pvp

[green wharf]

immediately goes off after using it

and it have wooping 11 sec CD

[rancid granite]

dont die then

[green wharf]

[fickle forge]

If it was easier to get the damage from arms off

It'd feel better

But you need way too much uptime to get anything done

[green wharf]

people either die before you set up stuff, or you just die before doing it

nah man, fuck colossus, i will go back to slayer

[fickle forge]

Yeah colossus is cool, and honestly the stronger spec, but its dependancy just makes it garbage compared to the 0 brain usage slayer

[green wharf]

like, people die before you get demolish up, or you die before it

[rancid granite]

syegfryed you're just a ranged main at heart

[green wharf]

and you have to line up all the buffs+colossus smash to HOPE for a crit and do the big bonk damage

[fickle forge]

If you aren't colossus though, you're better off just being fury

[green wharf]

no, i was doing just fine with fury and prot

i mained arms since cata when is started this game

[exotic forge]

They say the mind of a warrior reflects its game play design

[green wharf]

whats that suppose to mean

[exotic forge]

Go figure

Imo SL did it right

Mortal Combo conduit + Enduring Blow felt so right

You had so much uptime

[green wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/frodo-keep-your-secrets-alright-then-lotr-gif-12907121

[exotic forge]

[rancid granite]

LOL

[fickle forge]

Mortal Combo was kinda ass Imo

[exotic forge]

Was it really when those Mortal Strikes could also apply CS?

[fickle forge]

I'm kind of tired of all this Mortal Strike reset gimmick

I'd rather have MS hit harder

[exotic forge]

You'd essentially have 30 sec of CS on target

[fickle forge]

I mean yeah

I'm not playing outlaw bro

Idc for double striking and shit, I'd rather have the big crit

[exotic forge]

I mean, yeah

Martial prowess sucks

[fickle forge]

It's all I ask man, current arms feels like a pseudo fury

[exotic forge]

But I'd hate a big hit + extra hit chance over shit ton of modifiers

The modifiers don't do anything when they're this nerfed

[fickle forge]

Demolish has potential to be an incredible button

But it needs a rework

[green wharf]

i would be fine with 5 stacks instead of fucking 10

[exotic forge]

If it were a guaranteed crit on last hit I'd like it more

Kinda like Chaos Bolt

[green wharf]

they would greatly reduce the damage if that was the case

[rancid granite]

JUST MAKE IT IMMUNE TO EVERYTHING PLEASE

[exotic forge]

^^

[rancid granite]

i dont need 10 different disrupts mid channel

walk away, fine but no disrupts

especially fear and disarm

just RUINING my class fantasy

[exotic forge]

I hardly see myself using Demolish during bursts tbh

I get more use of having 10 stacks than the ability itself

[green wharf]

i like how chat went from defending the spec, to criticizing it thereafter

[exotic forge]

We were defending its previous iterations

[rancid granite]

na arms is best its ever been

because its what exists now

[fickle forge]

That is definitely wrong

[worthy fern]

Just make you able to
Move while channeling and it’s fixed

[green wharf]

i also didnt notice shit with the supposed take 5% less damage

[rancid granite]

but its peaceful and full of joy

[green wharf]

still die like a dog

[worthy fern]

I like current arms dmg profile it just needs something gimicky like the rest of the specs to compete

Need sharpen buffed to like 90
Percent

[green wharf]

arms gimmic is stacking 6 lil buffs to MS

[exotic forge]

It's a 5% lol

[fickle forge]

The profile is good, even if it could use a buff

[green wharf]

you would expect something better than 0%

[exotic forge]

It makes a very subtle difference compared to when you have D Stance or DBTS up

Granted you're not gonna be sitting D Stance

[green wharf]

point is, i dont feel any difference in survivabiliy with slayer and colossus

in fact, i survive more with slayer due to death drive

because ignore pain is ass

[exotic forge]

You're not going to when the spec is squishy baseline

[worthy fern]

@fickle forge if we hit any harder we’d be busted, we need like a buffed spear for uptime or something that makes our dmg stick more like a better debuff.

[fickle forge]

Can we hit harder than this?

[worthy fern]

I’ve always thought that deep wounds scaling off the dmg done would be sick

Fat Ms crit into a fat bleed

You do hit harder than that

[wheat jay]

No

[worthy fern]

Ms cranks and execute semi cranks

[fickle forge]

Execute definitely doesn't crank

Only MS does

[worthy fern]

Execute regularly hits like 700k to a mil for me

[fickle forge]

Pretty mid for an execute ability

I can only make it crank with full CDs, somewhat

[green wharf]

remove executioner precision and buf base MS

[fickle forge]

But it really just is a glorified slam

[exotic forge]

It doesn't really execute anymore

So much for an ability that consumes extra rage to "deal more damage"

[worthy fern]

Yea i mean id take buffs but if im pretty sure arms does some
Of the most dmg in the game if they can sit there and hit someone

So I don’t think buffing dmg is the answer

I’d take a fat deep wounds buff or rend

[green wharf]

buff defensives+mobility

[worthy fern]

Or something defensive so it would feel better to intervene

Duel etc getting use again

[exotic forge]

I'd rather take defensive buffs over mobility

Arms already feels mobile enough with Slayer imo

[worthy fern]

Same

Honestly if they just nerfed frost mage snares and roots my arena life would be a lot better

[exotic forge]

Yeah you can essentially Charge twice every 10 sec

[worthy fern]

Would be cool if they made it so avatar made snares and roots severely reduced for its whole duration as opposed to just breaking them when pressed

Then you take the long avatar talent

Infinite uptime

[green wharf]

i was doing some wq, got fucked by a feral as arms, came back as fury, eat him up three times already

[exotic forge]

Or add Conq Banner

[green wharf]

i just can survive better with enraged regen than shit ignore pain

[exotic forge]

[worthy fern]

@exotic forge that would also work

[fierce elm]

oh my god go to bed

[exotic forge]

If it was the choice node on Avatar that'd be nice.

[fierce elm]

Its so weird how Arms hasnt received a cooldown that just adds bleeding damage on abilities

[worthy fern]

Deep wounds just being a meaningless bleed added to our mastery that doesn’t even scale off mastery is also weird

[exotic forge]

Deep wounds should be baseline, mastery should be something else

[worthy fern]

It basically is

It is our mastery but has nothing to do with it except the name

[exotic forge]

I'd take a flat dmg increase to our abilities over it

[green wharf]

deep wounds is fine as a standalone lil buff

problem is having nodes that buff it

like its a main aspect/core of spec

[worthy fern]

Ye im jsut saying i dont think our Ms for example could be buffed again

Maybe a fat rend buff would be good for dmg while we are being kited and add a talent to make rend apply hs

[full quiver]

Arms does a lot of dam already

[lavish quest]

Instead of bstance reducing the duration of slows, how about it reduce the effectiveness of slows

That'd be cool

So we could maybe walk at them with our worst slow in the game

[green wharf]

slam/MS applies rend

[stark agate]

fierce followthrough for fury?

[hybrid socket]

Uhg. I don't know what's going on with BG blitz MRR. I'm hard stuck at 1300 and at like 2100 in all other modes. My alt got to 2k in BG blitz in 8 games. It's like the MM system is bugged and you get stuck forever at low rating

Anyone see something similar?

[sterile moth]

Yes Vierth, only been back for a couple weeks but seeing the same thing in blitz. Like 30% win rate and most matches aren’t competitive

[stark agate]

what talents do you take to make slam strong on arms?

[exotic forge]

None

Slam hits decently without anything

[stark agate]

oh it's just turbo buffed in pvp I see

[limber relic]

bring back MOP Avatar where u cant be rooted/slowed

ggs

[stark agate]

If that's too op make it a keystone talent for arms

gg

[urban skiff]

i think the rating system is bugged

like a display bug, not an actual bug

execute crits wheee

DH enjoying their buffs

[green wharf]

did you abandon any games?

cuz, i got a disconnect when i was at 1750 in bliz, lost 222mmr, and never got good ratings/teams again

i went down to 1400~~1500 and i cant climb higher

[jovial torrent]

im honestly shocked they havent added in 10% dapening or somthing to bg blitz

its so boring healers literally never dieing

[exotic forge]

Fighting disc priests be like

[wheat jay]

Its skirmish tho

Doesn't rly say anything about balance of classes

[urban skiff]

Play a cc class and never miss camping nodes again

[azure geyser]

PvP is so hard to get into god damn

[urban skiff]

Just skirmish i'm showing a cap from.

Seems they're, but occasionally i find a DH that just deals ridiculous damage. It's pretty cool

It's hard to show the damage from other content in just a screenshot

[azure geyser]

This is what I load into after 30 minutes, and then the lobby just drops and im at the back of the queue line again lmfao

[jovial torrent]

ive had that happen once, no idea what cuases it

[wheat jay]

Dh has big opener and aoe

Other than that it's dogshit

[azure geyser]

DR big opener and dont fight in darkness is the DH 101 rule of thumbs afaik?

Does Disarm help against DH?

[wheat jay]

kinda

[urban skiff]

yes but not against the stuff you don't want them doing

[azure geyser]

Enudring Rage/Battle Trance is better then?

I see Disarm/Enduring Rage/Battle Trance is the usually choice for 3rd PvP talent

[urban skiff]

i never run disarm

not because I'm good or anything, just because I just don't have a keybind for it i like

[exotic forge]

5v5 is back pog

[azure geyser]

Really? Ive heard warrior is one of the classes that dont have that much button bloat though

[fierce elm]

They dont, but still an extra keybind

[urban skiff]

I'm a simple man. I can find keybinds for my shaman ez but my warrior i didn't plan for the number of keys we've started to see with recent expansions, and i don't want to adapt

[exotic forge]

No button bloat on warriors and I have like 4 action bars

[fickle forge]

How do you have binds for enh and not warr

Enh is up like 7 buttons

[urban skiff]

12 buttons and they're all stormstrike

But really i did a lot of clever macro shit on my shaman to keep everything safe for stupid idiot me

[slow solstice]

surely you just have some redundant bindings

[urban skiff]

Nop

It just doesn't fit my system

And that's ok. I'm not trying to be world champion. I can accept playing without disarm.

I accept the cost of playing worse, to have higher comfort

[green wharf]

preposterous

you need disarm people middle demolish

[jovial torrent]

bg blitz is so good

[green wharf]

even 2H frost is more satisfying to play than arms

[urban skiff]

How can i disarm mid demolish when i'm casting demoish??

[green wharf]

you disarm others doing it

you play slayer

i was doing some tweaks in my keybinds, arms play much better with tclap build

but still rage starved, cause every shit cost rage

unlike prot and fury

[jovial torrent]

this is what ive been liking so far for blitz

not sure between the leech and second wind

part of me also wants to drop sharpen for disarm

[green wharf]

i dont take th lower cd for dragon roar, cuz it doesnt allign with other burst

[urban skiff]

Skullsplitter

Another build i cannot play because keybinds

[green wharf]

one more fucking button?

[jovial torrent]

skullsplitter is pve anyway

[green wharf]

hell no

tclap build at least free rend and harmstring

[jovial torrent]

yeh pretty much just using it to keep aoe slow and rend up

[green wharf]

problem is rage still, arms need more skills to be used without rage

[urban skiff]

I have room for zero buttons

[jovial torrent]

mortal strike probably just shouldnt cost rage, its a core ability

[urban skiff]

Technically if i spec out of demolish i can fit one more spell

[jovial torrent]

cant really change execute cus its spammable

just got a random solo shuffle q pop, arms feels awful compared to fury in it

[urban skiff]

Maybe we're just building arms wrong

I want arms to play like shadowlands condemn

Minus the charge on condemn if that's angering the poor mages.

[green wharf]

fury skills that does not consume rage:
raging blow
bloodthirsty
whirlwind
onslaught
Odyn fury
bladestorm
execute
Percing howl

fury skills that consume rage:
Rampage
Tclap
Harmstring

[slow solstice]

tclap doesnt cost rage?

[green wharf]

it does if you are slayer

[slow solstice]

why would you ever press that as slayer

[green wharf]

right, im just putting up the statistics

technically consumes rage

arms have only overpower, colosus smash and bladestorm that DOES NOT consume rage

[azure geyser]

Any general tips for someone new to PvP?

[green wharf]

i guess Percing howl as well

[slow solstice]

queue watch others play

[urban skiff]

Why is it even in the class tree to begin with

[slow solstice]

for thane

[urban skiff]

Was there way before thane and was always a dead talent since they brought talents back

[azure geyser]

Its a bit hard to watch others play when I dont really know whats going on. Should I just find some streamer on twitch or?

[slow solstice]

idk because for me as a pve i just queued up in ss and did as much damage as i could

only thing i watched was pikaboo in my recommendations or savix montages

but i never understood (prob still dont enough)

also like do you have your ui setup

are you missing game knowledge

[azure geyser]

idk im a pve andy

[slow solstice]

https://youtu.be/mAZTbVjmQQo?si=zAUzO7C5EerJ75Hx

do this and prob just queue until you get stuck at a rating

then watch people

for warrior players there magnusz, laros, mud

[azure geyser]

Thanks

Follow Murlok.io for talents etc too

[slow solstice]

yeah

[azure geyser]

Any tips against Paladins? it seems like I jsut get bursted from 40% to 0% in a single CD

[slow solstice]

protip press cc often

uh

[azure geyser]

yes sir

[slow solstice]

i think you just press a defensive and have your healer help

or press fear as a defensive

[azure geyser]

Any tips for target focussin in SS?

[urban skiff]

Which one plays most unga bunga and least skillfully but still sees success?

[slow solstice]

i dont know

i think in the past month ive watched or played like 5 hours of pvp

vs hundreds pve

[fierce elm]

Mag

[fierce elm]

Save CC for wake of ashes, pop a defensive if you cant get out of it

can use spell reflect too during burst

[slow solstice]

ty afro

[fierce elm]

Kiting prevents some damage

you can even disarm if they trinket storm bolt or you dont have a CC

and it prevents final verdict

[slow solstice]

im legit so out of touch with pvp

[fickle forge]

You really only care about the Hammer of Light hit doe

[fierce elm]

which is prevented

So d o n e

the only surprise HoL is the free one

[fickle forge]

It's after wake it comes right?

[fierce elm]

yes

Any decent paladin is going to go Holy power to 2 - Wake - insta hammer of light

[jovial torrent]

ye just keep track of wake of ahses cd and most use final reckoning too which they will use every other wake

wake 30 sec cd, final reck 1 min

[green wharf]

Blizz can never do things right

people complained about button bloat

they removed a shit ton os skills

going overboard

[fierce elm]

oh my god blizz cant NEVER do things right

[green wharf]

then people said they want abilities back

[fierce elm]

EVERYTHING they do is WRONG

[jovial torrent]

adding 2 "hero specs" per spec was a craaaazy thing to do

[green wharf]

and they add too much useless

[fierce elm]

you try pleasing millions of idiots and try to navigate that lmao

[green wharf]

list me 3 things they did right recently

[fierce elm]

Remove a spell, turns out it was useful in some essence for some niche use

that people wanted

TWW so far has been a great expansion overall

So yeah

[green wharf]

[fierce elm]

plenty in my opinion

[green wharf]

i heard people are loving m+

[fierce elm]

the dungeons are fun

[slow solstice]

its fun

pugging is not

[fierce elm]

the death timers is the only thing that fucks everyone

the affixes are aight, the step up from 11-12 is kinda wild but at that point you are doing high keys

and have to adapt

BGB has been wildly sucessful and overall a good thing

[wheat jay]

dungs are MAD fun this season

[jovial torrent]

them removing this after mop cucked afflic warlocks so hard, went from having somthing to cast to being locked out of all shadow spells with nothing to press

[slow solstice]

hi artji

:3

[fierce elm]

Solo shuffle has recieved some attention and imo moving away from 3s being the only bracket that matters is a good thing

[wheat jay]

yo

[fierce elm]

Meta has been aight since 11.0.5 outside of BM hunter

Every spec feels like they bring something in PvE

[green wharf]

not rly

[fierce elm]

The transmog changes are amazing

PvE balancing has been solid as fuck

TWW artwork/music style overall is great

[wheat jay]

true

[urban skiff]

DF. TWW. D4

[green wharf]

grant it, only thing i remember they actually did right in tww was adding a class buf to shaman

[jovial torrent]

my pala is bugged and cant seem to unlock shadowlands to farm tmog

[fierce elm]

Hero talents bring something to every spec

[wheat jay]

even some worse specs are still decent in pve and aren't too far behind

[jovial torrent]

hopfully they fix that soon

[fierce elm]

This is just a echo chamber sometimes while yall are subbed anyways lmao

TWW overall has been great

[green wharf]

i was more talking about wow, and d4 bad is a meme i remember was a thing

[fierce elm]

DF s3 was pretty fun

DF s4 was pretty fun

didnt do PvE those seasons though so cant answer for that

it feels like Blizzard is actually adjusting and adding things people want and both PvE and PvP are proof for that right now

[urban skiff]

D3 and d4 were both excellent fun

[green wharf]

DF was amazing if you compare to shitlands

[fierce elm]

Things we have begged for years are being added which is amazing

[green wharf]

it was like getting legion after wod

[urban skiff]

Preach

[fierce elm]

S3-S4 DF was great period

Yall just doomposting because your spec is C-tier lmao

[green wharf]

ok paladin player, calm down

[fierce elm]

There is nothing wrong with disliking it

Ah yes, my own C-tier spec mb lmao

But saying Blizzard has done nothing right with TWW/DF is just flat out wrong

[green wharf]

i was more talking about adding/removing skills, since it was what Zercher mentioned about adding tclap for fury again

[fickle forge]

NOTHING right man

[green wharf]

i was not rly being hyperbole about the whole thing

[fierce elm]

Which they have also done correctly across the years

Every class has useless things in their tree, which is just how a talent tree with so many nodes works

[fickle forge]

Can we do it correctly for arms next?

[fierce elm]

But just because you find it useless in the area you play in, doesnt mean its useless overall

[green wharf]

thats not how it should work

its bad design

[fierce elm]

that is how big trees in every mmo works

[wheat jay]

not pvp lmao

but pve and open world

amazing

[urban skiff]

Annie spec was the goat. S2 fury was peak and the most fun the spec has ever been for me.

[fierce elm]

PvP has felt fine

ever since 11.0.5

So yeah, this is just how trees work in most MMOs

There are always going to be inferior/useless nodes

and from the systems implemented across the years, this is the best iteration it has been

[green wharf]

thats just excuse for their garbage trees, especially when some trees are actually fine

[fierce elm]

I remember the 3 choice rows in MoP and how much they sucked

Every tree has useless nodes

[urban skiff]

They better not being back mop talents.

[green wharf]

warlocks got a lot of their skills robbed, that used to be baseline, and became nodes

[green wharf]

i much preffered mop tree tbh

[fierce elm]

Now that tree had a fuckton of useless shit lmao

[wheat jay]

what tree is garbage tho

legit

[green wharf]

it could have being done better

[wheat jay]

cuz i can think of hunter having bad trees

[urban skiff]

It's not even about useless nodes. Some have uses for different content. Besides thunderclap for fury i have a hard time thinking of talents that are decidedly without some usage

[wheat jay]

warrior has 3 great ones

[fierce elm]

Thats what im saying

They always have some use in niché content

[wheat jay]

thane fury meta in m+ for warrior

[green wharf]

warrior base is pretty lame

[wheat jay]

so it has good uses

[wheat jay]

base warrior talents or hero ones?

cuz base warrior is 100% functional

in all types of content

[urban skiff]

Yes but we were initially talking about how fury had thunderclap in the class tree long before getting thane.

[wheat jay]

its a class tree

its for warrior, not for fury only

[green wharf]

one of the criticism i ehar alot from pvers is how the stamina/armor talent is too late

and cost 2 nodes instead of 1

i feel, like the trees should have less options, and some skills should just be baseline

[fierce elm]

I feel like the class trees are very well made

[urban skiff]

Other talent's change functionality depending on your spec. Not adding something to thunderclap to make it have use was a mistake.

[green wharf]

i remember they trimmed a lot of the shaman nodes that cost 2 to cost 1 instead

[fierce elm]

That is coming from someone who mains a spec who had literally the worst class tree in the game pre 11.0.5

[green wharf]

improved the class a fuckon

[green wharf]

your feelings are wrong

[fierce elm]

Ah yes

The "you are wrong" argument

[green wharf]

its not an argument, its a gag

[wheat jay]

bruh

[green wharf]

[fierce elm]

Class trees are class trees for a reason

Yeah, the paladin class tree was absolutely wildly bad

like it was fucking crazy

[slow solstice]

druids

[fierce elm]

But in the end class trees are class trees

[urban skiff]

Wdym? Druid tree is full of choices

[fierce elm]

They have struck a pretty good ratio between button bloat and meaningful abilities tbh

Now to be fair, warrior had recieved about 0 positive gain patches

but there is always going to be lesser specs

[green wharf]

and warrior tree is not even choices, everyone run the same build anyway

[slow solstice]

?????

druid is easily the worst current class tree

its not even close

[green wharf]

there is some crazy people that try to make spear work

but spear is not going to be a thing

[fierce elm]

No way, people run the most meta build despite having a ton of choices?

[urban skiff]

What makes it the worst? I have more choices in that than in shaman tree

[urban skiff]

Spear already is a thing

[fierce elm]

lackluster from what I understand

and having nodes in weird places

[wheat jay]

cuz druid has 4 specs

all in one class tree

[urban skiff]

We have like 4 mandatory talents in final tier as warriors. I don't think druid is very bad.

[wheat jay]

then dh is 10/10 in class tree

cuz its only two specs

and everything is either good or niche

nothing is bad

[green wharf]

the choices:

[wheat jay]

hunter is such a fucking mess i have no clue what it even is at this point

[fierce elm]

lmao

[wheat jay]

warrior is good

tree is decent

[fierce elm]

"Oh my god we have so many useless nodes because everyone will optimize into the good ones"

[wheat jay]

i only dislike that i cant have fear in pve

[slow solstice]

you legit cannot play the game with having half you talents be worthless

[wheat jay]

neverending story xD

i believe it started in legion

[fierce elm]

it started every since WoW was released

[wheat jay]

when players were given a HUGE choice

[fierce elm]

'and people optimized stuff

[wheat jay]

sorry, shadowlands not legion

cuz in shadowlands we got 4 covenants

and the issue became much worse than before

[urban skiff]

What? Number of talents having worth is meaningless. What matters is the end result

[green wharf]

its not about being optimized, is being literall garbage if you dont pick the right choices

[wheat jay]

especially since you were forced into a choice for all content

[wheat jay]

if you buff/nerf things people will jsut find new best stuff

people will ALWAYS optimize fun out of games

and replace fun with meta

[green wharf]

the problem is

[wheat jay]

power > fun for 99% of the playerbase

[green wharf]

we are not talking about like just 100k less dps

we are talking about the spec being functional or not

[wheat jay]

ok

what talents are we talking about then?

give me examples

[urban skiff]

People skip the extra rage talent for warrior because it's "bad", but if they gave it a chance they would realize it's comfy as fuck. Suddenly you can do back to back rampages

[green wharf]

you cannot run an arms build without the bleeds

[slow solstice]

you have to be trolling right

[green wharf]

even if you have the choice to

[fierce elm]

Can you press MS/OP/Execute without any talents lmao

[wheat jay]

you mean whole two bleeds?

rend, troar?

[green wharf]

yeah, and thus not using the talents that buf those

[jovial torrent]

out of what ive seen paladin tree is the best thought out, warrior has too many good talents so has to sacrifice alot, paladins talents just enhances stuff they get baseline slightly

[wheat jay]

rampage without stacks and buffs is not the big hitter tho

[fierce elm]

Paladin was changed into a great tree

[wheat jay]

you play EB in pvp

you play massacre

you play overpower talents

you play bladestorm with unhinged

sudden death

[urban skiff]

It's an objective truth. whether you have 5 talents with high worth or 60 talents with high worth is completely utterly mathematically meaningless. We're balanced around our peak, not how many of our talents are good

[wheat jay]

bleed talents are rend, and troar, cuz they give most dmg

[jovial torrent]

if ret pala randomly got given a MS effect it would hands down be the best melee

[urban skiff]

But it's slaughterhouse stacks

[fierce elm]

Ret is a hard spec to balance

but absolutely lmao

[wheat jay]

ye, youcan do two globals and then 2nd rampage

won't change much

but you do SO much more dmg

[fierce elm]

Ret has to average out to mid in everything or its just bonkers

[slow solstice]

you have to go through the entire feral part to get tanky as moonkin

or resto druid

[fierce elm]

Mid damage but goated utility/heals = busted
Huge damage but utility does less = busted

[slow solstice]

like

[jovial torrent]

we havent seen what any of season 2's gear might look like have we, its guna be horde/goblin theme i assume

[slow solstice]

????

its horrible

[wheat jay]

noone knows

[fierce elm]

Probably the elite weapons/tabard/cloak

[wheat jay]

tabard cloak 100% goblins

[urban skiff]

Damage on its own is meaningless. Only "effective healing requirement per second" matters.

[fierce elm]

The sets this season seems to be independent of raid for most

[wheat jay]

damage reduces enemy hp to 0

[jovial torrent]

plz blizzard a good 2h sword this tim earound

[wheat jay]

damage is #1 thing in this game

otherwise bm wouldn't be that good Zercher

its not legion or shadowlands where you have setups

or bfa

[jovial torrent]

they need to get back to making all pvp sets red/black

[wheat jay]

you do damage

and win on damage

#1 thing is dps

[jovial torrent]

add in a reward where u hit 2200 it makes the conquest baseline gear have a glow too

[fierce elm]

Yall did damage yday and lost

checkmate

[urban skiff]

I feel like you aren't reading what i said or you don't understand the concept of it at least.

[fierce elm]

thats 2400

[wheat jay]

I did

[jovial torrent]

oh really? i thought it was just tabard

[wheat jay]

Kargish didn't

XD

[fierce elm]

2400 is the KSH equivalent

iirc

[wheat jay]

possibly

[jovial torrent]

well damn, maybe il be in bg blitz longer than i wanted

[wheat jay]

2400 in pvp, 2500 m+ score

[exotic forge]

I need a two handed chainsaw

[wheat jay]

or queen ansurek mythic

[exotic forge]

Thanks

[wheat jay]

2500 score in m+ is SUPER easy

do +10s

[slow solstice]

its the fact that the game becomes unplayable unless you go through talents that have 0 value to your spec

[urban skiff]

That's not true. If you could get a 100% ms effect with 100% up time, at the cost of dealing 0 dps the entire match. Would you win in a team fight?

[slow solstice]

???

[wheat jay]

ok you do 0 dps

[urban skiff]

I would say it would be a 100% win rate

[wheat jay]

noone dies

your math ain't mathing big man

[slow solstice]

mashallah

[urban skiff]

TEAM fight

Bro you need to start reading if you want to dance with me.

[fierce elm]

lmao

Stop flirting

[wheat jay]

2v2 is also a team fight, and healer and doing much dmg xd

either way

[urban skiff]

He started it. Seductively ignoring my words

[wheat jay]

dmg is #1

that's why bm is op

[exotic forge]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-huh-what-say-get-gif-26522058

[wheat jay]

that's why very often lock+ele or lock+mage or lock+sp are op

they don't have ms

they do FUCKTON of damage

[fierce elm]

not entirely true

But also not entirely false

[wheat jay]

bm is op cuz of unavoidable unkiteable unlosable unhealable damage

[fierce elm]

also not entirely true

but not entirely false

[urban skiff]

It's a yes or no question. Would you or would you not win 100% of your matches under those conditions?

I'm going to answer it for you. Yes you would. So we agree damage is not king. What matters is how much healing it takes to keep them alive long enough to beat you

[fierce elm]

BM is busted because it has everything

It has no weakness

[wheat jay]

you don't have 100% ms tho

[fierce elm]

Passive damage, cant be slowed, incredible defensives, cleave damage, wild damage overall, insane CC

[urban skiff]

Bro stop it. I can only get so erect from you ignoring the concept of hypothetical situations that prove a point.

[fierce elm]

Outlaw is one small damage buff away from taking the crown from BM

[wheat jay]

you wouldn't have fury in top tier if it was giving good ms but near zero dmg

[exotic forge]

It's very simple. You take the talents that increase your damage. You pick those that make you useful. You ignore those that make you look like a shitstick.

[wheat jay]

i refuse

#1 is damage

be it consistent or burst, #1 is damage

every top comp can either oneshot you in a stun 100-0, or can do so much dmg that your healer can't heal through it

[urban skiff]

You pick the talents that takes the most healing to keep them going.

That's universally true. It also explains why you pick up roots, slows, cc.

[fierce elm]

If you had 4 million dps but someone had 100% immunity who would win

[urban skiff]

YOU'RE DESCRIBING EFFECTIVE HEALING PER SECOND REQUIREMENTS

[exotic forge]

I mean

[urban skiff]

Fucking thank you. Someone understands the point.

[fierce elm]

lmao

[exotic forge]

Ret doesn't have any ms effects and it still wins

[fierce elm]

Face ret in 2v2

if you lose you need to uninstall

dont @ me

[urban skiff]

Saying damage is #1 is like saying e=mc^2

It's simplified for the dumdums

[wheat jay]

it is #1 tho

[wheat jay]

maybe if dampening didn't exist you'd have a spot in there

[urban skiff]

Effective healing requirement per second is accurate and #1

[wheat jay]

damgur

#1

[fierce elm]

Howwould you kill someone woth 100% immunities if you had infinite damage

[exotic forge]

The only ms they'll ever get

[wheat jay]

as neal de grasse tyson or however its spelled once said

some infinities are bigger than others

[exotic forge]

Atomic bomb vs coughing baby type shit

[fierce elm]

lmao

I dont think Artji understands

[wheat jay]

no understand

only damage

see if kargish did his 700k dps liek i did most games

we'd win

[fierce elm]

naa ya wouldnt lmao

Because yall dont talk

[exotic forge]

You got it right

[wheat jay]

pog

[wheat jay]

i play new spec

i run around and do i dont even know what

haven't played 3s in months

xD

what were they expecting

whaaz level communication?

[urban skiff]

I just want you to tell me how to zugzugg as arms

I don't want any setup or planning

I just want to be colossus to look bigger

[green wharf]

the increase in size is not even noticeable

[wheat jay]

you don't

play fury

[urban skiff]

I'll have you know my grammy notices

[fierce elm]

basic communication

[wheat jay]

best i can do is sing

while running around

and spamming kill command

[rancid granite]

solo shuffle is training to go off vibes zero chat

[urban skiff]

fury don't have colossus for being bigger

I'm willing to accept being enh-tier arms if I can still play like shadowlands condemn crit build

[wheat jay]

ye you cant

not even close

closest to condemn arms is bm with black arrow

[urban skiff]

@fierce elm is this true?

[fierce elm]

hmm?

[urban skiff]

can i never experience condemn crit arms from shadowlands in this season?

[fierce elm]

hell no lmao

[urban skiff]

crit was tuned down but I don't need to be s-tier to have fun

Just the playstyle is enough for me

womp womp, gone up already

last chance to scoop up cheap bloodstones if you guys want sockets

[wheat jay]

dark ranger bm hunter

not even joking

same playstyle hahahaha

[urban skiff]

I don't want to be a yucky hunter

I want to be bigger!

if I cannot have this then it's not right

[rancid granite]

what makes enh shaman zoomies around and bounce around zercher

[lavish quest]

These are the great masters I have to learn from

[wheat jay]

https://tenor.com/view/cody-ko-noel-miller-thats-cringe-eww-what-the-fuck-gif-14490952

[green wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/yikes-davidrose-david-danlevy-schittscreek-gif-13614037685077304427

[lavish quest]

Not fans of biggestbird or baconbreath I see

[green wharf]

Look at the first guy head

this goofy ass looking race

looks like it have microcephaly

[urban skiff]

what levl of zoomies we talking?

this one alone accounts for 16% movement speed

puts me at 170% in ghostwolf when it stacks up

[rancid granite]

i just popped cooldowns on an enh and he did zoomies around the pillar til my cd's were up

[urban skiff]

or 220% with sprint and ghostwolf

[rancid granite]

he like overlapped me too

then he kangaroo jumped around i swear it wasn't lag

lol

[rancid granite]

idk why this isnt more popular i should try this on warr

ohhhhhh

ok those 2 talents make a lot of sense

[urban skiff]

if golbing then double jump

this is my bear form

precast that to take the sting out of rogue secret tech macro

I know i'm gonna be sitting stun for full DR x3 so might as well chill in doggo for 20% less damage taken

[rancid granite]

i need to take a day to read every classes skills and talents tbh

[urban skiff]

i don't

I prefer not knowing anything

What race has the best 2h animations for warrior and why is it kthuman?

[fierce elm]

I just try to understand basic rotation

and ignore talents

[urban skiff]

If i had to understand i'd focus on what stars they want aligned to burst.

[fierce elm]

Outlaw is so much fun in SS

I swear to god

as long as someone doesnt DR randomly you can just control the game entirely

[wheat jay]

isn't it just lontar and his alts?

XD

[lavish quest]

I ain't got no clue mang

[rancid granite]

dats just rogue not outlaw specific

[fierce elm]

Had a warrior go 1-5

He lost the first round because he DR'd everything with shockwave+stormbolt+fear

and I am like gee thanks dude

typed out "DO NOT DR THE HEALER OR I WILL SCREAM"

then won 5 in a row

[full quiver]

Did u mean 5-1

[wheat jay]

sounds like kargish going SHOCKWAVE HAHA

then storm bolts healer

[rancid granite]

yeah so imagine me trying to climb as sub lmao

so rewarding but so frustrating

wonder what I'll hit first 2100 on sub or 2400 on arms

[fierce elm]

sub is a struggle

[fierce elm]

he actually ate shit

I felt bad

It was Hpala/Ret/Devoker/Arms/Outlaw/Disc lobby

so the worst probably lmao

Cant kill Deva, cant kill Ret, cant kill Outlaw

they managed to win one game with Devoker/arms due to running over the disc

or he won a game with me I cant remember

[full quiver]

ret paladin so easy afro

watching vod back from yesterday this guys 2350 and hasn't bubbled once

0 sancs

[fickle forge]

We're playing TWW, DRs don't matter

[wheat jay]

oh right i forgot

don't worry

few more years

and we can play legion classic

and i think i'll actually try survi there

was survi good in legion pvp?

anyone remembers meta?

[fickle forge]

No clue

But turbo insta deleted you

[wheat jay]

hmmm

i found some random tier list from 7.3.5

survi in s

[fickle forge]

I remember facing LSD a lot

[wheat jay]

i looked at arenamate old graphs

apparently was dogshit

xD

[fierce elm]

it is

Every spec is easy

Except for Sub

[wheat jay]

there aren't any difficult classes

[fickle forge]

Not the last season

Demo + Rdruid comps went hard cause fel lord was fat

[urban skiff]

1 "d" or 2?

[hasty pulsar]

they look the same

[rancid granite]

studaddy makes it look like you're a dad named stu

[idle falcon]

best PvP enchants?

[sharp meteor]

Sporebat.

[full quiver]

Two d

[urban skiff]

I think i prefer double d's

[urban skiff]

man if this wasn't stupid low ratings I'd say someone was trying to matchfix bgb

[idle falcon]

question

do you guys take culling cyclone or brutal finish?

[urban skiff]

I prefer ascendance

[idle falcon]

bruh

[rancid granite]

majority take culling a bundle still take BF

[idle falcon]

kk

[rancid granite]

source: habit of checking murlok

[slow solstice]

chef

why are you here

[urban skiff]

This is the pvp discord

[fallen estuary]

Inspired huh

[urban skiff]

figure people have to call me either stud or dad

have a better name though

[north thicket]

Hey, what's the best tactic against Ret 1v1 nowadays?
Having serious trouble with their range and when I am in range I only look stupid because I am not even sure if I should attack into Shield of Vengeance or Eye for an eye... probably a skill issue on my side but I don't f know what to do to have a chance. (Yeah, I also have a Ret and Warriors are simply a dummy)

Reflecting the stun only works against absolute Ret noobs nowadays.

[stark agate]

ret/arms or ret/fury?

[north thicket]

ret vs fury

ret vs prot colossus

:))))

btw thanks for stats guide, haste feels good on colossus

[urban skiff]

beetlejuice beetlejuice beetlejuice

[urban skiff]

womp womp

[lavish quest]

1600

Yuge

[urban skiff]

it's prot and I'm only getting 20 per win already

9 flawless wins to get my transmog so I can start goofing around

(goofing around more than playing prot for big crits)

[fierce elm]

ret/whatever

fury probably

[hybrid socket]

Is Slayer still the best for fury pvp? Or are peeps doing mountain thane?

[violet fossil]

prot

[sharp meteor]

Thane feels nice.

[fallen estuary]

Slayer is just so beautifully built for pvp devs have to gut it entirely to force ppl to choose thane

Theres no way people are just going to take thane over slayer unless the thunder strikes do like half your health in 1 global

[green wharf]

wait, thane isnt that behind slayer though

it works in certain comps

[fallen estuary]

Youre literally griefing yourself

If you donr choose slayer ur missing out on 30-20 sec bladestorms

And just crazy good exe dmg and slayer procs for a aoe ability that doesnt even hit hard

And bladestorm hits like crazy

Also to anyone still using reckless abandon or whatever the bloodbath talent is swap to anger management. Youre welcome

Pvp spec > m+ spec

[rancid granite]

storm bolt in bladestorms op

[green wharf]

i got higher shuffle ratting because thane

[urban skiff]

3rd spot on fury ladder in shuffle is a thane.

[green wharf]

a chad indeed

[urban skiff]

Do arms put slam back on bars or is it a meme?

[green wharf]

if you are colossus yes

its disguting i know

[urban skiff]

why colossus?

I don't mind slam on bars

[green wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-lost-obiwan-lava-hot-gif-5009969

this is a archivement that i wanted

but its almost impossible to do without a group

[urban skiff]

I'm so close yet so far

[green wharf]

im just like that

there are some that are just nearly impossible

like, how can i do cut the blue wire one

if literally no one run bombs

[urban skiff]

play rogue and they do run bombs all the time

[green wharf]

wat

[urban skiff]

separate sentences

play a rogue so you can disarm after they turn around

but you have to get into a match where they use bombs, but when they do you can knock it out real quick

[green wharf]

but no one runs bombs

[urban skiff]

yes they do

Last IOC I ran 10 bombs in one go

and I wasn't alone

if you have hangar and they aren't defending court yard you may as well run bombs, and I'm not the first person to think of that

[green wharf]

bombs dont even do damage

i guess i can try to screw people trying to do the archiev

[urban skiff]

yes they do?

they're used on gate

how important is rend uptime for arms?

less important than deep wounds and mortal strike debuff?

[kind sentinel]

its less important but still a good button

[urban skiff]

what's my debuff priority then?

hamstring > ms > deep wounds (can they even be applied separately?) > rend

with MS taking priority over hamstring if my partner(s) have high or full uptime

[kind sentinel]

Ya, like if your choice is between letting rend fall off or hitting MS

You hit ms

• Col smash and storm also put deep wounds on them, so its less of a thing you gotta really think about imo

[green wharf]

as a thumbs up for me, i run tclap nodes, so you have slow and rend in the same GCD

no need for harmstring and rend at all

its more useful since everyone removes harmstring all the time, tclap is more consistent

[kind sentinel]

tclap is pretty good for blitz, but in shuffle the two extra talent points can be a lil more useful on other talents

[urban skiff]

the way i see it, it's freeing up 10+ rage to do other stuff with, to pick up the slow node

but having crushing force be a mandatory node is really annoying me for arms

[kind sentinel]

Heroic leap is another offender in that category, should be baseline + 1 talent for bounding stride

[urban skiff]

100%

we should have heroic leap baseline and then a choice node to swap heroic leap for dragon charge or a condemn like ability

I guess technically it's called executioner now

what purpose does troar serve for arms?

is it just an extra damage modifier? does it do big dam?

[slow solstice]

big dam

[urban skiff]

avatar colossus troar?

what order do I want to put it out?

[slow solstice]

rend roar ava cs

the initial damage from roar is not important

[urban skiff]

and bleed doesn't snapshot? got it

Purely hypothetical question

if you could always land full demolish on your target, would you play colossus over slayer?

[spice hornet]

They got rid of snapshotting

Long ago

It’s all dynamic

[urban skiff]

not for everybody

There's snapshotting exactly for the classes and specs where blizzard wants it

[kind sentinel]

w/ battlefield commander its also 5% damage from all sources, so buffs teams damage too

[urban skiff]

that's what I meant about asking if it's just another damage mod before doing big dam in avatar

[kind sentinel]

Ya thats how I treat it personally

droar -> then aviCS/Big MS sharpen

[slow solstice]

its only for one spec

[slow solstice]

its not about the damage modifier, its about the fact that you get one more global during avatar instead of using it on the initial damage of roar which is not important

[green wharf]

also also

damn bliz for changing the skill name

just because wwarriors cant have dragon related skills in DF

they didnt even change the darn icon

[urban skiff]

tbh, I want arms to get a savage roar like ability

i just want to shout more

as part of my rotation

[green wharf]

what? wanting cool skills? go play a paladin or something

jeez

[urban skiff]

@fierce elm thoughts on "Z press" to supplement regular ohp?

[fierce elm]

No idea tbh

my ohp was always DOGSHIT

Love me some banded stuff though

[urban skiff]

I could buy band pegs for my rack, it has slots for that

I'm not entirely sure what the point of Z-press is, but my intuition is telling me there's something worth looking into with it

[fierce elm]

probably

I just look at what people that are good at x lift are doing

[fickle forge]

Didn't you hit BW OHP?

[fierce elm]

wtf

I hit above BW ohp dont fuck with me

[fickle forge]

Thefuck

No you didn't?

[fierce elm]

I did hit 95 when I was 93 once

checkmate dumbass

My OHP fucking BLOWS

[fickle forge]

https://tenor.com/view/cap-doctor-meme-gif-23263243

[fierce elm]

its the WORST lift

out of them all

[fickle forge]

That's deadlift for me man

Hate that shit

[urban skiff]

I hit 97 last week, borked my shoulder even more after and now I can barely keep my arm above my head

[fierce elm]

kek

I just stopped doing OHP fuckthat shit

wack

[urban skiff]

I fucked it at work though

Opening a cardboard box somehow

Getting old fucking sucks

[rancid granite]

gotta work on that mobility better

change up your werkout plan

[urban skiff]

Not a mobility issue. It's a damage issue. Did a thing with a bad shoulder that made it worse.

[rancid granite]

fix it so its not bad anymore

maybe you're missing a lot of good exercises you should be doing to help it

[urban skiff]

I started physical therapy last tuesday so we're working on it

work pays for all that kind of stuff

[rancid granite]

youtube alone is endless with info too

stuff some therapists can miss etc

[urban skiff]

ok

but this guy is a professional and completely nailed exactly what little muscle I had torn through 10 minutes of talk despite saying it sounded really weird and not something he had encountered before

limited mobility after an injury without pain is apparently not normal

Turns out my infraspinatus is torn

so I'm gonna take the free physical therapist over wasting time on youtube and doing trial'n error 🙂

[rancid granite]

do both* on the side*

work on everything else surrounding it

well whole body since everything is connected

[urban skiff]

I already work everything

injuries happen despite your best efforts

There is no way to injury proof your body

[rancid granite]

yeah but im preachy these days after injuring myself

thats an elite warrior look ngl

[urban skiff]

missing the horde harness

unfortunately no such thing on alliance side

[exotic forge]

look at that beer gut

[urban skiff]

Wish I looked like that

tbh

[full quiver]

Just do hgh

No more injuries

[urban skiff]

true

but I think my doctor will cut my free supply of testosterone if I start doing roids illegally

[full quiver]

😂

I just started the bpc157 alternative for some tricep/distal bicep inflammation issues

[urban skiff]

fuck yeah

I should have levelled my kt warrior so much sooner

gonna be running folks over as a fucking grampa

[exotic forge]

get the mace from trading post lol

[hasty pulsar]

missing mace an earmuffs big time.. yikes

how can you post a xmas mog without the key components?? like wat is going on here??????????

wat in the world

[urban skiff]

earmuffs remove glasses

getting the mace eventually

game said I had 1k tenders left when i was shopping so was saving the rest

but currency tab says I have more

[hasty pulsar]

fair enough

[urban skiff]

a bit undecided on gloves, but kinda digging those. It's a bit john wick x grampa style

[hasty pulsar]

yeah I guess the muffs do remove the glasses

they nee to fix headslot transmog

[urban skiff]

they need to do a lot of things :S

let me choose more underwear

[hasty pulsar]

yes

[urban skiff]

WHO DARES INTERRUPT MY GARDENING TIME?

[lavish quest]

The police

[echo garden]

Hi what do you guys do with your extra conquest? i have 5k extra

[urban skiff]

conq boxes for gearing alts or experimenting with different builds

for example blew all my conq on full haste set for fury. Found out it didn't feel good. Used extra conq to swap to mastery

[echo garden]

gotcha gotcha ty

[urban skiff]

You can also spend it on transmogs. The non elite tier set looks great this time

Or experiment with 4 set

finally realized why the shaman elite set offends me so much!

One is LFR, other is elite pvp

[wheat jay]

left is elite?

colors are a bit more vibrant

[urban skiff]

Actually nop

Right is elite. You can tell from shoulder and hat glow

They so close it's ridiculous

[full quiver]

Its just a dumb set

[rancid granite]

why is ss so hard

[lavish quest]

Just win

Ez amirite

[rancid granite]

very right

my mental has been off all weekend i guess

[true tiger]

what did u guys buy with traders

[urban skiff]

cosmetics

[rancid granite]

the butt-stuffer 5000

[urban skiff]

ngl, i love the christmas stuff

[rancid granite]

the mount this month might be my favorite

yeah christmas x valentines month lol

[urban skiff]

if i have sudden death proc and MS is ready, which do i press first?

colossus

[rancid granite]

i get in all the procs prio so i can get stacks and everything

idk if thats best but need col stacks

[urban skiff]

so is that sudden death or ms?

ms is extra stack on crit

both ms and execute stacks it

I guess in theory the odds of getting another sudden death proc right after one are small, so ms > execute?

[rancid granite]

well why not execute if it pops up and you can use it early to help build stacks

[urban skiff]

because ms builds stacks too?

[full quiver]

Lol

[urban skiff]

idk, only just picked up arms again so maybe I'm missing an interaction

[rancid granite]

MS always up but if execute pops up might as well

[urban skiff]

I mean, true

but ms crits give 2 stacks instead of 1

according to tooltip they deal the same damage roughly

[rancid granite]

i should recraft my necklace to crit, in fact, ill do that now

solid

[urban skiff]

looking good

how you liking that stat split?

[rancid granite]

ill find out after a ss queue

[rancid granite]

wonder if i can get vers down mast up

have all 20/20/20/20

the 20% crit is legit though lol

[urban skiff]

I think going too low on vers is a problem

the kind you don't really notice but it might affect you still

[urban skiff]

how did you split gear to land that close to 20% first try?

[full quiver]

24 verse seems like a lot

I'm like 22 on ele

[rancid granite]

6pc, mastery wep, crafted rings/neck lol

[urban skiff]

6 pc?

[rancid granite]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/stormrage/Aatos

7pc

:)

[urban skiff]

severely confusing. Are we counting conq pieces?

[rancid granite]

7 warsculptor's pieces lol

[urban skiff]

ah

so skipping vers on pieces?

[rancid granite]

not intentionally i just saw some +crit on the set piece so i grabbed it cause it seemed cool

[urban skiff]

on arms I'm not afraid of crit

seems like there's many different ways to gear for arms, according to murlok

[rancid granite]

yeah i think i've seen it all lol

[urban skiff]

one is full haste

like ALL haste (+ tier pieces with weird stats)

excellent start lol

[kind sentinel]

I’m currently rocking 30% vers in PvP combat and I gotta say i feel very sturdy and strongk

[frank knoll]

What’s new

Does that Galachad regard or the racist Popo guy still post here