arms

[thick kelp]

Bladestorm into Slayer tree when?

[dire hinge]

Ravager should summon a spinning copy of my own character the rolls in the mud kicking its feet

[strong pine]

Thr aoe is bonkers crazy

Ever pull past 250k

But bosses barely get past 45-50k

[smoky kayak]

if you want boss dam either play Slayer or run dungeons that can pull trash into bosses

[rose ibex]

What key is this?

[smoky kayak]

I'd be ok with this, but they'd still need to unfuck the spec tree

[thick kelp]

Slowly but surely. By Last Titan we might have a fluid version of this spec!

[dire hinge]

10 Windrunner Spire
this was abnormal because the tank was a god on earth and would pull half of the wing at a time.
2 pulls -> boss.
2 pull -> boss.
it was nuts

[strong pine]

I got a mage and Ele shamy in my group im good with them on boss dmg 😅
Just wanted to make aure i dont fk up to badly

[rose ibex]

Oh that makes me feel a little better

[strong pine]

Hows Arms innST raid with slayer
Bigger than fury or?

[rose ibex]

Ive been doing 12s and 13s and it feels like a struggle to get over 90k. I got my 3k for the first time ever as well

[dire hinge]

so this raid doesn't have a lot of single target in it to begin with, almost every fight has bursts of AoE throughout it.

For normal and heroic you can basically play whatever you want, it doesn't matter. For Mythic raid, fury is a bit stronger, but you can still take arms and perform well

[dire hinge]

oh nice! Yeah most dungeons you can push around 100k-120k, but it fluctuates a lot based on the dungeon, how the tank is able to pull, and whether you have high-dps ST folks who can carry us through bosses

[rose ibex]

Been feeling really inadequate seeing as we're s tier now and all haha

Gives me sad brain

[dire hinge]

crit and biz out here slingshotting us into S tier single handedly

[rose ibex]

Bah. I saw biz with like 300k

Wtf

Maybe i need to chug a pharmacy of light's potential or something. Maybe need better trinkets. Maybe just gotta git gud

[dire hinge]

haha, a lot of it is how the tank can pull and how much the group is able to stay on top of CCs

[rose ibex]

I have a bad habit of reversing out of bad circles

Definitely losing uptime on that when I could be moving sideways or forward

[dire hinge]

wanna know the most cursed way to fix that

[rose ibex]

Switch to paladin and bubble

[thick kelp]

DSTance!

[empty sluice]

add gucci there

[rose ibex]

Ill never paladin unless its to heal

[novel jackal]

back pedaling and then charging into the same bad circle

[strong pine]

Thabks ❤️ been playing fury mostly but arms is fun in M+ higher keys 😅
Big number go brrrr

[rose ibex]

And they are a lot less zug zug now :(

[dire hinge]

I was gonna say unbind the S key. You'll die a lot early on, but you pretty rapidly stop using it and start angle-running + mouse instead

[rose ibex]

It would definitely stop me turning my stupid sound effects off

[dire hinge]

not a permanent thing, you can re-add it later, but i did it when learning tanking and boy howdy do it work good

[dire hinge]

god, real

[rose ibex]

That is an insane suggestion. I doubt my friends would tolerate such shenanigans

[dire hinge]

it's not a good take, nor one i'd widely recommend

but it's rapidly effective

[rose ibex]

I got deservedly ripped into for having taunt on my bar and accidentally hitting it

[dire hinge]

there's a few taunt reflects im sure we can leverage this season. I haven't looked into it much, but there's always one somewhere

[rose ibex]

I was keeping it there so I could maybe do something sweet like spell reflect something badass

[dire hinge]

YEAH exactly

[rose ibex]

Pyroblast from the pyromancers comes to mind

In magisters terrace

[novel jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-flying-the-simpsons-watermelon-gif-9391326

[rose ibex]

My group would never let it happen tho. We usually run with a pally tank and a rogue

Nobody ever gets to cast

[novel jackal]

Nothing so satisfying as trying to take the bullet only to have that bullet interrupted and you taking a smack to the face

[thick kelp]

https://maxroll.gg/wow/resources/spell-reflect-guide

by mr Wolfdisco

Very nice layout too :)

[dire hinge]

wait we can just reflect deadly winds in AA? 👀

[wispy kettle]

I do it just to hear the loud reflect sound if I'm tanking the aoe wind knockback but it doesn't do damage or remove the wind, just lets you walk through it

love that sound

[novel jackal]

I literally said that outloud as you posted

[dire hinge]

oh wait it's the tiny tornadoes right? not the big one

[thick kelp]

yeah thats the tiny one

[wispy kettle]

yeah the tiny tornados

[dire hinge]

ah okay i thought it was the big one and i was like WHAAT

still good to know!

[outer lion]

spell reflecting the big interuptable death blast from krik in PoS

[dire hinge]

all these little targeted ones throughout. Miss the SR weakaura 🫗

[rose ibex]

Seems like some stuff for tanks but really not much that is helpful

The algathor thing preventing a stack is actually pretty decent

[brittle nacelle]

playing this spec, i just feel like im pressing shit for no reason 🫡

[smoky kayak]

maybe you're just pressing the wrong things

[rose ibex]

A lot of buttons buff other buttons and or save you rage

[brittle nacelle]

yeah thats where I'd say its mostly goiong wrong for me

[sharp goblet]

I recently found out you can immune the Chains of Subjegation on seat trash with bladestorm, feelsgood

[upper sparrow]

Berserk rage talent gets rid of it too

[sharp goblet]

ye any freedom effects, we just didn't know and took it every time

[wooden lava]

is there a world where we play arms on crown

rn it feels like I do nothing regardless of spec or hero talent

the adds evaporate instantly so it's pointles to get dmg on em

[nova marsh]

Youre there for p3

[smoky kayak]

on N/H you absolutely can - P1 adds are just pad; you might be able to get a good parse out of blasting them, but chances are other classes are gonna kill them before you can get any serious cleave in

[wooden lava]

nah i meant on mythic

just got past vanguard and hit crown for liek an hour

feels like my dmg is worthless no matter what

[smoky kayak]

Mythic is kind of weird, Fury is a little better in P1 and Arms is a lil better in P3 since you get some (limited) 2t cleave

really it's just not a very good fight for Warriors in generally though

[nova marsh]

I dont think crown is a good fight for melee jn general

But then again thats 90% of the tier

[tidal igloo]

is this still right for m+ slayer build? but bladestorm instead of ravager?

and no demolish? seems like it would be changed bc no demolish

[leaden coral]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qnrjYshUXr8QttK9xuaw2E
V
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9UUq6mYin38K3Fhrup5WwN

In trying to understand how is possible this thing and how can i resolve it.
I’m the second sim, while the first with the same gear of lower than mine do 3 k dps more than me, what I’m doing wrong?
Ty for the patience

[lime solar]

one is a weekly sim the other latest. idk if there have been any changes made in between

[brave silo]

You would bladestorm after CS

[tidal igloo]

and still use the 4 cleaves straight

?

[brave silo]

Yep

[tidal igloo]

tyvm

[brave silo]

If you were to go strictly by the guide you would CS > Cleave x4 > any SD procs > BS

But I prefer CS > BS > The rest of the shit

And rend before anything

[tidal igloo]

sounds good, ty for the help

[leaden coral]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uqSTGhvGJhvfRn5AXHtakR

This is latest from me

[tidal igloo]

also, i main fury and am trying to swap for higher keys, does 28% crit with flask make damage lower than it should be? or is that decent? if not, what to aim for

[rare burrow]

Is it better to spam keys of abilities or just chilly click them ? when nervous i insanely spam abilities even during GCD

[brave silo]

Also CS > BS means your SD procs will have value because BS is now on cooldown

[tidal igloo]

right that makes sense

[brave silo]

If your spell queue window is a relaxed amount, you wouldn’t have to spam too much and still maintain zero gaps

[rare burrow]

what is spell queue window?

also is spamming bad for ur health or fingers or smth like that?

[untold pewter]

You'll spam, just don't overdo it as not to use the same spell twice without intending to, especially during Lust

Yes, it's bad for your fingers if you don't properly stretch and follow good practices for using a PC for too long

[rare burrow]

ok but we have choice to set precast up to 400ms wouldnt this be better?

[untold pewter]

More like bad for your wrist and nerves but you get the point

[tidal igloo]

how u set that?

[untold pewter]

There's a console command

[brave silo]

There’s a good write up. I’ll find it

[rare burrow]

ye command but i dont remember exactly which one

[brave silo]

https://maxroll.gg/wow/resources/spell-queue-window

[untold pewter]

You might miss shit with such a long spell window

I'm a fighting game fan so I'm used to the "double tap" motion

[tidal igloo]

ty

[lime solar]

you dont miss stuff

[untold pewter]

2-3 taps and move to next ability

[lime solar]

you can override the queued spell

[untold pewter]

Works like a charm

[leaden coral]

How much spell q Windows ms?

[untold pewter]

That's missing stuff

[lime solar]

how is that missing stuff

you can press the correct spell until the last ms of the window

[untold pewter]

You're making a mistake

Missing which spell comes out

[lime solar]

what

[untold pewter]

It can happen at very high haste

[leaden coral]

Interesting and how can fix that ?

[untold pewter]

Fury on lust is a great example

Shorter the queue window slightly

[leaden coral]

Like how much ?

[untold pewter]

Also your ms is relevant here

[lime solar]

anything under 300 is int

[untold pewter]

If you play at like 100ms or so it will affect it

[rare burrow]

"The minimum setting you should use is  200 ms + your ping but I advise you to just leave it on 400 ms."

is this true?

[lime solar]

yes

[leaden coral]

Yes I read that too

[untold pewter]

I use 280, works perfectly for my ms and all

[lime solar]

99% of people should leave it at 400

[rare burrow]

Archimindros said that 150ms is better

[leaden coral]

How much ms?

[rare kite]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-woah-wait-what-shocked-what-did-you-say-gif-16673454

[untold pewter]

80

I play on NA from EU

[leaden coral]

U play at 80 ms

[untold pewter]

So adjusted to that

[leaden coral]

Goat

[rare burrow]

@smoky kayak this guy said it hes the most professional warrior player nowadays

he said 150 or 250 max

[untold pewter]

Not with the random pings

[rare kite]

no, he said minimum 150

[lime solar]

having a lower sqw with higher ping makes it even less sense

[leaden coral]

So for me that I play at 40 I’m gonna set it at 250 I Guess

[rare burrow]

ye but maxroll.com says 200ms+ your ping minimum

[smoky kayak]

that's not actually true

[untold pewter]

And yet, works like a charm

Spell window isn't a science mate, figure out what works for your setup and your skill I guess

[lime solar]

we tested it a lot

[rare kite]

ehh i've played 150 for the longest time now. it's nice

[lime solar]

in the mage discord

[untold pewter]

Bro I've "tested it" for nearly 20 years lmfao

[leaden coral]

I’m gonna trust you

[smoky kayak]

lower tolerance always feels better, but that doesn't mean it is better

you need some amount of tolerance, it doesn't matter how low your ping is

and this is measured in miliseconds, which are practically imperceptible - you're not noticing the difference between 100 and 150, much less the difference between 150 and 160

[untold pewter]

Imo, just cover 2 points:

• You don't want to repeatedly cast the same spell by mashing
• You don't want nothing to happen once a spell ends (i.e. bladestorm)

Always test with lust

For the mashing part

[lime solar]

I think its clearly better to cast something - even if its the same spell - than having gaps.

the feel part i get yes

switching from 150 to 400 feels laggy

[leaden coral]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qnrjYshUXr8QttK9xuaw2E
V
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9UUq6mYin38K3Fhrup5WwN

In trying to understand how is possible this thing and how can i resolve it.
I’m the second sim, while the first with the same gear of lower than mine do 3 k dps more than me, can u help my ty.

[untold pewter]

Before setting this up correctly for my environment I used to have fury spam whirlwind during lust and it was really upsetting

Like I'd just try to reapply WW and would cast it twice during lust by just double tapping the keys

[smoky kayak]

you have AoE talents

his talents are also slightly off, but not by as much

you're also simming weekly, which you should not do

[leaden coral]

Aoe ?? This is slayer bro

[lime solar]

that sounds really more like youre pressing the buttons too late in the gcd

[leaden coral]

Taked from wlogz

[smoky kayak]

bro

[untold pewter]

And yet changing the spell queue window fixed it

Also no, I don't leave gaps on my key pressing

[rare burrow]

so it is a skill issue if u double cast whirlwind

[leaden coral]

Yes but i changed also this and this is the same

[smoky kayak]

you're running a single target sim with two talents that aren't single target, of course your results are going to be lower

[untold pewter]

It is a skill issue if you do it AFTER already having the ideal spell queue for your environment, sure

[leaden coral]

Yes ofc but 3k dps for onetalent, i will provide to you with right talent

[rare kite]

well 2 talents

[smoky kayak]

going back to this convo, while this advice isn't wrong, it's not necessarily right either - there is a key issue being overlooked

[smoky kayak]

and this is it - mages are generally a lot less beholden to the GCD than melee specs, which is why they're more often recommended to stick with a higher tolerance

[lime solar]

i dont see the difference between a gcd and a cast

[smoky kayak]

it's more or less the same reason that the 1 button rotation penalty isn't as punishing to casters as it is melee

[rare kite]

mages also has that weird dipping thing where sqw actually matters. like the fireblast and double pyro or whatever. iirc arcane has something similar or had

[smoky kayak]

because casts that are longer than the GCD aren't beholden to it

[lime solar]

we still dont want gaps

both gcd specs and casters

[smoky kayak]

and you can naturally queue spells during spell casts, it's a much longer window to play around

nobody said you wanted gaps in the first place

[untold pewter]

Yeah but you have a bigger window by default if your cast is bigger than the gcd

Nobody wants gaps

[smoky kayak]

you don't need a very large window to not get gaps though

unless your ping is astronomical

I generally play with around 20 ms, I'm not going to have gaps whether my tolerance is set to 150, 300, or 400

[leaden coral]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gWJV9sDtzvtRjQuEj9XfK6
same talent of the guy

[smoky kayak]

the reason you don't go below 150 (or 200, whatever you consider a fair minimum to be) is because there are other factors to consider other than average latency though - spikes, input delay, and physical actuation time being the big ones

[limber valve]

wait so I’m not supposed to be waiting for autos between my abilities

[leaden coral]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qnrjYshUXr8QttK9xuaw2E
this is him

[smoky kayak]

but 400 is not universally better either

[lime solar]

the "advantage" you gain by lowering your spell queue though does not beat out the possible disadvantages I believe. Sure, you can play perfectly at 150 as well but the risk of doing something wrong is way higher

[smoky kayak]

lower is generally more reactive, so there's typically less risk of doing something "wrong" - the risk is increasing the potential to introduce gaps into your rotation if you're not able to keep up with it (either physically or digitally)

the risk of doing something "wrong" typically increases with higher tolerance because playing half a second ahead on spammy instant-based specializations can be very disorienting in a way that doesn't affect hard casters nearly as much

[lime solar]

But the risk of doing wrong is so minimal

since you can override the queued spell

[untold pewter]

I.e. 130% haste fury warrior during lust with reck potion

[smoky kayak]

to a point, that override doesn't actually extend the entire way until the GCD fires

[lime solar]

so the higher the window you at least make sure you have something casted

[leaden coral]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gWJV9sDtzvtRjQuEj9XfK6
same talent of the guy
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qnrjYshUXr8QttK9xuaw2E
this is him

[lime solar]

sure your ping is a factor there

but up until that point it is on you to press the correct spell

[limber valve]

you’re just spamming now

[rare kite]

he's got better trinkets than you and has the voidgloves. that prob makes up for it

[smoky kayak]

its always on you to press the correct spell, that's generally just knowing the rotation

[lime solar]

yeah obv, but it is not the SQWs fault

if you cast the wrong spell

[smoky kayak]

again, the key difference is that its generally harder to play half a second ahead on spammy instant based classes

most people find it much more disorienting to press a button and it not go off for almost half a second - by which time they're already pressing the next button in their rotation

[lime solar]

but thats the thing you dont have to play half a second ahead, i dont get that point.

[rare kite]

this is why i hate higher windows. i do not want to override the spell

[smoky kayak]

e.g. if you're a spammy player, the kinda guy who presses BT BT BT BT BT until it goes off and then RB RB RB RB RB in anticipation of the GCD

[untold pewter]

Exactly

[smoky kayak]

having a high lag tolerance has a very high likelihood of munching inputs

[untold pewter]

I want it to feel responsive
Which is why 400ms is too much and why I use 280

[smoky kayak]

hard casters don't generally play that way though, which is why responsiveness is not nearly as big of an issue

[lime solar]

if i understand you correctly youre saying the following:

[vapid pine]

If they're not pressing buttons in sync with the GCD they're not going to play well with any settings though

Really don't understand any of these arguments

[smoky kayak]

I don't know what you mean by "in sync with the GCD" - the entire point of CLT is to play ahead of the GCD

[lime solar]

You spam BT, it goes off, you keep spamming BT until the next SQW starts in gcd2 and then munch the RB cast youre supposed to be doing

but that would mean you spam BT for at least 0.6 seconds after gcd2 has started

and not having pressed RB

Im not saying it is soo easy to do

but that sounds on the player after all

[smoky kayak]

more like you spam BT until it goes off, you start spamming RB, then swap to Rampage and end up munching the input because the extended delay hasn't allowed RB to go off yet

again, I'm not saying this is correct, only that it is an extremely common occurance on high haste and spammy instant based classes, which isn't something that hard casters experience nearly as often

[vapid pine]

It really isn't, the entire point is to have the ability to press at any point within the last 400ms of the GCD. Not deliberately too early, then start spamming something else.

[smoky kayak]

yes it is, that's literally and exactly what custom lag tolerance does

it allows you to play ahead of the GCD, you press a button and it will queue in anticipation of the server recognizing the GCD becoming available

[untold pewter]

Do you have haste as your highest stat? What's your latency?
Try it right now
Fury warrior with reck potion and drums on a dummy

[smoky kayak]

in order to minimize the time it takes for your computer and the server to communicate (aka latency or lag)

[lime solar]

i know how it is with high haste

i have played enough warrior in the past

Still, i think the benefit of always casting outweighs the negative feeling or the wrong spell youre doing

[untold pewter]

Yeah, lower feels more responsive
I do not want time to override
I want the button I press to be the next cast because it's the correct button without the risk of a window so big shit gets wonky at high haste

For me, that's just that

[smoky kayak]

again, my point is that it's an issue that's much more keenly experienced by melee than hard casters, which is why you'll find people who mostly play casters recommend higher settings, because reactivity isn't as big of an issue due to the already greater natural gaps in their rotation caused by spell cast times

[lime solar]

Casters can also more easily check for gaps though than gcd specs

[vapid pine]

Yes but why in the world would you start spamming another button when a spell has been queued and not when a spell has been cast. You don't get any feedback from the spell being queued, it doesn't change your feedback at all

[lime solar]

As a mage i can easily check for gaps

as a warrior i would have to estimate the gcd in logs

[smoky kayak]

and to be clear, a higher tolerance is better... but only to the point that it does not disrupt your gameplay. The key is to find and use the highest setting that doesn't feel non-reactive, not to use the minimum setting at all times (that's why it's called a minimum, not a recommendation)

[vapid pine]

There used to be a weakaura

[hoary pier]

Hey guys, do we have a text for prio dps rotation in arm ? thanks

[smoky kayak]

#dps-faq

[lime solar]

well, as so often with guides on the internet, people take that the minimum as gospel

[smoky kayak]

that's their problem

learning to read is definitely a skill issue

[lime solar]

we can agree on that yeah

[kind stag]

Wow players cant read cmon

We need a WA for that

[hoary pier]

@smoky kayak thanks

[smoky kayak]

Look I've been writing guides for the better part of twenty years now - I learned long ago that you cannot help everyone, only those who are willing to help themselves

[kind stag]

Real

[smoky kayak]

it doesn't matter how much you explain or caveat; often times, the longer your explanation the more likely people are to gloss over it

[lime solar]

yeah i get that.

For me it would really be interesting to see how instant gcd specs look like in terms of gaps

its like the #1 problem i see in logs for mages

most of the time it isnt the sqw being too small

but people are just brain lagging and you can see that clearly

[smoky kayak]

which is why I (try to) focus on simple answers that are easily digestible and will do the most good for the most people

• those who care to learn more will find a way to learn more, whether it's reading deeper into the explanatory sections of the guide, or coming to a community like this one and asking questions

[untold pewter]

Because there's more at play than just pressing the right button

Haste changes the GCD (and it can get VERY wonky at 100%+ haste windows)

Next up is your latency, which you're trying to compensate for

"Why in the world would you start spamming another button" isn't usually the issue, the issue is you are still spamming the same button because shit is going too fast and then you start overcompensating by overriding the queue and basically going off rails

The whole point of configuring clt is to find the ideal setting for your environment

It exists and is made available for this reason. It's not a "skill issue" until you have a tested setting that works for you

[sharp goblet]

but like, low ping will significantly reduce cases of "wrong cast went through" regardless of spell queue window, right?

[smoky kayak]

I mean low ping is definitely better than higher ping, though not always to a tangible point

[lime solar]

im 100% it is a skill issue at the bottom whether you have 280 sqw or 400

if it feels better for you cool

[sharp goblet]

i keep it on the default 400ms and whenever it happens I feel like it's my fault - not the settings (I should have pressed ability Y earlier to have it go off)

[lime solar]

but it is certainly doable with 400 as well

[untold pewter]

What ms do you play at?

[lime solar]

30 or smth idk

[untold pewter]

Yeah I do 80-120

We do not have the same environment

[lime solar]

yeah and to me it still doesnt make sense that yours should be lower than mine

[untold pewter]

I don't really need it to make sense for you
I'm just saying it fixed the issue for me

As it should

[smoky kayak]

I can say with full confidence though that it is extremely common for players to come here asking why their gameplay feels sluggish, like they're pressing abilities which just aren't going off, like they're lagging but nothing other than than their action bar seems to be slowed down

and their gameplay instantly improves once they lower their tolerance - not because lower is explicitly better, but because it's significantly easier for players not to try to think so far ahead (e.g. more reactive)

[untold pewter]

Because that's what it's intended for

A setting meant for it
Doing what it should
I don't really know how it doesn't make sense but whelp

[vapid pine]

Gameplay improves while gaps in GCD increase and DPS decrease

[smoky kayak]

not necessarily

400 is excessive for most high speed connections in the modern age

[untold pewter]

Gaps only increase if you're not pressing buttons

[smoky kayak]

gaps only increase if your ping or input is delayed beyond the tolerance

[vapid pine]

If you're pressing the wrong button there's no setting in the world which will fix your gameplay.
The whole point of configuring clt is to maximize DPS. Once anyone shows literally any data that there's better feedback with lower SQW I will immediately change my tune, but literally all testing ever done shows more responsiveness and a longer window to correctly, reactively, press the correct keybind

[untold pewter]

Dude it is not to maximize dps it's to improve responsiveness

Which will then impact your dps because now things feel right

For your setup

Dps is a consequence but not the goal

[smoky kayak]

and btw, 400 didn't become the default until Legion, and it was made the default because blizz was trying to cater to the lowest common denominator at a time in which a surprising number of players still had low-speed connections

[vapid pine]

mb feelycrafting too strong apparently

[untold pewter]

Like archi just said
Ever so often someone says their gameplay is sluggish and adjusting it solves that

[smoky kayak]

not because it's universally better for everyone - it's not

[lime solar]

it still sounds to me that this is a feeling argument

logically it doesnt make sense to me

[untold pewter]

Respnsiveness IS a feeling argument what the heck lmao

[smoky kayak]

it is, we established that from the onset

[vapid pine]

Yes, and input is often the problem. People just don't press buttons as consistently and often as they think they do

[untold pewter]

How responsive something feels is entirely personal

We are not all equal

[lime solar]

so do you agree that disregarding the feel part a higher window would be better or not?

[smoky kayak]

correct, that's why I said that no matter how low your ping is, you need an absolute minimum amount of tolerance to account for not only lag but also physical factors

[untold pewter]

As long as your setup isn't hindering your ability to perform, great

No matter which settings you use

[smoky kayak]

but 400 is absolutely not it - nobody is taking 0.4s to press down on their keyboard

[brazen laurel]

I wrote up some priority list mostly based on the raidbots html apl section, is it ok i post to see if i got it right. Wanna send to a guildie @smoky kayak

[smoky kayak]

I would recommend just using one of the guides in the #dps-faq, that's what they're there for

[untold pewter]

Disregarding the only thing that actually matters in this argument? Now I think you just want to win the argument instead of trying to actually understand what it's for

[thick kelp]

What do you mean mostly

susg

[lime solar]

huh

The technical, measuarble part of the equation here certainly matters as well lol

[vapid pine]

Some people are absolutely averaging under 3 presses a second mid combat, especially keyboard binders during movement

[untold pewter]

Measurable by who?

[lime solar]

in the logs?

[untold pewter]

Exactly so

After changing

[lime solar]

?

[untold pewter]

I started doing better logs

Because less inputs

[lime solar]

yeah no idk i dont think youre getting my point

[untold pewter]

Were munched

[smoky kayak]

that's indicative of an entirely different problem than lag tolerance - mainly just ineffective keybinding and control schemes

[vapid pine]

But that's half the point of spellqueuewindow to fix though! Give leeway for people to press buttons on GCD

[untold pewter]

Like I can do 99 logs (as if spell window is the only factor lol) AND the game feels actually responsive

With higher window, spells were getting munched

[smoky kayak]

spoiler: default 1-0 is actually a horrible layout for rotational spells

[smoky kayak]

partially, but not entirely, because if you're that low, you're already falling beneath the floor anyway

[lime solar]

im not talking about the parse number. Im talking about the actual, visible gaps between casts.

[smoky kayak]

you might as well just transition to the 1-button

[untold pewter]

Dude gaps only exist if people are not touching their keys

That's not a spell window issue

[lime solar]

no

[thick kelp]

True I play with all my rotational spells on my mouse so I can dig my nose during opener

[sharp goblet]

1 is legit the worst key to press, always makes my finger hurt if I have the most spammed spell there (I have MS on 1 )

[lime solar]

it certainly is a sqw thing

[smoky kayak]

this also goes back to the point about how you can't really help everyone - the players coming in asking about lag tolerance are not the same ones who are having trouble pressing 2 buttons every second

[lime solar]

just like archi can say he saw improvment when people lowered it i can tell you the exact opposite

[smoky kayak]

like yall are really tangentiallizing the hell out of this conversation lol

[lime solar]

its been a hot topic for a while

[thorn field]

your hand must be built weirdly for 1 to feel weird

[smoky kayak]

well first of all, nobody is increasing it unless they lowered it in the first place

because the default is the ceiling

[lime solar]

there were certain weakauras in the past

that changed it

[vapid pine]

I think you're just heavily out of touch with the data tbh. Doing a random click test online, just pressing a single button with a finger, I get like 7 clicks a seconds. That's 1 click every 142 ms. Assuming I'm not computerly consistent or I have to do any movement at all I'll get gaps for no reason at 150 sqw.

[lime solar]

and there are several addons that do it dynamically

[magic canopy]

spellquewindow is basically personal pref also

[thick kelp]

yall have slow ass fingers

smh

age nerf

[untold pewter]

Imagine thinking this equates to your connection to blizzard servers in any way

[astral yarrow]

if you arent smashing your button like 10 times pr gcd, you are losing dps

[magic canopy]

walhe was born in the cookie clicker. raised by it

[untold pewter]

Even the latency you see in-game isn't entirely accurate

[smoky kayak]

First of all, I never said to use 150, so it really feels like you're just trying to be argumentative at this point
second of all, if you can't click faster than 142ms, you sound slow lol

[sharp goblet]

ah yeah, very slight trigger finger in my ringfinger (which I fully extend to press 1, usually rests between q and a, fully extend and contract it thousands of times starts to hurt a bit hahah)

[vapid pine]

Imagine not understanding this is exactly what sqw helps with

[magic canopy]

i wouldnt reccoment anything below 250 at most

[untold pewter]

You seem not to, indeed

[magic canopy]

you lose globals

[untold pewter]

I agree with madox

[astral yarrow]

i've had it at 140 since giga haste in nyalotha

[untold pewter]

I'd not go below 250

[astral yarrow]

felt like i couldnt get to react to OP procs above it

[vapid pine]

"You sound slow" Ah ok, so you just don't have any baseline knowledge of the topic then. gl

[smoky kayak]

ok buddy, whatever you say

[untold pewter]

Kek

Classic

[magic canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-ok-gif-2466171479878054943

[untold pewter]

He can't be wrong so we clearly don't know what we're talking about

[smoky kayak]

Love when people get involved with a conversation just to make up random arguments that nobody presented and their arguments hinge on hypotheticals that don't exist

[astral yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-too-much-gif-3073131703219450640

[vapid pine]

Then click a button and hit it 11 times per second or whatever

[vapid pine]

I'm open to any arguments that aren't jsut vibes

[grave mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/bosnov-67-bosnov-67-67-meme-gif-16727368109953357722

[vapid pine]

But nobody is saying anything other than "it feels better 4Head"

[magic canopy]

well the actual issue with really high spell que window is you quite literally lose fractions of a global every cast if its too high

so if you do that you just lose damage

[astral yarrow]

if 400 is what makes people feel like they can react, by all means

[vapid pine]

Why do you think that?

[untold pewter]

Right, responsiveness is a mathematically measurable metric because we're all robots playing on the exact same environment

There can be no "vibes", only math

[magic canopy]

becuase its how the game works?

[vapid pine]

You think queueing spells makes you lose more partial globals?

[untold pewter]

It makes wrong globals happen more often because inputs get munched (for my environment)

At high haste

[magic canopy]

so how it works is if you hit your button with 150 spell que window. and you have .2 seconds left on your GCD to your next cast. it wont que your spell

so if you hit your button too early. miss the window then hit it

[sharp goblet]

hmm, I'm confused now (and I just learned about this recently), why would a big window make you miss globals? it's going to catch any earlier input and transmit it at the end of the queue window, you will not lose globals, but maybe misinputs?

oh really high as in really low

lol

nvm

[magic canopy]

you lose that time between globals

[vapid pine]

Yeah so if you have really low sqw you lose partial globals

[magic canopy]

yeah

[untold pewter]

Yeah so nobody should have really low

[magic canopy]

like 150 is hella low

[vapid pine]

That we agree on

[untold pewter]

As we've been saying

Since the beginning

[magic canopy]

you want like aound 300ish

[vapid pine]

But my argument is that there's never an argument to lower it lower than standard, other people are talking about munching globals without any logic as to why that would happen

[astral yarrow]

am i the hipster

huh

[untold pewter]

But also, too high CAN make the game feel less responsive (yes, feel, responsiveness is an opinion)

[smoky kayak]

almost like that's exactly what I said...

[magic canopy]

depends on your GCD. so for fury warrior inside of Lust

[untold pewter]

The logic is it DOES munch globals

[smoky kayak]

it's amazing that you can say "150+ms is the absolute minimum" and people will take it as "you said 150"

[magic canopy]

its possible you que 2 actions back to back that you dont want

[untold pewter]

Wtf can we say other than what happens?

[astral yarrow]

reck potion, lust and haste as highest stat

https://tenor.com/view/fast-running-gif-27100967

[magic canopy]

so you play an inoptimal rotation becuase of the queing but spell que window is more preferance

[vapid pine]

But there's nothing about queueing that makes you unable to abort and queue another spell though

[lime solar]

how would that be possible with a min gcd of 0.76

75*

[magic canopy]

Thats literally how it works

[smoky kayak]

there is actually, the queue does lock in before the spell actually fires

[magic canopy]

unless you have a /cancelaction or w/e in every single spell to clear the spell que

it will eat your imput

[vapid pine]

Yes but that lock in is longer with lower sqw

[smoky kayak]

you cannot overwrite the queue up to the last milisecond

[vapid pine]

Nope, false

[smoky kayak]

no it isn't

[untold pewter]

I've been saying them to test that but they prefer to be argumentative!

[smoky kayak]

I mean as a percentage it is, but that's not relevant

[vapid pine]

All tests ever run has it longer with lower sqw

Ah fuck

[magic canopy]

source?

[vapid pine]

typo mb

[untold pewter]

Tests by who?

[magic canopy]

if you got info ill look at it

[astral yarrow]

thats the most trump argument ever damn

[grave mulch]

test?

[untold pewter]

Let's ignore what people playing the game say and rely on the data of "tests"

Show us the tests then

[vapid pine]

Wait wasn't it even you who ran it @lime solar ?

[lime solar]

nope

it was Oi or Blink

[untold pewter]

[vapid pine]

Fuck, then I actually have to find it again brb

[lime solar]

i think that was discussed in RLE

[vapid pine]

Ah yeah blink

[grave mulch]

This is basically hear says bullshit

[smoky kayak]

it's wild how many partial and third-party arguments are being presented here

[untold pewter]

Mages am I right

[magic canopy]

its possible he may have just been mislead which is fine

[lime solar]

brother i am telling you one more time i know what you mean i have played like that before

[magic canopy]

but im curious of where the info came from

[astral yarrow]

conviction wasnt lacking though

[smoky kayak]

probably the same place that came from them insisting I somehow said everyone should play at 150 🙄

[leaden spoke]

whats the deal with the guides saying ´colossus is best for m+ but all the high keys are Slayer? is this only true for high keys or is my brain just too small and i dont understand something

[astral yarrow]

you are probably the reason im at 140

[magic canopy]

new info sprouts up alll the time my man

[rare kite]

i mean clearly sqw isn't a very big deal then no? there are people who get top ranks every season at 150 like crit and people at 400 like wallife

[untold pewter]

And that you have no baseline knowledge of the topic

[magic canopy]

can always change

[lime solar]

this.

[magic canopy]

slayer does lack the defensive value of colossus however so it might just die at a key level collo wont

[lime solar]

im willing to learn

[sharp goblet]

colo = more overall, slayer = more ST generally, slayer also has less positional aoe reqs, but they are pretty close

[smoky kayak]

Slayer got big buffs lately, leading players to try new things - statistically, Colossus still has the majority of high key completions, even if some top pushers have started playing Slayer now

to be perfectly frank though, you should never look at what top pushers are doing unless you yourself are trying to setup to push top keys - what someone in a +19 key is doing has very little relevance to what you're doing in a +10-12

[vapid pine]

No baseline knowledge of how fast people press their buttons. Which still seems to be true.

[untold pewter]

Sure bud, show us the tests

[leaden spoke]

thats why i asked and didnt just go slayer

[smoky kayak]

no baseline knowledge in what random people say online and claim as fact you mean?

[hasty pumice]

Also differentiating between strats. Even in +17/18 in a pug you won't be doing the same stuff that e.g. Bizentein does in physical comp

Col can backfire hard in pugs imo due to the super bad ST

[smoky kayak]

first of all, most people I know don't click their keybinds... they use keybinds
second, nobody ever in this entire conversation recommended setting their tolerance to 150, yet you seem stuck on that point

third of all

[untold pewter]

A literal machine, surely

[vapid pine]

I mentioned 150 as a single example, idk why you're stuck on that one

[grave mulch]

"Test"

[untold pewter]

Rhoon just show us the tests

[vapid pine]

Real, scrolling

[sharp goblet]

huh I never realized slayer has pretty much 0 defensive lines in the entire hero tree

[smoky kayak]

I'm sorry, what?

[magic canopy]

yup healing from death drive isnt really anything

[smoky kayak]

this was the entire crux of your argument

[magic canopy]

if it shielded you from the damage like old condemn then maybe

[smoky kayak]

using 150 as an example that nobody cited

[magic canopy]

but healing doesnt do much

[hasty pumice]

Didn't critcake sim that on slayer the stance mastery talent is pmuch the same

[sharp goblet]

overwhelmed should give dr %

hahaha

[vapid pine]

Yeah that's a single example

[smoky kayak]

the issue with taking stance mastery is you have to give up Javalineer

[hasty pumice]

With stance mastery I'm pretty confident you won't die before others would so I'd argue the difference in tonkiness between col and slayer is very minor

[magic canopy]

issue with stance mastery is you lose dam

[smoky kayak]

then why are you using that "single (hyperbolic) example" as the crux of your argument

[maiden apex]

Anyone actually raids semi- seriously as arms ? Or do one have to switch between arms/fury?

[magic canopy]

both are decent in raid rn

arms shines at a couple fights

but fury is solid at them all

[rare kite]

if sqw cost you a ton of missed globals then wouldn't that mean players couldn't consistently get top ranks? plenty of top warriors at 150 and plenty at 400

i meant to reply to rhoon but whatever

[untold pewter]

You can, we have lots of folks that do

[smoky kayak]

you outright called me "out of touch with the data" when your given "data" is based on 150,
are you seriously trying to walk that back now?

[maiden apex]

Ye but also feel the ST is horrible even aftrr slayer buff. But might also be a l2p issue for me.

[maiden apex]

Nice. Im excited I really love arms

[crisp mesa]

Btw anyone else has the issue with bloodlust and suddden death proccing twice using them and only getting 1 stack for mortal strike damage?

[smoky kayak]

I don't think there are plenty at 150, I don't think anyone should be playing at 150 - I don't know why everyone is suddenly getting stuck on that number, but there's a whole lot in between 150 - 400 (roundabouts 250 worth)

[lime solar]

quick maths

[untold pewter]

St is decent but in reality nighter warrior specs are shining at the top of ST right now

[magic canopy]

even hopeful says the lowest he will go is like 300

[rare kite]

i know crit plays at 150 for example

[magic canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/the-horse-of-suspicion-and-distrust-gif-12657911522319693236

[untold pewter]

Hearsay

[rare kite]

any bets?

[smoky kayak]

to be perfectly frank, some of yall are also over estimating the impact of playing slightly slower than the GCD - it absolutely adds up over time, but assuming you're pressing every 165ms instead of every 150ms isn't actually going to hurt your performance all that much in the long run

[untold pewter]

I bet he does

[smoky kayak]

I feel like I shouldn't have to disclaim that that statement is not to say you should play with a setting that low
however, given the course of this conversation, it seems like I need to

[maiden apex]

True. I also think I have to get used to that our damage also rises in execute phase. Im used to just pump right out of the gate

[magic canopy]

99% of the time its easier to look out outside factors when considering performance when the #1 factor is how god awful i am at the game somtimes

[untold pewter]

Yep

[lime solar]

oh yeah sure

[steep osprey]

Horsesay

[untold pewter]

Tl:dr if you FEEL the game is not responsive, adjust that setting until it FEELS right and then make sure there are no gaps

[smoky kayak]

most rotational issues are actually about timing much more than latency

[steep osprey]

Don't the abilities in this game have a queue?

[smoky kayak]

welcome to the conversation

[daring heron]

i upped it to 220 like a year ago

[untold pewter]

Don't loop lmao

[rare kite]

ahh

[steep osprey]

I just came in here

[lime solar]

would be cool if this was easier to check in logs than it is rn

but it is what it is

[smoky kayak]

if anyone cares, my actual advice was also to keep it over 200 in most cases

[magic canopy]

this tier is just bad for parsing

[hasty pumice]

Based

[magic canopy]

go boss dam become enlightened

[smoky kayak]

not this 150 bullshit that rhoon idiot keeps going back to

[untold pewter]

Tbh I never cared about checking that on logs
Making sure it's responsive in-game and ensuring gcds are more accurate and nothing is getting munched and that it can also withstand super high haste is plenty for performance

[hasty pumice]

"just pad more" but everyone wants to pad

[smoky kayak]

the logs part isn't as important as people think

[untold pewter]

100%

[magic canopy]

ill ask if i can be a little pad stinker on our kills so i can get a funny name color in a boosting discord

otherwise me no care

[elder zealot]

150 is gonna be a new meme for this channel

gonna be our 6 7

[magic canopy]

youll pry 57 from my cold hands

[smoky kayak]

clearly you weren't here for the 20% haste days

[rare kite]

40/40/10/10

[smoky kayak]

na, it's 45/45/10/0 now

[elder zealot]

LOL I wasn't, was it regarding In For the Kill or something?

[smoky kayak]

0 vers reck pot gang let's go

[rare kite]

[elder zealot]

Actually true, if you have 0 vers, you remove the downside from potion of reck

🧠

[kind stag]

You take more damage

Which is fine, healer issue

[elder zealot]

Would you rec that over Light's Potential Archim?

[lime solar]

20% haste was the "thing" for an extra gcd in cs wasnt it?

[magic canopy]

if you have 0 vers does it eat nothing or does it eat the next lowest

also does it actually effect vantus vers

becuase i dunno

[elder zealot]

I think a guildie tried it and said you don't go into negative vers

so it doesn't eat the second lowest, it still treats your 0 vers as your lowest secondary

[rare kite]

it eats my vers but technically i'm at 1%. big 53 vers from gloves

[steep osprey]

Wasn't it 30% in Legion?

[rare kite]

so only losing 53 stats from the reck potion instead of 232

[magic canopy]

as anti gen ai as i am. im always down to follow the simc robot

[smoky kayak]

na, stats can't go negative

[limpid apex]

Guys, sorry for crashing y'alls conversation, but can i ask a quick, maybe stupid rotational question?

[smoky kayak]

it does eat your vantus rune though, which is one of the reasons I swapped default pot to Light's Potential

[kind stag]

Woah didnt know that

[vapid pine]

The example was there just to put context for button presses, that most people likely won't be pressing enough for either 150 or 250 consistently if we add distractions such as movement, inconsistency, or mechanics. I assumed when I read your earlier statements that you hadn't checked how often most people pressed their keys, which still seems to be the case.

[untold pewter]

TESTS WHERE

[thick kelp]

Sure

[limpid apex]

Just wanted to know if we currently prioritize cleave over MS on 2 targets or not. Guide say so, but im not sure if its the case with SS up

[vapid pine]

Data from a 5h SQW test from Blinkladen:

[smoky kayak]

well first of all, your example doesn't prove that - there's a wide gulf between 150 and 250
secondly, your assumptions don't equate to an argument
thirdly, nobody ever brought up 150, so using it as the crux of your argument has no validity

[rare kite]

you do not. ms prio over cleave on 2t

[untold pewter]

And wtf does this mean?
How do you read this data?

[thick kelp]

on 2T Cleave only comes into play if you are playing with collateral and have 3 stacks of the buff

[vapid pine]

"PreEnd is the time before the cast ends that a new spell is pressed
To "override" the queued spell
So at 30ms before i finish casting frostbolt, i start spamming icelance
(Not manually, ahk does it)"

[magic canopy]

Fervor of battle no longer sends a slam at 2 targets. so ms always better til 3

[untold pewter]

What's "preEnd" asked too fast

[safe jay]

and outside CS or am I wrong?

[thick kelp]

on 2T you follow the 1T priority

whuh

what has cs got to do with anythin here

[safe jay]

extend of CS > Cleave? on 2 target?

[untold pewter]

At which ms is this being tested?

[limpid apex]

okok, ty every1

[thick kelp]

no you just always slam MS on cd

[safe jay]

maybe i misread something

[thick kelp]

in 2T

out of exe phase

[safe jay]

yeah

[rare kite]

he's prob thinking of tierset. ms extending cs but cleave at 2t does not

[vapid pine]

ms is the bottom 3, so 20, 30, 50 No wait I'm stupid

[safe jay]

walhe PoV on YT when? btw?

[rare kite]

and whether that has any impact in prio

[untold pewter]

Well great it doesn't go up to my ms, it is what it is

[magic canopy]

wait

but this graph says that higher isbetter

and 100-200 is garbage

[lime solar]

i think he means ping

[smoky kayak]

worth pointing out that frostbolt's cast time is longer than the GCD, so the test isn't exactly equitable to melee

which was brought up you know like an hour ago

[untold pewter]

Yeah 100%

It should be a given that casters interact with spell queue differently

[magic canopy]

its like how destro locks lose less damage playing the one button rotation becuase of how high their cast times are

[thick kelp]

When I can get more than 15fps on boss fightd

[smoky kayak]

but also, nobody ever said lower was better for the purposes of completing casts

[safe jay]

F

[rare kite]

yea the general consensus is that higher is better. you also have people like me that like having it shorter, it might be worse but i like it

[lime solar]

sorry but why would it be different between a gcd and a cast?

[vapid pine]

"Goal of this test is to check up until what time before a spellcast is done you can change the queued spell
And it seems like the lower the sqw, the worse your ability to change the queued spell is"

It's not necessarily garbage, it just gives you more time to switch to a proper spell

[untold pewter]

Isn't that like

The most obvious thing anyway?

The take away that a lower window means less time to change the queued spell?

[smoky kayak]

less time

[vapid pine]

The ahk script was posted in RLE somewhere if you want to test yourself

[smoky kayak]

and yes

it's what we already established at the start of this convo

[thick kelp]

Making a bull out of a fly

[magic canopy]

well you would have to make that choice withing .2 seconds while also having less then 200 spw for that to even work

[lime solar]

how is that obvious huh?

[untold pewter]

How is it not?

lmfao

[lime solar]

you have a 200 SQW, you press a spell 20ms before the cast ends

[smoky kayak]

because several people mentioned it well before the inclusion of this "evidence" ?

[untold pewter]

Like, a smaller window gives you less leeway on changing the queued ability than a higher window

[lime solar]

why should this be different with a 400 sqw?

[kind stag]

Guys im done with gym and you guys are still talking about this

[magic canopy]

its funny so yeah

[lime solar]

its looking at the end of the cast

not when the SQW starts what

[sharp goblet]

i'm so confused as to what we're even arguing about, everyone is saying the same thing (go like 250)

[lime solar]

am i looking at this wrong

[smoky kayak]

I was gonna go to bed like two hours ago, but I do love a good argument about stupid shit

[lime solar]

^

beats work

idk if it beats sleep tho

[smoky kayak]

for real though, I am going to bed so I can get up in time for servers tomorrow

[kind stag]

Archie i think sleep is healthier

[untold pewter]

10am here so I got a full day but I think I've reached my limit of reading mage speech

[kind stag]

Gn

[vapid pine]

This isn't the comparison between 250 and 400 ms timing, this is 20-50 ms before the GCD is over.

[untold pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-turn-down-arcane-mage-gif-27420484

[smoky kayak]

don't be jerks and make me come back here

[lime solar]

right?

[untold pewter]

I'm just memeing I promise I won't escalate

[smoky kayak]

[lime solar]

thats how i understood it as well

[vapid pine]

Sorry if anything sounded like a personal attack btw, realize I was kinda hangry for no reason

[smoky kayak]

it was mostly just your jumping on the 150 thing (which kulamog also did, albeit in a less aggressive way)

[lime solar]

and what the hell happened in here btw, that outside server emotes arent allowed anymore

[smoky kayak]

but its fine

[smoky kayak]

I don't think they've ever been

[astral yarrow]

we must riot against the yellow men

[magic canopy]

you can be very malicious with outside gifs

easier in a community server to just remove them

esp one of this size

[lime solar]

color names power abuse i see...

but anyways

[smoky kayak]

I'm glad you understand
I hate having to explain myself

[kind stag]

Yellow and orange are not warrior colors cmon

[lime solar]

i think what rhoon posted above we are still understanding differently

[magic canopy]

i mean what rhoon is saying isnt technically wrong

[lime solar]

id like to understand why you say it is obvious

[magic canopy]

its just also not very feasable for 99% of the population

or less then that

[untold pewter]

Shhh before they make US yellow and change themselves to brown

[kind stag]

Argh

[lime solar]

i gotta go into paint it seems

[magic canopy]

if anything it just makes me want to talk about my hate for variable haste becuase i like to play in a rythem

and if i have variable haste that gets ruined

[thick kelp]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/965371616269848578/1154879728503771216/ezgif-2-d316db49e5.gif

[magic canopy]

scratchin

[rare kite]

remove berserker rage from weapons if you have them ahhaha

[magic canopy]

i use mastery

gn for me as well bye bye

[keen siren]

Everyone crafting their wep haste/mast so they can play fury off spec?

[untold pewter]

Kinda

We're not allergic to mastery

But yes, mostly that I'd say

[fresh spire]

Arms be like. Just don't give me vers and we're gud

[lime solar]

so what the diagramm above showed was that for some reason the queued cast is not the correct one for different lengths of SQW

[keen siren]

Why not verse

[lime solar]

thats how i understand the diagram

i dont know how that would be obvious with a lower SQW

[elder zealot]

I believe it's our worst secondary, maybe unless you're pushing high keys

[untold pewter]

Because it's the least valuable stat for damage for us

[rare kite]

robot says it is less damage

🤖

[untold pewter]

We follow what the clanker gods lay down before us

[keen siren]

I have a ring that’s crit mast but lower ilvl and I have another ring that’s higher ilvl but haste/verse what do u think do I keep the lower ilvl ring

[untold pewter]

You sim it

[fresh spire]

Don't think vers is very important when stance mastery exists. General concensus is your invincible in defence stance

[vapid pine]

Wait why isn't it feasible to want to swap casts if you react to a proc or whatever?

[elder zealot]

That said though, man it felt so unfair in TWW S3 when vers was good for Fury. In addition to their extra stam and flat DR from talents, they also had like 17% vers

[neon shale]

boys dos wowhed hve arm slayr for M+ build

[rare kite]

yes

[keen siren]

Slayer is fun its looks cool too

I love slayer arms

[untold pewter]

Wait why ask just go there and check lmfao

[keen siren]

I love the haste buff after bs

[rare kite]

you missed out on df s3 when vers was as good as mastery. i had 34% vers

[elder zealot]

Slayer Arms is also a lot more pug friendly, because it won't look like you're trolling on bosses

[lime solar]

can you link me the message in AT where blink posted that?

[rare kite]

actually immortal

[neon shale]

idk if updated why reply if u got nothing to say

[elder zealot]

Lmao 34%?! That's like PvP levels

[untold pewter]

Cuz I can

[keen siren]

If u go d stance u do less damage tho healer can heal me haha

[rare kite]

yea simmed higher/equal to mastery at the time so i just stacked vers

[keen siren]

I will stay battle and die

[neon shale]

then so can i

[untold pewter]

Never said otherwise

Wanna fight? Let's go

We just finished one

[neon shale]

im outside ur locker

[untold pewter]

[neon shale]

Im about to brick this poor guys 10 s first time arms

as*

[untold pewter]

Spam cleave

You'll win

[neon shale]

and take his ring whil im at it

[neon shale]

cleave and spin

i suppose

[untold pewter]

If by spin you mean whirlwind

We do not do that here

[oblique lodge]

CLEAVE CLEAVE CLEAVA any other button CLEAVE CLEAVE CLEAVE

[elder zealot]

Yeah that's a #fury ability

[neon shale]

dont slayer got BS

[elder zealot]

Yes, but that is multiple whirlwinds

[untold pewter]

BS yeah

[neon shale]

HARD

[untold pewter]

Just making sure

[sharp goblet]

i mean you don't spec cleave on some fights

so it does "exist"

[untold pewter]

Still never press it tho

[rapid ermine]

i find my aoe damage as arms in m+ is ok, but my ST on bosses is terrible, is this a skill issue or an arms issue?

[rare kite]

arms issue

atleast colossus. slayer st is aight

[unreal river]

i was doing okay with a shaman the diffy is big

[latent moss]

colo does ok st its not that bad

and does prolly best aoe in the game

[indigo ivy]

cant say without logs, but generally don't expect too much from your ST

[rare kite]

just tell tanks to pull adds with boss then the st is decent

[latent moss]

"decent"

among the highest in the game

xdd

[rare kite]

😄

[unreal river]

ihave yet to try it in riad

i was getting flamed as fury on l'ura

[rare kite]

only done nm lura and ofc that is a joke but arms felt nice there

[unreal river]

hc i was doing dog dog dps but also i noticed all the top logs are hogging the adds

[neon shale]

90k first time arms in a 10 nexcus

[unreal river]

while in my raid we have 5 padders or so

xd

[neon shale]

im ass t this

[rare kite]

prob hc lura today after dragons mythic

[unreal river]

good luck

[neon shale]

Slayr

[unreal river]

we are at 40 wipes or so

got it to 10%

[rare kite]

gonna play asmr on it. think fury seems super garbage on it

[olive nest]

[hasty pumice]

Unless you're in MT and you get double glaived before the second boss

I just popped in +17 yday

The defender lads don't mess around

[latent moss]

i dstance it in 18

with stance mastery

if 2 i dbts

and sr on cd basically

[sharp goblet]

dbts is such a gigachad button

[latent moss]

those glaives are unreal

[sharp goblet]

i fucking love it

[latent moss]

ive never took so much damage in m+

[latent moss]

aura defensive

aura name

[sharp goblet]

i like how it helps you when you "unexpectedly" aggro the entire pack (tank was gathering and i pressed CS+cleave+Demo hahahahha)

hmmm i wonder if I could set up an addon to flame our tank every time I parry....

[hasty pumice]

How do you even tank 2 as non warrior / DK lmao

Like DK and warriors with cds up have a billion effective hp

[latent moss]

no idea

[hasty pumice]

Unless you got immunities I don't see how somebody survives that

[latent moss]

my sp has do disperse i think

which is what

[hasty pumice]

I hope they reduce that damage cause I didn't expect to just pop in one tick

[latent moss]

70% dr

xdd

[sharp goblet]

bearform

[latent moss]

ye that cast is insane

[hasty pumice]

I didn't swap to Def stance and I legit died in one tick from double glaive

Gotta learn the hard way ig

[latent moss]

even the chinese do that corridor in like 3 pulls

[storm canopy]

how much is to much :d?

[hasty pumice]

Iirc you can meld the cast but the glaive bounces and obviously you don't see where to, no?

[sharp goblet]

4% vers certainly is too much

[hasty pumice]

This

[sharp goblet]

[hasty pumice]

[storm canopy]

im trying to tell me healer the same

[latent moss]

i think ams immunes the dot as well idk my dk not max level yet

[sharp goblet]

what hahhaha, why would healer tell u to get vers

on warr

[storm canopy]

he is cracked i guess lol

[unreal river]

still got shit boots

[latent moss]

theres a serious case of getting double casted on by a lot of mobs rn

like constructs in skyreach

we can reflect the cast and do dmg back but thats sr being broken

but if u get double solar flame

u need to pop all defensives

like bubble disperse etc

[unreal river]

are there spellreflect alert weakaura thingys?

[latent moss]

no

[unreal river]

i had one in dragonflight I think

damn

[latent moss]

but there are targeted spells

[rare kite]

even in raid lots of double mechanics. absorb and arrows on alleria should be illegal

[latent moss]

u have to know if its reflectable

[sharp goblet]

i miss random sound effects from WA

[unreal river]

I reflected something on L'ura

i think the laser in the sky

[latent moss]

they fixed one of the most cringe ones

manafiends in algethar

[sharp goblet]

u can reflect disintegrate (revolving beam) dmg I think

[latent moss]

could just double cast and onetap you

and its instant

[hasty pumice]

I hate how often that happens

In my last MT17 I lost a key cause my resto shaman and aug got the runic mark on the 2nd boss

[unreal river]

on the balls phase right?

[hasty pumice]

4 times in a row

It never went on me or the feral

Legit 4 times in a row on the same people

[unreal river]

i had crystal got targeted, SRd and it didnt proc soaks

[hasty pumice]

Iirc blizzard said they'd change casts to be more variable and not target the same people over and over again

My ass haha

[latent moss]

nothing worse than 3rd boss everbloom

[hasty pumice]

Now casts sometimes go through stealth or the tank pulls mobs and the caster INSTANTLY targets me

[sharp goblet]

wait Lura in dungeon or raid hahah

[hasty pumice]

Like I didn't even touch you , I'm 50000 meters away

Why are you aiming at me mon ami

[latent moss]

ye

[hasty pumice]

Or getting casters to lock on you through meld

[latent moss]

it likes you

i guess

[hasty pumice]

My bad man

[sharp goblet]

i meant dungeon, sry

[unreal river]

raid

[latent moss]

meld is huge

sr is huge

this season

[hasty pumice]

You're huge

[latent moss]

a lot of good reflects

[hasty pumice]

[sharp goblet]

im a bit sad im human

[unreal river]

anything othe than human/dwarf or orc/troll is wrong

[sharp goblet]

but then again I'd have to be a filthy elf to have meld so no thanks

[hasty pumice]

I'm a bit behind ATM on keys with only now pugging 17s but I hope I'll catch up until turbo boost

[unreal river]

troll also cant play arms

[hasty pumice]

I think people are hitting walls at 18/19 now

[unreal river]

only fury because he is berserker

[hasty pumice]

So I should be fine

[rare kite]

turbo boost not as big this season. maybe it makes like a key difference

[hasty pumice]

If you push high keys I definitely think nelf is 100% worth it

[rare kite]

turbo only on weapons and trinkets

[hasty pumice]

Meld is insanely overpowered

For threat and for casts

[latent moss]

meld is insane ye

[unreal river]

night elf maybe rogue

[latent moss]

like magisters first pull

[unreal river]

not warrior

[latent moss]

the construct cast

[unreal river]

too weak

[latent moss]

u can just meld it

[hasty pumice]

It allows you both to set up your pulls by hitting mobs before the tank finishes pulling together

And to dodge a ton of damage

Or

Delay casts by making him start over

[latent moss]

if u cant meld it you prolly have to dstance sr dbts

xddddd

[hasty pumice]

Meld is crazy

[unreal river]

warrior doesnt hide

[hasty pumice]

Wdym too weak

[unreal river]

thin arms

[hasty pumice]

[latent moss]

nelf peak race

[sharp goblet]

huh maybe I should have a dbts+ds+sr macro as a panic button

[latent moss]

dont u are just wasting dr

its multiplicative

[hasty pumice]

Gnome bis

[latent moss]

very rarely worth it to stack so much dr

[unreal river]

gnome 2hander is orc toothpick

[vale cradle]

Gnome bis

[hasty pumice]

Male gnome laugh is peak

[sharp goblet]

what if I want to charge and the boss is in fire

[hasty pumice]

Don't let anybody fool you

[latent moss]

lowk as warrior u can dstance with stance mastery

basically everything in 18s

[hasty pumice]

How's the 18s experience? 17s still feel easy but people love to throw it

[unreal river]

cow 😮

[hasty pumice]

Had a mage yesterday called keysaver

Died to the third boss in windrunner 3x

Idk about that name brother

[rare kite]

don't do it

[unreal river]

i had a guy named keybreaker he broke my 12

[hasty pumice]

If colossus arms warrior2 was so good

[latent moss]

pretty easy icl

[hasty pumice]

Why isn't there colossus arms warrior3

[latent moss]

not enough believers

[hasty pumice]

Ye I can see that, I heard that it's mostly just surviving

The timers seem free

Unless people troll obv

[latent moss]

ye

[hasty pumice]

I hate that in 17s people still don't know how to play some bosses

First nexus boss and people still insta yeet their soak markers for one useless line

[latent moss]

classic

[hasty pumice]

Just hold it

Ok hear me out Mr classic arms warrior2

[latent moss]

stance mastery is so busted

[hasty pumice]

Worst boss is windrunner last

Any agreers?

[latent moss]

last boss nexus is also annoying asf

[sharp goblet]

I big disagree

i love that boss

[unreal river]

i have a question

[sharp goblet]

sure it's annoying but cool boos

[unreal river]

if the target i cast demolish on dies

[sharp goblet]

nexus last boss is a stinker

[unreal river]

does tabtargeting before last strike make it go anyway or does it just do aoe damage

is the channel considered 3 separate skills or a single one

[hasty pumice]

True but it doesn't feel like I have to worry about charging anywhere

I can't even charge a lot on windrunner last

And third seat boss is also insane ass

Those two are my nemesis

Those two make me wanna play ranged so badly haha

[latent moss]

ye true

[rare kite]

also the most melee unfriendly tier i have ever done. so ranged favoured

[sharp goblet]

i leveled and played a devourer alt to like 255, i got hit by 15x more shit than on my warr where i charge and don't care

[robust cypress]

Just how backloaded is arm's damage. How much of its damage is the first 65% of the fight vs the final 35%

[hasty pumice]

Based

[sharp goblet]

execute phase isn't significantly different from regular damage profile

but u can look at any arms logs on warcraftlogs and look at the histogram

[spring vale]

the answer is playing a fake melee like ret or udk

30y scourge strike xd

[leaden garnet]

Seconding this, I just played stance mastery for the first time in a +14 and the difference is night and day

Will take some time to learn the muscle memory to "parry" with def stance button, but I can't imagine playing high keys without it now

[floral tide]

https://discord.com/channels/148872210742771712/1491030856813248523

Any big brains around to help smooth brain?

[slender sonnet]

unh has more range than evoker

xd

[spring vale]

it is pretty ridiculous lol

[astral yarrow]

our uh dk mirror guy is called meleemage

[spring vale]

honestly with the way udk plays now, it would make more sense for it to be an int spec

(pls keep it str tho, its nice to be able to play all 3 dk specs with crit+mastery gear)

[astral yarrow]

i would want a more necromancer focused version of dk and they could make it int

[spring vale]

there was a survey a couple months ago where they were gauging interest for something like that*

other specs like healer hunter, rogue tank, shaman tank, lich dk

[sinful pilot]

I'd kill for a caster lich dk

[loud fjord]

i have a question about aoe rota. does consuming executioners precision with 2 stacks has higher prio than a cleave or do i ignore the ms?

[floral tide]

Frost being bad and Udk being boring to play brought me to arms.

[astral yarrow]

im so sorry

[floral tide]

Nah I hate myself. I might belong here

[fresh spire]

Arms slayer feels good.

Colossus will feel amazing when we get the cdr increase and extra demolishes in .5

Just ravager needs to be fucking shot

[floral tide]

Demolish is such a fun button to press

[fresh spire]

If they rebuff demolish to hit super hard again and we get extra casts ill be very happy.

[last saddle]

We have 2 hunters and no prot tank so I can be bottom dps in peace

[lethal acorn]

Ravager = Remornia

Leave Ravager alone!

(Make it a single target tool like it was in SL)

[olive nest]

I can’t wait to demolish packs 3 times each

[wispy drum]

sorry for the dumb question, but is there any difference between eyes of the eagle rank 1 and 2?