pvp

[near delta]

It's technically aoe

[sand shadow]

good question

I think mb? Because it's an area effect? And priests' dome works on it?

Haven't tested it, though

[warped warren]

should prob work

[sand shadow]

oh yeah, this reminds me, from the "the-more-you-know" rubric, rogues vanishing your spears are actually stuck

I saw some warrs on stream apparently not knowing that

[warped warren]

yeah

lmao

[sand shadow]

you just wait out the vanish immunity/conduit shield and you can get them out

they're still there

imagine if that dogshit conduit never was added to the game

[sharp meteor]

Yes, three second vanish leeway.

[shy aurora]

So we can farm full gear now?

[sand shadow]

yep

[simple rock]

how degenerate can you be

is the only question

[sand shadow]

thats why uncapping conq was the biggest bs ever

idgaf if my ilvl is 100, 200, or 2000, so long as my opponents are the same ilvl

[wheat crane]

Honestly youre right

[sand shadow]

now that its uncapped, I am forced to catch-up, else be at a disadvantage

[wheat crane]

They shoulda just made the cap like 1500 everyweek

Wouoda been the same shit with less degeneracy

[sand shadow]

it's almost completely irrelevant. Yes, some specs scale better w/ more gear, sure, but frankly that's one "bonus" i could've done without

[near delta]

Even 3000 conq as the cap woulda been fine

[sand shadow]

much rather just log on, Q, get the conq/honor passively, and upgrade alongside everyone else

[wary heart]

lmao i aint doing this shit

[wheat crane]

True really doesn't matter what the actual # is

[wary heart]

also im facing 278ilvl scum rogues that are still unkillable at any ilvl

[wheat crane]

Just prevents completely no lifing a full pvp set

[sand shadow]

it goes absolutely counter to what PvPers have wanted as early as 2005, and i know because I was part of that voice

[wheat crane]

500 a week was just too low in a short season

[sand shadow]

you want an even playing field, that's it

gear wise

[wheat crane]

^

[sand shadow]

everything else is annoying BS

[wheat crane]

Even playing field but no fucking legion style templates

[sand shadow]

idk, I liked templates, sucky as they were, they had many advantages

[wheat crane]

Unless theyre customizable then w/e

I remember the dh one was like 2 worst stats lol

[sand shadow]

thing is, w/ a template

that gives you a baseline as a developer

and you can easily build on top

if DH's template was poop, that could've been changed/buffed

[full quiver]

i want to hit max level

[spice hornet]

i swear to GOD rated battlegrounds are more likely to be the 3 MoP ones

[nimble jasper]

non outlaw is easy kill

[full quiver]

immediately be able to queue with same gear as everyone else

[sand shadow]

but you kept the advantages offered by the system, such as a relatively no-frills entry into higher end pvp

[spice hornet]

mop/cata

[nimble jasper]

idk undergeared rogues are easy unless its outlaw

[sand shadow]

nothing about killing rogues is easy imo

[full quiver]

i never go rogue as fury

[nimble jasper]

at low mmr they just fold

cuz most of them are bad

[sand shadow]

I am meeting legit meatheads off the reroll factory floor, just like my alt, that are giving me WAY too much trouble

[nimble jasper]

why they are at low mmr

[sand shadow]

that's the real trouble for me

[full quiver]

i start on them and if they evasion a 4pc proc

i'll go them

[sand shadow]

I shouldn't have to struggle with ya, lil fella, but gl learning rogue

[full quiver]

otherwise i just pve healer lol

[nimble jasper]

i imagine if you play hunter tho

reroll rogues

are just free pts

lmfao

[sand shadow]

point is

I shouldn't have to develop an entirely new strat into outlaws

[full quiver]

don't have to imagine

🙂

[nimble jasper]

sin is pretty easy to kill imo

[sand shadow]

and have to wait for 50%+ damp

to win them

[full quiver]

although i was really tired yesterday

and tried to kill sin rogue

when they had MW healer

[sand shadow]

because, and I'm sorry if this comes across as ego-tripping, but I am just much better at the game than them

[full quiver]

6 min game MW is legit at 95% mana

and my rdruid is oom

lol

[sand shadow]

why should I sit a 6min game into them?

[nimble jasper]

i mean its not

[sand shadow]

its annoying.

[nimble jasper]

i’ve had to play 5min outlaw mirrors

into shit players

cuz they just

cc me randomly

[sand shadow]

yeah

[nimble jasper]

also not human

so i sit longwr

[sand shadow]

and did you feel like that game is correspondent to the skill level/xp delta between you two?

Probably not. You prolly felt like you should've steamrolled

but you can't

[nimble jasper]

i doubled his dam

so no

rofl

[sand shadow]

because it's a stupid fucking design

[nimble jasper]

then he followed me behind los

and i 100-0ed him

in kidney reso

[sand shadow]

yes

and THAT is the type of players you have to wait out dampening for

which is precisely my point

shit is fucking unpunishable

[nimble jasper]

its happened less now that cdr lego

is gone

but still

psure trimaz said it once last ssn

playing shadowdust rogues in 2s

even if they’re shit

you cant kill them

but they also cant kill you

[sand shadow]

listen, this is not me flaming people w/ less XP or just learning, that's perfectly fine. All I'm saying is that me having 1487124 yrs of high-end XP should count for more. I should be able to demolish you if you randomly blind and disarm etc

[nimble jasper]

honestly

i felt similar about people who played

venthyr orc sephuz warriors

in sinful

[sand shadow]

I should be able to punish you, and you shouldn't have 5 fail-safes that carry you, that's all

[nimble jasper]

and dh players in bfa

low agency specs

that just win in enough time

[sand shadow]

oh, absolutely, it's obviously not limited to just rogues, it's just the most egregious example lately

I mean, Fury design rn is incredibly unhealthy for the game

[nimble jasper]

also one of those 5min gamrs

his healer

trinkets a dr cheap

“fuck im feeding that was dr”

[sand shadow]

yeah, and then mb you can punish, but mb it's a fucking rdudu, so you can't

[nimble jasper]

jk he trinkets hes feeding harder

[near delta]

I played legit like 20 games in BFA having no clue what I was doing with this random priest and DH

[nimble jasper]

rdruid outlaw even as outlaw

pov:not human

play 6min game

[near delta]

And this DH would just 1v3 every team after me and the healer died lmao

[sand shadow]

druid ST healing is just batshit crazy

[nimble jasper]

they would have lost in first 2mins if i was human tho

cuz that druid was really pushing it

[sand shadow]

you either swap or you never kill. Problem is, gl swapping the dudu if he knows even basic shit

[nimble jasper]

on his bash clone time

i.e if i was human he never would get the bash clone off

[sand shadow]

I had a game into a rdudu, any time he was vulnerable I'd swap, but guy was quick. Before I even got to him w/ my charge, he'd bear and pop frenzy at 99% hp. I mean why not? He does have 3 of those, and they do fucking heal for 10k/s

[nimble jasper]

🤷

now with shadowdust build gone i see alot less outlaws

but most are still terrible

[near delta]

Aff/rdruid with an aff that actually knows how to use curse of exhaustion and the amplify is brutal af

[nimble jasper]

also i swear alot of rdruids who q with wizards or hunters

have 0 awareness

of whats going on

[sand shadow]

My healer said omg omg omg just swap him no hots, guy goes bear, presses his 40s bark, and w/ banner and full fucking CDs, I get him down to 78% from full

fucking immortal class into melee

[gusty zinc]

im gonna lose my shit if i keep queing into rogue, affliction, windwalker

[nimble jasper]

i played dno once

and hes infinitely tankier playing cat aff

than 90% of guardian sitting rdruids

p funny tbh

had a friend say if you q into kubzy rdru in 2s

just afk

not worth it

[sand shadow]

and if them being immortal in bear to a warrior wasn't enough, I simply can't tell you HOW. MANY. KILLS. i've forgone into rdudus just because his fucking tree procs

and once that shit procs

it doesn't matter, at least in 2s

guy is living, better luck next time

[nimble jasper]

only class i can consistently gib rdruids on

is monk i think

cuz incap sweep out of form

if he gets bear off

[near delta]

There's nothing ww can't isntagib

[nimble jasper]

go is bricked

[sand shadow]

I mean that makes sense, these are specs vulnerable to overwhelming dmg only

[wary heart]

i dont think ion's stepped foot into an arena since tbc

[nimble jasper]

i wanted to just leave game once

when lfg healer

breaks incap

and he got bear off

zzzzz

[near delta]

Even outlaw can die pretty consistently just cause evasion usually isn't back up by the next sweep

[nimble jasper]

you just

cant stack with healer

and you peel ww when he goes

[sand shadow]

we don't fucking need Ion to step foot into arena. We need him to make up his fucking mind. Do you want an eSports out of Arena? Yes? Okay, then hire at least one single human being that goes and leaves the studio having worked on PvP

it's literally that simple

just 1 guy

9to5

pvp

just go ahead and look at the last AWC cup

custom hype cinematics

guest casters

a fuckton of work done by admins etc

[gusty zinc]

are people running crit or haste on arms nowadays

[sand shadow]

all the while the devs themselves have barely moved their finger pvp wise

[gusty zinc]

this season

[sand shadow]

there's an insane disconnect

[simple rock]

any combination of the 3

all crit probably the worst though

[gusty zinc]

wait whats the third

[nimble jasper]

warrior 2s in general

besides the dogshit design of fury atm

wheres its like an idiotproof dh

[simple rock]

well combo of 2. all haste or mix or all crit

you could honestly go heavy mastery as arms too

it's not bad

[sand shadow]

People have been trying out full mastery builds @gusty zinc

Especially in 2s, the reason it works is because you can try to burst someone

since nobody is allowing you extended uptime anyway

and there's jackshit you can do about that 95% of the time

[gusty zinc]

is mastery a safe bet right now? or is it only good at 1 shotting someone basically

[sand shadow]

If you can slap somebody for a 45k exe into a 35k MS, that's incredibly valuable in 2s specifically

just 3 globals

[full quiver]

Affli in 2s is fuckint aids

[nimble jasper]

also so many hunters

[gusty zinc]

this easier to do with mastery or crit

[nimble jasper]

are lost when you slam heavy damage into them

[sand shadow]

@gusty zinc Mastery can't be bad as it is designed rn

[nimble jasper]

from the second gates open

[sand shadow]

even if you want to stack something else, mastery is mastery

its good no matter what

[wheat crane]

Bro lay off the pvp intern hes doing his best

[gusty zinc]

is mastery build still running the crushing blow legendary

[sand shadow]

yeah sure, why not

[nimble jasper]

i’ve been saying tho that shit like current fury warrior

[full quiver]

Lol

[nimble jasper]

sin rogue in general

dh

[sand shadow]

can always unhinged if you want to meme more etc

[nimble jasper]

bm hunter

[full quiver]

I left pillar maybe 3x

[nimble jasper]

all awful designs

[wheat crane]

Kick fucking drain you mongoloid

[nimble jasper]

also i’ve played with that hpal once

he kind of sucks

[full quiver]

Yeah no shit

[sharp meteor]

Surv complaining about literally anything in 2s need to be beaten with a rusty pipe.

[nimble jasper]

[full quiver]

Apparently I need to not only afk myself at pillar but afk pet

Then just push in at 60% damp

Fun gameplay

[gusty zinc]

is unhinged really just a meme or is it actually competitive

dont see it anywhere

[sand shadow]

in 2s? It can be really good actually

sadly.

[gusty zinc]

sadly?

[sand shadow]

yeah, sadly

[gusty zinc]

why is that lol

[sand shadow]

because it's stupid

[nimble jasper]

its a degen design

using your bs for dam

[sand shadow]

how about, instead, they bring chad BS and just remove unhinged, huh?

you'll see in wotlk classic

what chad BS used to be like

[nimble jasper]

got a arpen dbw proc

we going in

[sand shadow]

it actually felt like a final talent

now its like... wtv

[wheat crane]

What was that armor pen trinket in wraththat shit was busted af

[nimble jasper]

dbw

[sand shadow]

DBW yea

[gusty zinc]

shadowlands is sadly my first pvp xpac

[sand shadow]

ah well, then you're used to soyboi Bladestorm

:<

[nimble jasper]

[gusty zinc]

i just wanna play arms lmfao

[nimble jasper]

play 3s

[gusty zinc]

yeh

[nimble jasper]

arms 2v2 is a recipe for mald

[full quiver]

Bladestorming Cc feels awesome

[nimble jasper]

i swear

[gusty zinc]

arms seems kinda unplayable in 2s

[wheat crane]

Think wrath was my first 2500, i was on hpal healing a warrior with that and shadowmourne in tsg

[full quiver]

Melee that aren't rogues **

[wheat crane]

Always remember your first homies

[nimble jasper]

its not bad but once you q into rogues or hunters

[nimble jasper]

survival player

HMMMMM

[full quiver]

Let's be honest

It's a ranged spec

Lmao

[nimble jasper]

with a 15s cd kick

yeah

[full quiver]

Lol

[craggy socket]

Hey guys whats a good frame of reference for the burst window....like I charge in, stormbolt, pop banner, reck and go ham or is there a better way?

[full quiver]

Well first off

[craggy socket]

or charge in with a bloodthirst?

[full quiver]

You don't want to use your mobility right before go

[craggy socket]

or chance at enrage

[full quiver]

You want to have it available once you start go

[simple rock]

run in mounted

in general

[nimble jasper]

hamstring

[craggy socket]

Ah ok for when they run in fear of my mighty damage

so charge, bloothirst and a hamstring go hard?

[nimble jasper]

no so you dont get cc’ed and kited instantly

on your damage

[full quiver]

You want to mount until you're on them normally

[near delta]

Hamstring is the worst part of fury tbh

Really annoying keeping it up with slaughterhouse

[nimble jasper]

i had a guy charge me with his cds and no hamstring once on pirate

so i just hooked out of los

[near delta]

Lol

[nimble jasper]

proceeds to leap behind it with me

proceeds to lose half his defensives being stunned behind a pillar

[near delta]

I only charge opener like DHs in 2s with warbringer to get them to maybe throw their blur quicker

[nimble jasper]

while healer on other side of map

yeah dhs blur for no reason

so dumb

[craggy socket]

i love that you said on pirate lol

[near delta]

The ones who actually hold it for cds are a nightmare

[craggy socket]

Do I use banner before reck?

[sand shadow]

nah, you want your maintenance buffs on global up and running before you storm, gives you more time for whacking

[nimble jasper]

i played genji once

[sand shadow]

always banner into reck, reck is oGCD

[nimble jasper]

its actually annoying af playing r1 dhs

[craggy socket]

Ohh cool ty

[nimble jasper]

they just instant kite on any dam

[sand shadow]

if you reck and then banner, you'll find yourself that sometimes you're GCD blocked

[near delta]

Yeah

[nimble jasper]

also the few times i’ve played petkick

his damgur

monka

[sand shadow]

to be perfectly frank with ya, I don't even open w/ a BT. Frankly, depending on what I meet, I might not even bother w/ a hamstring, but that comes w/ experience

I just start building rage insta, which means RB

[nimble jasper]

every game depends

on what happens

[nimble jasper]

its a funny spec to play

also allows you to punish people who do bad plays hard as shit

[sand shadow]

you can absolutely tell that pirate is a new age spec design

it can do and has so much more

I guess DH is a counter example from that, because they wanted a newbie class

[nimble jasper]

kick healer like a soccer ball cuz 8yd range

gouge off

continue killing dps

yeah dh is uhh….

lol

[sand shadow]

it continues to amaze me how much of a diff 3yds extra make as a melee btw

on my altlul

[hasty crane]

They are actually making world PVP viable in Dragonflight

[nimble jasper]

some get good pre glimpse

and shit

[nimble jasper]

lost count how many times

a mage has tried to frost nova sheep me

and still in kick range

[sand shadow]

its like cheating to me, because I mostly play my warrior

its so insanely good

[nimble jasper]

its going to 10 yds

[sand shadow]

what

[nimble jasper]

in dragonbofa

🙂

[sand shadow]

excuse me

what

..........

[near delta]

How?

[nimble jasper]

theres a talent that extends it 2 yds during flurry

[sand shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/saywhat-huh-confused-iamconfused-youlyin-gif-22766635

ah, during flurry

well thats aids still

[nimble jasper]

also 8yd range is on the general rogue tree now

so all 3 specs have it

[sand shadow]

considering yo ucan flurry forever

[craggy socket]

oof

Rogues always get the best

[near delta]

Holy fuck whay

[nimble jasper]

yeah its on the gen rogue tree

[sand shadow]

yeah i swa, they also got garrotes and gouge, but that was first tree

no clue if they changed since

[nimble jasper]

you also get double step as all specs

from the current look of things

[near delta]

Outlaw with shadowdance is gonna be fucked lol

[sand shadow]

do you also get the CDR if party step? Or the range increase from the condi?

Those two are absolutely batshit insane

but frankly, its 2 dances that CDR that piss me the fuck off

[hasty crane]

Made a vendor with specific currency that comes from world PVP and it's tier sets and stuff with PVP stats and bonuses on them

[craggy socket]

It does seem like every class is looking insane lol

[nimble jasper]

its not reduced by cdr, dance anymore

[sand shadow]

I had a game into a sub/priest, both play pretty well, game ends like 5.5min later

[near delta]

That's amazing!

[nimble jasper]

the condi exists but smaller version

since not max ilvl anymore

[sand shadow]

I check the # of dances, he legit had 29.9s CD on dance

when averaged over the entire game

which is basically equal to dance every go

[nimble jasper]

outlaw no longer gets cdr on dance

but cdr reduces dreadblades cd

[sand shadow]

since DRs are ~24s as Rogue

[nimble jasper]

which can lead to more burst

[sand shadow]

and there is always stuff on average happening that slightly delays goes

every go, shadow dance

fucking insanity

[nimble jasper]

theres also shit i swear newer people dont do

like bladerush and hook kick

[sand shadow]

what

i love doing that

but my fav is

hook into drive-by gouge

you can actually do it rofl

[nimble jasper]

rat was going on about how

[sand shadow]

whilst moving w/ the hook

[nimble jasper]

optimal position vs melee healer is like a circle

[sand shadow]

you hook to target X and gouge Y on the way there

[nimble jasper]

where you are in kick range of healer

[sand shadow]

[nimble jasper]

but also hitting dps

alot of class trees looking nuts tbh

ww tree is umm…

[craggy socket]

Affliction warlocks how tf can I even compete with them atm

[sand shadow]

yeah thats what I wanted to say earlier before getting sidetracked

useless trying to envision whats good or not

[nimble jasper]

ww getting teachings of the monastery interesting

[sand shadow]

since every spec is getting like x30 levels

of power

[nimble jasper]

bok can full reset rsk cd

also serenity might be default now

[sand shadow]

watching zhrey on 2nd monitor (not even watching tbh)

and i see this just now

fucking monkaW

[craggy socket]

What rating is everyone at now? Even super low cr is feelin' sweaty as fuck

[nimble jasper]

means DF ww doesnt get instant cucked

by any mage

with 1 braincell

might b good

[sand shadow]

@craggy socket you can thank Blizzard for that. Uncapped Conq means many people just decided to skip RBGs because RBGs are RBGs, and just ultra tanked their 2s MMR for quick wins to farm conq/honor

[nimble jasper]

pop sef?

[craggy socket]

Ah

[nimble jasper]

here db images

or root them

gg your damage

[craggy socket]

Affliction warlocks are doing more damage than everyone combined...

[sharp meteor]

Everybody bricking mmr to farm conq.

[sand shadow]

well, how about they just go back to a normal WW design then @nimble jasper

you know, they DO have the blueprint for that

[near delta]

I don't know what I'm going to do about all those extra keybinds lol

[sand shadow]

both Legion/BFA monk played awesomely

was enjoyable to play AND viable

instead of being legit forced into one shotting stuff or bust

@near delta wdym, so many keybinds avialable, you'll just have to get used to it for a day or two

I once counted the # of prime keybinds available when you factor in modifiers

nobody needs that many

[near delta]

I have a super specific setup right now with my g600 so I'll have to rework stuff a good bit prob

[sand shadow]

you have like 80 or so PRIME (ergonomically speaking, even small hands) binds w/o counting mouse

I'll have to dig out the reddit post I made on that topic, but it's true

everything on your mouse is an extra anyway

[near delta]

Your redit posts are insane btw

Yeah I just never got used to using keyboard binds

[sand shadow]

and by PRIME and ergonomically sound binds I Mean stuff that is actually pleasant to press

[near delta]

Except for big utility

[sand shadow]

not weird stuff like alt+Z

[near delta]

Or certain other things

[sand shadow]

its not a terrible combo, but it's defo not a prime bind

[nimble jasper]

i prefer mop/wod monk

[craggy socket]

So yall basically just play all the melee specs too?

[nimble jasper]

but yeah no one likes keefers dance of chiji onetap playstyle

[sand shadow]

so not 80, but 65

prime real estate level keybinds

a few more if you like pressing 6

[nimble jasper]

havent played enh

[sand shadow]

depends on kbd/hand size

[nimble jasper]

because i dont like being locked into playing turbo

[sand shadow]

nah, and besides you don't need to multiclass to be good at your own spec

[nimble jasper]

ww enh is a funny as shit comp tho

[near delta]

Enh was the first spec I seriously tried to focus on and only playing with low mmr warriors was actually hell

[sand shadow]

I only play my warr, hunter, rogue. I have some higher end XP on WW Monk and something on my resto dudu. Mostly played all these to learn

[nimble jasper]

for me the worst

was playing with low mmr mages

on rogue

actual tilt central

mage learning curve is pretty large

bad mages are just useless and good mages

comedically broken class

[near delta]

It was s1 sl fotm central

[nimble jasper]

monk just gets eaten alive

by rogues who are half decent

altho its funny as shit ringing self vs bad rogue teams

who sap healer with no pre cc

[craggy socket]

I can attest to this lOL

[sand shadow]

its just a spec that is stupidly vulnerable to dmg/control profiles like rogues'

it's actually well designed into other sustain melees

[nimble jasper]

ehh

monk needs to run alot

or just dies to sustain dam

[sand shadow]

sure, but his win condition is a 1min CD anyway

idk, w/ how ww is now, w/ a dope healer, they can defo brawl me nowadays

[nimble jasper]

i find monk dmg really easy to stop

relative to other melee

[simple rock]

if you play the game inbetween sweeps as monk you're trolling tbh

[near delta]

I was really hoping necro keefers wouldn't go on to df

[simple rock]

legit should just afk

[nimble jasper]

since theres several gcds telegraphing his go

[sand shadow]

WW absolutely needs healer support/cross CC to make its shit work

[nimble jasper]

ye you cant

[near delta]

Playing like a sub rogue just feels bad

[sand shadow]

WW today is a lot like sub today tbf

[simple rock]

everyone tries to in 2s even high rated

[nimble jasper]

except sub can go every 30s

[sand shadow]

you needn't play unless you have a go

[simple rock]

tthe best 2s players just don't interact with offensive cds ever

[sand shadow]

and that doesn't actually lower your odds of success

[nimble jasper]

idk why tyga doesnt believe

in dance of chiji build

anymore

[sand shadow]

its a troll expansion anyway

tyga fucking spent the last 2 yrs

honing his oneshot ability

everything else was secondary

[nimble jasper]

[sand shadow]

I mean, I can't blame him too much, since that's his main win condition

[nimble jasper]

yeah

[sand shadow]

but I also think that monks doing 0 inbetween goes

are also being silly

[nimble jasper]

you can do some but basically run

the second other guy

has any damage

[sand shadow]

yeah but that's basically the motto of the expansion

if enemy person has stuff

you run/delay/control

[nimble jasper]

unless you’re shadowdust outlaw

and have more evasions

than enemy team has offensive cds

[sand shadow]

ony my warrior, I have big dam every 1.5m minimum

you don't need to jerk it all that time

[nimble jasper]

tell that to convoke ferals

[sand shadow]

I mean, nobody is forcing them to play convoke, it's a choice they made

[nimble jasper]

yeah just funny watching them

basically run away do 0 damage

as soon as it ends

[sand shadow]

fun fact, if you stack on convoke and your friend immunes in any way, the game considers it as if you're solo

so do not do at home

lost to a fucking backpeddling convoker feral because of that, didn't know

[nimble jasper]

[sand shadow]

wanna know who the first and highest at the time hpal was to get 2.1k on EU this ssn?

guy was legit backpeddling, but by that I don't mean just the occasional backpeddle

I mean.all.the.time

[nimble jasper]

not reece?

[sand shadow]

know what his partner was?

A TROLL

ASSA

ROGUE

I mean troll race assa rogue

[nimble jasper]

yeah yikes

[sand shadow]

they played blessing of summer

and both were obviously clueless pvers

but it worked, so 🙂

[nimble jasper]

surprised it wasnt

[sand shadow]

guy presses vendetta

[nimble jasper]

reeceboss

[sand shadow]

and the fucking servers melt from the dmg

wdym, Reece is good

[nimble jasper]

first 2.1 hpal

[sand shadow]

oh

hpal is fucking ROUGH this ssn

you need either a very good WW

or a very good outlaw

early on, that is

[nimble jasper]

did druids get buffed

or something

or just hpriest nerf

[sand shadow]

my healer is an hpala main and we main warr/hpala, this go around I told him to log his dudu

[nimble jasper]

indirectly makes more come out

[sand shadow]

snagged the ez 2.1k

I logged my outlaw for his hpal

etc

[nimble jasper]

outlaw hpal prob good its just

prob worse than outlaw mw

[sharp meteor]

hpal/warr feels nice into non-hunters

[nimble jasper]

or rdruid

[sand shadow]

that's not the point tho, is it

[sharp meteor]

domes every fury mirror because bop disarm/bolt

[sand shadow]

point is, we're far more experienced and actually play better

[nimble jasper]

yeah ww hpal has always

[sand shadow]

and spam lose into stuff

[nimble jasper]

felt good

true

[sand shadow]

literally in the starting room

[nimble jasper]

anytime i see hpal assa or sub

i just assume

[sand shadow]

wanna know how we beat triimaz and his 3s dudu?

[nimble jasper]

summer cheesers

[sand shadow]

dudu legit got bored sitting at pillar

and I gangbanged him in 1 bop

100 to 0

[nimble jasper]

[sand shadow]

because he legit came to us

out of boredom

nothing else

[nimble jasper]

xdddd

ngl bop cucks outlaw so hard

if no priest

cant cc

[sand shadow]

sure, its fucking strong, problem is 98% of teams have a dispel for it

[nimble jasper]

yeah i agree

[sand shadow]

and pala has nonexistent dispel protection

and you have 2 goes

[nimble jasper]

outlaw rdru one of the few comps

[sand shadow]

if they understand what you're trying to do

there's just no way

[nimble jasper]

that doesnt have a purge

it seems

[sand shadow]

its only people that fall asleep at the wheel at that mmr

we legit just

do 1 bop go w/ banner/everything

and then another

if we don';t kill, we lose

thats it

[nimble jasper]

but yeah you just lose that matchup if druid played away

xd

[sand shadow]

rest of the time, I am just trying to slow down triimaz

and not eat dmg

[nimble jasper]

you just eventually lose

[sand shadow]

so pala can go full livelord

[nimble jasper]

while he prob sits pala with flurry on

i imagine

[sand shadow]

meanwhile his dudu is drinking at 98% mana and is never closer than 40yds, ever

because their comp doesn't require him to be

[nimble jasper]

yeah outlaw rdru always feels like

if rdruid doesnt feed

you just dont lose

[sand shadow]

but by feed

you mean

REALLY

REALLY FUCKING FEED

[nimble jasper]

yeah

[sand shadow]

like literally deathwish levels of feed

that is assuming competent and xp'd players ofc

at lower mmr everything is possible

[nimble jasper]

like rdruids who walk into sub hpriest teams

to get kidney booned

🙂

out of form

[sand shadow]

proc penance on me

like... a week ago

I made sure to count it

32.4K

1 penance

the ascended blast and SWD were just a bonus

complete insanity imo but wtv

might have been + Schism, don't remember

[craggy socket]

do i ever use slam?

[sand shadow]

but set proc + castigation + leggo proc penance

[craggy socket]

seems kinda pointless

[sand shadow]

is just borked

as Fury? Never

As Arms? Yes

[craggy socket]

okty

[sand shadow]

can safely remove from bars as Fury

[craggy socket]

is arms better in 3s

[sand shadow]

never ever press that

warrior is better in 3s

whether fury or arms

warrior in 2s is pain

[nimble jasper]

speaking of feed

[craggy socket]

Coolio

[nimble jasper]

https://www.twitch.tv/zxcrat/clip/CogentDelightfulCrocodileBibleThump-FMKsE4TAUnv46qv7 @sand shadow

i mean shit like this

[sand shadow]

haha yeah ive seen it

he posted it on twitter a while back

[nimble jasper]

yeah

also the bicmex dying through 94% sac

clip

its more interesting with priest but i swear

outlaw rdru never dies

[sharp meteor]

i like hearing my teammate be like

pre-bm/wall im fine

[sand shadow]

ofc it doesn't, you have the two specs that are immortal in a 2v2 setting

[sharp meteor]

OKAY TRINKETING

[sand shadow]

the outlaw can solo live, the rdudu can rely on the pirate to peel forever

[nimble jasper]

like i swear only time that comp dies

is rdruid finding a way

to hardcore feed

[sand shadow]

dudu then proceeds to sit 40yds+ and spam drink, knowing his ST healing is unpenetrateable

[nimble jasper]

unless you q into

[sand shadow]

only thing that can kill them is sth like WW monk or RM

[nimble jasper]

surv rdruid

then maybe

[sand shadow]

that can legit cross CC and gib sth in 2-3s

[nimble jasper]

late bust last 2 secs of kidney

erase 70% of someones hp

[sand shadow]

the special

thankfully, mages overall avoid 2s

so very few do late busts

[nimble jasper]

ngl good rogue mages dont do 2s it seems unless

“bored waiting for priest to log”

[sand shadow]

it is what it is

[nimble jasper]

reminds me once in unchained playing a rogue mage on ww

where they won if rogue just

didnt come out till his trinket was back

rando comes out

???

loses

[sand shadow]

they should ban sub from being nelf in 2s

I can't handle that shit

[nimble jasper]

its cringe

they won the game

if rogue just sat in stealth

for 15 more secs

killing a mage who still has his caut nice meme

[sand shadow]

playing a godlvl spec does that to people's brains

they do dumb AF shit because they're so used to being a literal arena god

[small silo]

Do we use the 5% speed gem or the 13 speed for every shadowlands or both of them ?

[sand shadow]

can't tell you how often a Rogue will remain for one last go if he has CDs after his friend is dead

I never even think of that as a warrior in 2s

there's simply no way in hell

[sand shadow]

complex question

[nimble jasper]

i feel like

rogue and ww

[sand shadow]

5% speed gem is affected by slows (never personally tested myself, but believe), 13speed per gem isn't

[nimble jasper]

both can

but rogue moreso

[sand shadow]

13 speed also depends on how many other sockets you have

• speed rating DRs incredibly fast

[nimble jasper]

some teams if a person doesnt have trinket and wall you can 100% run around vivify behind los

[sand shadow]

comes a point where flat % movement is far superior

[nimble jasper]

till sweep is back

[small silo]

full sockets

[nimble jasper]

can you even speed dr in pvp

since terts are disabled

[sand shadow]

ye it drs

no, tertiaries are not disabled when its enchants and gems

[nimble jasper]

i’ve had it dr in pve quick cuz i had speed pieces

[sand shadow]

if its a warforged tertiary

[nimble jasper]

oh yeah that

[sand shadow]

its disabled

[nimble jasper]

is what i meant

[sand shadow]

like how i got Leech on my 2h off vault this ssn

completely worthless

[nimble jasper]

i dont think it should dr off just

[sand shadow]

which is actually good, thank god

[nimble jasper]

a speed cloak enchant

and crafted ring

[sand shadow]

nah

but when you do it like me

[nimble jasper]

usually around the 15% mark

or higher

[sand shadow]

which was speed ring + speed neck + 3 speed gems + Cloak enchant

the end result is much lower than expected

sadgely

[nimble jasper]

i’ve hit speed dr in pve

whats a speed neck

[sand shadow]

the crafted neck w/ speed

you could combo it w/ the new ssn ring, for example, or vice versa

i.e. low 23x iirc ilvl neck

• 262 ring

cant 262 + 262, but you can 23x + 262

[nimble jasper]

oh you used a 230 crafted neck?

[sand shadow]

i tried it yea

[nimble jasper]

xd

[sand shadow]

would've probably ended up using it tbh

[nimble jasper]

yeah only the 262 is unique

[sand shadow]

if speed DR wasn't this brutal

fuck do I need marginally more stats for

if I can't reach you know

[nimble jasper]

idk if people just drop the speed rings this season

[sand shadow]

specifically into hunters

[nimble jasper]

with 311 rings

[sand shadow]

ehhh

probably

too close to call with those imo

no wrong choice type of deal imo

but thats my opinion

all I can say is that when I drop my speed shit, even in Oribos, I can immediately tell that I am moving perceptibly slower than before

whether that extra speed comes into play inside the arena, in a given, particular matchup, feels near impossible to tell so 🤷‍♂️

[simple rock]

@sand shadow what slot do I want leggos in this season? 2x ring?

specifically for arms if it sims different

[fickle forge]

@steep inlet In regards to earlier

[sand shadow]

its not an easy question to answer, but nothing has changed really, other than the prio being flipped. The method to that madness is to just think rationally

[steep inlet]

succ

[simple rock]

also just remembered painbringer is on waist and head lmao

but yeah still curios for signet

[sand shadow]

before, leggos were the highest ilvl pieces, so you wanted them to be on the fattest possible primary stat piece

things like chest, legs, then head, etc

[simple rock]

that's weird though because everyone put it on ring

[lucid walrus]

can comfortably hit 127-133% in pve

though p sure it caps

[sand shadow]

now its the other way around

[simple rock]

is that just preference for more haste?

on murlok.io at least

[sand shadow]

I personally completely disagree with that approach, but that's just me, but yes, it was a haste preference

[wary heart]

no thought only haste

haste makes buttons hit faster

hit buttons faster is faster damage

[sand shadow]

specifically because leggos allow you to 50/50 the secondaries

and PvP rings are heavily versa as you know

so if you felt like you were overdoing it on the versa front (which was quite possible)

you wanted to dump some versa into something else, etc

reality is, end of the day, these are such tiny, tiny, tiny differences

overthinking it won't make you more successful

[simple rock]

yeah if it's not a tangible difference I won't bother

[sand shadow]

it really isn't

[simple rock]

my server has fucked up leggo prices sometimes

[sand shadow]

quite frankly, I won't bother thinking about my leggos for a while I expect

[simple rock]

and i've really spent far too much gold this xpac on leggos

[wary heart]

so, diablo iv is going to have 4 seasons a year, meaning 3 month seasons

[sand shadow]

and mine are not even close to what even I consider optimal

my unity is on bracers or some shit

[wary heart]

pvp and m+ will have the same i bet

[sand shadow]

have to keep in mind when theorycrafting that shit

that you are prolly also swapping leggos

and there are complications from that

for example, I needed tiered gloves to make my approach work

[nimble jasper]

3 month seaons are fine

[sand shadow]

I still don't have tiered gloves xd

[nimble jasper]

if they push out changes

[wary heart]

im currently not enjoying 3 months seasons 2 weeks in 🙂

[sand shadow]

so I just stuck w/ bracers

[lucid walrus]

legion's were about that short right

maybe a month or 2 longer

[nimble jasper]

also if they desync raid and pvp seasons

[simple rock]

https://i.imgur.com/mwEA8uz.png
SL S2 week 1 or week 2 leggo cost

[sand shadow]

because otherwise, I'd drop too much versa or whatever it was (can't remember), so I'd need to compensate w/ the PvP legs which are heavy versa, but then I didn't have those on 1 of my warriors, but had it on the other. So I just called it quits and did the most accessible thing

[nimble jasper]

cuz blizz isnt doing 3 month raid tiers

[sand shadow]

etc

[wary heart]

id have to look at legion season length

[nimble jasper]

legion had 7 seasons

[wary heart]

i dont remember

[nimble jasper]

in 2 years

so….

[wary heart]

season 1 was very long

so that makes sense

probably 3 months each

but it was really 6 month mega season with the same gear

cosmetics*

[sand shadow]

no way they do 3months imo

[nimble jasper]

if they align raid tiers

and pvp seasons

[sand shadow]

unless they split the pvp ssn from the pve one

[nimble jasper]

they wont do it

[wary heart]

s4 sl will be 3 months

if the leaks are right

[nimble jasper]

people complained this tier was too short

at 5 months

[sand shadow]

which would mean pvping for no new rewards in a new ssn, which a lot of people dislike

imo 5m is the gold standard

but thats just how i feel

[nimble jasper]

it worked in legion but yeah

[wary heart]

i like 5m

[nimble jasper]

cruel and ferocious same cosmetics

as well as the last 3

[sand shadow]

ssn lenght is one reason that I, and some others, discount the first R1 of the expansion

it almost always means less than later R1s

[simple rock]

I just wish for more frequent changes if the season lasts long

[nimble jasper]

problem is now raid/m+/pvp seasons all drop at the same time

[simple rock]

but that's never gonna happen

[sand shadow]

there are just so many issues w/ pvp as it is, ssn length is just whatever

[nimble jasper]

a raid tier will never last only 3 months

unless blizz considers it a non real tier

[wary heart]

thats true, pvp needs a lot more shit fixed than season length lmao

[sand shadow]

as it is, im frankly worried about WoW surviving at a state we're comfy w/ going into the late 2020s

they keep on focusing on refinement and shit like that

with very little vision that I can appreciate from where I am sitting at least

can't just keep on infnintely refining the fundamentals, it's a new games world out there

[willow wraith]

Wow 2 proposition?

Wowarite arenas?

[sand shadow]

I don't even think WoW 2 not happening is the issue

They're just stuck imo, forever afraid of messing w/ the basics lest they infuriate the oldies like me

[willow wraith]

What is an archaic system that needs to be removed/replaced then?

Done w builder spender

[nimble jasper]

thats a newer one

[willow wraith]

Most of the “basics” are from wow being a streamlined dungeons and dragons when it came out

Stuns fear disarm daze potions magic items enemy loot

Externals

All original concepts not made by wow or blizzard

[sand shadow]

I don't mean it like that. There's no need to mess w/ that formula too much. They can add to it/refine at will. The biggest strategic impediment to WoW nowadays imo is accessibility

[willow wraith]

Yea a new player is lost and will be almost forgot

[sand shadow]

That only makes sense in the context of the other games are that are ultra-popular now and in the past, say, 10yrds

Think of DOTA, LoL, Apex, etc, those seem plenty popular

All of these, the type of games that newcomers to gamers (kids, literally) are growing up with

[willow wraith]

But say league of legends there’s like 200 champions now how does a new player even fathom that.

[sand shadow]

What do they have in common? Easy access

[willow wraith]

Well what’s ez?

In mmo you need to level to max level

[sand shadow]

You can legit install and if you're good, you can play at the high-end

[willow wraith]

That in and of itself makes endgame non accessible

[sand shadow]

compare that with WoW, with its constantly changing rules on how much is enough for your character to reach near-parity with your opponents

[simple rock]

easy of access = being on par with everyone immediately when you install

in player power

[willow wraith]

I see too much preparation for gameplay

Yeah

Agreed

[sand shadow]

Thats why I've said in previous season (SL), that, if you think about it

the vast majority of pvpers that are dedicated pvpers

[simple rock]

in DOTA you will get rocked for 1k hrs but that's just skill diff

[sand shadow]

would probably NOT care if PvP gear was baseline 100ilv, therefore shit in PvE content

[willow wraith]

Not many want to spend hours simming or finding bis or getting their legendaries or questing for hours to obtain borrowed power

[sand shadow]

if it scaled to ilvl300 in PvP, therefore BiS in PvP content

it's not problem-free, ofc, you want to encourage people to explore other parts of the game

[nimble jasper]

they did that in legion and everyone complained

[sand shadow]

but there are many solutions to that as well

[nimble jasper]

because apparently people want to be delusional and pretend they didnt copypaste the build of their favorite streamer

[sand shadow]

point is, don't stick me w/ 1 covenant that is bis when im tanking M+, another that is BiS when i'm raid dpsing, and third still when I'm PvPing, then make it impossible to switch, introduce idiotci conduit energy that only makes that worse

and on top of it all, constrain me with mindless grinds, whether it's gear, access to leggos and QoL

or shit like renown

If I log in and want to play rated PvP, why impede me?

If I log in and want to tank M+, why impede me?

ditto for everything else

and their answer is clear at this point, and it's 2 things

#1 This is an MMO, that's how MMOs have traditionally worked, it's what people recognize as an MMO

#2 We think that by forcing you to do this crap that you fucking dislike and literally call chores, you'll play more hours per day, therefore increasing the likelihood that you'll resub, therefore increasing revenue

#1 is a bit more of a thing that I can kind of see their point, inertia is a bitch

#2, however, is completely idiotic

I would have legit played MORE in S1SL if I could M+ tank, Raid DPS AND do rated PvP

w/o being literally cov/conduit locked

I wanted to

[willow wraith]

Well this is assuming they are bringing s1/s2 slands time gated prog back

[sand shadow]

I mean, dude, my first month playing WoW was in March 2005

[willow wraith]

I quit midway through s1 because I hated those systems so much

[sand shadow]

they also said that SL will be the alt-friendly expansion

sorry if I don't put much stock in what they say

the end result, that's what matters

[nimble jasper]

rn i think its fine

besides game balance

[willow wraith]

Rn is how it should be

[nimble jasper]

and honor being

[sand shadow]

I don't think it's fine

[nimble jasper]

way too much

[sand shadow]

Honor is outrageous imo

OUTRAGEOUS

the fact that for 2 yrs straight

[nimble jasper]

honor and game balance

[willow wraith]

Like too hard to farm?

[nimble jasper]

are my only 2 issues

takes too long

[sand shadow]

not a single thing has been done to alleviate the issues w/ honor

is simply mindboggling

[willow wraith]

Yeah just need better weekly quests lol

[nimble jasper]

why not just uncap it

and do like with flux

[willow wraith]

Or uncap or tune everything to 2x honor

[nimble jasper]

where you can mail it but you lose some

[sand shadow]

to avoid having to repeat myself

[willow wraith]

There was kind of that in wrath

[sand shadow]

these are literally the 4 things I thought of on the spot

all 4, any 1 of them, would've made a huge diff

[willow wraith]

Agreed, a needless gate

[sand shadow]

Please understand that IT IS NOT NORMAL that my honor cap is LOWER than my full 2H upgrade honor cost

And now consider the fact that... I... have...

2x2handers

[willow wraith]

WTFF

That is def broken

[sand shadow]

know that really galling part?

We have ALL, ALL of us active pvpers, thrown away

MORE honor

in the trash

than we've spent in SL

simply because of that shithead cap

[simple rock]

hey man

[willow wraith]

Yea can’t save for next climb next szn

[simple rock]

I got a lot of marks of honor for transmog

[sand shadow]

I mean sure, cool, happy that ppl get marks for honor, that's perfectly fine and I support that

but idgaf about marks of honor or transmog

I know you're joking

just saying

its not rocket fucking science

[simple rock]

yeah honor is a big joke

[sand shadow]

these are not ill-considered or reckless suggestions that are completely oblivious to what designing a game as diverse and enormous as wow is

[simple rock]

really glad it's being fixed with the new system in DF

[sand shadow]

just simple, to-the-point, fixes

[willow wraith]

How so?

[simple rock]

no pvp upgrades

[sand shadow]

yeah that;s another thing, I actually spoke of that recently to a friend

[simple rock]

one set ilvl for honor set and one for conq set

[sand shadow]

it's so absolutely annoying that we KNOW that a far superior system is being introduced in DF

it will be, objectively, far better

[simple rock]

then you can upgrade conq items for pve

[wheat crane]

Thats df

[sand shadow]

but jk, you won't see that shit for 8months

in those 8months, you will suffer

[simple rock]

yes that's what i'm talking about

[sand shadow]

because we can't jUsT inTeGrAtE thIs VaSt ImProVeMent

not right now, surely not!

[willow wraith]

Hahahaha right

[nimble jasper]

whole system is cooked

cap all 3 pvp vaults

still not enough for one upgrade

[sand shadow]

so you're sat, interacting with that shit system for more than 2/3rds of the year

waiting for the better thing to come along

[nimble jasper]

win one game at duelist

bully solo shuffle

[sand shadow]

and trust me when I tell you, this has been happening consistently over the years

over the many expansions; shit like that

where a huge pain point is FINALLY BEING ADDRESSED, WAY PAST DUE, but you don't get the fix

until the new thing

which is months away

[willow wraith]

And they probably still find a way to make it cringe

[sand shadow]

so you have to suffer in silence, copium, and say shit like "well, at least in patch/expansion X or Y, it'll be better"

great.

can you blame people, then, that they alt f4 until that next patch/expansion? No, not sensibly at least

so you introduce carrots on a stick to keep people artificially hooked

instead of just giving them access to the thing that fundamentally makes them WANT to play

[willow wraith]

Azerite powers btw

Azerite gear

[nimble oyster]

Prot warrior viable as a FC?

[willow wraith]

Meh, not a guardian

[sand shadow]

@nimble oyster nothing is even close to guardian, no

its like you're legit 3 expansions behind

[nimble oyster]

Dam so I can’t push 1800rbg as Prot?