undone portal
Given the people complaining about being forced to autosend, I think any change made has to allow saving for those who want it
it can be bad though because most players dont even look at the ratios of income to mythium
you could literally cut income on brute from 15 down to like 6 and there are still a decent number of players that would smash that brute button
actually given that outcry, a reasonable question to ask would be "is there a problem?" When I say is there a problem, I mean something demonstrable beyond the 5 (myself included) people that whine about it. What's wrong with long saves and big sends after 4 waves? How can we prove that this is bad for the game?
hazy kelp
-Remove gold rush
-Increase duo penalty
-Increase king HP/king spell strength
-Decrease income from power mercs
-Increase bonus income/shift some of the bonus income to the midgame (castle style)
undone portal
What if I'm a barbarian from outside the city walls intent on ruining classic for you and I say "income games are bad for the game"
what could you possibly say that would prove me wrong?
hazy kelp
Id say that being intent on ruining classic for me is a pretty bad argument and not what the devs intend the gamemode to be
undone portal
that's not the point, I'm saying what if there once again proves to be a silent majority that wants it to be more sweaty and tryhard? You'd have no argument against what their perspective is other than "I want it to be this other way"
hazy kelp
Just because a majority thinks something, which I doubt is the case here, doesn't make it impossible to argue against it. I dont see any silent majority and you are completely oblivious if you're saying that the only argument is "I want it my way".
Im fine with having a proper discussion about what classic is 'supposed' to be, but then at least come up some thought out argument instead of just diluting and digressing the thread
undone portal
I just haven't heard what that argument is that's all
perhaps I've missed it
all I really know for sure is when autosend was enabled the first time for everyone in classic until wave 15, all we heard were endless complaints from the community
silent up until that point, they all come out of the woodwork to bitch about how they can't turtle a flower player on 2
as a result, autosend was disabled and made optional, and classic slowly became what it is today
I don't like it but I recognize that there are a lot of people that want this. Who the hell am I to say no?
hazy kelp
You are completely unaware of outcry about the gold rush changes to classic is what you are saying?
hazy kelp
But you still havent heard any argument?
undone portal
no, just people expressing their desire for classic to return to the old days
people tired of starving
but not having any reason other than "I don't like it"
this includes me
hazy kelp
How can you not like it without having a reason for not liking it
undone portal
same with a lot of things. I like K-pop, I hate country. There doesn't have to be a reason, it's just a preference
quartz rover
Encouraging auto-sending with gold is a great idea. This could be awsome. How would you handle having Auto on, but sending manually Power mercs? Does that qualify for the gold bonus?
hazy kelp
Sure everyone has tastes and preferences for music and games to a certain extent. I think its fair to say that this extends beyond that though. Gold rush has made classic a lot more 'shallow', its almost not possible to outscale tryhards through income sending anymore. There is no more balance at all. Its not fun for newer players that are getting stomped by 4stacks, its not fun for ranked players that want to take a break from the competitiveness.
Surely its a wrong conlusion to say that the devs want classic to be a gamemode only enjoyable for people that want to starve and tryhard on people in the midgame - thus there is a problem
undone portal
Maybe it's fair that balancing the game (whether classic or ranked) means that income/scale should be correct about as often as longsaving is
I definitely agree with the reducing income from power mercs more
cosmic nimbus
(If we're being realistic though, it isn't going to change a lot even with option 3 because it would still be worthwhile to save a few waves and then just overwhelm with well chosen income sends.)
Gold Rush is probably the biggest "issue" currently because it basically allows starving to not be punishing. Unless both team are saving on the other, you can easily pull off those huge saves 4-5 waves w/o sacrificing much on worker count because of the gold rush.
willow cradle
I think that encouraging income mercs is a good idea. I don't like the idea of it being entirely through the auto-send system, though. I get that it might sound a little "tryhard", but I think being able to avoid sending only drakes, or being able to send 3 snails instead of a fiend (based on your enemy comp) should be treated as equivalent to having auto toggled on.
copper umbra
mabye if you were given a choice between saving (no added inc) and forced auto send with bonus inc at the start of thr game, this would allow the sweats to sweat, and others to build up and push lesiurly..
cosmic nimbus
I would say that the "fix" for the current starve in Classic would be if you don't send as much as possible each wave, you lose gold rush money if they're intent on keeping Gold Rush a thing.
wheat heron
maybe you could implement a vote when you get in to the classic game for Forced auto send ON or OFF. dnno how that will work out cause some will be mad some will be happy every game but at least you know what to expect in that game, instead of sudden suprises and sudden starves.
cosmic nimbus
Don't go asking for mod features in the standalone game.
lost folio
all in all gold rush did the opposite of what it supposed to do. I think on an event like we had people just income and chill more, but in classic they kind of abuse the system to long save
cosmic nimbus
I wouldn't say reverse gold rush. I just think not giving them the gold rush money would fix it all. If auto is off before turn change, no extra money. Not a big deal for the first 10 waves, starts hurting after that, and will be deadly to these 3-5 wave savers in the late game.
Alternatively you could really go a hardcore route with it where saving would go even more wonky but a failed save would GG them and that's just make power mercs = 0 income in Classic.
lost folio
I see what you say, but gold rush overall is not really something I like. When it was in the patch notes I was really happy, but now its implemented I kind off get bored? If you know what I mean
I see it more as an event like feature, instead of something that should be implemented forever
vagrant seal
bonus income to the max
wheat heron
most of my experience the guys who start starving first kinda wins if people do it at the same time so for me personally it ruins alot of games for me cause when it happens most of the time you are 2 late to respond to it (people will keep pushing workers and autosend) so you cant push workers cause you gotta hold + enemy will just outscale even if you were ahead.
cosmic nimbus
I said it when it first hit the notes that these changes were going to do nothing to help newer people and just allow those that could scale to scale harder. I was only slightly wrong in that the scalers can save harder.
lost folio
most of my experience the guys who start starving first kinda wins if people do ...
buffing king late game will help this
I think that a king shouldn't be in one shot range in Classic
wheat heron
maybe but wont they get lots of gold from the king + they hold the autosend
cosmic nimbus
The biggest thing that I see "wrong" in tryharding Classic is thinking you need King damage to make a send worthwhile. People rarely just send on their optimal waves to send.
Like if they're saving 12, he's weak 14, but you know they're gonna go 15 on you. Nothing wrong with turning that auto off and punishing that save and getting your team the extra gold to defend with from that leak.
lost folio
also not to pat myself on the shoulders, but if they tryhard vs me for 2 waves I mostly hold after or only leak like the sends. Problem is the saves vs new players
wheat heron
ok so imagine toikan
we play together
you can hold cause they save
but i leak cause im bad and just autosend
cosmic nimbus
And this is totally the wrong place for this but I'm going to call him out. When it comes to Classic players, Mannix can successfully bait/predict and shift the best out of any I've played with.
wheat heron
so you cant push workers + long wave + they get more money i get more behind so i start leaking alot and you need to hold more and more
wont you get a snowball effect for them
(i can be wrong i am bad at the game)
lost folio
š
lost folio
so you cant push workers + long wave + they get more money i get more behind so ...
no, what I mean is. What I tried to say is, long saves won't be worth in classic if everyone had the same skill level. But you always have worse players in the lobby that make the long saves worth
if we 4-stack with good players, we barely die before 21
even if they tryhard like madmens
we just semi-afk 4x fiesta gaming š
lost folio
I sometimes too
wheat heron
so even if have the game of my life i cant hold or scale all of it
lost folio
then I also just income and chill š
wheat heron
and then i get to games that are way above my lvl and then i am the one who hold the others back
thats 2 games ruined for most people
lost folio
well, if experienced players get angry on new players in classic is kind of weird no?
I never thought this bad player ruined my classic game
wheat heron
nah if you know hes new its different
but i have 300 + hours
and i just wanna chill in classic
vagrant seal
aren't u at work?
lost folio
I dont mind but I will send you a dm
wheat heron
teach me senpai
minor briar
Remove bonus income and replace it with less gold lost from leaks, or increased king hp.
As soon as you send a power merc or skip a wave - lose gold rush.
mossy cypress
Make it so every time you save your opponent gets the gold value as if you had sent all snails and they killed those snails. AKA starving is only for ranked 2v2 instead of ranked 4v4
gusty pike
RANK 1 Classic player here:
1.Remove 4v4 fake ranks (if there is nothing to win, people are less interested into tryharding)
2nd: Fix bonus income!!!! ( yes its nescessary, but you canāt tell me itās fair when unboosted teammates have to play vs boosted players. In addition those kind auf players already played a couple of thousands games and DONT need boost- itās just legit bullishit. There should be a limit how you get bonus income (2000 classic elo and or 1000+ games)
3rd goldrush is great and helps a lot for great dynamic gameplay
4. autosend. Autosend is another great option and most of player are interested into teamplay in classic. But maybe you can combine goldrush with autosend like a bonus/candy for people that like to play w21+ games.
And pls fix lock in cross dual lane. Yes it should be playable but comeone lock in aoe/hades is just cancer to play for everyone for free.
Dual lane only playable without lock in mm option pls
All in all Ranks/Elo in classic are not needed and bonus income should be limited on very unexperienced player (for everyone and not only on the enemy lanes) and no bonus income for people which played a decent amount of games or peaked 2000/2200 classic elo
Balancing for everyone and not only for east or west team š«¶
cosmic nimbus
Just convert ranked mode back into 4v4 for all the Try Hards like was promised to happen when the playerbase recovered and it's back to peak performance of where it had been before the fall to change it to 2v2ā¤ļø
unique spear
For the ppl that say that silent majority is not voicing their opinion.
It's a common phenomena that people who are content with what they have, tend to not complain or seek to give feedback.
Gold rush mostly accomplishes what it's supposed to > make sure players don't get left behind in higher skill cap games.
If starving is too powerful in classic, nerf power mercs by adjusting cost, or some other way.
cosmic nimbus
I'd be curious to see the backend stats, like are Classic queue times higher or lower in Jan than they were in Dec. I think that's all the data you'd need to see to know whether or not Gold Rush is healthy for the game. Because if it's averaged higher, then less people are playing it. I can't imagine that they'd be have targeted not one but two different threads (here and reddit) devoted to Classic Changes if they there wasn't some hard data supporting that things aren't going as smoothly this season for Classic.
unique spear
I mean, most active community members here think classic change was bad, I would be surprised if that alone wasn't reason enough to look into tuning classic. Not like they're talking about reverting gold rush you know
wise valley
Thanks for the voting and feedback, everyone. This is a difficult topic because the player base is split on how classic is supposed to be played, with some enjoying it as a ranked-lite "anything goes" mode and others preferring it as a more casual "income and scale" mode. Friendly reminder that not all players are in Discord, so what might be overwhelmingly popular here isn't always preferred by other players. For example, in Discord, 90% voted in favor of forcing or encouraging autosend in classic. On reddit, only 47% did.
The good news is that the team and I came up with an idea that I believe the vast majority of players will like. Can't give more details right now, but hang tight š
gusty pike
Thank you Jules!
cosmic nimbus
Thereās zero chance Iād give a Reddit poll any real merit without fine tooth combing through the votes. Itās probably the easiest way to bot / spam results with. Polls should be done on steam so you can tell itās actual customers with the game doing the voting on issues and just share links pointing people to it in the future.
rocky pawn
Make income sending not viable or force it. Atm there are 2 types of players about it, 1 of them will stop playing (classic)
and u need players
zealous yacht
4ļøā£ is the best option out of them.
Perhaps a scaling system applied to bonus gold from enemy mercs killed so every extra wave saved increases the income from clearing the big send (I.E 5% increase on mercs/wave saved). That would provide bigger booms post starve
cosmic nimbus
Maybe. I donāt have the data on it but I know the people I tend to play with have played less and less and less this patch because this isnāt the experience they want from Classic.
zealous yacht
There's also the tried and true of having a classic ranked and a classic classic lol. That requires too many players from my assumption
zealous yacht
Maybe. I donāt have the data on it but I know the people I tend to play with hav...
Tbf I've been enjoying classic more than ever
cosmic nimbus
If everyone was on the same page sure.
If ranked was 4v4 again like it was promised to change back to and still hasnāt, Iād probably play ranked 90% of the time
If you enjoy whatās going on in classic right nowā¦ you enjoy pug stomping people and that speaks to you tbh
unique spear
would assume that the lower rated player is the more likely they are to like new classic
and opposite for the higher rating you go
zealous yacht
Personally I just prefer playing in a squad over playing in a duo. Never have really enjoyed duo play, that's my preference
true wharf
Forget balancing I think the #1 problem is having ranks which incentivizes players at every level to behave differently. Maybe 4v4 should be its own ranked mode and unranked/casual should limit party size to 2 and would throw players into 2v2 or 4v4 matches to help with queue times.
mossy cypress
Maybe a strict āno parties of 3 or 4 in my gameā check box
gusty pike
Guys we already hat party elo limits - and it didnāt work š
true wharf
Guys we already hat party elo limits - and it didnāt work š
Huh what do you mean?
analog depot
4v4 unit battle after bosswaves
hexed canyon
I like the idea of encouraging auto via extra gold but, Id like to see punishments for pressing the w key if so
There are outlier builds like steed funneling, aoe spam and pota where the units are so bi-polar you have to pressure or youll watch the player have 100 workers by r18
zealous yacht
There are outlier builds like steed funneling, aoe spam and pota where the units...
Yessir, that's more of my fear for just increasing gold. It makes the game balance a lot harder
cosmic nimbus
All of this just highlights how technically imbalanced things are to begin with when it comes to what you roll.
Thereās also plenty of builds in Classic now that can crack 100 workers by 17 if they arenāt being starved.
Honestly the current state just reminds me of about 14 months ago or so when 18 got itās nerf. Everyone just pushed, then got conservative around 14 and saved till 18 for GG
Which we didnāt want that then, but for some reason just circled back to it a year later.
celest summit
Hello, everyone š I've played both try hard sides and long classic rides. I've won on on wave 6 and on wave 24. The gold rush idea is not but for those experienced in the game, they really do abuse it for snow-balling. On the other hand when people "try hard" win before a certain wave. Some people don't have fun. But not everyone likes a super long game.
celest summit
You can't please everyone but I don't believe forcing super long games all the time would be healthy and joyful. It eliminates lost of divers play and early fun that some of us enjoy.
The bigger focus I take from personal experience is the experience of players.
I'd say trying out something new.
Now that the king is less likely to die on earlier waves do to the new changes. (good job by the way, Ogres on 6 was 85% win-rate)
We could try increase to money gain when king takes damage and less when the mercs/waves are killed (after leak).
Therefore sending and full breaking is worth while but those who build and go long game, don't get punished if they defend for their ally and stop the full leak. (resulting in less bonus gold for the enemy who sent) 
Any questions with what I wrote ill try to clear up, sometimes i miss things. š
cosmic nimbus
If only there was a game mode whoās entire concept was centered around breaking the enemy as early, often, and hard as possible and meant to be competitive where it only puts people in similar brackets up against each other.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who is okay with the current status of Classic, tends to party play, and has a greater than 60% win rate simply does not care about getting a good game or theyād also be up in arms over the current status of Classic. There are so few games that are actually close because the skill gaps tend to just be entirely too much.
celest summit
4v4 allows to play with bigger groups of friends without wasting and destroying your rank. having an early win doesn't just mean ''try hard''. Just makes all the games diverse.
cosmic nimbus
Yeah but thereās 4 other players in that game than just you and your friends. And getting ROFL stomped by a premade is no fun for them.
celest summit
not everyone has the same opinion as you do. I;ve played with people who didnt complain and others who do
cosmic nimbus
And like I said, if youāre okay with this iteration of Classic, you donāt actually want good games to begin with.
The way it is now it either needs changed in general so itās less sweaty or the matchmaking needs to be tightened up much closer to ranked.
And youāre right. Iām just one person, with I think last I checked something like a 75-80% win rate in both ranked and Classic and am just opting out of playing this season at all at this rate unless a very small list of people ask me to come play with them. I want either chill games or competitive games and I canāt get either one so this game has nothing to actually offer me at this time.
gusty pike
4v4 allows to play with bigger groups of friends without wasting and destroying ...
100% false
gusty pike
You can't please everyone but I don't believe forcing super long games all the t...
Also not true
1st off all classic was always funnier with high worker games and w21+ games. If you stack as high āeloā squad you need exactly 80% Winrate to stay at your rank. After another party punishment and in that case in creasing bonus income again, itās literally impossible to āprofitā as 3 or 4 people squad
Funmode (not funnier*)
Good 4v4 was like a race who can hit most worker/ most value/ w21+++ waves. However it has ended.
I literally hated squads last season, and now Iād rather play with 3 premates than duo with 2random mates. Why? Bcse it sucks every game those lower rated guys beeing pushed to death pre wave15 by higher rated enemies with bonus income, and only punishing squads again (increased party elo again) canāt be the answer for good balancing
It would definitely help a lot if ranks are removed and bonus income becomes smart balancing (limited on games/ peak elo ranked and actual classic elo)
celest summit
I can agree with the No rank system for classic. and that the bonus income can get crazy.
But i still say, (if you read my beginning for ideas of improvement) that the kill damage gold and merc bonus after leaking could be twick for weak save sends and breaking save sends.
balmy atlas
An odd idea just come to my head : Why not let 4 players both build in one super huge lane and against one AI with different perks/abilities. This will solve all classic issues and everyone becomes happy again.
cosmic nimbus
First theyāre have to figure out how to actually make a difficulty scaling AI that I can go to 21+ without cheating.
graceful tree
remove the mmr on classic , thats all im asking
hexed canyon
Problem with no classic mmr is veterans beat up newbies even more often
Everytime I see a plat/purple sending into a black/bronze the black/bronze gets obliterated unless they're in a party and they're a smurf
unique spear
Everytime I see a plat/purple sending into a black/bronze the black/bronze gets ...
I think with no classic mmr, ppl just mean no visible mmr. Almost all games use mmr even for casual modes, it's just hidden and less strict than ranked.
wise valley
Friendly reminder that we have some big classic changes coming soon.
///
Regarding visible classic ranks, the reason we added them was to reassure players that the matchmaker forms teams based on a hidden classic Elo. Before classic ranks, players would look at ranked borders and be deceived into thinking the teams were unfair... when in reality, the player with no ranked border on your team was the highest Elo classic player in the game. In hindsight, we probably should have just removed ranked borders from the classic loading screen to solve this problem.
Pros of classic ranks
Cons of classic ranks
We did a vote about it on reddit, and it was tied 90-90: https://imgur.com/a/9yqsTWb
The upcoming big classic changes will solve multiple issues and make the game more fun. Stay tuned!
hexed canyon
Can we get an anti hyper push mechanic in classic. I.E. when red leaking you lose myth production or something. Possibly only apply it top 2 players worker wise. Alternatively you lose gold when leaking
Right now gameplay wise pressing the worker key u key is a dopamine hit as players wealth is more determined by passive income than by clearing waves.
hexed canyon
p8 hyper pushed so hard the duo was crushed. By disabling themselves mid game they disabled 2 players on the enemy team and scaled back in anyways thanks to their worker count
The issue with the u key meta is as they leak they obtain extra value thanks to their superior worker count. Someone mashing the U key is not only unpunished they're rewarded for doing so
In this game p2, p3, p4 and p7 had a bad time. p7 complained about it multiple times needing to build for a teammate who wasn't building to hold themselves.
rare fern
actually given that outcry, a reasonable question to ask would be "is there a pr...
brute good. ogre smash. income boring. leak good. unga bunga wololo
auto senders will hold my leak while try hards make enemies leak. temwurk :insert stonks meme:
classic is for casuals seeking entertainment, and try harding adds variety to the game making it more entertaining. if somebody is whining about losing in classic - wrong house bruh, ranked is next door.
rare fern
here's a fictional anecdote to demonstrate a good teamwork:
i am player A with lane partner player B. we are against C and D. let's ignore other 4 players for now.
case 1: player A try hards, player C is forced to hold back workers and cannot send big mercs to my homie player B. now B can auto send and push workers with gay abandon, while i cover his ass. But as a result, player D gets plenty of income sends and bonus gold, no real threat. D has two choices, push workers to maximize economy competing with C. or try hard and make A leak so B is forced to hold back on workers.
this is one case where A chose try hard. 1 more case where A can choose auto send. auto or try hard? 2 decisions per player.
for all 8 players, that's 2^8 = 256 possible outcomes. try-hard may also have variations due to income sends occasionally but let's ignore that
each outcome works through 4+4=8 layers of complexity (counter approach of 4 players on half map and 4 more for other half) which is a function of cognitive ability of each player. 8 people choose one of those 256 outcomes and form their decision-making process (may change later, but let's ignore that for simplicity). that's 256-P-8 variations of a game, which is a pretty fucktonne of a big number of order 10^19
summary -
auto-send, no variation, no decision. only 1 way to play. pray you get a good roll.
try-hard, lot of variations. bad rolls? no problem, try to break the other guy's good roll.
footnote: i suck at math
then there's double lane partnering thingy where two players drop down and build together. more variation
true wharf
here's a fictional anecdote to demonstrate a good teamwork:
i am player A with l...
If everyone tryhards because they're sick of losing then the only way to play is to tryhard which is therefore boring
rare fern
you can always counter a tryhard with autosends though
true wharf
Wrong
undone portal
Yeah the reason people complain is that longsaving in the midgame is way superior to everything. I think itās always been this way, but more and more people are actually doing it now
rare fern
well it's a multiplayer game. play according to your opponents. don't whine just cuz "my method doesn't work, game is broken"
unique spear
some ppl enjoy playing the game their way, of course they gonna complain if they can't play their way and enjoy the game, especially if it got worse
rare fern
buffing auto-senders will remove variations. remember the time when people pushed workers till 10 and built after 11? it flat out removed variations. all 3 other players on that half were forced to play a very specific way.
unique spear
as Snek pointed out, right now mid game saving feels too good
true wharf
well it's a multiplayer game. play according to your opponents. don't whine just...
The problem is that there is no "outplaying" it which snek and I have both explained to you. Your claim is that playstyle variation is good for the game and the current meta disallows that.
Also why does king lightning not 1 shot witch frogs rofl
rare fern
i love mid game saving. what's wrong with it?
i don't think snek explained it to support or oppose anything. just an observation.
unique spear
"Yeah the reason people complain is that longsaving in the midgame is way superior to everything."
" I think itās always been this way, but more and more people are actually doing it now"
rare fern
it's not a guaranteed victory, which is important. auto senders usually have good income and value, they handle one extra ogre or one eye pretty well
unique spear
People feel it's too good
which means, people feel there's no options if you want to try and win
ideally all strategies would be viable right? But now you HAVE to mid game save, otherwise you might as well concede the game, unless there's a huge disparity in skill
While it's not guaranteed, most people would say, it's pretty close to
rare fern
then stop autosending snails and upgrade king. duh
unique spear
what if people are already doing that?
rare fern
let the king survive with 1% hp, then late game is all yours.
unique spear
you lose so much value from leaks in mid game
rare fern
there are situations where try harders prevail, and some where auto senders prevail.
unique spear
Most people would argue that 99% tryharder and 1% auto sender, unless there's skill disparity
rare fern
you lose so much value from leaks in mid game
which was the opponent's intention to slow down auto senders
unique spear
yeh, so the auto sender loses more value in the exchange
and gets a net loss
and a lost game
rare fern
Most people would argue that 99% tryharder and 1% auto sender, unless there's sk...
arguing without math is kinda pointless
rare fern
yeh, so the auto sender loses more value in the exchange
still have more income and workers than try harders. advantage is yours
unique spear
It's not pointless, perception is what matters,
Even if devs claim game is perfectly balanced, if people feel it's not, then its not
rare fern
feelings are illusions. we all want to win, anything that makes us lose feels unfair.
rare fern
i do. just sit with me for 20 classics, i'll show you where auto senders win, and try hards win in comparable numbers
rare fern
you have no math to prove your points either
i used simple permutation earlier, scroll up and check it out. it's rudimentary but still presents a little something
rare fern
it doesn't account for current meta or anything.
unique spear
yeh exactly
rare fern
for that only developers can analyse game data and give hard numbers.
i can only count with my fingers
unique spear
as I said, it doesn't matter what data says, if people stop playing because they feel balance is shit (even tho data says otherwise)
Then the game dies
rare fern
until now i have seen only haxity and you rant about it. that's two people. let's see if that crosses triple digits, then maybe we're on to something
otherwise only game data can justify your point, like players are reducing, or classic games are queuing for a longer time, reduction in match numbers etc.
you say every strategy should be viable, i say every strategy should be countered. checks and balance. if a strategy cannot be countered then we got problems. like the build-after-10 long time ago
right now both try-hards and auto-sends can be countered. that feels fair
unique spear
you counter auto sending by saving and counter try hard saving by auto sending and scaling
that makes no sense
true wharf
it's not a guaranteed victory, which is important. auto senders usually have goo...
Yes it is lol
Go play vs 4x people who save from 15-19 and see how well you hold lol
Unless everyone knows to not push during 15 there's almost no counter play
unique spear
I mean it's not, when there's skill disparity. Sure when one team is significantly more skilled, auto sender wins
unique spear
not sure if you should call that "viable" tho
true wharf
Agreed
rare fern
as a wise man once said - "there are no patches for skill disparity"
imma go take a nap.
cosmic nimbus
Every time weāve gotten ābig changesā itās gotten progressively worse. Wonder how itās gonna get ruined this time.
cosmic nimbus
Yeah the reason people complain is that longsaving in the midgame is way superio...
The difference is now with Gold Rush you can go pushing super hard, being borderline pro-leak to long saving without fear of falling behind defensively despite gutting yourself income wise and leaving yourself susceptible to what would have been tri aura buffs leaking you 70+% every wave before.
vagrant seal
i mean im fine with removing ranked borders in classic
whenever i play classic in duo or party, they just save on me and my mate surely randomly
true wharf
the long term dilemma is that there's no fixing the behavior. you can balance the game any which way you please but people are always going to chase min/max advantages. if that means playing lock-in with flower, they'll do it. if it means cross build with pyro egg theyll do it. if it means saving 5 levels for a 1 shot kill that's impossible to play around - they'll do it. i dont know that there is a solution where the mode is still fun and casual tbh.
gusty pike
Yeah the reason people complain is that longsaving in the midgame is way superio...
You got literally no real option to do that different when you play with 1+ mates.
How is it possible to beat people with 1k+ games with income sends only (btw those guys are mostly the first who start tryharding bcse they see your high ranks)
Examples for most broken and most unbalanced bonus income.
Hybrid-goldrush-bonus income (switch off brain donāt worry about anything)
Fiesta-goldrush-bonus income (just push worker whenever you want)
Pixie fiesta-goldrush-bonus income (ggez wave 1)
Mostly higher rated enemies get those free boost vs lower rated random teammates have to handle those op-buffed guys (and ofc they wonāt have any chance)
All in all make sure you carry those guys and doing bigger tryhard calls (undercuts by hardpush // overcut with overbuild and longsave 4+ waves)
Thatās how you get a chance to beat experienced boosted enemies.
toxic fiber
Poll created.