arms

[hollow herald]

In .5 what change for us?

[analog carbon]

What is the SD one you mention that we’re not getting?

[hybrid needle]

Arent we all

[slender sonnet]

I think my raiding days may be reaching their end

[hollow herald]

Why?

[hybrid needle]

If gingi can raid so can you

[rain fiber]

is there anything I should macro together as arms? Like fury does with Reck+Avatar

[rare kite]

no

[sharp dust]

CS with ava if youre lazy

[umbral badger]

brother i was planning to push odya until i am done with all 17s

but i don't even feel like going into m+ before the upcoming changes

😮

[hybrid needle]

Anyone got some logs or meters from their 17/18s as arms

[warm fog]

What scenarios would that be a bad thing

[minor gust]

Scenarios in which you wanna press CS but not ava

[minor gust]

SD not requiring 2T to proc reap

[sharp dust]

you might use CS on 5 mobs and your next CS is gonna be on 20 so you might wanna use ava for the second one 😛

[umbral wagon]

then just have a separate button for CS that isnt marco'd as well. its not like we dont have the bar space lol

[umbral badger]

k i guess am gonna go play some other games until next week xd

[minor gust]

Kinda defeats the purpose of macroing it together in the first place

[umbral badger]

i wanna play the upcoming colossus 😛

[keen siren]

im reading the patch notes for next patch and it says

Imminent Demise no longer causes Sudden Death to trigger Reap the Storm.

wtf

does this make slayer dogshit now?

[minor gust]

You are like almost 2 months behind

You are not reading the right notes

[warm fog]

Collosus got more CDs than some specs have rotational abilities

[umbral badger]

btw i think arch said there is still one round of tuning for 12.0.5 ? do we have any update about it

[warm fog]

But yeah

[umbral wagon]

no? because you use the macro 90% of the time and the 10% of the time you make a call to hold ava and just press CS

[wind hatch]

thats what I do lol

[minor gust]

Hence why I said kinda

[wind hatch]

kinda but im just used to it lol

[hybrid needle]

Just put them next to each other and fatfinger when u want both

[keen siren]

ohhhh

i see now im reading it

[umbral wagon]

facts

[umbral badger]

when do we get to see the last tunning changes guys 😮

[keen siren]

ok but st will be bad tho

wont it?

[minor gust]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-dexter-morgan-idk-gif-2440520923239485215

[keen siren]

Imminent Demise has an additional effect – When Sudden Death strikes multiple targets via Sweeping Strikes, you have a 100% chance to trigger Reap the Storm.

[minor gust]

I don't got connections like Archi does

[keen siren]

st will be dogshit for slayer?

[minor gust]

Hate to break it to you

But you are still out of date

[keen siren]

lol

[sharp dust]

[minor gust]

Everything about that SD change is reverted

[sudden owl]

also the st is kind of bad anyway

[umbral badger]

i am just hoping they won't decide to gutt warriors somehow in the last tunning changes 😄

[keen siren]

Imminent Demise no longer requires Sudden Death to damage a second target to trigger Reap the Storm.

jesus

[umbral wagon]

He was getting closer, should of just let him keep going

[minor gust]

Lmao

[sharp dust]

just follow https://discord.com/channels/148872210742771712/1234949058121171069 haha

[warm fog]

Almost there bro keep going

[keen siren]

what does this change tho im confused

[minor gust]

I don't think they have released consolidated official 12.05 patch notes yet

Just wait till then

[umbral wagon]

literally nothing, it was reverted

[keen siren]

its all over the place haha

why dont they remove that then

[minor gust]

It's all over the place cuz you are reading a timeline of changes throughout the last month

[keen siren]

oh ok so its the same then thats good

[uneven minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-meme-spongebob-squarepants-plankton-butt-gif-5131530756556900361

[warm fog]

Blizzard cooked up some big 0.5 changes that were all awful (warrior ones, ray of frost charges, etc) and then canceled them all

[uneven minnow]

this is all the content places releasing content development updates without combining them into net changes

[umbral badger]

exactly when you try to read it now you can just miss a week's worth of update and get the wrong impression 100% correct

[minor gust]

Y'all are welcome for the Slayer SD revert. Was all me. Humble brag

[uneven minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/minion-banana-gif-minion-minions-gif-81650879192259967

[umbral wagon]

/bow

[wind hatch]

our humble king 👑

[minor gust]

Wouldn't have happened if not for my top tier forum post

[warm fog]

Great can you get working on some fury buffs

[minor gust]

Fury who?

[keen siren]

if they actually went through with that slayer would be so bad

reap is like ur top dam

[hybrid needle]

Whats the overall dps difference from coll to slayer currenty?
My slayer is way weaker somehow. M+

[minor gust]

Not even just the numbers it would have completely killed the great gameplay slayer had

[warm fog]

Better ST worse aoe

But both good

Both worship at the cleave altar

[minor gust]

You would go back to ignoring SD in aoe which is terrible for slayer

[warm fog]

It was such a bad change that it was possible they would do it

[keen siren]

slayer should feel solid, its honestly more fluid and fun than coloous

[umbral wagon]

yea it would of nuked a lot of its M+ viability for sure

[umbral badger]

yes, if anything it would be only warriors with hero skill "aka slayer strikes and demolish" that don't do a lot of dmg

[keen siren]

i love slayer

[umbral badger]

compared to enhance shamans or such

[keen siren]

reap looks sick, love bs

[umbral badger]

but now we get demolish to do more dmg and slayerstrikes to still be strong so not bad

[keen siren]

slayer does more consistent aoe dmg, with collous ur reliant on ravager to do big aoe but slayer u get bs back up so quickly u can get 2 bs in one pull sometimes

if ur lucky with procs

[minor gust]

Well I was fine with the 2 target compromise they did but ill take a full on revert

[umbral badger]

naaah that's craaazy talk, slayer is the one with proc based AoE 😄 colossus always has high aoe

[minor gust]

colo aoe is very consistent

just bigger spikes with ravager

[umbral badger]

colossus zero proc dependency aoe game play is, if anything, what many ppl love.

[minor gust]

Slayer and colo both have good consistent aoe

[keen siren]

but u get procs all the time

[smoky kayak]

I mean that's really not true

[umbral wagon]

that would just cause a lot of stray mobs to find their way to the boss mysteriously

[umbral badger]

why not , what procs are we hoping for in AoE

[minor gust]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-gif-502627409480164820

[hybrid needle]

If colossus pops rav against a group below 35% is just the most satisfying peak

[warm fog]

You still kind of need good crit Luck

[smoky kayak]

Battlelord is a proc, crit dependent effects are procs

[umbral badger]

i mean we are comparing to sudden death kind of procs

[keen siren]

u get sd procs often

its more consitent dam

[smoky kayak]

you can try to disassociate it all you want, but both still have the influence of RNG

[umbral badger]

i get where you are coming from but i am doing an equation where we just get rid of similar variables and just comapre the outliers :p

[keen siren]

u need ravager to do max aoe dmg

[minor gust]

even then colo still has great consistent aoe

cleave owns

[keen siren]

yeah but slayer does too and ur not reliant on a big cd for it

[minor gust]

yeah not saying it doesnt

[umbral badger]

so if we say "both have crit so lets lets count that out" then we are left with slayer sudden death sometimes procing 20000 times

which i hate

[minor gust]

both are very good rn

[umbral badger]

cuz sometimes i dont' get any

[hybrid needle]

Idk if im doing something wrong but i gain like 10k st dps on slayer while losing 50k+ Constant aoe

[smoky kayak]

why would you say that though? Slayer's effects aren't crit based

well, not as many of them anyway - Slam DW still is

[keen siren]

slayer aoe is not spiky, the longer the fight lasts the more overall dmg youll do, its good in higher keys where mobs take longer to kill.

[umbral wagon]

I would say the choice between the 2 is more comp reliant than anything. both have their pros and cons with RNG mixed in

[minor gust]

slayer does less aoe than colo thats how it is. You are gonna get higher overalls as colo. But pushing keys isnt always about overalls. Slayer is strong and very much competitive with colo and prob better in pug situations

[umbral badger]

dunno , probably because the difference in AoE of not getting sudden deaths in an AoE packs is too big when combined with other variables ?

[keen siren]

theres no way u get much more overall dmg as collous compared to slayer

and slayer st is miles better

[minor gust]

again colo aoe is very consistent

[keen siren]

you do tank dmg st as coloous

[umbral badger]

like that's just how my brain works xd

dunno what to say

[umbral wagon]

I mean does ST really matter when your group pulls mobs into the boss for you?

[smoky kayak]

Ok, but that doesn't mean you just ignore Colossus' variables

[minor gust]

^^

[keen siren]

that doesnt always happen it depends on the tank lol

[plucky fern]

people here can spend days arguing whats better for keys colo or slayer
but the answer is both

[keen siren]

if ur pugging that doesnt happen that often

[minor gust]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[umbral badger]

ah, not at all bro, even as colossus it feels aweful when we don't get enough crits. just not even close to as aweful as slayer not getting sudden deaths.

[umbral wagon]

well im talking about an actual group, not a pug

[hybrid needle]

Im aware of that, but im a small brain and more overall is more dopamine.
Whats the expected overall difference? Cause im 20-30k behind

[smoky kayak]

ok then why did you say "both have crit, so we'll ignore that"

• you can't ignore it, because they both do not have the same dependency on crits

[keen siren]

both are good for sure, im just saying i much prefer slayer, its way more fluid and has a better flow to it

[minor gust]

depends how much funnel colo gets on bosses

[keen siren]

imo

[umbral badger]

i mean if i am being honest my biggest hate for slayer gameplay "or even the entire modern fury warrior" is how random the procs are

[minor gust]

its not set in stone colo does this much always

[plucky fern]

slayer in skyreach/academy/nexus
colo in everything else

[umbral badger]

and that hate is primarily about BS reset

[hybrid needle]

In the keys ive run so far it was zero lol

[umbral badger]

i hate that sometimes it resetts in 30 seconds nad sometime sin 1 min

:p

[smoky kayak]

in fact, if you wanna know the real secret, Slayer actually has a slightly smaller damage range at lower multitarget counts

[umbral badger]

but i have to admit i did enjoy slayer recently more than the past

which is probably cuz of how doing sudden death in AoE gives you nice mortals

i wish i could do that with colossus

[keen siren]

sd exe procs feel so good to press

[minor gust]

Its true!

[smoky kayak]

it's very slight

[umbral wagon]

i honestly love to run slayer in most of my keys, its more flexible to my playstyle. Doesnt mean colossus isnt better for said key though. They are both close enough to play what you want and not be trolling

[smoky kayak]

and does grow at higher target counts, but it's still the difference of like 10 -> 12% vs 10+ targets

[umbral badger]

yes, to me i just enjoy seeing big mortal crits cuz of it

[minor gust]

[umbral badger]

that is interesting

[minor gust]

12.05 will require some testing but colo might end up pulling further ahead of slayer in keys

tho slayer still wont be bad

just harder to compete with colo

[umbral badger]

but man i wish they'd just make it so that colossus does not need to use execute and rely on stronger slams below 35%

am so done with execute as colossus

[minor gust]

boy do I have news for you in 12.05

[umbral wagon]

its ok, just have your brewmaster fat finger roll as you start to wind up ur demolish and pull all the mobs out of it before it finishes. You will love slayer after that lmao

[umbral badger]

to be fair if i get even 5k to 10k dps out of colossus ST in m+ i'd be more than happy

[minor gust]

colo will basically only execute if you have excess rage

[hybrid needle]

Every time

[umbral badger]

yes which is to say, worse play style than even before.

just make it so that executioner precision is 20% dmg if you slam under 35% maybe 😄

or if you straight up slam IDC

[minor gust]

you still have SD procs

which is higher prio

[umbral badger]

yes that's another design cancer issue to me

i mean look execute is fun but they clearly don't want it to be a colossus thing then why do we have to path through all the execute stuff i don't get it

well

i guess it's a story for the next season or the next, or even the next expansion.

design wise

[umbral wagon]

speaking of next season, ill be sad to see the 4p go. I like the extend mechanic

[hybrid needle]

Well, if the only difference is rts vs demolish, would it really be a different Talent tree?

[minor gust]

yeah we need to somehow convince blizz to give us 4pc as a talent

losing that funnel is gonna suck hard

[umbral badger]

i need a way to not even see my SD procs in AoE so it does not tilt me that it's glowing but it's too shit ot use 😄

[minor gust]

hey thats how slayer would play without reap procs on SD!

[warm fog]

A thoughtful tree design that doesn’t punish one hero tree is a big ask

[umbral badger]

i don't know about that, i'd rather have more power in the 10 seconds than spread over 20, it would give us less issues in bsos fights like crown of the cosmos where warriors suck, cuz long CS targets swawp before you are done with your CS is over.

[umbral wagon]

you saw what they almost did to reap, that is just asking to be monkey paw'd

[minor gust]

Nah funnel is one of the most premium dmg profiles in the game

im keeping that shit if I can

[umbral wagon]

yea it helps me feel like im not padding. (im still padding anyway)

[umbral badger]

oh that's not what i meant, i just mean that longer CS dependency is making us struggle in certain situation like target swap in second phase of crown of cosmos

ofc i did not play it on mythic so i don't know how it feels there, but i know warriors re doing so badly at least.

[umbral wagon]

situations are few and far between like p2 crown target swap. Arms cant cover every situation ya know?

sometimes you just have to target swap anyway and shead a silent tear

[warm fog]

I mean just accept you are dog water in p2 compared to all the ranged cleave/2 target specs

[smoky kayak]

tbf it is kind of synergistic - you're talking into SD and EP, which give one another value

I also don't think it's necessary and would prefer if you could just skip both for something more universal instead, but it's not wholly useless

[wide needle]

I hope it stacks

[minor parcel]

any good povs of warrior dps on beloren mythic?

[smoky kayak]

Conceptually, I think Fatality should swap with EP, because it makes sense that investing in Execute leads to the big Execute buff and that the build investing in MS resets has synergy with Fatality procs, but it's also worth pointing out that Fatality isn't very good in Mythic+ type content so it still might not exactly be better

[torn nest]

Do we know how big of a buff the ST will be on the next patch for colo?

[smoky kayak]

At this point you'd be lucky to find bad Warrior DPS PoVs on Mythic Belo'ren

[minor parcel]

youre a blaster. you guys progging it yet and have any vods of early fightt at least?

[smoky kayak]

here I'll link you the same thing every other Warrior is looking at on that fight

[wind hatch]

[minor parcel]

fuck. ill tell my tanks to go prot warr and bench me then.

[thick kelp]

hit the boss, cleave adds and dstance if u get smth

[smoky kayak]

^ there's not really much going on in the fight that isn't on H

[echo plume]

raids are shit for dps warrior anywayzs

[smoky kayak]

it's just more

[smoky kayak]

I mean they're really not, only the last couple bosses

[thick kelp]

last 3 specifically

[smoky kayak]

Arms might end up "ok" on MFalls

[thick kelp]

the ones that matter

[minor gust]

Arms has p3 atleast for crown

[analog carbon]

is 2x arcanoweave the go to for raid and mythic plus?

[echo plume]

that's why i'm saying this, i'm on them, and i just want to get benched at this point

it's just unfun

[smoky kayak]

fair, but saying the whole raid is shit is really just not true

[echo plume]

that was frustration talking probably

😭

[smoky kayak]

just go prot

[hybrid needle]

Just reroll udk already

[echo plume]

OR just take a little vacations for beloren & alleria to die

[fresh spire]

merge CT and EP

no execute, no bonuses

[umbral badger]

oh shit we need to make a forum post about that, fatality can defo be fine as a colossus identity thing more so that EP as things stand atm

[inner wasp]

should i switch to devourer

[umbral badger]

@fresh spire btw since you are here, i've been thinking about this. you know how our op "or bleed for that matter" does more dmg with 10 stacks of colossus might. but before this change we would sit on 10 stacks for a very long time. compared to what's gonna happen in 12.0.5. i know the cycle will be "faster" anyway, but wouldn't it still make so that talents that increase dmg per stack are weaker now that we stack same speed but reset much faster ?

i feel the 3% dmg bleed thing might be in need of some love eventually at this rate

[fresh spire]

ST where we use the bleed talent it will be exactly the same

[umbral badger]

i see

and ofc the OP dmg thing

[umbral badger]

i like how you answsered in 2 seconds, you clearly already done the work on that you did not evne need to read my entire thing xd

[smoky kayak]

it's been brought up since beta, but again it's not necessarily a great solution since Fatality doesn't provide very much value in Mythic+ either

[umbral badger]

time for some 1994 games until next week

[umbral badger]

hmm yea but does fatality at least improve ST more ? i'd assume so

but i don't have the numbers to know

[smoky kayak]

I'm not sure it really matters, you rarely want to make design changes that could just be accomplished through tuning

[minor ivy]

They buffed colossus aoe and nerfed reap proc chance? Are these new 12.0.5 changes I’m reading 0.o

[umbral badger]

i think fishy said that it is not AoE buff overall

just ST

[smoky kayak]

they didn't actually buff it, it was adjusted from 20 -> 15 -> 20 all on the PTR

• Arms Slayer is noticeably up in ST, slightly down in MT
• Colossus is noticeably up in ST, marginally down in MT

[umbral badger]

although it might be practically buffed if the pull takes a long time nad you have enough time now to demolish part of the pull and regain it when things are stacked

but that's too indirect

[minor ivy]

Hey guys 15% slam and ms dmg, our st is fixed!! XD

We can beat tanks now

[smoky kayak]

more likely the opposite, but it's very difficult to put a precise number on it, since M+ pulls vary so much from group to group

[umbral badger]

yea such things are if anything impossible to just simplify in numbers cuz every tank is pulling differently xd

like i can see someone doing it for say "top tanks" cuz they are much more likely to do same solid pulls but that won't apply to 99% of the player base

[umbral badger]

either way the one factor ppl are less focused on of the buff is actually the survivability factor. which i am very happy about !

more demos, less dmg taken, solid shit.

[smoky kayak]

it doesn't really matter, Colossus has plenty of AoE to spare, so a small +/- either way is irrelevant

ST is where it needs help and ST is what it's getting

[dim basalt]

dunno, we are nearly invincible anyway

[smoky kayak]

if you're smart about DStance you should be

[umbral badger]

yup and maybe we will be even tankier than thane with it ?

[smoky kayak]

most players are too dumb and selfish to use it though

[hybrid needle]

proceed to pull Demo in some stuff you shouldnt stand in
OMG THAT HEALER

[dim basalt]

You dont even have to use DStance a whole lot

[minor gust]

omg but I lose dmg if I press dstance for 3 seconds!

[smoky kayak]

You don't need to, na

[dim basalt]

Just using SR very regularly does so much already

[umbral badger]

like literally when i play slayer i feel like a fking paper if i don't D stance sometimes

but as colossus when you demo you feel as if you are in in D stance every time you demo xd

[smoky kayak]

same thing applies really, knowing when dangerous damage is coming before it happens is legitimately the biggest skill gap for most players

[dim basalt]

agree

[umbral badger]

and now we get that 10% less dmg dealt by enemies to us more often

feels good

[dim basalt]

DBTS on the first stings in MT is a must

[smoky kayak]

even applies offensively as well - knowing what mechanics are coming up and using that to inform your cooldown timing is something players massively under appreciate

everyone thinks they're amazing at pushing their buttons

[daring prairie]

nothing like sedning ur cds 5 seconds be4 an add wave

[smoky kayak]

but the vast majority of players are extremely reactive, rather than proactive

[daring prairie]

yeah best way to play the game is to use logs to predict the future

[umbral badger]

trust me i know what you mean, i die inside when i see warriors say 'going out to drop pools" for 3 seconds without swapping stance. like it's a free thing to do if you need 3 seconds to go out.

[smoky kayak]

I mean that's not quite what I meant

[umbral badger]

ahh

you mean when boss is about ot do aoe too

[smoky kayak]

they obviously know the mechanic is there if they're moving out for it

[umbral badger]

or something

[smoky kayak]

I'm talking about being cognizant enough to press SR before the big blast of AoE damage comes out, or not pressing CS right before the boss runs away

[umbral badger]

well either way, i do agree that ppl need to use D stance more cuz it's less mana / pressure on healer to waste

[reef prairie]

dstance is actually so broken

especially with the talent

whatever its called

[dim basalt]

stance mastery

[umbral badger]

btw arch, are enemies "affected by demolish" after demolish cast is over or when it starts ?

[reef prairie]

that one

[umbral badger]

for this to be specific

[smoky kayak]

if they're hit by it, they're affected by it

[stray vessel]

so is it still slayer ST?

[umbral badger]

so does the dmg reduction go up to 20% during demolish ?

[smoky kayak]

up to 10%

[umbral badger]

cuz we have the 10% dmg taken less during demolish and the 10% enemies doing less to you

but one is the dbeuff and one during cast

so i was wondeirng how that works

[dim basalt]

ye

[stray vessel]

alrighty tytys

[umbral badger]

not on the game to test on dummies basically but it is an interesting small thing to learn

[smoky kayak]

damage reduction is multiplicative, so no, but the two can be active at the same time yes

[umbral badger]

ah ok

ty

that can sometimes be an interesting thing to know i guess

[smoky kayak]

perhaps but not particularly practical, since you should not be trying to time demolish defensively

you have much better defensive tools for that

[dim basalt]

Especially with the upcoming changes

I imagine the average player to miss a lot of casts because theyre holding

[reef prairie]

damn you can have near perma uptime on that dr after .5 in aoe right

thats pretty good

just for more passive tankiness

[dim basalt]

60-70% uptime is pretty good

assuming 2T

[reef prairie]

67

[umbral badger]

yes that's why i said most ppl are overlooking the defensive aspect of it

kinda neat

[reef prairie]

yea but its not like you play around it

[umbral badger]

feels like maybe that would make colossus far ahead of thane in tankiness "maybe"

[reef prairie]

no

[umbral badger]

yea it's just an uptime thing

[dim basalt]

nah

Fury still has the perma 10% dr from enraging

[reef prairie]

fury two weapons of stamina + warpaint and the thane hero talent for dr on thunder blasts

[umbral badger]

yea we do have 5% dr as colossus too

and then there is 10% from Demo

and 9% from arms tree ithink

the two handed thingy

so maybe at least thane nad colossus would be comparable wiht high demo uptime ?

at least

[dim basalt]

4% avoidance

The stam still makes a difference but it will be closer at least

[umbral badger]

i tell you as i played colossus for so long now when i play slayer arms i feel like fking thin paper

[uneven minnow]

Why does sim seem to favor haste?

[umbral badger]

probably cuz 4 set exists

at least i assume so

[spring vale]

is there a catch up on the weekly 1% buff we can get in raids

[dim basalt]

Every ability is hasted and more haste means more SD procs

[spring vale]

or you cannot miss a single week

[umbral badger]

and more haste = longer CS with our 4 set basically

[dim basalt]

If you have a lot of crit other stats catch up, its normal

[umbral badger]

not sure how much % haste for 1 more second on CS

like you can specifically feel it during BL how long your CS is even as colossus

[calm surge]

How much of my damage do you guys think the aug gave me in this ten pits?

[rare kite]

50k

[umbral badger]

my question every time i am with an aug, sometimes they push me to 200+k and sometimes i feel i am not getting anything xd

yesterday i had such an insane fking aug

he made the dungeon look so easy

i never knew they can do the things he did

[mortal crag]

RAAA

[umbral badger]

the aug yesterday would re-position monsters in a way where they are all in my cleave, would do stuff to make us ignore mechanics, would keep us all healed if the healer is dead "i assume it's him who kept us alive xd"

and all those things that he did while also making us do shit loads of extra dps

never had such a good experience with aug before

[rare kite]

god i hate aug so much

[dim basalt]

I hate dks

[spring vale]

hey man hate on dogmentation dont hate dks

:(

[umbral badger]

trust me i hated it until yesterday, the guy boosted my dps by alot literally just by how he re-positions monsters although i don't even know what that is and what hey do xd

[livid cobalt]

“Hi, can someone explain why my damage is so trash? xD What’s my problem? I honestly can’t see it.

[rare kite]

someone being good at a spec that i have a fundamental problem with doesn't change anything for me. i do not think the spec should exist and i think it only brings problems to WoW

[umbral badger]

ahh yea i get that, but then that's just a preference i guess. i did love "enchanters" in other games like league of legends personally.

[dire hinge]

i'd recommend posting the actual WarcraftLog URL into #1347646810457636974. There isn't much we can get from of a picture because i dont even know which boss you're fighting, or on which difficulty (you cropped it out)

[livid cobalt]

ah ty

[dire hinge]

of course! we acn definitely take a look though

[rare kite]

it's not the same enchanters in league of legends. i think enchanters can be balanced in league of legends, tho i guess you could compare it to yuumi in league of legends. i think yuumi fundamentally breaks league of legends and it's a champion that is either OP or trash, just like aug

[umbral badger]

yes and i can see the argument that any enchanter type in wow can be problematic anyway.

like if enchanters are as easy to apply their buffs as healers are to heal that sounds like such a very simplified "dps" play style

[rare kite]

yee, tho aug can be balanced if they just swap around its damage profile. like if it does 90% its own damage and the remaining 10% is from others, that way it's still a support spec(atleast compared to other classes). whereas right now it's kinda just "is aug tuned high, if so it fits into every comp"

[umbral badger]

so i don't see how you make a "pure enchanter" that is not so easy to play or invent a new way for enchanters to work

[spring vale]

in the other raiding game, dancer is equivalent but the percentages of the buffs it provides are nowhere near as crazy as aug though

but it is very easy to play

[umbral badger]

like if a pure enchanter class "so not aug" gave same dps as a player would do but not subject to enemy positioning that would be so fking easy to play and ass and probably every grp wants one

[umbral badger]

oh yea that's what i mean basically

[rare kite]

yea, extremely hard to balance when it's as buff heavy as it is now

[umbral badger]

you'd want it to be more to interact with enemies where if your team hits the enemies they get a buff, but then that's just not an actual enchanter...

dunno i'd ore lean into all healers being enchanters though

every single healer spec getting some small enchanter identity

[rare kite]

not a fan of buff classes/specs

[umbral badger]

also remove BL from all specs and give it to all healer specs so that grps would stop declining my warrior ass cuz they need "BL"

[spring vale]

i had a key where we didnt have a bl somehow and it was ok

if I had noticed I would've brought drums oops

[umbral badger]

yea i always bring drums too

[spring vale]

maybe i should always carry some

just in case it happens again

[umbral badger]

i mean if they made drums 25% no one would need BL in m+

i remember it was the case in the past

that drums was 5% weaker than BL or something

[rose ibex]

I do not understand blizzard tuning. Why nerf dps monk?

They arent doing great in m+ or raid

[loud fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-jerry-mouse-oh-really-what-did-you-say-gif-4567866740137164332

[daring pagoda]

On mythic vanguard when one paladin is away ulting do we revert to ST prio list and hit a manual heroic strike as it won't proc from fervor?

[wind hatch]

yes

[rare kite]

they used to be 25% in legion/bfa

[ionic mica]

good drums and raid buff scrolls

get them in

66% strength or something

[wind hatch]

only difference in 2t compared to st is that you gain collateral damage stacks

[mortal crag]

RELEASE THE KRAKEN

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/W8zXPh7N6rV41dMA?fight=last&type=damage-done

CHAT DID WE COOK

@thick kelp

[dire hinge]

[latent moss]

bro tell ur rogue to lock in

outlaw mogs

[dire hinge]

[latent moss]

arms just mogs assa on funnel ig

is arms the highest funneling spec in the game or

[umbral badger]

given the fact that fervor does more dmg than mortal strike "if you include cleave dmg + 50% stronger slam dmg" i am not surprised :p

and for cheaper rage

[summer cargo]

How is arms on st ?

[astral yarrow]

its not worth knowing

just do aoe

[raw sapphire]

is details buff uptime broken?

[dire hinge]

pretty sure yeah

look to logs for that

it's not details itself though, it's the WoW meters that can't display it right (details just reskins it)

[scenic pivot]

why is arms ST so bad

[dire hinge]

beacuse we're a funnel spec now

[scenic pivot]

what does that mean

[dire hinge]

your ST drastically increases if you can bring more targets into a fight

by hitting multiple adds, you can pump more dps into a single target

[scenic pivot]

it makes playing arms on some dungeons feel very bad (for me atleast)

[umbral badger]

because blizzard will always for somew reason balance mages/warlocks/hunters/dks as if they are not paying attention and balance warriors as if they walk on needles

[dire hinge]

your AoE should more than make up for the lack of ST across the dungeon

[scenic pivot]

it does, but on hard ST fights it sucks

[dire hinge]

your job is to get your dungeon party swiftly to the next boss by absolutely deleting trash

if possible, you can pull trash into the boss and it'll make you do more boss damage (but i know this is abnormal in pugs, and not possible on all bosses)

[umbral badger]

for multiple reasons blizzard always balance arms as if they are gonna destroy the world if they go 1% over the average but it's fine if you are 40% below average :d

[dire hinge]

you can also look into playing Slayer if you want more boss damage, compared to Colossus

[wind hatch]

using rerolls on pit of saron next week will be insane

literally everything there is good except for cape

[sacred zodiac]

wouldnt you rather use those on raids or am i misunderstanding the system

[umbral badger]

OH SHIT I FORGOT, what is this reroll system

[umbral badger]

yea i am now confused cuz eveyrone sid something xd

[wind hatch]

to my understanding you can get 2 items per week from dungeons whereas you can only get 1 from raid

[sacred zodiac]

ok just do the dungeon a few more times or

@magic canopy

just smashed my 84-inch TV in a fit of rage. Lowkey W is embarrassing me in front of the whole family. My two children are in tears, terrified of my rage, while I pace the room, shaking with fear. I can't take this anymore. Fire lightbringer immediately, or my children will go without dinner tomorrow.

[umbral badger]

so it's either or ? cuz even then i'd say we would sitll want to try for the trinket from chmieurus

or whatever the name is

[wind hatch]

depends on what you need

[umbral badger]

yea most guilds have a VERY long line in wait for the gaze and warriors are in the bottom of the % gained from it "at least so far"

[magic canopy]

lmaoooooo

[umbral badger]

so i don't see my self getting that trinket anytime soon

[magic canopy]

bro i keep forgetting to tune in man my focus is all over the place

[candid pecan]

2 item per week from dungeons or 1 item per week from raid

the best part? once you get the item you can't get it again, so eventually you will get what you want

[sacred zodiac]

cheater team won

nothing interesting

[umbral badger]

oh so it is EITHER you choose raid or you choose dungoens , sadge but at least chimaerus items are good overall

[warm fog]

But the dungeon item should be myth track if you do it on a +10 right

[candid pecan]

+10 yes

will do +14 just to be sure

[umbral badger]

yea like i'd prefer to do it on dungeons too but then again i am so not in mood to wait that long for my turn to get gaze

that being said, plum might be better for colossus ? i don't know i need arch or fishy to tell us that

[warm fog]

That’s kind of a crazy amount of myth track gear isn’t it?

[umbral badger]

maybe plum will be better in 12.0.5 for colossus and if that's the case then i don't want to waste shit on gaze

[nova marsh]

Depends

If you raid mythic yes absolutely

[warm fog]

Vault plus 2x items for tokens? 3 myth track items a week without setting foot in raid

[sacred zodiac]

chimaerus and first 2 are literally trivial to pug

[warm fog]

Easy to gear up Alts

[magic canopy]

its just 1 mythic raid roll vs 2 M+ rerolls a week

also getting gear at higher ilvls from raid

[sacred zodiac]

is it mythic track rerolls or is it also hc

in m+

[magic canopy]

myth 1/6

[sacred zodiac]

ok thats better but still kinda bad

[magic canopy]

from the appropriate level like a 12 or w/e

i beleive

[nova marsh]

I heard it was same as vault

[umbral badger]

and i assume you can only reroll for mythic item if you kill the boss in mythic right ? so i'd need a belo'ren mythic kill if i want mythic plum "if it happens to become better than gaze which is a long shot"

[magic canopy]

could be 10s idk

[warm fog]

If you have an item from a boss is it eliminated from the pool? Or do you only get to eliminate if it’s from the roll system?

[umbral badger]

but as an example at least , you reroll on a mythic boss kill

in raid ? to get mythic track ?

[candid pecan]

yesh you need to kill on mythic if you want myth track item

[umbral badger]

sadge

[warm fog]

Like if you have some of the items from M chimeraus are they still in the roll pool?

[umbral badger]

so no mythic plum possible if it became better for colossus

[hybrid needle]

No. Once u get it its removed. Same with m+ loot. Source: Somewhere in the wowhead explanations dont ask me where

[warm fog]

So theoretically if you have some of the bosses drops you could guarantee the last item

[umbral badger]

i think he is asking if you got that lot before this system came out

[hybrid needle]

Its just EXTRA loot. What the Boss drops and what u got equipped doesnt get removed, sorry

[warm fog]

But once you get an item from that boss via the roll, it’s out of the pool

[hybrid needle]

Yes

[nova marsh]

How much does m rift have?

Like 5 items?

[dire hinge]

man i need to read up on this, that's surprising. Blizzard loves duplicates

[nova marsh]

Yeah we got bad luck protection

[warm fog]

So having myth tier chest won’t eliminate the M tier chest token from Chimearus

[dire hinge]

"Items have a knockout list per difficulty meaning you can't get the same item twice"

[nova marsh]

M+ is the only kinda bad part

[warm fog]

That’s kind of ambiguous

Or no I see

[nova marsh]

Cuz dungeon loot pools are huge compared to most bosses

[dire hinge]

combined with

"[...] players may choose to spend their Nebulous Voidcores to receive a random item appropriate for their Loot Specialization from that activity. After receiving an item in this way, it is removed from that loot pool until all eligible items have been obtained on a per-difficulty basis."

[hybrid needle]

Thats why u only need 1 for dungeon loot and 2 for raid loot

[warm fog]

So M dreamrift has 2 trinkets, a plate item and chest token

[umbral badger]

damn imagine if we can get mytch track from systems that would never reward myth track other wise, sadge i'd like to experiment iwth that 2 min ttrinket that gives shit lods of attribute and fear us on myth t racak

[uneven minnow]

it just means you can't get bent over and get the same helmet twice right

[spice minnow]

loot role as prot, removes the bad trinket

[nova marsh]

But ig i should just go kill M vore

[warm fog]

Big brain

[uneven minnow]

what's the way to sim best crafted piece?

[warm fog]

That’s not bad

[nova marsh]

Add it to top gear

[warm fog]

1/3 for gaze

[uneven minnow]

they're all going to be arcanowave right

[dire hinge]

the only remaining ambiguity is the phrase After receiving an item in this way. I can't tell if i natty get a trinket if the reroll will give me a second one potentially

[spice minnow]

ive been actively avoiding tier chest for this reason

[warm fog]

I guarantee the week that I roll the gaze I’ll get it jn the vault

[spice minnow]

so 2/3 chance for a big upgrade

[hybrid needle]

U get free, guaranteed gear, even if its a bit random.
Imagine rolling 30g like in mop.
This is a great system imo

[dire hinge]

Myth Weapon > Hunt Weapon > Arcanoweave non-weapons

[uneven minnow]

ye

[nova marsh]

Worse then dinars

But still good

[warm fog]

Depends

[nova marsh]

I mean its very trade off

[warm fog]

Super nice for casual players

[nova marsh]

On one hand you just get more gear flat out from this compared to dinars

[hybrid needle]

Diners is 1 item every 3 weeks.
This is 2 items every week.
Dinars are worse imo

[candid pecan]

super nice for fotm rerollers who want to push m+ , 3 myth pieces per week, now that the new score achievements will be out in 12.0.5

[nova marsh]

On the other hand its not as targeted and binary as dinars

[warm fog]

Yeah I was about to say that

[uneven minnow]

this looks right for my next craft yeah? since my current cloak is crit/haste i get the least out of crafting a new crit haste one for that slot

[nova marsh]

I believe belt is wrong craft

If ur spending sparks

[uneven minnow]

belt isn't a craft

[hybrid needle]

Thats not a craft tho

[uneven minnow]

I'm just putting in the ilvl it will be next week when I have more crests

[nova marsh]

Oh sorry

I got confused

[uneven minnow]

rn it's a downgrade cuz my current one has a socket

6/6 champ with socket vs 3/6 hero without one

[dire hinge]

at the top of Top Gear you can add items now. Once it's there, modify the item using the + button to add an embelishment

ah nvm you got it already

[hybrid needle]

For some reason when i see your pfp from afar i see sephiroth and Aerith and it makes no sense

[nova marsh]

...

Thats absoutlely fucking hilarious

[mellow seal]

do i cleave over slam st with multi target slayer

[nova marsh]

Its not that

[dire hinge]

only while Ravager is active, or if you have 3x stacks of Collateral Damage

tbh i just do it when ravager is active, easier on the brain

[hybrid needle]

If you can hold rav for 35% bosshp hold it, even more dmg

[mellow seal]

perfect thanks i added collat to the tracker anyways

[forest dove]

Pumping in every key I get in, yet I still get invited to groups and then immediately dropped because I’m not fury

Constantly like, you’re a month behind baby girl, read the news

[hybrid needle]

Thats wild. That happens to me when i wanna play a key as fury

[umbral badger]

is fury even more popular than arms in keys ? i did not have that experience.

[forest dove]

So silly…

Dude, I don’t even think it is

[umbral badger]

i think most of hte times i get dropped it's just cuz they need bloodlust

[forest dove]

I think some people just got caught into the community outcry before season 1 of “arms shit, the shittiest of shit”

That’s my only plausible explanation

Playing other toons, I don’t think I’ve even come across a fury warrior

[stone beacon]

LFG seems to think arms is bad yet in logs it does 40k more dps than unh dk in some keys lmao

[hybrid needle]

They look up Max's tier list from raid start, see arms im default-ui tier and hate em

[forest dove]

Yeah I think that’s literally it

[umbral badger]

i mean yea that's what i call reputation damage and it is the biggest problem i have with blizzard balance philosophy, in fact it is probably the biggest reason of why arms popularity is in the lowest "and was by far the lowest" on release

[forest dove]

100%

[umbral badger]

people are not gonna spec swap mid season cuz the class became from the weakest to "average"

[stone beacon]

i ended up adding 150 people to my ignore list due to how many times ive gotten declined this expansion

[umbral badger]

so in some ways, yes it is a dumb thing to even think of releasing classes 50% and sometimes 100% weaker than each other

[uneven minnow]

I think the perception of the spec being bad is worse than it being average

[forest dove]

Yeah, and are we still in line to get nerfed in 12.0.5? I haven’t kept up with it

[uneven minnow]

just give arms lust

[hybrid needle]

Thats wild

[forest dove]

This, 100%… having an ability literally called battle shout and not having a shout that is lust is ludicrous

[uneven minnow]

lowest ilvl player in my m+ key (the healer) ruins the key by refusing to participate after wipe on 1st pull of academy

🙂

[red relic]

gotta love it

[hybrid needle]

I swear, academy is like brewery first pull. 90% of keys deplete before they start

[uneven minnow]

I wish they would add resil 10s

I dont wanna do hard keys

[red relic]

had a tank and healer afk after a wipe and refused to abandon to keep every1 hostage

[uneven minnow]

I just want to run my own and get my vault done

[vapid spire]

Key depleting is stupid overall

[umbral badger]

to me it's not even that, just the fact that popularity of a spec will affect how fast that spec is fixed or balanced imo and when the spec is doing half the dmg of a lock or dk on release, that spec will not be played and it will be nuked in populariy, meaning, the reason the spec is unpopular and recieves less love in process is basically blizzard releasing it in a bad state. so basically blizzard creates the problem of bad popularity for the spec and then they don't fix the spec as a priority cuz it is going through the problem they caused

[warm fog]

This is wild, AA first pull feels way more straightforward

[umbral badger]

it is a weird dynamic i might be wrong in my perception of it

but it is a weird dynamic that i hate.

[uneven minnow]

Academy pull is super easy, you just can't have people fuck up the start of the pull and rip aggro

[dire hinge]

it's just a general DPS problem as well. There's a huge amount of DPS players and not many tank/healers by a tremendous factor. The moment another dps applies with more io, gear, or a utility that you don't* bring then you're getting deprioritized for an invite. This same moaning can be found in literally every class discord's dps specs channels.

[uneven minnow]

found in every game with any sort of competitive/balance nature

[umbral badger]

yes but fundementally if someone "wanted to try warrior" and then warriors are doing half the dps of a DK, that someone will not even touch the warriors anymore.

[hybrid needle]

Thing with Popularity is... udk was the most popular specc for m+ ever since m+ exists cause it was so fkin broken.

Players complained about melee speccs having hard times in m+

Now udk is range

[uneven minnow]

just delete udk

[umbral badger]

so it's like the same issue you are talking about multiplies when the specs are released extra miserable

[stone beacon]

and then i go to my unh dk that has lower ilvl and git invited within 5 mins

[uneven minnow]

stupidest version of dk is udk

[forest dove]

Very true. Had a past guildy complaining “no one will invite me because they hate havoc dh” and I was like “have you ever listed a key before in your life??? Do you see the 60 dps toons that queue ?”

[hybrid needle]

Play tank. Less than 30s

[dire hinge]

lmao right? go tank and list a key and you're now the person declining 500 applicants 😂

[uneven minnow]

I'm honestly thinking I should just craft a hero track shield

[dire hinge]

does that make you a bad person or hate the spec? No lmao, just wasn't the top applicant

[uneven minnow]

slap that bad boy on and start tanking

[stone beacon]

ignore pain gives me pain irl every time i have to press it every milisecond because it instantly goes away the second i press it

[dire hinge]

tanking is so easy this season for prot, i'd check it out!

[forest dove]

I’m crafting a shield this week for that exact reason

[dire hinge]

its very cozy

[uneven minnow]

I just want to be able to get my deplets back up to 10 so i can play arms and go unga bunga on cleave with 5 mobs

[hybrid needle]

Dont press it. Theres a healer. U need to beat the fury in dmg

[dire hinge]

yeah you spam IP a lot as prot, but it counts towards anger management so it's not a loss

[stone beacon]

me on prot pal with shield of righteous bound to scroll wheel

[dire hinge]

also mitigated huge damage in the half second it was up 😂

[stone beacon]

blizzard: if the tank is immortal the healer is bored

worst tanking expansion since shadowlands season 1 kite meta becuse tanks just died

[umbral badger]

the healer: if the tank is not immortal, i am suicidal.

which is the expereince of every healer who healed a paladin early this expansion

[hybrid needle]

If the tank is immortal the dps will still stand in random shit cause "i need to finish casting"

[dire hinge]

frankly that's a skill issue, as they say

[umbral badger]

every time a paladin got one shot my healer instant left party

in early expansion

[uneven minnow]

whats reasonable to pay for a 285 craft?

[hybrid needle]

1000g take it or leave it

[stone beacon]

the dev dh that has to finish its cast because if they dont they might as well have died because they lose meta

[hybrid needle]

With all them bots around you get 20 messages within 5 secs anyways. Why pay more

[stone beacon]

i spent 20k on mats for a craft and the warlock told me "nvm 500g tip not worth it" and declined me

[uneven minnow]

xd

[stone beacon]

i bet that lock asked for 5k tips for summon in raid

and 10k for cookies

[uneven minnow]

i still have some of my giga gold stash from before wow token for wrath so i dont mind tipping a bit over

[strange comet]

Trying out Col. Arms and have a question on the multitarget rotato. Are heroic strike procs really not used at all even over Overpower in the rotation? I only see Heroic strikes mentioned in single target

[dire hinge]

Sure is a high density of negative speculation in the chat today 😂

[uneven minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/minion-banana-gif-minion-minions-gif-81650879192259967

[fast warren]

cleave procs heroic strike (slam) on 3 or more targets

[stone beacon]

lfg as arms makes me crash out

[hybrid needle]

I usually do 500-1000 for those bot messages while ignoring those who link a different character.

5000g if its a human Interaction
10000g if he is funny

Up to you, really

[strange comet]

Ah i see. Havent touched arms in a looong time. Helps to read the tooltip i guess

[fast warren]

there are a lot of talents that synergize and proc off eachother gl

[dire hinge]

Jame gave you the correct answer already, but check your talent called Fervor of Battle You should never press Slam (ie: heroic strike) manually in AoE. Your Sweeping Strikes also makes you send out two of them!

[fast warren]

it only slams ur prio target but yeah cleave replaces having to press heroic strike on aoe

[dire hinge]

So you can either:

• Press Heroic Strike and do low damage to a single target, or
• Press Cleave and do damage to all targets in front of you, and cast up to two Heroic Slams both doing 50% more damage

[hybrid needle]

And sometimes u still end up Pressing slam cause literally EVERYTHING is on CD

[uneven minnow]

the hell does this

[dire hinge]

Fervor of Battle + Sweeping Strikes 📈

[uneven minnow]

o

didnt know that

i just hit the buttons

[dire hinge]

it's a very neat interaction

but it only works on 3+ targets

[uneven minnow]

perlerdins

[hybrid needle]

Just wait until you hear about ravager + mass Execution combo

[dire hinge]

this is also why pulling trash onto a boss makes you do more single target damage (this is what we mean by a "funnel" spec)

by having more targets, your Cleave becomes a huge single target nuke indirectly

[uneven minnow]

the only funnel spec i respect is

(I don't respect any funnel spec)

[dire hinge]

hahah valid

[hybrid needle]

I was ready to report you if you mentioned any mage specc

[dire hinge]

i remember our outlaw being pissed in SL dungeons when we'd cleave their adds down as they were trying to use them to funnel

it's certainly a very strange design choice. It works great in AoE with a large health mob in the middle, but becomes a bit unintuitive on boss fights

[umbral badger]

yesterday my tank literally was raging on my behalf when ppl killed the funnel monsters he brought in for me xd

[uneven minnow]

real damage or we ain't progging

[umbral badger]

he was like 'MAGE WHY ARE YOU PRIMARY FOCUSED ON THE ADD"

[dire hinge]

honeslty it still helps the timer overall so it's fine

[stone beacon]

ban dps who pad the arms warriors funnel

[hybrid needle]

I hope you added that dude. Guy is golden goat

[dire hinge]

[pine wren]

That Fervor interaction is really cool, I was literally just coming here to ask if I should Heroic Strike in AoE with sweeping

[dire hinge]

yeah yeah! Just Cleave!

it's easier on the brain AND does more damage

the best of both worlds

[fast warren]

cant decide if im going to switch to arms or not, looks fun / strong ....

[stone beacon]

if you pug it wont be worth it

[hybrid needle]

Just do it

[pine wren]

What trinkets y'all running? I don't have heart, but I have Puzzlebox/Gaze. I cannot stand puzzlebox on a melee character and I'm wondering if there's a sleeper alternative

[fast warren]

i do pug i dont know anyone.

[stone beacon]

good luck on getting invited and good luck finding a tank that will pull adds onto boss for you

[hybrid needle]

Puggers will look at meta classes or murlok.io and pick whatever is highest there. So by switching to arms youll have a benefit actually

[stone beacon]

they dont even do that they look at youtube tier lists that are only ever preseason content

[fast warren]

is not getting adds for funnel the main reason its better in a group? are most people prefering fury for pugs

[stone beacon]

you dont need boss funnel to top dps in pugs but its nice

[hybrid needle]

TLDR even without funnel dmg your overall on coll will be more than with thane. Speaking of a dude that plays coll for 2 days.

Your ST is horid tho

[umbral badger]

no, but i would say that if the class is top of A tier without funnel, it would be S tier with funnel

in fact it's s+ tier with funnel

at least during the funnel period

but overall maybe just S tier for dungeons where funnel is possible nad strong

[fast warren]

i see. i ran a couple lower keys 9-10 with col yday to try it out. granted it was my first couple runs but I wasnt doing massively more damage than fury thane

also might be because the tanks arent doing giga pulls

[hybrid needle]

Prolly a stat issue. Do you have 30%+ crit gear ?

[fast warren]

no its like 21%, it was largely fury gear

does the crit make a massive difference

[stone beacon]

if you are playing slayer you wont do more damage than fury in pugs

[hybrid needle]

Yes. Very much so

[fast warren]

i could recraft wep + bracers but then im full committed

[stone beacon]

catalyst also has alot of crit haste gear btw

[umbral badger]

that's not the issue he ran into at a 10 it is the fact that fury thane and colossus arms both have giga great opener burst in AoE, but colossus arms is strongeri f they get another CS rotation below 35% @fast warren

[stone beacon]

so if you have 4p just cat your gear to crit haste

[pine wren]

I was in the exact same boat as you last night and fully committed with recrafts. Went from 21% crit to around 30 and Arms feels so much nicer than my previous attempts

[fast warren]

yeah I got a mythic belt in vault and catalyzed it, nice crit right there

[umbral badger]

this is because under 35% if you get another CS you get a bunch of cleaves with 20% more dmg

so when you get 2 CS rotations "basically what happens in keys with bizentein and critcakes" you do actually get much higher dps than a fury would

[hybrid needle]

Even without the second burst, coll does higher Sustained aoe while thane falls off after Avatar
Thats from my own perspective

[fast warren]

does the second CS always come with no avatar/ ravager? Rav + Avatar on CD, and then CS + Demo at the end of the pack with no CDs?

[umbral badger]

it's avatar + CS then cs then avatar + CS and so on. that being said the second CS will be with 20% cleave dmg which is same as avatar for cleave at least

ofc there are other factors but i am just saying arms scale really well with monsters health

probably more so than thane

[quiet quest]

Arms lover since launch but first night raiding arms in Midnight. Slayer MT build for all but Vanguard, or do we ever run Slayer ST buiild?

[fast warren]

Ravager with Avatar? or Im holding ravasger for the second CS

[umbral badger]

if you look at most cleave bosses, slayer is not run in cleave built "might only add a sweeping strike point or 2 at the cost of bleed dmg"

[quiet quest]

You are the best!

[umbral badger]

but if you look slayer warriors logs on fights with cleave like fallen king- they do a lot of reap the storm dmg anyway to adds.

this means slayer arms get inheret cleave dmg that is more "practical" than colossus now "maybe not anymore after 12.0.5"

so for example if the orbs in fallen king spawn and you have 2 sudden death procs, that's a decent chunk of aoe dmg

[quiet quest]

Understood. Appreciate ya

[umbral badger]

ofc i think colossus might nad probably will have that sort of dynamic in 12.0.5 with more demo procs

[umbral badger]

ravager always lines up with a CS considering CS is 30 sec cd techincally

so you have no reason to delay both CS and ravager for avatar

[fast warren]

yeah that makes sense. I should send both Ravager AND Avatar though on the opener right?

[umbral badger]

i mean cds ar always better when lined up for sure

[sharp crystal]

is there any way in the cdm to set an alert for heroic strike proc?

[umbral badger]

so the way it works is avatar + ravager + CS, then CS, then CS + avatar, then CS + ravager, then CS + avatar, then CS, then CS + avatar + ragaer again

might hae messed the order a bit but you get it

[fast warren]

awesome ok ty

does demolish need a CS?

[umbral badger]

cuz ravager will be ready again after 1.5 min and 3 mins, and 3 mins mark is when you have an avatar

[umbral badger]

right now yes, might be different in AoE situation in 12.0.5

some of the things you guys are trying to learn and ask about will change in 1 week

[fast warren]

gotcha okay. yeah i hear itll be lower CD so maybe we just use it off cd

[umbral badger]

so you might as well wanna be aware of that

[pine wren]

What interaction in Arms makes crit so important? Is it just the talents that scale crit damage or am I missing something

[umbral badger]

MANY just search for crit in your tree and you'd see all

haste is also, for the most part interracts with everything with the addition of interracting with 4 set which crit does not do

i mean can say crit for colossus has a subtle interraction with 4 set cuz demo gives you haste i guess

[rocky plume]

should i use ravanger or bladestorm

[hybrid needle]

Slayer bladestorm col ravager

[rain fiber]

During Vaelgor & Ezzorak, should I swap to orbs for my demolish or does the damage "spread" from where I'm standing?

[thin grotto]

Guys is it normal that im Rage starved a Lot, esp. on singletarget? I dont have much crit, its fury gear statweights

[river ridge]

Pretty normal if you lack crit + shaman buff as colossus

[strange comet]

https://tenor.com/view/dalek-explain-doctor-who-gif-5490200

[hot hollow]

Yo I have a question? Maybe someone can help me with what I’m doing wrong . My ilvl is only around 260 and I’ve tried playing both arms and fury in m+. For whatever reason I cannot seem to pull numbers while playing Arms in both slayer or col. any advice would be appreciated. I
Haven’t really pushed any keys yet only 7s and 8s.

[hybrid needle]

Hard to say anything without seeing your stats and damage Breakdown

[mortal crag]

the rogue is pug

we bricked mt19 btw

i was 230k overall by last boss

🙂

heal forgot to click the ability that heals the tank before a tank buster

🙂

[latent moss]

arms peak

spec

[mortal crag]

🙂

legit

arms actually so goated compared to last seasons

holy peak

@thick kelp rate the quicksim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7mPAFeAd5mKNfUvdWZAHuz

noooo

someone just bought myth boots for 800k on auction house

crit haste

eta gg

[reef glade]

they just get cata'd into crit haste anyway

[mortal crag]

they were crit haste anyways

lul

[wind hatch]

true

besides the occasional rage issue and sd rng

its peak

[calm hollow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a5UUHZxjaqH6xufGiMU7RP passed 90k

still champ hands

[reef glade]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vUL1XHAQ7vDih7fzJX4iMc game

[mortal crag]

swordish making me buy boots

to keep up

does ring set sim higher for u sword?

sims lower for me

or at least used to, hvent checked again in a bit

[languid torrent]

on like a bad pull of mine

i hate this game sometimes

[mortal crag]

im there tmrw

is it hard

[languid torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/sheldon-sheldon-cooper-jim-parsons-big-bang-theory-the-big-bang-theory-gif-5618307

[languid torrent]

not really, pretty straight forward

im just bad

[timid mountain]

what is the reasoning behind not taking thunderclap in arms?

i see a lot of the top io people are not grabbin it and im sure theres a reason im just a big ol noob and dont get it

[minor gust]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gTyQXHsNKqG9CPt5QziCsj Yo wtf why my sim so bad its only 2 ilvl

[mortal crag]

not worth it

[jade ember]

Seat glove diff is a non-zero part of it ig

[mortal crag]

u have bigger buttons to press

[mellow seal]

does fearless work on mythic cosmic intermission?

[mortal crag]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dLUq6uMmXY2p74f9aRkU8E @minor gust shoudl i gap u too

[timid mountain]

is rend for bosses only?

[minor gust]

[mortal crag]

wym

u dont tclap

on anything

[languid torrent]

re-read rend

[elder zealot]

In the past, you needed Thunder Clap to apply Rend in AoE. In Midnight, Rend is now an AoE ability by baseline

[safe frigate]

hi guys, how do u opening as colossus single target, just hold demolish till 10 stack colossal might or send 1 instantly after CS

[timid mountain]

@mortal crag@languid torrent@elder zealot appreciate the info, did not see rend was an aoe ability that answers it!

[hot hollow]

@hybrid needle like 21crit, 17, haste, 31mastery. Ilvl 258. I’ll end a run at like 40-50k overall dps. I can burst high sometimes but not consistently. Maybe the pulls in pugs are just weird idk, I can pop off to like 140-150 if all is perfect but most of the time on aoe I’ll pull 70-90k. Then single target I’m lucky to break 30-35k

[mellow seal]

fearless talent works for mythic cosmos intermission

kinda nice

[mortal crag]

correcto!

acquired boots

WAIT WTF

sim tells me crit strike effectiveness is bis?

for ring enchant?

[nova marsh]

Yeah

Eyes is really cracked for crit specs

[blazing narwhal]

you only cleave at 3+

right?

[rose ibex]

how many sparks should we have including the world tour spark?

[mortal crag]

u cleave at 2 as well with some modifiers

[nova marsh]

8 I believe

[jade ember]

Yeah your character sheet should say 7 and then the +1 from the first week quest

[rose ibex]

hmmm

[dire hinge]

yeah 8

[jade ember]

If you made a weapon you can send your third craft this week

[mortal crag]

12 hours ago

current

[zealous sphinx]

Soooo they are butchering Colossus next patch?

[wind hatch]

no

they're buffing it

[zealous sphinx]

How

[wind hatch]

cdr on colossal might is being increased to 5 seconds

you get demolish much faster

[minor gust]

by increasing the cdr of demolish by over 100%

[barren agate]

Give it to me straight is arms still a meme spec in the next patch?

[wind hatch]

arms is not a meme spec right now

and it's even better next patch

[barren agate]

Thats good then. I'll give it a try again

[zealous sphinx]

Am i stupid why cant i see it

[minor gust]

read more than just the intial notes

there is no offcial consolidated patch notes for 12.05 rn

just the timeline of ptr changes

[zealous sphinx]

Ay

my man

Sounds clunky tho

[rocky plume]

I wanna mess with a arms spec and make that charge up bonk just hit like a truck thats my dream

[obtuse lynx]

Any tips for single target rotation with wowhead M+ build? I'm following the priority but doing very little damage. Maybe 50k average. Is there something obvious missing from the guide?

[uneven minnow]

If my guild is just starting mythic prog (1/9)

whats the strat for gearing

[minor gust]

Holy Inky black potion goes hard on paladins

[uneven minnow]

vault -> pick my item -> craft a 285 item each week?

[dire hinge]

Arms single target is not very good, but our AoE greatly makes up for it. It's our job to get the dungeon party to the next boss faster.
Otherwise no, just follow the execute priority for Colossus

[dire hinge]

crafting happens every-other week (you get 1 spark per week, and it takes at least 2 to craft anything, or 4 for a 2-hander)

[uneven minnow]

so I'd craft an item every 2 weeks

assuming I don't have something worth more to spend crests on

[dire hinge]

basically yeah

[uneven minnow]

k

I think I craft a cloak this week in addition to my bracers

[dire hinge]

it's good to have 2x Emebelishments at all times, but you can sim for non-embelished items to see if it's worth spending crests on a craft or upgrading an existing item

[uneven minnow]

I have to go unembellished on the cloak since weapon has the thingy along with bracers rn

can always recraft em later no?

and that doesnt cost more crests, just gold?

[dire hinge]

yup yup!

[uneven minnow]

I think our ideal is bracers cloak anyways so good

[dire hinge]

basically an equal tie between bracer/cloak/belt (in that order). You want craft into the slots that have the lowest amount of strength gains where you can

[uneven minnow]

I shall catch up to all the nerds that played weeks 1-3

[jade ember]

One day Blizz just gonna make embellished gear full ilvl

[uneven minnow]

ye I get that part, but belt has a good catalyst version on myth track while bracers/cloak dont right?

[jade ember]

And by that I mean

they prolly wont

[uneven minnow]

or not as good ig

cloak is vers over haste (yuck), catalyzed bracers is haste over crit

[dire hinge]

for sure, luckily Arms like all stats in various amounts

[uneven minnow]

ye

rn my vers is at 53 and i want it to stay there or go lower

[dire hinge]

dont worry about napkin-mathing the secondary stats, just listen to raidbots 👍

[uneven minnow]

raidbots will be bent to my will (200 add cleave)

[rocky plume]

So full crit build?

[stable fiber]

ITS TIME

L'URA ARMS

[minor gust]

[dire hinge]

you'll naturally gravitate towards crit as you gear

[uneven minnow]

don't you mean haste

[rocky plume]

Perfecttt

[stable fiber]

turning stream on

[uneven minnow]

our bis weapon and ring is pure haste

(we are all clearing mythic l'ura)

(and winning our bonus rolls)

[dire hinge]

bis is sort of a soft myth we tell people to get us to stop bugging us on what to pick (outside of say, trinkets)

fwiw

[uneven minnow]

I mean if we were all chasing bis we'd all be playing mecha-gnome

[dire hinge]

just sim as you go based on the upgrades that drop

[rocky plume]

If i can make a big bonk demolish im happy

[dire hinge]

you're gonna love the new patch dropping in a few weeks then

[hybrid needle]

You mean panda right

[rocky plume]

:O

[languid torrent]

next week?

[uneven minnow]

thought mechagnome was higher rn

[stable fiber]

baited

LMAO

bro this guy

[dire hinge]

time is a flat circle

[minor gust]

[uneven minnow]

i guess as you gear more and fights get shorter mechagnomer gets worse

panda's shouldn't be able to be warriors though

goes against their lore

[minor gust]

back too paladins prog I go

[dire hinge]

TLDR: the 0.5 patch dropping in a few days makes your Demolish cooldown extremely fast, so you'll be casting it rapidly

[hybrid needle]

Mechagnomes have lore ?!?

[dire hinge]

Big Bonk, Frequently

[uneven minnow]

is it looking like it overtakes slayer?

[minor gust]

TWW s3 was big bonk this is avg bonk

[uneven minnow]

(obviously this is pure speculation since we don't have a real patch notes yet)

[rocky plume]

This about to be me

[uneven minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-vào-mặt-cái-cám-bonk-anime-bonk-meme-bonk-dog-gif-26069974

think you mean more like this

[dire hinge]

i know some of the nerds are running numbers, but im admittedly a bit out of the loop on the current state of which is better. Both will likely continue to be perfectly fine in M+ since neither is getting nerfed (meaningfully)

[latent moss]

what content

in m+ its already better in high keys where the tank pulls around you

slayer is really really good too tho

[stable fiber]

i got baited so hard

...

tomorrow

[latent moss]

and will continue to be very good

[uneven minnow]

single target boss killing for the most part is what I care about

I'm not into huge M+'ing

[latent moss]

play slayer

[minor gust]

depending how the ST plays out and 2T colo likely beats out slayer a bit more convincingly for keys. Slayer wont be bad but colo might become more clearly better

[uneven minnow]

I'll do my keys to catch up each with along with mythic bosses as we prog/kill them but I ain't doing no +18's or such right now

[hybrid needle]

Meanwhile raids are more m+ now than raids too

[uneven minnow]

wdym

[latent moss]

ye but compared to other specs slayer will continue to be very good

[minor gust]

[latent moss]

colo is just a menace

[hybrid needle]

Good ole raiding was singletsrget bosses with mechanics and maybe an add here and there

Todays raiding is adds with one add having more hp

[minor gust]

20% demolish buff with 12.05 and watch that spec explode

[uneven minnow]

feel like that's pretty outdated

[dire hinge]

we dont really have a single-target boss right now, so every raid has a bit of AoE

[uneven minnow]

like legion and before

[latent moss]

20% ms buff

and u prio ms over cleave in aoe xdd

[uneven minnow]

hell even most legion bosses were double target dipping for me as spriest

[dire hinge]

i mean most raid tiers have a single target boss, but not this one

[nova marsh]

LMAO

[latent moss]

ig if demo got buffed it would be ms>cleave

[uneven minnow]

bosses are still 'single target' in my mind though

[latent moss]

idk

[uneven minnow]

even if im just cleaving

[dire hinge]

closest thing we have is Vorasius and even he has an AoE phase that you gigga pad on

[nova marsh]

I love healers

[minor gust]

Need S3 TWW demo numbers again man

[nova marsh]

who can't stack

[minor gust]

that button was a nuke

[latent moss]

ye

truly demolished

[minor gust]

hitting things with a foam hammer in mid

[stable fiber]

i had my cortisol spiked

[latent moss]

tbh tho i dont mind this iteration either

cleave being a nuke perma is fun too

like every cleave press

ur dps spikes on details

i fw that too

esp collat in ravager

[nova marsh]

Toxic af

[wind hatch]

holy fuck

aura

[dire hinge]

hey at least they responded with clear intention, that's better than most pugs

[hybrid needle]

Maybe he is just shy

[minor gust]

Man I love wiping on paladins right at the part where I pop 2nd pot and all cds while they are all below 35%

what a cock tease

[latent moss]

ragebait fight

[minor gust]

its going well right now both our mm hunters are asleep

[nova marsh]

This dungeon

WHY'

This crap is cursed

I stg

my aa groups suck

[tepid citrus]

If your melee in a pug raid the 3rd boss in void is totally a single boss 😂😆

[lean geode]

I love dying to boss melee on paladins and then two healers immediately dying to a shield and taking our bres right after so I'm floor pov half the fight

[ebon tendon]

Something something dps typing in discord mid dungeon something something

[minor gust]

GG Shoulda pressed DBTS skill issue

[lean geode]

Real

[nova marsh]

okay ngl a little

I hate this place

So fucking annoying