I assume the framework of wc3 allowed for easier additions and plug and play for mods. This was made from the ground up. I agree the price is very high and is confusing with the skin shop and cards and all that. The game does cost a lot to continue to function though. It’s in a weird spot for sure on the cost and monetization from a consumer standpoint.
#Why can`t we get the original mod of warcraft 3 in this game?
crisp warren
rigid flame
- Playerbase currently cant handle another que, and looking at the number of ppl playing classic vs ranked, ranked is generally the more popular game mode
- The servers struggle to load wave 21 in classic, 10x waves is not happening for a while
- Duels was cut since it generally favored the team thats ahead and made it very difficult to come back, aka balance reasons
stark bison
4v4 ranked is in the game, and is currently named classic. I think this is intended since the devs believe it to be a casual mode even though it is often very competitive.
I think a good chunk of the rest has to do with balance. If you get full bounty for your teammates leaks, then playing cross/eco is too busted. I do agree this game does need new modes, probably a permanent 1v1 mode and some kind of casual mode are required. The duel would be a nice callback to the original. Would need a lot of balancing, with AOE units being in a weird place. Generally too weak with small aoes as is the case with pyro, or would be too strong with large aoes for example sovereign. Who knows how many stacks that bounty hunter would get during the duel.
Could be cool to see a casual mode with 30 or 40 waves even if those additional waves are re-skins.... then again how much of the playerbase wants to play a 2 hour game of legion? Not sure. Would require a giga sized server increase I imagine. There is already a lot of talk about how wave 21 causes a lot of server lag, and a history of consistent nerfs to gold (including the last one where all of the mercs had 17% of their income taken away). The hard part seems to be more figuring out how to do the cool things. It's easier to cut the wave 11 battle because of how irrelevant it is to the overall game. It's easier to have fewer waves with a sharper ramp up.
fleet ferry
The playerbase can easily handle another queue, probably 2 more. People are just too impatient. I'm so tired of seeing that as an excuse. You're signing up to invest 20-30 minutes into a game and wanting to drop in instantly is just crazy talk. Maybe I'm just old though and remember spending 10-20 minutes waiting to get into games as a norm back during the old fashion modem days.
rigid flame
long que times at all elos is prob one of the easiest ways to hurt a playerbase
rigid flame
hmm, so its your word vs the devs
and not sure who has more accurate playerbase data
fleet ferry
I mean when it shifted it from 4v4 to 2v2 they lost over a quarter of their player base. A lot of which never returned. And the change was done because of "queue times."
rigid flame
whats your source on that?
do you have data on 1v1 playerbase retention? its always brought up and the devs bring it out pretty frequently
fleet ferry
Not even discussing 1v1, don't shift goal posts
You can easily check the steamcharts for prior playerbase data though, don't need the Devs to provide info for that.
rigid flame
what date range should i look at?
fleet ferry
Let me get out of game and I'll get you the precise timeframe when ranked was changed too since you have zero google-fu skills.
fleet ferry
March 2018 292.9 -109.4 -27.20% 613
And numbers wouldn't be able to match pre-change when it was only 4v4 numbers until launch.
rigid flame
interesting
so they left since they didnt like 2v2? or since que times increased?
what changed with 4v4? they renamed it?
was ranked 4v4 tight matchmaking?
what was removed to reduce the number of combos?
neat hinge
Mandatory comment that Titanfall 2 is 90% off on steam now and the best fps ever. Big agree that that's an amazing deal and worth even for the campaign only
rigid flame
how different was duo build back then? and cross gave full gold?
ok so as a ranked mode, if the devs decided it was unhealthy as a ranked environment it is reasonable to be removed or nerfed?
peaking at launch doesnt seem like a fair comparison to make
also, failz pointed out that playerbase decreased by 25% after they added a 2nd que (ranked 2v2)
thats kinda how most games work no? hype from some event (launch, new mode, new story etc), and then players slowly lose interest?
do you have tracked numbers for it?
not gonna argue any point there, there will always be a group people who enjoy X game and will play it regardless of playerbase or balance
fleet ferry
2v2 was also a temporary measure while they grew the playerbase originally. You can find posts from 2018 from Dani even stating that the intent was to go back to 4v4 once the playerbase could support it.
rigid flame
why couldnt 4v4 grow the playerbase?
fleet ferry
Because, as you can see from the link I shared, people were complaining about queue times in 4v4 so they shifted to 2v2 to try to please the greasy wheels.
rigid flame
so long que times are a deal breaker?
fleet ferry
I'd say no given that queue times went down and the playerbase did too.
rigid flame
what happened to the playerbase? did they do sweeping changes to 4v4?
fleet ferry
They left, 4v4 wasn't a thing yet, only via Custom.
rigid flame
the game only launched with 2v2?
fleet ferry
Which magically when the game added Classic with Season 3, there wasn't this mass Exodus either. And tada, game supported 2 queues with similarly running numbers.
Season 1 was 4v4, like was Alpha and the original design of the game.
So we're sitting at almost twice what the game has had pop wise for a substantial amount of it's life and people wanna say we don't have the playerbase to support a 3rd and 4th queue.
rigid flame
when they added 4v4 que, was it just populated by ppl who made custom game lobbys previously?
fleet ferry
That you would need Dev comparison numbers on.
rigid flame
again, i have no data on if ques can support more modes (like when 1v1 is added for mini events), all i can do is listen to the devs when they say they dont think the game can support more ques (at the time)
if devs speak again on that issue, i will update my view
is it an excuse? or their view on the current game state?
and you have the data across all elos and all times of day?
so que times are not good already?
que times for wc3 was 15 min?
fleet ferry
Strict matchmaking in any game results in extended queue times in the upper echelon.
rigid flame
like i said, i dont have the data, devs do
is there matchmaking?
so theres no matchmaking and you are comparing it to a game with matchmaking?
does the lobby try to balance teams based on elo tracking?
or are the players deciding the partys themselves?
so it auto balances the teams?
is there any way to garuntee you play on the same team as your friends?
so its possible to have 4 duos?
seems like it has alot of the features, just not as streamlined
can you leave the room with no elo penalty if you see strong enemies in the lobby?
ok thats a distinct difference then
ebon horizon
If there wasn’t matchmaking in this game myself and I would wager a good population of players would not be retained. The non matchmaking in sc2 and wc3 makes them feel so much worse.
fleet ferry
(no it isn't, you just suffer a 5 minute penalty currently in ltd2 for doing it.)
ebon horizon
start game >one thing goes wrong > leave to try again> mess up game for 7 other players
fleet ferry
That's interesting, never noticed a change in someone's ELO after a Dodge.
rigid flame
elo change is not shown in classic, so im not 100% sure
but in ranked, a dodge is -8 elo
sharp anvil
I would argue that making the game 2v2 instead of 4v made this game more competitive, which usually loses player base,
In 2v2 you're more likely to see your own fails and more likely to pick up on your team partner fails because they have a much larger impact on outcome..
also as Quacker pointed out, it's hard to evaluate how much player retention was affected just by the game not being "new" anymore
That being said, que time is a real thing, games are no more just for kids and teens, a lot ppl here are old timers, they have their job, family etc.
Most of playerbase will never wanna waste 5mins+ on que in a game they're not hardcore about (which is 90%+ playerbase)
There's so many great and alternative games there to pick up that don't have que time issue.
fleet ferry
Cool, what's that great and alternative strategy game without queue times.
That also the meets the caveats of being competitive and only having to sit down for ~30 minutes or less to play at a time.
fleet ferry
Touche lol
sharp anvil
I was referring to not hardcore player base? You think they need exact same type of game to spend their time on?
fleet ferry
Most people don't exactly genre hop that much. If they were gonna jump ship it would be to another strategy game.
sharp anvil
most ppl actually hop games a lot
they might have something popular like LOL that they can play alongside game hopping, but that's mostly cus they have already enstablished friend group in said game
fleet ferry
No doubt. But most* people typically have a pretty steady rotation.
For myself over the past calendar year I put down FF14, Stellaris, and EFT and picked up WoW, LTD2, and Marauders. I didn't just completely go welp no more MMO, FPS, or Strategy for me. And most of the reason I put down FF14 and Stellaris was due to the time I had to sink into them.
sharp anvil
I don't think ppl necessarily care about genres