pvp

[raw summit]

That's really fun about it

Funniest is rets

That just get eaten

And Horde and cry and cant do shit

[sand shadow]

yeah, when did they even add that shit? Raging blow death sentence during RA?

was that always there???

[raw summit]

Since 9.0

At least

[sand shadow]

but RA was different before SL right

I don't remember it being like this in BFA, and thats when I last spam played Fury

[wet scarab]

I thought rets would be harder but they seem to die really fast as fury too and they just dont know when to stun or do anything lol

I'm always surprised at the number of rets that panic and forget to bubble when you burst on them

[sand shadow]

all imma say btw is that, on Warr #1 I have 4% less haste than on warr #2

and as Fury, that shit can be felt

haste is fucking busted

[vapid ruin]

do you guys use sudden death or fresh meat as necro?

[raw summit]

Would you bother shattering a bubble

Or go other guy

You cant get many uses out of fresh meat

[sand shadow]

dude, you can't NOT shatter mate

gotta do it

one of those things

has to be done

it feels incredible

@vapid ruin SD for sure

every game

every cop

[raw summit]

I forgot if u can shatter bop

[wet scarab]

I usually shatter or wait for purge just because I feel rets panic a lot and end up trying to heal themselves kinda like if you go feral hard

[sand shadow]

You should not be pressing BT almost at all anyway

@vapid ruin

[raw summit]

Ye the rets i faced spent all their holy Power on wogs and did 0 counter pressure

Wog into ms is

[vapid ruin]

cause like with fresh meat you could get a big first go,get enraged,get close to rampage while still enraged,pop banner,rampage and ra which should give you enough for a 2nd instant rampage

and then just continue pumping

[raw summit]

Not like building to 80 is hard

Since ra is 50

[sand shadow]

sure, if all you care about is the initial go, that makes sense

[raw summit]

It might be aight into uh

Because many targets

[sand shadow]

you might win 1 game in about 200 that way 😄

it would be terrible into anything dude

[vapid ruin]

ye sd is probably better every time

[sand shadow]

you do not build/maintain enrage w/ BT

you build and maintain it with the far superior, chaddest of them all, Raging Blow

the only argument to be had pressing BT more often than what I do/preach is if you're really struggling to live and believe the healing would make a difference

over superior pressure

[wet scarab]

yeah fresh meat is a pve talent

[vapid ruin]

1 more thing,with ra do you guys still take battle trance?

[sand shadow]

but if, at any point, hitting BT for the heal comes at the expense of maintaining Enrage, you've already messed up

@vapid ruin sure

[vapid ruin]

aight

[sand shadow]

I mean, Battle Trance is the first talent for me to go

I play it into stuff where I can get away with it

hopefully, they fix the CRushing Blow interaction

[wet scarab]

yeah swap that for disarm or bloodrage for warriors and hunters but really nothing else

hunters are another class that just have no idea what to do against fury

they thing enrage procs mean you are about to kill them lol

[vapid ruin]

scary red buff

[raw summit]

Gotta love the ret pressing his Mini parry into normal pressure no cds

[sand shadow]

Game #1, 56% overhealing, Game #2 64.6%, Game #3 33.8%, Game #4 33.3%, Game #5 17.5%

those are my Battle Trance heals

from the last 5 games

obviously, it's still good, and it does generate Rage as well

but I can't think of a situation for now where i'd replace Enduring instead

look at that beautiful uptime

w/o tier set even

[wet scarab]

man it's a real shame there are almost no viable siegebreaker build

wonder if it might make sense into some comps

[sand shadow]

nah

I don't think so, but thats my gut feeling

[raw summit]

You can cleave the sb

But even then its iffy

[wet scarab]

it's a shame, warbreaker is such an easy pick for arms and the equivalent weaker debuff for fury just isn't viable AND is last row

[raw summit]

Favours kyrian

Imo

[sand shadow]

it honestly felt like pressing WW as Fury in PvP in this patch

is trolling

I'd imagine that'd be even more true w/ a 3rd RB charge

and especially if you play Condemn

between Rampage resetting RB, and RB resetting itself, and RB having super low CD anyway because of boatload of haste

you have RB all the time

and are almost literally rotationally blocked

[wet scarab]

yeah I have 2pc and I'm just never out of RBs

[raw summit]

Same i think im over pressing ww

Pve brain there

[vapid ruin]

i dream of getting that 2pc

[raw summit]

Since i do wanna cleave

[sand shadow]

yeah but you should strive to be @wet scarab is my point

[wet scarab]

lmao

[sand shadow]

Or well, keep them as low as possible

[wet scarab]

it's funny because

there's no time most of the time to press anything else

RB and ramp boom boom

shit dies

[wet scarab]

incorporating condemn into this fried my brain

[sand shadow]

these 2 instances of Crushing BLow, that's just Details splitting MH and OH right?

[wet scarab]

yeah

[vapid ruin]

y

[sand shadow]

that shit wild dude

w/ 4pc

RB would absolutely demolish

if you get lucky crits

[wet scarab]

those RA games always feel like you're finally taking revenge on all those hunter

[wet scarab]

hunters*

[sand shadow]

look at this, it did 13.5k here, max I got was nearly 15K iirc

thats just the main hand strike

the OH max crit is 6.65K

w/o the extra 10% from 2pc

o_O

[wet scarab]

there have been games in 2s as arms where I have felt like I could do literally nothing if they were halfway decent, and as fury I just get to pump them regardless

[sand shadow]

and you have 3 of them 😮

[vapid ruin]

these cb are paired with banner?

[sand shadow]

probably

[wet scarab]

ideally yeah

[sand shadow]

I am Necro, so it's likely

[main silo]

I "main" arms but i see some do necro and some do kyrian as fury? I mainly do 2's got any tip? What is the big difference

[wet scarab]

you can 100% land a kill on a kiting class in a banner/RA window

[sand shadow]

in 2s, I'd defo consider Necro

too much stuff currently on the ladder that can cheese every spear

Kyrian would likely be stronger if it wasn't for that small detail

[raw summit]

Kyr fury feels even burstier than kyr Arms

[wet scarab]

yeah you gotta wait on spear until your target has traded a cd, and then when you get up to them it's like OH GREATER FADE IS UP AGAIN BAI

[raw summit]

But very volatile

[sand shadow]

but mb you can do so much damage to force these CDs beforehand

[main silo]

hmm I see

[sand shadow]

and still have pretty decent SPear uptime/success rate

but Fury when I tried it in 2s (I was drunk, headache, forgot to switch Arms to Fury Conduits and hadn't optimized for Haste) felt worse than 3s

[wet scarab]

early spear is just inting but mid and late game spear paired with bomb when they don't have a get out of jail cooldown is really intense pressure on either spec

[sand shadow]

because so much of the game is spent just denying you

I was wildly unlucky tho, met 4 outlaw/hpriests in a row

[wet scarab]

lmao that is tilting

[sand shadow]

that shit counters the fuck out of Fury

[raw summit]

So far ive been playing proc Trinket but would probably go badge once i get enough haste

[sand shadow]

between fly, evasion, disarm, stuns, gouge, blinds, fade, etc

[raw summit]

Outlaw

[sand shadow]

you barely have any pressure

@raw summit badge is bait imo, I wouldn't switch

[wet scarab]

thing about outlaw is you also can't really hate the players because they are choosing to play the intelligent spec

it's like how you can't really be upset about losing to an arcane mage

[sand shadow]

excuse yourself?

Sub is the intelligent spec

Assa is for apes

Outlaw is in the middle

and I say this despite my burning derision of sub

[wet scarab]

yeah but's like the first 2 are ez mode and are the cancer comp for 10 years

[raw summit]

So as fury no youd go bmaster/aegis?

[sand shadow]

I get what you;'r esaying

its like on my alt hunter

I play BM because I want to ape

I tried survival

that shit is about x50 times harder

I honestly thought that Survival might be among the most complex specs in the game

for arena

no troll

[warped warren]

lmao

[raw summit]

What else up there

[wet scarab]

like I appreciate every class that gimps itself out of passion for their build even if the meta is another easier spec. like fury warriors last season, surv hunters in pve, etc. every time you murder a NF demon hunter mercilessly that's one more switching to necro

[sand shadow]

I am telling you, try playing Survival and see if you think it's as easy as it looks when we get smashed by it

[wet scarab]

also disc priests currently

[raw summit]

I only saw trille play some surv and he was eating everything up

Feral too

So much you can do

[sand shadow]

exactly

every global matters

and most of the time, these globals are not pre-decided

minute changes in the state of play can change priority

since they have so so so many buttons

[raw summit]

There's 2 types of ferals

Trille feral

Convoke cheesers

[sand shadow]

yeah like that Snupy guy

god I hate playing vs that boy

always convoke, always the 3min immunity trinket

always playing something wild like firemage/feral 2s

that I have absolutely no clue how to approach 😄

https://www.twitch.tv/snupy this guy, he's really good

[raw summit]

Idk i kinda wanna try feral

And dig into it

But at the same time im not even half done with warriors nuances

[sand shadow]

I wonder how ferals will feel later on in the season

so far it does appear that they are in our tightly packed Arms camp

where their shit is not bad or terrible, but not Assa/Warlock level of player power from tier sets/leggos

I do know that in comparison with our necro cov leggo, theirs is literal trash

[raw summit]

Necro feral Lego is aight apparently

[sand shadow]

it is?

[raw summit]

Since it splits that hot/dot thing

[sand shadow]

yeah that one

[raw summit]

Trille was running it s2

As main Lego

[sand shadow]

idk, I saw r1 ferals on twitter complaining a lot

linking Details where their adaptive was 3% of their damage

[raw summit]

Mhm true

Im no expert cat

Just parroting Info i found elsewhere

[sand shadow]

yeah me neither, just parroting what I heard/saw

hey

jinx

[raw summit]

🤝

[sand shadow]

the time to strike draws closer and closer

plz no steal chat

[raw summit]

Dont tell us where

And u get

For sure

[sand shadow]

idk, it was 10k before I went to bed

someone else is sniping it

[raw summit]

Probably shortly before it expires

Bid war

[sand shadow]

fuuuck

I don't ahve much gold on this char

like 250k

and the wow tokens are yet to sell

[raw summit]

Server dead enough?

[sand shadow]

I fucked myself with it, it's Medium I think

there were gloves I think on some dead German RP realm

should've gone there

but the info was many hours old, and the last seen was "Long"

[raw summit]

Donkey eu

[sand shadow]

so I didn't want to risk it, xfer took almost 1.5hrs

[raw summit]

I can check ravencrest/blackrock/draenor if u want

But no shot you get anything on ravencrest

Ever

[sand shadow]

its fine i bought TSM premium

it shows everywhere

[raw summit]

That's dope

[sand shadow]

the big ones are updated very often

[raw summit]

Ravencrest boxes go for like 700k

[sand shadow]

what are those boxes

[raw summit]

Black market Container

[sand shadow]

random shit in them?

[raw summit]

Ye

[sand shadow]

yeah I've heard of them

[raw summit]

Goldsink but can give u swift zulian

[sand shadow]

like 1 of the many items that can pop on BMAH can be in one of them I assume?

[raw summit]

Yea

It can be a MoP purple or pattern

Or a hand full of weps and mounts

[sand shadow]

do we even know how many possible options there are? someone must have counted

[raw summit]

Tabards too

[sand shadow]

is it like dozens

[raw summit]

There's a guy who opened like 190

[sand shadow]

hundreds? thousands?

[raw summit]

And got a lotta duplicates

And patterns

But some tcg mount

Id maybe buy one for the fun of it but not reliably pump money into it

[nimble jasper]

everything from bmah is possible psure

some guy got a plagued proto

[raw summit]

Still Madge whenever i got a new mount back in my first guild ever i was like "guys look i got this cool thing" and this mf just always linked Black proto and was like get good

I saw tusks drop from box

[sand shadow]

оh noes

[raw summit]

P sure they are out though

[sand shadow]

2 palas talking about it next to the BMAH

that's an L pretty sure

wait

they're different realms

from the one I'm looking at

they can't bid with me right?

it's a different BMAH selection for each realm?

[main silo]

I got rogue & warr @ duelist.. Got any tip for a 3. class? That is easy , dont wanna high skill cap like mage /lock and dont want it easy as BM hunter ^_^

[undone pumice]

dh

[raw summit]

Or learn something hard

Like surv feral mage idk

[sand shadow]

DH is easier than BM imo

I play both as alts

[warped warren]

how is lock high skillcap

[raw summit]

Idk

Demo hard

Press bolt

Win

[sand shadow]

it's certainly more complex than DH/BM

[raw summit]

Low baf

Bar

[main silo]

hmm

[sand shadow]

@main silo How does DH sound? Since you're a melee player already, and trust me, if you're used to it, it's hard to play ranged DPS on a whim

or WW actually

it's more complex than DH/BM, but not exactly rocket science

[main silo]

WW or survival maybe.. Should stick to melee i guess

[sand shadow]

survival is super complex

just sayin

people laugh at me

but it's true

[main silo]

so ive heard

okok tyty

[raw summit]

Surv also not melee

It's this weird mix

[sand shadow]

right

thats actually very true

survival doesn't melee in 2s vs other melees

or even most casters tbh

unless going on healers

[nimble jasper]

ww playstyle is fairly similar to rogue

tho current iteration of dance proc simulator is degen

[plain wing]

@sand shadow BMAH is cross servers for connected realms

if someone is on a diff realm, but part of your server cluster ,they can bid.

[sand shadow]

oh, I am so fucked

[nimble jasper]

yeah bmah is why alot of bigger pvpers

are on boonie ass realms

[sand shadow]

yeah been told as much 😄

oh, I am good gusie

theirs are not connected to mine

according to wowpeadia at least

we still on bois

[nimble jasper]

i always check how many mythic guilds are on a realm

[sand shadow]

tips welcome, yes yes

tho I guess if you're fighting degens like me

can't really size up anything

I decided I wanted it and xfer'd on a whim last night

[raw summit]

The andies that sell those bazillion Gold boost get all the tmog

[nimble jasper]

NA its worse imo

cuz no one on NA plays 2s serious

so its just sweatlord bracket

after a certain rating

[burnt heart]

Anyone else only ever play teams that are 200-300 rating higher regardless what rating you at 😑

[nimble jasper]

i love queueing into yoske playing surv rdruid

[raw summit]

Seems like only bicmex cares for 2s rating

[nimble jasper]

real hunter main not some 1800 fotm shitter

zzzzz

[burnt heart]

When I’m 2k it’s 2400 teams, 1800 on alts and it’s 2k+

Dog water ass mmr system

[sand shadow]

thats odd

I don't get that

[nimble jasper]

i queued into curney and yoske

in the span of 20mins

rofl

[burnt heart]

I don’t ever play teams that are my rating it’s obnoxious as fuck

Even on fresh chars after 5 games I’ll be like 600 rating playing 1600-1700 teams

[sand shadow]

maybe they're playing placements? idk

I do a lot of 2s and never seen that happen

[burnt heart]

Like Bruh I’m in fresh honor gear these dudes have elite from last season

[sand shadow]

even in 4m queues I get appropriate MMR people

[burnt heart]

Cringe as fuck

[nimble jasper]

also above 2.2 on NA in 2s I swear its either some boosted dh/hunter player

or some multi r1/tourney players

xd

[sand shadow]

wait, CR and MMR are two different things @burnt heart

[burnt heart]

I know

[sand shadow]

you can be 600CR and have 2500MMR

[burnt heart]

But why the fuck is it such a high disrepancy

[sand shadow]

I really don't know, I've never seen that

[burnt heart]

I’m not a glad player

I make 2100 on a good day

[sand shadow]

yeah that's unfair for sure

[nimble jasper]

i was helping my friends alt hpal get 1.8 and we won 90% of our games

[sand shadow]

doesn't matter your experience, a delta of over 200MMR shouldn't happen almost ever

[burnt heart]

And even then it’s a struggle Bc I never play people my rating

[vital pagoda]

1700cr 2.2k MMR and i face rm 24/7

[nimble jasper]

then i want to get it 1600 rq for a box

but i get declined by chuds who are 1500 and lf sim cr

xd

also idk I dont mind most rms

alot are really bad

and fuck up their goes so hard

[burnt heart]

Guess I just have to play 1000 games a season to get 2100 like these trash cans that have negative wr at 2400

[vital pagoda]

Haven't met same rm i see

[wary harbor]

the rms which are though tilt 10x more

[vital pagoda]

I love get double naded

[sand shadow]

@burnt heart that's actually logically fallacious

your WR is supposed to drop at higher MMR

[nimble jasper]

good rms are rare in 2s imo

[sand shadow]

you farm WR at low MMR

[nimble jasper]

the only good ones maybe q a few games

before their priest gets on for 3s

[burnt heart]

How can u climb to 2400 and be down 25-30 games

Doesn’t make any sense

[sand shadow]

It does make sense, actually

if you understand how the system works

[burnt heart]

Obv at low mmr ur gonna smack people around since you’re better

But eventually ur gonna even out right

[sand shadow]

if you win exactly 50%

your rating will tend to continue climbing

not by much, but it will

[burnt heart]

But how can u go down 30 games after being up enough to make it that high

[sand shadow]

what do you mean how dude

I am a warrior

I lost 7 games in a row last time

[raw summit]

I ended last season perfect 50/50 at 1807

[nimble jasper]

some days esp in 2s

[raw summit]

So 50/50 is enough

[nimble jasper]

garbo matchups

[sand shadow]

Literally every comp I meet in 2s is stronger than mine, not even flexing

[burnt heart]

I’m usually up like 10-15 wins overall

[sand shadow]

Every hunter comp has a big advantage

[raw summit]

Oh today there's a lotta hunters let's not queue

[burnt heart]

But yes warrior in 2s kinda rough rn

[sand shadow]

every DH comp has an advantage

every feral has an advantage

etc etc etc

nothing is free win in 2s as warrior right now

[nimble jasper]

surv healer should never lose

[burnt heart]

Kinda sick of holy priest and dh tbh

[sand shadow]

not to mention we're two degens playing with 0 tier pieces

[nimble jasper]

unless they throw

rofl

[burnt heart]

I have 4p on war

[sand shadow]

between 50 to 60% of the time on this mMR

[burnt heart]

But you lose so much verse

[sand shadow]

people have at least 2pc

[nimble jasper]

also mfw whaazz be like

“warrior healer into rogue healer is like bullying a kid in 2s”

[sand shadow]

Whaazz has some pretty good takes

Him talking about rogue and rogue mage and RMP overall

is some crackpot stuff though

[nimble jasper]

“oh look i stunned team haha we win i guess”

[burnt heart]

Rogue mage is fun to go against

[nimble jasper]

when you’re prob the best rmp by a decent margin tho

[burnt heart]

I been gearing my hunter up tho that shit is degen as fuck

Especially in 2s…

[raw summit]

Whaazz and Zen struggling into BM healer at 1800 as fury holy was so sadge to see

Or was it 2100 idk

[sand shadow]

I think Whaazz Fury these last few days ago is probably the first time he got really carried in this game

[raw summit]

Zen same damage

[sand shadow]

He's a deeply biased Rogue player too

[full quiver]

what cov was he playing

[raw summit]

Necro

[sand shadow]

just rewind the VoD and watch how often he talks about stupid Fury dmg

[full quiver]

i'm trying venthyr fury today

[raw summit]

He has gavel iirc

[sand shadow]

when Zen, as @raw summit said, has same damage as him

[full quiver]

hopeing it feels good in 2s

[sand shadow]

because Baboon is absolutely broken

I got hit for 19K by an Ascended Blast

[full quiver]

lol

[sand shadow]

the average baboon is ~125K dmg from what I've seen

and it has around 1m40s cd

w/ the leggo

[burnt heart]

Ascended boon is busted

[sand shadow]

and tha 125K dmg is delivered within 10 seconds

not spread out over a minute, for example

[burnt heart]

Don’t forget they can fly into the sky if they get low 😂

And they can res after you kill them which is cool too

[sand shadow]

it's just a combination of Zen being an insanely good Hpriest w/ a fuckton of experience, especially in 2s

playing the most busted healer we've seen in ages

that is nigh immune to control, cannot die, creates incredible pressure

has incredible CC

and is plenty hard to oom

[burnt heart]

Don’t forget they don’t actually need to cast a heal

[sand shadow]

this creates an environment where whaazz can just press W and smash keyboard

[burnt heart]

Just a buncha instant cast 30k heals nbd

[sand shadow]

30k? The other day an Hpriest did 45k through sharpen

during angel sure, but that thing is 1min cd

sure, it was a crit, but there was damp as well

[burnt heart]

Almost as bad as 70k NS heals from druid

[sand shadow]

nah, can't compare that to NS at all

[raw summit]

Stronger

[sand shadow]

NS is far far worse

NS is purgable. NS doesn't give death immunity, NS doesn't give 80% healing increase for 14sec (both from the healer AND the player)

you don't need HoTs etc

[nimble jasper]

is mehh or zen a better hpriest

🤔

[sand shadow]

mehh for sure

Zen is close tho

Mehh is inhuman

[nimble jasper]

thought he was a 2s andy but he got r1 as thug apparently?

last seas

[sand shadow]

think of Reckful back in the day compared to other rogues

thats Mehh rn on hpriest

compared to everyone else

[nimble jasper]

yeah

[raw summit]

Then whyd they lose awc

[sand shadow]

he is mostly a 2s andy yes, thats how he started out

[nimble jasper]

i remember people talking about disc going oom so fast in bfa

and theres mehh

doing micro shit

never ooming

[sand shadow]

but he does have r1

just watch play the game in 2s, where it's easier to follow

notice how often (he'll even say it on stream)

he is at least 2 steps ahead

he knows exactly how they want t osetup on him, what they have, what he can do to prevent if he wants to

etc

always ahead several moves

[nimble jasper]

yeah kinda reminds me of jelly on hunter

[sand shadow]

it does help that hpriest is busted ofc

and actually has the tools

[nimble jasper]

in the always reading what other guy is gonna do

[raw summit]

So like bicmex

[sand shadow]

because it's not enough to be several moves ahead

if your spec just doesn't have the tools

[raw summit]

These global ahead andies too op

[nimble jasper]

hunter and priest i feel

you can really see it

being ahead

[sand shadow]

its no wonder

those are two of the biggest toolkit specs in the game atm

[raw summit]

Feral somewhat

[sand shadow]

yeah I guess feral is in a similar boat

[raw summit]

Sp has Buttons but prob less

[nimble jasper]

spriest has a really high skillcap

[sand shadow]

well, there are buttons, and then there are also BUTTONS

[nimble jasper]

in terms of the shit yoy can do

with it

[burnt heart]

Sp has buttons but you can also just train

[sand shadow]

not all created equal

[burnt heart]

And they can’t play with holy priest cause cc dr

Holy priest busted atm

[nimble jasper]

in b4 they just play

[raw summit]

Sp you have to be good with ur defensive shit or u die to train

[nimble jasper]

rpp in tourney

double faerie cdr sin rogue

[sand shadow]

even w/o faeries, Assa is broken atm

[nimble jasper]

yeah for sure

[sand shadow]

the CD is way too low for how explosive the cooldown is

[burnt heart]

Downside of Prest is if u play necro and they kick fleshcraft u are shadow locked 😑

[sand shadow]

specifically considering it always happens during CC

so you have no counterplay most of the time

[nimble jasper]

pika just blows my mind since his brain seems to not work on anything that isnt just

[burnt heart]

Yeah kidney 20 sec cd

[nimble jasper]

playing pvp

[burnt heart]

Good nerf on dstance tho

Much needed

[sand shadow]

depends

[nimble jasper]

eu hpriests play kyrian more it seems

[sand shadow]

Dstance shouldn't even exist

[nimble jasper]

idk why the na ones still play venthyr

[sand shadow]

but now that it does exist, and we know the current meta, Dstance nerf is vile

I've always been for Dstance removal and compensation

[nimble jasper]

s1 design was so vile

[sand shadow]

current iteration of IP is closer to how I feel class defenses should work

[nimble jasper]

i swear s1 venthyr war was almost as bad

as necro dh

[sand shadow]

requiring active engagement

[nimble jasper]

in terms of autopilot dam

[sand shadow]

not just press & forget

[sharp meteor]

Stances require active engagement.

Afking in dstance is generally not the play.

[nimble jasper]

stance management is good

[sand shadow]

[nimble jasper]

but yeah perma d stance

[sharp meteor]

As you'll fall behind on overall pressure.

[nimble jasper]

clown thing

[sharp meteor]

Pressing IP off CD is much easier.

[sand shadow]

the current mechanics of "stance dancing" are a sham

[nimble jasper]

psure heard mud say multiple times

why is he doubling other wars damage

in the mirror

[sharp meteor]

Especially on Arms where you don't have anything else to spend it on.

[undone pumice]

old donkey do yoy want stances back

[sand shadow]

yes

[undone pumice]

big

[sand shadow]

with penalties

[sharp meteor]

Yeah, my partners queue with another Warr that still sits dstance a ton.

[sand shadow]

so there are good times to dance, and bad times to dance

[undone pumice]

finally someone who knows whats good

[nimble jasper]

so many warriors that sit perma d

[sharp meteor]

I also just noticed that my partners queued 90 games last night.

[nimble jasper]

and its just

[sharp meteor]

That's an unreasonably high amount, no?

[undone pumice]

no?

[clear ibex]

Is there a pvp guide for fury?

[undone pumice]

its up to date

[nimble jasper]

I thought his suggestion was good, the nerf rage gen

in d stance

tbh

[undone pumice]

nerf rage gen in dstance

[raw summit]

Stance should been 20/20

[burnt heart]

It was 10/20

Then it was 20/20

[sand shadow]

D stance is an unfun mechanic, and very low skill cap one at that

[sharp meteor]

They've shuffled it around a few times.

[burnt heart]

Now it is 20/10

[sharp meteor]

Relative to bis macro?

[nimble jasper]

10/20 was so dumb

legit a loss to be in battle

[undone pumice]

-50% dmg taken when using dbts in dstance but -50% dmg dealt always, passively -25% dmg taken

[nimble jasper]

overall

[burnt heart]

It was busted

[undone pumice]

[burnt heart]

But like now it’s not even worth going dstance

[sand shadow]

just give us back sth like OG Second Wind

[sharp meteor]

Sometimes you just have to.

[sand shadow]

and the old rage mechanics

[burnt heart]

U just go fury and have 10% while enrage

[sharp meteor]

OG SW does nothing in this meta, you just die.

[burnt heart]

And don’t lose anything

[sand shadow]

and Heroic Strike

[sharp meteor]

I've tapped warrs in a global from 70% with my shaman or ret

[undone pumice]

heroic strike

[sharp meteor]

through current dstance

[jaunty furnace]

pop dbst and in d stance at the same time and still get one shot to RMP

[burnt heart]

Ret is a joke

[jaunty furnace]

[sharp meteor]

rmp needs like parry aegis or something for bust

[sand shadow]

Heroic Strike took actual brain to use properly, at least in the expansions I played

[burnt heart]

15 yard range spender that does 25k crits and pops divine storm

[sand shadow]

I've heard it was super busted in MoP/WoD tho

[clear ibex]

Sorry, meant a video

[sharp meteor]

Mop had taste for blood. Wod was literally just swing timer + mortal strike.

[clear ibex]

And the pins are for arms

[undone pumice]

revo gettinf 1 shot through pre dbts and dstance and IP and external healer help is my spirit animal

[sharp meteor]

Wod specs felt so gross man

[sand shadow]

@undone pumice the Cdew Sin RMP clip?

[undone pumice]

click on fury here

it is up date

idk which one but its revo getting 1 shot by rmp through pre dbts and healer help

[sand shadow]

on blades edge yea

[undone pumice]

yea

[sand shadow]

he should die there, 100%

[undone pumice]

i know

[sand shadow]

that's not the point tho

or rather the problem

the problem is how it is that RMP always magically arrives at this situation

[undone pumice]

but its cringe that theyre able to get to that pkint so easily

[sand shadow]

where the enemy team has almost nothing

and they have every single fucking CD in the game

That was Vendetta, Combust, PI, Mindgames iirc

[burnt heart]

Bc rmp cds are all 1min and less

[sand shadow]

Precisely.

[undone pumice]

has rmp ever not been meta

i want 2 know

[sand shadow]

no

it can't not be meta tbh

[sharp meteor]

It's always good, and that's fine, but it's too tanky and bursty right now.

[burnt heart]

Fire mage is too tanky

[sharp meteor]

You make a mistake you die, they make 5 mistakes they're still in the gaame.

[sand shadow]

it comes down to fundamental class design and pvp realities

[sharp meteor]

RMP shouldn't be able to fucking dampen.

[sand shadow]

yep

[near delta]

I queued into curney and mag last night at like 2K. Was really close but got brutalized lol

[sharp meteor]

Losing to rmp on mana is batshit insane as they manage to fuck up their goes for almost ten minutes.

[sand shadow]

if they want to keep this burst/control, then SOMETHING else has to suffer

[burnt heart]

Why do mages need healing from barriers and block

And from blink shielding

[sharp meteor]

Imagine being rmp and losing to ret/warr or turbo because you keep throwing your shit into pres.

[nimble jasper]

I swear sub hpriest rn in 2s

[sand shadow]

They have insane CDs, control and burst, then make them glass cannons that just die after their defensives are spent

[nimble jasper]

is so strong

[jaunty furnace]

Imaging designing a cloth class and having it be more tanky than plate

[sand shadow]

that'd be fair

[near delta]

We ran into kalvish on his ww too but that was easy

[nimble jasper]

into most of the good comps in 2s atm

[undone pumice]

why do mages get iceblock, alter time, caut, shimmer

how can u die on that class

[sharp meteor]

ray, seed, duel

[sand shadow]

I'll tell you why

[nimble jasper]

i ran into curney on rdruid

but

[sharp meteor]

chastise being a mile range

[burnt heart]

They also have

Triple barrier

[nimble jasper]

he got statchecked

[sharp meteor]

serenity being literally lay on hands

[burnt heart]

On like 30 sec cd

[nimble jasper]

by 4p sepsis

lmfao

[sharp meteor]

nobody plays that

[burnt heart]

That helps them for 10% or whatever of damage taken

[sand shadow]

@burnt heart 23

[nimble jasper]

also his dh was pretty bad but yeah

[undone pumice]

u also have a rogue protecting u at all times

[sharp meteor]

its disc command and/or blazing barrier

[burnt heart]

Even if they don’t play triune

They have blazing barrier

[sharp meteor]

blazing barrier is so insane actually

[sand shadow]

they dont play it anymore tho

[burnt heart]

And blink shield conduit

[near delta]

I feel like assa and sub really shouldn't have disarm

[burnt heart]

Why do they need 5 different shields

[sand shadow]

thats what tends to happen when you create two melee classes (WW & DH) that have batshit crazy mobility

[nimble jasper]

its usually not the rogue protecting the mage

often other way around

[burnt heart]

That all heal them when I break them

[sand shadow]

and you keep giving more and more mobility to the other melee specs

[nimble jasper]

besides duel disarm peels

[sand shadow]

suddenly, casters just can't do shit vs melee in PvP

so you give them more tankiness

then people learned that tankiness is wtv if you just oom their healer and make them not play

so you just use every single microCC and kicks

to make them NOT cast

and just PvE

so they give them instants

and now you have this shit

an Arms race brought to its conclusion

[nimble jasper]

ww with keefer’s

just perma reconnect

[undone pumice]

so youre saying

[sand shadow]

melees that have virtually unlimited mobility

[nimble jasper]

🤡

[undone pumice]

back to canilla

[sand shadow]

casters that do not cast

[nimble jasper]

demo lock atm

[sand shadow]

and clothies that are far tankier than platers

[nimble jasper]

instant cast demonbolts

[burnt heart]

Too much instant cast spells tbh

[near delta]

And that ridiculous trinket lol

[sand shadow]

yeah ofc too many instant casts

[near delta]

Having to cc air to get it off

[sand shadow]

have you played OG WoW?

like WOTLK?

[burnt heart]

Yes

[sand shadow]

Melee could actually be kited

remember that?

now its nigh impossible

[burnt heart]

Where warlocks had to actually cast spells to do damage

[undone pumice]

only on private servers

[sand shadow]

and I say this as a warrior

[burnt heart]

Now they just instant cast

[sand shadow]

my mobility is bonkers high

[nimble jasper]

sub having double shadowstep as a weird leftover from when sub got redesigned in 7.2

[sand shadow]

precisely, we were given stupid mobility

[undone pumice]

i cant imagine ehat paladins feel like

[sand shadow]

and to compensate, they were given tankiness and instants

paladins dont cast

[burnt heart]

Paladins have ranged spender

[undone pumice]

paladin being an actual wheelchair class

[nimble jasper]

i love hearing nahj complain about getting kited by sin rogue tho

[sand shadow]

oh you mean ret

[near delta]

Paladins are a ranged spec now

[nimble jasper]

cuz poison knife slow

[burnt heart]

And judgement does 9000

Plus 5% hp

[undone pumice]

theyre still better in melee range

[burnt heart]

They don’t even need melee range

Ofc

But they don’t need to be

[nimble jasper]

you just get 60% slowed by crippling

and he soulshapes off

🤡

[undone pumice]

i love when nightfae exists

seed, soulshape are the most cursed tgings ive ever seen

[burnt heart]

Seed is cringe as fu k

I can’t believe they let that exist in PvP

Same with the holy priest leggo

[undone pumice]

seed is just an rmp buff in diguise

[burnt heart]

Like who in their right mind thought that was a good idea

[sand shadow]

Nobody did, thats the issue

[burnt heart]

Remember when they nameplates were in the sky and u needed a WA to target it

Good times

[sand shadow]

They implemented that stuff for PvE

[burnt heart]

Like what the fuck was that

[sand shadow]

the consequences for PvP are almost always ignored

[undone pumice]

pvp is a literal minigame

[burnt heart]

Right but like

[sand shadow]

that was some good shit, thats when I got the WA

[burnt heart]

It’s almost 2 years into the expac

[sand shadow]

you can see the same thing w/ tier sets btw

[burnt heart]

And it’s never even been addressed

[sand shadow]

you can clearly see it was designed with PvE in mind

[undone pumice]

if u say anything in #arms or #fury most ppl just laugh at u for playing the minigame

[burnt heart]

Oh of course

Tier shouldn’t work in PvP

[sand shadow]

thats why some specs are now fucked

[undone pumice]

last season the shards didnt work in pvp

[burnt heart]

Or it shoulda been available w catalyst from day one

[sand shadow]

luckily for us, it does appear BM is kinda fucked

[radiant oasis]

can you mass dispel cyclone?

[burnt heart]

They did

They were 50%

[sand shadow]

Survival, on the other hand, is insane

@radiant oasis yes can MD pretty much anything. cant think of sth MD doesn't work with atm

[undone pumice]

ok but they worked in tge maw right

nowhere else

and pvp isnt in the maw

[burnt heart]

No

The set bonuses were maw only

The individual shards worked everywhere

[undone pumice]

tge indiciudual shards were pretty weak tho

no?

[sand shadow]

I can touch them

[burnt heart]

I mean

It was just free damage

And a free absorb

[undone pumice]

donkey ur alrdy high warlord

stop flex

[burnt heart]

Also the red one for passive hp and heal received

[sand shadow]

high WL would be the cringiest flex I can think of

stupid people grind that

[burnt heart]

Sure it’s 1% damage shard and 3k absorb

[sand shadow]

btw it was Grand Marshal

on a female Night Elf Warrior

[burnt heart]

But it’s free 1%

[undone pumice]

but u can tmog the high warlord pieces

its a flex eitherway

[sand shadow]

?

you can do that

even if you didn't get HWL

[undone pumice]

i cant

[sand shadow]

yes you can?

[undone pumice]

i am unable to do that

i cannot

[sand shadow]

what

you can buy replica shit

and transmog it

[undone pumice]

i have bought tgose

[burnt heart]

Just get 1800 in rbgs

[undone pumice]

i am unabke to transmog those

[burnt heart]

And u can

[undone pumice]

i cannot

[burnt heart]

At 1800 in rbgs

[sand shadow]

they require rating??

[burnt heart]

You can use the replicas

Yes

[sand shadow]

didn't even know that

a set obtainable through 1.8K RBG is hardly a flex

[burnt heart]

Once you hit 1800 rbgs on a char u can use the replica tmog

[sand shadow]

i just really like the set

wish they'd update the graphics

[burnt heart]

Or if you have the title from classic

[undone pumice]

i dont play rbgs

sk i cant tmog them

[burnt heart]

1800 rbg is like 20 wins

[sand shadow]

Imo it's one of the sickest Orc Warrior sets they've done

overall, both GM and HWL stuff was insanely good for plate at least

[undone pumice]

i dont play rbgs

[sand shadow]

mog wise

[fickle forge]

1800 is actually a flex on a lot of casuals

[burnt heart]

Grand marshal alliance

One of the best

[sand shadow]

it is?

[fickle forge]

Yah

[sand shadow]

isn't 1800 fairly trivial?

[burnt heart]

Um

[undone pumice]

its a flex when u were HWL or GM in vanilla

[fickle forge]

Some seasons the median ratin was 1400

[burnt heart]

At like 1500 you have to actually have a brain

[sand shadow]

never done RBGs so I might be wrong obviously

[burnt heart]

Bc after that u get boosters

Every other game

[sand shadow]

yeah but then again, the median arena rating is probably pretty close?

[fickle forge]

Ofc if you're actually into PvP big time, 1800 is something you grab day 1 of a season

[sand shadow]

ok let me put it another way, is 1800 RBG like 1800 Arena?

[undone pumice]

no

[burnt heart]

No

1800 rbg is like 1400 arena this season prob

[undone pumice]

closer to 1400

arena

[sand shadow]

but because its legit more competitive at that level, or because getting 10 apes together is rough?

[burnt heart]

Both

[sand shadow]

I see

[undone pumice]

lfg takes longer is why

[sand shadow]

As you can imagine, having farmed R14 in Vanilla, I absolutely loathe BGs

rated or otherwise

[fickle forge]

Can always do the steering wheel guardian druid 😎 👍

[sand shadow]

I also had to farm the Essence shit from Bgs in BFA

[burnt heart]

Warsong gulch and twin peaks

[sand shadow]

on 3 characters

[burnt heart]

Are the only fun bgs

All the other ones are aids in lfg and to que

Bc people are downies and donot know how to play them

[undone pumice]

arathi basin?

[nimble jasper]

rbgs are a complete cesspit

[burnt heart]

Arathi is bad too

It used to be better when people actually played bgs

[undone pumice]

wtf....

arathi basin my beloved

[burnt heart]

Now it’s borderline unplayable

[sand shadow]

All I know is that, whenever I queue for a daily win

[burnt heart]

Bc people are idiots

[sand shadow]

I end up being flamed in a game once every 3 to 5 games on average

[burnt heart]

I actually had a 5capped last night in AB

[undone pumice]

u should queue as a merc for ur daily win every time

[burnt heart]

No

[sand shadow]

I mean RBGs

[burnt heart]

Alliance is dogshit at bgs

Don’t fall for the bait

[sand shadow]

I've done a lot of Alliance BGs as merc in SL

I kept track of REFlex

its about the same dude

it really is

[burnt heart]

I’m sorry for the trauma you experienced in your times

[undone pumice]

alliance feel better

i feel like i win more

[sand shadow]

you'd think Horde is better, since Horde is the dominant faction in high-end gameplay

but it really isn't

[burnt heart]

I wish I could que just for capture the flag

I don’t want to play any of the other ones anymore

[sand shadow]

pretty sure you can, but no rando BG bonus right?

[burnt heart]

Right

[undone pumice]

yeah

[burnt heart]

So it’s pointless

[sand shadow]

yeah, Blizzard can't do much about that sadly

[burnt heart]

And you have to wait for long ques

[undone pumice]

but ctf is sleeper when u run into the random roof defense sweats

[sand shadow]

they're forced to incentivize random BGs

in order to smooth queue times

[burnt heart]

Those are fun

[sand shadow]

it'd be even worse if they didn't

[burnt heart]

When it’s turtle and 20 min games

Usually it’s just a mid farm fest

But even that is more enjoyable than running circles in AB for 25min calling bases

[sand shadow]

btw, I just now thought of this

[nimble jasper]

arathi basin

[sand shadow]

Have oyu guys queued Solo Shuffle as DPS?

[burnt heart]

Yes

[nimble jasper]

only reason to spam it was comp stomp for abard

[sand shadow]

I posted my near 2hr queues @ near prime time EU

[burnt heart]

You just kill the lowest hp person

[sand shadow]

and people flamed me on reddit

[burnt heart]

That’s disgusting

[nimble jasper]

solo shuffle

when people realize

[sand shadow]

claimed I am faking shit

[burnt heart]

I get 10min ques

[nimble jasper]

no healers want to q it

[sand shadow]

I got 2hrs, no pop (only did 1 BG on the 10th to 25th min)

[burnt heart]

It’s fast honor if you get que pops

[sand shadow]

people flamed me

[burnt heart]

If u get no ques it’s so bad

[sand shadow]

I thought it might have bugged

sat another queue

for like 40mins

[burnt heart]

If u win 6 rounds it’s 1200 honor…

[sand shadow]

I don't get it

[nimble jasper]

dw

[sand shadow]

yeah but you can't get in dude

[nimble jasper]

solo q will save game

according to reddit

[sand shadow]

At least I can't?

[burnt heart]

Right if u don’t get pops it’s awful

Depends on battlegroup maybe too?

[sand shadow]

and its not like I have mmr, hidden or otherwise?

[burnt heart]

Is that even a thing anymore

[sand shadow]

I have not done a single Solo Shuffle

[burnt heart]

No there’s no mmr in solo shuffle

[sand shadow]

nah, no battlegroups

EU is EU, NA is NA

I have tried, in total, to get into SS 5 times now

[nimble jasper]

q is almost instant

[sand shadow]

The shortest queue stay was at least 20 minutes

[nimble jasper]

as healer

iirc

[sand shadow]

before I just alt F4

never gotten into a single one so far

yeah my healer friends mock me

'just q solo shuffle lel"

fuckers

[nimble jasper]

my friend doesnt like it

[burnt heart]

Yah they swimming in honor

[nimble jasper]

says most of the dps that q it

are real bad

xd

[sand shadow]

I don't think anything that has to do with Honor farm is likeable

[burnt heart]

I wish conquest gear was automatically at ur rating when u buy it

[sand shadow]

everyone wishes that

[nimble jasper]

i mean it should be

[sand shadow]

everyone also wishes that honor was account bound

everyone also wishes the cap wasn't 15k

[burnt heart]

Cause ur forced to do bgs

[fickle forge]

Geebs wanted to prove at one point that solo had hidden mmr

[sand shadow]

when it costs like 125K to fully upgrade

[burnt heart]

Weapons cost fucking 1500+ per rank

Like

[undone pumice]

blizzard just severely doesnt care about pvp anymore

[sand shadow]

@fickle forge Yeah I've heard people talking about hidden mmr

[burnt heart]

5500 honor is 55 3s wins

[nimble jasper]

i swear honor costs are the main deterrent rn

[undone pumice]

blizzard just put the vendors in so ppl would actually play pvp

[sand shadow]

but I've never actually played it so how could that be? @fickle forge

[nimble jasper]

game balance being a clownfiesta would be more bearable

[fickle forge]

Can always ask

[sand shadow]

I ought to be in placement territory at the least

[nimble jasper]

if gearing was faster

[sand shadow]

Ask who? I do not know who Geebs is, sorry :/

[burnt heart]

I mean honor gear is cheap

It’s like 2500/piece

[undone pumice]

maybe calculates ur dtarting mmr off of ur 3v3/2v2 ratinf

[burnt heart]

3500 for big pieces to full upgrade

[fickle forge]

@white briar Did you ever find out whether solo shuffle has hidden mmr or nah?

[sand shadow]

@burnt heart The helm is around 3500

oh Geebs from Ludus, yeah

❤️

[nimble jasper]

yeah but conq

yikes

[burnt heart]

Yah big pieces and Weps are like 3500+

But for 259 gear

U can full gear in a day of just doing random bgs

[white briar]

It does not

[fickle forge]

Aight thanks

[white briar]

https://luduslabs.org/articles/hidden-mmr-in-solo-shuffle

[sand shadow]

@white briar good shit on LudusLabs friend, appreciate your work

[nimble jasper]

random bgs are awful

unless you play as something like rogue maybe

then you dome some undergeared schmuck for 30k evis with zerking

[white briar]

Thanks, bud ❤

[undone pumice]

random bgs are only fun for stealth classes or fotm classes

[nimble jasper]

random bg

low mmr rbgs

same shit tbh

[undone pumice]

tru