Chaos

[fierce slate]

i was thinking of a way to "balance" this mastermind. it may not be the most winning mastermind or even considered the most op but it is annoying to play against. i have had alot of ppl bring up in multiple streams that they have been able to climb up to 300-500 elo just bc they swapped to this mastermind. the only thing i can think of to kind of lower the RNG of getting the perfect unit for the perfect wave is that maybe instead of it rerolling every wave it reolls maybe every 3-5 waves getting max 20 rerolls a game if the game goes to wave 21 is kind of op. you see alot of overbuild and starve with this mastermind bc you can keep building a whole mixture of different units to cover yours and your mates weak waves. i'd even be open to the idea of maybe it rerolling every other wave? i see alot of complaints from all elos about this mastermind and wondering what they could have done in the game they lost to it. sometimes the rerolls they get are just so good there isnt anything you can do to beat it.

[dull wren]

People should stop with excuses. If it's not broken on highest ELO it's probably not broken at your ELO

With Pawn shop it becomes really strong. Drachir almost always play it when pawn shop in game

[fierce slate]

ah you must be someone who plays it lol

[tame bison]

its not broken, its a bit unfun to play against

[fierce slate]

i said it was somewhat op in longer games but didnt call it broken

[fierce slate]

you cant campare everything to the top .01% of the games player base. yes we are the biggest supports of the game but to retain players you have to listen to lower elo too

[dull wren]

I don't even know what ppl play usually don't care too much other than Fiesta

Also who think it's OP they can always play it and figure out it's not as good as they think

it's pretty normal when i started playing i though castle was OP played it a little bit and stopped liking it

[soft bolt]

I havent seen the chaos complaints that you speak of, and regardless a few vocal opinions obviously doesn't trump stats. If the devs notice that chaos has an absurd win ratio at most player levels they should obviously tweak it, but I can't imagine that being the case.

A player claiming that they gained 300-500 elo just from changing mastermind to chaos, and nothing else, is simply lying.

[gentle flare]

It could be possible to gain that much elo. But as you said with a minority of vocal players, it shouldn't be a indicator of chaos needing a nerf. If you see how my teammate plays with fiesta, I'm pretty sure he could win 300 elo when playing anything else than fiesta 😄

[soft bolt]

Honestly if you play exactly the same (aka not trying to leak/largely ignoring fiesta) with fiesta and chaos I don't think it ends up at 300-500.

If you play a poor strategy and overleak due to trying (and failing) to maximize fiesta, and then switch to starving with chaos, sure - but it's your gameplay change and not the actual mastermind causing it.

[daring badge]

Never really felt like Chaos was performing well. In my experience Chaos players are easiest to leak.

Chaos players tend to have their value spread out across more units, which leaves them vulnerable in mid-late game, also weak to Centaur, Witch.

[real iris]

Nah dude, I had phenomenal results first switching to Hybrid, and later learned to play Chaos (simply because you can't play Hybrid in ranked)

Talking about a 500pt gap

[soft bolt]

And I'm calling bs. I think you're lying or incorrectly attributing other improvements during that time to the mastermind. No way chaos alone made you perform at a 500 higher rating.

[real iris]

it wasn't overnight if that's what you have in your head, no, but it helps you learn the game so much

[soft bolt]

That's different from the mastermind overperforming to that extent

Like, if you go play greed now do you think you'll lose anywhere near 500 rating?

[real iris]

No, I keep up with 1900 players, while i play greed. But not a few seasons ago, when i first picked up chaos. I was hard 1300s

[soft bolt]

So chaos isn't overperforming by 300-500 rating, which was the premise of the suggestion starter

That it's a good learning tool doesn't make it imbalanced/broken

[real iris]

"i have had alot of ppl bring up in multiple streams that they have been able to climb up to 300-500"

nothing to do with performing at a rating 500pts higher than where you belong

i just dont think you can read

[soft bolt]

I think you fail to see the context that statement is made in

The premise for the suggestion isn't that chaos is a good teaching tool (how could that possibly be an argument for the mastermind needing tweaking?), it's that it should be changed/nerfed due to its power/annoyance to face.

[real iris]

OP writes that it isn't the most winning or considered the most op. His idea is that its because of RNG. It isn't RNG. He's wrong in the context he presents. It is because it helps develop a player's understanding of unit combinations

really, the more i think about it, i would say my overall understanding of the games fundamentals, were fleshed out and tempered, between forcing myself to learn both hybrid and chaos. And I really do put emphasis and hybrid helping me too, i don't attribute it all to chaos (but hybrid can be OP in its own ways)

[shadow needle]

so you admit, you learned the game

maybe that's how you gained 500pts?

I improved significantly (2000 => 2400) from playing YOLO in classic a shitload, and being forced to play units and combinatioons I'd usually avoid

so I guess YOLO is OP too

[real iris]

does "able to climb up to 300-500" need explaining to you too?

[shadow needle]

you chimed into a thread in which OP claims people are "able to climb up to 300-500 elo just bc they swapped to this mastermind" (Chaos) and claimed you had great results switching to hybrid and then chaos "Talking about a 500pt gap"

does the concept of context need explaining to you?

[real iris]

🙄

[shadow needle]

fantastic, glad we cleared that up

so we all agree that chaos isn't op, but it's an excellent mastermind to learn on