ptb-discussion

[hidden dune]

Honestly I only played her these days because im a sucker for stealth mechanics, even bad ones

[gray night]

The tracking doesnt last forever after claw trap it has a duration

[tawny sable]

Would better detection even help her at all since she's a trap killer

[sweet quartz]

What even happened to SM again I forgot

[gray night]

Not really her issue.

Her traps just being not that scary was the problem

Now though I think with the rotation buff. Hinder buff. And vault immunity gone.

They decent.

[low shore]

anyone getting easy anti cheat error?

on the PTB

[hidden dune]

Jak do you have a clip of playing her Id honestly like to see how someone who is really good with her plays

[void pasture]

Nah this the coldest take I’ve seen today

[gray night]

I mean I have part 1-18 of last ptb of straight 3-4ks posted that I linked in here

[void pasture]

Furtive Chase was perfectly fine as is and literally nobody asked for it to be changed yet of course leave it to the devs to randomly screw shit up for no reason

[hidden dune]

Like how tf does occasional hinders and injuries make a clip montage :3

Joking but still

[sweet quartz]

And one last perk complaint, Barrowed Time also didn't need to be reworked, I just feel like the time needed to be reduced, maybe 5 or 6 seconds at tier 3

[gray night]

Well you have to time them right. Which means you have to rotate the drones right

[void pasture]

Meanwhile they haven’t even made syringes that much weaker. Sure they don’t insta heal but who needs an insta heal when you can double sprint burst into narnia

[gray night]

If you think syringes arent weaker now...

Sheesh

[void pasture]

Triple if you use blood rush as well

They’re still strong

[sweet quartz]

What happened to syringes

[gray night]

You literally cannot use them on other teammates now

[void pasture]

Just not for the same reasons as before

[gray night]

Hey guy with perks I dont know.

Heres a syringe.

Oh you dont have any exhaust perks? SHUCKS

Oh your exhaust was almost up? Ah mAN

[void pasture]

Right but it’s so strong for using on yourself

[gray night]

Right but its asinine to even think they are "not weaker now"

[verbal lance]

Nobody is worried about syringes in solos. SWF is going to have a field day with this stuff though.

[low shore]

anyone ghaving issue iwth easy anti cheat?

[verbal lance]

They are widening the gap between solo and SWF even more.

[gray night]

I could just imagine some poor fool yelling at their screen. STOP RUNNING LET ME GIVE YOU YOUR SB BACK

And their soloQ teammate just keeps running away lol

[deft crag]

when is 2v8 coming out

[verbal lance]

Wrong channel dude

[deft crag]

yea mb

[low shore]

bro where can i ask about error when playing PTB

[verbal lance]

Here

[low shore]

I literally cant play it says issue with easy anti cheat

every time i wanna play

[verbal lance]

Tried validating game files?

[low shore]

what is that

[verbal lance]

Of course I can't link to documentation on that process. That would be too easy.

I guess google "steam verify files integrity" since this server is allergic to links.

[low shore]

thx sm

[verbal lance]

No problem. It may not help, but sometimes a corrupt file can cause this.

[void pasture]

They’re still extremely strong is the point

sprint burst is already a braindead perk as is, now people can just use it twice with no consequence

It’s just so dumb from the devs

“We realize that syringes are too strong and can extend chase by giving a free health state, so here’s an effect that lets you extend chase by removing exhasution!!” Like ????

Sure it’s not as effective to use on your teammates now, but due to how good exhaustion perks are at wasting the killers time with almost no skill required and no real consequences, it is still busted as ever

[verbal lance]

The game is too complex for them to competently handle, I think.

They get an idea and instead of thinking it through, looking for syngergies with perks/items/addons, they just do it.

[long vine]

borrowed time is a worse form of swf bullying. why do they take away solo abilities like conviction and make swf stronger. pair borrowed time with ds. they can just get up again after tanking a hit for another survivor. solo q survivors needed extra help not swf

[verbal lance]

This is how we got Wicked + Resurgence. This is how we got old MfT.

[void pasture]

Crazy cuz they’re just buffing survivor for the most part while not really giving killers all that much. Furtive Chase got taken out back and shot in the head, and survivors can self hook and insta heal in basement with wicked and resurgence

[verbal lance]

The only thing killers really got is synergy with Beast of Prey, but don't worry, I'm sure they'll fix that.

Unreal.

[gray night]

They are only useful for yourself now.

And they only give you an exaust back versus a health state.

So injured but a slightly longer chase.

Versus 2 hits.

Just weaker overall. And you cant even use them on your teammates reliably outside of comms

[void pasture]

Sure BT got reworked but you have base kit endurance, 10% haste, no scratch marks pools of blood or grunts of pain and no sounds for 30 seconds so it kinda doesn’t even matter all that much 😭

[void pasture]

Still strong

I think you’re underestimating how strong of an effect being able to remove exhaustion is

[gray night]

I am not.

Im just responding to your original claim

[void pasture]

sprint burst, vigil, ghost notes and fixated + a syringe and someone with half decent looping skills is gonna be hell for killers

[gray night]

which was this

They havent made them that much weaker.

Categorically false

[void pasture]

I disagree

[gray night]

Literally a personal item now no argument to be made.

You're free to your opinion though

[void pasture]

Which doesnt really matter

[gray night]

Jesus...

[void pasture]

If it’s personal but still very strong it’s only marginally weaker

[dapper bear]

They are making excuses to not nerf The Krasue’s headlong flight… making the syringe a double exhaustation usage is one of them

[gray night]

Its something they did because they made all these anti tunneling changes

[dapper bear]

Smh.

[gray night]

you used to lean on HAVING to syringe them to give them a fighting chance. After an unhook

Now you cant do that.

Which is fine I think

[void pasture]

Well you didn’t have to do that

[gray night]

You didnt have to syring the tunnel to give them a longer chase right.

Good teammate perspective

Look you clearly dont think so thats fine.

They are rediculously weaker overal as an addon now

[young forum]

so the same as every update. nothing new there.

[void pasture]

I meant it’s not a necessity to give them a fighting chance

[gray night]

"just dont get hit"

[void pasture]

They can still have one even if you don’t give them a syringe, depends on how good they are at looping

[gray night]

LOL said exactly what i said look its fine scott

either way I dont really care. Ill be spamming SM

[void pasture]

Well yes… the biggest counter to tunneling is to be good at looping lmao

[gray night]

but syringe is just a joke of an addon now

[young forum]

it deserved to be gutted though

[void pasture]

It becomes a waste of time for the killer if you’re outplaying them. Plus if you’re being tunneled, your teammates can do gens uninterrupted for as long as you’re able to last.

[gray night]

I didnt mind either way with the addon.

But with the changes I see the reason for it to be reworked

[young forum]

didn't mind it either, doesn't mean it wasn't like the strongest item in the game still.

[gray night]

You get enough protections now that you dont have to lean on a syringe to give your tunnel teammate a chance

[ripe bison]

I feel like they coukd easily get around the issue of using syringes mid chase by making it so they can only be used to heal other survivors and not yourself.

[gray night]

LOl

[void pasture]

So no you didn’t need to give a survivor a syringe to give them a fighting chance, not unless they were just terrible at chase.

[young forum]

the survivor hand-holding update

[gray night]

Okay thank god you put that heal line in there

[young forum]

wait no that's every update at this point

[gray night]

Cause after these changes

NOONE should give up their syringe to a teammate

[ripe bison]

Lol

[void pasture]

first the pallet density changes and now all this shit like they really don’t gaf about the killer experience lmfao

[dusty edge]

@buoyant pagoda 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[gray night]

rekt

[ripe bison]

Theyre so inconsistent about bugfixes now

[young forum]

if you watched the live stream they basically said screw all killer players, we don't care about you

[gray night]

Thats...

Not what was said at all

[void pasture]

It’s also funny because 9 times out of 10 when people talk about “making the game better for new players.” what they actually mean is “making the game better for new survivor players.”

[young forum]

they point blank admitted they don't even know what tunnelling is yet they are still trying to nerf it

[dapper portal]

has anyone tested if mettle of man gains stacks if a chain hits a survivor with endurance?

[gray night]

👎

[dapper portal]

i dont wannna boot up ptb to test

[void pasture]

New player wanting to play killer? Too bad you don’t get to have fun

[young forum]

they said ANY time you prioritize a kill you are tunnelling regardless of who was hooked last

[ripe bison]

Apparently the Knight is significantly buggier in the ptb

From what I have heard

[gray night]

link it

[void pasture]

Not surprised

[young forum]

was on the live stream

[void pasture]

wouldn’t be surprised if Houndmaster was buggier to tbh

[gray night]

"trust me bro"

Houndmaster seriously needs to get that dog to work already

[void pasture]

Do they not post vod’s? Genuine question cuz I ain’t watched a single dev stream lmfao

[ripe bison]

Its not even AI related

It has to do with setting patrols

[void pasture]

One time snug got stuck on a literal pile of snow

[gray night]

SM has the drone bug like crazy as well

Place it.
Skill goes on CD

Drone does... NOT go down though

[void pasture]

on the ormond lake mine. I’d sent him to go patrol a gen and he just stopped halfway through 😭

[young forum]

pretty sure it was right at the beginning of the tunnelling section

[gray night]

Then link the timestamp you seem to quote so strongly

HEYT!@

[void pasture]

Yeah I agree with Jak on this lol, you’re making the claim so you need to at least provide the source.

[gray night]

We also have the snug bug pulling away from you still as well

Ai around loops doesnt seem to recognize which direction you are comming from sometimes

[verbal lance]

Well they said they couldn't remember what the third tunneling criterion was. The second one they listed during the stream is not even tunneling, so...

Or at least it isn't always tunneling.

[young forum]

they said they weren't even sure what tunnelling is always

[verbal lance]

Right. And then they showed stats about it saying it's in 40% of games, like you can't even define it correctly, how are you measuring!?

And the current PTB is the result of working from a crap definition of something.

[young forum]

but they also say giving killers a gen kick bonus for unique hooks is too much hand holding

while survivors get base kit babysitter and off the record

[urban coral]

If you’re playing trapper and you set a trap, do you lose the bloodlust (upon unique hook)? And why do they have to rework furtive chase? Can’t they just make it so you don’t get the bloodlust if you’ve activated furtive chase?

[buoyant stone]

Hello chat i get this error ACCOUNT ERROR You are currently logged in on another device, you will be logged out of the other device and connected on your current one. I end up being banned for kicking out of game. Anyone know how to fix it?

[reef portal]

i feel like their definition of tunneling is just going after a survivor after they get unhooked period

they run into you 20 seconds after being unhooked? dont attack them or else you are tunneling

[young forum]

if I hook dwight then hook meg then hook dwight a second time then hook meg then dwight again a third time then I tunnelled dwight apparently.

even though I never hooked him 2 times in a row and there was always a hook in between his last hook. prioritizing a kill is tunnelling.

[grand night]

THEY BOTCHED SYRINGE

[young forum]

deserved nerf though

strongest add on in the game, it deserved worse than it got

and they will still probably backpedal because of survivor outrage

[rigid axle]

Ghostface found dead

[grand night]

it still is kinda good if u use with blight serum and sprint burst or sm

[analog pewter]

so quick question has anyone else encountered this weird occurrence with ghoul. after using his final leap, grab attack or leap vault he starts going slower than survivors, my guess is that it makes him go at the same speed he's at when charging kagune leap

[warped coral]

Sooooooooo

How goes the PTB? Have the devs fixed 5 issues only to add 25 more bugs?

[crisp crypt]

isnt this normal? He's crazy with mobility so isnt this just how he can't just immedietly get a down

[grand night]

im pretty sure it is unless im thinking about sm else

[warped coral]

That is suppose to be normal, if he were go back to completely normal speed, that would be fucking unreal

[crisp crypt]

yeah because he already has an insta-injure from the grab so he would almost always get insta downs and survivors would never be able to run

[void pasture]

Resetting a trap didn’t get rid of the bloodlust nor did picking one up, I fear I wasn’t paying attention when setting traps tho but I’ll test again to verify

[grand night]

why did someone just say "dont throw bricks at glass houses or something- aristotle

i literally just escaped through hatch

[dusty edge]

@jade plover 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[trail halo]

i think syringe is fine now tbh

[quiet flame]

as a killer main, cap

[void pasture]

Trapper seems to keep the bloodlust even when using traps so maybe they coded it to only go away for specific killer powers

that or it’s a bug and not working as intended

either way it still doesn’t help him, he’s still absolute garbage against half competent players

I still don’t see why trapper even needs a 2 trap carry limit

[analog pewter]

i mean that when his power ends he's permanently stuck at 3.68 m/s until he uses his power again and cancels it before using the final leap. its weird

[crisp crypt]

oh..yeah thats not normal

[void pasture]

Like genuinely they should just make him start with max traps carried and have no limit to how many he can hold

[grave goblet]

is it just me who absolutely loves the new furtive chase? i didn't play the ptb yet but just imagining on having a 10 metern terror radius paired up with monitor & abuse on my nemesis is kinda overkill

[strong viper]

trapper sack does this (though you can't pick them back up)

[void pasture]

Right but I meant as a base kit buff

and without the not being able to pick back up bullshit lol

[tawny sable]

When is next 2v8

[fathom turret]

Is the new ptb already out or not yet?

[strong viper]

this channel wouldn't be open if it wasn't out so yeah it's out

[void pasture]

The reason a lot of people dotn like it isn’t because it’s necessarily bad but because it was fine as it was before and a completely unnecessary change

[void pasture]

That’s actually not true lol

This channel’s been open for a while now

[jaunty tundra]

If Beast of Prey works on unique hooks, you should get undetectable. Pair that on Hillbilly with Muffler and BBQ, and you have a funny setup

[strong viper]

ah I don't talk in this sever much lel so I didn't know

[void pasture]

You’re good

[fathom bane]

LMFAO sniper pyramid head with basically no TR is fun

[grave goblet]

as a nemesis main, who has used it for the past few months, it wasn't that good, like it might just be me but that 10% for 10 seconds was only for helping me speed up the boring walking that you gotta do across the map as a non-mobility killer. I barely got any value out of the undetectable either, no jumpscares, nothing like that. But just having a flat buff for hooking the obsession was a called change and i like it.

[sly marsh]

they're calling it the worst ptb yet

[gray night]

Oh Jesus hope not

Like these changes just have to come to the game

Get all these weirdos that think you have to tunnel or run straight back to an unhook notification out of my killer que

[autumn mirage]

So many buffs to survivors.... and they cant even handle me playing wesker first match ever without 4 man DC lmaooo

[bleak quail]

me
that's what I was coming to say but you beat me to it

[autumn mirage]

Knight on a nutshell

[bleak quail]

I haven't been able to break out of it though

[grave goblet]

someone gotta take the aggro, so if it's not the unhooker or another teammate, it's gonna be you.

[obtuse basin]

i don’t any of my stuff from my account on the ptb is there any reason for this 😔

[verbal widget]

is anyone else having trouble getting into matchs?

[red pebble]

Anyone tries the skull merchant changes yet?

[turbid sable]

It’s very minimal

[young forum]

why is ghoul nurse speed on ptb?

[autumn mirage]

is basic QoL changes and they sneak a nerf to her undetectable.... and this is supposed to be the alternative to the rework

devs cant fuck off for wanting to pass this instead of a rework

[turbid sable]

Honestly this is so bad. I wouldn’t usually say this but whoever made these decisions needs to be fired immediately. They are single handedly ruining the game.

[marble osprey]

Dcing in ptb bro

[autumn mirage]

Agree this keeps happening again and again the fact they wanna quit the rework and put this nothing burger changes as alternative to rework

if you cannot make a rework AT LEAST MAKE SIGNIFICANT BUFFS for god sake she is still trapper level

[young forum]

I was bloodlust 3 on ptb with ghoul and was slower than the survivor still

[autumn mirage]

4 man DC when they realize i was Wesker is so sad

[young forum]

why is ghoul nurse speed anyone know?

[turbid sable]

Is ghoul 4.2 now or something?

[marble osprey]

Wesker isnt even super good tbh

[autumn mirage]

and was my first match ever as him

[marble osprey]

💀 ☠️ 💀 ☠️ 💀

[autumn mirage]

they get an overtuned buff on PTB and they cant even play

[young forum]

yes something like that

and it's nowhere in patch notes. they are suuper slow for some reason

like I was getting looped around autohaven pickup truck and losing chase

they were breaking chase directly in my face on a loop

might be even slower than 4.2 actually

felt like nurse speed like 3.8

[turbid sable]

I hate ghoul players and ghoul so this is honestly really funny

[winged kraken]

its a bug with cancelling power

[young forum]

so it IS a bug

well that was obvious, just not sure if they tried to sneak a ghoul nerf in there that's not in the patch notes

[young forum]

so if you cancel a leap you become 4.2 for the rest of the trial?

[winged kraken]

idk the specifics but kinda?

[tidal vessel]

This ptb update has confirmed that BHVR hates killers

[autumn mirage]

just checked and you are basicly 4.2 the whole trial

cannot ever catch up on any loop

[autumn mirage]

well ig will switch to blight and nurse then

[red pebble]

Thought it would be negligible effects tbh

[verbal lance]

I don't think they hate killers, I just don't think they play killer enough to understand why tunneling and slugging happen, nor do they grasp the unintended consequences of the proposed changes. They look at stats and think that tells the whole story, making changes that they think will swing the stats one way or the other, but don't consider if the game will be fun for killer after.

On the dev stream they showed the one dev having trouble catching up to a bot Meg. And these are the people making these decisions. It's crazy.

[tidal vessel]

they should do what RESPAWN did with Apex Legends
make their devs actually play the game
like at least 5 matches of surv and 5 of killer

this is why Apex has mostly good balancing

[verbal lance]

Each person in charge of game design must play 8 hours in a given week, alternating roles each week.

Like can we not do that?

[fierce creek]

🤦‍♂️

do you consider if the game is fun for the average survivor?

[verbal lance]

What about anything I've said suggests that I don't?

[fierce creek]

because this changes are mad to make the survivor experience better and you are clearly against them

[verbal lance]

I'm not against them because they make the survivor experience better.

[fierce creek]

You do think this change is bad because it afects the killer experience tho

[verbal lance]

Yes.

[fierce creek]

even tho it might be a net positive overall if it makes survivor experience much better

[verbal lance]

It widens the gap between solos and SWFs, as well as between high-tier killers and low-tier killers.

Making all killers 3.6 would also make the survivor experience better. Just because it makes the survivor experience better does not mean it's automatically good, what a silly take.

[fierce creek]

so the problem I agree is between solos and swfs, and high vs low tiers, but you are mad at a change targeting the most toxic and frustrating playstyles in the game?

[verbal lance]

When did I ever say I was mad

[fierce creek]

the biggest reasons people quit this game

mad = not happy

[verbal lance]

No, mad does not mean not happy.

You keep assuming things about me or my opinion, please stop doing that.

[fierce creek]

I am not assuming anything

[verbal lance]

You have twice now.

[fierce creek]

if I ask you a question is not an assumption

[verbal lance]

I'm not against the devs making changes to reduce the impact of gameplay elements survivors find frustrating. I am against these specific changes because they are poorly thought out.

[fierce creek]

these changes are attacking the worst parts of the game

[verbal lance]

In a bad way.

[fierce creek]

parts that have been the main reason that people quit the game

in a bad way? what would be a good way to go about it

[verbal lance]

Holy hell man I'm not saying changes aren't needed, I'm saying these changes are bad.

[fierce creek]

?

I asked you what changes would you do instead

[verbal lance]

There are plenty of parts of the change that are okay, like giving survivors elusive on unhook. Then you have the aura reading the survivor gets, which will be abused by SWF for sure, that needs to go. They also removed stuff like the basekit BBQ killers had in the last update that was at least something. Instead we get free BP and a buff that half the roster can't use effectively.

[fierce creek]

I do not think killers need anything at all, just making survivors stronger for a while after an unhook is plenty

[verbal lance]

One of the best ideas I have heard to combat tunneling was essentially a type of shared hook state, but it was more detailed than that and not just "you can't kill until 9 hooks." I would have to look it up again.

[fierce creek]

abused in swf is a funny way of saying, survivors will have teamwork between them

[verbal lance]

No, abused in SWF = people using comms will get insane value, those not using comms will barely get any benefit.

E.g. widening the gap between solo and SWF. Not good for balance.

[fierce creek]

ofc, just like low tiers vs strong killers

[verbal lance]

Right. Low tiers will be insanely punished by these changes, high tiers will barely notice.

[fierce creek]

but that is not rly a survivor vs killer's problem

[verbal lance]

It's a game health and balance problem.

[fierce creek]

ofc, game and health that needs to be addressed completely separately from tunneling and slugging issues

2 completly different issues

[verbal lance]

If addressing tunneling and slugging means making the game a lot more unhealthy, no, not really.

[fierce creek]

how does it make the game a lot more unhealthy if its remove extremely unfun problems from the game

[verbal lance]

I have already explained that.

[fierce creek]

problems that haven been complainned about for YEARS

no, you didnt explain that, you said it widened this or that, when in reality it dosent

[verbal lance]

It's cold in your house. You're upset that it's cold in your house. I set your couch on fire. Wait, why are you complaining? Your house isn't cold anymore.

You can solve one problem and create another one.

"It fixes tunneling and slugging" does not mean it's good. Shutting down the servers would also do that.

[vale tartan]

This ptb is really bad.

[pine aspen]

Watching the new Zmpixie video and oh my god how did they add like 7 Knight bugs

[fierce creek]

fixing tunneling and slugging means its good.

[verbal lance]

Now I'm pretty sure you're just trolling.

[fierce creek]

shutting down the server would also fix power inbalance

[vale tartan]

I play both roles and the survivors got mega buffed and this exhaust stupid repeat is so dumb. They ruined the furtive chase perk as well. It's dog shit. Leave the undetectable on there and remove the speed that's it. And it will be fine.

[fierce creek]

trolling because you cant understand that this changes didnt do jack shit to make the killer power inbalance even worse?

because it didnt

you could already easily avoid tunneles from awful killers

[verbal lance]

It did. Nurse won't notice these changes at all. Blight barely will. Meanwhile, Trapper can't set 3 traps around basement without self unhook procing.

[fierce creek]

🤣 have you played the ptb? clearly not since the self unhook is even better for basement trapper now

[vale tartan]

Do.you think the devs will read our discussion about the ptb in this channel?

[verbal lance]

Yes

[fierce creek]

thank god they wont

[verbal lance]

I have not had faith in the devs to listen to the community for years now.

[fierce creek]

a lot of the killer playerbase would only be happy if the game had a 80% average kill rate

63 is not enough

[verbal lance]

I see we're making up stuff now, cool.

[fierce creek]

making what stuff?

killers have 63% average kill rate, that is factual

[coarse lotus]

Man i am telling you, they make the PTB live and i assure, 80% of us killers mains that dont play blight or nurse or someone below A tier will go extint

[verbal lance]

Not the part I was talking about.

[vale tartan]

Where can I leave my feedback then cause this ptb so upsetting

Again I play both roles as well

[fierce creek]

so explain to me how are killers with a record high kill rate and still say the game is survivor sided

this has nothing to do with what we were talking about I am just curious about your opinion on it

[coarse lotus]

I am a killer main with a strange urge of playing survivor for a while..

[fierce creek]

you probably dont

[coarse lotus]

And im telling you, being a survivor in the PTB is disgustingly EASY..

[verbal lance]

The game is survivor sided if the survivors play well and coordinate, e.g. SWF. Which is what you get quite a bit in high MMR. The game favors SWF, then killers, then solos. The problem with this patch is it makes SWF considerably stronger and barely moves the needle on solo.

[coarse lotus]

It also makes anyone thats a killer below A tier want to commit self sacrificing to the entity

[fierce creek]

so the game is on average killer sided, only at high mmr swf does it become killer sided? I dont think it makes SWF considerably stronger as you say it does

[vale tartan]

I pla mostly solo and im telling you playing survivor is like cake walk for these past months. I like playing killer and I hate that what they doing to them with these new ptb changes. Ita fucking bad

[coarse lotus]

Agreed

I mean, im just Walking in the park as survivor if a killer isnt a nurse or blight

[verbal lance]

Then we will probably not agree on that point ever. So much of this patch is insanely abusable by SWFs, such as new syringes, aura read on unhook, etc.

[fierce creek]

good swf's already had all the info needed about the killers position all game, this will not rly change much

[coarse lotus]

Other than handhold and spoon feed survivors? Yeah, doesnt change much

[fierce creek]

pip down with your partisian takes

[verbal lance]

You're criticizing others for partisan takes.

[coarse lotus]

Fr

Like come on bro..

[fierce creek]

I am because I am taking official statistics into consideration and understand that the true problem is killer power inbalance and survivor party inbalance

[torn marsh]

Friendship with Hag ended, now Blight is my best friend

[fierce creek]

things that will not change at all with this changes

[verbal lance]

Which this patch exacerbates, not corrects.

[coarse lotus]

Friendship with ghostface ended (as much as it HURTS ME!) now blight is my pal

[fierce creek]

that is the point I disagree with, a point that dosent rly have sides at all

meanwhile he comes with some random survivors vs killer bullshit take

[torn marsh]

Truesee! I love you Ghost Face but you’re just not it right now 🥲

[coarse lotus]

I also want to point out that behaviour is validating the opinion on people that whoevers slugs for just a second its EVIL WITH MALICE!

[fierce creek]

120 secs is not 1 sec, can you not be any more bias?

[verbal lance]

That too, plus one of the definitions they gave for tunneling is "hooking the same survivor twice in a row" which is not always tunneling, and in fact frequently isn't.

[coarse lotus]

My brother in christ, they gave endurance off the record and elusive for 30 seconds.. for the unhooked.. im okay with the haste but HOLY FUCK

[fierce creek]

that has not thing to do with slugging?

[coarse lotus]

No but its part of the same PTB

[fierce creek]

can you be more coherent with your points

[verbal lance]

This patch is basically "if the survivors misplay we should make sure they can get out of the bad situation."

[fierce creek]

okay and? all those things are effective to fight slugging and tunneling

[fathom bane]

Skully buffs are nice honestly

[fierce creek]

they are good changes for what they wanna fight

[coarse lotus]

wanna fix slugging? How about you incentivice killers doing well without slugging, because most of the time it roots from being the only good strategy agaisnt survivors

[verbal lance]

You keep going to back to "it fixes tunneling and slugging = it's good," my dude it's so much more nuanced than that. See my couch analogy.

[coarse lotus]

Exactly

[fathom bane]

Theres also the issues of a certain killer who relies on slugging to be efficient

[fierce creek]

why would they want to incentivize killers when the killer role is already on average stronger, they dont want to give them more things

[verbal lance]

Setting your couch on fire will fix your house being cold, but there's a reason it might not be the best idea.

[coarse lotus]

Oni? Twins?

[fathom bane]

Who basically got hard nerfed due to the changes.
Oni

[fierce creek]

stupid analogy once again

[coarse lotus]

....

@verbal lance are you seein ts?

[verbal lance]

This is literally what you're saying. "It fixes tunneling and slugging = it's good." That does not follow logically at all.

[fierce creek]

what did I say exactly that was a lie?

killers are statistically the stronger role on average

[coarse lotus]

Its like saying, not allowing the killer to harm fixes slugging..

[verbal lance]

Turning off the servers fixes tunneling and slugging, therefore that would also be good.

[coarse lotus]

You Dense mf

[fierce creek]

no its not, that is a strawman and a half

[coarse lotus]

It doesnt WORK! But apparently solitude thinks it does

[verbal lance]

(Honestly turning off the servers would be good for me so I don't play so much DBD, but...)

[fierce creek]

I am dense because you cant comprehend reality?

and you keep strawmaning back and fort

[verbal lance]

No, you keep leaning on "it fixes tunneling and slugging therefore it's good." That's fallacious. It can still be bad.

[hardy lava]

is there a bug with ghoul that makes you move at nurse move speed on the ptb? just happened to me

[coarse lotus]

Exactly

[verbal lance]

I gave an example of why that logic doesn't work in the real world (couch analogy).

[coarse lotus]

Theres also one with knight and invisible walls and now apparently you cant use your minions to break stuff if you dont spam the button

[fierce creek]

no, it fixes tunneling and slugging, it's good because it does it well. You think it dosent do it well, I think it does

[coarse lotus]

Wheel of cheese.. how do you deal with this guy? Hes a broken record

[verbal lance]

It only does it well if you almost exclusively play survivor.

[hardy lava]

;-; thats insane

[fierce creek]

so are you lmao, you are not rly saying anything new

[sick tulip]

Rs we needed this update

[coarse lotus]

Seeing pixim sad about it broke me.. ;-;

[verbal lance]

TBH I need to walk away for other reasons anyway but yeah, it's like talking to a brick wall.

[coarse lotus]

I feel you bro..

[fierce creek]

that's exactly how I feel

[coarse lotus]

How survivor main are you? Because it seems you dont know anything about how the other side is doing..

[verbal lance]

I mean these changes are honestly probably fine for low-mid MMR, but high MMR (such as it is) is going to see a pretty big swing.

[fierce creek]

I am a survivor main but I do play a lot of killer, but I base my opinions mostly on data

[coarse lotus]

If a mechanic is like how it was in the stream its obviously gonna be abusable

[verbal lance]

What data?

[coarse lotus]

I believe its the same data behaviour is using for this changes

[verbal lance]

Oh the data that relies on flawed definitons of tunneling?

[fierce creek]

the data that killers have on average 63% kill rate

[coarse lotus]

Looks like it..

[coarse lotus]

YUP, Wheel of cheese.. LOOKS LIKE IT IS

[fierce creek]

?

[verbal lance]

You cannot look at that one singular data point in conjunction with this patch and conclude that it's a good patch, that's just silly.

[coarse lotus]

Real silly

[fierce creek]

kill rate has no room for flawed definitions you either kill or not

[daring vessel]

Has anyone else realized you can now use Overcome into Dead Hard with the new Syringe? It pairs extremely well with the Resurgence + Wicked combo too.

[robust pike]

kill rate is the rate they get a kill on at least one survivor iirc, not 3+

[coarse lotus]

Look wheel of cheese, i think we should cut our chances this guy obviously has made his mind and believes this changes will be healthy for the game even tho i assure you that if they become live the matchmaking will be long due to killers all around leaving..

[verbal lance]

They could make a change that makes it so that two survivors randomly die at the start of the match and two others escape. There. Escape rate is now 50%. Good patch, right?

[fierce creek]

no its not...

[coarse lotus]

Using his own logic.. yeah

[fierce creek]

🤦‍♂️ you cannot be for real

[verbal lance]

You cannot fully rely on statistics to balance, or weird crap like this happens.

[coarse lotus]

See how dumb you own logic sounds?

[fierce creek]

is that actually what you have to say?

[verbal lance]

That's not what I have to say, that's an extension of what you're saying.

[coarse lotus]

This is how we end up with PTBs like this

[fierce creek]

bro shut up you havent added anything to the conversation what so ever

[fierce creek]

it is not tho, at all

[coarse lotus]

Someones getting a little angry..

[verbal lance]

This is why the devs looking only at stats is so scary. Scarier than scratched mirror Meyers even.

[fierce creek]

I look at the game for what it is, tunneling is a serious issue that needs to be fixed

[coarse lotus]

Exactly bro

[robust pike]

bhvr does all the time and it usually ends up nerfing things that dont need nerfs, like certain addons (demo for example had his lifeguard thing nerfed since it had a high success rate, only bc it used to be one of his only good addons, like seriously his others are insanely bad)

[sick tulip]

crazy rage bait ngl

[fierce creek]

thats all

[coarse lotus]

I remember how the unknown became the harmless

[verbal lance]

Yes, it does need to be fixed. I agree with that part. This approach ain't it though.

[fierce creek]

I asked you what would you think its a better aproach you haven answered

[coarse lotus]

Its a really idiotic aproach that just.. makes one side get handhold and the other needs to overdo everything if it wants to achiece noticeable results

[coarse lotus]

Incentivice and reward killers that dont slug in place of just making the other side far, far stronger

[verbal lance]

I did. There is an idea I saw someone post awhile ago that was very good, but I will have to find it again. Plus I can't paste links here, but I could summarize it. The basic idea was every hook awards some number of points to the killer. First-time hooks are 2, other hooks are 1. Once the killer has enough points, they win.

[fierce creek]

making survivors slightly harder to chase for 30 secs after a hook is NOT a handhold anything lmao

[coarse lotus]

And i was just spitting facts and opinions of most people

[fierce creek]

incentives without proper nerfs to tunneling would not rly fix anything it would just move even more power to the killer role

[robust pike]

its insane that their approach to fixing it is by punishing killers, not fixing the root cause as to why slugging and tunneling often happens in the first place- its just more efficient and people want to win their games (generally, there is toxic slugging but yk)

a better approach would be to just, make regular hooks more effective than leaving a survivor on the ground for overall pressure- which would probably involve a flashlight and sabo nerf to some extent

[coarse lotus]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING!!

BUT THIS DENSE MF DOESNT GET IT!

[fierce creek]

What is the root cause as to why slugging and tunneling happen please tell me?

[coarse lotus]

I TOLD YOU 3 TIMES ALREADY!

[verbal lance]

The slugging changes are also problematic in the face of sabo, because slugging is the counter for sabo. There should be some exception that e.g. if a hook is sabo'd, it pauses all survivors' slugged resolve bars for as long as the hook is destroyed.

[void summit]

most effective strategy to win, no one likes losing

[fierce creek]

if its the most effective way of winning there's 2 ways of changing, buffing everything else, or nerfing those strats, why do you think buffing everything else would be the play?

[robust pike]

Tunneling a survivor out makes it a 3v1 and more favorable, slugging creates pressure without having to spend the time or risk of walking to hook when it could be sabo'd or they could wiggle out

[coarse lotus]

God.. are you just ragebaiting people because no one is so iliterate and dense..

[robust pike]

im not saying buffing everything else, youre looking at my argument and blowing it up to make it sound obscene to further your own arguments

[fathom bane]

Ok my thoughts on the slugging and tunneling changes as someone who hard tunnels (and gets hard tunneled and slugged)
It effectively nullifies killers using tunneling to get four kills (wastes 60s instead of 20). Of course, it doesn't stop tunneling to kill a specific person so. Yeah
Tldr: Anti-tunnel good
The slugging changes:
Not good at all.
Personally i think instead of unbreakable basekit the buff should be:
If a survivor has been downed and at maximum self recovery for at least 10 seconds, the following happens when they recover.
The slugged survivor gains 30 seconds of elusive and 3% haste if recovered by another survivor.
If ALL (living( survivors are in the dying state. Self recovery is possible, this persists for 5 seconds after a survivor exits the dying state.
||Also ignore solitude, he spends his time arguing with everyone on EVERY topic||

[fierce creek]

what are you even on about now

[verbal lance]

I really need to get going anyway, later all.

[coarse lotus]

Exactly.. especially on killers below A tier... If they dont slug then they would be lucky if they get 1 or 2k

[coarse lotus]

Good night man..

[fierce creek]

I am not blowing up anything, I am asking you why would buffing other things to make tunneling not be the most effective thing in the game would be the best thing to do

[void summit]

Yeah, any killer below A needs to either slug or tunnel to win most matches if they are facing a competent survivor team

[coarse lotus]

He has been doing that all this time..

[fierce creek]

no i have not 🤦‍♂️

[robust pike]

like im ALL for changing tunneling and slugging to be more fun overall, but it would need an entire gameplay loop rework- theyre trying to force the same gameplay loop but forcing a certain playstyle

[coarse lotus]

And thats the problem.

[fierce creek]

I agree, but that is a problem because killer power difference is so high, tunneling still needs to be changed

there needs to be ways for weaker killers to compete

[robust pike]

its just game design man, if you want players to do something you reward em for doing it- you dont punish them for not doing it,

like imagine if in minecraft you got punished for not enchanting before you went to the end by losing items- enchanting is enough of a benefit and reward by itself to cause the player to want to enchant, but not explicitly required to the point that foregoing enchants punishes you

(and before you say it yes ik dbd isnt minecraft, its an example)

[coarse lotus]

Its not worth it, i already told him that

[fierce creek]

game design goes both ways, the most popular game in the world is known for punishing players to disincentivize them from doing something

[robust pike]

the idea is to make hooking enough of a reward (pressure) to not require the other options, but allowing them to exist as a backup

toxic tunneling and slugging is an issue, but more revolves around community than actual gameplay- toxic players are always going to be toxic

[coarse lotus]

He says killers shound be rewardded..

[coarse lotus]

Exactly..

[fierce creek]

thats the thing tho, you think that players need to be rewarded not punished, I think punishing works just fine, popular games that often choose punish in similar situations do just fine

[coarse lotus]

You see what i mean brutus? This man is unreasonable

[fierce creek]

how am I not reasonable lmao

its a game design choice I dont think either choice is wrong, I just think that in this situation punishing is better

just because I disagree with you and defend my point, that dosent mean I am unreasonable

[robust pike]

Yes, but in an asymmetrical game the killers already got a "punishment" of being against a team of 4, their coordination is another issue entirely in solo que but the killer has to have enough of a "reward" for doing actions to make it balanced and require skill expression for BOTH sides for one to win

currently, survivors get a reward of aura read, no way to track besides line of sight, and a free hit (that they can use to take a hit) for the act of losing a chase

and what do killers get?
15 seconds of bloodlust if they dont double hook, which gets removed instantly upon using power, break actions, or getting into chase
For killers like ghostface or artist, they use their power so immediately that the bloodlust is genuinely useless, and the survivors they spend time chasing get more of a benefit from being hooked than he gets from hooking them.

Its just a bad balance that leans so insanely far to the survivors that its bordering insanity

I do agree the game needs balance but their current ideas for it are worse than the issues theyre trying to solve

additionally, there is very strong evidence that those in BHVR dont even play the game, for example:

When talking about slugging rates, Gideon's came up as the highest % slug rate of any map, and the team could not figure out why. The twitch chat immediately began spamming the word "Pallets!", and they simply said AND I QUOTE "Well, they must love pallets!"

[celest hare]

There's like 5 players in this ptb lmaoo

[fierce creek]

Yes it heavily leans into the survivors side because right now the game on average leans heavily into the killer side, so ofc they are trying to shift some power balance

[robust pike]

ANYONE who touches the game for even a few rounds knows that gideons has the most pallets and god pallets in the game, and picking under pallets is typically super unsafe due to the number of corners that a survivor could be around

[celest hare]

Delete Gideon

[void summit]

please

[celest hare]

Such a stupid map just rework it or delete it lmfao

[robust pike]

How does the game currently lean heavily onto killer side? If its solo que then sure a little bit, but solo que should have better communication options and shouldnt dictate entire balance changes instead

[celest hare]

^ solo queue needs to be closer to SWF

[robust pike]

This alone would fix 90% of survivors complaints i swear

[celest hare]

Just needs to be no matter what, being against solo queue buffs that ONLY bring it closer to swf is fucking stupid

[fierce creek]

the game on average leans into the killer sided because soloq is the biggest party size in the game and the game needs to be balance arround most people not just the top %

[celest hare]

If SWF's are too powerful then survivor needs to be nerfed

[robust pike]

Then the obvious fix is to increase communication, not to make entire balance changes based on the weakest group

[celest hare]

I can't wait for the seeing teammate builds while loading update

[fierce creek]

yes swf and soloq power level needs to be brought together, just like low tier killers to high tiers I fully agree and think its the main problem in this game

[celest hare]

Basekit kindred without the killer's aura should happen

[fierce creek]

but that dosent rly affect this anti tunnel and slug changes

imo

[celest hare]

I was thinking if the anti slug is strong enough basekit old deerstalker might be cool

[robust pike]

Also in the survey they took for "Why people uninstall the game", 2 of the options were directly survivor related issues, "Killers tunneling" "Being Slugged too often". But there was absolutely none for killer related issues, and if you wanted to submit your issues as a killer you had to fill out a specific "Other" prompt, which likely wasnt even read and was just thrown into the graph as an "Other" bar

(The other reasons for uninstall were typical things like preformance, unmet expectations, etc- the team just threw in survivor issues but not killer issues)

[undone tartan]

Real as shit I've had too many games where I'm left on first hook to reach second phase just for my teammate to unhook me right in front of the killer and then get tunneled out

[celest hare]

They really did that?? People didn't exaggerate? OMFG bhvr bhvr bhvr

[celest hare]

Ugh tutorials and shit need to happen players shouldn't be so stupid

[coarse lotus]

You see the problem me and wheel of cheese had with this guy? brutus, this guy is.. oh hoho, my god.. like talking to a brick wall.. im not gonna lose braincells trying to convince an obviously dense guy.. good luck on that, and have a gn

[celest hare]

Never had the issue of constantly dealing with stupid teammates in Identity V

[fierce creek]

😐

bro is my number one opp or what

[robust pike]

I disagree, swfs often have an incredibly low slug and tunnel rate since theyre able to communicate their location and if theyre going to go down- allowing for a nearby teammate to run over for a possible save and or body block, or to heal if they get slugged

[coarse lotus]

They need to revamp the tutorials in place of handhold bad survivors..

[undone tartan]

Yeah nobody's gonna learn shit from that outdated tutorial that barely covers any of the game mechanics 😭

[coarse lotus]

Fr

[robust pike]

nah man we agree that the game needs balance and about what it should look like, just differing opinions on how to get there- wheel isnt an enemy, just someone with different ideas

[coarse lotus]

Wheel isnt, i mean this guy solitude.. how did you even got to agree with him? He has been saying its good the changes the PTB did.. he has not being like that with us

You know what.. forget it

[undone tartan]

Another major issue is a good chunk of people in the community can't address the real issues on one side or the other,and instead of trying to get to the core issues of the game they just shout "Dbd is (insert role) sided" and turn it into an us vs them type of thing when it really isn't

[robust pike]

Also one of my main complaints with this ptb- they delayed an entire LISENCED chapter for 2 additional months for this. And it introduces more bugs than it fixes too

[coarse lotus]

I swear if they delayed someone like jason vorges for this HORRIBLE PTB im gonna lose it

[dusty edge]

@dusky herald 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[robust pike]

Me and solitude both agree that the game needs to be more skill expressive and to close the gap between SWF and solo que, which is a majority of what causes slugging and tunneling

I also think power creep needs to be addressed, bc demogorgon hasnt had any major changes besides addon nerfs and some minor adjustments for years and he's kinda just, outclassed by everything- and now that meyers' dash is LITERALLY just the pigs but better, they need to re-examine the pig as well

[fierce creek]

I agree, but the argument would be that this changes unproportionally affect swfs much more than soloqs, to a rate that it would be widening the gap much more, and I just dont think that is is, swfs will be able to take more out of it ofc, but that comes with the nature of communication, the same way I do not think it widens the game from C to S tiers all that much. That being said I do not think that any changes are effective until they fix mmr for actual decent data

[undone tartan]

As well as the gap between higher tier and lower tier killers too right? I don't like ranking killers in dbd as it's subjective but let's not pretend like a game as kreuger or hag is even in the same universe as a game on ghoul or nurse

[fierce creek]

but I think tunneling and slugging are such a big issue to justify changes like this considering I dont think that it widens any gap already existent between in role powers.

[robust pike]

I agree with the fact that they need to fix mmr BADLY, my main concerns as a killer dont stem from solo que games but from swf games, where its usually a 60/40 in their favor from my experience, and swfs tend to weaponize everything they can (endurance especially) for their favor-

as an example, 10 sec of free aura read on unhook + no scratch marks or sounds and a hidden aura for 30 sec could allow a free flashlight / pallet / locker save should your rescuer go down, and the killer will have genuinely no way of knowing or countering the save

[robust pike]

this isnt hypotheical either, ive had some people do this specific thing to me in the ptb, but i cant leave em slugged either since they can just get up so its a lose lose scenario, and the only thing id done as a killer was win a chase

also 20m anticamp is excessive, on maps like RPD especially since 20m can encompass multiple floors and a majority of the map

like i tested this right

20 meters from the middle hook on rpd is almost enough to make it to the door to the stairs near the helipad

from the middle hook all the way to that door would trigger anticamp on both floors

I think some of the changes are fine in a vaccuum, like the idea of being able to get up if the killer was slugging in a toxic way, but their criteria for "toxic" is much too low, especially for certain killers like twins who get downs relatively far from where they can actually pick up, giving them free permanent progress to being able to stand up for the rest of the match

[fierce creek]

That's the things, things like that can be an issue, but I feel like they can be fixed with minor adjustments to not make them abusable to that extent, that being said, that's what supposedly test servers are for

things need to be adjusted, and changed, but thats why we need to give them propper feedback

[robust pike]

yee no fs, a lot of the ideas sound good on paper but their current execution is horrendous, especially for lower tier killers

[fierce creek]

not just completely go balistic and cry about the whole patch

players on every game are always much much more creative than any dev team, thats why propper feedback is important

[robust pike]

yeah, but bhvr has been proven to cherry pick survivors over killers, and they doubled down on it with the stream / some of these changes in this ptb, and so killer mains are pretty frustrated in general and the ptb is not helping ease tensions

[paper dock]

this, not that they cant be creative, obviously they can, but they'll never match the output of hundreds of thousands if not millions of players

just not possible for any team

[robust pike]

especially folks who main low tier killers like myself, i main trapper and hag and just havent even had but maybe like 5 games this week after the pallet update, i just dont have enough traps to stop those loops and survivors run perks to loop killers like blight- so what is an m1 killer supposed to even do about it

[fierce creek]

this is the hard part of the conversation imo

bhvr is pretty set to change the power balance between roles on average a bit in favour of survivors. Something I agree with

considering most people are playing meta on both sides

[robust pike]

yeah... they even said theyd be fixing killer issues in the 2 month lisence delay, which i interpreted as giving love to weaker killers, not blanket nerfing all killers (which is to the detriment of my favs)

[fierce creek]

the average public game goes mostly in favour of killers

and they clearly wanna change that a bit

the problem is as long as weak killers are soooooooooooooooooo much weaker than strong killers

every killer as a role nerf, will feel like a slap

for weaker killer players

[robust pike]

i agree the gap between solo and swf needs to be closed, but i think trying communication updates shouldve been the first choice before making these huge adjustments tbf

[fierce creek]

the thing people dont realise is that strong killers are VERY popular

[robust pike]

like the babysitter rework is insanely op for swfs, against stealth killers specifically- 30 secs of aura read if you unhook someone is ridiculous

[fierce creek]

meanwhile swfs are the minority

[robust pike]

strong killers are popular in the same way strong perks are popular, but if everyone was a strong killer the game would die since every game would be the same

this update especially kinda forces more pressure for killer mains to choose those killers if they want to win, regardless of if they are their preferred killers

as somoene who enjoys low tier killers especially i can tell you i havent been having fun at all, and i dont tunnel or slug but the pallet density update has made all my favs even worse than they were before

[fierce creek]

but then again we go back to the same thing, power killer inbalance is what causes those feelings

[verbal lance]

This is all basically what I was saying. This patch widens the gap between solo and SWF, and also punishes lower-tier killers while not really doing much to higher-tier killers. I'm not sure why that was apparently so controversial.

[fierce creek]

an issue that is completely different from tunneling being by far the most effective strategy in the game

[robust pike]

i think a fair assumption would be that killers need a power gap closed and solo que needs a gap with swfs closed, but i think this update drives that gap furter on both sides which is why im opposed to it

[verbal lance]

The natural outcome will be that more people play higher-tier killers, and the game becomes stale for everyone.

[robust pike]

like solo que def benefits from the update but not nearly as much as swfs will, and the gap between weak and strong killer just grows every day

[fierce creek]

that's where we disagree, I dont think this changes change the gap that much but I would need to look at actual data, until then its all speculation

[verbal lance]

The data coming out of the PTB will probably not be great though because there is no MMR-based matchmaking.

[fierce creek]

with the base game shit mmr the data is already so ass as well

[verbal lance]

Agreed.

[fierce creek]

this game balance will never feel good without a decent mmr system

[verbal lance]

Something something something hockey.

[fierce creek]

the root of all problems

[verbal lance]

It may be rose-colored glasses but I honestly think the old rank-based matchmaking was better for the way the game works.

It had its share of problems but I think it made more fun matches.

[fierce creek]

🤷‍♀️ considering I hit rank 1 with barely 100 hours back then and was actually pure ass

[verbal lance]

Yeah but you can hit high MMR in just a few games because of how glicko works (which is not bad, by the way).

Plus the soft cap being so low.

At least you would get matched with people who played about the same number of hours as you (within the month), the current system seems bipolar between "you get a 4-stack today" and "how about some 10-hour players"

[fierce creek]

I have little hop for this game to be more than it is. To many things are needed to change, and they are not rly changing them fast enough where it matters

reworks/buffs on weaker killers take a while, expecially if it's to be done properly

and the easy changes that would be base kit aura perks to weaken the gap between soloq and swf they refuse to implement

so we will just be going ping pong from one side to the other like we have been for 8 years

Meanwhile who rly is winning are blight and nurse mains

[verbal lance]

The fact that 1k+ winstreaks are possible is great evidence that MMR is bad.

As a nurse main who enjoys playing most of the roster, I would be fine with her getting nerfed along with e.g. blight and spirit if it means we can have nice things.

I'd rather the whole roster be viable than my main remain S tier.

The problem with this patch is that nurse and blight will still be fine, but e.g. trapper is basically dead.

[fierce creek]

🤐

[verbal lance]

That is not the direction we should be going.

I really enjoy clown for example, he's probably my second favorite.

[fierce creek]

nothing affects blight or nurse in this game, but it affects some high A tiers

blight and nurse just need propper reworks, until then they are and will always be public game gods

[verbal lance]

On another note, one specific criticism I have of these changes is that the slugging changes don't take into account how it's necessary sometimes. If you go against a sabo squad, you don't really have much of a choice. Slugging is the counter to sabo, so there needs to be some exceptions in place for when hooks get sabo'd.

[fierce creek]

sabo is not an effective way of winning the game, its just a bully strat

[verbal lance]

But we are talking about fun, right? That's the point of the patch?

Make it hard to do things survivors find unfun?

[fierce creek]

the difference is slugging and tunneling are extremely unfun like sabo, but sabo is not an effective way to win the game, tunnelign and slugging are

[verbal lance]

So if that is the case, let's make it so that sabo plus this patch isn't excessively unfun for killer. If it's not an effective way to win, there is no harm in adding exceptions for when sabo is in play.

[fierce creek]

can you imagine a world where sabo is the most effective strategy survivors have to play the game?

[verbal lance]

This patch helps me imagine that, yes. It pushes the needle in that direction.

[fierce creek]

that's what tunneling is rn

[verbal lance]

I play survivor too, I know that it's not fun.

Being tunneled I mean, not survivor in general.

I guess I should clarify, sometimes it actually is fun. If I'm actually able to loop well then it can be very fun, because I'm wasting the killer's time. Had a match like that yesterday, in fact.

We got a 3-out because the killer hard committed to me but couldn't down fast enough.

[fierce creek]

tunneling can be fun, if you massively out skill the killer, or have enough team coordination with hit tanking to counter it

[verbal lance]

Anyway, the point I'm making about sabo is that if one strat is the counter to another strat, you can't nerf one without buffing the other unless you take that into account.

[fierce creek]

like if the killer is ass and I can go on 5 min chases, hell ye keep trying to chase me

but that is not rly a thing on 2 equally skilled players

[fierce creek]

sure, but we will have to see if sabo will be effective enough after that and nerf it if it is

thats how flowing metas work

we can only predict so accurately and so far.

[verbal lance]

But the devs can predict something and at least try to consider it in advance instead of sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it couldn't be a problem.

"Resolve bar is paused while any hook is sabo'd" is not an excessive ask, and may even discourage people from playing for sabo.

[fierce creek]

I would say ptb is ptb for a reason, and people seem to think that is not a valid thing to say

[verbal lance]

If the point of this patch is to prevent "bad" slugging, and slugging is what you have to do to counter sabo, I don't see how preventatively making sure the changes don't come into play when sabo is used would be bad.

People remember history, that's why.

[fierce creek]

but it is. if people give proper feedback instead of all the doom posting and crying for stupid shit maybe it will be more effectively

[verbal lance]

For any other company, yes, absolutely. BHVR has a history of pushing stuff through, or tweaking a few numbers and saying "look, we listened," while ignoring the actual meat of the objections.

[tawny sable]

With how hard devs are trying to kill tunnelling I'm surprised they havent tried giving unhooked survivors invisibility and intangibility yet

[fierce creek]

if I was a dev with most things that people say about this game's balance are so insanely stupid I wouldn't listen either

[verbal lance]

Look at the Clown patch, nobody liked it. They tweaked a few numbers and called it good. It was still very bad.

[fierce creek]

profile name proving my point

[tawny sable]

I'm not saying it seriously

[verbal lance]

People doompost because the PTB has historically been "this is what is being released, let us know any issues so we can fix them" not "we are experimenting with an idea, it may not make it to live." The latter of which has only happened like twice.

[humble glacier]

guys i am new to dbd can you tell me what is PTB ? may be full form

[worthy stone]

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/358-ptbs

[tawny sable]

Public Test Beta, you get to try out p much everything in the game for free including new changes

[verbal lance]

Public Test Build*

[fierce creek]

well is clearly wasent the last one

[pine aspen]

Its basically a sandbox for new potential changes that everyone can try out for a little while for feedback

[verbal lance]

That was one of the two exceptions, the other being finisher mori.

[humble glacier]

okay thanks a lot answering

[tawny sable]

Why do people act like last PTB didn't still lead to a massive nerf to killer on nearly half the maps in the game

[dusty edge]

@dusky herald 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[humble glacier]

is new patch getting live in game today?

[tawny sable]

No it's locked to PTB for now

And hopefully forever 😭

[verbal lance]

It's usually 3 weeks after PTB that it's released. Hopefully not this one, though.

[humble glacier]

Ohhhh

[fierce creek]

"massive nerf"

[humble glacier]

what is the sequence of patches and pattern ofpatches ?

[tawny sable]

Interesting question, how strong should all killers be in a perfect world?

[celest hare]

My main issue with the ptb is resurgence wicked and breakdown

[fierce creek]

"killers hit all time high 63% kill rate" 🤣

[verbal lance]

It was a nerf to every M1 killer basically, meanwhile (again) nurse doesn't GAF about it.

[tawny sable]

That number includes ALL players btw

Including the vast majority that play the game once and never again

[verbal lance]

I assume we are talking about pallet density "QOL" update.

[fierce creek]

so you wanna choose and pick who do you balance around? alright pick one ill pick the other

[tawny sable]

The one and only

[verbal lance]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what you're asking.

[tawny sable]

Yall are really good at coming up with new meanings for old words

[fierce creek]

🤣

[fierce creek]

damn dbd must be hitting record high new players that people that play the game only once skew the data so much

but new players only play one role ofc

[tawny sable]

Five Nights At Freddy's and The Walking Dead literally just dropped

[humble glacier]

like how patches number system releases for eg in genshin after every 0.8 update a new major patch come . Before that from .0 to .8 patches releases

[tawny sable]

And when you don't know what gens are yeah, bad killers are gonna be better at the clear objective

[fierce creek]

"litteraly" 😳

[celest hare]

If endurance body blocking could somehow vanish I think the anti slugging and tunnelling is actually fine

Changes are needed obviously but it's not crazy

[verbal lance]

Generally version numbers are major.minor.patch but DBD doesn't exactly need to follow semver rules, so basically the version numbers represent "whatever the heck the devs think about the patch."

[tawny sable]

Speaking of skewed statistics, how are the changes in this PTB? I havent had a chance to dive in myself yet

[fierce creek]

brodda, last ptb people complained about no hitbox would be too much and make it easier to body block (delusions) thats why they changed it

[humble glacier]

thanks understood

[tawny sable]

Its cuz no collision made it easier to bodyblock

[fierce creek]

🤣

I cant

[humble glacier]

How to join PTB in game can everyone join it?

[twilit gazelle]

They could change endurance to 5 seconds, but give 50% haste, run Bich run!

[celest hare]

I think the no collision is kinda goofy in general, body blocking survivors off hook basically just happens out of basement and to prevent survivors from escaping

😭

[verbal lance]

It made it easier to hit tank, yeah. There are solutions to that but of course BHVR couldn't implement those so I guess just throw out the whole idea.

[celest hare]

Maybe no collision for 10s would be fine idfk

[tawny sable]

Just make m1s phase through survivors off a fresh hook atp

[verbal lance]

Nah you still need to be able to hit them, but making survivors with no collision unable to take damage from an attack while very close to another survivor would fix it.

Your hit would ignore them and hit the other person.

But if they are off on their own, then you should be able to hit them.

[celest hare]

If a no collision survivor is touching another survivor and the killer swings and it would hit the other survivor with collision it should hit them, if not it should hit the one with no collision, how's that

[verbal lance]

If you have the game on Steam, then you can install the PTB, yes.

[tawny sable]

Im trying to come up with a reason to disagree but there's nothing

[humble glacier]

i have dbd on epic games

[verbal lance]

Yep that's basically what I was saying.

[celest hare]

Yeah sounds good

[tawny sable]

It's the kind of change nobody would have a good reason to hate

[verbal lance]

You cannot play the PTB on Epic as far as I know.

[tawny sable]

PTB is only available on steam

[humble glacier]

ohhhh

[tawny sable]

Speaking of, doesn't that kinda limit the information gathered from the PTB?

[humble glacier]

🫠

[verbal lance]

But I guess it's too hard to code or something. I dunno.

[celest hare]

How's elusive but just for 10s, but it does the no collision thing but how we talked about it

It's bhvr everything is so yeah I can see it being impossible of them lmfao

[fierce creek]

You rly dont understand what you are asking for

[tawny sable]

Honestly I love the elusive status effect, it just shouldn't be accompanied by 30 seconds of endurance

[verbal lance]

Yes but it's still probably statistically representative enough.

[fierce creek]

what if the killer wants to hit the guy that just got unhooked, and now he cant

[celest hare]

What about this but the haste and endurance all for 15 seconds

[tawny sable]

Too bad so sad

[celest hare]

He can?

What? He can lmao

[verbal lance]

Wait what? The killer might want to do something else? I thought you were against the killer being able to do certain things if survivors don't like it.

[celest hare]

Attacks should prioritise survivors with collision that's all

[fierce creek]

do you rly believe I think that?

[tawny sable]

Jokes aside the killer can respond in the same way they would to bodyblocking in reverse

[celest hare]

I think 15s of endurance, 10% haste, and elusive would be fine

Elusive with no collision but attacks prioritise survivors with collision, probably an impossible ask lmao

I mainly want to see resurgence break down and wicked nerfed

[verbal lance]

I think it's really weird that now suddenly you're taking the other side and considering what the poor killer might want to do, when I gave a solution for the no collision issue that would be better than scrapping the idea entirely.

[fierce creek]

I dont take either side

[celest hare]

And for the anti slug I think it's 100% fine?

[fierce creek]

I take the side of what I think should be, be it killer or survivor

[celest hare]

Same with the anti camp I think

[verbal lance]

You seem to take the opposite side of whatever anyone says just to argue.

[celest hare]

And I like that they buffed afk crows I reckon they could be buffed even a little more

[fierce creek]

No

I just think you are delusional if you think that no collision was easier to body block compared to collision

[verbal lance]

It literally was, because you could walk in the other survivor even when there wasn't a chokepoint to body block.

[tawny sable]

Its cuz you can walk inside the killer or survivor of choice and force them to either swing at you or not swing at all

[fierce creek]

collision you can litteraly just sit on a door and force the killer to hit you

[verbal lance]

Only if there is a door nearby.

[fierce creek]

just afk on a door or pallet and force the hit

[verbal lance]

With no collision you could do it anywhere.

[tawny sable]

That requires a door or pallet

And that the other survivor goes for that door or pallet

[fierce creek]

no you couldn't, you are literally slower than the killer, he could just ignore you since you still had collision with survivors

[tawny sable]

In the previous PTB removing collision removed it with both survivors and killers

[verbal lance]

This is not like an opinion thing dude, this was literally demonstrated on video by a bunch of people. If you don't think it was easier to bodyblock when there was no collision you haven't been paying attention.

[fierce creek]

😭

show me the video please

[tawny sable]

I hope they keep the elusive and bloodlust on fresh hook for now, then take more time to actually think out a proper anti-tunnel measure in the future. A bandaid fix will at least help the casual players not get discouraged early on

[verbal lance]

Let me find one. (Also the devs literally said this was the reason in the current patch notes.)

[fierce creek]

something we can agree on

everything will be a band aid fix until they fix mmr, killer power difference and role power difference

[tawny sable]

How do yall feel about the changes to Furtive Chase so far

[fierce creek]

the combo with friends until the end was rly strong for very strong high mobility killers so I think the nerf is fine

but weird since it wasn't rly meta

[vale tartan]

It sucks. I got it to work with nemesis but it's not good at all.

They can get rid of the speed but keep the undetectable

That's all they needed to do

[tawny sable]

Why is it even an obsession perk at this point

[verbal lance]

I see a lot of people discussing the particular clip I'm searching for but of course nobody links to it.

[fierce creek]

funny world

[verbal lance]

Not that I'd be able to post it here anyway since links get deleted. But yeah, it's in the dev notes about this PTB that they removed the no collision change because it made bodyblocking easier to do in all situations.

[fierce creek]

links get deleted?

[verbal lance]

Earlier I tried to link someone to the Steam documentation on verifying game files and a bot deleted it, yeah.

[vale tartan]

They still did body blocking aggressively. I was testing and it was just the same way.

[fierce creek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&list=RDdQw4w9WgXcQ&start_radio=1

[verbal lance]

I think generally the no collision change is fair if the survivors don't weaponize it, which is why I think if one survivor is "in" another due to no collision, just have the "no collision" survivor not be able to collide with attack hitboxes, so you hit the other survivor. That's in line with the spirit of the changes.

Huh, YouTube must be exempt.

[fierce creek]

🤔

[verbal lance]

Or it's related to roles.

[fierce creek]

is it? I think you just dont have perms since you are white role

[verbal lance]

I requested veteran like 12 hours ago, we'll see if anyone ever gets back to me.

[vale tartan]

Also losing bloodlust using any powers is really ass. I'm sorry I despise this ptb.

[celest hare]

Breakdown 50% increase, resurgence 50%, and wicked 50%?

[verbal lance]

Yeah. It's fair for some killers (blight doesn't really need it) but I guess screw Ghostface and Hag.

[celest hare]

(breakdown and resurgence nerfs) maybe wicked 33%

[verbal lance]

Could just make wicked and resurgence not stack, but then what would even be the point of running resurgence

[celest hare]

Also what if they did the basekit BBQ again? Think it seemed nice

[verbal lance]

I don't know why they removed basekit BBQ if the point is to not camp.

I get removing the basekit pop, but BBQ is probably one of the healthiest perks in the game.

[celest hare]

And if you don't wanna be seen, lockersss
Also what if they made slow entering lockers quicker

[vale tartan]

Three bloodlust lose even when I use unknown teleport and the uvx so no it's not worth it. They need to tweak it

[celest hare]

Yeah think it'd be great, basekit pop wasn't it

[verbal lance]

Ehhh Unknown teleport I kind of get. High mobility killers don't really need it. However, that leaves them with absolutely nothing except the bonus BP, so other buffs like BBQ would be nice.

It just seems so weird that they removed almost all of the incentives for killer and survivors get a page of stuff.

[celest hare]

Basekit old deerstalker for killers, basekit BBQ how they implemented it last ptb, elusive endurance haste only for 20s maybe and attacks that would hit survivors without collision first check if there's a survivor with collision it'd hit instead to prevent using it to body block/take hits at all. Think that'd be fantastic because endurance body blocking is fucking stupid. How would all this be

[verbal lance]

Yes to all except maybe basekit deerstalker, I'm torn on that because crawling away while the killer is busy and them losing you should be possible.

[celest hare]

Should it really be?

[verbal lance]

Yes

[celest hare]

Like with DBD being in a state where slugging isn't unhealthy, losing survivors that are slugged feels wrong

[verbal lance]

I am okay with leaving a survivor slugged means I am giving up the possibility of hooking them. That's part of the risk of that strategy.

[celest hare]

Maybe the radius for it could be decreased a lot

Yeah I see that would it be similar to basekit tenacity

Getting rid of like, what do you even call it, having to use your brain lol

[verbal lance]

If you decrease the radius too much then it doesn't matter because you'll hear them anyway.

By the time the radius for aura reveal would kick in.

[celest hare]

Maybe that's good actually for accessibility??

[verbal lance]

Yeah could be.

[celest hare]

But yeah idk lmao

[verbal lance]

But anyway yeah, agree on all but deerstalker.

[celest hare]

👍

[verbal lance]

And it's annoying because there are some changes in this PTB I like. Reverting Tenacity, showing the hooked resolve bar to other survivors is great.

But it's overshadowed by the anti tunnel stuff.

[celest hare]

Yeah definitely

[verbal lance]

I didn't realize how oppressive BT will be now, holy cow.

That will be weaponized for sure.

BT Wicked Resurgence DS meta.

[agile sparrow]

Wait did they decide to keep the void collection permanent?

[rancid tartan]

So how's everyone enjoying the ptb?

[verbal lance]

[quiet geyser]

Finally those damn Styptic and anti syringe are nerfed.

[maiden oyster]

Is the killer experience so far decent at least?

[quiet geyser]

Yeah same question. I haven't tried the ptb yet.

[verbal lance]

Anti-hems were buffed a ton, if you are good in chase.

They were only nerfed if you used them to e.g. heal yourself while working on a gen.

[snow tusk]

Man I love endgame chat when everyone is bullying a survivor ratting in a locker most of the endgame. The ZZZZZZZZZZ Vittorio makes me feel something

[fathom bane]

The thing is, we know they are capable of giving seperate/modified buffs to killers based on strength due to the first attempt at the anti tunnel

[verbal lance]

And how Elusive removes puking from Plague.

[tranquil mural]

feel like this ptb is pretty strong for survivors even when killers don't tunnel

[quiet geyser]

Always been like that

[tranquil mural]

rlly deters u from playing weak killers idk how i feel abt these changes

[verbal lance]

So much of the roster gets zero benefit from the singular advantage they get from unique hooks.

And it's not even that much of an advantage to begin with. A small amount of movement speed, yippee.

[tranquil mural]

exactly

and it runs out when in chase 😭 when haste is important

idk what they were thinking with that change but its pretty obviously just a flat killer nerf disguised as a balance change

worst part is that it doesnt affect the best killers who dont even need to camp hook or tunnel cuz of their mobility nurse blight kaneki and maybe even krasue wont be affected cuz they move from target to target anyway

bloodpoint bonus is cool but honestly not a fan of these changes

[verbal lance]

BP bonus is irrevelant from a balance perspective anyway.

New BT is busted. Babysitter is going to affect all killers, even nurse.

Wicked and Resurgence bullcrap. It's all so wild.

Babysitter is one of the dumbest things I've seen. In a patch designed to try to push you to chase the person who unhooked, let's give the unhooker 30 seconds of wallhacks on you.

At that point you might as well just tunnel through the anti-tunnel buffs.

[reef tartan]

might aswell remove killer as a whole and play against ais

[indigo stirrup]

Hello good friends, whats the queue time in the PTB EU time right now?

to mention, killer side

[carmine nimbus]

Skull Merchant feels so much better

[quartz tulip]

Anyone up for ptb kyf? I wanna try 2 killer builds and the changes

Killer qeue is like 30 minutes

[young forum]

upon further testing I have discovered that Ghoul IS definitely bugged / nerfed on PTB. You definitely get a permanent movement speed nerf after cancelling a leap sometimes. Not sure exactly what triggers it, but once it's triggered, you're stuck with the slow speed for the rest of the trial as far as I can tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opuf52L-MnI

[quaint helm]

i think im playing xenomorph wrong

any tips?

[astral cipher]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-lG_Ow-OAE6kavsj-HEhh489_e-rIkrB4A43oHJL2wI/edit?usp=drivesdk

[hazy kraken]

New BT sounds like it encourages killer to tunnel

If you don't tunnel and leave them on ground they'll pick up by themselves

[wary hamlet]

Holy fuck this ptb is so ass

To the surprise of absolutely no one

More baby handholding for survivors

[astral cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/fork-found-in-kitchen-fork-found-in-kitchen-edit-gif-14425799655335924125

[wary hamlet]

True

[crystal heart]

If even otz called it survivor sided then we know it's joever

[tranquil mural]

he did?

[crystal heart]

On stream , someone donated asking him to describe the PTB in 3 words , he said , convoluted ( over complicated ), (something else I can't remember ) and survivor-sided

[tranquil mural]

thats crazy otz is always saying the game is balanced for both sides but has issues on both but him saying its survivor sided tells alot

[hazy kraken]

They didn't just not reverted pallet density, they expanded it on fucking Hawkins man...

[twilit gazelle]

It's when you cancel power after walking for a bit, instead of immediately

[astral cipher]

?

[hazy kraken]

They've added pallets to lab

[crystal heart]

Added a pallet to portal room and I think changed one in a randomly generated room

[warped coral]

I love OTZ but we need to stop treating his word like it's law

[warped coral]

Shift tech... my beloved...

[hazy kraken]

They don't want to revert pallet density and made the survey about it just for shits and giggles

[fathom bane]

wait pinhead is avaliable on the PTB???

lmao

[hazy kraken]

Pallet on infinite loop tile, perfect

[fathom bane]

oh they did nerf him so, makes sense

[warped coral]

It can't be shift teched anymore

[crystal heart]

Never heard portal room be called infinite before

[warped coral]

He's talking about shift teching

[crystal heart]

I only play killer, what's that?

[warped coral]

Basically, chase only starts if you either
A) hit a survivor
Or
B) see a survivor run

If chase never starts, windows don't block

So by not holding shift and only vaulting when killers cannot start chase, you can get more loops on a window

And because chase never starts, bloodlust doesn't start

[crystal heart]

Ah yeah I knew that , I just didn't know the name of the tech I guess , that's just playing the loop smart lol

[warped coral]

Yeah, for any m1 killer who couldn't go fast or stop looks with traps, the window was an infinite

[warped coral]

The window has been moved closer to the door, making it less of an infinite, though, I suspect it'll still be a tough tile for most killers

[crystal heart]

Most likely 2 loops until they have to drop the pallet and then one more until they get hit most likely

Long ahh loop though

Unless the killer messes up , and it takes him even longer

[lofty hawk]

but there's so many...

[warped coral]

I honestly can't tell if it's a pallet density issue or a chained loop issue. Sometimes the maps have a shit ton of pallets but chaining them is damn near impossible

[lofty hawk]

idk just put autohaven on and go crazy

[warped coral]

On the other hand... you should have seen this chain I got on the knight map

From shack pallet, I had an L wall pallet, to a broken building with a semi safe pallet, to another L wall pallet which was facing a window into an OG jungle gym

I was against a Freddy, no joke, I was able to run from shack all the way to the other corner, and back without dropping a pallet just by leaving the loop randomly

I think the RNG really makes the difference, sometimes Haddonfield seems so killer sided and other times it seems relatively balanced

[fathom bane]

@simple stone is that you?

no it isn't. sad

[hazy kraken]

As long as it benefits survivors it stays, that's the rule of bhvr

[misty yew]

I had someone bleed out on the ptb and it counted as a unique hook, with the gold color. So does that mean slugging makes me a good killer? Getting mixed singles here bhvr.

[warped coral]

The fact that you manged to make a surv bleedout even if the PTB is literally trying to combat that is so beautiful

Is it out of being petty for dogwater changes or was it a 1 time thing?

[misty yew]

Oh it was deliberate. I'm a very petty person

[warped coral]

https://tenor.com/view/my-man-my-man-hd-my-man4k-gif-23532578

I was talking about the PTB changes with a friend and I wonder if the game would benefit better from a penalty for killer for tunneling but based off current gen progress/match time

[fathom bane]

LMAO just did box right after being unhooked and pinhead couldn't do shit

[hazy kraken]

And survivors still getting endurance in the endgame is diabolical

[simple stone]

whos me

[fathom bane]

there was a skull merchant

wasn't you

[simple stone]

was it someone named kachow

[fathom bane]

no

[simple stone]

dougthepug?

[fathom bane]

no

i didn't check the name, they were playing like shit

4k out

[alpine spindle]

does the aura reading from unhook trigger deerstalker?

[misty yew]

With all the healing buffs in the ptb, I've been playing plague to annoy the survivors.

[fathom bane]

technically yes, but no because the survivor is immune to aura reading

[celest hare]

HI TF

[echo dune]

What do survivor mains actually think of the update, ive seen some on twitter quiting some rejoicing

[trim halo]

this ptb so cooked

[true idol]

Damn... If Agent Smith isn't happy with an online test, we're cooked. 😂

[trim halo]

legit though they delayed a chapter for this

[warped coral]

We need less basekit perks and more punishment/rewards for the killer tunneling/not tunneling

[trim halo]

so that they can break bubba, knight and ghoul

[celest hare]

This update is very close to being great

Combined with what we've seen from the other ptb

[celest hare]

It's extremely cringy when people do this over any single DBD player...

[misty yew]

So honest question; how much percentage wise do you think is going to make it to live servers?

[valid tide]

Crossing my fingers that they let me Crawl and Recover with Tenacity again

[celest hare]

They are huh

[valid tide]

I think it's really fun and interesting from a survivor perspective - there's been a couple times now where the killer comes straight to where I was unhooked, starts chasing me, and then disengages because they realize I'm the one who just got unhooked

So already it's effective at discouraging tunneling just from my experience

But I do share the concerns of killer mains about how enjoyable and sustainable it'll be for the killer playerbase

I haven't had the opportunity to play killer yet, admittedly, but I imagine certain survivor playstyles are going to be pretty obnoxious with these changes

[valid tide]

Also I wasn't talking about the PTB - I was responding to the guy directly above me

[celest hare]

Oh why wouldn't they? That'd be really stupid of bhvr

[valid tide]

I think they will do it but there's a world where they don't for some reason

I miss my recovery crawl

[celest hare]

This is what I want out of the update, 20s of endurance haste and elusive, elusive grants seeing teammate auras and no collision but attacks prioritise players with collision so then no more endurance body blocking period, basekit bbq like the other ptb, resurgence 50% wicked 25% breakdown 50%, 60s for being on hook 70s is dumb, basekit weaker corrupt intervention, no idea about the bloodlust with hooks or syringe tbh lol but they're both bad. That's all I've got, think the update would be really good for the game with tweaks

Oh I forgot the basekit corrupt in there lmao it's a random thing I'm not sure would even be good but I think it might be good for the game too

[celest hare]

20s of seeing teammates maybe with a range, and maybe just like 5s of seeing the killer

[celest hare]

Another thing I'm not sure about is basekit weaker blood favour for downs maybe with a delay, it might be good to prevent basically abusing dying under pallet without completely killing it if they do a delay but yeah idfk

[tiny granite]

The tunneling and slugging update feels entirely unnecessary putting it from a perspective of someone who plays both sides it’s a strategy to catch up when survivors pop 3 gens the first minute of the match they have to catch up and make pressure somehow if they really want to extend this game’s life span then address things like gen rushing address that most killers are really under powered and need to do that to secure a 4k but most importantly they can’t look at it from one side only they have to look at both sides or this game will end up losing its other half to neglect

[misty yew]

I'm just now realizing this; the reason they changed syringes is because, according to them on the stream, is because it extended chases. That's not a theory, they themselves talked about it for roughly 1 and a half minutes. How in the name of God is resetting exhaustion not extending a chase?

Am I insane or something? Where's the logic in this?

[tiny granite]

That’s the joke there is none here

[native aspen]

Styptics were the larger offender for extending chases, since the effect of a syringe could be canceled by downing the survivor if they didnt play the chase well. Syringes also could be used outside of chase with any perks for time efficiency. The new version can only be used with exhaustion perks, only in chase, and extends it in a way differently than an entire health state was. There's a lot more restrictions on it.

Styptics could also be popped more reactionary rather than the new syringes removing exhaustion where you need to plan a little bit more ahead to have a spot where you can stop moving to start the interaction and also still have time and distance to use it

[misty yew]

Just saying this, M1 killers would probably prefer dealing with the extra health state than spirit burst into blood rush, into syringe for another sprint and blood. So it's another thing that higher tiers won't care about but screws over weaker killers.

[tiny granite]

Maybe they just shouldn’t put this update out?

[feral plover]

its amazing how often this happens where the new balance changes only negatively affect the lower tiers

[misty yew]

The conviction change can stay. Everything else; just scrap it. Its either fundamentally flawed, doesn't do what they intended, or requires too many number adjustments to actually work and find the sweet spot.

[tiny granite]

I mean the bar filling up depending on proximity makes sense but the range needs to stay as is

[feral plover]

20m is a bit far. maybe the killer shouldget a notif of some sort if theyre in the range?

[valid tide]

I do think that dying under pallet is still a fair and valid strategy - it requires a certain amount of gamesense from the player in chase to specifically go down under a pallet, requires a fair amount of coordination from teammates in order to pay off well, and forces the killer to address the possibility of nearby survivors

[tiny granite]

Maybe having us see the bar’s progression?

[misty yew]

Maybe some sort of LoS check? So your not screwed over chasing someone on the upper floor of RPD?

[celest hare]

That's why the delay might make it good

[low quarry]

Honestly they should abandon this anti tunneling/slugging project all together for now, there are a lot more concerning issues in the game atm

Such as bugs, killer strength gaps, perks, etc

[feral plover]

this was supposed to be the bug fix patch. but because the antislug/antitunnel ptb went so bad they had to do a second one

[tiny granite]

That plus an indicator with the current rage would actually make sense

[misty yew]

Remember when they said they were going to address killer pain points with this stuff? Yeah what happened to that?

[low quarry]

Yeah that kinda proves my point, and even then they still can't make a functional change to tunneling and slugging

They don't know what they're doing

[tiny granite]

I think that’s what a lot of people are screaming the devs just don’t listen

[valid tide]

From a pure game design perspective, yes - but BHVR wants to focus on a pain point that affects 4/5 players in nearly a third of all games

[low quarry]

Their numbers are flawed, you should see how they define tunneling lmao

[valid tide]

It's not the smartest thing ever per se but it's probably the easiest to try and address up front

[feral plover]

i want to know their metric for "tunneling?" how do they define it though simply match data?

[celest hare]

The delay wouldn't kill it but it would prevent it from what's it called, basically pausing the match lmao

[valid tide]

Yeah I know, trust that I think there's a lot of issues with the gameplay and balancing teams

[low quarry]

I personally encounter actual tunneling in my survivor games every 5 matches or so

[celest hare]

Slinger's radius can be 24m with an addon situationally, with monitor and 5 stacks of furtive, would he have a 6m TR?

[tiny granite]

Plus where are they getting their data from?????? It’s not like they’re sitting in on matches tl see the actual reason killers do what we do

[low quarry]

Yeah that's another issue lmao, they are very stingy about sharing where they get their statistics from

[valid tide]

They at least seem to understand that, at higher levels of gameplay, Tunneling is the most effective employable strategy

[low quarry]

Yeah but why is it the most effective?

[tiny granite]

But they want to remove it?????

[low quarry]

That's the thing they don't seem to grasp

[valid tide]

Because turning the match into a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 as soon as possible is a good idea

It's not that hard to grasp

[misty yew]

I think part of all the survivor sided changes comes from the possibility that they don't actually do anything to killer statistics. If 1 guy says gens go to fast but 4 say tunneling is a problem, that's going to look more important. So my guess is that they don't do any form of compensation for killer input to make it match survivor metrics

[low quarry]

Yeah but what makes a 3v1 easier than a 4v1?

[misty yew]

Basic math. Less possibility of a gen rush. Slower gens over all. Less attention division.

[feral plover]

attention division is the big one

[valid tide]

That was more or less my point earlier - BHVR is addressing this first because it's the thing that, statistically, The Most People are going to be complaining about

Whether or not it's the smart thing to address first or the easiest thing to address first falls by the wayside of 'oh, ~65% of our player are super pissed about this and have beeen for years'

[low quarry]

Exactly, and my point is that killers have a lot to tackle and if everyone is doing their objective it becomes more difficult. Now if we add in perks and strong maps that becomes even more difficult. Tunneling is a necessity sometimes, and not just for swfs

I don't get this ptb cause why are they giving survivors so many basekit perks when they already have some that can end the game in 5 minutes

That's why I'm suggesting that they scrap this tunneling stuff and just focus on perks and the killer gaps instead

[tiny granite]

Wanna know what the could do after each gen pop a mini corrupt could go off and tunneling wouldnt be so needed

[celest hare]

The benefits from 30s to 20s, and removing survivor collision while elusive and attacks prioritise survivors with collision to effectively kill basekit endurance body blocking, would be really good for the game imo, you can still tunnel if you need and everything but you can't just hard tunnel unless the survivors suck lmao

[misty yew]

Yeah. But I don't think making gens take long is the magical fix to this issue. Most gen progression perks are % base. And basic math says if something has a bigger base value, that % gets a lot stronger. So unless they change EVERY gen regression/progression perk in the game to accommodate, it likely will barley change

[low quarry]

That doesn't remove the issue of tunneling tho, or even make it less prevalent. It just takes more effort to do so now

[tiny granite]

They could make gens more engaging and tricky to do instead of just the same ones we’ve had for how many years now?

[celest hare]

Which is good, hard tunnelling is what needs addressing

[tiny granite]

But in that same breath they can’t tell which is which they just punish us

[misty yew]

That would probably be the best idea. Maybe you need to go find parts of a generator, or heck, a power switch to the gate after the gens are done?

[celest hare]

This update really is almost great though

[low quarry]

Yeah but they're still rewarding bad players for getting hooked, plus now they're able to play aggressively

[celest hare]

With what I said they can't

[tiny granite]

No it really isn’t

[celest hare]

Do you have problems with the anti slugging and camping?

[valid tide]

I think the idea is to make tunneling a strategy that doesn't have clear and obvious upsides over Not Tunneling

[tiny granite]

I have a problem with the whole system they’re trying to implement in regards to that yes

[celest hare]

Basekit old PTB BBQ would be really good

[valid tide]

By making it considerably more difficult to chase and down the person who just got unhooked, it lets the other survivors have a lot more time to do objectives and get bigger escapes

[celest hare]

Which is?

[feral plover]

the issue is the law of equivlant exchange not being upheld. Survivors are getting wholesale basekit changes - 30 secs of endurance, haste, the ability to see killer auras, etc, as their "comeback" mechanic. The killer's "comeback" mechanic is...bloodlust that 2/3 of the roster cant effectievly use. and some bloodpoints (next to nothing). I've picked up playing survivor in the past few months, my mmr aint great but is it really that awful to play survivor where they need so much basekit help?

[low quarry]

The issue is that this still doesn't make players want to tunnel that much less cause it's still objectively better to be in a 3v1 than 4v1. They'll definitely work towards that goal regardless, but again it'll take more effort on their end

If you're trying to end tunneling, then you need to better encourage spreading hooks, which they aren't doing

[valid tide]

It's why Kindred, Reassurance, and External Voice Comms have historically been so good against facecamping - if you make getting a hook on another survivor faster than just trying to guarantee another hook stage on the guy already hooked, then killers will just go find another survivor

[celest hare]

Reduce it to 20s, give killers old PTB basekit BBQ, kill using off hook endurance aggressively by making attacks priotitise survivors with collision, boom

[celest hare]

Plus more killer incentives that work roughly equally well for every killer like the basekit BBQ, idk what

[low quarry]

You're right but this isn't what they're doing lmfao

[celest hare]

Should be 💔

[valid tide]

Also tbf I bet that giving killers more bloodpoints for diversifying their hooks would probably be a push in the right direction

[low quarry]

Well if they won't listen to their community then your suggestion will never see the light sadly

[celest hare]

I don't know how people don't see this ptb as a huge step up from the last, it's what I expected, we will get something better than live eventually

[valid tide]

There's no need to gatekeep bloodpoints and giving people a Carrot instead of Constant Sticks would be a nice change of pace

[celest hare]

It's close to really just shitting on hard tunnelling while letting just tunnelling be fine

[feral plover]

baby carrot in exchange for yaoi paddle stick

[low quarry]

Because it's showing the huge divide in killer buffs and survivor buffs. Be honest, who do you think is benefiting the most in this patch and who do you think actually needs the most help at the current moment

[celest hare]

Yes but it's not far off from being good

They did the basekit BBQ last PTB, a lot of people want it back, you can assume they'll do it

[feral plover]

can we?

[low quarry]

I think the main issue isn't even the patch itself but the ignorance of the devs who are suggesting it

[celest hare]

Well you can't an insane amount lmao but people really want it

[valid tide]

I don't think anyone's like, hard disagreeing with you here Ace

Survivors are the ones benefiting from this PTB by a landslide, and the people who need the most help are the lower tier killers

[tiny granite]

This entire update is one giant handholding session for survivors and survivors only one buff for us doesnt make up for the 20 buffs survivors get on the regular

[celest hare]

Last PTB was 50 times worse with that, PTBs are for testing I'm not thinking it's the end of DBD over a PTB when in early DBD syringes actually insta-healed, BNP insta did gens etc lmao

[low quarry]

Nah ik lmao, I'm not upset at anyone here

[gray night]

Just because one side gets buffs doesn’t mean the other should

This update is a long time coming and needs to happen

[celest hare]

You're exaggerating, that's last ptb

[feral plover]

the issue is so many changes at once. I havent even begun talking about the syrenge changes - they don't want to extend chases and changed it to allowing for double SB, double balanced, double lithe, etc?

[celest hare]

Yeah but in this case the update is too survivor sided, it's easy for it not to be though

Syringe needs to be killed it's stupid now

[valid tide]

I think we all agree that the changes made are heavy handed and should be pulled back a bit, and also that Killers should get some fair compensation for all this as well, ala Ethan's suggestion to prevent aggressive unhook bodyblocking, some basekit slowdown, etc

[gray night]

Syringe is worse now than live

[celest hare]

I'm not insanely sure about that

[gray night]

You can only use it on yourself

[low quarry]

If the update goes through though then that'll create an even larger gap between survivors and killers. If you're trying to improve balance then this isn't the way to do it

[gray night]

You csn use it one someone else

But good luck knowing their perk loadout

[low quarry]

Plus I think we can all agree that we don't wanna be vsing ghoul, nurse, and blight 24/7