arms

[fresh spire]

I haven't checked for 3 target for op>ms and ms>cleaves but I'll do that today when I'm free

[latent moss]

ye i simmed it too

it was a catastrophic loss at 8t

[slow saddle]

also cleave just fucking destroys ya prio target

[clever crag]

Do you get 10 stacks to send demo on the first pull of dung or nah ?

[fresh spire]

Main thing is that if you hard prio ms for demolish for most part if you manage to fit it into the Cs window it's only going to hit one target with Cs as rest has fallen off

[slow saddle]

OP extend CS when

kek

[fresh spire]

Never

We need 4p on class tree asap in 1.0

[slow saddle]

now CS is our new rend

[fresh spire]

Before slayer eats shit

[minor gust]

Better yes. Significantly better that you can't play slayer no.

[fresh spire]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1481991857369255996/GIF_20260313_122512_444.gif

[dim basalt]

Cant wait for .1 4p to increase our bleed damage

[flat willow]

i'd still play slayer in algathar just cuz colossus feels like pure ass on the bird

[fresh spire]

Our current tier bonus is so funking hard to beat when it comes to next tier as functionally it covers a lot of hole and enhances gameplay

[flat willow]

not super fun on the last boss either

especially with the balls trying to poke you while you demolish

[latent moss]

100%

peak set

[fresh spire]

Have already asked archi to ask about it as losing bladestorm extending is going to feel ass

[latent moss]

give us pile on over master tactician

[minor gust]

Arms dies with this tier set if it doesn't turn into a talent rn

[latent moss]

pile on + blord pile on

[fresh spire]

Even if only Ms extended Cs life good

[minor gust]

Nah need cleave too for the funnel

[flat willow]

no no no do not ask for it to be nerfed before its even out

[minor gust]

Losing that will suck too

[flat willow]

cleave and ms or we riot

[fresh spire]

I mean yes but same time having a talent that does ms and cleave extending will be too insane

[covert birch]

It’s funny how dumb I am I thought 4p was alright but not insane turns out I’m just dog at this game probably

[fresh spire]

Its like an 13% tier bonus or some shit already?

[latent moss]

put it in the middle

[minor gust]

Yeah make it a 2 point investmnet

[fresh spire]

Bad

[latent moss]

nah 1 point capstone

[fresh spire]

We already don't have talent points for it.

[dim basalt]

Replace Master Tactician

[latent moss]

nah replace master tactician with pile on and remove avatar

[fresh spire]

Nah that needs to be replaced with ms can stack to 2 charges to give battlelord value

[latent moss]

fuck avatar

[dim basalt]

Or just bake it into CS fuck it

[fresh spire]

[latent moss]

gtfo my tree

[flat willow]

bake avatar and ravager into one talent

[fresh spire]

Kill ravager more like

[latent moss]

keep ravager idc about ravager it at least feels good to use

[flat willow]

and add the tier set

[minor gust]

Replace ava and master tac with the 4pc

[latent moss]

cause it mega juices cleave

[fresh spire]

Give monster Cs explosion >ravager

[latent moss]

ava does genuinely nothing

[minor gust]

[fresh spire]

Even 200% more damage on Cs works out stronger on aoe and St at 5 targets than raveger

If we had Cs hits 200% harder over ravager colossus St dps is on par with slayer in keys no cap

[minor gust]

Yeah I need a CS that fucks in my life

[vapid pine]

Ava megajuicing Cleave would feel sick though, Ravager being on GCD is ass. Just reduce the uptime or whatever

[latent moss]

can just remove both

[fresh spire]

Ravager just sucks. Kill it

[minor gust]

Colossus hero tree has nothing to do with Colossus smash smh

[latent moss]

and mega juice crushing combo cleaves

[fresh spire]

At least avatar is on am now

[latent moss]

add shattered defenses

[fresh spire]

Demolish gives it already

[bright grove]

You wont be getting the 4p as talent, stop coping

[fresh spire]

[latent moss]

and make it buff all next 2 casts of ms exe cleave

[fresh spire]

1.0 warrior rework yep

[latent moss]

we are not very known for getting tiersets as talents

but its about to change

surely

[minor gust]

Next expansion will have yet another nerf to rage

[fresh spire]

This is the one time that it actually helps the spec

[latent moss]

pile on owned

s3 df owned

[bright grove]

same way slayer fury didnt get tww s3 tierset as talent, which was the only reason they were viable in m+

[fresh spire]

That tier was too busted and broke any sort of rotation as rb was just always king

[dim basalt]

Didnt hurt Fury at all to lose it

Still very viable

[bright grove]

only thing that scaled their aoe though, spec is gutted

[latent moss]

wish reap wasnt a thing ngl

and slayer just had aoe

make sd uncapped frontal

and make us do aoe through it

[minor gust]

Not more frontals

[latent moss]

true

[fresh spire]

Rral

Real

[dim basalt]

Having frontals sucks balls in dungeons like AA

I cant

[latent moss]

im aiming more in wow than in cs or valo or ow

gotta aim demolish and cleave

[minor gust]

That's why slayer owns

[latent moss]

getting range buffs for demo

goated

[flat willow]

now we buff dreadnaught

and you gotta aim even more

[latent moss]

shit i forgot

i remember positioning myself in sl

cause dn was like

all of ur aoe as night fae with enduring blows

[dim basalt]

Buff DN by 60% again ty

[latent moss]

idk do whatever that keeps prio

[minor gust]

As we continue to slowly revert all the beta nerfs

[latent moss]

cleave ms op

goated rota in aoe

best iteration of arms in aoe

it flows so well

[minor gust]

Yeah why I want DN buffs

[latent moss]

it would push op above ms

[dim basalt]

For Slayer yeah

[minor gust]

Yeah ik but right now for slayer Ms is dead in aoe

[dim basalt]

Col I dont think so

[latent moss]

at least right now its dps neutral

[fresh spire]

Op is already taking over Ms for slayer at 5+

[minor gust]

So I want DN to do dmg

If slayer is gonna be cleave op ms

[latent moss]

actually true ms does nothing

as slayer

[minor gust]

No more reap chance

[latent moss]

criminal spec

[flat willow]

rip slayer

frozenbozo in shambles

buff unholy dk by another 5%

[latent moss]

colo stills mogs it

dw

[dim basalt]

ngl every unholy in pugs is complete dogshit

[latent moss]

that spec is cope

[minor gust]

Slayer still gonna do enough dmg for me to play it so idc

[latent moss]

ive never seen uhdk beat anyone

even in 20s 21s

[dim basalt]

Im 100% convinced dk players are way worse players than mage players

[latent moss]

arms just has peak profile rn

[fast plover]

Might be because they've been conditioned to be able to ignore all mechanics

[minor gust]

I'll swap to colo when someone actually beats me in dmg as slayer

[flat willow]

unholy deals a lot of boss damage and packs mobs for me with grip

i love them

[dim basalt]

Played with a good feral yet?

[latent moss]

played colo yet?

xdddd

[dim basalt]

Feral is insanely close to colo

[latent moss]

idk not for farover

farover is like 50k above on overall

[minor gust]

Ssshhhhhh actually only time I've lost today in a 16 AA feral pumped

[latent moss]

aa just terrible dungeon for arms idk

play colo pad on first boss

[minor gust]

I didn't do well in the first boss room and boss

But owned rest of the key

[dim basalt]

same here on my 18 AA

[latent moss]

ye first boss room is bad for arms

[dim basalt]

Ended bird with like 115k dps

That was a giga blast

[latent moss]

hoooly

skyfury

fed

🍽️

[flat willow]

I know it's algethar academy but feral kinda owns

[dim basalt]

ye had good procs during amp

[latent moss]

he played colo there i think

outlaw mega owns too

someone said they are getting a big buff as well

[dim basalt]

Outlaw gets super buffed in .5 I was told

ye

[latent moss]

ye

[minor gust]

Yup

Sub getting a good buff too

[dim basalt]

rip assa once again

[latent moss]

man its pissing me off

[dim basalt]

lmao

[latent moss]

why are they playing uhdk over

the other mega mao zedong spec

the chinese

like they play demo/ddh aug uhdk

[neat granite]

????

[latent moss]

why not demo ddh aug

[neat granite]

Assa is better in high keys

[dim basalt]

We will see in .5

I know its good rn

[neat granite]

And i play sub

It will remain so

[latent moss]

it steals my funnel

[neat granite]

Sub is front loaded and short, assa scales w size and duration

[latent moss]

how much does assa funnel nowadays

[dim basalt]

Assa also requires more than 2 brain cells

As opposed to sub

[latent moss]

crazy world we live in

where assa is harder than sub

[neat granite]

Yeah i mean at the key level that assa is better youre using more than 2 braincells anyway bud

[minor gust]

[latent moss]

where arms is one of the hardest spec

[dim basalt]

Poor sub was button pruned like crazy

[latent moss]

same with arms

very pruned

so pruned in fact we lost nothing

[dim basalt]

dk players disagree

[neat granite]

Counterargument dot specs are cringe

[minor gust]

Pruned then unpruned

[latent moss]

ye arms is foreshadowing

the last titan unpruning

[flat willow]

its to prepare for the rework

[latent moss]

there's also like

[flat willow]

big big

[latent moss]

nothing to prune

except making ms aoe during ss or something

and removing cleave

[dim basalt]

Time to return the bad version of SkS

[latent moss]

but that would suck

[flat willow]

you are going to end up with 60% of your damage in a key being ms

[latent moss]

tww s3 sks

[minor gust]

Prune our cds

[latent moss]

goated

[minor gust]

They had it right in alpha

[latent moss]

true

mega juice cs

remove ravager and avatar

that's all they had to do

and they were on the right track

but people cried about losing ava on forums

[flat willow]

remove rav and avatar, add back battlecry

[latent moss]

csuse they thought we were losing dmg

average wow player

[minor gust]

Omg how can arms do dmg without its main cooldown!

[latent moss]

mega cluegi

ravager is a bigger cd

probably

[minor gust]

Pray for the 12.1 rage forum post to hopefully get us at least a bandaid rage buff

[flat willow]

bandaid rage buff, skyfury now has a 25% chance to proc another attack

[neat granite]

Feel like we need to pull a hammer of wrath and shut down the discord for there to be positive warrior changes

[weak wave]

Except for - 20sec Demolish CD 😂

[latent moss]

need to be 10 stacks

ye it builds cm faster

but does infinitely less dmg

and loses a full cast of cleave

[eager current]

guys does dungeon slice work for us?

[fresh spire]

Sims aren't set up to fully run correctly on dungeon slice.

Doesn't hold cds for add packs etc.

[floral ledge]

U guys sure that we got buff in slayer mm + next week ?

[wintry scroll]

Yees

[floral ledge]

explain me the maths then

[fresh spire]

St up aoe down

[floral ledge]

talent will change ?

[flat willow]

wouldn't call slayer a buff for m+

[vast helm]

MS & OP buff for sure

[slow saddle]

For the love of god y

Just let op give 10 rage

Or somethin

And hs needs 2 work like sd

[mild sierra]

Its still miserable without skyfury

[slow saddle]

If hs worked like sd no

[cyan veldt]

Hello, quick question about Vanguard in Mythic: when there are only 2 out of the 3 Paladins left, should I still use cleave or not?

[dim basalt]

Only with collateral stacks

[stark ether]

Man, I feel like I’m doing something wrong in M+

My damage is good on packs, but when it comes to bosses I struggle

[vapid pine]

They balance around raidbuffs being available, then we play M+ and cry. Horrible design

[cyan veldt]

Thx

[slow saddle]

Collosus?

[stark ether]

Yup

[slow saddle]

Well

St sucks

End of story

[fresh spire]

You should be more worried being first than third on bosses that are fully st

[slow saddle]

Yup

Only suggestion hold cds if big amp phase inc

[bronze nest]

any1 know where I can find the "no heroic leap "
text i've been seeing a lot

[stark ether]

Well what I mean is I’m literally fighting the tanks sometimes for 3rd on bosses

That’s why I feel like I’m doing something wrong lmfao

[mild sierra]

Thats legit normal

[vapid pine]

It'll get better on Wednesday as we get buffed on ST, also we are heavily reliant on funnel to do proper ST damage. If you can pull trash onto bosses we do tonnes better

[stark ether]

Oh thank god, I legit thought I was just being dumb

[odd helm]

can someone explain the funnel more for me?

[vapid pine]

You do more damage to a boss if you have small adds next to it to activate parts of our kit. Not only more damage because you're hitting separate targets, but also more damage to the boss itself.

[odd helm]

interesting do i change anything or is it just a factore of hitting more or standing near more stargets?

[vapid pine]

Basically just doing the normal AOE rotation does more damage to your primary target than doing the ST rotation

I think you can prio MS over cleave on low targets (2 only maybe?) but that's for someone else to confirm

[bright grove]

2 targets you do ST rotation, while adding SS

[odd helm]

got it thanks! Biz's new guide has been super helpful

[bright grove]

Biz explains the funnel too

[lucid dagger]

How good does rage generation feel

Is there a lot of starvation

[vapid pine]

You cleave over slam on 3 stacks too right?

[flat willow]

on slayer it's fine, on colossus in st it's very bad

especially without a shaman

hope you like charge weaving

[astral yarrow]

without a swing timer

🙂

[tidal acorn]

With the increased CDR for demolish will we just send it outside of colossus smash in aoe?

[lucid dagger]

I honestly dont play warrior/melee enough but i didnt like rogue bcs of energy starving

[bright grove]

Actually not sure. You lose the swept slam then 🤔

[alpine falcon]

Ofc you send cleave on 2 targets with 3 stacks.

[umbral badger]

yo guys where do we find the final sims for 12.0.5 , can it be ound in any of the channels here ?

[void oak]

Hello, I am new to the warrior and to the game, although I tend to be a bit interested in tuning; I don’t have enough experience to understand if next patch is an up or a nerf of the warrior arms.

[bright grove]

Source?

[dim basalt]

ctrl + f

[viscid lotus]

tldr, colos nerf to AOE increase in ST, slayer is just only good in algethar now xd

[void oak]

Oh ^^

[umbral badger]

yea yea just looking at final sims generally to see the difference in ST

[dim basalt]

I think theyre still being finalised

[viscid lotus]

someone posted in a few days ago

dunno if its pinned

[dim basalt]

Fishy said hes still testing some stuff

so

[umbral badger]

ok ty, and are they posted at some channel here?

[bright grove]

nothing of value searching for "2 target"

[dim basalt]

Upon request maybe

[umbral badger]

ok so no official c hannel for such sims , ty.

[viscid lotus]

3 stacks of cleave, under 35% you send it on 2 targets

there a video Biz made about the entire colos and slayer setup

and the do's and donts

and how the complex of the class changes here and there

[bright grove]

In ST you only cleave with 3 stacks above slam, so i guess its barely better. But 2 targets you get double slam value + more HS procs.

[viscid lotus]

it wouldnt slam in 2 targets

only 3+

[bright grove]

ya

thatswhy im curious about that cleave at 3 stacks

doesnt seem right, but maybe still worth below 35

[viscid lotus]

only below 35% with mass executioner

yes

other than that youre fishing for HS procs and mortal striking

[bright grove]

ok

[dim basalt]

#arms message

[unkempt axle]

I've see this chann, two days ago

[viscid lotus]

this is what I was referring to @dim basalt

[polar sundial]

hey guys! pls help: do i press demolish without colossus smash? and avatar and ravanger i delay for smash rightt?

[dim basalt]

Values may no be accurate, but something you can hold on to

[viscid lotus]

yeah gives a general idea

hopefully they throw in a MS buff and maybe OP if lucky

[dim basalt]

Right now demolish always with cs, will change with patch. Avatar and Ravager always with CS

[viscid lotus]

dont delay sending cds for ravager tho, its best to send on the next colos smash than to hold

[unkempt axle]

Idk why Blizzard want to change slayer, was good before why this change ? i dont get it

[dim basalt]

We stopped questioning their decisions long time ago

[hasty pumice]

I feel like you will still want to align CS and demolish unless CS is still applied, no?

cause the demolish stacks also make your overpower stronger in the meantime and they probably dont desync like crazy

[viscid lotus]

well you should be able to keep up smash for the next demolish with how fast you should get it back

so you will send without eventually

[hasty pumice]

perhaps

[sudden owl]

I think they want reap to be more consistent and less rng between pulls, and bladestorm to do more damage. Cleave is over tuned. I think that summarizes the changes that affect slayer.

[bright grove]

With patch, cleave losing mortal wounds and slam gaining it. Still worth then on 2T?

[umbral badger]

yea saw the m+ build oen

just curious to see how improved is the ST builds

[umbral badger]

not sure what's the context here , but i think it's 2 demos per CS cycle is what's gonna happen now, so one demo will alwys be either at the very end of a CS or without CS

in 12.0.5 AoE scenario

[unkempt axle]

Probably but now Slayer will be far behind colo for M+ ?

[polar sundial]

whatts begges diff between slayer vs colossus?

[dim basalt]

I cba doing the math rn

[sudden owl]

idk about those numbers posted, but there will probably need to be more compensation buffs anyway because of how much reap carried small target counts

[dim basalt]

Every 2nd demo cast maybe, else you lose a lot of casts

When according to sim theres a demo cast every 17-ish seconds

With cs, at least

[sudden owl]

I think it's easy to see what they are trying to do but whether they do it right or balance it is not the strong suit of the (assumed) 4 man developer pod working on all the classes right now lol

[weary compass]

Is that patch hurting or helping slayer arms in keys?

[sudden fox]

Vanguard is truly such an ass fight

[mild sierra]

According to the sims that keep getting linked it is getting a slight ST increase, but it loses aoe

Same with colossus, but the ST gain is larger and you only lose aoe on like 5 targets

[sturdy flicker]

Anyone know how much avoidance you get from the rings from seat

Most of my bonus rolls are going into that dungeon for the gloves wondered if those rings are worth following through and getting a set

[bright grove]

Btw, why are seat gloves not on the Wowhead BiS list?

[slate pewter]

how do you guys sim for m+ high keys guys? dungeon slice seems a bit random

[dim basalt]

dslice is not maintained

Just do patchwerk with more targets

[slate pewter]

thanks !

[mild sierra]

Cus they are better than other gloves

And glove is good offpiece

[bright grove]

wat. thatswhy they are not on the list? 😂

[mild sierra]

Oh they arent

I misread

That list of gear only uses raid gear

Thats why

[bright grove]

No it doesnt.

[mild sierra]

But it does have the nexus ring

And windrunner gloves

Ye idk

Bis lists arent a thing anyway

Just sim

[bright grove]

I know, but still 😅

They are on the list for fury

[thick kelp]

they arent bis

cuz they have bad stats for arms

the crit haste gloves just simply sim better in aoe and st

in bis bis setup

if u just plug the seat gloves its -2.5% dps

ring combo is aroun the same ish dps in ST as the bis list on wowhead but loses out in aoe

[bright grove]

Then @sturdy flicker should maybe reconsider using his rolls there 😄

[thick kelp]

I hope any same arms otp isnt rolling for those

[olive nest]

Arms only gamers

[thick kelp]

[ionic mica]

Some of the dungeon loot pools are horrible for bonus rolling

[bright grove]

Pit seems good (for arms)

[candid kindle]

That list is just an idea of the bis that drops in raid. Every case is different you have to always sim your character for every upgrade you get.

[dim basalt]

Remove bis lists already

[mild sierra]

There is a 0% chance that you lose 2.5% dps from using seat gloves over crit haste ones

[sturdy flicker]

Also depends on the content your doing and if u playing fury too lol

They're really good for st

[polar sundial]

guys would you suggest crafting weapon even tho with the changes next week? or is there an accessable weapon that i can farm on mythic track? no right? just from raid and i recon its last boss?

[undone aurora]

when it says mortal wounds now triggers from mortal strike and slam, does that also include when slam is upgraded to heroic strike?

[bright grove]

You can get myth weapon with the bonus rolls from M+

[halcyon valve]

yes

[polar sundial]

so dont craft better? @bright grove

[undone aurora]

okay nice ty

[halcyon valve]

always good to remember this little line from the heroic strike talent

[undone aurora]

ahhh cool good to know

[bright grove]

I would probably look if you get weapon from vault or rolls next week, and then maybe craft if you need the power spike.

[serene thicket]

me press cleave after patch tomorrow or me press MS once before me press cleave? me play same?

[civic sphinx]

for some reason i cant seem to do good damage as Colosus

any able to possibly help

[dim basalt]

Constantly re-read the prios while hitting dummies, repeat every 30-60 minutes

Thats how I learn new specs

[hardy sail]

If I see the numbers, I wonder: is there any reason to stay fury? I mean Arms would be better or equal in any scenario and never behind on a raid Boss - or?

[dim basalt]

Arms is the better prog spec already so

[pulsar frost]

Is it really tho

[polar sundial]

yeah but what guide to trust. wich one of the differnt guides has the most indepth information. for m+ rotation and minmax?

[dreamy sandal]

Dunno, but I am sure somebody knows

I would guess just play like before

[olive nest]

Nothing really changes drastically prio wise

[pulsar frost]

Hi brewjj how is you

[olive nest]

You’ll want to MS on cd practically to get demolish as often as possible

[olive nest]

Not too shabby, chill Monday morning..
How about you?

[pulsar frost]

Start of the day so not to bad

[olive nest]

Bonus rolls in PIT probably omega value

Weapon, neck, ring

All great

Good odds

I’m probably going to bonus rolls for a guidon ngl XD

Might be a waste long term but ehh

[pulsar frost]

I mean is it really a waste plus we havw lots of months left

[olive nest]

Buddy and I were just talking about that

Probably in this tier until August atleast

[pulsar frost]

Plus aren't you being funneled gear

[olive nest]

Considering we are just starting .5

And .7 is ahead

[pulsar frost]

What more can bonus rolls do for you anyways

Ye turbo is coming rather early into the season which I dont think is that bad

[olive nest]

I’ve gotten pretty damn lucky with gear this tier ye I have no complaints whatsoever

[pulsar frost]

Im still debating if I wanna bonus roll on fury or arms gear

[olive nest]

No real wrong choice just roll for items on whatever spec you enjoy more

[pulsar frost]

I enjoy both equally besides arms in raid thats not vanguard

[olive nest]

This raid is going to fall over with 15% buff and 290 ilvl

I would not sweat any decisions whatsoever

Play whatever is fun

[sharp goblet]

is rolling nexus point actually any good?

[olive nest]

Not for arms

IMO

Ring sets cool but not technically best

[sharp goblet]

so it's better to grab double crit rings then?

hmmm

[latent moss]

not very good to me

[olive nest]

It’s better to grab whatever droptimizer says is good at 289 from dungeons

[pulsar frost]

Oh yeah. Not worried about raid. As long i get my heart and gaze on mythic idrc. Just gonna do keys anyways

[latent moss]

loses on both st and aoe for me

[pulsar frost]

Void from next is good no?

200 crit and 90 hate is kinda good

With wedding ring you're pretty much set

[latent moss]

ye thats bis

[sharp goblet]

yeah, but the other one isn't great

[olive nest]

Wedding ring owns

[latent moss]

that one and eye of midnight technically bis but for me

vorasius ring sims like crazy

[olive nest]

Pit is easily the best bonus rolls dungeon

[latent moss]

adn that one from beloren i think

[pulsar frost]

I mean should still run nexus. Espically if you ain't touching mythic lura

Anytime soon

[pulsar frost]

Is it? Isn't it crit and mastery. Ain't you better off judt getting m+ rings if you ain't decently touching mythic bird

[sharp goblet]

Vorasius ring is Crit/Vers but veary heavy towards crit as well, and it's good

[olive nest]

Cones gear probably leans more haste or mastery so it wants the giga Crit ring

It’s all up to the sim haha

[dim basalt]

cone has shitlow haste

iirc

[pulsar frost]

catn really see just not taking the key rings that give both haste and crit

unless you just have that much haste or somethign

[dim basalt]

icy-veins and wowhead are essentially the same, the maxroll one is supposedly good too

[latent moss]

nah im just simming as colo

i think

pit ring omeg asimming

as well

wedding one

[mortal rivet]

What is wedding ring?

I’m guessing AA ring

But no clue

[thorn stream]

purloined wedding ring from pit

crit haste

[mortal rivet]

Oh this nice. And the neck from pit is dope too

[thorn stream]

as is the weapon

[pulsar frost]

pit is just arms favorite dungeon

it plays nice and isnt hard as well

[thorn stream]

like arms

[mortal rivet]

Shame all my tokens will be spent on chimeras

[ionic mica]

chimaerus' loot pool is so small you will be done with it soon anyway

[pulsar frost]

eeedepending if curios count or not

if it doesnt its just 2 rolls on prot loot spec

[latent moss]

make sure

to do it in prot lootspec

u cant get oozing one

in prot

[pulsar frost]

but ye its pretty much done in 2 weeks

without rng ofc

[ionic mica]

chim is the ideal boss for this new system

[mortal rivet]

Yeah cause even the boots would be fine, not good but acceptable

[ionic mica]

would be typical blizz if tier tokens are included

[latent moss]

i dont have myth chest

so i fw tier

[pulsar frost]

can tier them

and then it would be good for arms

[proven veldt]

do we know if items are removed from the bonus roll loot pool if you already have them?

[mortal rivet]

Exactly

[latent moss]

yes

[pulsar frost]

they dont

[mortal rivet]

Probably not

[proven veldt]

lol

[pulsar frost]

only if you get them from bonus rolls

[proven veldt]

3 different answers!

[pulsar frost]

read the post

it tells you

[mortal rivet]

No 2 of them are the same

I agree with Morse code

[proven veldt]

I hadn't read it in a while but I appreciate being chastised

[mortal rivet]

It’s the warrior way

But it’s also the blizzard way

Just because it’s logical doesn’t mean it’s real

[latent moss]

i mean he asked if theyre removed from the loot pool once u get tehm with bonus roll

[bright grove]

good thing i already got gaze and vora trinket, can focus on dungeon rolls

[latent moss]

they are

[mortal rivet]

No he said if you already have them

Not if you have them from bonus rolls

[proven veldt]

yea, I meant if you got one from raid/vault etc.

[mortal rivet]

from how they explained it you would still get it, but from a logical perspective you shouldn’t

[pulsar frost]

so it only gets removwed if you get them via the rolls if you already have it you can get it again

[lucid dagger]

What is better hc gaze+heart or myth from dungeons?

[warm fog]

Myth what

[bright grove]

simyoself

[lucid dagger]

Are you aware that sims show BS early on?

[nova marsh]

Ooo nice

[lucid dagger]

Because you gear/stats are so messed up

It might sim you smth really bad as smth really good because at that point of time it weights you in certant direction

[crude mantle]

guys -- give it to me straight, are we cooked next patch or still good? colossus still bis?

[polar sundial]

guys should i run colossus while gearing my char in 10s? or go slayer. ST feels so omega dead

[ionic mica]

the changes are good

[ionic mica]

whichever you enjoy more

both are good, just good at different things

[polar sundial]

i mean i have 245 gearscore so not sure wich spec does better there xd

[flat willow]

Colossus looks good, I'm not convinced about the slayer changes

[ionic mica]

the answer is the same then, do whatever you enjoy or try them both out whilst you gear

[polar sundial]

okey perfect thanks ❤️

[thorn stream]

its not so dire imo

[viscid mica]

Not having deep wounds on aoe isn’t death for slayer?

[slow saddle]

i mean it hurts for sure

but

u got 20% bigger bladestorm

[mortal crag]

time 20mc
its a 0 log
only 9 other warriors have it logged
I had 191k on logs
played with aug that ruined funnel 2nd boss
5 other warrs had 192-195k
i had no druid OR shaman buff

[flat willow]

deepwound removed from cleave isn't going to hurt nearly as much as mortal strike not proccing reap

[hard dragon]

Whart

Dawg that change is so ass

[ionic mica]

big BS is cool tho

[mortal crag]

u just full send colo

always

[ionic mica]

oh for sure

already colo 4 lyfe

[flat willow]

big bs is cool but slayer already feels when you don't get sudden procs

next patch > no sudden death, no big bs, no reap

[hard dragon]

Yeah slayer feels like shit when you don't get procs

[flat willow]

no maiden

[ionic mica]

thats proc life

get proc have fun

[flat willow]

yeah, but next patch is worse

[hard dragon]

Rip ST CD rot

[ionic mica]

or better, if you proc 🙂

it would be nice to have some baseline of guaranteed SD procs

even if its just in cds

every 5s in avatar or something

like hunters as dark ranger with black arrow procs

[hard dragon]

"Hey guys, you know how slayer loves BS? Well, we're gonna make it to where you get less RtS procs on ST so you can't use BS as much! 🙂 "

[flat willow]

rts doesn't reduce the cd of BS, it's slayer strike that procs sudden death that gives bs cdr

[split ocean]

What is Best/easiest arms bang for your buck spec for Vangsurd raid fight?

[ionic mica]

colo no contest

[split ocean]

Ty

[flat willow]

you should have the same amount of bladestorm as before the patch, it's just that now when rng screws you, it will screw you more

[ionic mica]

cleave and sweep like a madman

[latent moss]

bro aug on 2nd maisara ruining my funnel

pisses me off so much

[nova marsh]

sigh

tank learning in a+10

Dude seriously

[flat willow]

i never even learned what aug does

do they just cc from their dps rotation

so the skeletons die?

[latent moss]

something like that ye

its annoying ash

[nova marsh]

also yes they do

[ionic mica]

they have knockups as part of their rotation

[nova marsh]

upheval is like their main button

[flat willow]

oh so that's why my interrupts sometimes disappear into the void...

just another reason to hate aug

[nova marsh]

yeah

It's annoying

[ionic mica]

even better, sometimes things get knocked so high they are out of melee range 🙂

and in the case of books in AA, they just float there for a bit

[dim basalt]

Which addon is that btw

I still use Angry Keystones which is so much worse

[nova marsh]

warp deplete

[dim basalt]

tyty

[bleak iris]

I miss WA

[hard dragon]

I miss when there wasn't a tank shortage and tanks weren't dumb 🙂

[rain fiber]

Are there going to be recommendations or a way to sim where to use the rolls?
For instance, a boss could drop your bis, but other 3 items are trash, is it worth it to roll for it to secure the item for 4 other weeks or roll for other bosses where every drop is a small % increase regardless of what drops

I remember there were dinar guides during TWW S2 and S3

[nova marsh]

Chief

there's always a tank shortage

JNot as bad as this

but always

[bleak iris]

U can pick bonus roll instead of the vault item and gamble too

[hard dragon]

Never noticed ig since I mained tank

[flat willow]

tanks were nearly immortal in dragonflight so the tank shortage wasn't so bad

then healers cried cuz they were useless

so every pack could just delete a tank in 2 seconds in war within

[nova marsh]

na

[hard dragon]

True

[flat willow]

now nobody wants to play tank

I'll always remember my first +10 with a blood dk in war within s1

on the first 4 mobs the blood dk just died 1st frame

another tank player lost forever

tbh I'd quit too after that

[bleak iris]

Try algethar now without monk

[hard dragon]

Lost as in lost in his own home

[nova marsh]

they cried because blizz made up for the tank damage

with party dam

for df

which didn't even matter

[autumn nexus]

I havent a clu what changed day over day but Im doing blasting damage as colossus arms, but still kinda bad st

[undone aurora]

in 17's and above are you guys basically just sending defensives on cd

like not literally but like

for most damage

I feel like I majorly underuse die by the sword

and the issue is like generally I don't die so i'm like

well it wouldn't have killed me

so I didn't need to use it

but I feel like I should use it way more, but I struggle to know when and how often

[mortal crag]

Actually unplayable

[native merlin]

Hello guys i have a question ! Regarding the sudden death that triggers “Reap the Storm,” is that still the case ?

[nova marsh]

yes

it will still be the case on tuseday

[native merlin]

Ohhh it will be sad 😢

Other question ! Wich one spec will be better in keys with this patch do you think ?

[mortal crag]

@latent moss u coming to the 18:00 arms 20s stream?

@native merlin colo

[latent moss]

stream

[native merlin]

@mortal crag And slayer will be behind a lot ?

[nova marsh]

Slayer will still have better ST opverall

Please get me out of here

[native merlin]

@nova marsh so it will be the same...In high key it will depend of the comp right ?

nothing will change so much right ?

[nova marsh]

Colo is probally even further ahead and yes you'd want solid ST classes

If youre playing colo

[flat willow]

with the changes everyone will play colo in m+ except the diehard slayer fans

[native merlin]

i'm playing slayer atm with ret and Unholy

[buoyant cargo]

So if we have a crafted weapon can we upgrade it with voidforge to 298 or only myth track weapons to 298?

[flat willow]

you can upgrade the craft but i'm not sure if they will be 298 or 295 to remain 3 ilvl lower

[nova marsh]

It says crafted are eligable

[ionic mica]

it just goes up to 295

its a +ilvl thing

[buoyant cargo]

But is it a +9 itemlevel upgrade?

Ah k i see. Ty

[ionic mica]

still big but might be worth trying to get a myth 2h first idk

if it is a huge deal im sure itll turn up in a guide about 12.0.5

[mortal crag]

ragishwow

ttv

[nova marsh]

LMAO?

[slow saddle]

what did u say

[fair gust]

if i upgrade a myth weap to 289 - but sometimes later get another myth track weapon with better stats - can i somehow transfer this upgrade over or how does it work?

[slow saddle]

Funnel me baby

[sacred zodiac]

what you get

[nova marsh]

All I said

was we can't time if tank keeps dying

[slow saddle]

lel 😄

good times

[nova marsh]

party lead defended saying they were learning and I'm like "this is a 10...but okay)

[hard dragon]

Dude, behind the curve gaming is actual torture

[nova marsh]

Literal instant kick lmao

[nova marsh]

I know

I'm just trying to fill up vault

[slow saddle]

i mean

[nova marsh]

I'm gonna push on warr next week and try and catch up lol

[slow saddle]

10s are so easy its learning

[hard dragon]

This is the shit they must do to terrorists in gitmo

[nova marsh]

Buddy

[ionic mica]

all other items in the slot you have at 289 will cost 0 crests to upgrade, just some gold

[nova marsh]

10 minutes over

LOL

I get that the season is easy but like

[hard dragon]

Last 10 groups I had for my key have been bricked

[nova marsh]

dude was pulling as if he hadn't even played spire before

[fair gust]

ah sry i meant 298 - with the new voidforge thingy -

[nova marsh]

I don't want to be mean to new tanks

[fair gust]

is it still the same?

[ionic mica]

oh probably not

but no idea tbh

[hard dragon]

Nah people were mean to me when I was a new tank and I learned

[nova marsh]

It's just so funny

to get insta kicked after the key is done

[fair gust]

got the vanguards weapon on myth - but mostly plaing arms so but w/e

[nova marsh]

Never had that happen before

[ionic mica]

unless your vault is only a 2h weap with better stats i think you just send the vanguards mace to 298

the stats arent that big a deal and phishing for a 2h with crit haste might take ages

the gains wouldnt be worth using a bonus roll token on

[hard dragon]

If all you actually said is that this isn't gonna be timed because tank keeps dying then that's not even toxic. They need to know they're bad to improve idk

[nova marsh]

I mean

was vote abandoning too toxic because I didn't wonna spend my time with a tank dying evrey 5 seconds

[hard dragon]

No, being held hostage is toxic

[fair gust]

ye i figured that - mostly will hope for gaze on vault or use bonus roll there i guess xD Still havent seen it a single time

[nova marsh]

True

I got held hostage when I was exhausted on my rogue

couldn't play

[slow saddle]

yes

[nova marsh]

I got flamed lmao

[slow saddle]

but being toxic is needed at times

ive ben called thatt

today as well

[hard dragon]

But that's not even being toxic, that's just being real

[nova marsh]

Dude I got called evrey word in the book on that key

[slow saddle]

i mean these days my brother

[nova marsh]

I got cursed out

[slow saddle]

its the same thing being real and being toxic

i told a warlock he should use interrupts

in a 15

he had 2

like we timed it and all

[nova marsh]

how far in?

[slow saddle]

but come my dude

nono finito

i had 25

[mortal crag]

i think learning on a 10 is fine

[nova marsh]

As long as like

I am aware before the key starts

[slow saddle]

and he died

yeah so this key was set as competitive

[nova marsh]

if you tell me that, I'll be fine cuz the expectation is set

[flat willow]

after a while you gotta fill up your vault in +12, cuz +10 become unplayable

and that's right about 2 weeks ago

[sacred zodiac]

idk man when you join 10s you can get screenshots like these

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/711337973274378270/1495475854359400629/image.png?ex=69e70aac&is=69e5b92c&hm=a1c9cdc8b695b52ee665cbfac7753ff14fb025273e06737a4c4932a86538e4bc&

[olive nest]

The best feels

[pearl jasper]

First time trying arms this season. I know the base damage of demolish was buffed, do we send it on CD? regardless of number of might stacks?

[sacred zodiac]

nah you wanna align them with warbreakers

watch the biz guide on youtube he'll run you through the basics

[nova marsh]

bro

I just died

dragon breath in pit

[sudden lynx]

so you basically dont send any cooldowns without warbreaker?

[nova marsh]

I was in plunge

[sacred zodiac]

pretty much yeah

[sudden lynx]

how much better is colo in m+? just tried slayer in keys for the first time and it feels so much better than colo

[sacred zodiac]

they just do different things, whether its better depends on what you're intending to do

[slow saddle]

Slayer will carry u just fine

[left shard]

we play st spec on chimaeron?

or cleave slayer

[hard dragon]

General rule of thumb is go colo if your party has good ST already. Otherwise go slayer

Also depends on what dungeon you're doing

[dim basalt]

For your average key you can just play whatever

[hard dragon]

I think AA is bad for colo

[jade grove]

hey, on arms ST builds we don't have cleave but instead we have whirlwind. Do we use whirlwind or are we just rotating between mortal strike, overpower and slam/HS?

[dim basalt]

At some point like 17+ and higher colo takes over with a few exceptions

[hard dragon]

But yeah just play Slayer until you feel really solid on it and know the dungeons/comps then try out Colo

[pearl jasper]

will do, tyty

[sudden lynx]

im fine playing both but pressing ravager feels bad

[hard dragon]

When do you press it?

Because you should be pressing it before popping cds

[upper sparrow]

how tf is my 250 feral alt doing the same single target as my 278 warrior….

[sudden lynx]

yeah before cds, just feels weird to press idk

[hard dragon]

Taste thing ig

Rav has never felt like, to me anyways, a very impactful ability

Except for maybe S1 DF Prot warrior

And maybe WoD, when it was introduced

[full obsidian]

Skill issue

[olive nest]

Feral kinda owns

[nova marsh]

I'm just

not gonna say anything

*also don't ask me why Warp shows scourgelord twive I have no idea

[undone aurora]

stupid question but on ST colossus is it still the same in terms of always aligning with warbreaker

[olive nest]

MONK spotted

[final rose]

The new change for arms are one up or nerf ?

[undone aurora]

also do I still spam the 3 cleaves on ST

[nova marsh]

The mistake was trusting brew again

[olive nest]

True ye

[nova marsh]

actually no

it was hunters

always hunters bricking my key

[loud fjord]

watch what simcraft does

[pulsar frost]

Like 80% of tanks this season are brew monks

[nova marsh]

I hate it

[pulsar frost]

So you're gonna have a hard time finding a group that doesn't have one

Edpically higher

[nova marsh]

well

more incentive to just

Not push higher

because I hate the gamba of brew

doubble 3k is fine enough

[nova marsh]

Oh

He rage quit

he's holding key hostage

I get to afk for 2 minutes

[mortal crag]

@latent moss sending 20s now

[nova marsh]

LMAO

He randomly decided at the end to just die to mobs to end the timer

[thick kelp]

gamer

[mortal crag]

live

:3

ragishwow type shi

[slow saddle]

What gamba?

The spec isnt

[mortal crag]

skyreach20 time

[slow saddle]

Or playerbase

[nova marsh]

playerbase

[slow saddle]

Ah

Y such is meta tanks

[olive nest]

Spec into your colossus M+ build
Run a Patchwerk 1T 3minute sim with raid buffs off except battleshout then scroll through the ability casts and look for what’s cast during the second or third duration of CS (this is because you won’t have ravager for these, and it will answer your question)

[nova marsh]

The thing is because brew is so different

people just can't play it

or they just spec dps

[thick kelp]

why arnt u skyhold streamer

[rose ibex]

I feel like a lot of folks don't have raider io or can't see your warband io for some reason

[celest iris]

Do you still use cleave on two target/

[thick kelp]

yeah under spcific conditions

[nova marsh]

Just with max collat ye?

[olive nest]

[thick kelp]

or ravager up

or best scenario, both!

[slow saddle]

Fam half the issue is they leap around and turn arse 2 adds

[silk zealot]

Hey guys may i ask how much overall u guys pulling, i have no idea if im doing ok or not

xD

[thick kelp]

what key what level what comp

[slow saddle]

No way 2 compare

[silk zealot]

9-12's

all comps im not pushing yet but wanna see the panorama

[final rose]

Sad that slayer gonna underperf...

[silk zealot]

or a way to see if im doing good or thrash

[kind stag]

in my experience if you are pulling 110k avg you are fine for those ranges

more than fine considering some terrorists exist

[fervent cedar]

Slayer is still very playable after .5 changes

[olive nest]

The people you see posting 200k overall screenshots have a tank that pull 15 mobs every single time and drag adds onto boss

Don’t sweat it

[mortal crag]

holy

rsham can pull birds

on 2nd boss

we're about to fucking cook

this 20

[olive nest]

Wait in AA or?

[mortal crag]

SR

[silk zealot]

That's all really helpfull, i was maining tank, then swap to dps but started on SBA and now just starting to get used to the rotaton

[mortal crag]

sending it rn on stream

[olive nest]

Oh right right

[silk zealot]

and was like

no idea if im good

but i guess im in the range

[kind stag]

play slayer until you get comfy with the spec and especially if you pug often

colo is baller but requires tanks to be playing with you kinda

or at least you having good knowledge of puls

[olive nest]

Ehh idk about that I think tomorrow is Colo always

It’s just going to be owning

[silk zealot]

i see, rn im just pug, no team so far nor the idea of one soon

pulling around 110k at 274 without foods or pots

colossus tho

[kind stag]

on paper yeah, colo is just harder to play objectively and its better if people play the easier thing they will always do more dmg

[kind stag]

you're fine, more you play higher it will go

[final rose]

I hate playing colo in pug but with colo doing more dmg in St i will give it a try

[nova marsh]

Dude why is filling vault agony

[kind stag]

i generally still feel uncomfortable playing colo

slayer is giga comfy i love it tons

[nova marsh]

Dude in that pit

I had giga sd luck

I was decimating those packs it was awesome

[olive nest]

You gotta farm crests anyway filling vault ain’t that bad

[final rose]

Slayer is cosy and fun not colo

[fervent cedar]

This season is piss easy for filling vault but the pug creatures are no joke this time around

[nova marsh]

When you have team mates with actual braincells

I stg xalath isnt the affix now

Its the playerbase. Get me to 12s already theyre so much more fun

[fervent cedar]

Then just play slayer you're chillin

[olive nest]

They just made 10s more accessible so do your weeklys in 12s lol

Win for both parties

[nova marsh]

Yesh after next week

[fervent cedar]

There's creatures in 12s too tbf

[nova marsh]

Im pushing for resil on warr hard

[silk zealot]

whats the high we can farm 16 crests on 12's?

[olive nest]

Yes

[nova marsh]

Not anywhere near as bad as the crap i experienced today

[final rose]

But i want to push so...

[olive nest]

You got it in the bag! Glgl

[fervent cedar]

Both hero talents have timed 20s, youre fine either way

One key may be better for one over the other but you can honestly get away with either if you know what you're doing

[nova marsh]

Honestly im 1,000 sure I can do it easier and faster on warr

Rogue is pain

[final rose]

True

[nova marsh]

But warr os home

[fervent cedar]

I feel this

Every time I pick up an alt there is some piece of war I remember and miss

Leap, SR, charge, or just the feel of the rotation idk warrior just hits different

[nova marsh]

Its mostly defensives for me

After years of experience I have a great idea of what will actually kill me

For evrey other class its "oh if I cant use my big cd I pray for heals"

Well besides dk ig but fuck dk

[shadow osprey]

Dk is sitting there singing payphone while big damage goes out

https://tenor.com/view/aaaa-hola-como-andy-martino-dance-gif-18551524

My dk still feels tankier than my warrior being over 10 items lower

[final rose]

I m not feeling so tanky as war this season

[rare kite]

wat, i don't think arms has ever been this tanky before. it's crazy

[nova marsh]

Running stance mast

[rare kite]

stance mastery op

[olive nest]

It is omega value if you are good at stance dancing, worth the practice

[nova marsh]

I stance dance a lot but I'm just running commander

[rose ibex]

Feels kinda boring to play though... utility is insane for sure

I wish spillover rage gave us ignore pain shield

[nova marsh]

also

DK is stupid

Even after they gutted lichborne it's still busted

[shadow osprey]

Honestly ams is the real culprit. That thing is just insane

[nova marsh]

until the boss does physical

But I mean...that's like 2 bosses this season

[shadow osprey]

Which honestly doesn't matter because you wear plate and they have to scale the physical damage down anyways to make it fair for clothies

[warm fog]

Being a plate wearer with amazing anti magic is the best combo

[latent moss]

idk dk feels like paper to phys genuinely

paper is an overstatement obviously but

i feel way safer on warr vs phys

[warm fog]

Fortunately for DK physical damage isn’t as common

[hoary fable]

How do we feel about Arms changes tomorrow? I'm too stupid to decipher the impact.

[shadow osprey]

While I don't disagree almost all raid damage is magic

[umbral badger]

you'all are wrong, warriors are much tankier than dks, emotionally.

[latent moss]

ok but warriors take 0 dmg in raid

i watched kha prog lura

last week

[warm fog]

Col ST buff for a minor aoe nerf, good

[latent moss]

for like an hour

and he is perma 0 dmg taken

and he played slayer arms which is the squishiest by far

[warm fog]

Doesn’t really make sense tbh

[latent moss]

i mean the aoe nerf

is a nerf in a vacuum

in m+ its most likely a buff

[umbral badger]

WE WARRIORS have been tanking much more emotional damage than dks ever did >.<

[latent moss]

since packs usually die pretty fast into ur 2nd wb+demo

[umbral badger]

dks did not even tank the first nerf they recieved 😮

[latent moss]

and at that point 1 extra demo is a lot more value than deep wounds

[humble thistle]

yo guys, new to arms from fury. on 2 targets, do I use SS with MS over cleave?

[fervent cedar]

Yes, you only cleave in 2t and st under certain conditions

[rain fiber]

Yep, on 2T you follow the ST rotation, Cleave only with 3 stacks of Collateral Damage or when Ravager is up

[fervent cedar]

When ravager is active and if you have 3 stacks of collateral damage

[humble thistle]

I see, thanks

im just trying to figure out the correct things when I am starting vanguards prog today

[fervent cedar]

Colo, when all 3 are together big cleave hours
Hold cds for CS
Ravager is merciless bone grinder on a button and buffs your cleave
When they are together cleave > everything else
Otherwise you do ST rotation with SS

P simple and very fun

[humble thistle]

so it's not like fury where you basically send everything on CD

on arms I hold everything until CS is back?

they should align relatively well

[pulsar frost]

should always fit demo with CS, avatar should try to align but i think you can just send avatar if not mistaken

[pliant heath]

Thoughts in the new patch notes for warrior ? Am I wrong or is arms aoe being cucked

[pulsar frost]

arms aoe is good tho

you get 5 sec demo cdr

[fervent cedar]

P sure its generally better to hold avatar for your cs windows but i could be wrong about that, should check logs for that and see what others are doing

[fervent cedar]

They shifted some of the damage into demolish by making it more frequent

[pulsar frost]

losing one charge of cleave sucks but its not that big, bleeds gonna be lowerb ut doesnt really matter

[fervent cedar]

It'll still be quite good

[pulsar frost]

its just we're gonna have more demo which is sick

[pliant heath]

Hmm interesting. Was thinking the mortal strike damage would be a massive change losing cleave form it

[fervent cedar]

Nah slayer is fine

[pliant heath]

Slayer looks better now though

[fervent cedar]

You still have reap off cleave and reap off SD, and now bs is 20% stronger

[pulsar frost]

slayer is kinda worse now

[pliant heath]

Curious how it's gonna work out

[pulsar frost]

if not mistaken

since MS proc

[pliant heath]

Idk I think reap from cleave is gonna be. Nuts imo

[fervent cedar]

You do have MW on slam now tho

[pulsar frost]

didnt cleave already proc it tho no?

or am i high

[fervent cedar]

Before it was cleave yeah

[pliant heath]

I thought it was just mortal strike

[pulsar frost]

nah

it was both before

[fervent cedar]

Ms and cleave before

Now its ms and slam

[pliant heath]

They why was it even mentioned

Did it not overwhelm before ?

[lyric pier]

im dont undertand how you guys telling this is a buff how

[fervent cedar]

Again its just them shifting aoe power out of certain parts of our kit and shifting it into our cds, both hero talents will still be good

[stoic oyster]

colosus losing 3% aoe but gaining 8% ST

[pliant heath]

Dominance taking 5 seconds vs 2 seconds is big for Colossus

[fervent cedar]

^

[lyric pier]

-5% dmg on mortal strike, cleave and slam
no more cleave deep wounds
free cleaves down from 3 to 2
for 5 sec cd on demolish and slam applying deep wounds, and it's a buff ?

[stoic oyster]

its huge, maybe a bit too much

[umbral badger]

as i always say, ppl often forget to pay attention to the non-direct parts of a skill. demolish increases dmg taken of the enemy by your skills and increases your haste

more demolish is more of that

[radiant patio]

do you guys macro avatar into anything?

[floral tide]

Also it's more than 5 seconds reduction

[pliant heath]

It does seem drastic, but us losing those extra cleaves and bleed damage , this should make up for it maybe .