streamchat

[frosty ivy]

he was already asked on stream about it and he said he's not interested in talking to the people behind the initiative so 🤷🏽

[carmine halo]

Because he has, as i have understood, a strong opinion against it, BUT i also see him as someone, who is willing to talk over this...apparently i was wrong, which i find disappointing.

It doesn't have to be Thor, but he is someone, who i'd trust to represent the other side, who is willing to hear everyone out, or at least understands, where this petition comes from.

This is not so we get definitive answers, this is so, we have two people from each camp, throwing their arguments into the ring, because i think BOTH have good points, that need clarification.

[sacred junco]

welp, there you go.

i'm out of this, have fun and be civil

[carmine halo]

Yeah

[foggy plover]

https://tenor.com/view/awesome-ok-great-good-thumbs-up-gif-16351183

[serene valley]

hm I wonder if my messages are not showing up on stream again

[fresh ginkgo]

It's not even really a matter of making it "watertight" either

[serene valley]

sometimes my twitch decides not to show my messages to others (its usally also when I get ads)

[fresh ginkgo]

Just narrow the scope and make it unmistakable what games are being discussed here.

[carmine halo]

If he doesn't want to: Fine, i just thought, that he is a good candidate, that can represent counter-arguments (Which are important, to clear up this exact discussion we're ahving ^^).

[fresh ginkgo]

In fact, given the way the legal system generally works??

Don't even cast a net wider than one specific game if there isn't preexisting precedent

Keep the scope narrowed to that one game, and let it BECOME the precedent

That narrowing being the big point they currently fail at

[serene valley]

if I ever end up making my own live service game I want it setup in a way where people can in fact run their own servers

but that's just me

[carmine halo]

The petition ultimatively boils down to:

"Do i own the shit i bought?"

And that is a valid question. At this point in time, i am inclined to say "No!", or at least "Not always!" and that is worrysome.

[fresh ginkgo]

There is no "boils down to" when it comes to lawmaking, unfortunately

[foggy plover]

If I ever did I would come up with a way to ensure each customer has to read the EULA IN FULL so they know exactly what they're getting into 😉

[carmine halo]

There are other movements, like "Right to repair", that ask the exact question, but towards a different topic

[unique lance]

problem is nobody reads the EULA

[sterile monolith]

The answer to that question has always been "No" since the End User License Agreement was invented, regardless of if the game is online or not.

[carmine halo]

Well there are Laws in place, that, at least partially, exempt you from doing so

[fresh ginkgo]

If the issue is ownership then they are attacking this from the entirely wrong angle anyways

That is a much, MUCH deeper issue

What this petition is asking for will not fix that deeper issue even remotely

[carmine halo]

The EULA is an agreement, yes, but there are also laws, that state, what the EULA can include and what it cannot and also laws, that say, that certain things should not be hidden in the EULA, but need to be up front.

Here in the EU, we specifically have laws, that dictate, what the "BUY"-Button on a shop-page means

[foggy plover]

Sure, but almost entirely when said EULA language attempts to take away actual rights written in your country's foundational constitution-like document. Not "why you take 10 year old game away from me? rights"

[fresh ginkgo]

EU is not the end-all-be-all of laws

That's part of the problem.

[carmine halo]

Scott actually said that and his answer was "I am using games as an entry-point, because i know games and attacking this on ALL fronts will be impossible".

It is a complex issue, you are right, but...one has to start somewhere, i guess?

[fresh ginkgo]

If we're talking legal matters, you have to consider all of it.
In every location that is relevant to each individual case being dealt with

[carmine halo]

No, but the EU sets a precedent, that could seep into other countries.

[fresh ginkgo]

Not.. really, no

[sacred junco]

I will say this, thor won't get out of his way to have a discussion with someone about a topic he has a strong opinion, but if the opposite is true, then you have a chance to start said conversation

[fresh ginkgo]

That's not quite how it works.

[carmine halo]

But it did happen

[fresh ginkgo]

It's optimistic thinking.
I suppose a possibility, but it's a very simplistic view

[sterile monolith]

None of that changes that the thing that you are buying is a license to software, not the software.

[carmine halo]

It doesn't HAS to happen, but there is achance and that is, what he is counting on

[fresh ginkgo]

I understand that

We all understand that

Where those criticising it take issue, is that the risks outweigh it

Could this go well? Yes.

But it could much more easily go very, VERY wrong

[sterile monolith]

Ahh, so this is a trojan horse.

[carmine halo]

In a way

[sterile monolith]

We're getting all the gamers on board for a larger program.

[carmine halo]

He is aware, that he cannot go in all the way. He is not capable of overseeing the whole law situation...nobody is, so one has to chose an entry point, so he has chosen games, because he cares about games

[unique lance]

For tech that tends to be true. Aint nobody making an EU-specific doodad. Digital-only games might not work that way, for the larger companies at least.

[sterile monolith]

The EU claims extraterritoriality on some of its regulations, so they could potentially force things on people. The GDPR and the proliferation of annoying, unnessary (by "unnecessary", I mean according to the law's own provisions, not as a moral judgement) cookie pop-ups that followed it is an example that has affected pretty much everybody who has a website for commercial purposes, everywhere in the world.

[fresh ginkgo]

I'd argue you can't really use an "entry point" in this situation anyways.
This has to do with an utter lack of any legal concept of "property" when it comes to digital goods.

Below the tiers of trademark and copyright, nobody owns anything digital

Games aren't going to cut it here

It has to be addressed directly and us random people on the internet do not have the power or knowledge to do so

[unique lance]

yeah, if it's going out world-wide, a lot of people just...won't bother making an eu-specific version of something, they'll bake it into everything to lessen the workload later

[carmine halo]

Well to give an extreme example: There was a risk, that project Trinity (First nuke, ever fired) could set the atmosphere on fire...they did it anyway.

Yes, we're not POTENTIALLY killing people, i understand, my point is just, that there is always a risk.
However i also think, that this is a valid question to ask.

So shouldn't we completely stop, just because it COULD go very wrong...but also very right?

This is why i said, that a discussion is needed.

You say, that this does not consider all the angles and...yeah it doesn't.
IMHO the only way to do it, is to get people in and discuss it. ESPECIALLY people from the other side of the argument, because i understand Thors objections.

Why not come up with something that CAN do it?

[fresh ginkgo]

Okay this seems like there was a slight misunderstanding of my point earlier

[unique lance]

Major point I agree with is that people who disagree need to be in on the discussions

[fresh ginkgo]

I was talking about weighing the potential gain against the potential risk

[unique lance]

if they're not...cool disagreement bud, too bad

[carmine halo]

If the petition-makers would be unwilling to change things around, i would even withdraw my support, because life is acompromise and a compromise is needed here

[fresh ginkgo]

If the gain is higher, go for it.
If the risk is higher, do not.

[sterile monolith]

Yes, I think we actually agree here.

[unique lance]

If this ends up happening (which is a slim chance if we're being honest), people from both sides need to come together and make it not suck for everyone else involved

[fresh ginkgo]

Regardless

We likely don't even actually have that much power anyways

[unique lance]

yeah, this.

[unique lance]

gg discord

cool bug

[fresh ginkgo]

Online petitions historically don't tend to do all that much.
It takes OVERWHELMING, near-global support.

[unique lance]

replyed to that and it say thee nay

[sterile monolith]

I would say that very much depends on what you think "power" is and what you want to accomplish.

[sacred junco]

is scott stream on twitch or something? cause he could chat in thor's stream and get thor's attention
if you really want to have that convo between thor and scott about this @carmine halo

[unique lance]

scott streams on yt I think? Monthly Q&A stuff I never got into

[carmine halo]

Yeah, so at the moment, the risk is higher, than the gain.
I won't ask "Can you prove that?", because at the moment, we are throwing arguments at each other, that could be layed out, that each side is 110% right.

Instead, i would like to see:

Okay there is a high risk...can we minimize it?
Can we make this good, because the idea is good IMHO.

There are always ideas, that are good...but fail horribly in execution and you are pointing out, that this petition has a HIGH risk of going that route and that would be extremely wasteful.

[sacred junco]

oh wonderful, thor did side stream to youtube so he could just chat there

[fresh ginkgo]

Minimizing the risk is part of what Thor was saying earlier, and what we've all been saying this whole time

[carmine halo]

And that is why i asked, if he is willing to discuss with Ross ^^

PH

Thanks discord

[unique lance]

I mostly watch ross for his game dungeon stuff. though he do be pickin' weird games lately.

[carmine halo]

Did not want to answer

[fresh ginkgo]

Narrow the scope, and take a look at what's actually possible for companies to do, then come up with a proposal based on that information

[unique lance]

Like I said the man is frugal to a fault so he mostly dives into abandonware and games that cost a dollar

[carmine halo]

He does do monthly videostreams, but i think he is on YouTube

[fresh ginkgo]

Jeezus it's 6:42 am.

I've nearly been up 24 hours

[sacred junco]

He stated that he didn't want to talk to them, but, and this is more knowing thor likes to squash dumb ideas from chat, scott reaching out in chat would have a higher chance of success imo

[fresh ginkgo]

I'm out.

[carmine halo]

Uhm yeah, that is why i asked, if Thor would be willing to discuss this, because it would also be really interesting to hear the other side, which we haven't at this moment.

However Thor said, that he doesn't want to, which is too bad, but i respect that

We clearly need someone, like Thor, that brings in the concerns

Because they're valid

But we also shouldn't just throw the petition away

[sacred junco]

fair enough. As I said, if scott himself turns up and asked the same question, thor might "take the bait"

[fresh ginkgo]

Regardless I do tend to trust the guy who works in the gaming industry to know what is/isn't possible to do industry-side.

[fresh ginkgo]

Nobody was saying to throw it away

It needs alteration, not obliteration

[carmine halo]

Yeah no, that was just me being extreme

Or "blunt"

[fast dock]

btw after seeing my tts and getting the response i was expecting, i clapped my hands so hard, theyre red and warm LUL

[fresh ginkgo]

Was that the car one?

[fast dock]

yes

[fresh ginkgo]

👍

[fast dock]

btw shes a talented rigger for weird ass things, gotta hand it to her

[sacred junco]

You still have a chance, but now scott has to be the one who initiated this convo instead of thor.
I aware that I'm pushing for this idea to work, but there's your chance. hit scott up during his stream, thor basically streams everyday so it should be easy for them to have a convo right away

[glad totem]

I would say the closest thing that kids this days have to bob ross, is jazza

[carmine halo]

Or they watch the old videos

Have you seen the Video on what happened to his paintings? QUITE interesting

[west tiger]

Need to flag that whole thing that just happened for pants, too big to clip.

[sleek anvil]

Got a link for that video?

Or th ebest string to search for it

[serene valley]

does anyone happen to know a browser extension that automatically mutes audio if there's an ad

[carmine halo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDs3o1uLEdU

[tiny seal]

Someone tell Thor I counter his 4 Water and Last Word with Door to Nothingness...

[foggy plover]

Soooo close... but it's an artifact and not an instant. You'd have to have had that out on the field already. Aw shucks! 😉

[tiny seal]

Shit, I forgot that ...

I'm on my first cup of coffee this morning ... lol

[foggy plover]

Hey, I'm just surprised I remembered that right. I haven't played since the 90's LOL

[tiny seal]

Damn too bad he didn't play a Fling card with it ... lol.

With Fling, you could Twincast the Fling, and have a copy that is not countered. The copy of Fling uses the additional costs paid for the original spell.

[sleek anvil]

Didnt he paint each painting three times? Edit: yup the video covers it Thanks

[foggy plover]

Chef Sous She Thor, damnit!

[tiny seal]

lol

[carmine halo]

I think they cover that in the video

Wow...timing ^^

[sacred junco]

god damn it

[tiny seal]

Just saw this ... I wonder if if Thor being the Goblin Lord he is agrees ...

[foggy plover]

Didn't want to rehash.... proceeds to rehash LOL

[serene valley]

I think this person just thought that the tts didn't go through

[carmine halo]

r/punpolice

[serene valley]

and submitted it like 10 times

[foggy plover]

Nah. I'm of the opinion that some of these folks do it to keep stirring the pot after Thor has given his hour-long diatribe about the topic.

[serene valley]

that's cringe

if they are doing it because of that

[foggy plover]

Agreed. My opinion probably only applies to a very small set of people though.

[frosty ivy]

i guess he can't help it if people keep bringing it up?

[covert monolith]

he also seems to like debating/teaching/learning so its not outta left field for him

[foggy plover]

I mean, he could. But also, it's very difficult to me to stay out of an argument I know I shouldn't be in. So I don't know where he finds the level of restraint he does possess. I guess streaming has helped him develop it as a skill? 😉

[frosty ivy]

also rip to that chatter paying that extra $7 to send the same tts

[foggy plover]

It happens. A lot.

Reaper cushions LOLOLOL

[west tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/xmen-97-to-me-my-xmen-professor-x-charles-xavier-x-men-97-gif-11200293236245495357

[serene valley]

I think what could be put into law without too much backlash, is basically making it so it's just allowed by law to make your own servers for a game

if you reverse the traffic to such a point that you can do that,m that companies cna't C&D you for it or something

idk tho, maybe there's something I'm missing there that makes it a nightmare for game devs

[spice dome]

oh look, a new spam bot

[sacred junco]

still the same wanna boost your twitch acc thing

they prob find a new way to circumvent the filter

[frosty ivy]

this is a groundhog stream or something i think

[foggy plover]

This is ops normal whenever "big stories" come out

[frosty ivy]

chat asking the same questions from 5 hrs ago

[frosty ivy]

yeah

[carmine widget]

Unsure if links aren't allowed from people without a sub, or if I was just trying too close to the bot raid, but: UK Broadband map thing is here https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/coverage-and-speeds/ofcom-checker/

[serene valley]

ew

that tts about someone making a song

it's all AI generated

on their channel

[foggy plover]

It's literally either people who TTS later in the morning and think they're the first person to break the news to Thor, or they're trolling. Not sure which is worse IMO.

[graceful willow]

I mean, It's definitely the former

Do you see how fast the TTS queue loads up at the start of stream?

People dump in a ton of TTS in the first space of time

[frosty ivy]

i guess part of it is goblins is wanting to add to the debt also

[proper temple]

Birds being government drones just got real
https://twitter.com/TheFigen_/status/1819162692499759365

Figen (@TheFigen_) on X

Bird-shaped drone used by the Marines.

Twitter · Aug 2, 2024, 12:05 AM

[modest palm]

The one saying making AI songs helps them with irl stress?

[serene valley]

#answered-tts message

this one

[modest palm]

I cant find it lol

[serene valley]

don't think thor mentioned anything about it being AI generated tho

[serene valley]

the channel on youtube, it's the exact same name as the twitch user

[modest palm]

ah had a minor spelling mistake

[rotund kraken]

is there something like a dictionary for gml code?

[modest palm]

I mean they are clarifying.
Nothing bad about it if youre open about doing so imo

Yeah theres AI disclamers pretty much everywhere.
I see no issue with this.

[high crag]

https://youtu.be/tUAX0gnZ3Nw

[kindred sedge]

Thor playing the long game here

[high crag]

here is the video everyone is looking for @minor nymph

[naive spoke]

oo here we go

[dusk sluice]

whos is thor talking to ?

[flint quartz]

this is so bad

[serene valley]

it's a video

[dusk sluice]

ohhh

[serene valley]

specifically this one

[dusk sluice]

just got back

[regal crescent]

wheeew

[timber vortex]

boy howdy i can't take this video dude seriously

[regal crescent]

cool fomo indeed

sigh

[naive spoke]

I think you linked a different video.

[serene valley]

this is even worse than the site

[dusk sluice]

gawd this is just horrible.

[high crag]

i did this guy sucks same person

[naive spoke]

👍

[serene valley]

it made more sense when the guy wasn't talking

[rotund kraken]

like you have all functions listed and what they do

[high crag]

he is a mad man

[regal crescent]

it really did <_<

this is too far to one side of the bell curve

[serene valley]

yeah exactly

the part where online DRM breaks your single player game, yeah that's stupid make that shit a law

[modest palm]

Asmongold spitting tons of nonsense again lol

[soft timber]

I've watched Ross Scott's content, his main complaint is for games that have a single-player experience already build in but the game is unplayable after the server goes down

[serene valley]

Genshin or ZZZ is basically the game you want to legislate into running locally after sunset

more or less

[dire burrow]

Did you come to the discord to argue about your 10 minute timeout

[flint quartz]

i think thats a ban

[high crag]

can i create a fake signature to invalidate it once they submit it?

[regal crescent]

thats... certainly one way to protest >_>

[dire burrow]

Thats fraud if you intentionally do it- and also it would only invalidate your signature.

No insult slinging.

[modest palm]

Bye lmao

"you go fix it then" is crazy

[foggy plover]

Someone found a way to drag Thor back in. Well played

[timber vortex]

twas a bold move

[serene valley]

Like most of those games is just the singleplayer, so having legislation about it just running without servers would make at least some sense

[modest palm]

goods arent endless.
You dont go to the bakery either if your bread has became hard.
This is some crazy stuff

[serene valley]

But the way its phrased in that video is way more of a bad take and seems to actually cause more destruction than it saves

[graceful willow]

I like the concept. It sucks to think of old games I've played (Like the old Shadowrun FPS for X360) that are unavailable because they were multiplayer only.

I also think that the solution presented here is wildly overly broad, and is like taking a sledgehammer to something that needs surgical precision.

and that's very not good for all the reasons thor's covered at length

[foggy plover]

Yeah I certainly hope that guy isn't the movement's leader LOL

[serene valley]

He is

[foggy plover]

Wow. He'd better actively avoid any debates with Thor then LMAO

[graceful willow]

I wanna see that so bad

[naive spoke]

Wow

[serene valley]

What even could make sense is just allowing private servers after support ends, but idk how to legislate that

Not even that the company has to provide stuff for it, just that they can't C&D for it

If that makes sense

Like, make it legal to run private servers after support is killed

[foggy plover]

But that's the point Thor is making. It's the company's game. They should be able to decide if they want it to live on after they cut it loose. If they decide not to, well then that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[serene valley]

Well i mean it in the sense that companies can C&D people who run private servers, while the game is just bloatware because it has no servers

But I'm not a law person so idk how to go about legislating that nor do I know the exact ways that could be abused

[foggy plover]

Again, it's their software

[serene valley]

Yes and they keep their software

[ionic kite]

Imo, saying that companies should remodel live service games to fit a singleplayer experience is the gaming equivalent of buying a gym membership and then forcing the gym to help you build a home gym if/when they close down

it is lunacy

[foggy plover]

Hehe I kinda like this analogy. Don't even know if it's 100% apples to apples, but I like it.

[flint quartz]

am also curious where the line would go in terms of "Make game work after", as a game dev can i just github repo the server code and tell you to have fun compiling it

[ionic kite]

that would also be an issue if that law is actually passed

they would have to give developers clear guidelines

[foggy plover]

But for certain devs, that code is going to be part of their ongoing IP, which will be used in other game titles.

[astral orchid]

wheres the channel for posting your stream to grow

[ionic kite]

#advertising

[astral orchid]

thanks

[serene valley]

Yeah exactly, or would just giving the protocol and tooling be enough

[frosty ivy]

grab the streaming role also

[serene valley]

Like that kind of stuff has to be in that law in order for it to be any sort of followable

[astral orchid]

how do I grab a role

[forest glacier]

Sorry no blood for the blood thirst 😉

[ionic kite]

go to #role-selection

[serene valley]

There's also the question of, should it be something you only have to do if your business grows to a certain size?

[astral orchid]

thanks

[flint quartz]

aww

[serene valley]

Like Steve in his garage is exempt due to the size of his business, but Ubisoft isn't because they make millions

[tiny seal]

Ohh, just seen this, considering Thor was talking about the layoffs ...

[forest glacier]

I made a typo that flipped what I was trying to say, that was clearly not understood, little hasty but 🤷‍♂️

[flint quartz]

ye it happens

[serene valley]

Oh did you almost get banned lol

[forest glacier]

Although I was able to find out you cannot access the Ticket Tool if your timed out on Discord...Super not cool

[serene valley]

They need to make timeout configurable

Then again, there's roles for that stuff

[flint quartz]

you could do a mod ticket and make a suggestion

[forest glacier]

While I was timed out I reached Khronos about that. He is idle RN so probs see it later

[serene valley]

I also think discord should add native ban appeals to their server system but alas

Like when you click join it should have an appeal option

[regal crescent]

ah darn he got me

[high basalt]

CHAT HE CHALLENGED ME

[astral shuttle]

[high basalt]

we got into a stupid argument about eating worms on stream, and he said that he will believe me if I get a scientific paper on his desk by the next morning

so I did.

[timber vortex]

oh my god sonko this is brilliant

[high basalt]

i think you mean "breakthrough scientific literature"

[timber vortex]

both, definitely both lol

did he read it?

[high basalt]

yes 😄

there is a reason I got VIP on the channel

he said it goes into the collection of cursed artifacts

[timber vortex]

oh congrats! do you have a clip of this?

[high basalt]

no, it was sadly before the big explosion

when he had like a few hundred viewers

I do have a collection of TTS that I have tortured him with

[timber vortex]

ahh okay

also your TTS are gold

[high basalt]

#streamclips message

ah thanks

I don't need to introduce myself then 😄

[jagged ember]

You young people are at the exact age of despair. I never felt more finished and older than when I was in my twenties. He said 'my life has already passed me by and I didn't do anything'. But I'm here to tell you no: you have a lot of time - Guillermo del Toro

[timber vortex]

pretty solid quote there ^

[high basalt]

also no matter how good you are at something, there is a 10 year old in China who is already better

so chill

[regal crescent]

and now that's something that thor has said

[fossil sapphire]

your thirties are much like your twenties. but with money!

[dusk sluice]

and back pain!

[frosty ivy]

i pre-ordered the back pain 👍🏽

[unique lance]

Well stop pre-ordering things, then :V

[dusk sluice]

most likely was on sale or like 2 in 1. Pre order back pain and get knees cracking for free.

[zealous frost]

I can't believe how bad the new twitch mobile app is

They took a bad app and made it worse

[regal crescent]

rekt

[unique lance]

Yeah I used it one time

It used nearly 70% more battery life, used a lot more data, and generally just didn't work as well as the yt app

and the first two were with me telling it to use less res like normal

[frosty ivy]

honestly

[zealous frost]

It's shockingly bad for the size and impact of twitch

It's like the opposite of the tiktok website

And while I know Thor technically reads youtube chat, it feels neglected 😩

Hopefully all the screens work on his new computer instead of the 2.5 monitors he has now

[storm lintel]

....how many screens does he usually have?

[astral shuttle]

I kind of want a third, myself

[storm lintel]

I've been "considering" a second monitor for years, just never been compelled enough. I could definitely see needing two for his streaming needs, but more than that? Feels like the Operators from the Matrix series

[fallow badger]

About to set up a tv as my third monitor!

Too much going on for two lol.

[storm lintel]

I use my TV for both PC monitor and console gaming

That's my newest reason to ponder 2, but I don't really need both at the same time. I could just use my phone as a computer nowadays

[sacred junco]

oh god comment section MD on the new intel short is strong, a few screaming "PLANNED OBSOLESNCE INTEL BAD1!!!11!" already

[astral shuttle]

Why would they obsolete their current lineup

Its not time for gen 15 yet

[sacred junco]

Already posted on the technology channel, I will repost here for convenience https://youtu.be/b6vQlvefGxk?si=SbXS0JJW4zVcAQUI

[astral shuttle]

Oof, and dang he talking fast. I'm used to speeding up videos. He just had that much more content

[forest glacier]

hey

😛

my macro doesnt add the : so Im really surprised that worked. I was expecting just text 😂

[hazy tendon]

he's talking fast and yet it's still 47 minutes long. needless to say, the situation is an absolute mess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6vQlvefGxk&lc=UgyNWZTLSh3xIFQqR-d4AaABAg

Steve is slowly but surely gaining Louis Rossman's powers of talking at 2x speed.
lol

[astral shuttle]

Yep

[sacred junco]

Has anybody tts him about gn video?

[foggy plover]

Not yet, but I'd bet there's at least one in the queue

[forest glacier]

@lethal kindle 🙂

[lethal kindle]

how do i make this

i like this

[lethal kindle]

i think i got it

u rock thanks

[lethal kindle]

howd you get the tts tab

[forest glacier]

I dont like using the browser extension, its weird, I just use the Twitch chat hide feature and size the window to that side of my screen

[lethal kindle]

Yeah i downloaded the software itself, i just dont see the tts part to change like how you have it

[forest glacier]

Go to the Settings, top right, go to the Filters tab in the left side tabs, and find the "Quick Add" button and paste this in the filter section (not the name) (flags.cheer_message == 1)

[forest glacier]

With the filter set you close settings and open a new tab on the main window. set it to PirateSoftware and click the three dots to the right of the channel name below the tab list. theres an option to Set Filters, and you select the filter you made

you can have many tabs for the same channel and just filter them for whatever you want

Theres a filter info button thatll take you to the DOCs for how to do them, but here are the ones Ive found useful, some of which are too long to see here lol

[lime laurel]

I think that take of "D2 was at it's best under Activision", cause it kinda wasn't?

And Final Shape is one of the biggest releases yet for D2

[cold remnant]

is this a chat he reads in stream?

[forest glacier]

no

[lime laurel]

nah, just sharing thoughts

[cold remnant]

cool

[forest glacier]

For talking about Stream/Thor

[minor turtle]

He tries to avoid acknowledging our existence here

[lethal kindle]

Thank u btdubs i had to spin in circles for my physics lab

[wintry pond]

I am amazed that the world is still not up in flames, since all the most powerfull people are beyond idiotic

[forest glacier]

Also I made a custom @ me tab because the /mentions tab wont highlight a message that has your name if there is no @ and I want to see those too.

[lethal kindle]

ill definately play around with it eventually, finals week right now so im grinding

he is RIPPIN through TTS today

[astral shuttle]

There's an odd one coming up

Hm, puzzle

[sacred junco]

Odd one?

[astral shuttle]

Pay day puzzle

[serene valley]

SKG again

one thing I am confused about, why does making a private server require the rights to distribute the game?

[hazy tendon]

oh god, I think I saw somebody in chat say that they don't know what Kony 2012 is. I now feel even older. there's a whole generation that doesn't know what Kony 2012 is.

https://tenor.com/view/mgs4-metal-gear-solid4-solid-snake-old-snake-serious-gif-12172902

[serene valley]

the only reason I know what it is is because thor explained it before

[vast furnace]

i barely managed to hear about it

but im a late stage millenial that didnt get internet access til like, 2012

[serene valley]

early stage gen Z and kinda same

[astral shuttle]

I remember. Weird day

[fresh ginkgo]

If I had to guess..

Hosting a private server for other people to play, as far as legal definitions are concerned, technically counts as a form of distribution.

Thor said MYM has a demo.

I do not see a demo on the steam page

Where is the demo

[flint quartz]

it did have at tleast on the day when he last played it

dont know if it was only for a short time

[fresh ginkgo]

:<

[fallow badger]

No clue what it is either… I’m late millennial, 37 yrs old and I’ve had access to the internet since I was 13 lol

[fresh ginkgo]

...Late millenial?

If you're late then I really am on the absolute tail end of the generation o-o

[fallow badger]

Like born in the last few years where I would still be called a millennial

[fresh ginkgo]

First half of 1995, for me

[fallow badger]

Nvm , I just did some research, I’m more like right smack in the middle … lulkappa me

It’s 1981-1996 according to the first result on google which no lie, I referenced without even clicking the link haha

But yes you’re in the last year before whatever is after millennial 🤔🤔🤔

(According to the google box)

😂

[serene valley]

might be over

[fresh ginkgo]

dangit

[serene valley]

lemme check, i have it installed

oh yeah looks like it's no longer open

they just did like, free to play for a ~week

[fresh ginkgo]

Dangit

[serene valley]

dangit?

ah

dangit.

[vast furnace]

november 1995 lets a go

im on the counsil AND get the rank of millenial

[sterile monolith]

Content is often served incrementally from the server to the game clients in server-based games, unlike others where you download all of it at once at installation and it stays on your hard drive forever. That's literally distributing the game.

[serene valley]

huh

you mean that like genshin where there's updates from the server?

[sterile monolith]

Yes.

[serene valley]

yeah that's not even the kind that I would want private servers for

[sterile monolith]

(I haven't played Genshin, but I think so)

Even if you don't want to play games like that...

[serene valley]

the kind of private servers I would want is something like mario kart 8

where you can just set up a server and it creates lobbies for you to race in

[sterile monolith]

... eventually if you keep maintaining the server, you'll have to change it, and that might require the clients to change as well.

[serene valley]

hence why I am confused why it requires distribution rights, because you wouldn't be distributing anything of the game

[fresh ginkgo]

To my understanding, red.
That's not quite how distribution works

[serene valley]

you'd be hosting a server at a network address people connect to, which I fail to see how that requires distribution rights for the game

unless those rights are because you have to modify the game

tho technically you could DNS redirect

[sterile monolith]

The game state could be considered content.

[fresh ginkgo]

You would be facilitating other people to play the game

I'm pretty sure by definition that qualifies as distribution

[flat kindle]

has thor released a short regarding the petition he was just talking about or is that one in the works?

[sterile monolith]

I think he said a video was in the works. I'm not sure if it released yet.

[serene valley]

I think there might be a pants in the works

[fresh ginkgo]

Given the amount of detail, that's probably gonna be a pants

[serene valley]

at least thor said yesterday that's what he'll have done

[sterile monolith]

He definitely said "video" so definitely a pants

[flat kindle]

alright ill be looking out for it thanks

[sterile monolith]

Seems to be causing him a bit of consternation

[bleak remnant]

Welp - I'm glad I religiously check Thor's channel regularly, the Intel short actually let me know why my machine is starting to have issues good ol' 13700K you've served me well.

[stable spoke]

I created a 500 bit TTS message at around 9am GMT, pretty sure it didn't work. is there any way to see if its in the queue?

[haughty lintel]

I'm looking around here for the exact same thing. 950 bits at about 10am when the queue was only 20 minutes but I dunno if it went through as TTS

[flint quartz]

were only 50 TTS messages in so it might still be there somewhere

[forest glacier]

Did you try searching your Twitch username in the #answered-tts channel?

[serene valley]

cube world was mentioned earlier
https://wollay.com/2023/10/14/hornets-hedgehogs/

this is the latest update on wollays blog

[forest glacier]

We're 36 minutes into the TTS, maybe try searching your Twitch username in the #answered-tts channel.

[serene valley]

wait time just means current time - time the last played message was submitted

so it's an indication, but not a guarantee

[forest glacier]

Stream length 5 hours 38 minutes minus wait time of 5 hours 0 minutes equals TTS questions entered in the first 38 minutes of stream have been answered (and the last TTS took 5 hours and 0 minutes to be answered)

[serene valley]

lol that skin

it was even funnier that he didn't see it the first time and just went back to notepad

[haughty lintel]

Thanks for the explanation all ✌️

[flint quartz]

goblins too clever

[tiny seal]

Absolute Goblin Behavior .... lol.

[neon jasper]

xDDD

What is this

[serene valley]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-bees-harry-partridge-gif-4934733

[dusk sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/controlmypc-cat-screaming-discord-gif-20582295

[earnest mirage]

nightmare

[neon jasper]

truly

[tacit hare]

As a warframe vet, I am happy. Also Thor does not even k ow about Duviri, does he?

[tiny seal]

https://tenor.com/view/i'll-bee-damned-bee-i'll-be-damned-shrimple-its-as-shrimple-as-that-gif-9456218215943143153

[spice dome]

be stopped around the time voidrig became a thing

[tacit hare]

Oof, that means... he is faaaaar behind

[tiny seal]

I haven't played in like 3 seasons ...

[quasi shuttle]

Got it

[flint quartz]

think thor said its been like 4 years

[tacit hare]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-yareli-ninjasplayfree-tenno-duviri-gif-14578662640382340517

Gotta go back to work. Bye everyone

[spice dome]

voidrig:

Introduced Update 29.0 (2020-08-25)

[zealous frost]

this had me rolling

[drowsy vector]

xD Thor uses the same ship theme as me

[spice dome]

oh god, his colour scheme

https://tenor.com/view/eyes-burning-my-eyes-spongebob-gif-5183364

reminds me of the shit I used 8 years ago

[zealous frost]

https://tenor.com/view/the-amazing-world-of-gumball-sun-eyes-burn-pain-gif-8004315

[tiny seal]

lol

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-gauss-gauss-prime-gif-2327414794049684011

[spice dome]

why does he feel the need to aim while moving.. with ignis?

[split spindle]

Hello stream chat

My internet is bad enough I can't watch the stream, but can hang with y'all

[tiny seal]

https://tenor.com/view/all-your-base-all-your-base-are-belong-to-us-zero-wing-zerowung-somebody-set-up-us-the-bomb-gif-23152930

https://tenor.com/view/lets-go-live4ever-starship-troopers-gif-23699089

[jolly sky]

I last played Warframe in 2017 and I have NO idea what's going on lol

Completely lost

[astral shuttle]

Similar, multiplayer crashed on my old pc. Hadn't returned to it, yet. I do love the Ost tho. There is a killer cover of Lift Together on yt

[spice dome]

New War, a huge 4-6 hour quest

[jolly sky]

Last time I played they had just introduced the Planet world that you can run around on or something

[spice dome]

so Plains of Eidolon?

[jolly sky]

Oh yea that's what it was called

[spice dome]

that was in 2017

[sacred junco]

Thor hasn't watched the gn video right? Just arrived home.

[jolly sky]

And that was after a long break too so I was also lost then

[tiny seal]

https://tenor.com/view/ghost-rider-soul-mine-gif-13716482

[jolly sky]

https://tenor.com/view/raiden-metal-gear-gif-26063920

[astral shuttle]

I basically saw nothing except the very first tutorial level and original cut scene

2017 might be right

[storm lintel]

Wait, I thought the player character was a robot in Warframe?

[fossil sapphire]

maybe you should play and find out

the story quest going on in Stream is some heavy spoilers

the story is crazy good in warframe

[storm lintel]

I played about 30h a little after it first came out. I remember a little of the story, but I thought we were a sort of cybernetic life form while the enemies were the organics

[flint quartz]

didnt know warframe even had story

[frosty mural]

does anyone have response of Thor on this thing: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

(clip or video)

[flint quartz]

oh god not again

[frosty mural]

nono

I want the response video

I have some helbent friends that think its a good thing

[flint quartz]

dont think is ready yet

[frosty mural]

damn

[fossil sapphire]

well, back then, there wasnt much story. but Second Dream quest changed a lot, and it's been just amazing stuff since.

[lost needle]

Evangelion

yepp

its just mecha

[spice dome]

I need to go to the loo but gotta watch New War

[tiny seal]

https://tenor.com/view/gotcha-gif-7633050

[minor turtle]

Did the whole thing with intel get brought up yet

[sacred junco]

not yet it looks like

if what you mean is the gn video

[flint quartz]

i mean we did talk about the intel CPU thing before and i dont know if theres more to it anymore

[minor turtle]

Gamers nexus just did a new video on it tldr intel is really scumy and almost certainly lying about how long they have know about the issues plus they are about to lay off like 15% of there staff

[flint quartz]

well we did talk about that 15000 people layoff was it? and the cause and reasons with the CPUs and how intel offered 2 year longer warranty to those affected i suppose. Think Thors response to it was hes not gona be using Intel in the future.

[jolly sky]

I smell a class action lawsuit against Intel on the horizon

[sacred junco]

prob gn's falure analysis lab results and maybe their own testing validating claims

[zealous frost]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-haha-funny-maxheadroom-gif-4037442

[hidden haven]

damn just tuned into the stream

did not expect to see thor go back to warframe

why did he make that decision?

[flint quartz]

well he was thinking maybe some warframe, then he did a poll, and warframe won 43% vs noita 42%

[hidden haven]

dayum nice nic

good to see fellow tenno back

[tacit hare]

I have been waiting to post my dumb warframe memes all day

[timber vortex]

product placement in warframe? im out 🤣

[tacit hare]

nah, its funny cause his teeth are really discolored

no product placement

https://tenor.com/view/floof-warframe-kubrow-kubrowdon-spin-gif-23333099

you can buy these guys tho

[tiny seal]

Me when Ballsack Prime Drops ... lol.

"She's gonna eat him dude, Jesus!"

[digital canyon]

Ferrets.live rated #1 Stream by mine and my roomate's cats

[lament token]

Warframe is now Jojo: https://clips.twitch.tv/OddShakingDugongMVGame-4o2nOkpBa1ZKGwN5

[frosty mural]

what in the acid trip?https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/1xYLUvXoQuBerQao9eQuqGP3_5NxVrYy9jYxfKKfq88/https/media.tenor.com/peKeijUbP7AAAAPo/max-headroom-max.mp4

[zealous frost]

I was looking for og max headroom and accidentally clicked that one

All of max headroom is pretty trippy

https://youtu.be/nt56RMbpq_0?si=EK7Fj_zdOaG_ocCR

Thor is just the modern version

[flint quartz]

24h stream today?

[frosty ivy]

i wondered if thor would ever do a subathon but he basically does it everyday /j

[earnest reef]

Curious, this chat doesn't show up during his stream does it?

[forest glacier]

He doesn’t read this area no, if that’s what your asking

[earnest reef]

Exactly this. Kinda wish there was another way to get a TTS to him during stream. Can't access twitch or login into YouTube at work. Can still watch the YouTube stream at least

[forest glacier]

What are you not allowed to have you phone at work?

[earnest reef]

Exactly

[forest glacier]

That’s crazy. At that point how are you even watching stream? Or are you just restricted by company policy to not log in at work? I’m a little confused

[earnest reef]

We have internet access the entire time at work. So, I can watch Stream on YouTube without logging into YouTube. Can't log into YouTube because 2 factor authentication. Because of policies I can't have my phone during shift.

[forest glacier]

Ah I see. And his stream starts after your work begins? No time to slip one in before going to work?

Lunch breaks maybe?

[earnest reef]

Hi stream starts an hour before I get on shift and I watch all shift. Rolling lunches

[earnest reef]

I don't leave my desk for 12hrs except to use the restroom and heat up lunches.

[regal crescent]

😐

[earnest reef]

Jobs worth the hours.

[regal crescent]

good on ya. im an aircraft mechanic, i couldnt imagine being chained to a desk for 12 hours 😄

[earnest reef]

It was better when I could watch one piece the entire time 😆. Now I write a book while Thor battles Chat

[zealous frost]

I'm debating applying for a job doing electron beam welding for aerospace and it's sitting and looking through a sight and using a stop watch most of the day.

I think Thor would be the only thing keeping me sane 🙃

(debate is because I worked there for 2 months but the weld trainer left the country so I left... The other tasks they had were loading ak/ar gun magazines in and out of heat treating racks ☠️ they finally just posted the welding position again 2 years later )

[regal crescent]

definitely not something i could do :X

[lime tusk]

hey pals, does anyone has a timestamp of Thor's Friday stream reacting to the guy who says "live service games have scheduled obsolescence"? I had to leave the stream and wanted to see his reaction

[crystal axle]

which time? lol just in general, or when the guy responded back to thor?

[lime tusk]

the guy responded back?????

I just remember he reacted to his video on YouTube

[crystal axle]

so i think the main talk is @ 2:18:28 ish.. and when thor responds to the guys responce is 3:23:37

but im sick so i was passing in and out of sleep while watchihng lol

[lime tusk]

gonna check those two timestamps

[stone nacelle]

Minecraft needs birds so we can add a Molotov Cockatiel to blockgame

What the, J.O.E.L. Was seen in game?

[golden latch]

it has parrots

[stone nacelle]

Ah

I'll let someone else ask

[languid orbit]

I dont know if this is the right chat for it, but I saw the YT video about Ashes of creation and wanted to ask wich discord server this is?

[golden latch]

!aoc

[dapper raven]

Make an account here! https://ashesofcreation.com/sign-up/r/FHLFSS366YCCE66B Come join us on Discord here! https://discord.gg/4uQ6fkvtjR

[languid orbit]

Thank you very much

[split spindle]

Bootymuncher got the quest

Perfect name

[split burrow]

so close :p

[ember ember]

[wintry pond]

this needs to become pants

[storm lintel]

Single player Fortnite, haha

[fleet parcel]

Single player Apex, that would be ni- Titanfall

[flint quartz]

funny enough fortnite was 4 player coop zombie survival game at first

[storm lintel]

That would be dope

[flint quartz]

after 1 year they released the battle royale mode which everyone today refers as fortnite

[fleet parcel]

Old Fortnite was like Orc Must Die but zombies

[storm lintel]

Had no idea

[scenic vale]

i played save the world for the vbucks

[earnest mirage]

again 😕

[fleet parcel]

Chat keeps bringing it up, unfortunately

[flint quartz]

ye someone dropped a really mean comment in chat so were back

[storm lintel]

I've seen a couple TTS too

[wintry pond]

also, if people continue to play the game, then the servers wouldn't shut down. It only gets shut down, if keeping it up, bleeds money. Like, you try every month destroy 10% of your income for nothing.

this will distract from real problems, and that's a good thing? I am sorry, do I not get something?

[split burrow]

"Eat my entire ass." is a good Thor quote

[earnest mirage]

we need an eat my a** emote 😄

[split burrow]

i agree

[dusk sluice]

hmm how can one emote a..eating ?

[earnest mirage]

thats the question

[split burrow]

maybe add eat letters and a butt shaking?

or a chunck missing like a cookie?

[storm lintel]

Off to a tough start today. Need to find a good game to recommend

[earnest mirage]

emotes should be family friendly iirc. Thats why they banned dumpy emotes a while back.

[wintry pond]

I would love for khronos to come up and show how badly this would be abused from legal side.

[split burrow]

[dusk sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-nicholson-yes-nod-agree-gif-11928667053720670991

[split burrow]

maybe make a pants out of this topic with khronos

[sacred junco]

I just gonna wait for the video

god this is active battefield

[earnest mirage]

nah, it'll give the whole thinge more attention and he refused to do anything in this direction.

[split burrow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1037106921452351528/1224309729585532938/MOREINTENSE.gif?=

[sacred junco]

thor did say that he recorded a video about this last night, it's being edited right now

god why I occasionally fat pinky'd the enter key instead of apostrophe

[wintry pond]

most people dont understand legal stuff, so they dont know what this means in reality. So we need someone who knows the law to come out and explain how this would be abused, cause it WILL be abused.

[proud depot]

I would just like to add to the discussion that The Crew had a single player mode that was shut down along with the multiplayer

[split burrow]

rip

[flint quartz]

ye this is kinda the issue that people want to fix with this new law, but the legislation is so vague that it will also impact every game with online

[proud depot]

Yeah I agree with everything thor is saying, I'm just saying he's wrong about the crew specifically

[split burrow]

so what is a healthy period of time a live server should be active?

[sacred junco]

I can say that thanks to the vague language, whatever intention of "keeping single player games not tied to a online server" is buried

[proud depot]

I've tried telling him, but he's not seeing the chats T_T

[flint quartz]

i guess there is no limit? so 1 day

[sacred junco]

You probably have to TTS this
given how fast the chat is scrolling

[split burrow]

this topic is confusing me

i have smol brain

[fossil sapphire]

question is: so how do we find a way to target these basically singleplayer games, with tacked on online requirements, to preserve them?

[wintry pond]

be less vague

[proud depot]

I feel like I'd be a bother bringing it up again, but I'll do the tts

[fleet parcel]

A good thing about this is that it's filtering away the dumb people

[sacred junco]

I'm on the same boat with you.
I registered that the language in the initiative is really broad. but thats about it

[dusk sluice]

gawd people are just smood brained

[modest palm]

Is he ranting about the killing games thing again?

[fossil sapphire]

yes.

[split burrow]

yep

[wintry pond]

I cant wait to download whatever the size of ALL wow worlds, music, dialog, sound effects on my computer. It will not implode for sure

[sacred junco]

Yep

[modest palm]

Thought so with how angry he was when I joined

[fossil sapphire]

you already have it on your pc if you install the game you goblin

[proud depot]

a problem is I still like freeman's mind, so I'm gonna have to practice death of the author on that

[flint quartz]

if the law is EU only, can we just not release the game in EU? only do US and Asia releases

[modest palm]

Bro what

[sacred junco]

Or release an eu only version, like how Sony already did with their games in japan

[split burrow]

hmm

[modest palm]

"You're WRONG"!

[dusk sluice]

hmmm yes let's do that. No one gets games in EU

[fossil sapphire]

problem with this initiative is how to distinguish a bad live service (the crew) from a good live service (lets say WoW or ff14) and preserve the other

[wintry pond]

then games would have to make different versions, and most dont want to make versions of a game, so they would go with the most strict version for everyone

[broken hound]

the problem with the discusson and whats causing people siding with the petition to get pissed at thor is 1) calling the crew proper live service is laughable. its basically just a single player game forced onto servers (like most racing games now) 2) the allegations the crew had an offline mode ubisoft refused to release 3) only the dumbest of people are saying it should apply to stuff like mmos.

however people are also getting too emotional to realise thors right about it being too vague. cause "live service" games that have zero need to be live service 1000% should be forced to have an offline mode. but wording it the way they have is gonna open the nutcases to force mmos and things that are actual live service to be caught in the cross fire

[proud depot]

He brought up TF2 at one point. IIRC valve has a plan for allowing you to play all your games in offline mode should the need arise

[fossil sapphire]

it's not an opinion if crew is live service. that's what it is. we dont live in the "what if world".

[wintry pond]

the way it is written, it totally affects mmos, or it dosent exclude mmos from it.

[broken hound]

honestly i freaking appreciate thor doing research on the topic cause i was hella on board with it at first cause im sick of racing games especially being forced to be online only when theres zero need. but yea its too vague for me to actually support

[flint quartz]

i think all valve games got bot matches

[broken hound]

by thors own words "live service" would dictate multiplayer reliant. the crew isnt in the slightest

[split burrow]

so the problem with this its because its vague

hmm

[wintry pond]

beeing vague in law is big trouble

[proud depot]

I'm sure should valve think tf2 isn't worth supporting anymore, they would still allow user run servers like they always have. and even possibly (IDK how likely) allow community made updates

[fossil sapphire]

i understand this. which is why i'm saying, the problem with this initiative is how to distinguish a bad live service (the crew) from a good live service (lets say WoW or ff14) and preserve the other

[modest palm]

Thor always cooking not because hes automatically correct but researched is so hot it might just overheat my phone.

[proud depot]

valve just seems like one of those companies who cares from atop their gigantic pile of money

[flint quartz]

New Law = "Make game play"

[proud depot]

I feel like he's just repeating himself now

[fossil sapphire]

thor is npc and chat keeps hitting "talk"

[fleet parcel]

He's repeating himself because chatters keep coming in and asking the same questions and arguing the same things

[fossil sapphire]

i see you're new here ;)

[broken hound]

the other big problem with the topic thats turned it into a emotional crap flinging contest with people online is cause people are sick of AAA delisting stuff. the crew was just the straw that broke the camels back. cause it happened not long after ubisoft did that massive old game delist fest

[proud depot]

I live in the timezone before his (up in Alaska) so I really can only catch the first few hours

[fleet parcel]

It's like people who come into the stream and asking what kind of game he's playing after he's already explained it

[flint quartz]

we need a picture of Thor with dialog options on it

[fervent pike]

https://tenor.com/view/cooking-hype-wait-penguin-cook-gif-15327874777766683182

[verbal viper]

He’s playing the burn game

[fossil sapphire]

nah i meant more like, i see you joined discord recently, and this is just normal Thor behaviour in times like these :D

[modest palm]

"Lets social engineer politicians!"

[split burrow]

ooff

[fleet parcel]

Is Ross even from EU

[proud depot]

nope, from the US

[split burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-really-stressed-mad-angry-gif-16109475

[wintry pond]

"they dont care about games"... so, why would they pass it? also "diversion from serious topics"... so, so why do we want a diversion from those serious topics? WHAT even are those topics

[verbal viper]

This chat is easier to keep up with lol

[river haven]

The wording of the law as well as the targeted game, "The Crew", or "WoW" or "FF14" aren't good points to make this out of. The games that need to be targeted for this are more like Square Enix's constantly shat out Gatcha's like KH X, FF BC, games where they relentlessly milk whales and players alike to make any sort of progress then disappear the entire app / software when they decide to stop supporting it, when the games are almost entirely single player grinding fests designed to suck money up. Where the argument "Well, if you don't like it, don't play it" doesn't work well because it's whole chunks of the lore of the game becoming lost media when they decide to close them down.

[woeful geyser]

ah, the 6-month cycle gacha games?

[glossy crypt]

TTS are going to keep bringing this up sporadically throughout the entire stream aren’t they 🙃

[river haven]

the shittiest of the games.

[wintry pond]

then word it, so that it only affects that

[proud depot]

he originally gained fame for the "freemans mind" machinima series made with Half Life (1) he is (very slowly) making freemans mind 2 (in half life 2)

[woeful geyser]

they have been for days, yes

[river haven]

I agree on that point. It needs to be reworded and not use something like "The Crew" as an example.

[proud depot]

it actually is a good example, it had a single player campaign that was shut down when the multiplayer was

thats what originally got ross angry

[river haven]

it had it's decade long life time though. Gatcha style games last less than a year in many scenarios and leave players with nothing after spending hundreds.

[viral merlin]

Dawngate mentioned T_T

[wintry pond]

so, this was a man child's tantrum the whole time?

[broken hound]

😅 its why im probs just gonna head to warframe or something. i dont wanna say something stupid that ill regret out of frustriation of hearing it 20 times over lol

[flint quartz]

i mean the law makes sense in what the goal is, but is not the right way to go about it

[proud depot]

and if that happened to a single player only game? Why should it matter that it had a multiplayer component?

I'm not saying the multiplayer needs to continue, just the single player

(not that I care, I've never played the crew myself)

[river haven]

Then there should be laws against predatory games like that? I could use a gatcha example, the current "Ever Crisis" game. It has a shitload of single player content but still predatory practices in sucking money out of people. Or they need to make it more clear to people from the get go, maybe use bigger text instead of ToS no one reads. "This game will go away when we're done milking you" or something.

[broken hound]

"there should be laws against predatory games like that?" my dude.... thats literally the topic of discussion... its what the petition is supposed to be aimed at but its worded so crap its gonna catch everything in the crossfire.

[river haven]

He keeps throwing out examples like WoW or Eve or FF14 that aren't being the offending problems here, in my own humble opinion. Which is why I completely agree the wording needs to be changed.

[broken hound]

we're saying the wording needs to be less vague so games with no real right being live service like the crew get targeted but mmos like WoW dont get caught in the crossfire

[river haven]

Again. I'm in complete agreement.

[proud depot]

to give a modern example: imagine if when Rockstar decides that gta5 online isn't worth supporting anymore, you couldn't play the story mode anymore either. thats what I'm talking about

[wintry pond]

gachas dont die because they are done milking the players. The whole appeal of them most of the time is the IP, people figure it out and leave the game, so they have no players anymore and have to close, because nobody is playing it anymore.

[river haven]

That's what I'm saying they should go after, predatory practices that aren't delivering any product that can be used beyond the offending companies use of just milking players for as much as possible. The Crew is not an adequate example. It had a full long life, not just six months of trickle updates abandoned when it's not bringing in more than it costs.

There is a problem, but the wording in what they want is too open ended, and the examples they've chosen to use are just ridiculous.

[fleet parcel]

Just turn the public server into private 4head

[topaz geyser]

ok but riddle me this, rewritten and done with proper language would it not be better to force them to do a playable offline variant such as bots for PVP or local co op or p2p??? its kinda a ton of work but like game preservation no? just like ROMS

no servers no cost

only pain in remaking

[broken hound]

they kind of arent tho. the big thing that lead to the crew being the poster child was it was unnessesarily live service and (atleast alegedly) had the offline mode or otherway to keep the game playable after sunset that they want in the files just not made available. making it literally the perfect example for what they want.

[broken hound]

hell for the game theyre using as a poster child it wouldnt even be remaking lol, most the races i was in was bots cause i only ever played singleplayer lol.

[proud depot]

IMO a plan should only be required for after support ends if there is a singleplayer or mainly singleplayer mode. (solo servers of otherwise multiplayer gamemodes exhempted of course)

[topaz geyser]

lol yeah they game they used is dumb aha

[river haven]

I'll openly admit, I haven't played the crew. Racing games aren't my bag. So I can't speak from experience. If there was a beefed up single player game, that could have been seperated from the live service, then sure. Maybe it could have been offered, but not required by law?

[modest palm]

Bruh?

[split burrow]

Wow

[topaz geyser]

yeah like wayfinder made their online game a p2p and co op game or rip multiplayer from warframe if they want to turn off servers id still play for hours lol

[modest palm]

"Sign my games petition or you DIE"

Get a grip and take a shower.

[river haven]

From Experience, I'd be using Square Enix shitfests such as Kingdom Hearts Unchained, Final Fantasy Before Crisis, or the current Ever Crisis shit show as examples of predatory things that this bill should target. So in complete agreement that the bill's too vague and the example doesn't make sense to me, but maybe because I haven't played it.

[topaz geyser]

yeah this part is BS lol

to me this is the same shit as ROMS

we should preserve works anyway we can

this is written bad tho

[broken hound]

problem with it is its a double edged sword. politicians are laughable at best most the time so puting stuff on them is a death sentence for anything. but its also a death sentance for gaming to rely on the publishers to do good by the players.

[river haven]

Full support of preserving dead media in the case of single player

[topaz geyser]

making online games into singleplayer would be ASSS but why not??? like preserve your works then kill servers and move on

[bleak briar]

whats the topic in the stream atm ?

[proud depot]

or if they force you to log in because they want to have leaderboards and flog booster packs and then you can no longer log in to a game that you can't even play multiplayer in (eg: assassins creed)

[flint quartz]

easy wins

[bleak briar]

easy win ?

[topaz geyser]

people who are responding in a toxic way are brutal but i agree we should preserve games maybe not in an initiative made by this guy..... this ross guy seems a tad off lol

[proud depot]

that live service eu law thing hes talked about before

[livid path]

Mmm yes making an argument for something, and starting with “politicians like easy wins” instead of factual/statistic based info. Sure it may be true but it’s not how you make an argument 🤦‍♂️

[astral shuttle]

Man, not going to be easy changing the topic eh

[topaz geyser]

prob not

[livid path]

Thor’s about done with it

[flint quartz]

we more or less talking about the law initiative that would make online games playable after they close down, but its rather poorly writtten and Thor is not happy

[astral shuttle]

I'm past done

Just letting dust clear

[flint quartz]

i mean can you blame him? this like 3rd day now

[livid path]

I think he said he’s putting a pants out with his thoughts on it and leaving it at that. Might have misunderstood tho

[topaz geyser]

we should preserve games smart but not this way this is written badly

[bleak briar]

ohhhh

[fleet parcel]

I wonder how big is the JP audience that Thor has

[bleak briar]

i see thanks

[broken hound]

on the talk of roms tho, it kinda pains me knowing that the teams trying to unlock that offline mode in the crew are likely to face the same fate as that mob that got EAed someone mentioned. crew was the one undercover wannabe street racer that actually felt like an undercover street racer instead of just a track racer on the streets. the 2 new ones heavily pale in comparason impo.

[flint quartz]

probably not too big as asian people often dont do english good and require translated youtubes etc. on their own platforms

[livid path]

“1d chess” 🤣

[topaz geyser]

offline variants should be the way with bots, co op or p2p should not be forced into keeping servers up

[proud depot]

might have scratched that midnight club itch that even I have (rockstar pls release new gaem)

[astral shuttle]

Idk, dead games are dead. I'm sooner upset by the emulation website being shut down

[glossy crypt]

Oh god I’m scared for the queue

[proud depot]

I was overjoyed when I found out humongous entertainment put their entire catalog of games on steam

[river haven]

What would star citizen count as then? A live support multiplayer game that'll be dead and gone at some point despite people paying thousands on it? Seems kinda predatory if the games just dead and gone at some point for a game offering ship packages at over 1000 usd a pop.

[astral shuttle]

Cool

[topaz geyser]

true but if theres no alternative like a second game they should be made into making an offline variant PRESERVE GAMES!!

[flint quartz]

Store front

[livid path]

As much as I’d love for all games to be available forever and all that other stuff included in this. I feel like you paying for a live service game is you paying for an experience. A moment in time to enjoy now and cherish the memory of once it’s gone

[hidden patrol]

hope it just goes to debt thingy

[buoyant arrow]

There's serious arguments to made for game preservation for historical purposes, but that's markedly different from just keeping games publicly available forerver. For one, they have severely different overhead costs.

[livid path]

That would be awesome yeah, but it being mandatory by the government would massively hurt the dev community

[topaz geyser]

very true but im sure theres a way this could be done proper id play my fav online games solo or with bots 1000%

or co op

[buoyant arrow]

Imagine you being required by law to submit every painting you've ever made to be submitted and preserved forever, which is your responsiblity.

[livid path]

Yeah I’d like to thing so too, it’s just definitely not something to rush into vaguely like they are now

[wintry pond]

what I am afraid of is, this proposal leads to the government to look closer at game industry and pass a different law, that would make it worse for everyone, not only eu.

[astral shuttle]

Honestly, you get to my age, games aren't relevant

[topaz geyser]

yeah def not this is less than ideal

[wintry pond]

never underestimate human stupidity.

[proud depot]

just brought up steamdb, game had 187 players in the entirety of march 2024

[astral shuttle]

Yeah, its kony 2012 fr

[fossil sapphire]

What is this argument? :D I've been gaming 30 years now. games are as important as ever

[proud depot]

with a peak of 12,236 in december 2014

[sturdy oyster]

democracies fall because people are stupid

[flint quartz]

are you like 65?

[astral shuttle]

Well, it hurts to marathon play or you have more important ways to use your time

Nah

[topaz geyser]

id say this is enough to kill online and keep offline

[sturdy oyster]

are you in the age bracket at which advertisers dont care about you

[wintry pond]

then just switch what games you are playing

[glossy crypt]

Somehow I dodged Kony 2012 completely despite being Old and Online. Just learning about it now

[astral shuttle]

Yeah, i play noita recently

[broken hound]

it was great impo, never played midnight club so dont know how it compares. the handling was admitedly a bit underwelming but the whole open world, being recruited by a investigation agency and having to work your way up in the scene to become a king pin while helping connections out along the way was a vibe. and the fact i bought a challenger early on in my playthroughs, and was able to keep it to basically end game, get all the different specs in it and everything kinda gave me that immersion no other street racer had. cause thats what street racings about. building your rig up and over coming whats thrown at you, not just swapping to a lambo cause some rich boy wanna poke fun lol

[topaz geyser]

this private server argument is so dumb lol

[fossil sapphire]

surely stream moved on by now

[astral shuttle]

I never liked online play, too immature

[livid path]

Noita is insane man

[topaz geyser]

nop

[broken hound]

god are they still going?

[sturdy oyster]

nope

[livid path]

So much game per game

[fleet parcel]

They just want to play the game, no care about who made it

[buoyant arrow]

The important thing to also consider with legislation like this, how would corporations pass the weight of it down to the user? Because that keeps happening everytime legislation is passed to regulate in a way that costs more for the producer. The cost gets passed down to the consumer.

[split meteor]

It feels like both ross and thor are only addressing part of eachothers' concerns.

Ross has a legitimate issue of "It sucks to spend full price on a game and then it dies, can't we do something to make that not the case?",
and thor has the legitimate argument of "It costs time and money to keep live service games up forever, and legislating against their existence kills a huge swath of games".

[topaz geyser]

yeah.... only good argument not to toot my own horn would be offline variants for game preservation if no game 2 exists

[sturdy oyster]

what he just described is like watching someone paint some art, tearing the canvas then reselling an exact copy of it

[proud depot]

the draw of midnight club is arcadey-style, open world racing. And similar in MC3 you can get a VW Golf which will get you through like 90% of the game.

[buoyant arrow]

Well who would be responsible for that preservation?

[topaz geyser]

yeah this is bad

[split meteor]

I wish it was as simple as handing the community the tools to host themselves, really, but good luck convincing companies to act against their own self-interest and basically hand control of their game away to the public.

[frosty mural]

people that want live service games to be there forever:

[vast furnace]

as much as we would love to have every game stick around as long as Team Fortress 2, team fortress 2 and the other games like it that have barely managed to cling on for that time span are anomalies. No one is demanding Call of Duty 3 to have multiplayer servers opened up.

[river haven]

I kinda feel like the 'private servers' argument also falls apart for like original World of Warcraft servers or GTA 4 / 5 RP servers that fans / community run and upkeep completely.

[proud depot]

game had tons of customization for cars as well, like so much more than gta5 which doesn't feel the same

[wintry pond]

I dont think thor has a problem with the idea of it, just the wording is vague and it will be abused.

[buoyant arrow]

Handing the community the tools sounds good on paper, but also opens up so much risk for abuse.

[topaz geyser]

company would just cut online and have their game offline solo or like co op on steam its a MASSIVE overhaul but can be done for many games but games like WoW would be a interesting situation

[split meteor]

I'm one of those people, but I'm not deluded enough to think that'll be the case lmao. We're very lucky when fans can figure out how to host fan servers out of pocket, but it's not a solution for everything.

[fleet parcel]

Thor likes the idea of the initiation BUT it's ruined by how it's being executed

[split meteor]

Oh yeah ross's actual execution and initiation is the actual worst

[sturdy oyster]

people got so mad when they found out that gta6 was delayed so long because of gta online

[buoyant arrow]

Okay, but where would that version be made available? Who'd make sure it stays available? Someone would have to carry that responsibilty beyong the point of "made offline"

[split meteor]

Ross seems very spiteful in his approach rather than considered.

[vast furnace]

the tone is very.. rightous. Like games indistries have wronged them.

[proud depot]

here's hoping the video thor is making will help clear up what his issues are with the whole campaign

[broken hound]

yea, problem is the people on the "sign this thing now streamer" side of it dont realise thor technically agrees with thier premise about single player games being forced online is stupid. they just wanna be like "you talked bad about the one guy that spoke up at this level about this issue even tho you were right to cause he worded stuff badly and harmfully"

[astral shuttle]

Mm grandstanding

[wintry pond]

also, did anyone consider if you could still buy the game after it closes down, but is still there?

[topaz geyser]

steam???? or wherever its hosted maybe even cut downloads so anyone who had it before can play brutal reworks but CAN be done

[split meteor]

In some cases they have, but like, it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[vast furnace]

now he campaigns on something that would say, make Call of Duty 3 need to do something for online servers.

[proud depot]

at least if thor leaves out the comments about ross directly

[buoyant arrow]

It's entirely based in emotion. Cause games they like are not available anymore.

[astral shuttle]

I imagine it'll be delisted

[topaz geyser]

yeah this is brutal

[frosty mural]

okay let me rephrase: we all want that but that want it to be a law. but yeah GTA5 and WOW private servers are not even based on retail server infrastructure or soft. they are custom made and work in a fraction of a way of how official servers work

[vast furnace]

like imagine activision having to figure out a way to keep Call of Duty 3 online and playable.

it had multiplayer

[buoyant arrow]

So Steam would be forced to host games for free and carry that cost of that hosting? Why would Valve be liable for that?

[topaz geyser]

yeah screw that rip multiplayer add bots push update remove future downloads

[frosty mural]

fucks over the companies that had some old mmos running in the past and no longer does

[topaz geyser]

so make the game downloadable for x time and then thats it

or delist

like?

[proud depot]

no, there is no need to keep multiplayer modes online. Just the single player stuff

[golden gust]

More dev costs for low return, no way that's happening

[topaz geyser]

yeah thats what im saying

[broken hound]

thats cause it is. problem with that is rather than being like thor and turning spite into actual tangible good. dudes turned it into emotion fueled idiocy thats gonna kill any future hope of saving needlessly live service games and otherwise needlessly delisted games

[vast furnace]

which would be fine i suppose if the language defined, specified this.

[split meteor]

you and I agree, I just sympathize with ross's desire to have some kind of solution come about where developers can sunset their live service games in a way that doesn't take the game away from the players.

His solution though is short-sighted

[topaz geyser]

im all for game preservation all games and ROMS and i wont change lol theres a way this works properly but its not what we have now

[river haven]

"Just read the ToS" is such a poor argument though. Every person in here has at least once scrolled through one and clicked accept because they're designed to be obtuse and confusing.

[topaz geyser]

you should read them though but yeah i get it

[river haven]

I agree, but they're not designed to be an easy read while taking a poop when they use legal jargon that most white collar workers would have to hire a lawyer to explain to them.

[sturdy oyster]

i keep seeing people in chat say that they should get a refund for the license to play if a live service game gets shut down. thats so braindead cause thats like asking adobe for a refund after you get bored of photoshop

[split meteor]

I just wish developers would design live service games in such a way that when it comes time to flip the off switch, there's still a game there for the players afterwards.

[buoyant arrow]

That would still force Steam to carry the cost for it. You'd disincentivise digital storefronts as a whole.

[limpid widget]

Deep rock galactic did this :)

[split meteor]

yeee

[topaz geyser]

this ^

[glossy crypt]

I’m not smart. I need simplified ToS.

[proud depot]

ok there is a whole argument about copyright being too long as it is, so I'll answer thor his question of "how long should I be able to own my own creations" with an answer of 28 years, with an option of extending the copyright for another 28 years for a maximum of 56

[split meteor]

I'd personally match copyright to patents

[wintry pond]

its up to the devs to do whatever they want with their product.

[split meteor]

obviously, yeah. Hence "I wish"

[fresh ginkgo]

With all due respect.
Screw off with that.

I say that AS a creator

[broken hound]

it doesnt help that thors not a racer tho, cause him calling the crew live service cause that technically what it is. is unintentially adding fuel to thier bs fire cause hes not in the know about why the crew became the straw that broke the camels back. and theyre too busy being mad to try and get thor looking into why the crew became the poster child for this stuff

[fresh ginkgo]

Forcing people to give up the rights to what they make?
For ANY reason?

Hell, effing, no.

[proud depot]

thats where we disagree. copyright shouldn't last forever. That stifles creation and allows mega corporations to own shit forever

[topaz geyser]

i dont think so dude, if done right multiplayer can be ripped out and bots and co op added, and hosted for like 3 months for download and thats it dev keeps IP nobody needs to store data

[limpid widget]

Thor was extremely hostile, mean and pointlessly aggressive to ross scott for no reason. He's a small youtuber doing his best to help the archival of games, he's not getting paid for this or anything.

[fresh ginkgo]

You don't understand how copyright works then if that's what you believe

[split meteor]

Ehh, ross scot is kind of being a hostile, aggressive type himself.

[flint quartz]

dont think it does, aint copyright like 100 years?

[topaz geyser]

yeah... idk this whole thing is a mess lol

[limpid widget]

Nope!

[vast furnace]

dont hinge upon "if done right".

"if done right" would have solved many many problems in history.

but its never "done right"

[limpid widget]

Not even a little, he's really honest, straightforward and inoffensive. And then thor is just raging at him and calling him a used car salesman. Awful behavior.

[proud depot]

I'm not saying thats how it does work, I'm saying thats how it should work. copyright shouldn't last 70 years after the death of the creator. thats absurd

[fresh ginkgo]

And why not?

[buoyant arrow]

The issue isn't multiplayer or offline function. It's bandwidth. Bandwidth costs money. I'm talking about people downloading the game. That would cost Steam money. It would force them to do that, even if temporary. Cause now hosting a game has a potential three month extra cost for which they aren't allowed to expect profit? Or would that offline version be sold at a different price?

[devout needle]

but afaik the initiative is not about forcing devs to give up anything, is about preventing the publishers going after eg. private servers after the live service game servers get shutoff, what they would be forced to is to patch out the forced and exclusive connection to their servers.

[plucky yarrow]

https://www.change.org/p/bring-back-everhaven-project-dragon-phoenix-labs

[broken hound]

isnt that what copy right law already is tho? after the set time it becomes public domain or abandonware? hence why one era of micky already became public domain cause disney couldnt find something to remake with it to keep it theres

[topaz geyser]

could be sold and really??? steam is huge or have the devs host the game for download for a bit and if they cant absorb the cost make it a download fee

[split meteor]

Copyright has a very interesting legal philosophy behind it, actually. Its primary (stated) purpose is to encourage the creation of more art by providing a limited monopoly on distribution for a limited time. This is surprisingly narrow in terms of ideological basis, but the rabid extension of its length has in effect stifled creation of the shared basis of art.

It's similar to how patents work, where to encourage innovation within society, they provide a limited monopoly on the intellectual property of a given invention.

It's not strictly "to protect artists", it's to protect the production of art as a whole.

[wintry pond]

the problem was the time

[vast furnace]

steam boat willy specifically

[limpid widget]

The only person i've seen have an issue with ross is thor lol, the dude could not be more inoffensive. The problem with ross is he offended thor's ex-blizzard lizard brain

[proud depot]

like I said, it stifles creation and is against how the world worked for millenia. Imagine if thats how it worked when disney was just getting started. No snow white, no cinderella, no robin hood, etc

[vast furnace]

no one is alive today who would have seen steam boat willy in its day.

[fresh ginkgo]

To be perfectly honest? I don't really agree with the idea of copyright expiring

[vast furnace]

and it barely got into our hands now.

[fresh ginkgo]

Fix how copyright is handled, don't just say "you lose it"

Time limits is the wrong direction

[split meteor]

You don't think artistic ideas and references and so on should eventually be free to use and sample by the public?

[buoyant arrow]

So because they "can" they should be forced too? That's a really bad precedent to set and dangerous in legislation.

[wintry pond]

give a solution then, if you cant, stop talking.

[flint quartz]

i mean had he hired an actual lawyer to write this initiative we might be able to agree with the take

[proud depot]

Its very much a good thing that steamboat willie entered the public domain. And it woulde have happened back in 1984 had disney not lobbied the government about it

[fresh ginkgo]

I'm trying to, if you would stop being impatient or throwing insults, and actually give me time to type

[topaz geyser]

i never said that, if they can absorb the cost and want to then sure otherwise do a download fee to cover it and then walk away and keep ur IP

[buoyant arrow]

I'd say lifetime. If you create a complete work it should be lifetime. but that gets muddy af with multiple creators involved.

[river haven]

Type Faster?

[devout needle]

but this is an initiative, not a law to be passed????

[proud depot]

can you post links in this channel?

[topaz geyser]

idk try

[devout needle]

it's meant to get them to look at the issue

[vast furnace]

correct. and star wars would be entering our public donain in a few decades but now its likely I'll be rotting in the ground long before Star wars is available to the public.

[split meteor]

protip: Letting yourself get interrupted by people replying to your posts does nothing but frustrate yourself. Take the time to type your entire thought process or you'll just get bullied and be angry.

[buoyant arrow]

Ah, okay, I misunderstood in that case.

[uncut talon]

Thor looks amazing in 160p.. the highest quality I've seen him in.

[wintry pond]

so, I can just pay someone to end a creator, so I can use their work? hmmm

[buoyant arrow]

Well, that's an extreme way to think of it.

[vast furnace]

no one alive today probs, will be able to do anything with idk, harry potter i guess

[buoyant arrow]

"But what if people murder people over IP rights?"

Really?

[hard burrow]

Aha! This is where Twitch chat connects to the Discord. I'll follow this chat rather than the primary river >__<

[vast furnace]

corporations count as peopel for this purpose.

[thorny kelp]

L takes: Apex legends has a community project called R5Reloaded. This project would allow Apex Legends to continue even if the main game is sunset. The Monalisa is actually in the public domain, you can print your own and have it in your living room.

[split meteor]

Genuinely I think the length of patents and one or two extension periods if you're still financially exploiting your works successfully is more than enough to benefit the artist while not depriving society of the cultural reference and availability of that work.

[glossy crypt]

My tv decided I should only watch in 144p

[vast furnace]

which is why disney is still clinging onto Walt's creations.

[proud depot]

@fresh ginkgo watch this video on copyright: https://youtu.be/SiEXgpp37No?si=HLlpyNBJEz7xzHsW and then get back to me with your opinion that copyright should last forever

[topaz geyser]

yeah idk how much it would cost to do like 100k downloads but if the game is dead then MAYBE 1k downloads wouldnt be to costly otherwise download fee idk im sure this could workout if done properly not what we have now lol

[fresh ginkgo]

Anyways.
I don't think copyright should expire, so much as I think they way copyright is defined/used should change. There should be more systems in place to facilitate legal 3rd party usage

[uncut talon]

144p is a nostalgia trip for me lol

[buoyant arrow]

It's not a bad idea at face value, but there'd have to be contractual agreement to protect all parties, that I'm not smart enough to define.

[split meteor]

That's what public domain is about, my guy. The artist doesn't stop being able to make copies of their works or "lose ownership", they just lose the exclusive monopoly on distribution and derivative works.

And! Derivative works themselves are still covered by copyright even if a character or story enters the public domain.

[vast furnace]

derivitive being the key word.

[broken hound]

eh, its more about not delisting old games, predominantly single player games that have next to no reason being online/live service having a offline mode and just otherwise keeping games playable in some capacity after "end of life" cause people got sick of mainly ubisoft doing delist fests a couple years ago.

[tropic harbor]

Disney, Nintendo, great examples of that

[vast furnace]

the moment winnie the pooh got public domained, someone made a horror movie with it of all things.

[fresh ginkgo]

Speaking as a creator, I don't like wild, unrestricted open usage like that.
The things I made being kept accurate to their design is extremely important to me.
Public domain, as we see with steamboat willie, HEAVILY distorts things

[hard burrow]

I just gave a SDCC panel on this topic.

[topaz geyser]

yeah something like that then people could share the game around like ROMS but then u enter that territory and since the IP is still owned suing could happen to prevent hosting sites or other people making u may to download the files

[river haven]

Or more recently, Warner doing Delists on everything Adult Swim Games made. At least that had a better ending and a lot of the games were returned to their original developers.

[buoyant arrow]

"Derivative" could be as simple as printing a painting on a T-Shirt and selling that. Or reselling it as a poster.

[vast furnace]

oh so what red bubble allows

questionably.

[tropic harbor]

Were they!? Thats cool I didn't know they did that

[vast furnace]

as i enjoy my tf2 t shirt that valve probably had 0 say about

[buoyant arrow]

It'd create yet another messy swamp of rightholders arguing. It'd take decades to figure out.

[limpid widget]

It has been, thor just doesn't like it :p

[devout needle]

@broken hound well it literally is just an initiative to bring attention to the lawmakers that a potential right is being infringed by the publishers removing access to a game you bought a license for, so it's a blanket thing really.

[hard burrow]

Related term: "ancillary rights" are important to also keep track of when you're looking at contracts covering those IP rights.

[broken hound]

wait, warner actually pulled thier heads out and did it? last i heard they were actively refusing to give the rights or transfer the games back to the devs and if they had a problem with it theyd have to just make a new steam listing for it

[split meteor]

Sure, but copyright is already a balance between the benefit to society and benefit to the individual author. Eventually the good of society needs to win out, hence the argument of how long copyright lasts.

[topaz geyser]

yeah but then the company can walk away and move on or start suing when people cross lines

[fresh ginkgo]

Find that hard to believe when Khronos, a lawyer, also takes issue with it

[limpid widget]

Archival and preservation methods for games matter a shitton. As do consumer rights. Just "vote with your wallet", is nonsense which observably doesn't work in the real world, which is why we have widespread consumer regulation accross every industry. Games are just too new for regulation to have caught up yet. This is it catching up.

[devout needle]

funny, because it's not a law, right?

[limpid widget]

So it's lawyers vs lawyers, oh no?

[river haven]

I don't know if they gave back rights to all the games, but quite a few ended up getting rights to their own games while being required to remove certain names or logo's from the game before selling it again

[topaz geyser]

1000% keep games around

[buoyant arrow]

Yep, but the question is whether those lines are defined by legislation or remain on an individual basis. That latter of which wouldn't have changed much.

[tropic harbor]

They are trying to.. make it one.

[broken hound]

you realise copyright law already covers that right... if you keep using your works it doesnt go public domain... if you dont use em tho and they become abandoned in the eyes of the law then they do

[hard burrow]

Lawyers can agree to disagree; I know though that in the US, a lot of proposed legislation / calls for legislation have little to no lawyer involvement, surprisingly and sadly enough.

[topaz geyser]

prob individual if i made my online game single player and then walked away but then found a site hosting it for $ id sue tf outta them

[sturdy oyster]

"have them accept the risk" is wild

[split meteor]

Yeah, this. Lawyers - especially civil lawyers - are professional disagreers.

[devout needle]

make what a law? it's an initiative. to bring lawmaker's attention to something

[hard burrow]

For instance, the most recent... one of the Dakotas... tried to do anti-loot box legislation that was incredibly poorly written.

[thorny kelp]

But does it? I am quite sure Mickey Mouse and Winnie the Poh are still in constant use, and it didn't prevent the thing from entering public domain.

[uncut talon]

Ross has the right idea, somewhere, but the way he presents it isn't good. It ignores fundamental copyright laws and intellectual property protection. Almost like no one owns the games that are shut down, which isn't reality but maybe the reality that Ross is inside of. He should really take his movement back to the drawing board and return to working on his movie and Freeman's Mind.

[topaz geyser]

yeah this guy is a goof tbh lol

[fresh ginkgo]

As far as I'm aware, just "continuing to use it" isn't enough, and you have to continuously, manually renew it.
Which is a legal process not everyone knows how to do.

[hard burrow]

But alternatively, in Germany / Australia, legislation has passed that currently has lawyers successfully getting lootbox purchases refunded to their clients (pending).

[devout needle]

have ANY of you read the annex to the initiative? what exactly is THE law that will be getting passed??

[uncut talon]

He is a goof and I love him because he's a goof, but he's sooo far outside of his comfort zone that he has the potential of causing more harm than good.

[tropic harbor]

Right, so it would be worded better to make sense

[limpid widget]

What really bothers me is the incongruency between the stated reasoning and behavior. If the real issue with the initiative is it's not specific enough then solve it. This is a community effort. Ross has stated over and over again he wants help and is figureheading it because nobody else is. Thor shifted into personal attacks as soon as the real solution was provided, working with him to improve it. (and started rambling about vote-with-wallet nonsense)

[split meteor]

Mickey Mouse =/= steamboat willie, winnie the pooh =/= the cartoon character design of winnie the pooh.

Mickey is a newer design and character protected by copyright.
The cartoon character of winnie the pooh is a recent creation and thus protected.

[topaz geyser]

yeah i agree someone else should be doing this but better

[split meteor]

steamboat willie is in the public domain, and the fictional character winnie the pooh is in the public domain due to the original books being in the public domain now

But not the animated cartoon

[orchid abyss]

Steamboat Willie is Mickey Mouse, but an earlier design and a different copyright/trademark than the newer version.

[fresh ginkgo]

Do you even understand what this is?
It's not proposing a law, it is attempting to be a framework/proposal for lawmakers to follow in making a law.

[uncut talon]

Definitely the basis for a good cause is there, but the wrong person is helming it. I'm tempted to get into Essay-Tube with this issue on the rise.

[buoyant arrow]

The dude did publicly insult legislators when trying to get legislation passed. It's a fundementally bad look.

[broken hound]

isnt it why disney when i a big live action remake fest the last few years? to save as many as they could? i know ive heard something about actively using it being part of it

[thorny kelp]

You still proved my point tho. Are you saying that the original, version 1.0 release will have to be released into public domain, but the latest version as it is the latest will still be protected? because that is closer to what Mickey mouse and Winioh poh were.

[hard burrow]

** In the public domain as far as copyright is concerned, for early episodes, but Disney is still trying to protect him via trademark protections.

[devout needle]

there is no law getting passed, that's what I was saying previously. people were acting like this was a law or somethinh

[buoyant arrow]

"I want a tasty meal, but the cooks are stupid, so I'mma exploit their stupidity to get my meal"

[topaz geyser]

idk i think MOST people here are on the page of we should preserve but not force games to stay online because thats stupid lol

[split meteor]

Minor things like version revisions would have to be settled in court, IIRC.

[split meteor]

Oh yeah for sure, trademark law is its own can of worms

[fleet parcel]

I think we've lost the main topic of the stream now because of different distractions the chat makes

[uncut talon]

Preserve, YES. Keep games always online? No, that's a money sink like the point hole for Thor's points on Twitch.

[fresh ginkgo]

There is no law bring voted on.
This initiative is trying to lead into that step

[limpid widget]

He didn't, objectively. I think it's possible to twist it into that if you're thor and doing your best possible effort to misunderstand the words of an opponent though.

[river haven]

Huh, i might go check what he's paying for german translation.

[sterile monolith]

People are still talking about this boring initiative?

[thorny kelp]

Yes, and that is why it makes it controversial and complicated. Precisely my point of why "Keep using it" doesn't really extend the Copyright term at all. That currently mostly applies for NEW works. - Derivative or otherwise.

[hard burrow]

Also -- just saying -- really glad to see that so many people are interested in video game law. I'm in the process of contributing an intellectual property primer for the community, (not official), and this is really giving me a good idea for what I need to include.

[topaz geyser]

yeah why sink $ into a dead game preserve and then nuke servers

[hard burrow]

(What I was doing instead of the game jam.)