I don't have a strong opinion in the matter, but I'd like to bring up for discussion the choice to display the players nationality when entering the game. What's the intended benefits of this? Given how the world is these days and from what I've seen in game it seems to breed disagreement/hostility more than anything positive, but maybe I'm missing something?
#Nationality flag
finite jackal
hidden nest
Yea i brought up this concern a while ago, i think it should be optional to display flags. But seemed like it wasn't something that the devs could prioritize. (Even though i think they really should!!)
The main argument for the flags is that supposedly it's mostly a positive thing, though i think that's only true for higher elo where most ppl know each other.
Here is the a older thread about this topic: #1072636205063209010 message
finite jackal
Ah, didnt find the previous post, thanks! 🙂
hidden nest
Ah, didnt find the previous post, thanks! 🙂
No worries, it's always good to bring up stuff like this anyway 🙂
obtuse nymph
I can't seem to get the flag changed to the USA flag since I'm playing from the USA... instead it's Netherlands on mine
hollow mist
You can always choose to remove flags on your own client (only affecting you: which, I know isn't a solution but if everyone did it...) with the following css tweak: .flag-icon { opacity: 0; }
tawdry ravine
I like flags. A couple of times I met people from countries that I had not even heard of before. It's cool to realize that this game is played by people from all over the world.
It may not be such a bad idea to make the option to show a flag, but I ask the developers not to remove the flags completely.
hollow mist
I like flags. A couple of times I met people from countries that I had not even ...
They answered both of those concerns in the previous topic:
- They have no intention of removing the flags.
- It's too difficult to make it optional/configurable.
the decision was that the flags will stay, no matter what and making them changeable/overrideable is very complex from a technical perspective
And additionally commented regarding privacy concerns:
- If you're concerned about your country being published in an online game use a VPN. If you don't like the country it shows just switch to a different country.
- You agreed to the collection and publishing of your User Content via the ToS ("User Content" includes player precise/imprecise location data), in accordance with the Privacy Policy (which doesn't appear to exist). Incidentally, the ToS also forbids the use of VPN. 🙄 🤷
rapid canyon
flags are nice, they wiggle when windy
viral fossil
I think the main idea behind the flags was to determine if you can use your native language vs english to communicate. I agree that there should be an option to hide flags but unfortunately it is a bit complicated
the ToS also forbids the use of VPN. 🙄 🤷
I think you will get into more trouble with steam for using a VPN (at least when making purchases outside of your original country) than with us tbh. I don't see any reason why we should forbid using a VPN to hide your original location
finite jackal
I think the main idea behind the flags was to determine if you can use your nati...
How often does this happen for non-english countries tho?
My guess is that the only country with the playerbase to make it anything resembling a regular occurance is Russia, and I greatly doubt most of them find that it adds a positive experience (definitely the nationality getting the most hate)
tawdry ravine
@finite jackal Are you Russian?
I, as a Russian, and as the head of the Russian-speaking guild, want to say that I don’t know a single Russian who would like the flag to be removed. If you are Russian, you will be the first.
But it will be great if some players, such as Putler, are banned from writing to the general chat.
In fact, there are very few racists in this game. It only takes a little moderation of the chat, and the hatred will almost completely disappear.
hollow mist
Players with Russian flags are not the only players who have flag-based negative experiences.
finite jackal
<@192987703451713538> Are you Russian?
I, as a Russian, and as the head of the ...
I'm not a Russian no, simply noting that you're the nationality that receives the most hate. What positivity is the flag adding for you, is it the language indicator, nationalism or something else?
tawdry ravine
I'm not a Russian no, simply noting that you're the nationality that receives th...
A bit of everything
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The most important thing is the indicator of language. Many players from the CIS do not speak English well, and I am one of them. If I see a Russian or Belarusian as an ally, I know that I can quickly convey info to him and not waste time writing a text in English. And he will definitely understand me.
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Self-identification is also important. To answer this question, I need to write a fairly large text, but if as short as possible, then I am not ashamed that I am Russian, and I will not hide it and impersonate someone else for the sake of profit. If the payback for this is additional hatred directed at me, then "this is the way".
By the way, there is a player with the US flag in my guild, but he is Russian, lives in Moscow and does not use a VPN. This is some kind of bug. According to his own words, he is treated better in the game now than before the bug, but he still wants his flag back.
- I just like to see that people from all over the world are here.
finite jackal
A bit of everything
1. The most important thing is the indicator of language. Ma...
I mean, 1.) is the one reason I see for flags, but couldnt that just be solved better by asking? While nationality is an indicator it's not providing certain information on languages.
2.) Seems to be some form of nationalistic pride, which you by all means can have but I don't see much reason for a game to promote it.
3.) Sure, but real minor.
tawdry ravine
I mean, 1.) is the one reason I see for flags, but couldnt that just be solved b...
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In personal correspondence there is an opportunity to ask. During the game - it is not convenient and takes extra time. And in general, it will be strange if a non-English-speaking player asks everyone in a row if they speak his language.
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I wouldn't call it pride. Well, at least the translation of this word in our language is different from what I had in mind. But it doesn't matter. The important thing is that there are players who like to see the flag of their own and other countries. I think this reason is enough. But if there are more players who don't like flags, then I agree that the flags should be removed. It will be fair
finite jackal
1. In personal correspondence there is an opportunity to ask. During the game - ...
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Idk, there's initial prep time every game.
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I mean, you speak as if not showcasing it would be mean some sort of shame/cowardice - clearly a form of nationalism to me. I also dont think a guild specifically catering to a nationality necessarily gives a fair view - if you don't appreciate being identified as a certain nationality you obviously don't join a guild dedicated to it. I've spoken to multiple russians who don't want to identify as such online, but I'm not so sure they'd share that opinion to a nationalist.
hollow mist
As discussed in the previous thread:
- If the issue is language identification: An optional language indicator icon could be selected by players who want to indicate their prefered language. The location a player connects from does not necessarily indicate the language they understand/speak.
- If the issue is nationalism: An optional nationalist indicator icon could be selected by players who want to demonstrate their patriotism.
- If the issue is seeing where people are connecting from: This is the internet in 2023. It isn't anyone's business where a person exists in the real world. We're all just digital entities here. Racism, sexism, nationalism, and other real-world 'isms' don't naturally exist here because that information is not a part of our digital identities unless we manually add them.
- Oh, and ofc: Hiding these flags is a 1-liner css. Not exactly breaking the bank in regards to complexity. Properly disabling is just omiting that information from being sent to clients.
tawdry ravine
1. Idk, there's initial prep time every game.
2. I mean, you speak as if not sh...
- And you can also wash it by hand, and not in a washing machine, but it's less convenient.
- If I have to remove the flag because of public discontent, then yes, it feels like a defeat. If it is removed for another reason and for everyone, then it will not hurt my feelings in any way. I said all this as an objection to the fact that the Russians may be uncomfortable because of the presence of the flag. As a person of this nationality, I do not agree with this. But of course there may be people with a different opinion. All of them can speak.
That's why there are discussions, so that everyone can express their opinion.
PS: There are representatives of 11 countries in my guild. We choose people with the ability to communicate freely in the voice channel, and not by skin color or eye shape. Almost all of them speak Russian, but only about half or a little more are Russian by nationality.
@hollow mist Icons with languages are a good alternative. Even without flags. By the way, I also suggested something similar, but for guilds. So that guild leaders have the opportunity to set an icon or icons of languages in which communication within the guild is possible. This would make it easier to find the right guild. If a certain language matters to a person.