Monetisation in SB.

[storm abyss]

I am a huge fan of how Starborne is free-to-play... because if it wasn't, I would have never played this awesome game. Unfortunately, there is a pay-to-win element in Starborne. However, the devs do have to earn their money somehow... but I believe they've gone about it the wrong way.

I propose shutting down the store. No more platinum, no more booster packs, no more premium etc. This will remove all aspects of pay-to-win from Starborne, and hence the winner of any server will be the best alliance no matter what. There will be no more servers determined by whoever can throw the most money at the game. Though having said that, devs need to make money somehow... which is where my proposed solution comes in.

When I say shut down the store... this does not mean Factions. The difference between Factions and the store is that when you pay for a faction, you are paying to play SB a different way rather than paying for an advantage. However, currently factions won't rake in enough money to sustain SC. This is why SB should develop new factions on top of the currently existing 6. If I look at games I've played in the past... Twilight Imperium (TI) stands out as one (though it is a board game). TI, though it is quite different to SB, has 3 times as many factions as SB (4x if you include the expansion), which meant you could play the game in a variety of different ways.

SC should follow this example and create more factions. Adding a lot of factions may seem daunting, but there are many different possibilities. Destroyers, Gunships, Carriers, Troop Carriers and Dreadnoughts don't have their "own" faction yet. You could also make a faction which focuses on speed, or a faction which focuses on defending, or a faction which allows you to supply labour to your alliance members. These are all just suggestions.

This itself won't be enough however. I would propose to increase the cost of factions, as well as add a cheaper option which allows you to use a faction for a server...

[red vector]

I like the new part of these suggestions. I don’t think it’s viable long term or short term to shut down the basic store items though.

I would add that you should make tier 2 and tier 3 factions you can evolve into at level 20 and 40, provided you have purchased or rented them from the store

Finally renting factions should come with a rent to own scheme in place, so each time you rent a faction for a server, you also reduce the future purchase price by 50% of the cost of the rental

[storm abyss]

Another point I was going to make (but I reached the word limit), was this shut down in store could also be supplemented by adding in custom servers. Obviously you would have to pay for these custom servers... and the question boils down to who pays... the organiser of the server or everyone pays a small fee on entry. These servers you could have your choice of map, and you also get to choose the length of the server.

[red vector]

Might want to split that into a separate suggestion though, just to keep them clean on the discussion

[honest sun]

I love the thought process from Ols here. I would like build on this sentiment. Starborne is like a mobile game, but taken to another level of depth and complexity. It is fantastic, but the underlying concepts are comparable to many mobile games, such as Clash of Clans. If the devs look at what Supercell did there, that game is very effectively monetised but without a blatant P2W element.

To apply this to Starborne, I would suggest they could replace store income in its current format by increasing the depth and variety of options around things such as policy and card upgrades (as well as factions per original post), and better monetising these areas. Make it so expensive to fully upgrade everything that nobody ever will (because there would be so many options, not because each transaction is extortionate) which would lead to specialisation, and the door would always be open to introducing further levels or options of cards/policies.

Finally, leave the cosmetic upgrades in the store and maybe build on these non-P2W character/station personalisation options, which already seem popular. Loving the game so far, would be fantastic to see it fulfil its huge potential.

[red vector]

It's been a long time since I played Clash, but the analogy breaks down hard because CoC isn't a RTS/Battle Royale type of game like Starborne is. If you get clowned in regular CoC play, you lose a bit of resources and get a shield to keep you safe for a while after, if you lose in a clan war, you clan loses some ranking points, but you are otherwise unharmed. If you drop money on CoC you get to advance in time, so you can play at a different level with other players at the same tier as you, and if you get your ass handed to you repeatedly, you drop in ranking until you get easy targets once more.

In Starborne, early advantage translates into early domination which translates into mid and late game advantages. This is kind of the crux of the issue with P2W. Too much advantage early game translates into an insurmountable advantage later on, because the game is about snowballing.

[honest sun]

I entirely agree with your conclusion Grubsnik. Maybe ignore the CoC analogy if it doesn't work for you and focus instead on the SB related points raised. I think we're on the same page.

[red vector]

I think the original suggestion of adding more faction options is solid, potentially with adding T2 and T3 level factions like I mentioned, at a higher price point, you don't have to upgrade, but it will be sitting there just asking you if you want to get the upgraded Terran combine faction that unlocks battle-indies at lvl 20 for just 20 USD, or 5USD if you only want it for the rest of the server.

[violet lagoon]

Did you say battle indies?

I'm in

Didn't realize the slow mode, lol

But yh, more factions would be great. Especially if there was one for each ship in the game

[storm abyss]

I think the overall point of this is so SB isn't pay-to-win... So I would be against adding T2 and T3 factions if all it did was give extra buffs, and hence an advantage. However... one possible solution is that each faction could get buff slots, and when you purchased T2 of a faction, you got more choices of different buffs which you can apply to your empire. However, these buffs would not be better or worse than the T1 buffs... just allows you to play the game in a different way.

[violet lagoon]

As for what factions they could implement. There are already 4 other factions in the starborne lore they could implement:
Marauders, binderburg, gelecek and the everliving. Just need to give them a special ship, and some faction buffs and you're good to go🤷‍♂️

[stuck hearth]

that is not just, there is lot of math involved to keep it all balanced 🤷‍♂️

[violet lagoon]

True. But they can figure that out when/if they get around to it😆

I don't expect them to get it perfectly balanced the first try, but even now you could say not all the factions are balanced, so they could introduce new factions and balance the current ones at the same time

[red vector]

There are different roles and different factions that can fulfill each of those roles with more or less success. The important part is that each of the factions remain useful and relevant for. some roles, even if particular factions might be more broadly successfull

[proper stream]

Skill > Wallet. The monetisation in SB is pretty good imo. No need to find excuses 😇
(Only caveat is perhaps spending build Rs on the first hours.)

[slow stone]

You re buying the factions throughout the game. That s like 45 euros. And you re paying like 5 euros per month for the starter pack / battle pass. Compared to lots of other games thats already overpriced. (And pls don t bother me with those trashy new mobile games, that seriously charge you 100s of euros. That s not a game, just a disgusting scam.)

The store should be shutdown! It gives an insanely unfair advantage to those that are spending lots of money. And there should be no unfair advantages/disadvantages in a MMORTS! Imagine the dissatisfaction of a new player, that looses all of his hard built stations to a payer after 2 weeks.

And yes starborne is heavy pay2win. No need to discuss.

[red vector]

If you want to go whale-killing, you need to set out bait first.

[stuck hearth]

just make more money smh

[storm abyss]

May I just point out the fact that if 2 people have the same skill level, but one spends $$$, then the one that spent will win... I completely agree with the fact that a bad player with $$$ will lose to a good player with none.

However the key point I want to make is that SB should be about who's the most skilled, not who's the most skilled AND who can put in more money than the opposition.

[slow stone]

3 years ago:
--> 15 euro subscription model
--> spiral maps
--> 3 months servers
--> player count 5000 (combined)

now:
--> 5 euro subscription model
--> Smaller maps
--> 1 months servers
--> player count 400 (comined)

Yngvi once said that he is a marketing manager. Seriously, I ve never seen such successful DEmarketing on such a good product. GJ!

Solid clouds should sign up for eu climate subsidies.... Lowering demand of your own product so heavily shows some true environmental responsibility!

[violet lagoon]

And that's why if we want to change that, we need to find more successful monetisation methods for the game.

Skins for the various ships would be nice, but I feel after a while, the sale of those would slow down, as people buy up all the skins they'd want to. Unless they regularly introduce new skins, or the playerbase expands continuously, both of which I don't think is likely to happen past a certain point.

So there needs to be something that a player can purchase regularly in order for a constant stream of income.

I think they could keep the starter pack after making some tweaks to it. They could change the premium benefits as well. Mostly make commod caches give 4 regardless of premium or not. I think the extra queue time is fine to keep, as well as the research speed boost. The extra daily rewards are fine as well I think. Those do not give an intense boost over someone who didn't get the pack. Though it would still give an advantage, and thus incentive to get the pack.

The credit pack should just be removed imo.

Not sure what i think about the other 2 packs, or being able to purchase build R's.

But what do I know, I'm not a professional

[proper stream]

Alright that's pretty funny but real talk for a sec. I haven't played much Starborne back in the days but I distinctly remember quitting because ultimately it may have been a giant map with 5k players (and what a nice spiral map btw), but all those 5k players had only ONE goal that could only be completed by a coalition of 3 alliances so 48 players. If you weren't in those lucky 48 well you basically had nothing to do.

And with 3 months map it's not like you could have a go at it every two weeks.

So looking at it this way, I would like to suggest the exact opposite: Maybe the fault doesn't lie in Yngvi's decision but rather in the fact that it didn't come sooner.

(Just my two cents)

[red vector]

The core issue with SB is that it has never been profitable. Even in the days with massive spiral map, SC was still burning money. The business plan was that if you could get enough people paying €5 or €15 per server, they would go in the black, but reality is, they tried that and it failed.

They also hoped to get something from unique profile pictures, station explosions and borders, but again, it didn't even pay for the artist that made them. So the only "viable" angle seems to be whalefarming. Accepting that a server is 95% F2P people, and then have the top 5 players throw money at SC until they get back in the black.

[proper stream]

Current starborne monetization heavily provides diminishing returns.

Sure the 5€ pack is very impactful, but it's also the least expensive, and frankly it's a bit confusing that some players would suggest that they could play "for free" on such a server-heavy game.

Beyond that, the 9.99 pack is nice to stack some build Rs very early, but I wouldn't find it worth its while beyond the first few days at most.

And beyond that, the 19.99 pack if you rush build Rs, you could probably only add 33% buildings points on top of what you have.

So the way I describe it is: Beyond a 15€ investment per game, it's a whale trap.

Is it 100% fully equal to pay and not pay, obviously not. But when you assume that a game "costs" 5€ as the base level, that base level compared to the more expensive spenders, is pretty darn close imo :)

And it's really the only thing worth discussing really, because a fully f2p server, or a f2p server for the first 15 days ain't gonna happen, no way lol

[slow stone]

With some creativity you can find a positive interpretation of everything 👌

[native oak]

I am a huge fan of how free to play Starborne is as well, especially now that their are new techniques to get free stuff that don't require me to do missions or swipe credit card I totally feel empowered to play free to play.
👏 thank you SC for this wonderful opportunity to not support you with such a advanced set up of free to play options to play this wonderful game.

[fading glen]

Pay to win in Starborne is the only reason me and all of my friends left it. I think the game is great in a lot of ways, and that is why I am here now, I understand devs/publishers need to make a living, but I think pay to win moment is hurting the player base much more than if they would make like paying to join a session/server or maybe a sub, as long as its same for everyone, or that already suggested model of paying for factions, I don't mind paying for a game, but do mind shifting the rules this much.
I would love for this game to prosper, hope they make it right.

[cinder shadow]

My idea about monetization has always been this: you can only buy starter-pack levels of p2w. It's an affordable price to play a game you value. That almost turns the game into 2 tiers of players. free-to-try and pay-to-compete.

[red vector]

That was their expected monetization model. But it never got to a point where that amount of revenue is sufficient to keep the game going