ptb-discussion

[lethal trail]

no need to get nasty about it. frustarting that the points are being seen is one thing being nasty is another he is actually nice about things for hte most part.

[reef portal]

It's not a necessary strategy for high tiers

Sorry you specified hard tunneling I can generally agree with that

Although currently the changes are directed to just the general existence of tunneling and slugging as a whole

[lethal trail]

yes i was specificaly hard beginging game tunneling/slugging

[stiff sorrel]

we dead ass on ptb rn?

ptb available again on steam?

[devout obsidian]

the PTB is tentatively set for the 4th of november

[raven flume]

They literally changed nothing. This was such an exciting update but now nothing changes. Literally.

[native grove]

what did they add or change in ptb expect the scratch marks?

[twilit pond]

We will have some anti-tunneling/anti-slugging and anti-facecamping changes, the ability to change the color of scratch marks, some Merchant changes and most likely some perk changes and bug fixes not mentioned.

[autumn mirage]

I just realize it falls under my cientific thought exam FUCK

[stark barn]

add anti-breathing

[autumn mirage]

Add anti-gen

[dusty edge]

@torpid horizon 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[lyric urchin]

Buff dracula

[fathom bane]

Survivors can now pick up and move generators

[lyric urchin]

Lmao

[autumn mirage]

Pocket generator and they can complete it while running

[fathom bane]

BNP now creates an extra generator with 1 charge required to complete. Whenever creating an extra generator, pool all remaining generator charges required into a pool and redistribute them across all generators equally. The new generator does not add to the total generators needed to repair

[fathom bane]

For the confused people:
This is basically a global enhanced BNP taking off 14.95 charges from all generators

[autumn mirage]

Lmaooo

I would die

[long bobcat]

sup guys

[snow tusk]

Add job application forms to the game for survivors

[autumn mirage]

Yk 2v8 classes? Give survivors part time jobs too lmao

[void pasture]

lol no. Some dead zones needed to be fixed like the center map of haddonfield, but the ones that are literally the corner of the map were fine but now you can run to the corner and have a random pallet to save you despite misplaying

on top of that there’s pallets every five feet and you just have to chew through them to do anything unless you’re playing nurse

Like this random pallet in the corner is so unnecessary

You’re never gonna be over there unless you’re pathing poorly or you’re in chase and make the mistake of running there yourself. If they’d just made the changes to the center of the map that would’ve been fine but now you don’t even get punished for being out positioned lmfao, and it’s like this for most maps.

And here. 2 connecting god pallets + a window that connects into a third pallet and a second window. Like seriously y’all don’t need this much shit to help you if you learned to loop properly but because behaviour is listening to baby survivors/bad survivors, y’all getting hand held with these pallet changes instead of forced to learn properly.

What they should’ve done was looked at each map and decided whether certain dead zones were unfair(like the one in center of haddonfield) and fix those ones instead of just adding a bandaid fix of more pallets everywhere

[lethal trail]

Its not a display to run into a dead zone. There shouldn't be so many dead zones. It needed to be fixed

The random pallet in the corner is doing exactly what its for. Filling the dead zones. You dont want to to have mechanics that keep from tunneling and slugging then you,deal with this. I is LITTERALLY the only defense we have against being tunnel and slugged. And I for one as a killer am ok with that be ahs wi dont tunnel or slug to get a 4k . If I get the 4k fuckinf great( I can get it if I truely lock in and don't get out played) if I only get one. Cook id I lose them all ok what do I need to do to improve my self that DOESNT ruin the experience for others

[void pasture]

Dude there’s no reason to run to the corner of the map

there’s no gens, no hooks, you have no reason to be there. If you run there that’s on you.

[lethal trail]

Yes there is! Especially in chase where you,are beinf tunneled and tryinf to keep you from your team mates its called strategy. No its not a miss play. Its a good strat. Your just mad because now it can,work. And it does. Im happy survicors are getting some sort of help since they have been dog shit on with the anti tunnel and slugging mecja

[void pasture]

No actually there’s no reason to run to a corner

[lethal trail]

Your opiniom

[void pasture]

if you’re being tunneled the killer is focused on you, loop them at actual tiles

[lethal trail]

And its kinda a dumb one.

[void pasture]

lmfao sure buddy

[void pasture]

If the killer is actually tunneling you then they won’t care about your teammates being nearby

It’s also not one or the other, you don’t HAVE to run to the corner of the map to not take them near your team

[lethal trail]

The whole map is a loop not.just where YOU think should be a loop bud. The wjole.map not just center the corners too.

[void pasture]

All this is doing is making the game so much more braindead for survivor lmfao

but keep glazing it I’m sure they’ll pay you greatly

[void pasture]

Cuz It’s not just the corner pallets being added, they added more pallets overall when that was unnecessary

only problematic dead zones like center map of haddonfield needed pallets. Things that weren’t like that were fine.

[lethal trail]

You dont have to like that there is a whole map to lop with including corners with random pallets. But again! They need SOME. Way to loop and have some kinda way to live outside od beinf tunneled and slugged since other whiny ass killers dont want to be punished for their own shit plays.

[void pasture]

Y’ALL HAVE WAYS TO LOOP AND AVOID TUNNELING WITHOUT THE CORNERS

you don’t NEED the corner pallets to loop

You keep saying survivors NEED some way to loop and survive tunneling, YOU ALREADY HAVE ALL THAT

[lethal trail]

Im a killer hybrid I play both sides equally. Ans im telling you. They do need the fuxking corners. They do need pallets. And again I dont want to see anyone complaining about the pallet update. If you complained about having any punishing thinfs to reduce tunneling and slugging

[void pasture]

it’s called being good at looping and using anti tunnel if you’re constantly getting tunneled. Being good at looping is the biggest counter to tunneling for most killers because you’re then wasting their time.

[void pasture]

Well sometimes you have to slug to counter things so that’s not even comparable

Without slugging there’s no counter to sabo builds, survivors hovering for pallet/flash saves, people abusing DS to use it agressively instead of actually as anti-tunnel etc

Y’all already have pallets and tiles to loop without the corner ones

Also I play both sides as well so..

[lethal trail]

anti tunnel is straight up ignored/useless now.

And again if we aren't going give survicors mechanics to fully protect them from HARD tunneling/tunneling proper mechanics
( agre on the slugging formpreessubut not for right out the gate 4 man slug/hard tunneling begining of match)

Then deal with munching pallets. At this point. Ues survicors do need pallets all over the map not.just inside the center.

[dusty edge]

@copper kernel 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[limpid estuary]

Can they fix palet density man?I cant with red forest

[void pasture]

Dude if you can’t see how it’s problematic to have every map be like gideons in terms of pallets + having survivors not get punished for running to the corner of the map when you have no reason to do that then idk what to say except get a new brain cuz clearly yours is defective.

SOME changes were needed, like center of haddonfield. But most maps didn’t need the extra pallets they got, at least not the amount that they ended up getting, and corners don’t need pallets.

[lethal trail]

As killer hybrid. I think the palette density is fine learn to work around it or take the l. The pallets are the unfortunately necessary evil to stop ( hard) tunneling and slugging

Dued your the one who is problematic thinking here.

If corners weren't supposed to be used we would onlt have the center. Ther is a whole map. For. A. Reason. You are ment. To. Loop. The. Whole. Map. Corners. Included. Again its a cry for other killers because its not being handed to them on a silver platter and guided as " its a hand holdong for survivor" when its not. It is fixing the. WHOLEZ MAP

[void pasture]

You can’t work around fifty pallets that all connect into one another

Not unless you’re playing nurse or some other high tier killer

most killers will have to just eat like five to six pallets before being able to do much and that’s not healthy game design.

Every time behaviour opens their mouth with “quality of life” changes I laugh cuz it’s almost always punishing killers for literally existing and making survivor easier

It’s also crazy cuz plenty of people could loop killers like crazy before these changes so clearly they weren’t all needed.

Some definitely were, but the majority were not.

[lethal trail]

Dude. Survivors have gotten ONE quality of life update. That has been for them.

Pallets.

Spawn? Killers.
No unhooking with out offerings/perks. Killers.
Dc penalties because " they dint want bots' killers. W

We killers have gotten most of the quality of life updates

Any time a quality of life updates. Comes for survivors? Killers complain and it gets scrubbed

Aka. Anti tunnel/slugging mechanics.

I will agree thet need edit dial back the numbers on the killer punishments. From 6 to 3? Or put it to gen based. But I like from 6 hooks to to 3. And it would have been fine.

The slugging was fine just as it was.

Now? Its completely dog shit.

Oh and useless. 100% useless. Cause killers already ignore off the record.

120 seconds? Is enough to legit 4 man slug. And not let anyone up.

Killers already ignore anti camp by proxy camping. ( ans if I heard right thet are kinda ruining this too)

Like seriously. Everythunf to help survivors have a chance. Not have it handed to them but have a damn chance.? Killers complian and its removed.

Killers complain aboit gen speeds? It gets updated to!

Survicors dont want their items beinf depleted by a killer perk cause thet grinds and omg their crybabiesm

Survivors want to actually be ablemto play the game and not be sent back to lobby? Or bleed out in ground? Skill issue go be a cry baby somewhere else. I dont care idnyou also payed to play. Only.my enjoyment matters.

[void pasture]

Whatever change they made to gen speeds clearly wasn’t bad enough cuz I’ve never noticed a difference

also yea it is kinda crybaby behaviour to whine about a perk that depletes your items charges when that’s the only full counter to most items.

[void pasture]

Also the thing is you’re only talking about one sides enjoyment. You’re ignoring how much this negatively affects killers, especially new killers.

Whenever I see people talking about “making the game appealing to new players” nearly EVERY TIME they don’t mean actually new players, they mean new survivors.

[lethal trail]

Franklins is.fine nowm but you dont need to drain one of some ones only.means of survival they have.

As for baby players to begin with. Should have a mode just for tnem to learn the ropes like I do my friends every time I go ans drag them to this wretched game.

[void pasture]

Franklin’s was fine as it was before, it was an unnecessary nerf that simply pandered to survivors complaining

If you were a good survivor you would’ve learned to adapt to suddenly not having an item

[lethal trail]

I will say. I dont think new players should be catered to both killer or survivor and I dont think HIGH Mmr should be catered too.

I think every day regular players are the meat and potatoes of the game.

Not ones her just for fandoms.

1. Survivors woek blood sweat and tears into getting ther bp to get their items and have to grind to get those items.

For a killer to simply be able.to remove that. Nope. If especially since we cant do anything close to that to a killer. Not at all

Even,blast mines dont make that a killer wastes a kick on the Gen. That's the equivalent.

But. Anyway I am kinda done with this for now. I truelt.just tired of everything that was promised? Gets gutted turned to dog shit. And litterally ignored the stars of why people leave this game. Outcast had an invasion mode. I think I may be joining the masses that are leaving the game.

[void pasture]

“Blood sweat and tears” LMFAO goodbye

it does not take that much work to get items you are being extremely over dramatic lmfao

[lethal trail]

Let me ask you this.

If a survivor had a way to drain an add on mid game.

Would you be ok with that.

Its y8ur special shinny ebony adding in

[void pasture]

I mean that’s not even remotely the same

[lethal trail]

Yes. It. Is. So answer the question

[void pasture]

It’s literally not the same at all lmfao

For starters, add ons don’t work off charges

So there wouldn’t even be a way to “drain” them.

[lethal trail]

Items are the exact same as anons for killer.s completely parallel but the killers have to be perm cause obviously the power house and the survivor items depete.

Same parallel answer the question.

If a durvicor.could make a add in completely useless by dieing somethinf to a gen or somethinf of that line. And renders that shinny ebony you worked hard fo get

Would yoh be ok with it.

[void pasture]

Addons for killer powers are not the same as items for survivors

so no I wouldn’t be okay with it because it’s not even remotely the same thing happening lmfao

[lethal trail]

I disagree..

Items are kinda kike a survicors add on. They can change the items and add-ons like a killer can only theirs depleted whixh is why they can,change their " power" cause its temp we're a killers is perm. Only.difference there is.

[void pasture]

You can disagree all you want idc lmao

Killer power addons are different from survivor items. Draining charges from an item is such a non issue but of course whiney survivors gonna complain instead of adapt.

Anyways I’m done with this debate, I’ve got better stuff to do than waste my time arguing with someone who clearly thinks survivors need extra help when they don’t

[lethal trail]

They had no problem adapting its easy leave your item at the door. And play with out it. Easy that isnt an issue. Right?

Except.

Now all spawn together. And instant kiler.spawn next to you. Dont get a chance to just drop it so it doesnt get drained.

Oh wait cant just be proactive

Because we dont know he has franklins. Sooo solo qs are fed in losing their items completely.

Swifs can def adapt.he shit he has franklins drop items instantly and remember where they are so you can hace it leaving incase of escape. But solos got fed in this

Ill be honest I prefer 2v8 style.over 1v4 style. Play wise and having coms with other killer wise

[deft crag]

when does the ptb start

[dusty edge]

@heady creek 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[verbal flicker]

It’s scheduled for November 4th

[burnt hedge]

No it's November 2nd they moved it

[verbal flicker]

Ah mb ty

[limber tiger]

It could be on October 33rd

[void pasture]

The killer does not spawn next to you what are you even talking about

[void pasture]

Yea that’s kinda the point? You’re not supposed to know the other sides hand until they play lmao

[lethal trail]

Really tell that to the many times we load in and haven't moved and already in chase.

[void pasture]

Right because that’s totally a thing that happens lmfao

[lethal trail]

Which is why depleting the item is bs.

[lethal trail]

It. Does. Dude.

Not all the time hut it happens

[void pasture]

it doesn’t happen at a high enough rate to be an actual issue

I have never had a match as survivor where we load in and were immediately in chase before even moving

I’ve had times where we’re in terror radius due to a build on doctor, but never have I been in a match where a survivor is chased before they get a chance to move at all

[dusty edge]

@unique oxide 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[reef portal]

This is quite literally not possible

[void pasture]

Like I mean I don’t have like a thousand hours but I’ve played a lot of matches and I’ve literally never had that happen lol

[reef portal]

The only way a killer is spawning so close to you that a chase instantly begins is if your up against nurse or blight on very specific maps where they can just rush to where you spawn

[void pasture]

I think I’m at like 700 ish now

[reef portal]

But that's an issue with nurse and blight and not killer as a whole

[void pasture]

Most matches as killer I’ve found survivors tend to spawn fairly far away

[reef portal]

They spawn around the opposite side of the map to you every time

[void pasture]

I usually just assume opposite end of the map most matches when I play killer

[void pasture]

Okay cool I been doing the right thing then lmaooo

[reef portal]

When they changed the spawn logic

Which is helpful for both killers and survivors since both generally know where each other are and survivors spawn together now

It tends to mostly be a survivor benefit tho since survivors in a group can pop gens comically fast

[reef portal]

Didn't franklins literally lose its item draining effect

Or did they revert it

Ok they did revert it

[dusty edge]

@turbid abyss 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[reef portal]

Killer add ons are made to enhance the specific build/archetype a killer is using and the ones with significant increases typically have large downsides to change how they play, survivor add-ons are typically straight upgrades because the items are just meant to give survivors a boost in a specific thing

You cannot compare iri head to a hemorrhagic syringe or brand new part

[lyric orbit]

All ima say is, the base kit pop on unique hooks should've stayed

It's a direct reward for the killer choosing not to tunnel

But most importantly, it's noticeable. No one cares about a little bloodlust, if you're a low tier killer you'll get pre-ran anyways

[reef portal]

I wouldn't mind either basekit chili or basekit pop for it

Also if we're just not gonna revert the pallet changes give us basekit fire up or something

[reef portal]

So many killers desperately need it with how many pallets are in maps now

[lyric orbit]

A stacking % bonus to actions for unique hooks sounds nice

Basekit bloodlust after hook does LITERALLY nothing

The effect may as well be a placebo

You're still going to get pre-ran, but now you can't even kick the Gen with basekit pop

[reef portal]

It's a nice bonus and will be big on slower killers but also it is very little and probably won't be enough of a benefit for people to go out of their way to get it

[lyric orbit]

Yeah it's "predictable" gameplay, but that's because it feels good to nuke a gen after a hook. This is why OLD OLD pop was ran so often

[reef portal]

It's gonna be good early game since you'll be able to apply pressure alot better after that first hook atleast

[lyric orbit]

You get a hook, then you nuke a gen

That was a fun, healthy loop that felt good

And NO one hated old pop

[lyric orbit]

I doubt it

Heavily doubt it, but we'll see

[reef portal]

It's not much

It'll be nice tho atleast since we don't have a lot of the horrible shit from the last ptb

As long as they don't bring back the hook status being hidden I think it shouldn't be super impactful

[lyric orbit]

I thought that ptb was nice

Ngl, I was chilling with certain killers

[reef portal]

Alot of killers just

[lyric orbit]

Freddy was COOKIN with those changes

[reef portal]

Couldn't

It literally only worked with relatively high tiers or killers with the mobility to check on hooks

[lyric orbit]

I just hope they bring back the pop

[reef portal]

Yeah

[lyric orbit]

That would make killers less reliant on slowdown

Since they'd have a basekit form of slowdown

[carmine nimbus]

Her buffs lowk boost her to mid C tier and some ppl belive it boost her into low b tier

For future things this buffs were just starter pack more changes were gona be made

[dusty edge]

@south ridge 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[tawny sable]

The buffs are that good?

[carmine nimbus]

Yes

Fast vault imunity gone is MASSIVE

10% hinder and i hope they dont touch vtp so it might be 12 % hinder also good

[tawny sable]

Wait 10% hinder?

Did they finally switch Skull Merchant from survivor to killer

[void pasture]

Yea it did, I was arguing that that was completely unnecessary and done due to survivors complaining, they were arguing it was necessary and came in with their comparison to killer power addons

[reef portal]

Yeah

[void pasture]

It’s funny cuz it doesn’t even really help trapper at all and he’s one of the killers who’d need it the most

[reef portal]

Franklins is really situational and typically doesn't get a ton of value against anything but flashlight squads

[sharp stag]

how are ppl already testing patch ?

[void pasture]

because the bloodlust goes away when using power so if you reset a trap or place one in front of the hook there goes the bloodlust

[reef portal]

Since toolboxes get used up VERY quickly already and typically go into the first few gens

[simple stone]

this is like the least noticeable buff 😭

thats just making one of her addons basekit

fast vault immunity alone bumps her up a tier

[tawny sable]

It'll be the thing most newer players will probably notice imo

Unless im missing a really big change

[analog plover]

I agree to this statement Scott

[snow tusk]

Someone wake me up when the patch notes are up

[gilded condor]

Guys I have a suggestion for the game what if they add the grabber

That would be so sick because the movie just came out

[limber tiger]

[real plaza]

this video game needs more pallets

[fresh tulip]

Dbd devs for some fucking reason after hundreds of complaints on the previous patch notes deciding to just keep the buffs for survivors and take away the buffs of killers

[misty yew]

It's a common strategy, called the "door in the face" technique.

You ask (or in this case propose) for something completely unreasonable (the previous patch) then ask for something slightly more reasonable (this patch) and then you'll be more likely to accept it.

And unfortunately, it works too often.

[void pasture]

This gotta be bait

[void pasture]

Yea it’s working already lmao. Seen so many people being like “these changes are good!” “These changes are much better!” as if they’re not still dogshit lol.

[real plaza]

and perks more perks like dh and ds and lithe

these perks r not being used enough

[void pasture]

killers get practically nothing for unique hooks now(bloodlust for 15 seconds that goes away when breaking pallet, using powers or entering chase isn’t gonna do much at all), and survivors are just getting buffed even more.

[void pasture]

Yea this is bait

[real plaza]

no it isnt scott

[void pasture]

If it’s not bait then you’re actually stupid I fear

[misty yew]

I'm hoping people get a wake up call when the ptb hits on how bad the changes are. If not, hopefully shortly after, like the pallet density changes.

[real plaza]

define stupid scott

[void pasture]

You own a mirror?

[real plaza]

scott owning mirrors doesnt matter do u knnow what matters?

[void pasture]

if so just look into it, you’ll find the definition staring back at you

[void pasture]

Your mom

[real plaza]

our friendship

[void pasture]

AND your dad. #greedybisexual

[real plaza]

that is true scott they do matter too

[candid merlin]

???

we are not playing the same game this has to be ragebait

[real plaza]

• survivors should have 2 extra hook lives each to balance the current game

[idle timber]

Now survivors actually don't need any brains to play as

[dusty edge]

@proven cloak 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[dusty edge]

@sand crane 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[keen bear]

peak ragebait

[dusty edge]

@empty grove 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@vast abyss 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@unique oxide 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[void pasture]

how is it ragebait lmfao

these are genuinely shit changes. pop and bbq for unique hooks was way better than whatever this sorry excuse of an incentive is.

[wary hamlet]

Honestly agree

15 second bloodlust and a 750 bloodpoint bonus (LOL) isn’t gonna do very much

If it was still a bbq and pop for unique hooks on top of that bloodlust I think that would do a good enough job to discourage tunneling

Especially now that killers dont get punished for you know… killing now.

[wary hamlet]

Im still baffled they thought a bloodpoint bonus period would do the trick to get people to not tunnel lmao

Peak bhvr tone deaf shenanigans

[long bay]

Why cant survs just "move to a random hook" once per hook?

That takes care of camping and hard tunnelling

Or even the 2v8 way of hooks

[misty yew]

That would solve a lot of problems but I'm 99% sure they refuse to do that because it would make pyramid head less unique, and thus drive down sales for him.

I have no proof of that; but I'm trying to look at it the way bhvr does.

[long bay]

Fair. I never call it a good idea, but it's an idea

i would like to watch all the videos about "the changes suck because i cant get kills anymore". i want survs being able to win a game if the survs are better, and i want to go back to "killer main". it got boring when my competition was just playing 3v1s
but im also gonna miss surv. i been playing surv since the beginning of the 2v8/keneki/springtrap era when it took half an hour to find a killer game for a year, but its actually kinda fun

[void pasture]

No literally it’s so insignificant I lowkey forgot the bp bonus was even added lmao

It’s literally “here’s a decent incentive for unique hooks that’s completely made irrelevant by how harsh the punishment for tunneling is and the fact some of the punishments can trigger without even tunneling.”(ptb anti tunneling changes) to now being “here’s a dogshit incentive for unique hooks that won’t really give you anything, but hey look! We removed the punishment for tunneling!”

[west fiber]

I think dbd needs to just fix their game 🤷‍♂️

[fathom widget]

I will say endgame singularity will be seen a lot more considering they just tunnel put obsession and go for hooks on everyone so that by endgame its 3 ppl trying to do the gates while they constantly get marked. Sadako may become the worst killer in the game since she cannot slug for pressure and playing for hooks is terrible especially now that you'll need to get minimum 4 hooks before a kill most of the time with all the anti tunnel stuff given to them

The bottom tier killers will substantially see their kill rates decrease as tunneling will be miles harder and they simply do not have map or gen pressure along with taking a long time to down

Nurse and blight probably will be the most played killers at high mmr

Wanna play a fun killer at high mmr? Sorry, you wont have much fun with 4 man escapes

[dusty edge]

@fringe cove 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[snow tusk]

Isn’t Soma Family Photo possibly getting nerfed? Endgame Singularity is still gonna be good no doubt but like ehhhhh

[fathom widget]

I never really used soma family photo

I just used range increase, extra biopod or baseball glove, decreased hinder penalty

If i have lots ill use the everyone starts slipstreamed and sometimes terror radius while slipstreamed

Rapid brutality makes singu a lot better with that haste

[snow tusk]

In Rapid we trust

[fathom widget]

Rarely gets to bloodlust anyway when he tps since thats using power

[snow tusk]

Question being is will killers lean towards more endgame builds or quadruple slowdown?

[shut inlet]

I think that bhvr heard the hand holding complaints and thought it was for killers instead of survivors 💔

I mean I think it was almost universally agreed on that rewarding the "correct" play style is the way to go

Also 30s of endurance is kind of crazy if the duration wasn't changed

Since thatll make unhook protections much more abusable than bhvr wants

Id love for elusive and the undetectableness of the protections to be 30s and maybe even the haste

But not that extra hit

[wary hamlet]

They did

The fact that they think all killers who slug are evil is even more insane

Completely out of touch

[wary hamlet]

Honestly gonna be the same as before

Quad slowdown. Its just gonna be a lot harder to tunnel with elusive being a thing but it being the most viable strat to win remains unchanged

Imo

At least until they try to punish killers for killing again

[snow tusk]

Weren’t they planning to nerf Pain Res last ptb?

[wary hamlet]

Yes

If pain res ever gets nerfed then idk

I guess just run pop thats probably the next best thing until they gut that also

BHVR will 100% gut every single gen slowdown perk into the ground before even thinking about touching the reason said perks are constantly used which is gen speeds being out of control.

[misty yew]

A reminder that just because these changes appear better than the previous patch doesn't make them good. I've already seen people try to say that these news ones are great just because "they're not the previous ones". Give them an inch, they'll take it a mile.

[wary hamlet]

Yeah instead of absolute dogshit we got horse radish instead

[misty yew]

I've never understood that mind set. That's literally a "pick your poison" scenario. Seeing that as a win in any capacity is delusional

[wary hamlet]

Honestly if the incentives for unique hooks werent a complete joke I’d mess with these changes

But bloodlust for 15 seconds plus a bloodpoint bonus is just

Just give us pop and bbq on hook back bro

If they really wanna be selfish about it at MINIMUM give us base kit bbq

[misty yew]

Also confused about the 20 meters anti camp range. You're given no indication you're still in the range, so on maps like RPD you might just be screwed if you chase someone upstairs.

[wary hamlet]

Yeah thats also gonna suck

[misty yew]

Like unless your outside and you hook someone on the hook in that hallway, 20 meters is almost the entirety of the upstairs unless your running for the balcony

[wary hamlet]

Its another change that’s gonna hurt low-mid tier killers the most

While leaving top tiers virtually uneffected unless its a indoor map

Killers like trickster, nemesis, etc that dont have the ability to go back to hook in 2 seconds when a unhook happens tend to rely on hanging around the hooks general area

[misty yew]

24 meters is the average stealth killers terror radius. 24 meters away, by BHVRs own admission, is considered proxy camping. Like bro, huh? stealth killers are weaker, why is their terror radius the standard for proxy camping?

[wary hamlet]

A whole ass stealth killers terror radius is considered camping loool

[misty yew]

That's not a theory, they show it on a chart; 24 meters or closer is considered proxy camping.

[wary hamlet]

For killers like ghoul its just whatever

You think a ghouls gonna care about a 24 meter proxy radius when they can zip from across the map back to the hook at anytime

The moment a unhook happens

[misty yew]

Meanwhile me, just trying to play Onyrō in peace

[wary hamlet]

It always annoys me how a majority of the killer nerfs they put out that effect core mechanics and strats for killer always hurt low-mid tier killers and like

Hardly if at all effect the top 5-8 killers on the roster

Like yeah lets make already weak killers who struggle to begin with struggle even more

Instead of actual problematic killers survivors hate playing against

[tiny kettle]

Every time I hear about proxy camp range I think of a Nurse with a full blink 40m away.

[wary hamlet]

yeah LOL

Nurse blight and ghoul be like: “proxy what?”

[misty yew]

Also healing and gen speeds are a little wack right now.

[wary hamlet]

There is no anti camp we are coming back to the hook from across the map in 5 seconds to jump you.

[tiny kettle]

"Lets make low tiers even worse. Low tiers are why people tunnel? Nah you're wrong"

[wary hamlet]

Its totally not the insane gen speeds and heal speeds in the game currently

[obtuse berry]

They don’t play the game at all

They get beat by killers in their friendly matches and then nerf them

[tiny kettle]

Of course thats a sticker. Wholesome little Jim the beloved meme of the community

[wary hamlet]

The only way to get them to listen to killer main complaints is to shove it in their faces. We need another live stream where a top individual at bhvr gets shat on by a swf

[obtuse berry]

They added a new status to help avoid the killer off hook and then added 30s of endurance loool

Massive swf buff

[tiny kettle]

Basekit otr yay

[wary hamlet]

Elusive is like ok

[obtuse berry]

The person off hook can just call the killers location out

[wary hamlet]

The 30s of endurance is naaaaah

[obtuse berry]

While being able to take hits and then run off with no scratch marks

[wary hamlet]

And the aura read yeah thats overkill.

[misty yew]

Funnily enough I think a MMO I play has a pretty good solution for healing speeds. Basically it's healing sickness, where if you're healed too many times, it'll get less and less effective.

Maybe after a survivor heals like say 3 times a healing sickness sets in and gets worse the more they heal, making their healing less effective,so they'll heal more strategically instead of just healing in 4 seconds under hook? It wouldn't fix everything but it could be a temporary fix if anything

[wary hamlet]

But elusive as a status effect I think is fine it makes it a little tougher to tunnel out someone but not impossible

[obtuse berry]

Also 15 seconds of bloodlust is literally nothing

[wary hamlet]

Gives the unhooked survivor a fair chance. The extra endurance and the aura read is too much though

[obtuse berry]

There’s no incentive there to not tunnel

[tiny kettle]

If only they used ptbs for something other than giant survivor buffs

[wary hamlet]

Top tier killers who use their powers for mobility are gonna lose it instantly

So yeah 0 incentive to not tunnel

[obtuse berry]

Yeah so it means nothing to them

[tiny kettle]

I love 0.2% haste thats lost instantly on every killer

[misty yew]

I feel like if they really put effort into it, a healing sickness mechanic would single Handley fix the healing speeds, while still keeping it strong. Like genuinely.

[obtuse berry]

The survivor buffs don’t even affect high tiers that much

[wary hamlet]

^

[obtuse berry]

They are still going to tunnel you just not right off hook

[wary hamlet]

survivors are still gonna get shat on by krause, ghoul, blight, nurse, etc

[tiny kettle]

Honestly, its an idea I really like.

[wary hamlet]

All these changes are gonna do is push more killers to only play top tiers

[obtuse berry]

Meanwhile killers like trapper or hag get an undetectable invincible person following them around calling out traps through walls

[wary hamlet]

Who can ignore these changes

[obtuse berry]

RIP hag even more

[misty yew]

Does need to be fleshed out a lot, but it's an idea at least. And I feel it's better than whatever this clown show is

[tiny kettle]

Yep

[obtuse berry]

Honestly I hope dbd player count starts cratering after this

They do not deserve their success in the modern era

If any other game kept doing this they would have been long dead

Having no competition is keeping the game alive more than the actual content

[wary hamlet]

Its legit an endless loop.

Survivors want something for killer nerfed
BHVR nerfs it
Top killers are unaffected while low-mid tier killers suffer
Survivors continue to complain
The process repeats

[obtuse berry]

nerf low to mid tier killer
killers need to play sweatier
survivors complain about evil tunneling
repeat the cycle

hmm maybe we should stop trying to balance the entire game and every perk around 2 S tiers that have been dominating for years

nope let’s nerf a random C tier again

[wary hamlet]

Survivor mains complaining about getting shat on by ghouls and krauses unaware that when bhvr nerfs broad strats for killer it only makes the killers they hate playing against even more prevalent

As people who previously played low tier killers insta lock top ones now

[obtuse berry]

Half the roster is unplayable with the pallet density and people wonder why they keep seeing ghouls

[wary hamlet]

yep

All of this is ON TOP this awful pallet density change that happened lmao

[obtuse berry]

why would you want to engage with a killer that’s miserable to play and is forced to run the same perks every time to have even a small chance

or you can just play ghoul or Krause and have fun with your brain off

[obtuse berry]

Not to mention how many killers are straight up bugged in ways that make them even more miserable

Deathslinger is still bugged and can’t shoot through gaps

Victor still bounces off people half the time

[wary hamlet]

Im actually scared about what they are gonna do to trickster

[misty yew]

Also, they need more feedback for the pallet density changes. just admit ya screwed up and revert most of it.

[wary hamlet]

Please don’t turn my main killer into dash slop

[tiny kettle]

Yep, I played one game of scratched mirrors Myers and then immediately went back to full Myers with spirit fury.

[obtuse berry]

He will drop as a high B tier then get giga nerfed because survivors will whine about ranged damage

[tiny kettle]

He now throws himself instead of knives

[obtuse berry]

They HATE any killer that can down without an m1

[wary hamlet]

They have a chance to either do something super unique that involves his music in his kit or just turn him into dash slop and call it a day

[obtuse berry]

And trickster is already a hated killer

[misty yew]

Not even down, just an injury. Look at ghoul who factually and objectively cannot down you while in his power. Say, what can blight do again?

[wary hamlet]

He’s hated because survivors cant loop him like they would any other killer

He has virtually 0 counter play in chase other than looping at a spot with a high wall he cant shoot over

[obtuse berry]

There was a time when I played almost every single killer

[wary hamlet]

But other than that he’s weak 0 map presence

[obtuse berry]

Now I barely play and when I do its only blight

there is no sense of reward in playing anyone else right now

blight is the only killer where I feel rewarded for map knowledge and game sense

everyone else is just at the mercy of survivors and a single mistake will ruin your game

while they are able to make essentially unlimited bad plays

[wary hamlet]

I like playing trickster because on console it feels really rewarding landing good knife throws

Compared to pc he’s much more difficult on console

[misty yew]

I like that design. He plays differently; instead of just outchasing the stage performer you have to make yourself not get into that situation to begin with. A lot of killers have free hit scenarios like slinger and a guy vaulting a window, but trickster, if used correctly just downs you if you don't hide. It's fun for both sides, least for me.

[wary hamlet]

Also with the way main event and his blades work he kinda hard counters people who like to body block

Since he can just melt through health states so fast

[obtuse berry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/230118965077082123/1102834931182342164/grit_value.mov?ex=690102d1&is=68ffb151&hm=18f0145afbd640f07bf80452dbd7cd97e6298fd8102c2c53f45e88fa1c77251b&

back in the day I used to do funny builds

stuff like this just does not happen anymore

[misty yew]

One thing I hope they do with trickster is change his add-ons cause Jesus Christ

[wary hamlet]

Yeah every trickster in the history of ever only runs memento and watch

Actively selling if you don’t

[obtuse berry]

you need bouncy knives

[misty yew]

I have never been less interested or intrigued in a killers add-ons more than trickster. And I main Onyrō

[wary hamlet]

The bounce knives can be fun to use but I dont think they are really viable

[obtuse berry]

they are extremely viable

the best counter to trickster is crouching behind loops to force him to lower the knife and move

if you have bouncy knives you can just line up a bounce and hit them

[wary hamlet]

The throw rate memento gives+ watch extending main event by an obscene amount of time imo is his best combination

[misty yew]

The explosive knives are great to, since you can aim at the survivors feet and guarantee some sort of laceration progress. Outside of the purple add-ons that change the blades, all his other add-ons (except memento and watch) are so pointless I forgot what they even are.

[wary hamlet]

Strong but boring since its just a number increase to his abilities

Ricochet knives do be fun to play with

The explosive also

[misty yew]

I'm hoping they pull a pyramid head and make his add-ons actually interesting. Maybe his CD add-ons can mimic legions mix tape and give him some custom music? (Not sure if it's a hot take, but for a pop star his terror theme is really uninspired and bland)

[wary hamlet]

Custom music add ons would be super dope

And fit his character perfectly

[wary hamlet]

His terror theme I actually like for how unhinged and crazy it sounds

[misty yew]

Like it makes more sense for him to have than legion does. Yeah it would make legion less unique but they still sell a lot of skins, I don't think it'll be a net negative.

[wary hamlet]

Definitely screams psychopathic murderer

[void pasture]

Hoping it’s the first one

He’s honestly just so boring to face since there’s not much real counterplay. It’s not like you can dodge the blades like you can a huntress hatchet or springtrap axe, just high wall and hope 😭

he’s not even that fun to play as either imo

[void pasture]

Technically no he can’t get a down with his power directly like say huntress could(or really any other killer, huntress was the first that came to mind), but due to the ability to cancel your power mid leap to be able to m1 the second you land, it kinda makes that completely irrelevant.

[void pasture]

Like genuinely the best counterplay to trickster is just rat it out. Hide and don’t get caught. Me personally that’s not very a fun or interactive gameplay loop.

[misty yew]

I'm still waiting for the plague changes. They have me really worried because I feel like bhvr is gonna drop an orbital strike on her since she's not very fun to go against with the whole 'broken all match' thing.

[autumn mirage]

Now i am more worried about BHVR mentality rather than the PTB

some of the shit they said on the live ARE SO OUT OF TOUCH tf???

[autumn mirage]

to this day she keeps facing invisible walls, broken hitboxes were survivor screams from being puked but they dont get infected/hurt, constant bugs on the shooting puke and more...

[tawny sable]

Has Nurse been out of the #1 spot at any point since her release?

[tawny sable]

Yeah that extra gen regression was definitely the problem trust. Theres no other reason to hate that ptb

[autumn mirage]

yeah like with buffed spirit long time ago where she had 0 counterplay lmao

[autumn mirage]

i mean on new last live too like saying that last PTB had killers handholding because "BBQ basekit" and shit....

[tawny sable]

So the only character to knock nurse out of the #1 spot was nurse 2

[tawny sable]

Which only worked on ppl with less hook states than the person you hooked btw

[autumn mirage]

i would say many others which overtunned release but didnt last never

[autumn mirage]

with all the downsides and normal BBQ nerfed among many other things

[tawny sable]

Point is she has never left the S tier

[autumn mirage]

oh yeah never, nowdays i would say is her lowest point specially with her blink bugging a lot but she is still the strongest

[fathom bane]

I mean, there was one patch very recently where she was knocked out of the top spot, but that was due to a major bug

where she basically could not use her second blink

[autumn mirage]

Thats still on game

She is constantly bugging her second and even first (i play her matchbox) blink where you get shown that you blink to other side but when you try to lunge instantly get tp back to where you were or blinks working inconsistent or straight up going anywhere

but they wont fix is since is nurse, everyone is happy when she gets handicaps

[opal mirage]

did you know if midway through the match you go for someone that’s deathhook it’s also tunneling

[autumn mirage]

Yup its stupid, the devs saying "over 40% of matchs have tunneling" but when you see what they consider tunnel is so fucking stupid... Killing anyone early in their eyes is tunneling

[quiet geyser]

Fr lol they don't play their game.

[dusty edge]

@woeful fable 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[dusty edge]

@leaden light 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[sacred comet]

Anti slugging is stupid dont add it verry simple

[winged fjord]

is the new ptb here??

[devout obsidian]

not until november 4th

[dusty edge]

@raven flume 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@thorn talon 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[deep rock]

flag my butt

[dusty edge]

@young cargo 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[lyric sand]

Do you still gain bloodlust from the unique hooks if you have Ultimate Weapon equipped?

[gilded imp]

so correct me if im wrong, but theres no killer penalties for hard tunneling at 5/4 gens?

[native aspen]

Based on the stream, correct, there are no punishments for tunneling, only incentives to not tunnel.

[gilded imp]

fucking lmao

and the incentives arent even that great 💀

[native aspen]

We won't know until it's in PTB but theoretically you wouldn't be able to gain Bloodlust (I assume you meant Rapid Brutality!) and the incentive is Bloodlust, although it is a special version of it so maybe they'd code around it.

[lyric sand]

Yeah that’s what I meant I got it confused

[obtuse berry]

Hooking the same person twice in a row at all in a match counts as tunneling in their data

Which is ridiculous

[autumn mirage]

I wonder if getting a 1k counts as tunnel too, yk when all 3 escape but the one with 0 hooks dies in gate so you pick up and get 3 hooks on a row

Or if they count tunneling if you get any kill at 5-6 hooks

(2-3 with 1 hook and one death)

[obtuse berry]

Yes

They count any time the killer hooks the same person twice in a row as tunneling

[autumn mirage]

Also they give even more buffs to unhook people so the survivors use it aggresively then get down again and the tunneling % grows, they feed their own problem and make no one happy

[obtuse berry]

There is actually almost zero bonus for unique hooks

15 seconds of bloodlust 1 is a joke

[autumn mirage]

Then no wonder lmaooo their data is so flawed, if you got to endgame without tunneling and you got one guy on death hook and other 0 hook and you manage to kill both they counting it as tunneling because the guy went from 0 to 3

[obtuse berry]

people have done their own studies using real tunneling as the criteria

[autumn mirage]

Is even worst when top tier killers dont benefit from it, if the benefits from no tunneling are worthless for top tiers then they will simply keep tunneling

[obtuse berry]

and it was something like 1% across all MMR

where the killer was hard tunneling one person

[autumn mirage]

I hate how behaviour is so out of touch with their game

It feels like is an stats simulator for them,dont treat players as people but numbers

[obtuse berry]

not only are they out of touch but they get defensive and salty when people call them out

then they double down and make even worse decisions

[autumn mirage]

And dont even take into accountt that "majority of playerbase" will always be survivor is literally 4/5 of the match

You saw the change of making some maps more likely to be the realm? And all are survivor sided maps...

[obtuse berry]

they pointed to their uninstall survey as proving that tunneling was making too many people quit

but in that survey there are only survivor bad experience options

there’s nothing regarding killer experience to complain about there

[autumn mirage]

And keep feeding the "us vs them" mentality by validating survivors who are toxic and making killers feel like the punching bag or saying they are being handhelded

[obtuse berry]

Killers have been getting the opposite of hand held for the last 2 years or so

[autumn mirage]

Exactly, is like saying "90% said No in this data" then you check and is because is the only option

[obtuse berry]

How many huge base kit buffs have survivors gotten since 2023

It’s been like 2-3 per year consistently

Meanwhile most mid tiers have gotten progressively worse and worse

[autumn mirage]

Is free perks literally

[obtuse berry]

So now there’s 4 viable high tiers and the rest are essentially garbage

well maybe closer to 7-8

with half of those being viable if you are playing optimally and make very very few mistakes

[autumn mirage]

I wanted to play deathslinger with a good buildand best addons and i had to hard tunnel 2 people and still lost, i did all chases decently fast, got ride of resources, uses gen slow, didnt overcommit and still i loss sooo hard

[obtuse berry]

deathslinger isn’t worth playing right now

[autumn mirage]

If i couldnt tunnel i would have gotten 2 hooks

[obtuse berry]

he is unironically D tier right now

horribly bugged on almost every map, nuked by pallet density, no map pressure

[autumn mirage]

Not yet but he is C/B

[obtuse berry]

screwed by instant healing meta

[autumn mirage]

The maps simply dont let you use your power at all or invisible walls or indoor

Same with Plague, she is A tier but literally on life support from all her bugs, hitboxes and more

[obtuse berry]

The only killers worth even trying to use right now

Are the high mobility S tiers

or certain strong antiloops that don’t care about pallets like artist

even killers like oni that used to be viable kind of suck now with the pallet density

oni will never get his power against a decent team now

they will just predrop and chain pallets

[tawny sable]

For low tiers anti-pallet is the new gen regression

[idle burrow]

The PTB is out?

[autumn mirage]

Even them, i played a match with Blight without his strongest addon and i got sent to Racoon police i lost so fucking hard even with lethal, nowhere and pain res because pallets everywhere, cant even use my mobility good and simply a trash map while the gens go flying so fast

[tawny sable]

6 days

[autumn mirage]

And lets remember they plan on making racoon city map be more common because "community loves it!!!" (Survivors)

[autumn mirage]

Or simply gen rush while you get it first time

[tawny sable]

Newer killers also like it because it's easy to learn

[autumn mirage]

They need to revert the pallet density changes on everyone except naybe Haddofild and that one other but make it 6-8 pallets not 10

[autumn mirage]

Yeah but in general newer killers are better than newer survivors thats just how things are

[tawny sable]

Every map should have a standardized amount of pallets based on size

I can't believe they didnt do that 5 years ago

[obtuse berry]

If they were smart they would make it killer dependent

[autumn mirage]

And main building, nostramus is such a garbage because the amount of time survivors buy simply by looping inside the ship and dropping all pallets is worth 3 gens

[autumn mirage]

They just try to copy and paste, look at all the maps and you will see a main building in the middle and pallets all around then shack, is the same exact formula on 90% of maps even reworking ones that werent into it

[autumn mirage]

Agree, some killers are unplayable on many maps

[tawny sable]

Like, the killer picks? Or it cycles between different maps depending on which killer you picked?

Also this is off topic but do yall agree map offerings should've banned a map instead of making it more likely?

[idle burrow]

Will it just feature the QoLs or will it have a mid-chapter?

[tawny sable]

Just "QOL"s afaik

[gilded imp]

i dont get why we couldnt keep the bonus to gen kick on unique hooks?

[lyric sand]

Idk according to behavior it’s too much handholding

It’s stupid tbh the new rewards you get for not tunneling suck in my opinion I doubt nothings gonna change much people are still gonna tunnel

[rocky bobcat]

When will BHVR realize that the reaosn killers tunnel, camp, and slug is because it's the only consistent way to win in high MMR/against SWF. Here are some rapid fire ideas from yours truly

For every unique hook on a survivor, all other survivors in the trial suffer from a 7.5% gen repair penalty for the rest of the trial

Increase basekit endurance to 15 seconds, and increase the haste bonus by 5 seconds. Survivors also lose collision with ALL PLAYERS in the trial. Survivors have their killer instinct hidden from them until they preform a conspicuous action, affect depletes after 15 seconds

Off The Record is now Reworked: OTR now provides the elusive affect

[gilded imp]

and yet the 32m aura reading isnt

i hate that i have to tunnel, cuz i feel like a asshole for doing it... but i need to get a kill somehow :(

[gilded imp]

32m is a bit absurd, id lower it to like 16

[lyric sand]

Also what about the anti camp features? I saw a video about the radius for facecamping being changed to 20 meters or something close to that but is that true?

[gilded imp]

yea they're changing it to 20 meters

[autumn mirage]

Agree honestly now that i think about it

[autumn mirage]

Is not even that good on majority of non mobility killers, they give survivors so many basekit perks why cant even do a 10% basekit pain res or some shit???

[gilded imp]

exactly, killers are getting fucking nothing

oh boy more bloodpoints (even though its so easy to farm them)

[autumn mirage]

Gives survivors shit ton of basekit: guys this is just for fun of everyone!!!

They give a bandage of basekit while trying to pass one of theist abusable and handholding survivirs changes: killers are being so handholded!

[gilded imp]

might as well give everyone a 3rd hookstate at this point

[autumn mirage]

I had a match today on Deathslinger with a good decent meta build with best addons and i dont even got 15 matches on total on him and i got a game where i was forced to hard tunnel to get BARELY 2 kills (6 hooks) and 2 survivors escaped with 0 hooks so if i didnt tunnel i would have gotten a 4 man escape even when i did no big mistake and was using the best build doing amazing fast chases

[autumn mirage]

Yes they consider that "patrolling" being 20+ meters being consider any kind of face camping is so stupid....

[autumn mirage]

Cant you value SUCH giant 750 BP per unique hook???? You can buy almost 1 purple addon or offering with it!!!

[tawny sable]

How would yall feel about the unique hook gen kick reward being a gen block for 20 seconds instead of a basekit pop

Not game changing but it only becomes more helpful against teams you'd benefit more from tunnelling against

[tawny sable]

It'd also be an excellent source of data, if certain killers or survivors always block certain maps, that might be a sign

[autumn mirage]

Exactly

[autumn mirage]

I would honestly dont like it but better than pop, the fix would be basekit pain res

[tawny sable]

In an ideal world it'd be something that hurts SWF and gen rushing while being barely noticeable by casual players

Pain res doesn't hurt experienced survivors nearly as much as it hurts people that only touch gens once every maybe

[autumn mirage]

They should give casual players proximity chat or voice chat

Then balance around that not "closing the gap beetwen soloQ and SWFs" by making soloQ as strong as SWFs

[tawny sable]

Even at the risk of making the game even more toxic than it already is?

[autumn mirage]

Pretty much

[autumn mirage]

They need to make SWFs benefits be something not special then balance the game around expecting everyone to have them

There is not much other choice that wouldnt punish everyone or the killers

[tawny sable]

A more realistic option would be a ping system imo. Like you see in most team-based pve games

[autumn mirage]

Yeah but the issue would be time too

Even with pings the voice chat is faster and more exact most the time + can inform of things like perks and more

SWFs is so busted because knowledge is so important in gsme

[tawny sable]

Only problem is the current devs are terrified of adding voice chat

So realistically it just won't happen, at least for a few years

[autumn mirage]

Thats true they can barely handle the toxic community already lmao

Then there is no way of really balancing the game realisticly knowing how they think, they will simply buff soloQ so much with basekit that every match will be like a SWFs

[tawny sable]

Pings are probably the best first step

Since it'd be hard to be toxic with pre-written messages

[ripe bison]

According to the publicly made statistic form last week 3-4 man swfs are relatively uncommon if not just rare in the grand scheme of things

complaining about swfs is very counterproductive

[tawny sable]

MMR makes them significantly more common once you have more than 100 hours in the game

[potent stratus]

How to make a blue glow for a ghoul?

[long bay]

the only OTHER consistent way to win in high MMR is by being good enough to beat them. why does the killer deserve a win if the survs are a better team?

[reef portal]

Some killers just don't have the ability to end chases THAT quickly that they can get 12 hooks before a competent squad can pop 5 gens

The first 3 gens on most lower tier killers are pretty much instant twords the start of a match

You HAVE to snowball to win

[long bay]

can i talk to a competent killer please?

[reef portal]

?

I don't think it's a very unpopular take to say that most non high b low A tier killers or above killers tend to literally not have the chase power to be outpacing the amount of gens being popped by a squad who knows what they are doing

Hence why tunneling is such a massive strategy

Some killers don't have the chase potential to be splitting hook states that often

[long bay]

i just hear a lot of "im not any good at this killer so they is a 'low tier' killer" and im already done with you. the killers have powers. if you can only get use out of the ones that put mobility on a platter, thats on you. other powers dont help me in chase, but they still win games if i use them effectively

[reef portal]

It ain't like I'm exclusively playing blight and nurse lmfao

I mainly play doctor and deathslinger recently and I can get consistent wins with them but I can also acknowledge that most of that comes down to me snowballing

Which usually happens when the survivors do something stupid OR I am able to actually apply consistent pressure for them to make that mistake which slugging and loosely tunneling is a big part of

[void pasture]

This is genuinely a case of that one psychology thing where you give someone something absolutely awful(the first anti tunnel ptb) and when they reject it you offer them something that’s still bad, but it’s not as bad as the first thing so they think it’s actually better than it is and are more likely to accept it.

The anti tunnel changes in the first ptb of this were so god awful that now a lot of killers are seeing the fact behaviour removed the tunneling but completely ignoring the fact that bloodlust for 15 seconds that goes away when using power or entering chase isn’t gonna do shit for killers.

High mobility killers like nurse and blight will get literally no effect out if it, and low mobility killers like trapper can get value out of it, but he can’t set a trap near the hook or he loses the bloodlust and it really doesn’t do much to help him protect gens.

[polar seal]

**Best perks to use for ghost face ? **

Currently I’m using brutal strength, nowhere to hide, overcharged, monitor & abuse

[ripe bison]

Wrong channel

[long bay]

I liked the anti tunnel changes during the ptb. As killer. I really liked the line drawn at "keep it a 4v1 till at least the halfway mark" thing.
And yeah, the bloodlust goes away if you're not being useless, but it works the same way for the surv side, so... I guess that's mathematically fair
Another and. I dont think the blood points are the anti-tunnel. The elusive sounds like it will give the ability to make sure tunnelling isnt the best option unless used offensively, the first ptb tried to give some better benefits, but killers said no. So it's still going to be harder, just no benefits. But I like the camp meter, and the part if the slugging that came back.

[void pasture]

Killers didn’t say no to the benefits though they said no to the extremely unfair punishments

also the fact that the extra gen speed for survivors if someone was killed before enough hook states was fundamentally flawed

because you could hit that criteria without tunneling

so even if you didn’t tunnel, if you get a kill before the 5 hooks or 6 hooks that was required(can’t recall which number exactly it was) survivors got a huge gen speed repair buff

This also just punished a few killers for getting kills with their power like pig, onryo, pyramidhead etc

[void pasture]

If you have a mori you can meet that criteria without tunneling*

Not 100% sure if it’s possible to meet it without a mori unless you’re playing one of the aforementioned killers

Also the problem with all this is that the main reason for tunneling is to counter gen speeds being too fast sometimes

[long bay]

They specified it was for "hooks". Not states. So being left on hook, and pig traps, onryo wouldnt be affected. But yes, before they announced this, I was thinking the same thing

[void pasture]

With such hard anti tunnel like the first ptb, killers would just be forced to suck it up and lose if going against a gen efficient team and not playing a top tier killer

[long bay]

If a killer is going against a better team, they dont deserve a win

[void pasture]

It’s not even about a “better team”

it’s the fact that survivors have SO MUCH strong stuff that takes little to no effort to get value from

[long bay]

That was horribly worded. Whoever plays better... yadda yadda yadda

[void pasture]

bnp for example

takes zero skill outside of hitting a skill check(which are not even hard really) to use but it immediately applies a bit of pressure on the killer because now that gen has less progress to repair

Stypics and syringes are also wildly unhealthy for the game

[long bay]

If they stock up on strong stuff, if they are ready to win. You shouldnt be able to play a 3v1 or slug if they get the upper hand.
As a very big exception, I think slugging should be a playstyle, but you have to be set up for it. Like slugging perks that make it easier. Not as a random hail mary because you're losing

[void pasture]

Styptics less so since you can just wait out the timer fairly easily, syringes tho if you’re an m1 killer you’re not doing much against that without the survivor screwing up royally

[void pasture]

Well slugging HAS to remain a play style

unless they remove sabo’s and pallet/flash saves

because that’s the only counter to all that

[long bay]

Yes. It's about to be harder. But I'm all for perks that make it easy again

[void pasture]

also sometimes you slug because someone’s just there after you’ve downed someone, not even them necessarily going for a save but like you’re not gonna ignore the fact you’ve got someone here.

[void pasture]

You shouldn’t need extra perks to combat all that though

[long bay]

In this case, the recovery will be molasses. Until you slug multiples and stack the 33%

[void pasture]

Most things should be counterable through skill, not just by having a perk

now when it comes to the prolonged slugging that’s different

but generally speaking you can’t really take out slugging as a whole without addressing sabo stuff and the core mechanic of flash saves/pallet saves

I don’t mind what they’re doing with this ptb as far as the anti slug changes

[long bay]

Afaik, the camp meter will be exponential, but not the slug recovery

[void pasture]

I just wish the unique hook incentives was actually worth it

It’s also just a bandaid fix because instead of addressing why killers resort to tactics like tunneling and slugging, they’re just like here have protections

they’re not truly doing anything to alleviate the need to slug or tunnel

and the main reason for all that, in my experience, is gen speeds

If unique hooks gave anything to actually help defend gens, it would be worth it

still would be a bandaid fix, but at least it would be doing SOMETHING

[long bay]

Killers resort to these because they are losing. These changes should put them in a mmr that is winnable

[void pasture]

Right but the thing is it’s so easy to lose as killer

if you stay in chase for even five seconds too long on one person, that can be the end of the game for you

[long bay]

If the survs are better, yes. Yes it is

[void pasture]

dude

survivor has so much busted shit they don’t even need to actually be better

that on top of the pallet density changes, survivor is more braindead than ever. Loop tile once, hold w to next one five feet away, throw pallet, hold w to next one five feet away.

Obviously a team having more skill helps, but you don’t need a lot unless you’re facing really strong killers

[long bay]

Sounds like you could make some other decisions

[void pasture]

Alright you’re ignoring the problem on purpose atp

[long bay]

What problem?

[void pasture]

From here down. Just use your fucking eyes and read dude 😭

[long bay]

I may have been getting to it. I was working my way through the rest first

[void pasture]

As killer you can’t waste any time at all, but the issue comes when it’s so fucking easy to waste time as survivor even without skill.

[void pasture]

Right so don’t reply till you’re done reading?

[long bay]

I think my next part was "just because you cant beat these good teams, but that dont mean noone can

[void pasture]

I’m done trying to explain this to you lmfao

[long bay]

Unless the big problem is pallet density. What am I ignoring? Do you try to break all the pallets?

[void pasture]

You’re just refusing to acknowledge when things are unhealthy idk why

All behaviours been doing is coddling survivors and making the killer experience so much more frustrating

[long bay]

Things have been unhealthy for a long time. I used to be killer main. I felt bad for a lot of my matches. Now that survs have a fighting chance, itll be fun again

[void pasture]

The sheer amount of pallets on most maps now means survivors can waste your time without any skill, but that’s just one issue

[void pasture]

Not for killers

[long bay]

It's been easy for killers. Just make it a 3v1 or ignore the hooks entirely and a 13 year old could do it

[void pasture]

It shouldn’t be one side or the other is my point

but because behavior refuses to address the main reason for tunneling(gen speeds), all that’s happening is bandaid fix after bandaid fix to appease survivors

Also the biggest counter to tunneling has always been get better at looping

If you’re better at looping and you get tunneled, it’s a detriment to the killer unless you misplay terribly

[long bay]

If you're letting them sit on gens, that's on you. You dont have to chase Feng. You have a whole battlefield.

[void pasture]

Dude sometimes there’s nothing you can do

[long bay]

5 times?

[void pasture]

A lot of the time if you leave one survivor mid chase, they’re healed in 10 seconds and by the time you get in chase with someone else that first persons on a gen already

that’s not even taking into consideration gen speed perks, items and addons, survivors stacking gens etc

[long bay]

Please wait in a single file fine in front of the hook. No pushing.

[void pasture]

the way that’s not even what I’m saying but please continue being a dumbass

[void pasture]

and with the pallet density changes if you leave that first survivor, you’re just having to chew through another 5 or 6 pallets unless the one you start chasing runs to the same place you chased the first survivor

Which then becomes more time wasted even if you get the down

if you’re not playing a killer who easily ignores pallets, you’re just screwed a lot of the time

[long bay]

Lots of decisions in dbd, huh?

[void pasture]

You’re not even trying to understand atp

[long bay]

I understand

[void pasture]

Clearly not

The one thing that killers cannot do is waste time, but a lot of the time in matches no matter what you do, you’re forced into wasting time because of how much bs survivors have

[long bay]

The killer has more control over the flow of that match than you think.

[void pasture]

Not lately lmfao

some of the most busted unfair shit from survivor is vigil ghost notes(these should not be allowed to stack), sabo builds that let you sabo in between getting hit near the hook(literally nothing you can do against this when it’s done right), syringes, DS being abusable and that’s just what I can think of off the top of my head but I’m sure there’s more

all of those can be used to just waste the killers time even further with not much counterplay

[long bay]

If they are risking the good items, they are allowed to "abuse it"

[void pasture]

Absolutely not lmfao

If you’re referring to the sabo one specifically with that, there is no excuse for being able to deny the killer of a hook with no counterplay

The fact you can’t see why that’s unhealthy is truly astounding

My comment of “abusing it” was specifically regarding DS tho. It’s meant as an anti tunnel perk but so many survivors use it aggressively to force the killer into slugging them(probably running UB as well to make it a lose/lose situation) and keep the killer from going after their team.

[long bay]

And if you wanna get into "unfair perk combos" ghost notes, lightweight combo is a 3 pack. If they have that they have 1 perk to do whatever. If you know what they have, you know what they dont, and how to outplay them

[void pasture]

You can’t outplay someone who disappears mid chase lmfao

Not unless you just get lucky and catch them somewhere

It’s crazy how I’m pointing out things that are fundamentally unhealthy and you’re somehow finding excuses for them

[void pasture]

It’s why people hate players who just hide and stealth while doing gens

but never take chase

or use perks specifically to make it nearly impossible to find them to get into chase to begin with

[long bay]

It's a team game and they arent allowed to keep the team alive? If they want to use anti tunnel aggressively, why cant they trade safety for help. I hope you dont do anything aggressive as killer...

[void pasture]

“I hope you don’t do anything agressive as killer.” It is not the same at all

DS is not meant to be used in that way, it is meant to be used if you’re being tunneled

The equivalent would be a killer using a perk that’s meant for one thing but using it in an unintended way to get an advantage

You shouldn’t be allowed to use anti tunnel if you’re not actually being tunneled

[long bay]

Because I have used that specific combo a few times. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Theres nothing broken about it. I think I went against it once. They mighta died. Who knows. Scratch Mark's arent mandatory for finding people

[void pasture]

If they’re healthy they sort of are

not mandatory perse, but like it’s near impossible to track someone without anything to go off of

[long bay]

There is crows, there is auras, there is the fact that it they arent doin a gen or something, that's kinda a benefit. Can you not find gens?

[void pasture]

I was talking about when you’re in a chase

[void pasture]

and they disappear mid chase

not simply just trying to find anyone

Sure you could use aura if you’re running perks or killers with that

But not everyone is

it’s just dumb and poor game design to have a core mechanic of the game so easily nullified

Anyways I’m too tired to keep going, you clearly aren’t ever going to understand why these things are problematic so it’s not worth my time

Have a good night

[long bay]

You should get better at chase. When I first started, I ran huntress with no hatchets until I could 4k. When I got to other killers, they could zoom. You learn what survs can do, and you learn what survs do

[void pasture]

Conversation is over, drop it

[long bay]

Yes sir

[gilded imp]

yeah... like these incentives might as well not exist they do so little

[misty yew]

Okay, honest question. Bhvr themselves stated by their own metric that 8-24 meters is considered proxy camping, (using this little chart from the stream). So, are they admitting face camping ain't a problem and are changing the complaints to include proxy camping, since by their own definition it doesn't make sense to call it that?

[viral turtle]

now proxy camping is unfair according to them

atp let survivors have basekit deliverance

[misty yew]

I know it's become a meme at this point but I'd pay real money to see the devs play killer against a competent survivor team. Not even competitive, just competent.

[dusty edge]

@queen tinsel 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[gilded imp]

hope that behavior consider giving killers actual benefits to unique hooks

[dusty edge]

@stray pelican 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@fading mesa 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@fervent haven 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[shadow oriole]

Hey guys! I’ve got one DBD account but can’t buy Auric Cells on it, so I’m making a new one. Planning to get killers on discount — which ones are best perk-wise? I’m thinking Cannibal and Chucky. I already have PH, Nemesis, and most shard killers on my main. Any recommendations? Thanks!

[river vault]

k

[autumn mirage]

stalks you into exposed

[autumn mirage]

Cannibal isnt that good anymore only good one is BBQ, Chucky is good for Friends, Nemesis for Lethal and eruption, Xeno for rapid and ultimate weapon, Freddy for blood warden or fire up or the other gate perk and even Demo is good for Surge on some killers or Pig for example for her surveillance and make your choice perks even tho not as good

[shadow oriole]

And for fun gameplay?

[autumn mirage]

I recommend getting Nemesis for lethal, Demo for surge and a personal favorite is Pig make your choice since insentivates you togo after the unhooker

[shadow oriole]

Igot ph And neme

Im creating new acc tho, u think i should buy reg dbd for 7.99 or Halloween ed for 10.78

@autumn mirage

[autumn mirage]

I only buy killers directly so cant tell you

[dusty edge]

@hearty wadi 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[lyric sand]

What does this mean?

[autumn mirage]

From currency in game

Not from steam

[knotty relic]

<@&480465015267262484>

[dusty edge]

✅➡️ Banned wayhoo. with reason Compromised Account
(1 ban(s) on record | 1 total logs)

[potent stratus]

When will the PTB be?

[subtle fiber]

next week's Tuesday

[fierce creek]

DS is what it is, it is used for what people use it for. Who are you to define what DS is used for

the tool is what it is, people choose what to use the tool for and how to use it.

Thats basics of good game design, freedom of skill expression

The devs only need to balance the uses if the such uses feel that they have no counterplay or way to strong. They should not be limiting player creativity artificially otherwise.

[void pasture]

I’m not one to define it, the devs are. They added it to the game as anti tunnel, not as an offensive weapon.

[fierce creek]

they added it to the game that's it, not as an anti anything, the perks are no defined on release into categories

they are just released and people use them for what people wanna use them

[void pasture]

Well no

[fierce creek]

Well yes

[void pasture]

Nope

[fierce creek]

who are you or any1 to define what the community uses the perk for?

[void pasture]

I already explained it dumbass

[fierce creek]

and if the devs disagreed with the use they would have nerfed it even more

[void pasture]

I’m not, the devs are. They added it to the game to help against tunneling.

Using it for anything else is abusing it and not how it was intended to be used

[fierce creek]

Lmao, do you think killers dotn do the same>?

[void pasture]

I never claimed they didn’t but this conversation isn’t about killers

[fierce creek]

like you have to be doing it or porpuse, there's is multiple killer perks that are for something and can also be used for something else

[fierce creek]

you did, you talked about killers right after your take on DS

[void pasture]

Idk why you’re deflecting so hard rn lmfao

[fierce creek]

deflecting on what? I am all for perk creativity

and its a think that should be encouraged

[void pasture]

Yes because I was explaining what the killer equivalent would be because someone was trying to claim it was something else..

[fierce creek]

on either side, as long as it is not so broken that needs nerfs its a good thing

[void pasture]

I’m talking about how ds is being abused by being used for something it wasn’t intended for a you go “but but killers do it too!!!” That’s just deflection

[fierce creek]

they are absolutly not problematic, problematic would be one dimensional perks that leave no open room for creative uses

[fierce creek]

no, I am saying that ds being used for something that was not the design intention behind it its not a bad thing. Its a good one

[void pasture]

oh my god dude use your brain

[fierce creek]

LMAO

[void pasture]

I’m referring to this comment

This was just deflection because this wasn’t about what killers do or don’t do

I never claimed killers didn’t do the same thing

[fierce creek]

yes because you on your rly said "it was if like killers did this" implying that killers dont already have similar things

[void pasture]

Do you know how to read

[fierce creek]

I do, maybe you dont

[void pasture]

Because I was correcting someone with that

[fierce creek]

That is not relevant, that is not even the point of why I started this conversation

now who is deflecting?

[void pasture]

Correcting someone = deflecting???

[fierce creek]

you think that creative uses of perks is bad, I think they are good talk about that point

[void pasture]

Mind you you’re the one who changed the topic from DS to killers

tried to claim I was implying something when I wasn’t. God forbid I correct your ass.

[fierce creek]

mind you, you already clarified what you meant when you said "The equivalent would be a killer using a perk that’s meant for one thing but using it in an unintended way to get an advantage"

I dont know why you keep going back to that point

[void pasture]

I think that abusing perks by using them for somethin they aren’t intended to be used for is bad

[fierce creek]

how? why?

[void pasture]

Right that wasn’t me saying or implying killers don’t do that though

[fierce creek]

why do you think being creative with the game mechanics is bad?

I think it provides less burnout, and makes the game less stale creativity is a great thing for games

[void pasture]

Because you’re giving yourself an unfair advantage??? Are you naturally this stupid or do you have to practice it?

[fierce creek]

🤦‍♂️

[void pasture]

Abusing DS to use it as a weapon forces the killer to waste time and chase you if you do it right, but they can’t even pick you up so it’s just a wasted chase.

The only counterplay is slugging but as we’ve seen, survivors are whiny crybabies when you do that even for a valid reason

[fierce creek]

not only are you extremely rude, you cant hold a conversation for shit, there is nothing inherently unfair about being creative but I will stop this conversation because I will be honest, you are one of the stupidest people I have the pleasure of talking to on this discord, and from this simple interaction I understand that your life must be hell, since living with such low intelligence can only be pain, have a good day

[void pasture]

sure buddy

you kept deflecting from the point and made untrue claims but I’m the stupid one, yea sure lmfao

[fierce creek]

no I didnt

I talked about something, you clarified it I moved on

thats was all, you were the one going back to it

[void pasture]

Yea you did. You literally went “but what about killers doing it.” when that wasn’t the point, that’s deflection. You then tried to say that I implied killers didn’t do it when I never did. That was all you and your doing, not mine.

[fierce creek]

ye I said that once in regard to your "The equivalent would be a killer using a perk that’s meant for one thing but using it in an unintended way to get an advantage", you clarified what you meant, I moved on

you are the one that keeps going back to it as a gatcha when that is not even the point of the argument

[void pasture]

that’s not what I’m doing at all but keep being stupid if you want

[fierce creek]

holy shit, you are an idiot arent you? Why do you keep going back to that instead of talking about the actual argument?

[void pasture]

God forbid I respond to something you say 💀

[fierce creek]

you keep responding to it, over and over again

you already responded to it, I already agreed with your response, but you keep going back to it

[void pasture]

When did you ever agree with my response? All I say was you saying it wasn’t relevant.

[fierce creek]

I tought you were implying killers dont have similar things, you said you werent, I understood and moved on

you keep going back to it, over and over and over again

[void pasture]

You immediately proceeded to claim it wasn’t relevant. How is that agreeing??

[fierce creek]

it is not relevant, like at all, what does that have to do with "I think creative uses of perks is good" argument, if I say something you clarify it and I move on instead of arguing the same point, that is agreeing with your conclusion and moving on to the actual point, I never wanted to argue if you think killers have the same or not, that was never my argument, I stated my argument right at the start, you keep going back to the other conversation because you cant talk about the actual argument

instead of throwing random jabs and missing the point talk about the actual point, that creative uses are good for games

[void pasture]

That’s not how agreeing works.

That’s simply ignoring it and moving on, not the same as agreeing.

[fierce creek]

yes man keep going back to it, dont talk about the actual point

agreeing with what exactly also? Like you said "The equivalent would be a killer using a perk that’s meant for one thing but using it in an unintended way to get an advantage" I took it as you implying that killers dont have the same thing, you clarified that you didnt want to imply that it was just an example

what do you want me to say then?

[void pasture]

Creative use is fine if said use isn’t bad. “Creatively using” something in a way it wasn’t intended to give yourself an unfair advantage is not a good thing, regardless of what side is doing it.

[fierce creek]

you said you didnt want to imply it, alright then we move on

[void pasture]

“My bad, I misunderstood.” Or literally any other reply that actually shows you understood after I clarified???

[fierce creek]

Creativily using something is good, if its an "unfair advantage" and makes balance bad for one side it needs to be nerfed by devs, something that is not the case at all for DS

DS is strong, meta even, but good players are not using it offensively at all, since its rly bad in such uses. Its power comes from insurence

So the problem is not about using perks creatively, its if that creativity breaks game balance, which is not the case

[void pasture]

Clearly neither of us is going to agree so this conversation is a waste of time

[fierce creek]

🤣

you are only not agreeing with me because you are to bias about the subject

[void pasture]

whatever you say dude

[fierce creek]

let me ask you, do you think public matches are killer or survivor sided?

[void pasture]

I think that right now it’s more survivor sided due to the pallet density update. Prethrowing and holding w is stronger than ever now because every map is effectively Gideon’s in terms of pallets.

Thats not saying that every match will be a win for survivors, or that it’s impossible for killers, just that with the changes they’re doing it is becoming much easier for survivors and giving them even more tools to use that they didn’t need.

Prior to the pallet density change, I would’ve said it was whoever brought the best stuff and tried the hardest. With all the extra pallets everywhere now, that only gets you so far as killer.

[fierce creek]

So you think the game is survivor sided, but killers have hit an all time high 63% average kill rate, how do you think that is?

Game is survivor sided, but killers win a lot more on average and have positive w/l ratio across all MMRs and party sizes

[void pasture]

Probably because a lot are tunneling and slugging

[fierce creek]

So if you use tunneling and slugging the game is killer sided? or what do you mean by that?

[void pasture]

No I mean they’re probably getting a higher average kill rate because they’re using those strategies which often help in getting kills

[fierce creek]

okay but they are still winnign ALOT more than they are losing, how can the game be survivor sided when survivors lose most of the time

[void pasture]

Does that statistic take into account the survivors who give up at the earliest inconvenience?

[fierce creek]

the statistic is what it is, some survivors give up at the earliest inconvenience because the game feels hopeless, do you think they would win most of those games that feel hopeless if they didnt give up? Some killers also give up when the game goes south

[void pasture]

My point was that if it includes games where survivors gave up, that would inflate the kill rate unnaturally.

Killers in those games wouldn’t be getting kills because it’s killer sided or because they did better, but because the survivors gave up. It would be a skewed statistic.

[fierce creek]

the statistic shows the reality, and the reality is that killers win a lot more than they lose, do you think that is only because of one side giving up a lot more than the other or what?

[void pasture]

I didn’t say it’s only because of that, I said that that could be making it higher than it actually is.

[fierce creek]

a lot of things skew the statistic, some to one side some to the other, that is not a valid reason to completly disregard it

hatch artificially skews the statistic down as well

[void pasture]

I’m disregarding it because kills that happen due to survivors giving up at the first inconvenience do not provide any meaningful data on whether its killer sided or not.

[fierce creek]

my point is, the game is not survivor sided, killers win a lot more, soloq is extremely hard to play because of no communication, even high mmr SWFs lose more than they win, there'e not a single metric that shows that the game is survivor sided

[void pasture]

Like if survivors load in, see it’s a ghoul, immediately give up and dc or throw themselves at the killer, those kills shouldn’t be included within the kill rate, at least not in regards to whether the games killer sided or not.

[fierce creek]

do you believe that if we ignored those games where people give up at 5 gens because of the killer or at minor inconveniences the game would have a escape rate over 50%?

[void pasture]

I can’t say what the rate would be if we ignored those, only that it would be more accurate.

[fierce creek]

I think every game that people give up early, is offset by the fact that hatch allows a pity escape a lot of the times too

okay but how can you say the game is survivor sided, where there's not a single metric that supports that claim?

statistics say other wise, top player metrics say otherwise

[tall prawn]

people with the go next mentality and dcing heavily inflate the statistics we have

[fierce creek]

do you have actual proof? do you have numbers? go next is a thing for both sides and again there's already a game mechanic that heavily skews kill rates down

I am not saying its not a thing, I am saying it does not inpact the statistic enough to still not show a killer sided balance

[tall prawn]

how can you say proof is needed it is such a common thing to see ingame you cant even deny it lol

[void pasture]

To be fair you’ve not provided any either. You’ve given numbers but no sources. Not saying you’re wrong on those numbers but you can’t clown someone for not providing proof when you haven’t really given any either.

[fierce creek]

the numbers are public but I will go get them

[tall prawn]

and sure it goes both ways but one side is way more common than the other

[fierce creek]

so not even half the games get all 5 gens repaired

[fierce creek]

okay then let me ask you, do you think that if we ignored all those game but we also ignored escapes by hatch, the statictics would show an over 50% kill rate or lower?

also the number for party sizes

[tall prawn]

around 50% for sure, hatch escapes have less of an impact

[void pasture]

I think a big part of that is solo q being solo q in so far as survivors seem to do fuck all during the match

Lots of games when I play solo q survivor, if I’m looping the killer and doing well, for whatever reason gen movement is way slower than it should be.

[fierce creek]

every single people evidence is anecdotal since you can rly only talk about what you experience, but I will talk about mine, I consider myself a pretty good player, I play both sides around 40/60. Playing killer I am mad if I lose, losing is so rare, if you play meta shit which I do on both sides, killer feels a lot stronger

[fierce creek]

that is just not relevant at all, soloq feels like that because the mmr system is awful and the communication is impossible.

that dosent mean that soloq balance should be ignored

[tall prawn]

so you play meta for killer alright very interesting

[fierce creek]

I play meta for both

[tall prawn]

i can see why you say the things you say now

[fierce creek]

I play dh/ds/shoulder/resi every game on survivor, and ruin,pain res, corrupt eruption on killer

and I only play top killers ofc, but that is the thing, if you play bad killers it would be the equivalent of me playing bad builds on survivors

[void pasture]

I think every killer should have a fighting chance against the meta

[fierce creek]

no one is winning with no mither, just how people dont win with hag

that is a choice you make on playing non meta

[fierce creek]

do you also think every survivor perk should have a chance against the meta?

[void pasture]

Well no but there’s a big difference between killers and survivor perks

[fierce creek]

maybe, but killers build expression comes from more than just perks, comes from addons and from what killer they are playing, survivors can only express their builds with perks

[tall prawn]

meta survivor perks give a better advantage than meta killer perks

[void pasture]

Losing because you’re running a meme build as survivor vs losing because the killer your playing isn’t designed to face the shit survivors have is two very different things

[fierce creek]

ofc they do, its pretty obvious why, survivors only have perks, killers have powers and perks

[fierce creek]

is it tho? Losing because you’re running a meme killer vs losing because the build your playing isn’t designed to face the shit killers have is two very different things

[void pasture]

No killer is a meme killer

[fierce creek]

your argument works both ways.

[fierce creek]

in an ideal world maybe, but in an ideal world no build is a meme build, no perk is a meme perk

[tall prawn]

you will struggle if you're not playing a meta killer at higher mmr and thats a fact, survivors have way more tools at their disposal the only reason youd win as killer is because they played bad

[fierce creek]

but then again, the biggest enemy of shit killers its not the survivors builds, its the strong killers

strong killers make it that weak killers have to stay opressed

this is imo a big issue and one of the main reason why killer players think the game is not killer sided, even with all the evidence it is

[dusty edge]

@wanton pagoda 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[fierce creek]

if nurse or blight werent so strong, killers like hag or sm would get to shine with better buffed perks

[tall prawn]

those statistics are your evidence?

[fierce creek]

those statistics and my own anecdotal evidence that match's the statistics

you are only looking at it from the point of the non meta killer

[tall prawn]

which is majority of killers...

[void pasture]

well thats just not true

[fierce creek]

look at it from any other point, survivors face a lot more blights or ghouls than they do hags or most shit killers

[void pasture]

plenty of builds are meme builds

[tall prawn]

not everyone wants to force themselves to play the meta killers to win

[fierce creek]

is it? the most played killers are all kinda good

[void pasture]

for both killer and survivor

[tall prawn]

jeez i wonder why

[fierce creek]

I know why, but that was not the point, you said that the majority of players play shit killers, and they dont

most people play what is strong

or at least what is decent

[tall prawn]

so every game is a nurse and blight game is it?

[void pasture]

we have already seen that the devs acknoledge some killers are higher tier than others with the first anti tunnel/slug ptb, higher tier killers had less effective buffs from the unique hook system. Knowing they can tailor these things to specific killers means that they could easily offer an incentive for unique hooks that is different for each killer. Someone like blight wouldn't need as big of an incentive as someone like hag for example.

[fierce creek]

that is not what I said, but a lot of them are, a lot more games are blight or ghoul then they are hag or skull merchant

[void pasture]

which would then address the issue of some killers not being designed to be able to combat the meta\

[tall prawn]

and why do you think that is? you also chose the worst two bad killer examples for this, those are obvious choices

[fierce creek]

sure, but thats what they should be focused on, making the killer roster's power level more uniform

because thats the main root of all problems

[void pasture]

finally we agree on something

[fierce creek]

that and shit mmr

[fierce creek]

I choose the weakest 2, it was not random, there's no weaker killers imo than sm and hag

[tall prawn]

of course you'd see a blight or ghoul more than those two, but youre also proving my point, people are forcing themselves more and more to play meta killers because if you dont youll get absolutely destroyed

[fierce creek]

okay but how is that relevant to the game being one or the other sided?

[tall prawn]

i never started that debate did i?

[fierce creek]

you cant just look at shit killers when you answer that question

[tall prawn]

i came in making a different point

[fierce creek]

I know you didnt, I am not saying you did, I am just showing how its not fair to just look at the shit killers when talking about balance

[tall prawn]

i mentioned shit killers because they are a good portion of games

lots of people playing meta killers are also inflated since theyre just playing them to stand a chance

[fierce creek]

Yes ofc they are, but that dosent change the fact that survivors have to go against them most of the time

so as a survivor player you play most of the time against very strong killers

and you lose most of the time

and statistic show it

but weak killer players still came out and talk how the game is so survivor sided this and that

no, the game is strong killer sided, very, then comes every1 else

strong killers dominate, hard

[dusty edge]

@sullen gyro 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[tall prawn]

what does survivors going against them matter? as said before survivors have more tools at their disposal winning is way easier than it is a killer, getting a 4k is only because the survivors played bad

there was also a thing recently where a dbd content creator where he and his friends did all 5 gens and escape within ~2 minutes each time consistently, no matter the map or killer, even the meta ones

the same picture being painted everytime proves my point that the only reason you won as a killer is because the survivors played bad

[fierce creek]

"there was also a thing recently where a dbd content creator where he and his friends did all 5 gens and escape within ~2 minutes each time consistently, no matter the map or killer, even the meta ones" this is completly irrelevant, I can show you a killer main that goes on 1k+ win streaks and win most game swith 4-5 gens up and game end in like 3-4 mins

also why is it than when the killer wins is because the survivors played bad, but when the killer loses is not because he played bad?

survivors have tools to win like killers tho, a blight has all the tools he needs to win every game, the survivors playing good or bad

[tall prawn]

survivors have more tools at their disposal, simple 🤷‍♂️ and again, they only won because the survivors played bad

[fierce creek]

quantity dosent mean strength, just because survivors have more different builds in reality only 1 build is rly meta, and a 2nd one kinda close, anti tunnel and gen rushing, everything else is garbage, and killers also have multiple effective ways to play the game, you can tunnel some1 out asap, hold a 3 gen to delay the game, play end game build w/e

thinking you can only win on killer if the survivors played bad is not only not true at all its also a massive loser mentality

[tall prawn]

if anyone is soloq sure, your chances of winning as killer is highly increased, but against a coordinated 4man swf that knows what they're doing, you are NOT winning no matter how hard you try

[fierce creek]

solo q is most of the playerbase, by a lot, but even then, even top mmr swfs have negative winrates, you also have to look at the game in general not only the one way you think you should. The game is not just swf vs killer, not even close, thats barely 10% of the games

its rly convenient to only look at how 11% of the games are played while ignoring the big 41% chunk there that doesn't fit the narrative

[dusty edge]

@harsh raft 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[ripe bison]

Ive beaten 4 mans as trapper and according to official data the VAST majority of players are solo

[tall prawn]

theres a difference between a 4 man and a coordinated 4 man that knows what theyre doing

[ripe bison]

Coordinated 4 mans are so rare they arent an issue

Also these people were corrdinated

Just teenagers her werent great

[ripe bison]

Wrong channel

[shut pelican]

oops

[slow venture]

Is trickster’s rework gonna be in the next ptb?

[native aspen]

Unlikely

[autumn mirage]

And i havent even played him to this day

I should ngl

[ebon quest]

When is the next ptb

[native aspen]

Scheduled for November 4th

[autumn mirage]

Your cat looks shy

[dusty edge]

@normal parrot 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[dusty edge]

@wraith bronze 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@drifting oriole 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[dusty edge]

@agile parrot 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

@sullen gyro 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[raven flume]

what lol

what does this have to with with any ptbs

sowwy i’m at work

[upbeat panther]

a good nurse its so rare that arent a issue

do you think how stupid that sound?

[ripe bison]

Fair

Still, point is that it isn't as visibly a problem as people tend to say it is

It is also a problem I don't believe there is truly any possible asnwer for

Being able to communicate as effectively as you can with a four player coms group is something that just isn't avoidable.

Unless the remove the ability to play togather with friends in a group larger than like two or something which is stupid

Frankly I would say it is comparable to people using reshade to cheat

Only what is being used for it is something that could never ever be blocked without immense problems

[upbeat panther]

In my opinion, they should add more and more options to make solo queue feel more and more like group play, whether through commands (killer is missing, I'm with the killer, I'm repairing, on my way...) or by giving more info to the whole group, like the recent addition of the anti-camp bar.

Once all these changes are in place, they should start balancing the game around them: get rid of that nonsense about pallet density, realize that giving a 30-second survival endurance will encourage players to tank hits instead of running away, etc.

But honestly, with the latest comments and changes that BHVR has made, I'm very convinced that they're not playing their own game; they're just making changes based on statistics they get from surveys, super survis, and so on.

[ripe bison]

Idk dude

Theres deffinitely a line

Behavior adding in features for that has been great but like

survivors are given limited information for a reason

and theres a reason 4 man swf who are all really good can effectively decimate lobbies

Its a good thing but there has to be a line

[upbeat panther]

I don't see it that way. In that sense, the game rewards playing with others, while punishing solo players. This doesn't happen in other games, and BHVR makes changes trying to give solo players a better chance, without realizing that the collateral damage is making SFW increasingly difficult to play against.

[ripe bison]

Vast majority of the playerbase is solo though

ok not what I mean

The central reason groups over coms are better is specifically because of the value of coms

coms which decimate aspects of the game by design

shit Idk how to word myself

struggling to tie my points togather

[ripe bison]

I don't see what Behavior is doing in an attempt to give solo players a chance which backfires in buffing SFW

Behavior deffinitely unintentionally buffs SWF but its not related to "giving solo a chance"

Like Shoulder the Burden was intented to be a tool to counter tunneling in general but backfired because of coordinated coms

[upbeat panther]

What do you think Behavior is trying to do? I mean, aside from the obvious attempt to punish the "evil killer" (Isn't a killer supposed to be evil?)

[ripe bison]

I think theyre staring at their statistics in a stupid manner

on top of a mess of information from a lot of loud and incoherent tribalists and clear problems within management

In the recent stream they stated that according to their statistics, like 30% of players are getting tunneled out

or 30% of games idr

Which is pretty ridiculous, and I have to wonder: how are they calculating this? What criteria counts towards tunnel?

They also say that face camping hasnt really changed since the anticamp was added. Where are these stats from? Like genuinely where the hell are they from?

Theres also the recently released stats on kill and generator completion rates

Which paint the picture of killers actually doing pretty well

but is obviously a global check going back a long ways in time

Behavior (or at least portions of/different design teams) appear to overvalue the concept of 1 for 1 balancing

if one things gets a boost then it must have a down

At least now they are trying to explain their logic behind things

But there still a lack of understanding as to why they think some of their ideas are actually not stupid

[dusty edge]

@spiral gorge 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[slim glade]

What is ptb

[misty yew]

It's kinda hard to tell at times if they're just genuinely clueless or just outright lie.

Not about the statistics inherently, but on things in general, like how they admitted they couldn't figure out why the game has such a high slug rate, the chat spamming pallets as a way to tell them it's cause of all the pallet saves, and them still not getting it. I'm not saying they do it on purpose, but at times it really does feel like they don't know what to do with their own data that they swear by.

[ripe bison]

Public Test Build. Its essentially an optional version of the game they put out for a week or two on PC for players to test out upcoming content or proposed changes.

[slim glade]

ohh i see