal) people are more interested in the drama, not the initiative

[thick ledge]

The consumer would be informed and no one would feel robbed

[green plank]

if i had to make a guess a lot of "video game'y" content creators (asmongold, moistcritical, mutahar, that other guy thats a lot smaller [josh something]) all are saying guys this is important, mostly just cause its called "stop killing games" and its like a vibe

[unkempt mason]

Ross because he said some absolutely ignorant shit, and Thor because they dou like how "he's dealing with it" I guess. People wanna be butt mad.

[wintry pond]

so, every game ever, since people dont know if a game will shut down or not

[flint raft]

Hence why some people think there’s drama farming

[balmy bone]

yeah.

[dusty mist]

Yeah! This is also a really good compromise!

[hardy ingot]

I mean there is, there absolutely is, just not these two necessarily

[brazen drift]

My whole take is that both guys are good guys, its just unfortunately for Thor hes got more weight behind what he says and people do, for the worst imo, take what people say at face value most of the time so when the signatures DID dwindle Ross understandably got upset since hes clearly put his heart into what hes doing.

[tight bramble]

Booty bothered