I recently got a new gaming laptop with a 4060, my old one had a 1070, yet for some reason it seems to be performing about the same or even worse than my old laptop. For example, on today's totd I'm only getting about 50 fps.
#Low FPS on my new laptop
coral jetty
I also tried switching to fullscreen and using the force display plugin, it helped slightly
turbid prawn
I recently got a new gaming laptop with a 4060, my old one had a 1070, yet for s...
did you install graphics drivers yourself?
turbid prawn
you go on the driver site and download the correct drivers and install them
since you can't trust the preinstalled garbage
ideally you install windows on the new laptop from scratch anyways, since preinstalled windows as a whole is already a rotten can of worms
coral jetty
yeah pretty sure i checked for updates or whatever only a few days ago
turbid prawn
sadly i don't have time to go into depth with you into diagnosing this
someone else here will have to do that with the whole Ctrl-F7 history profiler and what not
@tepid cipher perhaps, idk
tepid cipher
I recently got a new gaming laptop with a 4060, my old one had a 1070, yet for s...
what fullscreen/desktop resolution are you using on the laptop
its probably some insane resolution that the 4060 can't handle properly in TM
I'd honestly recommend switching the desktop resolution to 1920x1080/1920x1200 if it's a 1440p screen and try again
coral jetty
what fullscreen/desktop resolution are you using on the laptop
1080
tepid cipher
are you absolutely sure
and you're sure the game is using the 4060 and not whatever integrated gpu it has?
coral jetty
yeah it says 1920x1080
coral jetty
and you're sure the game is using the 4060 and not whatever integrated gpu it ha...
yes im sure because i had to fix this already the first time i used the laptop
tepid cipher
that's strange then
what are your game settings set to
because if you're running max settings on a 4060, im not surprised you're only getting around 50-60fps
the 4060 should be running way better at same settings as the old laptop
however some of the graphics settings are quite resource intensive
coral jetty
coral jetty
i hardly touched any of this i think its just default mostly
tepid cipher
one sec
coral jetty
looks the exact same as with my old laptop though
tepid cipher
nice antialiasing -> switch to "FXAA"
reflections on vehicles -> switch to "Low" or "High (in replays)"
shadows quality -> switch to "Minimum"
reflections on water surfaces -> switch to "Low"
other reflections -> switch to "Enabled"
restart game, should give you a bunch more FPS
rain sage
imo just turn off antialiasing (both fast and nice) by setting it to none as antialiasing affects frames like a LOT my fps goes from like <30 to 50-60 with just that one change
also unless its a biiiig monitor you cant really notice
tepid cipher
nah
FXAA doesnt have that big of an impact on framerate
maybe on really shit hardware
rain sage
like mine ig
turbid prawn
FXAA has near zero impact
not even a single fps difference on a normal system
and that despite the fact that the built in "FXAA" is actually not FXAA but a more higher quality depth based postAA
coral jetty
nice antialiasing -> switch to "FXAA"
reflections on vehicles -> switch to "Low"...
why would i want minimum shadows?
turbid prawn
you can try higher shadows and see how bad of a performance impact it is
but realtime PSSM shadowmaps are generally quite the performance impact
coral jetty
ill do some testing
ok changing all those settings only gave me about +20fps
before i was between 50-80fps on the totd, now its between 70-100fps
shouldnt a 4060 be doing way better than this?
turbid prawn
depends on the power+cooling configuration of the laptop
it can perform better than that but doesn'T have to
also if you are plugged in or not makes a big difference
if you are running default power setups in windows
coral jetty
its plugged in and battery setting is on best performance
this is legit only like +10fps on my 1070 on every map
surely something is wrong
turbid prawn
old gpu was a 1070mobile right
turbid prawn
this is legit only like +10fps on my 1070 on every map
in terms of pure raster performance, it kinda checks out to be honest
coral jetty
whats the point of having a 144hz screen if i cant even get close to that 
coral jetty
in terms of pure raster performance, it kinda checks out to be honest
the first time i used the laptop it got like 200+ fps on a totd though
so its like something changed
turbid prawn
some dumb software maybe messing with things
coral jetty
openplanet is a dumb software 
turbid prawn
no i mean like laptop specific software
stuff that installs itself in the background
that's generally why i don't trust preinstalled OS'
turbid prawn
that's how ice looks for everyone with decent settings
coral jetty
which setting changes it
turbid prawn
"other reflections"
coral jetty
ok thanks
turbid prawn
but then you're murdering this game's visuals in its entirety
so might as well go lowest settings
and only keep shader (and textures) on high for ice borders (and FXAA on and anisotropic filtering on 16)
coral jetty
but then you're murdering this game's visuals in its entirety
well ive always played like this and i dont think ive ever even seen ice look like this for any streamer
turbid prawn
cuz they all play on garbage settings
coral jetty
so no i dont think it murders the visuals at all
turbid prawn
you can think whatever you want
coral jetty
but now for some reason my game looks extremely dark
turbid prawn
funfact: the rtx4060 has a worse theoretical pixel and texture throughput than the 1070
turbid prawn
pretty irrelevant metric by today
coral jetty
how have they not made a better gpu after 4 generations
turbid prawn
raw compute performance is twice as high on the 4060
turbid prawn
no
coral jetty
ok i just changed the shadows from minimal to high and it had zero effect on performance
turbid prawn
that setting might maybe need a game reboot
turbid prawn
if you do Ctrl F11
while you're in a map
post screenshot of the top left what it says
coral jetty
the first time i used the laptop it got like 200+ fps on a totd though
also this totd is just insane for fps for some reason
i didnt realise
im getting 200-250fps on it again
turbid prawn
right
that's good looking
well if you are down to 100fps again for some reason
send such a screen again
turbid prawn
cuz CPU bottleneck means something major is wrong with the system or something
coral jetty
i thought the cpu would be the bottleneck ngl
turbid prawn
show that TOTD with a Ctrl-F7 history profile frame open
aka
you do Ctrl-F7
then click "paused" on the left
then MOUSEOVER, not click, a frame in the BOTTOM graph
and send screen
coral jetty
any frame?
turbid prawn
can you make sure your driver settings are defaulted
coral jetty
what does that mean
turbid prawn
you open your drivers
nvidia control panel
and check for 3d application settings on the left
and reset global settings
and application specific settings if TM2020 is available in that list
coral jetty
and reset global settings
restore to default?
turbid prawn
ye
coral jetty
why?
coral jetty
i didnt touch anything except using dedicated gpu as default
maybe i set a max frame rate idk
turbid prawn
yeah well that shit's preinstalled it might have anything set in it
coral jetty
k
coral jetty
turbid prawn
urgh
coral jetty
ok
turbid prawn
ye i'd reset to defaults there
turbid prawn
the texture filtering options in there
are definitely not default
or at least not a real default
coral jetty
yeah literally nothing changed except the preferred gpu
coral jetty
i compared it to my screenshots
turbid prawn
on the left
image settings something
with preview
something
does that still exist?
coral jetty
what
turbid prawn
it's the graphics driver
coral jetty
this is just some settings for the gpu
how is it a driver
can i call windows settings the windows driver?
turbid prawn
a driver is a piece of low level software that makes your windows able to communicate with a piece of hardware
as in, without nvidia drivers you can't use nvidia GPUs
and this settings panel is the interface of the nvidia driver
coral jetty
k
turbid prawn
yeah idk i legit actually don't have time to like
guide you through what decent defaults are
tepid cipher
ctrl+f11 twice
helps more with debugging what is actually causing it to lag on the TOTD
i half expect it's probably "renderparticles" or something stupid like that
also @coral jetty that's why I told you to build a fucking pc in the first place.
gaming "laptops" with low-end mobile gpus are garbage
anything xx50 or xx60 is not worth your money
coral jetty
this is not a laptop vs pc problem you elitist
tepid cipher
it actually is
coral jetty
i dont have money for something like that
turbid prawn
you'd be getting a desktop 4070 if you were to build your own desktop, for the same money
tepid cipher
with the same money you put into a laptop you can get BETTER components
coral jetty
im not having this coversation 3 times
tepid cipher
not just of the same tier
tepid cipher
or even a radeon rx 7800xt
coral jetty
not happening
coral jetty
yeah
tepid cipher
but yea
you can probably still squeeze some stuff out of the 4060 mobile
but it was never gonna be like 2x performance
tepid cipher
rasterization performance on Nvidia cards has barely improved in the past 6 years
coral jetty
it shouldve been
coral jetty
instead of 2x i got +10fps
tepid cipher
like i said, rasterization performance only ever increases so much each generation
it's like a 10-15% increase per gen, if even
coral jetty
well this is 4 generations apart
tepid cipher
3
turbid prawn
only three generations newer
tepid cipher
16 is the same as 20 series, just no RT cores
turbid prawn
16 series is no generation
tepid cipher
1650/1660 are 20 series cards without RT cores
coral jetty
what about the others
coral jetty
no like
tepid cipher
GTX 16xx cards are all based on Turing
turbid prawn
those are just rtx20 cards
tepid cipher
there's no 1670
coral jetty
wha
tepid cipher
GTX1650/1660 are based on the RTX 20xx cards
they just arent capable of raytracing
here
all cards using turing chips
coral jetty
idk what that is
tepid cipher
that's the GPU architecture
coral jetty
that's the GPU architecture
idk what that is
turbid prawn
the generation
coral jetty
ok
tepid cipher
Turing is RTX 20xx/GTX 16xx, there's Ampere which is RTX30, there's Ada Lovelace which is RTX40 and now Blackwell is 50xx
turbid prawn
everything in the list chris sent, is one and the same generation
tepid cipher
just the codename of their chips technology for that generation
coral jetty
why does this website say that the 1660 super is worse than the 1660
tepid cipher
it doesnt say that
coral jetty
and the 1660 Ti is worse again
tepid cipher
that's not sorted by performance
coral jetty
and the 1630 is apparently the best 
tepid cipher
ITS NOT SORTED BY PERFORMANCE
coral jetty
i didnt say it was
turbid prawn
what the hell makes you say like it was tho
turbid prawn
and those are what counts
tepid cipher
that's the shader engine counts
coral jetty
but comparing the 1660s and the 1660 apparently the 1660 is better
turbid prawn
and the 1660super is better because it's GDDR6 and not 5
turbid prawn
lower clock on GDDR6 is better than the higher on GDDR5
coral jetty
faster?
tepid cipher
1660 has GDDR5, therefore has a higher memory clock but still worse performance
coral jetty
why are the other stats still the same
tepid cipher
that's the GPU core clock
turbid prawn
cuz memory is the only difference between the two
tepid cipher
the super is the 1660 but with faster memory chips
and the Ti is the super but with better stats
more shader units, slightly lower clock and memory rate
but still better
coral jetty
but why is the gpu clock and memory clock lower
tepid cipher
because the super came out later than the Ti
and they probably optimized the binning (aka how the chips are being produced)
coral jetty
k
turbid prawn
it's also often made this way to balance a card's performance to the price target
tepid cipher
also, those are just factory defaults, third-party cards probably had higher clocks by default anyway
nvidia loves to do refreshes of their cards that are slightly better in some way but then worse in others
also to explain why you maybe only see a 10-20fps increase on the 4060 mobile compared to your 1070 mobile:
- rasterization performance hasn't exactly increased in the past 6 years
- most of nvidia's advances in GPU power come directly from their Raytracing stuff and the power of DLSS, which Trackmania sadly doesn't support.
If we had DLSS in the game, you'd see insane performance increases with the 4060, just from being able to use DLSS at all
and with the 4060 you'd even have access to DLSS3.5 and Framegen
turbid prawn
also to explain why you maybe only see a 10-20fps increase on the 4060 mobile co...
which trackmania luckily doesn't support
tepid cipher
DLSS isn't as bad as people make it out to be
coral jetty
so why did i get this laptop
turbid prawn
idk ask yourself
tepid cipher
because you can play other games that can take advantage of DLSS and won't have a miserable time playing those
also, your CPU is way better than before
coral jetty
why did nvidia release cards that are 8 years apart and perform virtually the same
turbid prawn
that's just a trackmania situation
coral jetty
well no
turbid prawn
well yes
tepid cipher
they don't perform virtually the same
any other recently modern game will have DLSS support
TM doesnt
turbid prawn
yeah and pure rasterisation performance isn't the real factor anymore for modern games
tepid cipher
I said earlier they increased by like 10-15% generation over generation
because rasterization is essentially solved
there's not much to gain anymore
coral jetty
I said earlier they increased by like 10-15% generation over generation
then why dont i see that 10-15% increase generation over generation
tepid cipher
50->60 is a 20% increase
turbid prawn
I recently got a new gaming laptop with a 4060, my old one had a 1070, yet for s...
what fps did your 1070 get on that totd?
tepid cipher
not to mention that TM is a notoriously badly optimized game
coral jetty
because rasterization is essentially solved
so games cant improve their quality anymore?
tepid cipher
they can. but they don't do it via raw rasterization
coral jetty
because the gpus will not keep up
tepid cipher
the bells and whistles these days will be real-time raytracing, path tracing, etc
coral jetty
wdym these days
turbid prawn
not to mention that TM is a notoriously badly optimized game
*in game logic performance, and only tm2020
tepid cipher
if you've seen what nvidia announced for their 50xx cards, it's all about reducing texture sizes and letting AI "dream it up on the fly" essentially
coral jetty
havent we had raytracing for like 7 years now?
tepid cipher
yes
and that keeps improving
the performance of it
raytracing performance is still absolute garbage
coral jetty
if you've seen what nvidia announced for their 50xx cards, it's all about reduci...
yeah which is terrible
tepid cipher
the 40xx series cards were the first that made full pathtracing somewhat playable
exactly
because nvidia isn't really innovating here
turbid prawn
the 40xx series cards were the first that made full pathtracing somewhat playabl...
but that also only with ray reconstruction ai imagination
tepid cipher
if we're looking at AMD, they're bringing the costs down, leaked benchmarks show their new cards perform about the same as the RX 7900XTX for half the price
nvidia doesnt do that whatsoever
they just add faster memory, gimp out on vram on lower end cards to push you towards the 5080 or the 5090, and thanks to DLSS and Framegen, devs arent forced to optimize their games anymore
coral jetty
yes they do
turbid prawn
nvidia is much more a hardware+software company these days than a pure hardware company
tepid cipher
perfect example: new indiana jones game
the game barely hits 60fps with medium/high raytracing at 1440p on a 4080 super
coral jetty
the 4080 costed $1300 on release, the 5080 will cost $1000 while being much better
tepid cipher
one of the best gpus out there
the 5080 wont be vastly better
dont eat their marketing bullshit
and no, the 5070 will not have rtx 4090 performance for 600 bucks
coral jetty
but its a whole generation ahead
ofc its going to be better than its older counterpart
tepid cipher
yea, it has faster memory bandwidth, but the actual advantages will mostly be seen in games that actually support DLSS4
in older games you wont see much of an increase
and the only game so far
that we know of that will have DLSS4 support
is Black Ops 6
and the game runs pretty well as is
it doesnt need it
so
what also could be of note here, is we don't know how much of the full 115W TDP that your 4060 could use is actually available to it by design of your laptop
you'd probably have to check something like GPU-Z or HWInfo to see if it's even allowed to draw that much power
coral jetty
?hwinfo
elfin mistBOT
tepid cipher
you'd probably have to check hwinfo in its sensor panel to see how much power draw the card does
turbid prawn
does hwinfo show "current cap reason" like gpuz does
tepid cipher
according to this it has a board design of 115W
tepid cipher
does hwinfo show "current cap reason" like gpuz does
yes
tepid cipher
my guess is you're either hitting a thermal or a power limit
turbid prawn
you gotta still check performance cap reason
coral jetty
ok im on the sensor tab
turbid prawn
it's possible that 65°C is a thermal cap
coral jetty
now what do i look for
coral jetty
it says gpu thermal limit is 87c
tepid cipher
you're probably looking for something like "Total GPU Power % of TDP"
and "GPU Performance Limiters"
e.g. on mine it's because it's hit the highest voltage it's allowed to go to
tepid cipher
are you currently driving
tepid cipher
it told you to close trackmania?
coral jetty
when i installed hwinfo it said to close all other applications so it works properly
tepid cipher
yea during the installation
it's a monitoring program
so ofc it's supposed to be running during the game
coral jetty
ok
tepid cipher
it doesnt make sense to monitor the gpu usage when you're not playing the game
what you can do is click on "logging start", tab back into trackmania, play a map for like 30-40 seconds, then click logging stop and send me the file
coral jetty
i didnt know what you were asking me to do
i thought you wanted to know the thermal limit
which i said was 87%
tepid cipher
nah i wanted to find out whats the issue with you not getting more performance than you are
while playing the game
coral jetty
i dont know what the hell is "total gpu power % of tdp"
tepid cipher
basically, what that option means is "the gpu is currently drawing X% of its maximum power draw"
we're assuming that for the 4060 mobile that's 115Ws, but if that isn't the case we'd see it via "GPU Package Power"
if your hwinfo can even report that on the mobile chip
coral jetty
but how am i meant to have the game running and check hwinfo at the same time
tepid cipher
that's why I said click the clock at the bottom
itll ask you where to save a file
and then once ur done playing, you click logging stop
then you can open it up in excel and it'll give you the values over time
coral jetty
oh ok
turbid prawn
this is why i prefer gpu-z for that tbh, to have the graphs right away
tepid cipher
sorry, it's the sheet of paper icon
not the clock
you can also show graphs in hwinfo
tepid cipher
rightclick any stat -> show graph
coral jetty
where does the file save to
tepid cipher
wherever you say it should save to
when you click the "sheet+" icon
itll open up a dialog asking you where u want to save the .csv file
coral jetty
k
tepid cipher
the clock resets the tracking
tepid cipher
yea so
it's not limited in any way
you're hitting 100% usage on the GPU Cores
so it's not like the GPU isn't being used
coral jetty
ok
coral jetty
so ig i cant do anything
oh
what
wait but the gpu is at 100%
why is it only pulling 45W
tepid cipher
yea that's a good question
there's 4 skus apparently
there's an 80W version, 90W, 105W and 115W
im not exactly sure if the power reported here is entirely accurate
coral jetty
tepid cipher
yea it doesnt say what its limited to
coral jetty
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Laptop (AD107M/GN21-X4) [MSI]
but this is the model right
shouldnt this tell you the power rating of it?
tepid cipher
the problem is
it's up to the laptop manufacturer
on how much power they wanna give the GPU
and how high it's allowed to clock
from what I'm seeing here wioth the clocks
you're probably in the lowest tier of 4060s
coral jetty
bruh
coral jetty
why do they not advertise this
tepid cipher
this is as soon as you tab into the game
you're hitting your max power limit on the GPU
tepid cipher
yep
that's what I'm seeing here as well
wait
that's for power state 1
also that's the CPU
not GPU
coral jetty
coral jetty
are you plugged into the wall outlet
its on charge yeah
tepid cipher
one sec
lemme see if the laptop has some high performance setting that'll allow it to hit that 70W limit
because I feel like this is some conservative setting
jesus, yea
that laptop has a 45W power limit
wtf
there's an option to circumvent that, but... I'd honestly just try and replace it with a better laptop
coral jetty
:(
vernal elk
permanent battery saving mode
tepid cipher
like return and get a different one with a 4060
coral jetty
well i cant really do that now lmao
tepid cipher
you could talk to them and see if they'd let you return it or exchange it for another one
coral jetty
whats to say the new one doesnt have a 45W power limit though
coral jetty
buh
tepid cipher
all the MSI Cyborg 15 A13VF's come with a 45W power limit
tepid cipher
well
you'd have to return this and ask them if they'd be willing to let you pick a different laptop for the same price
tepid cipher
you NEVER EVER throw away boxes of stuff you buy until the warranty is up.
coral jetty
my cat sat in it and scratched it up so i just threw it out
tepid cipher
yea you usually put those in the basement or up in the attic
or if you're renting, some storage closet
coral jetty
i did keep a few boxes of random things but mostly because i was too lazy to throw them out lol
like my rubiks cube and mouse and keyboard
tepid cipher
like I said, there's ways and means around this 45W power limit, but they come with increased heat and well... if you don't know what you're doing you could brick your laptop entirely x)
coral jetty
fun
vernal elk
external fans 
coral jetty
but if the gpu is reaching 100% at 45W does it even matter if i increase the power
tepid cipher
basically, the GPU is being limited to 45W
hence it doesnt clock higher and is limited to whatever amount of power it has access to
you can get around it by flashing a different vbios to the gpu chip, but I would not advise to do so
tepid cipher
here's some benchmarks with more power limit
so you'd see another 10-15% performance
tepid cipher
idk
the temps increased to like 80-85°C on the GPU tho
up from 65°C
with the 75W bios
coral jetty
hm
well maybe 60W would be safer but thats hardly a performance increase plus i need battery life for tafe
so i guess ill just stick with this
tepid cipher
the battery life would be a non-issue
coral jetty
?
tepid cipher
because the dedicated GPU wont be used for the screen by default
coral jetty
oh yeah but i would have to change that every time
coral jetty
because if i have it set to automatic it ONLY uses the integrated graphics
tepid cipher
nope
tepid cipher
you just make it decide to use the nvidia gpu for games
in the windows graphics settings
coral jetty
well thats what automatic means lol
tepid cipher
for everything else it'll then the iGPU
you dotn have to change it "all the time" because you set it up once
and you're good to go
coral jetty
lemme check if the box is still in the bin brb
oh wait nvm last night was bin night
it wont be
tepid cipher
do you do all bins at the same time
coral jetty
no actually recycling was last week not this week
so it could still be in there
but i have to check in the morning