pvp

[elder wigeon]

frost dk's gave me aids and 6 second intervene was so unfun

[high sparrow]

ye frost was cancer

but didnt play vs it that much

also playing it urself was actually funny

frost tsg with spear and unhinged

[elder wigeon]

and WW's bug abusing to 1 tap people with SCK

[high sparrow]

just feels so bad with all the systems bloat they add every season

double legos and tier sets and resonators and shit

[craggy socket]

I smacked those teams today lol

A lot of bad warlocks I’ve noticed

[wheat crane]

I dk i quit after slike s1

S1 was fun

[obsidian loom]

I quit s2 before the great inflation

I should have quit s3 after getting stepsised the first time

And I shouldn't be playing abandoned s4

[craggy socket]

If its fun who cares lol

In a years time from now everyone will be complaining about dragonflight and saying how great shadowlands is/was

[simple rock]

we'll be in dark times if df is as bad as sl

looks pretty nice so far

[sage raptor]

SL doesn't have dragon riding

So

It's already infinitely better

Wpvp incentives like in bfa

Better pvp gearing

[craggy socket]

Yeah everyone always thinks the next xpac is the bee knees at first lol

[sage raptor]

No one thought that with shadowlands

[sage raptor]

Everyone seen the conduits and soulbinds etc and knew it was gonna be aids

So that argument holds no ground this time

Because there are no equivalents.

[simple rock]

locking players into covenants

maybe dumbest thing they ever did in wow

[indigo barn]

Literally every issue for every patch of this expansion has been found out far earlier than its release

[rough mountain]

Is Kyrian Arms better than Fury Necro for specifically TSG?

[simple rock]

for unholy tsg it's probably as good or better into melee cleaves

worse into casters

if your dk still coping with frost then kyrian arms for sure

[craggy socket]

I hope yall are right

DF looks amazing

[warped warren]

[sage raptor]

Doesn't NA have an MMR bug too?

[elder wigeon]

No

just an extremely low participation rate

[sage raptor]

Ah

Is that why it feels like aids?

[elder wigeon]

partially

most of it is that the game is just not that fun right now

[simple rock]

only like 2200 on NA 3s and every game is absolutely sweaty

only sweatlords left

[elder wigeon]

lmao

[sage raptor]

All my specs are meta

Why am I not having fun?

[elder wigeon]

lol difference between meta and meta defining

[sage raptor]

I think I'm just burnt out

[elder wigeon]

ur telling me man

[elder wigeon]

holy shit man

outplay this fury war sub rogue and then he gets blessing bopped evasions like a dog and cloaks and then step kidneys me and 100-0's me in 1 second in duel

killed the fury warrior too, went d stance at 100% health and then died LMFAO

[warped warren]

[elder wigeon]

actual fucking losers

[undone pumice]

[sand shadow]

finally

[warped warren]

ikr

finally i can queue

inb4 get +16 instead of 15

at 1600

with a -8 instead of 11

[steep inlet]

yep

fucking MMR bug was horrible

in EU some people got a lot more CR already

[fickle forge]

Is it already live?

[steep inlet]

yep

[warped warren]

should be on reset or?

[sand shadow]

It's a hotfix, and the wording itself suggests we don't have to wait for reset

should be live already

🤷‍♂️

[warped warren]

[bright spire]

is there a special way to hit primary target with warbringer's damage? or why do people take that honor talent?

[raw summit]

It just clobbers the target and sometimes cleaves people next to em

[bright spire]

ah ok, don't really see a reason for it then

ty

[raw summit]

It does damage

Damage kills people

[sharp meteor]

Because it buffs charge damage by 1300%

[bright spire]

ah my bad I thought that is base dmg of charge and warbringer only provides extended root and cone dmg ty ty

[sand shadow]

i've crit up to 25k warbringers

[sharp meteor]

also funni when it hits a druid in turtle or druid in tranq

doesn't feel as on good on kyrian but eh

[bright spire]

Also @sand shadow I got 311 gavel and it's really nice in 2s, but kinda garbage in 3s tbh

[warped warren]

i like gavel

if you can have alot of uptime its insane

[raw summit]

The venthyr boon fucking shreds

[warped warren]

venthyr?

the bleed?

[raw summit]

The bleed

Yep

[warped warren]

ye its disgusting

heals are insane aswell

[raw summit]

Disgusting item overall man

[warped warren]

the nf, necro and venth ones pump

kyr is fat armor

• ok dmg

ye i agree

[raw summit]

Maw and kyr kinda underwhelming in pvp id assume

Since they are aoe boons

[warped warren]

maw is good since its 500 str

the frontal is a bonus

[raw summit]

Yea i forgot it also gave strength

Have to play with it more

[warped warren]

kyrian good into melee cleaves

its like 4k armor

[raw summit]

I need more tokens for mythic gavel

[warped warren]

at 20 stacks

[raw summit]

Yea kyr gavel is disgusting

All of them are

Idk man

[warped warren]

if a game reaches 4min its ggwp

[raw summit]

Yea idk if you should ever delay using it

Tbf you can let the soul sit around a bit

Item CD starts running

[warped warren]

ye

i mean i think sending it insta, granted youre not into a cc comp

is the play

if you think its a damp game

if not damp, you can hold it for after their def cds or smth

rn im sending off cd

[raw summit]

[sand shadow]

how do you even have that wep

dont you need to mythic raid to get it at 311?

[sharp meteor]

Mythic gamer.

[sand shadow]

or can you just farm the currency in normal/hc raids?

and it just costs more?

[sharp meteor]

I'll pug heroic at the most so I just pretend mythic loot doesn't exist and wipe games vs Trill in my reflex because those don't count.

[sand shadow]

so I need to kill 30 bosses to complete the quest and get a Dinar and then kill at least one Mythic boss for the upgrade token to upg the item?

[gritty hearth]

Kyrian arms or fury better to pair with an aff lock in 3s?

[full quiver]

Pretty sure it's 20 mythic kills to upgrade lol

👍👍👍👍

[sand shadow]

ah ok

if thats the case im actually happy

aint no way im doing that

[full quiver]

Lol right

[sand shadow]

if it were just 1 mythic boss I could get someone to get me into the first boss or wtv

[full quiver]

It's not that bad you can do it in one week

Just full clear a couple mythic raids

🤡

[sand shadow]

yea im good brochacho

thanks tho

[full quiver]

Lol

[sand shadow]

gavel SUCKS anyway i didnt want it anyway

[raw summit]

do 30 lfr bosses for the chance to grab any normal tmog u want

[high sparrow]

currently watching dakkroth rage on stream cos hes been in a 10min game vs ww prot paladin and theyre just dampening

god bless

[craggy socket]

What do you mean tokens towards mythic gavel?

[obsidian loom]

is this copium

i had a heroic gavel in s3 it wasnt that good but maybe i was using it wrong, i feel like the secondaries lost are too high

[lapis haven]

i have 30% haste and 38% verse do i want more haste?. I heard from another warrior player that i need 30 but do i typically need more haste?

[elfin surge]

u prob good

[lapis haven]

is there a soft cap on verse?

[sharp meteor]

secondary stats aren't real

[lapis haven]

any typical % i want to stop at

[sharp meteor]

play w/e u want it doesn't matter

although below 20-25% haste feels iffy

[elfin surge]

@lapis haven are u all pvp gear

[lapis haven]

yes, im gemming now

[elfin surge]

just buy Haste > Vers > Mastery from pvp vendor and you BIS

[lapis haven]

yea im decked out in all conquest gear, should i gem more verse. since theres a DR on haste above 30%

my mastery is at 26%

[sharp meteor]

it's a 10% loss above 30% which is

basically nothing

although vers is kind of weak as a dmg stat

[elfin surge]

gem speed ones first then go whatever

[sage raptor]

Dude I thought me and my buddies in middle school made up brochacho lol

I haven't heard it since

[near delta]

It was popular in like mid to late 2000s lol

[sage raptor]

Fugggg

[wheat crane]

Easy bromontana

Aint that old yet

[spice hornet]

mm hunters everywhere now

happily killed one through turtle with warbringer kekw hes probably so pissed

[sand shadow]

that bug brings me so much happiness ngl 😄

i know its unfair, but I have beef w/ hunters from 2s so cant help it

[spice hornet]

lol yup

wish i could hear comms

especialyl when it happens to a fotm hunter who hasnt seen it before

[sand shadow]

[nimble jasper]

hunters dying in turtle to bladeflurry equally as funny

[sand shadow]

outlaws having that too does NOT bring me happiness ngl

[nimble jasper]

i killed an rdru as he went for meld drink with it

died laughing so hard

[full quiver]

Had a druid Leap into me right as I'm about to spear ww

So I spear both

Doesn't tranq

Kill him next go after he tranqs at 20% before spear

[nimble jasper]

had a hunter look annoyed

petsacs himself

instant start swap and unload pump onto his pet

[sonic hearth]

Hi friends. Havent played in awhile, im kyrian arms and trying to que with randoms for ret/priest or turbocleave. How do i deal with shadowplay, whats the win conditions for us and whats my job here, games so fast now im getting gaped

[lean burrow]

Does pet get extra damaged or something with petsac?

[spice hornet]

pet takes some of the dmg the hunter takes

[lean burrow]

So you cleave hunter with ww and focus on pet?

[spice hornet]

you can definitely swap pet on pet sac at any point, especially if you notice its around 50%

spear destroys pet

like if u spear both

mmm

pets are easy to kill but good hunters that play with the same healer it def is much harder

most hunters are bad fotm players tho

[lean burrow]

ty fren

[near delta]

When the healer legit uses CDs on the pet, you know it's going to be a rough one.

[wheat crane]

the 5% move gem still works in pvp right

[sharp meteor]

think so

speed good

getting out of line = better mitigation than 0.2% vers

getting on target sooner = more dmg than 0.4% haste

[balmy compass]

has anyone noticed any significant change in MMR? we've won 8 games in a row and only went up 70 mmr

[sharp meteor]

thats cos somebodys mmr was in shambles

u dont rocket up if beating speds

[high sparrow]

didnt they also say some changes were only with the maintenance reset?

[balmy compass]

yeah it could be, just seeing if anyone has noticed any change

cos in my experience nothing has changed

[undone pumice]

hello again

i return from runescape exile to inquire: is dragonflight looking good so far

[spice hornet]

Hmmmmmm

[lean burrow]

people will play DF even if it's not good

[sharp meteor]

It's in alpha nobody knows

people barely figure out shit on live

[elder wigeon]

if by that you mean the warrior tree is looking to be fun then yes

[spice hornet]

What’s ~2300-2500 3s lookin like lately

Haven’t q’d in awhile

[copper hare]

https://gyazo.com/9b12e11de68542764dd5ce73d2d9d0ce

50k execute anyone?

[spice hornet]

Mmmm

[sharp meteor]

Arms slaps again and idk what to make of that.

[copper hare]

that rogue just disappeared at 70% hp

haha

[sharp meteor]

🪓 Justice.

[desert meadow]

Do you play haste or crit as arms ?

[sharp meteor]

I think that a mixture of the two is best.

Full crit feels awful and slow with too much emphasis on 1-bangs.

Full haste has little to no bang/gib potential when games are super volatile.

[copper hare]

i play fury aswell so haste gear

[sharp meteor]

Imo it's basically just a split of the two.

[copper hare]

was an outlaw ofc xd

[sharp meteor]

mastery isn't bad but doesn't feel as impactful

[desert meadow]

yeah i'm playing fury rn but i think i'm gonna switch for some v3

have full haste gear, gonna mix it up a bit

[copper hare]

I just play bad and brain dead as fury

idk

arms is pretty much unplayable in 2s specially after 2k mmr unless you're qwnner or something

but i dont understand how def stance is still only 10% dmg reduction while 20 dmg output decrese

decrease

doesnt make any sense

[lean burrow]

blizz intern who does pvp balancing is rogue player

[wheat jay]

Funny of you to assume there's a pvp intern

There's pvp noone my dude

[wheat crane]

Theres definitely some questionable rogue developments this xpac

Like dots are meaningless for restealths now

Used to have to cloak to re

Now you just mash the button and get basic immunity

[high sparrow]

i was looking at the sub tree in df and its absolutely retarded

not only do they keep the shield stealth conduit, in DF they have 2 vanishes

vanish also reduces the cd on their other abilities by 20 seconds too

[wheat crane]

So dumb

Theres literally no counterplay to it

[high sparrow]

thats why when people say warrior is looking broken i tell them to chill and look at other classes too

[wheat crane]

100%

They backdoored mage buffs

So db is gonna be back to its low cd

[high sparrow]

ye and its in the class tree now

so every mage spec has it god bless

[wheat crane]

So still gonna have their braindead gos on every stun dr

Like you literally face 1800cr rms

[high sparrow]

sub is gonna have 3 covenant abilities in df too xd

[wheat crane]

Who are non ironically backpeddling

Literally can barely function

And you still lose or BARELY pull off a win

Plus you can literally script the entire rogue rotation in a 1 button press macro

[high sparrow]

i get a lot of rage whispers from rogues saying warriors are braindead

after they tunneled 1 target the entire game, same as a fury warrior

[copper hare]

at least the most broken ability why rmp is so broken has been nerfed

dragons breath

at least something good to look forward to

[high sparrow]

it d idnt get nerfed tho no

and now all 3 mage specs have it

enjoy

[copper hare]

they increased the cd from 18 to 45 sec no?

[high sparrow]

no its back to 20s

[copper hare]

oh perfect

gonna hang myself brb

NOT brb*

I guess its time for united states airlines cleave then

[high sparrow]

which ones that

[copper hare]

double evoker dh

[high sparrow]

looking forward to hero class cleave

[wheat crane]

Think they specifically said the evoker shit wont work with kidney shot

So at least the df pvp intern has played some of the game

[copper hare]

I hope they increade kidney duration though

7 sec only, there is no kill window ever right?

[wheat crane]

Think they said theyre actually capping stuns at 6 sec

[fickle forge]

Shield's at least only on Vanish though

And you can't break Vanish with dmg anyway so

[wheat crane]

Is it? Thats actually nice then

Cant just sprint away and spam restealth with full dots on then without cloak

[fickle forge]

Yeah

So you can break them out with DoTs again

[copper hare]

thats the dumbest thing ever

being able to vanish without any kind of punishment

and then staying in stealth for how long you want

taking the eye in arena should make you sap immun at least

[sand shadow]

them getting a safe out on Vanish has never bothered me personally

its them having 3s stealth CD that applies the shield

that is absolutely batshit insane imo

and having CDR on Vanish, ofc, as Outlaw, that's dumb AF

if it's once per 2min, I can live with it

having a clean out w/ Vanish every 45 to 60s is absolutely busted alongside the rest of the toolkit

[wheat crane]

This

Vanish is fine its tied to a cd

[fickle forge]

Only been a thing for 18 years now fam

[simple rock]

I mean in older xpacs you can instantly shout them out or aoe if no cloak

now it's just another get out of jail free card

[wheat crane]

uhh does this 5% move gem actually work feels like it makes no difference

[simple rock]

yea it does

/script base = BASE_MOVEMENT_SPEED
/script cur, run, fly, swim = GetUnitSpeed("player")
/script ChatFrame1:AddMessage(string.format("Your current maximal speeds are: running %g%%, flying %g%%, swimming %g%%.", run/base100, fly/base100, swim/base*100))

[wheat crane]

cool

[wheat crane]

THE FUCK

[simple rock]

macro for showing your current speed %

[wheat crane]

oh damnnn

aight

[copper hare]

yeah back then you were at least able to get them out with shouts/clap/bladestorm

now they can literally stay in stealth and tank a full bladestorm and nothing happens xd

its so dumb

[sand shadow]

iirc, the 5% gem works, but not when you're slowed

but never tested it myself so might be fake news idk

[sand shadow]

'course nothing happens, that shield thing is like 30k hp

w/ eternal gear, even more

[fickle forge]

I'm pretty sure direct damage still breaks stealth

I've hit WW on rogues pressing meld plenty of times

[sand shadow]

nah, it doesnt in shield

you just get them in SMeld

[fickle forge]

Need to verify that

[sand shadow]

there's a window

hence why they all step friend and meld/stealth at higher mmr

[fickle forge]

I'm positive you can get them out, I'll give it a shot tomorrow

[sand shadow]

meld itself doesn't apply stealth conduit

so there's a small window to get them out

[fickle forge]

I'll tag here tomorrow on what I find out

[simple rock]

I've broken through rogue shields for sure with bladestorm

and got them out of stealth

but never instantly

also semi unrelated, there's a vanish bug where you can still target them in stealth the whole time

dunno when/why it happens

[obsidian loom]

Wait till you read about their new ability called "the rotten"

Might have been a legendary

Idc enough to find out

Just stack million combo points after vanish and kidney forever

[sand shadow]

[high sparrow]

nothing would surprise me at this point

[sand shadow]

quite unlikely imo

this is on my 294ilvl rogue

more likely, the shield just dropped before BS did and he was still in range and that's why; it's only 4s

[sage raptor]

Oh it's damage in general. I thought it was just magic damage.

[sand shadow]

wait wtf

I have 91.7K hp

and that condi is suppsoedly 27% of max hp

yet it absorbs 33.5k

[high sparrow]

[sand shadow]

lovely

[simple rock]

I think it was in s2 vs rogue with low lvl conduits maybe

distinctly remember bladestorming instantly on vanish

[sage raptor]

Maybe he didn't have the conduit at all

[sand shadow]

yeah vanish is 3s

[south birch]

it's nerfed in pvp too

[elder wigeon]

yeah by half

[lean burrow]

expac after DF:

"rogues now are invulnerable in stealth"

[sharp meteor]

This thing got nerfed bigly.

[high sparrow]

Shadowstrike now generates energy instead of spending it, and also causes you to eviscerate the target as if u spent 7 combo points

[sage raptor]

Rogues are the main characters

[lucid walrus]

Fixed an issue where players participating in 3v3 Arena could lose rating when playing as a team consisting of a Fire Mage, Subtlety Rogue and Holy Priest.

[wheat crane]

Furys wild sometimes

Just get a random reck proc and almost murder something without trying

[radiant mortar]

what's causing drain life to heal so much this season

[lucid walrus]

think there's a leggo for it, dunno if they run that one

[elder wigeon]

soul rot and drain life legendary and a talent to increase drain's damage and healing and a conduit

[lapis haven]

How do you catch a druid FC as a warrior

I cant seem to stay on top of them

[elder wigeon]

you don't

[sharp meteor]

they have 30 seconds cc immunity plus big longer with bark i think

but yeah don't charge/bolt/spear/pierce into it if possible as they just walk away

[gritty hearth]

Any guess when season 4 is gonna end with DF release date in late Nov?

Would it end with the pre patch in October?

[elder wigeon]

yes

[gritty hearth]

Glad gonna be way harder this season I guess 😦

[elder wigeon]

yep

[lucid walrus]

yessir

[sly furnace]

Have they fixed the mmr issue in eu?

[warped warren]

y

[fickle forge]

https://imgur.com/Kf8rfhl

[elder wigeon]

looks like mop enhance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iRsycrq2FA a throwback montage

mop enhance was something else with the ele blasts

[elfin surge]

fr

https://youtu.be/qTj4Vqr9erQ

@elder wigeon

[elder wigeon]

uncovering artifacts from a different era

man i miss those old animations

[elfin surge]

same

[elder wigeon]

closest thing we got is the ripper removing streaks

[quick vessel]

is gavel/jaithys good in pvp

[fiery furnace]

jaithys used to overwhelm people with lucky proccs in season 2. it can be a huge blast.

[quick vessel]

ok i was wondering since i have a 298 jaithys and a 285 gavel

[quick vessel]

one of my favorite mop videos

[raw summit]

not enough ilvl prolly

[quick vessel]

ok

[fickle forge]

Diablous still plays, and often some gimmick enh build

[wheat crane]

Should i grab the 2h sword or double up on hammers

Guess it makes literally no difference

[spice hornet]

Isn’t the sword crit

I believe mastery is a lil better for fury than crit

[sharp meteor]

yep

[past jolt]

It’s the conduit, accrued vitality that causes it to heal them over team for all the dmg it dealt as well as all of that you mentioned

[past jolt]

If you plan on going arms, most arms rock the crit vers

[fickle forge]

Just pick mastery, both specs benefit from that

[past jolt]

Nope, arms is a lot better off with the crit

[willow atlas]

does speed tertiary not work in pvp?

[full quiver]

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[fickle forge]

They're literally both fine

You don't fuck yourself over by going heavy one or the other

[full quiver]

🐀🐀🐀🐀

[past jolt]

you go for haste and crit and vers on arms

0 mastery!!

[fickle forge]

They're literally all fine to choose from, just take what you pref

But mast is def good on fury

May as well go with hammer then

[past jolt]

nobody uses that hammer as arms unless they're swapping between the 2

in which case sure

[fickle forge]

Which he is

[past jolt]

arms is amazing tho

fury willb e nerfed soon ib et

[fickle forge]

For sure dude

[past jolt]

i bet u money

that raging blow charge

will be removed from 4 set proc

[fickle forge]

[past jolt]

at some pt

and i only say that because

tormented kings doesn't interact with reckless abandon

so why should 4 set

[fickle forge]

[past jolt]

iis there a good reason for it tho

[fickle forge]

@steep inlet How's your mastery adventures going?

[past jolt]

jokes aside

[fickle forge]

No, but you expecting Blizz to make actual changes?

[past jolt]

not if the leaks of november release are true

if late december than maybe

id still consider arms an s tier spec, even better than fury in some areas

and easier to play for most

i mean fury is easier to play for most*

[steep inlet]

Did a 57k execute on trillebartom today

Now I need one of my teams back

Stuff myself

And tryhard

[full quiver]

just take the crit sword

and never play fury

because it's stupid af and boring

[lucid walrus]

game was much more fun when i told myself i’d play as little fury as possible

[wet scarab]

man I logged on to do some arenas with a friend for the first time since week 1, sucks that fury is still better

so brain dead

[simple rock]

arms is totally playable in 3s

but yes it's inting in 2s

[wet scarab]

yeah I played it a lot in 3s last season, and found it okay in 2s generally, I don't know but this season it feels like a bigger gap somehow

[full quiver]

Didn't magnus play it to rank 1

[wet scarab]

maybe will switch back with better gear

I mean Magnus can play tinker to rank 1

[simple rock]

yeah but mag plays with the best 2s druid in the world too

[full quiver]

I find arms does much better into rogue

And other wars

And ww

Lol

But hunter and caster feels way better as fury

[sharp meteor]

Idk about that

[simple rock]

I'd agree that arms does better into sub

maybe assa depending on their healer

but outlaw still autolose

fury 40% ms + reck procs so much more pressure in 2s with damp

and far less kiteable

[sharp meteor]

Seems better into outlaw, but probs autolose.

and Arms blowing somebody up in a spear/warbreaker still fine and dandy.

[simple rock]

was watching drainer play vs r1 arms

mw + outlaw

hilarious

[sharp meteor]

I mean yeah that's just donezo

it's really hard to play Fury into decent people though

[simple rock]

for sure

warr is just not top tier in 2s

[sharp meteor]

this is known

[near delta]

Stats feel like gym bro science sometimes lmao

[simple rock]

cuz it is for arms

nothing is clearly the best except having a decent amount of haste

even then you can get high rated forgoing haste i'm sure

[full quiver]

Full crit plus priest for PI

Def bis

😎

[sharp meteor]

I mean it's hard to figure exactly value

pvp is weird because of lack of uptime dmg profiles cds etc

what's bis/optimal might vary by comp or playstyle which makes it hard to pin down exactly what's best as it changes a lot so can realistically only go with what seems/feels the best into the most things

[lucid walrus]

haste fuck good

crit fuck good

troma make mast fuck good

[near delta]

Yeah for sure.

[torn granite]

Hey all, what resources are reliable for warrior arena info?

[sharp meteor]

uh streamers or stat sites like drustvar ig

i usually just pick what seems the most reliable and adjust based on what i queue into

[torn granite]

thanks

havent done arenas since... like wrath lol want to know where to start

[spice hornet]

@elfin surge will you be streaming anymore prot this week?

[high sparrow]

hope so

i heard he's big fan of tanks in arena

[warped warren]

[steep inlet]

Good

Mastery build

Or low versa cloth ennemy

[warped warren]

was a wlock in shuffle

[near delta]

[waxen granite]

try anger management as arms into specs that have a disarm, it gets them off guard

also highest bracket in 2s is also very much mindgame

you can probably win anything if u get into the other guy's head

try bladestorming/banner kidneys/disarms and outlaws can flop quickly

but it workks both ways and I can't say warrior wil l ever have advantage on them

[spice hornet]

everyday i still jut sit baffled that fire has ring of frost

so fucking busted

[elder wigeon]

lmfao

[sharp meteor]

trying to get a read on when they're gonna disarm/kidney

is like the least reliable thing

[waxen granite]

it isnt reliable

[sharp meteor]

because you know it's coming but trying to pre is just like

[waxen granite]

it's a mindgame

[sharp meteor]

just hoping they throw their shit into it

[full quiver]

Love getting a parry on kidney

[waxen granite]

if ur at 2.4 mmr playing arms u need a fair amount of mindgame to be able to clutch hunters/outlaws

[full quiver]

Imagine playing arms seriously in 2s

[waxen granite]

lmao there's more than you might think

[full quiver]

My mental can't handle playing real players on arms

Melee in general lol

The second you hit the decently sweaty people playing better 2s specs it just sucks

I remember getting 2.1 on alt warrior but we went like 20-2 so our mmr was 2.4

[simple rock]

anger management only ever seemed decent into arms mirrors

[full quiver]

And queueing into absterge

And he just dumpsters me lmao

[simple rock]

not having 2 overpower charges seems giga int

and dreadnaught dmg

[waxen granite]

I played spear damage instead of overpower dam for bigger spear goes

[full quiver]

Makes ur 4pc shittier too

[elder wigeon]

overpower damage bonus will make you do more dmg in spear goes than bigger spear

20% increase to OP and dreadnaught is huge

[waxen granite]

not rlly

[full quiver]

🤔

[waxen granite]

if I'm on a spear go I'll rarely press overpower mroe than once

[sharp meteor]

Questionable.

[elder wigeon]

lol how are you only pressing OP that little during a spear go?

[full quiver]

Lol so you hit ms and they get topped insta

Now you can't execute

So you hit slam?

[waxen granite]

MS suddendeath proc / executre

[elder wigeon]

are you only spearing targets around 40%?

[waxen granite]

i try to

[elder wigeon]

doesn't make sense to hold it for that

[sharp meteor]

You've basically got to send it roughly off cd alongside every other bolt.

Sometimes off a piercing/root if they don't have an out.

[elder wigeon]

the only time spear conduit even makes sense is if you're able to PVE amp your spear's damage otherwise it's negligible

IE avatar warbreaker into spear

or reck + enrage then spear

[sharp meteor]

Yep. Fully charged spear absolutely slams but can't always get it that clean.

[elder wigeon]

extremely rare

[sharp meteor]

At least not as consistently to the point I'd play that conduit over ms/op

[elder wigeon]

especially in a setup comp like WPS

[sharp meteor]

Feels nice as fury as fury only has 1 good dps condi

[elder wigeon]

you just gotta go you can't amp it because timing is everything

[waxen granite]

considering I was playing anger management not using overpower damage just makes sense puting all the eggs in the same basket

[sharp meteor]

with the other being big spear, str on heal, execute bt, etc

[elder wigeon]

you're putting all of your eggs in the wrong basket

[waxen granite]

okay mr theorycrafter

[elder wigeon]

??

[full quiver]

So vs hpriesy hunter you just auto lose

Because you can't spear

[elder wigeon]

you're the theorycrafter here lol

[full quiver]

??

[sharp meteor]

I mean it has potential but I think it leaves a bit to be desired as a generalist setup

[elder wigeon]

all the shit I'm talking about is proven and been the "build" for all of shadowlands

I don't talk out of my ass I have real experience with all this

[waxen granite]

so do I ?

I've been running dreadnaught

[elder wigeon]

if it makes you feel any better I'm a 3100 warrior

[waxen granite]

I'm trying things

weirdflex

[elder wigeon]

no, not really, you're being dismissive of me

I'm not that good but I know what I'm talking about, piercing verdict is a cope conduit, it's not very good unless you can get your entire checklist of modifiers so it hits hard

[sharp meteor]

Yeah. It's a pity it doesn't affect the dot portion or something.

[elder wigeon]

I'd prefer if it did

[simple rock]

I remember when I was starting out i'd try avatar > wb > spear and it'd get trinket blinked every time by decent mages

[elder wigeon]

would be nice that instead of giving all the rage upfront it gave you say 5 rage per second during the spear and increased the total damage by say 20%

i really wish the fury conduits weren't so damn boring

[lucid walrus]

we played into the most confounding RM i’ve ever seen yday

warmongering r1 mage with a mistweaver. mage played it like it was corrupted season just constantly threatening gpy on my hpal

[sharp meteor]

queued into outlaw/fire in 2s and the rogue would only enter melee range with kidney and would otherwise just max range pistol shot while the mage perma lined

and of course connecting on mage = alter

[lucid walrus]

unreal

ranged rogue

[full quiver]

Lol

[wheat crane]

lol just logged on a coupel alts for no reason

got on my rogue

remembered sub rogue really isnt alot of buttons at all if u use macros

600 iq class tho

[waxen granite]

sub is kkinda 2 times more buttons than fury regardless

[wheat jay]

Everything is more buttons than fury lmao

Not a good indicator of what a complex spec is

[elder wigeon]

2x the buttons implies fury is 1 button

[sharp meteor]

I mean sub is cheap shadowstrike evisc

[wheat jay]

And one button macro LETS GOOOOOOOO

[sharp meteor]

and every 1900 2v2 rogue player pats themselves on the back for being aware of what DR is

[wheat jay]

CAST SEQUENCE FOR NOOBS LETS GOOOOO

Only class that can have a cast fucking sequence

[sharp meteor]

Xar flinging his camera all over the place to draw attention away from his castsquence burst macro

[elder wigeon]

does he really have one?

[sharp meteor]

hate fire

[waxen granite]

u can't really have a cast sequence on sub if u want maximum damage

[sharp meteor]

hate sub

[wheat jay]

You'd be surprised at how many rogues have it

[sharp meteor]

hope sub gets reworked into something other than the unbalancable mess it currently is

[wheat jay]

Dont need maximum damage when you can burst 300% of someone's hp in a stun

[waxen granite]

that's a cap

[sharp meteor]

i mean having the potential to almost solo somebody every dr is

a little bit much when you consider mage doesn't have to cast to contribute although they do generally proc disc command, then hpriest throws like a holy fire or mg in

[waxen granite]

considering u play kyrian in fact you litterally can't do exactly the same thing everytime

[sharp meteor]

every other dr is kyrian

[wheat jay]

And that's enough seeing how you have kyrian burst, combust, grenades, and priest kyrian pop available for your setups

[full quiver]

Lol

[wheat jay]

There's a reason people call rmp /pull 3 comp

[full quiver]

Make cheapshot not spammable

[sharp meteor]

it's just weird how many ways rmp can kill you

[full quiver]

Make it so if I bladestorm a Cc I'm on dr

[sharp meteor]

you are if you time it right

[full quiver]

Bladestorm kidney to still trinket cheapshot lmao

[waxen granite]

and yeah if u macro shadowdance with symbols ur doing it wrong as well

[full quiver]

Does it put you on dr

I was wondering other day

Because you sometimes get kidney or cloned

[sharp meteor]

if you storm as stuff hits you it'll break it after and you're on dr

[full quiver]

Then bladestorm out

[wheat jay]

If you do it so it breaks stun, it puts you on dr

[sharp meteor]

easier with casted stuff like poly or cyclone though

[near delta]

Really hard to consistently dr bs

[sharp meteor]

very unreliable with kidney unless it's mordor where rogue presses mfd then waits before kidney

although just spinning their step kidney/cheap can mean you fear or disarm out which can scuff that go

[wheat jay]

10s stun every combo

Kidney double cheap

Fucking dogshit design

Im all down for rogues being the masters of Control

It fits the theme of sub

[high sparrow]

really isnt tho

[full quiver]

Called cheapshot for a reason

It's cheap

Lmao

[wheat jay]

Sub being Control, assa being rot dmg, and outlaw being consistent

[full quiver]

Rename kidney shot

[elder wigeon]

make rogues have to choose between damage and control lol

[full quiver]

Buttfucks

[wheat jay]

But why is the best Control spec also doing the highest burst

[full quiver]

Def not the highest

[wheat jay]

Choose my ass, they do both all the time

[full quiver]

By long shot lol

[wheat jay]

Ok, one of the highest

[full quiver]

He said make them

[wheat jay]

Saw a game from Kargish recently

[full quiver]

Not they do

Go to bed artji

Smh

[wheat jay]

Man went from 100 to 20% in a global

[high sparrow]

at least back in like wrath a bad sub rogue legit flops, and they only dance once a minute

now they can shadow dance like 4x back to back and are immortal

[wheat jay]

Fuk u, its 1am and i am tired after work

Man my sleep schedule sucks ass

[full quiver]

Lol

I don't understand why they can spam cheapshot

Seems like a dumb design

[wheat jay]

It is

[full quiver]

Make it let you use one of each ability from stealth

[sharp meteor]

It's just annoying that every DR you're forced to sit on your hands and lose your entire health bar twice

[full quiver]

Or something lik

[sharp meteor]

then between stuns it's cloak/evasion/leap/step/vanish, etc

I think it was like unchained where I had a 11 minute match vs rm where we lost on mana

[wheat jay]

Lol

[spice hornet]

ele blast hits so hard ohly fuck

very fun on my enh

alt

[simple rock]

was playing turbo yesterday and my enh hit 30k blast into 25k lavalash

it was fucked

current stats

juicy

[spice hornet]

Thas a nice stat distribution for arms

Comfy

[lucid walrus]

based

[spice hornet]

Furry mastery stack build with ancient after shock when?

[sharp meteor]

i saw some worgen player on the forums trying that and they said it was pretty awful

they also played death wish and would just ramp that then 1-bang somebody

have already played venth, kyrian and necro so tempted to play nf for the completionism factor

[high sparrow]

Massacre reduced to 25%

Rip

[elder wigeon]

lol def not worth the talent then

[high sparrow]

pretty unfortunate changes for pvp tonight

Mortal Strike damage reduced to 174% of attack power to allow for talents modifying it (was 194%).

this is one of the things i was scared about

all these idiotic modifiers meant we were either gonna 1 shot with modifiers or do 0 damage without

Valor in Victory – Increases Versatility by 1.5% and now reduces the cooldown of Die by the Sword by 15 seconds per rank.

seems like this is pretty much the only positive for pvp in today's changes

dbts back at 1.5m cd kinda strong

[wheat crane]

I mean depends

Like they could literally just tune warrior with like a 10% aura buff at any time

And the actual numbers on abilities are irrelevant

Theyre literally nerfing every damaging spell in the warrior kit

[high sparrow]

yeah but some had their actual functionality changed

now just how much dmg it does

like a 25% massacre feels awful and worthless to take

[sage raptor]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonflight-alpha-warrior-tuning-changes-and-talent-tree-updates-328477?webhook

Yall seen?

[high sparrow]

battlelord proc chance reduced to 30% down from 40% etc

[sage raptor]

I see you have

[wheat crane]

Definitely those nerfs are shit

The damage #s tho whatever

Those go up and down

[high sparrow]

yeah idc if they nerf the dmg that shows on ur screen

but like in what world do u ever take massacre now?

[wheat crane]

Fair

[high sparrow]

not only did it get nerfed to 25%, the node right above it went up in points required

[wheat crane]

25% is meaningless

[high sparrow]

and it already wasnt a particularly interesting node

[vernal plank]

if you are full stacked in execute talents in arms you might want execute to start juggernaut earlier

you are already taking storm bolt so its just 1 point

[high sparrow]

yes and that was true when it was 35%

but massacre at 25% just feels terrible

u'll probably still take massacre yeah cos e verything else also got nerfed so hard it feels bad to take anyway

[vernal plank]

agreed it feels like not enough for a talent point. i still picked it when i drafted the tree just now though

ya

[high sparrow]

yeah

https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/warrior/arms/BPEVRFFRZEFBCgVQFCUAOVVBWVVUBASgUFQCAA

[vernal plank]

https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/warrior/arms/BPEVRVFRRUBBWgVQFDBAQOVVBWUFUBFQoFBRCFE

[high sparrow]

this is what ive made so far and i dont even know where to put my last talent

so i guess u just drop it into massacre anyway

[lucid walrus]

if we keep rage economy then SD might not have gotten hit that hard but man

[high sparrow]

but a lot of the stuff in my tree is situational too so u'll have even more leftover points

[lucid walrus]

we also have lots more spenders so that sucks

[high sparrow]

dont think blunt instruments is the play

maybe vs melee cleaves or casters u have uptime on

then yeah i suppose, since sharpened got gutted

also fatality is retarded right now on alpha i think, so we'll probs be going that instead of ur execute build

[vernal plank]

if you are running fatality and not jug you can defintiely find something better than massacre

[high sparrow]

right now on alpha fatality is like 8-9k damage per stack

[vernal plank]

fairo - hadn't looked into it. just looked very PVE from the talentsaround it

[high sparrow]

i dont wanna play fatality, i'd much rather the execute build

but execute build now that massacre got nerfed is very feelsbadman

[vernal plank]

yeah fair

i'd grab frothing over massacre for sure tho

[high sparrow]

also u didnt take armored to the teeth, but thats a lot of strength ure missing out on

[vernal plank]

without jug

[high sparrow]

idk

i swear frothing is straight garbage

[sand shadow]

the only thing I hate about this arms tree is the fact that you need to pick both CS AND Warbreaker apparently

[high sparrow]

it was already prettty mediocre before, and now it got changed to only affect mortal strike lmao

[sand shadow]

what a waste

[high sparrow]

u dont get refunds anymore from slam or execute

[sand shadow]

you literally can't access that part of the tree otherwise

[vernal plank]

you are spending a ton of time between 80 and 25 (or 20) in pvp

thats a lot of extra rage from MS spam

[high sparrow]

a lot of extra rage that you wont need

theyve already said they want us to generate a lot more rage than on live currently

[vernal plank]

damn ok, sounds nice

spam IP then

[high sparrow]

on alpha we were swimming with rage, even if that generations been nerfed its still probably more than we can dump

[vernal plank]

wait have we still got IP

[high sparrow]

IP is gone

thats the problem

[vernal plank]

😢

[high sparrow]

u literally wont have anything to dump ur rage, just MS and slam

slam wotn refund

frothing is just awful now really

[vernal plank]

damn maybe u right

[high sparrow]

20% chance to refund 20% of ur ms, thats nothing

also

i took rend and skullsplitter in my build cos theyre both hittiing super hard

rend is the highest damage per rage in the game right now, does more damage than 2 fury rampages while costing half the rage

[vernal plank]

worth grabbing blood and thunder then?>

[high sparrow]

and its even better now with deft experience buffing the direct damage fro mrend by 100%

if u go that way

[high sparrow]

vs melee cleaves it might be yeah

[vernal plank]

cant wait to try these out for real

hopefully theres a couple of good builds to swap between

[high sparrow]

i cant imagine fatality not getting nerfed

its such a dumb design for pvp

if people let u get enough stacks they'll just die when u eventually proc it

i think with these changes it might be time for the bleed build actually lol

[vernal plank]

sounds pretty nutty

[high sparrow]

rend only got a very slight nerf compared to everything else

depending on how much rage we have, sudden death might not be worth anymore

they nerfed the proc rate and it doesnt make execute free anymore

could put that point into bloodboorne instead

the arms tree isnt that bad tho, this class tree on the other hand

[vernal plank]

what dont you like about it?

[high sparrow]

that everything got nerfed massively lol

ive got a lot of points leftover cos i dont even know what to take

like 5% attack speed, honed reflexes is only 0.5s cdr, massacre 25%, frothing berserker only applies to ms, 2 points for 3% crit chance, shattering / wrecking throw which have no use vs a lot of comps

[wheat crane]

Man the havoc tree is loaded

[high sparrow]

nvm

[high sparrow]

isnt blade dance their spender

that has like 6second cd or some shit

its getting a 50% ms 💀

[wheat crane]

It has one already its just the honor talent

Chaos strike is the main spender

Its 50% pve 25% pvp

[full quiver]

I wonder what new pvp talent for BD will be

[wheat crane]

Its kinda an overloaded tree

Lol every nodes good

Kinda funny when you remember the class only has 4 buttons

But sick trees

[simple rock]

the 30s cd auto blur

disgusting

[copper hare]

Really? I feel like dh tree is kinda underwhelming. Legendaries and artifact tree made them really fun in legion, after that they just feel pruned.

[simple rock]

anyone here know how duel interacts with already existing aff lock dots?

like if I duel lock on dark soul will that reduce dmg on teammates?

[copper hare]

It should be since no kind of snapshotting is in this game anymore so for the duration of the duel time it should his dmg should be decreased by 50%

[wheat crane]

Its definitely pruned, i dabble with dh here n there, they like took every passive, talent and borrowed power currently and made it its own node lol

Like 5 talent points for what fel rush does baseline + 1 talent lol

[copper hare]

yeah apart from your covenant and soulbinds nothing does dmg anymore

[wheat crane]

The only thing that still snapshots is tigers fury for some reason for feral

Everything else is dynamic

[simple rock]

they should've went with the 1st version of DH talent tree tbh

[wheat crane]

Lmfao

Legit tho

[copper hare]

the thing is, since most of the stuff is passive anyways, the difference aint big :D

[spice hornet]

rogue shadow dance literal has no cooldown

its unbelievable

[wheat crane]

Its kinda true

[simple rock]

imagine just cheapshotting 3 people off dr

cuz you have 2 steps and hook

[copper hare]

imagine a world where they would kidney 2 people at the same time, that would be unreal

oh wait..

[simple rock]

gone now

that was cursed yea

or vanish dr kidney on trinket

like what

[copper hare]

here is the thing about class design in wow in my opinion. a spec can have as much utility as possible, in the end it depends on their healing or dmg output

[wheat crane]

Feel like theyre nerfing all this warrior stuff to buff mastery or bleeds or some shit

[copper hare]

look at holy priest, holy priest had this much utility for years, but they became broken with tier set and crazy raw hps

[wheat crane]

So the dmg will overall be the same

Just shifted around

[copper hare]

same with outlaw, they can have all this cd reduce and utility, but in the end they're broken because they literally do more dmg than a fury

[simple rock]

eh kinda depends. I think SP right now has a good mix of both

their dmg isn't the most insane and you don't play them for urst

burst

but their util is unmatched

[wheat crane]

Spriest kinda melts you tho lol

[copper hare]

sp has crazy burst, but sp also has a lot of hard counters, it's not like their gods currently

[wheat crane]

Spits out all sorts of purple shit

Then u die for some reason while they fade run away

[simple rock]

compare SP burst to ret, demo, aff, sub, assa

it's not even close

mm

[wheat crane]

I mean yea lol

[copper hare]

Idk, I've seen sp bursting for 14-15k dps

[wheat crane]

Rets a wheelchair spec on a cd timer

[copper hare]

ret is not as bad as it was in season s1/s2 specially since the hp pools got higher

I don't think I've faced a single ret in 2s even

[wheat crane]

I was hitting the same final verdict crits in like s2 lol

[copper hare]

you mean the same numbers exactly? :D

[wheat crane]

Yea im not kidding lol

30-35k final verdicts

[copper hare]

s2 was crazy when they could just global you in a blind with holy dmg and you could do nothing about that

[wheat crane]

I think i still have the screenshots

[copper hare]

Right now they seem kinda ok, I don't mind facing rets at all.

I take everything right now over double lock

[simple rock]

just don't like how ret warr is still the best warr comp

for 4 seasons straight

very boring

[wheat crane]

Warr mage/spriest pumped s1

[simple rock]

yea I played with mage

that was super fun

unless you fought tsg

then it was go next

[copper hare]

I just despise melee cleaves in general. I play so bad and braindead

I actually use my brain playing with a caster instead

[wheat crane]

I do lowkey hate playing melee cleaves too

Mixed are usually where i feel most comfortable

[copper hare]

thunder gonna be real good aswell I feel like

ele has crazy dmg rn

[simple rock]

thunder is solid

but you just get fucked up by melee cleaves

ele/lock has the pressure to make them run

usually ret warr can just mongo whole game if they trade well

[copper hare]

Idk Kyrian arms thunder prolly really good into melee cleaves

i dont think fury works, you have nothing but dmg basically

[simple rock]

spearing defensively is good in thunder

did that in s2 a lot

[copper hare]

also duel is insane for thunder

[simple rock]

but most eles would rather just play with broken ass lock specs and get free rating

[copper hare]

I played some at like 2k mmr last week and it felt awesome, but we auto lost to aff lock teams

with disc though

[simple rock]

playing with disc feels so bad as ele

every time I q with disc on ele we oom and lose unless I proc a lot

[copper hare]

all about cd management as disc

a lot of priests that swapped from holy to disc now just try to get away with raw healing and it just doesnt work

[simple rock]

yeah I just play with whoever on my ele at 2k ish

they don't know how to get drinks ever

[copper hare]

man not gonna be able to play until monday, I really hope mmr is fixed properly

winning 10 games and only gaining like 80 mmr felt awful

[sand shadow]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1571190053?t=03h22m53s

I have so much respect for that warrior

[elder wigeon]

this just in, outlaw is extremely overloaded

[sharp meteor]

I'm nearly at the point where I'm just tagging them and leaving to save myself the 5-10 minutes

[steep inlet]

We go like 15-20 nerfs

On alpha

:(

[copper hare]

and the ridiculous thing is that lfg healers think there is a chance to win vs outlaw rogues as war. I had some that left after having 10 min games and losing vs outlaws

"how cant you kill anything" I dont know, maybe facing an r1 outlaw and I have like 5 sec uptime between kidney, disarm, gouge, vanish, evasion?

[elder wigeon]

yeah you shouldn't ever win into outlaws

probably a 95-5 odds matchup with that disparity being outlaws hard inting

[copper hare]

I only won vs a couple outlaws playin with prot pally in 2s

[elder wigeon]

with that being said if you're way way way better than the outlaw, there's more wiggle room in that ratio

arms is a looot better than fury into outlaws though

I'd probably say 85-15 for that

[copper hare]

my favorite part about average lfg healers: almost anyone instantly trinkets blind for no reason even though everyone is on 100%

[stuck karma]

My favorite part is getting declined

[lean burrow]

my favorite part is logging in, realizing I still need to farm gear, log out

[sage raptor]

Yeahhhhh

That doesn't make me want to log out.

[fickle forge]

Shit's not even out, and they already nerf every talent imagineable 👀

And ability

Only positive thing is

[steep inlet]

Yep we got massively nerfed

This night

In pure numbers

While mage got mass new ups and spells

We cannot fight this lobby

[elder wigeon]

I am now not even confident arms will be better than fury again

[warped warren]

surely

if arms is unplayable in df

ill prob quit

[elder wigeon]

i mean arms isn't unplayable now but it's pretty shit

[wheat jay]

Arms in df was crazy strong in terms of dmg output

And stop crying as if it was fucking final when y'all have 0 idea how tuning for any class or spec will look like

Smh

[warped warren]

shut up artji

🤣

[high sparrow]

Tuning damage is fine, but when they do absolutely idiotic mechanical nerfs like massacre to 25%, is when i lose hope

A lot of the class tree talents feel absolutely garbage to take now cos they do so little

[wheat jay]

Good, fuck massacre

Make execute an execute again

[high sparrow]

nice, enjoying spending a talent point on an extra 5% execute, and many others on talents that feel even worse

[wheat jay]

It is what it is, cant have every talent be broken

[high sparrow]

clearly havent seen the rogue tree i suppose

[warped warren]

🤣

[fickle forge]

Gotta deal with what we have though

[elder wigeon]

i just want shadowlands to be over at this point

[fickle forge]

Nothing else to it

Massacre in itself isn't that healthy of a mechanic

Can live without it

[warped warren]

why put it in with 5% value

might aswell just remove

[wheat jay]

remember that aoe execute thing from shadowlands alpha?

that would be a nice talent

[fickle forge]

Was the same in Legion

[warped warren]

🤷‍♂️

didnt play arms in legion

or warrior for that matter

gg

[fickle forge]

35% exe has always been a problem in terms of design

[high sparrow]

exactly

[high sparrow]

my problem is what eto said