arms

[slim iron]

Guessing bear will still do more dps than arms

[sharp wyvern]

so on a targeet dummy we get on average 3 heroic strikes every 45 seconds so we probaby will never see the 15% from the new apex talent

[umbral badger]

yes that was my argument , if they buffed everything that was around or slightly higher than arms then arms did not get buffed techincally

[tight wing]

reap does 13% of my ST DPS and keep the extra 5% up

[hoary palm]

If a dev played the spec for 2 minutes they would know the apex is useless

[umbral badger]

yup, the fact that EVEN THE SLAM WE GET FOR FREE FROM CLEAVE is not procing it

stupid s FK dude

isn't slam A ST?

[tough tangle]

https://i.imgflip.com/a2hzx9.gif

[umbral badger]

so why is the free slam not procing heroic strikes ? i don't get it

[sweet tangle]

https://i.imgflip.com/a1vjj2.gif

[bold thunder]

Pls quick someone tell me if this is a joke buff

[tough tangle]

It’s not even April fools day fella

[eternal edge]

Cause it's a proc and not a cast

[topaz python]

maybe they just should make HS replace slam entirely and then spec will be good

[umbral badger]

it is a buff meant to make us not complain, it works usually.

[topaz python]

like you're not proccing HS, you just have it

[slim iron]

https://i.imgflip.com/amgis9.gif

[bold thunder]

I am rerolling fucking mage or something fuck this game

[umbral badger]

it is a shit reasoning though it should proc the HC never the less, giving us 5000 cleaves in a raw where they can't proc your apex talent is like saying "hey, here is a new toy but you don't get to play with it"

lol

[gritty karma]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-hello-elmo-rise-elmo-hell-gif-3989603362345473118

[thick cairn]

dont want ret discord shutting down again

[eternal edge]

I agree tho

[lyric hound]

or just remove slam and have overpower turn into it

[vapid spire]

We have to riot too

[gilded lotus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/293yqV3vQ5yzg63ab1BXF6 - add 15% ontop of this sim plus what ever the apex buffs equate to. This seems really good for M+?

[topaz python]

you still need a filler tho
something has to replace slam

[umbral badger]

if not for my friends playing the game i'd have refunded specifically expressing that i did not pay money for this crap

[vapid spire]

Lets protest in Silvermoon

[gilded lotus]

Its not even bad

[sudden topaz]

The biggest aura buff looks to be balance?

And unholy got fucked

[gilded lotus]

The apex buff might equate to more than what everyones expectinmg

[vapid spire]

What are they changing in the apex

[sweet tangle]

I know this would never happen but if enough people unsubbed at the same time and made a dent in their estimated profits then maybe they might do something to fix arms lol 😆

[sudden topaz]

Read it

[umbral badger]

nope, UH dk was doing 120k-130k when we were at 67k

[icy mulch]

Is that confirmed, or are we theory crafting?

[umbral badger]

20% nerf to 130k will still put UH dk 50% above us even with our 15% buff

[fast wedge]

we’re kinda back.

[hoary palm]

9% extra damage during colossus smash doesnt save us from doing bottom dps

[topaz python]

20% nerf to a spec that's already been simming 80k is not even a nerf, it just made them doing good damage instead of being freaking OP

[river ridge]

Its gonna have to have its proc rate improved considerably for that to be the case.

[sudden topaz]

And they got fucked 20% is 20%

[fast wedge]

15% aura buff

[umbral badger]

nah, any expereinced warrior will tell you that you ain't getting 5 heroic strikes in between CS

[eternal edge]

We're not cause other classes are buffed too btw

[ionic mica]

if you go from no.1 to no.1 its not really fucked is it xD

[misty bridge]

waiting patiently for the @magic canopy yap vid 🙂

[rapid bronze]

kek how did ret get all these massive buffs

[gilded lotus]

im speaking about M+ specifically. Cleaves damage is already so OP and adding 15% ontop of that just pushes it higher. The boss damage for arms will still not be good but it will even out for overall damage I dont think its as bad as what everyone thinks for M+ perspective

[icy mulch]

Well, they would have to really up the proc rate of it I guess.

[manic quest]

The UH thing is the equivalent of taking 100 dollars from a millionaire, and giving a homeless guy 50 cents. Yeah one lost something but they're still way ahead

[tight wing]

even an Inexperienced warrior can tell you that lol

[umbral badger]

yes, they were nuked from being the S++ tier to S+ TIER OR maybe S or A+ , if anything UH dk would be having fun that they got only 20%

[shy roost]

Until that gets broken by the .5 patch

[vapid spire]

Can we get a new Warrior class master ?

[sage bison]

lol

[gilded lotus]

yes but were not Thanos. Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced. Something has to be ontop. If everyones dooming so hard just play fury lol

[umbral badger]

i thought so, but many ppl thought it's gonna be 15%

[topaz python]

someone still said RIP Unholy in wowhead comments XDDDD

[gilded lotus]

its not tho

[manic quest]

It doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, but we're asking for specs not to be 50%+ from one another

[tight wing]

12% at best if you're REALLY Lucky

[hoary palm]

the fact blizz made the apex stack 5 times shows they are out of touch with the spec and no dev has played arms

[rapid bronze]

demo and arcane seem to have gotten big nerfs as well

[umbral badger]

that implies you have the rage to spam ST skills enough to get that many procs LoL

[thick cairn]

usual cooked wowhead comments

[topaz python]

i can see that happeing only if you fight two targets with sweeping strikes on

because you'll get 2x procs

[tight wing]

exactly, it'll be 6 or 9% most of the time

[umbral badger]

@tight wing one of the biggest barriers preventing Heroic strike procs is actually rage starvation on ST

[topaz python]

i really just think that they should remake apex to HS replace slam fully so we just press it to keep stacks

[umbral badger]

the proc seems to be ON use though , so it is not affected by sweeping.

[topaz python]

and lower it's damage by slight margin so MS baseline is bigger

[gritty karma]

Fuck rend fuck slam fuck warrior

[umbral badger]

they don't wnat that, that's why they removed the entire execute stacking thing from arms "although it's not the same thing" but they don't want that kind of stacking

[topaz python]

rend is fine tho?

[wise wren]

one day...soon this discord will learn warrior will never be good again until the Skyhold trials are held against warrior devs for crimes against humanity

[sudden topaz]

Guardian nerfs, we trounce them now lolol

[crystal nexus]

would heroic strike giving colossus smash be problematic at all? it feels like an ability that should give stacks

[topaz python]

but it's still the same, but now it's determined not only on uptime, but on rng :D

[fringe moon]

Is arms a spec again?

[umbral badger]

if anything, i hated it a lot before and yet i prefered it over the one we have now.

[gritty karma]

Nope

[icy mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/no-donkeys-shrek-gif-1107972158425297474

[fallen pewter]

They should switch the numbers on the apex talent to be 5% stacking 3 times, instead of 3% stacking 5 times.

[fringe moon]

15% aura buff not enough?

[gilded lotus]

it will be fine for M+ average in raid dont listen to everyone crying

[gritty karma]

Still the worst spec

[umbral badger]

basically the argument i am making is along those lines.

[icy mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-already-dead-crying-pointing-panicking-gif-17162535

[hoary palm]

Arms is actually a worse spec than before because the other bottom tier specs got bigger buffs. So we are firmly in last and far away last

[sudden topaz]

Just be happy it's worth taking now

[umbral badger]

and why give false info ? it won't be fine in raid.

[magic canopy]

its already up dog

[gilded lotus]

I said average in raid u dumb fuck

[umbral badger]

it won't be average, and average IS FINE

[obsidian lance]

15% aura buff is a joke hahaha.

[topaz python]

it won't be average on raid
run 10 min patchwerk for arms and for ret for example (which is going to get huge buff)

[rose belfry]

Its not average is its dead last xd

[topaz python]

and ret is average now, before buffs

even might say its below

[umbral badger]

yup, that's what i am saying, saying average means it's fine, and it won't be average or even close to it.

[hoary palm]

So boring blizz only makes the same specs meta over and over again for the past 5 expansions

[misty bridge]

pog

[hoary palm]

UH DK, ret pally, every mage spec, DH

over and over again

[rose belfry]

I get it ( prolly he played too much arms and its on copium now)

[magic canopy]

Went into it with no info. Fresh pain right from the frontal lobe

[gilded lotus]

play something else then u sook

[topaz python]

honestly i dont get why they had to kill arms
just make it deal avg damage and most of arms players would be happy

[thick cairn]

awwww you've done it now, rip my friend

[kindred breach]

ret pal meta? lol

[plush wharf]

y0 folks, is arms revived with 15%?

[obsidian lance]

Nope, change for surv hunter, is a better arms with pet

[rose belfry]

After all the numbers feral seems to go crazy tbh

[warped solstice]

No

[plush wharf]

[umbral badger]

yup, from my expereince as arms if i am in the middle i can manage in specific situations. but if it's too weak no strategy or mechanci can save you.

[topaz python]

everyone got bigger buff except demo and udk so no

[thick cairn]

absolutely, you shall be dining with devourer dh at the top of the meter

[obsidian lance]

Guys, let me explain: 15% of 0 dmg, is 0 dmg

[misty bridge]

It needs an arm replacement

[plush wharf]

🥂

[umbral badger]

that's an inslut, survival hunter is a hunter with arms warrior as his pet, or maybe that's insulting the pet.

[sudden topaz]

Lol

[torpid acorn]

more like Neck Warrior, cause i feel like doing a reverse tie hanging from the ceiling

[icy mulch]

At this point it's fury and maybe some prot. Arms is completely dead.

[umbral badger]

that won't help you though, they will just put you as an NPC on some random island and say "in memory of......"

[obsidian lance]

My apologizes. My intention is not insult the pet

[topaz python]

demo has an arms warrior pet

[umbral badger]

ty, we are a pet loving community.

[topaz python]

it even has MS and bladestorm

[obsidian lance]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-petting-dogs-gif-22137938

[umbral badger]

at least they do dmg though

[icy mulch]

https://i.imgflip.com/amgis9.gif

[topaz python]

not anymore with 50% nerfs i guess

[dark jungle]

Just saw notes, is arms now viable?

[topaz python]

arms is still dead

[sharp wyvern]

its still the worst spec

[topaz python]

pin that

[umbral badger]

nope if you look at the entire notes

[obsidian lance]

No, 15% of 0 damage, still 0 dmg

[umbral badger]

we need skyhold admins to take memes seriously, SKYHOLD ADMINS, pin "still deadge" somewhere

xd

[rose belfry]

In .5 arms gets 2 nerfs btw xdddd

[obsidian echo]

I think there was a typo, it should say 150% not 15%

[topaz python]

i mean
even if arms only being buffed we would still be at the bottom
avg sim rn is 35k st patchwerk
35 + 15% is a rocking 40k which is below fury that is sitting at 50k rn

[obsidian lance]

https://i.imgflip.com/amgis9.gif

[brisk mango]

Im late to the expansion, is there anything in Arms set pieces that make our damage jump?

[topaz python]

ye

by 3%

[obsidian echo]

And Furt getting 10%

[umbral badger]

yup, that's why i sid look at all notes cuz you have to also add the buffs to every other class.

[obsidian lance]

No, just give up n play with another class

[torpid acorn]

what really frustrastes me is that i was reading every calss one by one, and it seemed like they we're actualy looking at classes, got to balance and saw a 20% aura buff + spells buff. i was feeling confident.
ret palladin, a lot of especific changes.
Warrior got 2 lines. 15% aura buff.

[left minnow]

i mean 15% are 15% if we get to much instantly we get giga nerfed

[torpid acorn]

its not only bad. its insulting

[obsidian lance]

I will play with aug evoker to help armless arms to do damage hahaha

[sharp wyvern]

intern had to do some warrior tuning

cause they dont have a warrior dev

[brisk mango]

Yeah that was the most disheartening, every class has detail.... Arms we let our intern do this

[umbral badger]

WRONG, arms warrior also got a nerf 'generic warrior nerf" so we did get more lines than just 2, just negative shit lines.

[sharp wyvern]

we did get a dev note for howling cry

piercing howl *

[lyric hound]

id much rather overdoing it and maybe us making top 10 and get 5%-10% nerf then not buffing enough at the start of the season where stigma will carry over for the rest of the xpac

[umbral badger]

the only details warrior got is "don't use piercing howl ever again"

[obsidian echo]

[umbral badger]

that's the exact copium ppl kept repeating the entire TWW expansion, we never broke above average

[atomic chasm]

When we do sims, do we sim against Target Dummy, since we dont get execute window?

[timid elk]

Even our patch notes are F tier

[brisk mango]

Well my Ret and demo lock are already leveled see ya in S2

[warped solstice]

"We tried to give Warrior some usable utility, and we decided that was a mistake."

[umbral badger]

yes, i even made a post about "reptuational damage" it sucks

[sharp wyvern]

they buffed prot by 10% aswell btw

[topaz python]

it's so sad that spec that has more buttons and depth to its rotation than most of specs game has to offer just so undertuned

[left minnow]

all i was hoping the last 3 years with warrior

[chrome lava]

you guys need to understand

[left minnow]

small buff after all the hate

[chrome lava]

their a.i dev didnt had all the prompts

[left minnow]

xD

[chrome lava]

so they could only do that

[left minnow]

they start small

[warped solstice]

I'm legit leveling a Frost Mage as we speak.

[left minnow]

maybe season 2 we get a nice buff

xD

or seasons 3

[worldly rivet]

The WoW community's opinion on Arms is just getting lower haha. Not sure I'll ever get a key invite and will just forever have to run my own.

[umbral badger]

i really hate that i have good friends to play with, i'd be able to refund my expansion other wise.

[timid elk]

If we stay faithful surely we will be rewarded one day

[misty bridge]

kinda crazy we waited 4 weeks for this xd

[obsidian lance]

I play arms warrior since cata. Best time for arms. Legion destroyed arms hahah

[lyric hound]

maybe its cuz skyhold isnt in the ambassador program lol

[brisk mango]

It's not even just a buff arms feels horrible to play now

[left minnow]

fr

[umbral badger]

youuuu crazy, i loved legion arms. my favorite !

[left minnow]

was hayped for giga buffs, blizz sayed fck off

[worldly rivet]

But I'll just play my outlaw who feels good and pumps when I play well.

[umbral badger]

i've been saying this for 3 days , don't raise your hopes blizzard do not do 50% buffs

[obsidian lance]

In cata, mop and wod, arms was a king of dmg

[umbral badger]

actually for the vast majority of wod arms was one of the worst specs, i know because i am the warrior who popularized it :p

[tight wing]

guys

I did it I got 5 stacks

[cedar flame]

it is still a king of damage. just emotional damage now

[umbral badger]

@obsidian lance in wod i played on a very high level guild as arms and in the top 200 warriors i will literally the only arms. the world of logs days

[obsidian lance]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-crying-meme-doggo-crys-megan-soo-crying-dog-gif-5276199764143986284

[warped solstice]

Did you hold CS until they stacked up. 😉

[umbral badger]

but i did love focused rage a lot that's why i loved legion arms

[crimson furnace]

Kinda odd to only give arms a 15% and give fury which I don’t think was doing terrible a 10%

[tight wing]

I didn't have to

[gusty nymph]

https://giphy.com/gifs/jenniferaccomando-emotional-damage-ro08ZmQ1MeqZypzgDN

[sharp wyvern]

those stacks refresh tho so even if you got 5 stacks that dosnt mean you got them in 45 seconds

[warped solstice]

They buffed pretty much all the DPS specs.

[lyric hound]

well we get what 2 more passes before mythic? or 1? maybe we can make it off the bench

[north junco]

[left minnow]

the piercing howls cd is kinda cringe so we dont choose it right ?

xD

[tight wing]

MoW stacks

[umbral badger]

i mean i will say that i did have times where i got more heroic strikes proc than usual but overall that does not happen, also i am not sure they will keep the "cd reduction" factor in the apex

so if the apex losses the CD reduction that might mean more Heroic strikes than my experiment

[misty bridge]

[plucky osprey]

Are we going to take the last apex node now ? Or still nor worth?

[topaz python]

they have to remove cd
desync is cringe

[warped solstice]

Arms so bad Liquid has Boomie playing healer this xpac. 😢

[obsidian lance]

If i stack 3 HS for each CS is much

[left minnow]

wait wati all dmg sooo colo demolish with the buffed colo smash giga burst for 1 sec insane

[regal dragon]

does arms own now?

[flint cedar]

Added my little tid bit. My goodness

[minor gust]

🫡

[topaz python]

with 12.0.5 changes i'm pretty sure that colo will be better even on st

[umbral badger]

i mean they don't like to make us sync, other wise they wouldn't have made ravager as it is now

[atomic chasm]

Nobody answered me 🙁 When we do sims, do we sim against Target Dummy, since we dont get execute window?

[sharp wyvern]

there is a part of me that belives they changed the apex last minute cause of the wowhead article

[obsidian lance]

The last talent on apex should be : execute by SD guarantees HS

[left minnow]

yeah but 12.0.5 is far away, they might do something right xd

[umbral badger]

if i am being serious though , they might think the CS heroic strike apex talent will be big with tier set. ofc, it won't.

[simple gull]

how could they do this to arms man

[proper moth]

well brothers

Havoc DH at 111k so far

aldrachi changes havent been simmed from what i understand

[atomic chasm]

Can someone link the 12.0.5 notes?

[slender sonnet]

I mean

[topaz python]

dont sim dummy or you'll see worse DPS numbers than in TWW

[slender sonnet]

we're still the worst dps spec

right?

[topaz python]

right

[warped solstice]

Pretty much looks that way, yes.

[left minnow]

dont say worst dps spec

[umbral badger]

why can't i find the tier set bonuses xd

i am too sleepy

[slender sonnet]

cause spriest was the 2nd worst and its buffs were crazy

[topaz python]

best tank spec?

[left minnow]

say best housing spec

xD

[atomic chasm]

So I sim patchwork and just pray that I can hit that with execute window?

[left minnow]

[fading isle]

can we rename this channel as #Legs

[topaz python]

you may change patchwerk to 8-10 minutes to simulate real fight

[devout pewter]

no, those got nerfed

[orchid ledge]

wjat

[chrome lava]

Arms renamed to TORSO

[warped solstice]

That would imply we have strong legs, which we don't.

[left minnow]

i mean overall is ok but bad, single target is just kinda giga cringe

[orchid ledge]

is the consensus on class tuning for this spec?

[ripe oxide]

no more running slightly faster every 30 seconds

[topaz python]

no.

[devout pewter]

we're just happy to be here

[orchid ledge]

wow

[left minnow]

just play feral

[devout pewter]

That's a nerf tho

[near ice]

15% of shit is still shit 🙂

[worldly rivet]

How is wild stalker so high

[fading isle]

is that full bis'd out

[olive nest]

74k x 1.15

Fucking massive

They out did themselves

[warped solstice]

Got a 6% buff, btw.

[fading isle]

85k

decent

[umbral badger]

and balance was 82k and got over 20% buff xd

what a joke

[proud schooner]

id say likely higher bc apex

[olive nest]

The new apex is something idk maybe a couple k

On average

[sudden topaz]

What're those numbers from

[regal dragon]

ah so fury still then

[warped solstice]

Can't have a M+ season where Balance isn't meta.

[fading isle]

Can't even compite with thane ST

[proud schooner]

i think the clearest winner here is arms aoe

[fading isle]

that's so bad lmfao

[olive nest]

Apparently they decided fuck arms warrior this tier

Idk what else to say

[umbral badger]

we can assume it's 5% overall , maybe roughly 6.5%

[chrome lava]

"this tier"

[umbral badger]

if you are lucky

[shy roost]

it's fine. Still above Ret and havoc

[topaz python]

that is with buffs?

[worldly rivet]

Shadow Priest is funny too

[warped solstice]

Ret got giga buffs though.

[proud schooner]

which would put us at 90-95k~

[umbral badger]

pre, with buffs it might be worse relative to everything else

[worldly rivet]

Their ST is garbage so to buff them they nerfed their AOE.

[olive nest]

Ahh good if it’s say 5% we’ll be at 90k st

Outstanding

[worldly rivet]

Blizzard is so inconsistent on how they balance.

[near ice]

those are pre-buffed numbers

for ST bis

[sudden topaz]

There's one more pass before m+

[proud schooner]

and no sets correct?

[umbral badger]

that if we are being generous, at which point everything else is above 90k so it's not good

[gusty nymph]

close the discord channel 🤪

[near ice]

bis implies sets..

[proud schooner]

damn

[topaz python]

so colo is better than slayer st?

[mortal niche]

the dartboard is very consistent

[obsidian lance]

Wow, look that fucking 15% dmg. Amazing

[slender sonnet]

my only hope is that they're not touching arms too much cause there's a rework coming.

that's the one shred of hope I have atp

[sudden topaz]

What did you realistically want to see

[tight wing]

50%+

[slender sonnet]

20% and OP and DW gen rage

[chrome lava]

30% buff would be ok

[umbral badger]

so if we look at this buff , doesn't that read as "30% single target buff" roughly ?

[mortal niche]

just like the heat death of the universe is coming

[umbral badger]

cuz ll of those are priests ST right /

?

[tight wing]

Shadow is only ST

except shadow crash

[umbral badger]

i am not very familiar iwht shadow priest but trying to figure out if they will be above us now

[slender sonnet]

I want our spec to be able to generate enough rage to do its rotation :/

[tight wing]

more than likely

[slender sonnet]

without having a shaman in the group

[quiet hare]

their cleave got reduced by 40% tho

[worldly rivet]

They nerfed their AOE.

Psychic Link now causes direct damage spells to inflict 20% of their damage to all other targets afflicted by Vampiric Touch (was 60%)

[tight wing]

that seems extreme

[umbral badger]

yea but looking at the ST aspect now, it seems like a 30% ST buff so that would put them far ahead of arms

[slender sonnet]

but the spells that psychic link spreads have been buffed quite significantly

[quiet hare]

everyone is far ahead of arms

[kindred breach]

they buffed single target dmg on top of an aura buff

so the psychic link nerf is not that big

[worldly rivet]

Blizzard doesn't know how to balance psychic link. It's one of the reasons I quit Shadow Priest.

[tight wing]

put it at 45% and call it a day

[umbral badger]

the argument is , the things that were slightly worse than arms are getting much bigger buffs than arms

meaning we might legit be unplayable relative to even to what previously was unplayable

[sudden topaz]

Who

[warped solstice]

Ret, Spriest.

[umbral badger]

i am just overcomplicating it :p was t hinking that shadowpriest had worse aoe and almost same ST but now they are far ahead in ST

[warped solstice]

Balance.

[umbral badger]

also why the f did elemental shaman get a small buff , they are top 5

[warped solstice]

Because this patch makes zero sense.

[sudden topaz]

Balance is the only clear one that got buffed more

[warped solstice]

Ret's buffs are for sure going to be more than 15% overall.

I suppose ours are too, but not by that much.

[umbral badger]

i mean shadowpriest got bufffed by much more than arms

at least for ST

[tight wing]

remember, 15% of 0 is still 0

[hoary palm]

We got like a 16% buff

[worldly rivet]

Arms seems straightforward to buff on paper and making the numbers work.

Spriest has to deal with psychic link and the impossible to balance Power Infusion.

The buff just makes it seem like they mailed it in with Arms.

didnt even try haha.

[umbral badger]

i would agree if we did not have an issue of ST skills hitting lower on ST than cleave

lol

like they needed to address the execute issue

execute is almost not worth using

if not straightup not worth

[warped solstice]

It'll shake out to roughly 20% I believe.

[proud remnant]

Not a bad first pass of tuning imo. They fixed out apex talent, we will get another chunky buff the following week. It’s a good start. Once they see us underperform in raid dmg they will boost our single target

[umbral badger]

could be 22%-24% even on aoe, and 19%ish on ST if i am thinking about it correctly

[kindred breach]

agree, it's even before 17th

[hoary palm]

How? We get between 6-9% extra damage during colossus smash and we have to move a talent point to get it. We don’t get a free extra talent

[proud remnant]

I’m just happy they fixed apex

[umbral badger]

we can't be optimistic and behave forever, it did not work for us before xd

we straight up need to open a bunch of tickets pretending that we want to "cancel sub"

lol

[worldly rivet]

Most classes got buffed. Arms is still probably in the same spot.

[umbral badger]

lets all go open tickets to talk with game masters asking if we can cancel sub and refund expansion cuz balance sucks xd

don't have to do it just the drama of it

🤣

[coral phoenix]

take a note from the paladins and close the discord as well

[umbral badger]

now that i think about it blizzard love money so much if we all start asking if we can refund they might get scared lol

[sudden topaz]

Better than the constant negativity over getting buffed

[umbral badger]

agree

[proud remnant]

We will get another buff the following week. EVERYONE STAY CALM!

[umbral badger]

d

[proud remnant]

sorry I panicked

[umbral badger]

lol

[sudden topaz]

Just play like shit next week and get bigger buffs

[proud remnant]

Yeah nobody pump in raid

And we get our single target fixed

NO PUMPING

[viscid grail]

I don't think we could if we tried

[main wing]

15% dam live?

[viscid grail]

Maybe everyone use the single button

[granite coral]

can we not do gifs

[dusk field]

Everyone just use the one button /s

[granite coral]

https://i.imgflip.com/amlfod.gif

there we go

[chrome lava]

this has become more relevant with the frost DK buff

[north forge]

so arms needed ~20% just to possibly keep up with fury yet it got 15% and then fury got 10% so......... looks like another fury xpac bois

[plain violet]

I just got told by my guild pala enjoyer that these new buffs (18%) will put them in the 110-115k DPS, let that sink in. These mofos went from good to top and arms is even further down the trashcan

[olive nest]

Should have been a 25% aura + the apex change

That’s napkin math roughly just about 100k

[tough wing]

The apex change is great. The final rank was garbage before

[olive nest]

Absolutely

Removing the desync is great

[tough wing]

I’m optimistic. Hopefully arms will get another damage buff on next tuning pass

[sharp wyvern]

But now we also lose a passive in the tree to use the apex talent

[olive nest]

Yeah when they have realistic data to tune with from the heroic raid fights

[crude bison]

90 second piercing howl

[olive nest]

Yeah I feel like you give up a talent that’s 1-2% for an apex talent that’s roughly 3-5%

So really we prob won’t even break 90k lmao

What a joke

[frail crown]

Was arms shadow buffed?? All of a sudden I’m seeing a ton of arms guys lol

[umbral badger]

i made a ticket pretending to be ignorant on about how refunding works 🤣 "can i refund for balance reasons ?"

[tough wing]

Tuning patch coming the 17th

[frail crown]

Ahh ok

Ty

[sharp wyvern]

At least no one has to update arms position on tierlists

[umbral badger]

go guys make more tickets like me pretending to be ignorant on how refunding works xd

[minor gust]

Once apex gets updated in sims well break 90

[sharp wyvern]

Idk what kind of culture your from but being a Karen usually only backfires

[olive nest]

Idk bro the 15% aura on 74k puts you at 85k

You think 1 talent gives us 5ish % to break 90k

[sharp wyvern]

But the tier set synergies with the new apex

[olive nest]

That I actually did not consider

Good point

[minor gust]

with how high uptime CS it is likely

[umbral badger]

"karen" this is your money, a karen is someoen who tries to fk with you for no reason lol

i don't know what culture you live in, but when you pay for a service you gotta expect a fair treatment for that service lol

[olive nest]

Uhh sir to point out the obvious, you’re kinda fucking with the ticket ai system for no reason haha

But aye have your fun who am I to judge

[umbral badger]

i dont' care lol, i paid for something i expect a return one way or another xd

[sharp wyvern]

Didnt you know We all pay for our specs to be good

Those damn mage lobbyists

Always making sure mage is good

[umbral badger]

didn't you know, we all pay the same and recieve different experience ?

this is literally like going into a restaurant ordering the same as your friend, you get a burnt meal ande he gets it perfectly cooked then your friend tells you "that's how it should be"

[chrome lava]

yall are assuming

real people will answer your ticket

[mossy gazelle]

Sorry to break hype if there was any, but 15% buff with that heroic strike buff will just bring arms to middle or lower mid range of classes tier list. Still, absolutely needed buff for arms

[olive nest]

Let’s says it’s worth 5% just for shits, that doesn’t even crest 90k plus you lose the other talent to gain the apex
I get what your saying and I’m obviously guessing but doesn’t seem to really bridge the gap at first glance

[devout pewter]

oh we know

[olive nest]

Will be curious to see what the guys find when they sim this change, I hope I’m far off and it’s massive somehow

[sharp wyvern]

Middle ? We go from bottom to bottom

[chrome lava]

[umbral badger]

the point ppl are making is that everything got buffed

[minor gust]

I am just giving my guess as well. We will know more when its updated

[olive nest]

True ye

[solar nymph]

Is the patchnote an actuai joke or did I miss something

[misty sandal]

Arms is so back!!!!

https://tenor.com/view/bayonetta-platinum-games-dance-lets-dance-boys-witch-gif-16975007

[lime ruin]

Eh

[devout pewter]

back to the bottom,yep

[inner wasp]

shadow priest players will say that its worse

[chrome lava]

are you joking or being fr

[viscid fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/swifty-bad-news-wo-w-warcraft-reallybadnews-gif-20257015

[prime thicket]

do we know what are the change like % wise? i dont find it for either arms or fury

[solar nymph]

15

[scenic robin]

So still no single target dmg?

[solar nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/cap-capping-cappin-gif-15667706

[prime thicket]

ty

somehow it dont show on my wowhead lmao

[rose ibex]

hell yeah dude

[solar nymph]

Woohoo and 15 on a node no one will ever take cause we actually own brains

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-cena-gif-5696893

[chrome lava]

[rose ibex]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/class-tuning-incoming-18-march-610948

[rose ibex]

me happy. smash good

[chrome lava]

https://tenor.com/view/how-do-we-tell-him-mr-krabs-spongebob-meme-spongebob-meme-gif-24063814

[tight wing]

I like the smash too it's fun

[carmine ginkgo]

my brain must be missing. why won't we take R4 apex?

[sharp dust]

[solar nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-gif-26414884

[raw zenith]

Unironically Arms overall is gonna be kinda fucking high

[mortal rivet]

https://tenor.com/view/goodfellas-laugh-liotta-gif-13856770980338154376

[proper moth]

Lmaoooo

[raw zenith]

Just not great in raid

[devout pewter]

Check all other classes.

[rose ibex]

just let me be happy

[devout pewter]

No. Suffer with us.

[solar nymph]

In three patch and in actual dps because you're gonna to up against tour usual guildie stans

[proper moth]

Everyone saying arms is back probably has a 2005 civic with an oversized wing on it claiming it adds 100hp

[rose ibex]

the less i think, the happier i am, therefore nothing can possibly stop me

[solar nymph]

You're a 2005 civic

[proper moth]

Nou

[solar nymph]

Nome

Fuck

[raw zenith]

Don’t get me wrong, Fury is still better. But both DPS Warrior specs in keys full phys comp are gonna do well

[chrome lava]

Arms number 8 spec in delves, oh yeah

[rose ibex]

hell yeah dude

[scenic robin]

Huuuuge

[misty sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/armswarrior-warrior-warriorwow-armswow-armswarriorwow-gif-27099127

[solar nymph]

Bro You're too naïve

And I wish everyone was like you

[chrome lava]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-the-agents-know-dont-gif-18536773

[raw zenith]

You guys are just too jaded from being Warrior mains too long

Smell the roses

[unborn canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/how-do-we-tell-him-mr-krabs-spongebob-meme-spongebob-meme-gif-24063814

[sharp dust]

One must imagine Arms mains happy

[devout pewter]

We can barely keep over Tanks in DPS. I don't think that's "doing well". Even if our AOE dps will be good, our ST still sucks ass and everyone else is just simply better at both.

[unborn canyon]

nah, u can do the math, arms isnt even middle of the pack with those buffs still

[vapid spire]

I dont wanna smell the roses, i only wanna smell the BRRRRRRRRRRRR

[proper moth]

Arms buffs are huge for my pet battles

[shy dew]

ig even with 30% buff in arms will not be enough to bring arms to B tier

[raw zenith]

That’s a skill issue, all g

[viscid fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/mortal-strike-terry-crews-wo-w-warrior-gif-18597900

[unborn canyon]

pretty sure a 40% aura buff would have brought us to middle of the pack or something

[runic rock]

Arms buffs would've been nice if they didn't buff fury at 10%

[solar nymph]

But people are braindead, under the 1% threshold you can play arms with a bow for all that matters, when you try to reach above most people are only gonna check viability overall and not skill viability

[sharp dust]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1042762634539319366/1053485451668901988/20221217_013459.gif

[runic rock]

Fury still gonna be way ahead

[viscid fossil]

dont let blizzard turn you against your brothers and sisters

[proper moth]

I want screen shots of how many declines from keys you get

[devout pewter]

Skill issue? The numbers aint gonna be better because you're more "skilled" lol

[rose ibex]

i'll still have to play prot to get into pugs but when the boys get on I will be less dead weight :)

[scenic robin]

How can I become more skilled?

[proper moth]

Turn on the one button rotation

[sharp dust]

https://i.imgflip.com/a389n4.gif

[viscid fossil]

play unholy, much higher skillcap and the meter reflects that

[proper moth]

Then stand in fire for the dps buff

[scenic robin]

[rose ibex]

push the buttons harder

[chrome lava]

we smelled and its dead

[viscid fossil]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/975072449404207176/1065343394425090120/MSbun.gif

[solar nymph]

Bro hits harder than a 2012 youtuber at teencon

[bitter escarp]

RIP PIERCING HOWL MISS MY BOY FRFR

[sharp dust]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/148898720803586048/1042069193392136223/20221115_132954.gif

[weary dirge]

Gladiator Stance would fix everything

[devout pewter]

today gonna be funny. many people just seeing the 15% and being happy, coming here to hype just to be shot down because it barely changes anything lol

[weary dirge]

Arms is so back baby. Bringing everyone to gap city. The last titan is me.

[quiet bramble]

need more

[vapid spire]

Our apex is a joke ngl

[viscid fossil]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/959909495490900078/967175134660161576/NoBitches.gif

[minor gust]

Not anymore!

[solar nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/report-block-blocked-reported-die-gif-2717402674895639042

[sharp dust]

https://tenor.com/view/ban-button-keyboard-press-the-ban-button-gif-16387934

[viscid fossil]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1024035623864115220/1328795234628407347/clicker.gif

[rose ibex]

i'm dumb and can't understand numbers. is the change good?

[devout pewter]

yes and no

[solar nymph]

No

Its ok, but it doesnt change the overall status

[quiet bramble]

mah gawd, shit has to more than this right? shit can't end like this

[sharp dust]

Oh man i should press revenge more on arms, might do more damage

[viscid fossil]

everyone else got more love in essence

[chrome lava]

its not bad, it just doesnt do anything in the end

[clever lichen]

fury is better

[solar nymph]

Not press, click

[vapid spire]

We still have to prov HS to get 3% damage per stack to a maximum of 15%. This is dogshit compared to the flat damage toaster brain paladins got

[scenic robin]

If we get buffed to mid tier does that mean blizzard will think we good and leave us like this for the rest of the season?

[devout pewter]

it basically keeps us in line with everyone else... but probably doesnt change our actual "place" on the pole

[tight wing]

QUESTION! are you supposed to use rend in ST?

[sharp dust]

I press thunderclap instead of slam idk

[viscid fossil]

if you choose rend on wowhead it will tell you where to fit that into the rotation

[solar nymph]

For rage yes, and usually in the long term yes

[tight wing]

cool

[solar nymph]

But arms be arms rn

So maybe not

[leaden garnet]

Pardon? Rend doesn't generate rage

[solar nymph]

Who knows

[graceful sun]

Give the boss some bleed as a little treat ❤️

[solar nymph]

Def not blizzard

[wind hatch]

yeah but on slayer its not super high prio rn

[quiet bramble]

Zzzzzzz

[solar nymph]

And no matter every other class in your raid is gonna blast so you're gonna barely see the pros of having more rage

While you'll still be in your first bladestorm

[quiet bramble]

ST is so aaaaah that i got sleepy

[viscid fossil]

they should make it so that arms is just bladestorm toggle on and off so i can go get coffee

[sharp dust]

Good night everybody, one more for the road

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1400621957921374269/riparms.gif

[quiet bramble]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1404576054063923301/dead-arms.gif

[hoary palm]

https://i.imgflip.com/a2hzx9.gif

[leaden garnet]

Do you guys actually like playing arms, or are you just in it for the memes?

[solar nymph]

BS is meh anyway, id rather have bo BS and just keep dancing with cds

[leaden garnet]

-# imo Arms feels much nicer than fury atm

[tight wing]

I agree

[solar nymph]

Been playing arms, and only arms since wod

[sharp dust]

They ruined arms and i want it to be fun again!

[solar nymph]

Nothing compares

[viscid fossil]

thane is kinda lame, slayer got something going with the rb refreshs

[solar nymph]

Fury is always braindead apm contest

[viscid fossil]

but both are pretty low maintenance idk

[leaden garnet]

My very favourite version of arms was early Legion

[graceful sun]

I hate Arms and have done for 20 years. I just hate every other class + spec more.

[minor gust]

[leaden garnet]

High APM via oGCD rage dumps but also not being GCD locked

But I doubt they'll ever bring that back

[sharp dust]

Dragonflight season 1 ignore pain for damage was super fun

[solar nymph]

Arms is a delicate dance between your cds, tour refresher and the boss phases

[quiet bramble]

50/50, but i did have fun with arms after spending most of the time playing fury

[sharp dust]

Fight me

[leaden garnet]

Based take

[wind hatch]

I think slayer is pretty dope right now but they're gonna fuck it in the midseason patch

[hoary palm]

Based takes

Bring back ignore pain or focused rage

[solar nymph]

Shadowland arms amirite

[prisma bluff]

The warrior's assassin mode is good for mid-levels+; I think it has good damage and we can compete.

+m

[quiet bramble]

thane arms soon

[granite swift]

So going off this….if you look at our buffs and everyone around us buffs we drop down one position? Or maybe stay same because of BM? Wow.

[minor gust]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/1205-slayer-arms-sudden-death-change-is-a-horrible-decision/2270878
Speaking of mid season patch. Be sure to drop off any angry complaints about it here

[viscid fossil]

1 spot doesnt matter, 5 spots mostly dont if you have special utility

[sharp dust]

Condemn + ignore pain affects Tactician and anger management + sudden death procs thunderclap + 30% more rage

And revert the FX change of collusus smash

[foggy scarab]

so whats the vibe with the 15% buff coming in on reset

[viscid fossil]

https://imgur.com/YZ61lbt

[chrome lava]

wet shit to solid shit

[minor gust]

Still the worst ST spec just 15% less

[wind hatch]

It and the apex talent change are obviously a step in the right direction but it just isn't enough

We need targeted buffs to our single target

[viscid fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/its-over-we-are-so-back-nightcrawler-lou-bloom-gif-15162091166909902657

[dire copper]

mind if I ask where this image is from?

[steady isle]

well, fury reroll

[mighty stratus]

I just need execute to feel good to press.

Please.

[queen garden]

• Master of Warfare's final rank Heroic Strike now increases the damage you deal to enemies affected by your next Colossus Smash by an additional 3%. Stacks up to 5 times.

Really hope the stacks are not going to be a debuff on target

[shy dew]

prob will be master warfare buff u have it in urself

[queen garden]

hope not considering how it works it will be unlikely to reach 5 stacks consistently

[torpid acorn]

where can i find the sims from all specs?

[queen garden]

if I remember correctly each stack has its own timer and it doesnt refresh the whole duration , if so it will be kinda deranged gameplay

[obsidian wave]

don't give these brainless monkeys any more ideas

[queen lotus]

Is arm's no longer recoverable?

[magic heron]

Arms warrior buffs 🙂 yay

@queen garden It will just make your Colossus smash make them take 45% more damage instead of 30%

[minor gust]

You won't lose the CS stacks when a master of warfare buff drops. The way it's typed out implies it will be a separate buff. Well avg 2-3 stacks between each CS

[queen garden]

I mean it's likely to be the case, do you expect them to put some effort and code another buff in game rather than baking stuff into an existing one ? lol

[vast tinsel]

Reliably?

[minor gust]

No you will avg only 2-3 stacks

[vast tinsel]

Lmao

[minor gust]

It's designed to go to 5 so if you ever need to hold CS you aren't wasting stacks

[broken hound]

Are we saved?

did it happen?

[magic heron]

If it's stacked onto the Master of Warfare buff, then it'll be 1-3 stacks when you C-Smash and you'll get 33-39% more damage dealt to target

In PvE, it's possible to get 5 stacks, but it's probably rare. Unless they stealth buff the proc chance of Heroic Strike

[minor gust]

Will be nice for M+ when you have to hold CS for next pack and you can keep building a stronger CS

[magic heron]

More importantly, SLAM crits are going to apply Deep wounds so that's a nice buff for single target

[minor gust]

That's for 12.05

Not Tuesday

[magic heron]

FRICK

I thought that was happening on Tuesday

F

[minor gust]

No thankfully

[queen garden]

As if loosing Colossal Might stack in m+ due dungeon pacing wasn't miserable enough, now u going to be full cucked and see master of warfare stacks fade too and and you gonna like it 😄

[sacred zodiac]

be happy its not happening tuesday

[minor gust]

We can enjoy slayer while we can before they destroy it

[zinc sonnet]

Finally arms is back, we're on here

[zinc sonnet]

name checks

[jade ember]

Hey man they'll see that 15% wasn't enough and interate right

right?

[minor gust]

Likely

[chrome lava]

its just a 15% buff boyo, it only make the worst spec slightly less worse

[karmic reef]

there is tuning on the 24th too

[chrome lava]

we needed a 30%

[karmic reef]

according to that bluepost posted a month ago

[minor gust]

Be sure to give them data by raiding as arms!

[karmic reef]

sandbagging time

by playing normally

[minor gust]

They love tuning around Warcraft logs

So get ready

[karmic reef]

they really do lol

[jade ember]

They should just make that 20% they ripped away from the UHDKs appear as our damage on the meters imho

[minor gust]

Did you raid at all as arms in TWW S3? Ik I was just so done with the game after prog I didn't bother doing arms on farm.

[queen lotus]

I'm not sure if 15% buff is meaningful

[karmic reef]

I only played arms in tww s3

[magic heron]

I'm thinking this Collosus smash buff on Tuesday is going to be a separate buff we get aside from Master of Warfare.

[minor gust]

Nice wasn't sure if you did fury at all for prog

[magic heron]

It says stacks up to 5 times which I think is separate from Master of Warfare

[smoky kayak]

it is separate from MoW

[magic heron]

yeah that's what I thought

[karmic reef]

my guild let me play what I want so I just one trick arms now

[magic heron]

That's pretty good then @smoky kayak

[jade ember]

It isn't, it's out of the gutter but still the bottom tier type beat

[smoky kayak]

I mean it would have to be, since it's consumed when Colossus Smash is cast

[magic heron]

@jade ember It's meaningful for PvP >:)

[smoky kayak]

while regular MoW isn't

[minor gust]

Huge mine wouldn't care either, but I just couldnt bring myself to pull out the arms on a boss like Dimmy

[queen garden]

thanks god

[smoky kayak]

plus regular MoW is asynchronous, when I wouldn't think this one should be

[magic heron]

I'm already doing Top damage in most of my BG's as arms. Can't wait to blow people up even faster 🙂

[minor gust]

If we were lucky the buff will be permanent. So we don't have to deal with it falling off between packs in keys

[magic heron]

Oh yeah like... maybe a 1 minute buff or something

[queen lotus]

I think we need to be able to have a certain level of competitiveness. The arm's cannot compete with anyone right now.

[magic heron]

That would be cool

[minor gust]

Cba another buff like CM only last 24 sec so any kinda extended travel drops the buff

[magic heron]

Arms AoE is pretty good. The single target is just super bad, lol.

[smoky kayak]

when is the last time we were lucky?

[minor gust]

I consider us lucky today getting an apex rework instead of just an lol aura buff

[median crag]

Theres another patch next week isn't there? 25tg or something

[nova marsh]

Okay but the ret buffs thou

[thick hamlet]

15% doesn't seem like it's enough unless other specs are getting nerfed, no?

[jade ember]

It isn't

[nova marsh]

I mean udk got a 20% aura nerf but no it isnt

[karmic reef]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/news/us/class-tuning-updates-and-what-to-expect-in-midnight-world-of-warcraft-blizzard-24243864

[smoky kayak]

typical ret, cries about being underpowered, refuses to release any sims
now watch them inexplicably be one of the strongest specs once the season starts

[thick hamlet]

and balance got 20%, was it doing worse than arms?

[grim oasis]

balance tier got nerfed also.

[lyric pier]

this balance team is terrible

[jade ember]

And they got some of their aoe dam moved into their ST I think

[median crag]

I meant balance patch sorry

[steady isle]

it will likely be. I don't think they want to buff arms AoE

[karmic reef]

there should be a balance/tuning patch on the 24

[median crag]

Keeping my copium alive til then

[jade ember]

It really reads like a buff of you that affects your entire CS. If it doesn't it is poorly worded.

Old MoW would have affected all of your damage if it was usable so it makes sense.

[smoky kayak]

hard to say based on their wording alone, but frankly it shouldn't be a big issue either way - Colossus Smash uptime is pretty dang high w/ tier

if you're pulling fast enough that adds are dying mid CS and you don't have it ready again by the next pull, then I think you should probably be doing higher key levels or making bigger pulls

[wind hatch]

NEVER STOP COPING

[smoky kayak]

that said, Arms still looks like it's gonna be 10-15% behind

[thick hamlet]

behind average? or behind bottom2?

[smoky kayak]

Behind Fury

We'll see though

[thick hamlet]

they have a lot of faith in the new apex i guess

[maiden root]

GUYS

i rerolled to ret

[dire hinge]

okidoki

[maiden root]

idk what they doing but they getting buffs

we need threaten to delete discord

to get buffs like they did

[dire hinge]

we will absolutely not be doing that

[maiden root]

https://tenor.com/view/pera-algorand-algo-hopium-copium-gif-16765445473855345349

[dire hinge]

their floating space chandelier has rotted them

[thick hamlet]

im more jealous of the fact that they got actual damage breakdown changes

i was under the impression arms had significant dmg breakdown problems as well

[vast helm]

so the new Apex 4 talent is affect to CS's enemies not CS's damage right?

[jade ember]

Yeah some aggressive targeted ST stuff woulda been cool but not gonna complain for now

[dire hinge]

yeah your next CS's debuff basically

[jade ember]

Ya it increases the % extra damage you do to them with it up

[maiden root]

@thick hamlet im telling u arms as a spec needs to file a lawsuit

this is legit discrimination

what is 15%

where is the break dow

where is the changes

[devout pewter]

I'm gonna huff some real huge copium: We're gonna get a big rework on season start!

[silk spade]

what

[maiden root]

ooft thats a big huff

but if we get reworked like frost did

oh baby

[naive crescent]

so how do you guys think we will stack up with the buffs?

[devout pewter]

this buff is just to hold us over and make it at least viable for world content for the time being and on season start we get the real deal

[minor gust]

12.05 not season start if you wanna huff copium

[vast helm]

finally we can at least be a security guard on slivermoon city.

[celest ledge]

The bottom of the stack

[thick hamlet]

okay but if you take into account the 12.0.5 ultimate reap rework TM, where do we stand then?

[devout pewter]

I didn't just huff copium, I bathed in it

[jade ember]

[chrome lava]

https://tenor.com/view/guys-laughing-jeremy-clarkson-richard-hammond-guys-laughing-at-wind-gif-13769093434704637619

[smoky kayak]

not hugely; I mean I do think Cleave is a little overbearing but it's not really a problem - all of the buttons are being used

the proposed 12.0.5 seem like they're going to create a huge fucking problem though

[minor gust]

whatever problem we have now pales in comparison with our 12.05 problems

[stable fiber]

ik im like 20 mins late

but people coping about balance druid being good lowkey

that shit was only like slightly better then arms ngl

[languid torrent]

maybe its just me but i kinda love cleave spam

[stable fiber]

they got nerfed in other ways though

so

[smoky kayak]

yeah tbf balance did get their tier set nerfed - idk how much that accounts for though

[thick hamlet]

arms getting only 15% makes me think the new apex works in the "good" way

[stable fiber]

its aight

[thick hamlet]

i don't know how effective it would be though, i don't even know how often would u make it to 5 stacks between collosus smash casts

[stable fiber]

i think itll work pretty good on ST

which is our biggest issue

heroic strike procs more on ST and while it also has desync issues for slayer it isnt as bad as colossus

[eternal edge]

What do you think about the new apex talent?

Idk if it's worth tbh

[stable fiber]

it is absolutely worth it

[eternal edge]

Raider speaking I don't think so tbh

[smoky kayak]

it's not bad

[stable fiber]

huh

[smoky kayak]

it's not going to fix Arms issues for damn sure, but it's not bad

[stable fiber]

its better in raid then m+ probably

[eternal edge]

Yeah it's obv better for sure

[quiet bramble]

arms alt got vet track weap from prey meanwhile my fury is allergic to it

[smoky kayak]

right now it's up against Fatality in ST, which is worth ~2.5% and I'd project Apex 4 to be closer to... idk 4-5% or so?

[eternal edge]

Ok def worth

I was thinking more about 2% but if it's more it's very ok

[smoky kayak]

I mean that's just a guesstimate; we'll have some hacky sims for it this weekend

[eternal edge]

Yeah GL with that

[smoky kayak]

Well I mean just on average, you're gonna get 2-3 stacks of the buff, which is +6-9% on CS, and CS has like a 65-70% uptime

so in terms of talent value, it looks like it should be pretty good

but it's certainly not gonna make up the difference for how far behind Arms is either

[twin sedge]

arms good now?

[eternal edge]

Yeah especially when others specs got buffs too yeah

[minor gust]

I am hoping its enough to at least break 90k

[stable fiber]

ugotta think about when you are pushing the button though

you usually push it when you are popping other buttons

and it buffs those other buttons by more

[minor gust]

also its hard to determine what to drop for the 4th apex point

right now its either fatal mortal wounds or bloodletting

[stable fiber]

87k lowkey my guess

[eternal edge]

Archim said fatality but idk if it was just an example or his idea

[stable fiber]

demo lock is 110k simming dps

ret is 115k

xdd

[minor gust]

well right now we dont know for sure because apex isnt updated yet in sims

[smoky kayak]

I'm pretty sure fatality is the lowest point atm, but that should be easy to figure out

multitarget builds are a little trickier

Colossus will probably drop Overwhelming Finish, Slayer probably drops the single point in Bloodborne though Martial Prowess is also an option (less AoE, more ST)

[brazen sun]

are we gonna play thane in M+ after the buffs /slayer nerfs

[minor gust]

Last sim ive seen had Slayer taking BL

[eternal edge]

Wrong channel mate

[smoky kayak]

you already were lol

[brazen sun]

sorry mb

[eternal edge]

No worries!

Happens

[brazen sun]

😄

[terse grove]

Where can i check this? Want to see the one with bear included

[eternal edge]

Can't wait to see arms still being behind other DPS spec after this patch 🤣

[stable fiber]

its paywalled rn

someone will leak it though

[smoky kayak]

dumbest shit

[thick hamlet]

this seems funny to me, was it warranted?

[eternal edge]

Good news is it will be easier now to deal with preys or delves with that buff even if it is not enough

[smoky kayak]

idk, but with how small the speed boost is, I don't think I'm gonna bother taking it anymore

if they had increased the speed boost to 45% or something, then maybe... though 90s would still feel too long imo

[spark obsidian]

that nerf was insane, 90 sec is so much

rip Piercing Howl's

[smoky kayak]

I think the fundamental problem is that its seen as strong because of its dual purpose - speeding and slowing

while those of us who only want it for one purpose (speeding) see it as mega trash now

[thick hamlet]

maybe it's a world to first thing then

because this is such a heavy handed nerf on a class that's known for having no utility

[smoky kayak]

I think it's probably a PvP thing more than anything

[thick hamlet]

keeping in mind that their initial goal for the expansion was for warriors to have more utility

[halcyon elk]

Yea gotta be pvp

[smoky kayak]

so was removing superfluous cooldowns, yet Ravager and Avatar are right there!

[thick hamlet]

rally leech removed, champion spear vacuum removed, and now piercing howl nerfed

rally MS speed also removed

100% rework in 12.9

[spark obsidian]

Its fun, lets remove.

No fun allowed

[queen garden]

none taking piercing howl over fear in pvp tho , like it wasnt even remotely an option

[smoky kayak]

tbf Rally movespeed kinda sucked

Champ Spear grip would have been absolutely goated, but we can't have nice things so

[icy atlas]

Can only be damage bots, but they don’t want to give us damage apparently :S

[smoky kayak]

hey I didn't say it was a good reason LOL

[quartz current]

do the arms buffs mean anything?

[minor gust]

it means we are better than before

[quartz current]

well yes. but is it signifigant enough to drop fury

[main creek]

Must there be winner and losers for each tuning iteration ?
There'll always be a "least viable spec", because people optimize everything they can. So in the end the only questions to me are : "Can I clear the content with X ?" and "Will I have fun doing so ?"
Fun is obviously subjective but we must, in this case, realize what is up to "numbers" and what is up to design.
The issue is right there : design is not good to me, its just a nth "fill and then spend your ressource" specs that don't bring much utility or meaningful interactions.
I wish I didn't love the fantasy of a juggernaut with a 2 handers, life would be more simple

[icy atlas]

So far, no. Fury will still be better

[quartz current]

to me theres not really a winner or loser for warrior, but im trying to raid CE this season so i wanna play whats BIS

[chrome lava]

at this point none is taking arms over anything in PVP

[gentle gyro]

+15% is such a joke

Wtf are they doin

[proper moth]

yall can come play DH with me AR is looking nice

[solar nymph]

I was like "its gonna snow before arms is playable at high level" and bitch its actually snowing right now

There's still hope

[proper moth]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/h8tze5LhQn17Zib335Mkop ST

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pQWqsy5qi8Hwbt8dVFjPxe

2 target

[smoky kayak]

Arms would perform pretty well in a hypothetical perma-2 target encounter

[scenic robin]

doesnt matter how fun the spec is to play its not fun when u get rejected by weekly vault runs just cus ur least viable spec tho

[main creek]

then maybe we don't shout out that we aint viable so we don't end up being rejected 😬

[scenic robin]

[icy atlas]

I miss Cataclysm 😆

[slow tusk]

Everyone will notice anyway when every other pull tank out DPS you

[main creek]

okay you got a point

[slow tusk]

Fury are pretty good tho

[fast wedge]

do we assume any more buffs are coming?

[scenic robin]

sadly not everyone likes fury's gameplay :C ima just go back to aug jail or smth

[bleak arrow]

has someone put together a 20 man sim where 1 group has an arms warrior and another just doesnt have warrior buff but a better top end dps, is it worth just not having the raid buff?

[severe crag]

Wish they would just stop being stubborn and revert the 25% nerf to MS and execute. Would probably be enough to call it a day.

[solar nymph]

Dont you like pressing two keys

[scenic robin]

[fast wedge]

i do not like fury at all :/

[quartz valve]

can you link that ret sim or dm me?

[strange perch]

you people play arms in m0s?

why

[minor gust]

This is the arms channel yes

[strange perch]

why do tank damage when you can do fury

[dire hinge]

why do any thing really

[summer quartz]

this guy...

[minor gust]

because theres more to a dungeon than ST

[dire hinge]

why play fury when you can play prot

[unborn canyon]

why live

[proper moth]

dont worry guys we're being balanced around an arms warrior only legendary

[unborn canyon]

[strange perch]

why got in my group and play arms and do tank damage

[minor gust]

🪤

[dire hinge]

the season isn't even out yet friend

[strange perch]

idc about season I care about my time

[proper moth]

so what you find fun is subjective

[dire hinge]

so true bestie, gotta grind out your Adventurer gear

[jade ember]

More time spent playing a spec you enjoy prolly worth more to some people than less time spent playing one you don't idk my man

[snow flame]

People play the spec they enjoy

Also tuning doesn’t matter for m0

[hushed pine]

Slayer Cleave is fun in m0s

Rage gen sucks tho

[oak kite]

that %15 all damage buff does not help. i give up. even after the nerf to unholy or devourer, both specs are ahead of arms. nope. u wont get invite from pugs for anything above an 8 i think

[slow saddle]

15%..

[plucky osprey]

People dont invite for m0 sometime 🤣 8 is reaching. Its a guild only spec or dont play sadly

[slow saddle]

Is 30,,% behind fury

Fury gets 10%

[dense sphinx]

yeah blizz cant do math

[slow saddle]

Did gap just increase?

[minor gust]

no

the gap still decreased just not as much as we thought it would thanks to them also buffing fury

[slow saddle]

I mean 10% of a number thats 30% ahead

The new cs change... i wonder if its good enough to take now🤣

Why the f was survival buffed?

[severe bison]

Same reason mage got tweaked. I guess we have our fotm classes out

[slow saddle]

I guess arms will get way more bufds then

Dno how big our buff is

[proper moth]

arms did get buffed its go play ret lol

[random ridge]

Arms buff

We so back

Everyday arms day

[stuck axle]

it feels so hard to finish sweeping strikes

before CS or SS is up again

[charred timber]

arms buff
single target 65000->75000
15%

[pliant crypt]

they buff most speks so we will be at the same spot and 15% is very low buff for arms we will still last

[stuck axle]

it feels like the colossus smash talents are really bad

why generate extra rage only to then use overpower lol

[pliant crypt]

did ppl see the buffs for retri pala one already broken spek with so many cc self heal immunity,dmg,surv , mobility this is insane

[spring vale]

After using Colossus Smash your next two Mortal Strikes incur no cooldown and cost 100% less Rage

Could be a nice capstone :)

[warm oxide]

can someone rename the channel to legs

[stuck axle]

or your next 2 slams are heroic strikes

to get some stacks very fast

[hushed pine]

Mortal Combo

[stuck axle]

and maybe deepwounds can pandemic up to 30 seconds

up from just capped at 8

[spring vale]

xd

[ancient otter]

Buff deep wounds and make colossus smash guarantee next 3 mortal strike crits

[hushed pine]

Enduring Blow would've been a better Apex 4

[spring vale]

Imagine if we still had Skullsplitter with the current Deep Wounds duration

[hushed pine]

Just sayin'

[stuck axle]

enduring blow + SL Mortal Combo

big rng fiesta

make big happy

[hushed pine]

Better than gambling to line up your cooldowns

https://tenor.com/view/kekw-kek-bttv-twitch-emote-gif-15123134

[novel belfry]

honest to god , we just gotta close the discord

[plucky fern]

idk if they ship something like 'mortal strike damage increased by 30%' it might not be that over

[slow saddle]

Naked ms nah

[slow saddle]

Man such easy solution to st problem🤣

Also where is our rage increase

[plucky fern]

yeah its a very dumb solution but they dont have time for something better

is rage even the problem

i didnt notice rage starving in m0's

[charred timber]

We need to close Discord like the Retribution Paladins.

[inner terrace]

true

we just need to remove arms guys it's over. get this spec outta here.

[slow saddle]

Yes

Esp st

Or if u press execute

[median crag]

Do we take the 4th talent now or is it still too shit

[plucky fern]

99% that we take it
idk it looks pretty good

[spring vale]

Next 2 casts doesnt imply sending them immediately, could still buff with Overpower/EP between uses 🤷‍♂️

[fringe moon]

Colossus ST comparable to Slayer now?

[minor gust]

Colo ST is better than slayers you just gotta wait for 12.05

[plucky fern]

colo st comparable to tank st

(maybe)

[slow saddle]

Very little use then

As op resets ms with battlelord

[spring vale]

If they made it the way Enh's Apex works with Crash Lightning it could be good. You get charges that simply grant a use regardless of the ability's actual cd. But I get your point, with the current interactions between MS and OP, it makes it very limiting to do anything different :(

[gray swallow]

Arms Warrior real buff calculation (Midnight S1)

People say the buff is only 15%, but it’s actually much higher when you include Master of Warfare.

Changes:
• All damage increased by 15%.
• Heroic Strike now stacks +3% damage to your next Colossus Smash (up to 5 stacks = 15%).

Since Heroic Strike is off-GCD, you can easily stack it before every Colossus Smash, meaning every burst window gets the full +15% bonus.

Because a large portion of Arms damage happens during Colossus Smash (~55–60%), that talent alone adds about 8–9% real DPS.

On top of that, using Heroic Strike more often improves rage dumping and adds extra hits, which is roughly another 4–6% DPS.

Estimated real buff:
• Global buff → 15%
• Master of Warfare → ~8–9%
• Heroic Strike interaction → ~4–6%

➡️ Total realistic DPS increase: ~28–32%.

[thick hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/what-did-i-just-read-reading-samuel-johnson-joshua-reynolds-reaction-gif-14997728

[plucky fern]

did you ask ai to do that?

hs off gcd

[carmine ginkgo]

i was thinking 25 is super generous and more likely low 20s for the top end.

32 sounds out to lunch.

[inland nexus]

I doubt HS can proc 5 times between each CS

[quaint otter]

Wait

Is hs offgcd?

[rare kite]

it is not

[blissful tree]

no its not. the old one was.

KI doesn't know new apex HS

[rare kite]

he just asked chatgpt or whatever how much increase it actually was

[quaint otter]

If it was actually offgcd

[silk spade]

nice ai slop

[carmine ginkgo]

When I heard HS was coming back, I was hoping it would be an off gcd button that buffed your next auto attack to MS levels.
Still kinda wish that was the case

[ivory harbor]

we need to delete the misinformation by Sprimee, pple who do not know may actually think that is the case

[blissful tree]

the 4/4 apex seems good but we will still facing rage problems with colossus in aoe