#Ground

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

frozen oasis
rapid marlin
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what sens do you play in cm?

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@frozen oasis

frigid solstice
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looks like precision issue i guess

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like smoothness wise its not that bad

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but you're just not on target

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either overpredicting direction changes(especially bot 2) or you have to tell yourself to be on target

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4rK's Tracking Improvement Plan (v2)

Warmup Playlist - KovaaKsTeleportingSmoothEnrage

Advanced Playlists

Precise I - KovaaKsSensingMahoganyCash
Precise II - KovaaKsSneakingMahoganyTroll
Reactive I - KovaaKsPushingAquamarineTroll
Reactive II - KovaaKsQuestingAsparagusMomentum
Control I - KovaaKsPoppingApricotFieldupgrade
Control II - KovaaKsPullingAquamarineCash

Intermediate Playlists

Precise I - KovaaKsPullingAlmightyTopfrag
Precise II - KovaaKsPushingAlmondModifier
Reactive I - KovaaKsAcingCrackedDoghouse
Reactive II - KovaaKsAdsingDandelionBigpot
Control I - KovaaKsEnragingDiagonalBattlepass
Control II - KovaaKsBaitingDesertsandPrecision

Adept Playlists

Precise I - KovaaKsPlunderingAfkFeed
Precise II - KovaaKsPoppingAlmightyCard
Reactive I - KovaaKsWipingCopperSniper
Reactive II - KovaaKsZoningCornflowerInventory
Control I - KovaaKsDunkingDesertsandDink
Control II - KovaaKsBackflippingDesertsandAp

Novice Playlists

Precise I - KovaaKsQuestingAngelicEnrage
Precise II - KovaaKsRaidingAntiquebrassBug
Reactive I - KovaaKsAdventuringDandelionRhombus
Reactive II - KovaaKsAfkingDefaultHeaven
Control I - KovaaKsEntryfraggingDiagonalRank
Control II - KovaaKsBindingDiagonalFullbuy

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try the adept or intermediate reactive I playlist from here

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works well on fundamentals

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oh and i would set up a contdown at the start of the scenario

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as you seem to not track the start smoothyl

frozen oasis
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Yeah Im not sure how to be more precise I like get on the target then I lose it

rigid salmon
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@frozen oasis post a run of the entry version

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Don’t use your wrist at all

frozen oasis
ripe bison
frigid solstice
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@swift sluice

frozen oasis
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@swift sluice

rigid salmon
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Bruh

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💀

swift sluice
# frozen oasis Any advice would help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoM20bHhPaQ&feature=youtu....

Honestly you have a lot of issues, and I don’t think it would be super helpful to point them all out. If I were you, I would focus on separating the adjustment (flick after strafe) and your speed match through the strafe. Meaning, flick faster and harder than making a clear transition where you begin tracking the bot. You don’t really do this at all, and I think it’s biggest issue (very clear on bot 2). You end up speed matching the bot even when you’re off it. Don’t worry so much about over flicking. Just get that part of the technique down and you can solve the other issues after

pliant finch
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@swift sluice

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@snow compass

frozen oasis
frozen oasis
swift sluice
# frozen oasis Wait so I should flick faster

It’s more of a farther problem than faster. But sometimes you forget to flick at all. Also if you flick and you still aren’t on the bot, you need to be able to still move your mouse fast enough to get back on the bot. (If you overflick, you need to be able to slow down, but I don’t see you overflick at all)

frozen oasis
swift sluice
frozen oasis
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Oh so flick and get back on the bot

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Then speed match

rigid salmon
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its worth saying

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for most intermediate or lower ground bots

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the flick can be very small.

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so dont go from 0 to 100 on making the wrist contort to do the flick.

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make a small adjustment to get back on the target then resume smoothness

frozen oasis
rigid salmon
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you predict a lot

frozen oasis
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54 cm

rigid salmon
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wtf

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no

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30cm

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bring me a vod of ground entry at 30cm

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54 is outrageous

frozen oasis
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Alright my bad

rigid salmon
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not your fault or anything

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just setting correct guidelines

frozen oasis
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Im trying to like fix my habit of using my wrist

rigid salmon
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ya so lets start there

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do a ground entry run at 30cm

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use zero wrist

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lets just start there

frozen oasis
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Using so much tension trying not to use it lmao

rigid salmon
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you dont need tension at all rly

frozen oasis
rigid salmon
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only very briefly to change direction

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like idk what you think you need strong muscle contractions for

frozen oasis
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I know Im just like forcing myself to keep my wrist neutral

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and forcing myself to use arm so Im naturally doing it kinda weird

rigid salmon
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forcing is a weird word

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just let your hand be in a neutral relaxed grip

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where it is holding the mouse but thats it

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that shouldn't require you to force anything

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and then arm just moves back and forth

frozen oasis
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Alright yeah Im a try to focus using my arm more and learning how to let my wrist be relaxed

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On those little jumps do I use my wrist to catch up with it

rigid salmon
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Like

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Look at how little tension this is

frozen oasis
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Oh so basically no tension

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Should I just avoid using my wrist overall in tracking then

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Seems like most of the time Im using my arm

frigid solstice
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wrist is used for corrections when a target changes direction

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then arm continues the smooth long motion

rigid salmon
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for most novice and intermediate tasks because they use OW accel on strafes you only need a very small amt of wrist

frozen oasis
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In my head I was thinking bots that strafe left and right very little use wrist

rigid salmon
frozen oasis
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And long ones use arm

rigid salmon
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this is enough wrist for everything in S5 kovaaks intermediate

frozen oasis
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Oh I see

rigid salmon
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for older reactive scenarios, very angular ones, or simply advanced speed ones, you need more

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but you should learn to control this first

frozen oasis
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Im noi using a lot like I would in 1w4ts

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I just need very little

rigid salmon
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yes

frozen oasis
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So I would use wrist but arm is mostly what I need to use

rigid salmon
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and you can see my arm moving constantly

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it is always involved

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wrist just helps the arm get back to the dot

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but it never does the arm's job for it.

frozen oasis
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So on ground I would still use the wrist then

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I just have trouble like using arm and then going to wrist motion if that makes sense

rigid salmon
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Good arm tracking

frozen oasis
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I kinda have to think Im using my arm now then wrist the motion is kinda rustic for me

rigid salmon
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Bad arm tracking

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for beginners.

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exceptions to this exist for VSS or harder scenarios

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but learn this first

frozen oasis
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Okay so try not moving my wrist while I arm aim

rigid salmon
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no; use the wrist for direction changes

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a small, short amount of wrist

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like i show here

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your paraphrases are just not correct

frozen oasis
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Okay

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Yeah thats what I get confused on

rigid salmon
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the wrist does get used

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its just small, and controlled

frozen oasis
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Like when Im doing arm and the sudden change

rigid salmon
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i'm starting by having you do no arm because you have no frame of reference for what 'small and controlled' means

frozen oasis
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I have to like think in my head Im doing arm then wrist if that make sense

rigid salmon
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so someone else will tell you to flick back to the bot

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and that's true

frozen oasis
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Its not fluid for me

rigid salmon
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but without the right cue

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you just overuse the wrist

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and the arm stops moving

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which is bad

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it should be arm and wrist together

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arm doesnt stop

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wrist just gets involved then chills back out

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arm is constant

frozen oasis
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Oh so you want me to isolate them so I dont over move them Im guessing

rigid salmon
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you're isolating the arm so you learn how it feels to arm track ground bots

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then you add back in a small amount of wrist to score better

frozen oasis
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Oh so I keep aiming with arm and do the wrist motion at the same time

rigid salmon
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but only a small amount.

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you dont need a lot

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salt your food

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don't pour it in

frozen oasis
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Oh so work on arm first

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Then learn to incorporate them both

rigid salmon
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yes so go make a vod of ground entry with no wrist at all

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ik you just made one

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but think about what we just atlked about

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and try to make your arm look like this one

rigid salmon
frozen oasis
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Oh I see

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Im over predicting how far the bot will move so Im doing too much motion with my arm

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Instead of staying on it

rigid salmon
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you're still guessing a ton

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but i think your'e using the right part of your arm now

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play the Entry version of this scenario until you can do it without predicting

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not novice

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entry

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Also you should probably add like 1 second to your count down timer for this scenario because you’re just like

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Missing lots of points

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From not being on target at the beginning

frozen oasis
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Okay I will

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Should I do the same for the rest of the tracking scenarios

dim bramble
rigid salmon
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Bot 2 and 3 Aether are more fingers and wrist together

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Bot 1 yes it’s all arm and some wrist

frozen oasis
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Okay I’ll wait when I do those to ask questions

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Don’t wanna get ahead of myself

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Just hearing wrist and fingers is confusing me already lmao

dim bramble
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look at a top ground reactive vod with handcam and see what they are doing

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on screen and physically

ripe bison
rigid salmon
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Agreed, reactive is really very straightforward and it is just about understanding the mechanics and getting the basics down when it comes to efficiently changing directions without doing too much

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Turning the complicated mechanics of changing arm direction and doing a wrist adjustment and making that feel just as binary as hitting a button is a skill set all in itself, and this is what ground primarily assesses

swift sluice
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Frozen handcam 💔

dim bramble
rigid salmon
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Harder variants do require more wrist

dim bramble
rigid salmon
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?

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the same way i sent the alcoholic to rehab

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noobs are addicted to wrist

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and must learn to aim without it before they get it back

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wrist is op but it cannot work alone

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why would you send a wrist overuser to go watch a video of an expert who knows how to blend wrist correctly into good arm

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the arm will be lost on the noob and you are only left with 'well he uses wrist so i should'

dim bramble
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"this is enough wrist for everything in S5 kovaaks intermediate"

rigid salmon
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i already feel like I sufficiently replied to your previous statement about it

pliant finch
swift sluice
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😭😭

pliant finch
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well i mean some people like cute just always use that little wrist but most good players use way more wrist than that for non insta accel

swift sluice
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I think unless the wrist/arm usage is blatantly a problem. It’s not worth thinking too much about and there’s other things to fix

rigid salmon
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I wish that ‘just use the right amount of wrist lol’ was an effective cue sad would make it so much easier

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As it is I suspect that people actually use more than 10% but visualizing it as ‘very little’ gets them much closer to the amount I want

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Cues are weird.

swift sluice
rigid salmon
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You can score better with the right size wrist flicks to get back on target

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But as long as you’re mostly arm driven and don’t predict (and be smooth), you’re still doing it ‘right’

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I’m not worried about splitting hairs on the precise flick distance until those other building blocks are in place

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Does that make sense?

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Focusing on the flick distance when the smoothness and arm rooted technique aren’t is just going to build bad habits as people stop moving the arm adequately and overextend the wrist

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It’s kind of like building a pyramid where I have to make choices about what is worth teaching first

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And what makes the whole thing crumble if it isn’t on the bottom

dim bramble
rigid salmon
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I feel like the wrist usage on say PGT is way different than cfsi

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Especially hard variants

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Or ones with aggressive acceleration

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There isn’t rly any cfsi bot in s5 tho

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Closest thing is ground bot 2 but even then it’s a kindaclose strafes variant and only one profile is fast

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And it’s still OW accel and not some of the wrist destroyers in OG gps or what have you

dim bramble
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if it isnt coming from coach ben it isnt good advice seems like

frozen oasis
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@remote plume

rigid salmon
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If that’s what happened then I’ll apologize; it’s hard to track conversations across like 4 or 5 days

swift sluice
# rigid salmon Harder variants do require more wrist

It’s not that harder ground scenarios “require more wrist”, wrist is generally used for maximizing time on target through an adjustment. Which is emphasized on scenarios with slower adjustments (like gpsv3), as well as landing micros, and is also just generally faster than arm for adjustments.

rigid salmon
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sure but i dont want to say 'hey this is how this works' without also having the underlying context of 'but the arm still needs to move basically constantly so your wrist doesn't overextend'

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that accurate nuanced take on the wrist's use has to go on top because most people show up to aim trainers with bad postures and high sensitivities, with low elbows and a desire to let the wrist do almost everything it can reach whether its good or not

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some exercises that break their previous habits down into something that can be constructed again better is appropriate for beginners methinks

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i dont want the distraction of what the wrist can technically do during that process

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i want to look at the arm and make sure the arm is getting activated and players can move through a range of motion comfortably and with good posture

swift sluice
rigid salmon
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Now we have wrist overextension, the arm coming to a full stop (which requires overcoming static friction to get moving again)

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You end up with really bouncy adjustments that just get players shaken off

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So I think the adjustment has to be taught after the arm matching

swift sluice
# rigid salmon Sure; but what happens when the wrist handles the adjustment and then players ju...

I feel like we agree, but I think your explanation overcomplicates how people should think about using their wrist in ground. Yes the amount of wrist needed changes from scenario to scenario, meaning there is a right wrist:arm ratio. But that’s kind of a useless fact. I think it’s much more helpful to say that the wrist is only used during the adjustment (which is the only part that changes from scenario to scenario), and the only wrist movement after is making the wrist return to a neutral position throughout the rest of the speed match. This does not allow for the wrist to “max” out, and holds true for basically every ground scenario

pliant finch
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ion know how 2 read

rigid salmon
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Out of context it just appears like incomplete information

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Still

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Voltaic’s descriptions of what to focus on in their guides are spot on, but they are so accurate that they end up missing the cues for beginners

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I think maybe I can do better by explaining the bigger picture (the wrist gets involved for the adjustment) and then proceeding to start by building the form arm first

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So I can isolate the likely weakest part