DPS Melee getting more range than TANK

[dusk plume]

I think DPS melee need more range than tanks because regardless of how many tank you have, the chance your DPS melee gets caught in the crossfire is too high and destroys your entire build. (i mean like 110 range, not like 300 or so)

[plain fern]

Hello Korifee, I would suggest you to look at top games in game and see how the best ranked players build. If you copy those kind of builds for example the nightmare start, then you won't have this problem anymore

[dusk plume]

pathing issues and sends that even further make pathing more random then calculated IMO make even the best builds not reliable. But if you say you dont see an issue with that then i guess arguing more makes no sense 😄

[plain fern]

is your ign korifee?

[dusk plume]

yes

[plain fern]

allow me to show you my insane paint skills

I checked your builds and you're not really protecting your melee dps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmiykO-1Zrg here is a video that explains it too

[dusk plume]

yeah still, once my melee dps is in the mix there is a chance he will be caught since he has the same range as the tank

my sovereign died and half my tanks were alive

[shrewd mango]

It's better that people don't need to look into external guides for proper unit placement

giving melee dps some extra range alleviates a lot burden of knowledge, while lowering the "mid elo" skill expression a little

I think it's a very worthy trade, to make this game more new player friendly

[barren kraken]

Agreed

[hidden dragon]

Unit placement is a big part of increasing skill ceiling which makes people stay because it provides a path for improvement. Remove that it will be a big blow to what keeps people coming back to the game

[dusk plume]

again im not saying increase the range to 300 or or more, but all melee are at 100, maybe put it to 110 or so - i think the example pic i gave is not that bad placementwise and like i said, some of the devils lived and some of the boars lived but my sovereign died before and i had no DPS anymore.

[minor frost]

Typed out a ton to read it and realize it was a rant about PTR not being used for anything. Anyways, I think this could be worthwhile to have a small difference for new players to have bit of leniency. The change would need to be small enough to where builds you’d see in high elo wouldn’t adjust placements from what would be used now

[grave coral]

Giving melee dps units more range would also vastly nerf them in the early game, as it would be more difficult to accurately split tank.

As long as you have your melee carry units on the left wall behind all your tanks, it should be targeted last.

[dusk plume]

yeah as you can see on the pic it didnt happen for me

[tranquil haven]

When searching for a new target, enemy units will first look to all the nearby units. They will prioritize units that are built further up - as in, closer to the gate. Once there are no targets in range, they will move toward the closest target and then attack.

if you want your melee DPS to survive longest, place them behind your tanks.

If you want your off-tanks to be effective (like the regenerating mushroom or the skeleton beetles) then place them behind your main tanks.

[dusk plume]

didnt i do that in the pic i provided ?

[grave coral]

Did your boars live longer? If yes, its because the Sovreign got to the wave before they did. The consorts, and bucthers will always live longer than the sovreign. Gate spawns and shadow dancer spawns have some rng involved, and could live longer than the Sov.

[dusk plume]

i recreated it in sandbox (unfournetly u cant type in -wave 22, u have to go to 20 and then clear twice a little bit tidious) but my boars reach the wave BEFORE the sovreign and the sov died before the dread knight - im pretty sure the more i do it, different results will occur, but thats exactly my point why i want a little bit more range on MELEE DPS, so they get targeted after all the TANKS and not by chance, since every melee unit is in range of the wave

[woeful grove]

Its because there is always a bit of rng with a lot of spawns. And you kinda got a really good outcome. With your build, your Dread Knight should die before your Sovereign most of the time, what is horrible. DK is a dps unit and Sovereign is way more of a tank than dps. So it taking aggro befor your DK is actually really good for you.

[shrewd mango]

the point of OP is to make combat more predictable and readable from initial positioning, especially for "melee carries" not what outcome he got in any particular scenario

[tranquil haven]

This is a good idea and ideally the result that the OP is asking for should be realized, it's just a question of how to get there and which solution to apply

[dusk plume]

start with 105 range for dps and see where it goes from there - someone also said range can mess up some positioning in early game, which might be a chance, but with 101-105 range it might be minimal

[shrewd mango]

I mean we already did this with Anglers

[plain fern]

Yes its a good idea to dumb down the game

Then we are sure that nobody in current high elo wilk play again

Makes it easier for the rest

This was more for weow

[dusk plume]

what do you mean dumb down ? sorry, when u have the same setup/placement and 10 different outcomes due to chance, then there is no dumbing down

[plain fern]

There are no 10 different outcomes when you build normal

And players who think that dont know

When you leak to certain send its your problem and not the games

[shrewd mango]

why does it even matter for high elo who are doing the correct positioning anyway?

Is it really so bad that lower skilled players don't have to go through all the learning?

I know that it makes the game require less knowledge, but this game is already so heavy on non-deductible knowledge that lessening it a bit, does not make a huge difference for high elo

If we had started with melee dps having extra range, and somebody was asking to remove the extra range, I bet you guys would be against it.

[plain fern]

because for me (some nered) the game already become to easy and I'm looking for harder games to play.

legion was one of the games I liked becaus you had to count evertything

and that counting is gone

now I only have building left

[shrewd mango]

fair, if that's enjoyable for you

can't argue against that

[plain fern]

before season 5 was the best season from my pov

you didnt see estimated gold

or estimated myth

you all had to calcutlate it yourself

and thats the legion I fell i love with

because you had to use your brain

[shrewd mango]

you could just use pen and paper for all the counting, that's why I don't particularly like that part being in any game I play

[quartz atlas]

In case you're genuinely asking, it matters because there's plenty of cases where you want your dps to tank some of the wave. The entire early game for starters. If every tower marked as dps was given range (even +10) it would be a massive nerf in the early game.

Then there's any kind of regen / lifesteal. If your doppel isn't taking any damage midgame then the lifesteal is completely wasted until it's the last unit alive.

Building correctly in legion is all about splitting aggro across as many units as possible.