mop-discussion

[forest ibex]

Yeah dual wield has a 27% miss chance on white hits vs bosses

Dual wield increases your miss chance by 19%

[vital tapir]

i see

well its showing me a 200ish dps increase and it seems fine in details

ty for the help

[forest ibex]

You would also notice a ‘miss’ in yellow when using an attack if you were under hit

[rich hatch]

Fiery seems hotfixed already

[thin marsh]

That glyph works for Devastate???

[thin marsh]

Damn really?

How can they be aware of a weird, brand new, not even technically wrong, warrior tech... but be unaware of the bot problem?

All those DK bots in AV

ridiculous

[rich hatch]

Prob not unaware, just an internal prio system

which is absurd but ya, they tend to be pretty quick to clamp on stuff like this

[thin marsh]

God I wish I had money and influence

I would sue Blizzard into the ground for bad faith

They have in their service agreement that you can't sue them with a class action suit because they know

oh man they know

because they are selling a subscription service, they are entering into a service agreement which is a contract

and therefore is covered under contract law

and I shit you not, the legal definition of bad faith is "evasion of the spirit of the bargain, lack of diligence and slacking off, willful rendering of imperfect performance, abuse of a power to specify terms, and interference with or failure to cooperate in the other party’s performance"

You put an expensive team of lawyers in charge of a class action they will blast through that yOu CaNt ClAsS aCtIoN uS bull shit ezzzz and get every person who signs up money back on whatever year range they intend to say they were operating under bad faith.

[ocean arch]

Man wants to sue blizzard over his class getting a soft nerf

Amazing

[thin marsh]

No no no, its for everything dude

Was about to say

fuck the class action

Go big

Force the US courts to fucking get up to speed on this gaming as a service bull shit

Hearthstone is a fucking TRADING CARD GAME

THAT YOU CANT TRADE CARDS IN

My gold should be legally mine

[ocean arch]

Hilarious that the catalyst of you wanting to sue blizzard is a soft nerf to your class though

That's like peak classic spreg degeneracy ahahaha

[thin marsh]

Oh yeah

I cant deny that at all

peak af

[grand fable]

im not even convinced its a nerf lol just an unintended interraction

[thin marsh]

but its confirmed it was in classic WotLK

[ocean arch]

That's why I'm calling it a soft nerf aha

[thin marsh]

so it is a direct contradiction of what they are selling WotLK Classic as

and its all proof they are hyper aware of whats going on in the community

[ocean arch]

The no changes boat has already sailed

Too late for that

[grand fable]

blizzard dosent give a fuck. they see $

[thin marsh]

what, all it took was half a day on the reddit being meme'd for them to hotfix it?

Exactly

They know the bots are there

and they are choosing not to act so they can farm $$$

Bad

Faith

They are fucking themselves by selling WoW as a service

it creates a legal obligation

Its why ISPs just give you money back when you report service outages.

And Valve took the route of letting you gamble as a child, but at least letting you trade what you got

[ocean arch]

Did you override your Berserking enchant with fiery weapon yet

[thin marsh]

Im Prot

LOL

Im telling you though. If I had money and influence. Man. Games as a service would be dead in the water in the US courts.

Blizzard would be the killer

There is no judge that is going to rule in favor of a company that had a woman kill herself from how bad shit got there

multiple people stealing breast milk

ass slaps galore

Like, obviously the world is shit and that would never happen. But its fun to dream.

[grand fable]

they seem to be doinng perfectly fine. too big to fail

[ocean arch]

They already got ruled against for that

[thin marsh]

Yeah exactly

Another judge has already said

"Wow Blizzard, your company is fucked up"

Judges LOVE when theres other cases ongoing or recently about whatever

makes their life sooooo much easier

I dont even care if blizzard goes down

Microsoft is already buying them from last time

I want games as a service to die

[grizzled crater]

Damn that was fast. Was getting bored with dk so I boosted a warrior play around with this but it's already dead. Wish they were this fast with the rest of the bugs

[thin marsh]

WOW

So you literally paid money

to do something that was in the original game

and they removed it without warning

Sounds like bad faith to me

[grizzled crater]

Is this the primary discord for wotlk stuff?

[charred wadi]

Any enchanted fiery over their zerker only to see it getting nerfed? Xd

[normal marsh]

Hotfixed

[wide kernel]

never happening

too much cash for too little work

me too though

[hasty bloom]

Moment of silence to everyone who ripped berserker enchant off their weapons for fiery.

[void shadow]

Dang

So I was testing fury on dummies and I cannot do over 2k consistent dps... it hits like a potato and I have hit cap and 2pc with betrayer and skullclad I have no idea why or what I'm doing wrong

Is it that reliant on raid buffs

[thin marsh]

Warrior is bottom dps unless you have everything

If u have everything bis, ur like 5th best dps.

Until later in the expac.

[rich hatch]

[uncut pasture]

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/news/blizzard-responds-to-warrior-bug-reports-sudden-death-and-taste-for-blood-329371?webhook
You mean this?

[maiden venture]

What sort of avoidance do you think I'd need to try and solo Botanica? Think I'm around 50% in tbc p1 gear w some kara gear

Edit: to level 70-80

[forest ibex]

are you counting block into your avoidance?

[maiden venture]

Ehh let me check the WA again

i've not actually gone prot spec yet either so maybe i'm asking this prematurely lol

[forest ibex]

I think you should be able to try to solo botanica

The mobs should just explode from dam

I was thinking block isn’t going to be great for you , but then I considered it is unlikely the mobs are going to hit you for too much more than your block value so it’s nearly as good as the pure avoidance stats

Let me know how it goes because I want to do it on my dk I’m leveling haha

[maiden venture]

Thanks bud I'm gonna give it a go on Monday, I'll let you know how it goes

[serene igloo]

I'm having trouble making a cooldown macro for Recklessness/Death Wish/Trinket

#showtooltip Recklessness /cast [nostance:3] Berserker Stance /cast Recklessness /cast Death Wish /use [combat] 13 /use [combat] 14 /use [combat] 10 /startattack

tried doing just Reck and Death Wish as well, but it still doesn't work

it just casts the one that is listed first, and then never casts anything after that

If I put Death Wish first, it casts Death Wish but never Reck. Same for Reck when it's listed first

[hard minnow]

hello i would like to play warrior guys i've just small Q >> is good for new players ? also i'm playing Wotlk >> should i play pro or arms i'll boost warrior cuz i don't have much time for lvl up >> i've got some exp from lvling warlock lv 45 😄

[zealous birch]

I feel like this is troll

[hard minnow]

why

i'm totaly new in game anyway 😄

[proud elk]

if you're absolutely new, i wouldnt recommend you boosting a class like warrior

[rich hatch]

If you're new, play whatever you think is interesting

By the time you reach any type of demanding content, you'll have leveled and somewhat understand the class

[hexed prism]

I need help, my crits from SLAM in my strongest burst normally hit 4-5K. I just did a HC boss and for some reason I did 12 SLAMS of 8K. I don't know why or how. Does someone know?

[dusk iris]

Okay dumb question, but when do I use slam as an arms warrior?

How do I use it without completely dumping my rage

[knotty nexus]

@dusk iris theres probably a more efficient way than this, but my understanding is only use slam immediately AFTER an auto attack, and only when your other big abilities are on cd (hs,ms,overpower)

so use everything, wait for auto to land, then slam

iirc

[vital tapir]

you just need 1 item with hit rate to get cap ? or im missing smthing, i see gloves only with hit rate in the bis list for fury

[knotty nexus]

you get 3% from precision so its not too hard to get to 8%

[vital tapir]

do i want envoy or spinning fate ? the sim page says envoy but its 7.30%, wowhead says spinning to get 8% hit i assume

[odd flame]

hey guys, quick question how much is the cap for expertise in fury warr orc btw and i use polearm in MH and axe in OH

[hexed prism]

264 is hit cap

and I have 219 expertise but don't know if that is cap or not

[proud elk]

Guys, why sometimes when I'm pvping, my macro to Def stance does not equip 1 hander and shield?

using the classic

/cast Defensive Stance
/equip The Fleshshaper
/equip

[rich hatch]

add the slot numbers

#showtooltip
/cast Defensive Stance
/stopcasting
/equipslot 16 Red Sword of Courage
/equipslot 17 Royal Crest of Lordaeron

[proud basin]

best profs for fury pve?

engi jc or bs jc?

[crude shard]

This was true for vanilla and maybe TBC, but in wotlk they changed it. The swingtimer isn't affected by slam anymore, so you can just spam it.

[crude shard]

Use slam whenever you can't use overpower or execute - or you don't have to refresh rend obviously.
MS isn't worth using if you can stand still to cast slam.

[rich hatch]

spamming is still a loss if you clip the duration where you would normally auto

Slam still stops you from autoing, it just no longers resets the timer.

[crude shard]

I don't see the problem as long as your rage generation is enough to support it. Or what would be a better rotation?

[rich hatch]

You don't see a problem with delaying your autos?

Also even with tier bonus, MS > Slam

[warped garden]

Delaying your autos = slower rage regen

Spamming slam will always just rage starve you

[arctic barn]

Would you guys farm the heirloom sword for badges or just get the one for Stonekeeper's shards for leveling prot/ua?

[carmine dune]

WoWHead and Icyveins / warcrafttavern builds for Fury are different.. Any ideas which one is better?

[peak crown]

hey need warri in wotlk a swing timer?

[vital tapir]

any word regarding envoy vs spinning ? sim says envoy but you dont get hit cap, wowhead says spinning for hit cap.

[rich hatch]

that's your answer

spinning for hit cap, envoy otherwise

[vital tapir]

why is the sim site showingenvoy as bis or best dps then ? you dont get hit cap with envoy

[atomic jetty]

As a fury warrior what should my hit % be?

[sonic island]

Is the rotation or stat priority changed when using the UA build to tank heroics

[pulsar burrow]

264 without Precision | 165 with Precision | 132 with Precision and the Draenei passive

Not in %, this is your hit rating which is what I use - but these all get you to the 8% needed

[atomic jetty]

Does the gain of hit rating from my talent points in precision transfer over to the chart on my character sheet? As in when i have 3% from precision do i see that in my character tab or do i have to count it in manually?

[woeful lotus]

So debating the profession bonuses for prot warrior, obviously engineering is a must. BUT, when weighing all factors, is it really dumb to want to go Echanting over JC? I like the profession, and I;'m thinking It's gonna be better money

[forest ibex]

Enchanting is pretty good money if you do a lot of heroics

[woeful lotus]

So what about weighing all the other factors?

[forest ibex]

And you get a little gold bonus every tier you upgrade your gear

You lose the flexibility (and a few stat points) of stat allocation that JC gives you

[woeful lotus]

Ya, just trying to weigh if it's worth losing those stats

[forest ibex]

Personal preference

Do you like to parse?

[woeful lotus]

I don't care about parsing

especially as a prot warrior

[forest ibex]

Then go ench, but you will be losing ~40 Stam but that won’t gate you out of the content

[woeful lotus]

is 40 stam really much?

[forest ibex]

Look at how much Stam your boots or something have

It’s not a little

It’s not required either though

[woeful lotus]

ah ok

thx!

lol, just got banned on the other warrior discord for bringing this exact conversation up. Server's admin was being a jerk about it all.

"Wouldn't it be nice if there were guides that cover the profesions bonuses"

uhhh... yeah bro, I know the bonuses, I'm discussing the subjective worth of how to weight all the pros and cons of each profession.

/facepalm

#somepeople'skids

[rich hatch]

40 Stam is a good amount but it's not gonna make or break your survivability

I just stayed mining

And I tank everything just fine

[eager drum]

any tips for arms in 1v1 duels? i'm new to wow and i always get cc locked

[forest ibex]

Warriors lose 1v1

The only good duels are warrior v rogue and warrior v warrior

And both are pretty cringe/rng (dodges, parries, bleeds, crits)

[rich hatch]

You have to bait a couple reflects pretty well against any caster

And that's usually just relying on them misplaying rather than you outplaying

[forest ibex]

^

[charred wadi]

Its a minmax discord though and the guides are written with a lot of effort and thought behind to give some introductory perspectives about literally everything concerning wotlk wow warrior, including professions. So in general the response will be in line with what you experienced. If you don’t care about minmaxing then do whatever you find fun. Nobody cares. That discord sees 100s of people trying to justify suboptimal choices when those who ask seemingly harmless questions at the end of the day should just do whatever they think is fun. Don’t need to ask elitists for their blessing 😊👍🏼. In general though as long as you have engineering the 2nd prof matters 0. Not having access to rocket boot alone is just massive disadvantage. But you seemed to have understood that 😊

[elfin spruce]

LoL trying to have fun on classic servers, I tell people that I'm mining smithing and they look at me like I've grown a second nose

[rich hatch]

ya

in the end, none of the content is that demanding that you need any profession or piece of gear or whatev

[desert fractal]

How long is the greatness card good for or does it get immediately replaced with rune stone/grim toll combo next phase

[open shard]

which spec do you guys think is better dps for pve currently arms or fury? just got back into the game after a year

[desert fractal]

Arms unless you have the best gear and are kill bosses in 2 minutes

Fury over takes next phase with gear

[open shard]

thanks

[elfin spruce]

Neither one is going to win any prize's in the charts, but with the ilvl bump in ulduar fury will be fairly close to being in the spot where you can flip from str to arp and will start surpassing many classes that normally we would be trailing until togc

[split urchin]

Anyone know what is the minimun in defense like block, parry, avoidence etc for a revenge spec warrior to do HoS solo farm?

Or is it not possible

[elfin spruce]

Lots of lightning bolts in that place

[nocturne lintel]

i feel like a dumbass i cannot

for hte life of me find

a no rampage raid build

[rich hatch]

it'd be the same build

just take the point from rampage and put it in am or something

[split urchin]

Does enrange procc from anything in raids? Since wowhead tells u to go 2 in improved execute and not enrage, but then in the rotation guide on wowhead they say that execute is actually shite to use and we actually only use it in execute phase IF we have no bloodthrist procs and all other abilities is on cooldown?

[split urchin]

Anyone got a good revenge talent build that u wanna share?

[split urchin]

Does Precision show under ur character tab?

[charred wadi]

Wowhead guide has talents for UA

[charred wadi]

Wowhead guide for fury warr talent section comment on this…

[dark plinth]

I don't think it does and I don't think the expertise talents show up in your character sheet. Makes doing math hard

[fervent lintel]

Anyone know if the wow head guides are up to date and good? I'm leveling a prot warrior, level 71 currently, hoping to find a tank spot in a guild before the expac is over

[elfin spruce]

Afaik they're up to date, good, eh not a lot of variation in wotlk tank builds

[glossy grail]

Is there any decent information out there on Prot Warrior PVP ?

gearing etc

theres an icy veins article but that looks so off with the gear jus being full pvp

[forest ibex]

Not sure warrior has many good pve options in this phase anyway

Even for pve lol

The alternative is usually 25m neck, rings, trinket

[charred wadi]

Guides 100 % reliable, written by the minmaxers on Fight club. Without being full clown mode with expensive BOE's and plenty of options for every slot with some explanations and reasoning. Also good run down of talents, consumes, enchants etc.

[fervent lintel]

Great, thanks. Would ask in fight club but.... you know

[elfin spruce]

Tbh I'd go arms for pvp

[forest ibex]

Oh prot pvp?

Isn’t there just the African turtle cleave

And other than that you’re kinda trolling?

[elfin spruce]

Yeah prot itself doesn't have the oomph to be effective

If we're talking about stuff like av just be tanky and go get the bosd

But for arena and general mayhem arms is your slapper

[split urchin]

Does Grim toll trinket stack so u get like 1,2k armor pen for 10 seconds if it procs? or is it just a higher uptime of the procc

[fervent lintel]

So if I pick enchanting instead of JC that's a 40stam difference if I read it correctly?

[forest ibex]

Might be closer to 30 and change

[fervent lintel]

In later phases with epic gems you mean?

[forest ibex]

Ah yeah

[fervent lintel]

Which translates to 300 base hp?

[forest ibex]

Nah

It gets buffed by kings and talents

[fervent lintel]

Reason I'm asking is that I have a warlock with eng+tailor and shaman with eng+jc already

[forest ibex]

Eng+jc is best

Enchanting is worse

But the whole game also isn’t about raiding

So it’s up to you

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, but then I'll have 2 characters with the same 2 professions, so I'm trying to assess how big the downgrade is

[forest ibex]

Look at how much Stam your item slots have

Weigh against that

It’s probably 1/4 of an item worse roughly

[fervent lintel]

I'm not good at assessments, but that doesn't sound like much

[forest ibex]

It’s not it’s just less min maxed

Will not gate you from any content

[fervent lintel]

Being a warrior tank will get me gated

[forest ibex]

Haha more than your profession choices yea, but really only if you don’t use CDs and have zzz healers

[fervent lintel]

More because people think warrior tanks are bad. Thank you content creators and the community of warmane

[elfin spruce]

Only smoothbrain people don't like warrior tanks

[bleak torrent]

fiery wep got fixed?

[long fern]

is there a way to sim myself?

[split urchin]

I was wondering is 4set tier piece the best way to go? Just looked thro the top 10 of the best dps warriors and 8 out of 10 uses the 4 set is it better? Or what am I missing out on, cuz I was told the 2 tier piece and then going for stuff like leather chest and leather gloves from malygos is better

[molten kestrel]

huge

[woeful lotus]

How much defense do I need?

is it 545?

[charred wadi]

540..

about 535 if you use the pvp shoulder enchant (which you should)

[elder falcon]

Yes it got hotfixed like 1 day after 😄

[jolly palm]

gg in esprots, noobs

[ripe python]

Hi,
I got tricks of the trade 22 times yesterday in our naxx/maly/sarth run. For some reason it doesnt give log any damage output in the logs. If i look on other guildes it shows up in logs and the damage it made. I know it doesnt stack with Deathwish etc, does any1 else have the same problem?

[jolly palm]

its shown on its own

[ripe python]

I know that, but it doesnt include my damage.

22 casts on me, nothing recorded on log

[charred wadi]

Share the log please

Iirc the damage added from tricks does not count to yours

for simplicity, lets pretend 100 dps over 6s for 600 dmg done
with tricks tricks up it would be 690 dmg done instead (600*1.15), right?
what wcl dmg table will show is, you did 600 dmg and tricks will be shown as a seperate entry for 90 dmg

total dmg the same, but you aren't getting juiced up. it should not nullify your dmg during the 6s window at all, only remove 15% of the extra dmg that the buff provides. if it is not working like that it doesn't seem correct. either a bug or most likely missreading the log or i completely missunderstand how wcl decided to handle it

[ripe python]

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NZzj9RrXnH481faV#boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2&type=damage-done

I know how it works, and that it should be shown as a seperate entry under "Tott". But i find it wierd that everyone else damage is included under Eddwardo's Tott and not mine?

[sour sorrel]

So i'm wanting to try classic again a bit, and i have a warrior that i'm planning to play prot on. Is prot ok for quest levelling (in northrend) and i know that in vanilla and TBC stance dancing was a thing, do you still do that normally or generally stay in one stance?

[ripe python]

Generally stay, lvl'ing as prot/arms is broken. Only time u swap is if u wanna use sweeping strikes on big pulls.

[forest ibex]

2 mobs+ you will stance dance to activate sweeping strikes if you choose to go the ua build, which is great for leveling and dungeons

But deep prot has no need to change stances

[elfin spruce]

Fury and arms will stance dance fairly often depending on the situation and what debuffs you're expected to upkeep, pure prot never will once you get charge in dstance

[sour sorrel]

ok, so when setting up my bars and stuff, i can really focus on D stance and be good with it? / also set up the other bars for sweeping strikes later?

[forest ibex]

No

Set it all up don’t be lazy

[sour sorrel]

Well, yeah i just mean, as a starting point i can start with the d stance stuff first since it felt pretty overwhelming looking at it for the first time in a long time yesterday lol

[hexed prism]

Does it matter when I have berserking on 1 wep if it is on main or offhand?

[charred wadi]

I see what you mean, I only checked how it went down on patchwerk. Can see Edd rogue casted tott 3 times, 2 on dk and 1 on you. i can confirm it was up for 6s on the rogue, so he wasn't like cancelling as a prank or something stupid. But if you notice the full dmg table breakdown for Pw, even though Edd casted 3 tott it only shows contributing 5k dmg. That doesn't make sense. Compared to Fever who casted it once on a warlock and it added 50k (makes much more sense).

Maybe the answer lies in some of the external rules they implemented? Can't find anything more than this. Maybe join wcl discord and search for discussions related to tott

Regardless, it should not affect your logs.

[ripe python]

Thanks for diving into it, i mailed them and askd aswell. Waiting for answer and will update here when they reply

I know about external, if that where the case the log would be invaild fully

[charred wadi]

yeah thats what i landed in as well

[ripe python]

Very wierd. The most logic i can think of is that i would have had deathwish up, but seems unlikley to have it all the 22 times

[charred wadi]

Would need to check every boss you received tott and what the dmg breakdown table looked like

if there is a trend

[frank plaza]

Could someone help me wrap my head around this, before I stupidly respec to try it out.

Going into WOTLK Classic I picked a warrior for the first time, after having been a holy priest main for many years.

I was told, by more knowledgeable friends, that Arms > Fury until later phases in WOTLK (Like Ulduar or later).

But now by inspecting Warcraftlogs for WOTLK it seems like Fury by far is dominating the top leader boards for Warrior DPS. Are those numbers inflated, or is Fury the best way to pump already?

And is it a case where you need the BIS gear to even consider it?

[forest ibex]

Why not respec to try it out?

Arms has had a bugged talent since launch

And the ability it bugged (overpower) is their highest damage cast seemingly

[frank plaza]

I thought they fixed something after hotfixing Fiery Enchants

[lone nacelle]

Arms if played well should beat out Fury right now, but Arms is a lot more complicated than Fury is and a lot of people don’t like it. Whereas Fury could be played pretty competently with a /castrandom macro and putting heroic strike on your scroll wheel so…y’know.

[frank plaza]

Doesn't sound too bad to me tho. Maybe I should give it a shot 😛

[elfin spruce]

Fury is literally press whatever is lit up

Bt on CD ww on cd

Slap heroic strike over 50 rage

Arms has a lot of maintenance involved and yeah op isn't triggering properly

Also requires swing timers for slam

[fiery ferry]

Fury has been bugged for the firsts couple weeks on their slam procs, but a fix has been applied lately, don’t know if it’s live but fury should deal less than arms with the fix

[fervent lintel]

Anyone tested both UA and deep prot builds for leveling? What's your take on it if so?

[frank plaza]

Was the bug making slam procs more frequent?

[fiery ferry]

Yes

[forest ibex]

Wow fury was bugged to be better and arms worse sounds like blizzard sabotage

[lone nacelle]

Kinda? Slam doesn’t reset auto timer in wrath it just delays the auto by the cast time so it’s not nearly as important as it used to be

[elfin spruce]

true

[rich hatch]

They are about even now with the TFB fix but more gear = fury pulls ahead

But Arms brings two desired debuffs

[forest ibex]

During lust as arms you 100% need a swing timer lol

If your swing timer goes under 1.5 sec you shouldn’t be slamming

And hopefully you lust every bossfight

[elfin spruce]

What raid doesn't bring their token 3rd tank feral debuffer

Covers fury and arms buffs, ifc rogues are dime a dozen for the melee dmg buff

[rich hatch]

all rogues are sin

pretty much all 25s have a feral but 10s eh

regardless, the phys debuff is what's important and no one's playing combat yet

[frank plaza]

So until Combat becomes meta or you have an other arms warrior it’s not recommended to Fury?

(From a 25 man progression perspective)

[rich hatch]

for the raid overall, ya

ulduar starts bringing a good amount of arp so you might see rogues swapping then

[molten kestrel]

i burst 2k only on st.. is that ok? Im 3200 gs

[forest ibex]

Probably not good

My 70 warrior bursts 3k+ with tbc talents

[elfin spruce]

The real meta is don't bring melee

No more need for buffs

[lone nacelle]

People keep saying this like Sin doesn’t still scale incredibly well or something and I can’t really understand why lol

[fiery ferry]

Its normal on raid dummies

Since u have no expertise nor hit cap

[forest ibex]

He is yellow hit capped(assuming he has the 3% hit talented)

[zealous birch]

anyone here in the Fight Club server?

[forest ibex]

Ye

[rich hatch]

ya

[fervent lintel]

Don't ask to ask, just ask

[ripe python]

@charred wadi WCL Response :
Hello,
We're dealing with this, thanks for your report!
Will update when it's fixed.
Azrael.

[charred wadi]

There you go sweet

[glad grove]

Been playing with sims and the Ebon Hold boots actually sim much higher than these, just thought it was weird given the stat weight tends on obliteration since it has more offensive stats

Guessing armor pen is just bad before you get enough of it

[ripe python]

Dont trust sim 😛

[charred wadi]

If your using https://wowsims.github.io/wotlk/warrior/ then its as accurate as you will get for warrior in classic

makes sense EH boots are beter than these. Second socket, crit and armor pen isn't that hot without being able to stack it reasonably

[glad grove]

Good to know, ill follow their preraid bis then

It sims 200 dps higher than the other guide I was going for

[charred wadi]

The sim tool is developed based on confirmed classic mechanics. No useless warmane feelscraft

and its maintained 🙂

wowhead guides are the guides you should follow, written for classic and recommended gear sets are evaluated with this very exact tool

[toxic kayak]

any good prot warri solo dungeon spams or hyper spawns for 60-70?

[ripe python]

Just solo ramparts/BF- bring food and pots

[toxic kayak]

how geared do you need to be for ramparts?

[charred wadi]

I cant imagine much. Can always just go in and see how it goes.

[rich hatch]

Was doing BF in 20 mins during prepatch so not much

[short obsidian]

hi, want to ask, is Armagedon good for arms warr in pvp? or its meh, thanks

[charred wadi]

I assume axe is ideal, for the crit % and crit dmg

[elfin spruce]

Haste is literally dumpster stat for warriors in wotlk

[elfin spruce]

Armageddon isn't great but if it's higher top end than what you got...

[jolly palm]

not really

[rich hatch]

Yeah you're not using anything but axe/polearm for arms

Armageddon is like 3rd(?) best wep for fury tho

If you are human*

And haste isn't awful but not your prio

[molten kestrel]

mangoose or massacre? i can't afford

berseker

[rich hatch]

massacre is better but mats-wise it's almost the same as zerker

[sweet cedar]

hey folks..

looking for the war spreadsheet

[drifting token]

yo if I'm orc should I get the 3% crit meta or the 10% stun reduc meta?

for arenas lol forgot to mention that part.7

[forest ibex]

probably comp dependent

[zealous birch]

Does it stack with orc racial and arm talent?

And if it does stack, is there dr on stacking that much?

[vapid quarry]

need macro help plz message

someting is buging out and cant figure out why

for my shattering throw

[split urchin]

How much expertise is it u need as fury? Under stat prio's it doesnt say a specific amount

But I feel like i've read some place that u need soft cap of hit rating and on expertise and then rest into str and arp if u can that

[charred wadi]

26 to not get dodge vs bosses

[desert fractal]

26 it’s a little tough to get there and make sure you’re behind the boss

[raw valley]

Is fury or arms better in naxx?

[elfin spruce]

Post the macro, can't read your mind

[vapid quarry]

1 sec sorry i was pvoin

[rich hatch]

#showtooltip Shattering Throw
/cast [nostance:1] Battle Stance
/cast Shattering Throw

try that @vapid quarry

startattack won't do anything because throw is on gcd + a cast bar

[vapid quarry]

oh stasrt attack i know

[inland locust]

Leveling a warrior alt, why does Prot seem so overtuned? Just hit 30 and I can aoe farm 6-8 mobs. Is Prot really the meta to level with now or does arms outdo it?

[vapid quarry]

its ben bugging mer that the toss aint working

i thik it a typo on me end tho

[rich hatch]

prot

well UA is more arms than prot so is it really prot?

more like arms with a shield

[desert fractal]

Fury is better if you are geared and are killing bosses extremely fast

[cloud badge]

yo question, why is everyone stacking dual berserking an not going for berserking mh and executioner oh?

i remember berserking mh and exec oh was a thing

for fury

it seems good if u think about it, grim toll proc+ exec and zerking

since zerking kinda procs a lot

maybe its because of ppm?

since zerking seems to proc a lot

idk

in my head zerking + exec seems viable ima try it tbh

[rich hatch]

viable sure, double zerk just sims better

[toxic kayak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IX-5PqIH1U&ab_channel=Wuzmeister111

My gear isn't as good, but i seem to get stunned/disarmed way more, is it strictly a gear issue as to why? Really struggle to find greens with defence/block/parry on them tbh

[brave flame]

im assumign the wowhead guides are all legit, but fury definitely requires less hit rating for the softcap whe using 3/3 precision correct?

[forest ibex]

Yes

[proud elk]

Can someone explain if there's a problem of getting rage in PVP at the moment or am i doing sth wrong ?

[split urchin]

Im confused what im doing wrong since i parse so low, would anyone pm if they would be willingly to look at my logs and tell me what im doing wrong.

[restive linden]

does anyone got an weakaura tracker for sunder amor i would prefer it fancy

😄

[exotic wadi]

i am using the luxthos wa pack. its implemented there

Do we realy hold death wish until trinket procs? I am using Mirror of Truth and Sphere of red dragons blood. It feels like such a huge dps waste if mirror doesnt proc in like 30 seconds, after death wish is up. Or do i press death wish with sphere right after its up and hope that mirror procs?

[frank plaza]

I like this one for raid:
https://wago.io/DWpFAFs6U

Also helps me see if other people are taking care of it

[molten kestrel]

what do u guys think about JC and BS ? are they good? or engi are so ahead?

[split urchin]

whats best Sinner's Bindings or Bracers of Unrelenting Attack

[hexed prism]

4 set worth it? Heroes' Dreadbaught Gaubtlets VS Crude Discolored Battlegrips, I will lose my 4 set if I take my new 213 hands

[frank plaza]

Asking the same question. But I’ve seen some list 2 piece BIS

[molten kestrel]

double mangoose is ok?

[woven schooner]

Anyone know which is better between Darkmoon Card: Berserker and Bandit's Insignia. I don't see either on bis lists but currently using berserker and got bandits

[coarse path]

In a 25-man raid with an arms warrior, fury warrior and an assassination rogue, all of equal gear levels, in general, who should be applying the reduced armor debuff?

[charred wadi]

Afaik no good way to sim overall raid benefits of one approach over the other. I would look at it practical and seperate the discussion a bit. There is difference between how to manage EA/SA on pull/CD window vs EA/SA rest of the fight.

On pull/BL window:
Most efficient way in at least 15/17 fights is to pop lust on pull, since that is when everyone's ICDs, pre-pot etc is rolling. That means you want EA/SA up asap for maximum juice. 2 warriors can manage it in 2-3 gcds or 4.5s (1 guy does 2, other guy does 3). The priority on pull is get it up asap. Who does it doesn't matter. Can a Sin rogue do it faster than 2 warriors? It is probably pretty equal. Regarding what makes more sense its another question completely. Is it better 2 dps warriors spend 2-3 gcds each or a rogue who could (should?) be able to do it in same time window? Warrior also has Shattering Throw to include somehow which further delays one warriors personal ramp up time by another 1.5s.

After BL window:
A problem with EA is you can't apply SA at the same time. Having the rogue refresh EA throghout the fight is without a doubt a raid dps loss. So you should consider how to manage it once EA falls off as well. If warriors Sunder from the getgo then the problem solved itself, just refresh as needed. Alternatively warriors take over after EA and get it back up ASAP (i.e prio gcds for it) once the CD window is over but make sure Shattering Throw is used during the initial pull/cd window. I would just say try both approaches out and see what feels smoother.

At 99-percentile and 90-percentile Arms and Fury are among the 5 bottom dps classes assuming equal play/gear. The Sin rogue should be blasting way harder, so it is self-serving to just take on the role as warrior and Sunder. Faster kill time effects everyone's parse so enabling your biggest blaster also helps you perform. If this is true for your guild/raid I don't know.

[coarse path]

thank you for the detailed answer!

[forest ibex]

Warriors put up the debuff unless the rogue sucks dilly

The GitHub sim.io thing for wotlk has a raidwide sim iirc

[eternal loom]

when i charge in berserk and got a OP proc i have the macro to switch to battlestance and instant use OP without GCD but when im in Deffstance and press the same Macro i always got GCD and have to wait

someone got a solution or it is what it is?

ok i got a solution on my own the weapon switch from shield to 2hand just takes to long

[forest ibex]

Switching your main hand incurs a gcd

Iirc

[sand token]

guys i have a question do you think is okay to tank in prot/arms hybrid for 80 lvl dungeons normal?

or i should go for deep prot spec?

[forest ibex]

Perfectly ok

Unless your personal dps is trash, then make the switch to deep prot

[sand token]

personal dps?

[forest ibex]

Your dps

[sand token]

hmm ok i will check dung and see

[forest ibex]

It should be doing more dps, but idk if youre doing more dps with that spec- than you would with deep prot

And the only reason you would keep it is if it made dungeon grinding faster

[elfin spruce]

Ua is fine for tanking heroics

[sand token]

Ua?

you meant prot/arms hybrid?

[elfin spruce]

The revenge pumpers build

[split urchin]

Is armor pen not as valuable on fury as it is on arms? According to the wowhead summary the arms version gets a little over 500 arp while the fury sits at 253 however the arms only gets 15 expertise (3.75%) vs fury sitting at 30 (7,50%) is that cuz fury values expertise alot more than arms does and then has to sacrifice arp to get expertise capped

[forest ibex]

You would need to put their sims and bis lists side by side to determine that

I think fury gets some extra expertise in talents

Arpen is not very good right now

[split urchin]

How come

[forest ibex]

Because each point is better than the last- and that point will not be good enough until you have an amount that weighs higher than strength

Which is ~700-800 arpen geared

[split urchin]

Aah okay

[forest ibex]

So it is very likey your 801st point of arpen is when it will be better than gemming or gear swapping strength or crit

[elfin spruce]

Because armorpen works as anti armor, for all intents. Armor provides more mitigation % at lower values (while the actual % mitigated is linear) thus the lower you push someone's armor by a factor of % gives you exponential returns.

[split urchin]

To be honest.. Im not sure I understand that @elfin spruce

[forest ibex]

He said the same thing as me, just the formal math behind it

[elfin spruce]

Tldr, ARP gets better the more you have because armor gets weaker the more you have

[forest ibex]

^

[split urchin]

So as of now, its alot better to stack str and crit or just str if u can't do both, and then in later phases once ur able to actually get 800+ armor pen it becomes amazing?

[elfin spruce]

Str until you can soft cap ARP which is probably in ulduar

[split urchin]

Okay, thanks man

I've been looking at other logs aswell to try and see what im doing wrong and I noticed a lot of people generate a shitload more rage than me how come

[forest ibex]

Logs

There are like 10 things you could be doing wrong

[split urchin]

Well people keep telling me since im not engi thats already 500dps gone there..

[forest ibex]

Probably correct

Engi is very very strong

[ornate dagger]

how long does engi last to which phase?

[forest ibex]

Until cataclysm

[split urchin]

But can that really be the only reason why im for example only doing 3700 dps on patchwerk with 200 ilvl

[forest ibex]

Well do some math

Find the uptime you would have in your last- say patchwerk fight

Then add that to a sim

And find the dps upgrade

Uptime being uptime of the glove enchant active

Or just add into sims and see differences

Here’s what u want to know:

1. Sample fight you’ve done (dps amount)
2. Simmed fight of your character, same boss, same kill time
3. Simmed fight of your character w engineering enchant, same boss, same kill time

And that will tell you how bad your rotation is and how much you are missing by not having engineering

Not having a mini lust every 1 min will be a dps loss surely

[forest ibex]

Are you a tank or dps?

[split urchin]

Dps

fury

[forest ibex]

Ok

Do you have a cpm similar to top parsing fury?

Or any log at all?

[split urchin]

no clue what cpm is

[forest ibex]

Logs

Do you have them

[split urchin]

sent the log i did last week of patchwerk

[forest ibex]

Cool lemme look at some stuff and I’ll tell u what stands out

[split urchin]

Awesome man thanks

[forest ibex]

So it looks like you are not getting a lot of heroic strike crits

And that’s because you’re not heroic striking much

So now to find out why

You have about 1/2 the started crit as the top fury

Who gained almost 300 more rage than you- just through the glyph of heroic strike

Which is A LOT of free heroic strikes

You didn’t use recklessness?

[split urchin]

I did but according to the rotation

they say i should use recklessness on bloodthrist

[forest ibex]

There is no having recklessness on your log

It’s just another dps increase- non necessarily tied to your heroic strik issue

[split urchin]

Try to use Recklessness with every second Death Wish - Ensuring that the three critical strikes are either Bloodthirsts or (especially on AoE) Whirlwinds will help your damage considerably.

copy pasted from wowhead

[forest ibex]

Are you reupping sunder extremely early?

Like more than 10sec left?

[split urchin]

I dont do sunder armor since we got a warrior tank

[forest ibex]

Ok so u need crit brother

[split urchin]

I do however use shattering throw in lust phase

[forest ibex]

And the crit will help you heroic strike more and get a lot more deep wounds damage

[split urchin]

But in my recklessness CD should I focus on using that on HS instead of bloodthrist as wowhead says

[elfin spruce]

Crit = flurry uptime

And rage in auto attacks

[forest ibex]

Tbh just use recklessness

[elfin spruce]

Just press

Like our CD use is literally simple, press it

[forest ibex]

I just don’t think you can bloodthirst 3x without needing to heroic strike or slam

[elfin spruce]

If you're wasting GCD trying to bt 3x for reck you're in for licking your ear level of frustrating

[forest ibex]

Either way that’s a small portion of dps

Warriors are about correct stats

[elfin spruce]

That is a long time without casting anything else

[forest ibex]

The rotation is extremely simple and you seem to have it down ok

[elfin spruce]

Yes get crit, dint be shy about swiping those high crit leather pieces from the rogues until you hit 30%

[forest ibex]

^

500ish crit rating is quite sadge

[split urchin]

is there a way to import my character in the sims

so u can see what im using now

[elfin spruce]

Like fury in this early era gets so much benefit from the double whammy if agi and crit on those leather off piece

[split urchin]

compared to the log

[elfin spruce]

Grab simc

The addon and export your string

[split urchin]

I have it already

[elfin spruce]

Or just out yourself in manually

[forest ibex]

The sim.io thing lets u save profiles so once u do it manually you can keep track for future

[split urchin]

oh awesome

[forest ibex]

Also the glove enchant from engineering is going to get you more white hits -> more rage -> more heroic strikes

[split urchin]

Im mining and enchant atm dont and since i struggle with money i dont rly wanna level engi

thats why i kinda hate that engi makes so much of a difference

[forest ibex]

Stock up mining supplies then

[elfin spruce]

So fury is going to be in acsad state until mid xpac

Just keep being your raids token fury and then reap the reward of getting the first shadowmourne and shitting all over the meters in ICC

[forest ibex]

Save up mining shit for a phase or so then switch- really depends on how u feel about parsing

Barely anyone will get a smourne on live

[split urchin]

I mean tbh.. my avg parsing atm is 39.1

I kinda want like 60+

is that possible without engi

[forest ibex]

Yes

[split urchin]

60-75 and im happy

[elfin spruce]

Becwary of parse %, but seriously get yourself some crit and you'll Start to climb

And stop sitting on reck charges just for bt

[ornate dagger]

any suggestions for weakauras to track revenge procs?

[forest ibex]

Wag.io wotlk revenge proc

Show me when

Is good too

“Showmewhen”

[forest ibex]

does rend do anything for fury?

[split urchin]

Does Expose armor and sunder armor stacks?

Or is it only sunder armor and fearie fire

[rich hatch]

expose armor is the same thing as sunder

[cloud badge]

bro i charged a mob in gundrak, now im in elden ring renala boss fight map wtf XD

[unique dust]

What is our best gem to stack as Fury? I see crit on one guide, strength on another.

[forest ibex]

Sim it

[elfin spruce]

Crit has a soft cap that is important for fury to reach to be effective

Str has the best linear value until we can hit like 800 arp, but crit you need 28-33% for the spec to start doing well

High uptime on flurry and bonus rage on auto/HS (glyph) is important

[hearty pagoda]

anyone has weakaura for showing revenge proc in other stances aswell

[rotund quiver]

Yeah I'll pm it to you

[unreal crystal]

Hi,

Should we really focus 263 hit rating as fury warrior?

When I sim with my gear and 162 hit rating I sim better than my 263 hit build

Can I trust this? https://wowsims.github.io/wotlk/warrior/

[candid bridge]

What is the crit soft-cap as fury?

[unreal crystal]

I ask this because I saw full bis Shamelem does 1.200dps less than warrior and I don't think it's correct

[boreal raft]

Anyone else not getting theire Northrend Adventure Supplies from completing a dungeon?

[wanton sigil]

if you use it correctly rend is a significant dps increase for fury

[plucky heron]

Is the 85 ap weapon enchant better than mongoose ?

[elfin spruce]

You queuing as a solo tank?

[forest ibex]

Sim it, probably not

[split urchin]

how is it used correctly

is the 4 set tier piece better than going 2 set tiers and then leather pieces from EoE

[wanton sigil]

Nope. 4 set is not worth

You use WW bt bloodsurge*

Then go bstance rend

You can make it so it takes 1 gcd

[prime granite]

with precision you only need 5%, which is approximately 163 hit

[prime granite]

thoughts on macroing heroic throw to HS? I find I sometimes accidentally waste a GCD on throw when BT is up.

[charred wadi]

Would run in to same problem as macro with BT. HS -> HT -> GCD

[torpid edge]

I can’t seem to find anywhere saying fury warrior crit has a soft cap or any type of breakpoints

Can anyone help and share the source ?

[onyx ferry]

I understand my priorities, but how should I think if I have a slam proc but the CD of Bloodthirst is lower than GCD, in other words - should I hold and wait for Bloodthirst to make sure I dont "hold it" by being globaled and ignore the slam proc?

[wanton sigil]

Heroic throw resets your swing timer . So you need to use it carefully

[wanton sigil]

Use slam in that case. You may lose a proc.

[gleaming wren]

question anyone playing incite build as arms

would you still use 4 set ?

[elfin spruce]

So the "Soft cap" on crit is the minimum value required to maintain 100% uptime on flurry. Which in theory is around 28%, you benefit from crit higher than this, but this is like the lowest bar. So its less a soft cap and more a "you must be this tall to ride"

But a soft cap in the sense that prior to that Crit has a MUCH higher value due to how good flurry is for our rage generation

[frank plaza]

Why are people topping as fury all rocking it then on Warcraft logs? (Genuine question)

[cloud badge]

maybe because its week 4 i imagine since naxx came out, and there is really little funneled fury warriors out there to display all bis top gear logs. and the diff of dps is in the minimals like 50-45 if we are comparing lets say helm 1 vs helm 2 in bis list and so on. thats what i think and what i deduced looking at logs. if u analyze there are some using rend and some not, it varies.

and because tier is way more accesible, u can get pants and shoulders from vendor, both are bis 1, tier helm is bis 2 and drops more ofthen than OS helm, same with hands.

also remember that not a single guild will prio funnel a fury or arms warrior, considering the same bis 1 item does much more in a better class like a rogue a dk a hunter, a feral, a shaman etc. in p1 we are bottom of the barrel. in p3 the jump is really game changer, like from p1 to p2 the changes with ala bis gear is like 1k more dmg, from p2 to p3 its like 3k jump or smt like that i dont remember well.

[frank plaza]

Cool. Makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.

[steep swift]

Are there any diminishing returns for running Berserking on both weapons as Fury? Should I only run it on my main hand and run something else on my offhand?

[hollow jasper]

Why dop we use Glyph of Cleave for Exe

shouldn't it be

Cleave for HS?

in Heroic?

[proper gulch]

Has anyone tested playing 1h fury and not taking the end talent in fury instead taking ss in the arms tree? Thinking about for aoe scenarios specifically this could be big but not sure

[bright umbra]

Anyone know if it is better to rock the BiS gear in each slot, or go for tier bonus? Is the tier bonus worth it?

As fury

[frank plaza]

Person above gave a good breakdown. Seems like BIS and 2 piece.

On that note.. How not to suck as Fury in phase 1. Thoughts? 😂

Does it require full BIS before it shows any form of dmg? Or am I just that bad..

[bright umbra]

Didn't see that. Thanks 🙂

[normal moon]

Is there any consensus on whether arms or fury is better right now in wrath?

[charred wadi]

Depends what you mean with consensus? Warrior is dogshit, if dps is the concern.

Looking at all percentiles last 2 weeks for full run Fury is 5th from last and Arms 3rd from last. Median scores of 52 an 48 respectively, so its a wash. Fury being 5th from last isn't a saving grace when the competition is Arms, Frost mage, BM hunter and Rets. Compare that to Demo lock and 2 Rogue specs scoring around 70. For Patchwerk dps specifically, again all percentiles, Fury is 3rd last at 3.9k median dps and Arms 3.7k median dps.

At the 99-percentile for Patchwerk the picture is the same. Fury 2nd to last with Arms at the bottom. Fury beats arms by 200 dps Its not a landslide exactly. Even Sub rogue pulls way ahead at the highest lvl of play. On the overalls for 99-percentiles warrior is also low. Pretty much same category as bm hunter and rets.

Warrior brings Sunder, Shattering Throw and a Commanding shout. Imo you bring the warrior for the utility and not for the dmg. Arms has 4% phys and 30% bleed debuffs and Fury has the 5% crit. If you dont have Feral then a Fury is worth having, if you don't have combat rogue then Arms also makes sense. Even if you have both alternative buffers/debuffers having one warr to manage Sunder/Commanding should feel worthwhile.

[normal moon]

Thanks Cruise, I'm mostly prot but DPS for fights that need fewer tanks, I'll probably stick with arms for now

[elfin spruce]

If you're not running 2 prot than it makes zero sense to have you be swing tank

Dk and druid are way better for offtank dps

[main mountain]

Was wondering if I could get some help for my lv 80 protection warrior I haven’t played World of Warcraft since vanilla and just coming back to it

[elfin spruce]

Ask away

[main mountain]

I just wanted someone’s opinion on the auto blocker from the burning Crusade is it worth it Or what two trinkets should I use sorry the whole Discord thing is new to me also😔

[elfin spruce]

I mean auto blocker us a lot of fun and makes a very good dungeon trinket

What trades do you have

[main mountain]

that’s the other thing I got caught up in the rush to hurrying up and getting to 80 I ignored my professions but I went engineering and mining I am also os fury because my guild asked me to

[elfin spruce]

Ok so you're going to use the auto blocker or the coin from brewfest until raid trinkets

[main mountain]

I’m currently using defenders code and mirror of truth but I have been finally

[elfin spruce]

Grab the hit trinket from nexus heroic it'll double for a good fury trinket as well

But in wotlk stam stacking is the name of the game, but block value doublesvasva threat stat and defensive

[main mountain]

I have been trying for that essence of Gossamer

[elfin spruce]

Yeah it's a pain

My war is still using coin + crab

I plop the auto blocker in for luls

[main mountain]

I have the coin in the bank and I am literally like three badges adjusts off from the auto blocker I’ve been using icy

[elfin spruce]

Cause ss hits so hard

[main mountain]

Three badges of justice

I was just wondering what would it be like if I combo the auto blocker and the coin

[elfin spruce]

Can probably solo heroic ramps at 80

[main mountain]

And icy even says that it’s like top three

Maybe 4

Do you think it would be a good idea to use the auto blocker and the coin like that

[elfin spruce]

It's hilarious how hard ss hits and you have 60% uptime on the 200sbv buff

[elfin spruce]

Yes

[main mountain]

Sometimes they have me off tank in 25 man for the adds

[elfin spruce]

For raid tanking you'll want better but they're not bad

[main mountain]

What two trinkets would you recommend for raid tanking

Sorry I’ve just been beating my head up against the wall thinking about it

And it has definitely changed a lot since Manila and I’m a whole lot older now lol

Vanilla*

[elfin spruce]

Without jc, gossimar and either lavanthors or keep the coin/auto

Lavanthors has the big sbv click but gives rating which is better for raiding

Phase one is janky

[main mountain]

Ok so ima go for gossimar and lavanthors I have already been trying to get them but they don’t ever drop lol

[elfin spruce]

I know, trust me, I know

I was smithing at the start and swapped to jc because I got tired of chasing trinkets

[main mountain]

Since I already have the coin and I’m only literally three badges off for the auto blocker might as well just run that until they do drop for me

And I really didn’t realize how in the dust protection spec warriors were

What do you think about the sonic booster

[elfin spruce]

In the dust?

Strongest overall tank in the dust 🤷‍♂️

[main mountain]

Lol I guess I just see to many pallys everywhere

[rich hatch]

prot warr is alright

None of the tanks are unmanageable. Don't let the paladin bloat discourage you lol

Also sonic booster is ok if you have nothing else

Usually always procs right off the rip so it's decent for threat gen

Try to replace it soon tho

[main mountain]

Would you be talking about the sonic booster if so I’m not using that right now I have code of the defender and mirror of truth right now I cannot get that trinket to drop from that spider or the one in violent hole

[rich hatch]

You're prob fine then

Lavanthors from VH is really nice

Gossimer at this point is just Stam padding. The effect normally doesn't do much unless you're tanking a lot of adds

[main mountain]

I run it every day and the one time I ran it as os dps it dropped lol

And I didn’t want to be that guy so I just gave it to the tank

Yeah sometimes in 25 million raids they’ll have me off tank for adds

Man*

[rich hatch]

You can also farm nHOL

For the armor trink

[main mountain]

Trust me I’ve been doing that too and I just can’t get it to drop

[rich hatch]

Ouch

[main mountain]

I feel like the three trinkets that everyone’s recommending I just cannot get lol

[elfin spruce]

Fotm dudes who don't know how things work

They hear cheat death and instantly flip

Thing is paladins need it they're so squishy

[rich hatch]

Warrs with cd management are good to go

Unless you get one shot by a spell or griefed by your heals, you're not dying

[elfin spruce]

By the time we get to icc druids are going to be at 60% avoidance and 80,000 hp

[main mountain]

I am going to keep trying to shoot for the gross and the one in vh

[frank plaza]

Any knowledgeable Fury warriors who can share their POV on Unbridled Wrath + Anger Management? Worth picking up until BIS geared, or is the gain just simply too small compared to enrage / better shouts?

[elfin spruce]

The shouts are a big chunk of utility, legitimately I wouldn't worry about damage until ulduar

Like no one is bringing warriors because they pump at the moment, be like me - sacrifice for utility

[frank plaza]

Yeah that's what I'm leaning towards too! Ty ❤️

[elfin spruce]

One if my guildies is literally in the top 10 arms warrior right now and they're hitting 100s getting beat by blue parsing warlocks

(I'm the blue parsing warlock, because I lost the coin flip for the DPS war spot)

[dreamy violet]

I parsed purple and was like 700 dps behind an Unholy who parsed green, felt pretty bad lol.

[spare reef]

Can't seem to find a solid answer on this anywhere so here goes, should we be stacking Hyperspeed accelerators, speed pot, and just for shits and giggles if you happen to be troll troll berserking with Bloodlust or will that over cap on attack speed?

[elfin spruce]

Don't think so

[forest ibex]

I’m not sure melee can overcap on attack speed, at least not with 2.6+ speed weapons

[forest ibex]

You stack all your damage modifiers/ buffs with deathwish and bloodlust for maximum value

You want as many swings as possible during your deathwish window

[steep swift]

I have Berserking on my main hand, but I can't afford it for my offhand right now. What's the best option? Executioner, Greater Savagery, or Mongoose?

My current gear

[elfin spruce]

[forest ibex]

U have it all set up buddy

[steep swift]

The sim says Greater Savagery, but I don't know if I trust it. It seems to undervalue Armor Pen. For example I plan to get Grim Toll as my next item and adding it actually lowers my current DPS allegedly.

I was thinking Executioner + Grim Toll would be higher than my current setup if they both proc.

[forest ibex]

Are u losing an axe?

Executioner isn’t gonna be good rn

[steep swift]

OK, I guess Greater Savagery it is.

[steep swift]

Can anyone explain why Grim Toll sims less than almost every other trinket but it is on a lot of BiS lists?

[forest ibex]

Arpen is bad pre softcap

Also are your raid debuffs configured correctly?

[steep swift]

I believe so. It automatically adds almost every raid debuff. Sunder and Faerie Fire are there.

According to the sim Phase 1 Grim Toll doesn't seem anywhere near BiS.

[wanton sigil]

Arp is not bad. Grim toll's power comes from huge hit boost as well

So if you don't need that hit you lose a lot of value from it. Try to replace other hit items with stronger pieces

For example replacing tier chest with malygos arp chest ( which is huge dps increase)

[steep swift]

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[gaunt sail]

hey is there any good guides for wotlk warrior

[elfin spruce]

The one on wowheads will get you through

If you want to be super sweaty the neckbeards in fightclub can show you how to at least stay ahead of the tanks in DPS

Link in pins

[whole birch]

Hey all, if I post logs from a 25 man raid last night can someone assist me with what I’m doing wrong? I understand warriors are bottom tier currently but my parses are so low and I feel like my rotation is how it’s suppose to be (ignore Maly encounter my child woke up mid fight haha)

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QdjHKpA4fYvmngDV/#fight=last

[steep hemlock]

if you are only about 1 or so % off of soft cap for arp, do you lose a lot of value?

actually make that about 0.06% off of soft cap

[cloud badge]

ure not spamming heroic strike enough.

u have almost the same casts of hs and bt

hs in pure single should be ur top dmg skill

in mt its cleave

remembr bt and ww on cd slam when procs

hs or cleave spam

depending on fights, there is ppl that will try to minmax the 4 tier piece with rend, but tbh the dmg increase is so low that dont even bother.

just spam heroic strike , with enough crit and flurry ull never be rage starved

[whole birch]

Yep ok so I suppose just dump more hs and don’t let the swing go to a aa unless I need rage right?

[cloud badge]

its not so aa dependant than classic imo

just spam hs, when rage low and enoufgh for 1 skill prio bt or ww over hs

if lots of rage

bt hs ww hs

hs hs hs hs

then bt

ww

hs hs hs hs

slam proc if bt and ww not on cd

lots of rage u can hs slam proc

[whole birch]

Yep ok simple enough really I suppose

[cloud badge]

slam proc if bt and ww on cd

my bad

u always prio bt and ww

but u spam the fuck outta hs

[whole birch]

Is ArP even worth the stat in this phase?

[cloud badge]

not bad, but not really

its good

but str > arp

now

[whole birch]

Ye ye sweet

[cloud badge]

so u put all those red gems str

remember to get ur hit capped

u always want that 8%

which is smt near 250 hit i think

[whole birch]

Yeah hits Allg

[cloud badge]

smt like that

[whole birch]

I have precision so it’s a little less

I believe

[cloud badge]

oh kk

remember also to use dw not on pull

[whole birch]

But na thanks for your advise, I’ll test in 10M tonight

[cloud badge]

but rather when a trink procs

then u dw with another trinka ctive or racial like blood rage for orcs

if fights are long dont reck on pull

i like to leave reck for 2nd dw

like fight starts normal opener

trink procs

blood rage dw

pumps

after 2 or 3 min idk

dw again with reck

although now every nax fight ends before 3 min

so depends on the clear speed ur ppl have

if its really fast

and bl on pull

just pop all

care with aggro tho

like i think ina situation with bl on pull, ill prepot 2-3 sec before fight, someone uses lust, hit couple times to get flurry and aggro, pop reck dw and racial or on use trink

reck is rlly uinderwhelming rn as like how it was before

but its still kinda good

[whole birch]

Sweet as, I could just google but is there a WA you use for trink procs?

Eh good for that small extra damage I suppose

[cloud badge]

i actually use one that i modded for myself wait

its called pprocs

its a wa that tracks everything for ret paladins

i disabled every pally skill

the thing is, it comes with a all trinkets and enchants proc tracker

so u have to change the display class from paladin to warrior

[whole birch]

Ahh nice nice, I’ll have a look thank you

[whole birch]

Appreciate all the advise I can see what you mean looking at logs hs should be top after looking at top furys

[cloud badge]

thats the wa i disabled all paladin stuff

and i created one for mongoose

uc an create one for executioner

u just copy the berserking aura, then u change the spell id(aura name)

u can get spell id's from wowhead

if u know the name of the proc

like mongoose proc isnt called mongoose its called i think thunder speed or smt like that

u copy the aura id number and u put it where the berserking one is, since its a duplicate u now have a mongoose or wtv enchant u want tracker

[whole birch]

Yeah ok cool as thanks man

I need enchants on weaps but gold is an issue atm

[sharp sandal]

Hi Xainho, do you have a link to this WA?

[pallid crane]

Question about macro stance dancing as I'm not familiar with how these macros work but is there a way to make a macro that changes you to battle stance followed immediately by using thunder clap and then loop back to berserk again?

[fiery ferry]

Just have your stances on convenient binds

[desert fractal]

We using rend as fury atm ?

[ember quest]

Is it best to use a 2.6 speed weapon for leveling with UA Revenge build rather than a faster one?

[frank plaza]

Any thoughts on Arms Warrior Arena BIS gems? Is it Armor Pen all the way? Or is STR/CRIT more worth?

[real dome]

Rusted-Link Spiked Gauntlets decent option as arms warr before i get tier hands?

[rich hatch]

Yes

[rich hatch]

Doesn't matter really. Slower speed for bigger cleaves, faster so you never have to potentially wait for revenge rage

[dusty grail]

Revenge doesent go off weapon damage so faster sword is better for rage.

[ancient heart]

rend only with 4pc I thought

[ember quest]

Anyone here had any experience with doing the Botanica leveling with Brutal? AKA with almost no avoidance

[ember quest]

Cheers

[rich hatch]

even without 4pc, sims higher

[fiery ferry]

Just don’t go

[toxic smelt]

Are Ravaging Sabatons an upgrade from Death-Injured Sabatons until I get the Melancholy? Fury warrior

[steep swift]

Thoughts on Druid staffs out of Naxx 25 vs other 2 handers?

[elfin spruce]

They're druid staffs

Or *staves

[charred wadi]

You dont want to use staff. Arms want polearm or axe for the weapon spec talent, Fury needs axe/sword/mace in OH for WW to deal dmg and for MH you want big weapon dmg. Journey's end is weaker than Halls of Lightning axe.

[versed ivy]

I would love to see the class statistics for wrath pop. I swear it is 75% paladin

[elfin spruce]

NGL you're not wrong

We have 6 in our 25m

And that's after telling a number of people to class swap

[versed ivy]

Lmao

Join a random Strands. 7 paladins on enemy team

[elfin spruce]

Like for some reason there was this concept that ret was a viable spec

[versed ivy]

Join a WG, all nameplates are paladins

[elfin spruce]

Holy is pumpers

Prot is meh

[versed ivy]

Isn’t prot rlly good for dungeons or whatever

[elfin spruce]

Ret is....uh... I'll have to ask why we have a retadin

[versed ivy]

I think holy and ret are just so simple and powerful (at least in pvp) so everyone just plays them

[elfin spruce]

The only tank that prot paladins is better than ATM is bears on ae threat

Lowest hp, lowest armor

[versed ivy]

Ah

[elfin spruce]

They have a cheat death for a reason

But warriors and druids do more damage while being more durable in st, dks have way stronger threat

We use a paladin for sarth because their consecrate tags the little drake's as soon as they spawn and avoids our pumpers from getting eaten

[rich hatch]

Cause prot pal is braindead

Drop conse, afk

[dusty grail]

All tanks are kinda brain dead in Wrath?

[elfin spruce]

Yes

There isn't any complex play

Like, pal actually has some of the bigger brain requirements just because you can flipperhands your way oom

[dusty grail]

Yeah I play both a Prot pally and Revenge build warrior.

I've heard druid is the most braindead. swipe, swipe, mangle, swipe

[elfin spruce]

But none of the tanks required big thought, slap buttons

Druid is harder in dungeons

Because swipe does fuckall for damage

So pumpers rip off of you, gotta tab target for maul and mangle

And they don't get free rage like warriors with charge

Single target though war and druid unmatched

[cedar scarab]

Using one enchanted tear in blue get socket or skip for str/stam to activate meta?

*gem even

[ancient heart]

roughly 46% on my server

[charred wadi]

after p1 block becomes less of a meaningful defensive layer and last stand is ultimately a weak CD to deal with tank busters. paladin have divine shield, raid sac, shield wall, cheath death and option to spec Imp LoH to deal with number of mechanics. the utility they bring is also far beyond what warrior offers. there is just so many scenarios its useful to be able to cleanse,freedom, LoH, bop, raid sac, sac or even toss a heal on yourself or others. not to mention a way to secure a blessing, a judgement, aura and a free way to have thunderclap/demo shout. less impactful in 25man setting of course but quite handy for 10mans comps.

in terms of threat all tanks are equal. doesn't really matter if one is doing more than the other when all are beyond dps. rarely is tank dps relevant as well but sure, i'll give warrior that. warriors lack of defensives or utility isn't a deal breaker either for well oiled raid groups. one can always argue its not the tanks job to cover utililty gaps and dealing with tank busters you can communicate and coordinate externals. but practically most raid groups aren't coordinated and being able to do more from tank position is quite nice.

[elfin spruce]

Sounds like someone likes snorting the glowy dust

[eager tusk]

crit or armor pen in phase 1 >?

[forest ibex]

Crit

[eager tusk]

i got 25% crit with 52% passive armor pen with JC rn and it gigslaps in BG's grnated resil is about 700-800 so its not the best in arena

[rich hatch]

If you're jc and playing arms, then armor pen can be the way to go

But it's still hard to reach rn

But fury is all crit

[elfin spruce]

Get crit to 28%ish and then dig on str

[versed ivy]

I’m so glad shit like VoA doesn’t exist on retail anymore, so garbage doing VoA 1025 every week as the only warr and 0 pvp pieces have dropped for me. Meanwhile the 1400 warrior with 1000 2s games played has betrayed and 3 pc deadly

[elfin spruce]

Git gud

Obviously the loot is due to skill

[flat shell]

Does slam reset swing timer?

[elfin spruce]

No, suspends it

[pallid crane]

This might be a silly question but two of our guildies have the eye of eternity quest and seem to think only person can loot the heart of magic. I figured that'd be a little counter intuitive but can anyone clarify this?

[elfin spruce]

Uh, I believe one at a time

But how did you get 2 quest items without doing maly the same amount

[rich hatch]

multiple people can loot the heart at the end

[pallid crane]

One of our guild members didn't get the heart of magic despitt having the quest

So they made a ticket but blizz wait time was 30 days so we figured we'd just wait next week lol

[elfin spruce]

Probably just didn't loot the heart

It's a different box

Than the boss loot

And bliz answer is going to be, wait till next week

[pallid crane]

That's what I thought but they said there was nothing after loot. But if what Trench said is true then that's good to know at least

[rich hatch]

it shouldn't ever happen in a guild setting but i was in a pug and able to loot it despite not using mine to spawn boss

[pallid crane]

That's our guild for you haha

Thanks for assurance. Good to know we won't have to wait a week behind each person looting the heart

[eager tusk]

wtf do shammys have that reduce so much dmg i just went into 2 arenas where my BS did nothing

[elfin spruce]

What spec shaman and are you charging them just before bs?

[eager tusk]

ya im charging is it a totem ?

i think ele

it might of been a reso

not sure

[elfin spruce]

Well if resto chances are they're in astral shift when you start bladestorm, have a stoneskin totem down, using a shield and have earth shield on themselves

So they have prot warrior level armor, reduce damage by 30% because you stunned them and earth shield heals for a fuckton, then after all that, they probably hit themselves with riptide

Shaman have a lot of armor, and to be fair, it's not like warriors are hitting very hard right now

[forest ibex]

Think of a shield as +5% melee resilience

From the front

• ~12% passive physical dr

[eager tusk]

showza

[elfin spruce]

Don't worry in phase 4 you'll be back to 2 shotting ev even DKs

[upper pasture]

Does Patchwerk 25 sometimes bug? I've tanked it multiple weeks in a row and his hateful usually hit for 25-30k, but when I was doing it Sunday night almost every hateful was hitting for 38k. Yes I'm defense capped.

[hoary python]

A pervasive bug in classic is that mobs hits twice at the same time

Maybe it's that?

[lilac oracle]

hey all, is it possible to do the vengeance built on a boosted service level 70 with that gear ?

[lilac oracle]

tag me or send private, need to work now

[somber sundial]

Do you mean the “revenge” build? I leveled that way with a boosted char with no problem at all.

[agile bolt]

Any1 of u knows when they will open transfers from Thekal to Golemagg?

[elfin spruce]

Had this happen to us the other night, thankfully it was on our druid tank during survival instincts so he only dropped to 14k

[hoary python]

yea i have no clue why it happens, it's as if the server disconnects temporarily from the players health and then buffers the next hit. but it makes no sense because the game engine runs on the server and not the client

[elfin spruce]

Probably a jitter in the data it sends out

[hoary python]

yea some kind of buffering

or queue

[elfin spruce]

Or just how the internet works

[final palm]

Have they fixed the pole arm in offhand not counting for whirlwind yet?

[elfin spruce]

This isn't a bug

Hell originally I don't think you could oh polearms or staves at all

Tg only worked with axe sword and mace

[final palm]

We couldn’t I didn’t say it was a bug but it worked before but doesn’t work with cryptfiend’s bite

[dawn pivot]

Hi ya'll, noob question. Is stance dancing for Fury War in wotlk a thing? If so should I just make macros that trigger a stance change for the ability used?

[elfin spruce]

Not really

[dawn pivot]

Been running prot for leveling an have not needed to stance change but looking at all the fury abilities seems like it.

[elfin spruce]

There isn't really any situation where you would need to stance dance unless you have to apply thunderclap

[dawn pivot]

Gotcha, is thunderclap not apart of the rotation for aoe as fury? OR is it just ww and cleave spam?

[elfin spruce]

Yeah WW and cleave

Tc isn't really a DPS gain

[dawn pivot]

Good to know, appreciat the info.

[ancient heart]

shattering throw is pretty much the only skill that comes to mind

[elfin spruce]

But that's mostly an opener

[flat shell]

for arms pve dps am I supposed to be using a swing timer to time slam after an auto? or mainly just using it as a filler to not cap rage? the wowhead/icy veins guides were not very specific

[elfin spruce]

Slam no longer resets the swing timers

Just pauses it

So yeah use it to dump

When WW op or Ms not available

[flat shell]

Do I use WW as arms? without the talent to keep rage between stances feels clunky?

I'm talking about pve ofc

[elfin spruce]

Oh right pve so basically just slap slam as much as you can

Like keep rend up, overpower > slam

[wanton sigil]

That's wrong

it's rend > sudden death > Ms > op ( don't lose proc if you are going to use op asap ) > slam to not overcap rage dump rage > hs

[rich bronze]

Idk why I slept on warrior for 15 years but prot is a blast so far (level 75)

Even in BGs which I don't usually do

[elfin spruce]

MS is bad rage economy in wotlk, it hardly does more than slam and costs twice as much.

[elfin spruce]

You legit almost never use mortal strike in pve

Raiding that is, maybe as you move

[wanton sigil]

?

?

Update your theorycrafting

That's private server rotation that is completely wrong

[elfin spruce]

Except it's not

[wanton sigil]

Okay chief ! Keep slamming

And delay your auto

[elfin spruce]

Literally go check some logs

[wanton sigil]

https://wowsims.github.io/wotlk/warrior/

No need you can check mine

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/40877688

Ofc you use slam between your main spells

its like retail slam

And you use bunch of it

But mortal strike is definitely better gcd

[elfin spruce]

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/74LZXzmcdCQV8Jjy#fight=12&type=damage-done&source=40

So I guess the moral is that both rotations work

[wanton sigil]

This is like only log with that and you can easily check the reason

23 sudden death procs

Where 2nd on rankings

Had only 11

[elfin spruce]

K

[wanton sigil]

Slam is like 15 rage yeah

But delays your auto which is like over %20 of your melee swing time

• your rage gain + melee DMG

it's giga good for dumping rage ( compared to heroic strike )

Heroic strike is your last choice

[elfin spruce]

Yeah idk that's the most Ms casts I've seen in a log and there isn't alot of variance between warriors who do and don't use MS

[wanton sigil]

That's old theorycrafting

But Ms is already superior with insane rage we have

[elfin spruce]

No I mean it's literally what the logs are showing

[wanton sigil]

Ppl thought we would rage starve

[elfin spruce]

You can get 99/100s without ms

[wanton sigil]

i haven't seen 2nd guy without Ms

That's the only guy with insane rng

He got sudden death every 3-4 seconds

[bleak atlas]

I dont understand why all these guides say to spam heroic strike
how do we ever generate any rage if every auto isnt generating resource?

[lilac oracle]

yeah, so you had the green shitty gear and ran solo dungeons ?

[somber sundial]

Oh.. No solo dungeons. Quested and did some dungeons in group, was no problem tanking them. But guess if you wanna powerlevel solo in dungeons that way you probably need better gear than the gear you get with the boost.

[lilac oracle]

okay tnx for the info

[steep swift]

Fury question. I have over 8% hit without talents. Should I drop Precision 3/3 in favor of Cleave 3/3 ? The sim doesn't seem to like cleave but some fights like Widow I feel like it makes my parses suffer compared to warriors with 3/3 cleave.

I took commanding presence 5/5 to add raid util but I can drop it to 2/5 and have cleave and precision.

[ancient heart]

what build are you running without imp cleave?

[steep swift]

went for raid utility for shouts. Dropped them and went back to imp cleave.

[lilac oracle]

for that revenge build playstyle, whats is the macro for it ? revenge + cleave ?

[cedar ridge]

Hey folks ,is there a discord or website where guilds advertise n stuff?

[mental fossil]

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast revenge
/cast cleave

[ancient heart]

i would advise agsint macroing cleave

bind it to mousewheel down or something

[elfin spruce]

You can starve yourself easy on cleave spam

[elfin spruce]

Since you're dual wield, hit still has value above 8%, tbh it won't make a huge difference, just stay utility until you can get that 700arp then rebuild talents and start shitting on the meters

[crisp nova]

So open question - I've been maining Arms since wotlk launch as it is supposed to be slightly better compared to fury for phase1. However, all the logs seem to show Fury slightly ahead. What's the story there? Is there like a breaking point where switching to fury is actually worthwhile?

[charred wadi]

later phase you might see more clearcut advantage for fury, or at least thats the circle jerk gospel. for p1 atm, fury is slightly ahead in terms of dps but not by much. 100-150 ish at 90 and 99-percentile if looking at patchwerk.

[elfin spruce]

Arms tends to do debuffs more often but the gap was never that large and fury scales insanely with buffs

They get a lot more out of lust and pot

[ancient heart]

I've gone from arms to fury and saw a dps increase, 100-200dps

in terms of percentile im doing worse as fury