Story of destroying a game - Classic balancing.

[obsidian canyon]

Hello!

I joined this discord with 1 reason only, to complain.

I just joined a mini & wumbo game to play a fun game with an OP unit, have fun, log off, go to sleep.

Now Hypercarry, the only fun thing from this game mode, has been removed.

Just a question for the devs, @Dani (Private / Off work) @Drachir @Jules @Lisk @Trik

I really find myself deciding these days, should i even play a game, need to tryhard everything, because you are catering to the minority of players that want balance? Balance ranked, but leave classic alone.

Steadily, you have been nerfing my favourite units, buffing the units that suck balls to play, and making the game a baseline piece of crap that removes any fun from it.

Fun stuff:
Dam this unit is so op, i can push workers and dominate the game
Dam, egg is so fun if i can get away with it, if they don't send 3, i can push workers like mad
and many fkin others
I used to love Tower TD classic, with OP pyros, now people just leave the game when it happens.

I understand balance, like crabs, but the rest, its like you are throwing this game into a monotonous pit, and shitting on it.

If you are saying that this is not costing you anything, and shitting on player fun is ok, because people are buying just 1 copy of the game, you are wrong.

Skins bring revenue, when its fun, i even considered buying some to show off, when i get afk banned for 350 days, i buy another copy. I'm at my 5th copy. But i'm definetly not considering buying a 6th, or any skins for that matter.

Just my 2 cents, you are ruining this game. For me at least.
Also the 3 other people that were in my lobby this game. We FF'ed wave 9🗡️

[obsidian canyon]

Also, balancing by win rate, feels like you are removing any soul from the game.

[stray mortar]

if you want something op, then play a singleplayer game no? if it has ranked it needs to be balanced otherwise everyone will do the same unit every single time and every game will be the exact same

[radiant scarab]

units are balanced around ranked, not classic

[obsidian canyon]

Are you autistic, i was talking about classic. You can play your perfectly balanced games as much as you want on ranked.

[scenic carbon]

People quit in tower defence because its by far the least popular game mode. So they just leave when its upvoted.

And the towers and waves are balanced based on ranked data not classic. The only thing they change a bit are the modes based on community feedback

afaik, hypercarry was overshadowing every other spell in mini wumbo

[obsidian canyon]

My point is that it was fun. even if it was overshadowing. Now its boring.

They should change the other spells to be fun as well, rather than removing the fun

[stray mortar]

Again you only found it fun because it was op. If you want to go play a single player game and put on God mode otherwise learn strategies

[obsidian canyon]

That’s exactly the problem though — “OP = learn strategies” ignores why people play these modes in the first place. Fun and variety matter just as much as balance. Something being strong doesn’t automatically mean it’s bad for the game, especially in casual or rotating modes. Instead of flattening everything into the same safe power level, they could have brought other spells up to that level so players had more viable, exciting options. Removing what people enjoyed just narrows the experience.

[scenic carbon]

I understand, I would like to have classic as a fully casual forfun mode too

but sadly there are some players who want it more balanced

[stray mortar]

If something is op you don't need strategy... And bringing everything else to an op state? What next make 1 unit strong enough to win alone so you can stay afk seeing how op you are? Again being op is meant for single player games

[obsidian canyon]

catering to some tryhards, and ignoring the casual players, will kill the game

You’re arguing extremes though. “OP” doesn’t automatically mean “no strategy” — it just means it’s strong. Strategy still exists in timing, positioning, sending right. And no one said everything should be brought to the same state, just that more options should be worth picking.

Also, labeling fun, chaotic, or power-fantasy gameplay as “singleplayer-only” is arbitrary. These modes aren’t pure competitive ladders — they exist to be engaging. If players leave when something they enjoyed is removed, that’s a design signal, not a skill issue.

[scenic carbon]

it aren't the tryhards who are complaining tbh, they just abuse the OP strats and others complain about it

[obsidian canyon]

then they play it as well, and they have fun. stealing builds is part of the game

[scenic carbon]

There isn't something that decides fun for everybody? you said you like tower defense and I hate it 🙂

I also hate to play vs the same builds every game

[obsidian canyon]

if you are saying you disliked having 300 workers on 16, you are lying 🙂

now its horrible, i don't like it either

[obsidian canyon]

i like playing against similar builds, to figure out how to break them. banana bunk hypercarry, send 6, starve him, send 13 for 100% leak

[scenic carbon]

oh I just always autosend in classic and not watching the game

have some football or twitch on the side

[obsidian canyon]

well, what are we talking about :)) you are arguing something you don't care about being as it is

[scenic carbon]

like I said, I'm not the one complaining 😛

I only explain why its removed from the pool

I always thought that everyone wanted classic ranks to be removed, the devs did an in game poll and the majority of the players wanted to keep it

[obsidian canyon]

having ranks is fun, tuning it to be a boring slop is not

i don't care about rank imo, but i see people caring

but the rank should be focused on Ranked mode, not classic

you play ranked to win

you play classic to have fun

and win

[scenic carbon]

thats not what I try to explain fam. I tried to explain that we're probably the 10% of the players who want to have these weird fun stuff in classic, while the majority want to have it somewhat balanced

[obsidian canyon]

i would be very suprised if i'm in a minority. based on game sentiment and chat, nobody is happy with that change.

If this "majority" is advocating for it, i have not seen it in actual games. And i have almost 1000 hours

[scenic carbon]

and most devs / companies listen to what a majority want

I have 6k

😛

[obsidian canyon]

you might be confusing "majority" with most vocal

[scenic carbon]

nope, the most vocal people are people like you who make a discord post over changes they don't like

you barely see someone posting postive feedback

the majority is always silent

[obsidian canyon]

yesterday, the mini and wumbo games, 60% of them FF or dodge

[scenic carbon]

happened that before hyper carry too?

[obsidian canyon]

never

at least my games

i used to play every wumbo window, every time

and very rare were dodges and afk

[scenic carbon]

maybe yesterday was just unlucky?

[obsidian canyon]

now i avoid it. idk

[scenic carbon]

but I tried to explain, and will let the devs decide 🙂

[obsidian canyon]

this happened to world of warcraft, the whole game is grey now, nothing is better because its just better in some situations, everything is exactly the same for every class and spec. now nobody plays it anymore

[stray mortar]

The most vocal people? You mean like you who instantly called me a tard? XD

[obsidian canyon]

this "majority" keeps playing

[obsidian canyon]

i have been playing this game for 3 years. first time considering quitting, you just pissed me off

[stray mortar]

That just means you can't hold an argumentation lol, I played the game when it first released and I am playing it now, so I gave my opinion on the topic

[obsidian canyon]

do you play ranked or classic?

[stray mortar]

I mostly play ranked I stopped with classic because it wasn't fun to me. But sometimes I am forced by friends to play a round or two

[obsidian canyon]

why isn't it fun for you?

[stray mortar]

Because I think it feels repetitive, I see people do the same thing every time because it is too strong for example as another topic also complained about it crab summoner spams

[obsidian canyon]

you kill crab summoner spawn 7, 14, and 17, almost always 100% leak

idk, its fun playing against them

interesting take, i don't much care what the other guy is playing, as long as i can push like crazy, that's the fun for me

and leak if i find a perfect wave

and i see plenty of build variety

so idk what your experience is, but not the same as mine

[stray mortar]

For me the fun is finding different strategies and playing something else every other game though I tend to stick with what works in ranked.

[obsidian canyon]

well, you have the same issue, what works gets nerfed, and you gotta find some other shit unit you don't like to play, just because its "meta"

[stray mortar]

So for me the idea of nerfing something to make it as strong as everything else is the only real solution

[stray mortar]

That's the thing there are only 2 units I don't like lol

[obsidian canyon]

until there is no meta, and everything feels like ass to play

well, arguing with people that have over 5k hours makes no sense, i'm talking about casual players

[stray mortar]

I mean looking at other games the meta is also always shifting

[stray mortar]

Which this game nearly doesn't have in my opinion

[obsidian canyon]

well, opinions are great, reality might be different. i just aired my shit, now its for devs to decide

[scenic carbon]

Are you matt blood ?

[obsidian canyon]

nah

[shy trench]

One thing devs know in classic put some extra bonus for smurfs and have fun ou yeah

[delicate bolt]

I always took GA miner prior to the hypercarry addition. Then i was Hypercarry Miner. I am now back to GA miner 10/10. Wumbo has always been a 1 spell is bis to me at least. the only deviation iv ever taken is duobuilding where i sometimes take protector but my mate needs to take GA so we can push early. Hypercarry made more openers viable to me at least.

[scenic carbon]

I also think that hypercarry was more a noob trap than broken

[delicate bolt]

r u telling me hypercarrying a crab was not efficient :3

[tired zealot]

We heard community feedback that Hypercarry was too strong and crowding out other options, which is why it was removed

I agree it was fun though. Created a poll here

[tired zealot]

Next patch, we're planning to bring back a slightly nerfed version of Hypercarry to Mini and Wumbo.