pvp

[robust hearth]

Wat is downside of venthyr warrior compared to other covenants can somone actually explain?

And don't explain it by using arena comps as a reference

I just want to know y it's considered "not meta" for the warrior alone

[minor vector]

Execute hits harder

Ez

[warped warren]

feels like shit to press

[wheat jay]

Is boring as fuck

[warped warren]

you autolose into ferals

kinda

[wicked magnet]

because their soulbinds are awful, just awful, the best choice requires you to wait a minute and 20 seconds before kicking in

[hard hazel]

what second lego were people thinking of running with Kyrian elysian might

unhinged coming back you think?

[sharp meteor]

probably enduring as a general pick

maybe unhinged, or reflect

[hard hazel]

never ran enduring, does it feel like it procs as the 25% states?

[sharp meteor]

can proc off mortal combo as well

so it feels

quite nice

just scored a kill vs another warr randomly the other day because enduring created little burst window

[hard hazel]

interesting

are you playing kyrian or necro

[sharp meteor]

necro on that warr actually

i queue turbo on kyrian warr and retwarr on necro

spear leggo 95% of the time on kyrian

[hard hazel]

ret war on kyrian not bis?

[sharp meteor]

i like necro more in general and it meshes nicely with ret

although kyrian warr with ret doesn't seem bad at all

necro warr with enh feels like a matchup specific thing where sometimes it's good other times it's pain

[elder wigeon]

sometimes more sometimes less

it is rng after all for EB

sometimes you're given a double proc off mortal combo as a gift from god

5% chance every time you press mortal strike for that to happen

if you have 252 enhanced mc

[vast haven]

i just resubbed. havent played since 9.0. im bis pvp season 1 gear. what should i do to catch up?

[sharp meteor]

oh and mortal combo procs off any instance of ms damaage

a swept mortal strike is 2 chances to proc for instance

[sharp meteor]

just queue rated for conq

[vast haven]

i figured that for grinding conq and honor

[sharp meteor]

227 or w/e is fine just grab a healer

[vast haven]

but what about campaign, story, torghast pve stuff etc?

what should priorities be?

[sharp meteor]

not sure how mandatory that stuff is now aside from renown which u get from everything

need like 57ish for full tree then 75 or something for full conduit upgrades but importaant bit is 57

[stark reef]

Shackles any good on war?

[thick reef]

it works but not lotta warrs use it more pref to use something like badge or insignia

[sharp meteor]

can badge to align with spear or every other warbreaker

or just insignia

both feel nicer than maledict to me

[thick reef]

^^ yeah

maybe unless u have a partner that plays with one then u can coordinate and mal after dispell

[stark reef]

kk, ty

[elder wigeon]

never ever had that happen

[sharp meteor]

it just has icd to prevent the windfury thing

[elder wigeon]

I've played thousands of games, did a bunch of m+ and heroic/mythic raiding, never once had it happen

[sharp meteor]

funny i was just wondering why i got so many more procs when sweeping

after queuing into hunters for a whole day

[fringe moat]

Besides monks and warriors what are some of the classes that consistently counter or negate the war breaker every 45 seconds?

[sharp meteor]

rogue with dismantle is a big one

and/or kidney

DH can fel eruption and/or big incap

although you can reflect the imprison

[elder wigeon]

rdruids, if they're good

[stark reef]

Any good macros vs. shaman totems?

[elder wigeon]

you can't, just click them

[sharp meteor]

esc, interface, names, then minions or minor to show their plate

they killed macro killing totems a LONG time ago

[stark reef]

I came from classic straight to this, over there it was all totems macro'd into hamstring

Ty, just turned on the option

[frosty flower]

Isn’t that normally aff?

[sharp meteor]

probably aff? although demo might work like a bit of a ghetto wps

deathbolt is nice it gives aff kill pressure prior to the ten minute mark

should be fine

don't have to neglect everything and all-in a 1-shot attempt

just setting up for a bolt off CD and maybe forcing something is fine

20-50k over 2-4 seconds or w/e it is will still sting a lot

[safe pecan]

for kyr which leg is bis?

spear or CS proc?

[sharp meteor]

I think that spear is the better overall

although there are some cases where enduring might be good

[elder wigeon]

spear for sure, but certain teams, spear is useless, like sp

[languid swift]

does anyone know how you get the white jaithys skin? its not available to buy from any vendor, unless i havent reached a high enough rank to unlock, i dont see it listed on this guide anywere: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shadowlands-pvp-rewards-transmog-sets

sorry ive just seen where it comes from, i need to learn to read

[sharp meteor]

luv elite weps

hope they do them again next season

[warped warren]

every season

[sharp meteor]

ya

also queued into my first fury warr in a while

[raw summit]

New enchant though..

[sharp meteor]

necro fury with kyrian boomie and hpriest so they just gave him the buffs and he went ham

[raw summit]

Thing is how does fury live a go

It's the main thing im struggling with as that spec

[sharp meteor]

idk but it worked with them until 2650

also the warr stormed 2 point blank bolts

im in shambles

[raw summit]

IP is awful to press and Frenzied Regen kinda shit compared to dbts

[sharp meteor]

it is

[raw summit]

Been told the best play for fury is to respec Arms

Probably straight up true

[sharp meteor]

it is true

last cov i need to push on is nf though

so i have to go full meme

probably going nf fury panda or something

[raw summit]

NF fury Panda with some gimmicky oneshot that works one time

Maybe with idk Bell Trinket from the World quest

For giga mastery

[robust hearth]

Wait. Y panda?

[sharp meteor]

because it's not as troll as vulpera

[thick reef]

both Kyrian and Necro use Badge right

is it worth it to buy/upgrade Insignia

[warped warren]

yes

i use insignia 99% of the time

[thick reef]

hmm, Mud's video and also everyone on the leaderboard uses badge

[full quiver]

eto only plays at like 1200

[warped warren]

yea well, play w.e you want

cant care less

[sharp meteor]

i play both and kind of swap depending on cov matchup comp

basically the win condition of the game

am i killing somebody in goes > badge

am I killing somebody by ooming their healer > insignia

idk what to pick > insignia

im scared > battlemaster

[thick reef]

haha

nicely put

[sharp meteor]

like shackle might have some potential but there's usually so much else to think and worry about that I don't think to fret about setting up a decent shackle go

also lot of warrs i notice recently playing rly mongo i think because they're so used to being ignored

been turning and killing a lot of people recently

it's like they trade parry and intervene into our cds to peel their partner we swap to them after it falls and they just explode

[rugged swan]

so wsup with these shadow priests and lock metas? they just simply use warlock gate after i spear any of them and spear laser won't bring them back? i am sure some time ago it did bring them back after they use gate

[full quiver]

if they use their demon circle port at wrong time it will pull them back

don't spear them next to gate unless it's on CD

[rugged swan]

yeah but problem is that when they see spear is up they run and stand next to gate 😄

so u mean if they use gate right after spear it won't bring em back?

[full quiver]

so pressure them into taking gate

then leap spear

[rugged swan]

ok, will try, thx for help

[full quiver]

idk if you're talking 2s or 3s. but if it's 2s and you're hitting him with warbreaker/avatar, he's probably going to need to take gate lol

if it's 3s and you're on him with your partner, same thing

you can also do opposite. bait their gate with just spear, then do your big go

[rugged swan]

i was talking about 2s y

ok, good ideas will try

[full quiver]

spriest, i'd play enduring if you have it, you can spear them, they'll GF then you do your warbreaker/avatar go

you'll win just by training the spriest whole time

[sharp meteor]

can usually spear to bait fade then just send bolt and warbreaker

rdruid splay actually feels impossible as a lot of melee comps

unless u luck out and they don't press anything in opener

[thick reef]

what does Berserker Rage break? what I know is Fear/Sap/Repetence/Paralysis. anything else?

[old trail]

cant believe it took 3 hours of skirms

but I did it

got this from rank 7 to 8

And then spent all week going from rank 0 to 8

[full quiver]

lol

i just got both from vault at 2.1

[old trail]

Im shooting for stuff from raid/dungeons for vault

pvp is very low priority 😦

Im a raider main

[wooden canyon]

How do you guys deal with bm hunters?

[full quiver]

kill them with big dam

[low gulch]

Is 246 fully upgraded jaithys worth running in my offhand if I have a 259 duelist weapon in main hand? (Fury, obviously)

[full quiver]

would be better using duelist wep as arms

lol

[low gulch]

That’s why I’m asking about fury and not arms kekw

[raw summit]

at that point it might be worth doin some dummy testing

try out both options in a "Go"

then both over like 3 mins or smth

[low gulch]

Ok gonna give it a shot

Obvi arms is better but I’m tryna see if there is any way to make fury go harder than arms in RBGs so I can rip and tear all Doom style

[full quiver]

duelist PVP weapon will outperform jiathys 100%

if you have 2 of them use that

fury in any rbgs over 1800 is just going to get focused and die in the first team fight lol

[elder wigeon]

big true

[sharp meteor]

fury in a large scale setting seems susceptible to focus fire

[full quiver]

if you want that experience just play DH lol

[sharp meteor]

havoc is much better than fury

although in recent history

i have queued into more fury warriors than havoc dhs

[full quiver]

i haven't done rbgs since beginning of the season, i'm not sure if they play necro or nightfae now

i'd imagine it's probably still night fae

can't really rely on demon spawn for one shotting FC lol

[sharp meteor]

can the team join then tell u which map it is

[elder wigeon]

necro dh is disgust

actually S tier now

[wheat jay]

Wouldn't say s tier

Definitely strong

Their dps on details is fake

It counts oneshot to their demon

So 70k dmg from throw Glaive on every proc

[mystic barn]

the only problem with rdruid is cyclone

[wheat jay]

Dk is the most overpowered class and needs to get nerfed

[full quiver]

lol

their dps is not fake

you can look at after arena and see the dam diff

[wheat jay]

Ye I always look

[sharp meteor]

lol no necro dh is excellent

[wheat jay]

Today, 260k above me in details, 360k was dmg to demons he was proccing

[wheat jay]

As I said, its definitely good, but I wouldn't say s tier

[sharp meteor]

a+ or s tier

necro havoc rly good

[wheat jay]

Mhmmm

[sharp meteor]

dh players just

aren't

similar to lock players

[wheat jay]

Some would say that about warriors :)

[sharp meteor]

every bfa glad dh/lock that's rival now and think that their class is bad deserves to be thrown from a helicopter

[wheat jay]

So do people who claim warrior is completely fine tbh

Necro dh is strong but its definitely not s tier

[sharp meteor]

whomst is claiming warr is fine

although most people can't even articulate what's strong about them

[minor vector]

after bfa warrior the ladder had it comin

[wheat jay]

Mhmmm

Not sure if it should be based on past seasons but ok

[frosty flower]

What

[wheat jay]

[elder wigeon]

DH does unhealable damage right now

and is actually really hard to kill

DH is so brain dead every DH does the exact same amount of damage, all the skill is how hard they are to kill

[thick reef]

what is their burst rotation?

[elder wigeon]

pop demon, eyebeam death sweep, spam annihiliation

[thick reef]

what is pop demon?

[wheat jay]

I have yet to be out damaged by a havoc dh :)

[elder wigeon]

lol I've never out damaged a necro dh

not even close

[wheat jay]

Necro dh ability, they proc a demon, if they kill it, throw Glaive oneshots it, they get 20% more dmg and heal 45% of their HP

[sharp meteor]

havoc dh always does more than arms

[elder wigeon]

and I'm out damaging my ret

[wheat jay]

Resune, do you count throw Glaive as their dmg?

[sharp meteor]

🤨

[wheat jay]

Cuz those 70k hits from throw Glaive

Is them killing demon

[elder wigeon]

No, have you ever played 2's? necro dh solos healers all day

[sharp meteor]

havoc does way more dam

arms has utility

[elder wigeon]

I can't kill any healer faster than a necro dh

havoc has utility too

[wheat jay]

I dunno, I rarely play 2s

And in 3s im survival, not arms

[elder wigeon]

necro dh boomie is actually an S tier comp atm

insanely hard to beat

[wheat jay]

And when i dont count throw Glaive, im never outdamaged by dh xd

[elder wigeon]

you're a hunter

[sharp meteor]

hmm

[wheat jay]

True

[wheat jay]

Not a bm tho :)

I dont do bm dmg

[thick reef]

so how do u prepare for a necro DH's burst? watch out for when they "Fodder to the Flame"?

[sharp meteor]

havoc should never

lose to a surv

[wheat jay]

Yes

[sharp meteor]

in overall

[wheat jay]

Ok, are we talking 2s or 3s?

[elder wigeon]

basically disarm or cc when they pop their demon and gain their demon soul empowerment

[wheat jay]

Cuz that's important

[sharp meteor]

3s idc about 2s

[wheat jay]

Ok, in 3s dh is not that super amazing

Especially against warriors

Intervene, execute charge, disarm, stun, duel if you play it

Their defensives are rng based as well

[sharp meteor]

wtf does duel do to necro havoc

[wheat jay]

Reduce dmg they do to your teammates assuming they dont target you, and if they do theyre stupid cuz you're a warrior and you dont rly die easily

[sharp meteor]

they swap off them instantly

[elder wigeon]

intervene doesn't do fuck all vs 90% of dh dmg

[sharp meteor]

havoc has no rampup

[wheat jay]

Good job, you reduced pressure on their kill target

[elder wigeon]

if you haven't noticed DH is all AOE except annihilation, intervene doesn't stop any of that

[wheat jay]

Annihilation is quite a lot of dmg

[thick reef]

the demon lasts 25 sec though, can't keep them CCed for that long. They will still pop the demon when they are out of cc right

[elder wigeon]

cc them when they pop it man

[sharp meteor]

most of my kills recently have been

swapping to the warr

[wheat jay]

Lol

Most of mine have been just killing dh

[fickle forge]

It's not really the demon that matters, it's the demon soul they absorb for 20% dmg increase

[elder wigeon]

yes, that

[sharp meteor]

yeah necro dh is probably the hgihest sustained dps spec aside from aff

[thick reef]

what buff/debuff should i make a WA for

[elder wigeon]

Aff > necro DH > BM > ret > everything else

in terms of dps

[wheat jay]

[thick reef]

oh this one right

thats the buff I can make WA for

[wheat jay]

Ye this

[thick reef]

kk

[wheat jay]

Precisely

[thick reef]

only 20%? doesn't seem that impressive compared to the hunt

[elder wigeon]

they get it for like 26 or 27 seconds with max conduit

[sharp meteor]

bolt/disarm the eye beam

dh is just a hose of dam

hard to rly peel it

stuff so long

[wheat jay]

Will be stronger in 9.2 cuz legendary for it is good

[thick reef]

wait why bolt-disarm the eye beam? why not bolt-disarm the demon soul buff

[wheat jay]

Iirc it applies fire brand and demon soul lasts longer

[sharp meteor]

kick eye beam to disrupt haste if possible

soul too long to worry about controlling

beam is a lot of damage and haste denied if you disrupt it

or disarm the follow-up demonic form

[thick reef]

metamorphsis?

[wheat jay]

They get meta for few seconds after eye beam

[thick reef]

kk

why does it seem like necro is becoming the end-game covenant for everyone..

necro war....necro hunter...necro DH

[wheat jay]

Necro hunter is not meta yet

Doubt it'll be

Bm doesnt benefit much from it

Neither does survival

Its used mostly by mm

[sharp meteor]

venth seems better for all specs of hunter

[wheat jay]

And venthyr has the best legendary for 9.2

[elder wigeon]

venthyr warrior will return

[sharp meteor]

def has potential especially if they directly buff it

cos at last check nobody played it

[stark reef]

Can someone explain how the movement speed gems work? I am having the 13/shadowland gem and the +5% one + minor speed on cloak and my MS is 7%

(Was 8% before I put in the +5% one over a verse one)

[sharp meteor]

5% one doesn't show

or rather it's calculated differently and so doesn't show

speed cloak, SL gems in all sockets, SL speed gem, 5% movement speed

but don't bother with SL speed gem if u aren't full gems

[stark reef]

I am full gems

And have 18k soul-cinders left

[wheat jay]

Man you're mad

[stark reef]

Just leveled 4 covenants to 80 in thorgast

Now I just need to find a healer for 2s

[sharp meteor]

[thick reef]

i am full gems on both pve and pvp sets, full conduits, and still 50k research left

[warm quiver]

What’s the best 3s comp right now ? I’ve been running vanguards but every time we que into a warr a priest we have issues.

[elder wigeon]

RMP

best warrior comp? ret war with an Rdruid

RMP > Jungle > Ret war

[sharp meteor]

retwarr with rdruid and wps feelin cozy

just pve

[wet scarab]

I’m actually trying a really fun 3s comp right now with a demo lock and disc priest

Not ideal but lots of peel options and pressure especially against melee comps

Also a bit easier on caster comps I feel than melee cleave

The demo is a lot tankier than spriest too

Anyway lots of chaos and fun to be had and I can usually go nuts on the healer or one of the dps because they always go for the lock

Monks and rets and feral druids instantly die

[sharp meteor]

seems like budget wps except u lose on mana and are basically just banking on the enemy team not knowing what happens after decimating bolt

but yeah seen so many wonky comps recently

aff/demo/hpal, feral/disc/aff, unholy/aff/hpriest

delete warlock

[wet scarab]

The games are usually over far before mana becomes an issue. The only comp that gave us trouble was necro DH

[sharp meteor]

yeah they spooky

[wet scarab]

We played a rdruid necro dh afflock comp and it was cancer

[sharp meteor]

infinity damage owO

[wet scarab]

Lasted too long and I had to peel to save the healer and the afflock just killed everyone

But the nice thing about demo is you can split targets easily and it’s way too much pressure for the healer

With the disc they can 2v2 the dps as well

[thick reef]

what is frost DK's biggest powerup ability

and unholy's

[sharp meteor]

unh idk how they work rn but frost is limb and pillar

well, empower, pillar and limb, but empower can telegraph the go

frost generally trying to get people gripped for pillar

try to bladestorm the stun/sleet and disarm the pillar

when they grip your teammate onto you

[old trail]

Frost's is easily pillar of frost
Unholy's is dark transform/apoc mainly. Sometimes you'll see unholy blight being played too

But most unholies are taking ebon fever, which means no blight

If you see yourself at 4+ wounds around every minute, chances are the uh dk is going for an apoc

[sharp meteor]

Oh, yeah, the red line to the pet is usually aligning with the unh setup

[old trail]

especially if you see them transform first

[sharp meteor]

er orange line

[old trail]

UB+DT+Apoc are usually lined up in that way

It's very telegraphed

[sharp meteor]

ya there's like so few people who q it that i forget how it works

doesn't seem bad just requires a degree of finesse

[spice hornet]

necro dh healer

its so aids

for 2s

literally just run down healers pressing blur on cd, cage/stun on off target

like lol

[simple rock]

the dhs that q with foxyllama literally do 5-7k dps sustain without cleave

~2600mmr

it's insane

[elder wigeon]

yup

rev and mvq

[lucid walrus]

hunt 1shots are annoying but getting dogged by something as hard to peel as that feels way worse

[elder wigeon]

nah dhs don't play nf anymore

all necrolord now

[lucid walrus]

wondered ab that

[frigid loom]

Ye the sustained damage from necro dh is pretty insane, and the added survivability from being necro benefits them alot as they are squishy as fuck as nightfae and need to use their mobility to run away all the time. So with necro they also get way more uptime

[fickle forge]

Going up against mvq is big sweat time, feel like he can drop you at any given time if you don't mind his positioning constantly

[elder wigeon]

Yeah any dh is sweat time, the damage is unreal

[viscid bluff]

can you intervene the war banner?

[wheat jay]

No

[viscid bluff]

ok

[wheat jay]

Why would you ever want to

[fierce elm]

movement

[warped warren]

so drop banner

move away

intervene back

😂

[wheat jay]

just use intervene for your homies

even against casters

it gives dmg reduction xD

[fickle forge]

Plant banner on ports
Intervene to it when monk/lock TPs

Checkmate

[warped warren]

not like people instakill banners

🧢

[full quiver]

Tek and I played vs warlock, warrior, rdruid

Warlock was using gate leggo that knocks you up when he gates if he touched you

Was absolutely aids lol

[sharp meteor]

ya haven't seen that yet

keep bumping into locks with drain leggo

[full quiver]

we had no clue wtf was going on during the game

i kept checking to see if the arms warrior they had was prot lol

[warped warren]

what

[sharp meteor]

portal knock

er gate knock

[full quiver]

yeah

first cast of gate does not put it on CD

and every time you gate, it knocks up people near you / you pass through mid gate lol

i didn't know about hte leggo so i thought maybe it was a prot warrior

since bear druid has knock up

[wet scarab]

what slot do you use leaper on?

[rough wharf]

yo, only shadowlands speed gem or also bfa one?

[elder wigeon]

you can use both if you'd like

[warped warren]

all of them for sonic speeds

[sharp meteor]

i like sl speed and 5% along with a few vers

idk about the 3%

[rough wharf]

Hmm I’ll skip the bfa gem if it’s not mandatory

@sharp meteor is the 5% one actually 5%? Read that it’s oddly calculated somewhere

[sharp meteor]

yep just doesn't show in the default char sheet

it's like they have multiple movement speed stats that interact fine but only show some of them

[rough wharf]

Ah ok. Im at 9% speed from the shadowlands one atm

[sharp meteor]

although really it's hard to notice

but then again so is 16 of a secondary

[rough wharf]

It’s 4.5k on my server that’s why I’m wondering

[thick reef]

how do I play War/SP

used to ret/war, but no idea what the game plan is for War/SP

[sharp meteor]

even easier

just peel for priest

and do pve damage

[thick reef]

what makes spriest better than any other caster for a warrior?

[sharp meteor]

they just sit there and don't die while pumping damage

and have reliable ranged cc

[thick reef]

also, i guess Kyrian > Necro for War/SP ya?

[sharp meteor]

i think so but they both work

[elder wigeon]

sp has md for cc on your healer, does big dam, has insane pressure with spear + psyfiend goes, very strong stun silence goes with your bolt

and yes kyrian is best because of psyfiend

[sharp meteor]

spear into unholy nova is actually impossible for melee cleaves to deal with

[elder wigeon]

WPS is like a S- tier comp

[sharp meteor]

can't reach psyfiend

[elder wigeon]

it's almost one of the best

[sharp meteor]

yeah the shadow priest in a wps was #1 on na the other day

also yeah the mds on healer are really nice as well

rip off trap poly and whatnot

[elder wigeon]

survival hunter comps are a bit hard actually

for WPS

played against a survival jungle and it was actually hard

feral could never die, did like 800K healing, kept adaptive swarm frenzying

[sharp meteor]

oh i have seen a few ferals playing resto aff

[thick reef]

comparing Ret/War to WPS? i suppose WPS would have an easier time against caster comps, which is hard for Ret/War

[sharp meteor]

and/or that one healing legendary

[elder wigeon]

WPS is okay into wizard cleaves

[sharp meteor]

yeah wizards are kind of suffering

[elder wigeon]

shadow play is suffering for every comp in the game

[sharp meteor]

actually tho

[elder wigeon]

kitty cleave is probably the most "fun" comp into a wizard cleave like shadow play

[full quiver]

lol

i like KFC into caster cleave

[elder wigeon]

KFC fucks caster cleaves especially if it's a MM hunter

[full quiver]

kyrian war + bm hunt is hard to deal with

[sharp meteor]

why is that

oh yeah mm

[full quiver]

we played BM

haven't rode the MM train yet lol

necro MM seems pretty nasty though

[elder wigeon]

hunters passively counter rdruids with tranq shot and if you play with rsham that spam purges on a swap, it's actually kinda nutty

[sharp meteor]

venth seems more reliable

and tranq shot is a reasonably long cd for a single hot

[elder wigeon]

KFC is definitely on the cusp of being nuts

[full quiver]

it's not just a single hot tho

it reduces the all the remaining hot timers

[elder wigeon]

you play the pvp talent

[sharp meteor]

thought the dart talent was still melee range

[full quiver]

yeah

but vs cleaves

it fucks rdruid so hard lol

doesn't help much vs caster cleave, i don't think you'd play it

[lucid walrus]

sp having md for every trap with improved md is nuts

granted there's the issue of mana & cross cc but goddamn

[thick reef]

if i want to make a WA to pop my banner when my ret is bursting, which ret buff/CD should my WA trigger with?

wings?

[lucid walrus]

avenging wrath

so wings, yeah

[thick reef]

kk

isn't there a mini-wing proc though

[lucid walrus]

there is. unsure what it does in that case

[warm quiver]

You should be able to set it to show the length of the cd. And then you’ll be able to tell the difference between big wings and the proc

[sharp meteor]

crits stack reckoning

at 50 they get minu wings on next auto

[plain wing]

So here's the dilemma lads. Im a clothie range main, but this season I really want the 1800 plate set (kick myself for not getting last seasons). What will I have an easier as (from a pretty fresh character) - ret or warrior?

[sharp meteor]

arms

better in 2s

works with less gear

[vestal ibex]

Arms is also simpler imo

Don't have to worry about BoP/Freedom/Sanc/Sac/off-healing

[sharp meteor]

like nobody used cds all the way to like 2200 on necro warr

i just ding somebody in the opener each game

ret they're peeling the seraphim gcd

[vestal ibex]

My dumbass still can't break 1950 though

[lucid walrus]

1800 2s is a joke on war

[vestal ibex]

LFG is a lottery of 'whos boosted'

[sharp meteor]

uh there aren't too many truly boosted players but there are a good chunk of like

2s rdruids for instance

that are like duelist 2s 1700 3s

similar wit hunters

[vestal ibex]

I've got 1800 in 2s and 1890 in 3s

Can't seem to break higher

[full quiver]

probably not an issue with boosted people then lol

[vestal ibex]

It is because I got my rating with someone who no longer plays - since then it's been losses galore

Found climbing to 1890 easy as pie

[warped warren]

arms definitely

[full quiver]

1800 arms in 2s is completely free

[vestal ibex]

Not saying that I'm not also just hardstuck too, just a factor haha

[warped warren]

@plain wing get an understanding of how to press damage and peels correctly and you should have no issue

[full quiver]

i thought you needed 1950 for set now tho

[lucid walrus]

you can reliably reflect every trap against hunter teams in 2s until like ~2.2

[full quiver]

lol

[warped warren]

granted you have a healer who somewhat press buttons

[full quiver]

just play shackle and kyrian and you don't even need to reflect trap

[warped warren]

1.8

[lucid walrus]

they reverted the set breakpoints

[full quiver]

oh did they change it back

lmao

[lucid walrus]

which is a good thing imo

[warped warren]

necro is the far friendlier cov

[vestal ibex]

I've been playing Necro since condemn stopped being the go-to

[full quiver]

if it gets more people playing pvp that's good

necro is still really good

[warped warren]

necro orc sephuz

[full quiver]

eww

[warped warren]

and youre good to go

[full quiver]

enduring or bust bro

or mirror

[warped warren]

relax

[full quiver]

mirror feels so good in 2s

[warped warren]

mirror when youre new to warrior

isnt the best thing to do

[full quiver]

i guess

but vs hunter "is the hunter trap off cd? is he running otwards healer or stunning him?"

pretty easy for any level lol

[lucid walrus]

necro orc sephuz lmao

4sec full kidneys

[full quiver]

lol

[lucid walrus]

2.8sec bolts

[full quiver]

yeah r/m wouldn't be able to go war

lol

[lucid walrus]

pre-fleshcraft nerf u could just sit a lot of RM openers

[warped warren]

they still can if you mess up

[warm quiver]

at what vers % should i start gemming into haste or crit? or just the more vers the better

[sharp meteor]

i really do love enduring

can't wait to be able to play it every game on kyrian

[warped warren]

kinda have to instatrinket anywyas

[full quiver]

i swear unhinged + EM

will be so strong

[sharp meteor]

eh

[warped warren]

get the sl speed gem and gem full vers

[full quiver]

into like shadow play

or cleave

[sharp meteor]

unhinged into splay?

[full quiver]

our ratings are pretty diff though lol

[sharp meteor]

they gate one spear then grip or trinket port the other

[full quiver]

not in 10 min games

[sharp meteor]

shambles

[warped warren]

em + tormented kings

proc reck

🤧

[sharp meteor]

[full quiver]

oh fuck

i forgot about that leggo

LOL

[wheat jay]

lmao

[sharp meteor]

me remembering glory

[warped warren]

[full quiver]

yooo

is that the play

[sharp meteor]

here lies muds montage reel

[full quiver]

the ultimate gamble

[warped warren]

imagine full haste necro with glory and signet

[full quiver]

wtf is reduced efectiveness

for bladestorm?

[warped warren]

proc reck and get infinite rage

[full quiver]

shortened duration?

[sharp meteor]

shorter

[wheat jay]

get slowed

[full quiver]

gotchya

[warped warren]

infinite vanner

[sharp meteor]

i thought

[wheat jay]

lose reck

F

[warped warren]

slowed in banner lmaooooo

[full quiver]

new 2s strat

necro fury warrior, 100% uptime on banner

ez$

[sharp meteor]

i queued into a necro fury the other day it was odd

the priest holy warded my mid air bolts

and the warr point blank stormed 2

[full quiver]

i played vs necro fury, necro WW

[sharp meteor]

still won but mentally i lost

[full quiver]

that was pretty aids

guy did more healing than my hpriest

through shapren and disarm lol

[sharp meteor]

whew

[wheat jay]

oh true

[lucid walrus]

it's stories like these that make me grateful slaughterhouse was nerfed

[warped warren]

scripter duo

[full quiver]

we would've lost for sure

if it wasn't

guy was like 2600 in 3s on fury lol

[sharp meteor]

i am 99% sure i queued into one at the end of bfa

but he was the only one i have seen since wod

[warped warren]

lmao

[sharp meteor]

when 90% of ferals were robots

and 100% of locks were

[full quiver]

how tf can you even script

without insta ban

[sharp meteor]

lmao

thinking blizz cares

i mean eventaully they fixed it but

mop-wod was a bit of a wilderness

rbg and there's just a warlock 50 feet in the air with the cart

https://tenor.com/view/bender-futurama-neat-wow-gif-5744318

[warped warren]

lmao

russian flyhack

[full quiver]

man

classic WoW

there were legit 100s of hunters on every server, that were bots, fly hack spamming DMT

for raw gold

lol

[sharp meteor]

yeah

glad i only got peer pressured into that for a few days

then i bricked my buddies guild and could quit in peace ayyy

[plain wing]

Thanks for the answers guys!

@warped warren any good starting places on where to get good at these mentioned concepts? Or just in general getting into arena / pvp on warrior

[full quiver]

watch people do viewer 2s on war

and play a bunch of games

[sharp meteor]

hm not sure about viewer 2s as those are kind of like smurf matches

[full quiver]

if they're looking to get 1800 in 2s lol

[warped warren]

can start off reading abit in the pinned guides

i guess

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/arms-warrior-pvp-rotations-strategy

also this

[sharp meteor]

yeah the tldr of arms is just do pve damage to the thing least likely to kite you

queue with ideally rdruid or rsham

and should be easy time

[full quiver]

i watched a lot of this guy https://www.twitch.tv/larosttv

[sharp meteor]

so the thing with viewer games is that u end up like the million sub rogues

[full quiver]

nah

[sharp meteor]

who try to mimic pikaboo

[full quiver]

this guy does a lot of war viewer games

so then you can see how to play when your healer has no clue wtf they're doing lol

he calls out what he's going to do/ doing half the time. was pretty easy for me to pick up and go

got 1800 at like 199 ilvl

never touched war in my life since classic back in like 2008 or w/e lol

[warped warren]

cant do this if you have no clue what youre doing lmao

[full quiver]

i had no clue what buttons war pressed

i had played a lot of DH tho

but if he wants 1800 that's literally just playing the game lol

[sharp meteor]

like if he's explaining what he's doing then that's fine idk i don't watch streamers

i just see a lot of people trying to be mud or pika

[full quiver]

i found it helpful

he'll answer questions too

[sharp meteor]

yeah sounds good then

[lucid walrus]

viewer 2s is probably the closest you'll get to a good stream on the topic i guess

considering higher rated shit wouldn't be realistic for climbing in low cr. but yeah you run into the issue of r1s just dunking on people w/o explaining a thing

[sharp meteor]

yeah sending parry and all offensive cds in the opener to just body somebody can't realistically be copied

when you're down on gear and exp

[full quiver]

that's our boy muds viewer 2s

lol

which is also how i got second war up to 2.1 as necro

[lucid walrus]

don't get me wrong, watching dude make a sport out of seeing how high of an execute he can hit in rat leagues is top notch entertainment

it just isn't for learning lmao

[sharp meteor]

yeah my healer nearly fell out of his chair when i whomped some guy for like 44k which swept and killed his partner

[lucid walrus]

lmfao

[sharp meteor]

im like hey watch his and just dropped him from 100% with a warbringer charge into execute

wheeee

[full quiver]

no one expects warbringer dam

i've killed so many people running by running away from them if i'm not close enough to hit, to get warbringer, to get them back into execute range

[sharp meteor]

that like 10-15k hit plus 25-40k execute followed by sharpened ms

momma mia

[plain wing]

Really helpful

Thanks guys

Excited to hop into it. Pretty terrible at pvp 🤞🏽

[full quiver]

just keep playing and don't blame your healer lol

[plain wing]

Getting into pvp is just super hard with crappy gear

Haha true!

[wooden canyon]

pls gimme tips against bm hunter + healer in 2v2

[sharp meteor]

vs non-druids I'll usually just eat the healer

vs druids I'll go hunter bolt the freedom and swap to pet whenever I can't reach the hunter

can also run misshapen to reflect 90% of traps below duelist+ because down there hunters just intim healer into trap, so you reflect in between and will usually stop it

healers USUALLY won't cross-cc you

if they do it's possible to trade trinket quickly if you can still get it

be in dstance during bestial unless you're absolutely tearing into them with your own cds

can also line them as long as it doesn't fk your healer as 90% of their damage is shots form the hunter, not the pet

[wooden canyon]

alright thanks alot sir! will apply this on the next bm game im in

[sharp meteor]

yeah i hate bm/rdruid but if you have your own druid it's fine

rdruids getting deleted when

[plain wing]

Guys recommend hopping into bg’s or straight into arena

210 Ilvl (mostly pve gear)

[lucid walrus]

depends on vers. daily wins are often worthwhile

already have trinkets?

[plain wing]

I have the proc trinket

[lucid walrus]

got medallion?

[sharp meteor]

so best case scenario you have a healer willing to queue with you and you just play SUPER low mmr 2s matches to faarm conq

and get 1k cr out of the way for some upgrades

some crafted gear leggo etc to fill out prior to that is aight, along with korthia

[lucid walrus]

anything's an upgrade for you if you're all pve gear, yeah. trinkets + trinket bonus is imperative no matter how ratty the rating you're playing at is

[sharp meteor]

bgs and honor gear as last resort imo but you can do the epics once for the quest that gives like 250 conq, like kill tremblade

i climbed two chars up like this and 95% of the struggle is having somebody to queue with

[plain wing]

Ok, sounds good. 🙌

@sharp meteor find a healer with low rating too?

[lucid walrus]

oh yeah

[sharp meteor]

Yep.

basically just like a warm body to queue with, I had to play with a hunter at one point lmao

anything to get those super low mmr wins in, just need conquest

[deft island]

hi guys, i got a quick question...so i just reached 1,8cr and was wondering how i will get the nice looking weapons in the fitting colour theme....not that buyable yellow/purple kind of scheme....do i need to unlock it through more rating?!

[sharp meteor]

white weapons are Duelist/2100

[plain wing]

@sharp meteor thanks man

[sharp meteor]

Best of luck. Just don't let those games where you lose due to lack of gear bug you.

Just need games to buy pieces, and that can take a little while.

[deft island]

sheeesh

[full quiver]

lol

u get wep enchant too!

[sharp meteor]

the worst bit is the honor required to upgrade all the weps to duelist

[full quiver]

it's insane

that it costs more than the 15k cap

like wtf is that shit lol

[sharp meteor]

also only DH can use the warglaive so had to setup mine just to get that

[full quiver]

lol

[plain wing]

@sharp meteor yea im sure there will be MANY MANY more games where I just am bad (not related to gear)

[golden bone]

just made a warrior

sent a shitton of conquest caches to it from my main

got full gear, went into rbg

crit 39k execute on a rogue

today was a good day

[sharp meteor]

[elder wigeon]

weak, hit a 100K

[plain wing]

conquest caches?

[sharp meteor]

375 conq on your 1400 (or maye it was 1600) cr main

and it can be opened for a random conq piece

so nice for setting up the alts

[plain wing]

oh damn

[wicked magnet]

thats what you'll be saying when you get 5 pvp trinkets in a row you don't use

its not that bad, some of my alts got really lucky with it but one of mine did get a bunch of crappy pvp trinkets

[full quiver]

lol

sent like 20k conq to my shadow priest

didn't get 2h wep

reee

[warped warren]

[sacred pelican]

what leggo do you go for arms as necro?

[sharp meteor]

enduring is really nice

best general pick imo

[thick reef]

why does alot of arena LFG say "Looking for btags"

[sharp meteor]

because regular partners > finding new ones every time you get on

[thick reef]

ah

[sharp meteor]

also whenever u find somebody new to play with try to play with them again soon

too easy to add peopple then just awkwardly never queue LOL

[thick reef]

is there any good pvp discords? for NA or NA horde more specifically.

[wheat jay]

Used to be this one

Or do you mean to find people to play with?

Cuz fastest way would still be to queue and add people with whom you haveve good results

[thick reef]

ya

not just for warriors, but u know, everyone

[wheat jay]

Queue is the best

Do you have any past seasons exp/achievements?

If not then just queue

[full quiver]

I found a lot of people from LFG, rbgs

You can join other class discorda and try and find people to play with

[wet scarab]

If you do RBGs you’ll often be asked to join a community’s discord and if they’re cool you can find great arena partners that you vibe with

Lol sometimes I add people on bnet after we have a really good sesh together and I don’t ask them to requeue because I’m worried I’ll play badly and be exposed

[thick reef]

lol same

i dont think i deserve my rating/gear.

[sharp meteor]

me swinging from god complex to imposter syndrome based on how my last queue session went

[frosty flower]

me too

[wet scarab]

That said once I got over it because the friend reached out and wanted to play, it swings back and forth, but it gives you the confidence to try out new strats and to give constructive feedback, and I’m this close to duelist from playing with three of those folks

So it’s totally worth taking the chance to be embarrassed briefly

[full quiver]

what weapon goes best with this mage tower mog?

[elder wigeon]

if I tell you I'd have to kill you

[solar oyster]

I am ALWAYS partial to https://www.wowhead.com/item=13053

[elder wigeon]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=19169/nightfall that's weak

[solar oyster]

LOL its not awful for a classic 2H sword but its all about the name

[plain wing]

Getting really disheartened alreayd....

doing skirmishes and I just cant do anything

I die immediately at 210 ilvl.

[frosty flower]

Don’t do skirms

[solar oyster]

basically you get partnered with a(nother) newb and will probably face some troll team of 2kers

at least that is how I feel when I do them

[sharp meteor]

Do some random bgs, particularly epic

Arms is quite dreadful in skirms even with gear

210 arms in a skirm is like a flea

[vestal ibex]

Honestly listen to the guys above, skirms aren't a good way to gear/gain honor, as well as being full of geared people putting you in a situation where your odds of losing at 210ilvl are overwhelming

Random BG's and Epic BG's you will find a fair amount of equally low-geared people

[full quiver]

210 is also super behind, base conq pvp gear is 233

[full quiver]

That looks like it might mayxh

The reds in the armor are just like slightly off everything else lol

[eager oracle]

Hey all, What dom gem would y’all use for pvp, is there a certain haste % I don’t want to drop below as well. Currently playing Kyrian for 2s\RBGs, working on necro atm for 3s

[scarlet barn]

You dont really use dom gem in pvp

Because they are nerfed

[raw summit]

Absorb one is "decent"

[eager oracle]

I’ve got 259 sylv shoulders and I’m currently 1800 so my gear is capped at 252

They are pretty high vers so just looking for something to put in there that would be best for min/max since I don’t see ever replacing those?

[eager oracle]

Thx, I remember them nerfing that so wasn’t sure if healing received or something was the play instead

[fickle forge]

It's nerfed by 75% or so

Not particularily good

[full quiver]

Lol

[vestal ibex]

How do you guys deal with being kited? Whenever I go against hunters, DH, Feral etc I find myself sometimes waddling my fat orc ass in non-mans-land unable to connect

I know it's my inexperience causing this!

[sharp meteor]

Maintain hamstring/piercing, don't charge if you don't have to, use avatar for the root break, bladestorm cc.

Like in opener don't generally charge stuff with more mobility than you if possible, like ww/havoc.

[fierce elm]

stop charging at the start of a match

is a big one

[sharp meteor]

Yeah just walk into them, hamstring/piercing/overpower

[fierce elm]

just mount up and walk to them and hamstring

[vestal ibex]

Ahh good shout, I've always charged at the start

[fierce elm]

ya fuck that

[sharp meteor]

so the idea is that you want to be on them as uch as possible, but always during your cds

so have cc/mobility to guarantee your uptime

and/or wiat for them to burn mobility

[fierce elm]

Also generally you can afford to pick DS to cover your mistakes

[vestal ibex]

Literally my biggest issue with playing Warr was the lack of self healing and being rooted/slowed on repeat... If I can solve one of those problems I'll be happy 😂

[fierce elm]

if you and your healer plays somewhat right it should be hard to kite you

With spell reflect, bladestorm, charge, leap, 100% uptime on slow, avatar

[sharp meteor]

won't have perfect uptime but should in most matchups be at least on them for the duration of your cds

usually getting kited is misusing mobility tho

[soft plank]

Is there a situation where you dps different targets as retwar in 3s?

[sharp meteor]

not always but usually

[fickle forge]

You have the most anti-CC out of all melees, so if you just learn to use it better you'll be fine

[vestal ibex]

100% this is me

[sharp meteor]

i have usually found success swapping off their cds

[fickle forge]

@full quiver @full quiver @full quiver

[sharp meteor]

duel? hit warr. eye for an eye? hitt war. cen ward? hit other guy

[soft plank]

No, i mean ret dpses one target and war the other?

[sharp meteor]

splitting? maybe if you don't want to stack for one reason or another

like vs kyrian arms u can split until they use spear

[full quiver]

Or it's a frost mage with rank 1 exp playing with demo lock and rdruid on robodome

[sharp meteor]

to avoid the double spear + psyfiend or w/e

[full quiver]

😂😂

[soft plank]

Aha thats solid

[sharp meteor]

shambles

[fickle forge]

Frost mage is just UNBEATABLE

REEEEE

[sharp meteor]

or avoiding stacking vs ww until he leg sweeps

[fierce elm]

stacking vs WW on leg sweep should be a non issue

Just banner it and rotate trinkets

and its fine

as ret warr you are gonna get double swept however you do

[fickle forge]

You can stack on WWs that have leg swep up, but only once

[full quiver]

They should double frost bolt cast time 😂

[fickle forge]

Just KICK it man

It's such a linear cast and they don't try to fake it at all

[vestal ibex]

With the impending rise of Necro Frost Mages, I'm very afraid 😂

[main silo]

What do you guys think is the strongest comp in 2's that not include hunters

[sharp meteor]

sv/rdruid

[plain wing]

Is hitting like a wet noodle just a gear thing?

[sharp meteor]

you said no hunters but like

[sharp meteor]

in part, yes

psychologically 10 ilevs doesn't seem like a lot

then suddenly you're breaking skulls in

my little 259 spriest just vaporizes anything that gets near her in random bgs now

[plain wing]

hahah

ok ill stick with it

I see so many rets its wild

specially in bg's

[sharp meteor]

ret is fun

hit all my buttons

kill 2 people i wasn't targetting

[plain wing]

hahaha

[plain wing]

Having some issues with a macro - trying to make it so when i use warbreaker it pops the badge pvp trinket with it.

#showtooltip Warbreaker
/cast Warbreaker
/use 14

Warbreaker goes off by trinket doesn't.

[fierce elm]

do you have badge on the correct slot

[plain wing]

Yea

[full quiver]

Just change it from 14 to you shift clicking badge

[elder wigeon]

Fuck badge

[sharp meteor]

ya all my homies hate badge

[full quiver]

Wat

[sharp meteor]

insignia gang

[full quiver]

Wtf

Badge on avatar or bust

[sharp meteor]

you'd badge spear

or

[full quiver]

Never

[sharp meteor]

ava can get kind of

hm

[vestal ibex]

Why would you put it on Warbreaker?

[elder wigeon]

badge doesn't line up for shit

if you're mikanikos and get 2+ targets in spear often you gotta hold spear for like 10 seconds, you gotta hold warbreaker for 15 seconds for badge, you have to hold badge for 30 seconds for avatar and bladestorm

none of it works, and god forbid you get disarmed when you use badge with warbreaker

[sharp meteor]

yeah like if you only win in burst windows then it might be fine but in general

insignia feels to synergize with how you want to be playing

haste, insignia and enduring feels super good

[thick reef]

but getting insignia proc when you can't burst (like snared, have no CD etc), feels pointless?

[elder wigeon]

I don't wait for insignia proc to burst and I may be wrong, but I don't see any other top warriors doing that either

it's for more sustain damage and pressure

[wheat jay]

Holding dmg in arena is usually a bad idea

Unless you know you're gonna get fully stopped

[plain wing]

So should i not use badge? Like use the chain trinket or insignia instead?

[elder wigeon]

I will never ever play shackles

and it's up to you

smexxin runs insignia as kyrian and full haste

the higher rated you are, the harder it is to actually have your burst be unpeeled which I think makes badge worse and makes playing for big crit 1 shots impractical

[wheat jay]

Getting big crits during your cds is hard at high rating

People just peel, as you said

Unless you're a Hunter and just proc 20k killshots xD

[elder wigeon]

yeah i find big ass crits to be less common idk if I'm just unlucky as hell but it's just how it is

[wheat jay]

I went crit on survi cuz i play kfc

And any time I get good crit warrior can capitalize on that so

It also depends on comp xD

Also I don't get stopped

Like, I have one CD, which is 20% more dmg

So its not much

[elder wigeon]

yeah I play ret war, kitty, WPS and WMPala atm

kitty is by far the most fun

Kitty > WMPala > WPS > ret war in terms of fun

[wheat jay]

KFC is fun

[sharp meteor]

my partner plays every melee except feral i ask and he goes on some tangent about furries i just wanna play kitty/jungle

[wheat jay]

I'm survi tho, bm is better for it

[elder wigeon]

he's scared he'll turn into a furry

can't handle even the slightest of temptations

[wheat jay]

If he's scared of becoming furry that must mean he already has some deep desire for it

If he hadnt he'd have nothing to fear

[sharp meteor]

I'm setting up my druid now and maybe I can bait him into setting up his if it works out nicely

He'll probably like kyrian boom + necro dh

[wheat jay]

Tell him to stop being a pussy, and just play one

[sharp meteor]

yeah he should

both specs rly nice right now

[wheat jay]

Tbh I wouldn't play feral as well

Not because furry or something

Only because I don't have mage tower appearance for cat

[elder wigeon]

that's fair

[wheat jay]

Yep

Why do you make selfies like you're 50

[sharp meteor]

because it seemed funny at the time

also surprised that they didn't

give kitties a mage tower form

like an edgy illidan green one

mt dew cat

[full quiver]

The man is playing badge at 1600 or whatever lol

[wheat jay]

Or just give shit to everyone

[full quiver]

Let him live his life

[wheat jay]

Different colour, problem fixed

[sharp meteor]

i guess they didn't wanna recolor all 36

but they did do 12 sets

so idk

shambles

actually maybe the sets were created ages ago

like there's 2 unused cm set tints in the files

[wheat jay]

Damn

This is lit

[elder wigeon]

i would love a recolored mop timewalking challenge mode event

just like this mage tower

[wheat jay]

Ye same

Or i dunno

Fucking weapon recolors from mage toerr

Tower

Just fel coloured tint for everyone

[wet scarab]

Worth playing leaper into hunters and rdruids? Who would you go for first if mobility was no longer an issue?

[near delta]

Spell reflect leggo would be more value right?

[uncut pollen]

That sounds grief yeah

Would rather run double charge than losing a leggo

[wet scarab]

I feel like if I was able to keep 100% uptime on the druid the value of double spell reflect kind of goes down

[near delta]

Honestly I kinda wanna try it now lol

[thick reef]

swear to god, biggest thing keeping me from playing kyrian is newfound resolve

fuck this soulbind

[sharp meteor]

I feel like I play pelagos the least.

Although getting a spirit before a spear is super nice

[wet scarab]

I hate that bis Mikanikos restricts you to two potency conduits

Feels so neutered compared to necro

[uncut pollen]

Do you have to run hammer?

Don't think hammer isn't even that good in pvp

[sharp meteor]

there's only two good ones as kyrian anyways

[uncut pollen]

Mike triple pot seems fine to me

[sharp meteor]

eh

i don't hate piercing or adaptive

but they aren't the necro banner 20% str

[wet scarab]

You have to take sparkling driftglobe into melee no?

Means you can’t take piercing

As that path is only two potency conduits

[sharp meteor]

sparkling what now

[wet scarab]

The ability that stuns enemies for 3 secs when you’re at 30% health

[sharp meteor]

oh autostun yeah

[wet scarab]

Yeah if you take that then you only get 2 potency conduits

[sharp meteor]

like i said two potency feels fine

piercing feels underwhelming

[wet scarab]

Really? Always found it really nice against rogues in particular

Lots of good pressure and usually a kill against RM

I only really feel like I miss Kyrian against rogues and hunters

[sharp meteor]

yeah it's like christmas when i see that a hunter is playing razor

defensively vs stuff like retwarr also nice

like gl killing the psyfiend lmaooo

[wet scarab]

Heh quite a few times I just stood there outside the spear looking at the rogue attempting to flee and dying to the dot