ptb-discussion

[autumn mirage]

"they are making things better all the time."

Thats what i hate, we should expect improvement not just say any change is better even if it makes things worst since we get given good stuff but why should we be happy for walking 2 step forwards while also walking 3 back not every change is an improvement and we need to be able to say it and complain about it so they can know it wasnt a good thing and they can learn too

[flat cobalt]

Well to me that’s not a reasonable perspective and doesn’t have much insight to lives of the people who code and develop your game

You cannot expect changes to be good on release they need to be tested an tuned

[normal perch]

Does the clown change + reload speed buff mean it's worth it to perma yellow bottle yourself for map mobility now

[autumn mirage]

My man they have been developing this game for 9 YEARS, this game didnt release last year we can expect them to have some knowledge and learn after almost a decade this is not even an Indie game made by 2 people

[flat cobalt]

That’s how it works in any game you cannot expect them to get it right on try 1 and then trying and being fast and receptive is about the most you could ask for imo

[sage carbon]

the problem i was talking about was that turrels give information even if xeno isn't using his control stations

[autumn mirage]

If you got hundreds of hours on the game in any side you will not have as hard of a time starting the other side, you play survivors so you know the survivor tricks or strats or how they loop so when you play killer you know how they act or what you would do and also just because someone got 100P doesnt make them best players, i find many times P100 players worst than others on same team with 2-5 prestiges

[past cairn]

LAST STAND SHOULD BE EXHAUSTION PERK

[flat cobalt]

Again I don’t even know that’s where they balance this is not a game like StarCraft they may in fact care more about the 50 percentile than the top 10% I don’t I he what those marketing strategy is but as a casual I’m glad they don’t focus on the sweat side so idk

[autumn mirage]

You can counter most killers who hit over pallets or window easily, just because a killer can do that doesnt make them strong or easy to win, huntress gets counter by shack a lot for example or short loops with walls, nemesis got a big start on his attack so they can just walk to you so you cant aim and they dont get hit, Wesker you can play around him not walking straight and more

[flat cobalt]

I play a player made game made by 1 guy it’s a map mod for 28 year old game

[autumn mirage]

Dude i have find P100 that DC in first hook, you are just thinking bigger numbers make them 100 times better when is not that with every P100

[flat cobalt]

The last time they updated it the people rage that the developer could not see that his update would imbalance one unit and he quit working on the map from the hate. To me their expectations were not reasonable to them he had ruined their thing.

So I understand your perspective I just don’t agree at all

[autumn mirage]

you cant camp for the hook anticamp mechanic, if you stay around 30 meters of hook the other 3 survivors can just repair quick the rest of gens in the time the hooked dies so they easily escape, you can loop literally any killer in game including Nurse even if you need to mindgame the loops and more

[ruby gust]

This argument is about the same as seeing someone complain about Kaneki and going "Okay but don't you know about Nurse? She's way more busted"

Just because one thing is more broken doesn't mean you ignore the thing that is also broken

[autumn mirage]

This is the worst take i have ever found on killers....

[autumn mirage]

Dude is their JOB, this is not just a hobby or they are indie they live from this and have been doing it for years your perspective is not reasonable

[flat cobalt]

Again the way you speak reminds me of anyone I’ve ever spoken to with a very competive mindset in a game. What you have said will never be relevant to any game I’m in on surv as I’m not that high level and while don’t win every game I beat people who have your level of knowledge and understanding as a noob in the regular as killer . I can’t do this on surv at all so idk

Like any other game I play follows a set pattern

[autumn mirage]

i never said changes on release, we got PTB to test things, they can fix things a week later or even just a month later but they havent been doing that many times they do many good changes while also many bad ones

[flat cobalt]

If I have many reps I can gain mastery and get better in Thai game have I have significantly less reps as killer with a significantly better result

[autumn mirage]

Have i ever said i want them to get on on 1 try?

[flat cobalt]

No but that’s the vibe of your comment they are too slow with thier fixing and in my mind as someone who plays games who don’t any updates for years they don’t do bad

[autumn mirage]

This isnt about the swets, literally if you make it so any tryhard can make the rest of players have the most boring and annoying time playing new players will simply leave since they dont have fun and just get destroyed without fun, changing the balance help both for new players, low levels so they can have a chance to learn or play and the top

[flat cobalt]

I play a game that’s been in alpha over 9 years and has pay to win items for hundreds of dollars and client side hacks

[ruby gust]

Fun fact did you know the intended killrate for every killer is actually 60% so no matter what level you're at as a survivor, you should be losing about slightly less than 50% of the time?
I could probably beat KnightLight with enough luck if he was drunk and blind and deaf but it doesn't make me as good as a comp player
You're just saying anything not focusing on the fact that it is their full time job
Do you go to a bank and if they fuck up the balance on your account you go "Well it's very stressful to fix banking issues so likeeeee"

[flat cobalt]

Like this games much better than any of those lol

I’m not even sure what balance your talking about but I find the game fun and think they do a good job you have more time invested so perhaps have a higher standard

[ruby gust]

I play a game that's been in open beta for 12 years, has a dev team significantly smaller than BHVR's, and still manages to balance itself way better than this
It's literally just an issue of either incompetence or negligence

I too can say things anecdotally, it doesn't matter

[flat cobalt]

So I don’t think it needs balance changes but from my perspective as a solo que player killer is much eiser perhaps in vc group it’s more balanced but no I think the gels fine I didn’t think they need to nerf killers just since I can win with less loop skill or camera skills

[autumn mirage]

So your logic for not critizing any mistake that Behaviour makes is the case of one bad situation? really?

A. Behaviour is not an indie game made by a single person

B. Behaviour have gotten years and years to do stuff while even if there is backlash people keep playing

C. Behaviour can have different teams for different stuff

D. literally no matter the game there will be always people raging for something, is not something you can control or change is how it is for bad and good

[ruby gust]

Isn't BHVR a company of like over a thousand people

[flat cobalt]

No I read most your posts and as an old man who’s 37 I feel like I’m speaking to someone younger who is more invested in the game than me and as such has more in knowledge but also more bias and emotional attachment

[ruby gust]

The way you speak makes me really believe you cannot be older than like 17

[autumn mirage]

so your argument is i remind you of other people so nothing i say matters and my opinion is not valid because... because you say? there are literally countless people who can say the same or people who say they tried DBD and left because of this issues and more also i dont even play competitive i literally use lightborn and iron grasp always for fun

[flat cobalt]

I have a son who turns 15 on Saturday lol

I’m not making an argument I’m speaking my mind

[autumn mirage]

You seriously believe taking up to years to fix a single thing is not slow? and i am not even talking about a killer rework but a single perk or game breaking bugs

also "thats the vibe of your comment" so you put words in my mouth because you feel like is what i would say?

[flat cobalt]

Again the way your rephrase what I say is so distracting that I cannot even focus on the context I become fixated on how it’s not how an adult in good faith speaks about things it’s how someone who is emotionally attached and frustrated speaks about things

[autumn mirage]

man just saying "well is not as bad at this other game who is the worst thing ever so you should just suck up any problem and be grateful is not this other thing" is literally like saying "well they kick you but be grateful they didnt stab you!"

[flat cobalt]

Which to me speaks to bias and despite much more knowledge that is wasted as your too attached to speak without emotion clouding your judgement

[autumn mirage]

asking for the game to be able to improve and have them be able to fix mistakes down the road without taking years or not repeating same mistakes from past is literally reasonable

[flat cobalt]

It’s not this game tho I see many People with this perspective in many games so I don’t fault you I just don’t think your going to understand me here

[ruby gust]

Asking BHVR to fix anything is completely unreasonable because if they fix a single Twins bug the game implodes

[flat cobalt]

I mean I don’t think it is but again that’s from the devs perspective not the players

[autumn mirage]

Also they have been doing it for 9 years, he is acting like we DBD released last year or a month ago and that we are just crazy expectations

[flat cobalt]

That’s seems like a hyperbolic statement much like them it into make some think too attached to see clearly from all perspectives

[autumn mirage]

and the game is a huge sucess in money and players, we are just asking the minimun and improvement over the time (9 years so far)

[ruby gust]

Dude shut the fuck up if you're just going to hone in on "Ermmm you sound a little emotional" instead of actually trying to engage with any point being made
You are not in good faith speaking to any of the points being made and instead resorting to "Heh, emotional children" because you have nothing to say that actually contradicts any point being made

[snow berry]

holy nerd yap

[autumn mirage]

I am fan of Fear & Hunger game which is indie made by a single person and that released a sequel he updates to this day and he has been doing it for 6 years, the game got bugs or some issue but he constantly takes time to change them and leave game on best state he can + he is aware of the game working and how to play it since he made it, also he doesnt even know how to code he uses RPGmaker

[flat cobalt]

Well I played at start and again now and to me it’s better than it was then and still lots did in tho the community is now less casual and more min max so understand that from where I’m sitting the shift to comp in general is about the only thing I have not liked coming back. And that’s not in them that’s a players thing and it’s not just this game it’s a trend across many games. So my wants and desires are not the skew as yours. To me making small changes that make unmake talents usable are just a good as fixing things dominate a Top players meta

[autumn mirage]

Saying that the game is finally balanced if you play SWF is the peak of irony...

[flat cobalt]

Reported

[ruby gust]

BHVR has like over 1200 employees which makes them one of if not THE biggest devs in Canada, they have more than enough people to focus on fixing things and it's not a strange or wild expectation to have them fix literally anything in this game

[autumn mirage]

which sucessful DLCs they keep selling and huge licenses from different horror movies, videogames and now even anime

[snow berry]

zip up bhvrs pants when ur done lil bro

[ruby gust]

I love how I can tell you just didn't read a word I said and auto replied because your message has no relation to what I said even remotely

[autumn mirage]

My man i literally play it on some free day a few hours then go and play something else or do uni stuff, i am literal casual i dont even got 300 hours on game

[flat cobalt]

I did not you were rude and speak in a way that’s not acceptable in a public space so I will ignore and report you

[ruby gust]

I wasn't talking to you man

[autumn mirage]

He constantly brings up being 37, that we dont know how good we have it because "well this game could be like that other trash, be grateful of what you got", says that what we say doesnt matter and we dont got a voice and treats Behaviour like an indie that barely released

[flat cobalt]

Oh then why is the balance so important if you didn’t care so much who wins

[ruby gust]

Report me sure, but if you genuinely think a company of over 1200 people cannot dedicate the time and effort to fixing a game that they've worked on for 9 years and has made them millions because uwu it's stressful then you have no knowledge or interest in the gaming industry or how development works at all

[snow berry]

u told them to "shut the fuck up" when they did nothing to u and then u went on to suck off bhvrs glizzy

[autumn mirage]

good? i dont get how this matters at all, we arent talking about your son

[flat cobalt]

I don’t know but you keep reminding me of him lol

[ruby gust]

"they have more than enough people to focus on fixing things and it's not a strange or wild expectation to have them fix literally anything in this game" are you braindead? I literally called them incompetent like 10 minutes ago as well

[snow berry]

aint reading allat

[autumn mirage]

"is not how an adult in good faith speaks about things"

No way you are trying to say this as argument and to dissmis all i say

[flat cobalt]

This is what I mean tho it’s not an argument I’m simply speaking I don’t one why you want to argue about things I’m simply giving my opinion on how I see things

[ruby gust]

If you want to give your opinion, shockingly people are going to respond and tell you their own opinion and why you're wrong on an objectively incorrect statement

[autumn mirage]

I mean i am not the one bringing unrelated stuff to the discussion of the game, trying to say i speak on bad faith and saying i am too invested each time you can

[flat cobalt]

I’m not I say what I think as I think it lol

When I read what your wrote that is what I thought

[autumn mirage]

"you wouldnt get it"

you keep trying to act like you are right but no one will get it but you still right... lol

[flat cobalt]

I don’t act I speak my thoughts as I think them

It’s an adhd thing I don’t really think then speak I type as I’m thinking the thought

[autumn mirage]

okay first of all describe hyperbolic statement without googling it and second explain how what i say is a hyperbolic statement, if you wanna go play with words show you know what it even means

[flat cobalt]

Hyperbolic just means very exaggerated

And it’s a very normal word used all the time lol

[autumn mirage]

i am constantly explaining why their reasoning doesnt apply and just get told that i dont get it, bringed up other games as "those are worst, be happy with this", that i am attachted, etc but i am the one talking in bad faith

[ruby gust]

Contradiction to your earlier message where you said "I'm not say what I think as I think it"

[flat cobalt]

I don’t knew why your so upset I’m happy to move on if you are

[ruby gust]

Wait I just realised I have free will and don't have to argue with stupid people!

[autumn mirage]

this is not even fun, is sad...

[flat cobalt]

It’s not fun this is a server with children and many people in it and you don’t speak that way in public it’s rude and not acceptable

[autumn mirage]

I love how we cant expect quality from one of the most capable teams with years of experience, if we do we are not being considerate with the devs who work and live from this and we dont know anything

[autumn mirage]

i wonder why i care about not being unable to do anything in a match because the devs made is to is physically impossible to beat certain things if you dont got the right killer or perk... damm i wonder why i care about being able to have fun in game

[autumn mirage]

"if i dont read and ignore all i cant be wrong"

Damm such a winning argument

[flat cobalt]

I don’t see much point in continuing to speak it’s not pleasurable for either of us I think have a nice day tho

[autumn mirage]

Disagreeing on one thing and talking about why you think that while the other talks about why they dont think that is an argument

an argument is not a fight and just saying why you are right then dissmising any counter of your opinion as "i am not gonna argue, i just speak my mind" is not valid lol

[flat cobalt]

We’ll have a nice day

[autumn mirage]

lets remember he started "speaking his mind" when someone just stated how he felt about the game

someone just said was hard to play killer as low tier and he wrote a whole pharagrap about why they were wrong

but now "he is just speaking his mind" and we are just answering on bad faith

[autumn mirage]

Dont try to act behind a diagnostic, want me to bring up my asperger? we are talking reasons no need to use anything else as shield or dismiss

[winter tundra]

lf duo/group uk eu 18+
i am 4.5k hour surv
oops wrong chat

[autumn mirage]

Then just say exaggarated, going up to use unnecesary works doesnt really help but paints yourself out of the convo

[autumn mirage]

so disagreeing with you and showing you are wrong is being upset? lol

[autumn mirage]

same ngl but is fun to just keep giving arguments to people trying to ignore them

[autumn mirage]

Sir this is a wendy's

[autumn mirage]

all good man, been there myself lol

anyways bye have to check some uni stuff

[ruby gust]

Also I forgot to reply to this but yes the problem inherently is Conviction, it's too fucking strong and doesn't counter slugging but hovering
The reason I brought up Last Stand is because now it's a new thing to worry about trying to pick up anyone
Like yes flashlights are fine enough nowadays because they were nerfed to shit and you can actively avoid them
My problem with Last Stand is not that Last Stand is the most broken perk in the work, but now adds a new thing to focus on when you want to pick someone up that is not as avoidable as the other things that you typically could avoid
It puts you in a situation where most pickup situations are near impossible
While yes, Conviction is the significantly bigger problem, Last Stand exists as something that adds on to having to worry about being blinded or stunned in other forms
At least with blinds you could pick up against a wall, at least with pallet stuns you could M1 instantly or just like force them to die slightly further away from pallet
But now if you down someone near a window and pick up against a wall and aren't in range to be pallet stunned, you still have the chance to be stunned
Which puts you in a lose/lose because Conviction takes a SIGNIFICANTLY shorter time to activate than Unbreakable
I don't think I was ever saying that Last Stand was the most broken thing ever and if I did or implied so then my bad I didn't mean that
But Last Stand functions on TOP of all the other things you have to worry about just picking up survivors normally that it makes Conviction an even stronger perk

[snow berry]

holy yap

[snow berry]

pov: unemployed 💀

[autumn mirage]

Damm how dare the person talk about the game on the beta testing channel, my man if you cant think or bring yourself to have attention longer than a tiktok short just stay there

[verbal dirge]

What are the best adds on for Pyramid Head rn ?

[ruby gust]

Conviction is the biggest problem of this entire update given that it fucks over anybody who isn't picking up instantly, which as I've seen from Hens recently would massively affect Oni as his power gets significantly less value
But traditionally as a killer you'd want to down someone, and if someone is right in front of you, you'd try to injure them or down them too to gain some momentum
But now even those few seconds spent trying to do that fucks you over
I've played against Unbreakable for years and it takes about three times as long to activate as Last Stand does, which makes it a fucking beyond miserable perk
So this makes Last Stand a problem because even if you want to drop your momentum in favour of hooking them just in case, you have to worry about
A. A blind if you're not right up against a wall
B. DS
C. A stun if they're too close to pallet
This just puts you in a lose/lose/lose situation where you have to hope one of those things is not active and more often than not at least one person has DS at least one person has a flashlight and we'll see the pick rate for Last Stand when it comes out

It's just too much to handle all at once especially given that at least you can see if someone has a flashlight, but Last Stand is a perk you can't actually deal with that until it happens at a moment that could royally fuck you over

I know a bunch of survivor mains previously would say "Just run Lightborn if you hate flashlights" but what do you do against Last Stand?
There's no perk to counter that

Unless you run Lightborn for every game with even a single flashlight, and then make sure that you NEVER down next to a window or pallet (which literally won't happen since one of the most common downs in this game is when someone is vaulting) it's now a thing you have to worry about

Anti-slugging worked when you had builds that could feasibly counter it and force the killer into either hooking you or being punished for slugging for extended periods of time, Conviction takes about 7.5 seconds to activate that's beyond ridiculous

[errant hazel]

Jesus fucking christ

[ruby gust]

If someone runs a build like Plot Twist + Unbreakable + Conviction and you dare to "slug" them for 6 seconds then you just don't get to do anything about it

[errant hazel]

What would you say is the best build in the ptb arctic?

[ruby gust]

Forget Plot Twist just Unbreakable and Conviction makes a SIX second slug a mistake

[autumn mirage]

i would personally say the range ones

[ruby gust]

Range addons got nerfed/reworked

[ruby gust]

I mean Unbreakable + Conviction just royally screws the killer if they choose to slug you for six fucking seconds

Let's say you break a pallet because you're worried about Last Stand as a killer because that is a legitimate counter to it (If it's a pallet and not a window)
The time to walk up to the pallet, to break it, and walk back is viably enough time to get Conviction off and leave

Run Soul Guard and Overcome alongside those and literally stop caring about anything

Plus it's "healthy" because it incentivises survivors to be altruistic and heal each other, it's a beyond stupid perk

Last Stand isn't strong on its own and the situation I described never mentioned that, I explicitly said that because of Conviction it was strong

[snow berry]

Last stand is a killer sided perk budy

dont ever recomend that shit again

U throw the game by using that perk

[fleet lagoon]

how

[hallow chasm]

Should they increase Conviction to 50% or even 75%?

[ruby gust]

I think 75% is too unhealthy

50% would make sense because that's a reasonable amount of time for most killers

[snow berry]

nope its a balanced perk

[tacit moth]

nah i disagree, it is a balanced perk

[snow berry]

mf wants to nerf conviction while shoulder the burden is in the game

[ruby gust]

Conviction at 25% with Unbreakable makes it take 6 seconds to activate, without Unbreakable it takes 7.5

[hallow chasm]

I only want it to a value where you can’t do it in a Killer’s face immediately after getting downed.

[ruby gust]

At least at 50 it would 12 with Unbreakable and 15 without

[fleet lagoon]

and should stb be in the game?

[snow berry]

No

[fleet lagoon]

exactly then what is your point

[ruby gust]

Shoulder the Burden should absolutely be in the game lol it's one of the actually effective and risky anti-tunneling perks

[hallow chasm]

Would the perk be ruined if you could not gain Endurance if picked up off the ground using Conviction?

[fleet lagoon]

we should nerf stb first? or

[snow berry]

that people shouldnt complain abt balance perks like conviction when there is way more op shit

[ruby gust]

Do NOT complain about Kaneki you fucking plebians, Nurse is in the game

[snow berry]

only bots complain abt kaneki

[fleet lagoon]

yeah this argument makes little sense

[ruby gust]

I think that'd need more testing but it'd have to be between it either not allowing for endurance or making it take longer

I think if you put both on at the same time it becomes a little useless unless in a specialised build
The problem currently is that it puts the killer in a lose/lose for like almost every killer right now

Except for Nurse of course, who will teleport to you immediately after you get up, hit your Soul Guard and then hit you again

Except for Satoru Gojo of course man I love Nurse balancing and how they literally cannot figure out how to make her anything less than the best

[signal eagle]

I think there's a fair complaint in conviction being only actually good if you have a swf to get value. They constantly talk about wanting to lower the difference between solo and swfs, yet have only made perks that benefit swfs in this ptb

[ruby gust]

That person has no interest in arguing in any like given measure they just want to say anything lol

[flat cobalt]

Yea as a solo player I don’t even look at that perk and want to use it lol. Does it work with plot twist
Maybe that would be ok but that’s 2 slots already

[ruby gust]

Conviction right now in the PTB is a perk you can put on any build and it'll get its value consistently and very strongly no matter what, given that it's just Unbreakable but activates way faster and then you get downed after 30 seconds, which is an incredibly long time by the way
If it took longer to activate or didn't allow for endurance to activate it would make it less miserable

[hallow chasm]

Should Conviction only be allowed once per game?

[ruby gust]

Oh that would be really interesting

[hallow chasm]

Exclusively an end game only perk.

[ruby gust]

I think allowing it multiple times a game is fine, as long as it deactivates in endgame

[flat cobalt]

I don’t know I don’t think any of that will be relevant in my games maybe it will be issue for sweaty above soft cap games but if I’m killer I not a lot don’t slug Antoine anyway I just tunnel and camp them lol

[ruby gust]

The problem with the perk is it can guarantee a free escape it shouldn't be in endgame at all I think lol

If it went like 4 times a game, but then disabled in endgame, and also either didn't allow for endurance or took a bit longer
It'd be fine

[flat cobalt]

Like often the perks the good streamer hush say are good I find suck in low mmr game like they love the end game perks and in my games those are like the least relevant ones I find

[hallow chasm]

Make Conviction not have synergy with other perks?

[ruby gust]

I don't know how you'd prevent it from having the extra recovery speed from Unbreakable

I will say though Plot Twist removing the broken status kind of makes this strat way too viable

[flat cobalt]

I mean that seems silly that’s like half the fun of the game the builds and interactions and farming the unlocks

[snow tusk]

The entire time your aura is being shown

[flat cobalt]

Like I wish I could use scene partner with that harden perk but it doesn’t work that would be so much fun

[snow tusk]

Force the killer to chase after you

[ruby gust]

Off the Record and DS both deactivate during endgame because those are second chances that are way too fucking strong and would literally take you from maybe a guaranteed 2k to a 0k

The builds are fun if they don't make it a free win on either side

I generally don't think there should be perks that only give you value if you make mistakes, like NOED or DS

[grave pier]

like literally the reverse of that is all that makes sense

[flat cobalt]

I like the builds with all the mines and flash bangs even if you don’t win stunning the killer over and over is really funny I can’t wait for fog crystal thing those felt so fun in 2v8

[grave pier]

Conviction is crazy strong

[ruby gust]

I think while this would be funny if it was like an obsession perk or something that'd just be stupid because again the top 3 killers literally don't care

[flat cobalt]

Think so

[ruby gust]

The only people this perk hurts are everyone below the top 3
Those guys have so much manoeuvrability that it just doesn't matter to them no matter what you do

[flat cobalt]

Like if they down you can’t they just hook you or you like pop right back yo and get away or no?

[past cairn]

Last stand hate is completely out of proportion. People have no issue with head on saves, flip flop power struggle saves, and those are infinitely more problematic yet no one cares and no one runs them. How does it make it so "most" pickup situations are near impossible? no one ever thinks or cares about flip flop power struggle. Yet that you can FORCE. You cannot FORCE a save here. You can just kill the person that is hovering around the survivor. And if they get the save? Wow, means a person was not on a gen and wasted a perk slot.

[fleet lagoon]

youre still getting 4 slugged by nurse, conviction unbreakable whatever

[flat cobalt]

Do people even play nurse I think I’ve seen her once in like 100 games granted I saw spring trap in 60 so maybe that’s just him right now eating the play % but I almost never see nurse at all

[past cairn]

unbreakable is still in the game and more powerful lol

[snow berry]

in pubs maybe but in a swf nah unless ur shite

[ruby gust]

"People have no issue with Head On saves or Flip Flop Power Struggle saves" what are you on about people have loads of issues with those lol
Also you clearly didn't read a word I said because I explicitly mentioned Last Stand is only strong because Conviction also exists, the pickup situation is near impossible because either you get stunned by Last Stand or they get up with Conviction because you went to go kill the person who was hovering

[flat cobalt]

Is there like a played % stats thing somewhere

I legit feel like I see ST 2/3 games rn

Which I don’t mind as I like having the portals but would love to see pick rates if they are public knowledge

[ruby gust]

Oh okay so you just don't understand the game on a fundamental level nor did you care to read that Conviction can activate in fucking 7 seconds, a third of the time it takes Unbreakable and can activate MULTIPLE times

[past cairn]

How I have literally not seen a single person ever complain about flip flop power struggle (because its awful) and head on saves
And bro conviction is just unbreakable lmao, unbreakable always existed and always will. Not like they get endurance when they go up, just hit them or stand there, 2 people doing nothing in the game lol

[fleet lagoon]

who's ST again?? SingulariTy??

[ruby gust]

Literally either Nurse or Blight or Kaneki the big 3 of fuck you and your perks and your squad and anything you were trying to do lol

[flat cobalt]

Spring trap

[past cairn]

i dont care about conviction i care about last stand

[ruby gust]

Do you know about Soul Guard or styptics or Dead Hard or like when do I stop
And people fucking despise Head On and Flip Flop Power Struggle

[flat cobalt]

Tho I always call him Freddy for some reason lol

[past cairn]

and last stand needs to be an exhaustion perk and people need to stop being a crybaby

[ruby gust]

My entire talking point was about Conviction so you just don't care about anything anyone is saying

[flat cobalt]

There was one game where I didn’t knew what they were doing where they had that

[past cairn]

thats hilarious ive never seen it

I would love to see it for myself

[flat cobalt]

And like they just rushed the killer and kept picking up under pallets over and over

[snow berry]

yo can u stop spitting out terrible takes please

[past cairn]

you threw jabs at last stand thats what i care about

[flat cobalt]

But they never did a single gen and just bleed out really slow and I was like wtf are they even doing lol

[past cairn]

MAKE LAST STAND EXHAUSTION PERK

[snow berry]

a semi decent swf with the best perks will still beat insanely good blights so idk wym by good killers counter all ur perks

[fleet lagoon]

reusable head on but better?

[snow berry]

ur just bad, and also kaneki isnt even in top 3

[past cairn]

yes

[hallow chasm]

Just make Conviction disabled in end game, a one time use perk, and increase recovery threshold to 50%.

[ruby gust]

This is the exact thing that I said earlier yes

[flat cobalt]

Who would ever use it then lol

[ruby gust]

I don't think any second chance perks should ever exist in endgame

Who would use DS the 9th most used survivor perk in the game

[past cairn]

unbreakable:

[ruby gust]

I don't believe I stuttered

[fleet lagoon]

somehow have to make this perk better than UB, but not too good

[hallow chasm]

Unbreakable takes more time to activate than Conviction does.

[ruby gust]

That too, literally 3x the time

[hallow chasm]

And you can’t recover almost instantly in the Killer’s face.

[flat cobalt]

I don’t use either if their but I tell you what u have liked is the totem that does it

The boon exponential has been pretty clutch

[ruby gust]

Exponential is fine because you can just snuff it out

[hallow chasm]

Exponential relies on the Killer not putting out the totem as well as you being downed in that specific area.

[flat cobalt]

Yea but since I’ve sued it it works

I don’t worry about hypothetical or other players meta or mmr I just kind of notice what works for me and it’s been sweet so far

[ruby gust]

The problem is it's just significantly better Unbreakable with multiple uses and a very basic activation condition
I think it has to be better but fit a different role in not being an endgame thing that just lets you out instantly, Unbreakable working in endgame is more fine because it takes 24 seconds

[flat cobalt]

Like of the the end game if it’s still up and they slug to find the last guy it’s so funny lol

I will say the event letting me find the totems is nice too part of suing tk was the 3500 x5.5 for their blue totems we get rn lol

[hallow chasm]

Maybe Conviction puts you in Deep Wound upon picking yourself up with it?

[past cairn]

how would that change anything

[hallow chasm]

You can’t gain Endurance if you’re already in Deep Wound.

[ruby gust]

Alongside the deactivating in endgame and taking 50%?

[flat cobalt]

I mean your already broken and fall back over and totem and unbreakable don’t make you fall over like and even knit twist eats a slot how is this gonna be op outside like sweaty lobby

[past cairn]

how would you be getting endurance anyway? styptic?

[flat cobalt]

I think will be fine for 90% of people

[hallow chasm]

Soul Guard.

[ruby gust]

SOUL GUARD IS A CHERYL MASON PERK

[hallow chasm]

Dead Hard too.

[ruby gust]

Once again deep wound alongside those things or like just only make it deep wound?

[flat cobalt]

Soul guard I have on my main guy but u haven’t u locked it on the character it must have been bae kit perk at the start or something or maybe I got it to rank 3 before they had to be 50 but I don’t think I’ve ever used it

The other ones just seem stronger so having a use would be nice I like combo perks

[autumn mirage]

Kaneki release was BS ngl but i feel the second round of nerfs were over the top, he is still A tier but personally i cant enjoy his gameplay when using him

[flat cobalt]

Man the old dead hard from the start of game was so goated no hook stats required just like lunge forward on demand it was so good lol

Like it was not fair but it was really fun

[ruby gust]

Calling him A tier is like saying Trapper is actually C tier

They've done nothing but nerf Nurse over and over again and she's still the strongest
It doesn't matter how much they tweak numbers when the base power is just way too strong on its own

[fleet lagoon]

and multiple uses

[autumn mirage]

Personally i love playing Nurse using Matchbox, i never play her unless is with Matchbox

[flat cobalt]

Yes it was the perk

I loved it lol but back then people didn’t really play to win they played to jump scare etc at least that’s where I was

[ruby gust]

Like Kaneki is up there in the top 3 because he can go between a gen and a hook as fast as you can blink and then has a chase power that ignores like half the things in the game, similar to Blight and Nurse

A tier killers are like maybe Pyramid Head and Wesker but Kaneki is just really fucking strong inherently

[autumn mirage]

They can pretty much escape on endgame if someone opens the gates, so basicly you cant slug on the endgame and if you try picking them up you can get flashlight or the other 3 survivors escape

[ruby gust]

The problem with top tiers and bottom tiers is that no matter what you try, they won't be able to change given the fundamental nature of their power
Unless you actually just rework their power three times to get rid of the only thing the killer can do thank fuck three gen boring ass stall game

And she's STILL better than Trapper

[autumn mirage]

Agree and also would be cool if using it made you bleed faster, like you can move for 30 seconds but unless someone heals you after you will be closer to dying by bleeding

[ruby gust]

I think Conviction would be fair and balanced if we brought back old Pain Res and old Pop

Don't change Conviction at all just give me infinite uses of Pain Res and make Pop 20% of total

[autumn mirage]

Also i feel love Conviction should be seen, like one issue i have is that i cant tell if the survivor was healed or used conviction so i chase them and when i am gonna hit they just fall to the ground so i wasted 30 seconds on someone who wasnt a treat

[ruby gust]

Okay so like anyone who gets up from dying is a threat because that's a person that you can't hook or gain pressure on that's just not a thing at all

You can also clearly tell because they're broken

[sharp nacelle]

if you were gonna get pressure from hooking then why would you just let them recover and use it? i agree its a strong perk but i see no use outside of endgame for this

[ruby gust]

If you see a survivor right in front of you when you down someone, do you just completely ignore them and any momentum you could gain from injuring/downing them to only focus on picking up?

Also this perk singlehandedly makes Oni's power less effective

[autumn mirage]

I have slugged swf twice because i would reach endgame and only have 1 hook so they open gates and come the 3 to save the hooked one and by confidence the 3 would die... I swear confidence is the poison in this game, makes you throw games so hard

[sharp nacelle]

if this perk is going to be as common as people here think it will be, then why does them using it matter for slugging? they are just gonna go down anyway

[ruby gust]

What did any of that mean you have to explain further

[autumn mirage]

Yo can u explain why they are terrible instead of saying "you wrong" or "aint reading that 🥀"?

[autumn mirage]

Agree

[sharp nacelle]

like this perk does not counter slugging effectively imo

• yes they can pick where they go down, but if you are just slugging them, the location doesn't matter really
• if you go for the snowball as they use it, then the slug still happens, so i don't see the issue here

[ruby gust]

It takes 7 seconds to get up

It's not anti slugging it's anti doing literally anything except IMMEDIATELY picking them up

Also most killers cannot go for the snowball and come back in time to down them

You're thinking of Nurse who is unaffected by every change in this game

[autumn mirage]

Not really, if you use her 2 addons that reduce her stats she is weak asf the issue is her power is almost impossible to have balance is either too strong or too weak + if they gutt Nurse people who played her for years would cry rivers which tbf spending thousands of hours to get a killer become worst than Skull Merchant would be unfair

[sharp nacelle]

if you are snowballing then you should just commit to the other person right? 'coming back' doesn't matter

[autumn mirage]

I feel like we need more Doctor's rework, his rework was freaking amazing even if he didnt become top tier he managed to be funnier to play while also making happy those who played his old version

[autumn mirage]

As someone broke i can recognize my kind

[ruby gust]

Let's use Oni as the example of snowball king
His power is most effective if you go and down multiple people and make sure that you get the efficient use of your power
Now the problem is you want to go back to pick people up, if they had Unbreakable they might just barely get up by the time you're back and you can quickly down them and move on
Conviction makes it so that the second the Oni leaves, you're back up and you can fuck off to a far corner of the map and either get healed or use Plot Twist for a full recovery
Now this is the assumption with only ONE Conviction on the team, if there were multiple the snowball just doesn't even happen and everyone back to fine
But again even with just one person you've wasted your time because you wanted to try and down someone else with the power that encourages you to down someone else
The problem inherently is that it's far too quick and 30 seconds is a really long time when it comes to situations like this
Conviction letting you up in 7.5 seconds compared to Unbreakable's 24 is insane

[autumn mirage]

So basicly why would you ever snowball if you still get a single hook? You down one person then when you down the second the first is gone, you wasted more time to get the same result

[sharp nacelle]

the whole point is only 1 person max is on a gen

• slug (with conviction) is downed, will get back up but will go down again + needs healing
• person in chase
• healer
• person on a gen

the only thing against this is conviction and plot twist, which is objectively too strong

[ruby gust]

The problem I will always go back to is that it only takes 7.5 seconds approximately to get up
Slugging should not be "You dared to leave for less than 10 seconds", 10 seconds is not slugging

[ruby gust]

I generally agree with this but Unbreakable was strong enough for anti-slugging with being 3x the time which is my main issue
I know we're talking outside of endgame so I won't mention that but a multiple time Unbreakable at 3x the speed to use is just ridiculous
Also technically you don't need an explicit healer, Conviction allows you to be up for 30 seconds which you could use to go and work on a gen and then when you go down the person who you were helping with the gen could just pick you up or you could just solo work on a gen for about 20 seconds and get good value out of that

[autumn mirage]

And that 1 person will basicly do the gen with no interruption for what a whole minute?

• they get down then can heal themselfs on a safe place or go to the other survivor to be instantly healed and the two work on gen

[ruby gust]

It's actually way smarter to use those 30 seconds to get to a gen someone else is working on and help them until you're forced back down

And then the other person continues working on the gen while the Conviction user recovers until they get picked up in like 2 seconds

This doesn't even need a swf just some amount of competency

Though none of this is to say that's what makes Conviction broken, I think actually this is kind of fair value for the most part and is actually a good way to use the perk

I say the most part because it should take the 15 seconds instead of 7.5

The real broken part is the speed and the fact that it works in endgame

[autumn mirage]

This literally buffs soloq too

Like just by the conviction buying time the soloq will simply be able to do anything they want the whole chase time and killer will only get 1 hook stll

[autumn mirage]

Good idea but bad execution currently

[ruby gust]

I mean kind of but that is a strength of Unbreakable as well

It's just that again it's the speed difference between these two perks

Unbreakable already existed as anti-slugging
Conviction is anti-slugging, anti-hovering, anti-snowball

[gusty turtle]

Is it me or is it that the PTB is boring for sum reason to me

[autumn mirage]

Yeah i was talking conviction only but survivors got 3 perks more si basicly is a fuck you for killer

[ruby gust]

I still think it's really funny they put the best perks on Michonne so that way TWD fans who only wanted Rick would have to buy her for the better perks

I can post images now god bless

[autumn mirage]

Is even funnier having in mind that Michonne didnt even got her VA

[autumn mirage]

Is a bless but curse

[signal eagle]

I mean I don't think it's really that good solo. The value you get from it in solo isn't really better than other perks you'd already usually bring in most cases, and you'd be better off just bringing unbreakable than hoping for a slug situation you can actually get value from

[autumn mirage]

Maybe because is all balance changes and only big thing is the smoke bombs, like we got no new killer or something that really changes experience far from current matches

[autumn mirage]

I mean because soloq can actually do something while the others make the killer waste time and can heal the down survivor more easily since they can go to you in the 30 seconds they got

More than buff is just a bit more comfortable to play soloq

[signal eagle]

But that almost never happens in solo queue. People don't usually buy enough time to let you slug, and they wouldn't even know to for the perk

Unless the killer is trying to snowball a game or secure a 4k, you'll basically never get a slug situation in solo queue, and even then the value you'd get from those 30 seconds is wayyyyy less than in a swf

And then once the killer sees you do it once you'll never get slugged again unless a teammate forces it, which again is unlikely solo, so you'd just be better running unbreakable

[autumn mirage]

Yeah thats what i mean, killers that get benefits from snowball are basicly screwed now with conviction

Think of Oni for example

[signal eagle]

Well not really, I can't see people running the perk like at all after the first couple weeks unless it's a swf trying to bully, or maybe the rare plot twist gamer

It's just not as strong as people are making it out to be unless you're specifically going out of your way to abuse it, which is why I see a huge problem with it being absolutely abusable despite being incredibly weak otherwise

It's the same reason shoulder the burden isn't common even though people freaked out when it released, the perk is competing with a lot of other better perks for the slot and it requires specific circumstances to be good that you need a swf to work for

[tulip ridge]

How do I report ppl for hacking?

[autumn mirage]

If i see a Oni in match i would 100% run it, basicly counters him

[autumn mirage]

In the endgame menu

[signal eagle]

But you wouldn't know that before the game starts, it'd be like trying to run mtf just in case you get a kaneki

I get where you're going with it, but situationally strong doesn't make it op

[autumn mirage]

You can change your perks in the menu before match and killers cant switch to other killer in that menu

[signal eagle]

But you can't see what killer you're up against to know if they're one that needs to slug?? I don't get what you're trying to say lmao

[autumn mirage]

Outside Nurse what killer can counter the perk?

[autumn mirage]

Oh wait forgot that lmaooo, i never played Survivor so i forgot you cant see the killer

I can see survivors all the time so i just think they can see me too

[signal eagle]

Anyone because you can just not slug if you suspect it or know it's in play in most situations. There's the rare situation where it's too strong, and swfs can take insane advantage of that, hence why I say it's poorly designed

But not too strong, because unless said swf is running it specifically to die on pallet it's not doing a lot

[autumn mirage]

If you dont slug but got another player literally next to you then you can get blinded when picking up, body block, sabotage, pallet stunned or more

If survivors go on team of 2 while using conviction you are basicly screwed

[signal eagle]

That's why I said it's bad design, but it's not op

It's still competing with perks leagues better than it, even if it is very abusable

[autumn mirage]

My man

The perks work all 4 together, is op because of what we got already

Is OP because of the current pool of perks there are, not because of the perk alone by itself

Also is broken on endgame

[signal eagle]

If survivors start running 4-perk antislug builds instead of just flip flop/power struggle or straight unbreakable, is that not just better for the killer?

[autumn mirage]

If they are opening gates you cant not hook anyone you down because if not the survivors can just open gate and the down one can run in the gate you are not in

[signal eagle]

There's already better antislug builds that take less to make work

[autumn mirage]

They dont need 4, with 2 + perks to not allow you to hook survivors you would basicly be unable to do something

If you slug you dont get any value only 1 hook as much, if you hook the moment you kill someone you may not even get that hook and if you camp gens then no one is happy

[autumn mirage]

I have facen antislugs but i hace struggleled the most so far with oens around Conviction

Also my main issue still is endgame, the perk is basicly endgame escape

[signal eagle]

I mean you'd probably struggle just as much against 4 unbreakables, it's the ptb and everyone has it

I get your point, but again it's an issue with poor game design and poor perk design, it doesn't do anything that didn't already exist

[autumn mirage]

I already do because when they got conviction they also got unbreakable

Again is not just conviction alone, they use 4 perks

They can work around conviction + make you unable to get a hook

[signal eagle]

But again full anti-slug builds already exist and are just as absurdly horrible. This is just the main talking point now because it's all you see in ptb

Flipflop/power struggle with occasional boil over and unbreakable is still just as absurd
Any swf that sabo's or knows to die on pallets/prepare for saves is just as bad
It's not a perk problem, it's a fundamental game problem and the perk makes it more obvious than it already was

[autumn mirage]

I am not saying the perk needs to be gone i am saying that needs to be changed regardless of how it works with endgame and how basicly screws you if they use conviction + other already meta perk for it

Also shouldnt work on endgame

Because you are forced to hook them and let the rest open gates or pressure on gates, let them hide until one gate is open then activate and use the 30 seconds to run to that gate

The perk is amazing new idea but needs to be changed on some aspects because of what is already in game + endgame

[signal eagle]

I mean it needs changed, I just don't think it's op per-se, more just incredibly abusable in certain situations that can be forced by survivors

That's where I disagree, I'm not saying it's good how it is or that the things it can do are fine

[autumn mirage]

Incredibly abusable in certain situations have been the definition of OP in dbd always... Thats literally how every broken perk have been used

[signal eagle]

I mean, the only perks that have been or are currently op are ones that are abusable in every situation

Buckleup/FTP, MFT, old self care/botany, old dh (and old old dh), they all never had a situation where you never got value

You could easily take conviction into several matches solo and never get slugged once because your team has no way to know that they should play around it

[grave pier]

There's soft value in conviction even just existing because it now drastically shortens the time killers can be sure a survivor will stay down without intervention

[hallow chasm]

It's going to have the same problem as Shoulder the Burden and Duty of Care does. Amazing perk when used in a coordinated team, but either mediocre or terrible in a solo queue scenario where no one knows definitively what the other is doing.

[grave pier]

Going to be honest I think it'll be good in solo queue too.

You won't get hard value consistently but I mean, if you ever get the chance to use it even once that value skyrockets

and just the threat of the perk existing is going to shift how killers behave in turn, unless it's uber rare.

[hallow chasm]

Should it give Deep Wound upon getting up using the perk so you can't use Dead Hard, Soul Guard, or any other perk that grants Endurance?

[grave pier]

It kinda defeats the point if it does, since the idea (in theory) is that you can stay up if you get a heal off, no?

It's not as elegant but maybe it just disables all other perks entirely for the duration

[hallow chasm]

I just really hate the end game situations for it where the Killer cannot do anything against it.

[grave pier]

or status effects, not sure about if that's possible with how everything is set up

[grave pier]

100% needs to be disabled endgame no matter what

I'm leaning towards it also only having one charge like last stand

[hallow chasm]

It feels like that time where a Survivor I hooked at the end of the game had Deliverance and I couldn't do anything about that.

They get a free hit going out the door.

And people are going to use it with Soul Guard because, why not?

[grave pier]

tbf I think that's a wildly different situation, though yeah it probably feels bad

But it does make my point that it's like.. really easy to get value from Conviction

[hallow chasm]

Hooked a Survivor near exit gate since that's all I can reach in that time, first hook, but they had Deliverance proced and ready so they unhooked themselves immediately, and they have Endurance for the 10 seconds it took to get to the exit trigger, so what do I do against that?

[grave pier]

You don't. As frustrating as it is I think it's a lot more fair for someone to get rewarded for avoiding a hook all game then just dying after healing someone

but I have no real opinion on disabling deli in endgame, I guess. I'd be fine either way, I usually use deli a lot earlier when it'd have clear value

[hallow chasm]

Definitely raise the recovery threshold to 50%.

[grave pier]

But conviction, yeah, I think it needs work. Particularly, it needs a way bigger downside similar to STB

[hallow chasm]

25% is too short since Unbreakable exists.

[grave pier]

or FTP

[grave pier]

That'd be my first thing to do, and then see how the perk goes from there

I think people really underestimate how strong this perk is, it could genuinely shake things up

[hallow chasm]

It should have one use only and is disabled for the rest of the game, and definitely disabled when gates are powered.

[grave pier]

One time use seems reasonable considering unbreakable.

[hallow chasm]

What are your thoughts on Last Stand?

[past cairn]

incredible

[signal eagle]

That's kinda what I'm saying, it definitely needs tweaks to change that aspect. It's not really worth taking in solo queue over unbreakable for consistency reasons as the value can be very hit-or-miss there, but in a team you can just say "go down on a pallet and I'll hold them for a couple seconds" and now the killer can never gain pressure

[signal eagle]

As for last stand, I think it's just fine. People are overrating it because of the fact you can get saves but it's functionally useless in chase in most situations as the killer can still hit you while vaulting and it has basically no range. It's more of a meme perk than anything that people will forget once the newness of it wears off

[grave pier]

Survivors don’t need window stuns tbh

But uh, I think it’s neat, limit the “aoe” to where you vault from and not the other side and I think you could remove the one use limit, even.

[viscid delta]

looking for 2 for customs dm me

[signal eagle]

I feel like the usage limit is to prevent swfs from abusing it all match, but it is a bit bad when it has a limit

[grave pier]

I think if you remove the altruism potential it becomes a lot more playable for killers against swfs even

Preferably I’d just not have it exist, but if it has to, I really don’t want another head on.

[grave pier]

Frankly I’d rather them implement a hard limit on how many times a killer can be stunned with perks like these

[hallow chasm]

Or the stun time gets shorter and shorter with each subsequent stun?

[grave pier]

I’m talking something like bloodlust/window blocking

Most stuff in this game is not designed around four players running around and using them like SWFs do, weaker killers especially suffer

I don't see why we couldn't have some kind of ramping enduring effect if the killer gets stunned enough without some condition being fulfilled, either a hit, down, or hook, I don't have the data to really make a judgement on what would work best.

But I don't see a situation where a killer is being juiced that hard where it'd be unfair for them to get something back.

Generally I think this game would be in a better state if we added more stuff discouraging bully squads

[signal eagle]

Honestly I think it would’ve been cool to see it be a 2.5 second blind at the start of the vault on an 80-second terror radius to charge, with a wider range
Easier to use, has actual chase use, and won’t be so altruistic. The only problem is maybe it’d be a little annoying to be blinded from it, but at 80 seconds it wouldn’t be too common

Maybe that’s not the best idea, but it’s all I have as far as fixing that perk goes, because with how it is now it’s almost useless if you aren’t a swf with communication

[grave pier]

Assuming it just blinds you and doesn't work like a flashlight when it comes to saving someone from a grab, I'd be happy to make the charge time go down big time. I'm really just worried about altruism, which is the main value I see from the perk.

the stun itself is nothing considering most windows you'd make that much distance with lithe

well, not as much, but it presents more consistent value for 99% of the playerbase.

[signal eagle]

I guess that’s true. I only said 80 seconds because I think it’d be maybe a bit absurd paired with something like lithe, but it’s hard to say. I think it’d be interesting to use and pair with other perks if it was a blind you could maybe use to stealth or work around, and it wouldn’t be quite as absurd.

Having it be a stun that only happens at the end of a vault once per match is basically asking to have issues with swfs, which is a weird decision considering they clearly knew it’d be problematic when they limited it to once per match to begin with

[grave pier]

I don't think the lithe combo would be very problematic, considering you'd have to hit the stun on your first fast/medium vault or lithe would trigger without the stun

[past cairn]

NO

that is the dumbest reddit level take I have seen

[grave pier]

In what normal game are you hitting head ons consistently enough for this to ever be a problem

[past cairn]

"ah yes I dislike mildly getting infuriated by a swf head oning me like 3 times, what a shame, let me remove it"

"Wow I wonder why they're on gens instead of trying to have fun"

Who cares if you got stunned a couple times, this isnt the era of locker saves, you can just... chase the people on gens. Theres no current methods to completely lock the killer into getting stunned over and over

[grave pier]

The nefarious dead dawg saloon:

[ocean ledge]

ptb over, ??

[past cairn]

You realize that in order to pull that off, you need a survivor off the generator first, wasting even more time

It's just for fun. People treat the video game like a job. Just let people have some dang fun. If they nerf head on im quitting (my entire playstyle is saves)

[grave pier]

Yeah it sounds like you're exactly the person I'm targetting so the reaction is a good sign

[past cairn]

waaaah waaah i got head oned a couple times and still 4ked waaah waaah

[grave pier]

???

[past cairn]

??????

[grave pier]

"I just said this game is about having fun but like.. you got a 4k so that automatically means it was fun for you too."

Bully squads aren't overly effective but they're annoying. very annoying, and believe it or not they're unhealthy for the game because nobody wants to play against stuff like that.

[past cairn]

lmao getting head oned a couple times = i have lost all fun in the game and will now rage indiscriminately

[grave pier]

😭

[past cairn]

How are they unhealthy? You get your 4k, we get our fun, there's no downside. Wow you got flashlight saved a couple times, big deal. 4 man slugs until the timer runs out are quite a bit worse, but I dont see you complaining

[grave pier]

Wow, you would've made a really good point if I had mentioned four man slugs at all.

Like.. I don't support bleeding out survivors either?

And again, not a win-win, 4k doesn't automatically equal fun.

[past cairn]

okay but like head on should not have a counter on it, you cant even abuse head on at the moment lmao

Head on is a hilarious perk that is basically throwing the game

These "bully squads" are an integral part of the game since they carry a lot of fun for survivor SWFs, since believe it or not not everyone wants to sweat their balls off to try and escape

[grave pier]

Honestly what do I even say to this, you just.. can't comprehend the irony.

[past cairn]

whats the irony sir?

[grave pier]

You know what, you're right, lets remove all the bars against playstyles. Remove basekit borrowed time.

I like to tunnel, why aren't you letting me tunnel? It's how I have fun.

[past cairn]

You can tunnel. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I run DS. But dont try and remove my head on or flashlight saves.

[grave pier]

God forbid we try to give new players an enjoyable experience.

[past cairn]

LMAO

[signal eagle]

I do disagree with limiting stuns because I don’t think inherently limiting the ability for people to make plays based on how a match goes is a good option. However, there is a fair point in the imbalance of perks that are effectively useless when solo, but can be impossible to deal with against full head-on/vigil swfs that get it back in 16 seconds

[past cairn]

it's an epidemic of new killers getting bullied by flashlight saving survivors, wow what a tragedy. We must remove that entirely

Okay we need to stop bullying new survivors, base kit off the record and DS

[grave pier]

Like, I genuinely wonder if you understand that you're so viciously defending against my.. idea for removing incredibly outlier situations like we did for infinite windows?

I didn't even give a number for how many would hypothetically trigger anything, you were so vehemently disgusted with the idea of not being able to do something in perpituity that you jumped in

[past cairn]

There's no spots on the map where you can infinitely head on save. That's not a thing. And no locker saves either. So unless the killer is dumb enough to let it happen (instead of idk chasing the people next to the lockers) then i dont even know

[past cairn]

If you can currently name me a single situation where head on, or other stun related perks, are inherently unfair, or hold the game hostage, then I will listen. But there are currently NOT such things.

[grave pier]

DBD players when you ask them to play the game:

[past cairn]

DBD players trying not to complain about horrific perks because they got stunned a couple times a game (still 4ked of course)

[grave pier]

??????

Is there someone else you're talking to, you're hallucinating someone else's arguement and then arguing against that.

[signal eagle]

But that is a thing with coordinated swfs that run flashlights. There is counterplay, but it’s so time-consuming and difficult that you’d be better off quitting instead of playing the headon game for 20 minutes just to get one hook

[past cairn]

You said there were unfair outliers with head on. I said there are not. You said you wanted limits on the amount of stuns with such perks. I said there should not be. That's it.

[grave pier]

Yeah the unfair outlier where you get queued in with a baby killer and they aren't experienced enough to know how to deal with it.

[past cairn]

Alright maybe I'm from a different planet but I have yet to see that a single time, either online or in game. I have yet to ever see an oppressive head on swf

[past cairn]

:( so sad. I am so sad for the baby killers who dont know how to look away. It's so much better if the survivors instead focus on gens and genrush their way out :). Then the killer is happy! And not like they need to learn how to play the game!

[grave pier]

Never get this argument. "Oh, we could cream them, but we'd rather them suffer for a longer time instead."

[past cairn]

Because it's quite fun to stun/blind the killer and save your friends from getting hooked. That's why sabo and every other save mechanic is in the game. It's excilirating - and probably 75% of the survivor fun

Survivor without sabotage, without stun saves, without flashlights, and without wiggle, is just the most boring generator chase game ever.

[grave pier]

I'm sorry but if you're hitting 5+ non pallet stuns on a killer without a hook yeah maybe I think you should be able to curb that sorry

Huge hot take I know.

I bet you do this every game and a theoretical mechanic like that would inhibit you every single time. mb.

[past cairn]

killer needs to get better I think. I don't understand your point

"Ya if you keep 4 man killing everyone with nurse I think we should curb that"

like bro stop taking the game so serious some people want to just have fun. And getting 5+ stuns is WAYYY harder than you think

[past cairn]

I do this every game. I run head on DS flip flop power struggle and it's really fun.

[grave pier]

lmfao you genuinely can't read

[past cairn]

I don't take the game seriously and mostly just play with one friend. If I die, well that's okay. But it's a lot of fun to get locker saves.

[grave pier]

See you could've lead with that so I knew your opinion was irrelevant.

[past cairn]

Player likes to play the game a certain way = opinion irrelevant

just look at a wall bro

[grave pier]

I mean we both know you’re being disingenuous. But regardless, I wouldn’t care one bit if you quit the game, in all honesty it’d be a net benefit.

[signal eagle]

The term “bully squad” was coined specifically because this exists, and I think it would be nothing but ignorance to deny their existence, even if they’re rarer nowadays than in the past. Even moreso, I think it would also be incredibly ignorant to think perks which are incredibly good in swfs but useless solo are healthy.
(I have not read any other parts of the conversation as I am too busy, this is all I am making a point on) currently)

[past cairn]

lmao bro got salty that some people dont want to sweat the game off and would instead prefer to occasionally stun the killer. Go touch grass dude. It's a game. You aren't otzdarva, you dont gotta worry about a win streak my guy. If you get that tilted at head on that you want it nerfed. Head on. A perk so bad that it loses you the game, then go ahead.

[past cairn]

Head on is not good in swfs. They just are not. They do little to nothing but just waste time. Everything is better in swf because you have coordination and teamwork. Head on is so abysmally bad that you are actually just handicapping yourself.

[grave pier]

See it’s funny, because you act like I’m asking for head on to kill you if you use it twice in a match.

The fact you can’t even acknowledge even the basest truth in the idea makes it very obvious what your intentions are.

[past cairn]

What's the basest truth in the idea?

That some people get mad when they get stunned in a video game? People also rage at people gen rushing and stomping on them. Same with t bagging. Same with any other thing. Except just so happens that stuns - are net detrimental to the game. You dont see pros running dead dawg with head on, it's just a squad that likes to have fun.

[grave pier]

That you're in it specifically to annoy people lmao

Like, this idea targets you. So I understand how defensive you are.

[past cairn]

Excuse me for not dedicating my life to trying to escape in a video game that will affect my life in 0 ways

[grave pier]

Anyway

[past cairn]

We should remove tunnelling. It hurts people. It makes baby survivors feel bad. Base kit DS and off the record because it's bad for new survivors and they feel bad and don't know how to counter it. Disproportionately affects solo queue. Does not affect SWF nearly as much. Or add a limit to how fast you can chase people off the hook.

See how that sounds?

[grave pier]

Yeah, no, I think there's a reasonable solution somewhere. The huge power difference between swfs and normal lobbies needs to be addressed, ideally, in game voice chat, which would bridge the gap and allow perks to be balanced around a more singular survivor idenity rather than two very different groups

[past cairn]

Then I hit you with the: "You're just out to make survivors feel bad if you dont want base kit ds and off the record"

[grave pier]

Hey did you know that they did literally that for basekit borrowed time

[past cairn]

That's because it was de facto basekit already because like 80% of builds ran it

And the ones that didnt were blatantly throwing the game

[grave pier]

I'm going to go play the game and have fun now

Thanks for the laughs, though.

[past cairn]

I'll make sure to queue with you and head on you, though :)

[grave pier]

Cool. I'll be fine with it because I know how to deal with it.

Chao.

[signal eagle]

I mean you aren’t wrong, but I’m more using that as a current example to the perks I was originally discussing (conviction/last stand). I think making perks that rely on your teammates doing very specific actions for a potentially very-powerful effect is just utterly unhealthy for the game. Swfs already have the advantage over solo players as a result of communication alone, and I think the way they keep designing strong perks in ways most people couldn’t use them is just unhealthy and stupid

I’m assuming the other discussion went somewhere like “headon is op” but I can’t go back to read it right now. Headon can be rather annoying, but to say it’s too strong would be wrong, even though the perk is annoying and kinda poorly designed

[past cairn]

I dont see where the problem lies. Ya they have strong potential, but they are so actually weak. They're meme perks. They are terribly bad. Absolutely no comp team ever runs any trolling perk because they're bad. One person waiting for a flashlight save (or maybe with the new survivor, window save) is a person that could be on a gen. It's a waste. Who cares? People want to have fun

So what if it's annoying? Should we remove anything from the game that slightly inconviences the other side? No. We should not. Because it's a game, not a tournament for money.

[random pivot]

Is console mnk support coming when twd comes out?

[short oyster]

bit late but thank u!

[signal eagle]

It should be

[random pivot]

Okay thanks

[gusty turtle]

True! Them smoke bombs tho go crazy! I had a match to where everyone was spamming them nonstop after the cooldowns

I couldn’t see nothing

As a survivor I’m not too much of a fan of em but they are cool regardless

[autumn mirage]

Ngl i like them but the size is too big, if they reduce size and maybe touch a bit some addons convinations i feel it could be amazing to add

[gusty turtle]

Also on certain parts of certain maps they actually look really cool

[signal eagle]

I will agree on the statement of last stand not being op, however my point is still that it’s poor design to make a perk be useless without another survivor specifically enabling it in a niche way. However, conviction is definitely going to be a problem as it is, because the ability to stand up in 6 seconds and run to some random corner is an insane way to deny pressure.

For solo players, maybe you’d get an escape on some rare occasion or finish a generator, but the value wouldn’t really be better than unbreakable because people wouldn’t slug long without a reason. However, when paired with some other survivor, dying on a pallet or near someone with a flashlight can absolutely be an issue, because it’s a lose/lose of either guessing when the person under you stands up or chasing the person who wants to save, as both outcomes cause you to lose a lot of time and game pressure

It may not be the best perk per-se, but I think it will definitely be an issue

[thorny stump]

does anyone know a very good chucky perk build?

[foggy iron]

Guys what's ptb

[autumn mirage]

I feel like they can be really powerful in inside maps, because if they cut a corner you are unable to know where they go

[autumn mirage]

Play test beta if i remember right, rn there is an active beta with possible changes coming into the game but that are put in test for anyone to try so they can see if is good idea or bad, even what to change before releasing + you can play any killer or survivor you want but the progress doesnt transport to the normal game so once is over you loss all you had until next PTB

[signal eagle]

Yeah I think smokes are great currently, and I’d definitely rather see them over toolbox/medkit every game. However the range definitely is too much as-is, and the way it inhibits auras at any range is kind of stupid, especially considering it counters lethal completely

I think it should give blindness to anyone within it, not obscure the auras of survivors inside

[autumn mirage]

Also maybe make them have different interaction in door

like if you throw one inside a house or in indors maps i cant see the killer being able to continue the chase it feels like a get out of jail card in those situations

[signal eagle]

Maybe, but I think that mostly just ties into the range problem. If the range was less, the way it fills entire rooms or the entirety of shack would be less of a problem

[autumn mirage]

thats true

[distant wren]

I literally watched a streamer get bullied with head on with a swf. They had lockers everywhere. This can and does happen.

[stark mesa]

are people unironically complaining about the pig now?

like god forbid pig is not d tier anymore

(she still is)

[signal eagle]

I mean people complain about anything

If they lose a game to it, it's too strong

[stark mesa]

yes but like ITS FUCKING PIG, shes been borderline unusable for years, but now that they give her a quality of life buff, which doesnt really change any interactions....

[signal eagle]

Well yeah, she's completely fine. It's just people want any reason to blame a loss on something other than themselves

[stark mesa]

what i fear is that the devs may actually listen to them

[signal eagle]

I certainly hope not, because I actually play her a fair bit still

[elder grove]

bro

no

balancing shouldnt be a perk requirement for the opposing team

it should be just that the perk isnt game breaking in the first place

[zinc pecan]

Public Test Build

[distant wren]

I want the person who said head on isn't used to bully killers when it's a swf to watch some clips I have.

[gusty turtle]

At the same time tho they make me blind as shit

[hallow chasm]

How do you counter Head On groups?

[distant wren]

You play ghoul or demo.

[hallow chasm]

Why those two specifically?

[distant wren]

Because of their special attacks. I watched a swf absolutely bully a killer on a map that had lockers side by side in multiple locations. They head on saved teammates multiple times. A match that could have taken 10 minutes lasted 45 because they were straight up bullies.

[hallow chasm]

But what about their attacks counter Head On?

[distant wren]

You can time their special attack vs. trying to m1 them. They both have a sort of pounce attack. Regardless, it happens way more than people think.

[hallow chasm]

I'm used to playing around it if I suspect it.

[distant wren]

You used to playing around 3 of them?

[hallow chasm]

Not 3, but I have done it with 2.

Avoid lockers like the plague or pause at lockers that I think they're going to come out of while in a chase. If I guess right, they jump out too early and I can get a hit.

I feel Head On should cause Exhausted regardless of whether the stun was successful or not.

[distant wren]

🤣🤣🤣 when survivors are ACTIVELY jumping into lockers that are around a loop and the 4th person is looping around said lockers. What to you want a killer to do? My point being, swf ABSOLUTELY brings head on to bully killers, unlike what the person who I was responding to claimed.

[hallow chasm]

I wish they would just balance this game around SWFs or decide whether or not they want this game to be a competitive or party game.

[distant wren]

They can't, because it'll screw over solo queue. They can move lockers, though. There shouldn't be a map with a loop that has 2 lockers on 2 sides.

[hallow chasm]

And don't say "Just add ranked/unranked modes" you know full well bully comp SWF teams will intentionally queue for unranked to torment inexperienced Killers.

[distant wren]

There's never a reason for a loop to have multiple lockers side by side. That enables bullying. I said nothing about making ranked/unranked matches. There's an easy fix that bhvr won't make 🙄

[distant wren]

Amazing I see the solution yet you think something completely different. 🤣🤣

[sullen phoenix]

We are the walking dead :3

[alpine obsidian]

Did any of the adjusted perks become useable now or are they still not really worth it

[fleet lagoon]

i think new streetwise is pretty nice

[alpine obsidian]

Haven't tested that out yet. What's new?

[fleet lagoon]

it goes from inferior item efficiency to
"i'll let you see killer aura and make chest items have 2x the charges they normally has"

[signal eagle]

I mean for the most part they kinda gutted perks. Streetwise maybe became slightly better and still sight got possibly usable if that's the kind of effect you'd want, but that's mostly it

[alpine obsidian]

Yeah something like insidious sadly won't be unless it adds something like a lingering undetectable

[rare arch]

When does ptb end

[past cairn]

coping about head on is crazy

[barren viper]

PTBs usually run for about a week at the longest, sometimes a bit shorter.

You can probably still play it over the weekend, then that's about it

[iron dust]

Yeah, think it ends on Wednesday or Tuesday

[ancient spire]

So Rick was taken after the bridge explosion

And Michonne sometime before “the ones who live”

Does Daryl’s legendary pieces indicate when he was taken?

[runic mica]

my goose feathers were tingling with this nonsense post. talk about "bullying" when people are slugged, camped and tunneled to death every single match. theres simple fixes for that too that survivors used to have but here we are with yall able to get away with ruining the fun in the game for everyone then wondering why yall sit in 5+ min q's all day

[signal eagle]

I know it's a novel concept, but both killer and survivor have abusable mechanics that need changes. I don't know why people are so stuck-up about the whole them vs us mentality

It's not "y'all need to be better," it's "the game has poor mechanics and it needs to be better"

If anything, that mentality is why things don't get changed to begin with, because people whine and complain and moan about every little change that happens that they interperet as bhvr being biased

[wet spire]

any1 know why i dont have like the bloodweb automatic unlock? is it a glicth

or a bug

[fleet lagoon]

it unlocks after p1 i think

[wet spire]

even the spendblood points thing isnt there

[fleet lagoon]

yeah no autoweb no autolevel no nothing

[wet spire]

hmm ok, its weird bc my friend had it even when he wasnt p1

[barren viper]

You need P1 on anybody to unlock faster spending options across the board

[iron dust]

Oh true

[distant wren]

Coping? You said killers don't get bullied by a perk. I said I witnessed the opposite. The only one coping is YOU. The fact you think a perk should be openly abused to bully people says more about you than me, champ.

[fleet lagoon]

and we will soon be having a head on that can pull out in soloQ

[distant wren]

THANK YOU. My whole point is that there IS a fix for stuff like this, but bhvr refuses to do it. Btw, I'm not a killer main. I'm a survivor main. 💁‍♀️💁‍♀️

[wicked wraith]

stop sending your mr beast scam!

[distant wren]

Haa bhvr addressed ALL of these things? Yes.m, yes they have. They made a, perk baseline to counter tunneling, they bar a calling meter and we're about to get either get another perk as baseline for slugging. You need to stop with these loud and wrong takes 🤣🤣

[runic mica]

https://tenor.com/view/jebaited-low-quality-bait-wavy-man-gif-26402013

[distant wren]

No bait. Sorry you can't look past your bias.

And how shitty are you to think that only survivors deserve a fun game. 🤦‍♀️

[shut jolt]

Why are ppl disconnecting when I use the yellow rabbit skin for Springtrap in the ptb

3 ppl disconnected and got pissed at me in endgame chat 😭

[fleet lagoon]

i came here to farm Last Stand clips, not to play baby games with you!

[runic mica]

i got one on accident cause i forgot i had the perk. i just started laughing when i hear oni get mad

[distant wren]

No one cares about your opinion. You think any criticism of this game is whiny killers. Grow tf up and stfu while you're at it. You're just a entitled survivor main that thinks the world revolves around them. NEWSFLASH, it's a game that BOTH SIDES should be able to enjoy. Signed, a survivor main. (BTW, you suck)

[weak kettle]

Try my Spirit;
Monitor & Abuse, Nowhere to Hide, Languid Touch, Forced Penance
Any addons. I use Juniper Bonsia and anything Charge, move or recharge speed.

[tulip cove]

how long is surv q on ptb?

[wanton shard]

Wait, were they mad at you using the SKIN, or SPRINGTRAP?
If it was for the latter, probably just fatigue, and the desire to see all of the killer changes that were being shown in the PTB. They started que in the PTB for the CHANGES, not the matches themselves

[visual gorge]

why did they not just copy paste meg screams to michonne so we can play it

[shut jolt]

They got mad at me for using the skin

Somebody was apparently using the same skin in the ptb and was doing a annoying play style (I was told)

[ocean karma]

What’s wrong with michonne

[past cairn]

Lmao Reddit level post

[distant wren]

@past cairn says the guy who can't recognize there's toxic swfs. 🙄🙄

[past cairn]

I am not in danger diggity, I am the danger

You just get all your opinions from otzdarva and tryhard the game

Flashlight saves and head on are vital to the game

[past cairn]

That’s like what I do

And how is doing head on toxic

Like wow stunning the killer a couple times is soooo toxic am I right

[regal python]

https://tenor.com/view/chase-icon-chase-icon-bob-chase-icon-lemonade-bob-gif-9679061467782365856

[distant wren]

🤣 admit to being in a toxic swf. Admit to using head on. Don't admit the rest of your team has it and uses it to bully killers. 🤣🤣🤣

[past cairn]

With pride

[regal python]

using a perk = toxic 🤯

[distant wren]

Wya, ho?

[distant wren]

When 3 people abuse a perk, yes it's toxic. 🙄🙄🙄🙄 imagine thinking I'm talking about single queue 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[regal python]

https://tenor.com/view/davidsxkuchi-gif-14433159699180987113

[distant wren]

Stfu, derpy bitch. No one cares about you, either.

[regal python]

🪞

[distant wren]

Aww, that's all you got? Stupid cunt.

Type away, ho.

Gonna cry and get me banned next? 🙄🙄🤣🤣 stupid bitch.

[regal python]

Ngl these pyramid head changes feel so backhanded like they nerf his zoning abilities and then make a shit ton of his addons benefit zoning

[past cairn]

No it’s not toxic

[distant wren]

Awwwwwwwww, you're crying to mods.

[past cairn]

You’re just bad at the game but it’s ok

We all gotta start somewhere

[distant wren]

Stfu, ho.

[past cairn]

You can’t outplay a head on team 😂

[distant wren]

I'm not the killer in question lmao

[past cairn]

Just don’t walk past lockers lmao

[regal python]

Also if scarlet egg goes live…idk what they are thinking honestly

[distant wren]

Hey cunt. Wya? You wanted to be big and bad.

[distant wren]

You're a toxic survivor main. Got it.

[distant wren]

Wya, ho.

[past cairn]

Head on with flashbang, DS and flashlight saves isn’t toxic 🤫

Stomping baby killers is toxic

[distant wren]

You're a bitch. Got it.

[past cairn]

Reddit level response

[distant wren]

Wya, ho.

[past cairn]

I’m so excited for the new perk last stand, even more to add to my roster

[dusty edge]

@distant wren 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[past cairn]

Head on, last stand, DS, flashbang will be my new build

[regal python]

The cc chain build

[past cairn]

Whats cc

[distant wren]

I'm excited that you'll be tunneled. You're trash.

[regal python]

Crowd control

[past cairn]

If you’re in a 4 man team all running the same, then who will get tunneled 😂

[distant wren]

Stfu, cunt. You're trash

[regal python]

Just block the guy and move on babes and let the crew deal with him whenever they do

I already blocked his ass

[past cairn]

We’re having a great intellectual dialogue

I love making my point heard that last stand should be an exhaustion perk

[regal python]

The window stun?

[past cairn]

Ye

[distant wren]

Her, you derpy cunt.

And you don't. Lying cunt.

[regal python]

Lowkey wish it was on a cooldown instead of being disabled after one use

[past cairn]

Ya it’s just a meme perk anyway, it will literally never get actual use

[regal python]

120 seconds would be reasonable honestly

[past cairn]

Like head on, it’s not strong and a waste of a perk slot anyway

[distant wren]

Stfu, cunt.

[regal python]

True its a YouTuber clickbait perk

[past cairn]

I would agree with that

[past cairn]

Imma farm clips with my build

[regal python]

Make it so after fully healing a survivor other than yourself the perk activates and attach a 120 second cd instead of auto disabling it

[past cairn]

When does chapter release? And they should make DS stun for 5 seconds so you can head on stun as well

[distant wren]

Hey ho, why you ignoring me? Did z
I bring up actual concerns.

[past cairn]

Like what? That you can’t stand getting head oned and start raging 😂

[regal python]

Chapters release usually 3 weeks after ptb im pretty sure

[past cairn]

Eh I think a minute in terror radius as the reactivation is good enough

[past cairn]

That’s what like the 28th? Or something there?

[regal python]

Or just make it reset the requirements

[regal python]

Yeah around that timeframe

Honestly a good idea would be make it so after 80 seconds in the killers terror radius the perk activates and once you use it you have to refill it

[valid obsidian]

july 29

[normal perch]

Has anyone tested if last stand will stun snug if he catches you mid vault?

Or will it just damage you like normal

[regal python]

youll just be injured

[wanton shard]

Grimoire is open!! Otherworldly won!!!! Yay!
Personally hoping for either Divine or Parasite for the killer

[hasty ridge]

I think reducing Clown's yellow bottle activation to 1 second was a mistake. Takes way less skill/thought now.

[brazen pond]

how long does vault stun have to hit?

[trail grove]

How to fix clowns power

1. combine both effects of the bottles into one
2. clown gets one bottle
   this way now the clowns bottles are more skilled and work better for loops

the dual system always felt so stupid since if you just increase the slow from pink then you would just use pink and now pink got nerfed and yellow got mega buffed its the same story but now you only use yellow

also fog vials should be changed to a charge system since no survivor item should be infinite especially due to how powerful they are on certain killers

[soft folio]

When does the ptb end?

[robust crater]

hm i just thought the clown should get his old hinder but getting his speed buffed. because it doesnt make sense for a low to mid tier killer to not get a straight upgrade and an A tier killer (pyhead) does

[tranquil zealot]

The problem is they needed the pink bottles to get people to use yellow. They should've just buffed the yellow and kept the pink the same imo. You get to have what you want and clown players can still enjoy their killer

[robust crater]

yes and also the yellow might end up used less now thanks to it being bigger by stronger players.

[tranquil zealot]

They're trying a little too hard to make this game casual..survivors don't play casually unless they're like ash or extremely low hours. After around a thousand they know the drill.

[robust crater]

from both the design and ballance it doesnt make sense, design i already mentioned, but clown shouldnt be just a brainless speed andy. and making this game casual RIGHT after being hyperfocused on tryhard swfs?

[tranquil zealot]

Its just needs to be competitive like akin to Overwatch or something.

[robust crater]

i have heard of so many changes boiling down to "its barely affecting solos but its strong for swfs"

all that ends up doing is a more slow and painful death to the killer role.

[tranquil zealot]

I've already said in discussions too its miserable to play killer right now. I can't find any success without playing Kaneki or some other higher tier killer.

[signal eagle]

The change for clown is seemingly more geared towards how absolutely miserable he is to play against and how mindless he is to actually play, rather than a change made for balance reasons. Either way, I think they somehow chose the one option that fixes none of the issues and still is a net nerf

[robust crater]

and you end up getting responses like "get better" or "gen slowdown spam" and the people who have the power to speak up (hens, otz) dont do that usually, since they want to cater towards survivors, like the devs

[tranquil zealot]

He wasn't mindless to play before. Its just people genuinely not understanding his kit. If you play clown with only purple bottles you just suck it clown.

[robust crater]

besides MABY addons like that finger and the scream thing. he isnt that mindless you gotta aim those bottles fairly well to get the most use out of them

[tranquil zealot]

I don't really agree with the creator comments. Its their jobs and it isn't their fault. I don't think the devs are to be insulted, but they need actual genuine feedback from people and sometimes they just ignore it for numbers.

[signal eagle]

Clown is absolutely mindless. The only difference between a good clown and a bad one is knowing the trajectory of bottles and remembering to use yellow ones, which takes all but a few matches to learn

His gameplay loop is almost always "throw pink bottle at loop, throw yellow when you need to cross map." There is no additional depth, there is no nuance, there is no zoning

[robust crater]

i havent insulted them, just said how it is.

[robust crater]

yes but saying a killer is mindless just because he is simple. is trapper, wraith, michael mindless for example?

[tranquil zealot]

No no... A good clown knows yellow and pink placements. They both matter in a chase anf is the difference between extending a chase and ending it quickly. A yellow can be used in that way but it is not the only tech and reason to use the yellows.

[signal eagle]

Trapper, wraith and michael all have power interaction for survivor beyond feeding pallets, it's a combination of both aspects

[signal eagle]

So again, you're saying the nuance to his power is learning how to throw bottles at loops

There's a few very niche situations where yellow is better, but his skill ceiling is insanely low regardless and he has no power interactivity

[tranquil zealot]

Thats takes skill actual knowledge and practice. The best clowns can throw pinks and yellows before they even get to a tile long enough for Survivors to run them. Its planning ahead and placement.

[robust crater]

a killer already lost his "mindless" status if he is mid tier at best but besides that. his skill sceiling lies with how to throw those bottles since direct hits help you WAY more than proxy hits. and also you have to have hignsight for the clown

and hignsight is a very underrated yet very difficult skill to learn

did i even say hignsight correctly?

[signal eagle]

So the skill cap for clown is... knowing where survivors plan to run in chase? So like the most basic thing a killer should be keeping track of in a match?

Like the trajectory of bottles I can understand, but that doesn't take more than a couple hours to actually learn, which is basically nothing

[tranquil zealot]

You'd be surprised how much time it takes to get that down perfectly.

[robust crater]

i feel like he never has played a ranged killer before

[signal eagle]

But clown is so forgiving that the difference between a hit bottle and a missed bottle is very little

I can play huntress and feel punished when I miss. I can play clown and still hit in most situations even if I'm not landing them because there's a huge hinder aoe

You're acting like there's a huge difference between a clown who can hit bottles and a clown who just throws them at loops mindlessly, and there very rarely is a situation that they're not the same thing

[robust crater]

hm what do you think about the unknowns projectile or springtraps axe?

[tranquil zealot]

It may be a very little difference but the thing is most of the time survivors know how yo counter clown. It takes way more skill to counter their counter.

[swift otter]

[signal eagle]

I haven't played springtrap but I know the trajectory, and I have played unknown a bit when he released but he isn't for me

[robust crater]

wait what? how? you didnt got the drawing

[signal eagle]

I can't recall very many situations in any of my time playing where a direct bottle would make for a hit where missing and getting hinder wouldn't

[swift otter]

I’m good at making reads

[robust crater]

no i meant the killer instinct. am i forgetting something or cant you just get that from the aura?

[swift otter]

Ohhh I’m not sure

Maybe cause I hit her and we weren’t in chase technically?

[robust crater]

oh makes sense

[swift otter]

I’m ngl I have no clue

[tranquil zealot]

It really depends on how good the survivor is good as managing their resources like pallets and general cover, and depleting yours. I've had a lot of situatiosn where they'll dodge out of the way or bottles or even run to another jungle gym or some kind of cover and they waste my resources by doing iy.

[signal eagle]

But that's not you doing anything, that's the survivor knowing the counterplay

That's you just having decent aim with bottles and survivors reacting to the bottles

The only thing you could possibly convince me on is hitting bottles over tiles, which basically nobody does because there's rarely a reason to

[tranquil zealot]

Hence my problem he isn't brainless to play. He takes macro and micro to know how to be the most efficient, but he's consistently weak. This nerf makes you turn your brain off because you can now only use yellow bottles. Before he uses both in synergy and its about finding the the perfect spot to do that.

[signal eagle]

He was just as brainless before, even if marginally less so

If all a killer takes to learn is the bare minimum knowledge you'd need on any killer, and playing them at their absolute best is only marginally better, that's not a killer that takes a brain to play

I will agree that I hate the most recent changes, but he's just as annoying and easy to play both before and after

[tranquil zealot]

High tier killers are brainless to play. They have so many working parts that it doesnt matter what you master or play around with they will always get somebody. Clown requires so much reliance on his power..placement, macro, micro. Its a lot harder to play clown than it is to play a higher tier killer. He is incredibly brainless now when he wasn't before. He had a really nice balance before.

He was weak and easy to pick up but hard to master. I fear not the man who has practiced 1,000 different kicks, I fear the man who has practiced one kick 1,000 times.

[signal eagle]

It's harder to play clown because he sucks, but there is no world where you can convince me that the loop of "throw pink bottle at loop > remove pallet > chase to next loop and use yellow bottle when needed" is somehow skillful when the most difficult thing to learn is the macrogame that every killer needs to learn

There's the occasional tech or interesting thing for nuanced situations I'm sure, but there's basically no clown players that ever use them so they don't exist

[tranquil zealot]

Because clown players barely exist in the first place. Its the same problem with Hag or Plagur or whatever. Those killers have low pick rates and people play them casually. If you go up against a good clown who has mastered it all you are constantly thinking and planning ahead.

[signal eagle]

Yes, again like every killer needs to do. There isn't a single killer where you aren't planning ahead on "hey this person will go here" or "I expect them to do this."

Your argument for him needing to anticipate what a survivor is intending to do is like the bare minimum for any killer in the game, and the fact that his power benefits a bit more than any other killer from it doesn't really change that

[tranquil zealot]

The problem is the players playing clown. Clown himself is not brainless is my argument.

[robust crater]

i cant argue anything here but take ghoul out of consideration for xilverias first sentence

[signal eagle]

I mean ghoul was just poorly designed

[tranquil zealot]

Ghoul is just knowing distance and basic chase. He will always win because he's designed for that.

[signal eagle]

Though that really is the problem. If the difference between a good clown and a bad one is so minimal that nobody ever bothers to learn more, is that really good design?

Because like I said, I'm sure there is some things you can learn, but the fact that you don't need to and can get just about the same exact amount of value is very poor power design

[tranquil zealot]

Sure. I guess.

[robust crater]

anyway the changes of the ptp are mostly shows how the killers get f* all in terms of content. yeah the changes to the knight are nice and pig is just a nothingburger of a change. but the rest are redicolous for the wrong reason. also when hex totems rework devs?1

[edgy pollen]

The changes to the Knight's banners needs to be reverted, otherwise all his gameplay is reduced to pinser chases with zero counter play. He will have zero macro support with his guards being able to do jack all.

Other than that, his quality of life buffs are nice. The nerfs are not needed.

[hidden shale]

What kind of perks would you use for a oblivious pyramid head build?

[signal eagle]

I mean pig and ph were overall positive, but just about everything else is horrible.

I disagree with the whole "bhvr only likes survivors" stuff, but they very clearly had no clue what they were doing

[robust crater]

no they like killer, its just that they focused way to much on scewed data now survivor is overall stronger than killer. And arguments like "but you can pick a top tier" or "just do gen slow downs" dont really count for me because of course the meta works well. doesnt mean the lower tier killers and more niche builds have to suffer so hard / have to be so weak with how the current gameplay loop is.

[spare cedar]

did furtive get buffed in the ptb or no

[spare cedar]

I agree

[steady granite]

i wish the map had more features/locations instead of an empty wooded area 💔

[fleet lagoon]

what

[signal eagle]

I mean it's not a new map

It's a test for the new tile they plan to have spawning for the new survivors, of which has its own issues regarding allowing certain map generations based on the survivors playing

[autumn mirage]

Agree, he is legion 2.0 his leap is good but its actual use and marked thing is just a bad idea

I LOVE Kaneki but cant enjoy Ghoul gameplay

[empty obsidian]

Clown main here, imma say this clown sucks badly right now but this build I’m working on is nuts,stbfl still good and im still perfecting the build but boy there’s been some good ass survivors lately

having to reload bottles is probably the worst part of his kit especially after hooking someone

they should make it if you hook someone you gain bottles back or something

[open wraith]

For a big guy Clown sure is a fast runner

[spare cedar]

Legion op

[autumn mirage]

Bro...

[spare cedar]

deadass bro have you used his iridescent pallet break add on?

[spare cedar]

picture this okay you spot a survivor activate frenzy and secure a safe hit, getting a hit in frenzy restarts the timer so when you unfrenzy it'll take 1-3 seconds to regain frenzy

you follow them for about 2-3 seconds get infront/near them and deactivate frenzy

if they get near a pallet your frenzy will be ready so bait a pallet drop activate frenzy vault immediately and break it

after you vault get closer to the survivor for 2-3 seconds, deactivate frenzy and do the same thing again basically rendering any loop useless and if you pair it with bamboozle you make any vault loop useless now too

[spare cedar]

using the iri add on

[spare cedar]

forget to specify you hit them and THEN follow for 2-3 seconds and deactivate

[robust crater]

he actually was kinda gifted in sports as you see his story

[steady granite]

so the fallen refuge isnt a new map...

[cloud jolt]

Clown and springtrap seem to be pretty fast for vaulting. Especially considering Springtrap is a rotting corpse in a suit.

[ancient spire]

You know the implication of Rick Grimes in his hospital gown implies that version of Rick Grimes didn’t get a chance to see a Walker

He probably just thinks the Entity is some kind of coma dream

[fleet lagoon]

you'd be surprised how a dead person can move

[tawny plover]

oh my god i legit saw like a 2x vault speed build

[signal eagle]

@stable epoch

scam if it's not somehow blatantly obvious

[dusty edge]

✅➡️ [NO DM] Banned stitches_horror with reason compromised acc
(1 ban(s) on record | 4 total logs)

[coarse yarrow]

Oop

[pearl hare]

Sup btw did yall knew that hangmans trick + jagged compads can create basicaly infinite scourge hooks? Its preety fun ngl

[void needle]

Everyone knew that from the moment Jagged Compass was introduced .

[pearl hare]

Yes but there ya can have more than 4 i mean

With that perk hangmans trick
Others only 4

Or i know wrong? idk

[void needle]

Only Jagged Compass is able to create scourge hooks from regular hooks. Hangman's Trick doesn't have that effect.

[pearl hare]

I know just i saw when running the 2 that there was more than 4 scourge hooks
Everytime jagged compass activated

[void needle]

That happens with every scourge hook perk you run next to Jagged Compass 🤷

[pearl hare]

Weird i could swore this was different
Well then i gues i am wrong here and therr

Anyways whatyall think of hangmans buff? (Its aura gone from 10-16)

I say its gonna
HANG in there

[worn bobcat]

Don’t ever make that joke again. That was so bad it hurt me physically

I’m dying rn

[autumn olive]

hello, can anyone share some in game filters for the game? i`m killer main

[limber tiger]

There is a gamma setting if you need help seeing c:

[meager oracle]

This is a common misconception. Springtrap is haunting the animatronic. His old corpse just also happens to be pinned inside the suit by 87 different springlocks embedded in its flesh

[autumn olive]

i know abot the gama, but ther is o so this Alt f3 ajustmante. I was asking about that.

[terse crypt]

Can anyone tell me where the patch notes are that saying kbm is coming to console? Or is it bs?

[viral marsh]

This shit dead ass hell I luv it

Dead game dead chat dead everything

I would recommend u guys get into a game called Apex Legend it’s a lot better more fun more easier and not a dead game btw

[hidden shale]

This whole text was absolute cap

If you said snow was white you'd be wrong then too

[rotund wave]

how do we feel about the pyramidhead changes

[trail grove]

pyramid head is the only good change

everything else was terrible, gutted knight to hell and back

[steady ruin]

how is making his control path longer, faster and shit like that gutted to hell? i dont get it

[trail grove]

banner times

since due to the banner times being sped up it basically means the survivor just needs to loop the guard once then boom its useless

its either you guard the guards banner or you waste 6 seconds max of the survivors time

[steady ruin]

I have 1.3k hours and have never touched a banner in my life

[trail grove]

thats the point

the banner is meant to be a reward for properly looping a guard

the changes are gonna make it so if your at a single tile you can just run around it once then boom you get the banner

plus they nerfed the jailer and assassin but buffed the carifix in the worse way

carifix is for breaking pallets not patroling yet they increased his patrol paths

to put it simply your anti loop is now your main patroller

and your main patrollers are now basically worthless due to how fast their banners spawn

[sinful lodge]

Do yall think they should have added a zombie killer to go along with the walking dead update ?

[low quarry]

Nah cause we previously had two solo killer chapters, plus twd as survivors is more than good enough imo

[trail grove]

no because there is no good character for it [before anyone says negan, hes just a guy who spreads the infection using his weapon he doesnt control the zombies]

if we ever get a zombie killer it should be an actual zombie or atleast a necromancer, having it be just some guy would be super disapointing

[ashen dove]

.

[barren viper]

Walking Dead walkers aren't threatening at all, that's like making a Nemesis zombie a killer

[hallow chasm]

I'd love to see what lore reasons someone would create for Negan, The Governor, Simon, or any other significant antagonist in TWD, for any of them being a DbD killer.

[barren viper]

DBD hasn't really added anybody who's just "really evil human", with I suppose the 1 exception kinda being Trickster.

Everyone else is some kind of monster, or warped by the entity, or has special powers.

[vapid oyster]

and Amanda ❤️

[barren viper]

Fair point!

[merry kite]

did ptb end or is it still on?

[jolly mantle]

still on ig

[merry kite]

thank u

[limber tiger]

Mikey doesnt count?

[barren viper]

He's like a whole deeper layer of evil

Even in his movies he isn't just Guy With Knife, he has some kind of "connection to pure evil" and can't be killed.

Basically he's supernatural.

What I'm trying to say is, killers in DBD are almost never "normal person who does bad things". Amanda, Ghostface, and Trickster are the few exceptions.

[limber tiger]

Trapper?

He's not really evil ig

He resisted tne entity

[cloud jolt]

Kinda the same with springtrap. We all know how bad he can get

[sinful lodge]

Well I was thinking along the lines of that guy from the one show planet z or whatever where he can control the zombies telepathically but the killer would be a mega zombie that can send out hordes to chase you and zone you

[barren viper]

So you're telling me

Plants vs Zombies Zomboss as a killer

[spice topaz]

What is ptb

[barren viper]

$ptb

[dusty edge]

Learn about PTBs here: :link: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/358-ptbs

[spice topaz]

Oh

[pearl hare]

and crazy dave as survivor

ngl this game is becoming cursed
and i love it

[barren viper]

LOL

[shadow mauve]

Anyone up for playing hide and seek with me and a friend in custom mode?

Oop, wrong channel

[robust crater]

they should have nerfed weave attunement instead of gutting franklins. because there is another option for that: the twins perk hoarder

[white onyx]

Franklins weave isn't a strong combo

I think franklins was just nerfed because it was considered boring/unfun

[weary merlin]

i mean the new version is even more boring/unfun. it does nothing

[white onyx]

Which is why it most likely wont go through

[crude dirge]

beta would be pretty cool

[wispy cape]

I NEED this collab asap

Also I did not know this was a thing! When did this channel get added?

[void needle]

<@&480465015267262484> BRING DOWN THE HAMMER

(also why is Elemental not picking these up? )

https://tenor.com/view/thor-avengers-banned-discord-ban-hammer-gif-16215287

[wooden yacht]

is conviction a one time use? or reactivatable when you heal another survivor again? or just always active after healing someone once?

[vestal glen]

I think we need an actual dark night time map, make it so the flashlight is used to not just stun but to improve visibility, surely some sort of killer can be added with a map in which it’s really dark

[dusty edge]

@tough wind 🚫➡️ Your message content contains flagged text

[white onyx]

Reactivatable

[white onyx]

Since the games released dbd has only gotten brighter, because being hard to see is no longer a wanted feature of the game, and having a single map tied to a single item is something dbd doesnt want to do, as its the kind of rng that just isnt seen as fair or fun

[wooden yacht]

thanks!

[carmine nimbus]

No skull merchant buffs = bad ptb

[iron cloak]

We need Rain face rework🫵🏼

[white onyx]

We need to rework the perk that rewards 4 hooking?

[proven sequoia]

nerf pig

[proven cradle]

SM won't get anything until their rework

[iron cloak]

What

[white onyx]

Wdym what

[iron cloak]

Rain the survivor she needs a face rework

[white onyx]

Nope. Im going to bed. I refuse to believe i read rains face as pain res

[white onyx]

<@&480465015267262484>

[dusty edge]

✅➡️ [NO DM] Banned thesaint699 with reason NSFW server invite
(1 ban(s) on record | 4 total logs)

[jolly fog]

Thanks

[trail grove]

honestly that could work since pvz zombies can serve multiple functions it would just require alot of redesigning

since you cant have cartoony zombies in dbd since we already know from kankei that anime characters will be made to look more like real humans

[carmine nimbus]

Wich is in 2026

[still crest]

just read the patch notes, does that mean the rainbow map is gone?

[void needle]

Yes, the now-Rainbow Map will be downgraded one rarity level, the regular map too, and a new map is added on the lowest rarity level. Their effects are being reworked too.

[still crest]

thank you!

[hallow chasm]

What if it was when Franklin's was first introduced, where each time the item got dropped from being hit, it lost charges?

[chilly shuttle]

I’m worried about those fog vials man

Something is just screaming at me that this won’t end well

[livid arrow]

Yes

[green jackal]

did they just managed to make pink key worse

skeleton, ultrarrare, visceral, dc

thye just took the wallhack and made the killer be able to see you when you use it

whats the point tho

[river kernel]

to take chase

[grave pier]

Can’t believe last stand is turning out to be even better than initially thought

[signal eagle]

It's just because they somehow bugged the vault animation lol

Last stand is garbage if it worked as intended, but resilience vaulting speed when healthy is kinda busted

[grave pier]

Resilience plus QnQ

[signal eagle]

Yeahh

idk how they somehow made a new vault animation and didn't consider standardizing it to the normal speed

[hallow chasm]

Vigil should not affect Exposed.

[signal eagle]

I mean
The perk is made to broadly work on all status, so I disagree

It would be weird to make it not work on exposed of all things

The perk needs to not stack with multiple instances of itself and maybe not be 30%, sure, but fundamentally picking out one effect out of all of them would be weird

[hallow chasm]

But buffs like to Hubris don't matter since one perk, Vigil, makes the status effect last below pre-buff status.

[signal eagle]

Vigil isn't horribly common, and even if it were, that's how dbd perks work

There's perks that counter perks, perks that counter powers, powers that counter perks, it's just how the game goes. Complaining about just one that isn't even too horribly common is just a weird thing to cherrypick

A situation where someone gets exposed from hubris, is up against someone with vigil that is actually in range, and doesn't get hit in 21 seconds but does get hit in 30 seconds is very unlikely (especially considering most people using hubris use perks/powers that can take advantage of it). Gutting the interactions it has with something like dramaturgy over a situation that you'll almost never encounter would be stupid

[little flame]

do u have to not be in chase for the stun vault perk to work

[signal eagle]

No, it just has a weird hitbox that can either work in your favor or make it completely miss

But if you hit it it'll work in or out of chase

Also last stand is weirdly a faster vault speed than the base vault animation

[little flame]

ty

[simple halo]

what do people think of the changes so far? seem very surv sided IMO, but curious as to the larger thoughts here

[signal eagle]

Definitely far too survivor sided, to the point where I'm worried about the imbalance the chapter will bring. There's a lot of good changes in there, but then a lot of just absolutely horrible ones alongside them

[simple halo]

Having trouble finding the good, except for a couple small things. That, combined with all the anti-slugging/camping/tunneling/playing changes, make this a really lopsided past few months

[hallow chasm]

Conviction should be disabled in end game, have recovery threshold be 50%, and not grant endurance if used to recover off the ground.

[signal eagle]

I mean the ph/pig changes are good, the ability for survivors to give up after 2 missed checks for hatch plays is good, fog vial and most of the item updates are good (albeit needs a bit of tweaking still), some of the perk changes are good, and the qol for loadouts is good. The problem is the rest, like the nerfs to certain killers/perks that shouldn't happen, or just whatever in the world they did with last stand/conviction as far as new perks go

[hallow chasm]

Last Stand should only stun if the Killer is on the other side of the vault/pallet.

[signal eagle]

Yeah, that perk as a whole is just bad design. Standing up in 6 seconds with no real limit is too strong

[simple halo]

Seems like the PH changes at least are double-edged. Also do you think vials should be rechargable? and the keys, with all the other perks it's outta control, IMO

[signal eagle]

I mean ph in general is a positive, the fact that he can't tunnel anymore is a complaint for people who didn't play him for his actual power

[hallow chasm]

Knight got a bit overnerfed with the Standard spawn changes.

[signal eagle]

And I do think vials should be rechargable, it's just currently too much, hence the tweaking

[signal eagle]

Agreed

[signal eagle]

I mean last stand as far as the stunning goes is fine considering it's once per match, with that kind of limit it doesn't need to be hard to land. My real issue is that the base vault speed is increased by 15% or so once you have the perk charged

[hallow chasm]

Only thing I would change for Knight is have guards not be able to detect Survivors if they were sent to kick a generator, like if they stand still when the action is sent.

[signal eagle]

I mean knight in general just needed the qol and he was fine, because the buffs would've incentivized people to play him a bit less lame, fixing the issue they were trying to fix. The issue is that making jailor useless makes it so that knight is very bad if you aren't just reverting back to that same boring playstyle

[hallow chasm]

Clown's best add-on in the Cigar Box was nerfed into the ground.

[signal eagle]

I mean clown in general just got the skull merchant treatment, just instead of being completely useless he'll just be annoying

[hallow chasm]

How?

[signal eagle]

It's hard to properly explain, but more or less they've dummed his ability down to just spamming yellow bottles onto yourself so you move as fast as legion

Skull merchant was perhaps an overexaggeration on how they gutted him, but they did kinda gut him completely

With how strong moving 12-15% faster can be, I don't think it'll be completely bad, but at the same time I think it'll just lead to boring playstyles on both sides, and clown will be dumbed down to just an m1 killer that can move marginally faster

I'm a certified clown hater and even I feel bad for the treatment he's getting in this rework

[hallow chasm]

"When it comes to The Clown’s power, his purple bottles see much more use than his yellow ones across skill levels." Because they are better.

[signal eagle]

Well they are, currently. Not once hinder is reduced to 1s and the hinder itself is dropped to 12%

[hallow chasm]

12% is still pretty alright.

[signal eagle]

12% is alright until you realize you gain more distance with yellow bottles now that they're buffed to 12%

So there's no point in ever using a purple bottle except maybe in niche situations where you want to stop a survivor from w-keying and if they'd actually reach a tile without the hinder

[hallow chasm]

They should unnerf the purple bottles.

[signal eagle]

I mean I think he'd still be annoying to play against, but that would be a good change

Encourages actual skill expression instead of mindless purple bottles on loops

[hallow chasm]

Or give his yellow bottles more effects instead of increasing haste.

Like maybe while Invigorated, you kick gens and break pallets faster.

Or do any action faster.

[signal eagle]

That would be cool

actually I kinda like that idea

But overall they kinda just make purple bottles completely pointless by making the hinder so short, on top of being less valuable than just popping a haste instead

[hallow chasm]

Don't incentivize use of the yellow bottle by making the purple bottle worse.

[signal eagle]

I mean ultimately both bottles need to have a use. If anything, I think it'd be cool to see him be more resource-management with both yellow and purple being good, rather than just mindless "this bottle is better" throwing at the ground/loop and eating pallets

[hallow chasm]

Make direct hits of purple bottles give more hindered, reward the Clown for good aim/bottle placement.

[signal eagle]

I think that's already a thing

[hallow chasm]

No.

[signal eagle]

I'm not too horribly experienced with clown but someone told me it was

They could have just been wrong tbh, I was only told that like yesterday and I don't play against or as clown much

[hallow chasm]

Rick's perks are mediocre, sadness.

[simple halo]

Well, he is too, so it tracks.

[raven flume]

🐏

[hallow chasm]

How loud or stealthy are Rick and Michonne?

[trail grove]

well what could possibly go wrong with an item that allows survivors to effectively walk away from a chase for free, wait for a recharge then use it again? sounds perfectly balanced to me

[woeful wagon]

please no nerf pyramid head addons when it is released

[trail grove]

https://tenor.com/view/five-nights-at-freddys-fnaf-josh-hutcherson-matthew-lillard-elizabeth-lail-gif-3509032916742560442

its perfect first i nerf the clown

now I nerf the killer I just buffed

bhvr interactive my friend

[woeful wagon]

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 please no i wait long time

[trail grove]

this is a plan give em a big buff and rip it away, extracts the most negative emotions, feeding bhvr the entitys top dog

[woeful wagon]

Damn entity 🤬🤬🤬🤬

[spring locust]

How good is walking dead perks

[fleet lagoon]

swf perks

[signal eagle]

Mostly bad without coordination, but last stand is horribly buggy to the point of being absolutely broken and conviction is somewhere in the range of absolutely useless to wayyyy too strong depending on your teammates

[fleet lagoon]

what's the bug related to last stand?

[signal eagle]

The vault animation is faster than the default one and can stack with resilience, meaning you can have a base vault speed of .8 (as opposed to the usual 1) with last stand and then stack it with resi to have a vault speed of about .65

[rich elk]

.

[fleet lagoon]

fast vaults are not 1s but I get it

[signal eagle]

For mediums, the effect applies to fast faults too but the reason this is important to note is because you get the safety of a fast vault even with a medium

[fleet lagoon]

is it like finesse where your hitbox shoots farther than the model

[signal eagle]

It's kinda like free finesse yeah, and weirdly finesse doesn't actually change the vault speed or animation at all even though it'll go on cooldown when paired

tldr the animation is bugged to the point of making it the best looping perk in the game if it stays as it is in the ptb

[fleet lagoon]

yeah the last m1 in the clip should definitely hit lol