#top 3 for cel is too exclusive imo

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

bronze plume
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I don't really see the issue. It's not like people have to achieve celestial. It's meant to be near unachievable by nearly everyone. I mean I can see it being frustrating to see a rank so absurdly difficult to achieve, but it can also be pretty motivating. Just depends on how you view it

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Which is fine imo, its meant to be for the top of the top

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Yes I know. I think thats totally fine. It is meant to be that exclusive imo

rigid fiber
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But it's not right? Matty got it

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Benchmarks been out for almost a year, and it hasn't been an issue

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And why wouldn't they upload them

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Is it do others a favor?

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Or can they just not be bothered

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Interesting

glossy fable
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i see where you come from

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discipline where i can see it actively being an issue is static prolly, celestial can be gatekept by static mains if everyone submitted

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air bad example, since no one has beat the barrier of 3650 outside the top 3
and about top 5 idk, imagine we had 2 more OTPs per discipline, would just happen again if you give it more time for more one tricks to arise

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but celestial is meant to be a competitive rank, i think thats the whole essence, to being the best of the best, so theres definitely a dilemma between balance and yk the whole purpose behind the rank. When celestial was made this wasnt that big of an issue, but now that there are more and more insane players ye concept might need to evolve

bronze plume
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You'd have to change how it works completely to make it more achievable. But yea i dont think making it top5 is a solution, its just a bandaid fix, the problem will happen again and again

glossy fable
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or instead of manual changes, some type of average calculation among the top 3 or top 5 scores even, but celestial being its own rank with its own evolving scoring rules seems like a pretty interesting idea ngl

bronze plume
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is it just strictly top3 rn?

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i guess i can see your point yeah. But it's also up to definition, like they could keep it top3 and there would be nothing wrong with it yk. But i can see the appeal in making it a bit more achievable for the people that grind their ass off

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aah okay yea, i see i see. That's fair. Good point

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i honestly thought it was already getting adjusted properly

brisk crow
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My thoughts on this debate are as follows:
The only problem I am foreseeing with the current system of top 3 is that one tricks in each category will overshoot celestial requirements drastically, and if the third place determines what the celestial mark is, then the gap that results between celestial and astra can be unnecessarily wide.

Obviously, I’m not trying to take away from the competitive nature of the rank. I think that it is a requirement we keep that going, but I am implying that players who use their time in improving all the categories, thereby becoming a more well-rounded and comprehensive aimer, should not have to rise entirely to the level of commitment that one tricks invest in their mono-category grinding. Obviously, I was able to do it because at the moment there are not too many OTPs per category- maybe one or two, and they don’t always submit, which gives me the opportunity to take those extra spots. The base score for Celestial was also extremely high, 3700 on air being an example, so that kept even seasoned air players such as Leica from breaking that threshold and placing themselves on the leaderboard.

The reason I support the top 5 suggestion is that it gives even more padding for players who are able to break that insane threshold and therefore rightfully earn the title. It also leaves the top 1-2 spaces for the dominant OTPs to take, as well as maybe for the lucky few who can contest. Obviously, we keep minimum thresholds high.

Take OW top 500 for example. Astra is like GM, but only the best 500 players in the region hold that great celestial title. Imagine if that rank were only top 50 or top 100. As our player base grows, and more people join in, I think it makes sense we make more room for great players. And that doesn’t devalue the rank because we will would still have high base requirements anyways, and raise them if needed.

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And say in the future, we do get more OTPs and are forced to answer this question once again. Will we raise it to top 7? Top 10? At that point, I’m not sure. I think it feels appropriate to draw the line at 5. If more than 5 people are breaking the base requirement consistently, then maybe the base needs to be raised because that would indicate general improvement of the people playing at the time.

rigid fiber
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This seems like a needlessly hostile remark about something you can't possibly know, and simply isn't true

rigid fiber
# brisk crow My thoughts on this debate are as follows: The only problem I am foreseeing with...

Thank you Matty for your input, idk about the Overwatch example, but I get the OTP part. Just in the 3/4 years that we've had benchmarks it has never been a problem, and even now it still hasn't been (People always gotten high highest ranks, even when people said it's impossible).

Also, I get that it could become a ''problem'' in the future, e.g. if there would be people only actively grinding certain categories to gatekeep others from getting Celestial or what not. I'm open to take another look at it, and see if it's indeed a good idea to raise it to top 5 (but it might not be, and it could completely change what the rank means as well).

It also leaves the top 1-2 spaces for the dominant OTPs to take, as well as maybe for the lucky few who can contest.
You mean the ones good enough? Why would luck be the determining factor for them to be able to contest?

brisk crow
rigid fiber
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Appreciate the feedback nonetheless

oblique quail
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Just take an average of the top 10. That makes it self adjusting and requirements will go up as people get better, but won't be gatekept by 3 players pushing values up significantly higher than others by spending 2.5k hours on that scenario alone. Then for top 3 it's just celestial #1, #2, #3 to distinguish them.

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vt air advanced from above example would have celestial set at 3606.692 with that, which is currently just slightly better than #5. So that's still top 4 which is pretty solid but it's not as massive of a leap as 3610 to 3715, which is what it would be with top 3

languid pagoda
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is the issue with OTPs that they block the score or make the overall role harder? Dont really see why it would need to change if its the former

oblique quail
languid pagoda
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cause celestial is the babe ruth rank

rigid fiber
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Also I think people are exaggerating, and think that just because someone else is ahead of them, that they can't get as good

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Anyhow, there's still valid feedback here, and we will use it to make sure the rank remains attainable

brisk crow
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I actually have something more to posit on this.
What was the reason behind abandoning the original ranking structure where Astra was the "highest rank" possible in terms of hitting specific static requirements and Celestial was only given to the top 3 within that rank? This was the structure of the previous season (S3), which in my opinion was the pinnacle of the benchmarks' design. I find that it makes less sense to have this extra dynamic score balancing be presented as a static achievement on the score sheets. It could be less... bothersome, and it doesn't necessarily detract from the value of Celestial. If the reasoning was confusion from the players over what was celestial and what wasn't, but I don't think that the confusion was very widespread. The ranking system was pretty well understood.

languid pagoda
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to trick you into pushing even higher scores

proud field
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Imo celestial should be just a rank above astra and a rank for top 3 scores shouldnt exist.

rigid fiber
rigid fiber
rigid fiber
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Yes, not everyone can get it

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That's what makes it exclusive

proud field
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exactly because of one tricks, its not like in normal games where you get in top XY because you are good overall not just at one category of the game, just my opinion

languid pagoda
rigid fiber
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What I mean by that, is that it has never been the case that someone who is capable wasn't able to get it, due to ometricks gatekeeping

rigid fiber
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It's actually much better than having to manually buff things

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Competition inherently carries some form of gatekeeping

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If you can't accept that, then you just hate competing

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Like for instance there was a weekly Competition in the past for kovaaks to get "aimbeast" role

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Only the top 3 would get it

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Made that role exclusive, and only the best players would get it

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That's the point of it

proud field
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for example static, only reason matty has the top score is because the first 3 didnt apply and as far as i know none of them are cheaters

rigid fiber