ptb-discussion

[celest hare]

And it'd be less effective

[gray night]

Or their exhaust cd

[tiny granite]

Then if they put this through they’d better be ready for their entire killer base to vanish

[gray night]

It’s way worse than live

Thinking syringe is more powerful now is just incorrect

[valid tide]

I think the high tier, high mobility killers should have a slower base movespeed, and the lower tier killers should be a little more threatening

[wary hamlet]

Bhvr will probably add killer bots before ever even thinking of addressing complaints killers have if killers start to leave in droves lol

[low quarry]

Gotta disagree, at least you as a killer have some time to down the survivor before the effect got through but with this change it'll guarantee more chase time and distance

[gray night]

Two health states is always better

[low quarry]

Those two health states weren't always guaranteed though

[wary hamlet]

The wicked resurgence shit is actually insane

[low quarry]

2 sprint bursts will now though

[wary hamlet]

If that goes to live every killer is avoiding basement like the plague

[gray night]

2 health states and 2 sb aren’t guaranteed

[tiny granite]

If it goes live killers are just gonna leave

[wary hamlet]

Or that yeah

[celest hare]

You're still being very dramatic 💔 you're talking like this current PTB is the last one and even then it's still a PTB

[low quarry]

Yes they will be lmao

[valid tide]

Enough about all this though - let's talk about those killer bots...

[wary hamlet]

Whats gonna stop people from rocking boil over with wicked and resurgence and purposefully going down in basement lmao

[gray night]

You can’t have it both ways

[low quarry]

Use sb, pre drop, use syringe, sb again

Or literally just gain enough distance, pop the syringe, and be on your way with another sb

[gray night]

That’s saying this “use sb don’t get hit use sb again”

[wary hamlet]

Other survivors can just sabo the hooks near killer shack also

[low quarry]

Why do you think people run sb?

[gray night]

Use live syringe don’t get hit

Heal

[wary hamlet]

So you’ll be forced to hook in basement or drop them either way is bad since basekit unbreakable

[gray night]

Why do you think people use syringe lol ?

To just get hit during its duration

Are these bots as survivors you face

How about for someone else as well

[wary hamlet]

I think elusive as a status effect for unhooks survivors is neat but like

[low quarry]

The point is that there is still some counterplay to the current syringe because you still have time to prevent its effect from going through

[gray night]

It’s gone now

You aren’t using a syringe on anyone now

[celest hare]

All the changes I want

Anti-camp: maybe a range decrease but I think it's almost in a fantastic spot, I haven't seen the 20m be an issue
Anti-slug: maybe survivors close to the slugged survivor slow down the resolve bar filling up? Like how it is with the anti-camp
Anti-tunnel: bring back basekit BBQ from the last PTB, off-hook benefits 30s -> 20s, elusive removes collision but attacks prioritise players with collision to kill using basekit endurance aggressively, grant endgame players elusive too (what's the harm? With the aforementioned no collision it'd be a killer buff)
Wicked: 50% -> 25%
Resurgence: 70% -> 50%
Breakdown: 100% -> 50%
Syringe and hook bloodlust: not sure, but syringe's probably op and the bloodlust is underbaked and too weak

[wary hamlet]

They shouldn’t have endurance and haste for so long and should not have wallhacks on the killer period

They can keep elusive but that other stuff has gotta be dialed back

[low quarry]

But now a survivor can GUARANTEE a longer chase and more distance instead of taking the risk of being downed before getting fully healed

[gray night]

I can do that already with syringe though

[celest hare]

What do we think? I think it'd make the update great

[gray night]

And it’s just a better version as I can help my teammates as well

Now I just pop double sb and yippee

So what

[wary hamlet]

I think bringing basekit bbq and pop back is def the play

[tiny granite]

Not really being dramatic when hard survivor mains are the only people who think this update is valid

[celest hare]

I don't have much of an opinion on the other content, I don't necessarily think they're fine, like furtive chase's change

[celest hare]

Dude with what I'm saying how would it be much different to live lol?

[wary hamlet]

Give killers a good reason to not tunnel you out. Basekit pop alone I think is a pretty good reward for unique hooks and bbq as well makes it even better

[low quarry]

Okay but serious question, why did wicked even need a buff in the first place lol. I always felt like it already did what it was supposed to do when activated

[gray night]

I’m just excited mostly for less killer Que from the drama queens

Plus my SM changes

[wary hamlet]

I don’t understand why bhvr cant get it through their thick skulls that punishing killers for killing is not the play lmao

Positive incentives for stretching the game out via spreading hooks is the play

[gray night]

You’re right

Bring back hook grabs

[celest hare]

Good question haha but I think with 25% it'd be okay? And I'm thinking it'd be like live resurgence if resurgence was 50%, since 70% is just way too much but if you bring two perks you get it back situationally

[fathom bane]

if hook grabs come back, fuck it, hatch grabs too. hatch standoffs!!!

[low quarry]

I think you'd understand the issue more if you viewed it in a low tier killer's perspective. Especially with this pallet density update, guaranteed distance is extremely strong and even more so than a health state in some cases

[celest hare]

Survivors get a chance off hook to avoid being hard tunnelled but can still be tunnelled, no off-hook insta heal bs, healthy anti-slug, and healthy anti-camp. All good for the health of the game, nothing too dramatic. I think it'd be really good

[gray night]

No I main current SM

[low quarry]

Then why are you advocating for this change? I don't understand cause it would only make your chases more difficult

[gray night]

Low tier killers are above me

Well not for long anyways but we moving up to c tier finally

[valid tide]

I queued up for a survivor game in the PTB and the killer immediately tunneled someone out of the game

[celest hare]

LMAO

[trail sleet]

this is my second ptb do u get 10k auric everu ptb or for ur first one?

[celest hare]

You have to be pretty bad to let that happen 😭

[wary hamlet]

The survivor who got tunneled must have been absolutely awful to let this happen

[low quarry]

1 hour gamers

[celest hare]

I'm really happy with this lol

[gray night]

Couple reasons

[valid tide]

Killer was on Hillbilly - he'd just dash straight back to the hook if the guy got off, and then ride him for 30 seconds to down him

[low quarry]

Remind me how long breakdown's healing effect lasts for pls

[wary hamlet]

Any survivor with a braincell with these changes isnt getting tunneled unless its a top tier killer like nurse doing it

[valid tide]

Agreed yeah

But it shows that killers are and will forever be stubborn creatures

[celest hare]

90s same with the hook being broken, which I think is fine and I like that they line up 😭

[trail sleet]

this is my second ptb do u get 10k auric everu ptb or for ur first one?

[celest hare]

Think especially fine with my nerf proposal

[low quarry]

90s is a lot, but for 50% (the change ur suggesting) then maybe

[gray night]

Idek why breakdown needed the healing thing added

[valid tide]

It's every PTB - they're temporary, so the cells and anything you buy with them don't carry over to the live build of the game, but it's so that people can use the PTB to test out any new cosmetics or even try ones they don't own

[celest hare]

GUYS GUYS GUYS, what if we reduce sb, balanced, smash hit, and lithe's speed boost by 1s?

[valid tide]

and/or buy new killers or survivors

[low quarry]

Same but I guess it was kinda useless before so

[celest hare]

Oh and overcome whatever's equivalent

[trail sleet]

but the things u bought in the last ptb saves over?

[gray night]

Overcome would then become the most powerful

But you can’t get hit twice with overcome

[valid tide]

No

[celest hare]

I actually like the change generally

[low quarry]

Honestly we don't need more buffs to healing in this meta lol

[valid tide]

Or, at least they shouldn't?

[wary hamlet]

The only thing I really have a issue with in this ptb that imo has to get changed asap is the endurance/haste on unhook lasting waaaay too long and certain perk changes (wicked resurgence combo moment lol)

[celest hare]

"Oh and overcome whatever's equivalent" forgot about it LOL

[trail sleet]

alr alr ty

[wary hamlet]

Furtive getting gutted also sucks

[celest hare]

Healing and gen rushing need nerfs as a whole I think

[valid tide]

We gotta kill the BNP

[low quarry]

Forgot about that and I agree. Never viewed furtive and it's combos (such as ftte) as an issue

[celest hare]

Someone downvoted my perk changes forum post LMFAO

[gray night]

I don’t really see the issue with it

Syringe that is

I just don’t like they turned it into a completely personal item

Or a stupid broken one with comms

[celest hare]

Someone likes the instaheal off hook twat

[low quarry]

Plus doesn't that already kinda advocate for spreading out hooks

[valid tide]

tbh I'm mostly just happy that they added the Recovery Crawl back to tenacity

[wary hamlet]

Insanity

[valid tide]

That was my biggest complaint as of recent

[low quarry]

Idk cause a bad survivor could use the current syringe and still go down with it but with this change all they need to do is press the shift button twice and they extend the chase

[gray night]

It’s a weird combo wicked and resurgence

Think it’s mostly wasteful

[wary hamlet]

The only people I can imagine like these changes are survivor mains who leave the game in 2 seconds if anything even slightly inconvenient happens. Even veteran survivor mains hate a majority of this patch from what I’ve seen

[low quarry]

I don't like the current syringe but I'd prefer it over this change

[gray night]

If it’s a bad survivor then idk where we draw the line on how they even use their exhaust in the first place

[wary hamlet]

I see it as a buff to bully squad’s

[gray night]

Someone with lithe and windows but they are bad

Yea don’t need to complete that sentence

[valid tide]

I mean, idk if you want to add me to your statistic here, but I've been playing the game since launch and I actually kinda like the update - I just think they did too much

[wary hamlet]

Imagine someone with that combo hovering around basement with other people around ready to sabo hooks around basement so the killer is FORCED to hook in basement or drop

[gray night]

Me see glowy wall me use perks

Me still die

[low quarry]

What they're doing is decreasing the skill gap and that just makes survivor easier to play. Why would anyone wanna play killer when they could enjoy the buffs they're receiving while also having an easier time playing instead

[gray night]

Survivor is still way harder to play lol

[low quarry]

Spelled "they're" wrong 🥀

[low quarry]

They're making it A LOT easier I can promise you that

[gray night]

It needs to be

[wary hamlet]

Survivor is most definitely not easier to play in this day and age

In this post pallet density update world

[gray night]

B lining straight back to an unhook notification shouldn’t have been a thing for like several years

Slugging long term shouldn’t have been a thing as well

[low quarry]

Anyways ima go watch some stuff, gonna enjoy my dbd break

[wary hamlet]

I fucking suck hot garbage at survivor (im a killer main) and win a majority of my games still just from the sheer amount of pallets on maps

So imagine how much easier its gonna be when this giga buff gets pushed to live

[gray night]

Post your survivor stats

Can dm me

I wanna see this majority of games you win evidence

While “sucking hot garbage”

[wary hamlet]

I can dm it gotta log into my bhvr stat tracker

The fact that you want proof is funny I figured it was a pretty no brainer thing that survivor is the easier role objectively

You have teammates to rely on

[gray night]

People lie is why

[wary hamlet]

Ok just checked in reality my escape rate with survivor is actually right down the middle at 50% but I still do believe survivor is the much easier role

[gray night]

Lmfao

[wary hamlet]

You have teammates you can crutch on and dont get punished for mistakes you make nearly as hard as you would on killer

And even if you suck ass in chase you can sit on gens

[gray night]

It’s just usually people saying something is easy

But then they don’t play that side at all

Or they have horrible escape rates

[wary hamlet]

I like to play both sides but im primarily killer for the most part

[gray night]

I got that part from your bias 😀

[wary hamlet]

How is that bias im stating a objective fact as to why survivor is easier to play than killer

You just heard me 🥀

[gray night]

It’s not objective though

[wary hamlet]

How is this not objective

[gray night]

Just you think it is

But then don’t have anything to really back it up

Just your opinion which is fine

It’s fine to have an opinion but trying to pass it off as fact is the issue is all

[tiny granite]

Trying to clown on somebody for having a bias means you have your own bias

[gray night]

Yea but I have a bit more going for me

Stats being the thing

[wary hamlet]

I don’t think saying survivor is the easier role to play than killer because there are 4 survivors and only 1 killer is a biased opinion…

It is OBJECTIVELY TRUE it is a easier time when you have teammates to rely on

[gray night]

Just a weird one is all

[tiny granite]

Brother, you’re trying to bring stats into this what kind of pretentious jerk are you?

[wary hamlet]

at least I showed you my stats

[gray night]

You’re just ignoring so much co text about fbd when you say

Well it’s 4v1

Obviously the 4 has an easier time

[wary hamlet]

Im assuming you asked me that thinking I would pussy out

[tidal wing]

Surviour is easier to play when playing as a swf, especially with how handholdy it feels at times

[tiny granite]

Yep

[wary hamlet]

Yeah with solo queue its different

But with swf survivor with friends it is definitely much MUCH easier to manage escapes then it is for a killer to kill

[gray night]

Well swfing isn’t really that common compared to soloq

And most swfs are friends jerking around

[tiny granite]

That’s just factually wrong?

[gray night]

You very rarely find a comp and coord swf as opponents

And that’s true about people who play this game as a career

[wary hamlet]

What type of mmr bracket are you in to rarely ever come across a swf playing to win

Because I flat out do not believe that

[gray night]

If it’s true about these people

Then I can bet it’s true about us lol

We don’t have a full time job of dbd and THOSE people don’t even get those opponents

[trail sleet]

why is cenobite in the ptb

[wary hamlet]

He kinda got his tunneling capabilities neutered

[tidal wing]

They made changes they want tested

[wary hamlet]

^

[trail sleet]

i got my hopes up thought hes getting added back:(

[tidal wing]

Unfortunately probably not

[wary hamlet]

The 3 remaining cenobite players are sobbing unfortunately

[gray night]

Prolly won’t at least for several years like they did with demo

Licenses take awhile to expire once acquired by other parties

[tidal wing]

Presuming the game has serval years left in its life span

[tidal wing]

They changed one of his add ons i believe and made it so his m2 ability can’t work on people with endurance

[wary hamlet]

If they keep trying to push these type of changes probably not lol

[trail sleet]

ooooh

[gray night]

Dbd isn’t gonna die in serval years lol

People have been saying that for

Several years

[tidal wing]

It feels like they are throwing a plaster on it without fixing the actual problem

[tiny granite]

Depends on of this update goes through or not

[tiny granite]

This updates goes through and I’m willing to bet the game’s days are numbered

[wary hamlet]

Honestly dbd is shockingly still really popular despite being this old so realistically it will keep going for years to come

[gray night]

You can’t really fix play behavior

Especially when it comes to tunneling or camping

[wary hamlet]

As long as it keeps printing money for bhvr they’ll keep supporting it no matter how shitty it becomes with future changes

[tiny granite]

then why do they bother even trying to put this system in the game in the first place??????

[gray night]

You just have to step in and prevent it in someway

You can’t go to the source and tunneling camping (because I can and want to)

And wag your finger

[tidal wing]

Well it comes down to listening to the players and listening to why people tunnel or slug

[celest hare]

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/459943

[gray night]

They banned everyone from their forums

[tidal wing]

And then work on the issues that arise from listening to the players

[wary hamlet]

Doesnt help that bhvr basically disregard killer concerns

If that livestream and poll was any proof of that

[tidal wing]

Killer concerns don’t matter although they are a crucial part of the game, it’s infuriating

[gray night]

Can’t fix “because I can and want to”

It never had one reason but it was just allowed for so long where it’s nonsense use probably outweighed its actual use

[brittle mantle]

Although I got the game like 2 years ago, I've consistently played it for the past year & half or so. For the most part I would say I have a fairly ok knowledge of the game & have nearly 400 hours so far (which compared to sweats isnt much)

I can confidently say I see a swf about every 1/3 of my games

[tiny granite]

Without killers the game dies just wanna say that

[gray night]

You are mistaken then

Not even people who play this game as a career

See that many in a day

[tiny granite]

With an unknown amount of lobbies going on at the same time you really think it isn’t possible just because you haven’t seen it?

[gray night]

They’ll get like one swf or two across a full stream and that’s like 9+hours of killer play

And it’s funny it’s usually the same swf lol

[tidal wing]

That’s not true tho, tunnelling and slugging is a valid strategy when used for pressure

[tiny granite]

True

[gray night]

Yea but it was sadly not used for that probably in a large majority of cases

It was more used “because I can”

[tiny granite]

The devs said it themselves if someone could find the clip? They just feel like backtracking on that for some ungodly reason

[wary hamlet]

The devs straight up said that in the patch notes for the krause ptb they were gonna push

[tidal wing]

In 40% of games people are being tunnelled and slugged for reasons other than strategy

[gray night]

That’s probably why we are seeing these changes

Too many people doing things like that at 5 gens

[wary hamlet]

They said they acknowledged that slugging and tunneling can be the right play

It can be the right play

So lets just attempt to gut it so it isnt the right play.

Peak bhvr

So glad that krause ptb anti tunnel didnt make it to live

[gray night]

Just a gusss anyways

[brittle mantle]

Generally speaking a solo queue or a guy with maybe one friend isn’t gonna be too bad because they do not have coordination. You can usually tell it’s a full on SWF (though not in all cases) they’ll do the same things to make winning near impossible

It’s def far more common at low-mid MMR

[tiny granite]

That’s why they need to just scrap this whole update it makes no sense to punish killers for a strategy that’s needed to counter survivor meta

[gray night]

Nah needs to happen

[celest hare]

Someone voted it up, yayyyy

[gray night]

Get rid of the unhook notification killers

So we can actually have some form of gameplay

[celest hare]

That's just stupid lmao, why are you doomposting so muchhh 😭

[wary hamlet]

Funny enough them pushing so hard on anti tunnel and slug hurts mid-low tier killers more than the killers survivors actually hate playing against (top tier meta menaces like nurse)

[celest hare]

Idk about that, if you leave the hook immediately like a good boy but just cannot find survivors, especially if it's no fault of your own, you should 100% be allowed to know when to go back to the hook

[tiny granite]

I’m not? I’m just stating an opinion

[gray night]

I never really have trouble finding survivors but then again I never really adopted on relying on an unhook notification

It’s just a silly way to play honestly

[tidal wing]

So the reason why people go to hooks is because is a source of information when you don’t know where surviours are

[celest hare]

Running back to hook always, yes, but it would harm people just trying to play WAY too much

[gray night]

It’s because it’s the path of least resistance

[celest hare]

With the anti tunnelling however it would be fine, even inefficient for the killers

[gray night]

Most gamers do this

[celest hare]

Because either they haven't found anyone and it's fine to go back, or they have to go out of their way to go back and are sort of forced to target the unhooker

[tidal wing]

You will always know there gonna be at least 2 survivors there and honestly you heal underhook your asking for trouble

[wary hamlet]

Like sure you have 30 seconds of endurance haste and also elusive but do you really think a good nurse, blight, ghoul, or hillbilly player isn’t gonna make a B line straight back to that hook in 2 seconds lmao

[brittle mantle]

See I don’t inherently mind the unhook changes because yeah, getting tunneled sucks. The problem is that we could really fix most issues with the previous killer buffs cause (while not the best thing in the world) it actually rewarded the killers for doing unique hooks

The goal shouldn’t be to punish players for slugging or tunneling when they have little to no options left because yes, in those cases it’s 100% basically needed. What the goal should be is to reward killers for not doing tactics that make the game unfun

However at the end of the day, the real problem is how incredibly fast games go that force players to feel the need to 4 man slug cause if they don’t? 2 gens gone boom. Which won’t be fixed without fundamentally changing the game

[celest hare]

You can easily lose them thanks to the lovely new elusive

[wary hamlet]

And no amount of haste is gonna save you

From s tier killers with mobility chase powers

[celest hare]

I use lucky break ALONE like a fucking MADLAD and even it itself is super effective lmao

[celest hare]

So no with 9.3.0 unhook notifs should not be delayed imo

[fathom bane]

honestly IMO i'd be fine with these changes as long as they are disabled during the endgame

[tidal wing]

They last for 10 seconds instead of 30

[fathom bane]

i meant slugging

[celest hare]

Which changes specifically? Thinking about it it's fine as is in the ptb, I even want survivors to get elusive in endgame to be less confusing and with what I proposed about them losing collision but attacks prioritise survivors with collision, basekit endurance body blocking would be killed

[brittle mantle]

Slugging changes honestly wouldn’t even be needed if we just made hooking for the killers more of an actual benefit. The reason people slug is usually cause it’s easier (or in rarer cases cause it’s endgame and there’s no options left)

Bring back the killer buffs for unique hooks (maybe increase some aspects) and keep the unhook buffs

[wary hamlet]

Elusive doesnt account for the killer having macro knowledge

They can still know your general location and make plays accordingly

And if its a nurse or blight your kinda just cooked

[celest hare]

Good on them though, I don't see that as a problem

[wary hamlet]

Yeah it isnt

[celest hare]

If you are trying your hardest to lose them and they still find you

[brittle mantle]

Being forced to play a certain way is never fun, but being encouraged with actual benefits will make players play how you want most of the time

[celest hare]

Also maps that you can see a million miles away making it impossible to lose hard tunnelling killers need to be addressed alone

[celest hare]

But I think they're all fine enough rn

Maybe Haddonfield... but... tf would they do

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/459943 one more post here for now as I really want them to get this update right and attention on this might increase the likeliness of it doing something

[tidal wing]

Maps need changing especially some of their layouts, some maps aren’t fun or fair for one side or both

[celest hare]

Yeah and to top it off pallet density changes are mostly sucky

[wary hamlet]

Crotus is actually boring as shit

I dont like that realm from both a survivor and a killer standpoint

Pallet density change made it even more of a snoozefest

[brittle mantle]

Love how survivors now have unhook benefits to make tunneling harder, a pallet buffet to make the game even more handholdy

What do the killers get? More blood points

[wary hamlet]

Not even enough bloodpoints to afford a single fucking brown node on a bloodweb lmao

[brittle mantle]

Because blood points are gonna help me win my match

[reef tartan]

u forgot the 0.2m/s for 15 seconds after getting a unique hook that you lose when you get in chase instantly

[wary hamlet]

And 15 seconds of bloodlust 1 your gonna lose instantly

[reef tartan]

legit

[wary hamlet]

And get 0 use out of

[brittle mantle]

Yeah the bloodlust that I can lose by having a survivor just look at me

[fierce creek]

brother, it is not hard to understand that this change is supposed to be in survivors favour

ofc survivors get more shit

[reef tartan]

every update is, the pallets are genuinely making me miserable

[fierce creek]

ah yes every update is, like when they removed half of the size of the maps

[reef tartan]

it's run to pallet, pre drop and run to another pallet

[wary hamlet]

Yeah if you dont play a killer that has a power that can hit over or disregard pallets in the current game sucks to suck

Best get to breaking pallets

[reef tartan]

every low tier killer gets nerfed again whilst high tier killers are fine

[wary hamlet]

Lumberjack timing

[fierce creek]

time to play meta

[brittle mantle]

The funnier thing is that in live streams the devs always refer to the survivors as We, or Us. But when they talk about killer it’s The killer, and not The killer player

[reef tartan]

meta isn't gonna save the pallets

[fierce creek]

survivors are also forced to play meta to try and win

[fierce creek]

no they dont

[fierce creek]

meta will ignore the pallets

[reef tartan]

the new ptb basically gives base kit otf which is ridiculous

such smart thinking will get you gen rushed

you legit have to break pallets or ur just fucked for the game when you do want chase

[fierce creek]

if you play a meta killer and you get gen rushed, massive skill issue

[reef tartan]

not everyone wants to play meta and be miserable and sweaty

funny enough that the low tier killers are way more enjoyable and playable

[wary hamlet]

Some killer mains dont want to be forced into meta and want to play someone like ghostface the same way some survivors dont want to be forced into exhaustion or gen rush builds and instead run shit like boons

So just fuck those people I guess?

[reef tartan]

might aswell delete killer and add a ai that plays killer

[wary hamlet]

We should be encouraging creativity with killer choice and perk choice for survivor instead of stifling it

[gray night]

youre not forced into meta

[tidal wing]

Gen placements need adjustments, some can spawn to close together causing an easy three gen, or too far apart making patrolling them harder weaker killers, hooks are inconsistent with them having the same problems as the gens being unevenly spread out and the adds on that increases or decreases their distance not working the way it should, shack and main builds on the maps can be some of the strongest tiles on the map, making others feel lacking at times. To fix this it feels like they just went add the game amount of pallets on a map and call it a day. Making it unfun for both killer and survivor to deal with. It’s made stronger killers stay the same and weaker killers struggle more

[wary hamlet]

It makes for more interesting games when people arent running the same exact shit

For both sides

[gray night]

coukld say the same silly thing about live

[reef tartan]

if this ptb goes into live servers most likely you will be forced into meta so you can actually win

[gray night]

no im fine https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071257428626243615/1420192649440399401/image.png?ex=690c88b9&is=690b3739&hm=f37bfdba673a6a9a17ac42495bda526ccff43136fe57e592e231cae62cf0675f&

[reef tartan]

they never fix the actual issues the game has

[gray night]

Currently the worst killer in the game by the way

[reef tartan]

idk how they still haven't fixed the gate fps drop issue

[reef tartan]

i change killer everyday so it's diff for me

[tidal wing]

Yes you are, we currently have a gen rush and heal meta. You don’t want gens to be finished quickly you need to bring perks that are considered anti gen rush gens. To slow down the rate they are finished

[gray night]

great.

You dont specialize, thats your problem

[reef tartan]

why would i specialize? i'm trying to enjoy the game and not be miserable

[gray night]

Then lower your expectations

you arent any good at any killer if you just close your eyes and randomly pick a killer to play

[unreal python]

Or you'd have to just get downs fast enough to keep pressure high enough that gens don't get done

[reef tartan]

who said i randomly pick a killer?

[gray night]

Right there

[reef tartan]

it's not random

[tidal wing]

She became the worst killer because she was too strong on release, they nerfed her and said a rework was coming until they changed minds. She’s weak because she was forced there

[slow venture]

Please keep in mind that most survivors still either don’t know or refuse to learn her counterplay or just quit when they see her.

[gray night]

Its kept in mind

Most survivors also dont know how to play against .... every killer in the game lol

[celest hare]

Alrighty last last time posting this here as I'm done editing it 😭 https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/459943 give it some love fellas lmao first forum posts as well

[wary hamlet]

The sadako effect

Killer played so little= survivors run around like headless chickens not knowing the counterplay

[fierce creek]

ofc not, but its not like survivors are winning a lot with boons, and I dont see them complaining close to as much

they arent even winning a lot with meta

[gray night]

Because they dont lol

[tidal wing]

Which is hard depending on what surviours are running

[wary hamlet]

I doubt john ghostface is winning a lot either

[slow venture]

Thats really the only reason weaker killers are even playable rn. If MMR worked properly and you actually got good survivors each match you’d be getting dumpstered all the time.

[gray night]

You cant make up a hypothetical to defend something that actually isnt the case

[tidal wing]

As a trapper main, I ain’t winning much

[slow venture]

I’m just saying…

[celest hare]

I hate seeing her actually fuck up my teammates when I'm busy doing everything right LMAO

[gray night]

You are just guessing and then blaming mmr not working

[tidal wing]

Mmr doesn’t work most of the time

[celest hare]

2 UPVOTES ON MY POST YAY 😭

[slow venture]

Yeah and…?

[gray night]

thats obvious information

but thats true for everyone who plays this game.

You and me included

You make it sound like whomever you are talking to, has broken MMR.

But then your MMR works just fine

We are all on the broken mmr balanced playing field

[tidal wing]

So how is it guessing and blaming mmr if it’s obvious information that mmr doesn’t work as intended

[gray night]

No they are sayying what ifs on something that is the opposite of what is currently

it would be one thing if it was just something to guess on.

But when you guess on something that is the exact opposite

doesnt mean much

What ifing eachother until someone gives up doesnt make for constructive conversation

Please keep it concise

[slow venture]

I’m not trying to win any argument. I’m just saying faulty MMR is probably the cause of the balance issues rn.

[gray night]

Its one of many causes for balance issues

[slow venture]

That’s all I’m saying.

[fierce creek]

not many, there's 3 major causes, that is one of them

mmr, killer power difference, and party power difference

[gray night]

map design..../

[tidal wing]

I’d also mention map design and how they don’t take into consideration of each killers power in the game,

[gray night]

What to learn on both sides as well....

The current survivor tutorial for example.

You save in the killers face

Teaching you right off the bat

[brittle mantle]

I think a lot of the problems of the game could be shifted into one of a few categories

1: poor MMR

2: killer balance being vastly different on a spectrum (aka how good let’s say trapper is vs blight)

3:completing gens/opening exit gates is simply too fast which makes any game with a non high mobility killer unfun to play if survivors go for a full on gen rush slam. Aka games go by pretty fast if you aren’t playing a mobility killer. Hence why people often resort to things like slugging & tunneling as lower tier killers. Because they simply can’t do anything else

4: some maps are just inherently better for one side than others which ehhh I’m mixed on

How dare I ever play Myers, trapper or bubba. The moment a decent team brings gen builds they effectively win

most cases

Though I also feel like alot of survivor players also just want to play “the hero” and will make a lot of choices they really shouldn’t, such as getting off the hook and immediately trying to stay near killers to save others instead of trying to get away as fast as possible. Or complaining that they get tunneled when they actively put themselves in situations where the killer can actively find them

Coming from someone who rarely ever hard slugs (once in a blue moon). And only “tunnel” when the survivors basically put themselves in line for me to go after them when they should be trying to avoid me

Bothe sides have their own respective issues

[tidal wing]

I don’t think they will fix MMR due to queue times being longer, it seems they live on the mentality quicker queue times and quick games are what the community wants. When in relation we want quick queues with mid to longish games. Not done in 5 seconds.

Definitely agree with the killer balancing being different. The devs should try and find ways to help killers with finding the middle ground of what makes blight s killer compared to trapper which in this case mobility. Trapper can’t traverse the map as quickly as blight meaning he can’t put as much pressure as blight can. He’s forced to trap on side of the map typically. It doesn’t help he’s very dated and maps are awful for him at times.

I think nerfing the anti gen rush perks when gens can only be kicked 8 times was an awful idea. Now it feels like there’s less ways to add pressure other than tunneling or slugging

[tidal wing]

I feel the same when I play trapper, so many things can go wrong that can work against you even outside of a decent survivors and their builds

[tidal wing]

Both sides definitely have issues but bhvr has made it clear that only survivors issues are important at the moment by ignoring key information from killer especially in surveys and polls

They seem to want to focus on one side instead of the whole which is infuriating and makes the game feel even more unbalanced and if there’s one side is more stronger than the other

This is why the debate the game being more killer sided or it’s more surviour sided happens

The fact that it doesn’t even seem like the ptb changes are gonna fix the issues they are trying to address, I was playing yesterday and we got bubba who managed to get a 4 man slug and hook us before someone could use the anti slugging changes

[fierce creek]

more stronger is just stronger

[fierce creek]

the anti slug changes are made to combat toxic slugging not made to combat normal slugging, so the changes were exactly what they wanted for cases like this

killers can still slug for pressue but cant be toxic about it, this is what every1 wants

[wheat dagger]

Is it tomorrow the 2v8 is out?

[quiet geyser]

Yeah iam a survivor main now 🤣. Never playing killer ever again.

[hazy kraken]

tried this out

[sweet crypt]

how much gb is the ptb

[hazy kraken]

5

[dusty edge]

@jolly onyx 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[fast talon]

Can we all agree how shit this fucking update is??? Promoting strong killers with good mobility and making m1s shit, AGAIN

[misty yew]

How about they give something base kit that only affects the m1 attack? Yeah some strong killers like singularity and ghoul might get caught in the cross fire and get buffs they don't need, but generally speaking playing around the m1 would probably be the best idea. Still wouldn't fix the issue of getting the m1 in the first place, but it would at least be a start.

[granite vessel]

I know everyone’s upset at this ptb but I’ve been having fun with it they probably need to give killer more for a unique hook but the anti slug, camp and tunnel changes haven’t really effected me at all

[granite vessel]

Any way you buff m1 killers by buffing the entire cast will also benefit blight, singu and ghoul

They need to not buff the role as a whole because the best killers don’t need buffs they need to make these changes on a killer to killer basis

I’d also imagine it’s why they’re so “survivor sided” with updates because any buff to the killer role will buff the killers who don’t need it while also buffing the killers who do need it it’s the issue of the killer power gap while if you buff the survivor role that just isn’t an issue

[misty yew]

I stated that some may get caught in the cross fire, even using Ghoul and Singularity as an example. I'm aware of that. I'm just stating it's probably the best option since, just like they did with a Nurse, they can make something into a special attack and not technically a M1. It's not perfect mind you, I'm just saying it's probably the safest option.

[granite vessel]

The reason that works for nurse is because she can’t really m1 her power is how she attacks always

Blight, Kaneki and Singu are 4.6 so you can just play them m1 if m1 is actually a viable way to play across the board

If you make a universal buff to m1 killers you buff everyone who is 4.6

[native grove]

do i need to reinstall dbd everytime i install ptb?

[granite vessel]

Yes

[real plaza]

I looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove pallets so much, playing as killer is so much fun

[hazy kraken]

survs again dying on purpose and dc to boost killrates

[verbal lance]

Aren't games with DCs excluded from stats?

[odd bison]

how is the anti slugging thingy?

[eager egret]

terrible

[eager egret]

how do u have 17k auric cells?

[harsh hearth]

Thank you ptb for letting me try pinhead and making me sure that i would want him

[hazy kraken]

stacked from previous

[eager egret]

i didnt know previous ptbs stacked

[odd bison]

honestly, is there anything good on the ptb?

[eager egret]

no

[misty yew]

The conviction nerf. That's about it

[odd bison]

well that's disappointing, hopefully the changes dont go through

[native aspen]

the antislug and anticamp wont affect like 95% of matches if even that low

[gray night]

pretty much

[lofty glen]

ayooo they let you play pinhead in the ptb

[native aspen]

the antitunnel is really the only contentious systemic change and even that is a very conservative change

it's only going to be marginally harder to tunnel and that really only comes into play if you are immediately on the survivor after unhook

[fast talon]

Saw this Reddit post and I lowkey agree 100% so might aswell share it

Also I dont like the way they ruined furtive chase

[honest mason]

Autohaven looks so ugly it's like they have a white studio light as a sun

[tranquil mural]

was the reception this bad for the last ptb?

[verbal lance]

I think the reception has been about as bad as the last.

[lofty glen]

how long are killer queues in the ptb again?

[lofty glen]

i feel like theres been half as much reception

[native aspen]

ptb queues are not really an indicator of anything

[lofty glen]

oh sorry that was unrelated im just tryna play rn

[verbal lance]

Devs don't seem to understand that tunneling someone out is required in matches where the survivors are highly coordinated and highly skilled. There is often no other way to win; gen pressure is just too strong for one killer to do anything about.

Tunneling out is indeed not required in the majority of pub matches that I play, which is why I don't do it most of the time. But BHVR wants to remove it as an option completely which is going to increase the strength of good SWFs to the point where unless they throw horribly, they will at least 3-out every match.

[verbal lance]

There hasn't been as much outcry but of the chatter I've seen it's still almost universally negative.

I don't think making changes like this is really feasible until the gap between solo and SWF is closed more.

[dusty edge]

@cobalt torrent 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[rustic tinsel]

guys

[reef sedge]

there is nothing that stops a killer from tunneling in the ptb btw

besides the slight endurance buff when unhooked

[dusty edge]

@deft quarry 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[glad pebble]

why do i have the lament box charm in the ptb but not in normal dbd?

[dusty edge]

@lone sparrow 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@polar fjord 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[fast talon]

Half as much reception but just as bad. Even Otzdarva (or however u spell his name) doesnt rlly like the ptb

[fast talon]

Exactly, if I hadn't killed a dude by 5 hooks today, my match would've ended in 0k as Oni on The Game but instead, it ended in 3k

[rustic tinsel]

man this matchmaking seems like a decade

[fast talon]

Wb ALL the surv buffs, 30 sec haste, Iron Will basekit (or wtv the perk that makes ur scratch marks, breathing and footstepts invisible is called), seeing the killer for 30 sec, the now broken perk combo etc. also, for sum1 like Oni, slugging is a MUST, snowballing if u may, and this upd makes it just not worth it

Atleast thats my opinion

[dusty edge]

@half geyser 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@stone pecan 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[winter spire]

still got tunneld in the ptb though this was supposed to get fixed

[sterile matrix]

Will Resurgence Wicked combo stay? Or one will get reworked?

[verbal lance]

I'm more worried about Babysitter TBH.

Giving 30 seconds of wallhacks to the survivor you're supposed to be chasing now is so egregiously stupid I don't know how that even made it to a PTB.

The theme of this PTB seems to be how many lose-lose situations the developers can create for killers.

I already rarely hook in basement so Wicked is dumb but not game breaking.

Babysitter and BT 100% need to be changed though.

[muted grail]

I at least like the idea that you can change the scratch marks to any color so that you can see where they are better because I have bad eyesight so I sometimes completely miss them

The other idea's idk though

[verbal lance]

Scratch marks and showing resolve bar to other survivors are W changes. Everything else is a big fat L.

In isolation each thing might be fine but in combination they create so many situations where the killer legitimately cannot do anything.

[simple stone]

HUH

[dusty edge]

@stone pecan 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[agile loom]

True abt borrowed time it seems so situational and useless now

[verbal lance]

Uh no. BT will be incredibly strong, but only in SWF. Which is the opposite of how perks should be designed.

Person 1 has BT and Babysitter, person 2 has DS. Person 1 unhooks person 2. Now killer has to choose between chasing person 1 (who will have 30 seconds of aura reading, making the chase very hard) or chasing person 2 who will run to a pallet and go down there. Killer can't pick them up because of DS nor can they leave them slugged because of BT.

BT will become meta for SWFs if it goes through in this state.

[delicate cliff]

ppl should stop crying like little babies, none of these changes will make it to live...

[granite vessel]

honestly the anti slug changes are fine

[verbal lance]

Where should we post criticism of the PTB then? What would make you happy?

[delicate cliff]

i play soloq surv, happiness is not on the menu

[verbal lance]

If you're going to characterize critism of the changes as "crying like little babies" please leave the Internet and let the adults talk.

Anti slug changes are mostly fine, it would be nice if they accounted for sabo, though, as slugging is the counter to sabo.

[granite vessel]

i think people exaggerate how severe these changes are the anti slug is fine i actually kinda hope it goes live. anti tunnel stuff needs way more work still

[verbal lance]

In a vacuum the anti-tunnel stuff might be fine, but in combination with Babysitter in particular, they are pretty problematic.

[delicate cliff]

in soloq all these changes will prove useful, but it will only result in swfs being extra op than what they already are, killers will make 1 bilion videos and cry over on twitter, and in the end, bhvr will only nerf soloq

[verbal lance]

As you will be forced to choose between chasing someone with a bunch of buffs (haste, endurance, elusive) or 30 seconds of aura on you, which is a really stupid position that the developers created.

Honestly if they toned down the anti-tunnel buffs for survivors who are in a group, I might be okay with them, because, yeah, your average solo queue teammate isn't going to use them effectively and probably needs them.

But I know they've resisted the idea of debuffing SWF before, because of reasons.

[granite vessel]

Yeah I think its not great I generally think the anti tunnel is fine if the benefit killers got for not tunneling was greater and maybe killer dependant so it could be stronger for killers with different weaknesses like more mobility for unmobile killers

[verbal lance]

Right, I'd be okay with it too if the killer buffs were stronger. 15 seconds of bloodlust is laughably useless even if you're playing a killer that actually gets use out of it.

[granite vessel]

i dont mind bloodlust on paper but the fact its removed by so many actiosn is rough

ghostface enetering stealth removes the bloodlust that sucks

they just need to adjust what actions on certain killers break the blood lust and give them more for unique hooks and i think its fine not the best but fine

[verbal lance]

It's still just not enough of an incentive.

TBH bring back basekit BBQ, that was a healthy thing. It drives the killer to chase.

Some version of basekit pain res would also be nice, because not being able to tunnel out means gen efficiency will increase and that needs to be kept in check.

[delicate cliff]

yeah, sounds great, how about basekit infectious fright, or even dms and corrupt while we are at it

[verbal lance]

Dude survivors are getting several things basekit, can you chill?

[delicate cliff]

basekit perks are NOT the solution bruh, we need new mechanics, something to evolve the game, not basekit this basekit that or bandage back and forth fixes, or status... status effects are the worst to use as balance

[misty yew]

Question; does broken prevent healing progress granted by resurgence and wicked? I know it prevents healing, I'm just not sure if the perks that just give a flat amount get ignored or if they're added to when they're eventually unbroken.

[verbal lance]

That may be true, I'm speaking in the context of these proposed changes.

[verbal lance]

I'm not sure, would be interesting to test.

[misty yew]

If broken prevents it, plague is gonna surge in popularity

[delicate cliff]

yes, broken prevents and erases all healing progress. If after broken you have healing progress from a prior state/perk, its a bug.

which reminds me about a rant, why are people upset with wicked and resurgence combo? You have to be hooked at basement AND those perk slots can be used for MUCH better things rather than a gimmick. I mean if you want to be healed after a hook running Second Wind is much better, and it promotes altruistic playstyle.

That said, I do wish they had reworked Wicked to something else as well as take a second look at invocation perks. It has been about 5 survivor releases so far where there hasn't been ANY preferable perk for soloq or new players. Its always a gimmick or swf dependant/teamwork perk that no one has any idea you are running.

[cyan pine]

About wicked and resurgence, I know you get fully healed and have endurance and haste for 30 seconds.

The endurance is not a third health state on a healthy survivor, right? I believe if you're healthy and have endurance and then get hit, you become just injured and no endurance

I also agree that wicked and resurgence isint that big of a deal. It only helps for the first hook stage anyway, then the next down you can put them in the basement

[delicate cliff]

that is true, only if elusive makes it to live, which I highly doubt it will

[verbal lance]

Babysitter and BT are a much bigger issue than Wicked and Resurgence.

[delicate cliff]

yes, essentially, in their attempt to bridge the gap between soloq and swf with this ptb, they only make swf exponentially stronger

[verbal lance]

Yep.

[rustic tinsel]

FINALLY

[verbal lance]

BT will be abused by SWFs. Babysitter will get value by anyone though, which I guess is better in that it doesn't make SWFs exclusively stronger, but it forces a lose-lose on the killer after an unhook.

[rustic tinsel]

just got in a match after 2 hours

[cyan pine]

Thinking about it now, wicked and resurgence ONLY gets value if you manage to not get hit for 30 seconds after unhook.

It's no different then hitting an injured survivor with endurance then needing a second hit anyway

[verbal lance]

Make Babysitter give the aura read to the person who was unhooked instead and it's probably fine. Could stand a duration nerf maybe.

The syringes are also going to make SWF stronger while doing little for solos.

[delicate cliff]

Syptic on the other hand, better to run that brown addon, Bandages.... you actually end up with more available charges after a heal.

This entire PTB, its a massive miss

[shell pumice]

downloading the ptb rn, are syptics really dead?

[delicate cliff]

instead of endurance, you get, wait for it .... whole 15% efficiency bonus

[simple stone]

not the merchant buffs ❤️

[shell pumice]

wouldnt that just be outshined by botany or something, idrk

[delicate cliff]

meaning you get ~4 extra charges of your medkit, bandages (brown rarity btw) gives you 8

[verbal lance]

Styptic is mostly dead, syringe is a nerf if you used them for efficiency (heal while doing a gen) but a massive buff if you used them offensively (in chase).

[shell pumice]

😭 oh my god they actually fucking slaughtered it

what abt the perks, did furtive chase or anything else die

[delicate cliff]

the merchant buffs 😄 imagine gutting a killer for over an year, and then buffing them to more or less their pre-nerf state because "rework takes too much resources and not a focus right now"

[verbal lance]

Furtive chase is basically dead. Multiple survivor perks got ridiculous reworks that makes them OP either generally or in niche situations.

[shell pumice]

skull merchant is good now aswell? thats suprising

[shell pumice]

my beloved furtive chase, i cant believe they did you like this💔

[delicate cliff]

still very low tier, i mean, if you enjoy playing her, which I personaly do, its a good buff, but essentially instead of a thoughtful rework or changes, she is just slightly better

[simple stone]

shes actually the healthiest shes ever been right now i believe (this ptb)

she’s practically the same as she was pre gutting except for power value you need to be actively rotating your drones

[shell pumice]

the fact they kinda openly said they wont do reworks on struggling characters is kinda crazy to me but atleast she's better😭

[delicate cliff]

well she couldn't have gotten worse, I mean the only worse thing that could haveh appened to her is deleting her from the game

[simple stone]

i really would like an SFX and VFX overhaul for her though…her kit feels so empty in that aspect

[shell pumice]

everyone focuses on her ass anyways so no need

[simple stone]

😭

this animation has so much personality i love it so much, can they pls capitalise on this side of her by bringing back that eye vfx from her first ptb

[dusty edge]

@fierce creek 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[simple stone]

also bring back the panic animations survivors played when in a drone radius

[quaint helm]

bro how do i play xeno effectively?

i keep getting looped out of my mind and missing my tail attacks

[simple stone]

#game-questions

just dont play him

[fierce creek]

game question this chat is only for spamming random sm shit

[quaint helm]

ok

[cyan pine]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about the syringe change? Then again I did start learning Blight so I may be biased.

[proud pebble]

Can they make sure non of this goes live again

Legit some of the most awful changes back to back again

[shell pumice]

you can hear and see footsteps in tunnels, they are yellow
aura reading is great on him because it works while he's in a tunnel AND hes's quick
try to destroy turrets before they hit you
if u see a survivor without turrets nearby they are usually free
get a crosshair and practice xeno aim

[verbal lance]

I hope so, but the sunk cost fallacy is strong with BHVR.

[cyan pine]

Removing exhaustion once per trial is kinda meh.

[fierce creek]

?

[proud pebble]

Wym ?

[fierce creek]

"some of the most awful changes back to back again" lmao

[shell pumice]

bhvr just took stuff back to rework it, knowing them SOMETHING has to go live

[quaint helm]

thx

[delicate cliff]

the only thing im excited now is the potential new content from bhvr, like, how many months has it been now in terms of any overal game balancing changes not making it to live?

[verbal lance]

It's meh for solo, but strong for SWFs who can coordinate it to extend chases at critical times. It's another change that disproportionately benefits SWF, which is problematic.

[proud pebble]

That's a true statement

[fierce creek]

far from it

[proud pebble]

Not really

[shell pumice]

i think their problem is is that theyre trying to make tunneling and slugging a weaker strategy instead of giving killers a better chance at winning without those strats

[proud pebble]

They made like one good change

And that's about it

[misty yew]

I mean, in the virtue of being 100% fair, plenty of killers have terrible higher rarity add-ons that are just objectively worse than a brown qol upgrade. Like I'll take VHS copy over iri tape any day of the week on Onyrō. Not defending it, just saying it's not a new problem.

[fierce creek]

[shell pumice]

actively nerfing slugging/tunneling without valid buffs in return will just result in it being abused in Any possible way

[fierce creek]

so like killers abuse tunneling and slugging rn

[proud pebble]

What's gonna change

[fierce creek]

for once you cant abuse slugging anymore

[proud pebble]

Nothing.
These changes do nothing

These are bandaids that have no stick

[fierce creek]

😮

bandaids you say?

[proud pebble]

"wow I can't abuse something that nobody does constantly" but now they don't address everything that comes with it

[fierce creek]

I would say its more of a tourniquet

[proud pebble]

No

It's like a shotgun wound being aided by a bandage

[mint creek]

I hope they pull the update through

[cyan pine]

Slugging can still be done, killers will just make a mental note of who has the most progress on their resolve bar and slug accordingly. Also perks that reduce healing speed also reduce the time to get up from slug I believe.

[fierce creek]

I agree bro, make killers pc die if they tunnel some1

the true fix

[delicate cliff]

I liked the days when BHVR actually stuck to their design concept and considered these valid mechanics. I mean, I play soloq and killer 60/40 % and NEVER felt tunneling or slugging is a problem. Yeah I stayed on the ground a lot that game, or yeah, another game I am out within first 4 minutes. But both of these instances its because we (survivor randos team) made mistakes.

[cyan pine]

I'm still gonna play slugularity

[fierce creek]

🤣

[shell pumice]

you can correct me if im wrong
Gen rushing is one of the stronest strats in the game, killer slowdown has been meta for years cuz of this
spreading out hooks evenly will keep the most survivors on gens for longer
if you wanna win u want to take them off gens, whats stronger slowdown then getting 1-2 ppl out as fast as possible/ its also a game changer having less people on gens forever, they abuse it because its a valid strategy and u dotn get rewarded for spreading hooks out

[fierce creek]

me when I lie

[fierce creek]

no one said tunneling is not the most effective strategy

killers when they need to strawman

[shell pumice]

wth does strawman mean

[fierce creek]

tunelling is the most effective strategy, fix it by nerfing it 🙂

thats what they did!

[shell pumice]

you missed the entire point

[misty yew]

That's not how the concept of equivalent exchange works, unfortunately.

[fierce creek]

did you make anypoint? because if you did I dont particular find it worth talking about

[fierce creek]

why would there need to be equivalent exchange?

[delicate cliff]

another manchild in discussion, go back to general

shoo

[fierce creek]

manchild for not agreeing with you?

[valid tide]

Dang dude you're still here

[shell pumice]

Gen rushing is one of the stronest strats in the game, killer slowdown has been meta for years cuz of this
spreading out hooks evenly will keep the most survivors on gens for longer
tell me what reward do u get from spreading out hooks evenly?

[delicate cliff]

you are not "not agreeing" you are spewing accussations, you are not providing any arguments

[misty yew]

Sure, higher tiers may not need to use it and could be toned down. But SOME killers simple tunnel because that's how their power WAS DESIGNED. You can't just take it away without giving SOMETHING. Bhvr themselves admitted this by giving Oni more orbs on hook in the last PTB.

[fierce creek]

you dont get any reward, why would you need to get a reward?

[fierce creek]

high tiers vs low tiers is a completly different issue

[shell pumice]

so you have a chance at winning? tell me why i would do a no reward option when the game winning reward option is RIGHT there

[fierce creek]

high tiers are so much stronger than low tiers, that is the issue for the low tiers, not nerfing tunneling

[winged kraken]

an issue that ties back to this one did you read what he said

[mint creek]

I mean they would work on it no ? If they want to reduce tunneling and slugging

[misty yew]

It feeds into the issue because which of the roaster needs to tunnel vs who doesn't need to. It's not a complete division.

[fierce creek]

you have a chance of winning by killing people, dosent mean strategies shouldnt be less effective

[fierce creek]

then go ask BHVR to buff low tiers/ nerf high tiers, not complain about tunneling getting nerfed

[shell pumice]

there you go you said it yourself, if one strat is rewarding while the other isnt, instead of giving killers a nerf to the effective strat only reward not tunneling

[valid tide]

This is a bad take - ignoring that you can use almost any killers power how you want, Oni is one of the killers most empowered to not tunnel survivors

Killers like Trapper and Hag would be better examples, since they have a vested interest in trapping objectives like hooks ergo potentially enabling them to tunnel a survivor who falls victim to their traps

[delicate cliff]

tunneling is not something to be nerfed, its not a mechanic, its a strategy. Applying various basekits, statuses, mechanical balance changes overall ARE NOT the way to go about reducing tunneling. Same goes for slugging

[fierce creek]

you can make one strat more rewording in comparison if you nerf the stronger strategy to not make it as strong

[fierce creek]

strategies can be nerfed 🤦‍♂️

[misty yew]

I meant slugging not tunneling, though I was responding to a different comment

[fierce creek]

better games have done it

[valid tide]

oh yeah Oni is Mr. Slugger

[misty yew]

Yeah though I was talking to someone about slugging not tunneling. Responded to the wrong guy

[winged kraken]

tunneling is being nerfed despite the issue being that some killers need it. do we want to make other killers stronger so they dont HAVE to tunnel or punish killers by treating the symptom and not the cause

[delicate cliff]

are you dull? Its up to a person to decide if they are gonna use a strategy or not. No matter what you do in terms of balance. Nerfing applies to mechanical changes within the gameplay loop. Give a survivor 1 billion seconds endurance, a killer can still tunnel them out if they want to do so. You cant NERF a strategy

[fierce creek]

killers needed it because those killers are so weak compared to the norm, ask for buffs, not for tunneling to be a thing

[shell pumice]

yeah but heres the issue. spreading out hooks has literally ZERO reward, u gotta make spreading out hooks have a reward to even make it close to comparable

[fierce creek]

🤦‍♂️ and I am the manchild right? Strategies can still have their effectiveness nerfed

[mint creek]

Theres other strategies to win the game everyone uses this as a excuse now and yall so called strat make people uninstall because they cant play the game properly anymore when being instantly tunneled out or laying on the floor for 4 minutes

[winged kraken]

we ARE asking for buffs. the problem is we are getting nerfs without the buffs to counteract it

[valid tide]

Vilkis, I think you're being intentionally obtuse here - let's address the main thing here, which is why killers tunnel

They don't do it for no reason, or because they personally enjoy knowing that someone didn't get to play the game. They're doing it because it's the most effective way to give them a leg-up against the competition

[fierce creek]

spreading hooks dont need to have rewards to be the most effective strategy if tunneling is punishing enough to be a bad play to do it

[fierce creek]

so you are asking for buffs?

buffs for specific killers I hope

that has nothign to do with nerfs/buffs to the class in general

[delicate cliff]

you are missing the entire point... bro, for a strategy to be effective, you have to use the tools for its execution, in this case the mechanics of the game. YES you can BUFF or NERF these mechanics, this will determine effectiveness of the strategy, but also affect other things. You dont nerf/buff the strategy itself... geez

[winged kraken]

yeah

[valid tide]

It's become a major pain point for people who main Survivors and has been for a while - BHVR has gone on record saying that it is not bannable by any means, since it is a strategy for winning, but they've made it clear that they don't want to encourage it as a playstyle because it's inherently not fun

[verbal lance]

Then they need to make not doing it more viable.

[shell pumice]

your acting like this happens every game, the same logic here can be said to remove flashlight saves or sabo squads cuz killers were upset at this

[valid tide]

So, ideally, the way to go about this is to discourage the strategy and encourage other strategies instead

[delicate cliff]

yes, or expand upon the viable strategies

[shell pumice]

so lets not reward killers at all is what ur saying? im fine with the tunneling nerf but not rewarding killers is insane

[fierce creek]

I am not missing your point I just think you are wrong, you can absolutly nerf a strategy directly

[mint creek]

It happens every second game I don’t even run any of these neither does my team does but they still do it

[valid tide]

They've gone the route of, in this PTB, seriously giving people a hard time if they do tunnel - but they've also given killers some new tools, chiefly the Bloodlust on hooking a survivor who is not the most recently hooked survivor

[fierce creek]

I dont think killers needs rewards as a role in general because I think the role in general is in a very very strong place

[shell pumice]

no it does not, do u have any stats of this

[misty yew]

A meta can be made around tunneling or camping with it being fair. Identity V does that (if you find it fun or not is subjective), but it does and can work with enough effort. I just don't think DBD can pull it off due to all the variables in this game compared to identity. So I think our best option is just making other strategies more appealing. So we're not seeing the same 7 perks every other game.

[valid tide]

BHVR is unfortunately not historically good at balancing, as shown again right now, but they want to address it

[mint creek]

You still had chances and counter against camping in idv (I quit the game 3 years ago can’t say how it’s now)

[shell pumice]

now ur just ragebaiting lmao

[mint creek]

So you want proof of me quitting the game after so many years bcs of this ?

[stoic scarab]

||This is very entertaining to read ngl||

[misty yew]

I still play it, and you still do, but the game is actually balanced around the idea of camping and tunneling and slugging. Like with the base kit get up they have.

[fierce creek]

? I love when instead of talking about my argument peopel just say "ragebait" what do you disagree with? killer has a record high 63% kill rate overall, how is that not very good numbers

[shell pumice]

are YOU the center of balancing

[misty yew]

It's gotten a lot better, I recommend checking it out again.

[mint creek]

Time to drop dbd and play idv again bcs dbd is a joke

[mint creek]

I wishhh but I’m forced to play on mobile

[shell pumice]

pretty sure dcs count towards kill rates no?

[valid tide]

I think it'd be fun to have this conversation in good faith with eachother but we're all convinced the other side has it out for eachother

[verbal lance]

Games with DCs are excluded from stats, I thought.

[shell pumice]

its some weird inaccurate way of measuring thats all i know

[valid tide]

unfortunately no - per my understanding, DCs count as Escapes

Which is not great

[mint creek]

It’s more people than just me maybe read some tweets about this how bout that

[shell pumice]

instead of searching for tweets show stats or something, you cant say it happens every other game cuz of experience alone

[proud pebble]

Checking twitter for opinions 🥀 💔

[verbal lance]

The devs said that tunneling occurs in 40% of matches I think, during the dev stream, but the definition they used to arrive at that is absurd, so the real number is probably much lower.

[misty yew]

Is the anti camping bar affected by your distance from the hook or does it only care about your time spent in range? Cause I'm getting mixed results from my testing.

[shell pumice]

i hope they keep the way auto haven looks from this ptb though, i really like it

[mint creek]

Do it urself maybe ?

[valid tide]

We may enable ourselves to assume that most people in this server and on twitter probably take the game more seriously than the average player - if camping happens half as often as the Devs say it does, so in One out of every Five games, then the casual survivor might think that that's a bit too often, no?

[shell pumice]

comes in with argument
states false stats backed up by experience and twitter
has no idea what he's talking about and never once looked into it
we've lost all common sense

[mint creek]

On top of that the event was unplayable

[valid tide]

The average player doesn't really care about much other than their own enjoyment, and it's unfun when you or someone else in your game gets tunneled out. It's either that you didn't get to play, or it's a death sentence for your team unless you guys really lock in

And, again, we're talking about the casual, average player. They're not going to lock in.

[mint creek]

Babes I know exactly what is happening in my games better than you

[shell pumice]

once again are you the center of balancing

[verbal lance]

To be honest, this is all mostly a matchmaking problem, not a mechanics problem.

[misty yew]

I mean fair, but I also think the devs definitions are a bit skewed. According to their chart 8-24 meters is proxy camping, which I can vaguely understand, a bit much maybe given that's just a stealth killers entire terror radius, but I can get behind that. But they increase the face camping meter to almost exactly match their definition of proxy camping, being newly 20 meters. So... Is it anti face camping or proxy camping? You're giving mixed singles bhvr.

[verbal lance]

I have over 2k hours in the game and I still get people in my lobbies with 50 hours.

[valid tide]

This is also credible

[mint creek]

So people can’t speak up ?

[shell pumice]

what you were saying is valid, then you brought in the fact it happens every other game which is just unarguably wrong and a clear overexaggeration

[valid tide]

I do think it's notable that, when this change was made, a particular sect of killer mains decided to learn exactly how far away they could stand from hook so they could camp it without increasing the gauge

Ranged killers like Huntress, Deathslinger, and Pyramid Head especially

[verbal lance]

You say that like survivors won't look at the buffs they get off hook and try to min-max how to effectively use those against the killer. Both sides will use the mechanics available to their advantage. This is how games work.

[valid tide]

Nobody's giving up a good strategy as long as it works

Camping mostly went away when generators got faster

[misty yew]

I get that, really I do, I just think they should at least be consistent with their definitions. Cause at that point it's not anti face camping it's anti proxy, by their own definition. At least admit it's for proxy camping now or something.

[mint creek]

It happens to me and my friends makes us more people not enjoying the game as we used to so we simply speak up that this is extremely annoying and unenjoyable to play against ALSO as a killer player who has a lot of hours on both sides my (tw) opinion is it that you don’t need all that to win

[verbal lance]

You don't in low-mid MMR but you do in high.

[valid tide]

There was someone else here who advocated for survivors unhooked getting no collision for the duration of their Elusive status effect, as well as making it so that hits would prioritize people with collision over people without. It would make it so that the killer wouldn't be able to just bodyblock someone to reduce the distance they make after an unhook, as well as disallow unhooked survivors the ability to use their speed and endurance aggressively to bodyblock

[mint creek]

I play on high mmr too I never said I don’t

[verbal lance]

Then you have never played against a very good team if you think tunneling is not required to win in some cases.

[shell pumice]

what your saying here is valid, its your opinion. saying it happens as much as you did and that it needs to be removed because of said reason was just blatanly incorrect

[verbal lance]

Yep, that person was me. Or maybe someone else did, too, but I made that suggestion last night.

[mint creek]

I play a killer I spent hundreds of hours to practice on if you master a killer that good its OPINION not needed

[granite vessel]

Tunneling is required sometimes and as it is now it’s still possible the goal to make tunneling not as obnoxious is fine just the way they’ve done it isn’t amazing

[misty yew]

It's not a fantastic win but I'm glad my Onyrō didn't get completely destroyed with this ptb. So, improvement over all I guess

[verbal lance]

I have as well, and it's not usually needed in pub matches, but it can be needed in some.

[hexed pilot]

Is skully finally somewhat decent

[verbal lance]

So the opinion of the devs apparently is those matches should just be unwinnable.

[misty yew]

Debatable

[mint creek]

Use it on bully squads or hard core sweats can be a option yes using it on people who casually want to play the game no but unfortunately people don’t care

[shell pumice]

loading into a game with SM right now with zero slowdown and ill lyk how it goes

[verbal lance]

Agreed, but the current changes lack that distinction.

[mint creek]

Lmk I miss her sm

[mint creek]

Unfortunately which is also a Opinion of mine is that the game turned into a comp game to much

[verbal lance]

Games are naturally competitive. That is always going to happen. The solution is not pretending it hasn't happened or hoping it won't continue.

It's basically the same thing as saying "the game was more fun when people didn't know so much about it," which is probably true, but it's also not going to change.

[mint creek]

We all know that these weird decisions from bhvr will stay until there is no competition

[verbal lance]

Yeah and that makes me sad.

They really need to just add a ranked queue with visible MMR. Put all this handholdy garbage in casual mode.

[mint creek]

Thank you.

Unlikely to happen though

[verbal lance]

It will be healthier for the game in the long run.

[mint creek]

Also maybe some devs who play their own game before releasing stuff

[verbal lance]

I swear the weird decisions they make can be completely explained by them playing the game at a low skill level and only seeing the problems there, so when they try to fix the problems at low skill levels they don't consider what that will do to the high skill levels.

[mint creek]

I don’t think they tested krasue before they released her

[verbal lance]

I'm sure they did, they're just not good enough players to understand why she was so busted in the right hands.

[fickle crane]

Well I think they expected her to be really strong because they gave her the reduced hook buffs on the PTB

[misty yew]

I think they did, she just didn't seem as problematic with all the changes they had in mind with the ptb.

[mint creek]

Imo until they don’t listen or take opinions from high skill player and just push through everything unhealthy the game will stay in that horrible state it is rn

[verbal lance]

Well the other side of the coin is that listening only to the high skill players will upset the balance at lower skill levels, so I am sympathetic to that. I think that's why we need separated casual and ranked modes that can be balanced differently.

[valid tide]

I mean I guess that is also a notable issue - some of those average, casual players make up seemingly the entire development team for this game

[misty yew]

A lot of the changes feel like they're tested in a vacuum without considering what they pair with.

[verbal lance]

Exactly.

Babysitter is a huge WTF in an update that wants you to chase the person who unhooked.

[fierce creek]

you are funny

[mint creek]

Unfortunately it’s not just the balance issue but also the empty rift missing parts a huge amount of bugs not being patched for months

[verbal lance]

If you want the killer to go after the person who unhooked, don't give chase buffs to the person who unhooked.

[shell pumice]

honestly shes not that bad no more, evenly spread out hooks when i couldve tunneled and ended in a 3k. for no slowdown aswell i think she's alright, you gotta abuse the drones alot tho

[mint creek]

Finally she’s somewhat playable again

[shell pumice]

she's not prime SM anymorebut she might be out trapper tier with this

[mint creek]

At least usable I enjoyed her (yall can hate me for that idc)

[shell pumice]

she was honestly really fun and a good break from dash/high mobility killers

[mint creek]

My actual main is artist but I played sm when I wanted to play more casual also love her design

[shell pumice]

people are heavily exagerrating the slugging and tunneling changes too ngl😭 while its not a bad idea the gameplay itself isnt too different if they dont push it any further and maybe reward killers a tiny bit more id be fine with it

[verbal lance]

Rework Babysitter and BT, and maybe add basekit BBQ and a small pain res to the killer bonuses for a unique hook and I'd feel a lot less bad about it.

[mint creek]

Unfortunately many people don’t play the ptb because they either refuse to or don’t play on pc so they instantly go into bhvrs comments whinning

[shell pumice]

perfect, both sides strategies switch up a bit its a fair trade instead of just completly removing a strat like what was suggested

[mint creek]

I have a huge feeling they will scrap the entire thing and the community is once again mad over nothing we all know the outcome from last time

[fierce creek]

I agree, give killer also 20% haste, wall hacks and noed

for unique hooks

[verbal lance]

Or instead of pain res make it so each unique hook adds a slight gen repair speed debuff for the rest of the match. That's really the only way to make it comparable to tunneling out in terms of slowing down gens.

[mint creek]

It’s not that deep really

[fierce creek]

also make dms basekit and be 60 secs

[verbal lance]

Don't bother, it's quintessential survivor main drivel he spews.

[shell pumice]

the change last time was lowkey overkill though, completly killed a strat without rewarding the other side. this change was softer and bloodlust is a little nice on slower killers they shouldnt scrap it all though

[fierce creek]

wdym? they need to make unique hooks rewardable

else how will killer players even hook any1 but the last guy

[shell pumice]

in my opinion the resolve meter while slugged should stop/slowdown if another survivor is within 10 meters and im fien with this change

[granite vessel]

the conditions for the bloodlust going away needs to be looked at though it shouldnt go away when ghostface enters stealth for example

[mint creek]

So the I never played killer in my life because I’m ahh at the game type of guy

[fierce creek]

🤣

[shell pumice]

i didnt test this far yet but does it remove on power?

[granite vessel]

yes

[verbal lance]

Basically yes.

[shell pumice]

thats stupid then😭 should be like the old ptb where some killers got it differently

[verbal lance]

Yep the bloodlust is useless on like half the roster and the other half it doesn't really help that much anyway.

[granite vessel]

it makes sense for some like spirit or blight or nurse but not ghostface or trapper

[mint creek]

Don’t bother then talking to a wall won’t help anyway

[alpine spindle]

The devs have two main issues:

They treat symptoms instead of causes and they're addicted to negative reinforcement instead of posititive reinforcement.

They will never make a deterrent strong enough to stop camping, slugging, or tunnelling unless it's completely absurd, what they actually need to do is make a buff so good that killers don't want to do any of that - but we all know that's handholding.

[fierce creek]

maybe I am not ass at the game

killer in pubs is mostly extremely easy

[verbal lance]

That's basically it, unless you make not tunelling someone out at least as good as tunelling someone out, tunneling will still happen.

[mint creek]

Then sit down and be quiet ?

[fierce creek]

😮

[shell pumice]

the weird part about balancing is that we have such a balance difference that if we got a big buff for killers characters like nurse will just go INSANE. if you nerf it characters like trapper suffer, theres little to no middle grounds

[fierce creek]

lmaooooo

oh no I am not circlejerking with the other killer players 😮

[shell pumice]

this does not prove anything

[fierce creek]

🤔 It proves I played killer something he said I never did?

[verbal lance]

That's the problem with solos and SWF as well. That's why so many of these changes are so problematic. They probably won't matter that much in most games, but when going against a good team they will now be unstoppable because of all of the buffs they can use more effectively than solos. The power gap between solo/SWF and low/high tier killers needs to be closed first.

[shell pumice]

show the full stats not just the killrate

[mint creek]

Thank you

Mr tuffknuckels ur mad over others suggestions and opinions you are one of the main problems the game has

[mint creek]

You just have to look at his steam reviews and you already know it’s no point arguing with that guy

[fierce creek]

mad? no one is mad fam

I am just sharing that I think killers should get more buffs like 20% haste

[alpine spindle]

Yeah that's the reality of it until they individually nerf killers or buff lower tier killers which will never happen as they prefer to do generalized changes.

The most balanced way(but probably the most boring & unfun way)would be to add base kit slow down per unique hook, deadman-esque and change how perks that block gens work.

[fierce creek]

the weird part about balancing is that we have people that only see one side of the coin

like you

you dont care about the average survivor experience, if you do you clearly dont care enough to talk about it since you only talk about the killer side

[shell pumice]

he dodged the request so its pretty obvious

[valid tide]

Decided to leave this conversation in order to play a game of DBD on the PTB

[shell pumice]

dude u showed ur KILLER stats not ur surv stats

[fierce creek]

what request?

[valid tide]

Killer tunneled someone out of the game

So far I'm actually seeing more people tunneling survivors in the PTB than I do in any live server games

[shell pumice]

^^^^^ @fierce creek

[valid tide]

I played four games today, which isn't a large number, but I can say that half of them now have had killers who tunnel survivors aggressively

[alpine spindle]

Yeah people are always going to be trying to tunnel as hard as possible in a ptb about not doing that.

[shell pumice]

speaking of killrate though i might be the worst houndmaster in the world

[alpine spindle]

gotta test it early before it hits live.

[valid tide]

The thing is that, though people here (and myself) agree that it'll only work if the survivors are bad

It is actually the case that these survivors are just That Bad

[alpine spindle]

Any buffs to survivors unequally apply to anyone who isn't terrible or in a swf - it's a pretty crazy multipler.

[valid tide]

Yeah

[alpine spindle]

most survivors are terrible though which is the problem.

[shell pumice]

the main feature is tunneling you gotta see how bad it changed

[valid tide]

One of the worst offenders this game has nearly 700 hours in the game and they were actually just outright terrible at the game

The other two had hidden profiles, but like, no generator time, no ability to extend a chase, no ability to lead the killer away from objectives, and when the killer started slugging they A. Refused to split up and B. Repeatedly picked themselves up off the ground in front of the killer

Just genuinely an embarrassing game. I wish Survivor players were smarter.

[misty yew]

Probably cause the tutorial is such an insult to the concept of what a tutorial is meant to be.

[valid tide]

I mean

[alpine spindle]

Yeah that is a factor.

now they auto equip you with the worst perk on your character so they can say nobody runs perkless now lul.

[valid tide]

We're playing a game where people can look at playtime in the thousands of hours and still reasonably assume that that person isn't very good, either

I think that's a problem as well - you not only have to really get this game in order to play at the top level, you need to dedicate a lot of time, effort, and practice as well

I agree that the way BHVR is doing things is pretty heavy handed and sloppy, but raising the skill floor of the game isn't a bad idea either

Would love if there was some way to encourage survivors jumping on generators, though

Apparently "It's How you Win the Game" isn't enough incentive to get people to sit down and do them

[alpine spindle]

Your average survivor has no game sense, you'll have 3 gens left and 2 survivors at 0 hook stages stealthing the killer.

[misty yew]

There will always be people who just refuse to actually improve and hover around the same skill bracket (like being stuck in Platinum in shooters). These types of players will always exist and negatively affect the data.

[alpine spindle]

and wonder why their mates got tunneled out.

[valid tide]

I mean I'm looking at this screenshot and it's just embarrassing, holy moly

They all have top tier perks, medkits and toolboxes with Iri Add-ons, and the killer was a Wraith with No Perks and he just absolutely obliterated them

And these are survivors who are dedicated enough to know about and access the PTB

We gotta burn these guys alive

It's the only way forward

[gray night]

Should show the ss.

DM me

[shell pumice]

or when they trade hooks early on and give the killers free hook states for no reason, then question why they got tunneled

[gray night]

Same thing is true in the opposite direction

Reason they have a higher rate of success (kr) on average.

Is because its the power role

[gray night]

Pretty much.

And saying it doesnt mean anything is such a wierd take.

This is the game mode everyone plays when we press play. So it means pretty much everything.

People like to act they play some different game mode and that their mode is somehow harder than ours/yours.

When for pretty much every experienced player, we all play the same pub matches.

[fierce creek]

🤐 I litteraly said a thing and bro got gigga salty at me

[fierce creek]

also if you rly rly want my stats Ican give you

nothign special I dont play much killer

[gray night]

Karneki blight zzzz god damnit

Wraith good on you though 😄

Watching otz sort of breakdown of the entire PTB things ... 50/50 on his ideas

Think his slugging is unfortunately putting too much good faith in why people slug. Rather than the simple explaination of low risk high reward

Same for tunneling honestly. Really always in this games history people generally do these things because its just simply the highest reward for the lowest risk.

Killers are tunneling at almost no pressure, which they constantly do even in his own vods, not because they feel like they have to for any of the reasons listed

[raven flume]

is the ptb up rn

[shell pumice]

This changes a lot of what u were saying earlier but no need to go into that again when discussion is over

[maiden oyster]

So far I think the survivor changes are fine. Yeah ima say it, and I dont even play survivor at all. When I do it is for a quest or something stupid.

What Im not cool with is how poorly Killers are being balanced and how useless the Killer rewards for hooks and such are.

That needs to be fixed. I'm not saying Killers should suddenly gain cosmic awareness and end all life- but 15 seconds of blood lust that immediately stops on any ability activation sucks.... That's awful..

On top of that, Ghostface is bottom barrel levels bad, a ton of Killers are not performing or doing enough to properly compete in the game. I say compete as in active play, not competitive gameplay.

[fierce creek]

please tell me what does it change?

[shell pumice]

you using ur kill rate to say your experienced, then switching to say u dont play killer much

[fierce creek]

I play killer enough

enough to know how the game is and feels for both sides

[shell pumice]

these stats show u play high tier killers mainly, going past the poitn we were stating earlier about how different killers would feel about the update

[fierce creek]

wraith is top tier 😳

[gray night]

Their point was the barrier for entry to be succesful on killer is pretty low

[shell pumice]

correct me if im wrong but 35 is very far from 7%

[fierce creek]

dont you know we only use low tier killer's experience to generalize the killer role

[maiden oyster]

Anyone can be with enough experience but there is objective truth to a Killers potential and ease of accessing that potential.

Anyway, I just think Killer rewards for unique hooks and such should be improved on. I think lessening the pallet density too, not saying remove it, cut it in half tho.

Killers in lower end skill potential need buffs as well. Killers in general dont need a lot, but the lower end ones do need attention and need to be given more power.

This entire PTB wouldn't be received badly if we didn't have so many low end killers ngl

[gray night]

Think uniques should be more thought out for sure.

The same token though. Killers that are way too high and have been for ... their entire release, need to be addressed.

People dont like the words nerf blight/billy/kaneki/nurse though

And thats not all that need nerfed asll well

Double iri plague shouldnt be a thing period for example

[maiden oyster]

I agree to this. Nurse needs to be thrown down a notch or two, she has consistently been meta for years

Buff low end killers
Reduce high ends, fix pallet density, improve unique hooks

[gray night]

My ideal of dbd would be B tier and some top C.

Rest of the tiers should just not be a thing

[maiden oyster]

Agreed, and even then, the Cs should be objective starter characters

With potential to play like a B level

[gray night]

Like im happy currently with SM after the changes.

Its huge for us who primarily play her still.

For the average player its probably not that great though.

[maiden oyster]

SM?

[gray night]

I would put her somewhere in C but understand ... for the average user. She could use more work

[maiden oyster]

Skull Merch

[gray night]

yea

[maiden oyster]

Okay yeah, no I agree. Shes also just been rlly underpowered for a while.

She deserves the buffs.

[gray night]

Like specialized players right now on the ptb.

We eating happy.

But it would be a hard ask to say this is it for the average dbd player

[maiden oyster]

Itll be quick for people to adapt to it, so im not concerned

Yeah

[maiden oyster]

If they do this, Killers wont complain at all and if they do, they shouldn't be.

[gray night]

You're gonna get pushback for reducing high ends no matter what lol

There are legit... probably most of #game-discussion that think blight is in a fine spot and doesnt need nerfs

[maiden oyster]

I didnt know he was so busted because of those ppl

I learned a few days ago how unhinged he is in game, ppl here lead me to believe he was low tier or just fine

[gray night]

Thats just this discord in general from what I see on game discussion.

Just asking for buffs to their side, and no nerfs to their side.

0 self awareness

[maiden oyster]

No, Killers deserve nerfs, but blanket nerfs absolutely not. We need more of the initial PTB killer changes where buffs would be killer specific.

We need to stop addressing issues at a blanket view.

It doesnt work and it makes things worse for everyone.

[gray night]

Yea for sure.

Blanket nerfs across some ... arbitrary thing would be silly

[robust pike]

I think a lot of issues would be fixed by closing the power gap in killers some (either with buffs to weaker or nerfs to stronger, probably a mix of both) and to close the gap with solo que and swfs

That said, this ptb does the opposite of both- SWF's benefit more from these changes than solo que (although solo does benefit), driving that gap further, and it further weakens the weakest killers in the game, making the power imbalance between say, blight and trapper even greater than it was.

I think better communication in game for solo que should have been a first priority before changes like these, although some changes were certainly inevitable and thats fine

[gray night]

Specific to each killer absolutely

[maiden oyster]

Agreed

[gray night]

I dont know if its a problem they ever will fix.

SWF always getting the better end of everything.

Even if you allow comms on soloQ. Theres still SOOoo many problems that would happen

[robust pike]

for sure, but it would at least be nice if they tried

[gray night]

Not everyone has a mic... not everyone wants to be a team player... not everyone even speaks the same language.....

Really comes down to how cohesive you are as a group rather than just knowing information

We see this in soloQ all the time WITH KINDRED.

And you just have clueless or not participating teammates

[robust pike]

true, i think a chat wheel that auto-translates would be a good start

[maiden oyster]

Literally Killer community would have like little to nothing to say if they buffed low and mid level killers and left thr high ends to dry, and brought the high ends down a peg. Sure the high tier killer plays like Blight, Nurse etc will cry about it, but they suck at the game and crutch on those killers.

[robust pike]

as a trapper and hag main i gotta say this ptb is pretty upsetting, since ive been struggling to even have fun games since the pallet update- not that i havent won, it just hasnt been fun

[maiden oyster]

Survivor ping and simple command wheel like
"Need healing."
"Generators need repair"
"Go here"
"Killer spotted"
Etc

[gray night]

A ping wheel is something I suggested awhile ago and yea...

COnditional ones that show up based on perks in play

For example: You have Reassurance

A new ping category opens up for "I am using reassurance on you"

[maiden oyster]

I main Springtrap, Im already playing the game in a way that survivors naturally have an edge over me. Im not fast, I have an unreliable secondary and they can have anything like decisive or sprint burst and I just have to tolerate I lost that chase entirely. More so with the PTB

Springtrap and so many other killers need help, some just need some minor buffs, others like Ghostface need some major ones.

[granite vessel]

ghostface realistically needs a rework

more than anyone else id argue

[robust pike]

i think one of the biggest issues is the devs overlooking killer issues entirely to cater to survivors completely-

like in their survey they used before the recent stream, there was a question with the general idea of "what do you not like about the game" with answers like, lag or lighting or whatever- but there were like 3 questions that said explicity "Killers tunneling" "Killers slugging" "Killers camping", and if killers had any issues with survivors they would need to manually write it in under the "Other" category- which probably got disregarded into just the "other" bar on the graph

[maiden oyster]

Kinda. Just give him speed during stalk and charge rate is faster. Rework some of his add ons.

He doesnt need a full rework but he may need something new for sure.

[maiden oyster]

Yeah its not a healthy system..

[granite vessel]

idk i just dont think his stalk works well in modern dbd he has absolutely 0 pressure and his design just doesnt function around a functioning team im fine with the stalk staying, its fitting but he needs something on top of it to create map pressure

he also 100% needs a pyramid head style add-on rework

[maiden oyster]

Maybe when someone is marked they suffer from something or Ghost gets a haste increase? I agree, Stalk isnt super good and needs fixing but it is imo, defining of his entire kit, and should stay.

[granite vessel]

Yeah I agree its super thematic for ghostface removing it would make ghostface not ghostface a smaller change i could agree with would be to make a bunch of his current add ons basekit like imo a large amount should be already. "Philly", Walleye's Matchbook, Headline Cutouts, and Cheap Cologne should all be basekit all his common add-ons at least. But also some of his add-ons that give status effects when youre marked should be basekit and his add-ons that give status effect to the person who breaks his stealth gotta go.

[robust pike]

i think he def needs some love but demogorgon is borderline identical to release but with (somehow) worse addons, like 4 of them are even considered viable since the rest are like 1 sec undetectable increase or something else- so id love to see him get some love

[granite vessel]

Demo is up there too imo but Ghostface is like really bad with really unremarkable add-ons which it feels like he has to bring all of with iris that feel underwhelming

[maiden oyster]

Demo, Ghost, Myers, Springtrap and many others are in need of performance enhancements whether it be reworking add ons, stats or buffs or reworks, idc, we have too many killers that need help.

[robust pike]

fair tbh, ive been saying a fun demo rework would be to give his portals preset spawns like alien but making them behave similar to the void event (where demo and survivors can enter to get a buff, but giving survivors a heavy disadvantage to being inside the upside down)

[granite vessel]

i think he needs a more major rework as well as reworking how his stalking works to make it feel more consistent ot use

[granite vessel]

Myers is in a fantastic spot rn

I also think Springtrap is in a pretty good spot he could use some stronger add-ons imo but hes like solidly b tier

[robust pike]

Meyers is very very strong but his power is now just identical to pig dash but better in every single way entirely

[granite vessel]

and imo b tier should be the goal of killer balance (some ofc will be lower and some will be higher)

[robust pike]

which like, as a former pig main i cant help but be a little upset lmao

[granite vessel]

he feels very fun to use as of now idk man

[maiden oyster]

Is he? Well good, I havent kept up on him lately

[robust pike]

oh yeah no fs he is very fun but the powers are identical, so pig prob needs a rework (which, long time coming tbh)

[maiden oyster]

This, this is all he needs. And maybe fix some of the axes inconsistencies, thats all he needs.

[robust pike]

im an avid meyers lover before and after the rework but man.. two of my former mains have the exact same power but one is just better

[granite vessel]

i really really wish they took the time they spent on these anti camp, anti slug and anti tunnel changes to instead go back and look at older/weaker killers and giving them individual buffs or minor reworks

this period of no to little content wouldve been the perfect time even if it was only stuff like what theyve done for sm where they just gave her stat increases

anyways

i really hope pinhead being in this ptb is a sign from mr. behavior himself

[robust pike]

thiiiissssss

[granite vessel]

maybe im fucked up and confused but they couldnt just put him into the ptb without the license?

[robust pike]

also dont forget- they delayed a licensed chapter for 2 months for this ptb

like, this feels like it couldve been put in with the chapter not.. as a complete replacement?

especially for changes that will probably be watered down 90% before they even make it to live

[gray night]

imo they need to stop with the releases and focus on what they have.

[robust pike]

i think more care into what already exists should be happening, but i dont know if delaying licenses is good for the game as itd be harder to get new ones if they made the license holders wait

[gleaming magnet]

I get the changes are to help new survivors but as a new killer it makes the game even harder for me. I already dont have any good perks because they take so long to unlock, and they match me against thousand hour 4 man groups as a brand new player.. I feel like they dont care about the new player killer experience..

And new players are coming to play as their fav characters, licensed killers. I dont think people are buying the game and excited to play as survivor as much as theyre excited to play as their favorite characters from their favorite horror franchises, then they find out those characters are trash it really turns new players away more than anything honestly

[granite vessel]

this would flatline the game

this game lives and dies by its content flow

[gray night]

I dont think so.

Bloat for the sake of bloat and not quality wouldnt do that to dbd

We cant just stick to a schedule of a new killer all the time, release it in a broken state.

Address none of hte problems that have existed for years at the highest end of killer play or survivor play

[granite vessel]

ofc good content is better but if they stop unpadting the game just wont produce the money bhvr is looking for

[gray night]

Its clearly too much for this company to handle

And the problem gets worse with every killer released

[granite vessel]

if they just stop releasing chapters the game will die in like a year's time and before that the game would quickly lose players

this game as well as other live service games have a core audience that is small and will stick with the game for a while after updates stop releasing but that core community can almost never keep a game alive alone

[gray night]

I think there is a fine line between releasing content and fixing issues.

And they are so far over in the releasing content portion, that it is just for greed at this point

[coarse lotus]

we just have smol legs.. We are fast but I rather have a buff over a rework that turns us into another dash killer

[granite vessel]

personally i think maybe they should slow down their release of content and focus the time they wouldve spent on improving the content in the game already

but stopping with chapters would kill the game and eventually get the servers shut down

[gray night]

dont think anyone is saying to do this

[granite vessel]

WHAT

stop with the releases?????

[gray night]

That doesnt mean ignore releases flat out

means stop spamming them so much

[granite vessel]

we both used almost the same wording in these messages

[gray night]

I remember when things did not used to be this quick between each killer release or ... set of perks or ... survivor skins

[fierce creek]

black or white falacies, my favourites in this discord

[coarse lotus]

personally i think this PTB sucks ass.. i cant play because if i dare to hook at least ONE they just DC after the first hook.. while im playing someone like ghostface.. type WHAT THE FUCK! you get the buffs you guys cried about and you still ragequit after the first hook. like what the fuck

[gray night]

Like how much time did we even have between the walking dump, smoke bombs, krasue, a new map,

Was like... barely a month. The ass end of july and mid september for all this lol

Like SLOW DOWN for christ sakes

[coarse lotus]

I remember hating krasue with my whole existance..

[granite vessel]

"stop with the releases" is very easy to interpret as stop releasing content. there's such things as just miscommunication

[gray night]

Like right now they dont need a new killer or survivor for at least a few months. This whole one month rush thing they have going on is just insane

How are you supposed to work on anything else if thats their plan lol

[granite vessel]

personally i think they need to do more ptbs like the one rn that doesnt have new content that are purely for balance changes i think it would give them great insight on the community and would let them avoid releasing horribly broken shit theyve been cramming too much in content ptbs recently

monthly ptbs regardless of how much new content is in each is a good idea

[coarse lotus]

exactly, like how are they gonna balanced everything well with this rush..

THATS HOW WE ENDED UP HERE... for the entity sake..

[granite vessel]

i really think after year 10 theyll probably slow down but i dont think theyd wanna start any major changes for the 10th anni

[fierce creek]

brodda survivor releases dont disrupt the meta even close to as much

[gray night]

conviction would say otherwise

[lofty fog]

I hope this patch fails and they do another we will think about it

Cause i know they will give the killers 2% for 30 seconds and 1000 bps

Then give small buffs to skull merchant and trapper.

[merry drum]

People say "this ptb is survivor sided" like mf... NO SHIT have you seen what they gave survivors compared to what they gave killers as an "incentive to stop tunneling"

[young forum]

ghoul is also nurse speed after cancelling a dash for some reason

[celest hare]

Oh I heard about that and thought it was a bug with the hook bloodlust

They said something about chases and nurse speed. Anyway don't play ghoul in the ptb LMAO

[young forum]

it's sometimes when you cancel power you get stuck being very slow

well cancelling power can cause it for sure, not sure if there are other ways to trigger it as well.

[dull light]

Ghoul is bugged in the PTB, if he kagune marks someone, he will sometimes become slower than a survivor

[dusty edge]

@eager crescent 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[ripe bison]

https://youtu.be/xbBtzMF3Kw4?si=VCs1mTr_StQGF5FZ

Ost for the ptb

[granite vessel]

the ptb isnt THAT bad

[ripe bison]

How long is the ptb running for?

[neon ember]

They need to make it so all characters start unlocked in every ptb

[granite vessel]

doesnt it give you like 20k auric cells for the ptb

that should be enough to get them all i think

[neon ember]

yeah no it's only enough for all of one side surv or killer

and some on the other

[silent stone]

The problem is exactly that. Killers don’t gain anything as compensation

And the effects survivors have are insanely op

Slugging and tunneling were two strats that a killer can use to regain some control over the match

In some situations it’s simply the only reasonable thing you can do.

Now that isn’t viable at all and killers can’t even be compensated for it

[hard condor]

12.5k

[brazen slate]

How I can play in PTB? I play the game post Pinhead removal, and I heard he is available in PTB.

[granite vessel]

only if youre on steam right click dbd on your game list go properties then betas and change to the public test beta branch

it should look like this when you do it and then you just update the game

you can go back and forth the same way between live and ptb

[brazen slate]

TY

[dusty edge]

@drifting magnet 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[shut inlet]

rip

usually skull merchant will get an m1 before she can even get a claw trap ngl

[granite vessel]

sm feels so much better after the buffs

[coarse lotus]

Also ngl, it seems skull.merchant just makes 80% of the survivors he faces DC after the first down

Like the moment you pick someone they DC

[granite vessel]

yes this has been a thing forever

After facing my first 30 second body block in the ptb I can firmly say 30 seconds is too long

[woven pasture]

? the endurance they get after hook

[fathom bane]

is it just me, or is the PTB kinda dead atm

[merry drum]

Time for 10 min morning q

[tropic anchor]

What in the Suboptimal pathing

[fathom bane]

i haven't gotten a queue for 40 minutes
lmao

[cloud socket]

holy bro can you go wider????

the wall doesn’t bite you bro 😭

[young forum]

just have to immediately tunnel every single hook, always go back to hook, and camp to second stage if they don't unhook immediately so it can never be used aggressively. Tunnel every time and the anti tunnel can only be used when you are actually tunnelling.

[vital zealot]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-spongebob-seriously-wow-omg-gif-3046552972864491436

[merry drum]

is that towards me or the guy lmao

[vital zealot]

the guy

i love and hate these types of interactions

theyre funny but its concerning how sure people are of themselves when they are clearly dumb as a bag of hammers

[celest hare]

God this community never fails to be fucking stupid

[merry drum]

yeah the dude just left when he realized what my addon does

[celest hare]

It's a really funny screenshot to be fair lmaoo

[merry drum]

dudes on youtube too lmao its funny af

[vital zealot]

true