streamchat

[winter sierra]

Heres mine

[earnest mirage]

oh cat posting. Here Thor with his buddy 😄

[steep surge]

So floofy

[indigo wadi]

MEATBALLLL

[viscid kraken]

Don’t conflate not supporting the proposal as written with “accepting the death of art”

[steep surge]

With HIS cat (:

[viscid kraken]

People are wild

[winter sierra]

Yea shes a floofer

[viscid kraken]

Meatballposting

[steep surge]

How often do you have to brush her lmao

[viscid kraken]

[winter sierra]

Like once a week

[winter sierra]

Meebal

[upper zephyr]

The internet is made of ones and zeroes and as such so are opinions made on the internet.

[viscid kraken]

Meble

[winter sierra]

Floof on full force

[steep surge]

I was about to say
That‘s a little dramatic

[winter sierra]

M

[viscid kraken]

Bl

[steep surge]

Oh what really? Even in hot weather? Mine sheds like half his body weight every few days atm

[viscid kraken]

“That’s a little dramatic” is going to be my response from now on

I’m prepping for another one

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

[winter sierra]

Yeah. She is pretty good at de-fluffing herself but i help every week. Although it was every day when she was shedding

[steep surge]

You‘re welcome
Just a tad dramatic these statements

[viscid kraken]

Aye a wee bit dramatic lad

[ancient timber]

Until we get regulations in place regarding the destruction of videogames, that's exactly what happens. Many worlds, artistic expression, gets lost when that happens. Luckily it might recide on the HDD of an old server of a company, but it's mostly dead to the rest of the world.

[wet storm]

An apocalyptic smidgeon

[steep surge]

Just a teensy tiny little bit 🤏

[upper zephyr]

If it can be made once it can be made again, it’s not like homer was writing all that stuff for the first time by himself. It was just the stuff that survived countless retellings.

[viscid kraken]

If an artist decides to lock their painting in a vault, even after years on show, is that their choice?

[upper zephyr]

People get all bent out of shape about preserving the feeling they got when they first experienced something, but really we should focus on doing something different rather than constantly reliving the past

[steep surge]

Dude, it‘s old games that are no longer in service
You‘ll be fine
Make new games yourself

Heck
Pick up a pencil and draw
Make music
Create art if you‘re so afraid to lose it

[steep surge]

I personally always eat my paintings after a certain timespan

[split tulip]

I'd liken it to the closing of an amusment park. it's not going to be around forever, but you still have the memories you made there.

[river cargo]

I understand why people want to preserve old games, but what ross did is not the way to go

[viscid kraken]

This tracks

[wet storm]

Probably but when they pass away the vault gets indiana jones'd

[steep surge]

https://tenor.com/view/kirby-hungry-famished-starving-eating-gif-17203120126493562641

Me with my old paintings

[teal zodiac]

That being said, i would step on 2 Legos to have Dragalia Lost back again. Heck, maybe even 3 Legos!!

[wet storm]

After seven or eight of those you get the British Museum

[viscid kraken]

https://tenor.com/view/wreck-it-ralph-bunny-pancakes-gif-22741592

[arctic needle]

Why do you hate waffles?

[wet storm]

However if I comission an art from an artist and they put a detonator on it that destroys it after a set period of time, I think I have the right to be cross

[viscid kraken]

Because pancakes cause this in 100% of cases

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-pancakes-wreck-it-ralph-gif-11221126

I have one result that shows this

Therefore I am right

[upper zephyr]

You must love bansky

[steep surge]

Oh my god the slow one is worse

[split tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/thingdoms-banksy-gif-23776570

[viscid kraken]

I guide others to horrors that I already possess

[winter sierra]

I hate that animation of the bunny

[woeful lantern]

mmm, bold move, but incorrect.

[viscid kraken]

Wrong

[woeful lantern]

Waffles are superior

[viscid kraken]

Accountability

[woeful lantern]

this is simply the correct state of the universe.

[steep surge]

Oh dude we‘re sharing horros? Hold on…I got a few aswell-

[winter sierra]

Waffles are better

[viscid kraken]

Specially horrors from kids films

That makes it more fun

[viscid kraken]

This is true, yes

Because pancakes cause the above

[winter sierra]

Yea

[split tulip]

making a game with a actual self-delete timer would certainly be a bold artistic choice.

[steep surge]

The stuff from kids movies is somehow always the worst kind

[split tulip]

reminds me a bit of the Unus Annus project

[upper zephyr]

There are games which prevent you from playing more than once

[woeful lantern]

Most horror movies go too hard on gore.

[steep surge]

I‘ve never had a problem with adult horror movies but somehow kids movies are just plain disturbing sometimes

[winter sierra]

I agree

[steep surge]

That too
More gore = more entertaining I guess

[steep surge]

HOLD ON SOMEONE SAID UNUS ANNUS

[split tulip]

maybe cause they can't rely on gore or anything explicit. has to be more psychological

[steep surge]

UNUS ANNUS UNUS ANNUS

[upper zephyr]

Is that like bigus dickus from Monty python?

[teal zodiac]

every single episode of goosebumps left a scar on me

[jaunty vine]

Yeh, and folks are allowed to mourn the loss of Unus Annus.

Heck, I never saw it! And now I never can. That is admittedly part of that art. Some things are just going to be ephemeral, be it intentional or not.

[steep surge]

Yes, exactly
But that‘s life, man
Things disappear
Better accept it

[upper zephyr]

Deep man, so deep

[jaunty vine]

I'm sure there are some games that are lost to time that only five people have ever bought and played. There are maybe hundreds if not thousands of game prototypes so close to being released but never do that only the testers and stuff play.

[split tulip]

there is actually an entire field about those experiences: phenomenology

[steep surge]

No, it was a youtube channel that was deleted (together with all of its contents) after exactly 365 days
Celebrating that things aren‘t permanent
Embracing the death of things

[upper zephyr]

We used to just go to shows and concerts but you can’t do that with online stuff the same way cause someone can easily record the internet.

I did go to Shakespeare in the park this last weekend, you gotta embrace the now

[jaunty vine]

Like, I do not expect that everything will stick around. And sometimes I'm upset at things that get taken away, like Super Mario 35.

I'm down for game preservation and want as much stuff to stick around to be enjoyed later, not at the expense of artistic expression though.

[split tulip]

streaming has a bit of that feeling. being there in the moment is not the same experience as watching the vod

that's also why I prefer the weekly release TV show, rather the Netflix binge model. keeps people talking about the weekly episdode, discussing what might come next as you're all experiencing it together

[warped plume]

Has Thor given his opinion on this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIfRLujXtUo&t=1761s

[steep surge]

And yeah like it‘s a couple of things you mourn that got taken away like Super Mario 35 but its a selective few things you hold dear

If everything stuck around, it wouldn‘t be special anymore

[upper zephyr]

We used to call this “office culture” now you look like you’re skipping out on all your responsibilities if you stream the whole season when it comes out. Feels bad man.

[jaunty vine]

On his Twitter afaik.

Not a video opinion or response.

[thick ledge]

[steep surge]

Gonna be honest
If I watch something I binge it
But I‘m just incredibly impatient and absorb stuff as a whole or not at all
I also don‘t want to talk to people during it lol
But thats only ME

[warped plume]

thanks will check his twitter out

[cedar shale]

He deleted his response

[indigo wadi]

is it consider meatballing if meatball sits on Thor's face?

[vivid coral]

Tbh my take on it is "If you love something, let it go." We all love the games from our childhood, There will always be memories and videos on YouTube, any game will never die

[indigo wadi]

What was this in reference to?

[cedar shale]

His tweet on the video

[steep surge]

What a terrible day to understand those words

[jaunty vine]

Apparently his Tweet in response to Ross, which I was not aware it was deleted.

[indigo wadi]

thor deleted it because of the nonsense he got

[jaunty vine]

That's what I presumed happened.

[upper zephyr]

Agree, also Nintendo shouldn’t be charging people $7 a month to relive their childhood on switch Nintendo retro service. 🙂

[indigo wadi]

bwahahaha

[cedar shale]

Yeah sure, "nonsense". Im sure deleting a tweet helped him out

[indigo wadi]

death threats, harassment, yeah, nonsense

[steep surge]

Yeah thats a whole other can of worms

[upper zephyr]

It is @steep surge

[jaunty vine]

Yeah that doesn't really constitute as "nonsense."

[warped plume]

I've never understood buying a game you already have remastered.

[vivid coral]

Here is some cat photos to remember to be happy and enjoy what you have

[jaunty vine]

< Has Metroid Prime
< Is too dang lazy to break out the Gamecube/Wii
< Gets Metroid Prime Remastered

[warped plume]

that is messed up

[indigo wadi]

i say nonsense because i can't swear 😛

[cedar shale]

Guess I will never be able to check since it got deleted

[steep surge]

Dude people literally called his phone and doxxed him

This isn‘t about „I‘m sure it helped him out“
It‘s not even about his opinion anymore
People are just being hateful
Let him delete the tweet

[jaunty vine]

Also in the case of FFX, FFX HD Remaster is the international version compared to the US version. So it's the complete, later released version instead.

[jaunty vine]

Yeah, you can't. Such a shame that.

Not that it seems there's particular interest in empathizing, more to prove some sort of point.

[indigo wadi]

Well, you can google, but here, i did the hunt

[warped plume]

It feel to me as the person who bought the orginal version that they gave me a half baked product. If the base game isn't good than I don't trust the company anymore.

[indigo wadi]

Only posting it for Karam's sake btw

[jaunty vine]

Oh make no mistake, FFX is good. The US version didn't get the extra stuff released in the PAL/International version. Nor does it need it.

So for someone like me who just wants more FFX? HD Remaster is a good purchase.

[cedar shale]

Yeah Im sure that he got unwarranted shit over his response, Im not denying that. But lets not pretend that his tweet was likely also filled with replies justifiably calling him out, and deleting it only made him look bad and painted a negative picture of Thor

[river cargo]

thor hit the nail on the head when he said "your community is f------ rabid"

[jaunty vine]

Well that's certainly in poor faith.

Are these callouts actually justifiable or is a bias showing?

[warped plume]

Well know I know his opinion on it. Its sad when creators fight but not everyone can nor will agree I guess.

[indigo wadi]

the replies I saw against him were complete trash and normal twitter insanity

[indigo wadi]

100% bias showing. None of them were in good faith

[steep surge]

Yeah exactly
How do you even have a proper discussion in such an environment? You can‘t

[indigo wadi]

granted, i didn't see all of em

[river cargo]

it's why it's so disappointing to see moistcritical side with ross scott 😦

[cedar shale]

Ty but I had already found the tweet, I was referring to the replies of the tweet which you cant find. All I had instead was quote tweets and screenshot tweets and it was a mix of people calling him out and insults getting thrown at him

[indigo wadi]

yeah, that's the normal twitter experience

[warped plume]

I literally just found it and wanted to know Thor opinion on it since I know he has a large influence in the gaming space. Didn't know it got that dark on the subject.

[indigo wadi]

most social media you cannot have nuanced discussions

[steep surge]

Yeah I‘ll just add to the pile and make everything worse

[cedar shale]

I wouldnt be able to find out, but I would assume its a mix of both as twitter outbursts usually go

[indigo wadi]

It's been getting dark since onlyfangs

[warped plume]

I wasn't a fan of world of warcraft so I tuned out of that whole drama.

[river cargo]

thor really should make a video reprimanding these other content creators for blowing this out of proportion

[steep surge]

People called his actual phone
That‘s how far some people have gone

[steep surge]

I think that would just make it worse

[indigo wadi]

Lucky, honestly

[indigo wadi]

nah, there's no point

[river cargo]

the proposal is poorly thought out, he turned on people giving him advice, he cultivated a community of negativity etc.

[warped plume]

IRL has got me busy so I feel like I miss all the drama. Tbh, not mad about it either since it seems like its mentally draining.

[vivid coral]

If thor does anything, I don't think he should make a video, he should do a segment is his stream like he did with the one stream (forgot name) about ashes of creation. And do that for SKG with moist/Charlie

[indigo wadi]

i am beyond exhausted and numb of the drama

[jaunty vine]

That's a bit complicated. Pushing for the "Stop Killing Games" initiative that two lawyers, EU or UK I admittedly am not sure, have penned and lead which is poorly written and thought out. And as a whole seems to not like representing Thor's takes in good faith, possibly doing disingenuous cuts.

[river cargo]

It's a nothingburger blown out of proportion by people like tectone and moistcritical

[jaunty vine]

Tell me, what defines a game in a playable state?

[steep surge]

Also because the videos of other content creators take only snippets of Thor‘s videos and it just makes their respective communities add on to the dogpile of hate and vile behaviour

[cursive solar]

a game being in a reasonably playable state is a game where you can engage on its marketed game features and content, simple

[warped plume]

I think it would be interesting if Thor played the worst games and gave critics afterwards on how to make it a viable product. Like reaction meets development critic,

[vivid coral]

I mean he does his game jams

[jolly sky]

Sometimes a remaster does a worse job than the original with mods

[jaunty vine]

Okay cool. Now define what are marketed game features and content.

[indigo wadi]

Josh Stife Hayes, does that already

[wet storm]

I think the best way is to compare and contrast League of Legends and Dota 2

LoL isn't playable offline. Dota 2 is.

So if both Riot and Valve pulled the plug at the same time LoL is not left in a playable state, but Dota 2 is

[indigo wadi]

a lot? it's like...10 months

[cursive solar]

it would depend on the game, what your asking is specifics, i cant give that when every game has different features and content

[jaunty vine]

If you're already tired of my pestering for definitions, that's the literal thing you have to do when writing stuff for a bill or initiative. The fact it's so vague to start, is poorly written, and suggests not a lot of thought has gone into this, despite Ross' statements that he's spoken to a number of lawyers otherwise.

[river cargo]

another ross bootlicker sadly

[split tulip]

if "it depends", then it ain't simple

[indigo wadi]

nah, i consider Josh in the middle

[cursive solar]

jesus

[indigo wadi]

he has a middle of the line take

unlike others

[wet storm]

Not necessarily, for a bill yes, initiative no. The definition is exactly what gets discussed within the legislative body

[cursive solar]

some people i guess find it hard to wrap their head around some things

[wet storm]

I think I had this conversation yesterday

But ngl I am very weary of so much drama

[jaunty vine]

Well that's a whole lot of nothing right there. So how is that going to be accomplished?

[indigo wadi]

all of us are

[cursive solar]

features and content that are advertised, i shouldnt have to clarify what content cause that is irrelevant

[split tulip]

you're talking about politicians here. make it easy for them to understand what you want them to do about it

[indigo wadi]

politicians barely understand tech

nevermind video games

[cursive solar]

are you a politician

cause my fault if you are

[split tulip]

and how do you do that? a developer is going to need specifics

[jaunty vine]

Okay, so why should parliament use their time with this? And what's going to come of it? Do they have a gameplan to suggest anything? Because what is parliament going to talk about?

[split tulip]

no. but I'm not the one you have to convince to pass it into law

[cursive solar]

then why are we talking

[cursive solar]

a developer would know their own content and features, i dont know what your asking here

[split tulip]

are you expecting to find many politicians in #streamchat ?

[wet storm]

Because people like being contrarians and demand answers from those who aren't specialists like the burden of proof is solely placed on the other party, without accounting for their own curiosity

[jaunty vine]

Yeah no, I know, if I'm going to be hit with the buzz that is that sentence, that's a non-starter. The thing is, how is this going to be accomplished?

[wet storm]

Crossing your arms and sayin "convince me" is incredibly rude

[indigo wadi]

but why though?

[indigo wadi]

is it? convince me

[wet storm]

Drama

[wet storm]

Shooting you with water pistols

[indigo wadi]

lol

[cursive solar]

no, i was saying why are we talking cause you said that your not the one i should be trying to convince, i dont exactly have a lawyer in my pocket

you didnt understand

[vivid coral]

Well this is starting to get toxic... I'm taking a break from this chat

[flint sinew]

[steep surge]

Of course! That‘s where I expect to find all my politicians Like coins under the couch cushions

[cursive solar]

this 100%

[jaunty vine]

I'm not signing jack squat if I don't agree with it because it's too damn vague.

[steep surge]

Henlo!

[wet storm]

This is horrifying

[flint sinew]

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/exile-lion-mad-furious-gif-5863311

[wet storm]

idk why but it gives me the heebbie-jeebbies

[split tulip]

so why are you in here, discussing a topic, if you're not interested in discussion?

[cursive solar]

?

bro what?

go to sleep

[flint sinew]

[jaunty vine]

Did the guy I was mostly talking to just like, get banned or what? XD

[steep surge]

https://tenor.com/view/looking-hiding-peeking-gif-19517602

[split tulip]

a game being in a reasonably playable state is a game where you can engage on its marketed game features and content, simple
you're the one who posted first, then I replied. not sure what you're expecting here

[cursive solar]

okay so we are actually back on topic now instead of you asking silly questions?

okay good

[wet storm]

The whole playable state thing is much easier if you just consider a multiplayer game that needs multiplayer can be played on LAN and criticize the initiative on the fact it doesn't touch MMOs

[cursive solar]

asking whether or not im interested in the topic im talking about was so pointless

[wet storm]

It's not that complicated

[jaunty vine]

Okay, now ask a bunch of politicians to write laws around that. How are they going to accomplish that? Because it needs to be airtight, otherwise that's how you get loopholes and crap.

[wet storm]

It's more than that but it anchors the definition into something that we already have

[split tulip]

the petition does not separate out MMOs. it address all of them

sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union

[wet storm]

Like if they pull the plug on Halo Infinite, they leave the game in a state you can still boot it and play it either with bots or on LAN

[wet storm]

That is exactly my point thank you

[cursive solar]

ive noticed lots of people say that the initiative is bad because it doesnt zero in on specifics, thats where i disagree, i dont think thats bad because the whole purpose of the initiative is to bring attention to games being rendered unplayable, i mentioned earlier the tony hawk pro skater 5 example and everybody stopped engaging when i gave that example

it was actually a good example

[jaunty vine]

Like, I take umbrage with the statement Ross made in the first video regarding this, that this was made to laser focus to cause as little impact as possible.

The scope of this is a bloody laser scattergun if that's the case.

[steep surge]

Sooo
How would that apply to already older games tho?
Are you suggesting only the newer games should have this feature or would devs need to go back and add it to already existing, older games?

[wet storm]

The proposal is not retroactive

Older games that are online only are already dead

[cursive solar]

and also most people here i gaurantee have not even watched ross' latest video, maybe not even his video from 10 months ago and just heard thors opinion

[wet storm]

Omae wa mou shindeiru

NANI

[disconnects]

[thick ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/ape-thinking-gif-23551020

[flint sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/akuma-gif-27353983

[steep surge]

The whole „bringing attention to it“ is started to be a really lame excuse
Bring concise ideas for solutions to the table and don‘t ask impossible demands

[jaunty vine]

It's sloppy is what it is. Lacking specifics doesn't give people much to talk about. Especially if what they're doing is perfectly legal as set out by the End User License Agreements.

[wet storm]

Factual, every time a live service game has its plug removed Akuma white screens it

[flint sinew]

[jaunty vine]

Because when we play games we agree to these contracts.

[cursive solar]

you dont know what these impossible demands are

[split tulip]

yet it's not getting the votes. it's not getting the attention and I believe a part of that is because it's not specific enough and dosen't provide any realistic plans

[steep surge]

We literally watched the first video on stream with Thor when it came up 10 months ago

[wet storm]

I think more than that, and more than Thor's involvement, is people just not caring

[indigo wadi]

I do wonder if Ross will attempt again with better wording

[wet storm]

"So what if the game dies"

Which is megasadge

[steep surge]

The impossible demands are to make every game still playable after it‘s shut down
It‘s an impossible demand

[vivid coral]

The problem with the vagueness of the solution allow people in politics that are making the decision, to make the wrong decision. If they don't know what they're doing or what they are fully making the decisions on it could cause more problems than it fixes

[thick ledge]

doing it again with better wording would be the gigabrain play

[indigo wadi]

I don't care to watch Ross' video. He proved that he's not watch worthy to me

[thick ledge]

but it wont happen

[jaunty vine]

I literally re-watched that video, dug up the FAQs, and watched the kickstart which was the Crew video.

My opinion may have a color of bias from Thor, but I actually agree with him without that bias.

[wet storm]

It has been done in the past. Impossible is only real until someone does it

Heck, it was the standard until always-online started

[split tulip]

please do. but focus on one issue and work out something feasible with developers

[indigo wadi]

i mean, i ain't ross

[thick ledge]

the time period your referring to did not have many online games

[frigid crown]

Ross ain't coming back after this, at least not leading anything. He says he's already devoted too much to what will seem a hopeless causes if this one fails

[thick ledge]

and they also shut down and werent playable

[cursive solar]

if im being honest, i cant gaurantee you watched it with an open mind, but it happens alot when people watch it with someone they respect their opinion about (broken english, sorry)

[steep surge]

It‘s not about online or not
It‘s about hosting, sharing, copyright
And so much more

[wet storm]

Hello? Every game blizzard released until Diablo 3 apart from WoW? Every shooter? Every sports game? Every racer?

[cursive solar]

it not getting votes i cant say why, but all i can say that its very clearly wrong

[jaunty vine]

Oh really? What games are you aware of that required being online that the developers turned around and made completely available after the game shut down?

[thick ledge]

this guy has never heard of phantasy star online

[wet storm]

Hosting what?

[cursive solar]

no, not every game

that is literally wrong

[steep surge]

Sooo
Now you just assume I wasn‘t open minded because I don‘t agree with you?

[indigo wadi]

Didn't he also try one in the US?

[thick ledge]

thats the default

you either dont understand or are intentionally ignorant if you disagree

[cursive solar]

okay, well i dont think your well informed so i wont take your opinion seriously, its up to you

[jaunty vine]

None of these games mentioned required being online. None of them are part of the "live service" argument. They had servers, sure. But even a shooter like MW2 had P2P connectivity and didn't require being online.

[thick ledge]

so theres no debate to be had

[wet storm]

Dear lord it's like talking to a brick wall
That's an MMO

[thick ledge]

mmos are video games my guy

[wet storm]

MMOs are the weak spot on the initiative

And I said that before

[thick ledge]

more games today impliment mmo features

like destiny and such

[cursive solar]

no, thats not what i said

[split tulip]

Dune too

[thick ledge]

back then, mmo like features were exclusive to MMOs because it was a relatively new feature

[jaunty vine]

No they ain't.

[thick ledge]

now more games have online components

[wet storm]

That's on the FAQ, not the ECI

[split tulip]

where in the petition is this?

[thick ledge]

and consumers arnt entitled to own MMO servers after they shut down

thats silly

[indigo wadi]

why would i watch someone that's completely disrespectful? I haven't seen Ross do anything respectful during this entire thing

[jaunty vine]

Is it not relevant to the conversation about the ECI? That's what's on the docket.

[wet storm]

The problem is that the ECI is left intentionally vague, each person fabricates the interpretation they like most and fight like that's the intention of the ECI

[jaunty vine]

If we want to split hairs and it's not part of the topic, then we can forget the FAQ exists and any point Ross has on it can go to hell.

[cursive solar]

i want to know how you view the timeline of things, who started being hostile first?

[indigo wadi]

not when talking about the ECI itself. It cannot be included

[thick ledge]

yeah at that point throw out anything ross has said too

if its not in the ECI it doesnt exist

[indigo wadi]

Ross because he couldn't accept Thor's critcism

[stone nacelle]

Please, its more important who is hostile now

[split tulip]

if the points were that important, then they should be in the initiative

[stone nacelle]

Why the pitchforks

[frigid crown]

Before the EU one yeah, but he figures this was the best shot and if it fails then people just don't care enough for it to ever work. Not directed at you but I get the impression people think he's only been trying to make a change in the last year or so. He's had videos going back at least like 6-7 years trying to bring attention to this kind of topic.

[thick ledge]

thor said he didnt like it as it was written

[cursive solar]

was this 10 months ago?

[thick ledge]

and then the STG reddit went BALLISTIC

[jaunty vine]

Fair I suppose, it's not part of the initiative then and is part of "stopkillinggames le dot com."

[indigo wadi]

if that's the case, then yeah, i can see why he'd give up at this point

[wet storm]

Because appearing smart and smug calling out someone rather than attacking their ideas is apparently more fun

[indigo wadi]

Yes

[wet storm]

It's exhausting to have a conversation

[jaunty vine]

And no, I concur. And Ross even brings up that they're important in a previous video.

Or at least, brings them up at all. And the recent video cites the FAQ.

[cursive solar]

well you just lied, ross has deliberately not engaged in drama with thor purely because he didnt want the movement to look like a sorry excuse for farming drama and keep it serious

[thick ledge]

thor afaik has never disagreed with the spirit of the initiative, its always been the lanugage

[thick ledge]

how is the new video not drama

[cursive solar]

until yesterday when ross actually engaged as a last ditch effort to bring attention to the cause

[thick ledge]

over half of it is drama lol

[vivid coral]

Didn't he just engage with him?

[indigo wadi]

umm...Ross literally started being hostile? What? LOL

I certainly didn't lie.

[cursive solar]

i said 10 months ago, i noticed you are new to the conversation

[wet storm]

If that's the case the power move is to re-write it and restart it when the voting window expires July 31st

There's no cooldown on ECIs

[indigo wadi]

bruh

[cursive solar]

well send me the clip, comment, tweet whatever

[thick ledge]

thats what i said

[indigo wadi]

oyu wanna go at Zaf? LOL

[frigid crown]

And the fact that really he just likes playing games and making content and the more he focused on this the more it impacted his livelihood and ability to make things he wants to make

[cursive solar]

not from yesterday

[thick ledge]

fix the wording and put it back up

[vivid coral]

Ok why did it take Ross 10 months to comment?

[thick ledge]

then everything is solved

but they wont do that

[indigo wadi]

nah, you're purposely trying to white knight Ross, no thanks.

[cursive solar]

because he didnt want to bring attention away from what the cause actually is, he wanted to keep it serious rather than making it look like drama bait to others

[cursive solar]

wait what?

[thick ledge]

well its drama bait now

[wet storm]

I'm gonna bow out of this conversation, it's really tiring. Hopefully this drama dust cloud goes away soon

[steep surge]

and the lack of practical solutions of it, right?
Especially how to deal with copyright too
Or do I remember that wrong?

[thick ledge]

so if he was trying to avoid that, he failed

@steep surge pretty much, it was the lack of any real plan that didnt hurt small devs

[split tulip]

yes, cause it failed to address any of those

[thick ledge]

the spirit of it was always fine

its the proposed implimentation that was objectible

[vivid coral]

So he let his work die for 10 months, and then throw Thor's name under the bus and pick and choose clips that make him look good

[cursive solar]

yesterday was the first time ross engaged with the whole ordeal with thor after what thor said about the movement, thats a fact and if people want to accuse me of white knighting then honestly reflect on yourself

[jaunty vine]

Also in the instance of a company going under and the game's servers have to go down as part of that... What then?

My fiance and I asked that question, you (general connotation) can't hold a company liable to follow-through with a law if they aren't collectable because they dissolved.

[indigo wadi]

no it wasn't

[thick ledge]

@cursive solar your saying all this like that attack video doesnt exist, and that is what it is

[cursive solar]

oh my god, no man, it is literally impossible to talk to people once they have their mind set

[indigo wadi]

Ross engaged 10 months ago

[cursive solar]

the one from yesterday?

[vivid coral]

I was already against it before I knew thor existed

[cursive solar]

please read what i actually say man

[thick ledge]

yes the one that spends 33 minutes of its hour run time shitting on thor

[steep surge]

Yeaah exactly
I mean, even bigger studios…
It all depends on the type of game
Some games are just impossible to make playable when they are discontinued

Like
How would Pokemon Go or Monster Hunter now work? Lol

[cursive solar]

and thats exactly the issue, you dont seem open minded at all, thats my perspective about you

[split tulip]

that's actually a good point. didn't think of that

[jaunty vine]

That means he looked at it and said no though? He approached it with an open mind and determined to be against it.

[thick ledge]

if you disagree, you simply dont understand or arnt open minded

[vivid coral]

I'm asking you questions so I can see from your perspective and your just saying I'm wrong

[cursive solar]

so im not sure if your doing this on purpose but i have sent various messages asking people to send me something from 10 months ago, not yesterday, cause people were saying ross started it

[thick ledge]

or are malicious i guess

[indigo wadi]

Ross presented his initiative, thor was asked tocomment, thor did, did his 2 videos, ross clapped back, Thor hasn't engaged with it since

[steep surge]

Oh yeah lemme just make the location based game playable without servers with my magic pixie dust I guess

[indigo wadi]

till yesterday

[thick ledge]

thor refused to engage in the debate ross wanted to draw him into

and now that its about to fail hes trying to force it]

[steep surge]

Possibly as a last hail mary to get more signatures…

[cursive solar]

i dont know what you want, i ask for something from 10 months ago, i get no evidence, i get accused for white knighting, people then say the evidence is from yesterday, then it repeats, like theres logic in this

the question was who started it, 10 months ago

[indigo wadi]

we are literally telling you what happened

[thick ledge]

im honestly not bothered to dig through clips and reddits to find it

look for it yourself

[cursive solar]

to find "it"

well guess what "it" doesnt exist

[vivid coral]

#googleexists

[thick ledge]

the evidence your looking for, are you trying to get semantic with me now

[indigo wadi]

because thor is going to randomly not engage for no reason, not because Ross was being a twat

[cursive solar]

you cant say it happened, then ask me to find your evidence

[indigo wadi]

because said evidence is most likely deleted? dunno

[thick ledge]

its not worth the work for me because ultimately

[cursive solar]

i cant be bothered anymore

im getting rage baited

[thick ledge]

i genuinely dont care what you think lol

[indigo wadi]

no you aren't getting rage baited

[cursive solar]

yea, clearly

[indigo wadi]

you're being informed of the timeline of events then refusing to accept them, then getting angry about it

[jaunty vine]

It does exist, except it isn't yesterday's video. No, it has to be from 10 months ago.

Goalpost moving behavior.

[vivid coral]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSvLqB46Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jMKeg9S-s
There

[steep surge]

Dude
From your whole discussion, it seems you weren‘t bothered to understand our side in the first place

[cursive solar]

guy tells me something is fact, says evidence exists, tells me to find his evidence, actual joke man

[cursive solar]

how

i understand both sides

ive said before i have

[indigo wadi]

you've been hard defending ross this entire time

[cursive solar]

but im talking about my view, not others

[jaunty vine]

Do you? Genuine question, do you understand our side? And why we're defensive and outspoken against Ross and this movement?

[cursive solar]

and what does this prove, ive watched the videos

[cursive solar]

yes because it could hurt developers and especially indie devs because of extra costs, and i get that, it could also hurt mmos and games as whole because the initiative isnt clear and you guys are worried that politicians will hurt games rather than help

yes i understand

but i also disagree with that

see i can understand both and disagree

whereas most people ive talked to cant

[jaunty vine]

Literally none of this has been discussed by us specifically. That's Thor's standpoint.

[indigo wadi]

so you understand why thor chooses to not engage with ross who was hostile adn his community who continues to be hostile?

[steep surge]

You do not.
You literally told us we‘re close minded using excuses like „it‘s only because we watched Ross‘ initial video with Thor“

You came in here with a bias, already convinced we‘re bad people and close minded because we disagree with you. This was never a genuine debate on your part. No matter what we say, we can‘t make you see our points

[cursive solar]

that is literally not true, i talked to someone earlier about it

[plain widget]

provide an example of ross being hostile.

[frigid crown]

I mean if we're talking timeline I'm pretty sure it was Thor talked about it on stream, made the first video, Ross reached out to have a dialogue about things which got shut down, and then Thor made a 2nd video on it. I don't really blame anyone I just think it didn't look great.

[cursive solar]

ross was not hostile first, and those thor videos dont show that whoever linked them

[steep surge]

And how do you disagree
How will it not hurt small devs or other game companies?

[indigo wadi]

uh huh, keep telling yourself that

[cursive solar]

you still have not provided anything disproving that, but go off i guess

[indigo wadi]

and the fact that Ross spent 33 minutes blaming Thor is not proof enough that he was hostile and was hostile first 10 months ago? come on mate

[cursive solar]

this is the right timeline of things

thank you

people saying it started yesterday dont know

[frigid crown]

I mean no that doesn't really prove historically what happened

[jaunty vine]

If so then I apologize. The point being though, is that I'm not just against it for that. I'm against it because it's not practical to hold a giant company accountable for this. It's not practical to spend that extra money and develop a "playable version," whatever that means, of a game when it's sunset.

Honestly it being presented to the EU as well and not pursued in the US, is really a bad look for a US citizen to push when it's all considered. If this backfires, because it can, developers just won't release their games in the EU, and that's a crock of shite.

This is a terrible idea on several levels. The legal side of it in particular.

[cursive solar]

@jaunty vine devs will absolutely always release games in the eu, its too big of a market

[jaunty vine]

To wish and hope for this to succeed is something above and beyond a pipe dream.

[indigo wadi]

Doesn't Thor literally talk about this in his videos?

[jaunty vine]

What statistical facts are there to back that up?

[frigid crown]

It was pursued in the US, we don't really have the same level of consumer protection and it was dead in the water

[cursive solar]

that the whole of the eu is a massive market for games?

[steep surge]

In his very first video his takes were so atrociously not thought-through it bothers on mockery. That guy never thought about practical solutions or bothered to talk to devs before causing this huge uproar with his initiative. It shows lack of not only effort but also a lack of wanting to understand the other side.
This was done without empathy at all.
How can you even debate about something with someone so ignorant about the consequences of his proposal?

[split tulip]

not if it would mean losing their IPs, face sanctions or similar

[cursive solar]

that is something that does not need a statistic

[jaunty vine]

If you want to make your point, yes it does.

[cursive solar]

some things are common sense

[jaunty vine]

That is small change to the rest of the world.

[vivid coral]

I just realized something....
Games will die without constant support due to OS updates and console changes.
Everytime a new console/OS version comes out 99% of the time they don't work on that console/OS with some sort of update or code change

[split tulip]

companies will absolutely block regions if they see them as not worth it. just look at Sony and how they blocked most of the world from playing their games

[split tulip]

and who's gonna pay for that?

[cursive solar]

theres almost 500 million people in the eu, game companies will never stop selling games in the eu, thats statistic enough

[vivid coral]

And theres ~1 billion in china which also require there own version of the game most the time

[jolly sky]

Not if the results of the legislature cost more in fines than it does for the game to be created in the first place

[frigid crown]

I can still pull out my old console and play the games I own on that though

[vivid coral]

Taxes?

[jaunty vine]

Then tell Ross to stay in his damn lane? He's not part of the EU, so why is he pushing for, and possibly even asking two lawyers not from the US to push for an initiative that's not his own country?

[steep surge]

Yeah that‘s the damn problem too
That‘s why Thor mentioned the cost of ongoing development even for shut down games
Even if a game is shut down, you would need an extra team or atleast extra work to keep it playable

[cursive solar]

that is something nobody can know here, so there is no point in using that as an argument

[vivid coral]

True, because you actually own them

[split tulip]

is the government going to update the games?

[indigo wadi]

Cause EU as stronger gaming laws

[cursive solar]

and you think devs will stop selling to china? i dont get your point

[steep surge]

Why do we need all the old games then when we constantly get new ones
How many games do you neeed

[vivid coral]

Good luck with that, and how many languages will they need to learn to make that possible

[indigo wadi]

I mean, it's literally a financial decision. If the fines outweight more than the profit made, it wouldn't be worth it

[cursive solar]

if your talking about costs its not possible to know costs

[jolly sky]

Nobody can know exactly how the Initiative would be put into law either, but from its opening, not much of it was good

[jaunty vine]

It absolutely is a point using that as an argument! It could be an end result, and legislation has to account for that. Otherwise it's dead in the damn water!

[vivid coral]

Just saying the EU isn't the biggest nation/group

[cursive solar]

people talking here about costs dont know the costs, admittedly me and nobody else here can argue costs because we dont know if the costs will be much higher

[cursive solar]

i never said it was

you assumed that

i said its a massive market

[steep surge]

Even if its 1€
Who‘s paying it?

[cursive solar]

too big to just skip on the eu

[cedar shale]

Why the hell are people talking about the economics of the petition??

Workers: "We should demand better work conditions"
Executives: "But think of the negative economic impact it will have to our bottomline!!!"

[indigo wadi]

not if the cost outweights the profit

[jaunty vine]

Correction, the statement was that developers would not skip over the EU because it's too big a market. The counterpoint made though is that China is bigger. Why wouldn't devs skip over the EU if they make enough money from China?

[nova bough]

people need to vote with their wallets on games that are live service that have no business being live service. i think thats the heart of the issue. but people tend to not vote with their wallets en masse

[split tulip]

we'd first have to know what specifically the initiative would want from game makers. the details

[cursive solar]

the devs, im sorry if this is a rediculous example but when the seatbelt was invented, it added to the cost of making a car but it inherently was best for the customer

[frigid crown]

I don't really think it's anyone's business if I would rather play games made before rather than just keep going to the next thing all the time

[cursive solar]

customer > devs

[jolly sky]

Because the costs in terms of fines, and how much it would cost to have more people maintaining said game if the Initiative went through, are all things that will have to be considered

[cursive solar]

and im sorry but thats my opinion

[jolly sky]

With that opinion, you wont get any games

[indigo wadi]

terrible example. Saving old games is not the same as a seatbelt..

[cursive solar]

and im gonna ask how, and i know you dont know

[split tulip]

if this is to happen after end of service, which is usually when studios close, how will they work on it?

[steep surge]

So you want devs to pay to keep games playable? You see how that puts strain on so many especially small devs? Development is expensive enough

[indigo wadi]

when cost outweighs profit = game not made

[steep surge]

Yes and that too
After a studio closed who will pay it then?

[jaunty vine]

Or rather, once a studio closed and say in the hypothetical they released the playable version, but maybe tomorrow it's no longer playable, what then?

[cursive solar]

theres alot of questions people have and they expect a normal person like me to know everything, i give an answer to something but theres always 1 more person asking me something else or arguing semantics. doesnt help when ive got 3 or 4 people asking me different questions

[steep surge]

You‘ll survive without old games
It‘ll be alright

Go make new games

[cursive solar]

feel like im doing okay somehow

screw art i guess

[split tulip]

I would have hoped for the petition to answer that. would help clear things up for everyone

[indigo wadi]

aint no one playing the crew in 20 years time

[cedar shale]

Alright then, we should stop fining facebook and google because they might one day take their service out of the EU

That is straight up a horrible perspective that reeks of corporate pandering to have. The cost isnt being passed to game developers, its being passed to AAA game publishers and their already greedy bottom line.

I would actually argue giving AAA "more work" is BETTER for game developers because that means MORE WORK which means MORE PAY. But once again, this is pointless hypotheticals to be having at this stage of the discussion

[cursive solar]

okay

[jolly sky]

Disagreeing with a badly worded Initiative does not mean we hate art lmao

[cursive solar]

im over it now

i care too much about art, people dont see that

[split tulip]

as someone who loved the crew... this is a fact

[steep surge]

Lmao
Go make new games
Go make NEW art

[cursive solar]

we can have both

[indigo wadi]

except devs make games because, 1: They want to, 2: To make money.

[cursive solar]

but people dont want to try

[river cargo]

I think some people in thor's community do like art preservation, BUT what ross is doing isn't it

[steep surge]

Its an impossible ask, bud
You‘ll survive without older games

[split tulip]

I care a about art and the artists who make it. and I want make sure those artists can pay rent and make more art

[cedar shale]

I dont see yuor point

[frigid crown]

"Go play new games" is such an annoying argument, I like to play old games so shoot me.

[jolly sky]

"The cost isnt being passed to game developers, its being passed to AAA game publishers and their already greedy bottom line." Where did it say that in the Initiative?

[indigo wadi]

IF THE OUTSIDE COSTS OVERRIDE THE POTENTIAL OF PROFITS, THE GAME WON'T GET MADE.

[cursive solar]

i just dont get how thor couldnt just talk to ross, and i dont want to hear again from people that ross was hostile first, im sick of that talking point cause its just true at all

[indigo wadi]

jfc, it's been explained dude, you just refuse to listen

[cursive solar]

no man

stop

[steep surge]

That‘s not the point
I like old games too but my desire to play old games doesn‘t warrant the negative impact the initiative causes

[indigo wadi]

No. that's the god damn reason. Accept it.

[jaunty vine]

It's demanding of devs - oh sorry we're apparently saying publishers - to spend extra time and money to develop and publish a "playable" version of a game.

The art was made, it is preserved we have record of it. This initiative doesn't want the art to remain, it wants the toy to remain.

[nova bough]

part of me what happens to IT in general if they did something like that. it would fundamentally change things everywhere for software. unless they specifically made it only for games.

i wanna see the popcorn worthy stuff that comes out when some business software goes out of support and the company who made it has to cough up some support or give source code.

[indigo wadi]

You simply cannot accept the fact that Ross made it near impossible to be talked to because his initiative was criticised, period

[fallow token]

The problem is Thor is completely, and utterly unable, to handle any level of criticism. And if you dare insult his intelligence by saying he doesn't understand something... oh boy. You say Ross can't be criticised...? Geez...

[cursive solar]

you have given me the same talking point saying that ross talked shit first to thor, i asked when or what he said, you didnt provide that, i specified not from yesterday but from 10 months ago, you then asked me to find your own evidence then called me a white knight, you out of everyone ive talked to today, i have no respect for you because you are disengenous

[steep surge]

And even IF we lost it
So what?
There‘s no lack of new games and new art and overall new content
There‘s more than ever before

[cursive solar]

everyone has actually been somewhat okay to talk to, except you

[indigo wadi]

10months ago and no, im not gonna go and do your digging work for you.

[frigid crown]

In what way with his first attempt to reach out to Thor getting denied in any way, which was followed with Thor releasing another video on it afterwards. Ross dropped it afterwords because it just wasn't going to happen.

[jolly sky]

Except that there has been multiple times, from people in his chat, from people talking to him directly, to people even here in back and forths where this is not the case

[cedar shale]

Nowhere, just like it says nowhere in the initiative that publishers have to rework their games and ensure to ship it with open source code or enact more work of developing server tools.

My answer is a reply to the unneccessary hypothetical of "extra costs" that is being used to dishonestly dismiss the initiative's aim of raising the issue instead of solving the issue

[jaunty vine]

Dude, trash take. 🔫 Sprays with water gun.

This is as closed minded as it gets. If one wants the old stuff back, make it into new stuff.

[cursive solar]

you accused him, so its on you to provide the evidence, end of

[cyan widget]

Guys, guys, fight will not solve shit... You are just enjoying being angry

[indigo wadi]

because I don't tolerate constant denial when presented with a fact.

[split tulip]

I don't really care what they think of each other. what I care about is the initiative and how it's been handled. e.g. not well

[jolly sky]

Except that is what would be literally required to make them supportable after it gets sunsetted

[indigo wadi]

You have mutliple ppl saying the same thing mate, accept it and move on

[jaunty vine]

AFAIK this is not the case. When?

[cursive solar]

please ban this guy @indigo wadi , i actually dont understand what hes trying to achieve

[indigo wadi]

roflmaoooooo

you think that's ban worthy?

[cursive solar]

i tried talking to you

[indigo wadi]

thank god you ain't a mod

[untold seal]

Straight to jail! Banned!

[cedar shale]

You heavily dont understand supply and demand if you think some legislation will kill the gaming industry. Apple didnt stop making Iphones because they are being forced to adopt USB C and allowing 3rd-party app stores

[indigo wadi]

I tried explaining, you refuse to accept it, I cannot help that you cannot accept whats presented, so based on that, you want me banned? Grow up. Hoenstly done with you at this point.

[frigid crown]

I mean I love when fans organize to get games playable again, and a new game is literally different even if it is similar/inspired by older things. What are you talking about

[cursive solar]

ive disagreed with everyone here, but you have asked me to provide evidence for something you yourself said, then you gloss over everything i said, straight up rage bait

[tranquil crest]

NGL this whole SKG thing is a major L by Thor. Just my opinion. Huge fan, but he definitely didnt characterize this properly.

[vivid coral]

And we've done the same for you, but all I've gotten was "You're wrong"

[indigo wadi]

there's no supply/demand if the costs outweight the potential profit.

[frozen sonnet]

Okay real debate time, pineapple on pizza yay or nay?

[indigo wadi]

yay

[wet storm]

Finally some good content

[nova bough]

thor had a take, and it isnt what people liked. but most people arnt aware of the behind the scenes stuff that happens to keep online products available.

you dont have to agree with the take, its just...his take.

[steep surge]

You didn‘t even answer a single of my points too
You don‘t provide any solutions for the problems in your initiative

[cursive solar]

oh my god please man.. i have made talking points, im not gonna repeat them again cause your gonna ask again

[wet storm]

Nay for me, yay for thee. I do not judge the toppings of others

[jaunty vine]

That's not the same thing though? The losses from the outside costs didn't outweight the profit so they took the hit?

[split tulip]

USB-C does have quite a bit of issues with it as a standard, mostly from not being specific enough. also mandating a common plug does mean no one can innovate in that field anymore

[cedar shale]

Alright, and exactly what is the problem of telling AAA multiplayer studios to design their future games with EoL in mind?

[cursive solar]

ive got 4 people pinging me, im gonna miss messages man, chill out

[untold seal]

Thor could have supported SKG , and it would have still failed.

[wet storm]

If we're out eating pizzas and you insist on pineapple and ham, let's do half and half

[cursive solar]

im literally 1 person talking to 4 people telling me im wrong

[indigo wadi]

Thats even funnier tbh

[frozen sonnet]

That’s some good sharing

[vivid coral]

We will really never know

[cyan widget]

People want to keep playing lol 😂

[tranquil crest]

I love Thor as much as the next person, but he probably should apologize. He basically tanked the movement with his mischaracterization.

[indigo wadi]

They don't love themselves

[steep surge]

You‘re focusing on some guy and arguing small details when your whole initiative has several major issues

[jaunty vine]

Nay, but go nuts I don't yuck others yums.

[indigo wadi]

apologize for what? giving his perspective? Come on

[frozen sonnet]

[indigo wadi]

He did not tank the initiative. What a delusional take

[tranquil crest]

He was caught making stuff up.

[indigo wadi]

No?

[steep surge]

Lmao
How about the intiative and its community apologise for the horrible treatment Thor and this community is getting?

[jaunty vine]

Okay regardless of everyone's stance on SKG, this is one game we agree just dies. Okay?

[cursive solar]

is this guy this myke fella, because your right, i cant believe i wasted so much time engaging with him, sorry about that

[indigo wadi]

If one person can tank an initiative, then it wasn't that great to begin with 🙄

[frigid crown]

I'd like to point out again that you don't have to have the answer to every single thing to start discussion over what you view as a problem

[frozen sonnet]

Real

[split tulip]

I've read the initiative myself am not impressed. I'm sure many will have a similar opinion, but not just because he said it

[flat moat]

if that was the case, then Ross Scott should have gotten other popular content creators to voice their support over the past 10 months instead of being quiet in order to maximise his possibility of success

[tranquil crest]

Listen I understand all of you guys are kinda hurt by this, but we shouldnt give Thor a pass on this.

[indigo wadi]

exactly

[tranquil crest]

It doesnt matter if it was doomed from the start or whatever.

[nova bough]

i personally dont think he mischaracterized it. the whole movement isnt how IT support for online products work. trying to make it work lime what y'all want makes mmo's and other like games no longer feasable for developers to make, or companies to invest in.

[indigo wadi]

roflmao, k

[cyan widget]

Thor gave his opinion, all in my view valid

[indigo wadi]

pretty much ya

[jaunty vine]

No he wasn't? The initiative is vague, Thor spoke about a specific aspect that it should maybe cover?

[tranquil crest]

He gave his opinion based off falsehoods though? Like we dont see a problem with that?

[cursive solar]

i dont care whether or not thor effected the cause anymore cause people are gonna argue that he did or didnt, i think him and ross should just talk

[tranquil crest]

I 1000% agree

[jolly sky]

As has been mentioned earlier, it would require massive changes in IP law and various other things for people to be able to suddenly host multiplayer games on a server they own.

It's not just as simple as flicking a switch. For Single Player games that only have a login for Authorisation sure, it can be pretty straight forward.

[tranquil crest]

Set the record straight

[indigo wadi]

everyone looking to put the blame on thor instead of on the person that was handling the initiative from the start

[frigid crown]

He has, he's also been trying to get content creators that can produce videos in non english languages to spread it considering a good portion of the EU speaks other languages

[indigo wadi]

he didn't though?

[untold seal]

We know because the proposal ain't good enough. You cannot just tell people, "Here is some vague idea, lots of people are behind it, you, the important goverment people, sort the rest out" the world never has worked that way.

Games must be preserved. It also needs to be sorted out in a way that is far beyond people's paygrade first before it is presented to policy makers who likely have far worse things to do deal with in the EU currently than video games. They don't care.

[steep surge]

Honestly at this point, its not even about who said what first, who was hostile first
All of that don‘t matter

We‘re at a point this community gets bombarded with hate every darn day, you lot ruin our streams, and all about some OPINION Thor has on an issue
It‘s gone too far, man
Focus on your initiative and tangible solutions
Not on one content creator who disagrees with you

[cedar shale]

I heavily doubt that, if sometihng better than USB-C comes along then it will get adopted aswell. The standardization was to reduce e-waste and stop corporations from trying to lock users into a technology that isnt even the best

[tranquil crest]

Thats the misconception. They arent talking about MMOs specifically. That is not what the initiative is asking for.

[cursive solar]

fine, i dont care anymore whos fault or who started what, can we at least reach some common ground or meet in the middle everyone that thor and ross should just talk, whether in private or on stream, thumbs up for yes, thumbs down for no

[split tulip]

this whole thing feels a lot like "I want all games games to be free", which I agree with the sentiment, but how can you do that without bankrupting devs?

[frozen sonnet]

Like I’ve had pineapple pizza before and it’s pretty good at times, but other times it just tastes off? Maybe it’s just me

[wet storm]

Maybe the pineapple was off

[split tulip]

they didn't exlcude them. they refer to all video games

[jolly sky]

I didn't mention MMO's either. That also goes for things like Call of Duty, Battlefield etc

[steep surge]

Nah man
That ship has sailed
There‘s been too much hate

[flat moat]

it's been 10 months, people are harassing him to try and change his opinion and all it is doing is making him double it down. add in the death threats, add in the mods being harassed, Heartbound being tanked etc

Thor has been very civil in regards to this topic ever since it's been brought back up. he could have lashed out and decided to shut everyone out but no, he only shut out those not actually looking to talk but to rather insult him.

This isn't giving him a pass but also it's not up to us to punish him when it is a shit situation

[indigo wadi]

there's nothing to talk about anymore. The initiative is dead, Ross as proven that he's incapable of talking to thor respectfully. I certainly am not on board with forcing that.

[cursive solar]

this is how things dont get sorted, if people dont talk, this will just keep going

[frozen sonnet]

Ya know it could be that, I think if the pineapple is fresh it’s better

[split tulip]

well now we'll never know. just glad we didn't settle for micro-usb

[jaunty vine]

Then what is it asking for?

[indigo wadi]

I once had pineapple pizza that made my face feel fuzzy

[cursive solar]

can i ask, from you then and not the other guy, do you think thor started being hostile first or ross, yesterday was not the first time btw for context

[steep surge]

Nope
Your initiative failed
Get over it and drop it or make it better
Its that easy

[frigid crown]

For the government to look at the problem and have a discussion over it

[tranquil crest]

And im not saying we should punish him, but I dont think the community just waving it off and reassigning blame is the play either. This feels like the whole situation with Dr. K all over again with a new controversy.

[cyan widget]

Better luck next time

[frozen sonnet]

[indigo wadi]

yeah it was weird

[split tulip]

and yet it's not getting votes

[cursive solar]

wdym

[split tulip]

clearly something is missing

[jaunty vine]

Except legally it's not a problem. We signed the EULA, we agreed to it.

[cursive solar]

did you ping the wrong person

[steep surge]

WHO CARES at this point?
WHO CARES who was hostile first
It‘s not about that
You‘re initiative has major problems in its demands

[cedar shale]

And how is that a problem exactly? If SKG makes us revisit IP laws and makes it harder for corporations to hoard IPs that they never use then that sounds good to me as there are thousands of cases of companies trying to hoard IPs and patents for the sake of denying other people, especially the ones who made them in the first place, from continuing work on them

[frozen sonnet]

Are you allergic to pineapple?

[indigo wadi]

Nope, had pineapple recently and was fine

[frigid crown]

Legal doesn't mean moral

[cursive solar]

okay can i ask then, why has the ship sailed, do you think ross didnt ask early enough?

[split tulip]

if you want to go after patent trolls, make a petition for that

[nova bough]

my .02 cents.... shift the convo/initiative, and focus on games that shove live service into a game that has no buisness being live service. push back on that, specifically. put guideline on what it takes to be a live service game.

[cursive solar]

there is no negative to them talking, i dont get that

[jaunty vine]

Sure, it's still legal and parliament isn't going to budge on that.

[cursive solar]

to just talking?

[frozen sonnet]

Spoiled pineapple maybe

[jolly sky]

Because it comes from their own characters, designs, code etc. It's all theirs, and the customer doesn't have the rights to own that, and nor should they. And for customer to host the servers on their own machines, they would need to own that IP.

[indigo wadi]

Thor doesn't want to talk to Ross and Ross has clearly shown he's not able to talk respectfully

[plain widget]

???

[indigo wadi]

tis a thought

[cedar shale]

and that is a BIG IF. I heavily doubt that a ECI would make the EU visit multiple aspects of the law and they would only clean up some of the consumer rights acts to tackle software licenses and such.

After all, nothing is guaranteed in a ECI and the considerations are supposed to come afterwards

[cursive solar]

and why doesnt he want to talk to ross

[jaunty vine]

It's fine to challenge the legality of it. This initiative ain't it with how vague it is.

[indigo wadi]

roflmao, don't make me repeat myself

[untold seal]

"The government's of the European Union, I declare that you pay attention to my conversation about vidya games."

[flat moat]

We're not reassigning blame at least I believe most of us aren't. Thor has a lot to grow still and I'm here for the journey. His talk with Dr K has helped but it's not going to be like flipping a light switch in order to suddenly get better. He's a brilliant guy, he just has to process these things with some help as self-reflection isn't the easiest skill to develop

[cursive solar]

go on

[indigo wadi]

nah, i ain't falling for that bait

[cursive solar]

wdym

cause you dont know, okay i understand

[indigo wadi]

ive stated why, ive no need to repeat myself again

[cyan widget]

What about #StartKillingGames

[cursive solar]

im asking clear questions asking for clear answers, and now its bait cause what im asking for is clear, okay

[indigo wadi]

heck just based on ross's community, i don't blame Thor for not talking to Ross

[indigo wadi]

EAs done that very well

[frozen sonnet]

Yes

[fleet meadow]

source: trust me bro

[cursive solar]

LMAO

[indigo wadi]

cause i alreadyh answered previous and don't feel like giving the same answer?

[cursive solar]

sure man

[cyan widget]

Dude is BR give him a break

[steep surge]

Well, partially yes
He should have talked to devs and worked out tangible solution BEFORE going public and kicking this whole thing off

But NOW all of that doesn‘t matter anymore
The people fighting for Ross and his initiative have caused AGONY for this community
Thor received death threats, phone calls even… it‘s over man
This is a rift of hatred your initiative and Ross (especially with his latest video) has caused that can not be repaired
There‘s no way they could talk after all this

[jolly sky]

Because for the umpteenth time, he doesn't want even more hate, death threats, doxxing upon him. Unfortunately happened now completely outside of him

And that's his complete right to not want that

[flat moat]

the comments on the new YouTube video about $80 games such as the new Borderlands are so nonsensical. "maybe there should be an initiative to save these $80 games"

absolute balderdash

[cursive solar]

okay, thank you for an actual answer,i appreciate it

[frigid crown]

Bad actors gonna bad actor, ross has denounced people doing that and already said it was not his intentions. People are going to coopt anything they can if they already hate Thor.

[split tulip]

internet gonna internet

[nova bough]

its called steam sale

[vast pilot]

oh, but talking to asmongold with the community he has? that's totally fine 🙄

[indigo wadi]

lil late for that at this point

[indigo wadi]

Because talking to asmongold purely about gaming is perfectly fine?

[cursive solar]

i want to understand where peoples minds go to and some people, not pointing at anyone, makes it very difficult 🐉

[tranquil crest]

For sure i'd just like to see Thor admit to some of what he said though, but I also understand SKG is brigading like hell, and trashing him.

Honestly guys SKG's main pillar is the point where we "Dont own the game" and its basically being "licensed to us". The fact that any game dev can just yoink a game from any of your libraries with no recourse or reason is a problem. There needs to be more regulation on this in general, and that I think we can all agree on as a whole. These business practices are absolutely anti-consumer and predatory as heck.

[indigo wadi]

thor hasn't said anything worth apologizing about

[fleet meadow]

so talking to ross purely about the petition should be fine too

[flat moat]

yep

[untold seal]

If one person can kill whatever initiative you have, it ain't good enough.

And do not go around saying that is because Thor has a giant influence , and he swayed it. That statement makes no sense considering he is public enemy number one no (and for the past 7 months). His fan base and popularity went down. Hell, the reverse should have happened after all the drama. People should have even more fired up to get the thing signed so that it can be a "proverbial " middle finger to Thor.

That certainly not happen.

[split tulip]

a lot of those bad actors we're openly planning in the skg reddit. with no moderation actions taken against them

[nova bough]

welcome to IT software. corporate america is also like this.

[cursive solar]

dont bother arguing with him, he goes in circles

[jaunty vine]

I didn't like that he did that either, I don't like Asmongold. At the end of the day though, that's like a president you're under in EVE or something talking to the president of another nation you're maybe not a fan of politically. It happens, and frankly it's probably good Thor did talk to Asmongold in the end.

[indigo wadi]

Already explained why Ross is a no-go

[jolly sky]

Except that was literally only about misinformation about AoC, and nothing more. And any thoughts that Thor was "platforming" Asmongold is a complete brainrot idea

[fleet meadow]

you said asmon was ok though...

[steep surge]

Listen
If you had a guy in your life that you had a disagreement with and this guy‘s friends start sending you death threats in letters or over whatsapp, would you still talk to the guy and try to solve it?

Also the intiative is not going through, there are too many signatures missing, no matter what happens or who talks with eachother
It needs a rework

[plain widget]

you suer spend a lot of time explaining how you've already explained something

[indigo wadi]

ABOUT GAMING PURELY.

[tranquil crest]

I work in IT for over 10 years. Dont gotta tell me. This is an entire different ball game/argument, and should not reflect what we are talking about here.

[indigo wadi]

Because they talked about a game

and asmon hasn't been a dick to thor

[fleet meadow]

so talking to ross purely about the petition is ok too

[untold seal]

It is perfectly normal to have a civil professional conversation with someone you do not agree or like.

[cursive solar]

oh yea i know its over, theres no saving it now, but can i actually show some respect to you actually giving me an answer

[fleet meadow]

and ross was? Any proof on that?

[frigid crown]

Not ran by Ross and is an open forum, can't speak for why mods there didn't handle shit but honestly reddit mods are often not great.

[indigo wadi]

Bruno? this your alt account? Not engaging.

[plain widget]

dawg, stop talking if you're not gonna engage

[fleet meadow]

nope, im not bruno but nice diversion from the original thread

[nova bough]

it kinda is, when it comes to live service games. they are very simular. pay to access. (though, like i mentioned earlier, some consumer protection needs to be put in place for what games can be made live service.)

[indigo wadi]

i'll engage until I feel a point where it's pointless

you don't get to decide and tell me when to engage

[jaunty vine]

Yeah, exactly. It's not normal to have a conversation when followers of the other guy are threatening to kill you.

[tranquil crest]

Listen guys I just want to buy a game, and own the game. Did we all forget what happened with Nintendo's e-shop, when they closed it, tons of people lost their online purchases? That's the type of stuff that needs to get regulated. Ross has not done a good job communicating that, but Thor also probably shouldnt have put his spin on it either. Both people can be wrong, its absolutely possible.

[plain widget]

More meaningless platitudes. Very cool!

[indigo wadi]

Brunos 3rd account? okay

[fleet meadow]

Not related to bruno in any way

[jaunty vine]

We agreed to a contract with the e-Shop. In fact we agree to a contract with Steam. Steam's gonna go away someday y'know.

[indigo wadi]

lol sure

anyways

[frigid crown]

I'm not trying to excuse people being dickheads on the internet but like, that's the state of the internet, it's real easy to plant yourself into any topic and say some horrific stuff regardless of that persons true motives.

[frozen sonnet]

Man some pizza sure does sound good right now

[fleet meadow]

Yea, no answer so change subject lol

[jaunty vine]

Ah, there's a but. So we do excuse people being dickheads then.

[indigo wadi]

btw. that pizza i made turned out alright. I used too much alfredo sauce

[tranquil crest]

Yes but again, thats a problem

[frigid crown]

Not excusing just being realistic

[tranquil crest]

Thats what I am getting at dude. You dont see a problem with that?

[frozen sonnet]

Oh hell yes!!! That made me craving pizza BAD

[jolly sky]

You don't own any physical media either. All the CD's/DVD's etc have a license for use. If you break that license, then if they really wanted to, they could take that away from you. What would most likely happen nowadays though is a fine.

[nova bough]

yup. making things live service that have no buisness being live service. thats why i said earlier they need to shift the initiative from all games to specifically live service stuff.

[indigo wadi]

last time im saying this. I am not repeating the answer that i've stated numerous times already just to get baited more. Moving on.

[steep surge]

Glad I could give you an answer

I‘m always open for that, you know
Anytime man

Props for still being here after arguing with many people simulteanously

[plain widget]

you've said that like 6 times lmao

[fleet meadow]

you didnt answer, how was ross a dick to thor?

[indigo wadi]

yawn anyways.

[jolly sky]

If SKG was purely about doing away with Authorisation logins for single player games, then it would have been a slam dunk. However, it goes into far more than just that, and without near enough detail to get around how to go about sorting that stuff out

[cursive solar]

haha its no problem, tbh i dont know how i even managed to keep going lmao, was good discussing

[flat moat]

I do agree that there needs to be some form of adjustment to the licencing framework but also we need to be realistic: licencing works to grant access to the necessary file repos and the likes as a form of Active directory permissions. logically, the licencing to the files should be kept separate to actually keeping the game files. if there is an online portion, then a copy of the licence can be used there but if the online service needs to be terminated, then the files can be kept and only the official server online play is affected.

on the matter of Thor, I think apologising now in the middle of the eye of a storm would go against all values and also lead to more dog piling. People cannot respect differing opinions unfortunately

[plain widget]

run myke, run!!!

[indigo wadi]

if it's eating you up that badly, go look for it yourself.

[fleet meadow]

Yep, nice going, change subject lol

[indigo wadi]

it's called, moving on. try it 🙄

[fleet meadow]

So basically source: trust me bro

[indigo wadi]

breaking out the block now since ppl can't learn i guess 🤷‍♂️

[cursive solar]

@fleet meadow dont worry about mikey, he tends to go round in circles and asks you to find stuff for him 😆

[fleet meadow]

YOU brought up ross being a dick to thor and when i ask to prove it, you refuse to answer XD

this guy XD

[earnest mirage]

@cursive solar
Thor was asked by some viewers, he looked into it and then explained why he didn't like it. Because more and more people came in chat, he made the first video.

Then ross started to call Thor "our biggest critic" or things like "I think he would be against it regardless" . e.g. https://x.com/accursedfarms/status/1820776020074512657

Then ross community started to dogpile on thor: #streamchat message

[cursive solar]

@fleet meadow its cause he doesnt know, i would just let it go lol, hes one of the folks that just does it for attention

[fleet meadow]

good old conspiracy theorist tactic- do your own research or trust me bro

[steep surge]

Probably pure adrenaline lmao

Btw if you want to see how far this has gone, stay for a while or watch the Vod from yesterday’s stream if its still there
We had hundreds of bans
People straight up insulting Thor and worse
Then you‘ll see first hand why talking isn‘t an option anymore

[flat moat]

did you not see the 20 plus minute rant in the latest skg vid by Ross? Thor's living rent free in his head unintentionally

[cursive solar]

holy shit thank you!

[tranquil crest]

100% fair in the apologizing part. I know that is what gets hairy, because r/twitchfails (or whatever the hell) is an absolute cess pool of Thor dog piling.

[cursive solar]

if your confused why im saying thank you, some guy was saying that ross started it first and didnt give anything to prove it

you did that so i appreciate it

[plain widget]

I'll get banned for this, but whatever. Acting like you're in any way the bigger person in any scenario is laughable. I've seen you in this discord for the past few days and I have never witnessed a more parasocial, knob-gobling-notice-me-senpai loser. The amount of time you spend in here is pathetic considering you have an 8 month old. If I was your partner, I'd be ashamed of the man-baby you are.

[nova bough]

[indigo wadi]

considering you're choosing to engaging instead of respecting my request of moving on, block#3

[flat moat]

bro you've been here for just under 2 days

[cursive solar]

oh damn really? guess im glad to at least be one of the peeps who havent been banned

[indigo wadi]

hopefully this doesn't break the channel

[thick ledge]

Don't be an ass, don't get banned

The rules here are super lenient

[steep surge]

Want me to send you the link for the vod in dms?

[cursive solar]

sure, id be up for that

thanks

[untold seal]

Notice me sendai, notice meeeeeeee, i dunno

[indigo wadi]

HA

[flat moat]

Make a harkgoonen!

[nova bough]

excellent time for a ligma.

also y'all just lost the game.

[jolly sky]

"Make"

[tranquil crest]

Let's all agree that we love Daddy Thor. I do wanna say it was a very constructive conversation, ty @flat moat and @nova bough.

[faint rapids]

Ok how should I spell the ligma exactly

[indigo wadi]

Like that

[flat moat]

no problem mate, anytime. it's always good to converse on a level field so that we both reach an understanding

[woeful lantern]

the Closest Harkonen has to one is "Harkondeeznuts"

but it doesn't work as well

[faint rapids]

Hark on deez nuts? I can't imagine a product for the joke

[fleet meadow]

ross's fans being dicks and sending death threats is wrong. I have no idea why they do this. I like pirate but multiple people have been pointing out his factual mistakes and he refuses to answer them. I dont think thats a good solution

[steep surge]

What factual mistakes

[faint rapids]

Aw man I almost missed your message

[wet storm]

What is ligma?

Chat what is ligma

[fleet meadow]

Just check critikals video or ordinarygamers, they sum it up pretty nicely

[jaunty vine]

What factual mistakes? The initiative is so incredibly vague and intentionally so, supposedly so it can be talked about by parliament.

[indigo wadi]

Chat smells

[faint rapids]

Ligma balls

[jaunty vine]

What they do is just say "Thor's wrong" without saying why.

[steep surge]

I want YOU to tell me
I‘m not debating with them I‘m debating with you

[flat moat]

Harkonutz

Mr Harkonutz

[indigo wadi]

Harktwahthatthang

[fleet meadow]

Thats why i think the best solution for everybody would be thor and ross actually talking to each other and clear things up, maybe make a few changes so everybody would be happy

[steep surge]

Too late for that, man
The damage from all the hate is done

[frozen nimbus]

I think the reason they arnt saying anything is because that just causes more stirring people up. BTW I just opened chat and might have missed some context lol

[jaunty vine]

Would you negotiate with someone if all their friends are threatening to kill and doxx you dude? That sounds like insanity.

[cursive solar]

i think thor and ross working together is a great idea, but yea thats just my opinion

[fleet meadow]

Why should I rewrite what they said? Their videos arent that long, you can check em up

[jaunty vine]

Now scale that up to a bunch of people who aren't friends but just fans.

[frozen nimbus]

Pretty sure it was the reason he deleted the message in news

[frozen nimbus]

^

[flat moat]

At the end of the day, it'll be up to those two to be up to negotiating. Ross isn't in a good space right now and neither is Thor. The situation is volatile and resolution is unlikely.

[steep surge]

Stop reiterating what they said and use your own little head
Give me your own points
What‘s factually wrong with what Thor said?

[fleet meadow]

cant control stupid fans.

[cursive solar]

true

[untold seal]

Both working together would do nothing. They can hold hands, make a ten part million/video youtube series about SKG, and the EU would not care .

[cursive solar]

there will always be hate

[steep surge]

He did rile them up tho

[fleet meadow]

my points are their points

[steep surge]

Tell me in your own words then

[jaunty vine]

There is actually some level of control people have with them. It's called banning them, and taking responsibility for their actions, and telling them to knock it the crab off because they're not helping.

[jovial sandal]

You know whats also not very long? Thor's videos on the subject. I'd recommend watching them, as Ross' video takes his comments wildly out of context

[split tulip]

Have a dance-off to settle it

[cursive solar]

getting angry at each others fans doesnt help anything, them just talking doesnt hurt anyone

[fleet meadow]

English isnt my first language so it wouldnt be as easy for me as it is for you to check the vid

[faint rapids]

Not bad for literally one try with gemini lol

[steep surge]

It‘s not mine either, bud
Stop finding excuses and engage in debate

[river cargo]

as bad as asmongold is, his fans have been far more civil than ross

[fleet meadow]

Why cant you just check the vid? Why must i just rewrite what they said?

[indigo wadi]

which is wild given the audience

[river cargo]

even if his fans are like...ultranationalist right wingers

[cursive solar]

the thing is, he has actually told people to chill ive noticed, i know this isnt exactly big but he would comment under peoples comments to not go for personal insults

[frozen nimbus]

I agree with this^

Both should just watch the others videos

[cursive solar]

you cant stop hate on the internet

[jaunty vine]

That's cute. And where are we now?

[steep surge]

I want to see if you can think for yourself and not just copy-paste what other content creators said

[jaunty vine]

Yeah, and yet some communities are less hateful than others it appears. I do wonder why? It's almost like moderation can help in these cases.

[cursive solar]

theres not much you can do, telling your fans to chill is as much as someone can do

[faint rapids]

Is streamchat more lit than general? I overlooked

[fleet meadow]

Stupid fans are still stupid, whatever you say, white knights will attack the other communities who arent on level with their original content creator

[frozen nimbus]

Mainly debating over stuff

[flat moat]

I think It would be best for people to review the original content and not review Charlie's video as people would be likely to confirm to his understanding rather than make their own

[faint rapids]

Ah

[indigo wadi]

Currently ya

[steep surge]

Streamchat is the debate corner atm

[frozen nimbus]

Which video specifically, im a bit behind everyone

[jaunty vine]

And yet Ross still hasn't done enough if Thor's Twitch is getting flooded with people being jerks.

[cursive solar]

i agree 100%. although most people wont want to do that

they dont care enough

[split tulip]

On fire, as Adele would say

[fleet meadow]

As I said, my points are their points. Why should i rewrite a poorly written essay, when they sum it up nicely?

[jaunty vine]

That's one story, if it were just a handful of bad actors. It's slews of people.

[flat moat]

Penguinz0 new skg vid that was released today

[river cargo]

tbh, truthfully, it isn't just ross' community

it's also charlie

mutahar

tectone

a bunch of other creators too(dan saltman, josh strife hayes, louis rossman) who have dogpiled on and brigaded

[untold seal]

If anything is going to be done it needs to be through big industry developers (not going to happen kekw). The grand scheme of things, Ross and Thor are nobodies . And yes, did is after the petition ever gets passed, and reviewed with far greater scrutiny.

[frozen nimbus]

Didn't you say not to review his video?

[indigo wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/james-franco-the-interview-hate-us-gif-12303612

[river cargo]

blaming everything on ross is false and unfair to him

[faint rapids]

"It's how you know you're on a roll cause you're so hot you're burning up everyone else's coal"

[frozen nimbus]

I probably should have phrased better lol, what is the original content so I can catch up

[split tulip]

It's been a wave if hate. And only got to see the tip of the iceberg

[indigo wadi]

"fans" that go out and attack others shouldn't be consider apart of the original community anymore.

[jaunty vine]

I'll grant that's the case now. I myself am not as familiar as before though I will confess I suspect it was still bad.

[fleet meadow]

There is no excuses for fans who talk shit or send death threats, but there are alot of people who love all of them and want a good conclusion. I have nothing against pirate, he is a good guy, helping ferrets and other charities.

[cursive solar]

talking about other peoples viewers hate brigading thor is not helpful tho, i would almost gaurantee that ross got brigaded by people calling him stupid for not doing a better job and such, everyone gets hate

[steep surge]

Because I don‘t believe that you actually understood the issues they were talking about but fear that you just repeat what your favoured side of content creator has told you

[cursive solar]

also, im not saying its a good thing or excusing hate btw

[flat moat]

I thought you were asking which video to avoid lol

so check stop killing games part 1 and 2 by pirate software after checking Accursed farm's original video.

then check Ross's response then check Ross's most recent upload saying SKG is dead

[cursive solar]

just to make sure

[indigo wadi]

I'll say this. Ross' "fans" that attack Thor shouldn't be considered Ross' fans if Ross has outright stated to not do that kind of thing

[jaunty vine]

When? Where? We got a chatfeed we can point to with dozens of bans, when does Ross get the hate?

[river cargo]

atleast thor makes an attempt to control his community to prevent brigading, which ross, charlie, muta and others have not done

[frozen nimbus]

Ok quick question, forgive me for my obliviousness, who is Ross?

[indigo wadi]

accursedfarms

StopKillingGames guy

[wet storm]

I'm willing to bet substantial amounts of peanuts that the people coming with death threats on behalf of Ross are dire maul drama farmers in pretend

Accursed Farms community has always been chill with me. All oldie dads watching old dos games and Freeman's Mind

[fleet meadow]

I fear that I might mistype some stuff because english isnt my 1st language. Then you can hook on to that and start blaming me for not understanding

[frozen nimbus]

Oh

[cursive solar]

thor is also a large streamer, has actual employees helping him and such

[frozen nimbus]

Lol thank you

[frigid crown]

Honestly for whatever reason a chunk of the internet has decided they hate Thor, Ross has already asked people not to do stupid shit like that but it's impossible to stop people that just want to ride the hate wave from just coopting his movement.

[flat moat]

Accursed Farms, the organizer of SKG

[cursive solar]

exactly this

[jolly sky]

Louis Rossmann and Josh Strife Hayes were pretty reasonable about the whole thing without directly attacking or going at Thor

[river cargo]

and those other guys aren't? those other guys are irresponsible at best with the way they've framed pirate, especially charlie and muta

[steep surge]

You know, imma give you credit for that
It‘s nice to see that you see the good side despite the disagreements

[faint rapids]

Yes his mods are working OT but they ban supporters of thor too if they're too extreme

[jaunty vine]

That's a far stretch at best and conspiracy at worst.

And them being kind to other mutual fans shouldn't surprise anyone? That's part of being in the clique.

[frozen nimbus]

People got nothing better in their life to do 😔

[fleet meadow]

im not against thor in any way

[cursive solar]

i cant say for those guys, for ross tho that is the case, he doesnt have the same viewership as all of them especially thor, neither does he have actual employees and mods and such

has to do everything himself

[flat moat]

remember chat: if there is content, there will always be a react video. if there is old drama, the reactors shall feed on it like fish on plankton when there's nothing new

[vast pilot]

and it's not just content creator comminuties. You got WoW, EVE, Second Life, AOC. In other words, game communities too that seem to dislike him as well

[frozen nimbus]

Doesnt matter who they are, if they gonna break rules and be aggressive they will be banned

Mods need a lot of bread for this OT 😔

[river cargo]

they hate him because he's the most successful streamer in those categories

[flat moat]

EVE was justified, he was too good

[cursive solar]

oh shit, i know this is random but i didnt know there was a magic the gathering chat 👀

[flat moat]

had to get the Devs involved to take him down

[steep surge]

They need to eat grass
No, not touch it
That‘s too little
They need to go outside and eat grass like a moo moo cow to see that they can exist without the internet

[fleet meadow]

never understood the haters. Ruining it for everybody.

[jolly sky]

The people who want to dig deep to uncover old drama (That has been resolved ages ago and was barely even drama at that) focus too much on other peoples personal lives rather than sorting out their own

[frigid crown]

I really wish some of these SKG "supporters" would just touch grass but like I don't think it loses merits just because some people just want to continue hate. It honestly just detracts from the movement and isn't doing anything other than causing strife, but like that happens to other movements that are honestly way more important.

[frozen nimbus]

Yeah its like the whole reason this is even happening

Rip

[river cargo]

we really should pin the blame on the content creators who framed thor

they've dug up 10 month old drama

that isn't drama

and turned it into a hate brigade

[frozen nimbus]

Thats history

[jolly sky]

If all of the SKG supporters asked Thor (or infact anyone) honest questions in a constructive way rather than throwing poop at walls, this situation most likely would have been avoided

[steep surge]

I mean 10 months ago there was already hate happening
Not as severe as now but still

[river cargo]

and listening to mutahar and charlie, they've only spread misinformation about the situation

those 2 are to blame more than ross

[flat moat]

it's not just that, it's also the fact that there are a lot of unhinged people that will use any opportunity to either cause harm or profit

[cursive solar]

i just think ross and thor should talk, i know im beating this topic with a stick but haters on both sides should not be a reason to not talk to each other, that is absolutely just an excuse cause it wont get worse from them talking

[untold seal]

Thor got too big and famous out of nowhere relatively quickly. And that comes with $$$. So people got jealous . I mean when your entire critic of that guy is that "he likely fakes everything " and your only source is a snark forum , you done goofed up.

My personal favorite is that he is accused of faking/nit contributing to his DEFCON badges. My brother is christ, if Thor was faking anything in that community of sweat lords, he would have been called out a long time ago, ten times over.

[jolly sky]

It's over. It's done. It ain't happening.

[steep surge]

Honestly that would require for them to actually care about the issue
I think most of them are not here for the actual issue but just to throw around hate

[cursive solar]

i know, and i think its petty

[frozen nimbus]

What's over? Sorry if I missed something Im still incredibly new to the debate

[steep surge]

Also what $? He gives everything away!

[fleet meadow]

im supporting both of them. Ross has good intentions in mind. Maybe his wording on the documents arent the best, thats why Thor got some of his points wrong. Thats why I think the best solution would be for them to talk live, maybe think about some changes and find a solution that everybody agrees on. People say its impossible now but i still have hope for it.

[river cargo]

i think the context was puzzle games, most people acknowledge thor has certified accomplishments at defcon but they then fall into the drama farming youtubers who claim with insufficient evidence that he cheated at puzzle games

[jolly sky]

Oh for sure there is an unfortunate large majority that will look for any excuse. I've seen the little craters they hide away in and look for said excuses

[cursive solar]

hes saying basically the door has closed for thor to talk to ross (accursedfarms)

[frozen nimbus]

Ah

👍

[untold seal]

Oh, it is for everything Thor does, beyond the puzzle accusations lmao. They think he lied about his goverment job as well.

[jolly sky]

Nah, talking live would not be it. It would have to be a private, off-stream conversation

[cursive solar]

i fully agree with this, damn maybe you are my alt....

[frozen nimbus]

As they usually are lol

[fleet meadow]

Maybe, but talking would mend things and maybe cool off the communities.

[fleet meadow]

lol, maybe, who knows 😄

[steep surge]

I wonder how many people are from the wow stuff and came scurrying out of their holes like hateful little creatures to dogpile on the community again

[frozen nimbus]

Lol was just about to say that

[cursive solar]

@jolly sky whether its live or private i just want them to talk

i think thats reasonable

[jolly sky]

That could happen with videos after the mythical conversation
But either way, its wishful thinking as likely not going to happen regardless

[fleet meadow]

I still hope

[untold seal]

Essentially this argument for SKG is pointless. People hate Thor and think he is fraud in almost everything he does (he somehow surgically implanted a voice box ).

People already have made up their minds about him. No conversation with Ross or anything will change anything. It is pointless.

[steep surge]

Yes this^

[frozen nimbus]

I agree with this, the biggest problem isnt either or but haters who got nothing better to do

[cursive solar]

thats just being pessimistic, your saying basically its too far gone

i dont agree

[fleet meadow]

Haters ruining it for everybody, as usual

[jolly sky]

Oh there are people waiting with baited breath for sure, for any opportunity

[cursive solar]

them talking hurts nobody

[split tulip]

It's the nanomachines

[frigid crown]

I dunno man, the hate brigade is super cringe and made the situation so much worse. I honestly don't think talking will solve everything because some people are just going to hate no matter what, but for me personally I just wish they had a discussion at some point as I think the way everything broke down really sucked.

[frozen nimbus]

Lol we went from voice box in the mic to surgically inserted

[outer gust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/987123333659250688/1374718088376746145/pgat457wwiwe1.gif

[untold seal]

Thor can make a public apology about SKG or some shit, and the suddenly people will just say that because Thor is behind it, it is poisoned , and that we should abandon it and try another way or some other shit

[river cargo]

thor is the most hated person on reddit, youtube, twitter, instagram etc.

[jolly sky]

Schmello Felix

[frozen nimbus]

Next conspiracy is gonna be that thor was born with a voice

Oh hi felix

👋

[river cargo]

it's not pessimism, it's just how bad people have framed him out to be

[wispy plover]

Not only pointless, but he really doesn't owe it to anyone anyways.

[outer gust]

Hello! I have been here

just... watching

[frozen nimbus]

[cursive solar]

still doesnt change that them talking hurts nobody

[jolly sky]

waiting

[outer gust]

👁️ 👃 👁️

[frozen nimbus]

New mod colors

[steep surge]

[vast pilot]

I wouldn't be surprised... doesn't help that a "certain forum" is keeping tabs on him as well.

[jolly sky]

Oh yea, the gradient has been changed

[cursive solar]

@outer gust dont ban me please 😭

[jolly sky]

And be aware, they're keeping an eye here too

[outer gust]

beans you instead

[fleet meadow]

I never understood the hate, guy does so much good

[frozen nimbus]

Fate worse than death

[outer gust]

https://tenor.com/bJ9PL.gif

[cursive solar]

https://tenor.com/view/farty-time-party-time-farted-farting-fart-gif-24244619

[untold seal]

My brother is christ, when people are doing your dad, your animal rescue, accuse by a large majority of Internet users and youtubers of being a fraud in everything without direct evidence, it is too far gone.

[steep surge]

You mean reddit or is there something else?

[jolly sky]

Best left unsaid

Very unsaid

[river cargo]

there are hate forums and discords for thor

but yes, livestreamfail aswell

[split tulip]

If you had made it clear to someone that you don't want to talk about something, and then have the other person keep pushing, again and again. Would you really want to talk to them again?

[river cargo]

if you go to the livestreamfail discord you'll have threads dedicated to hating on thor's content

[frozen nimbus]

[river cargo]

calling him a cheater in puzzle games etc.

[untold seal]

None of this is repairable in any capacity. Like I said, if Thor and Roas suddenly became friends, Ross will be the new target lmao

[cursive solar]

but i just said, them talking hurts nobody, if you think them talking will hurt thor or ross more then i dont know man

[hoary crater]

honestly I just want to hear a calm conversation about it
I disagree with some of thor's arguments even though I overall agree with him but I just dont bother talking about it at all because I dont want to be associated with the SKG community at this point and I dont want to be seen as a defender of the bad in the initiative

[frigid crown]

If we are only talking about Ross and Thor and not community/internet at large, Ross stopped trying for the discussion 10 months ago after it first popped off

[river cargo]

exactly what happened to kitboga

kitboga was harassed over his association with thor

[untold seal]

Maybe 10 months ago, but it is pointless now

[river cargo]

honestly I'm just glad ludwig has thor's back and they're still working on publishing games together

[cursive solar]

if the reason was because thor was being shit talked by thor then id say fair, but all he stated was that him and thor didnt agree in things and wanted to chat

[fleet meadow]

really? I didnt even know that, why the f?

[steep surge]

what

[cursive solar]

thor then said no cause he doesnt agree in the initiative based on his perspective

[river cargo]

yeah kitboga removed his video with thor because his fanbase harassed him

[jolly sky]

Because people are literally unhinged