pvp

[mild thunder]

that's pretty cool

[sage raptor]

if it was shadow and undispellable, it wouldve been great but noooo

[mild thunder]

oh

dispellable

[sage raptor]

yeahhh

lol

bro

deaths due looked sick imo

the NF ability

[mild thunder]

warr got lucky that all 4 of our covs were relatively cool and strong

[sage raptor]

so true

[mild thunder]

also surprised that ww weapons of order never made it through

[sage raptor]

the ancient aftershock was my personal favorite

[mild thunder]

it was their only hope on ST dmg

[sage raptor]

I forgot about that

all they got was Bonedust right?

[mild thunder]

bonedust and the nf ability

[sage raptor]

that no one runs

I think

[mild thunder]

really happy the nf one stayed because it's the BEST visually designed ability wow has ever made

nah the nf one is meta for all content

m+, raid, pvp

[sage raptor]

oh yeah?

[mild thunder]

it's the lil blue thing they stomp on the ground during burst

faeline stomp

[sage raptor]

oh you know why I never see it? because I never see monks anymore

[mild thunder]

i am monk

[sage raptor]

a monk in the wild >.>

📸

[lucid walrus]

i'd enjoy it if either of the buttons involved felt like they were tuned well

[sage raptor]

damn I cant believe im getting nostalgic for shadowlands

[mild thunder]

TRUUU

[lucid walrus]

also weird that it's just "press it again" instead of buffing one or the other

[sage raptor]

like bro

[mild thunder]

they really need to work on making the cov abilities that stayed actually fit class fantasy

[lucid walrus]

kinda miss uprooting people's skulls from their spinal cords in one global w/ banner up

[mild thunder]

why tf does my big, burly green orc warrior throw a magic blue spear

[sage raptor]

Shadowlands was ass but here I am reminiscing about ancient aftershock and Swarming Mist

[mild thunder]

press op to reset ms
press ms to reset op
press op to reset ms
press ms to reset ms
press ip off gcd to reset op

it's soooooo boring

[lucid walrus]

mhm

[sage raptor]

remember when slappyhands pulled rogues froom stealth? lmaoo

good times

[lucid walrus]

killing stealthed RMs had to have been hysterical

[mild thunder]

i remember playing necro banner + kyrian feral kitty cleave with sickle

[sage raptor]

was wanting no borrowed power a monkey paw wish in the long run?

[mild thunder]

we could have all this fun stuff w/o borrowed power, the trees they implemented are just kinda shit for pvp

[sage raptor]

thats true

I know that blizz stated numerous times that the rotational abilities in the tree are temporary but I kinda cant wait for next expac lol

imagine if bloodthirst and raging blow werent in the tree.

I chose fury beecause that what my 60 alt was

[mild thunder]

the fury talent tree is probably the worst in the game imo

they took an already basic, bland spec

[sage raptor]

yeah its pretty rough

[mild thunder]

based around 2 buttons

and then split it into two main paths

so you can pick which 1 button to spam for your rotation

[sage raptor]

DH trees are better and fury has been around since the beginning

[mild thunder]

the fact that SMF is even in the tree taking up space FOR A DPS LOSS is so fucking retarded

ntm how unintuitive it is for new players

"oh, i get to spend two talent points to do more dmg with 1handers? surely that gives me more damage then!"

[sage raptor]

and they'd have every right to think that

BUT

NO

[mild thunder]

it's not even like frost or ww where you can argue there's a tradeoff to dw vs 2h for more burst or diff builds or whatever

it's just objectively bad

[sage raptor]

I cant believe (I can, its typical blizzard) blizzard would add a talent that makes you do less dps than let fury transmog 2h into 1h weapons like players really wanted

it was purely for aesthetic but blizz had to give it that special 50/50 of what you asked for charm

[mild thunder]

it is some next level retardation

also still mad that annihilator never got to be fun because of the stupid reckless abandon rework

[sage raptor]

I honestly feel bad for the more casual player in terms of fun

because they see all these people ask for cool shit and they dont know much so they go "yeah thats cool" and then boom

SMF

[mild thunder]

riot mmo will save us dw

[sage raptor]

[mild thunder]

im excited for corepunk, if it ever comes out

that game looks dope

[sage raptor]

is that what its called?

all I know is riot is making an mmo

[mild thunder]

nah corepunk is a top-down moba-style mmo being developed by a ukrainian studio

but production got halted because of a certain foreign event

[sage raptor]

ah yes

(((event)))

but thats a bummer

[mild thunder]

yea fr

[sage raptor]

what made corepunk special?

was it the theme?

[mild thunder]

looked surprisingly polished for an indie mmo, had some really cool, unique ideas around an open-world fog of war, general leveling and pve looked decently challenging, had a proper emphasis on pvp, class design looked cool

[sage raptor]

emphasis on pvp

imagine

💀

[sage raptor]

do we know what some of their classes are like?

I want to play a pirate that doesnt involve Roll the Bones and Slice and Dice

[mild thunder]

it's more based on picking champions instead of classes, but there was already quite a few

https://corepunk.com/en/heroes/feed/all

[sage raptor]

im gonna look it up

oh ty

[mild thunder]

this is the official site

🙂

[sage raptor]

my first thought immediately was "someone loves overwatch and orcs"

lol

[mild thunder]

yea it's got very... recognisable looking orcs xD

[sage raptor]

whoa mama

count me in

[mild thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/cooming-coom-aaaaaaa-im-gonna-coom-gif-25545869

[sage raptor]

late night thoughts with popo

this is pretty cool

[mild thunder]

yea it's the one confirmed mmo that i think looks pretty cool so far

ashes is still very meh imo

[sage raptor]

bro what? we dont even know if Riot mmo will drop? :(

[mild thunder]

tbf i think that's just a PR just-in-case kinda thing

riot is one of the few companies developing an mmo that actually has the funding to push through development and production

[sage raptor]

really?

I cant wait then

[mild thunder]

dune mmo is supposedly in development too

but i have a feeling that'll never release

[sage raptor]

shocker

idk how I feel about that one tbh

how do you make an mmo in the dune universe?

[mild thunder]

yea dune just doesnt really suit games

it's a political story, not really action-focused

this might also be a hot-take, but im sick of mmo's trying to go for a "realistic" art-style... it never runs well, always feels super unpolished, usually has stupid system requirements and doesnt even end up looking better than stuff with a more stylised aesthetic like wow or corepunk

[sage raptor]

I completely agree

give me an mmo that stands out

I have a hot take

[mild thunder]

you cant tell me this guy doesnt look badass af even though it's "cartoonish"

[sage raptor]

I think activision should fund engineers to build a new engine for WoW and stop releasing open world content until it is finished.

[mild thunder]

based

[sage raptor]

I've thought long and hard (lol) about it and I think I'll stick to my guns.

we should not be having this issue in 2023 the year of our lord

it will be a long process but I am a patient person

[mild thunder]

i would honestly just be in favour of wow 2

make a warcraft 4 to give a linear conclusion to the story and lead into the next

then drop wow 2

wow story and world and everything is so epicly boring

[sage raptor]

if we had wow 2, the story would be written by the same guy but I get what you mean.

WoW also has a legacy that I doubt blizz would abandon

[mild thunder]

nahhh they'd have to bring back chris metzen

[sage raptor]

didnt he already come back?

[mild thunder]

yea i think so, but not sure if he's a creative exec or what

[sage raptor]

wasnt he the voice of thrall at one point?

[mild thunder]

yep

and basically the grandfather of the wow universe

if i were him, i'd be pissed at how it is now

[sage raptor]

thats true

I would be too

[mild thunder]

it used to be a really cool, gritty, over-the-top dark fantasy like warhammer

[sage raptor]

Arthas' ending wouldve been so much cooler

[sage raptor]

its wayyy to cutesy now

[glad moon]

anyone tryd Single minded fury?

[sage raptor]

garbage

dont even spit in its direction

[mild thunder]

cutesy and safe and pg and boring

wow is played by boomers

but somehow the story feels made for kids

[sage raptor]

like, the game has a rating for a reason

rip slut mogs btw

my gf was pissed about there not being any lately

[mild thunder]

rip having dark, cool raid sets like karazhan and naxxramas

[sage raptor]

ugh so true

[mild thunder]

now you get generic volcano raid accompanied by chromie talking in a super fucking annoying high-pitch voice

[sage raptor]

I hope and pray next tier wont be dragon themed

but alas, our cries fall upon deaf ears

[mild thunder]

doubt

tbf the wow art team still kicks ass with most things they do

just the general aesthetic is getting worn thin

[sage raptor]

yeah theres no chance it wont be dragon themed

I agree

bro

the art team carries

[sage raptor]

art/music

[mild thunder]

i feel like art teams across most games are just overpowered these days

[sage raptor]

heres some Popo lore

WoW is a big part of why I got into music

[mild thunder]

what sorta music do you do?

[sage raptor]

I was 5 when I made my first undead and that eerier spooky music hit me like a train

[mild thunder]

my lore is that wow is the reason i could read so well as a kid... had to start reading quest text at like 6 years old, ended up finishing the hobbit and lotr trilogy before i started primary school

[sage raptor]

All sorts. From Orchestral pieces to music like Metal or w/e

one sec

https://www.audioimperia.com/products/nucleus this right here is like my second bible

[mild thunder]

i have no clue what im looking at, but it looks cool

[sage raptor]

ohh yeah

I suppose you'd need some context lol

[mild thunder]

i have negative musical talent and/or knowledge

[sage raptor]

if you have time, I can show you a video of what it is from a guy on youtube

its honestly really inuitive and cool

[mild thunder]

yea send the video through

[sage raptor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqCNM-igQy8

[mild thunder]

that's pretty cool

that guy looks exactly like the kinda person i would expect to make a video like this

[sage raptor]

ive never heard anyone say that but thats pretty accurate

but yeah I always had a pipe dream of working at blizzard making music

[mild thunder]

yea working in any sort of creative role at a gaming company would be a sick job

i wanted to get into writing when i was younger, but i gave up on that

[sage raptor]

why?

[mild thunder]

interests shifted ig, and if i wanted to pursue any sort of creative role in a gaming company id probably have to leave aus

[sage raptor]

ahh yeah people grow out of things or w/e

youd probably be better than what wow has now lol

[mild thunder]

low bar

[lucid walrus]

writing seems like it'd be really annoying as a career

[sage raptor]

me personally, I wouldve had arthas deal the killing blow into the jailer

though if it were up to me, it never wouldve went that route

[mild thunder]

me personally, i wouldve never had the jailer exist

[sage raptor]

yeah same

I would use arthas as a catalyst to bring the horde and alliance together

[fresh valve]

yall got Grinding gear games

[mild thunder]

if i were hired on the wow writing team, i honestly dont even know where i could begin to try and fix this mess

[sage raptor]

idek where we are at in the story, its been so boring

at least SL was so bad it was interesting in a fucked up way

[mild thunder]

even when the writers do try and do kinda dark, challenging stuff it gets removed from the game because people cried about it

like the alexstrasza, timeline stuff

[lucid walrus]

always fascinates me how many leads the writers burn for no reason

see: azshara, the winter queen and by extension elune, eonar, etc etc

the drust rattle me so bad in terms of how they were handled

[fresh valve]

that shit was kinda rarted tbh

[mild thunder]

always makes me laugh how wowhead writers/wow fans in general try to cope and draw these intricate lines between all the random events in wow lore as though the writers are some giga-brained tolkien prodigies creating an elaborate plot that rivals game of thrones

bruh, they're retconning things every patch 💀

[mild thunder]

there wasnt really much wrong with it from a writers' standpoint - it was a controversial moment in wow lore that they got to re-explore and provide some challenging story moments about the ends justifying the means, laws of non-interference etc.

[sage raptor]

Danusers love-child btw

[mild thunder]

was it deep or groundbreaking? not really, but it was a nice breakaway from the absurd lightheartedness and soft nature of wow lore

[fresh valve]

revisiting alexstraza getting gangbanged is pointless lol

forced grimdark moments are always retarded

[mild thunder]

pointless insofar as all narrative exploration in wow is pointless, sure

but alexstrasza is a major player of this xpac, and it's a pretty significant part of her development as a character, so yea it's definitely relevant if they want to provide some character depth

[sage raptor]

whats the big threat in DF?

[mild thunder]

the crumbling of my sanity

[sage raptor]

LMAO

so true bestie

[mild thunder]

loss of subscribers

the real villain of wow

[sage raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/group-text-who-are-you-people-gif-5620388

[fresh valve]

I dont think she needs more development lol

[mild thunder]

that's cool that you think that, but they are developing her further as a major figure in dragonflight lore

so you thinking that doesnt really matter lol

[sage raptor]

when characters dont get development, they look like the jailer

minus the nipples

rip nipple man

[fresh valve]

they only thing that is worth expanding on when it comes to the dragons is the whole shit with the bronze

[mild thunder]

you mean grey thanos?

[sage raptor]

lol yeah

bro litterally gathered the WoW version of infinity stones

to do the WoW version of the snap, to do the WoW version of remake reality

he shouldve won

[mild thunder]

"villain has to collect all the pieces of the ancient artifact in order to destroy the universe" has gotta be the most overdone, uninteresting, exorbitantly dull trope ever written

[sage raptor]

when are we going to lose? I think that would make the story more interesting

like

bruh

thats like saying the good guy won every war

[mild thunder]

that's why the old gods used to be cool

[sage raptor]

EVERY war?

[mild thunder]

because they literally couldnt be killed

[sage raptor]

ngl

I miss the Nzoth story

[mild thunder]

they never shouldve moved past the old gods

[sage raptor]

before we fought him and somehow won

[mild thunder]

they were the ultimate endgame of wow lore

[sage raptor]

I agree

now here I am farming mogs in the afterlife

[fresh valve]

Bring back demons

demons r cool

[sage raptor]

yeah

[mild thunder]

cant really do any more demon xpacs

we've already defeated sargeras

[sage raptor]

see? thats dumb

[mild thunder]

if they wanna do demons now it has to be the real villain behind sargeras

[fresh valve]

bro the lore literally says "demons transcend all realities"

[mild thunder]

do you mean dreadlords?

[fresh valve]

anything from the twisting nether

[mild thunder]

arent the "demons" in wow basically just aliens gathered from hundreds of planets by the burning legion

[sage raptor]

I love how they killed off the one interesting character in SL

[sage raptor]

pm

thats the cliffnotes

[fresh valve]

some are some just come from the nether

[mild thunder]

i want another troll xpac

trolls are cool

tauren xpac would be cool too

[sage raptor]

yeah

also

[fresh valve]

zandalari trolls are cool

all the other ones are living L's

[mild thunder]

da darkspear neva die

[sage raptor]

theres some data floating around that 10.2 is a pirate themed patch

[lyric violet]

👀

[sage raptor]

or heavy with pirate themes

[mild thunder]

okay

that would be cool

but

[lyric violet]

yahar?

[sage raptor]

yahar matey!

[mild thunder]

how do we go from killing THE JAILER, one of the fundamental creatures of the universe and keepers of the realms of the dead

to uhhh

battling pirates?

[sage raptor]

idk but its a nice change of pace

[lyric violet]

honestly im down for more low fantasy

[fresh valve]

Jailer aint shit tbh

[lyric violet]

send me to go kill some quilboars

im here for it

[sage raptor]

according to the lore, WE didnt do shit

[lyric violet]

pirates im down

[mild thunder]

based + true + real

gnoll and kobold xpac when

[lyric violet]

i just want them to re-cata the old world

[mild thunder]

i want them to re-cata my brain

[lyric violet]

bring eastern kingdoms+kalimdor to 2023

lmaooo

[sage raptor]

have yall seen the new assets? They look fire af

[mild thunder]

nope

[lyric violet]

https://tenor.com/view/asmongold-asmonmald-asmonbald-twitch-5head-gif-19341175

[sage raptor]

I stg it looks like theyre going to re-cata eventually

[mild thunder]

this would be great but they actually have to use the old world

who even remembers what we're fighting for lmao

[lyric violet]

yea

whole expac in old world again

[mild thunder]

when was the last time we spent time in eastern kingdoms + kalimdor

yknow

our homes we fight for

[sage raptor]

bfa

sometimes

[lyric violet]

so like

[mild thunder]

bfa didnt exist

[lyric violet]

5 years ago

[mild thunder]

it was a fever dream

[lyric violet]

lmao

bfa mighta been actually a fever dream

nzoth mighta just tricked our ass

[sage raptor]

nuking the big tree was based tbh

[sage raptor]

yeah thats what a lot of people are hoping for

[fresh valve]

nyalotha couldve been a whole xpac

[sage raptor]

that and maybe when we visited nyalotha in the leveling campaign, we fucked up the timeline

[mild thunder]

but yea an old-world rebuild defs needs to happen... show some global change, expansion of settlements, add some content to it, give players a better connection to the planet they're supposed to live on

[sage raptor]

the dragonriding event was a good starting place

[mild thunder]

and downsize the fucking lore

i just want to be an everyday joe-schmo picking up a sword to defend his kingdom

that's peak warrior class fantasy

[sage raptor]

a random block of glitter floating around

its a perfect square too

[lyric violet]

Yea id be down for more low fantasy like i said

More dnd style stuff

[fresh valve]

dnd isnt really low fantasy tbh

[sage raptor]

I want to be a pirate again

[lyric violet]

Like bandits stole from these people go fuck em up

[fresh valve]

depends on the setting tho

[lyric violet]

depends on your dm right?

[sage raptor]

I want to be a pirate without Roll the Bones and Slice and Dice

[fresh valve]

ya that too

[mild thunder]

the most high fantasy i wanna go is becoming broxigar 2.0

the most chad gigachad of all the wow chads

[fresh valve]

I was fine with the robots in shadowlands

dnd's got a whole ass robot planet

[sage raptor]

Yes the robots looked out of place which was fitting

The titans being robots? Not so much

Does that mean we are robots too?

[mild thunder]

we are, no?

we were just cursed by the old gods

[fresh valve]

Denathrius being a robot is retarded tho tbh

the whole first ones shit is dumb

limits the scope of the story

[wheat jay]

We got small hand drakes to fix thr story tho

Feels good to have a villain that goes "dont underestimate them, we need to prepare first"

[mild thunder]

now all we need is a coherent goal

[sage raptor]

I wish they didn't look like twinks

[mild thunder]

who is fyrakk and what does he want

[sage raptor]

I stg it feels like we went to a gay bar and started fucking shit up lol

[wheat jay]

Noone

Its iridikron that's the boss

Man's got deals with everything

[fresh valve]

we need more villains like garithos from wc3

[mild thunder]

so boring i didnt even know

[fresh valve]

iridikrons ok

thats about it

[wheat jay]

Iridikron is a chad

So is fyrakk

[fresh valve]

pretty bland villain-wise but cool design-wise

[wheat jay]

Fyrakk basically new deathwing but still semi-sane

Iridikron is having actual plans unlike jailer

And he's got deals with infinites, void, and fuck knows what else

[fresh valve]

what if its a retarded plan tho lol

[sage raptor]

we will win regardless so it doesnt matter

[scarlet flame]

isnt that the best part, knowing that whatever happens we win anyway

[sage raptor]

I see a lot of lore video that go "what is the end goal :O" and im like bruh

has it ever mattered? lol

[scarlet flame]

i just kinda wish they could bring back the investment into the story

rn i dont give a shit about any character other than the same aspects, all the new characters and enemies are boring

[lucid walrus]

cosmology is cool in fantasy but not for MMOs

i loved the mapping of the universe into diff orders/elements/etc as well as the separation of them into rule under titans or old gods or whatever

but you can’t just shit out these new gods that are a step ahead of your established >20yo cast and go “oh sorry these guys are older and more powerfuler”

wow’s stakes should never have been raised past the likes of the first 3 or so xpacs

[mild thunder]

this

[scarlet flame]

its really annoying how they did that too

[mild thunder]

it just opened the floodgates to an endless loop of "actually these are the ones behind it all"

[scarlet flame]

they basically just said these guys are more powerful than anything you've seen for 20 years

with no build up, no backstory for expansions like titans and old gods and legion bosses

[mild thunder]

even the motherfucking jailer hinted that he's just working for someone else

[scarlet flame]

like wtf was that

how cheap of an end boss was that

entire expansion was just a cliff hanger what the fuck

and they didn't even expand on it for the next one they just left it

[lucid walrus]

has no one at the office considered that these end-of-raid cinematics completely bomb because they show us nothing, tell us nothing and do nothing

[scarlet flame]

"those guys that are the most powerful you've ever seen weren't strong enough for these guys who no one has ever heard of so ill kill everyone"

[mild thunder]

and now they're tryna do some goofy actually the titans are bad shit with DF

[scarlet flame]

even tho for literally 20 years the titans have been the good guys

with LITERALLY nothing pointing towards something different

[lucid walrus]

i’m curious if or how the titans will be flipped on their heads

[mild thunder]

i hope they abandon it before the pull the final cord

[lucid walrus]

they’re the least sinister-looking cosmic force ever

[mild thunder]

it'll just be cringe af

[lucid walrus]

the pantheon rather

[mild thunder]

we've literally already had an evil titan

his name was sargeras

[lucid walrus]

ayup

[mild thunder]

we dont need the rest of them to be evil too

[scarlet flame]

yeah and he was a huge end boss with years and years of lore and build up

not just slapped into the game randomly

[lucid walrus]

“hey why’d he get corrupted?”
— ‘he saw something in space and got scared’

this was never a good plotline

[mild thunder]

i thought the old gods corrupted him

but i might be remembering wrong

[scarlet flame]

at least sargeras had thousands of years of killing demons to fuck with him

[lucid walrus]

i’m reducing it severely

it was old god corruption iirc

[scarlet flame]

sargeras got fucked cause he killed demons forever and there was never and end because of the twisting nether

[mild thunder]

TL;DR old gods have always been and should always be the endgame warcraft villain

[scarlet flame]

old gods were bitches to titans

[lucid walrus]

right?

[scarlet flame]

it wasn't old gods it was twisting nether/void lords

[mild thunder]

SHUT THE FUCK UP

[scarlet flame]

huge depression sergeras

[mild thunder]

they dont even sound good

[lucid walrus]

you’re telling me an imp can get smoked 20x over, get tossed in the twisting nether, crawl out, and annoy people ad infinitum but c’thun can’t come back

[mild thunder]

"void lord"

ooooooh

[scarlet flame]

yes

demons literally never die unless they are killed in the twisting nether

[lucid walrus]

voidlord sounds like a 10yo’s first spriest

[scarlet flame]

void lords shot out millions of old gods to corrupt planet titan babies like azeroth

[lucid walrus]

ik it’s just goofy

[mild thunder]

old gods are cool because they have a wealth of lovecraftian lore to always fall back on

it's perfect

[scarlet flame]

i mean i dont like lovecraftian stuff in general but i think old gods are kinda cool

[lucid walrus]

cosmic horror used to bore the fuck out of me and kind of still does

[mild thunder]

if it's done properly, cosmic horror stuff is the perfect base for fantasy worldbuilding

it's the foundation of wow, it's the foundation of GoT, it's the foundation of DS

conan

[fresh valve]

they need to bring back race wars in the story

they should free Odyn and have him lead dragon genocide

[mild thunder]

let me genocide some orcs ong

[wheat jay]

Genociding trolls was fun in bfa

And humans

[mild thunder]

you know what

gnomes need some genocide

gnome lives do not matter

[whole quartz]

real

[wheat jay]

Real

Btw galachad

Dh or warr for next season?

Im tempted to do dh now that im not limited by Kargish's no zug zug policy

[mild thunder]

dh probs more fun no lie

but ww is cooler than both

[whole quartz]

zugzug is the fun part tho

[wheat jay]

I don't rly like monk

[wheat jay]

Nah, outplaying is the big thing

Man just remembered, yesterday I had a game where we fucking styled on rdruid/survi

As hpal/survi

Game was like 2min long

We messed their opener so hard

I ran into freezing trap, and he scattered me cuz he wanted to stop my go lol

[mild thunder]

ww has great outplay potential

more than warr or dh

[wheat jay]

Then we got cc going and we slapped so much dmg he turtled instantly lol

[wheat jay]

Ye but ww is gae

[mild thunder]

the most outplay dh has is baiting people off ledges and double jumping back up

which tbf is insanely funny every goddamn time

sub has a ton of outplay potential

[wheat jay]

I mean you dont need MUCH to outplay

You need dmg and good timing

Or baiting

[mild thunder]

depends on what you mean by "outplaying"

[whole quartz]

is outplay and zugzug mutually exclusive? lol

[mild thunder]

ww outplays dont really have anything to do with dmg, it's more RoP shenanigans, baiting stuff with transcendence, FoFing cc, getting good use of your mobility etc.

[wheat jay]

For arms its more of stopping enemy goes

Survi is the same but also setting up some shit

Dh is just dmg

Which might be fun to do after 2 expansions of survi

[mild thunder]

ww can also stop a lot of goes with RoP, FoF, Para, port

idk why you dont think ww has a lot of outplay potential

not as much as sv, sure, but more than arms or pretty much any other melee except rogue and maybe feral

[wheat jay]

Ye but i just don't like ww

Which is ironic because i Play monk like classes in every game xD

[mild thunder]

idk, i think ww is the most fun spec in the game

obviously subjective

but at the same time, you're objectively wrong for disliking my favourite spec

[wheat jay]

I just dont see the appeal of ww

Can't see anything unique about it

[mild thunder]

bruhhhhh

it has one of the most unique kits in the game

[wheat jay]

I know

I just dont feel it

[mild thunder]

unconventional combo point system where you spend points dynamically rather than linear build > spend
intraconnected kit that encourages both planned and reactive gameplay

the only issue i have with the spec is how much power is baked into ToD in pve

[elfin surge]

oh man the monks got galachad too

i broke free

[mild thunder]

tbf ive played ww on-and-off since mop

the chuck norris commercials got to me as a kid

[wheat jay]

Every time i tried monk i got bored

And i'm a kung fu dude myself

[mild thunder]

yea fair enough

have you tried feral?

[wheat jay]

Played it a lot ages ago

[elfin surge]

play warrior only warrior

[wheat jay]

Mud

With you id play survi

[mild thunder]

bro is a main

[wheat jay]

But you're too far from better region

[elfin surge]

arms is so bad

[wheat jay]

Sorry Habibi

[mild thunder]

real

[elfin surge]

i qd tsg yesterday

mw fury unh feels... playable?

[wheat jay]

Petkick boosting your sorry ass again?

Play with augmentation

[elfin surge]

wasnt with petkick

[mild thunder]

pseudo-tank comp

ew

[elfin surge]

healer was 0cr so went through placements

[mild thunder]

mud is the kinda guy to play brewmaster/warr/fistweaver tho

[elfin surge]

two losses were me not walling

[mild thunder]

idk man i could never play fury for a whole season

would rather be unalived

[elfin surge]

arms feels so bad to play

been playing it a bit recently

just... not good and not fun

rn

[mild thunder]

arms needs a real defensive into casters

intervene and dbs are soooo bad into caster metas

[elfin surge]

i mean

[wheat jay]

Dbs is good

So is reflecy

[elfin surge]

i just want ms to hit hard

arms damage is all from having full uptime

with full uptime your damage is okay

[mild thunder]

a flat 30% wall is nothing to write home about

[elfin surge]

but warbreaker isnt a threat anymore

no big ms to follow or sks

[wheat jay]

Better than my 40% on 3min cd

And lasts 6s ;__;

[mild thunder]

you have turtle toooooo tho

[wheat jay]

Turtle is ass tho

Not even full immunity

Dog defensive

[mild thunder]

better than reflect getting gimped by pets

[mild thunder]

dw, they'll buff slam

[wheat jay]

I still think warr should go back to legion playstyle

And warbreaker as separate ability again

[elfin surge]

i want to see how arms is if they unnerf every ms modifier

i want spear

i want big ms

fuck roar fuck bleeds

[mild thunder]

spear is boring

[elfin surge]

so is roar

[mild thunder]

it just feels bad on a 90sec CD

people always have a major defensive for it

[elfin surge]

spear on a 45s cd would be ideal

maybe an honor talent?

idk

[mild thunder]

id rather 4sec spear on 45sec CD

[elfin surge]

unnerf it tho

make it do damage

and give me crit

[mild thunder]

or

replace it with banner

[elfin surge]

[mild thunder]

necrochads rise up

garrosh would be a necrolord

[wheat jay]

You want utility or dmg

Cuz sounds to me like you just want to be op again

[mild thunder]

yes

[elfin surge]

yes

[wheat jay]

Fair enough

I'll still prolly roll dh

Find me an augmentation

Or something else

And zug zug my way to glad hopefully

[round flax]

whats the best gear to craft for pvp? spore cloak and boots?

or dbl shadowflame?

[elfin surge]

yes

[slate root]

Not really a caster meta: dh, pally, subrog, udk, gdruid, ww, mm are all good
Warrior just has a bad kit and needs a rework, feral and warrior are both easy targets for any caster.

[wheat jay]

Isn't mm dogshit?

Noone plays it lol

[slate root]

marksman? It's a hard mage counter, yes people play it

aimed shot + sniper shot + rapid fire is free win on mage: can't silence any of it

[mild thunder]

dh, pala, sub and udk are all good because they can play into casters

[slate root]

dh throws glaives + slows, pally spams judgment, sub jumps behind you, and udk grabs and death coils--gdruid just straight casts moonfire
All have some form of self-healing, but aside from rogue these are semi-ranged
Warrior isn't semi-ranged, it's pure melee is its problem.
Meta isn't casters, meta is the melee are basically casters.

[mild thunder]

being able to use one slow from range doesnt make you "basically a caster"

the only melee that has egregious range is ret

other than that, all you really said was that they're good because they can play well into casters

[slate root]

dh flies into the air and spams warglaives, it's not one slow

[mild thunder]

most dhs are not taking fly from above in arenas

[slate root]

I main 2's, they do into mage yes

[lean burrow]

2s main

[mild thunder]

2s main

[slate root]

3's are ass rn because of hpal

[mild thunder]

2s never has a real meta

idk why you'd talk about it

[slate root]

warrior is garbo in all rn--I play fury, fire, rdruid

[opal acorn]

So with hpala enemy can't die against melee?

Was playing against a dh yesterday and felt like it was bop, evade, bop, evade

[slate root]

hpals just can't die since rework tuesday, all you can do is cc them and try to catch one of the dps make a mistake

[elfin surge]

no, just warrior.

[lyric violet]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-caveman-gif-15358844

[mild thunder]

skill issue

bro losing because he cant play necro banner

[wheat jay]

Mud getting reality checked

[mild thunder]

tbh @elfin surge was never as good as the real great warriors like Bajheera, Magnusz and Dekel

he was just a fotm SL gladiator that got r1 in unchained

[wheat jay]

As did every warrior

[mild thunder]

not me

i wish i didnt quit unchained after 50 games

[elfin surge]

shut up

[spice hornet]

Warrior is so trash can’t kill shit dam low, hpal everywhere cucking you

[sharp meteor]

How I have missed having each colossus smash instantly bopped.

[spice hornet]

I called out weeks ago that I was dreading the hpal rework going live because it was going to make arms even more miserable to play due to double boos

Bops

Especially when you get an hpal/ret lobby

We really need enduring blow in place of unhinged

Enduring blow was just fine all of shadowlands

[elfin surge]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/warrior-feels-bad/1633935

content

@spice hornet @mild thunder @sharp meteor

i speak the truth nobody dares to say

[sharp meteor]

Warrior definitely doesn't feel good right now.

[spice hornet]

I’ve made posts there before

About it

Too many low rated players shitpost the topic so nobody cares

“On my warlock at 1400 in shuffle a warrior was training me into the dirt and there was nothing I could do. Therefore, warrior is fine”

@elfin surge this post from a shadow priest was frying me so fucking hard

[elfin surge]

LMAO

[spice hornet]

Guess he’s just gonna ignore df season 1 where warrior was better than it was now and still had like a 3200ish r1 shuffle cutoff while the other actual good shuffle specs had 3500+. Fury had 2900 cutoff lmfao. Spec is a joke rn

[wet scarab]

does anyone have these weird thing where enemy default arena frames are really tiny? I can't seem to find a way to resize them

[slate root]

Slaughtering strikes just gets washed off them like butter

[wheat jay]

@elfin surge get rekt noob lol

[slate root]

[wheat jay]

Maybe if you didnt steal Qwik's dreadnaught pieces you wouldn't be getting nerfs

[slate root]

MUD single-handedly fucked warrior with one-shot clips

[spice hornet]

That paladin is a massive retard

[wheat jay]

Hes not wrong

[elfin surge]

ppl that argue warrior is fine

dont play war

or havent qd this week

[spice hornet]

It’s a dumb take though. A lot of clips happened in early/mid shadowlands

[sharp meteor]

From....Unchained?

[restive matrix]

MUD pls play other classes and make oneshot clips

[slate root]

All we need is a one shot clip from a hpally

that'll show em

[sharp meteor]

There's some guy that has been hitting people with a 300k recompense judge since last season.

[river walrus]

Unpopular opinion: SL S1 and S2 one shot play style was the best

[sharp meteor]

That's not really an unpopular opinion.

[wheat jay]

was best for zugzug shit

and was also good for stuff that required setup

all they needed to do was nerf some outliers

like ww monk onesot

ret oneshot

warr oneshot

and so on

[river walrus]

Nah I loved it, I like fast paced games, insta burst

[lucid walrus]

bring back SL s1 with exclusively 2s warrior mirrors and hunter matches

delete classes that do magic damage. world of war

wait nvm lock with sacrolash snare existed

do not bring that season back

[north thicket]

Man, what else do you expect with these class design devs? I am quite surprised they haven't been fired yet - all of them.
Especially Brian Holinka if we speak about pvp. That's the dude who designed the great Ashran and battlefronts, right? Wow...

It's a mistery why the executive team is happy with these guys bleeding them off subs because of controversial or simply incompetent decisions... It's that simple. It really is, when you see devs track record.
They are pushing their rotational meta agenda nwoadays - make players reroll each season, try evoker and shits - because they think it keeps the game fresh. It's really so bad for the game.

Just looking at the very recent examples. The shitshow with the Ret rework and balancing. The shitshow with precognition. The shitshow with mmr this season. (myself just an observer these days, correct me if I am wrong)
I am not an expert in pvp nowadays but I can give more examples - s1 seasonal affix in pugs. Which was such an obvious mistake to go live that days after the senior dungeon dev said 'it's fine, players are happy according our surveys' they changed it because he was either delusional or lying.

[wheat jay]

i will explain it all to you

and why it is happening to pvp

it is beacuse

pvp

is

a

okay, prepare for it

MINIGAME

its a free nice transmog game mode

it is sad, it is bad, it used to be great, but it is not anymore

[north thicket]

The same thing is happening in M+. And it's not exactly mini-game in terms of participation rate.

[wheat jay]

m+ is living well

people do +20s easily, assuming theyre not bad

others push

participation is amazing

[north thicket]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-state-of-mythic-pugging/1631969

It's really bad if you aren't a meta class nowadays

Especially if you are a warrior with decent damage but a very limited utility that matters

[wheat jay]

you can still do +20s and higher as warrior

with pugs

[north thicket]

Indeed, just have the patience to wait 1-2 hours in the LFG queue

[wheat jay]

lmao

that's copium

you need to wait if you have ZERO rio, true

but if you have any, then its eaasy invite

20+

hm ok nevermind

sth is wrong with the chart

cant see augmentation here

ok

this is 10.1.5

previous one was 10.1

that's +25 and up

this is +20 and up

so warrior is still popular there

just gotta not be a monkey, a muppet, an absolute tool, and get some rio and time some keys

[north thicket]

Yeah, have the rio, have ilev and the patience to wait 1-2 hours for a nice group to feel sorry for you and invite you 🙂

[wheat jay]

1-2h is if you have 0 rio and have ilvl xD

Bro do you even do keys to say such bullshit?

[north thicket]

Yes, I do. And it's not bullshit, and it's not subjective to my personal experience.

Just look around in the LFG queue how many groups are actually searching for warrior instead of SP/Aug

[wheat jay]

Of course everyone is searching for sp/aug, its meta

[north thicket]

Why of course man

[wheat jay]

Doesnt mean you cant find groups as any other class lol

[north thicket]

Why is that normal

[wheat jay]

Because its meta

[north thicket]

To have SP and Aug in every team

[wheat jay]

If you want to push keys, and for some+20 is pushing, they want meta

Meta usually equals smooth run

[north thicket]

I guess you are fine with the meta stuff

I am not fan of metas

It's bad for the game

both in pve and pvp

[wheat jay]

If you had a choice between arms or augmentation for a +22 key

What would you take?

Well, of course metas are bad for the game, because it hurts the balance

Can't balance wow perfectly

So sadly meta is unavoidable

[north thicket]

Yeah, sure, you can't do it perfectly but you can do it better

And what I am saying

[swift folio]

if there are people looking for spirest and aug for a 20 you dont want to be in there anyway

[wheat jay]

Well, before augmentation it was very balanced

[north thicket]

Is that not only devs aren't balancing well

But they are pushing metas intentionally

[wheat jay]

So now we gotta wait for changes to current meta that's out of control lol

Mages already getting nerfs

[swift folio]

how did people not expect aug and amge to be broken ?

[wheat jay]

Soon sp and aug will probably get nerfs too

[swift folio]

they were clear about .5 patches to experiment

[wheat jay]

Yep

[north thicket]

These shouldn't happen

[swift folio]

look at ret reworks

[wheat jay]

And blizz is fine with changing meta

[north thicket]

If the devs do their job

Exactly, ret reworks

Wow

[wheat jay]

Because it keeps tryhards engaged in the game, they roll new characters and play more

Even casuals roll meta to have fun

[north thicket]

But that's bad for the game

[wheat jay]

Bad for the balance of the gamee

[north thicket]

Many people are simply leaving the game

[swift folio]

this is only an issue if you are trying to get top ranks in io for a 20 or now 16 for weekly thats not an issue

[north thicket]

Because they are tired of this bullshit

[swift folio]

like i said if there are people doing 20 and below and asking for meta you dont want to be in that group anyway

[wheat jay]

True

[north thicket]

Like I said, I simply want to play and have fun

[wheat jay]

Unless you're doing +27 or sth then you can play whatever lol

[north thicket]

Yes, I can but the 22+ groups that you mentioned above

will pick the evo/mage/sp

[wheat jay]

Of course they will

I would too lol

[north thicket]

So I wouldn't play

[swift folio]

do your own key ?

[north thicket]

I would wait in the queue

[wheat jay]

Make friends

Do your own key

Get higher Rio

[north thicket]

My key got broken in an easily timed 20+ yesterday because the healer and the tank went in arguing

But that's not the point

[wheat jay]

Getting stuff in wow is not a sprint, its a marathon

[north thicket]

The point is

That the game should strive for balance

and everybody plays whatever class he/she wants

[wheat jay]

And prior to this patch it was balanced very well

[lucid walrus]

gaming just has minmax culture ingrained into it

[wheat jay]

This patch is getting changes every week

Mage getting HUGE nerfs

[lucid walrus]

especially in the RPG genre. it’s borderline inseparable

[wheat jay]

Then other classes will follow

[north thicket]

Yes, you are right that minmax is ingrained

[lucid walrus]

streamers and guide sites killed amateur theorycrafting

[north thicket]

That's why the devs should do a better job at balancing

and not releasing broken stupid stuff

[wheat jay]

That's fun for people

[lucid walrus]

won’t matter. people will take the spec that does 0.5% damage

[wheat jay]

That too

[lucid walrus]

or, in this case, is on a tier list they saw some streamer makw

[lucid walrus]

0.5% more* damage

[north thicket]

It would matter for the health of the game

[wheat jay]

Wouldn't really lol

[lucid walrus]

what does “health of the game” look like to you?

[north thicket]

A healthy game is a one that does not lose many many players within 1-2 months of a large patch

[lucid walrus]

that’s just how patch cycles work now

[north thicket]

Problem is

[lucid walrus]

there’s not enough content or incentive to play it start to finish

[north thicket]

You take this for normal

[lucid walrus]

because it has been for years

[north thicket]

The metas, the stuff

Yes, that's why

You are used to it

You are used to incompetent devs

[lucid walrus]

who wouldn’t be

they’re not going anywhere lol

[north thicket]

Why would you be?

I am surprised they aren't going anywhere

[lucid walrus]

if you want a good game that doesn’t chain its players’ necks to a tree via nostalgia and grinding, you shouldn’t be playing modern WoW

[north thicket]

Grind is fine

Nostalgia or whatever is fine

I grew up with Warcraft and Starcraft

What is not fine

Is bullshit class design, controversial design decisions and everything else

That makes you wonder

What the fk are doing here

WoW is a great game

[north thicket]

Indeed, it's a great game, great universe

Art designers are doing a great job

Raids, dungeons art wise designed great

The storyline is still engaging after so many years (even if they make up heros/villains whatever, I don't read the books)

[dry bane]

if im playing annihilator

should i not be playing

Dancing blades?

[wheat jay]

maybe if you spent less time arguing for an impossible balance, and more on actually enjoying the content

youd have more fun xD

[lucid walrus]

i agree with everything but this

[north thicket]

It's fine, they make up some dragons and stuff 🙂

Artji maybe you are right

But there is another point of view

[wheat jay]

are you playing charts or game with friends?

[north thicket]

I am not playing charts or whatever

Just playing for fun at semi-decent level

[wheat jay]

then stop looking at meta and enjoy your shit xD

[north thicket]

I can't man

[wheat jay]

unless you're doing high-end shit meta has 0 influence to your gameplay

[north thicket]

I can't wait 1 hour in queues and stuff

I pug mostly

[wheat jay]

1h is copium

stop lying

[north thicket]

it's not!

[wheat jay]

i play worse m+ spec than you

and i get groups in 10min max

[north thicket]

On your hunter or warr?

[swift folio]

whats your rio ?

[north thicket]

2550+ or sth like that

[swift folio]

a bit low

[wheat jay]

hunt

survi is doggo in m+ except dmg

no aoe cc

no utility to group

[swift folio]

im 2700 and can easily get into 20s and 21s

[wheat jay]

no group defensives

[north thicket]

But you have the juice

[swift folio]

but i only do weeklys anyway

[north thicket]

Lust

[wheat jay]

lust only

which other classes also have

[north thicket]

When you have 1 dps spot locked for SP

1 tank spot for Veng DH (last patch)

[wheat jay]

no spot is locked in reality

[north thicket]

1 Ret

[swift folio]

who the fuck takes ret ?

[wheat jay]

noobs

[swift folio]

unless its Fh

[north thicket]

Rets were 25% of the melee M+ populations

[swift folio]

are you talking shortly after rework ?

[wheat jay]

thats bs

i sent graphs 😄

[north thicket]

I think these charts were for this season

[wheat jay]

of 25+ pre 10.1.5

[north thicket]

It's not bs

Do 20+

Where is the functionality on raider io

[wheat jay]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/897055819475091456/1130593461251350538/image.png?width=872&height=194

this

[north thicket]

Make it melee-only

[north thicket]

Aha

[swift folio]

still top 3

[wheat jay]

poor survi

[swift folio]

and fury is best melee

[north thicket]

So it's not 25% it's 27%

[wheat jay]

still

arms good

fury good

[swift folio]

imagine how dks feel

[wheat jay]

you're not influenced in the slightest at that range lol

[north thicket]

Yeah, I can imagine

It's not about my feelings or warriors

[wheat jay]

fam

[north thicket]

It's about that everybody should play his/her class and be invited

DKs, WWs

[wheat jay]

if ret was doing 3k more dps than lets say warr

ppl will ALWAYS take it instead of warr for HIGH end keys

[wheat jay]

i mean

imma say fuck rogues to that

despicable little shits

[north thicket]

Yeah, delete rogues pls, I second this

:)))

make them suffer

[swift folio]

they are getting a rework soon

[wheat jay]

maybe theyll remove vanish

[swift folio]

its gonna be just as fun as ret rework was in pvp

[wheat jay]

🙏

[north thicket]

This shouldn't be happening if the dev team is actually doing their job

But they are not

Their track record is riddled with mistakes, band-aids and stuff

[wheat jay]

i hope they make such mistake with survi

and give it more dmg

[north thicket]

After so many years you take this for normal

[wheat jay]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/163208438229368832/973890912566534184/sv_vibing-1.gif

[north thicket]

But it shouldn't be

[swift folio]

they did in SL

[swift folio]

its gonna be balanced once next season starts

at this point most people are dont anyway

[north thicket]

Sure, it's fine it's summer

To be honest I won't even maybe play so in theory I shouldn't care

[swift folio]

just as we are talking holy paladin gets nerfed

you are overreacting

[north thicket]

But the next season it will be the same shits all over again

[spice hornet]

oof

[lucid walrus]

really we're all playing a calculator

[north thicket]

It's not the season number, it's people behind it

[lucid walrus]

just run up some battlebit if you want a cheap game that gives you what you pay for

and more tbh

[wheat jay]

rip pala

[spice hornet]

Man they don’t want healing to be fun this expansion ha

OPness aside, any healer that’s too strong gets domed

[wheat jay]

true lol

[north thicket]

'We accidentally overshoot the number by 35% (60-25) ... maybe more but let's try to go with this'

Imagine Mike Ybarra accidentally undershooting their salaries by 35%!

[wheat jay]

that mana nerf is huge acutally

[north thicket]

Mid-seasonal adjustment

[wheat jay]

maybe even overnerf here

[north thicket]

Of their salaries

[wheat jay]

...

[north thicket]

To keep up the good work

[hot solstice]

still 1 min sac+2 bops

just went prevo sub vs hpala dk - so many cds to go through dude survived till 2nd pala bubble

[wheat jay]

I had a game where unholy did 60k dps

That normal?

[hot solstice]

imagine he had augmentation in team

[spice hornet]

thats about the same dps as survival huinter jumping around doing nothing

[hot solstice]

sometimes I wish sweeping strikes only hit players

[spice hornet]

it should

[wheat jay]

Maybe if I had gear 😦

[spice hornet]

there are way too many npcs in this game

spriest tentacles

shaman eles

demo pets

bm pets

dk pets

ww xuen

[wind ridge]

natbabes

[hot solstice]

have opposite problem with enhas ride the lightning talent....need 3+ targets in melee

[spice hornet]

hi

[round flax]

is arms or fury the play in pvp?

[lucid walrus]

no

[vapid tartan]

Pretty close in strength play whichever yr already better at

[silk mortar]

do we press slam as arms?

[obsidian loom]

You press logout as arms

@elfin surge your forum post is hilarious

It's like screaming into the void

[elfin surge]

I speak the truth nobody dares to say.

[wheat jay]

This comment is still the best xD

[elfin surge]

LOL

ye that ones good

[vapid tartan]

got 2.4 last season bc I started yelling skullsplit like mud

shit needed a nerf but damn it was fun 😦

[mild thunder]

Sks needed a nerf so boomy could do 300k full moons

[vapid tartan]

Yeah I think last season a small nerf to sks and nothing else changed would be justified

[scarlet flame]

is there a place i can find all the nerfs warriors recieved in DF? i get the major patches but they dont include anything regarding MS or SKS or anything else

[vapid tartan]

But we def need ms buff that shit feels embarrassing to press

[scarlet flame]

its bothering me

[vapid tartan]

same with exe

[elfin surge]

https://drustvar.com/pvp-spells

[scarlet flame]

thanks holy shit idk why it was hard to find

[hot solstice]

imagine spear is still 6 sec in pvp

[elfin surge]

these being nerfed

were a mistake

[wheat jay]

Just feign death it

[scarlet flame]

is this saying its nerfed by 30% or the value is 30% in pvp

[elfin surge]

30% value

11% in pvp