ptb-discussion

[astral cipher]

Wiki

[reef sedge]

its min 60 seconds for his power no matter what

[celest hare]

He 100% needs nerfs

[fluid fern]

its 6 minutes total, and you can reduce it to a minute 15 seconds. But any time Vecna is in Worldbreaker before the survivors cleanse does not decrease the minute 15 seconds

[celest hare]

His matches are so easy LMAO ngl it's fun but like 😭

[astral cipher]

Snail wtf are you talking about

[echo dune]

yeah which can easily be avoided by playing right?

[reef sedge]

my queue time went UP from 1 minute to 8 mins in 2v8 omfg 😭

[fluid fern]

Idk what you mean by that

[celest hare]

Idk why people saying the counterplay is like nurse's wasn't a MASSIVE red flag to me...

[echo dune]

Why would you when you dont play artist? Play the killer optimally and you wont have to face the severe cooldown?

[astral cipher]

Because he’s also not as strong as her

Nowhere near as strong in fact

[fluid fern]

thats the point. Vecna doesnt have to be played optimally because he has no cooldown

[celest hare]

Turning your brain off and just running away isn't well designed counterplay

[fluid fern]

you can just send miss after miss after miss and it never stops

survivors are always neutral in chase, they cant win distance

[astral cipher]

If you do that you are not lasting long against either of them

[reef sedge]

there should def be a small cooldown for his vines.

[echo dune]

When Ghoul came out people did the same thing started freaking out almost instantly ( justfied bcz that one was broken in ptb ) the same hapenning here

[celest hare]

^ it is a little insane lmao, maps also aren't designed for this gameplay

[fluid fern]

big brain statement, ty. I said this about Midwich and the Game

there are parts of those maps where if the gens spawn in a certain way he literally cant miss undergate

[echo dune]

Ofc you have to? Each missed shot gives the survivor distance against a 4.4 killer? Idk how you dont see this as a problem even though you play Slinger as a p100?

[celest hare]

How is simply running away from others and important gens and stuff, breaking LOS wherever possible, and trying to be unpredictable constantly (so just running around like an idiot) using your brain though? It's not hard at all to be as optimal with it as possible like to me nurse counterplay = turn brain off

[cold sonnet]

if you think turning your brain off is actually gonna consistently help you against a decent vecna, you are wrong

[astral cipher]

Is that an actual question

[celest hare]

Did you read this 🥀

[celest hare]

I mean why wouldn't it be

Nurse breaks the game and no one likes it
Vecna breaks the game and the vast majority likes it? Just cause he's not as op as nurse? lol

I'm just gonna shush and wait til live and see

His addons also seem pretty crazy but I'm not a Vecna addon expert lmao

[astral cipher]

“Is doing A while doing B and also thinking about doing C actually considered doing anything?”

That’s your question

[cold sonnet]

i would argue that

• thinking about where to run
• what tiles to play or not to play
• figuring out if the vecna is adapting to your movement
  does count as using your brain

if we call this not using brain, no killer requires brain to counter

[celest hare]

It sounds complicated but it's piss easy, you just run AWAY, like AWAY lmfao, and constantly double back and run behind cover, it's like playing against trickster with infinite knives

[celest hare]

And some knives go through walls and injure you immediately lol

[astral cipher]

You think and predict what Nurse or Vecna player is going to do, and if you do the same thing every single time then they’re also gonna be able to predict your actions every single time

[celest hare]

Probably a terrible example, point is it's not hard at all I just don't think players struggling are good at the game or know the counterplay

[celest hare]

Shaking it up isn't hard at all though, am I brain rotted from not being an average player anymore

[cold sonnet]

yes (respectfully)

i think you are vastly overestimating the ease at which the average player adapts

[celest hare]

But do you guys not see that it's so much easier nurse and vecna counterplay than others?

You ignore using resources efficiently

[cold sonnet]

i think its quite the opposite

because nurse and vecna but a ton of in-chase pressure on you

[celest hare]

The match being harder because the character is op (nurse) doesn't make the counterplay harder tho

[cold sonnet]

but now that might be me overestimating how the avarage player fares in resource management vs. in chase

[astral cipher]

Like okay, if we talk about theoretical concepts, both Nurse and Vecna potentially have 0 counterplay in chase.

But that’s useless to even talk about because not a single player is gonna be ever able to even come close to consistently hitting survivors perfectly

[celest hare]

... 👀 with current Vecna? Really?

[astral cipher]

Yes

[celest hare]

I'd 100% think the right players would essentially never miss lol, like they wouldn't go for risky predictions

And use aura perks to fill the gaps anyway

[cold sonnet]

who are the right players in your mind here

[celest hare]

Vecna specifically, the right players would be the best at them

[astral cipher]

By that logic a cooldown isn’t an issue

But again that’s absurd to think about

[celest hare]

Because they're not spamming then?

If a prediction is safe or they have enough LOS isn't it safe to assume the best Vecnas wouldn't miss?

I'd think the same is true with nurse

[astral cipher]

Because if you don’t miss then the missing penalty does not matter, yes

[celest hare]

I'd imagine it being like you're using a stamp to squash ants running around on your desk if you're that good don't ask why that came to mind

[astral cipher]

If they predicted correctly, sure. But a human being can’t predict everything perfectly.

And we also can’t just remove the LOS factor entirely from the equation

[cold sonnet]

okay though let's not forget that judging a killer based on those who will be insanely good is not a good way to measure

[celest hare]

I mean is it not effective enough to go for shots where predictions are almost 100% safe if you're really good

[cold sonnet]

that way we could complain about huntress because there are players who essentially never miss a hatchet

[celest hare]

I mean yeah ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[astral cipher]

Is 100% safe prediction even a prediction

[cold sonnet]

and for those of the releveant gauss curve playerbase, i would argue there is still plenty of room to miss and get punished

[astral cipher]

I’m with Scott on that Vecna is not gonna be very popular killer due to the sole fact that he’s tricky to play as

And survivors are only going to get better at playing against him

[astral cipher]

I’d say around Spirit level of popularity, probably higher due to popular license

[fluid fern]

the moemnt you move predictably in any way, you are dead

[astral cipher]

No way

[cold sonnet]

well yeah

[astral cipher]

Moving unpredictably is not equivalent of turning your brains off, that was the point

[cold sonnet]

(i am not sure if this is in agreement to my statement or not)

[cunning kelp]

Yea bc the more you spam it the more distance they get

And considering he’s 4.4

[astral cipher]

Thank god he’s 4.4

[fluid fern]

we're goign to see a massive flux of killer players who dont understand the conventions of DBD but understand how to track movement start suddenly performing well on thsi character, and a lot of survivors who cannot perform at the highest level get blown through even though they are solid at conventional gameplay

its just not healthy

[cold sonnet]

i dont exactly see why it would not be healthy

[fluid fern]

because keep in mind, his cooldown right now is without add ons

[astral cipher]

You are very bold to assume people are suddenly gonna get good at this one exact thing lol

[cold sonnet]

its not like every other killer will be disabled once vecna drops

[cunning kelp]

What addons decrease his cooldown?

[fluid fern]

Slinger and Huntress almost always are run with Warden's Keys and Babushka respectively just to make the characters feel normal

[celest hare]

Vecna is piss easy omfg

[astral cipher]

There aren’t any

[fluid fern]

none, its just fast as fuck by default

[cold sonnet]

there are already people who perform waay better on character x or against character y because they can deal with that gameplay better

i dont see why it would be a problem with vecna specifically

[fluid fern]

yes, he is

I even mentioned that the reticle should probably not be trackable while channeling to make it fair

[cunning kelp]

Yea I feel like vecna has the same counterplay as nurse in a way

[cunning kelp]

I would disagree tbh

Considering how unique it is

[cold sonnet]

not gonna lie, if i were to play a game against an old killer and then a game against vecna and win thanks to the exact same playstyle, i would be bored

[fluid fern]

there are a lot of different ways, some better some worse, to make the killer much more fair and honest

[astral cipher]

Snail you say some controversial but understandable stuff and then suddenly hit with the most absurd bullshit one could even imagine

[cold sonnet]

like isnt a unique-ish play/counterstyle the most healthy thing for the game?
if we put the fine details like exact m2 cooldown aside

[fluid fern]

His design, aesthetic, everything is perfect

he just needs to have requirement of precision and a more fair risk reward

[icy bronze]

Incenses are insaane guys

[cold sonnet]

if a new killer releases and i can watch a "how to loop around TL" guide from 4 years ago on youtube and never die, THATS bad design

(slight hyperbole but i think y'all get what i mean)

[cunning kelp]

Cooldown should be increased slightly and movement speed while holding the vine attack should be increased

[astral cipher]

No

What

[cunning kelp]

That’s my opinion

[astral cipher]

Why would you even

Making him faster while charging just makes zoning infinitely more efficient

[fluid fern]

well yes and no. TL is a convention of DBD. But you dont run a TL against a Trapper the same way you would against a Blight. That's the variety

[cold sonnet]

yeah that was my point, we dont wanna run the same way all the time

[fluid fern]

but with Vecna its the same as Nurse, put your character model out of sight and make them guess what you did, try to predict their prediction

which is totally fine, fun , and fair. BUT if the sirvivor wins, they should get meaningful distance

[cold sonnet]

honestly just make vecna super slow if you miss an m2, and give him a bit of haste/less slow if he hits

[fluid fern]

right now, Vecna just walks liek a second and youre back in range

[cold sonnet]

make going for risky shots actually risky, reward hits

[cunning kelp]

Yea that’s why his cooldown is so fast

[fluid fern]

👆

[cunning kelp]

Plus the fact you need to hit them twice to enter worldbreaker

[fluid fern]

its the miss thats the problem, not the hit

[astral cipher]

Except Nurse has 2 blinks and after the first one she gets to readjust. Vecna doesn’t have that

[fluid fern]

Vecna should be a two tap monster if the killer wins

[cold sonnet]

i dont think there are major issues with the initial cooldown, the range or the way it shoots through walls
but i think there can definitely be tweaks to how punishing misses are

[cunning kelp]

Yea

[fluid fern]

agree

[astral cipher]

Honestly make him slowdown more after missing, but keep the cooldown the same

[fluid fern]

that would literally fix it

[astral cipher]

It’s still punishable but you get to be creative

[cunning kelp]

I think if they increase the cooldown only in worldbreaker I think it would be a little more balanced

[fluid fern]

plsu the slowdown would be meaningless if the Vecna chorales a survivor into a corner

[cold sonnet]

like ima be fr i have been playing this guy almost non stop since ptb dropped there have been moments where missing felt shit but i legit had a situation where i just spammed m2 in the same loop until i finally figured the steves movement out.

Now the loop in question was a horrible decision to go to but still

[fluid fern]

so he can still zone survivors at strauctures

[astral cipher]

The issue is that slowdown is very tricky to balance without making a killer feel awful. If they strike this balance then it’s fine

But even with that in mind I’d rather not change him at all for the release

[celest hare]

This, how do you balance this mf lol

[cold sonnet]

oh while we are at it

chess add on has immaculate skill expression opportunities

[celest hare]

He is not as hard to play as people say he is though

[astral cipher]

He’s not easy enough to the point where he’s gonna immediately break the game like Kaneki or Krasue initially did, so they have the time to see how he performs

[fluid fern]

same can be said for Nurse

[cold sonnet]

or more like immaculate means to punish obvious missteps

[fluid fern]

Blink to corner -> look around -> react

[celest hare]

He's 100% easier than nurse and nurse also isn't as hard yeah

[cunning kelp]

Holy I gotta try that what

[celest hare]

She's so clunky with like collisions and stuff that was my main issue/what I found difficult

[fluid fern]

agree, he's way more technical and there will be a steep drop off of long term players after initial hype

[celest hare]

Yeah this killer ain't healthy it'll take a lot to convince me otherwise lol, can't wait to see live Vecna

[cold sonnet]

[celest hare]

And then inevitable further nerfs Vecna lol

[fluid fern]

but there are going to be people who main this kilelr, and as he's designed right now, there's fuck all you can do if he hits or misses

and the good ones are patient and dont miss the majority of their shots

[astral cipher]

“Inevitable”

[fluid fern]

and overtime they'll miss less and less

[celest hare]

Let's face it he's gonna get further nerfs after his nerfs from ptb to live

[cunning kelp]

Is the only downside the smaller circle?

[cold sonnet]

longer upside down cooldown as well

[fluid fern]

it doesnt need to be much

[celest hare]

100% even if he shouldn't

[astral cipher]

I doubt there will be major nerfs from ptb in the first place, let alone down the line

[cunning kelp]

Ohhh ok

[cold sonnet]

which is fine tbh

[astral cipher]

He’s not complained about enough

[fluid fern]

just something to make recklessness punished with the M2

[celest hare]

i don't think you're looking in the right places but maybe

[astral cipher]

I’ve been on forums, Reddit, Discord, Twitter and YouTube

[cunning kelp]

They need to make a punishment for spamming it

[celest hare]

People act like he already is... sure never feels like it

[astral cipher]

What else do I gotta check. Facebook?

[celest hare]

Your algorithms aren't showing you enough of the hate, I've seen plenty

[astral cipher]

I’ve seen hate, obviously

[celest hare]

But people hate all the time

[astral cipher]

Exactly

What was the last time a new killer came out of ptb nerfed

[cunning kelp]

People complain about the killer before they learn counterplay most of the time

[celest hare]

Still I'm pretty sure he's gonna get nerfs that'll either not be enough or just right and then more nerfs regardless

[celest hare]

I thought it's common wait hol'up lmao

[austere stone]

Wait so I never got a straight answer. Is Hex Hive Mind one of those Hex perks like Two Can Play that can be activated again even if cleansed?

[cunning kelp]

Krasue was different tho she was very op

[fluid fern]

the difference this time is that the counterplay is entirely mindgames and line of sight, which is already high level of play

[cold sonnet]

no

[astral cipher]

Krasue was BUFFED from ptb mind you

It’s about what followed after

[celest hare]

His counterplay does a fair bit against the vine attacks but not enough for the undergate attack if the Vecna is really good

[tawdry kernel]

is there gunna b any more stuff to buy in the 2v8 store or r the 2 outfits just it

[astral cipher]

Nope, not really

Kaneki got his pallet break nerf following his release and that’s about it

[celest hare]

But this is my opinion and I'm still not super sure what to believe loll

[astral cipher]

Nothing I can further notice

[celest hare]

Blight: (he needs the same shit bad)

[cunning kelp]

Oh yeah what do yall think about chucky in 2v8?

[astral cipher]

It’s Chucky

[celest hare]

Fun but I basically despise 2v8 lol

[cunning kelp]

lol why?

[celest hare]

Feels like it's for people who don't know the game very well yet

[cunning kelp]

Trueee

[astral cipher]

It’s casual

[celest hare]

It's just way too all over the place and the chaos is fun but

[cunning kelp]

Speaking of that tho

[celest hare]

Casual doesn't excuse some of the shit design in it though, I had a lot more fun in Identity V's 2v8

[cunning kelp]

I had a nemi that didn’t get a single hook the entire game

He had one but it was bc I downed 2 people

[astral cipher]

It kinda does

[celest hare]

And things like that, useless teammates, no MMR so everyone is AWFUL, double tapping, both killers on you period,

[reef sedge]

no real mmr in ptb

[celest hare]

To an extent yeah but I still feel like it's not good enough

[cunning kelp]

Like I’m not gonna wait an hour just to “mess around”

[astral cipher]

Well that’s why it’s getting better over time

[astral cipher]

No real mmr in 2v8 mind you

[cunning kelp]

But I like that nemi has 4 zombies now

[reef sedge]

they should make the zombies 300% faster :3

[cunning kelp]

Make them faster than killers

[reef sedge]

yes perfect

[cunning kelp]

I love playing Oni in 2v8

With the shadow class

[dense geyser]

No they come out overbuffed cough krasue cough

[tawdry kernel]

with auric cells , i take it they give u 12k everytime they open the beta

[astral cipher]

What about it

[tawdry kernel]

i mean like

do u only get 12k everytime

[cunning kelp]

Yea thank god

I love using skins I don’t have❤️

[tired wyvern]

is it just me or did bhvr go a lil crazy w this chapter? i havent heard any commentary or anything, but like the killer is fun af to play against (needs a nerf tho), the perks are pretty good for the most part, and the skins are nice

like im very happy overall so far

[tawdry kernel]

lowkey it isnt enough , especially since alot of outfits be costing 1k

[cunning kelp]

That is true, but they intend that you use it for the new killers and survivors

[fluid fern]

its a W for sure

Im a little dissapointed we didnt get a second realm for hawkins tho

like a Mall or Arcade or something

[reef sedge]

i think the perks couldve been a bit more creative but overall its pretty good :3

[celest hare]

Guys I've been hitting 360 vine attacks on controller, either I'm insane or he is NOT difficult. 5 matches only, and if you think I'm a nurse main or smth I hate the bitch and only got her trophies 😭

I think maybe it just feels like that because while people say missing is punishing... it's really not, so even though I do miss a fair bit it doesn't feel like it matters and it makes me feel like he's extremely easy

[tired wyvern]

missing is not punishing when its a fucking .2s cd

the cd for missing is less/same as a missed m1

[celest hare]

"But the survivor makes so much distance!" yeah no

Mf needs nerfing, no real idea what or how but yeah

[tired wyvern]

imo the only thing i think needs a nerf is he needs a longer cd on m2

other than that i actually think hes fine

[fluid fern]

agree

if you weren't a Sprint Burster or Dramaturgist before, this is your wake up call

because there is nothing saving you from undergate in some situations

[rigid comet]

When does it come out in the game?

[celest hare]

Nothing except killer error lol

[fluid fern]

👆

[celest hare]

27th to 29th??

[rigid comet]

Thanks!

[celest hare]

I was basically getting bullied by actually good survivors on garden of pain and still won at 1 gen 🥀 they didn't play 100% though but neither did I lmao

[celest hare]

With corrupt, secret project, plaything, and pentimento

[celest hare]

I'm also a survivor main btw 🥀 🥀 🥀

Pretty much same thing on Ormond, and that was my SECOND match, this was also just my 5th

[raven flume]

can you play ptb on epicgames

[reef sedge]

steam only im pretty sure

[reef sedge]

anyone else having issues with the killer 2v8 queues just not putting them in matches 😭

estimated time: 18s for 5+ minutes

[hazy kraken]

nemesis like:"nooooo! what have you done?!"

[glossy ether]

its strange you have every icon and banner but not every cosmetic

[hazy kraken]

that's what free auric cells for

[near breach]

hey is there like a ptb only lfg channel or does barely anyone play ptb

[hazy kraken]

it's official folks, only low skill killers chase survs together in 2v8, it's in survivor's rule book for killers now

[blazing venture]

Double teaming feels like shit to go against but also the killers are kinda hindering themselves by not spreading pressure so IDRC that much

[sly copper]

does anyone know how many people are allowed in the torchbearer class in 2v8? is it the normal 4 players or has it been limited to 2 or less

[near breach]

so ur mad killers are being smart, interesting

[hazy kraken]

well, i was tiff in this match

[copper hollow]

Wait is chucky in 2v8?

[hazy kraken]

yes

don't you read patch notes?

[copper hollow]

I play on switch so I cant play the ptbs

[hazy kraken]

ptb patchnotes still say what's about to come to game anyway

[sly copper]

anyone know?

[copper hollow]

I know that stranger things is coming.

[hazy kraken]

and this time there's no antikiller slop at least

well, it couldn't be the only thing obviously

[hazy kraken]

but as you can see here... tiff killing ada at gates while nemesis whipping them in background

so yeah...

some of chucks addon are basekit in 2v8

like hardhat or amulet

[copper hollow]

I honestly think that the person who played eleven should just delete dbd. Its 2v8 what did u expect to happen?

[hazy kraken]

yeah... this bozo didn't even left us a -rep comment

[crimson sonnet]

anyone up for a ptb game or is this just for chatting?

I have a voicechat if anyone wants to join and play ptb

[drifting onyx]

i had such a wierd wesker bug in 2v8 XD but it is wesker

[drifting onyx]

the wesker dashed at me i tried to locker tech him as he dashed he hit me before i got in the locker my body and camera was in the locker but a shadow of my body and my hit box was taken by wesker so he downed me and i fell out of the locker in the dying state

[maiden smelt]

please nerf vecna to death..

[indigo quartz]

there needs to be a much more noticeable delay for the new killers m2

shit is so sloppy visually it hurts

[winged stream]

Yeah I agree that Vecna is too strong and The First is weak atm

[echo dune]

Why?

[maiden smelt]

i mean the first

[echo dune]

I know why though?

[maiden smelt]

you cant counter him he has 0 cooldowns and you have no time to react if he places it in front of you

[echo dune]

You can counter him? His entier kit can be countered by exhaustion perks and i dont think its that hard to predict him and if his cooldown is made like longer it would force out a very safe playstyle in which there is only m2 when animation locked.
Elaborate on your last sentence in front of you? maybe stop moving it wont affect you since he is 4.4 and is slowed down when using m2

[maiden smelt]

well im not always running sprint burst lithe finesse or stuff i wanna play fun builds

[echo dune]

Then learn to predict him, everyone in this game freaks out when a new killer comes and begin to call for nerfs because they dont learn coutnerplay in 1 day. Just like Ghoul counterplay wasnt learned in 1 or 2 days it took time, so before calling for nerfs willy nilly actually take time to play as and against him to learn his weakness

[maiden smelt]

ofc u can counter it with exhaustion perks its a second chance perks

[maiden smelt]

i plaid day and night and im not a noob

[echo dune]

Never said you were back to what i said it takes more than a day or 2 hell it can take weeks to learn counterplay to a killer and you also need to know
Vecna is a 4.4 killer him missing is punishing as it slows him down and gives you distance, distance is everything against this killer just like nurse or huntress or slinger

[sly copper]

???

[maiden smelt]

🥀 🥀

[echo dune]

?

[maiden smelt]

i give up arguing with ppl that main killers 💔

proly ghoul or clown main 🥀

[echo dune]

60/40 Killer survivor so idk what you want outta me and artist main here so yeah...

[echo dune]

I was just explaining to you how you can possibly counter him not my problem you cant understand that and you didnt even come up with arguments you just said this and peaced out

[cinder tangle]

It's not really fun learning a whole week's worth of counterplay against just one killer.

[echo dune]

Its different with everyone some people can learn it in a day. really depends on how much you play against said killer, people get better at countering blight when they play against blight.

[maiden smelt]

compare the first with wesker or something. wesker is balanced, but the first? fuhh no

[indigo quartz]

the fact that the new killers power isnt on a 3 token system is absolutely insane

who tf thought of this shit man

[echo dune]

What is this comparions? Wesker is a dash killer who can use his ability to close in distance and injure he is 4.6 and him missing does not exactly punish him much, thats why he is so popular?

The first on the otherhand his power can be decreased to 50% by the survivors he needs to hit his m2 twice to begin worldender and each missed m2 slows him down and gives survivor distance, on top of that exhaustion can basically deny him his undergate attack ( even without exhaustion his undergate is hard to hit )

[indigo quartz]

it's not fun at all if the killer can just keep spamming their guesses

[maiden smelt]

then bubba

[echo dune]

You want a survivor to be hit 5 times with his m2 to go down?

[indigo quartz]

i want any person playing the killer to actually have to think about using their power

i know that's crazy random discord person named after your imaginary hex

[echo dune]

Nerfing his cooldown will turn him into a nemesis who just waits for animation lock to use his m2

[indigo quartz]

that allows for this thing called counterplay

i know also equally as crazy random discord person

but please go off

[cinder tangle]

yk, it's not about counterplay, it's about how unbalanced the first is at the moment. It's just like how the Krasue was overpowered at the beginning, in the same way that the first is right now. @echo dune

[maiden smelt]

it could have like 2 seconds more since getting 2 tokens isnt hard at all if youre able to spam it trough WALLS and do it while someones vaulting

[maiden smelt]

❤️

[echo dune]

I dont deny that the guy is like PERFECTLY balanced, he will be nerfed a little for all we know. From what I have acertained watching content creators they all seemingly agree he is pretty balanced. Nerfing his cooldown will force people who play vecna to play him extremely safe imo turning him again as i said into a nemesis who waits for animation lock

[maiden smelt]

there are 3 ppl here saying vecna is too op and youre alone saying hes fine 🥀

[cinder tangle]

I mean, playing safe is the way to win. Just having "fun" (without sweating) doesn't guarantee you a win. So, if you want to win, you have to play it safe, and that goes for all killers.

[echo dune]

if you read above you will find many more with the same opinions as me, and also just because many people say the same thing does not mean that is right? if there are 5 people who say earth is flat and 1 says earth is not flat who is right?

[shy badge]

is the estimate times for killer games messed up or something?

[cinder tangle]

gng its about opinion not facts 💔

[maiden smelt]

the chat is literally called ptb discussion 💔

[echo dune]

and we are not discussing the PTB?

[maiden smelt]

who shat you in the brain

[cinder tangle]

how did you come up with that ?

[maiden smelt]

just asking kindly

[echo dune]

excuse me?

[echo dune]

What is this suppose to mean man

[maiden smelt]

nothing

[indigo quartz]

there's no way you actually think this way

[maiden smelt]

IKRRRRRRRR

[indigo quartz]

ur very toxic for the community at large holy moly

[echo dune]

I am only stating an opinion, and trying to give my rationale idk why you people are getting so triggered at it lol

[indigo quartz]

tokens are an amazing way to prevent simple minded usage of strong abilities and its crazy this guy isnt on a 3 ~ 4 token system

so that he actually has to m1 at times

cuz u know it's also apart of the game

[cinder tangle]

Then why are you comparing it with Flat Earthers ? 🥀

[echo dune]

It was an example dude 🥲

[maiden smelt]

nurse can blink. for that she is VERY slow. vecna can spam his ability for that hes just slightly slower and has no animation cooldown? 🥀 🙏 💔

[indigo quartz]

@echo dune please answer above

[dusty edge]

@indigo quartz 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[ripe bison]

He cant down someone with it immedietly and it isnt a mobility tool.

[maiden smelt]

getting 2 tokens isnt hard when you can spam it takes like 10 seconds

[indigo quartz]

if you can fire off 3 projectiles in less than minute

[ripe bison]

You can also counter it because moving to deadzones makes his power very hard to use.

[echo dune]

Imo if its a 3 to 4 token system that would mean you have to hit the guy with m2 5 to 6 times respectively with his m2 which will take abismally long and after you factor in missed shots you tell me how much time was deidcated to the survivor the way you are suggesting?

[indigo quartz]

it wont take very long to start injuring and downing people

[maiden smelt]

and then hell just m1 you cuz theres no cooldown for canceling it?

[ripe bison]

Which he needs yeah

[indigo quartz]

buddy r u forgetting how the killer ur vouching for works? he can go into stupidworld state if he hits a survivor who's already marked past a certain point

[ripe bison]

His powsr is generally fine but it needs a few tweaks like that

[dusty edge]

@indigo quartz 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[maiden smelt]

he can literally fake it

[ripe bison]

Wdym?

[echo dune]

You said yourself 3 tokens to go into worldender to start damaging?

[cinder tangle]

How can you counter with dead zones? It's literally called a **dead **zone. He is just going to m1.

[echo dune]

He means zoning with his m2 which i agree is broken

[indigo quartz]

i said 3 tokens on his power PERIOD

[ripe bison]

Him having a cooldown when he doesnt use his power is pretty big towards balancing him

[echo dune]

Can you elaborate form what i am hearing you are saying 3 token to enter worldender to start damanging with his m2 is that right if not pls explain

[maiden smelt]

make the sound as if hes using his abilty so you doesnt vault the window and then just cancel it to hit you m1

[ripe bison]

Which is why he should have a cooldown when canceling it

[indigo quartz]

no again i'm saying the actual projectile cooldown itself needs a individual token system of 3 ~ 4 before it goes on a full cd

[maiden smelt]

like huntress she has a cooldown

[indigo quartz]

so that way the survivor ur chasing isnt under constant bombarding

[ripe bison]

Yes

Vecna really isnt that difficult to balance just needs a few tweaks like this

[echo dune]

So a reload after 3-4 shots? that sounds good i dont have a problem with that

[ripe bison]

Easy to go overboard too though

[indigo quartz]

yes

it's crazy that he can keep firing off projectiles with ltitle consequence

[echo dune]

The only thing is that BHVR might give him skull merchant treatment ( which i pray they dont )

[ripe bison]

Adding a second token system to him sounds like too m7ch

[indigo quartz]

distance really doesnt matter when u can fire around obstacles and shit

[echo dune]

Why doesnt it? A lithe basically destroys this killer so does a SB

[indigo quartz]

bro stop spouting this meme opinion play survivor vs this slop and you'll feel similarly

[indigo quartz]

it doesn't if u cant make some kind of vault distance

[ripe bison]

People are acting like he is Nurse tier so they might destroy his power

[cinder tangle]

The ability design from the first is so bad that it's just the Chomper from GWZ2. (google it)

[indigo quartz]

the range he can fire is insane

[maiden smelt]

i agree completely with him

[maiden smelt]

fr

[indigo quartz]

when you run into the competent firsts not even distance plays matter

[ripe bison]

Tf no

[echo dune]

bhvr wont touch him imo, because the chapter pretty much is a success in every content creators books,

[indigo quartz]

especially if u dont want to risk pass parading onto teammates doing gens

[maiden smelt]

mori be like onryos mori but a lil changed thats not creative at all

[indigo quartz]

it's literally anti loop bs smh

[ripe bison]

His mini mori is very pointless

Its funny that it exists but theres zero reason for it to

[echo dune]

Its just there for ST fans imo its pretty cool though

[maiden smelt]

and then he has something like im all ears and then can get you trough walls

[ripe bison]

People seen to always forget or miss that one of his primary counters is deadzones

He struggles in deadzones due to the meneuverability available to survivors in them

[indigo quartz]

i can tell u havent played against the killer much

ur opinion and so called counter play is so bad it hurts to read bro not even tryin to be mean

[maiden smelt]

he'll just m1 you in deadzones

[cinder tangle]

. @indigo quartz

[ripe bison]

Hes excels at antiloop and chokes but he struggles whens survivors have room to move.

[maiden smelt]

frfr got a headache

[indigo quartz]

that's any killer u do realize that right

like holy moly bro you are showing u have like a 35% escape rate at best and that's me being generous

[ripe bison]

I main killer not survivor

[maiden smelt]

obviously

[indigo quartz]

^

[echo dune]

bro with all due respect, discussion without throwing stuff like this at people is necessary so discussion remains civil and stuff

[ripe bison]

I also play a killer that isnt chase focused so theres that too I suppose

[indigo quartz]

i main both sides so when i read lopsided opinions its not fun to have a discussion that way

[cinder tangle]

The argument is as bad as the one about the flat Earthers.

[ripe bison]

I mean from my experience in the PTB he has been bery fun to play against as survivor

But if he can aim or youre on an indoor map its a nightmare

Theres no cooldown on his power so you cant mindgame it as easily as you should

[echo dune]

Tbh if they nerf his power the same amount they nerfed krasues regurgtate that would be fine lol

[maiden smelt]

krasue is still sick when you understand how to play her and have a proper build

[indigo quartz]

then you havent played against a competent first

[noble silo]

the changes made her feel so clunky so I'm expecting them to do the exact same thing to vecna

[indigo quartz]

cuz when that happens fun goes out the window homie

[maiden smelt]

fr i had many noobish vecnas and then i had a guy who understood his ability and easily got 4k in 10 minutes

[echo dune]

First has a real slugging problem

[maiden smelt]

the first time i used vecna i got a 4k too cuz hes so broken

[ripe bison]

His ranged attack lacks limiters

[noble silo]

shit is very easy to dodge, when they increase the cooldown and change nothing else about him people are gonna say he's garbage lmao

[echo dune]

exactly what i am saying

[noble silo]

only guaranteed hits with aura perks or anim locks anyways

[ripe bison]

The issue is that he cant do damage with his ranged attack innately.

[maiden smelt]

all he needs is cooldowns and like a lil warning at like pyramide head peace out im done with ts

[echo dune]

yeah its like how nemesis has to hit you 3 times to down to compensate for his tentacles range
same way the devs knew he is kinda strong thats why its 2 tokens before damage rolls in

[ripe bison]

Depending on how they handle it he might just end up like pyramid head but he cant injure by just hitting them with the power

[ripe bison]

Thats what Ive been saying

[eternal flax]

in q for 1 hour and a half and still didnt find a game

[ripe bison]

All the players are on 2v8

[noble silo]

they're gonna gut him on release, buff him to a half decent spot 2 weeks later and not touch him again for 3 years

[indigo quartz]

it is not easy to dodge i can also tell you probably haven't played against many competent firsts

with no indicators on the ground you must be playing in the future my bad son

i didn't realize i needed to be a jedi in order to play against this killer

[noble silo]

i have played like 40 games in the ptb as and against, some pretty good vecnas, if they don't have aura perks and you aren't in one of the worst tiles in the game you literally just play against him like reverse huntress unknown combo

[magic flint]

please tell me they brought legion back for 2v8

[indigo quartz]

both killers you just mentioned have cooldowns and repercussions for missing their projectiles in most cases

[queen radish]

real leak or fake?

[indigo quartz]

when does the first? he doesn't that's the problem

[ripe bison]

No indicator means its hard to mindgame it its really not that complicated.

[indigo quartz]

there's no disadvantage to just throwing that shit out man

[queen radish]

so fake then

[ripe bison]

Yes

[noble silo]

just hold W the slight speed penalty he gets is just enough if you don't let him come and hug you before hand, but yes just as everyone else there is zero counterplay and I hope he gets nerfed and we go back to 24/7 kaneki

[stuck jungle]

so does the new vecna perk that blows up gens have any actual synergies?

[ripe bison]

No

[stuck jungle]

oh

[echo dune]

It can activate DMS though right?

[ripe bison]

It does not count as kicking so it does not trigger anything like nowhere to hide or something

[ripe bison]

Yeah

[stuck jungle]

not even dead mans switch

[ripe bison]

Think of it as pain res but you can do it manually on a near by generator in direct sightline

[echo dune]

It can actiavte DMS if a survivor is on it and blows up

[stuck jungle]

thats nice

atleast it aint completely awful

[ripe bison]

Nah its decent

[stuck jungle]

they should atleast make it work through walls that would def help it

[ripe bison]

Its functionally like old pop frankly

[echo dune]

If it works throught walls it will settle into the meta like very hard, and considering how much Stake out and hyperfocus is ruining gen speeds i hope they do it

[ripe bison]

Feels like Behavior's response to people asking for basekit pop

[stuck jungle]

honestly that perk that give undetecteble after blocking gens is probably vecnas best perk

[ripe bison]

It didnt even need to have the block part .

[stuck jungle]

killers have few meta perks atleast there would be more variation

[echo dune]

Its very good with pain res DMS and also Corrupt so basically this killer has shaken up killer meta very nicely I love the fact, Killer meta has moved after along while

[ripe bison]

Ive just beeen running secret project on totem build

[echo dune]

yeah its very fun i did too on the first pretty nice

[ripe bison]

It triggering on blocks feels like too much and a very poinyless addition to me

[stuck jungle]

pain res dms is bad against swf

itll prob have better synergy with deadlock

[stuck jungle]

y bc there are very few ways to block gens?

[echo dune]

Tbh his last perk hive mind is pretty nice too, It can give really good info throughout the game and you can pair with secret project to make it better

[stuck jungle]

what that one do again

it didnt seem as cool as the other 2

[echo dune]

shows progress of all gens on map based on intensity of their auras

[stuck jungle]

insanely meh

[echo dune]

and when its 1 gen left damages it

[stuck jungle]

like ruin?

[plain quest]

Pain resonance is not bad against swf

[stuck jungle]

pain res dms

[plain quest]

Oops, that is what I meant

[stuck jungle]

it def is all u got to do is tell ur friend hop off the gen when u are getting hooked

and then dms is useless

[plain quest]

Dms lasts until someone gets off a gen

It doesn't go away

[stuck jungle]

its still meh

i miss when it was 50 seconds long

[plain quest]

You are calling the best perk combo 'meh', what exactly do you think is a good build against swfs

[stuck jungle]

nothing

bc then it js boils down to only using gen regression perks

[plain quest]

If anything 30 seconds makes it better on s tiers because they can activate it more often

[stuck jungle]

trying to trick me into thinking a nerf is actually a good thing

what if i dont play s tiers

[plain quest]

I said makes it better on s tiers, I am not trying to bamboozle you

[plain quest]

Then it's worse

[stuck jungle]

thats what i hate abt this game is that whenever a perk is too good on s tier they ruin it for every other killer

[plain quest]

How are s tiers ruining dms for every other killer

[stuck jungle]

not dms

they js nerfed that for no reason

[plain quest]

They nerfed it because it was one of the most popular and strongest gen slowdown perks which was incredibly dull to face

[stuck jungle]

make more perks that are actually good so people wont feel the need to use the same few meta perks

[plain quest]

Gen regression perks have been meta for almost 10 years

[ripe bison]

You can know to do that without someone telling you

The UI tells you if someone is being carried

[stuck jungle]

that not a good thing

[plain quest]

Sure, but what would be the alternative

[stuck jungle]

anti gen rush update

[ripe bison]

Make kicing generators damage them for 6% like surge does

[plain quest]

Explain how that would work

[stuck jungle]

idk they could figure something out though it cant b that hard

[ripe bison]

Again just make kicking generagors actually damage them a bit

[stuck jungle]

period

[ripe bison]

Make it 6% like surge or something

Thats it.

[stuck jungle]

gen kicking genuinely feels like a waste of time

[plain quest]

Gens are regressed by 5% already on a kick

[stuck jungle]

damn so they should make it 10 percent

[plain quest]

I don't think changing numbers is going to drastically alter the game

[stuck jungle]

maybe u right

[ripe bison]

Are they now? Figured it was like how they used to work

[plain quest]

Its been like this for years

[stuck jungle]

maybe make gen kicks do more damage every time a gen is completed

[plain quest]

Good survivors will always be efficient on gens

[stuck jungle]

ik but something is better than nothin

[plain quest]

The best base kit gen slowdown is tunnelling to get a 3v1

[stuck jungle]

killers arent allowed to tunnel remember

[plain quest]

I feel like you are arguing with the same logic that these survivor players use to try and nerf tunnelling

[stuck jungle]

possibly but from my memory they tried to do a whole anti tunnel update

[plain quest]

Sure but you suggested an '' anti gen rush'' update

[stuck jungle]

it wouldnt have to b anything big

[plain quest]

Bhvr are favouring survivor in recent patches simply because survivors make up the majority of the player base, likely buy more skins too

[stuck jungle]

its sad aint it

[plain quest]

Sure, but I wouldn't want the game to be killed favoured instead I just want it to be balanced

[echo dune]

Ok, let me clear this misconception up. The devs dont favour a side, if they did they wouldnt have given anything to the killers, in first itteration of the anti tunnel and slug they gave killers incentive and in the 2nd one too ( They were just bad changes not biased changes )

[stuck jungle]

not saying the game should b killer sided but killer should be the stronger side

ur suppose to b like threatening and stuff

[plain quest]

Bhvr have stated that on surveys the most common reasons for quiting the game were camping, slugging and tunnelling, so for the longevity of the game they would be nerfing these tactics

[stuck jungle]

their surveys dont have any reasons for why killer would delete the game

[echo dune]

As a 60/40 killer survivor, true bhvr have their faults but i can assure they arent at all biased in this matter.

[plain quest]

The incentives towards killers were pitiful, and the punishments were brutal and removed agency

[echo dune]

Thats why they were pulled back my friend

and in the last 2v8 kilers were given their own complaint section shows bhvr is listening now after community outrage

[plain quest]

They shouldn't have been done in the first place, and they tried the update twice

[echo dune]

Yeah, they did its better they try and miss then not try at all

[plain quest]

It's better to not try something awful and divert resources into something better instead

[stuck jungle]

last 2 v 8 was miserable

[plain quest]

Bhvr have a history of making completely OBVIOUSLY awful changes

It feels like the community has to fight bhvr to not push these updates through

[stuck jungle]

what really got me mad was when they nerfed leverage for no reason

[soft edge]

Lol

[ripe bison]

Tunneling is bad for the killer most of the time

[flat oracle]

I'd have some perspective, what you may see as an obvious thing is more than likely not that at all

[stuck jungle]

ye ok

[ripe bison]

Its actively detrimental on most killers unless the survivor is bad at looping

[plain quest]

This is not true, most survivors don't know how to counter tunnel and will throw the match trying to stop it

[echo dune]

I am trying to explain thats its better they try and miss than not try at all

[soft edge]

This is all map/killer/survivor team dependant.

[ripe bison]

Most killers are bad at it.

[soft edge]

@ripe bison most killers are just bad now...

[plain quest]

Are you saying that killers are bad at tunneling or that tunneling is a bad strategy

[stuck jungle]

he dont even know what he talking abt

[ripe bison]

Tunneling is a bad strategy on most killers unless the survivors are bad at looping.

[soft edge]

Just play the weakest link strategy ^^^

[ripe bison]

Goading the killer into chasing is an effective stratefy for a reason

[plain quest]

Are you suggesting that removing killers ability to kick gens if they kill someone before 6 hooks is not an obviously bad change

[flat oracle]

I think it's always valid to try something and see how it goes than just write something off right away. Also hindsight is 20/20 and all that

[ripe bison]

Comp corner is also a thing

[stuck jungle]

was this actuallyh a thing?

i cant remember

[ripe bison]

No

[flat oracle]

I think there is a difference between testing something that turns out to be bad/not viewed well and disliked by the community versus adding it to the live game without testing and then having to revert those changes.

[echo dune]

facts

[plain quest]

Bhvr has a history of pushing through hated changes

[flat oracle]

And that can be your opinion if you see it that way

[ripe bison]

It was in the krasue ptb as an antitunnel concept. Generator kicking was permanently locked out upon killing a survivor without hooking anyone but them

[soft edge]

@ripe bison you wasted that much time waiting for their timer to leave blows my mind

[stuck jungle]

Thats insane I forgot that literally hurts Michael pig and pyramid head

[plain quest]

Why does every killer in comp tunnel if this is the case

[fickle crane]

I consider comp and regular matches to be two very different types of games, so what is optimal in one might not be in the other

[plain quest]

Tunneling is only bad if survivors are average then?

[fickle crane]

This isn't like LoL esports where the people playing are on effectively the exact same version of the game. They're playing a version that's fairly different IMO

[plain quest]

I really don't understand how we are in 2026 and people think tunneling is a weak strategy

Forcing a 3v1 is the best gen pressure a killer has

[fickle crane]

Tunneling can be bad if you cannot be certain there is only one DS/DH/OTR or other such perks, or if you are in an environment where you are comfortable using perks that get benefit out of hooking (Pop, Turn Back the Clock, Grim Embrace), or if you can't quite predict the relative skill between different survivors.

Tunneling can be good in other situations, but I do genuinely think in regular matches of DBD, sometimes tunneling is genuinely just the wrong thing to do

[plain quest]

Comp players doing winstreaks in pub matches also tunnel every time

[flat oracle]

That's an interesting take on it and I think there can be a lot said about what is good for someone who is going more "comp" versus someone who is loading up the game to just play it and have fun. I personally don't think tunneling is that healthy or fun for the game so I do my best not to use it myself.

[plain quest]

The choice is play for 12 hooks (very ineffective) or tunnel (effective MOST of the time)

[plain quest]

Why is tunneling not healthy or fun for the game

[fickle crane]

I didn't say you have to play for 12 hooks. I just think tunneling someone straight out the gate is not always the best thing to do in your average match of DBD

[fickle crane]

I think the fact that it is cited as a top 3 reason that survivors uninstall the game is indicative that it is broadly disliked for reasons beyond it being effective in many situations

[plain quest]

It doesn't matter if in hindsight tunneling isn't 'always' the best play to make, my arguement is that it generally is

[flat oracle]

It's not fun forcing someone out of the game early so they can't play it, as you have no way of knowing if they can instantly move on to the next game because they're in a swf and have to now wait for their friends in that game, and I do think it can drive away players which I don't think could ever be considered healthy for a live service pvp game.

[plain quest]

This is like saying bring ds isn't that great because you may not get tunneled

[flat oracle]

I also value fun in the game over any version of "winning" so to me I would never want to win if it meant stomping the people against me to the point they didn't enjoy the match

[plain quest]

I have 3 messages to reply to, oh my

[stuck jungle]

Ds will literally become free for every survivor when Michael is removed

It also not fun being killer and forced out because you got gen rushed and the game was only 5 mins

[echo dune]

As a personal opinion that will give rise to everyone running DS into dead hard imo and its scary to me and just how they nerfed plaything penti they should do something about DS into deadhard

[stuck jungle]

They won’t

Maybe they might give ds cause exhaustion

[plain quest]

Just because something is disliked doesn't inherently mean it's bad, skull merchant had a 70% kill rate after her rework because survivors were dumb and thought she could still 3 gen, people still don't know to split up against Legion for example. My arguement here is that the game shouldn't be balanced around people who don't bother to learn any counter play to basic killer strats after the game has been out for ten years

Although this is more of a cultural issue which every game struggles with

[flat oracle]

I don't want that either, I'm not saying that one side deserves to have more fun than the other, I just don't ascribe to the idea that tactics in the game should stop people from being able to actively play it

[stuck jungle]

I don’t understand how anyone can enjoy a 5 min game

[plain quest]

It is in the nature of asymmetrical games that some people will occasionally lose agency

No one ever talks about this

If two sides have different mutually exclusive objectives then sometimes only one person will be able to complete theirs

[flat oracle]

There's a difference between people naturally losing agency via getting downed and hooked versus killers intentionally tunneling or slugging to make it so they don't get to have that agency for longer periods of time

[plain quest]

Also if someone dies before they can do '' anything'', then that is a problem from the survivors because hook timers are 140 seconds max - if someone dies at 5 gens then they got unhooked too early or cant loop whatsoever and the killer shouldn't be punished for survivor mistakes

[ripe bison]

Cant really speak for comp format if Im honest but I imagine its in large part due to rules regarding perks as well as the sorts of killers which are common within comp formats.

[plain quest]

You are phrasing this as if tunnelling and slugging are always malicious

[stuck jungle]

Period

[flat oracle]

You're twisting my words or not understanding me. If a survivor naturally just isn't good at chases and goes down quickly that is fine. If the killer intentionally slugs them and makes it so they can never get picked up or they ignore obvious easier targets and objectives just to take out the person they hooked most recently.

[plain quest]

And you seem to be suggesting that there needs to be some artificial limitation on the killer so that survivors can live longer

[flat oracle]

Because to me they are, but that is my opinion and that is why I am responding in this way. That's how discussions go

[ripe bison]

Decisive Strike is annoying but if its commonplace then knowledge of playing around it should be too

The perk works best when the killer doesnt do that.

[stuck jungle]

U don’t realize how it will be genuinely insane when everyone has it

[flat oracle]

Need? I don't know, I'm not a developer who knows enough about game balance. But the actual devs have been testing just that.

[stuck jungle]

It’ll def help new players though

[plain quest]

I think it's plain weird to believe that a killer trying to win inherently makes them an immoral person

[fickle crane]

The thing is, if there is counterplay that people don't want to engage in, that's the same thing as the counterplay not existing.

As a hyperbolic example, let's say that BHVR released a new killed called the Mathematician. To counter the killer, you have to solve three college-level algebra questions or else you instantly go down. In this case, counterplay does certainly exist, but survivors don't queue up to play DBD to solve algebra. That's not the type of counterplay they wish to engage in.

I don't play survivor, but I can only assume in most cases, being tunneled similarly requires a type of counterplay that is uninteresting to engage in. That's not necessarily the player's fault. I don't think it's necessarily an entitlement thing either. From what I have seen, survivors generally are willing to learn or engage with other forms of counterplay, but "git gud" isn't really an answer to systemic gameplay issues

[ripe bison]

Yeah and it will be a good teaching tool too for newer killers. Newer killers tend to go for tunnel vision without consideration for macro at all and the existence of this perk on survivors of a similar skill level forces the attension to macro.

[plain quest]

Artificial limitations always feel horrible because they unfairly remove agency

[flat oracle]

When did I ever say someone is immoral for using the tactics? Please stop putting words in my mouth to make your point

[stuck jungle]

i wonder if tunneling complaints will go down when everyone has DS

[ripe bison]

From my moderate survivor play and having a close relative who mains survivor, the main counter to tunneling is simply out preforming the killer in most scenerios

[plain quest]

I think this same way about sombra in overwatch, in that she has a very boring counterplay that most people don't want to deal with, but in dbd tunneling is about only chasing one person, and shouldn't being chased by the killer be the most fun part about survivor?

[ripe bison]

Tunnel vision only works when the person you are chasing struggles to evade you

[fickle crane]

I don't necessarily think so. I think there's something compelling in being four people together being hunted by one person, and you can work together in different ways. If you're tunneled out, you can't go for flashlight saves. You can't heal people. You can't work on gens. Some poeple might enjoy being tunneled because they find being chased fun, but it deprives them of the vareity of survivor

[ripe bison]

And if the killer isnt like, a Kaneki, Blight, etc whom excels specifically are singling out a survivor

[plain quest]

No, the counter play to tunneling (not accounting for perks) is to unhook at last second and do gens whilst the killer is camping, and if the killer is effectively pressuring gens and camping then bodyblocking for the injured survivor may be Necessary

[stuck jungle]

period

[plain quest]

Unhooking at the last second is such an incredibly basic thing that almost no one does

Is the type of tunneling counter play that people just cannot be bothered with?

[tawny bison]

Thats kinda rich

[plain quest]

You said these strategies were malicious, meaning you believe the killer Is trying to be mean whilst playing this way thus (at least while theyre playing the game) are immoral

This seems like a reasonable interpretation of what you said

[flat oracle]

We're having an actual discussion here, if you have issues with me there are avenues you can take that are not passive aggressive comments

[plain quest]

When you are being tunneled you are taking the focus of the killer away from your teammates, this feels like teamwork to me

[stuck jungle]

i can confirm this is ture

[flat oracle]

I don't think being malicious is quite the same as being moral/immoral, but you do you

[plain quest]

Define malicious

[fickle crane]

Yes, but what if you want to play a supportive healer, or you like watching progress bars go up, or set up boons? If you are tunneled, the variety of gameplay you get to experience is lessened.

[tepid tapir]

do you think baby nurses (people who struggle) will switch to new vecna seeing as the ability is similar in the Sense that he can hit through walls and pallets but is easier to pick up I was teaching a friend to play nurse and he gave up and said he would just wait for vecna which brought this idea to my head

[plain quest]

This feels like a one sided way of thinking, how is the killer meant to actually play the game if survivors playing out some fantasy takes priority over everything else

'' What if you want to 4k as blight but those pesky survs bring toolboxes and don't let you unhook? '' does this not sound silly to you

Do not play a pvp game if you believe only your own fun matters

[flat oracle]

Intent to do harm. I don't think that makes someone an inherently bad person if they do that in a video game of all things

[ripe bison]

Thats more of a counter to camping specifically rather than tunnelings though.

[plain quest]

Did you change your mind

[ripe bison]

If we are talking like, being efficient about ut

[fickle crane]

I did not say that. You are putting words into my mouth this time. I at no point insinuated that killer should not be allowed to win. I play killer exclusively and I try to win each of my matches. I just don't believe that tunneling encourages good gameplay for either side

[plain quest]

Camping and tunneling go hand in hand

[ripe bison]

Unless youre being efficient. Dumb tunnel vision vs singling out someone are a bit different.

If you get what I mean

[plain quest]

You tried to argue against tunneling by claiming that survivors can't do whatever they want because the killer focuses on them

[solar atlas]

If you play killer you should understand that sometimes tunneling is the only way to win a lost match

[tepid tapir]

No it doesn't you can absolutely apply pressure to another player then go back once the unhook happens to tunnel I do it all the time

[plain quest]

It appears that you only care about survivor fun

[plain quest]

Sure, look at the second half of my message where I say that if the killer is pressuring gens then you may have to protect the unhooked survivor with bodyblocks

[flat oracle]

No? You didn't magically change my mind by asking me to define some words

[fickle crane]

No, that is not the argument I made. The argument I made is that tunneling limits the variety of gameplay survivors can engage with.

[plain quest]

I misread your second message, oops

[tepid tapir]

Let me clear this up I'm a killer only player and support tunneling I was just suggesting a more efficient way to do it then camping cause u lose pressure when sitting and waiting ❤️

[plain quest]

Survivors being efficient on gens limits to variety of play the killer has

[plain quest]

I think it's selfish to believe that you should be able to play in any way possible without hinderance in pvp game

[tepid tapir]

My opinion is the rulebook that the community came up with needs to die out people who wanna play to win shouldn't have to adhere to rules that aren't in the game

[plain quest]

I guess the importance of camping and tunneling depends on your killers mobilty

[fickle crane]

No it does not. There is a difference between the two things. Even if you lose the game faster, you are losing the game in the same way each time, as survivors exclusively have one way to win the game. Tunneling makes you lose the game in a different way than dying at say... six hooks.

[tepid tapir]

True I only play nurse and blight

[plain quest]

Clown has to hang around hook whereas blight can pressure gens cross map when intending to tunnel

[stuck jungle]

very

[solar atlas]

Dbd is probably the only pvp game i have ever seen where you actively get harassed for applying a certain way of playing (to the point even devs get ways to prevent u playing that way)

[plain quest]

I don't understand why people are vilified for trying to win

[stuck jungle]

thats what i dont understand like killers have to do all these silent rules but survivors dont have anything like that

[plain quest]

Someone has said that tunneling is malicious

Trying to win has no bearing on your morality, it is absurd to claim otherwise

[fickle crane]

Then it is a very good thing that the person who said tunneling is malicious also clarified it does not make you a bad person to tunnel

[plain quest]

I'm not sure I understand this message, sorry

[solar atlas]

Exactly, survivors are allowed to genrush (are even encouraged to do so, since there are so many perks for it) and a bunch of other stuff, and they arent punished for it whatsoever

[flat oracle]

I have expressed multiple times this is just my opinion and not that it is or should be what everyone believes. I was explaining I think it is that way and that is why I do not tunnel in my own games because I do not like it myself and I find it malicious because it could hurt the game and make people not want to play it. Let me also add that I do not think all people who do tunnel are wrong or terrible people, because they can play how they want and not everyone is going to be like me and care about the fun of the other people in the game.

[plain quest]

So? It doesn't make you a bad person but it's still a mean thing to do? The semantics here are negligible they are still claiming trying to win is mean or 'bad'

[fickle crane]

Okay. Could I ask you to explain in what way survivors being efficient on generators limits the variety of killer gameplay in a way that is comparable to the way tunneling limits the variety of viable gameplay strategies survivors can engage with?

[plain quest]

A lot of people share your opinion though

[flat oracle]

Tunneling does not always mean the same thing as wanting to win as well

Someone could tunnel and not be intending to win but instead just really want to get a specific person

[plain quest]

I am talking about tunneling to win

People make anything into bm

[flat oracle]

Ah, I was talking mainly about the tunneling strategy in general then, not as a specific strategy to win

[tepid tapir]

I think once we stop giving reactions to it it will die out cause like of course I'm gonna tunnel and slug and whatever else I need to win the same way I'ma Gen rush to win once we stop taking Gen rush and tunnel as a insult and just a way to play the game we can finally get A DAMN RANKED MODE BEHAVIOR

[plain quest]

Do you think people mostly tunnel to be toxic

[solar atlas]

I think they should just show us the MMR, of both the killer and survivor, in the lobby. If u see someone way above u js leave and it would be way easier

Cs bhvrs string coding definitely cant make a ranked mode

[stuck jungle]

thats the problem ppl will js leave instead of play against u

[flat oracle]

It can be used to be toxic sure, just as it can be used to gain an advantage and force a 3v1 for an easier game. As for which one might be more likely? I would give the benefit of the doubt and assume most people would be doing it to win and not to just be toxic/troll people.

[solar atlas]

Yeah but it would be better than peoppe dcing mid match (which has happened to me so much) cs i get put w baby survivors

[tepid tapir]

Even if it's not a rank mode a better rank system would be nice

[stuck jungle]

its not as good as u think

[plain quest]

Okie dokie, half if not more of the entire killer roster cannot win against a gen efficient surv team, killers are also forced to run meta add ons and exclusively gen regression perks if they want to Consistently win, also killers are forced to go after specific survivors because if they spread pressure they lose, killers may be forced to m1 instead of using power in order to guarantee a hit in order to not waste time etc....

Killers have had no build variety for years and you genuinely don't believe survivors impact killer gameplay

[stuck jungle]

this is what i hate abt playing killer the most

[fickle crane]

Could I quickly ask. Did I, at any point, say that survivors do not impact survivor gameplay?

[solar atlas]

It would be better than whatever we have rn

Im playing w bots half the time anyway with how many people dc

[stuck jungle]

solo que js aint good

[tepid tapir]

If we had better Gen regression or Gen speeds were slower tunneling would die down I promise

[cunning kelp]

Yea it feels like you always have to run the same 4 perks just to stand a chance against gen speeds nowadays

[plain quest]

I was being hyperbolic, you suggested that killers are not nearly as impacted by survivors compared to vice versa

[solar atlas]

Genrushing is the main reason why killers tunnel bro

[cunning kelp]

Exactly

[plain quest]

Also to clarify I don't personally mind having to adapt gameplay in order to win

[cunning kelp]

But they’re the ones complaining that their games are too short

[tawny bison]

If i see someone tunneling or camping im assuming they're mad

[stuck jungle]

big problem with gens and genrushing is that not every killer can keep up even with meta perks specifically m1 killers

[cunning kelp]

Camping yes tunneling no, hard tunneling yes

[tepid tapir]

Re-read my statement you repeated me ??????

[elder grove]

thats literally what he said

[plain quest]

'' genrushing'' is a silly term, it implies there's something wrong with survivors doing gens fast, or at least that is mostly how I see it used

[solar atlas]

Dudr i was agreeig w u💀

[cunning kelp]

It’s not just that, it’s the amount of gen speed perks there are

[elder grove]

same thing could be said for tunneling and camping tho

[plain quest]

It's not a good mindset to assume someone trying to win is mad

[tawny bison]

Tunneling in any sense. What's the difference though, so im aware

[plain quest]

Even when I play dbd with my brain turned off I'm still tunneling

[tawny bison]

I see the win conditions, for a killer, is to be able to farm as much BP off survivors as possible

[plain quest]

I agree

[tawny bison]

Or if were going by survivors deaths, it should be 3 deaths for a win

[cunning kelp]

It’s almost like killers don’t like having their games end in 3 minutes while the ques take 10 minutes

[plain quest]

For someone who cares about gameplay and winning bp is not that important

[tepid tapir]

Tunneling is a silly term it implies there's something wrong with a killer killing really fast

[plain quest]

Survivors are not doing gens in 3 minutes

[solar atlas]

Bhvr already considers 3k a win for killer

[cunning kelp]

I’m exaggerating

But it definitely feels like it

[tepid tapir]

Yea the actual time is 2 min and 30 sec

[tawny bison]

That should only be against SWF teams though. If its against solos, then one escape is a loss

[plain quest]

Killers are tunneling me at 5 gens every game🤬

[tawny bison]

I got tunneled against the telechick

[plain quest]

Is someone hiding in a corner and getting hatch a loss for killer

[tepid tapir]

That's actually dumb AF so killers can kill 90 percent of the team and lose in your eyes

[solar atlas]

Have u seen endgame survivor bro😭 the hatch can literally spawn next to u it shouldnt be a loss

[tawny bison]

If the whole team is failing and you dont see them doing gens. Theres alot of survivors that join with no intention of doing gens

[tawny bison]

If its solos, theres no team. Its 4 individuals

[tepid tapir]

If it can work late game why not try it off the bat for extra pressure

[tawny bison]

Just down the second last survivor

[plain quest]

Yes I bring lethal pursuer to optimise the tunnel

[tepid tapir]

It's a 4v1 even if there not talking it 4 with 1 goal against 1 with a goal that's a team

[solar atlas]

Dude we're talking abt 1v1

[tawny bison]

If i cant give directions to my team, it ain't a team. Its 4 mutes out for themselves

[solar atlas]

If u got a 3k how can u down the second last if theyre already dead

[tawny bison]

Dont let it get to 1v1

[solar atlas]

The other person could be hiding

[tawny bison]

Caw caw

Open your ears

[tepid tapir]

No one conciders 3k a loss except losers in endgame chats who are mad

[plain quest]

It's 4 people working together

[tawny bison]

3k against solos is. 3k against SWF is a win, just past a draw

[potent wadi]

can u do vecnas adept achievement in ptb?

[void needle]

Never mind me, just looking for the PTB Discussion channel. I think I must have taken a wrong turn.

Could've sworn it was here!

[tawny bison]

If theres no comms, its 4 individuals trying to make it to gates. Sure there can be the odd working together, but its too far between.

[tepid tapir]

Least obvious survivor main " you can't beat me if you follow my rules" ahhhhh

[tawny bison]

I main nemi and ace

[void needle]

No, because these achievements are not in the game yet.

[potent wadi]

oh alr

[solar atlas]

Honestly i was confused too when i opened this chat and it was just talk abt tunneling😭

[void needle]

Besides, you can't progress anything in the PTB since it's a seperate save.

[tawny bison]

Its kinda hard to not hear the caw caw at the locker or the chuga chuga of the generator

[potent wadi]

ik

[plain quest]

It's awkward to move a conversation to another channel, sorry

[fickle crane]

I maintain this. What you have described is, in my opinion, not comparable to the way in which tunneling limits the variety of gameplay options killers can engage with.

Now, I would like to clarify what I mean by "comparable." I do not mean "to a similar degree." I mean in a manner akin to the way that if you are being tunneled, other fundamental aspects of your role are denied to you. I agree with you that "genrushing" is a silly term, but I will use it here for the sake of brevity to refer to survivors being efficient on gens.

If the survivors genrush, that does put pressure on the killer to play well. Similarly, if the killer is good at chase or can apply map pressure effectively, that puts pressure on survivors to play well. However, aspects of playing well for survivor include things such as knowing when to reset, knowing when to go for saves, hitting skill checks, and so on.

Splitting pressure is still a viable strategy on many killers. You can run stealth builds, chase builds, slowdown builds, aura builds, and still find success. Sometimes, these strategies are harder, and someone may default to going with a more reliable build or strategy, but the other options are not closed off to you. You can still choose to dedicate yourself to learning how to engage with them. Sometimes, they're just harder.

A survivor cannot choose not to be tunneled. When you are tunneled, the other options are closed off. You cannot heal if you are being chased, and you cannot go for saves if you are the one being downed. This is what I mean by certain gameplay aspects being denied to you.

[tepid tapir]

Back to the ptb Vecna is nurse for baby nurses who can't play nurse #nurseforlifefuckvecnaofbrandahhhh

[tawny bison]

I maintain this. What you have described is, in my opinion, not comparable to the way in which tunneling limits the variety of gameplay options killers can engage with.

Now, I would like to clarify what I mean by "comparable." I do not mean "to a similar degree." I mean in a manner akin to the way that if you are being tunneled, other fundamental aspects of your role are denied to you. I agree with you that "genrushing" is a silly term, but I will use it here for the sake of brevity to refer to survivors being efficient on gens.

If the survivors genrush, that does put pressure on the killer to play well. Similarly, if the killer is good at chase or can apply map pressure effectively, that puts pressure on survivors to play well. However, aspects of playing well for survivor include things such as knowing when to reset, knowing when to go for saves, hitting skill checks, and so on.

Splitting pressure is still a viable strategy on many killers. You can run stealth builds, chase builds, slowdown builds, aura builds, and still find success. Sometimes, these strategies are harder, and someone may default to going with a more reliable build or strategy, but the other options are not closed off to you. You can still choose to dedicate yourself to learning how to engage with them. Sometimes, they're just harder.

A survivor cannot choose not to be tunneled. When you are tunneled, the other options are closed off. You cannot heal if you are being chased, and you cannot go for saves if you are the one being downed. This is what I mean by certain gameplay aspects being denied to you.

Really?

[fickle crane]

I do not know what you mean by this message

[tepid tapir]

Bros the least obvious survivor

[solar atlas]

Vecna is nurse 2.0 but worse

[tawny bison]

Okay new guy

[sinful zinc]

i think they should give eleven a telekinetic pallet drop in 3-1 meters range and her nose bleed no side effects from bleed and there's a 1 minute and 5 second cooldown i feel like this would be great for eleven

[plain quest]

No

Respectfully

[tepid tapir]

Honestly they should give leon a gun and have him be able to kill any b ranked or lower killer

[plain quest]

This goes back to the fundamental nature of a 1v4 game, the killer must have more agency than the survivor, if this is unfun to you then it's a much deeper conversation than about tunneling

I think part of why dbd succeeds and why it's competitors fail is because the killer is allowed to actually kill survivors

[fickle crane]

I just believe that in your average match of DBD, the killer is capable of winning without tunneling, and because I think tunneling makes the game a worse experience for everyone, one should strive to avoid it when possible

[tawny bison]

Killers really do want that win condition lol I just want back old hatch mechanics

Best thing ever

[solar atlas]

U mean when one person would die and the other 3 would get hatch

[plain quest]

Somebody has gone on a 300 winstreak as perk less plague, of course when you go against low skilled players you can play as you want

[tawny bison]

That one. Was so cash. You have to be last out now

[echo dune]

as much as i agree tunneling is a necessary evil that should be avoided but i disagree with this hatch mechanic i dont want to go back to a key opening hatch and all 4 escaping

[solar atlas]

Its incredibly stupid and unbalanced bro

[fickle crane]

Well yes. That's my point. In your average match of DBD, you are not facing comp team survivors, and so on average, tunneling is not required

[tepid tapir]

Saying your average game of dbd should be played like anything is a irrelevant statement until they add a mode that caters to comp players it's just a game of dbd rn not a comp or casual game it can be played however

[echo dune]

Ok as much as i respect your opinion, all matches i play there are people who run that hyperfocus stake out builds which force me to either tunnel or lose

[plain quest]

I think we should allow people to play as they want

[tawny bison]

It was so fun though. Killers complaining about it ruined it 😒

[fickle crane]

This has not been my experience admittedly

[tawny bison]

Nah, it was perfect. You had perks to prevent it, so it was balanced

[fickle crane]

Or rather, the Hyperfocus/Stakeout players have not made me feel as though I need to tunnel, despite their relative efficiency on gens

[tawny bison]

If youre tunneling, you should try switching it up

[echo dune]

trust me when one loses 3 gen because of a 30 seconds chase it really messes with the will to play the game

[tawny bison]

Should be patrolling

[echo dune]

I dont actively tunnel unless i am forced to in a 4 alive and 2 gen scenario

[fickle crane]

While this is good in the abstract, I do believe that in certain cases, limits to agency generally improve the health of a system. As a hyperbolic example, outlawing murder is a limit to agency, but in its limitation, the health of a society is improved

[echo dune]

at the start of the game? when the first chase is 30 seconds?

[solar atlas]

What r u on abt bro😭 almost every match i go theres survivors running meta builds, doesnt matter if ur not comp it doesnt stop surviors from popping one gen the moment i commit to a chase longer than 20 seconds

[tawny bison]

I dont even tunnel at gates, will you stop hahaha

[plain quest]

Could you pick a better analogy than murder

[tawny bison]

Maybe dont partake in it, especially if theyre trying to lead you away from the gens being doing.

[fickle crane]

Outlawing theft is a limit to agency, but in its limitation, the health of society is generally improved?

[plain quest]

But these are all crimes

[echo dune]

you got a way to counter hyperfocus stake out builds with bnp share with the class please

[fickle crane]

Hence the hyperbole

[plain quest]

You are comparing something which is objectively bad and harmful to a meta strategy in a game

[autumn mirage]

Is the PTB any good so far?

[autumn mirage]

This would require you to know if they are comp or newbies before the match which is not possible

[languid zephyr]

Bruh can I just get a new batch of Steve skins already, they aren't giving any attention to my goat

[echo dune]

Its good, killer is not broken and the game isnt broken perks are good so a solid 8/10

[autumn mirage]

Unless the MMR system is good eventually playing DBD is like throwing a coin you either get baby survivors or tryhards

[languid zephyr]

I'd be happy with literally just one

[solar atlas]

U can be an experienced player without being comp tho

[autumn mirage]

I saw Sadako T posing on the mori, anything else?

[fickle crane]

The only thing that could ever limit my desire to play the game is a nerf to Nurse's Calling

[plain quest]

All this guys problems with the game would be a fixed with a simple Steve skin, I'm envious

[echo dune]

wait fr lol? well looks like something is broken

[autumn mirage]

Yeah but my point is that most matches you either get people with 50k hours or people with under 50 hours, MMR system is a mess

[autumn mirage]

I will check when i get home myself lmao i need to see it

[echo dune]

it happending in the krasue update too

[languid zephyr]

Yep pretty much, he's my favorite character, although I do want them to show some love to deathslinger

[solar atlas]

Yeah especially on solo q, sometimes 2 people have 20k and the other 2 survivors have green perks

[fickle crane]

Yes. It's a hyperbole. I am comparing two things which, while they may be capable of getting someone something that they want, I believe damages the overall health of the systems they exist within.

[autumn mirage]

Nurse calling should be 28 meters long but affect not only healing but also stuff like snapping from doctor madness, waking up from dream world, etc

[plain quest]

But I could argue tunneling isn't bad, you couldn't argue that murder is good

[fickle crane]

Finally! Doctor has a way to track survivors

[autumn mirage]

Reminds me of the snail Kaneki on last PTB, if you used your power you would become permanently slower than survivors

[fickle crane]

Well yes. But I am arguing tunneling is bad. You can say you do not believe the analogy is apt. That is why I am making it and you are not

[autumn mirage]

I have gotten matches where i face people with 20k hours and win just to get next match survivors running into walls or obstacles

[autumn mirage]

I wish we had more universal perks that interact with killer mechanics

Like a perk that makes any kind of time power like yk UVX effect, Infections, Doctor spark addon, etc all last longer

[fickle crane]

I believe the original version of Tinkerer used to work like that, where it made all progress bars charge up faster

[solar atlas]

Mmr is js a concept atp

[autumn mirage]

Or how every single killer got 2 addons that do mangle and hemorrage

I wish we had sloppy butcher version for every m2 power so bhvr stop giving every killer 2 addons with hemmorage and mangle

[plain quest]

Imagine if I said people should be forced to share, because there are some things in the world that shouldn't be allowed like murder and not sharing should be similarly disallowed

[autumn mirage]

Yeah i saw it before and personally i wish we still had stuff like that, yes it doesnt do anything with some killers but we already got perks like that nowdays 💀 Nurse literally cannot use any m1 perk

[autumn mirage]

Mmr is a social experiment

[plain quest]

Everyone gets to max mmr too easy and can't de rank so everyone is at max mmr

It is amusing when killer mains make titles like MAX MMR GAMEPLAY INTENSE MATCH

[autumn mirage]

Tunneling is not bad in any way, is the same logic that survivors do when choosing to repair the gens on a 3 gen rather than the corner gen, both options get a gen done but choosing the most efficient gen gives you advantage same with deciding to focus 1 survivor

Tunneling is just an strategy to get an advantage

[solar atlas]

Doesnt mmr get lowered for losing tho

[autumn mirage]

Same way survivors got the same stuff on breaking 3 gens, doing multiple generators, splitting, etc

[plain quest]

I think the lack of restrictions is one of the main things keeping dbd alive

[autumn mirage]

I think he means the rank you level up not the invisible one

[fickle crane]

That is not comparable to what I said. I am making the argument of how limitations can improve the health of a system. I am saying preventing people from doing things in some cases can have positive outcomes. The sharing example is one in which you are suggesting people are forced to do something.

[tawny bison]

Yeah, wake up and listen for the gens. Trying running discordance if you cant see

[plain quest]

I believe (could be wrong) that there are certain brackets of mmr that once you move in, you cannot move down

[fickle crane]

What I mean by "bad" is that I believe the fact the game is designed in such a way that at times, tunneling is the optimal strategy creates ripple effects that are negative for the overall health of the game. I am not saying you are bad, immoral, or wrong to engage in it (though I do think it is better if one does not)

[autumn mirage]

This logic doesnt work when you look at what happens when a game tries to force an artificial meta, remember when bhvr nerfed to the ground all the passive slowdown perks and then hyperbuffed all the kick slowdown? That artificial meta became miserable

[solar atlas]

Ohh, i didnt know that

Theres a lot of p100 survivors that ive went against that werent that good at all honestly

[autumn mirage]

But this is fixed by making it not be the best strategy rather than trying to punish it, like how in roguelike games devs nerf the strongest items instead of buffing the weakest so people wanna play different stuff

The best fix for tunneling is making new survivors have a way of learning the game and giving rewards for unique hooks

[fickle crane]

You can make an artifical meta. You just have to do it well. I have no issues with BHVR insisting on a certain meta if it's implemented well.

Whether or not such a thing can feasibly be done is a different question. I think it's possible, just tricky.

[plain quest]

I agree that limitations can be good, like not allowing killers to mori survivors with a single hook for example, but not allowing or heavily restricting a killers ability to complete their objective is not a healthy change imo

[autumn mirage]

I honestly disagree with my experience seeing it and in different examples but lets agree to disagree lmao

[autumn mirage]

We need both sides changes

[plain quest]

Imagine if survivors did too many gens relative to the killer hook stages so they recieved a gen speed nerf or all gens were blocked for 30 seconds

[autumn mirage]

I would be happy with anti tunneling if it comes along with anti gen rush or anti sabo or anti staying in endgame to all 4 t bag at gates lmao

[plain quest]

I would rather not have 'anti' mechanics

[autumn mirage]

Imagine if survivors make 3 gens before killer gets 4 hook so the entity instatly mori one

[autumn mirage]

Same but i talk of how it could have worked

[fickle crane]

Let me use an example.

In League of Legends, in most normal queues, the jungle role is required to pick the smite summoner spell, and no one else is allowed to take it. This does limit player freedom and agency. I also think it is a positive change for the game.

[plain quest]

These are all bandaid fixes, a core issue with the design of the game that needs to be artificially fixed

[tawny bison]

Drops an extra generator out of the sky on the closest Claudette

[autumn mirage]

Anti tunnel, slugging and camping all were doom to fail because making an update ALL about butchering killers strat while leaving all the survivor OP stuff untouched will never not be seen one sided

[plain quest]

Such as hatch existing because the last survivor would just hide otherwise

[autumn mirage]

Drops a generator on basement

[fickle crane]

I did not say that killers should not be allowed to complete their objective. I just believe that the game systems should be designed in such a way that they are generally dissuaded from tunneling and instead are encouraged to engage in other strategies

[tawny bison]

Trappers dream

[autumn mirage]

Bubba dream

[autumn mirage]

Buffing unique hooks and perks like pain res for example

[tawny bison]

Old bbq and chili worked so well for this

[autumn mirage]

If we had a 10% basekit pain res on unique hooks tunneling would heavily decrease

[plain quest]

It would not

Killers tunnel to force to the 3v1

[autumn mirage]

How? Its a great slowdown alternative in pressure

[plain quest]

10% regression does not beat a 3v1 in terms of gen pressure

[autumn mirage]

You can either focus a survivor to get a 3v1 but lossing most gens or get multiple hooks while also getting a free slowdown and information

[autumn mirage]

I could see it being 20% but i drop a number randomly

[plain quest]

Free pain resonance that the killer can use alongside tunneling

[autumn mirage]

Getting a pain res for every unique hook for me would make tunneling a lot less tempting

[plain quest]

Or you do both

[autumn mirage]

The pain res would only trigger if your next hook is not the same person as last one

[plain quest]

Go back and forth between two people

[solar atlas]

Pain res is often used alongside tunneling

[autumn mirage]

So you are forced to do unique hooks and once one person dies the basekit pain res gets turn off

[plain quest]

Even if you are tunneling one person you still get pain resonance on first hook

[autumn mirage]

Then that isnt tunneling, is playing smart

[fickle crane]

They need to bring back the 10% post-match BP bonus per unique hook.

[autumn mirage]

Yeah but because you can keep using it when 3v1 in scourage hooks, i talk of basekit that gets turn off once anyone dies

[autumn mirage]

I dont really care about this ngl they should buff BP gain in general

[plain quest]

How would you suggest the game should be changed so that spreading hooks creates effective pressure

[fickle crane]

I don't know. I'm not a game designer.

[plain quest]

I understand that, but everytime I ask this question no one can give an answer

[autumn mirage]

I think would be good idea to bring the first anti tunnel buffs for unique hook but if someone dies before 6 hooks instead of penalties you just get the bonus for unique hooks gone, so no more 20% pop, BBQ and haste for example

[plain quest]

Small buffs will not persuade a killer to not tunnel

[fickle crane]

I will say I actually don't necessarily like the idea of basekit BBQ, mainly because if it's basekit on every killer, survivors will expect it and play around it.

[plain quest]

BP incentives would persuade casual players probably

[autumn mirage]

I said for example, we can switch what the bonus are or anything but the idea is that

[autumn mirage]

But this s true, on the PTB everyone went on lockers when you were about to hook someone so BBQ basekit did nothing

[plain quest]

We want bbq to be useful

[fickle crane]

I LOVE BBQ!!!!!!

[plain quest]

If baseskit then everyone counters it all the time

[fickle crane]

Probably my second favorite perk in the game

[autumn mirage]

Would be cool if not to make Friends till the end basekit instead of BBQ but always triggers on person with least hooks

You get them exposed and aura read so you can have a quick chase if you are on great position

[plain quest]

The fundamental issue here is that 4 ppl is too many to handle for 1 person, unless that 1 person was completely op. And small buffs or nerfs will not change this, although it's difficult to imagine a 1v4 in which is fair for both sides and the 1 doesn't need to focus on one person to Consistently win

[fickle crane]

This is kind of tricky for me to answer because I already think the average killer can perform fine without tunneling in most matches. I don't want to buff killer too much for doing so. I personally think that the stronger unhook protections in 9.3.0's PTB, combined with a small bonus on unique hooks would make sense.

If I had to think of something, I would say each time all survivors are hooked once, all generators start bleeding. Generators not being worked on start regressing (slightly faster than basekit regression) and repairing is slowed down slightly. The bleeding can last for 10-15 seconds, though generators keep regressing even after they stop bleeding.

[plain quest]

I think the community would be happier if they accepted tunneling as part of the game and just played around it

[autumn mirage]

I feel like mobility is also a huge issue, map pressure is so important that the difference beetwen having Blight mobility and Trapper speed creates a giant gap

[solar atlas]

Assymetrical horror games will never be completely fair on both sides

[plain quest]

That is the issue

[autumn mirage]

Which is also why many maps are killer or survivor sided, the size and time it takes to get from one side to other

For killers without mobility the time they take walking to a survivor is time other killers are already in chase

[plain quest]

Mobility helps the 1 pressure the 4 more effectively

[autumn mirage]

And switchs huge the options you can have

If you got no mobility most the times you cannot afford to pick who you chase, you pick who you find or else you loss long time searching for someone else

But with Blight for example nowhere in the map is too far from some rushes

[plain quest]

This is an unpopular opinion but I think blight is the best designed killer as he can consistently play around most tiles, and has the mobility to quickly traverse between different survivors

[upbeat raptor]

PTB is great, been really enjoying First.
…
So why am I getting the urge to make people play against Kaneki on the PTB?

[plain quest]

So you can test kaneki with and against the new perks?

[autumn mirage]

Because Kaneki is incredibly fun

[sterile timber]

hi again guys, how are y'all?

[autumn mirage]

Mika username is decorated cool

[autumn mirage]

Im fast (im on a train)

[sterile timber]

ty<3

[autumn mirage]

And tbf PTB is also a great moment to try killers to know if you wanna buy them

[autumn mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/muhehehe-gif-11037525145585928229

I am so mad at last PTB

I couldnt test Kaneki because he was useless broken at PTB

[solar atlas]

I cant tell if myers is bugged cs i dont go into chase until i get hit

[plain quest]

If he's undetectable than the chase only starts when he hits you

[daring vessel]

Bro the wait times for killer are so crazy. It's actually impossible to play killer.

[vapid salmon]

Do all the new surivors (and legendary skins) have voicelines?

[simple heron]

yes, it was mentioned in the patch notes that the voicelines will be available for the live release

[vapid salmon]

cheers

[lethal remnant]

So far if his vine attack doesn’t get nerfed what tier is this vecna?

[daring vessel]

Can anyone confirm if Shattered Wrist Rocket works with Eruption or Pop or Nowhere to Hide?

[fluid fern]

it doesnt

[daring vessel]

Damn.

[tight wren]

guys the nancy rework is so incredibly atrocious

I am a Nancy main and I loved the way she looked, now she doesnt even look like nancy

I beg please dont make this change🙏

[fickle crane]

I am hesitant to give tier list placements for new characters but I'd comfortably say around A-ish

[plain quest]

Bad model with good likeness versus good model with bad likeness

[flint oyster]

okay gamers yall got any fun vecna builds

im practicing getting good at him in the ptb cause i love this guy and wanna play him when this hits live

[fickle crane]

I couldn't give a fun build in its entirety, but I'd recommend Nurse's Calling+Monitor and Abuse. Those two perks together let you get a ton of hits through walls on unsuspecting survivors. Alternatively you could run Unforeseen instead of MaA for a similar effect

[ornate hazel]

is the next event chaos shuffle or 2v8?

[plain quest]

2v8

[tight wren]

yuh

like, i dont wanna play nancy tbh if they keep it

[daring vessel]

Can WE PLEASE buff Nemo's whip in 2v8? I aim it AT the survivor and it still doesn't hit. Wtaf.

[winged kraken]

im pretty sure thats a bug
ive experienced it too

[daring vessel]

I'm literally seeing the miss animation splash at the survivor, yet it's a miss and not a hit.

They need to buff the whip hitbox width.

[winged kraken]

its probably just a hitreg bug
its not intentional

[daring vessel]

I love hitreg bugs! My favorite!

[winged kraken]

its ptb the t stands for torture

[daring vessel]

Lost my match to that.

[daring vessel]

Oh yeah definitely.

I still think his whip hitbox width needs a buff tho.

[spring thunder]

anyone up to duo kill?

[daring vessel]

I would if the queue wasn't an hour long.

Plus when I play killer survivors are the most efficient players in the world, but when I play survivor I get headless chickens for teammates that don't do gens and killers on steroids with thousands upon thousands of hours.

[cunning kelp]

Check it in a custom match

[cunning kelp]

Sometimes the Que times are 45 minutes and other times you’re in in about 10 seconds, even tho the it says 15 or 14 minutes

[spring thunder]

well the thing is i don't play to get pissed, i just want to play the game as it is and have fun with what i can

no need to stress about who does what when nothing matters

and who cares if the other team mates suck, quicker you get into next game

[grave sparrow]

can we bring back old nancy

[stoic crypt]

no she looks horrible

new nancy looks decent in game, she just looks off in the lobby

u want this ?

[grave sandal]

That face is tunnel worthy

[daring vessel]

It's always 40+ minutes for me.