arms

[brave silo]

They should do stuff like they did with precise shots on hunter with heroic strike - heroic strike GCD is like 0.25 for a quick 1-2 button press

[blissful tree]

the slam triggered by FoB should also has a chance to trigger a HS.

[elder path]

^

Honestly silly that it doesn’t

[flint cloud]

15% sounds not enough for arms

[clever lichen]

[dense sphinx]

far from enough

[candid pecan]

wtf they buffed like every class?

so whats the point of 15%

[clever lichen]

almost

[dense sphinx]

arms dev pretending he did some work

[clever lichen]

they buffed not cause arms is bad, they buff all classes cause warlock and dk was too strong

that cause fury gets buffed too

[elder zealot]

I think one of you guys slept with the warrior dev's wife or something, and now we're all suffering for it. Please behave next time.

[clever lichen]

warrior dev doesnt exist

[dry pine]

cant understand why they would not adress the disparity between ST and aoe though. Didnt feel like I was that far behind on aoe but ST is just atrocious

[smoky sky]

Well i gues we have to be happy arms didnt got nerved i gues …

[dry pine]

gimme bigger MS hits :(((

[clever lichen]

dk dev working his class an at 15 min before work is done he ask gemini "pls some changes to brown bitches"

[candid pecan]

fucking stacks again?

[barren wadi]

Good to see arms got the buff it needed

Devs clueless as usual

[dry pine]

and this still breaks alignment of avatar and CS. not a single thought went into this

[barren wadi]

Yeah im 100% sure they left an AI to tune warrior

[hybrid needle]

UHDK Nerf by 20%
Arms Buff by 15%
Gap still huge

[cobalt lodge]

Those arms buffs are hilarious

[barren wadi]

Execute hits like a wet noodle costs half your rage, mortal strike does less damage than heroic strike proc... not a single ability was tuned

[cobalt lodge]

They 100% are going the WoD route where they just dont want you to play Arms so they can take the entire expansion to redesign arms

[dry pine]

best thing is they left prot pally untouched aswell. they were just as broken as bear and are most likely doing the same ST dmg as us still.

[barren wadi]

They buffed survival hunter as well

[clever lichen]

bro they got all tww to redesign arms

last time i spec to arms not for a "rofl" was df 3-4 season xd

[barren wadi]

At this point doing a copypaste of mop classic warrior would be infinitely better than whatever the fuck they have cooked up for this expansion

[blissful tree]

with the fury buff arms needs like 45 % aura buff to get on par i guess

[barren wadi]

Nothing short of a 50% buff to some abilities ontop of the aura buff as a minimum would cut it

Guess I'm going back to survival hunter 🤷‍♂️

[tropic eagle]

Surv is so hillarious Im having a blast on it as an alt

[hasty pumice]

"omg arms needs a buff"

Gets a huge buff to the apex and 15% aura

[barren wadi]

Looks like it also has a semi sentient dev assigned to it unlike warrior

[tropic eagle]

Best thing about the state of arms, made me try new fun thing after 14 years

[hasty pumice]

"nah guys"

[full obsidian]

Is this patch out?

[plucky fern]

the problem is, and thats why everyone is dooming, even 30% aura buff probably wasnt enough, and they gave us only 15% AND didnt address the biggest issue which is single target at all

[spring vale]

Next reset

[plucky fern]

well at least fury got 10% which should be enough to bring it to a decent level

so i guess its another fury season (who would have guessed)

[full obsidian]

Is just sad

[barren wadi]

The apex talent buff also doesn't really have much impact as its not going to line up with cooldowns anyways

[pliant crypt]

even for fury is not enough because they buff all classes so we are at the same spot even arms and fury

[plucky fern]

apex is good but its not as big as some people might assume
im pretty sure you cant get 5 HS procs in 30 seconds
so you never get the full 15% value out of it

it will be like 9-12% dmg increase during CS window

which is like, i dunno, 3-4% more overall damage?

[barren wadi]

Less

Probably less

[plucky fern]

and you need a talent point for that

[hasty pumice]

Still pretty good for M+ and colossus' damage profile

[untold trench]

15% buff on the spec that has been winning every DPS meter shown in here? Crazy

[plucky fern]

it is pretty good, i didnt deny it

its just not enough

[hasty pumice]

I do think arms has a solid chance at being the m+ spec to go for high keys or on comps with lots of prio damage

[tropic eagle]

Dont worry they will nerf it on Monday again

[hasty pumice]

Especially since slayer fury also lost more AoE procs

[untold trench]

Thane lost nothing

[full obsidian]

Dmg decreased by 8% inc

[hasty pumice]

Yeah but Thane didn't have the same prio damage as slayer

[untold trench]

Thane was the spec either way for m+, Fury just got stronger

[blissful tree]

the devs must be WAY off beforehand if they change an 4/4 apex talent that late.

[full obsidian]

Arms players were a lil ok with the 15 knock it down bois

[latent moss]

not sure about that

historically slayer had much better st which is why it was a lot better for prio

but this time around they are quite close

[tropic crest]

The fact that there will be class tuning on the 17th doesn’t mean there won’t be further class tuning, or that there couldn’t be additional class tuning in the following weeks. So far, this is a step forward.

[untold trench]

I dont think the devs even test most apex talents, ngl

[full obsidian]

Its not so much about the tuning its how they did it

[hasty pumice]

No, you have to doom endlessly. Even if arms got ahead, there'd still be dooming cause we wouldn't be the unholy DK or whatever op spec there is

Never stop dooming

[full obsidian]

Obvious lack of understanding of the underlying issue

[tired pilot]

[oak flame]

If you hope for another buff forget it. once they do an aura buff they don’t buff again

[tired pilot]

r u guys okay?

checking in

[full obsidian]

Its mixed in here

[untold trench]

Got a solid bump up, will expect another bump next round if the burst window dont break something in the HC raid

[tired pilot]

happy for yall then, i hope you get another buff

goodbye

[arctic hearth]

Happy for what? Compared to other dps we are basicly even more behind and they didnt fix any of the specs actual problems😂🙃 fucking clowns

[full obsidian]

The more i sit with my self the more annoyed im gettin

[tropic eagle]

heres a free tip that will help you with life. If you dont enjoy doing something, find something more enjoyable

[neat yoke]

I started reading the tuning changes from top to bottom and when I arrived at balance druids 20% flat damage increase I started to wonder how much they would have to give arms if the laser chicken needs 20% and somehow they thought 15% was fine

[tame gust]

im kinda mad cuz wtf? when it comes to other buffs for other classes they write like 20 sentences but when it comes to warr its just a damage increase

[lusty brook]

yeah looking at those ret pally buffs like.. o.O meanwhile for arms:

[oak flame]

Does the last point of apex still reduce CS cooldown?

[dense sphinx]

no

[oak flame]

Thats nice tho

Now we just need another 50% aura buff and we gucci

[neat yoke]

If I go to a restaurant and order carbonara and the carbonara sucks I'm not getting the carbonara again but I'm still going to say that I'm annoyed that the carbonara didn't taste good

[tame gust]

lmao

[full obsidian]

Been usin this since i was 8

I cant bring my self to go with anythin else

[tropic eagle]

yeah but will you be annoyed over it for weeks? cause that just aint healthy my man

[dense sphinx]

if im a starving african child why are u giving me a single piece of candy

IM STILL STARVING

[tropic eagle]

Maybe you should find food instead of complaining I guess idk what to tell you

[full obsidian]

[neat yoke]

No, but to really run this metaphor into the dirt I just went back to the restaurant and the chef promised me they changed the recipe so I tried it again and then it still sucked. That's a whole new wave of annoyance and not the same frustrated feeling.

Im playing monk right now and having fun.

[tropic eagle]

we aint retri paladins that make up a lot of the playerbase so we cant just go on strike to get changes. Face the reality and adapt or stay bitter its your choice ofc

[full obsidian]

Id rather stay bitter

[tropic eagle]

see, the difference between me and you is Id never go back to the restaurant if the carbonara was that bad

[dense sphinx]

not in wow's context

[tropic eagle]

hey man thats completely fine, I hope you have fun doing it

[full obsidian]

I am having fun doin it

[sharp tendon]

Wel i go main ret not arms

[full obsidian]

Dont betray your origin

Stay true to the cause

[neat yoke]

They do generally make good food though. I like their lasagna.

[tropic eagle]

I was playing arms since tbc man

sometimes you gotta learn when to let go

[full obsidian]

Nah fuk dat

Been goin since vanilla aint gon change it

[tropic eagle]

power to you and good luck

[full obsidian]

Even when my account got stolen, straight back into it

Ill make it work

What stage am i at

[arctic hearth]

Just dont pug and play without dmg meter. Ez

[full obsidian]

Ill host them damn keys

[dense sphinx]

see we can move to another restaurant

that's fine

doesn't mean we can't still talk shit about the dogshit chef who cant cook

[summer niche]

do we now take the 4th apex talent? 15% is almost like good buff lol

[tropic eagle]

you can talk all the shit you want it just gets very bitter if you do it for weeks

[dense sphinx]

there's no bitterness

i just need to hammer it into the chef who think's he's cooking good

[tropic eagle]

bitterness turns into hate, hate turns into agony and theres a whole rabbit hole for that you know what I mean

[dense sphinx]

cos any blind person could have seen arms need more than what it got

[verbal jacinth]

Arms fixed. Giga spec

[tropic eagle]

gave up years ago to try and change something about this specs design

[summer niche]

why are they getting the 20%+ treatment while we were sitting in the dirt?

[simple lintel]

Is the Apex talent change in addition to the current 4 point bonus or a replacement?

[dense sphinx]

replace

[summer niche]

"Blizzard has posted class tuning that will go live with Season 1 starting March 17th." arte those changes here now or coming on season 1 start? can someone clarify?

[dense sphinx]

read what u typed

[main rover]

He is def a warrior

[candid pecan]

never change Xufine, we warrior, we smash

[summer niche]

yea HAHAHHAHAHA

I just realized

zug zug

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284226322585354241/1413167107641708664/GIF_20250904_152124_523.gif

[dense sphinx]

smh

[jade flame]

is warrior now good both in pvp and pve?

[dense sphinx]

nope

[summer niche]

Warrior always superior but sadly no not good :c

our mentality is what makes us great not our dps numbers

[rough pewter]

patch saved us or nah?

[dense sphinx]

nowhere near enough

[summer niche]

saved fury maybe but not arms

15% is not enough when we're already like 30% behind (coping)

[rough pewter]

it is an abuse againts us at this point

[elder zealot]

I feel like if they just reverted those big 20% nerfs to MS and Execute, we'd be mostly fine

[rough pewter]

we should play yellow arms warrior then

[elder zealot]

Not sure why those even happened in the first place

[summer niche]

https://i.imgflip.com/a1vjj2.gif

[dire dust]

Guys our tier 4p, MS and cleave extends the duration of CS by 1 sec, good synergy with the last apex talent point that was reworked. Could be something there? Bigger CS window for us

[dense sphinx]

cs window stronger yes

doesnt mean we are gonna do as much as other specs

[limber apex]

I dunno why y'all complaining arms is pretty fun

[dire dust]

With more gear like more haste, we get CS back quicker with anger management right? Maybe guys im going full cope

[candid pecan]

will we ever press Heroic strikes 5 times between CS casts?

[dry breach]

is this arms buff like 25 - 30% with the apec change?

[candid pecan]

I hit the dummy and got 2-3 only

[thick kelp]

ni

[torn rivet]

your sorry ass can't comprehend objectiveness with subjectiveness. It may be subjectively "fun" to you, but it's dogshit in any way you look at it compared to any other spec

[dense sphinx]

% wise we needed at least 40-45% to be brought up to median?

[thick kelp]

we will probably not even end up taking the 4th apex

[torn rivet]

sorry fellow brother @limber apex im still mad bcuz of blizzard

[candid pecan]

okay

great

[dire dust]

This would be very sad yeah

[candid pecan]

I mean go hit a dummy

go now, averaging 2 max 3 HS casts between CS casts

not to mention we need to lose 1 talent point to pick the last apex

[thick kelp]

its competing with fatality for a point and rn its about neck and neck with it for pure ST

[candid pecan]

ok so we will prolly take it for m+ for some good ol meme spec shenanigans

[dire dust]

Our 2p gives another 5% to CS debuff, so im hoping with these changes our CS window is just much bigger

[candid pecan]

they could have just copy pasted the fury one, Avatar grants X warfare stacks

5 stacks lets say

[tawdry quail]

Are the buffs enough?

[candid pecan]

no

[thick kelp]

it will bring us to about 86k give or take

so still a solid 20k behind the middle

[candid pecan]

more than prot war right? cause that got buffed by 10% too

[thick kelp]

barely more

[candid pecan]

[limber apex]

I don't get why people are mad about Slam ?? Its fun to spend rage on it

You click slam and your character goes wham. Isn't that fun ?

[tropic eagle]

wham? more like plonk

[dense sphinx]

ask your mom

[limber apex]

I saw people whining about Slam, so weird

[candid pecan]

we're rage starved and undertuned

Slam is okay, HS is great

[limber apex]

Yeah I agree the dps is kinda sucky

[topaz python]

because slam is like pressing hamstrung as a filler
it doesn't feel good to press

[limber apex]

But the class plays okay

[tawdry quail]

They ruined the class and slapped a small aura buff onto it

[dense sphinx]

idm pressing slam but the rage is not ok

[limber apex]

Hamstring is great as well, just a nice thick slow

[tawdry quail]

For now Yh, but they bout to remove mortal wounds from cleave and remove rts procs from sd

[limber apex]

I hope we can get some more buttons to click and rage fixed

[topaz python]

rage would fix itself season 2

[tropic eagle]

more buttons? whos gonna tell him

[limber apex]

Do we get more buttons soon ? Pog

I love me some more buttons

[plucky fern]

is this guy ragebaiting or completely clueless

[tropic eagle]

yes... in the expansion of pruning and simplicity we will surely get more buttons mate

[proud trout]

This is like 2012 quality trolling

[limber apex]

I didn't notice much pruning on my arms warrior tbh , but I didn't play tww that much

I mean most if not all the skills I remember are still here lol

[tropic eagle]

arms was one of the few specs that somehow ended up on the more buttons side

[limber apex]

Right, that's cool

[tawdry quail]

How’s the apex r4 talent change?

Buffing CS dmg by 15%

If HS even procs enough times

[lusty slate]

Everything is hell to manage , desyncs , bad design , really annoying and does no dmg on top of that

Not always more buttons = better ( blizz is wierd man )

[plucky fern]

more like 9%, you are never getting 5 hs procs between CS casts

especially in aoe

cause cleave doesnt proc it

[tawdry quail]

Thought so

[wooden lava]

dude someone on the forums said our dev was AI

[tawdry quail]

So we go from F tier to C tier?

[wooden lava]

blizz has been using AI for its Customer Service

what would stop them from using it for game balancing

[plucky fern]

the truth is

even ai would have made a better job

at balancing

[wooden lava]

would it though?

cos we've seen cases of AI just pulling shit out of nowhere

[lusty slate]

True

[atomic mountain]

am i seeing right taht arms got legit nothing today?

[plucky fern]

ai WOULD analyse feedback from players, WOULD analyse sims and data from beta

but arms dev doesnt

[wooden lava]

you're assuming a really powerful and sophisticated AI model exists

[oak kite]

if anyone says oh dont worry you are balanced around your tier set i will 360 no scope punch

[plucky fern]

nah, just regular sonet or some bullshit, thats literally how ai works it searches information for you

[wooden lava]

what I'm assuming is some moron is prompting AI for changes and applying them willy nilly

AI is only as good as their users

and most users are fucking hapless morons

who don't connect contextual evidence otgether

our dev is definitely one of those

[lusty slate]

Based on numers alone if u compare somethink top like unholy and arms bottom , u cant just add 15% dps , even middle balance got 20%

is bs for real

[wooden lava]

idk how blizzard's teams are set up together

but they likely have a collaborative effort

for the balancing teams

[lusty slate]

Between what , the dev and the wall

[wooden lava]

between the toilet and dev

[lusty slate]

It makes no sense

[wooden lava]

I assume there's a balancing lead

and maybe people who are more familiar with certain classes so they can work on it together

I think Skullflower is still a DK dev

[plucky fern]

literally one query and it already generated a better tuning than blizzard

[wooden lava]

12.8k dps?????

this is what I mean

AI literally pulls shit out of nowhere

and has these insane schizophrenic episodes

you know why the apex talent change seemed acceptable

because an actual human being proposed it here

and it ended up being sent up the pipeline to become a change

[plucky fern]

yeah now we know where this new apex talen came from

literally ai shit

[wooden lava]

it's a genuinely good change

it's what i would expect as a nice little buff

if arms was tuned correctly

it's objectively nice

[candid pecan]

[lusty slate]

Yes , if numbers were good

[plucky fern]

i mean yeah sure it pulled numbers out of nowhere but in general it did good analysis of current state
if i made like 3-5 more queries and gave it relevant sim information it would probably come out with a good tuning

[wooden lava]

gameplay wise I mean

[plucky fern]

maybe 10 minutes of my time

[wooden lava]

numbers wise, it's all shit

that's my complain

it's just nonsensical stupid numbers iwthout any thought given to it

the apex talent should've been 5% each hit

up to 3 times

same total value, but more realistic

[tawdry quail]

I like that

[smoky kayak]

just fyi this is based on some very preliminary sims we put together and I'm pretty sure they're not totally correct 😅

[wooden lava]

idk how we could even hope of getting 4 heroic strikes between each CS

much less 5

[smoky kayak]

you don't, it's just stack overflow

[wooden lava]

what does that mean?

like a buffer area in case i get insane rng?

[smoky kayak]

Yes; on average, you should get 3 stacks between each CS

• the buff goes up to 5 to ensure that if you do hold CS for some reason, or you just go on a legendary proc streak, any extra casts aren't wasted

[wooden lava]

ah that makes sense

[candid pecan]

I trust the war big brains, even if its not totally correct, it might not be off by a lot.

[wooden lava]

so their intent was for it to really be up to 9% increase to cs? on average?

[smoky kayak]

it actually is very well reasoned design, and they do it with a bunch of stacking/consuming buffs now (slaughtering strikes, for example)

[wooden lava]

yeah i fw it heavy

and in any other circumstances, if arms was stable

[smoky kayak]

on average yeah, keep in mind that CS has like a 70% uptime so that +9% is actually pretty respectable for a single talent point

[wooden lava]

everyone would actually be very happy with it

yeah it's the kind of changes I was hoping to see

[plucky fern]

70% uptime? how is that

[barren wadi]

Its not so much the apex im upset about its the missing tuning they just slapped a bandaid aura buff on the spec and call it the day

[flint cloud]

Are we really able to reach 5stacks ？

[wooden lava]

and it took frozenbozo or someone else suggesting it here

[rose ibex]

Do you think for the changes and with 4pc it might be worth dropping avatar for apex?

[wooden lava]

not from our dev

[dire dust]

Anger management and 4p

[shadow ibex]

cleave ST didnt change correct?

[smoky kayak]

read like 5 lines up

[plucky fern]

ah yeah i forgot about tier set

[smoky kayak]

I'm fairly certain that the apex should come out to around 4% or so, which is surely not enough to bring up Arms to the level it needs to be, but it actually is a very respectable amount for a single talent point

just for the sake of comparison, it would replace Fatality, which is worth ~2.5%

[plucky fern]

did big brains already figure out how much of an aura buff was needed to bring arms to a decent state?

[candid pecan]

I see, okay

[smoky kayak]

well it depends on where this apex lands

and that's almost certainly what Blizzard is waiting for too - they'll reevaluate over heroic week and do some more tuning

[wooden lava]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-clueless-clueless-emote-wojak-disturbed-gif-24266075

another tier of playing fury only in raid

[candid pecan]

hey atleast we'll be playing thane in raid.

[smoky kayak]

I wouldn't expect Arms to jump to the top of the meters, simply because that's not how Blizz does balancing - they like to reduce the top end a little and bring up the bottom end a little, but they don't like to completely retier the meta after launch

[plucky fern]

fury only in all content*

[rose ibex]

There is always hope

[wooden lava]

if this recent tuning is any indicator of their balancing chops, the future looks grim for Arms

[elder zealot]

That's true; we'll probably have to live with these changes for a few weeks, but there will most likely be additional changes coming in the future

[wooden lava]

prepare to be double amputated

[vale elk]

Copium

[subtle plover]

Theres a chance theres additional changes by the time the patch comes out on tuesday right

[elder zealot]

I don't know about that one; probably a week or two after heroic

[cosmic halo]

But with all the slayer nerf is it viable ?

[plucky fern]

nah, but as Archi said there will be more tuning after HC week so we might hope for that

[vale elk]

You are just the number one fan cause you are the only one

[smoky kayak]

that's not till 12.0.5, roughly 2 months from now
and I'm certain that there will be more PTR changes between now and then

[candid pecan]

there will be additional tuning before m+/myth raid opens

[dire dust]

These notes are for the 17th and theres another tuning pass on the 24th

[halcyon valve]

Prepare to get 10% dmg reduction on the 24th

[untold pewter]

I doubt it man
Theh didn't even properly look at us
We didn't even get spell specific tuning they just slapped a bandaid 15% that doesn't close the wound

[subtle plover]

I thought they sometimes add a few additional changes when the patch hits

[cosmic halo]

So for the 17, slayer still shit ?

[halcyon valve]

Its always the same
Aura buff or nothing

[wooden lava]

I picked this name for the irony of it like 14 months ago

I never thought it'd get this bad

[halcyon valve]

Its been this bad for a while tbh

[wooden lava]

I didn't know that I was predicting the future

[mossy gazelle]

With this balance patch, they will have to rework arms warrior again for the 500th times next season

So i came up with some novel ideas :

Warriors don't like slam; so slam now deals the same damage as mortal strike per rage spent. It also applies hamstring effect(dazed) because you slam your opponent's head hard.

Rend applies Deep Wounds so it's simple one button bleed application

You no longer throw Spear into oblivion; It works like a Storm Bolt and even follows mage's blink. Targets are ensnared while speared.

Warriors can now use Condemn. Make execute fun again.

[halcyon valve]

No

[misty bridge]

Go back to the shire Gandalf

[stoic palm]

guys we got a buff <33

[rare kite]

rework arms again???? arms has been basically the same forever

[plucky fern]

they didnt property rework this spec even once
they had nice ideas at the start of beta but then reverted all of it

we are kinda playing same tww arms but with gutted numbers

and sks is gone

thats it, the 'rework'

[wooden lava]

https://tenor.com/view/sillycat-gif-16450871626103949888

[untold pewter]

Slam is fine, it's just a filler
Condemn sucks
We don't care about spear
Rend applying deep wounds is solid after cleave no longer does it in .5

[olive nest]

[halcyon valve]

Rend applying deep wounds is dumb as hell because thats 1 ability applying 2 bleeds then. Just buff rend dmg at that point

[plucky fern]

my change i would want is delete slam and remove cooldown from mortal strike, adjust numbers accordingly
gameplay would be twice as smooth from one change already

[olive nest]

Condemn owns

[untold pewter]

Honestly removing dw from cleave is dumb as hell

[wooden lava]

Cleave no longer applying DW is such a needless nerf

[olive nest]

[wooden lava]

ironically, the last time warrior was this bad was in CN

where we had to run Condemn

[untold pewter]

Yep
The condemn season

[tight wing]

CN?

[untold pewter]

We remember

[dire dust]

CN was very bad yeah

[wooden lava]

Archi was saying early wod had some horrific iteration of arms as well

[median crag]

did they attach on the 15% buff i swear i didnt see that when they first uploaded it

[untold pewter]

I miss ancient aftershock
I wish that's what Demolish was

[dire dust]

The tier after tho 😉

[rare kite]

yea only difference then was that fury was bad as well. fury looking pretty decent in midnight

[wooden lava]

it was all bad man

and then progging SLG

[tight wing]

Oh nath duh

[marsh hamlet]

Hello, got into WoW recently and leveling a Warrior, I guess I should not go with Arms considering what you're saying here

[shadow ibex]

CN was worst we've ever been probably

across the board

cuz fury was bad as well

[untold pewter]

Yeah, so far

[shadow ibex]

wasnt just arms was warrior period

[wooden lava]

and for some goddamn reason, Denathrius would parry from his back

[steady sigil]

This, big numbers and the occasional one shot in pvp

[shadow ibex]

the msot fun we had in CN

was uncovering the auto attack bug

[wooden lava]

lmfao

[shadow ibex]

[lusty slate]

Wasnt s1 shadowlands arms good ?

[wooden lava]

no bro

[untold pewter]

No

[dire dust]

In pvp

[shadow ibex]

it was competing with fury for the worst dps in the game

[dire dust]

In pve it was very very bad

[rare kite]

you might be thinking of s2. s2 arms was very very good

[wooden lava]

it was like getting fisted by a cactus

[lusty slate]

Dont really remember

[wooden lava]

both specs were so awful

I played fury for sludgefist

and half of my cooldowns falling outside of his dmg amp phase

[lusty slate]

Maybe was s2 , i remeber ot was good in shadowlands thou

[wooden lava]

NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE

[untold pewter]

We were worthless
It was a season most folks were bringing prot warrior for the buff instead of a dps warrior (and not because prot was awesome)

[shadow ibex]

the best thing you could do for your raid as a warrior in CN

was go DK

OP raid CD that was very relevant for prog with AMZ

and just s tier dmg

[wooden lava]

not to mention insane dps

[dire dust]

We went condemn at the start then we had to switch to Ancient aftershock, yeah both fury and arms were terrible. Thats easily the worst i seen warrior since i started playing

[wooden lava]

at least now we have fury to escape like refugees to

[shadow ibex]

if they dont fix cleave ST im gonna shelf this shit

im not trying to push keys and deal with colossus ST cursedness

[untold pewter]

In the past few seasons blizz has been disregarding Arms but Fury has been always solid/good at least

Same now on live

[wooden lava]

it's like escaping a war-torn country to a better life, but you can't even help the people left behind

[dire dust]

They just need to fix the ST, i think colossus aoe will surprise us

[shadow ibex]

its always been an aoe bot

that isnt a surprise at all

[untold pewter]

Aoe is ok idk about "surprise"

[wooden lava]

wasn't the only reason arms was even played in MFO was to cheese aoe fights w/ colossus

and that was during farm

[untold pewter]

Just during farm

Though i did play arms for prog and it was... acceptable

[smoky kayak]

tuning talk is so far removed from what you're doing you shouldn't think about it one bit

in fact, I would highly recommend not even looking at the discord until you've been max level for a week or two

[shadow ibex]

i think thats a hard sell for anything past soul hunter

forge w/e as well

but that might depend on how early

[marsh hamlet]

Why not, I'd not want to end up with a class that is underperforming

[smoky kayak]

because tuning is a revolving door

especially this early in a content cycle, it changes every couple weeks, the people on top are always different, the people on bottom are always different, and absolutely none of it is predictable in any way

[marsh hamlet]

so just play what i enjoy and do not give a damn about u guys?

[rare kite]

chances are whatever you pick will change anyway. if you happen to pick something that gets stacked in rwf then it will most likely get nerfed

[dreamy sandal]

This is my exact reaction to this tuning

[tight wing]

https://tenor.com/view/simpon-sideshow-bob-advertisement-mayor-prison-gif-23342142

[rare kite]

never know what's gonna end up strong

[hallow vale]

Play what you will not get bored queing content with.

[smoky kayak]

if you want to enjoy the game, do what you want and never look at any performance metric ever

[untold pewter]

We`re a weekend guild so we usually do not get CE until after the raid buffs go up and damage becomes somewhat irrelevant
But also I'm never bottom so it's "acceptable" within our team

Just more effort for less damage but at least not being a dead weight

Right now I'd feel like a dead weight going Arms until the following week when they give us another 10%

[halcyon valve]

Yuh

[wooden lava]

imo you can give it a try and see if it's to your liking

the stuff we're talking about is really only relevant to higher end stuff

[marsh hamlet]

The thing is that it's quite fun and even more engaging than playing fury at this point

But I also want to be able to do the high end content at some point of my wow journey

[wooden lava]

by the time you get there, arms will most likely be more than enough

[untold pewter]

Just play it mate, also chances are they will continuously buff us week after week for a little while until we're "alright"
You'll soon find that this discord is actually one of the sweatier ones
The average player that speaks up here is a CE raider and so forth

Tuning won't trouble you for a while

[shadow ibex]

Unfortunate how often we find our favorite spef here

[wooden lava]

yeah, pretty much most of us who are vocal about arms play the game at a high level

for you, the matter of tuning wont matter as much

and at a baseline, arms is not necessarily unfun

[tight wing]

Yeah I just leveled recently and I found that I could hold my own, so if you find it fun play it. You’ll do better than if you switch to a spec you don’t find fun

[untold pewter]

All that said, being able to jump to fury and even to protection as you see fit is a huge boon
That's just my opinion as someone who does not like alts (and pretty much does not enjoy playing any other class in this game)

So if you want to deep dive into warrior, might as well learn all specs later down the line, it can be quite fun

Especially protection, honestly, huge help for doing mythic+

[marsh hamlet]

Thanks for this guys, did not know how to take all this

[tight wing]

At the end of the day, it’s a game you pay for and no one should influence your decisions, it’s just meant for fun

[smoky kayak]

unless you're doing very tip top of the scale stuff, which as a new player you are very far off from, I would recommend not caring at all about tuning and balance for quite some time

[tight wing]

This kinda stuff doesn’t matter unless you’re in the top 1% anyway so

[lusty slate]

Sucks for ppl doing early prog , but for fun dosent matter , true words

[untold pewter]

I'd say you don't have to worry about it unless you're either pushing for M+ title OR playing on a HOF (Hall of Fame) or better guild

[marsh hamlet]

Now I just need to know how raids and all those dungeons work like before I want to get into tanking, heard it's more responsible role than dps

[tight wing]

There IS a point where this becomes untrue, but we’re not even close to that point yet

[lusty slate]

Im not into hof , but i still wanna top dps in my guild , also pushing for m+ title

[untold pewter]

It is but don't get discouraged
The best way to learn (imo) is to play as DPS first
Watch what your tank does
Then do the same (if you thought it was solid)

You'll then learn that this wasn't the best way but it gets you going at the start
Afterwards, you read some routing guides and tanking guides for the particular dungeons/raid bosses on youtube and what not

[smoky kayak]

I mean I'd call it more like top 5-10%, but that's still several thousand people; a new player has an extremely long way to climb before getting there

[tight wing]

I’d say hold off tanking until you get a better feel for the game, it’s not super easy and people can be jacknapes about it if you don’t know something

[untold pewter]

Sure but that's you wanting to be top DPS in your guild
Realistically you could play arms and still get CE anyway
And probably not be a dead weight anyway (assuming you're at least doing very very well on Arms)

For title, yes, like I said

[marsh hamlet]

Yeah exactly my thinking

[untold pewter]

It's not that difficult though
Tanking is mostly learning fundamentals, by which I mean things that apply to all tanks in the game

Then you just learn how to play prot

And frankly, that's achievable rather quickly once you put your mind into it
Plenty of guides
Youtube tutorials, etc

[carmine flower]

I dont think ppl are gonna be picking up arms in pugs

[shadow ibex]

Get enough gear and IO and the world is your oyster

[feral breach]

The parasocial aspect of tanking is way harder than tanking itself

[tight wing]

Que as fury, swap to arms lol

[still fox]

short question: /cast [@player] Ravager they change this?

[swift flame]

yer its targetted now

so u cant @player u just cast at ur current target

[still fox]

kk ah

[swift flame]

had the same problem in prepatch thought my ravager was just broken

then after a week i remembered i can read the tooltip it wont hurt me

[shadow ibex]

Logging in and juggling whispers

[safe island]

15% buff? aint 51%?

[feral breach]

You did something wrong that everyone else did aswell??? Straight to gulag

[swift flame]

another 15% buff will be shipped when mythic comes out

i have read the mandate of heaven

[tight wing]

Gets nerfed by 70%

[swift flame]

blizzard will be held accountable if such a fate were to pass

[charred timber]

Even though Unholy Death Knights received a 20% nerf, they still seem to be about 1.5 times stronger than Arms Warriors.

[dense sphinx]

blizzard accountable? since when?

[swift flame]

since i stepped up mate.

[tight wing]

Oh I just realized your name LOL

[swift flame]

honestly i just want them to buff mortal strike by 100%

if i see big mortal strike crits i can be content with hanging with the feral druids and survival hunters

[dense sphinx]

bro

feral and surv are up there now

we aint hanging with them

[swift flame]

up there for the 5 people that play them

they are not making waves i fear ...

[tight wing]

I’ve seen quite a few actually, it surprised me

[swift flame]

tbf feral is pretty buzzing right now bcos from my limited understanding boomkin has been in the bin

[verbal jacinth]

Surv kinda cranks

I've been having fun with it, it's like a simpler arms.

[signal oak]

Feral was sitting at like 106k and they got a 6% buff

[jagged cliff]

I agree for the 100% MS dam buff, would make us do a bit more than tank damage in ST

[umbral badger]

yo guys how fast does simulationcraft usually come out with the new numbers

[signal oak]

they gunna crank

[swift flame]

usually pretty quick

[tight wing]

I dislike where it’s at rn with the extra techy feel, but that’s just me

[umbral badger]

neeed to see the new simulationcraft numbers

[swift flame]

at the very least should be ready on/day after reset

[dense sphinx]

i think this is updated since dk is at normal levels

[verbal jacinth]

Just put 15 % on the last numbers, and then eyeball the other buff at like 1-2%. Scientifically accurate

[tight wing]

Arms not even on it LOL

[dense sphinx]

arms will be above prot

[swift flame]

variance on enhancement is very funny

[umbral badger]

yea fact that arms is not even on it does not help xd

[swift flame]

if you roll a nat 20 you can be as good as frost mage

[dense sphinx]

look at feral

[tribal obsidian]

What does the line after the bar mean? Im noob

[dense sphinx]

stonks

variance

[tribal obsidian]

Ao bigger variance more inconsistent results?

[swift flame]

means ur playing a lottery spec

[dense sphinx]

the thick solid bar is showing the mean

[tight wing]

More proc based

[umbral badger]

also, look where is DK even after the 20% nerf, i said it dks will be having a field day knowing the nerf was 20% only

[oak kite]

how much was our tier set dps gain? i swear there was a spread sheet here somewhere

[dense sphinx]

the line shows low/high end

[swift flame]

there are always winners and losers every patch and unholy will stay winning

[umbral badger]

still, 36% difference from top to bottom is sadge

blizzard concept of balancing sucks

[swift flame]

it is a pretty bad range but im sure in a few weeks time it will be reduced

they have done a pretty good job in the last few expansions of keeping it pretty close

[umbral badger]

it's not hard to put it in the range of 10%-20%

objectively easy

[cyan pasture]

It isn't. Not for DH at least, devourer is 111K havoc is 110

[verbal jacinth]

ST balancing has been pretty good for a lot of seasons, I'm sure it'll be fine now.

[dense sphinx]

wfr gonna be brew + protwar

and no dps war

[verbal jacinth]

Saying balancing this many specs and variables is objectively easy is a wild take.

[plucky fern]

Prob bdk still better than pwar in raid, 5k dps is meaningless

[umbral badger]

yea i am assuming ppl found incomplete sims

[umbral badger]

i said 20% range, that's a big range so yes it is easy to be this wrong.

it is not hard for the team to look at "stormbringer arcane mage" doing 38% lower than the top spec and give it another 5% or 10% aura buff

in one way or another

[verbal jacinth]

Why do you think they are doing balance patches

[swift flame]

you cant always just do aura buffs tho

they have to be mindful of m+ performance as well

and they already struggle with that

[umbral badger]

do you think a class that's doing this low ST exists in m+ usually ?

[thick kelp]

stormbringer arcane mage

[umbral badger]

it literally almost never happens that class with no ST is accepted in m+ competitively

[swift flame]

im saying if you buff them by 20% it can do that yes

[tight wing]

Tbf we do have pretty good AoE

[verbal jacinth]

They have almost two weeks before realy competitive content comes out, it'll be fine.

[dense sphinx]

its not hard to just buff ST abilities

lmao

[umbral badger]

no competitive m+ team wants a dps team taht can't take down a boss

look, i am not saying balancing classes is easy, i am saying to make the gab less than 35% is easy.

[swift flame]

im thinking that considering the scale of changes that were made class wise and deadlines its understandable the balance is a little out of whack at this current point in time

[umbral badger]

it is better to do random buffing and later when you come up with proper way to fix the class do targeted buffs and nerfs "EXACTLY" like what htey did with retri

[tight wing]

That assumes they actually Test it -_-

[dense sphinx]

not really no

its not like all specs were within 15k dps of each other and we're crying about being 5k lower

we were WAY off

[umbral badger]

i would agree with you 100% if it was "a little" out of wack, 35%-38% from top to botto mis a bit difference

[fresh spire]

we still are way off

[dense sphinx]

yes

but somehow blizz thinks 15% is enough

its an actual joke

[fresh spire]

they wanted to see how the apex change plays out for sure

we will get more buffs next wek

[verbal jacinth]

Maybe it is, I'm sure arms will scale with gear.

[umbral badger]

a classs that is 35% off will always be stigmatized hard

[verbal jacinth]

[fresh spire]

apex at a base value looks ok. but looks like we end up losing battlelord for it

sims are currently broken, looks like baseline CS isn't applying any damage amps currently

So will explain why sims are even lower until they get amended

[tight wing]

What’s battle lord do again?

[fresh spire]

ms reset from op and rage cost reduction

[umbral badger]

i mean we were not giving up battlelord before, we won't now.

[tight wing]

Oh cool

[dense sphinx]

no shot we are giving up battlelord

lmao

u wanna press more slam?

[tight wing]

I’ve never used it LOL

[fresh spire]

battelord is around a 1.4% talent

Fatal is 2.5%

[tight wing]

I need to adjust my ST build I think

[fresh spire]

Swap barbaric for Stance mastery on ST

[umbral badger]

i mean the problem with fatal is that the 2 points before it are completely useless @fresh spire

[fresh spire]

not for slayer

[umbral badger]

ahh you talking complete ST

[fresh spire]

battlelord will die regardless when .5 hits and reap is removed from MS

[tight wing]

How is fatal so high, if you need to hit exe for cdr every SD?

[solemn blaze]

Is this true? Did we get a 15% buff?

[umbral badger]

well, i assume for colossus you can throw ravager/bladestorm in the trash

[fresh spire]

popping 1 stack or 5 stacks is the same, as long as they get popped

[tight wing]

Oh

I guess I read it wrong then

[umbral badger]

also is execute doing something for slayer atm ? xd i see it doing half of slam's dmg i feel sick as colossus lol

[tight wing]

Cool, I’ll have to start using it lol

[fresh spire]

deep wounds is a thing, its rage efficient in slayer due to the extra amps it gets from the hero tree

[umbral badger]

good for slayer then

[verbal jacinth]

Slay, queen

[umbral badger]

the fact that it is shit for any spec is mind blowing ot me

[fresh spire]

there is a chance execute dies in .5 to slam because of wounds change but thats to be tested in colossus*

[umbral badger]

to be fair i did not check out how stats will be , assuming colossus is crit and slayer is haste for the prio

[wooden lava]

lmfaoooooo

[tight wing]

Could we drop the one to the left of dreadnaught? (Forget what it’s called)

[fresh spire]

both for most part are crit>haste>master>>vers

crits strong in both due to the countless crit damage amps across spec and apex.

[umbral badger]

even then might be the case that there is a cap of sorts for slayer before they would want more haste

[tight wing]

Oop I’ve been stacking Crit mast> haste

[umbral badger]

also fk mastery, when will our mastery stop being just like versatility

lol

[verbal jacinth]

Reworking arms mastery to also give passive damage reduction.

[tight wing]

Doesn’t it scale better than verse though? Like less rating per %

[umbral badger]

sure but it is not fun to have it do the same thing

even if better

[tight wing]

That’s fair

[umbral badger]

ofc vers will be better every while when mastery dr becomes high.

[tight wing]

Yeah, do you know when DR starts to kick in?

[umbral badger]

dunno if we have that info but usually i just calculate it in game

can easily see how much did you get of specific amount of rating

and ofc you also have to use simulations

[tight wing]

Fair

[steep osprey]

Yo

Fishy here?

[tight wing]

https://tenor.com/view/puffer-fish-what-the-heck-gif-24866376

He was a second ago lol

[steep osprey]

If the Apex talent was a 4% buff, does that mean it's an 19% overall buff

@fresh spire Hello

[thick kelp]

no because you lose a talent

probably bl

so its like uhh

17%

[tight wing]

17.6%

[steep osprey]

Right

Forgot about BL

[kindred breach]

after 1620 rating

for versa

[umbral badger]

i would say it will not be straightforward cuz of how groups / mechanics usually require dmg at certain points rather than blind dmg sometimes but overall i don't think it will be over 4%-5%

[tight wing]

Thanks!

[kindred breach]

yw

[tight wing]

Do you happen to know mast as well?

[kindred breach]

1380

[steep osprey]

Also, this is the exact change some of us were asking for

[kindred breach]

haste 1320

crit 1380

[steep osprey]

I remember saying that it would be nice if the Apex talent worked like a damage buff for CS that stacks

[tight wing]

Nice so I don’t gotta worry about it for a while lol

[umbral badger]

just to confirm though, it might start to kick-off at a certain point but it keeps changing as you go at some point

since colossus and slayer are gonna be almost equally as bad on ST gotta think of a proper colossus ST buld xd

[steep osprey]

Also I saw that UHDK got nerfed by 20%

But where's the FDK nerf

[fresh spire]

hard to say, thats 4% with CS being broken.

we still need a good 15% buff compared to the middle

[steep osprey]

Someone's gotta be the last

[fresh spire]

that will likely come next week

[umbral badger]

maybe osmething like this

[steep osprey]

More tuning will come anyway

[fresh spire]

DN is good, drop Tactical edge for DN

[steep osprey]

Fishy

[fresh spire]

me

[steep osprey]

What's the sim now?

[umbral badger]

oh nowadays dn is good for ST ?

[fresh spire]

69k

its broken

[steep osprey]

Oh nvm

[tight wing]

Nice

[fresh spire]

we was 87k before apex last night

i think we will be somewhere around 91-93 ish with apex

[steep osprey]

Ok

That sounds ok

it's not bad

[fresh spire]

most the dps are between like 105-115

so just need a little more

[dense sphinx]

idk if we break 90k

[fresh spire]

they didn't nerf cleave though

aoe stocks if we get another arua in keys going to rise

[steep osprey]

Yeah, AoE is probably gonna be crazy for Arms

[tight wing]

We’re so close T-T

[umbral badger]

@fresh spire hmm problem is i feel oclossus will need the free frequent procs of overpower cuz they don't get much free shit in their rotation to keep themselves from rage starvation so in that sense what are we gonna do about that issue

[fresh spire]

more buffs will come

[umbral badger]

tactical edge sounded to me like an easy way to solve that problem

[fresh spire]

Mortal strike has a higher prio than op so you always waste your first stacks of Tactical edge instantly.

[steep osprey]

And hopefully Cleave gets nerfed with those buffs

[fresh spire]

pressing op>ms is a damage loss

[tight wing]

Yeah

[fresh spire]

dreadnaught does like 3% of your damage on ST too, its damn strong still

[umbral badger]

sure but how are we gonna fix the rage starvation issue without free shit

can't think of a way

[thick kelp]

cap execute rage cost

[fresh spire]

rage only hurts in execute for colossus now

[fresh spire]

this

[steep osprey]

Does Colossus sim higher than Slayer?

[fresh spire]

im hoping archi can push for an adjustment to execute rage spending in the next raid. get a rework on this whole refund shit and get it removed for a hard cap rage usage on execute instead

[fresh spire]

nah slayer is much ahead, but slayer will get fucked in .5

[tight wing]

I thought it was capped at 40?

[umbral badger]

at least from the latest data we had, not higher but almost the same

was something like 66k vs 67k pre buff

and buff was generic

[fresh spire]

his point is to remove the 40 rage cap and instead of it being 20-40 rage have it be 30 rage always

so refunds can just be removed and reworked as cost is always same

[steep osprey]

Agreed

[tight wing]

Oh that make more sense

[halcyon valve]

I beg for just 10% increase to mortal strike and execute

[fresh spire]

which means they can actually tune rage income with it feeling meaning full ( we dont care cosmetic bar better bar)

[steep osprey]

Btw I think if they do another buff they might just buff our ST abilities instead of an aura buff. Better than an aura buff IMO

[umbral badger]

if anyting, i would also rather if execute is always 20 and slayer has option to make it higher. by doing that colossus won't be wasting more than 20 on a useless shit like this "and thus empowering mortal strike for a decent cost"

[slow saddle]

Tbh even at 30 i want the refunds atm🤣

[umbral badger]

like you could argue, even when execute is downbad colossus would use it if it never wastes more htan 20 rage

but when you spend 40 rage on execute it does not sound worth to me when it does zero dmg

[slow saddle]

More that if 40 = op reset always its sonewhat ok

But 20/30/40 same reset chance

[umbral badger]

at the cost of 2 slams which would do 4 time the dmg and still give you the reset with the current execute power

[slow saddle]

Yeah but if it was rage based

[fresh spire]

my initial idea for the rework was to make improved always give 5 rage back instead of refunding 10%. then remove the refunds from critial thinking and have EP incoperated into it instead. rage cap at 30 rage, so execute is effectively 25 rage.
1 point gives ep 35%
2 point gives ep 70% etc stacking only once so you can weave ms on cd. also buffs ms in aoe for colossus.

then we got room for EP to be reworked into something new

[steep osprey]

Can you get 5 procs of Heroic Strike in between CS casts?

Fishy

[slow saddle]

Y 25 rage slows us down would be good

As in the rage flow

Idm slower incommin rage but exe cant be 40 then

[fresh spire]

not even close i think

[umbral badger]

you crazy, they seem reluctant on giving us an extra passive like that 🤣 other wise they would stop giving us cleave as a talent and make it Baseline :d

[fresh spire]

average is 2-3

[tight wing]

Not easily, you gotta be really lucky

[steep osprey]

so prob 9% additional damage on average

[slow saddle]

So not nothin

[fresh spire]

sims rn are firing it always on 2 stacks only. its not adjusting as it was set up to be an average test and it looks strong

So we will see as rng is a thing

[slow saddle]

At least pushes hs as absolute top click, and me like

[steep osprey]

Didn't expect them to completely rework the last node at this point lol

This should have been a beta thing

[slow saddle]

This is the easy fix

[steep osprey]

True

[slow saddle]

And what we wanted

All the time

And asked for

[steep osprey]

Yeah we did talk about this a while ago

[slow saddle]

Ofc they still removing sd reap next patch that we asked for

[fresh spire]

we got a good start this weke, as much as we are still behind. my guess is that they don't quite know just how good the new apex will be and need data incase it was pretty insane then nerf us again 😄

[umbral badger]

my problem with it is that i am not sure if it's strong enough to strategize around it, would ahve loved if it is for example 4 stacks for 4% each so that we have room to maybe think of delaying a CS for more dmg on a specific phase.

[steep osprey]

Yeah that's probably it

[slow saddle]

So k expect 12.05 its going back 2 give cdr🤣

[steep osprey]

They must have thought the apex talent change was good enough to not give more buffs

[fresh spire]

you would never delay

[umbral badger]

ofc i am not saying very specific numbers here , just a concept @fresh spire

[slow saddle]

Which is wrong🤣

[fresh spire]

only time you would delay cs would be like in a key at end of a pack, extra stacks for next burst window

[verbal jacinth]

[steep osprey]

Better to be safe than sorry

[slow saddle]

I mean uhdk got trucked

[steep osprey]

It's a lot better to be sure of something rather than overbuff and have to nerf again

[slow saddle]

Im suprised 20% is a lot

[fresh spire]

ret is the new melee king

[slow saddle]

When they take 6% from dev

[steep osprey]

Yeah but UHDK also did 140k on sims

[fresh spire]

unholy has bugs and it got exploded so

[slow saddle]

Hybrid

[tight wing]

Personally I’d rather it be insane then get nerfed a bit than still be unable to find groups as arms

[umbral badger]

yes you would never delay as things are now. that maybe in a scenario where a boss takes "300% mroe dmg" you could justify a delay for stacks

[slow saddle]

Y but now its 111k

Which id lowrr lid

Mid with bad aoe

[steep osprey]

That still makes them somewhere upper mid

[umbral badger]

how is 111k mid

[slow saddle]

Yes but their aoe and m+ is a bit rough id venture

[steep osprey]

Upper but yeah

It's not mid

I don't think

[slow saddle]

I mean

[steep osprey]

it's probably top 10

[slow saddle]

Surv above

Fury is same?

[tropic eagle]

uhdk is still above average

[steep osprey]

That can get buffed up

I don't care lol

[tropic eagle]

the nerfs were justified but its still really good

[slow saddle]

Ofc it was

[tight wing]

Idk their apex does good AoE

[umbral badger]

if you are top 7 you are not mid, last i saw UH dk was like 6th ?

[steep osprey]

If anyone thinks the nerfs weren't justified then they're playing UHDK

[slow saddle]

I think 15% 1 week is ok

[tropic eagle]

Im palying uhdk and I was surprised about how mild the nerfs were tbh

[steep osprey]

FDK didn't get nerfed though

Should have gotten nerfed too

[umbral badger]

this is literally what i was saying to everyone, the moment i saw 20% i said "dks will be happy it was just 20%"

[slow saddle]

20% is not mild.🤣, when dev gets 6% demo warlock got?? Almost nothin

[steep osprey]

Demo got a huge nerf

What do you mean lol

[slow saddle]

Like mage got buffed

[tropic eagle]

yeah im sticking to it for s1 100% its fun and still in a very good spot

[fresh spire]

demo got their hero tree exploded

[steep osprey]

^

[fresh spire]

like 50% nerfs to all traits 😄

[tropic eagle]

demo was rtarded tbh

[fresh spire]

their still goo though

[tropic eagle]

those changes are also completely justified

[steep osprey]

Good is fine

[slow saddle]

Demo was 160k though?

[steep osprey]

Broken is the issue

[slow saddle]

Lile miiiiles ahead

[sharp wyvern]

deemo was at 130k afaik

[slow saddle]

No

130k was the fake number

But y ret is now king

[umbral badger]

yea as i understand from some of the good demo locks they are still above average

[steep osprey]

It's not like mage was doing that well anyway

[slow saddle]

Fdk might be better than uhkdk

[slow saddle]

Frost did pretty well

Arcane but might be a m0 thing there

[rotund cairn]

Demo is still very good, just not insane anymore

[steep osprey]

Look at this shit, how is this not a major nerf

[umbral badger]

we need the simulationcraft guys to work harder, gotta drop a donation for them they deserve more than blizzard 🤣

[slow saddle]

But ye uhdk still have a great dmg profile!

2 x 35% buffs w

For raid

[tropic eagle]

it is but if you are broken and completely destroying something it still puts you at a "very good" spot

[steep osprey]

I know, there's nothing wrong with their new spot

[umbral badger]

it is, but i wish they wouldn't mind doing such huge "buffs" for classes that are as far below as warlocks were far ahead 🤣

[rotund cairn]

It's around 10% in both ST and AoE. It's not a small nerf, but not enormous either

[steep osprey]

You have to be within a good margin

[steep osprey]

15% is a huge buff

[slow saddle]

Y

[umbral badger]

everything is relative, nothign is huge if it is relatively small.

[steep osprey]

Along the apex changes

[umbral badger]

to other clasases

[sharp wyvern]

its more like 18%

[slow saddle]

I hope next buffs are ms

[fresh spire]

we likely still need a 10% buff more

But that will come for mythic week

[steep osprey]

10% on MS/OP/Execute

[slow saddle]

Yes but please let it come from ms // op // exe

[fresh spire]

10% to all

[steep osprey]

20% nerf to cleave then

[slow saddle]

Yes

[steep osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

[tropic eagle]

arms season 2 will be glorious

[umbral badger]

hopefully, because relative to other classes i don't think we got a proper buff yet.

[tropic eagle]

aint coping for season 1 tho

[slow saddle]

U did not c 12.05 notes

[umbral badger]

they already have planned cleave nerf by making it not apply bleed, that's a huge nerf.

[fresh spire]

im actually worried cleave got buffed too. But thats whatever, if they fix our st and don;t nerf cleave then arms will be powerufl in keys

🤷‍♂️

[slow saddle]

Arms dies then

[sharp wyvern]

i thought buffing fury was kinda crazy
but then i saw the ret buffs

[steep osprey]

Arms will be meta

[fresh spire]

fury is like 102k now

its till mid

[umbral badger]

cleave not applying bleed is a nerf though

[fresh spire]

not that much tho

[umbral badger]

so they have the plan

[sharp wyvern]

i just wasnt expecting a fury buff

it was already in the middle

so now arms is where fury was

[tropic eagle]

one of the big guns at blizz is a fury enjoyer

they had to buff it

[umbral badger]

depends though, hectic add aoe wheere bleed does much more than non-hectic for example. also depends on how long gathering takes.

[tight wing]

Like Chris metzin and Ret

[sharp wyvern]

its the same logic as the ret buffs its the more popular spec so more people would be upset if it was bad

[umbral badger]

but i do agree with krisp that this buff will make cleave a big target

our cleave already did so much dmg on 2 target fights for example

[steep osprey]

Cleave already does obscene damage

[umbral badger]

yes

[steep osprey]

Losing wounds is nothing

And probably better for tuning

[umbral badger]

if anything the fact that when i put ravager down my cleave does more than mortal is crazy to me

[tight wing]

True

[tropic eagle]

idk man, im weird but I still miss old WW

press it once for a chunky fucking hit... peak blademaster fantasy that

now its like flailing with foam swords

[tight wing]

lol

[thorn stream]

How

[umbral badger]

now it's more like a weird sword dance

[thorn stream]

Fury was ahead 30%, no ?

[umbral badger]

probably he means "roughly"

he/she

[steep osprey]

Don't worry, guys. Arms will own on 2 targets

Are there 2 target bosse in this raid? lol

[tight wing]

Truuuuue

[umbral badger]

no way arms will own on 2 targets

vs top specs

[steep osprey]

It's a joke

I'm coping

[umbral badger]

hahahaha

[tight wing]

[vapid vault]

How big are the arms changes compared to fury, will it be viable or this just another prank?

[graceful sun]

[steep osprey]

It's not a prank

[umbral badger]

you don't get it guys, as Ion from blizzard said "we want arms to be the king of 2 target cleave"

[frosty mist]

How dead is this specc?

[steep osprey]

Not dead

[umbral badger]

so now when it's 2 targets we do 5% mroe than the top specs

other wise we do 60%

[vapid vault]

60% less?

[umbral badger]

xd

[tight wing]

It’s on life support atm though

[sharp wyvern]

for 1 boss in the entire tier we are gonna own

[graceful sun]

If you beg you might get invited to raid now.

[steep osprey]

it WAS on life support

[fresh spire]

yes and no, slam still hits two targets in aoe which is less for sure but it has 10% more crit chance from talents so it has more odds to also bleed. this also translates more into a heavier ST buff though and pushes cleave out of ST

[sharp wyvern]

at least our apex talent does something now

[umbral badger]

i swear i always think to my self "i love sweeping strikes, but if it is why they keep destroying ST pls remove it"

[thorn stream]

Slayer fortunately does not need to deal with ravaged (:

[sharp wyvern]

its only the newest reason to make ST bad

[steep osprey]

WE USE CLEAVE IN ST?????????????????????

[umbral badger]

it will bhe more bursty in the sense that we will still apply bleed opening with demo

[tight wing]

Still kinda is, just not as much lol

[umbral badger]

but yes i agreed all along that removing bleed from cleave can be fine if their intention is to make it more worth while on ST

[fresh spire]

in keys in certain situations yeh

[tight wing]

[steep osprey]

That is unfortunate

[umbral badger]

@fresh spire but , mr fishy, the problem we have is actually that they still can't giga buff bleed while Demo applies it imo. so removing it from cleave is not enough for them to buff it

[thorn stream]

Remove bleeds

[umbral badger]

i don't even like that demo is applying it

it makes shit weird

[steep osprey]

Nah I think that's cool

[fresh spire]

its mostly because of ravager buffing it to be as strong as mortal strike while it can also mortal sounds, also more rage efficnet with mass execution when we dont run any execute talents in keys

[umbral badger]

i do think it's cool i just think it is weird for game play

[fresh spire]

cleave>execute in colossus is100% fine in keys as a playstyle

but it feels stupid 😄

[steep osprey]

Yeah it does

That's why they need to nerf Cleave

[fresh spire]

the nerf to mortal wounds in .5 will nerf cleave aswell remmeber

[umbral badger]

yup, especially when ravager cleave under 35% is doing much more than a mortal strike lol

[steep osprey]

What is the damage buff from Ravager?

50%?

[median crag]

so arms warrior s tier now in m+ right?

[steep osprey]

Why not just nerf that to 35%

Seems too strong

[steep osprey]

It's probably really good

[sharp wyvern]

if arms is S fury is S++

[steep osprey]

I don't know about S tier

[fresh spire]

remove it 🐐

[steep osprey]

Remove Ravager? why not

I want the auto cast ravager that prot has

Fuck this one

[sharp wyvern]

YES

[umbral badger]

YES , TY remove the 50% dmg from ravager and maek ravager do dmg

[sharp wyvern]

make ravanger passive

[steep osprey]

Give us the Prot Passive Ravager

[tacit sandal]

Are we going Slayer or Demolish in m+?

[steep osprey]

Demolish

[umbral badger]

the thing some ppl did not notice is that our ravager entires duration is like less dmg than 1 single mortal strike how is that even a fking thing

ha ?

[steep osprey]

I assume

[umbral badger]

ha ?

[tacit sandal]

Are we picking Champions Spear too in m+?

[steep osprey]

Because it's a damage enabler for other abilities

Makes sense

[steep osprey]

Don't think so

[sharp wyvern]

for a second i forgot unhinged is slayer only now

[umbral badger]

brother it is literally a 1.5 min cd, it should not be just another veriant of "avatar"

it should have it's own interraction and dmg

[steep osprey]

I think it should be removed

[tight wing]

I agree

[graceful sun]

And it looks goofy. Make it a blademaster mirror image that does its own little bladestorm.

[umbral badger]

amen to that, either remove it or make it an actual abiity is my point

[tacit sandal]

If we pick Champions Spear,then for opener we need to go Warbreaker,Spear,Avatar,Ravager.Kinda feels too much for a opener.

Not in that order but you get it.

Demolish too

[solemn blaze]

so wait wait

how are we feeling about the buff?

[steep osprey]

It's a buff

So we're feeling better

[umbral badger]

i think with 4 set you can open with all of that and demo and before ravager and still have CS up for the entire ravager duration. that said i still don't think spear is worth.

[solemn blaze]

:>

[tight wing]

Not enough but it’s something

[umbral badger]

does anyone know why does my logetic g hub keep changing my dpi

it keeps going from 10300 to 3200

no shortcuts anywhere for it to do so

[solemn blaze]

Fair!

[tight wing]

Probably profiles for different activities

[umbral badger]

hmm might be that will have to check

have not used it a lot before just started so clueless about the options for the most part

[plain latch]

i just deleted every other dpi profile/set them all to the same dpi

[tight wing]

I used to use it but its been years

[old glacier]

Okay, besides the numbers, does it still feel fun to play?

That's subjective I guess.

[tight wing]

Yes imo

[umbral badger]

i have to make it crazy fast for some games and average for other games, 3k for POE melee playstyle is shit.