#Roll-System on New Patch and the Fun-Killing Side Effects

20 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

worldly hornet
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Hi, first of all id like to say that i really love the game, i play alot and consistently reach 2400-2600. Thanks for your hard work, really appreciate it.

But now about this patch and my concerns. This is the first Patch ever, which frustrates me ALOT. Why?

-> The New Roll System is alot more unconsistent (you can push less - got less myth - less gold - which makes the game slower and more unfun). LTD2 shines when you can push and build big units and combos, not when you are scared of every second wave because you cant roll any tanks or any decent rolls (yes im only 2400-2600 consistently, but if i think 50% of the games have bad rolls now, imagine what people on 1600-2200 elo think now). Im already Using 90% of the Units very effectively, and still im having 0 fun in this new patch. Before the Patch i was happy 85% of the time with the rolls. I think the roll options got far too lass tanks now, and are far too expensive.

What is even more extreme, is that i played redraw twice. My rolls on first Game were 6 DPS Units (2 of them were versatile, no tanks). And my Second game had 6 Units with Siege Damage. I mean - really? Even if i got redraw - that shouldnt be possible at all. This makes you feel like to wish to ff the game instantly. Ofc you shouldnt have perf roll everygame, or close to it. But 6 DPS Units, or 6 Siege Damage Units - thats just not playable. Imagine telling someone to play Rock, Paper, Scissors, but he has to take Rock 6 First Rounds.

So Could we please, please, please, change back or atleast adapt the rolling system? The rollback would be insane, since it was so great before. But if we adapt, we maybe can get atleast 1 more tank, and atleast some cheaper roll options. I feel like everything is so expensive, and not well split into different tanks.

Also every game plays out the same in this patch. I played like 50 Games in the last days - and every game is income till 10 of both parties. If you real send you basically lost in 2600 elo games.

jade oreBOT
worldly hornet
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What i also wanted to add: This new Roll-System makes the game WAY harder, which is not a good feature at all, since the game is already VERY hard on high elo. now you got even more things to worry, for less fun. i think fun is the part why we all play games, and making things harder, for less fun is not a good option. if making something harder brings more fun, i think that would be great! but here its alot harder to play the game and hold the waves, for no reason. the old roll system worked well. all could push, build alot and have fun. i also cant see the argument that more adapting is better. since you have to adapt so much already (if you want to play high elo), its just adding difficulty for no gains. newer players will also have it way more difficult. imo the goal should be to make the game as easy as possible, while as difficult as needed to be for being a pvp-game. as i said im in love with the game ❤️ pls respond to my message and consider to revert some changes ❤️

ripe ivy
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Redraw/chaos rolls were not changed this patch

worldly hornet
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ah ok didnt know that, thx. but still, my point stands. i just wrote that with redraw coz i tried redraw, coz everything else is unplayable

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normaly i fiesta, champion, greed, and i think the changes are really not good

echo flame
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I think you might have a little bit of confirmation bias. I don't think the average roll quality is different, the changes just reduced the sharpness of the edge-case scenarios

worldly hornet
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i dont know what confirmation bias means, my main language is german. but about the roll of quality - ofc its way different. thats why i made this post. also its stated here:

Mastermind Rolls

You are no longer guaranteed a fortified/natural tank, swift/natural tank, or arcane tank

You are now guaranteed at least 1 true tank, which is defined as a high effective-health-per-gold fighter with value between 160 and 250

You are now guaranteed at least 1 true DPS, which is defined as a high effective-DPS-per-gold with value between 160 and 250

You are now guaranteed at least one high-priced fighter (T4-T5)

Removed unintended roll randomization bias that caused cheap fighters (T1s) and tanks to show up more often than other fighters

You are still guaranteed at least one cheap fighter (T1)

You are still guaranteed at least one mid-priced fighter (T2-T3)

You are still guaranteed at least one epic fighter (T6)

You are still guaranteed at least one source of fortified/natural defense, swift/natural defense, arcane defense, magic damage, impact damage, and pierce damage. However, the definitions here are applied liberally–Elite Archer could be your only arcane defense, and Sand Badger could be your only impact damage.

Fighters are now more equally likely to be rolled (refactored roll system)

Mastermind rolls always gave you multiple tank options, but the same didn’t apply for DPS. We’re making this consistent, but also don’t want mastermind rolls to be too safe

ripe ivy
cursive parcel
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In this patch I already had 3x elite archer as only arcane unit - and I either had the choice of somehow trying to get elite archer with other units that synergize badly, or just play w/o arcane tank. Idk - I do also dislike the changes.

Not to mention the (leak) gold change and pack leader change. Very much not my patch.

ripe ivy
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A roll slickens had yesterday

worldly hornet
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exactly what @cursive parcel is saying here and @ripe ivy is saying in his post. the big problem is the arcane melee roll is missing VERY OFTEN. you DONT get wileshroom, gargoyle, casket, steed, badger or peewee in so many games. yes you get arcane range dps. but the important thing is, that the arcane unit has to be MELEE. also on the slickins roll here, his cheapest arcane is millenium - lol, and ofc its range. if i had photographed all my rolls in the past 50 games, id have much photos of similar rolls. happy that some people are agreeing with me, i really just want to make the game better, its so great. also i agree with the pack leader change, its terrible. how can you give a merc (u have to pay myth to get it) a bigger downside than upside? 15% damage increase for 18% increased damage taken? im aware that this could mathematically make sense if you calculate all sorts of stuff with other mercs, myth and so on. but the design just isnt good aswell. id much prefer the old pack leader back, and build a new merc for anti summoning like crab warlock.

cursive parcel
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The thing about pack leader is basically the improvement of scale, into both directions. Means that it can both be strong or weak, but in a situation where the enemy is very likely to leak anyways, the pack leader just significantly boosts the wave, which can be giga OP in terms of king damage.

Wave 12 has been a strong king breaker at all times, but the pack leader change made this even worse. I had a good hand full of games where I was stunned how little sometimes is enough to finish off the king on these waves.

And yeah, the lack of tanks is crucial. Already considered to just go play lock in sand badger to at least have "something" 🫠

Also idk if it's just me, but the change feels dominant to arcane. I'm always missing arcane, the rest (swift / fortified / natural) is present in most cases.

worldly hornet
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yes i agree, BUT a mercenary costs mythium, and you want to hire something good right? it shoudlnt be "random" or sometimes good sometimes bad. you can just calculate the old pack leader better and easier. and this game is already pretty difficult. dont need to make it harder for no good reason. and yes its always arcane melee units missing (wileshroom is dps but still counts as early tank)

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so basically they have to guarantee 2 different tanks not only 1. like arcane + 1 other.

peak cloud
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For me personally, this patch made the game a little less fun.

I'm not too keen on the roll changes, but especially the gold changes 1-4.

I disagree with the reason the rolls were changed. I think outside of the top 100 or so, most players just want a workable roll, and not have to worry about shifting etc. Most players aren't that advanced. I disagree that it makes the game more fun having to play around a bad roll, I think it's just frustrating and makes the game more RNG based.

I wish we'd stop messing around with balance (it'll never be perfect, and "good enough" is good enough) and focus on QoL features instead.

Anyway, no one cares what I think, but there you have it 😂

(PS revert duo penalty pls, ty 😄 )

echo flame
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"I disagree that it makes the game more fun having to play around a bad roll, I think it's just frustrating and makes the game more RNG based." I do agree with this statement though

worldly hornet
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yes

cursive parcel