#streamchat

1 messages · Page 100 of 1

flat tiger
#

I HAVE TOO MUCH COFFEE, YOU CANT STOP ME

summer night
dusk sluice
sacred junco
#

oh boi here we go

summer night
flat tiger
dusk sluice
#

This won't just settle down. We be hearing about this for weeks.

flat tiger
#

oh 1000%

summer night
#

its already been weeks

#

i swear

strange owl
#

A week in one day

summer night
#

its aged me weeks

heavy vale
#

more like months

buoyant arrow
#

It feels like the supporters of the initiative really don't know what the initiative wants to actually do? So yeah, this'll self perpetuate as the understanding of it constantly shifts cause no one has unified talking points.

#

Which is great for legislation, you know stripSuffer

dusk sluice
#

it's like people can't read and just want to yell.

summer night
#

o repeat what i said before i see both sides and I'm not against it because i hate games im against it because its poorly worded i know it the "first part" but people dont hear i support the idea but hate the wording of it they hear. "YOU HATE GAMES BECAUSE YOU ARE A IDIOT AND blah... blah.... Blah....."

gloomy mauve
#

most I see in support seem to just claim the initiative does what they WANT it to do rather than what it actually says

buoyant arrow
#

I think people are just emotional over their video games and latch on this expecting something they're just not entitled to have.

#

Which I kinda get. I really like some video games. So much that not being able to play them makes me sad. I can emphasize with that feeling.

reef thistle
#

Can someone ping me if/when he starts playing MYM?

summer night
remote wyvern
#

Chat, you just lost the game

earnest mirage
#

dammit, lose it everytime

bright rover
summer night
#

i always lose

dusk sluice
#

wasn't here so i didn't loose.

earnest mirage
#

how long does it take steets to port heartbound to the OS of the Fridge?

buoyant arrow
#

Can't lose a game I've already lost stripSip

hidden haven
# buoyant arrow It feels like the supporters of the initiative really don't know what the initia...

oh yes, all i have heard from people that initiative was created to do A, B, C, D, but they are not being mentioned in the initiative, which for me is weird, everyone can interpret initiative however they'd like, same goes for the government I think.

but again, don't quote me on this, I am not part of EU, I do not kno wfully how these things work, though from context I unbderstand initiative gets changed when government talks about it and when it is actually being discussed and what not, though still to me leaving initiative itself vague makes me believe government would find a way to f this thing up in whole extra dimension 😄

summer night
buoyant arrow
earnest mirage
#

i should stop writing in chat. I write a lot of Denglish (mix of German/Deutsch and English) xD

buoyant arrow
#

They'll find stuff like the video that says "politicians like an easy win" too btw

buoyant arrow
hidden haven
summer night
#

tbh this is far more civilised then i was expecting last time there was pitchforks

buoyant arrow
summer night
#

but the day is still young

earnest mirage
dusk sluice
#

Whats the ban score end of the stream in twitch or YT

naive spoke
#

what is that skin

dusk sluice
#

new cursed thing

serene valley
#

MOONFROG

#

HAS RETURNED

earnest mirage
#

ban score? you mean heimdall?

shy tangle
#

so uh, what happened to thor's fiber install?

summer night
shy tangle
earnest mirage
summer night
sterile monolith
summer night
#

i think he said after defcon it should be done BUT ............ we will see

forest glacier
#

I hate that new mic NGL. Makes him sound more nasally and less deep.

shy tangle
#

what was the old one?

#

a yeti or something?

sterile monolith
forest glacier
buoyant arrow
summer night
#

okay I have read 6 comments on the video and I've seen enough. have we really stooped to "You're Wrong your take is wrong unalive blank you piece of blank"

verbal viper
summer night
#

yeah

#

filmed from the new set up

#

i get that is a touchy subject but why?

sacred junco
earnest mirage
sacred junco
#

what's missing is that he doesn't have the windscreen on the new setup

summer night
sacred junco
#

which usually will filter out some high frequency tones

summer night
forest glacier
earnest mirage
sacred junco
#

and I forgot the yeti gx, which is a horrible new product so thats my bad

forest glacier
#

Theres also Yeti Studio and Yeti X and Yeti Nano

#

Almost forgot Yeti Sona

sacred junco
#

god they really get their miles off the blue acquisition don't they

hidden haven
#

wait are those new yeti products?

sacred junco
#

I remembered before blue got bought by logitech, you got the yeti that's thor using, and the snowball ice.

dry osprey
#

Using a used blue yeti, that thor has, for like 6+ years aswell. Still working perfectly good

forest glacier
# shy tangle a yeti or something?

After looking into the website, Looks like Thor's old mic is a Standard model Yeti mic, and the new on at the new house looks like the Yeti X

dry osprey
#

English grammar my favo xd

dusk sluice
#

ok this is starting to give me headache. Time to shut internet off.

sacred junco
#

yea the yeti x is the same yeti body, but with a shorter wire cap on top

summer night
#

im tipping the mods they deserve it for dealing with the idiots

sacred junco
#

after the acquisition, logitech shrink the body down and we have the yeti nano

jolly sky
#

I also have the Blue Yeti Blackout. The only issue is that the Power port is a bit fiddly and doesn't take much to accidently disconnect if the cable is wiggled

forest glacier
serene valley
dry osprey
#

The yeti orb looks... horrible and yeti gx is just a yeti that just glows in rainbow vomit

sacred junco
#

or could be the new room acoustic

forest glacier
sacred junco
forest glacier
#

UGH. Hope he gets a little bit of acoustic treatment, its SO nasally it feels like the voice is super THIN compared to how it is now

buoyant arrow
#

He'll figure it out once he actually Streams from there probably.

#

Can't adjust without any data

sacred junco
#

FFS the trolls are coming in

forest glacier
summer night
#

im going to go deal with work stuff while this carrys on. Haven't Got the time the energy or the crayons for it

jolly sky
sacred junco
#

I think the standard yeti is a multi pickup pattern mic as well

jolly sky
#

I think when the Blackout came out, it was one that had the most pickup patterns

summer night
#

at least more people are being reasonable

#

and not throwing stuff

hidden haven
#

finally i feel validated that i shower every fwe days too because i work from home, and my hobbies are at home xD

summer night
#

i shower when my head gets greasy which is every one day on one day off

shy tangle
summer night
#

ahhhhhh fat joke at my expense

dusk sluice
#

mod's been awfully quiet today. Susge

#

What is happening.

summer night
#

dealing with the poop flingers

shy tangle
shy tangle
dusk sluice
#

most likely. Been raining sh.. a lot i assume.

summer night
shy tangle
#

for someone reason i've got frank sinatra in my head now

dusk sluice
#

no i stopped my head got hurty ill go home soon and no web rest of the day.

summer night
#

this seem to fit

dusk sluice
#

No one used this when Thor posted "pants"

zealous frost
#

isn't today jakes day off?

hidden haven
#

Man what a coinsidence, I started doing ADF and had a refeed day and have insane diarrhea currently 😄

dusk sluice
#

disapointed

summer night
hidden haven
#

I AM WRITING AS I AM PISSING FROM BUTT, i will not elaborate further

dusk sluice
#

thank you for sharing i guess.

hidden haven
summer night
hidden haven
#

sharing is caring lmao

dusk sluice
hidden haven
summer night
dusk sluice
zealous frost
#

I love how Thor has his stream sound track made from songs from the heartbound soundtrack, but any time anyone asks for the playlist order, He just says where the music is from 🫠

#

Like, Thor, love ya dude, but that's not the question half the time. There's 100 songs in the OST and he dosn't play them all

summer night
#

no he does

zealous frost
#

What is the playlist order?

summer night
#

it nots suffled its the order on the soundtrack

fossil sapphire
zealous frost
#

100% no

fossil sapphire
#

what does it even matter?

zealous frost
#

He explicitly plays the same songs in the same order

#

He's been asked to shuffle and his OCD says hell no

summer night
zealous frost
#

He's been asked a few time, and his playing the music on and off right now has me thinking about it

#

just a question that's been stuck in my craw

summer night
#

yeah i bought the soundtrack the other month and its pretty much that order in the soundtrack and only diff if the hype train music goes

shy tangle
zealous frost
#

that's what made me think of it. I walked away from the computer, finished the song in my head, and started the next one, but when i got back, he had paused and not finished the first song

#

so gyped

summer night
zealous frost
#

Defcon: The highest tech place you need to turn your tech off to visit

quiet apex
#

nah

summer night
#

that clip blows my mind everytime

lyric bay
#

Someone can explain this, just a bug on twitch because is happening all channels or is something else?

Stream_time.png
sleek anvil
#

must be a bug for you

image.png
lyric bay
#

And I think my streak counter not updating

summer night
covert monolith
#

could try reloading your page

lyric bay
#

ok looks like is just me

#

tried that and all channels the same

#

thanks

#

WOW just realized the PC had the time I turned off, now I corrected it the stream is fine

west tiger
#

I hearby attempt to dub the shitpost thumbnails in the style of Thor doing MS paint: "Thornails"

strange owl
#

Maybe I'll just let the streams be on mute for a few days...

shy tangle
thorny kelp
#

i mean, not dead but some images are definitively not responding at first attempt because of the hug of death.

image.png
dawn ibex
flint quartz
#

i wonder if you can add images to the gameuidatabase yourself as some seem light on the info

thorny kelp
#

I imagine Thor says to the Rock: You rock (fingers pointtting at it)
And the rock says: You rock too! ( fingers pointing back at thor). that is why he has a pet rock on his desktop

dawn ibex
umbral onyx
#

I'm at work I can't tune in rn

covert monolith
#

still on about the Initiative/EU game thing

umbral onyx
#

y'all he posted a video about it didn't he??? Chat y'all gotta let go of it I prefer the days when we spent the whole day sending Thor computer mice lolol

covert monolith
#

yarrLUL unfortunately for us that are sick of it, he likes to debate and teach, so when people bring it up he launches right back into it

umbral onyx
#

I heard him earlier tell folks to just watch the video he posted and he was done talking about it 😅 he even released it early but I guess folks don't know how to let it go. Hopefully they get it out of their systems soon

#

That is something I appreciate about Thor though, the fact that he will explain stuff for folks who weren't there when he originally explained it

earnest mirage
#

not mine, found it in steets memes

frenesh.png
sacred junco
#

Thor is down for a talk with Louis rossmann?

summer night
#

yup sounds it

umbral onyx
#

Probably bc chat won't stop telling him he "needs" to until he does (in my opinion at least)

summer night
#

both communties are the same

subtle berry
umbral onyx
subtle berry
#

Somebody gotta paste a Thorface into that Palantir

earnest mirage
#

erm, Intel offering a 3 year warranty. 13900k was released about 2 years ago. In addition Intel extended their warranty for 13/14 gen by 2 years.
He should definitely open an RMA after moving to the new house.

#

🟥

west tiger
jolly sky
#

@reef thistle For some reason I remembered this from the aether of the rest of the day, but it's about to be MYM time

summer night
reef thistle
reef thistle
sacred junco
jolly sky
sacred junco
earnest mirage
stiff valley
#

Is there someone in the community that could possibly help me with my resume? I am looking to switch jobs but find it hard to get any call backs on applications. I have been with the same company for 18 years now and do not have a degree. I have been accepted into a BS degree program, but would like to find something before I complete my BS.

sacred junco
flint quartz
sacred junco
#

and not rma able?

#

No, he just said that its too old for rma

#

which is not true anymore

wintry pond
#

sometimes when I scroll, it stays frozen on the last stream, so I have to scroll passed and then back up again to even see whatever it is.

fresh ginkgo
#

WEAPONIZED AFFECTION

zealous frost
#

I just watched the new video and my biggest takeaway is that Thor agrees with the principle and it, but in it's current form it's toxic

flint quartz
zealous frost
#

A better example of the principle would be when the GTA 5 servers are finally killed, the single player campaign should still be accessible

fresh ginkgo
#

New random thought input poll for the chat, derived from what Thor just said.

What is your example of a game that you agree is objectively terrible yet you utterly adore it and play it a ton anyways

sacred junco
#

shit that's hard

#

most of the time a game feels terrible for me is because I play it with the wrong input method

sacred junco
fresh ginkgo
#

For me, I'd probably say it's this:

#

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1240590/Sir_Whoopass_Immortal_Death/

Steam
Sir Whoopass™: Immortal Death

Many are the tales of heroism and grandeur, of saving the princess and being rewarded her hand and half the kingdom in marriage.This is not one of them.You are Sir Whoopass, a valiant knight with a heart of gold!…and also the accidental architect of absolute anarchy and chaos in a once-perfect world.Through a series of poor life choices you mana...

Price

$16.99

Recommendations

871

▶ Play video
#

Now granted, it is terrible by design

#

But still

#

It is just so dumb in the best of ways

reef thistle
#

Damn, that hit me like a truck.

fresh ginkgo
#

?

sacred junco
reef thistle
fresh ginkgo
#

Oh

fringe lily
#

curious, wy does thor stream past midnight (us time)

fresh ginkgo
#

Wrong

#

He starts at midnight

#

And streams for 12 hours

#

As he has stated numerous times

strange owl
#

And he does it to cover both US and EU crowds and to ride the wave from US peak into EU start.

sacred junco
#

he covers the asian crowds too, as evident from the sumo ward

#

Mr. Worldwide

strange owl
#

Yeah, they should be getting the late bit, and then the early bit in reverse order

earnest mirage
sacred junco
earnest mirage
#

but he can't be out of range, because the cpu came out in Q4 22 and intel grant you 3 years ( now extended 5yrs just for 13/14 gen)

sacred junco
woeful geyser
#

yeah intel said to "just keep trying" regarding the RMA which.. points to some severe communication issues internally for their RMAs

storm lintel
#

Has he mentioned about streaming tomorrow or are we into Defcon time after today?

fringe lily
fresh ginkgo
#

Fsir

fringe lily
fresh ginkgo
#

I go back to my hecked up sleep schedule now

earnest mirage
#

Thor fixed my schedule. In Germany (GMT+2) he streams from 9am to 9pm

violet kelp
#

midnight pacific time is 8am in the uk and 9am in western europe

livid path
#

Animal well is PEAK

#

It’s above peak in fact, it’s SPACE

strange owl
#

yeah, I meant the other way around

earnest mirage
livid path
#

Devs: now we don’t think anyone will ever find this secret but thank you!
Thor a week after launch: 👋😃

loud snow
flint sinew
earnest mirage
# flint sinew cursed

that's just mildly cursed. I tried to make thora bunny.
To blend in thor's face i need to remove the original eyes and mouth....
This looks so horrifying i stopped making it.

SPOILER_bunny.png
flint sinew
earnest mirage
#

why did you click it!

little socket
zealous bridge
#

Hey, anyone know if Thor covered his thoughts on the Bungie layoffs?

strange owl
#

He did in the podcast

#

I think the vod is available at itmejp

buoyant arrow
#

There ya go

jovial vessel
rocky stream
#

how do I get the heartbound steam key? I just redeemed the points

sacred junco
#

so be patient

drowsy vector
#

As a long time player of Phantasy Star Online 2, we cannot get the original experience back but its ok.
It had its lifetime and grew because of 2020, now that PSO2: New Genesis is the new game, we have a new experience.
I know and understand that both PSO2 and PSO2:NGS will never get back to its peak but that's because the pandemic settled down.
Thank you, Thor.

lime laurel
#

I do still think Thor is missing one of the main points of single player games being preserved.

#

For instance, 99% of the Forza Motorsports series is now lost media outside of physical copies because of expiring licenses.

#

This happens with music licenses, car licenses, etc

#

Games like the older Guitar Hero games can no longer be purchased, with no current legal means of playing them due to this fact.

soft timber
#

Louis Rossman is not Ross Scott, c'mon man! lmao

strange owl
#

What about RubberRoss, is he any of them?

unique lance
#

He's over there, making mario levels

strange owl
#

Maybe we could convince him to do MyM levels

serene valley
little socket
#

Hehehehehehe

glad totem
#

the best thing of this it the possibility of thor talking to rossman, this would be a great crossover conversation

little socket
#

^

summer night
#

100% agree

#

been following Rossman for years, gave me the confidence to fix apple products. rossman and thor are very similar so i would love to hear it

sacred junco
#

we are sliding down the same hole don't we

glad totem
#

next week the internet will get mad at other things and we will move on

summer night
lunar basin
#

still mad respect for Thor not getting heated at saying the same thing over and over again, I do truly like him not being a gatekeeper with all of this

fiery wolf
#

once i heard thor say "we're dealing with government here" i fully understood where he is coming from about this

i don't think a discussion between ross and thor would actually be productive

sacred junco
summer night
#

i think outside of the stream his screaming

fiery wolf
#

unfortunately stop killing games is operating on extremely bad faith and the movement itself doesn't really understand what it's fighting for

lunar basin
summer night
lunar basin
#

Also the big thing I've been thinking about this topic is all on the "feeling / feelings" of nostalgia, it feels like the drug between the for and against here and how deadly of a substance it can be for players wanting to keep those feelings alive

glad totem
summer night
lunar basin
sacred junco
#

that guy on chat is an idiot

#

cant they just not screaming

summer night
#

there you go that was a little heated

brittle crow
lunar basin
#

Instant gratification minded people are losing hard here by not thinking in the short, long, now timeline

glad totem
#

people have forgotten how to argue about things in a respectful matter, things aren't black and white, there are nuances, and for things to go in a good direction, various opinions need to exist, we can't be a hive mind

summer night
#

^

lunar basin
#

Yeah, hive minds don't work too well on human subjects

summer night
#

if i want a hive mind ill be a borg

sacred junco
#

like the underlying motive is a good thing
the way they go about it, even if this is just for a calling for action for lawmakers to look at the thing, is not good

glad totem
#

if I want a hive mind, I get a farm, get into bee keeping, and become the queen bee keeper

summer night
jolly sky
# sacred junco that guy on chat is an idiot

"The whole valve team thinks you're stupid for not understanding this" was one of the statements. I highly doubt he works for Valve or know anyone that does. Fascinating behaviour Goblins

sacred junco
serene valley
#

lol if they can back that up with a source I'll believe it

sacred junco
#

the ones who are in position are the quiet ones

little socket
summer night
jolly sky
serene valley
#

lol I DON'T CARE WHAT THE SERVER SAYS I'M ALLOWED TO DO, I CAST FIREBALL!!

summer night
serene valley
summer night
summer night
serene valley
#

idk ask the server

summer night
#

but wouldnt asking the server also make the server cooldown more ITS A NEVER ENDING CYCLE

glad totem
#

sorry, but the server is now being restructured to be able to be passed to people to keep it living forever in their local server, try again later

lunar basin
#

kinda makes sense why Elden Ring has those online features, granted I know it's existed for many other FS games, but just dunking on cheaters bypassing normal gameplay vs learning movement, tactics, etc.

#

oh boy

jolly sky
#

You are being rate limited

sacred junco
#

damn we successfully steer the convo away from the volcano

naive spoke
#

thank goodness

sacred junco
#

until someone else steer it back

lunar basin
#

I may need literal popcorn now 😅

glad totem
#

can we steer it to ferrets?

summer night
#

i mean i think we can all agree we hate sony more

sacred junco
#

I like to steer towards the ferret too

lunar basin
#

absolutely

sacred junco
#

ferrets might actually be better driver than whoever being real nasty right now

summer night
wise root
#

Hey, is there a way to have a conversation with Mr. Software about his stance on the stop killing games stuff? I have some questions I feel aren't getting answered on stream and it seems very challenging to keep on topic in a room of a few thousand screaming people.

glad totem
naive spoke
#

I love those ferrets

summer night
lunar basin
wise root
wise root
serene valley
#

he talked about that on the stream earlier today

#

I wanna say around 4-5 hours in?

wise root
#

I was not on stream earlier today it's 8 AM sus

serene valley
#

watch it back

lime laurel
#

Thor is wrong on Tsushima, actually

glad totem
#

he talked about it, made a whole blackboard about it

lime laurel
#

The PSN account is JUST for Legends, the multiplayer mode

wise root
#

Do you have a timestamp I can reference?

lime laurel
#

You can do single player completely offline and disconnected from PSN

jolly sky
summer night
#

but you require it at start up dont you?

lime laurel
#

Nope

wise root
#

I'm on mobile it's really challenging to get precise scrubbing lol

serene valley
lime laurel
#

The PSN account linking is just for Legends.

lime laurel
sacred junco
lime laurel
#

But to say the game wholesale requires PSN is wrong information

wise root
#

Okay I think I found it.

lime laurel
#

I'm not defending sony blocking the game for sale

#

I'm saying that Thor was wrong on GoT needing PSN

sacred junco
#

but that game does not require PSN to play single

#

right

lime laurel
#

exactly

#

the psn account is required for the multiplayer mode

sacred junco
#

Does god of war require PSN to play?

#

yea he's wrong about that then 🤷‍♀️

lime laurel
#

GoW:R does need one, unfortunately, which is very dumb.

#

I agree.

#

But is not the point I am making here.

#

is sony still dumb? absolutely

sacred junco
#

no no, im just asking

#

I agree that thor is wrong about tsushima

glad totem
#

GoT he talked about being blocked to sale in other countries

sacred junco
#

yea, but got required a PSN to play single is not true, that specific detail is not true

brittle crow
#

Is SKG initiative solely focused on making single-player games that require online connection be made playable offline? Or is it also advocating for other things like allowing private servers?

wise root
# glad totem he talked about it, made a whole blackboard about it

I went back. The first thing he brings up is "how do they get back your data"

  • I don't think they would get back your data for you and I don't understand why this was brought up as a point in the first place. No private server I am aware of lets you import your character from the main wow servers. In the case of a player hosted server, the server host could just unlock the stuff players had before though so.. kind of a moot point imo.

The second point he mentioned was that running a private server makes them give up their intellectual property. I do not understand this - how does allowing a player to run a private server for a game that they purchased after the game is no longer functional giving up their IP?

The original rights holders still hold all the rights, yeah? Like I can host a Team Fortress 2 custom server but I don't own any of the associated intellectual property for that lol.

summer night
#

i think thor is doing a blank piece of all sony games so its understandable that something would get hit i mean Until Dawn requires psn as well. GoT unfortunatly i painted with the same brush as SONY

lime laurel
#

from what i remember of the original video, laggy

wise root
#

I'd love to have an actual conversation with him on this

#

I am not a popular human though so chances are low lol

lime laurel
#

the point is single player games that require online to play

serene valley
summer night
#

but your point is then dismissed due to God of war no?

lime laurel
#

the original example was The Crew by Ubisoft, which is a single player story based racing game that has an online mode where players appear in the world and can do races with them, but is otherwise a single player game

#

I would not call that a live service game

#

That is a single player game with multiplayer elements

wise root
# serene valley the server itself is IP

Explain that stance a bit further please

When you say "IP" that stands for "intellectual property" - just because they release a version for players to use does not mean that it changes the holder of that IP legally speaking

#

I understand the server code is their intellectual property but releasing that for public use doesn't change that

#

They still own the IP of the client half of the game too

serene valley
#

well if you're forcing them to provide the source, that's giving up IP

strange owl
#

Seems I will be forced to skip chat as well.

serene valley
#

if you're forcing them to make a binary to run in the architecture, that architecture is also IP

#

afaik

lunar basin
#

speak of the devil

wise root
#

What are they giving up exactly in this case lol

summer night
#

but it can if the server coding is changed and something untoward happens it wont be the server owner attacked first is would be the owners of the IP

brittle crow
wise root
#

Not IP address

summer night
#

im talking about intellectual property

lime laurel
glad totem
lime laurel
#

And then there's the grey area of companies calling games "with multiplayer elements" as live service games, I.E. Ubisoft

summer night
#

its why WOW private servers are illegal because it cant be maintained

#

and could damage the IP

wise root
lime laurel
#

now see, me personally, I'm full sale a fan of private servers

wise root
#

Server code being available doesn't make a difference in that does it lol

lime laurel
#

It's revived games that would otherwise be dead and lost media

#

Original FFXIV, Shin Megami Tensei Imagine (the SMT mmo), etc

#

Hell, I actually learned a bit of coding and server hosting to run my own personal server for FFXIV 1.0

sacred junco
wise root
glad totem
lime laurel
wise root
#

Those things aren't gone

lime laurel
#

By all means, The Crew is a single player game

#

Crew 2 less so, but the topic is the original

summer night
#

but wasnt the crew sold as a online only?

brittle crow
#

There are some devs that share information with the community that allows them to run private servers. Battlebit is an example of this. From my understanding, if the devs stop hosting servers, other people still can. But when you think about the state of the game when it reaches the point of devs no longer supporting it, the game will be unplayable since the playerbase will be gone.

lime laurel
#

But people in the hundreds of thousands still play them

wise root
# summer night but wasnt the crew sold as a online only?

Yes

But even though they said that and regardless of how true it is I think that if they're going to kill the game they should provide the means for people to host their own servers (even in reduced capacity) with the final update of that game.

Idk if you play any old server reliant games - I play one and it sucked when the server died, but thankfully community modders were able to revive it in a limited capacity

lime laurel
#

now as a legitimate point of complaint on thor here, holding up asmongold as a voice of reason feels incredibly disengenuis given how often he ends up being transphobic

#

seeing asmongold as a "good guy" feels hella wrong

summer night
#

he doesnt see him as a good guy

wise root
#

don't care to talk about asmongold would prefer to remain on topic to why private servers would or would not work in this context

sharp schooner
summer night
#

he sees him as a Avg gamer

glad totem
lime laurel
summer night
#

like me personal dont care for him

wise root
#

We should try to prevent that from happening lol

sharp schooner
summer night
#

but i understand looking for differnet view points like his unfortunatly is needed

brittle crow
lime laurel
#

agreeing with Those Types Of People in regards to the new Fable game, calling the protag of it "a man" being a big one

glad totem
sharp schooner
#

not defending here, just legitimately wanting to know

wise root
#

This is the kind of attitude I love

lime laurel
summer night
#

Orignal Ark not remastered

glad totem
#

thanks for sharing, love to see how people are able to apply this kind of change

brittle crow
#

Good on you and I'm sure your players will be happy to know they can play their game forever.

summer night
#

i have ran private servers for years and i know the pain involved in it i ran a WOW server and got hit will a stop it now

#

thats wrong

sacred junco
# summer night but wasnt the crew sold as a online only?

it falls into the example of online - only for the sake of online only while the game plays out more or less as a single player. and thor's stance is that the movement should call out specifically those behaviors, instead of what's currently on the ECI site using the broad "videogames" term.
He wants the movement to be specific from the get go, right from this initiative.

#

I think there's a portion of him being used to how the US law system operates which contribute to his fear of EU lawmakers will work on the basis that "videogames", any "videogame" should be left at a functional state once the publisher/dev decide to sunset the game. If this is what the law will be, future MMO games would require more resources set aside to document, curate that functional state, and this might become a barrier for indie studios who wants to make an indie MMO but might not have the resources to do such thing. Then you left with only big studio/corpo MMO games. That's my read of what thor afraid of.

I have been told that EU lawmakers will only look at the proposed motive of the initiative if this gather enough signature, then decide to work the specific out, but personally I would side with thor and I think a specific initiative won't hurt anyone

summer night
#

but the wording dont say that

sharp schooner
# lime laurel except those are the same talking points of every transphobic person online, how...

Oh sure, that happens, but is that what he's doing? I'm fairly certain that at all points of discussion, he's been pretty supportive of the lgbtq+ community, including trans people. I feel it's more likely that he, as a voice for the average player, is just being critical of what he perceives to be a stupid and pointless change in the industry that no one asked for. Sure, you can look at it in a way that's transphobic because saying a female character looks "Like a dude" is something hardcore transphobes use as an insult. But I think it's a lot more likely that he's just saying the character just looks ugly.

solid mirage
summer night
#

and there is the magic words if all partys sat down i think we would have something we could all support

glad totem
#

true

sharp schooner
summer night
#

im currently having to deal with the BS in the UK (not going to get into it) but its the same POOP THROWING Everytime

glad totem
#

HA the irony of a pirate making things acessible for prevent piracy, love this

summer night
#

Sit down Talk about it
"No YoUr WrOnG"

#

Havent got the Time
Havent got the Energy
Havent got the Crayons

glad totem
summer night
#

and no no-one in here today has been that bad

#

but FML

sacred junco
# summer night but the wording dont say that

yea.
This is my take, I would like single player games, games that offers you a single player experience, to not be tied with a server that will kill the game when the server went down. That's what the motive of the initiative, that's what I agree with the initiative.

But with the current wording submitted by the movement to the ECI, I would like a more specific wording on that issue at hand, even if how this work in europe is that lawmakers started to look into and work out the specific after it gets through the signature round. I agree with Thor's demand of the initiative needs of specifying about single player game that has no element of multiplayer's lifespan being tied to an online server.

summer night
sacred junco
#

as we can see, with the current wording of "videogames", the mess of "what are we fighting for exactly" is completely up in the air for each person to choose

sacred junco
summer night
#

Consumer and Dev. Louis has been fighting this kind of thing for years with right to repair

#

his the best for the middle ground

glad totem
#

he is

summer night
#

cant have streamers involved because its like pooping on your doorstep

potent dust
#

chat. is twitch down?

summer night
#

no

sacred junco
#

not for me

potent dust
#

okay its not just me

glad totem
#

but I also get if thor just moves from this

sacred junco
#

what happened

potent dust
glad totem
#

uffff

sacred junco
#

could be a local outage

summer night
#

ooooooooooof rip

potent dust
#

its nearly always a "local" outage

sacred junco
#

I'm in a different country and i still watch his stream fine

potent dust
#

internet services are distributed to load-servers across the globe

glad totem
#

i'm just listening the youtube stream

summer night
#

the servers are local tho

sacred junco
solid mirage
#

just went and checked, Twitch is working for me

flint quartz
sacred junco
summer night
#

can you see anyother streams?

sacred junco
#

me? yes

#

here's prime, im in vietnam btw

anh.png
summer night
potent dust
#

this works perfectly

image.png
summer night
#

okay thats strange then

sacred junco
#

yea that's weird

summer night
#

Wait

sacred junco
#

huh ok

flint quartz
summer night
#

thats not thor?

sacred junco
summer night
potent dust
#

:D

sacred junco
#

that reminds me of what youtube behaves sometimes on my machine

summer night
#

i was like ooooooooooooof
No wait a second

potent dust
#

works for me now.
that was real strange though

sacred junco
#

if i switch to a different video too fast, the comment section will stay on the previous video whereas the title and other stuff would be for the new video

potent dust
summer night
sacred junco
#

also, we actually steer off the active volcano that is SKU. somehow.

potent dust
#

UK

summer night
serene valley
potent dust
#

South, London

#

might be dropped traffic and I rolled a 6

summer night
#

that makes no sense maybe provider i know virgin likes to argue with twitch servers

sacred junco
potent dust
#

Virgin is super stupid when it comes to traffic :D

#

on virgin I used to have my internet drop like once a day for 5 minutes nearly exactly around 7PM.
rest of the day was great

summer night
#

I MEAN WHY THE FUDGE MAKE A WORD I CANT SPELL

#

dyslexia

serene valley
#

it's not even a word

#

it's an acronym

summer night
#

stupid bloodly word

serene valley
#

SKG ain't that hard to spell

#

lol

sacred junco
potent dust
#

reminds me of... dang what was that word...
hippomonstrosesquippedaliophobia

sacred junco
#

I should have slept from 11 but here I am

summer night
#

you can keep that one

#

all to yourself

#

was bullied for years because i misspelt Farm to Fram

covert monolith
#

sounds like you might have some hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia KEKW

potent dust
sacred junco
#

Why can't we have medical terms that are easy to understand like swiss cheese brain or something.

potent dust
#

but if you spell rcorrectly

#

you can't spell.
FWEND

naive spoke
#

Oh wow, its actually a real word

potent dust
#

its more of a compound of latin than a real word

summer night
#

because they like to F with the people they effect

buoyant arrow
#

It's the fear large words, no?

covert monolith
#

yeah its abt as ironic as calling dyslexia dyslexia, which is... hard to spell KEKW

solid mirage
potent dust
#

correct. its a the fear of long words

solid mirage
#

lol

potent dust
#

wait...

#

here's another word. aibohphobia
"fear of palindromes"

naive spoke
#

thats great

summer night
#

like Scopophobia what the hell kind of word is that

buoyant arrow
#

Always wondered what the need for all those complex greek and latin names for medical terms is. Is it a unified vocabulary across "common" languanges? So that say, a french doctor and an english or german doctor could communicate more easily?

summer night
#

👀

solid mirage
buoyant arrow
potent dust
#

yes, that, its cross-language terms that are also descriptive

buoyant arrow
#

Makes sense I guess. Doesn'T do much for laymen accessibility though.

summer night
sacred junco
#

Google gives me plausible explanations but I'm not sure about its accuracy

potent dust
#

once you know what the sub-words mean instead of guessing what "hyperkalemia" is you can just be like. oh. hyper-kalium-emia too much - potassium - pressence in blood

solid mirage
#

lol, there's one called "nomophobia" It's the fear of not having a working smart phone XD

summer night
buoyant arrow
buoyant arrow
potent dust
#

I hate hyper and hypo.
they're bad words to use because they're homophones. they need to be changed.

buoyant arrow
#

Inter=between/across and intra=inside/internal... right?

potent dust
#

kind of like the whole mess with miligram and micrograms. don't abbreviate them because 1 microgram of copper is cool. 1 miligram copper is deadly. (well not really but you get the idea)

summer night
#

can you guys break down Ailurophobia i know its the fear of cats but hows it broken down?

buoyant arrow
#

well milli is mg and micro is [can't find how to type the letter for micro]g

potent dust
#

I'm not familiar with that one

#

µgram.
enjoy copy pasting

#

you can just use the letter u most times. ugram µgram. basically the same

buoyant arrow
#

Yeah, my teachers in vocational school said the same thing. Use u for microgram, everyone will know what I mean by that

#

Because the default range for common usage in capacitors is microfarrad. A capacitor rated 1 farrad is huge (in terms of IT electronics)

potent dust
#

some units of measurement is so silly sometimes

#

like pascals is basically useless its such a tiny measurement

astral shuttle
#

Nibbles, bits, bytes

buoyant arrow
#

Nibbles will never not be funny to me

potent dust
#

some computers have 6 bit bytes :/

buoyant arrow
#

The Ur IT nerds had a sense of humor.

potent dust
#

they do indeed

#

the computer bug is a fun one

buoyant arrow
#

Remember InstallWizards? Before those you had manually install all the files of a program. Then they made a program that did it for you. It was like magic. So they were called InstallWizards.

#

Was the first bug and actual bug that died on a coil?

potent dust
#

yep

#

to debug the program they had to...
remove... an actual moth

astral shuttle
#

Sounds fair

sacred junco
#

Bruh KEKW

potent dust
astral shuttle
#

Imagine calling it decat these days, what with cats inside cases

buoyant arrow
#

I once had an internship in the IT department of my local powerplant, and the guy who ran the serverroms had some antiques. He took out this roughly footlong on the side cube that inside had like hundreds and hundred of thin copper wires strung in complex matrices.

potent dust
#

unfortunately those don't really cause computer problems that much

#

but you know what does?
🎶 cosmic raaaaaaaaaays 🎶

buoyant arrow
#

It was a very old RAM. It was like, 24kb

potent dust
#

reminds me of the comparison of the apollo flight computer and a modern smart phone.
the phone turns out is 100 million times faster

buoyant arrow
#

A cube I needed two hands to hold was a 24kb ram. At home had a small ram stick that was literal magnitudes more memory in a fraction of the physical size.

fast birch
#

Just joined hello everyone on the stream!

potent dust
#

o/

#

we now have 1TB micro SD cards... and like.
I can't even fathom how you get something that small

buoyant arrow
#

I'll never forget how nuts that it. Computer tech is one of the fasted advancing things we every made. It fascinates me.

#

Hello!

potent dust
#

and also 20 years ago we were joking about "computer, enhance" and how that was silly and would never happen. and well...
it happened...

buoyant arrow
potent dust
#

yep. and they're still making it smaller anyway

#

because if you're smart enough you can work with the charge leak/quantum tunneling and make it a feature

#

didn't they make a single atom transistor or am I high?
or 60 really but whatever

buoyant arrow
#

I remember hearing something about that

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-atom_transistor yup

Single-atom transistor

A single-atom transistor is a device that can open and close an electrical circuit by the controlled and reversible repositioning of one single atom. The single-atom transistor was invented and first demonstrated in 2002 by Dr. Fangqing Xie in Prof. Thomas Schimmel's Group at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (former University of Karlsruhe)...

#

WIkipedia really not the best source, but hey

flint quartz
stiff valley
#

Am I the only one that when he raids someone my stream just says it has ended and kicks me out?

potent dust
#

ridiculous.

#

twitch is a bit buggy so I'd just assume its a bug

buoyant arrow
#

I think you have to opt in to a raid

#

Or at least there used to be a setting you could set so you don't auto join raids

forest glacier
#

Interesting that the raid system is a part of chat, so when you have chat hidden it doesnt include you in the raid, this is a PC problem btw.

stiff valley
#

It happens when i watch it on my apple tv. so chat isnt open by default

summer night
#

ahhhh it could be something that isnt supported

potent dust
forest glacier
# potent dust thats extremely weird but kind of not surprising

Yea I switched over to using Chatterino a couple days ago and Im discovering all the things about Twitch interface like this. I click the gear icon on Twitch chat and choose Hide Chat and I resize Chatterino to fill that part of the screen. Never raided after install, I just unhid chat for the first time and raid worked fine.

forest glacier
#

My Twitch experience 😄

image.png
#

all the yellows are first time chatters, its wild how many there are on a daily basis

summer night
#

you know from years of the internet i went to the Tab first

#

didnt see the yellow

forest glacier
summer night
#

the Tabs at the top of the page

forest glacier
summer night
#

people hiding messages its muscle memory

#

isnt Chatterino ottos?

forest glacier
summer night
#

otto is ludwigs dev

#

think Ludwig asked him to make it if i remember correctly

forest glacier
summer night
#

dont think so

heavy vale
summer night
#

but i remember something about it because yourtube chat sucks

forest glacier
forest glacier
summer night
#

then what chat am i thinking of

forest glacier
summer night
#

meh never mind is it any good?

#

by the looks of it. it stores every chat which tbh is a nice

forest glacier
#

I keep it open 24/7 so its always full and its never taking more than 250MB or RAM, which was the primary reason for downloading it. Its really nice if you want to superuser your Twitch chat, you can filter messages into other tabs and you can color messages by any criteria you want, get notifications for any criteria you want, see banned messages...

summer night
#

i mean 5000 is better than current

summer night
forest glacier
summer night
#

seems like it give you a slight mod view

forest glacier
summer night
#

interesting ill have a look into that thanks for the input 🙂

forest glacier
#

the only reasons non-moderators would want to log that to file is creepy reasons but its possible

summer night
#

i mean its information at the end of the day

#

build a profile on someone in chat

#

then boom ads

#

have to deal with it in my line of work all the time

#

not the ads part build breaking the building

forest glacier
summer night
#

yup

#

100%

#

anti Fraud field day that kind of stuff

forest glacier
summer night
#

cheers dude 🙂

golden rapids
serene valley
#

the guy has a point but also should've been nicer about it

hollow kite
#

Uh, wouldn't a binary be in the release section if it has a compiled version? I don't see how he has a point, not every project on github has a nice binary for you to install.

#

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of GH as a developer's website. If you want to use the software that bad, either learn to compile it yourself, ask nicely for someone to do it for you or, failing that... Just wait.

serene valley
#

to be clear the guy in the reddit post and the guy who made this repo are seperate people

hollow kite
#

I understand that.

serene valley
#

and yes to some degree the reddit poster has a point, sure github is more of developer social media, but some devs also use it as the sole source of their projects

#

and sometimes they don't provide binaries directly and expect people to compile it themselves

#

which is not ideal

#

to some degree, yes that is really annoying

woeful geyser
#

depends on the audience it's intended for and its use cases, really CB_pika_think

serene valley
#

I've wanted to try out zed (that new IDE) but I run windows and it's not windows focused (tho can be compiled for it), and idk how to compile allat

#

so I haven't tried it

woeful geyser
#

i thought you can't compile Zed for windows yet, huh, is it at that stage already?

serene valley
#

at least, I think it was called zed

hollow kite
#

Concerning the actual project. It's a tool to track down social media via username. It's a CLI tool.

serene valley
#

maybe I am misremembering something

#

but whether it actually runs on windows is besides the point

#

and aside from all that, this is a pretty cool project

#

turning a docker image into a single executable

hollow kite
#

Its not THAT difficult looking at the guide. If you were really looking to try it.

#

Its not native to windows though. Need the use of MSYS2.

woeful geyser
#

people not uploading binaries to their repo can also just be because of limitations with github actions or other build automations

#

looking at that .md I can kinda see how setting up automation for that would be a pain

hollow kite
#

TBH, I don't think the reddit op would understand how to use Shelock. Given the tone of the post, I'm pretty sure they were looking for a quick way to snoop on someone through the use of that tool

#

I'm just being cynical, though.

golden rapids
golden rapids
serene valley
#

that combined with people misappropriating my work into cheats (rather than equal playing ground mods) made me private a bunch of repos

serene valley
golden rapids
golden rapids
serene valley
#

oh

#

nice

golden rapids
#

and wayland I think

serene valley
#

as well as automatically packaging them for installs

#

the mods are for the oculus quest and we package some metadata n stuff into a zip file for that

golden rapids
#

but aren't you offering "a binary" at that point then?

serene valley
#

so automatically doing all that makes builds reproducible and less annoying to do

serene valley
#

nor a way for people to say " I Fixed it " when all they did was download the artifact

golden rapids
flint sinew
serene valley
#

magic angery

#

or just reading

golden rapids
#

Except maybe if they think the lack of a download link is a bug and discovering it is fixing it? But I don't know.

serene valley
#

anwyay it was my code to do with as I wanted and I single handedly basically killed the quest modding community for that game

#

because the people claiming to have "fixed things" didn't actually have the knowledge to "fix things"

serene valley
#

and also someone turned some stuff into cheats, and that was just the straw that broke the camels back

#

that person apologized like 4 times to me about it but I'm also slightly petty

golden rapids
serene valley
#

yeah so what I don't like about DMCAs is that you have to put your real name on em

#

which I was (and still am) not comfortable with

golden rapids
serene valley
#

eh, taking away everything was the choice I went with ¯_(ツ)_/¯

golden rapids
#

Scorched earth wouldn't be my first choice however I can see the appeal of it :p

serene valley
#

it happened over about 3 days to a week or so, it wasn't just "oh you share my stuff and take credit" BAM

golden rapids
#

yea, I probably still would have (tried to) DMCA first. Just to make their lives miserable...

serene valley
#

nowadays the PC version is just filled with cheats so it's not like I regret yeeting all that stuff

golden rapids
#

However that said most of my stuff is GPL or MIT, so that wouldn't apply to that many things and cases though.

serene valley
#

not to mention even if they had the original code (if they searched hard enough they could've found it I bet) they haven't even be able to do the base things that are required to even kick off things in all this time

#

this is now like 3 years ago

golden rapids
#

This is the project of mine that I talked about before btw: <removed link>
It is quite small and should be self explanatory to everyone ever so slightly familiar with software development. However until today there have been multiple people that tried to reach out to me over sometimes quite obscure channels asking how to use it...

#

It's a script to generate config files and a patch for aria2...

serene valley
#

if I saw this repo

#

I'd probably run the ps1 file there

#

I would say though your readme could be just as simple as giving the instruction to run that file

golden rapids
#

Then you're already way further than anyone of the people that contacted me because of it. However you'd still have to compile a patched version of aria2. The ps1 only generates the config files and a startup script. It doesn't compile aria2.

#

That was within the reddit thread though...

#

As well as why aria2 has to be pathed (they for some reason don't accept these changes upstream...)

#

To be fair, it would work with the regular aria2 version but performance would be massively impacted...

#

but revisiting that repo I probly should have put the text from the reddit post into the readme too...

minor nymph
#

Pinned a comment on the latest vid.
People are getting absurd as hell in there.
Give it a read if you get a chance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSvLqB46Y

YouTube
Pirate Software
Stop Killing Games

Here is an easy breakdown of how I feel about this initiative.
I cannot and will not support a vague and potentially dangerous start to this conversation.
Call out the specific business practices that need to be resolved, not just games in general.

Watch the stream here:
https://piratesoftware.live

Join the community here:
https://discord.gg/...

▶ Play video
rain flax
#

It's actually kinda crazy how many people are so quick to discount your opinion as a gamedev. Really stupid us vs them mentally I think

pallid sleet
minor nymph
pallid sleet
#

i can try to find it but was a week ago when someone asked about the stop killing games, but i will try to find it

umbral onyx
umbral onyx
pallid sleet
#

wasn't a TTS i asked in chat

pallid sleet
#

i liked the part that Thor says what if people try to down servers from live service games to run it themselves

minor nymph
#

Wrote a response for Asmongold on his video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVsyhjcndw

YouTube
Asmongold TV
The Problem with "Stop Killing Games"

by @PirateSoftware https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSvLqB46Y
► Asmongold's Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/zackrawrr
► Asmongold's Twitter: https://twitter.com/asmongold
► Asmongold's Sub-Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Asmongold
► Asmongold's 2nd YT Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ZackRawrr

Channel Editors: CatDany & Daily Dose of Asmon...

▶ Play video
pallid sleet
#

trying to make the clip found the response on 10:17:10 on the vod

minor nymph
#

He's completely correct about why I feel the way I do but I disagree with him on private servers being allowable for anyone once the studio shuts down.

I think the only thing I would want to debate out is allowing people to run private servers after end of life of the game.
The rest of what you've said I entirely agree with and your take on what I said is correct.

Some questions about that scenario:
Who would be the party that enforces non-monetization of that server?
If it's the government I feel like we're making an insane amount of red tape.
If it's the original company then this doesn't work if they shut down.

Who is going to pay for the hosting if the servers cannot be monetized?
If they cannot be monetized then these servers will also eventually shut down due to cost.
We don't up preserving games like this we just shift their death down the road.

This also leads to a really weird attack potential if people can monetize the servers.
1. You make an awesome game that has a small community.
2. I want to monetize that game and run my own servers.
3. I create a shitload of bots and constant exploits to erode the game and your business.
4. Your business closes and now I can monetize your work without anyone stopping me.
This isn't unlikely as we've seen mass attacks such as with TF2.

We actually see echoes of this in the mobile market already as well.
The only defense right now is DMCA or other takedown measures.
Devs legitimately have very little protections as-is and this would erode that further.

The reason why I am so intent on language is because I have had an entire career dealing with tactics like these in the industry.
I'm very well acquainted with how bad actors abuse studios through cheats, bots, or IP theft to in the pursuit of money.
It's why I'm so cautious on this and why it matters to me how this is approached.
pallid sleet
runic aurora
#

Your responses in both videos are very well said and clear, I don't know why so many people are getting so hateful over this

minor nymph
runic aurora
#

Based tbh lol

raven egret
#

I'm not a regular at all (I mostly watch your clips on yt lol), but I really can't believe how a community can turn around so fast into being aggressive and even sending death threats, whether or not they agree with what has been said. So sorry for how it must be feeling for you.

pallid sleet
hollow notch
#

I keep saying on Reddit that the whole Stop Killing Games question ultimately boils down to money. Are consumers will to pay the dev time to make a game single player or the bandwidth cost for hosting a server Battlefield style? I keep getting down voted.

What is really 'interesting' to me is that if the EU pass a law like this then it isnt just the Good games that get saved, but all the trashy ones too, because the law cant discriminate. Yay, for 'E.T. the game' also being forced to be saved.

hazy tendon
#

Reddit
I keep getting down voted
well there you go. I say, don't even try to have a serious discussion there.

river charm
#

backtracking to the good old days of when games used gamespy

hollow notch
slow island
# minor nymph He's completely correct about why I feel the way I do but I disagree with him on...

I feel like it should work the way patents do, once the time is up the material/code should just become open source. Anyone can host a private server or mod a game to become a purely offline experience. When the final server gets shutdown for say League of Legends (should it ever die someday). Unless the company plans to revamp the code and make League of legends 2.0, the server-side code should just be made open source and allow people to host their own private servers - if the game or code is deemed unworthy to profit from. Similar to how the original Dota was made in Warcraft 3.

worn relic
# minor nymph Happens when you go against the grain in a mob movement. I do it a lot because I...

I call that "getting Asmongold'd". It's when you make a level-headed argument, or take a level-headed position, that is antithetical to the majority of the opinion at the time, and for not agreeing with the majority opinion you will be attacked on the Internet with name-calling on Twitter about how dumb you are for being wrong, only for you to be proven right in a matter of time.
Examples ranging from:
"Horse armor DLC bad"
"Artist's opinion doesn't matter"
"This game is gonna suck"

hollow notch
high blaze
slow island
high blaze
#

People are quick to mob mentality against anyone that goes against the grain, attacking the individual over their actual points, facts and debate- online it's just...that much worse.

raven egret
worn relic
#

Though I personally think the reason the response to Thor was so vitriolic was, frankly, a misunderstanding of Thor himself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Thor is very specific with how the community should address itself when speaking to QOL changes on Twitch, right? That's because Thor understands a rational speaker can start a conversation. I feel Thor had the same mentality for this initiative as he does when asking for changes on Twitch.

high blaze
minor nymph
high blaze
#

the mickey mouse/steamboat willie trademark loophole PepeHands

worn relic
pine jacinth
#

Slightly unrelated to the current conversation, but each time "private server" is mentioned I basically remember the private servers of Club Penguin 😭
Never played it, but heard terrible things from it.

sacred junco
# minor nymph Happens when you go against the grain in a mob movement. I do it a lot because I...

I agree with your sentiment that the initiative wording needs to be more precise and I understand the reason you want it more precise to set the tone right for the conversation with lawmakers later on if this goes through. The FAQ on thie site does answer all the concern that you pointed out (wheter you agree with all of them or not is a different story), yet what's being put forward to go through the petition stage uses a very umbrella term. I feel like a lot of people only read what's on the SKG website, find the answers in the FAQ satisfied their own concerns about the initiative, then go to the ECI page to sign the petition and don't take a look at the initiative on the ECI site itself. And now when you point out the difference they think you are being defensive and corpo shill or whatever.
I hope more people do their due diligence reading the fine print when it comes to this stuff, and I wish this whole debacle ends with the compromise it desperately needed.

dusk sluice
#

Getting sick and tired of this topic by now. Feel like this will be going on for weeks whit no end till some one in EU will look it up sees how much politics will loose money and say "not going to happen in anyway"

hollow notch
worn relic
high blaze
# dusk sluice Getting sick and tired of this topic by now. Feel like this will be going on for...

The internet passes through drama and drama. Unless something surges that causes a relapse, people online, especially in places like twitter etc will hop onto the next 'big thing to push hate upon others on' - the amount of people that genuinely care enough to push forward the initiative and stuff are miniscule compared to those hopping on the train - and they'll hop right off at the next station. Time might be a help, - it'll leave those genuinely invested in the matter, rather than those just joining in to spread things that contribute nothing.

worn relic
#

It's also why they're comfortable saying that if they never make a live-service game again, that's a good thing.

high blaze
#

People online like to make large statements that they won't really agree with in a months time. It's...eh. It happens. The initiative is a neat thing, and naive parts of me would think that regardless of the vague nature of the initiative, it'll do good, to bring attention to European lawmakers and they'll appropriately consult the people involved- both the consumers and the producers/publishers/developers/etc to find a good outcome. But I dunno the European...law climate or whatnot enough to gauge whether or not that's a good wager to have, though. It might not be.

brittle crow
hollow notch
#

Games with a ToS have an end clause in them. If people dont like the fact that their game has an end clause, then dont agree to the ToS and return the game for a full refund. If the gaming community agrees with that sentiment then the game companies will conform to market pressure. This is highly unlikely to occur though, because the vocal minority is just that.

slow island
#

I think that's why a patent style system would just be a good middle ground to protect the rights of Companies and Game Developers and the rights of the consumer. A lot of companies through either monetisation methods or contracts are trying to reduce the rights and ownerships of consumers. I agree with Thor's take on the EU issue, it is vague and it looks like a can of worms. A very general idea I think would work is; If a company makes game 1.0 and wants to keep the IP (intellectual property) to make game 2.0 that's fine, put a hard cap of 20 years on the first game's IP within which there is plenty of time to make a profit and they have a legal basis to protect their IP from pirates over that time. Should the whole series be scrapped and the company cannot decide when to release the IP, 20 years max from the last patch. Should companies try to skirt this by endless patching as Thor may suggest... well. I will continue this shower thought into the evening 😄

dusk sluice
#

Don't give that much hope for EU lawmakers. They will only look it up and consider doing something whit it if they see potential to get money or politics out of it. There's most likely more people who will loose whit this then gain. Worst that can happen is they will add there own rules and regulation to gaming, development and publishing. Trust me they will find a way to do so if they want it. But that's just my view as I'm not big on EU or there politics.

calm locust
#

I think the entire point of SKG is indeed to kill off live service games; while this may sound bad, there hasn't been a satisfying argument as to why killing them of is a bad thing, and in the eyes of common gamers it mostly isn't. And the SKG initiative is not vague on this, they clearly state that they want there to be a way to play games you purchased even after support ends. The idea comes from the notion of allowing players to host their own private servers, adopting the same model as FPS games from the late 90s to late 2000s like Quake, TFC, TF2 and Counter Strike which allowed people to host community servers that are still active today.

high blaze
#

I think the issues overall from what I've seen thus far about the drama is that;

There's some dissent on whether the consumer should own the game or have a license for that game. As of current legal precedent...basically everywhere, most games of online nature, live service, etc (if not all?) sell licenses, as to pave way to the makers of the game being able to enforce action against cheaters and whatnot. It's possible that if people did own their games, some other method might be involved to prevent people from being able to just...cheat or whatnot with little recourse on the developers side. Ownership might demean the ability for developers to keep their game communities cheat-free or other matters that I'm not in the know enough to know of.

As Thor has stated or so, not that I claim to really be able to summarize their points eloquently, there's the matter of a lack in clear market 'advertising' - live service games are not required to state outright that you're buying a license, contrary, they word it in such a way that you'd feel it implies that you are buying a product. It's in a grey area between 'am I buying it, am I buying the license?' aka it's unclear to the consumer (when they're purchasing the license/product), which is very bad. - in addition there's no clear statement of when a service like that may end, sometimes there can't be.
I personally feel that I'm in agreement with the idea of end of service clauses, plans, etc, would be of clear benefit to the consumers. The issue is really in how these plans take place. I feel a good first step would be any possible claims of...game lifespan. A minimum of when the game may undergo serious consideration of shut-down or otherwise. But...I can't rationally find a way for most games to figure that out. Live services games are heavily reliant on community- a community that often doesn't exist when you're first starting the game servers up. There's no way to truly gauge lifespan like that.

high blaze
calm locust
#

Thor got a few facts wrong on The Crew because it clearly advertises itself as a single player game on its page. To my knowledge, The Crew's content is primarily single player and there isn't anything in it that justifies it being a live service game, especially since it does not advertise itself as such.

high blaze
# calm locust Thor got a few facts wrong on The Crew because it clearly advertises itself as a...

I've read some comments that say that dataminers even found a disabled offline mode for The Crew around (I have not verified this, so please understand it's just something I heard, not verified), but honestly The Crew ultimately just serves as an example, nitpicking the example won't...lead to anything. It's just people trying to undermine eachothers arguments rather than face the points of their arguments and debate them. Getting the facts right is always good but it's...- I feel its getting...weaponized? Like, y'know. 'Oh ho, they got these facts wrong, they're bad!' sorta...thing.

robust olive
#

So, on the end of service clauses. I think a big reason why game companies don't already do that, is because by informing the consumer that they are purchasing a license of the game, that has a shelf life, they fear that will drive down sales. Because the reality is, a large portion of the gaming audiance DO treat buying games as, well, buying a product. Not purchasing a license. And if laid out up front, I imagine many people would much rather save their money for something else instead of a "license" for some upcoming game.

calm locust
# high blaze I've read some comments that say that dataminers even found a disabled offline m...

It's fine for Thor to have gotten the facts wrong but where I feel he's really beginning to be kind of antagonistic is that he considers Ross Scott "not worth talking to" and won't let him elaboraite his points. So Thor is deliberately being wrong and not allowing a chance for him to be corrected. I agree that Thor's viewpoint is unique since he is a veteran gamedev but I think he should strongly consider whether or not he's engaging in a type of protagonist syndrome because of it, because that part is where I don't see eye to eye with him.

high blaze
# robust olive So, on the end of service clauses. I think a big reason why game companies don't...

That's why it's on the government to enforce it, not the game companies. Game companies aren't going to do something that might be ultimately necessary for consumer benefit, but drive their sales down. It's important to note the potential impact enforcing such things can have but some things like this aren't..- really debatable? People should get a clear picture of what they're spending their money on, as a solid line in the sand, I think.

hollow notch
#

Things become obsolete. Did you know that if you turned on an iPhone 1 right now that it couldnt connect to the cell network. The phone companies have discontinued the use of the 2G network. Thus, you couldnt actually make a call with an iPhone 1 even if you had one that worked.

But hey, no one is batting an eye over this obsolescence. And an iPhone 1 was a lot more expensive then a video game.

calm locust
high blaze
#

Things do become obselete, but that example is way out of wack, I feel. The 2G network was shut down because...there's literally no reason to have it? It's societial infrastructure, not...entertainment. The following G's are just plain better? Iirc 3g is getting shut down here in Australia pretty soon lol.

calm locust
#

That is physical obsolesence, that's not the same as manufactured obsolesence or a dev arbitrarily saying "you can't play past this date".

hollow notch
#

How is me saying "I paid for my iPhone 1 and I still want to use it 20 years later" different from "I paid for my video game 20 years ago and I still want to play it." Both had their infrastructure retired. With both you had time to get your use out of it

calm locust
#

Games don't really... always run on infrastructure?

#

Like my copy of Star Fox that I bought years ago still works.

#

When I bought the game I bought an indefinite license to play it.

high blaze
#

It's comparing physical infrastructure with impact on the basic function of society to...entertainment. The variables, the needs are totally different.

calm locust
#

If you buy a car, you don't own the manufacturing rights to the make of that car, but you still own your car. Its parts may degrade, but that's just natural. The car manufacturer isn't allowed to come up and destroy your car with a pipe bomb because its past its ten year warranty.

hollow notch
calm locust
#

I mean going to the example of late 90s to mid 2000s PC games, they were already using that model. You can find tons of community servers in Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike 1.6 and several other old games that are still active today.

#

The fact that we can't do this mostly comes from introducing online to console games, which is different from online on PC games since you have to connect to the console manufacturer's server and they don't allow private servers.

high blaze
# hollow notch Yes, it would cost money to recreate the infrastructure. It is cheaper to do s...

Video game servers are not cheap to run. Basic games, basic servers for 'basic' games can be run fairly inexpensive, but if you're talking things like MMOs, running them to the same level- or anywhere near the level of quality a proper server-farm etc can do so is...unrealistic. Most community games running on private servers are super outdated, they're outdated enough in basic terms that it's inexpensive to run the games on those servers.

minor nymph
hollow notch
# calm locust Yes they are.

So you would be willing to pay %20 more on every game you will ever now purchase to make sure it is single player? Even the bad games, because that is what this EU law will cause

hollow notch
minor nymph
#

It's not even really about MMO vs other kinds of live service games.
Nearly every mobile game is a live service game.

Something people don't realize is the Google App Store is where player data is stored for these games.
They cannot store and recall player information without that app store in a very large number of cases.
AKA without the store, they die, they are live service.

#

So when I'm talking about Live Service games that means ANY game that needs infrastructure outside of your personal device.

#

Which is a massive amount of the industry.

hollow notch
minor nymph
#

Beyond that those games cannot function without access to that data store.
AKA you need to rearchitect the game to use a local data store.

high blaze
#

The games would have to be redesigned to store player information locally, whi- yeah.

hollow notch
#

%20 extra cost is being generous

minor nymph
#

This is where the problem lies.
Having to divert resources in development to fit this needless end of life goal.
When games either won't need this or could use that money for better features elsewhere.

#

That's why it "kills" live service games.

#

Because why make a live service game and jump through so many hurdles like this.

#

No point.

#

Just make a single player offline game.

#

No more financial obligation as the game already fits the criteria.

#

Now we're in an environment that makes social games fall away

#

GG

#

But people focus on the FAQ and that this initiative doesn't directly attack live service.
They aren't looking at how games are actually developed lol

#

Not to mention this elephant in the room

# 
- Are you going to allow monetization of these servers or not?

If we don't allow monetization - Who would be the party that enforces non-monetization of that server?
If it's the government I feel like we're making an insane amount of red tape.
If it's the original company then this doesn't work if they shut down.

If we don't allow monetization - Who is going to pay for the hosting if the servers cannot be monetized?
If they cannot be monetized then these servers will also eventually shut down due to cost.
We don't up preserving games like this we just shift their death down the road.

If we do allow monetization - This leads to a really weird attack potential if people can monetize the servers.
- You make an awesome game that has a small community.
- I want to monetize that game and run my own servers.
- I create a shitload of bots and constant exploits to erode the game and your business.
- Your business closes and now I can monetize your work without anyone stopping me.
This isn't unlikely as we've seen mass attacks such as with TF2.
We actually see echoes of this in the mobile market already as well.
The only defense right now is DMCA or other takedown measures.
Devs legitimately have very little protections as-is and this would erode that further.
#

Since all of those live service games will need to be playable

#

And some will need player run servers to be so.

#

Enjoy tackling the hell that is this hurdle

high blaze
#

Sadly I think a lot of people are short-sighted in that they see killing off life service as a win, when many people have grown up in live service game communities. I think people forget what it means, or don't know what it encompasses, like I didn't know that the app store worked like that. People might not equate live service to places like FF14, to roblox, to the biggest MMOs of yesterdecade. They equate the genre term more to battle royales, the 'latest round of failures' etc, the branches that fell off, rather than the whole thriving tree. - let alone the more 'esoteric' examples like mobile apps.

minor nymph
#

Yep

#

I don't see this initiative turning into any kind of real legal change because of that section I posted there.
It's just demanding distribution rights while opening avenues of attack.

hollow notch
#

The biggest gaming market in terms of money per year, is the mobile market by a huge margin

minor nymph
#

Yep

high blaze
#

It's a wild fact yea, but hilariously true. It makes sense when you kind of realize that the investment into gaming on PC, console etc is just a lot higher. You already own a phone for basic life necessity though, anyway.

orchid abyss
# minor nymph Enjoy tackling the hell that is this hurdle

Honestly, I think this is why the holes that are in existing copyright and trademark laws exist, along with related laws. Jurisdictions are going to vary. The grey zone of abandonware and server emulators for games that have been closed hasn't been successfully tackled in court. At least not that I'm aware. I haven't followed it close enough

minor nymph
#

This is a -serious- flaw

#

And a dealbreaker for me.

reef thistle
#

Thor coming back on a Tuesday/Wednesday
The Universe is doing this to me on purpose, I'm sure of it.

dusk sluice
#

Whit all this i see no need or point to bring back or keep such games alive after 10 or 20 years. From my own life i use to play 1 Korean MMO what had 10000 players at it's peak time. It was shut down and was dead for 10+ year till old fans got it back up running after 3 years of building server. They never told how many players where was in the redone game but around 400 people. It never felt the same. So why would games what last 10 years and have maybe 100 to 300 players at end must be preserved and continue forever.

orchid abyss
hollow notch
reef thistle
#

I'm making a game that will have online capabilities, and I think I'll give players the ability to keep it going if/when I have to stop.

But that should always be the choice of the developers.

calm locust
#

I'm pretty sure SKG stipulates that if a game is to be sold as a live service it must be clearly advertised as such, which The Crew was not, it was advertised as a discrete single player game you owned once you bought it.

reef thistle
#

Like that was the entire draw of the game.

calm locust
#

It said "single player" on its store pages.

orchid abyss
hollow notch
#

City of Heroes is purely funded by donations now. And since it is, you can see the bill for the servers each month

reef thistle
glad flower
#

I think in this digital age people want everything to be indefinite, and not live with the fear that something might disappear eventually, when in reality that is just not possible

hollow notch
#

Wow, looking at the wiki entry for City of Heroes, the Fan Team didnt actually get a license to host the game until the start of this year. I thought they had gotten it sooner then that. Still the game was release in 2004, and the fans didnt officially get legal control until 20 years later.

calm locust
#

Upon release, The Crew received mixed reviews from critics who praised the game's world design but criticized the always-online aspect, which created technical glitches and other issues, the difficult-to-understand user interface, and the presence of microtransactions.

calm locust
# dusk sluice Whit all this i see no need or point to bring back or keep such games alive afte...

for no other reason than people want to? if you want to play a game you paid for 10/20 years ago you should have the right to. There is no legal stipulation or precedent for not being able to enjoy a game you bought that long ago. If you bought a car 10/20 years ago and it still functions why shouldn't you be allowed to drive it? People still do this with hot rods from the 1940s. It's your car. You don't own the manufacturing rights but you still own YOUR car.

#

Games don't really have a "statute of limitations" and I don't like the idea that they should.

reef thistle
calm locust
dusk sluice
#

so if i buy piece of cheese for 5 euros i should be able to eat it 20 years later. If not there maker or maybe the cow who's milk was used should be blamed that that it isn't edible anymore ? I payed for the game what was online only and played it 5 years or more. I taken far more out of the game then the 59.99 i payed.

reef thistle
#

And in the sense of the car analogy, what people are asking for wrt private servers is the right to manufacture and distribute the parts themselves.

strange owl
#

I interrupt this discussion with a picture of a sneaky Mocha in a tuna can.

image.png
calm locust
#

But your right to play those games shouldn't be infringed on. What if I want to play Sonic the Hedgheog 2? I like STH2. Just because some people think it's "old" doesn't mean I won't enjoy it.

#

Things being old doesn't mean they're bad, just like things being new doesn't mean they're good.

glad flower
#

Isn't this discussion about online only games though?

reef thistle
hollow notch
#

Old being good is mostly because of how human memory works. Our nostalgia only remembers the good parts, but really for every game that was worth the $50 spend on it, there were 10 games that were not. And SKG wants to save all of them because any EU Law passed cannot discriminate between a good game and a bad game. Games like Babylon's Fall would have to be saved.

calm locust
#

I feel like the discussion actually got sidelined a bit, because while Thor brought up live service games (with examples of mixed quality), SKG is talking about all games. There was one particularly egregious thing that happened recently that got memory holed, which was the shutdown of the 3DS nintendo eshop and all the games that were on it, none of which required a constant live connection to play, and many of which that would have become lost media if not for the efforts of people to archive them, like the Completionist.

reef thistle
#

I do think that what we ended up getting with the Crew didn't need to be an MMO, but there are features woven throughout the entire game that wouldn't work without a server.

calm locust
#

That's something that's considerably harder to defend

reef thistle
hollow notch
#

Japan doesnt have fair use laws. Nintendo sees ownership of their IP as absolute. Much to the dismay of their fans.

calm locust
reef thistle
calm locust
glad flower
#

That's a terrible argument lol

reef thistle
# calm locust Why not?

Because we don't have a right to own a game that we didn't own before it stopped being sold/supported.

calm locust
hollow notch
# calm locust Why not?

Until such an answer impacts Nintendo's bottom line, nothing is going to change. They are the market leader in mobile console gaming and until the gaming community votes with their wallet, it is what it is

reef thistle
calm locust
hollow notch
#

They want eminent domain of software code by the EU

reef thistle
reef thistle
glad flower
#

Wether they want to or not, they are asking devs to give up their IP rights in order to allow for private hosting

calm locust
hollow notch
reef thistle
hollow notch
calm locust
orchid abyss
#

isn't that what all art is? next generation ripping off the last, walking the line of plagiarism in many cases, in others creating something sublime?

reef thistle
calm locust
#

I haven't really read what they're proposing in the EU but I'm only familiar with SKG's general stated goals before this thing happened.

reef thistle
pallid sleet
#

The gray area is too big for a vague argument ppl only thing about their part of the history but don't see that it will influence them...

hollow notch
#

Overall, the SKG has some valid points about how badly the industry treats the idea of abandonware, but force legislating an answer to this will not work and is doomed to fail.

hallow kestrel
#

^ This. I am 100% in support of preserving games if possible, but enforcing it by law is not the answer

pallid sleet
#

its sad to don't be able to play old games that u liked but also if we put a restrain too big on the companies the new games will never be like the old ones we loved

calm locust
orchid abyss
reef thistle
robust galleon
#

The skg also doesn't seem to have any understanding of outside licensing or digital distribution. The clearly showed they don't understand backend coding for servers either.

orchid abyss
reef thistle
#

WRT The Crew, which was the main point for SKG, what they want would require it not be an online game. The leaderboards, the seeing other people around the map, it would all need to not be there. That fundamentally misunderstands what Ubisoft was going for.

And the only "solution" is private servers, which should always be at the discretion of the devs.

hallow kestrel
# calm locust The problem is that big devs cannot be trusted to do it, they will not elect to ...

You're right. They can't be trusted. The thing to me though is while it is important, I personally support game preservation, I don't know if I support it to a degree where there are laws that potentially affect the game development landscape in a negative light. And the teams that would be the most affected by this law would most likely be smaller studios that would, relative to the rest of their budget, need to financially support this, when they may or may not have the money.

#

That's another point I don't get seen brought up enough. This law would primarily affect smaller companies more since those are the companies that don't typically have the big budgets to spend on things like supporting this law

calm locust
# hallow kestrel You're right. They can't be trusted. The thing to me though is while it is impor...

That depends on the type of game smaller studios are making. I am a fan of Ross Scott so I did email him about this for clarification and it seems all he wants in the case of my games (as an example) is for me to be able to provide a way to play them after I "finish supporting them", and I suppose I'm okay with that myself, but I didn't consider that other devs might not be. I understand Ross's indignation here but at the same time I think this practice is far too ingrained for us to just tug on it because it might unravel the game industry as we know it.

reef thistle
#

Devs should be encouraged to provide some way to play games after they're no longer viable for the dev/publisher to support, but it should NEVER be a legal requirement. The unintended consequences of such would be catastrophic for the entire industry, but especially for indie games.

#

Shout out the guys who make this sort of thing easier, rather than demonising those that can't or won't.

hallow kestrel
#

Yeah, the issue is there are so many different circumstances that devs might be in that can affect whether or not they want to support it. Like, not every game is successful. If a studio spent money to make an online game, it flopped, and they are already out of money, they would need to find more somehow to abide by this law.

orchid abyss
#

My train of thought may also be completely off the tracks, too

#

One other quick thought on that: At least, I can't think of any examples of this with the exception of when the company was found to be acting in an illegal manner, civally or criminally

hallow kestrel
#

Also, for studios, if they make a multiplayer game that flops (which sometimes even good games flop if they just happen to not get seen), that additional cost to preserve a dead game might disincentivize them to make future multiplayer games, which goes against the preservation of games potentially since games that could have existed won't

reef thistle
hallow kestrel
#

Oh yeah, true, because of the wording, they would HAVE to pay for servers and stuff until the preservation change is done, and on a small team, who knows how long that could take

reef thistle
#

There's that, but also depending on how deeply ingrained the features are it could cost tens of thousands (or more) to "fix."

#

The team need to be paid for the preservation work they do, while also paying to keep the servers online in the meantime.

storm lintel
#

Awr, bantha poodoo. I did all my chores today and still no stream

calm locust
#

Prequel lingo

#

Oh man, it's time for me to leave

storm lintel
#

I beg your pardon? Poodoo was used long before the prequels

#

It's used in Return of The Jedi by Jabba himself

fresh ginkgo
#

Ah dangit

#

No stream tonight.
I had a TTS prepped and everything

#

Was gonna recommend a quake-style shooter with modular gun crafting :|

#

Also this is a miracle; thor actually acknowledged the discord streamchat

idle iris
#

Ross actually went over the argument of "how would this work on MMO's" by asking someone that ran a server emulator how games like that would work at the end-of-life stage. These were the conceptual solutions. The emulator dev also said that the effort required by the original devs to materialize these options definitely varied by the game's complexity, but ranged from an hour to a few days of work.
I think a lot of people are only watching his most recent videos about the initiative when Scott actually addressed this in a video 5 years ago. Granted, the video was an hour long so even on release a lot of people decided it wasn't worth the effort to watch, but he made a lot of good points in it.

Absolute_Minimum.JPG
earnest mirage
#

1 week no Stream yarrBluh

balmy finch
#

dang, i didn’t get the @ and was wondering when stream would start

earnest mirage
#

no stream for 1 week 😦

balmy finch
#

it’s gonna be a hell of a drought folks

fresh ginkgo
#

I can't find Thor's response on asmond's video

#

I keep scrolling and scrolling, even having text find going..
And it just doesn't show up

#

From what I've been told though, youtube comments are highly susceptible to flag abuse.
So...
If it's gone then there's a decent chance, if this is true, that the hatemob got it taken down

balmy finch
#

there sure is a hateflood yeesh

hidden haven
#

The worst thing is that people jump to personal attacks over someone's opinion. OHH NOO SOMEONE HAS DIFFERENT OPINION THAN ME, I MUST INSULT THEM IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE. Like whaaat.

dusk sluice
#

Welcome to the current year. If your not whit me then your against me. No grey just black and white. KEKWait

balmy finch
#

it’s never even that deep either

hidden haven
#

Yeah people just like to hate

balmy finch
#

i mean i’m a professional hater but i’m not going to pretend i always have the moral high ground, u kno

hidden haven
#

oh yes same

#

but i am respectable profesional hater 😄

dusk sluice
balmy finch
#

lmao same, i can accept when i’m just being a huge crab

earnest mirage
#

@idle iris. Minnimum effort will be implement VPN protection (ban system) and just set a region lock to all countries this garbage go through.
A few days... more like 2 weeks to a month with a couple of devs. Who pays them?
With a hundrets of players this is a slightly bigger fan base than usual. Typically it's way less than 100. Are you and everyone of the players willing to pay 500-1000 bucks each to make the server work?
In this case you also need new licenses for all servers. Who pays these?
If you don't like MMOs, than just don't play them and stick to single player and local co-op games....

dusk sluice
#

Being a crab and hating is so much easier then listening and maybe understanding the other persons point.

balmy finch
#

i think i can also understand when i’m feeling a strong instant reaction and that it isn’t indicative of truth or reason so i’ll let myself be a hater but then mull it over and come back and be less insane

idle iris
# earnest mirage <@201044280301715468>. Minnimum effort will be implement VPN protection (ban sys...

I never said I hated MMO's. I actually dropped out of college to play EverQuest (something I still regret to this day 24 years later).
That said, there are, as people pointed out earlier here, private servers for EQ that fund themselves, with the blessing of the current IP holders. It's certainly a better option than just killing the games permanently because a dev doesn't want to take the effort to release the server binaries to future players.
At this point, games are the only kind of art that doesn't deteriorate like most other goods but yet can just be destroyed when the creator stops providing a service. This isn't something inevitable, it's artificially happening by design, which is the entire point of Mr. Scott calling games as a service "fraud".

earnest mirage
#

maybe, but this is and should always be a thing between the playerbase and plubisher/ ip holder. Not by law!

idle iris
#

Correct. But if the industry won't fix this issue themselves because they don't see any financial reason to do so, then you're kinda stuck forcing their hand with laws and regulations.

earnest mirage
#

why stuck? It's their property...

#

if they say no, it's no...

idle iris
#

Is it? So you support planned obsolescence?

earnest mirage
#

the game is dead... no obsolescence...

idle iris
#

Given the example I'm using is a game that's still very much running on paid servers of the IP holders (EQ) and the community servers use vastly different, earlier versions of the game (Lazarus and Project 1999 being examples of such)... just saying "it's dead" isn't really accurate.

#

That said, there's certainly problems with those smaller populations which is why I don't play EQ on Lazarus anymore. In it's heyday you could always find groups of real-life players to join and go through the gameplay loop of killing mobs, getting loot, completing quests, etc. but with smaller populations the game is now full of people "multiboxing" (running multiple characters through multiple clients on one system and chaining them with AI scripting) so that they can emulate the 4-6 player group experience rather than actually playing with other people, which isn't really fun for me, so when I realized that my options were either playing the game solo and dying a lot (since it was never designed for solo play especially at higher levels) or multiboxing, I just stopped playing.

earnest mirage
#

read that again, slowly, and think about why this servers are maybe crap...

idle iris
#

It's still better than the "Let's just kill the game and destroy the product" like that live-service game that literally didn't even last 72 hours.

#

The reason they left that whole initiative so vague is because they know that implementation is often complex and they wanted to leave that to the companies themselves and the tech industry to do it themselves, not to hamstring them by saying "Do it this way specifically because the law says so"

fresh ginkgo
#

As I understand it, the way the system already works allows the best solution to exist

#

We just need to tackle it at a different angle

earnest mirage
#

Let's run the game forever. You will never have the same experience from back when you played it with thousands of other players. Almost no players gives everyone a bad experience, beside a lot of server side issues. But let it run forever and ever. KEKW

fresh ginkgo
#

Those kind of enforcement measures have to be manually initiated by the holders

#

So...
Specifically, narrowly call out the companies that abuse it

#

It's sort of a "there if you need it" type of protection, that has to be invoked