#More Balanced Match Making

83 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

candid bough
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Been seeing a lot of Extremely high level players que in classic just to dominate(most polite word I could think of) newer players or lower ranked players.

I don't mind loosing but when its not even a game to begin with and it's just a slaughter fest it's not fun its just toxicity at it's finest from the high ranking players. something needs to change such as

  1. They have Reduce income when matching against low level players even if it goes into the negative .
  2. Increase the Income to support the lower ranking players.
  3. Balance the match making so they can't even play against least 3-4 low ranking players.
  4. Ultimately one I don't agree with but mates have suggested it they can only match against player equal too or one less rank then them.
  5. Force them into Dual Build(I don't agree with this either just a suggestion I got.)
  6. Forced Lockout of Robo, Brute, Hermit, Saftey Mole, Pack Leader, Imp and other "Powerful Units" till wave 10

Open to other suggestions besides the typical Troll suggestions such as "just get good" or "learn to play"

I just think some sort of Balance besides increase income to offset the knowledge higher players have learned newer players are still learning and I agree there should be difficult games were u win or loose by the skin of your teeth or you just loose because the other team had the slight advantaged.

regal cape
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Not a troll suggestion but you know that classic doesnt have skillbased matchmaking? The playerbase just doesnt support some of your points. As far as I know there are only 3 to 4 teams that describe your problem

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There is a russian team I always dodge because they are giga tryhard vs new players

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So point 3 and 4 are sadly not possible otherwise the devs would already do it.

candid bough
regal cape
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that is the latest respond and just search for it

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it isn't possible sadly

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even if everyone it wants, its sadly not possible

candid bough
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Anything is possible with coding 😛

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theres already a system for point 2 a increase for the lower players might be better

ancient frigate
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I don’t mind fighting against 4 4000+ stack, but not with 3 <800 in my team.

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Bonus income doesn’t help here

regal cape
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you can't complain about matchmacking if there isn't any calculated

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if you want fair competitive games you should play 2v2

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classic is a 4fun mode

candid bough
regal cape
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well I never responded to your other points, but only to 2 and 3

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trust me if I tell you that isn't possible

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otherwise they would already implemented it

grand isle
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Giving bonus income or any other ingame advantages it's horrible design.
Matchmaking will be interesting but developers respond so many times that to implementing matchmaking need much higher player base.

Anyway, "Classic" it's a fun mode where everyone just income and chill. If you wanna playing competetive you should just try ranked instead.

Yes, it's not good answer but at this point devs can't do anything good like you say with "coding" because it's not coding issue. Only way to change "classic" situation it's increase player base in generally

ancient frigate
warped hollow
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Play Ranked as Toikan said idk what people do in classic no joke

uncut lodge
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My opinion is that it's a perspective issue.

New player enters the game. They play the tutorial. Let's assume they're at least passingly intelligent. They learn the bare bones basics fairly easily - build units to kill creep, something about workers to generate an economy. They probably get the gist of it, right?

Then they enter the screen to pick a mode, and they see the scary "RANKED MODE" in bold crimson flashing letters and immediately get intimidated into thinking they'll just suck the big one. Then they look over and see the very inviting, "hey mang, come chill in Classic mode, we got cool shoes bro, netflix and - I mean, income and chill, bro" and the decision is made.

But heaven FORBID if it happens to be a Saturday, because little does the newbie know, this is GUILD WAR day goshgumit and you're gonna get 4-stacked against guildies who've been playing for years.

It's a perspective issue. Nobody likes to feel like they're the one dragging others down. So you see "RANKED" and go "I don't belong there" when ironically, you should absolutely go there. Ranked is a lot more chill at lower elo, than Classic has been in several years.

I think some of the more recent patches are looking to change that, what with more Classic modes that shake up the meta when voted for. I don't think it's doing "enough" to fix the problem, but it's a step in the right direction.

ancient frigate
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I don’t like the response “just go rank mode”. This is a player experience that needs to be improved, and I believe there is ways to improve it other than the limit mentioned by developers about the queue size. The attitude of saying just go rank is bad for any game or real projects in my opinion.
Not everyone would take game as competitive activities. Some takes it as casual activities to relax and entertain. Rank should not be the only answer here. We are talking about extreme cases here which can be improved.

uncut lodge
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I agree it's not an ideal solution. However, generally speaking, this is a competitive game

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The goal of both Classic and Ranked, is to bring the opposing king's HP down to 0

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So yea, I do agree we can do more, or try harder, to make it better

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At the same time, how casual can a competitive game REALLY get?

ancient frigate
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Not in a match where you clearly know the chance of winning is very low just by looking at the loading screen.

uncut lodge
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To be frank, that's still a perspective issue. If you didn't have any information whatsoever in the loading screen, a 4-stack of GM's from a top-10 guild, is going to still crush 4 random newbies

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you'll just get to wave 14 or so without realizing it

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What my ideal situation would be, is having some way of preventing tryhards

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I just don't see how that is realistic, unfortunately

ancient frigate
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I know dodge game has become another option and is actually suggested by Julie.

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The point here is not the info in loading screen..

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You need to know the line up, but sitting in a slow dying game for 20min is not great.

uncut lodge
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I agree it's not great

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Not trying to argue otherwise

ancient frigate
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And no other option than dodging it, it’s bad.

uncut lodge
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There are other options, though. You just dismiss them because you don't feel they're compelling or valid

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I promise you, even as a Gold elo myself currently, the ONLY way I ever get matched in Ranked against GM's, is if they're on some sort of smurf account

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I get the argument you're really trying to make here. We need a "safe place" for people who don't like ranked

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and I agree with that

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I'm just trying to say that this has been discussed before, and I just don't see a solution at this present time, that would go "far enough" and is also realistically going to get implemented

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now, maybe something happens tomorrow (I'm not a dev after all) and I'm proven wrong. Maybe someone else comes up with a great idea

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discussion is still important

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But like, if the ultimate aim is to not get crushed by a high elo, playing where they literally cannot get matched against you, will achieve that aim

ancient frigate
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Most match making in classics is actually fine, and enjoyable, except when 4 4000 stack involved. This is when the balance is broken.

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But you have to give up classics mode.

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This is not a solution

uncut lodge
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Just want to say you seem to type quickly on mobile. I've never been able to do that

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I'm too old, I keep using my index fingers to point at the letters

ancient frigate
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I am on my tablet

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I am old too. Not young and bold blood who enjoys the exiting ranked mode, or take great challenge to fight 4 top 10 stack with 3 newbiesTommyIsSus

uncut lodge
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Fair enough. idk, I hear you, and I agree with the essence of what you're saying

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Personally, if I know I'm not going to be able to change something I try to at least change how I react to it

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that's really all I'm trying to say

ancient frigate
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Yeh I play ranked mode to get the skin, then classics most of time and dodge games when needed, I am fine but just don’t think it’s an appropriate solution and more can be done, that’s it. And also express that I am not impressed with the go rank solution as it’s not the suitable answer.

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Don’t really think I can change anything though.

uncut lodge
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I know the devs are aware this is a hot button issue. I can tell you that much, they do read these suggestions on the regular. They just can't reply to all of them, though I know Jules would secretly love to

ancient frigate
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I see that and really appreciate that. That’s why I would try to involve in these discussions.

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Otherwise it’s no point spending time and effort you know.

uncut lodge
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True that. It's what I detest so much about Blizz forums these days. Blizzard doesn't view their forums as a means of communication between them and players. They view it as between players only

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+1 for the small indie team, they still have their heart in the game

candid bough
sterile hull
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the problem with bonus income is that a lot of people will just start making smurf accounts, like they already do. then you play against pros with low rank who get bonus income and have no chance at all. that way you just shift the problem in the other direction.. the only real solution is (even tho you dont like to hear it) is to get better.

patent ingot
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that's not really a solution, not everyone wants to or can get significantly better.
bonus income is a pretty good solution though obviously not perfect and has it's cons too.

uncut lodge
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Handicap systems always have the inherent risk of sandbagging or otherwise being inaccurate for whatever reason. I shoot 8-ball pool at an in-house league in my area every week, if someone's a 4 going up against a 5, they get a 1 ball spot. A "good/strong" 4 will learn to strategize, and use that free ball to their advantage (tie up an opponent's ball with it). A mediocre to weak 4 (someone who "deserves" the lower skill designation) won't be able to capitalize on that as effectively though, even if they theoretically understand what they "should/could" be doing.

That's just part of a competitive environment. It's not a perfect solution and should never be the ONLY solution. But it's still A solution, that is both viable, and time-tested, and makes it hardER for high ranks to roflstomp

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The reason I'm so big on viewing it as a "perspective" issue is that part of me doesn't WANT to roflstomp newbies. That's why I don't smurf. I play on my account. But obviously, there are those who just want the easy wins

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You can't really convince someone with that mindset, of "I want to easily win over half the time" that ANY sort of balancing act that doesn't favor them, is worthy

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Not accusing anyone in here, btw - just saying in general. There's a reason we have even what little systems we DO have

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More needs to be done though, I think that part is crystal clear

patent ingot
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If ppl want this game to do the best it can, it needs to cater to new players, and that means you need to have 1. reasonably short que times 2. the new player should at least be able to hang on and not get destroyed and their economy ruined by making a few mistakes, even if they realistically have 0 chance of winning

If you want best for the game (AS IT EXISTS NOW) with limited player base, you definitely want some handicap system, even if it ends up being exploited a little bit. Whether bonus income is THE BEST handicap system or if the income provided is too much or is insufficient is a different debate.

candid bough
# uncut lodge Handicap systems always have the inherent risk of sandbagging or otherwise being...

that's a 1v1 situation tho new players don't have time and arn't experienced enough to have those level of understandings yet there just gonna go this games shit and uninstall and steam refund. because new players arn't focused on the whole game there focused on oh whats this unit do and whats that unit do what combos are good they have to cram all there limited knowledge with the pressure into 30 seconds or less every wave so what seams slow to us its them running away from a boulder about to crush them

twilit horizon
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Good tutorials can easily solve this

patent ingot
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no it can't, there's only so much new players are willing to spend on playing tutorials and so much they can learn in a single sitting
even if you include every necessary detail, they will not remember most of it, they won't have the necessary experience and familiarity to act on what they learned either

grand isle
patent ingot
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most new players don't make the connection between ranked and not getting destroyed. Also games generally speaking need casual game mode even more than ranked to be successful

grand isle
patent ingot
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I don't find that particularly good solution, but it's the best we can do atm

wanton sorrel
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Or just make one great pve mode like bloonsTD everyone gangsta

grave spindle