arms

[umbral badger]

holyshit bro i legit feel sad that colossus is not even better than slayer in m+ anymore and yet it sucks for most raid

[smoky kayak]

logs don't track AA rage

[reef glade]

o yea arms has like 0 rage gen abilities huh

give that back to overpower

fury has like 10

[smoky kayak]

think the only other thing you'd have is just warming up, if we ever ran it

[reef prairie]

Colossus can be pretty great in keys idk

[toxic surge]

do you run Fearless because of the affix (cleans slows as of recent change?)

[umbral badger]

it is great but when it's not better than slayer in keys and it is much worse in raid

i just feel sadge

[reef prairie]

I mean arguably its better than slayer in keys

[smoky kayak]

affix + various slowing debuffs (NPX, Seat have big ones)
and PHowl nerf just kills it imo

[reef glade]

i mean feel like prolly is better in keys..

[umbral badger]

cuz i like colossus more

[reef glade]

just less st

[reef prairie]

Then llay colossus

Its great

You will do more overall

[umbral badger]

nah at this point most warriors are going for slayer more in keys cuz of the ST dps

[smoky kayak]

depends on the key imo

[reef prairie]

Thats true, yea

[umbral badger]

but yea depends on key

[smoky kayak]

and whether you want boss dam, add dam, or your tank is a baller who pulls trash into bosses

like Seat is 100% a Colossus key imo

[umbral badger]

but generally if you have an MM you like to go slayer cuz MM seems to suck on ST

[smoky kayak]

NPX I feel like Slayer is probably a lil better

[reef prairie]

I think it definitely depends on your comp too

[smoky kayak]

not like "absolutely" better, as in every top log is gonna be slayer

[umbral badger]

yea it's just feels sad for anyone who enjoys colossus more to not feel that much better at the content for colossus and much worse at most raid bosses

[reef prairie]

But I wouldn't say colossus is just worse

[smoky kayak]

just better suited for

[umbral badger]

i want to raid as colossus again 😮

rip

[reef prairie]

I mean this isnt for long, right?

[smoky kayak]

Lightblinded Vanguard comin at you

[reef prairie]

Isn't colossus going to be comparable in raid with 0.5

I could be so wrong

[umbral badger]

yup,only boss i am excited for xd

[smoky kayak]

depends if they don't tune Slayer

[umbral badger]

i don't know man blizzard seems to want colossus to be the cleave spec forever it seems like, no ?

but at least in TWW s3 colossus was able to do shit in raid

now it feels hopeless

unless it's lightforged

[minor gust]

Both specs are viable and good in M+ right now. Saying Colo is bad because more people are playing slayer is crazy

[smoky kayak]

While most people like the idea of complete parity, it's kind of impossible
and the game functions best where different things excel in different areas

• e.g. Slayer in raid, Colossus/Thane in keys, etc
  it's not perfect for everyone's ideal, but it ensures that everyone has somewhere they can shine

[toxic surge]

Colossus is just some weird design, it's okay for prot (a bit more engaging than thane) but arms... meh... just personal bias, mb maybe people like it

[steep escarp]

Adjust rage gen for both (colossus more though) then I’m happy

[umbral badger]

no one said that though, i said colossus is far behind in raid :p

[smoky kayak]

idk what you mean, Colossus works great for Arms

the only real misstep (trying to use Cleave / untalented Execute) is being corrected in 12.0.5

[minor gust]

You were just talking about keys before that unless I misread

[umbral badger]

i do agree, but i feel that what hte sims show for slayer vs colossus on ST is much more positive for colossus compared to what happened in actual fights

in actual raid fights colossus falls so far behind

[toxic surge]

Execute misalignment with main Arms tree is one of the weirdest things in Col

[umbral badger]

nah i was saying colossus is not overall better in keys and yet it is much worse in raid so it does not feel special atm

[toxic surge]

since it is was removed from the Demo stacks

[rough pewter]

I mean i like both slayer and colossus

It is kind of good to be arms player finally

Its been a while

[minor gust]

Just gotta play with people who pull trash onto bosses and Colo is overall better by a mile

[umbral badger]

tbf even fury slayer feels a bit beaten by thane on most content now ?

cuz i don't see fury on mythic raid logs

fury slayer

[hoary fossil]

was thinking of still running fury thane for averzian and dragons and rest arms but may just full send slayer arms on both

[toxic surge]

also, Demo shouldn't make you a sitting duck for 2 seconds - warrior is a dynamic class and that's one of the joys

[minor gust]

Jokes on you Colo on dragons does very well even more so when .5 drops

[rose ibex]

Sims shmims

[umbral badger]

yea at least colossus boss dmg on dragons is equal to slayer so that at least is nice, your guild can't force you to go slayer then xd

[pliant vessel]

arms warrior looking good?

[boreal bay]

I'm sorry guys if this is a stupid question but, what does the 12.0.5 changes mean for colo? I mean you are saying Colo is getting good changes but isn't that a nerf to practiced strikes? What am I missing

[umbral badger]

while i don't think they should nerf anything, it is about hwo we at least will not feel like demo needs 90 years to be used on ST

like if you play colossus on ST you probably hate how demo is always hard desynced from cs :p

feels bad

[smoky kayak]

Colossus has an abundance of AoE, -5% cleave damage doesn't really hurt their bottom line all that much (it goes from 25% of your damage to 23.75%), meanwhile

• Mortal Wounds change buffs up single target/priority damage, which Colossus is sorely lacking
• Dominance change means more frequent Demolish (which procs Deep Wounds) to compensate for both the Cleave and Mortal Wounds change

So while your MS/Cleave get a little weaker, you end up doing more damage with Deep Wounds and Demolish overall

plus you no longer have to juggle Ravager, Cleave, or untalented Execute against single target key bosses

[sharp dust]

I forgot about that sudden death change, RIP

[reef glade]

colossus also bangs on dragons

tho maybe slayer just as fine

[smoky kayak]

that change has since changed, see #updates-midnight message

[sharp dust]

🥳

[umbral badger]

yea, colossus does parse well on some bosses, but if it's boss dmg is too low your guild won't like it. so on dragons colossus is at least not shunned if you know what i mean

[smoky kayak]

I mean that's between you and your guild

My guild grips adds onto me so I can blow them up

[boreal bay]

gotcha gotcha, thanks for the deep dive. Now I see it

[umbral badger]

true but some bosses colossus does good parses but tank dps on bsos

[reef glade]

2target colossus boss dmg still p good on dragon

[warm fog]

Flip side is your other dps could go ST spec

[umbral badger]

:p

[umbral badger]

that and at least we get the haste buff more often and it always gonna line with CS i assume ?

[hard dragon]

Are these the changes that I keep hearing that will result in Colossus being the only viable DPS spec for warrior?

[umbral badger]

like 10% haste is still not bad

[reef glade]

my boss dmg from last week's kill where i was absolutely not geared for arms and also not trying to focus boss dmg almost at all

saving wb/demo's for every add set

played fury this week to try and get a nice allstar ranking but that was a mistake that shit is so ass to play

[smoky kayak]

you should really stop listening to random ass people saying random ass things

[reef glade]

got like a 58 lol

[smoky kayak]

just generally good life advice lol

[hard dragon]

Not really a random person I heard that from

[smoky kayak]

that might be even worse lol

[umbral badger]

yea i love dragons for colossus, probably will suck for the guild to grip adds onto me too xd

[reef glade]

yea my guild doin it with 2 bdks every week

[hard dragon]

Worse that it's someone who's really good at DPS warrior?

[reef glade]

so thats nice bonus

[pliant vessel]

arms > fury atm guys?

[smoky kayak]

if they're that uninformed and make bombastic doomer claims... yeah

[umbral badger]

just to confirm arch, with those changes demo will line up exactly with cs overall on ST right ?

[hard dragon]

I don't think Critcake is uninformed

[umbral badger]

like i want that 10% haste always with CS

[hard dragon]

I must be misshearing what he's saying

[smoky kayak]

I think that by the time we get to 12.0.5, Dragons could definitely become an Arms fight - just hard 2T and blow up adds during BS/Demo

[smoky kayak]

I would think probably

[dire hinge]

he himself used Slayer and Colossus to clear keys already so

[umbral badger]

although critcake famously hate colossus so he is more into slayer xd

[smoky kayak]

anyway, just wait for final patch notes

they'll be out in a week or so

[hard dragon]

Yeah, but something along the lines of slayer single target getting gutted from reap the storm no longer proc'ing

[dire hinge]

please delete us

[hard dragon]

Making it not worth playing Slayer

[smoky kayak]

Slayer's ST is made up for in BS buff & Mortal Wounds change

[umbral badger]

as i always say ot my guild mates for the last 5 months "the 50% more damage warrior buff is coming"

THE WINTER IS COMING

[smoky kayak]

Fury Slayer is the one that's getting kinda cucked

[umbral badger]

fury slayer already got cucked by how outperformed it is compared to thane, it is still gonna get more cucked ? lol

[smoky kayak]

Talking about single target

[umbral badger]

to be fiar this raid tier thane is doing good ST cuz of how littl they lose when they cleave os i guess we won't know until next raid tier

[smoky kayak]

Slayer is doing better ST, not the case post-patch though

again, however, I cannot stress enough that you should just wait for the final patch notes before making all of these determinations

[umbral badger]

yea, teh 50% buff is coming in the final patch

[hard dragon]

I am waiting, not making gear choices on what ifs rn

[umbral badger]

my prediction, DKS s tier again

[hard dragon]

I'm just wondering if said changes do go through if I'm going to have to go back to being a Tank or not

[umbral badger]

don't think it's a "have to" situation

worst case scenario all warrior will suck and they will buff slayer arms again :p

the usual cycle

[candid pecan]

hell yeah

[eternal crest]

hm cant figure out how to make colo not feel bad

[tawdry bear]

How much of a dps change is 12.5? Like %wise.

For slayer.

[rose ibex]

Feels like its been a bit of a blur. Hard to keep track of what's even being implemented at this point

[umbral badger]

on ST it won't stop feeling bad

rage starvation and desyncing

[dire hinge]

yeah it's seemingly a new change every week. Better late than never 🎉

[eternal crest]

st felt fine just cant get feel for paladins

[dire hinge]

definitely makes it hard to write guides, because the goalposts keep moving 😂

[reef glade]

crit on every piece of gear

[hard dragon]

Rage Starv is the main reason I'm staying away from that spec atm

[near ice]

why cant they just bake this talent into mortal wounds and call it a day

[tawdry bear]

For me it is just this change has been announced for a while. But nothing has been said about changes. So people fear there wont be a change.

[umbral badger]

cuz they want us to have 2321312323123 talents for cleave and same logic for everything

[rose ibex]

Its just as much confusing about what is no longer being implemented as well as what is being implemented

[umbral badger]

so weird

[smoky kayak]

I recommend using #updates-midnight!
but yeah, that's just how PTR cycles go, and the fact that they're doing live tuning at the same time muddles things a bit

[umbral badger]

it's like "hey, my bleed has 34324 talents, and so dos my cleav, and my overpower"

i hate it

[dire hinge]

Ms is 8 buffs in a trechcoat

[hard dragon]

I think they should revert the mortal wounds application change

[umbral badger]

nah mortla wound change is fine imo

[rose ibex]

I just wish PTR notes just kept everything that is being change as one big patch notes instead of giving us these bite sized notes of what is being added and stuff. Its all small beans tho

[umbral badger]

with the demo change it's fine

[smoky kayak]

it's a great change for Colossus
a little negative for Slayer AoE, though the Bladestorm buff makes up for it
The main place Slayer is losing out is Mortal Strike no longer triggering Reap

[rose ibex]

I try to just close my eyes and plug my ears when it comes to PTR. Whatever gets changed can be observed on patch day

[umbral badger]

like @smoky kayak might know better how much "bleed dps lost on AoE" from it but i would assume it's not much with how many demos we get , did you calculate that ?

[reef glade]

more demo good

bleeds are chillin

[latent moss]

aoe is the same

[umbral badger]

like i am assuming we can open with demo and get it back soon after bleed is gone anyway

[latent moss]

st is better

[rose ibex]

It'll be interesting to see how things end up in terms of how it plays. We can all freak out over notes but seeing how things play out in practice is always gonna be king

Im gonna hit things with my big totem in any case

[smoky kayak]

more a @fresh spire question, but on the whole, Deep Wounds loses like 1% damage and Demolish gains ~50% damage

[latent moss]

they need to give us this tierset

[smoky kayak]

live

ptr

[latent moss]

as a talent

[stark pawn]

Is slayer pulling ahead of colo in aoe or not unless them patch notes make in thru

[umbral badger]

yea ty i assumed something along that for deepwounds

i think ONLY on first pull deep wounds will have a downtime

[smoky kayak]

but you're also gaining like 5-6% increased single target (or 2 target w/ sweep) damage from Slam-Deep Wounds
that also applies when casting Cleave because of FoB

[latent moss]

our prio gonna be even better no

[umbral badger]

OH wait

[olive nest]

Can you guys tell if they nerfed cleave?

[smoky kayak]

yep, and gaining 5% extra single target damage matters a lot more to Colossus than losing 1% AoE

[umbral badger]

don't forget that increased AoE for demo is more dps that you can't easily calculate

i forgot that

[smoky kayak]

it's in the image above

[umbral badger]

oh nice

[olive nest]

Vanguard stonks rising

[latent moss]

i wonder how will jt play once we lose tierset

[umbral badger]

like bro i swear in m+ depends on the tank you get, i feel sometimes i need just 10% more aoe for my rend and demo

[latent moss]

m+ will always depend on ur tank

[umbral badger]

and sometimes i just straight up get thunderclap + crackling thunder to reach with rend

so at least they addressing the "annoying things' in the spec

[rose ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/theyre-the-same-picture-the-office-pam-the-office-us-gif-20757621

(I know its not really haha )

[reef glade]

lmao

[smoky kayak]

I think it's one of those "if you can't tell the difference, then the difference doesn't matter to you" situations lol

[rose ibex]

Playing colossus in single target could be fun

[umbral badger]

damn colossus on 2 and 3 targets will be so broken though

[smoky kayak]

which, to be fair... is probably true of a lot of players

[umbral badger]

i can't wait

[latent moss]

already is on 3t

[rose ibex]

If its about the same as slayer it'll be fun to use in raid

[latent moss]

perma 250k on 2nd boss seat

its insane

[smoky kayak]

It legitimately is a good set of changes for Arms, not just in terms of numbers, but gameplay as well

• I really think Slayer could use a small buff (mainly aimed at ST) to give it a stronger counterpoint to Colossus/Thane's greater multitarget though
• Ravager still needs to die, that would make Colossus gameplay practically perfect IMO

[rose ibex]

I like seeing big colossus crits

[latent moss]

ye replacing rav with more cs damage would own so hard

[olive nest]

I’d like to see slayer buffs for st raid

[rose ibex]

I do like slayer's zug zug gameplay of just swinging and spinning and hammering sd procs. Its fun

[smoky kayak]

if wishing made it so

[rose ibex]

Oh man I hate rav

[latent moss]

colo already plays very well on aoe imo

[smoky kayak]

practically everyone does lol, it's just extra

[dire hinge]

yeah, unironically it would be nice to see Ravager get removed somehow (talent pathing aside) and have its Cleave buff put into CS. Even if it's at 1/2 strength to accommodate for the cooldown offset.

[umbral badger]

at the very least, the changes to colossus means we can no longer complain we are doing tank dps on ST in m+ build and i am happy with that, if anything.

[rose ibex]

Its boring and feels very "unwarrior-y". Im not some weapon wizard. Im a big strong dumb dumb hit thing hard smash BIG SMASH

[smoky kayak]

I've been pushing the idea of replacing Ravager with a talent that reads Colossus Smash deals 300% increased damage since beta lol - it's actually very well balanced and quite thematic that Colossus would increase Colossus Smash too

[dire hinge]

real yeah

[rose ibex]

How thrown weapon spin? Seems like witchcraft to me. Why hit harder when weapon spin? Bad fantasy! Me no know how make smash better

[umbral badger]

i've been thinking they should have just baked it into avatar, ravager without unhinged is just a cd i hate now and i hate i have to use it

[dire hinge]

or that too yeah, make it an avatar buff, either one

[umbral badger]

bring me back my recklessness on avatar

i want that

[latent moss]

personally id like if colo had nothing to do with bleeds

[umbral badger]

xd

[rose ibex]

This is exactly what I want

[dire hinge]

and then three ghost swords appear and smash around me and... 👀

[latent moss]

wish they would replace bleeds with more ms damage or something

[rose ibex]

Or maybe we can charge up colossus smash to increase aoe size and damage with a channel

[latent moss]

like mortal combo

[rose ibex]

Id never stop playing colossus if that were the case

[latent moss]

or exhilarating blows

[smoky kayak]

I actually like the bleed aspect, but that's a much bigger series of changes

[umbral badger]

i honestly think they want bleed to be part of colossus so that they don't have to compensate that on more direct colossus dmg ? like without bleed you will need mortals to hit MUCH harder and they seem to hate when crits hit waay too high

[flat willow]

do not give more channels to arms warrior

[umbral badger]

that being said, i do liike the idea of hitting too hard it has a lingering 'bleed" effect'

so at least that

[rose ibex]

Sion is one of my favorite characters in league and it would be cool to have an ability like his Q

[flat willow]

the spec is actually pretty nice right now

[smoky kayak]

so interestingly, I had an idea for this

but it's gonna be a very controversial one

[dire hinge]

i love it already

[umbral badger]

i want demo to be more like slams in PoE

[rose ibex]

I like the idea of a timed channel that rewards precision, but only if its optional because a lot of people probably wont like it. I dont think it should be long duration like evoker empower attacks either

[umbral badger]

hit a slam so hard it shakes hte ground all around you rather than to one direction

[rose ibex]

Yeah!!!

BIG SMASH

[smoky kayak]

So... Arms' has had an identity problem for decades, aside from using a couple different spells, it really doesn't do anything that Fury doesn't, or have anything that makes it distinct

[umbral badger]

PoE literally is the game that made slams feel like SLAMS the most

[rose ibex]

Who needs range when you hit EVERYTHING!?

[rose ibex]

Preach man

[dire hinge]

hey now, we die more than any other spec

[rose ibex]

Ive been yapping about this for years

[latent moss]

skill issue

unhinged

slayer talent

[umbral badger]

i personally like arms as the "thinker" spec rather than the pure reflex personally :p although i think that identity keeps dying more nad more

[smoky kayak]

the devs have continually tried to differentiate it by making fury the "fast" spec and arms the "slow" spec, but that has a bunch of problems

• When everything operates off a common GCD, it's hard to slow things down without just artificially starving resources, and nobody enjoys sitting on their hands unable to push buttons when they could otherwise be pushing buttons
• gear inflation over the course of an expansion always brings any stat difference back to center anyway

So if they really wanted to completely redo Arms, they gotta find a way to make it actually distinct from Fury, not just the same spec with diff ability names and animations

[dim basalt]

Make Arms rageless

[rose ibex]

Arms is both the "skilled blademaster" spec but also the "hey im really freakin big strong and big smash you" spec which is kinda counter intuitive

[dire hinge]

https://klipy.com/gifs/feel-me-think-about-it-3

give us a bow

[rose ibex]

Look at us stacking haste anyways

[umbral badger]

if anything, slayer arms have been tilting more and more to fury fast playstyle "ofc not even close to fury" but it is actually confirming that their identity is getting mixed up rather than seperated

[latent moss]

ye cause we have enough rage to not really have forced downtime

so haste will always be king

[broken minnow]

Any update for 12.0.5?

[daring prairie]

time to bring back focused rage

[umbral badger]

if anything the reaosn i like colossus more than slayer arms is just because i feel like a "slower" fury with slayer arms now lol

[latent moss]

as archi said the only way to have a slow spec is to starve it from pressing buttons

[rose ibex]

Having playing both slayer fury and arms, they feel similar. Slayer feels like playing slayer. You can feel the commonalities more in that hero talent between specs than other hero talents

[latent moss]

and forced downtime is almost always bad gameplay

[umbral badger]

yes, exactly my point, they made slayer arms feel so much like fury it almost lost it's identity in this shit

lol

[rose ibex]

They are both super fast proc based specs

[somber elbow]

Hi, do you hold demolish for colossus smash when it desyncs due to anger management?

[dire hinge]

it's comign end of april, changes are still being finalized, but you can see what's been proposed here: #updates-midnight message

[rose ibex]

When im dog tired I dont like playing slayer on either spec

Even tho its simpler

Colo feels so much more chill

[umbral badger]

if anything, slayer fury having BIG cds more often just made it feel better on some bosses

[smoky kayak]

and so I have an extremely contentious solution - turn Arms into the melee Evoker - make practically every major ability a channeled or hold-to-cast empowered spell that has a moderate wind-up and big smash similar to Demolish/Bladestorm/Plunderstorm Fire Axe, essentially a short-duration melee-caster

• this actually does result in a slower APM rotation
• it better fulfills the fantasy of slow/big hits by giving you fewer of the in the same amount of time
• it can still be a highly mobile melee where skill is exhibited through the timing and aiming of your abilities

[dire hinge]

yes, CS is your checkpoint for all of your major cooldowns in all builds and content.
Only send your cooldowns if CS is available. If CS isn't available, hold it for the next one

[daring prairie]

As long as we can move while channeling

and jump 2 plz

[rose ibex]

Slayer fury feels obnoxiously fast. Like the game just was never meant to go that fast (or maybe im old)

[somber elbow]

Ty

[smoky kayak]

I would think so, yeah

[daring prairie]

o7

[umbral badger]

i mean that is fine, if we can move during channeling, if anything i said this here in this channel before. my favorite skills of all times was "channeling slam" but not if i am stuck in position

[clear walrus]

I've always thought that having a big demolish channel like the plunderstorm fire axe would be sick

[daring prairie]

look 12 years of slam canceling when moving has not trained me in the right way at all

[daring prairie]

if i wiggle, my dps noooo!

[rose ibex]

Haha yesssss

More channeled skills

[daring prairie]

reminds me of tera's berzerker

[smoky kayak]

I mean it's absolutely contentious - some people would hate it, but you can't deny that it would finally make Arms unique and distinct

[rose ibex]

BUT WITH BIG SMASH not triple woosh

[umbral badger]

like if any of you remember the channeling slam? hate it or love it it was doing nice dmg and it felt nice when it came out

[daring prairie]

Charge attacks with a few fast clips

[reef glade]

man tfw u join a 6 magister and not a single other individual in the key can trade a cape

[umbral badger]

nah bro i swear every old times warrior i know loved teh slam with channeling when it did good dmg

[reef glade]

i almost want to leave

[umbral badger]

so i don't think ppl would hate it

[reef glade]

but thatd be too bm

im due for loot this is the run

[umbral badger]

the concept it self did exist before

[smoky kayak]

I would probably still have a couple normal instant-GCD spells, like Slam/WW or something just as a low-rent filler, so you're not trying channel Demolish through every pack of a tmog run

[warm fog]

There is a GW2 specialization for warrior like that, bladesworn

[dire hinge]

to your point, it does give you that Great Sword style of gameplay from Monster Hunter, without impacting your APM or "wait for resources". Yeah you're gonna get your shit rocked by a swirly if you dont plan for it, but that's the trade-off for massive hits

[warm fog]

It’s pretty cool, it uses combos and charge up slashes

[smoky kayak]

but all the major abilities would be big delayed swings and smashes

[rose ibex]

When I think of arms warrior I think of characters like Cairne cleaving the earth with shockwaves from striking the ground so freakin hard

[warm fog]

Stores and spends flow

[umbral badger]

i'd much rather a casting time on my abilities if i can move if that will mean abilities will do good dmg

[dire hinge]

i wouldn't hate that for a Colosus build, and if people hate it go Slayer

[smoky kayak]

I don't think you'd be able to split that up by hero, I think it'd have to be the whole spec

[umbral badger]

but maybe it's just nostalgia for me as casting slam was a thing when i was a kid

damn now i wanna go play some classic server for some slam casting

xd

[warm fog]

Every melee is GCD locked, having one that isn’t would be a breath of fresh air

[rare kite]

how about making arms gcds not be affected by haste but have some other effect. holy moly overcooking here

[daring prairie]

kind like fire mage mastery?

[rose ibex]

Imagine being rewarded for timing them properly too. Hitting a sweet spot for bigger damage, kinda like a gears of war reload (but not as punishing)

[daring prairie]

more haste=% damage increase

[umbral badger]

was it TBC or classic classic with the casting slam ? wanna go have some fun

[daring prairie]

tbc

[smoky kayak]

I think this is tricky to do in a game like WoW, because you need to account for situations where it is/not possible, so I'd probably play it a little safer
but I get the idea, yeah

[rose ibex]

It would go with the arms theme of being a precise and disciplined warrior

[rare kite]

yuh

[daring prairie]

classic haaaaas it ubt its not goooood

[languid torrent]

Slam weaving in TBC but shits lame just play fury

[rose ibex]

Yeaaaah... maybe not... but maybe could be a cool capstone talent for the really sweaty folks

[umbral badger]

that's fine i just liked how it works so wanna have fun

[smoky kayak]

hypothetical, or you could even just give Arms a global negative haste modifier, but messing with core stats like that can result in some really weird results (cause you still want Haste to be a good stat, right?)

[shut peak]

Arms being the second "empowered" ability spec would be kinda cool. charged up hits that hit like a truck.

[umbral badger]

to be fair, saying haste gives damage is like saying "rework mastery" which i agree with but man imagine having 3 stats that give % dmg

yikes

[torn breach]

Demolish

[rose ibex]

Dumb-olish

[torn breach]

Delete it

[dire hinge]

i like channeled more than combo-spells like ret has tbh

[umbral badger]

i already hate how mastery and verstality do the same thing as a dps in pve, don't give me a 3rd stat that give the same thing i'd die of boredom while gearing

[daring prairie]

oooh imagine if cleave was a channel and the longer u held it the more damage and wider the cleave ark became

like nes from super smash brother

[warm fog]

Sounds like a lot of effort on blizzards part for checks notes brown class

[smoky kayak]

I mean there are only two ways to affect a "slow" playstyle

• you reduce the ability to fill the GCD
• you add more windup time to the hits themselves

[dire hinge]

gotta go replace the game's soundfile with the baseball bat "sheeeen!" noise

[rose ibex]

The core thing about channeled abilities is it needs to feel rewarding and not too awkward. Demolish suffers from being terribly awkward

[smoky kayak]

I don't think Demo is that bad tbh

[clear walrus]

Maybe have demolish echo aoe slams like some poe shit if you charge it fully

[soft gust]

I dont know how the self root has survived so long

[rose ibex]

If demolish was just a readable cone like evoker breath it would be far better

[rare kite]

yup. historically energy classes haste has been really bad for, chances are it would be the same for arms. they fixed it for windwalker by giving fists of fury a fuck ton of damage based on haste which is a bit...

[daring prairie]

Me when the tank rips the pack away from my self root

[torn breach]

I cry every time my tanks make a micro movement

[umbral badger]

there is also the 3rd way, abilities that affect global cd to buff you "basically like focused rage' but they failed that experiment before

[dire hinge]

🤓 ☝️ it's a square

[rare kite]

arms would be similar most likely

[smoky kayak]

tbf they did address that pretty well last expansion, you dont just lose the demo anymore

[warm fog]

I think demolish should be a big wind up attack

[daring prairie]

yeah true now the tank just sprints off and i slam the ground like bam bam

[dire hinge]

(and you can heroic leap! it's cursed but it works!)

[daring prairie]

:C

please just let me fucking move with it

[smoky kayak]

it's not really slower though, you're still pressing buttons you're just not getting an immediate payout

[daring prairie]

IF i can move with bs i can move with demolish

[umbral badger]

yea that's probably why it failed

[daring prairie]

the tech fucking exist

[smoky kayak]

you can leap/charge/interpose

or baby crawl

[daring prairie]

Yes but u know what i can do wish bs?

i can push the w kery

[dire hinge]

yeah i love how they were like "it works like fists of fury" and got corrected that monk can move with FoF
(fr though you can Heroic Leap mid channel to keep your cast going, it's cursed)

[smoky kayak]

BS also lasts a lot longer

[umbral badger]

yea as i said it existed before too, casting as a warrior "rather than channeling"

[rose ibex]

A square you need to be within range of a target to activate, no visual indicator for area coverage, and plants you in place the whole time focusing your direction on the target

[umbral badger]

but over the years you realize blizzard actually dropped many good ideas that might not have been good then but are good now

[daring prairie]

I love my mobile melee user being rooted i fucking hate roots if i wanted to be rooted ill go back to ss and fight 2 more frost mages

[rose ibex]

I dislike it... but I want to like ot

And I LOVE big crits

[smoky kayak]

it's actually more of a claymore, it has a surprisingly long forward range, but an extremely small backsplash

[ripe field]

Am I fudging rotation badly or is arms ST still low-mid range? Like maybe 15-20% ahead of most tanks in ST

[dire hinge]

it has a few fun applications, like how you can Demo through the final boss of windspire's circle, or the knockback on Seat

[umbral badger]

demolish is fun, just needs some kind of flexibility imo

[daring prairie]

yes i can leap, yes i can use my movement to move my demolish

but why do i have 2

why do i get penalized for channeling on a melee again

[dire hinge]

oh by all means i agree

[rare kite]

for what content? colossus st pretty bad in m+ still

[daring prairie]

does demolish break mobs or do something other means, damage

[umbral badger]

what if demolish was an actual slam, kinda like the second use of champion's spear ? no joke that would be so fking cool

[daring prairie]

like 10% dr wooptie

[torn breach]

Bring back ancient aftershock

[daring prairie]

or if it was just 1 fucking hit instead of a 3 part

[ripe field]

Yeah for M+. AoE feels quite competitive with other classes, but its hard to justify the single target dam

[daring prairie]

here put a massive blead on it bl;izzard thats ur favorite tuning nob anyway

[torn breach]

No one fw champion spear anyway

[dire hinge]

also hate the fact it's targeted. If a mob teleports to behind a ranged you're suddenly pointed in a different direction. Wish it worked like Cleave

[umbral badger]

god damn , now i just convinced my self i want demolish to be like the second use of champion spear, leap in the air and land on the ground fking smashing everything

daaamn

[rare kite]

go slayer for pugs. colossus st is pretty good if tanks pull adds with boss but expecting pugs to do so is rough, also slayer is very competitive with col

[dire hinge]

for a little bit we had a talent on beta that made our Heroic Leap vaccum enemies in
would have been sick combo'd with a spear or demo

[daring prairie]

yeah it has a ton of issues that spells in the past simply dont

so no i dont like demolish it could do 12 times the damage and my taxes and i would still treat it like its the second comming of ravager

[robust cypress]

How different is slayer vs colossus in m+? any big rotation differences? is one better than the other in only certain dungeons?

[rare kite]

hahah we're gonna be demolishing alot more in 2 weeks. better learn to like it

[umbral badger]

MAKE DEMOLISH GREAT AGAIN "it's never been what i am thinking though " xd

[daring prairie]

thats the other part i dont get

arms is the slow spec

4 demolishes a minute

what am i a construction company?

[umbral badger]

4 demolishes a min? bro i wish i had that many on ST

[daring prairie]

congratulations, its just another maintenance buff now.

[umbral badger]

i have an entire hero talent that i hardly see on ST xd

[daring prairie]

Push this butten for a free ms crit

[umbral badger]

ok now so lets make dmeolish a leapslam

GET ON IT arch

[rose ibex]

What that's so freakin cooooool

People would love us for it too

[warm fog]

Then they were like “what if we made spear like this but worse in every way”

[umbral badger]

spear is literally just a pvp thing and honeslty, kinda op in pvp

bruv i spear a DH the other day , his thing when he flies in the air failed xd

[dire hinge]

gimme a Glyph that makes my demolish briefly show the ground-animation from Ancient Aftershock

[umbral badger]

that was a WTF moment ofr me

[warm fog]

We should lean into the Norse gods Angle, make us pantheon from LoL

[rose ibex]

Yeah! But warriory. Like big cracks in the earth and dust

[warm fog]

And I know that’s Greek

[rose ibex]

We need more pantheon and we need more sion

[umbral badger]

only problem with demolish being a leap slam as it currently functions, you'd be jumping like a kangaroo in m+

[rose ibex]

They want us to be Darius tho

[warm fog]

Make colossus into sion

[rose ibex]

Yes

Bigger smashes

Charged colossus smash

[daring prairie]

another angle is they could make the base rotation slow the cds long and the filler spammy

Make our mastery increase the duration of csmash or some shit

[warm fog]

3000% AP charge that I build up over time

[daring prairie]

csmash 45 seconds again no fishing

[warm fog]

It’s a skill shot, if I miss I yeet off the boss platform

[daring prairie]

ms and ww like god intended, cleave and heroic strike fast and spammy rage dumps. Everything hits hard in the base rotation.

ms buff cleave/hs, execute buffs nothing just does damage, crazy idea i know. Slam unbound and unbothered

[warm fog]

“We hear your feedback and are bringing back juggernaut stacks”

[daring prairie]

everythign a buff is gunna make me blow a fucking blood vessle

Just let it do damage

[dire hinge]

yeaaah, big fan of just... turning off buffs tbh. Most of them dont' impact your rotation anyways

or impact it very little

[rare kite]

do not utter such cursed words

[warm fog]

I still think any arms design not built around enormous mortal strikes is a non starter

[daring prairie]

I wanna push mortal strike and i wanna feel like im bending my keybord around an enemies head. WHen i hit my ms key i wanna know that the harder i hit my key, the harder my ms hits. I want ms to hit so hard i can see the mob loosing polygons and data.

[warm fog]

💯

[rare kite]

50% ep. it is needed, will make execute phase ms hit like a truck

[daring prairie]

i dont care if ms is a 12 second cd i want that shit to HURT

[smoky kayak]

MS is Arms' strongest individual attack

[umbral badger]

oh yea i remember now there was a bajeera "not sure exactly about his name" clip i think where he was answering a follower, follower asked "will arms be good" and bajeera answered "depends, if they allow it to do damage".

it turned out so true

[daring prairie]

MORE

[warm fog]

But it could be stronger

[smoky kayak]

This is how you end up with Cleave doing 35% of your damage and everything else doing 5 lol

[daring prairie]

Im ok with that

[warm fog]

Yeah but that’s cleave

[daring prairie]

ITs my main ability

[smoky kayak]

you say that now, but the gameplay ends up sucking hard

[daring prairie]

let that shit hit hard

[umbral badger]

i want a stronger mortal strike, same levels as s3 TWW mortals would be cool

[rose ibex]

As op as cleave is, cleave combo as a talent is pretty fun

Whooooosh

Whoosh whoosh

[daring prairie]

Woshh woosh

kinda feels like im swinging a big fan

also the interaction with hs/slam, very cool!

[smoky kayak]

practically twice the damage or more of every other ability btw

[daring prairie]

with 3 targets

[rose ibex]

When you are jacked on haste and it just feels like you are waving your weapon back and forth like sweeping a broom

[daring prairie]

then you know what im just an uninformed bozo

[lone raft]

very depressing barely pressing execute as colo

[umbral badger]

i mean we already have that sample don't we ? slayer cleave is not as op as colossus and it makes the damage split for slayer feel more natural when you look at damage meter. on the other hand colossus feels like CLEAVE CLEAVE CLEAVE CLEAVE

[smoky kayak]

I mean this is largely single target, multitarget is a diff story

[daring prairie]

I think the other problem is that, every situation that u see arms excell, is in aoe

U dont see its single target profile

[smoky kayak]

That I agree with - Arms needs some mega ST buffs

[daring prairie]

Like im gunna go to paladins to hit the cleave key

and thats it

[rose ibex]

I get what you mean. Sound design should be more BIG SMASH CRUNCH and less claaaang

[warm fog]

Gimme slightly fewer casts of it so it can hit harder

[rare kite]

[smoky kayak]

I'm ok with giving up 25% of my ST to do AoE... but not when my ST is barely middle of the pack to begin with

[rose ibex]

Perhaps it just needs better art

[rare kite]

unbelievably based @daring prairie

[daring prairie]

I AM WHO I AM

RAAAH

[smoky kayak]

you know what, I'll give you props that at least you can admit a challenge to your PoV, most people just double down

[daring prairie]

Hey i cant be right all the time

Aint no way

[umbral badger]

i think one of the things you guys need to remember too, is that slayer mortal strike sometimes it feels like it hits harder cuz of sudden death procs and i honestly enjoy mortal strike numbers in AoE after i hit some sudden deaths

[daring prairie]

theres smarter people out there doing smarter things ill leave the smart guys to figure it out i just hit the keybord

[dire hinge]

i know they're worried about indirectly scaling our AoE more by buffing ST (since we use abilities in both), but i'd love even a "Ability does X% more damage if it only strikes a single target" for things Bladestorm, Demo, or even MS itself

[warm fog]

Is there. Way to find out the biggest hits on the crown adds in phase 1

[umbral badger]

it's like all those design issues are magnified as colossus compared to slayer

[rare kite]

already have that for bladestorm

[dire hinge]

exactly

[daring prairie]

So ms does hit hard, but why do i feel like it dosent hit hard, is it a ui or a lack of haptic feedback

maybe i need the nintendo 64 rumble controller back

[rose ibex]

No way my pesky brain is going to steal any blood from my big hungry muscles

[daring prairie]

harder the ms my keybord shakes

[warm fog]

I think it’s the cast numbers

[smoky kayak]

personally, while yes I want the "main ability" to hit hard, I really dislike all the 1-3% damage contributors

• I would honestly be happier reducing MS damage if those other abilities could feel more meaningful instead
  and my reasoning for that is pretty simple - I'm still going to press MS on CD no matter what, but then it wouldnt' feel like a waste of time to press Rend or Slam or have Fatal Mark explode

[umbral badger]

for colosuss at least, MS does not hit hard enough. thus colossus is behind in ST imo

[dire hinge]

in WarcraftLogs you can swap to "Damage Done" and look at "Enemies" and see what they're casting that hits the hardest, and when.
Can also look at your own "damage taken" for that portion.

[daring prairie]

well hard in comparison to everythign else in our kit in singletarget

archi showed me that

[warm fog]

I meant like game wise

I wanna see the biggest cleave

[dire hinge]

what's gamewise mean 👀

[umbral badger]

i guess we have opposite opinion here, for colossus i like when mortal strike does a lot of dmg but i do agree with your point for slayer

[rare kite]

it's just the variance. it CAN hit very hard, like a fierce followthrough 2EP ms. better hope it crits, the damage difference will be massive

[smoky kayak]

TBF Colossus' MS is stronger than Slayer's

[warm fog]

Sorry game wide

[daring prairie]

mhn i need an addon like bloodsplatter again or something just fucking shake my whole shit whenever ms hits that nuclear bomb pop levels of damage

i think the lack of a damage frame or something is fucking up my perspective

[umbral badger]

it is but sadly overall dmg of Mortal on ST right now is higher for slayer cuz of unhinged and cuz of sudden death + execitopmer precision "at least in the samples i checked for Colossus vs slayer on saladar"

[dire hinge]

right, but walk me through what information you're trying to glean.
Are you looking for how to do the most damage in p1?

[warm fog]

No I want to see who has landed the single biggest hits

[dire hinge]

ahhh

[umbral badger]

i don't like it when colossus mortal strike overall dmg on ST boss is lower than Slayer

[reef glade]

whoever tf this is is the reason i cant get traded a cape this guy dropped nice

fuckin emir man

[warm fog]

Like super high void puddle stacks, CS window etc

[daring prairie]

Lmao

[reef glade]

level your professions

[dire hinge]

im not sure if that's easily available since it's gonna need to be pulled per-log, then compared individually. WCL only tracks overalls easily, so high individual hits wont show that easily

[dire hinge]

modern day Ea-Nasir

[umbral badger]

i think mortal strike in TWW season 3 for colossus was much higher relative to other specs/classes than it is now

[daring prairie]

what do u guys use to see ur damage i used to use somekinda scrolling combat text

[lone yarrow]

channeled melee giga dam hits would be omega cool for arms

[daring prairie]

but there all kinda dead no?

[rare kite]

all i want is EP 50%. i want HUGE ms after 2 executes

[dire hinge]

wait, can't you set a minimum craft requirement? You can say "only gimme 5 star"

[smoky kayak]

lemme explain it another way - for the sake of argument, let's say you have 5 buttons and you always press in order 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5

Which would you rather?

• 1 makes up 50% of your damage, 2 - 5 make up 10% each (Mortal Strike deals the majority of your damage and the rest doesn't really matter)
• 1 - 5 all make up 20% of your damage (all buttons equal)
• 1 makes up 35% of your damage, 2 - 5 make up 16.5% each (aka Mortal Strike hits twice as hard as everything else)

[lone yarrow]

ffxiv does it with samurai and you feel the dam even with ffxiv's dogshit combat system

[daring prairie]

1 and install an auto clicker

[smoky kayak]

ok but you're gonna have to nerf Execute or MS baseline to pay for it

[warm fog]

I had like a 700k bloodbath crit on Morium on our heroic kill last night and I was just curious how high it could go

[daring prairie]

IO know thats the wrong anser

but i like it!

[rare kite]

https://tenor.com/view/deal-damn-good-deal-good-deal-id-make-that-deal-gif-27676387

[smoky kayak]

I mean it's not really a right or wrong, it's just explaining how relationships between abilities works

[daring prairie]

yeah :c

[smoky kayak]

My preference is 3, because you can still have an ability that feels meaningfully stronger than everything else without making everything else inconsequential

the real issue in WoW is you don't just have 5 sources of damage, you have like 23, and 9 of them are worth <4% each

[daring prairie]

True

[umbral badger]

1 and 3 basically :p bu i don't mind either as long as mortal strike feels like it does either. but right now, this is what mortal strike look like on pure ST for noblewinter

it's 27%

so it's neither 50% or 35% it just sucks

[rare kite]

my preference is 3 as well. ms 35% sounds good to me, with reap getting removed from st maybe there is actual room for ms buffs

[rose ibex]

Do you guys think our attachment to the execute phase hurts our development and design as our power budget always needs to factor in the execute phase?

[dire hinge]

yeah, even if you filter to just P1, the data is mostly "casts, Avg Cast, hits, Average Hit, and Crit %"
unfortunately not "largest hit".
Then you'd have to filter by which add happened to get done 3rd, just a mess to filter

[warm fog]

Yeah oh well

[wraith nova]

So, new arms, what am I missing here: Icy veins dont list Heroic Strike in the AoE prio list, and it seems its consumed by... Cleave? Glow disapears from the button atleast. Am I missing some text that triggers it in AoE without using it?

[daring prairie]

yeah cleave

[dire hinge]

correct!

[warm fog]

It wasn’t until last night it really sunk in that all the damage in that phase is timing your CDs for high stacks

[smoky kayak]

like I'm gonna use this example again - I love Colossus Smash, but does it need to deal only 2% of our damage? It makes the big cooldown feel weak, even if the actual debuff is strong
and I know Rend is contentious, but doing barely 3% of our damage makes me feel like I might as well just skip the GCD!

[daring prairie]

Blitz made a good video breaking down all of it it was very helpfull 2 me

thank u for putting what ive been feeling in readable words archi

[wraith nova]

Well then.. 1. Where does it say that? 😛 and 2. God, Ive been playing like a dumbass then

[daring prairie]

Fuck rend, fuck cs, MORE MS RAAAAAH

[umbral badger]

LOL believe it or not , some of hte top warriors logs on vorasius i found on rend or barely any rend

[rare kite]

it's a bit more "technically" since it procs reap, tho in 2 weeks it won't. i know what you mean tho just being a lil pedantic mfker

[umbral badger]

so it's already the case

[smoky kayak]

Well I actually want CS to do more damage

[daring prairie]

oh

[dire hinge]

It's your Fervor of Battle talent.

• If cleave hits 3+ target, you'll also cast Slam* on your main target, and buff Slam* by 50%
• This is affected by Sweeping Strikes, so you spawn two at once by pressing Cleave

[daring prairie]

fuck rend?

[smoky kayak]

Oh I know, I'm one of them
in fact, all of my guides say "Rend is so minor you don't actually need to press it"

[sharp wyvern]

yes

[umbral badger]

like arch i promise you when i was tyring to look what ppl do on second boss i found some top arms logs without rend and i was like ROFL

so fking funny

how much that bleed fallen

[wraith nova]

Ah ofcourse! I thought it was weird some talent would affect a new ability in the apex, but its just an upgraded slam. Well, damn, thanks

[dire hinge]

oh yeah, in single target Rend isn't that important

[daring prairie]

its just used in aoe atleast from what i understand, and ignored on single

but i am a creature of habit, and its good for me to push it to help me remember to push it

[paper gulch]

Honestly just add it to the deep wounds talents and call it a day.

[umbral badger]

BRO EVEN THE rage regen is shit from ST rend. what is this ? can't they make it give us more rage and limit the rage regen to 5 targets?

wait, what about that arch ? xd

that's a good idea , no ?

[rare kite]

i had 64% rend uptime on my rank 12. arms parsing is so weird

[daring prairie]

Best rage regen for rend on single is not using it

[dire hinge]

absolutely! It's not always super apparent, so we're here to help 🎉
great eye spotting that, and yes in AoE never press Heroic Strike manually, it makes it do 50% less damage + removes a second free cast, so it's a HUGE loss to press it directly

[smoky kayak]

it actually does use exponetial scaling to reduce the amount of procs you get when ticking on multiple targets

[daring prairie]

hit it by mistake

[smoky kayak]

basically the more targets rend is applied to, the less bloodsurge procs, specifically to keep it from generating insane amounts of rage in AoE (which if anyone remembers WoD, is exactly what happened)

[winged marsh]

Hey all, im struggling with single target damage as Arms, anyone else having any issues

[shut kiln]

Trying out colossus arms as a fury main. Do i hold demolish for colossus smash even though it gets cdr?

[ripe field]

I get that adds into boss will improve overall, but does this actually act as funnel for more boss damage, or simply more targets == more damage over the same period?

[daring prairie]

Wait did they fix nameplate scrolling combat text?

[umbral badger]

i am fine iwht that, just make it 16 rage or some shit on ST

so we can actually hit the fking boss

xd

[daring prairie]

also strange question but do u feel like u have to get really close to hit mobs as arms?

[smoky kayak]

I think Rend could actually afford to be free to Arms, but I don't actually care all that much either

[dire hinge]

this is to be expected for M+ Arms especially.
You can try using Slayer builds for M+ to do more boss damage, but it's just how our kit is designed atm. You can always post logs in the #1347646810457636974 if you want more direct feedback 🎉

[rare kite]

yes it acts as funnel. more demolishes and fervor of battle and more rage. col gains alot of st damage by having adds

[daring prairie]

like closer then fury?

or am i just inexperianced

[umbral badger]

damn i am getting angry remembering my experience as colossus ST, respect ot noblewinter for being the last man standing in that spec

[daring prairie]

or maybe its just fear of demolish wiffing

[ripe field]

Makes sense. It'd be interesting to see how Arms ST scales with number of adds

[umbral badger]

the last man standing memes are real

[ripe field]

Like, maybe its actually closer to the ~100-110k ST DPS mark

[winged marsh]

thanks for your reply, i use wowhead, are there any otehr websites anyone knows off for rotation help or anything to read

[smoky kayak]

Mythic saladbar is a big aoe fight, so he probably went full cleave build

[dire hinge]

Yeah, treat your CS like a "checkpoint" for all of your other major cooldowns. Both have different cooldown rates, (Anger Management + Colossal Might)
Use your major cooldowns alongside a CS.
If CS isn't available, save the cooldown for the next available CS.

[rare kite]

idk how high it is but it's atleast higher than the 50k pure st xD

[dire hinge]

theyr'e basically all written by folks here in the discord, and should all say the same (basic) content. If you have a question about a specific part of the rotation we can absolutely help clarify things!

[umbral badger]

yea but he is the last man standing on othe fights too :p i know cuz i was always trying to beat him as colossus in TWW so he is just the type of guy who refuses to play something else most of hte times

so can call him last man standing xd

the last samurai

[rose ibex]

Saladbar is aoe in mythic? Wow

[umbral badger]

this guy REFUSES to not play colossus

[rose ibex]

Goes from pure st to aoe?

[umbral badger]

blizzard should give him some respect and buff us 😮

[umbral badger]

depends on what you need for the raid

[rose ibex]

Ill probably never touch mythic raiding

[umbral badger]

but overall it's a thane fight cuz thane does not lose much ST while doing the AoE

[wraith nova]

Sure noticed a difference on the dummies. Though, when I read the AoE prio more carefully and started doing this, I feel more ragestarved than before.

[rose ibex]

My buds are mostly into m+ and we only raid for gear

But its cool that things change

[umbral badger]

i mean first few mythic bosses always end up a pugging goal too

so you can always enjoy some of that

that being said it is not COLOSSUS aoe fight

[rose ibex]

Ehhh. People are very exclusive in pug raids

[umbral badger]

cuz the wya the aoe works in that fight does not suit colossus much

[shut kiln]

Tyvm, so the entire dmg profile is always around cs, tyty

[rose ibex]

It feels awful getting booted even though you are playing your heart out

[umbral badger]

that's why i hate this raid tier, i am playing specs i genuinly hate just to help the guild as much as i can

[dire hinge]

yuppers! and that applies for all the builds, and in all types of content. It's weird, but at least it's consistently weird

[umbral badger]

fury hater playing fury 🙁

[rose ibex]

Do all mechanics, use all consumes, last longer than any other dps, still get booted

Sorry your 60k to 70k isnt good enough

Should have padded more

Feels bad

[umbral badger]

if you are pugging you gotta pad sometimes to keep your spot probably

dunno

otherwise forced to play the better spec

[rose ibex]

Theres only so much padding to go around is the thing

Adds get deleted

BS isnt always up

Zug zug or shrug shrug

[umbral badger]

for colossus there isn't much padding cuz of how fast adds die or cuz of the direction of adds, especially in pugs but slayer can still do good dps even if not pading

so go slayer

like i went heroic raid for fun today and got good parses as slayer and i did not even touch the adds :p just tunnel vision on boss

[ripe field]

Yeah this is something that kinda bothers me. It's like you can play to parse or play for the boss kill and while there is some overlap in objectives they do differ.

[rose ibex]

Yeah ive been just saving BS for add phases on the relevent bosses and full sending CS. If they align during the adds great. If not, oh well

[umbral badger]

don't

just od ST

you can easily pull 90k to 100k as slayer ST

so fk adds

[ripe field]

And most players, raid leads, etc equate ability to parse with overall skill so iono

[rose ibex]

Ehh I dunno about that

I think i get 70k tops on pure st

With all raid buffs and consumes

[dire hinge]

create new goals for yourself
become the healing warrior and take more damage than the tanks

it's a great time, i promise

[rose ibex]

looks at my engineering goblin degree in my bank

[umbral badger]

well, at least for me i never use BS outside of CS and that's how my ST is fine with slayer. if you save BS for adds you just kill your ST

cuz bladestorm is too big ofr ST right now

cuz of 4 set

[rose ibex]

cries

[dire hinge]

it makes reclears more fun

[rose ibex]

Im 272 ilvl, but my trinkets are still champ. You think they are majorly holding me back?

[rose ibex]

Hot

I need to log

[umbral badger]

nope, my trinkets are champ too. and in fact, cruicible is almost as good as any hero trinket

ancient hunger is nice to have but if you don't have champ ancient hunger, you can farm hero solarflare 'or whtever is it called"

solarflare at hero is decent

but cruicible at this gear level literally sims very well even compared to hero trinkets

so if you are lakcing in dps you just need a bit of practice following wowhead guide

i'd say main rule as slayer from what i learned is, don't overthink it, just follow the guide and don't think about "leaving BS for adds" cuz BS 4 set is too big to lose on ST

[rose ibex]

Hmmmm ive been using wind heart and crit crystal from bird town. I should prolly upgrade the crucible and use that instead

[umbral badger]

oh yea , if you have done topgear sims using raidbots you would never drop cruicible

it's too strong

at champion trinekt tier

cruicible is king

and even at hero trinket tier for hte most part

[rose ibex]

Damn. Ok then

Glad I didnt DE it

Still, I dunno how I can get an extra 30k on pure single target

[umbral badger]

at least for me i wish to change curicible and i can't xd

you just need to aim at maybe 85k with your gear or 80k

opener is very importnat too

so basically you have this opener,

[rose ibex]

Like full consumes on training dummy with pure focus on rotation is not even really that great but maybe the raid buffs are what help

[umbral badger]

i do like ot use mortalstrike before BS for one more CS second though but i don't think it matters

[rose ibex]

Its not like I have lust for training dummy for example

[umbral badger]

if you are not doing this Opener you are gonna get sudden death procs and it makes things awkward

[rose ibex]

Or windfury

[rose ibex]

I think this is smart just because ms will come off cd after bs is over

So might as well cycle it

[umbral badger]

yes but if it was higher dps arch would have probably put it i nthe list

but i do like to do it nevertheless

i don't think it losses you much or gives you much either way

[sand totem]

Our heals are pretty subpar, so ya boy be paraing orange just trynna fucking live big dawg

[rose ibex]

I try to charge , pre pot + ava, cs, ms, bs

For opener

[umbral badger]

my point is, don't delay BS for starters cuz if you stack 2 sudden deahts and then BS you might lose Sudden death procs

[rose ibex]

Rend is a sad button

[umbral badger]

fk the adds

[rose ibex]

If my buds are raiding I wont care but I think you do gotta pad with pugs

[umbral badger]

yes that's why i enjoy starting with mortal strike atm, just cuz rend sucks and i like increasing my chances for a deepwounds

[rose ibex]

Ww is really bad :/

[umbral badger]

anyway my point is if you wanna raid HC in pugs, focus pure ST nad you get top 5 easily even if u don't pad

don't worry about it

[robust coyote]

damn dude, this would be awesome

[umbral badger]

time for a fast Age of empires 2 game

best way to chill

[rose ibex]

I should probably throw myself into these raids just for practice even if I cant get gear

[trim pike]

yo anyone have an addon suggestion to move my rage bar and it show numbers

[mighty bridge]

am i crazy or is sealed chaos urn kinda good as long as you dont need berserker rage for anything else

[river ridge]

I use sensi's class resource addon for it, but the UI-Addon Managers channel probalby has a better solution

[umbral badger]

pretty sure my berserker rage did not remove the cc from it

[trim pike]

ty

[umbral badger]

when i tried it early expansion

[mighty bridge]

it does

[safe gyro]

hey lads, any tips with cd management? trying to figure out when to hold/send cds since they all like to desync like crazy.

[umbral badger]

then it's nice

i remembe trying it and it did not work then i hted it

[river ridge]

Send CDs with Colossus Smash. Don't hold Avatar for Ravager/Bladestorm and vice-versa. Hold Avatar & Ravager/Bladestorm for CS tho

[mighty bridge]

yeah idk maybe they changed it. almost 1000 stats for 20 seconds is kinda cracked tho

[safe gyro]

What about situations where colossus smash is up but i have 15ish seconds left on avater/bladestorm

[river ridge]

Send CS

[umbral badger]

to be fair though 15 seconds is not 15 seconds in this case :p

[smoky kayak]

fwiw, Avatar/CS should never misalign unless you did something wrong, since they are affected by CDR at the same rate

[umbral badger]

if anything the only thing that always confuses me is BS + avatar, sometimes they align and sometimes not and avatar feels so bad without BS extending the CS duration

xd

[river ridge]

It should if you have 4P

[smoky kayak]

generally just make sure BS is used during CS, whether it's also with Avatar or not

[umbral badger]

naah sometime syou get a trillion execute proc

i hatei t

[daring prairie]

ok after messing with it, i think a big part of the issue is just a lack of Scrolling battle text I have no way to dissern how hard im hitting outside of logs

[dire hinge]

once you get 4piece, you'll be able to extend the duration of your CS by a decent amount. So you can send CS, and then if BS comes up within a few seconds after it's fine

[daring prairie]

I miss Nameplate :C

[river ridge]

Was talking about the extension part. Sorry I didn't make that clear

[umbral badger]

ah yea we always BS with CS regardless

[safe gyro]

roger, thanks for the help lads

[smoky kayak]

while you can sometimes god roll SD procs to get BS back up before the next CS, you generally want to wait for the next CS anyway, since the overlap of CS, Unhinged, and Violent Euphoria is so strong together

[umbral badger]

i just hate how when it keeps aligning with avatar i do much more than when it desyncs the netire fight

[daring prairie]

I should try a slayer key

maybe ill like it more then colo

[livid cloak]

I just watched the biz video guide, he says to burn your free cleaves before bladestorming, what's the logic behind that

[river ridge]

Do eet! Can be fun even in lower keys! I think I ended at 141k overall last night in a Magister's 10

[umbral badger]

do it , i learned today that i do much better as slayer if the tank is pulling so weirdly

i am better with colosuss but with chaos colossus feels like ass

[daring prairie]

o7

i ran a 12 as colo but i deff giga griefed

[umbral badger]

like i did 160k in pit of saron "whicih is low for the key" but the tank was chain pulling 2 or 3 monsters , half hp, then he goes 2 -3 again

was disgusting

if i was colossus there i'd do zero dps

[livid cloak]

Why would you not want the free cleaves to benefit from MBG after bladestorm?

[soft gust]

Mbg doesnt exist anymore

Cleave buff only tied to ravager now

[livid cloak]

Only for ravager ?

Ah okay

[rose ibex]

Is it worth holding bs for ava or just send it once you can pair it with cs?

[umbral badger]

he and critcakes do that, but i can tell you there is more nuance to that and it's not 100% correct

[daring prairie]

rage thing?

[umbral badger]

like i don't even know what happened exactly but prio blamestorm on one of the packs lost me decent CS duraiton and i felt bad

i dont' remember if it was the tank doing weird stuffo r what

but since chaos happen gotta have fast judgment is my point

[tawdry bear]

He does mention that he sends bladestorm right away. All depends on senario. Stacks vs rage vs cooldowns.

In some scenarios.

[umbral badger]

yea gotta watch his video for some slayer tips too

but yes based on scenario seems right

[tawdry bear]

Hard to spam cleave if you have no rage.

So starting with bladestorm helps get the rage.

[umbral badger]

yea rend into CS into BS is what i do personally on first pull and i try to maintain that

to let rend get me some rage

but my slayer kinda 20k behind Colossus with proper tank pulling

[hard rock]

anyone know how to make rend flash when its about to drop from ur target

[umbral badger]

so i am doing mistakes still

[smoky kayak]

that's cause the APL says to do, though I've considered changing it - in practice, sending Bladestorm first seems to be more reliable, since it gets the ability on cooldown and makes it more likely to get back again by the next CS
cc: @livid cloak

the sim difference is practically negligible btw - the diff is getting cleave on cooldown faster vs getting bladestorm on cd faster and better overlap of Violent Euphoria

[livid cloak]

Interesting okay!

[umbral badger]

yea and also BS seems to do more dmg when it has 3 stacks and it kinda feels good

[smoky kayak]

well ofc BS does more damage at 3 stacks, that's what the stacks do!

[umbral badger]

i meant compared to first pull xd

wheere

[wide pebble]

@smoky kayak on paladins should you send demolish on pull right after popping CDs or build stacks first?

[umbral badger]

first pull id ont' mind doing 4 cleaves

but after that i don't care

ok now i am not explaining my self xd

so i like doing 4 cleaves on first pull, but after that i don't care

cuz first pull no BS stacks

but ofc there is also the rage issue

[smoky kayak]

so sim would say send it at the end of CS to get more stacks, but because you don't want to wait too long and have targets move on you, you should send it ASAP

[rugged ferry]

question gamers, is there some sort of addon that audibles your sweeping strike stacks? similar to improved ww addon

[wide pebble]

Perfect, thanks man! I’ve been sending one MS before demolish in case I get 1 stack but it’s basically immediate

[native brook]

What buff do arms take in AA?

[umbral badger]

so to be more precise, first pull only when BS has zero stacks. is it more dps or less dps to do cleaves more ? i am going with the assumption that only on first pull 'if we have the rage" to do 4 cleaves it's better

[smoky kayak]

I mean that's fine, not gonna really change anything

[umbral badger]

and after first pull it feels to me to not matter basically when bs does mro dmg with stacks

[smoky kayak]

sending the 4 cleaves first doesn't do anything for BS other than give time for SD to proc; in which case it's still a gamble either way

• sending BS first may be weaker, but it has a better chance of coming back off CD in time for the next CS
• sending Cleave first may or may not proc SD to put before the BS
• either way you're sending BS before you get 3 stacks, so I just send BS asap

[umbral badger]

yea only for CS does it do something to send 4 cleaves first on first pull

but if it is still not a big difference then i won't even bother anymore

cuz i am thinking too much as a noob slayer

[hard rock]

anyone know how to make rend flash when its about to drop from ur target

[smoky kayak]

right click it in the CDM, there are alert options

[umbral badger]

hmm might need to work on my CDM too did nto even know it had funcitonalities like this

i was just winging it

[hard rock]

none of what I try to do makes it flash or something upon removal or timing out

it gets a red tint in the corners but i want to amplify that visually

[native brook]

Change the visuals

CDM only tracks your current target though

So anything outside of that you'll need specialized nameplates

[last saddle]

0.67

[native brook]

personally I'm using sound for rend

[hard rock]

may have to experiment with that

ty

[flint cedar]

all of these name changes -

[last saddle]

my cheeriors

[dire hinge]

great for things like Sudden Death procs too

[drowsy fiber]

Arms burst singeltarget is dogshit

[dire hinge]

im in the camp of "take everything in the CDM and throw it out of the window, then reskin things using other tools", but there's some decent options with the default UI if you dont mind screen clutter

[native brook]

Any suggestions on what buff to take in AA for arms?

[dire hinge]

Crit good

[fair topaz]

Fatal mark seems to do only 3% single target damage, wouldn't battle lord be a bigger improvement given the interaction with our tier set?

[mighty bridge]

how much dmg is the 4 set for us

[rare kite]

he's pretty decent

[minor gust]

I prefer Hastecake

Gotta go fast

[vast helm]

any good news?

[calm hollow]

anyone has a damage breakdown of a colossus key? feels like my Demolish dam was pretty low

was my 1st key as Colo, so for learning purposes

[reef glade]

vanquished

still 15s away from enrage

[magic canopy]

yippie

holy fuck plate helm legs and wep

[reef glade]

yea bdk wants weap more apparently but ig dont rly care since its prolly like arms tier for the rest of the raid

but got pants at least pog

cant upgrade doe

r4 despite so much early boss splitting

ripge

oh nah who the fuck got 216k as arms

yea this guy got turbo funneled by tanks

thats insane

[paper gulch]

It’s probably because you were apprehensive. Full send it

[calm hollow]

pretty much used it on cd, every single pull

it was only a 10 tho, so once per pull most of the time

[calm hollow]

brother, we killed the last boss single target for 50 sec on our kills

[jovial hare]

why ur name all crazy
also pog loot

[calm hollow]

even if i wanted couldnt pull a good log there

[reef glade]

yea can only hope once we get more comfy we just 5heal

[jovial hare]

oh

[reef glade]

and have more dps do more dmg

[jovial hare]

im an idiot LMAO

[reef glade]

and boss dies like a minute earlier

[calm hollow]

i hope wclogs removes every single add damage from logs soon

they can leave the big ones, which are not killed in 2 gcd

[nova marsh]

If they do that

Arms is gonna die

[vast helm]

blue post tomorrow ?

[calm hollow]

i dont think so

[nova marsh]

You give me hope

[nova marsh]

Well the colo raid dream will

[calm hollow]

its not fun, when you cant pull good numbers, because every single add, where you could pad dies in 2 gcd

[nova marsh]

I agree

But blizz made a pad tiers unfortunately

[calm hollow]

yea, this is the 1st tier in a long time i hate

[nova marsh]

This is the first full pad tiers weve had in a while

I mean

Tww s1 was pretty paddy too

[calm hollow]

i so much more prefer ST fights, maybe with 1 extra add to kill

[sage bison]

anyway to get a audible sound when 10 stacks of coll might?

[vast helm]

that's why fury got nerfed 5 times combo

[calm hollow]

think it was 3(?) times, but yea

at least we had good aoe burst there

OF did actual damage

[vapid spire]

is 58k on ST sims good ? or my gears sucks ?

[calm hollow]

link sim?

probably your gear suck

[vapid spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mCKaaVXzZcDtsi7gxN7RTt

[calm hollow]

or you dont use buffs

ah colo

[vapid spire]

Oh i think i forgot that part yea

[vast helm]

good on 2 targets and 3 targets fight but shit on ST is basically designed problem

[calm hollow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ashWqL9ufKhve7Wawy2V3C this is what you can sim in colo ST

if you want to sim for ST, sim as slayer

[kind stag]

helped my devourer dh friend in m0 and took colossus, it was lowk embarrassing

[vapid spire]

I hate the fact that we constantly have to swap talents for whatever encounter, ruins the fun

[kind stag]

good aoe dmg but on bosses i was trying hard to beat a devourer with way lower ilvl lmaooo

[robust cypress]

is arms or fury better for ?? difficulty

[kind stag]

fury imo

enragd regen op

[rare kite]

fury. it's just about living

[robust cypress]

darn

alrighty

[calm hollow]

i killed it in tank

[robust cypress]

should be easy at 273 ilvl right

[kind stag]

critcake has a great video i used his build and strat basically

yeah 273 is autowin lol

[calm hollow]

if you dont want the solo achi, just kill it in a 5 man group

[robust cypress]

bet

[vapid spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q5WdLx2uCVifejD1tuYy6b My Slayer sim

[calm hollow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pGHz4F7JhPQxcDsM24g1N6 if you want to compare

[last saddle]

🥄

[vast helm]

i just opened my bank last night and looked that old old old legendary items in 7.0 and 9.0 , and i wonder why didn't blizzard make this item to our talent trees , so many good designs and combo can use for now.

[last saddle]

im on champ alnseer still simming 88k

[vast helm]

[calm hollow]

this is not ST talents tho

[vapid spire]

This is my M+ talents

[calm hollow]

you can sim in m+ talents, if you only m+

its fine

[calm hollow]

i have champ hands

[vapid spire]

This is embarassing, we're on a boss

[last saddle]

ill trade u myth hands for myth alnseer 😄

[calm hollow]

give me Seat myth hands

[last saddle]

🤓 ☝️ actually seat hands arnt bis

[dire hinge]

i'll say! the healer didn't cat a single dps ability?

[minor gust]

Acktually alnseer isn't bis

[vapid spire]

No

[dire hinge]

not even a flameshock

[last saddle]

is algethar beter

bc of on use tricknology

[calm hollow]

oh btw i got alnseer with a roll and the other trink was in vault

[minor gust]

Heart and plume end up being BIS but alnseer isn't actually that far behind plume. Fuck puzzyB

[kind stag]

i wish i could get any trinkets

champion trinket jail

[barren void]

Im cursed with a myth track puzzle box from my vault, have to suffer with its use

[calm hollow]

not gonna lie, i would take a socket over puzzle box

i hated using it in DF

at least we could use it while bladestorming in m+

[barren void]

Yeah it aint fun to use

[hallow python]

hey guys sorry I'm late to the party but I have a few questions after reading the wowhead guide and the FAQs here. but my first one is why did Arms jump up to S tier all of a sudden?

[calm hollow]

did it?

[hallow python]

from what I've seen

[dire hinge]

it did yeah, tier lists like Archon pull from top M+ logs on Raider.io/Blizz's leaderboards, and we have some absolutely goated arms M+ players atm

so the answer is "some good players did really well with Arms"

[calm hollow]

oh in m+, ok

[hallow python]

sorry mb I shoulda said

[dire hinge]

happy to help answer your questions about the WoWhead guide though! What's up?

[hallow python]

is the ST still lackluster?

[calm hollow]

yep

[dire hinge]

absolutely. You can play Slayer to help it a little bit though (more ST, slightly less AoE)

[hallow python]

trying to decide between Colossus or Slayer in m+ and I know its comparable

[calm hollow]

what level of keys you plan on running?

[hallow python]

10-12 for now

[dire hinge]

it's literally dead-even and doesn't matter numerically. Slayer does do a bit more boss damage, and is more flexible (ie: pug-friendly if your tank is pulling weirdly)

[calm hollow]

i would play slayer for more fun in that range, but thats me

i like doing dam on bosses

[hallow python]

yeah that sounds good

Demolish is cool but meh

[dire hinge]

try both though, it's free to swap talents

[calm hollow]

yea, try both, colo is fun too

on big pulls

[hallow python]

I cant believe I still cant take slam off my bars

[calm hollow]

i tried it, but you really cant

[hallow python]

I just read about heroic strike

[calm hollow]

rarely but you need to press it as a filler

(slam)

[calm hollow]

#showtooltip
/use [known:Heroic Strike] Heroic Strike; Mortal Strike

you can use this

if you dont want to put slam on your bar, just to press Heroic strike

[hallow python]

oh wow this is amazing lmao

I love macros

[calm hollow]

but i dont recommend, try dealing with it, you need it as a filler

[hallow python]

Arms still has hella buttons too

I'll get used to it

[calm hollow]

only colo

slayer is better

in terms of less buttons

[mental kernel]

si there any way to track sweeping strikes stacks with blizz's ui

or is that fcked

[hallow python]

it doesnt show on buffs for CD manager?

[mental kernel]

nope

[calm hollow]

it does

[mental kernel]

where

[mental kernel]

am i cooked lmao ?

[hallow python]

do you have it talented lol

[mental kernel]

its baseline

[hallow python]

weird

[calm hollow]

yep, its not a talent

[hallow python]

idk why it wouldnt show