arms

[thick hamlet]

is there a new raid or is that in 12.0.5?

[dire hinge]

there's three raids that are slowly releasing this patch

for some reason

a new one came out today, March on Quel'Danas

[raw atlas]

I think arms is viable in M+ high keys as long as the tank pulls around you. Already timing 15/16s and i’m doing as much dps as other classes as Arms. Feels short on pure ST still.

Wouldnt say its S tier tho

But you play what you like brother 😉

Also feels better than TWW arms !

[minor gust]

Colo feels a lil worse but slayer is bis

[spice field]

you're right bro but for years i am playing only arms and the result is always being a second choice in pug

even with a high io, getting declined for not fit in comps, low utilities, average dmg e.t.c

we only get prio for cleave bosses in raid since legion, literally

if i had a group who pushes that's another story but i don't

[minor gust]

the only answer if you dont want to find ppl to play with is to tank

any dps is gonna struggle like that

[spice field]

yeah i just main tank last season and even with pug i did high keys easily

[rare kite]

there's like 20 something dps specs. with the exception of the top 3 specs each season you will struggle to get into groups

even those kinda struggle as they're still dps and dps is oversaturated

[raw atlas]

Have you tried slayers in keys ? Im sure colo better clesve is just too good but

[minor gust]

ive done a lot of slayers keys a few 15s and 16s on it as well. The dmg is very good. Yes its less aoe but not that far behind

the boss dmg is a bit better and just feels easier in no coms pugs

[raw atlas]

Also better for bosses

Got it might try it

[minor gust]

if your hunting for higher overalls still def stick with colo but slayer feels like the most competitive its ever been with colo rn

[raw atlas]

Yeah still fun to sometimes change it up a bit will def try it.

[minor gust]

oh yeah Slayer is just so much more fun and chill to play in keys. I dont think ima do anymore colo keys till 12.05

[empty sluice]

Did 17 as slarms, felt rly good

Youre not sandbagging bosses at least

[hushed pine]

Slayer in keys feels more consistent

[proud remnant]

That 20% bladestorm buff happening in 12.05 will help a lot for slayer arms

Curious what builds you are running for M+ slayer arms

[minor ivy]

it's 16k less for me in dungeon slice

i wouldn't call it competitive

unless there's something idk about regarding the sim

[minor gust]

dungeon slice is not kept up to date

Simming for M+ is also LuL

[minor ivy]

for accurate m+ sims whats recommended then? 5 target 1min 30 + st?

[slow saddle]

Also just keep in mind slayer does significantly bettrr st

[minor ivy]

well im not raiding atm so, might be LuL but makes sense to me

[slow saddle]

Y u sim

St

3t

[dire hinge]

ask 10 people and you'll get 10 different answers for M+ sims

[minor gust]

^

[slow saddle]

And what ever mass aoe

U think suits

[minor ivy]

yeah I kinda thought that might be the case

[dire hinge]

the best approach is to sim in a variety of ways and make some educated guesses basically

[minor ivy]

3t? not 5? wouldn't 5 be more common in m+?

[slow saddle]

3t = prio dmg st = boss dmg + 1 mass aoe dependant on dungo

[minor gust]

also I play the game to determine whats competitive

[minor ivy]

yea i thought this might be the case

[dire hinge]

Change build -> run another key

[slow saddle]

3 is fob // cleave where shit activates

He wanted difference between slayrr and col and its those 3 things id consider relevany

St prio dmg and mass aoe

[jolly lily]

So guys, scnd craft Bracers with arcanoweave?

[slow saddle]

Yes

Or cloak

Id prob do cloak tbh

[minor ivy]

cloaks can be traded to you though, bracers only plate

why u think cloak better?

[wooden glen]

guyyys if you got a myth track occlusion of void in vault

would you send crests on it for 6/6?

[slow saddle]

1st boss drops bracers

[rare burrow]

guys is arms S tier spec now?

[slow saddle]

No

S as in slum

Yes

M+ good though

Raid still slumlord spec

[rare burrow]

for M+ fury or arms?

[proud iron]

nope

[minor gust]

if you are planning on killing mythic bosses this week wait till after. If not and you only get myth from vault then you can send

[summer niche]

[marble marsh]

Is it normal for a Chest upgrade to be double the value better than a weapon upgrade? I guess it's cause I've crafted a weapon already and I'm really unsure what to pick 😬 Either Haste/Mastery Myth track weapon or Myth track Chest

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uKAHLM3bYguNBcMj2kjEUa

[wooden glen]

I see. Is the logic behind that that i might get a myth track piece from raid that is 2/6 myth or higher, making me save on crests?

[minor gust]

mostly you just might get a better value item like chest or helm thats more worth to upg than a ring

but for the most part theres no harm in sending myth crests

[wooden glen]

Makes sense 👍

Thanks man

[cinder marsh]

im new to arms, is demolish a frontal ability or an area like thunder clap for example

[maiden egret]

heey guys - is arms better now in high keys then fury ? sorry for silly question i haven't tried arms yet this season

[minor ivy]

send on crafted bracers too u reckon?

[minor gust]

bracers or cloak doesnt really matter. I made bracers cuz I still had champ track bracers

[minor ivy]

nah as in send myth crests

[minor gust]

thats what I was referring to

[dire hinge]

To demonstrate what Frozenbozo already said, it depends on the gear you started with too.
In your sim, your upgrades is conextually higher for your chest piece (high ilvl jump for chest -> chest than weapon -> weapon). Your weapon upgrade would only give you +9 strength and your chest gives you +14 strength.

[minor ivy]

I thought you were talking about vault item, then didn't realize I wasn't talking about crests, just which to craft

myb

[dire hinge]

that myth weapon is still an upgrade eventually, just less of an upgrade right now than the chest would be

[marble marsh]

makes sense, thanks very much ❤️

[dire hinge]

it's a square frontal i believe

[dire hinge]

both fury and arms have been able to clear +18s, so it doesn't really matter much which one you pick tbh.
Choose based on preference mostly. Learning both is good, but if you're struggling with one just ask in here for help and folks can usually help coach you on what might be going wrong

[slow saddle]

Different dmg profiles

[maiden egret]

exactly different dmg profiles

[slow saddle]

Id prob give the tip 2 fury

As it almost has same overalls, but way better boss dmg

Though arms does rly well if u pull unto bosses

[safe island]

hey im trying col arms, what buff should i track?

[latent moss]

colossal might

@thick kelp

i dont wanna craft bracers

cause they would be 259

and i have socket from the first vault

[thick kelp]

idk

craft myth belt :))?

[maiden egret]

in M+ usually we play colossus with Ravager instead of bladestorm ?

[misty wind]

hi where can i find a opener for slayer aoe?

or just cleave instead of ms

[sleek lintel]

is arms back babby??

[nova marsh]

Yes

[maiden egret]

i also guess usual macro avatar + ravager / Collosus smash + Demolish

correct?

and use collosus smash + demolish after building collosus might

[solar nymph]

CS/Avatar->demolish->ravager->cleave fest

[maiden egret]

damn so i cant pair thenm together based on their cooldown

[thick kelp]

you could macro CS+avatar if you really really really want to macro something

[maiden egret]

yea no

[thick kelp]

This only works if you have 10 stacks of CM on pull

[solar nymph]

yeah but i'm not even sure the cm stacks are worth it considering demo damage

while getting back the cm stacks asap for the rest of the pull is big

[oblique lodge]

Craft belt no?

[nocturne needle]

can you still macro puzzle box to bs?

[thick kelp]

They are

you dont wanna send demo at <5 stacks

in aoe

[solar nymph]

yeah but usually u can just get a few ms cleave while the tiger panzer is pulling and believe in the power of crit

[solar nymph]

that was for the avatar bs so i would assume not anymore?

[onyx rapids]

been trying out arms via mythic keys.
definately a aoe god but....
single target is actually kinda hard to look at....

[sleek lintel]

is it worth trying arms or fury still ahead

[dire hinge]

No that was an indirect feature of an Avatar talent that no longer exists. Gotta precast it now

The gain is super worth it though. Huuuuge burst damage

[quiet bramble]

Play both

[maiden egret]

guys, if i don't open vault yet ( not choose item) and i do a key, will i get a key at the end of the dungeon equivalent to what i did last week ? or will it be equivalent to the dungeon i do ? - i have done +15 last week but now i just wanna farm 10 for gear will i get a +15

[nocturne needle]

ok fairs, ty!

[crisp mesa]

my worst fears came true... I hate using this trinket

[oblique lodge]

Last week is last week , this week is this week

[solar nymph]

[oblique lodge]

So yes , whenever u open the vault u got rn , I will get a 15

[onyx rapids]

i switched to arms
if you can bear your low dps when it comes to boss damage, i suggest arms
fury is constitent throughout at the cost of your fingers and wrist.
arms preforms better overall due to very high aoe at the cost of low boss dps.(almost tank level)

[old glacier]

Hmm. I'm not crafting a 285 arcanoweave wrist right?

[oblique lodge]

So that's why my left hand is bigger then my right hand

[sleek lintel]

oh ye, my boomer wrist hurt alot on fury was wondering what is going on, it is realy spammy

[solar nymph]

in most dungeon you can ask your tank take adds on boss so you can funnel, but yeah on purely mono bosses its a bit sad

[onyx rapids]

lol

[oblique lodge]

Pls tell me boomer starts from an early age..

[onyx rapids]

i think only premade groups can do that. hard to find that level of thank when pugging global

[slow saddle]

Just remove chrushin combo blizzard

[onyx rapids]

also i think its bery important to know how and where to position yourself when dps-ing.
fury was kinda easy when it comes to positioning

[slow saddle]

Or let it be ms // cleave

[solar nymph]

depends on the key lvl too ig

[slow saddle]

Later u will get it, in keys where possible

[onyx rapids]

yeah your right
the higher you go the better tanks get and do that

[old glacier]

Ah, mythic tier head I can catalize. I'll take it.

[solar nymph]

Got haste mastery weap in vault

and took the pants

[nocturne needle]

is there a way to hide buttons on the highlight assist?

[elder zodiac]

how behind is slayer's AoE compared to colossus? with the new buffs, is it worth considering going slayer if you lack ST damage in your comp?

[stoic siren]

I think arms will be meta now for mythic plus with the fury gut to MT

[empty sluice]

Are these warr changes april fools joke?

[balmy kindle]

So is colossus Alive guys

[stoic siren]

Warrior is everyday fools joke

[empty sluice]

Dont be so dramatic

Its not that bad tho

[stoic siren]

I mean it’s a big nerf in aoe dmg

[thorn stream]

demo changes will probably offset loosing 1!!! cleave from crushing combo, if they announce % on demo aswell

seems like a direction

[stoic siren]

ST still feels kinda ass but slayer arms not too bad

Decent st on that

[thorn stream]

oh.. i thought you were arguing about 12.0.5 ptr notes

[old glacier]

Pretty sure I'm just going to make the 285 wrists.

Itemlevel is king

[thorn stream]

cloak or wrists

depends on your gear

[old glacier]

It's wrists for sure My lowest ilvl slot

[thorn stream]

[weak wave]

So Colossus gets a giga buff next patch while Slayer remains meh?

[thorn stream]

could also wait for raid since imperator drops wrists

[untold talon]

Hello Guys do we have to change the talent three to pick more Exec talent even in m+ now ?

[old glacier]

How come?

[latent moss]

Dominance of the Colossus reduces the cooldown of Demolish by 5 seconds when you would gain a stack of Colossal Might and are already at max stacks (was 2 seconds).

this is a monster buff

[weak wave]

-5 sec on CD

Imagine critting with two MS via SS: 20 sec cdr at once

This will never go live

[old glacier]

Oh I didn't see any notes

[rancid robin]

We can't really change talent around exec in M+ (as demolish ofc)

[rancid robin]

PTR

[old glacier]

Ahh

[rancid robin]

Tbh they can't send this live

even for those poor fury guy they got their legs BROKEN

[latent moss]

good

fury had to get changed

ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc

[old glacier]

I like the rend range change

[rancid robin]

and arms with the 5s refund demolish instead of 2 (x2) on crit will be op af

[latent moss]

is not a real rotation

[rancid robin]

True tww S3 for high key i had to drop arms for fury

Arms was that much of a joke ...

[latent moss]

idk whats that got to do

with thane fury being a 2 button spec

in aoe

[rancid robin]

I agree

while in arms their is tbh a pretty decent micro opti to have if u wanna really pump the shit out of everyone

with the lil rework we got on SS and insta cleave refresh with colossus it's really satisfying to get all ur cleave in time

[rose ibex]

The ptr changes look like a big nerf to slayer but I can take comfort that colossus will be even more fun

[umbral badger]

i just came here to ask our theorycrafters what do they think about it xd

[umbral badger]

looks like a good direction but not gonna fix colossus ST

at all

[latent moss]

if that change was added right now

colo would be broken

[umbral badger]

yes but not ST

right ?

i don't see how this will fix the ST

probably would be insane on 2 target fights

[rose ibex]

Well, it might close the gap with slayer after their reap nerfs

It would also just make the spec more fun

[minor gust]

colo beats out slayer in ST in 12.05

[tall citrus]

Is there any way to sim before i craft wrist if i should craft them with haste/mastery or haste/crit

[minor gust]

this is still true considering theres still no compensation buffs for slayer

[rose ibex]

What would they have to do to specifically buff slayer to keep it competitive?

Without also buffing colossus

[thick kelp]

Buff the Slayer only talents

[umbral badger]

how would that happen ? is there anything else other htan this demo stuff

[thick kelp]

Make unhinged stronger etc

[umbral badger]

cuz i am sure as hell this demo change alone won't fix olossus

[minor gust]

they decided to make reap aoe on so you just buff the slayer ST stuff like SS and unhinged

[rose ibex]

It seems like their initial plan was to put more power on bladestorm which sounds silly

[minor gust]

its not about what colo gains its what slayer loses

slayer lost a ton of dmg with no more reap

[umbral badger]

yes but colossus is so far behind righ now you'd need to nerf slayer by like 30% lol

[thick kelp]

Easy way to buff Slayer is buffing the executioner dmg bonus or like the 5 other tuning knobs the tree has

[rose ibex]

I like how it is right now. Feels like I can play either spec and put out good damage

[minor gust]

thats just not true but ok

[umbral badger]

after today's buff it is 100% true, at least by live logs comparisons

[thorn stream]

do you even realize how much slayer looses without ST reap

[minor gust]

like always

[rose ibex]

12.05 is stiiiiiill concerning

[umbral badger]

cuz we already see that even one of the best colossus players is doing 20% to 30% less dps than slayer even without today's buffs

[latent moss]

ye until its aoe

idk where u getting the 20 to 30% figure

[minor gust]

he just likes to make shit up

its kinda his thing

[umbral badger]

even in aoe boss fights cuz all AOE boss fights are made so that we can't cleave/ demo sadly

[thorn stream]

[umbral badger]

"likes ot make shit up" you can take 1 single min to check logs

70k vs 100k on a boss like fallin king

for colossus vs arms

[rose ibex]

5s cdr on demo would be soooo busted

[umbral badger]

yea would be nice on aoe to have 2-3 demos

[latent moss]

arms in raid xdd

[vapid pine]

Has anyone gotten this error when trying to sim multi-target?

"SimulationCraft exited with error code 40"
"Error: Initialization error: Player 'Rhoonea': Unable to create action 'thunderous_roar'."

[thick kelp]

you are using an old custom apl

with thunderous roar

?

[umbral badger]

yea there is an arms guy who have only likes colossus, he is a top parser every raid and every tier. it makes me feel bad for him but he goes colossus on ST too and his top is 76k on fallen king vs slayer arms doing 107k

it's not even close

30k dps difference between a top tier colossus warriors and top tier slayer in real time fights

[vapid pine]

Ah fuck yeah I am apparently, the window wasn't open so didn't even notice ty

[umbral badger]

so anyone who thinks colossus will magically beat slayer just cuz of a slayer nerf and demo buff is delusional atm :p

[thick kelp]

:P:P:P:P

[latent moss]

arms in raid xdd

[thick kelp]

colossus is not that much behind in St

:)

[latent moss]

outside of like 2 bosses

[rose ibex]

Who cares. Make both specs equally or closely viable in all content

[umbral badger]

it might not be 30k behind in sims, but in real time fights specs suffer differently with downtime and movement and chaos

you just can't count the guy out cuz he have proven himself to be top tier raid after raid and yet he is 30k behind the slayer spec

[chrome vale]

How good is the Nexus Poin ring combo for Arms?

[thick kelp]

why would downtime affect slayer any different than it affects colossus

both specs r reliant on boss uptime

[umbral badger]

one reason would be because colossus gets a much smaller window of CS if slaye has bladestorm

so if you get a mechanic on CS you might just lose the entire thing

bladestorm + unhinged is giga for CS duration as slayer

but overall it's only natural that specs suffer differently anyway

[thick kelp]

but that relies on being in range

for the unhingeds

for cs

[umbral badger]

yea yea i am saying it as an example i did not think enough about the entire thing i am just saying numbers won't be 100% the same between specs for downtime

[rose ibex]

I hate agalthar

[minor gust]

[latent moss]

preach

fuck ass dungeon

[rose ibex]

Super big. Super deadly. Annoying bosses

Hate bird. Hate dodgeball dragon

[latent moss]

trash is fucking cringe

they kinda fixed manafiends tho

[rose ibex]

Plant room pull is a butt clencher

Items suck

[umbral badger]

either way, if we take another semi ST boss like there is 15k differene boss damage before this week's buffs

[latent moss]

so thats good

[umbral badger]

so it will be bigger with the new bufs

[rose ibex]

Who cares dude

Number go up number go down

[minor gust]

trying to compare logs like that is flawed

and pointless

[umbral badger]

it is not pointless, it's literally the point.

pathwerk simming can't be taken as granted

[rose ibex]

All that matters is that I hit stuff with big weapon

[latent moss]

👍

🪤

[thorn stream]

even trying to make a point with current logs for 12.0.5 changes makes even less sense

[umbral badger]

you can't say the live logs of top players are not the point

[thorn stream]

imho

[rose ibex]

This conversation is silly and dumb. I go to sleep zone

[thick kelp]

Heroic parses

xff

[rose ibex]

Crush your enemies. Burn agalthar to the ground

[umbral badger]

the whole idea that live logs are not the point when it's literally the whole reason why ppl ask for balance is just weird to me

[minor gust]

severe lack of data one guy playing colo on a heroic fight vs the rest of the community playing arms

that sure gives you the whole picture right!

[thorn stream]

but you are also mixing up live !!heroic!! with future patch changes

[latent moss]

heroic parses

xdd

[minor gust]

xdd

[umbral badger]

dude, you can't just play this game to deny the problem. there is severe lack of popularity and data because it's weak , not because it's 'hiddenly strong and no one discovered it yet"

[latent moss]

ye like arms totally wasn't hiddenly strong in m+

not saying that it is in raid

[minor gust]

yeah and colo gonna be the goto in 12.05!

arent you happy lil bro!

[latent moss]

just saying that lack of popularity can be due to a lot of things

not just being weak

[minor gust]

slayer ST gutted!

[umbral badger]

it wasn't hiddnely strong for 3 weeks after release, was it ?

[latent moss]

yes i ak

am

it was

arms was really good ever sinc ethe 15% aura

[umbral badger]

it's like you both are arguing that 3 entire weeks of raiding and ppl still have not figured out how close colossus is to slayer

lol

[thorn stream]

aoe was never the problem + early aura

[umbral badger]

also at the very least the little data you have is from trustworthy inviduals not from some random newbie stumbling accross the spec

[minor gust]

I guarantee you if every good arms player swapped to colo right now it wouldnt look that far behind slayer at all

[latent moss]

95% of this discord doesnt even know colo st

with st talents

[umbral badger]

i gaurantee you, you are just trying to cope

[minor gust]

might wanna look in the mirror on that one

[umbral badger]

do you really think this guy is having "maximum skill issues'

he has bene a top warrior for a long time

or do you think he jus suddenly forgot to push his keys ?

you have a top warrior providing you data

not a nobody

[minor gust]

[umbral badger]

and his data are clearly showing that colossus is far behind in real time compared to slayre

[bold granite]

https://giphy.com/gifs/macho-man-randy-savage-2ABCr6UjvZ1Xa

[latent moss]

now look at vanguard

[minor gust]

you know two equally skilled players can have vastly different outcomes in a raid pull right!

[umbral badger]

i dont' care about vanguard, vanguard does not fix the ST issue colossus has

[latent moss]

so u want to be

mao zedong on 2t+ and st

[umbral badger]

yes, but also a player that is this good can provide you a decent rough estimates of how far behind a spec is

[latent moss]

thats just called being broken

[umbral badger]

are we "mao zedong" on 2 target ? there are plenty of specs beaitng us or equal to us

it's not like we are top spec on that fight lol

[minor gust]

[latent moss]

i guess bro

[thorn stream]

[latent moss]

🪤

[umbral badger]

if they have issues with 2 target cleave they could just not give us 100% sweeping instead of 75% and then fix the ST, the whole point i am making here is that colosuss is far behind and the claim that it will beat slayer at 12.0.5 based on the data we have is not true

[thorn stream]

you dont have enough data yet

[umbral badger]

so i'd rather ppl know that we need fixing for the spec maybe with enough feedback we will get it someday

you won't have more data, no one will touch the spec if it's this week.

we are already at popularity low cuz of the weakness

[dense sphinx]

anyone that thinks arms is magically very good (not even top tier) in 12.0.5
i have a nigerian prince to introduce you to

[umbral badger]

yup

don't get me wrong i am happy demo will stop desycning in ST at least xd

just nto enough for colossus to compare to any actual ST spec including slayer arms

[dense sphinx]

better? yes
suddenly invited into the bandwagon? heck no

[floral ledge]

fk me i didn't do the 3rd chest myth ):

im sad

[latent moss]

myth legs are good

[umbral badger]

they need to remove cleave from this shit and make this shit like 50% to make colossus work 🤣 then at least colossus mortal strikes and slams will be good

[tepid cape]

Very sad the hammer is 269

[chilly island]

Are the new announced changes a nerf to arms aoe?

[umbral badger]

probably not, 1 cleave lost but you might be able to do 1 more demolish every pull which is probably a big gain in aoe

[thorn stream]

thats a bummer
myth legs are good tho (:

[umbral badger]

unless the pull dies in 10 seconds or something

[chilly island]

Basically a bit lower burst but higher consistent aoe, sounds nice

[umbral badger]

i even like the other aspecs of demo tbh

like reducing dmg taken and so on

[latent moss]

huge buff if the colossal might changes stay

[spring vale]

Extra damage amp on targets as well :)

[umbral badger]

yea

and more consistant haste buff

10%

[chilly island]

I didn’t even think of the extras from it tbf, I just loved the 3 instant cleaves and panicked 🤣

[umbral badger]

i mean to be fair the 3 cleaves have upsides during ravager ofc but outside of ravager most of those cleaves had 25% cl

from collateral

only

not 75%

so in that sense you lose 1 stack collateral cleave right ?

i assume

not 3 stacks collateral cleave

[chilly island]

True, also cleaving without overpower beforehand felt odd at times

[onyx rapids]

um guys i dont have 4set but
im doing 50k ~ 55k-ish dps during single boss.
is this right?!

while mythic pugging

[zenith warren]

if you did it would have been vers ring instead in that slot so dont worry

vault prophet here

[umbral badger]

at least i am happy i did the pvp quest

the hero neck from it is good for fury offspe

spec

[zenith warren]

looks good but doing 4 pvp quests is a big no no

[umbral badger]

used the hnor to buy recipies i can slel in AH so not too bad xd

[slender sonnet]

(for reference I'm know as fury in my guild cause that was my DHs name when I joined in SL)

[spring vale]

Why call it Fury warrior when it uses Rage, the very first thing and they get it wrong

[summer niche]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-worldofwarcraft-hopon-hop-on-wow-rambo-gif-713919508968165362

[hearty forum]

forgive me if im asking a typical question but where is my rage, i seem to only barely get past the opener before im sitting there lick an idiot with no rage

[drifting apex]

So guys we keep the same M+ three or it change with the patch?

[fair tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/gachi-oh-shit-a-am-sorry-gachimuchi-gif-13510847

[fair gust]

With new patch for myth raid - it would still be fury > arms on all bosses besides vanguards?

[umbral badger]

probably arms slayer will still be fine for some of the myth bosses

with this week buffs especially

[umbral badger]

and also colossus might be good at vaelgor and ezzorak too , even if the new changes are not giga for colossus it will still be decent on that fight i feel like

[thick kelp]

gg

[frail crystal]

any prio changes with these notes? still cleave in single target ?

[thick kelp]

still cleavin

[rotund cairn]

are you the nigerian prince

[halcyon valve]

i cant even see what overall dmg i do in a dungeon because my details is broken 😔

[tacit crystal]

gotta look at logs sadly

[thorn stream]

or use blizzards dmg meter

[umbral badger]

i remember fish said something about being able to execute "not too sure", if so in m+ spec under 20% you can probalby execute now. so cleave between 35% to 20% adn then execute? ofc we need the sim crafters to confirm

btw guys is raidbots now updated for today buffs ?

ahh nvm it sys with march 31th hotfixes, great.

[gentle gyro]

Been playing slayer idc

Demo so ahh

[frail crystal]

im just a noob but i switched 2 lines in the apl, with more slam less cleave in single target, maybe is the prio wrong, but as "filler" slam is now better then cleave in this sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j9MbE3ZG1fmWpusfXD3cEA .. in wowhead guide its still cleave > slam

[umbral badger]

i personally never replaced cleave with slam prio 35%, it gives you more heroic strikes which is better in most situations. that being said if there is one single enemy "obviously" or if the target is below 35% cleave becomes much stronger

[thick kelp]

I posted some sims like yesterday about this topic where cleave does come out ahead as a filler with the updated apl

which is not on the raidbots

[frail crystal]

it seams like apl is not updated yet.. execute > cleave mass execution in ST too in my sims, but dont know, maybe i dont get the big picture, because still beginner in arms (colossus)

[thick kelp]

starting from here

the updated apl looks like this tho

actions.colossus_st+=/sweeping_strikes,if=active_enemies=2&(cooldown.colossus_smash.remains&buff.sweeping_strikes.down|!talent.broad_strokes)
actions.colossus_st+=/ravager,if=cooldown.colossus_smash.remains<=gcd
actions.colossus_st+=/avatar
actions.colossus_st+=/colossus_smash
actions.colossus_st+=/cleave,if=buff.ravager.remains&buff.collateral_damage.stack=3
actions.colossus_st+=/champions_spear
actions.colossus_st+=/demolish,if=debuff.colossus_smash.up&buff.colossal_might.stack>0
actions.colossus_st+=/heroic_strike,if=active_enemies=2
actions.colossus_st+=/mortal_strike
actions.colossus_st+=/heroic_strike
actions.colossus_st+=/overpower,if=active_enemies=2
actions.colossus_st+=/cleave,if=buff.ravager.remains|buff.collateral_damage.stack=3
actions.colossus_st+=/overpower
actions.colossus_st+=/cleave,if=talent.mass_execution&target.health.pct<35
actions.colossus_st+=/execute
actions.colossus_st+=/whirlwind,if=active_enemies=2&buff.collateral_damage.stack=3
actions.colossus_st+=/wrecking_throw,if=active_enemies=1
actions.colossus_st+=/rend,if=dot.rend_dot.remains<=gcd*5
actions.colossus_st+=/cleave,if=active_enemies=2
actions.colossus_st+=/slam```

[umbral badger]

i did see ppl use cleave without any of those buffs / apl conditions and above 35% health so maybe a misconception ?

[frail crystal]

its in the wowhead guide sadly

[umbral badger]

or rather, a misunderstanding.

[thick kelp]

probably uninformed

and this one is according to the changes that went live today

wowhead guide isnt precisely up to date, since APL is much much much faster to adjust and update

[umbral badger]

honestly it's such a complication that is not needed, if blizz buffed slam even slightly all of this won't be a thing i think for the most part

[thick kelp]

well only pressing cleave during ravager/3 collats is simming like within 0.3% of this

so you could get away with not cleaving in St if it disrubts your gameplay

[spring vale]

Is there a way to input the APL into something that translates it for us that dont speak APL-ese

[umbral badger]

yea , still blizzard hates "complications" they might as well give slam 15% buff

[frail crystal]

maybe using the cleave execute from 35 to 20 maybe too

[umbral badger]

i think

[thick kelp]

Yeah you can ask @dire hinge to translate it (Or see what any AI model can do)

[spring vale]

Ty ty

[fresh spire]

tbf its pretty easy to read

skill = reason to press skill

| = or & = and

[thick kelp]

warriros have it easy

compared to some other specs (feral)

[spring vale]

🗒️ 🖊️

[thick kelp]

DO not open the feral apl

you wont understand anything

[spring vale]

Id love to play Feral but I just dont like that you kinda have to use Convoke instead of Incarn. im aware im alone in this opinion though

[thorn stream]

i also dont like convoke thematically

so you are not alone

[spring vale]

🎉

Like im aware all you have to do is press it and stare at it doing a morbillion damage but it looks a bit silly to me

[umbral badger]

only a few reasons i hate ferals nowadays although they were my main for a long time, convoke is 100% one of them.

warriors FTW

[carmine flower]

What does firelands raid give

[thick kelp]

firelands champ items

weekly drops a hc piece

[carmine flower]

Nice

[umbral badger]

oh shit forgot about that

nice maybe i get a ring or a trinket or some shit, i am 273 and still with some trashy champ pieces

[spring vale]

Its one of the easier TW raids too, only Raggy has some mechanics, the other bosses just kinda die

And you can always just get a skip to last boss

[umbral badger]

i mean you need 5 bosses anyway , no ?

although i don't even remember how many bosses is firelands lol

7 😮

[spring vale]

Theres 2 weeklies, 1 is just raggy kill and the other is either firelands bosses or tw dungeons (can mix and match)

[umbral badger]

ahh yea usually that's how it goes and the raggy kill one is the hero track ?

and where do you geti t

[marsh hamlet]

guys fury or arms for solo delving?

[spring vale]

Raggy kill is hero track yeah,quest should be both inside the raid and at the NPC you use to queue in at your capital city

[umbral badger]

if i get this trinket would be nice if it vcan drop

[latent moss]

idk ragnaros for me died in like

5 seconds

got onesho

t

[spring vale]

I havent tried it this week but in TWW we were seeing eggs on Raggy

And having to go from left to right 💀

[latent moss]

ye we got adds too

but it was like 10 seconds total

i dont remember anymore

[carmine flower]

Ok thanks yh it was rly fast lol

[umbral badger]

ok lets find out where is this raggy quest 😮 i get lost in a 1 way straight street let alone in silvermoon xd

[spring vale]

Should be the circle with all the portals in your capital city (not the portal room)

For stormwind its close to the lake near the embassy

[reef bone]

Slayer arms seems really fun now - is it miles behind on lighforge paladins or can it compete?

[fair gust]

for mythic or hc?

[reef bone]

hc

[fair gust]

i mean its prolly still troll but on hc it doesnt really matter?

[reef bone]

Well yeah I don't care about killing the thing I care about doing more damage than my raid group so I can flex on them

[fair gust]

Well

[latent moss]

colo

[fair gust]

You can answer yourself just looking at the logs xD

There isnt a single person playing slayer there xD

[reef bone]

fair enough, I thought the buffs might have changed things

execute buff etc

[slender sonnet]

Is the tier list on wowhead still wrong saying that gaze of the alnseer is s tier

[polar portal]

Maybe it's not that bad

Colossus is obviously better so that's what everyone who cares is playing

But perhaps you can do well as slayer too

[slender sonnet]

suiiiii

[sacred zodiac]

holy hell (is this good)

[slender sonnet]

I dunno

just crit

I see crit I get excited

[thick kelp]

its good if u get it from the hero box, otherwise generic stat trinket with generic budget

[old glacier]

What if you are still missing a heroic trinket.😭

[torpid pagoda]

anyone know what addon gives the "no heroic leap" text i see warriors using?

[plucky fern]

itruliaQoL

[wide needle]

Someone named biz was suggested

To watch on YouTube

What was the name

[soft dew]

Hey, do we have a reflect spreadsheet somewhere?

[soft dew]

Bizentein

He's literally streaming rn

[umbral badger]

bizentein is basically the peak you need to look for arms warrior in m+ "colossus specifically"

[soft dew]

He's trying slayer out rn

[oblique lodge]

bizentein , highest warrior rio arms

[umbral badger]

oh shit gotta watch that

btw guys regarding those changes, are they next week ? at least based on what they are saying on top it seems to be ?

i want to know cuz it is very important for mythic raid progression if those come in

[soft dew]

12.0.5 is in a few months afaik

[neat locust]

ha the small buffs helped our ST, has anyone had the chance to test it :)?

[umbral badger]

dunno i don't understand what do they mena with "this week"

on top

[soft dew]

PTR is testing realm

[vapid pine]

Changes this week are to the .5 PTR servers, not live servers

[umbral badger]

i see

sadge those changes are needed right now for Colossus

i want more demos on ST

[vapid pine]

Colo has a solid niche atm imo

[umbral badger]

still annoying for demo to keep desyncing

those changes would be so cool now

for ST

[wide needle]

Yeah he freaking pumping

Wow

[old glacier]

I haven't really noticed in m+ at least. The changes. Probably different if actually playing slayer.

[mild sierra]

You havnt noticed it cus its not out

[neat locust]

can we feel this?, haven't tried yet

:Warrior
Arms
Developers’ notes: Arms single target damage remains lower than intended, particularly Execute.
Execute damage increased by 20%. Does not affect PvP combat.
Overpower damage increased by 10%. Does not affect PvP combat.

[vapid pine]

You'll feel Execute doing roughly 20% more damage and OP roughly 10% more

[thorn stream]

[old glacier]

Are we using the other nexus point ring too for a full set?

[thick kelp]

if it sims well for you

[old glacier]

I keep telling people to sim when they ask questions like this and then I do the same thing.

[plucky fern]

ring set is about 1.2-1.3% st dps and 0.5-0.6% overall damage in key
im pretty sure it offsets slightly unefficient stats of second ring

[fallow notch]

Did we play all around Collosus in Raid now in ST? 😄

[plucky fern]

if you have alleria neck it might be even better, since you need shadow damage to proc the neck

[thorn stream]

can also get the gloves from seat for that

endless possibilities

[old glacier]

Oh thats true.

[thorn stream]

just do what the robot tells ya

[wet current]

I did slayer mostly last night in raid and man it feels rage starved at times.

[plucky fern]

simmed today and alleria neck is 0.7% upgrade for me
im pretty sure it didnt even appear when i didnt have rings

so this combo op

now i just need to get the neck

[storm pendant]

Feel stronger in M+ still can’t find raid because no friend

[balmy kindle]

Arms change worth coming back?

[wet current]

should have never left

m+ is awesome, slayer raid is kinda slow, colossus raid is fun on the fights i've used it. overall very fun and still contributes and keeps up with everyone in my raid. but we only go for aotc and do no mythic raiding.

[old glacier]

Vanguard fight was great.

[wet current]

yeah that is a blast for colossus

i still think my warrior is sleepy though when he plays slayer in raid. i'm a rage fueled fool and slayer is not very full of rage lol more like age fueled and need to take a nap

[rough pewter]

any talent change suggested with the recent patch?

for m+

[thick kelp]

no

[plucky fern]

no

[wet current]

i didnt change any m+ talents and still crushed a lot

[plucky fern]

btw did someone find any real good usages of fearless talent in keys?
it only removes slows, not roots, right?

i might be missing something but it feels like a bait

[cobalt lodge]

is it just me or do executes indeed hit a lot fatter post reset?

[wet current]

probably because it was buffed 20%

[thick kelp]

The circles from trash in seat is nice

[balmy kindle]

Was kinda looking forward to Midnight until the pre release nerfs

Maybe picking up on a sale

[plucky fern]

pre release nerfs were a good sign
if you are the worst class in the game its much more likely they will overbuff you
turned out arms is pretty good now and only getting better with each patch

cant wait for 12.0.5 the change to dominance is huge

[wet current]

I can completely understand. for me personally I realized swapping toons and being an altoholic just took away from the fun for me. websites and groups are heavily focused on the meta. in reality majority of the time, most specs and most classes are fine for casual guilds like mine that just mythic + to 10s/12s and only heroic aotc. so i just stick with arms since dragonflight, because it is my love language. no point in me changing when i'm still competitive for my casual guild and do not hold us back. a lot of the times i still keep up with the guildies who constantly swap to the "meta"

[shadow ibex]

I dont believe that goes live

Unless they cap cdr per global

[plucky fern]

they probably will make it like that, yes
and thats still positive change

[shadow ibex]

I can see them capping it at 10. That's still 2 more seconds than if you had sweeping up and both ms crit on live

Yea it would still be a gain 10 v 8

0% chance we get a whole 20 sec cdr if you sweep MS and both crit

Thats just insane

[wet current]

losing that extra cleave stinks, but overall .5 looks good

[shadow ibex]

Well maybe if demolish became cs

I could see that

Crushing combo cleave spam is a little degenerate imo

Im ok with that getting lowered

[thick kelp]

its fun as fuck

[shadow ibex]

I know

You gotta let it breathe tho

[plucky fern]

well if dominance will still work with SS, then ms probably going to be higher prio in aoe
so we dont care too much about losing one cleave from crushing combo

[shadow ibex]

Ms being on cd should be the baseline they aim for

Whatever keeps up doing that

[wet current]

oh yeah i agree the math adds up, but cleave spam can be fun haha

i'm a simple minded creature

[shadow ibex]

If we ever stray from that then they lost the plot

[cobalt lodge]

okay i gotta say cleave hits like a wet noodle now lol

still not very happy

[shadow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/russell-westbrook-nba-okc-thunder-what-huh-gif-5070054

[latent moss]

what

[wet current]

hmmm

[latent moss]

cleave

wet noodle?

[wet current]

I dunno man cleave is pretty baller

[spring vale]

use it during ravager or with collat stacks and try again xd

[plucky fern]

cleave is so bad we have to use it in single target

agreed

buff cleave

[shadow ibex]

I was about to say lol

[wet current]

lol

[shadow ibex]

The aoe button that appears in ST

[wet current]

maybe they meant whirlwind lol

[balmy kindle]

stop giving me hopium

[spring vale]

you mean the ST button that we love in AoE

[shadow ibex]

Lmso

That part

[cobalt lodge]

fuck playing colo lol that is so bland

[spring vale]

Colo til i die

[sick crown]

Any sim masterminds here that can help me with crafting ? Ive been simming it and it tells me to make hands(makes sense since they are bad stats from the tier) and everyguide tells me to make belt/cloak can anyone tell me the reasoning behind it ?

[plucky fern]

oh i see

another unskippable cutscene enjoyer

[wet current]

i crafted 272 weapon asap. i've not looked at crafter belt cloak yet this season cause i used all my crests on weapon. however it's usually cause the embellishments and the alternative gear from raids/dungeons do not perform as well as those crafted items with those embellishments.

[spring vale]

Cleave so good they should make Cleave 2

the Cleavequel

[wet current]

cleave only number 1!

[shadow ibex]

Disgusting creatures

Cutscene enjoyers when they get to play same spec for 4 straight tiers

[old glacier]

Doing higher and higher keys. I'm not used to such gigapulls!

[bold granite]

Cleavicular

[old glacier]

"Surely this is enough" Pops cooldowns, Tank pulls more

[bold granite]

Cleave Maxxing

[wet current]

cleaveaocalypse

[copper swan]

Cleavannas

[old glacier]

So many arms warriors coming out of the woodwork pugging m+ now.

I was here first!

[shadow ibex]

My ravager used to give me colossus stacks

[wet current]

i never left

[shadow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/blade-runner-tears-in-rain-gif-6049032

[paper gulch]

It must have forgot how

[rare burrow]

hi

now we wre better than furries guys

etsgoooo

[thorn stream]

[wet current]

lmao

[rare burrow]

?

arent we?

[wet current]

oh im just laughing at your phrasing

[thorn stream]

fury should be still ahead on most fights

[sharp wyvern]

cause every fight has a million adds

[rare burrow]

i mean mythic plas not raids

[shadow ibex]

Both are great in m+

[fallow notch]

carpal tunnel syndrome Fury are better every Expansion, not later then next Raid Tier, they outrun us Arms again.

[olive nest]

I gotta figure out how to take cleave in ST without much loss

[rapid bronze]

people are inviting now and asking how are the arms buffs

"you'll see"

[olive nest]

Just last night
“I haven’t played with an arms warrior yet”
“Oh yeah? Well aren’t you in for a treat”

Drops a 50k gap overall on the next dps

[late yarrow]

Arms decent now? Fury exacerbating my carpal tunnel

[rapid bronze]

man it was really nice to play it in raid yesterday

[naive shoal]

shit single target good cleave

[rapid bronze]

I was like 7th or something on the meters in dragons until the last phase and then just gapped everyone

[naive shoal]

thats basically it

[rapid bronze]

no it's not that bad ST either

[naive shoal]

it's like, definitely better than what it was before

[old glacier]

Do you just play standard slayer on dragons?

[rapid bronze]

yeah

[naive shoal]

but thats not saying it's good single target, at least slayer fury is rn better

[olive nest]

I hate that I can’t track whirlwind when cleave is not talented it screws up the ordering of my cdm icons

[rapid bronze]

barely get any damage on the adds before they collapse as well

all the unethical pad classes blow them up

meanwhile we're dealing with the real threat

and then you cleave the two when they're down and it's orgasmic

[rapid bronze]

idk if it's playing arms for a longer period of time but I did better on vorazius as arms than fury

but anyway it's a bit moot they're close enough to not matter much

looks like thane is getting fucked in the .5 patch though?

[flat willow]

yeah they are obliterating thane for some reason

[olive nest]

Omega slowing it down

[latent moss]

cdr change was needed

same issue as blademasters torment

tc just eats ur rotation

[flat willow]

I think someone snitched that fury was allowed to hit more than 5 targets at once

I know it was one of you

[latent moss]

idk how can anyone enjoy ramp tc ramp tc ramp tc ramp tx

[olive nest]

Has nothing to do with fury being able to snipe add pad faster than the warlocks and mages

[flat willow]

same reason people here enjoy cleave cleave cleave

[latent moss]

same reason they are making it ur next 2 cleaves

[flat willow]

its a big aoe that does a lot of damage

[latent moss]

crushing combo is the only thing that makes our cds feel like something

[olive nest]

I’m glad it’s going down to 2 it’s kinda hur dur cleave until my finger falls off

[latent moss]

also crushing combo isnt 30 seconds

[slow saddle]

Tc was rotation i love it

We called it clappa

[slow saddle]

Just delete chrusin combo imho

[latent moss]

personally i dont understand why tblast and tc do the same amount of damage

i get that they wanted to reduce

rng

but still

tblast feels like nothing

[olive nest]

Base TC should be like half of a TB proc

IMO

[latent moss]

it just extends ava which is huge but still

[latent moss]

nah

me before m+ would agree

but after doing keys I love crushing combo

[latent moss]

i liked s3 tww but it was way too rng i cant lie

ur dmg entirely depended on tblast procs

[olive nest]

Which also stinks

[shadow ibex]

Let it die

[olive nest]

Hard to say what would be good honestly

[latent moss]

current and s3 sucks

something in the middle

[latent moss]

nah

our cds do nothing

no iftk nothing

[shadow ibex]

Remove ravager

[latent moss]

that i do agree with

[shadow ibex]

I would agree i think they are changing cc for no good reason. We need less strictly aoe talents

Not weaker ones

[olive nest]

What’s kinda cool is now we demolish a lot more

I like demolish

[latent moss]

that shit is not making it

[shadow ibex]

Yea it isnt

They will cap it which is great

[latent moss]

ure telling me

[olive nest]

That’s like demolish every 20 seconds lmao

[latent moss]

2 ms crits

are 20s refund

[shadow ibex]

Lmao

[latent moss]

if u cleave with ss

[shadow ibex]

Imagine that man

Just for like 1 hour

Let me have it

After that remove it

[latent moss]

well now it for real wont sync ever maybe they are doing sum with it

[olive nest]

It kinda was in sync now

[latent moss]

it would be cool if they explained something

[shadow ibex]

I think 5 sec cdr works if it replaces cs and is off AM

[olive nest]

With that change it never will be

[shadow ibex]

But that fixes nothing

If demolish = cs with no AM 5 sec makes sense

[naive shoal]

when is the 5 sec cdr thing out?

[shadow ibex]

But why

[naive shoal]

.5?

[latent moss]

ye it was more of a st thing

in aoe they sync

[dire merlin]

GUYS Why do you use cleave on single target?

[latent moss]

demo comes earlier usually

[latent moss]

does more damage than other casts

[latent moss]

yes

[olive nest]

I need cleave in my raid multi build

[latent moss]

hopefully they shoot some aoe talents

[shadow ibex]

Execute them

[olive nest]

Is fatality really that big

Maybe I take cleave

[latent moss]

would be great if they communicated with us a bit

[olive nest]

[dire merlin]

Is cleave stronger than slam on a single target?

[latent moss]

not anymore iirc

apl changed

[shadow ibex]

Only way 5 is making it to live with no cap is if demolish replaces cs

[latent moss]

i dont cleave outside of ravager

on st

[sharp wyvern]

did raidbots get updated already for arms ?

[latent moss]

not sure

[latent moss]

yeah

might be their goal

hot take but reap should be aoe

[dire merlin]

OH I SEE TY

[shadow ibex]

I hate slayer

[sharp wyvern]

i dont have an issue with that but not buffing ST in any way while taking away reap is gonna fuck slayer so hard

[latent moss]

oh for sure

[wet current]

i have a lot less fun with slayer due to rage issues.

[shadow ibex]

Why can't BS be their aoe

Why reap

[latent moss]

if u ask me

[shadow ibex]

Its right thereb

[sharp wyvern]

cause Slayer is the ST spec

for now

[shadow ibex]

May it die a sudden death

[latent moss]

i would replace cleave with ms is a frontal if ss is up and ure cleaving

[shadow ibex]

Hehehe

[latent moss]

and replace apex with ms always crits

[shadow ibex]

I would just like 3 target

Base

[latent moss]

then colo juices the fuck out of ms

[shadow ibex]

Plz

[latent moss]

and slayer juices exe

[latent moss]

i meant like it does full dam to primary + 75% to secondarh + like 30% to everything in front

3t is just outdated in modern wow

community wants 20 target pulls and blizz is listening

[shadow ibex]

i'm ok with keeping up in aoe with an MS that hits like fuck on 3 targets and some other aoe button

If you hit 3+ with MS your next WW fucks or smth like that

lean into the martial prowess

[olive nest]

If ms hits 3 or more targets your next over power shoots out a Dreadnaught line for a morbillion aoe uncapped

That’s assuming baseline sweep

[shadow ibex]

gimme alpha cleave

gameplay

can only be used if hitting 3+ with ww

[thick kelp]

dfs2

[shadow ibex]

but fucked

[latent moss]

gimme blizz

gimme this blizz

[shadow ibex]

would have to rework colossus

might need an MS reset too cuz HS procs kinda add some monkey brain activation fun

[sharp goblet]

this but replace mortal strike with slam

[old glacier]

Weren't we cleaving under 35% or something?

[gentle gyro]

WHO made this?!

[lavish iron]

[sharp goblet]

🙁

[finite nacelle]

Did my first M+ last night

it was a lot of fun

[steep osprey]

Nice

[finite nacelle]

i've never done the mythic stuff

used to just pvp all the time. i think i prefer delves to mythic

[dire hinge]

Can always take socket too! But those boots aren’t bad / can be catalyzed

[polar portal]

If you can convince the tank to do large pulls, M+ can be pretty fun

If you don't it feels like a slog

[lavish iron]

Yeah just went for the myth ones

[latent moss]

me

[fresh mist]

We ant good yet

Any

[rose belfry]

Slayer arms kinda slaps

[polar portal]

Slayer slaps

[fresh mist]

In mythic + ? Cuz I'm so sick of firy

My hands hurt

[rose belfry]

Ye in m plus

I like that we dont do resto druid st dmg with slayer

[steady sigil]

Forgive the possible already asked stupid question but is it worth to catalyst my hero head? got 3 set already, haven't done lfr or normal raid yet but those wont give me the ilvl my current gear is.

[fresh mist]

This is good to see. So I won't be 'trolling' if I spec and play arms pve now

Also should I make crafted weapon

[dim basalt]

Arms does like 30% more aoe than Fury

Its pretty nutty

[fresh mist]

Single target good ?

[dim basalt]

Not really

But the aoe makes up for it

And its not much worse than Fury ST at this point

[fresh mist]

Oh that's good sorry last question depending on vault drop is it worth making the crafted weapon this late

And putting it as mythic crested

[dim basalt]

Its worth it if you dont want to rely on vault rng

[fresh mist]

Yehh rather not highest I'd be pushing raid wise is heroic if I'm lucky

[dim basalt]

In raid the first boss that drops 2h is paladins also

So not reliable either

[sharp goblet]

at this point meaning live or 12.0.5? i feel like I do a lot less ST as arms currently (but more aoe), though fury is more mindless to play

[fresh mist]

Crafted it is then

What stats do u go for on the crafted wep

[dim basalt]

uhh, shouldnt be too far off even now but I could be wrong

Also heavily depends on whether you have a sham or not

[sharp goblet]

yeah, that's fair

windskyfury is hugee

[dim basalt]

Arms without sham feels unplayable

[vapid spire]

Are they doing drugs

[latent moss]

no

arms is insane

[weak gulch]

Even without a shaman?

I’ve been doing fury but with the execute and dev buffs might give arms a go in M+

[latent moss]

i play without shaman

its fine

[tacit crystal]

without shaman it might be unplayable

[latent moss]

just gotta be more careful with rage

[tacit crystal]

imo

not enough dopamine

[latent moss]

aoe is the same with or without

in terms of feel

st is very different tho

[pulsar berry]

arms has the distinction of maybe having the best damage profile for the size of actual pulls this season

since there's not many giga huge pulls that our aoe gets capped on

[latent moss]

arms has no weakness in aoe

its not braindead pad damage

its bursty and has cds perma

[jagged gust]

how far behind is arms in st vs fury in m+ after the buffs, is it just better than fury overall

[pulsar berry]

the st is definitely a lot worse than fury still

in m+

[jagged gust]

like 25%+ worse or

[pulsar berry]

idk the exact numbers but i'd say something like 10-15%

[versed lagoon]

yeah i'd say ~15%

but the AOE makes up for it

and if you got cleave bosses

https://klipy.com/gifs/kisschef

[pulsar berry]

and even then there are a lot of damage amps and your st is REALLY bursty

so on certain fights (seat last boss is the biggest one that comes to mind) if you line up cds with the damage amp you still kinda plow

[granite spindle]

So I gotta be so real rn. Started playing my arms again today. Why in gods name does heroic replace slam and not overpower? Please remove slam already

[versed lagoon]

it's real nice when the triple cleave auto casts it tho

[tacit sandal]

What would be our best dungeon this season?

[pulsar berry]

imo seat and maisara are the best arms dungeons

pit is also pretty good

[versed lagoon]

Nexus too

[pulsar berry]

but arms is literally also just good in every dungeon lol

[median crag]

slayer or colo now in m+ whats king

[pulsar berry]

oh magisters is good too

[granite spindle]

Thats a really good point I hadn't considered

But i feel like autocasting overpower would just feel better anyway since its then buffing the next cleave/mortal

[pulsar berry]

if they start auto casting overpower this spec is going to get gutted into the ground LMAO

that would be WAY too strong

[versed lagoon]

If i had my way i'd just kill slam, make overpower the filler and have tactician be a nasty buff for OP/Heroic strike

but i'm mearly a demolish enjoyer

[granite spindle]

I think I like Slayer more but I still agree

Kill slam

[pulsar berry]

100% i like colossus more but st colossus even in st build is kind of sad

[tacit crystal]

its going up

[pulsar berry]

me like big number on one hit

[granite spindle]

big number is nice

[versed lagoon]

it's the big number + animation + sound combo for me

[torpid pagoda]

yeah whoever decided that the spec most aligned with big sword big number is now a bleed spec is a criminal

[limpid hornet]

Let's turn Paladin and rez Indalamar from the other side

[versed lagoon]

This feelscrafty like a break even

[steep osprey]

Even?

Nah that's a humongous buff lol

[shadow ibex]

Its strictly a buff

[fervent cedar]

More demolish = more good 🙂

[versed lagoon]

ngl i misread the bottom half

i don't really understand that change then

[soft gust]

Significantly more demolish cdr, and a nerf to crushing combo

[versed lagoon]

more ST, but also more AOE even though they said arms overperformed on aoe some?

[chilly hearth]

4/5 cleaves in a single ravager was too good

[shadow ibex]

150% increase of cdr

No big deal

[fervent cedar]

We are trading one fewer cleave for significantly faster demolish cdr

[soft gust]

I think they just want to move some of our damage out of cleave

[fervent cedar]

Good

[steep osprey]

Yeah they should

But this isn't enough

[soft gust]

and this also likely makes ST feel much better, because the odds you actually have demolish up for CS is way higher

[steep osprey]

They'll have to nerf cleave more

[soft gust]

presumably

[steep osprey]

Especially inside colossus

[shadow ibex]

Idt 1 less cast is a big deal tbh

[fervent cedar]

It really isnt

[shadow ibex]

If anything its the most lip service nerf they could've done to cleave

[olive nest]

I think I agree with the before convo that 5 second cdr won’t make it live

[shadow ibex]

There's a ton of other cleave stuff

[olive nest]

Would be wicked fun though

[steep osprey]

I'm expecting more Cleave nerfs

[olive nest]

Just demolish all the time

[shadow ibex]

It doesnt need nerfs

[steep osprey]

Hopefully OAM gets a nerf

[shadow ibex]

Needs less aoe talents

[chilly hearth]

It kinda Is cuz of the implications

[rose ibex]

I don't know why they are gutting slayer so hard only to super buff colossus

[steep osprey]

The difference between Slayer and Colossus is cleave is also an issue that nerfing OAM would fix

[fervent cedar]

The implication that youre getting 1 fewer cleave?

Huh? Lol

[shadow ibex]

I think it should just be baseline

Tbh

[steep osprey]

Why are you acting like this is a done deal?

It's iterative

[shadow ibex]

Ww is just dumb

For arms

Idk why its here

[rose ibex]

Supposedly the patch is greenlit or whatever

[fervent cedar]

Slayer also isn't gutted, we have yet to see what they do for single target

[steep osprey]

Patch is in 3 weeks or so

They still do changes even if the builds are greenlit

[fervent cedar]

If nothing happens for single target then yes slayer is going to suck

[shadow ibex]

playing colo in raid would make this a top 3 expansion of history

[timber trellis]

Hey guys - Is arms now pulling ahead in ST and AOE with todays buffs?

[flat willow]

maybe they are finally doing like every other spec in the game where one spec is strictly superior one patch, then the other the next patch

[rose ibex]

Supposedly it is a "release candidate" whatever that means

[fervent cedar]

Not pulling ahead of ST
Was always very strong in aoe and still is

[flat willow]

i think arms and fury are the only specs where the design is " one aoe one single target "

so now you'll play slayer for m+ and raid one patch, col the next

instead of playing slayer for raid and col for m+

[fervent cedar]

Im down for some colo in raid if they fix our terrible rage gen

[steep osprey]

It's not terrible

[shadow ibex]

fill more globals with demolish

obviously

[steep osprey]

He's right

[shadow ibex]

[chilly hearth]

Slower might stacks, less aoe damage, lower ravager window damage. On a whole run It adds up

When your class Is built around a prio list that wants to add more and more damage multipliers in a short window every global that gets gutted counts

Thats my take, i might be wrong but thats what i think

As i said its kind of a problem
Nothing major but It slows that

[fervent cedar]

I mean it kind of is in pure ST

Unless you have Shaman buff