blizzard having the delusion that our only issue is our desire for a rework is next level problematic because if anything we have gone through some super fun reworks that were dogshit in dmg and they seem to misinterpret the dissatisfaction that the community have with "a desire to rework' rather than being dogshit in dps.
#arms
umbral badger
sharp wyvern
warriors are the last people to care about being good we just want the spec to be fun
umbral badger
i do agree with that, but ppl are getting judgmental based on history so can't blame them
sharp wyvern
and rn the only redeeming thing was reap on SD
umbral badger
warriors are the last people to care about being good we just want the spec to b...
well, that's the delusion though xd spec will never be fun if you have no spot in the society
sharp wyvern
if you dont see the design issues of arms then you are the one who is delusional
if they aura buff us by 100% the gameplay would still suck
umbral badger
no one ever claimed arms have or does not have a design issue, but fixing the design issue while maintaining below bottom performance will not make the game fun
it iwll just end up with the same spot where no one wants you in their grps
sharp wyvern
its just that every "rework" just makes the gameplay worse and it takes them 2 seaons to fix it
sharp wyvern
no one ever claimed arms have or does not have a design issue, but fixing the de...
the balance is gonna be fine for raid it always has been
umbral badger
i prefer sub-optimal design than standing in the city 7 hours waiting an invite by grps that are lower m+ rating and performance than me
sharp wyvern
tahts why no one cares about being this low rn
but the issues with the class itself
umbral badger
the balance is gonna be fine for raid it always has been
how can you even say that after what we just went through in TWW, we were nowhere near "fine" for the majority of the expansion
umbral badger
and yes i do agree that slayer arms sucked hard in the WW
TWW
i hated it
in many ways
sharp wyvern
fury exists
and fury is fine rn
we dont need arms to be good we need it to be fun
sharp wyvern
they aree both warrior specs
sharp wyvern
they play completely differently
and people just play whats better anyway
umbral badger
i don't care about the "name" of the class, i care about how they have nothing in common when it comes to play style except for some "execute identity"
and no, ppl don't play what's better anyway, some ppl either play or don't.
but we don't see the ones who don't cuz, they are not playing lol
i literally feel like puking as i try fury so i wouldn't be happy being forced into it
torn rivet
fury is just fast but boring as fuck. doesn't have that "time to shine" moment
torn rivet
its just constant dps with some ups here and there
umbral badger
neihter has arms
i do agree that slayer arms also has a bit of spammy playstyle, or at least had.
torn rivet
on arms, colossus smash or warbreaker windows feel peak
sharp wyvern
iftk doesnt exist anymore so i disagree
minor gust
but generally speaking arms is more "tacitcal" than fury
Tactical is just all in the players head. Arms hasnt required thought to play in a long time
torn rivet
What we have now, this iteration of arms is just blizzard pushing ppl out of Arms spec so they can remove it from the game
umbral badger
on arms, colossus smash or warbreaker windows feel peak
@sharp wyvern i think he is simply refering to those moments where you use a proper demolish + colossus smash and get a huge value out of it unlike anything fury can usually get, which feels more satisfiying when combined by sweeping strikes na d other stuff.
sharp wyvern
ah yes rolling the dice for the demolish crit
torn rivet
ba-ding-TOOOINK
sharp wyvern
it is about using the demolish crit in the right time and right moment
thats litteraly every spec ever
its called CD timing
umbral badger
like when a boss summons adds that require nuke and you have to build up for demolish and position correclty "with a miss window cuz of how it plays"
and then for doing that demolish correctly you get more dps than anyone else
torn rivet
yea well in all truth arms sucked in DF and tww. It massively did
sharp wyvern
if you play collosus on a boss you are already cooked
torn rivet
but it was playable, y'know
Even in colossus
it had SOME meat on the bone
now arms feels like drinking sand
sharp wyvern
if a boss had a bunch of pad sure
kindred breach
imo colossus always felt like shit to play
umbral badger
literally colossus was competitive to fury spec on some bosses literally previous raid.
sharp wyvern
because of the pad
umbral badger
no
torn rivet
brothers who gives a shit about whatever you two are arguing about
we all know arms been shit for like 10 years straight
umbral badger
some bosses was because of the pad, some bosses was because of the short burst phases where colossus can get out more burst than other warrior specs
but yes , overall arms as a totality was trahs
torn rivet
no matter from what PoV you put it, arms always sucked when you draw the line.
What is important tho, is we gotta somehow mobilize my good men
umbral badger
trash *
sharp wyvern
arms S3 DF was fun
sharp wyvern
prot is always there for you
sharp wyvern
you guys sound like you´d enjoy ret
rose ibex
Prot is super fun at least
umbral badger
remember, one of the biggest complaints of arms previous expansion is that mortal strike was hitting as wet noodles when it is supposed to be one of the hardest hitting skills in the game. ofc an arms with shitty mortal strike sucks lol
torn rivet
And it was really hitting like a napkin
umbral badger
yup
minor gust
@dire hinge the Legend himself thank you
torn rivet
buffing it with two op's and to execs only to deal less than a crit op
tawdry quail
It’s bad enough losing faith everytime they let us down, atleast leave a man his gold
arms come together
torn rivet
umbral badger
buffing it with two op's and to execs only to deal less than a crit op
not even that, it's that for mortal strike to hit insane numbers you had to meet 90000 conditionals that almost NEVER happen in actual fight
hoary palm
Why did blizz think there's nostalgia with heroic strike lol
tawdry quail
https://i.imgflip.com/amgm6l.gif
bro, i got on today n was gamin with arms and I was just imagining how it would be to have that spin taken away from sudden death proccs, that’ll be horrible
hoary palm
It never was a good ability
umbral badger
Why did blizz think there's nostalgia with heroic strike lol
probably cuz of classic wow ? who knows.
maiden moat
anyone know if its usefull to craft a PvP item ?
umbral badger
i was never super enjoyer of heroic strike , i personally think that the ability that was most representative of arms warrior in world of warcraft history was focused rage where you accumulated your power into GIGA hits.
minor gust
bro, i got on today n was gamin with arms and I was just imagining how it would ...
its back to TWW slayer. Not many people played it in keys to understand how awkward things become when you have to ignore SD procs in aoe when you know the hero tree basically revolves around SD
rose ibex
Atm when I think about iconic arms things its ss, bladestorm, and cs
fresh spire
sharp wyvern
i was never super enjoyer of heroic strike , i personally think that the ability...
we got the same kind of off gcd gameplay in DF with ignore pain
kindred breach
its back to TWW slayer. Not many people played it in keys to understand how awkw...
sd reap was great
we just never imagined we would lose it so fast
sharp wyvern
litteraly no one says mortal strike as an iconic arms button
kindred breach
sharp wyvern
umbral badger
<@102221603760271360> the Legend himself thank you
what's funny about this response, is that he failed ot mention we also do less dps than some of hte healer specs xd
tropic eagle
guys what are you all doing
sharp wyvern
cause thats gonna get changed
torn rivet
guys what are you all doing
poking my eyes because of blizzard
minor gust
yall need to close the discord
torn rivet
i can't cope with this shitty company anymore
umbral badger
we got the same kind of off gcd gameplay in DF with ignore pain
i did not play DF, i took a few expansions off at some point cuz of how disapointed i was when they wrecked legion arms.
hollow wave
Wait, did they nerf arms? Again?
minor gust
worse
minor gust
they made the gameplay worse
sharp wyvern
i did not play DF, i took a few expansions off at some point cuz of how disapoin...
you missed out on some of the best arms gameplay sad
tacit crow
Not until 12.0.5 but yeah it is a fucked choice for sure
umbral badger
you missed out on some of the best arms gameplay sad
yup, ppl told me that which makes me sad. but that's what i meant with "some ppl just quit" many of my friends just quit if their spec sucks. ESPECIALLY my rogue friends lol they just can't play anything but rogues.
tropic eagle
DF was pretty good aye
proper moth
I was like that with Warrior
torn rivet
but I don't wanna let go man
proper moth
DF I jumped i to evoker after getting the Lego first alt run
torn rivet
not playing warrior is not enjoying the game for me
sharp wyvern
stockholm syndrom
torn rivet
Well it only so happens my other somewhat favorite spec is windwalker monk
umbral badger
like ppl at some point will just lose faith, this is literally the diablo story if you guys forgot. we all was so hyped for D3, then D3 was epic fail, we get "less hyped" by D4 then they gave us "diablo immortal, don't you have phones?" and then some of us did not even LOOK AT d4
torn rivet
which is also ..kinda dogshit
proper moth
Played DH in TWW kinda coasted into Devourer
torn rivet
if arms had the fluency of windwalker but the idea of "slow and hard hitting beast"...
tawdry quail
Is it possible that they come out with a rework? Read somewhere that the class tuning changes wouldn’t be too big and just small adjustments
hollow wave
Is it possible that they come out with a rework? Read somewhere that the class t...
No
minor gust
not playing warrior is not enjoying the game for me
then dont im still gonna do normal/heroic raid next week as arms xD........ until I gotta swap to fury for mythic the week after
umbral badger
also one of my biggest problems with the current arms design, is why the fk can't they give us cleave as baseline ? i hate this shit. no one will EVER USE A WW with modern arms LoL
tropic eagle
these idiotsat blizzard have 0 idea what they are doing and Im deppresed enough IRL for this shit
sharp wyvern
arms is a spec for reclearing
sharp wyvern
when 5 arms warriors killed the last boss thats when you get to play arms
cause then there is proof of concept
tropic eagle
maybe one day theyll make something that can represent the 2H seasoned war veteran class fantasy but this aint the day
umbral badger
when 5 arms warriors killed the last boss thats when you get to play arms
and the 5 arms warriors are the ones who paid gold for a boost xd would be a funny story line.
sharp wyvern
maybe one day theyll make something that can represent the 2H seasoned war veter...
usually those just get killed of in the lore so i wouldnt want that
tropic eagle
or the decade 😂
torn rivet
usually those just get killed of in the lore so i wouldnt want that
sounds close to reality ngl
sharp wyvern
and the 5 arms warriors are the ones who paid gold for a boost xd would be a fun...
on dimensius there were 3 out of 8 boosters when i went arms the first time
kindred breach
then dont im still gonna do normal/heroic raid next week as arms xD........ unti...
isn't fury kinda dogshit in st too? better than arms but still dogshit
torn rivet
its fine
sharp wyvern
easiest top 10 ever
minor gust
isn't fury kinda dogshit in st too? better than arms but still dogshit
I mean im not in a top 50 guild im gonna play dps warrior and do my thing
sharp wyvern
the only thing i had to do is griefing my team
umbral badger
so yea, my first demand for arms, make cleave Baseline and remove WW. we should not have to go through an entire talent path to dfo the minimum dps required in m+
it's like arms without cleave does LITERALLY zero dps
torn rivet
my demand for arms: make mortal strike and cleave by default apply f**king rend
umbral badger
and for some reason we have to get it from the tree
sharp wyvern
my demand is remove talent trees and give us back shadowlands talents
torn rivet
oh yeah the giga execute would be nice
kindred breach
I mean im not in a top 50 guild im gonna play dps warrior and do my thing
true, respectable
one can dream
umbral badger
i am not even coping or trolling i don't get why is WW our baseline AOE if the dev team does not want you to use it for AOE
lol
torn rivet
and also make overpower grant rage. Like, resource generation via autoattacks is just......
sharp wyvern
if you dont have a warrior tank you are guaranteed a raid spot anyway
hoary palm
Prot does as much single target as arms
umbral badger
@sharp wyvern did you guys have previous iterations where cleave was baseline ? i did not play DF or shadowlands for example.
umbral badger
WOW so you are ALWAYS stuck with WW as baseline but is not supposed to use it cuz it sucks ? that's cool
sharp wyvern
we used ww in ST for a short while too
obsidian otter
Prot does as much single target as arms
I dont think you have to worrry most playing warrior are not even comming close to their sims even prot warriors
sharp wyvern
instead of slam
umbral badger
i mean even to this point you would do less dps pressing WW than just using mortal strike on 2 targets
sharp wyvern
depends on target count
umbral badger
on 2 + targets
torn rivet
I dont think you have to worrry most playing warrior are not even comming close ...
most of warrior dps comes from uptime, nothing else
so we get Fairly close to the sims
umbral badger
like even 5 targets in TWW you'd do less dps with WW than mortal strke with sweeping
obsidian otter
most of warrior dps comes from uptime, nothing else
yeah pressing the right buttons doesnt matter your right
sharp wyvern
i actually dont know cause ww got buffed a bunch
torn rivet
yeah pressing the right buttons doesnt matter your right
on prot? really? we gonna discuss how difficult is prot in decision making?
umbral badger
@sharp wyvern the last buff for WW in TWW was 100% and it still was much weaker than cleave , but the fact that they doubled WW dmg for arms tells the whole story.
hoary palm
Also by that logic Prot would perform better in real situations even if they simmed the same because Prot would have more uptime and an easier rotation lol
kindred breach
yeah pressing the right buttons doesnt matter your right
umbral badger
now the actual issue is, even if they fixed arms in the 18th, what are we gonna do with this reputational damage xd
torn rivet
if that happens and arms becomes good, say maybe A tier, it will reflect in dps meta => get invited ez
as we are rn, if I am seen playing arms those guys just leave
sharp wyvern
now the actual issue is, even if they fixed arms in the 18th, what are we gonna ...
fury recovered in TWW aswell
umbral badger
if that happens and arms becomes good, say maybe A tier, it will reflect in dps ...
feels like we became decent in TWW with colossus and were still not really welcome in any decent keys
torn rivet
you are completely right
we became decent, but the amount you had to work to obtain "decent" was colossal compared to any other dps
umbral badger
like the social stigma stuck on us hard in TWW
obsidian otter
on prot? really? we gonna discuss how difficult is prot in decision making?
so your saying you could go prot and out dps a warrior dps? arms?
because its that easy
torn rivet
and we are humans with limited resource. if I spend most of my focus aligning and maximizing shit to be decent, the hunter who pressed trickshot and aimedshot can outperform me because he has much more brain resource available to spend
sharp wyvern
so your saying you could go prot and out dps a warrior dps? arms?
you forget you could go battle stance as prot too
and you´d have more rage for excute phase
umbral badger
so your saying you could go prot and out dps a warrior dps? arms?
techincally all tanks "can" out dps arms warrior on ST, since they are close to arms ST.
obsidian otter
who here thinks they can out dps a arms warrior as prot? im just curious?
hoary palm
You 100% can lol
sharp wyvern
in dungeons 100%
torn rivet
I do
hoary palm
Arms sims like 1-2k more dps than Prot
obsidian otter
ok so come run a zero with me on my arms
umbral badger
and we are humans with limited resource. if I spend most of my focus aligning an...
to me i do like that part of arms, i don't mind doing more but if i do more i expect to at least be competitive. not doing more to do less.
hoary palm
In single target
umbral badger
ok so come run a zero with me on my arms
to be fair i do very well on many m0 bosses. many of them are not even ST.
sharp wyvern
ok so come run a zero with me on my arms
just do it yourself go prot hit a dummy and then go colosus and hit a dummy
kindred breach
ok so come run a zero with me on my arms
torn rivet
to me i do like that part of arms, i don't mind doing more but if i do more i ex...
Yes, its a thing I like too but going from difficult to just obscene is not a welcome thing. That also makes most arms players flop and leave a bitter taste.
Dps meta also takes in account what i've said earlier with brain resource. The easier it is for a class to dish out maximal dps, the higher it is on the ladder
umbral badger
that being said, even on 2 target boss fights we are not beating other dps classes which is annoying considered we are supposed to be the 2 target cleave spec.
obsidian otter
ill invite you what ingame name we can run a zero and test out the arms vs prot theory
sharp wyvern
torn rivet
bro's actually insane thinking he can outdps prot when prot dictates the pull and the timings lol
its not ideal testing scenario
obsidian otter
then it should be easy debunk theory why the hesitation to run?
umbral badger
Yes, its a thing I like too but going from difficult to just obscene is not a we...
yes , but again the meta would still consider taking an arms even if they are "crazy hard to play" if it pays off imo. but blizzard does not like to scale the power of class with the difficulty of it so they prefer to redesign. this is a thing we learned a very very long time ago when snapshotting was removed from ferals.
torn rivet
so there you have it
obsidian otter
let me go to protection channel and find a prot im sure one there should be good to go!
torn rivet
you have sims which basically play perfectly in the most ideal scenarios
so you can compare apples to apples
sharp wyvern
does he think he can out dps a bear tank too ?
torn rivet
does he think he can out dps a bear tank too ?
man guardian druid is crazy rn
i could not believe the dmg they pumped
sharp wyvern
they would be top 5 dps with that dmg
umbral badger
ill invite you what ingame name we can run a zero and test out the arms vs prot ...
it's not a theory though , the entire community, even top guilds rely on simulationcraft.org and the numbers are already out on it and the numbers show that arms is "slightly" higher ST dps than prot.
kindred breach
you have sims which basically play perfectly in the most ideal scenarios
sims assume you don't use any resources for defensives
on tanks
torn rivet
which is why you can't just go to m0 with an arms and prot and see which does better
kindred breach
so instead of using rage for execute you might have to use it for ignore pain and / or shield block
obsidian otter
does he think he can out dps a bear tank too ?
I just joined a druid tank group
random O group see how it goes
umbral badger
sims assume you don't use any resources for defensives
yes, but the fact that this entire thing is an argument that ppl talk about is a proof that blizzard fked up
obsidian otter
hes 241
umbral badger
normally a convo of "can a dps beat a tank" should not even be a thing
obsidian otter
they are running caverns
torn rivet
yup
dire hinge
Instead of worrying about the specifics, it’s a bit healthier to worry about how close the two are to begin with. One has a sole job of DPS and it shouldn’t even be close in the overall.
torn rivet
by all means, dps should outshine at dps. If a tank gets even remotely close to a dps then its obvious either tank's busted or that dps is trash
sharp wyvern
does data not count in here
minor gust
does data not count in here
dire hinge
Bear being in the top 6 is so funny
sharp wyvern
*top6 dps specs
torn rivet
does data not count in here
where's this data btw? I'd like to glance over
dire hinge
Yeah overall across everything
sharp wyvern
where's this data btw? I'd like to glance over
got posted in fury channel earlier
dire hinge
It’s not public, but it’s making the rounds anyways
It’s managed by Ulria who does this every season
umbral badger
good news though, if you have a bearform friend you can both join a guild and tell your GM "my bear friend will do half his dps for me and half dps as a tank"
torn rivet
cheers
sharp wyvern
this is also data before any tuning
and like always tuning is gonna be fine after a week
dire hinge
true arms is lower than that list shows 
sharp wyvern
ret is down bad
umbral badger
and like always tuning is gonna be fine after a week
"like always" xd
dire hinge
ret's fine, they're like middle of the pack iirc
sharp wyvern
"like always" xd
look at any recent raid and check statistics
the gap between specs wasnt big
torn rivet
brother, you literally cannot be employed at blizzard and say "this is fine"
umbral badger
i mean if compared to now , sure. but it was objectively big.
torn rivet
either they wanna bury the spec or it's a sick twisted surprise rework joke
sharp wyvern
rn we have a 100% dmg difference between first and last usually its more like 20% between all specs
umbral badger
i always say if we are withing the 5%-10% i can make up for it with skill and strategy
but you cannot make up for 20%
umbral badger
rn we have a 100% dmg difference between first and last usually its more like 20...
yes, and i was already against that to begin with.
scenic cedar
umbral badger
there is no world where blizzard can't EASILY reduce a 20% difference
torn rivet
based
tropic eagle
anything above 5-10% balance diff on a subscription based game asking 50+ for expansions is daylight robbery
and people keep falling for it
torn rivet
we're addicted
tropic eagle
like these spreads are beta numbers
dire hinge
especially with how blizzard makes you lock in your spec when you choose a sub 😂
tropic eagle
this should never be live
sharp wyvern
shoudl have subscribed to warlock instead of warrior
tropic eagle
Im not playing arms im not rtarded
sharp wyvern
i was a fool
umbral badger
look, i really understand the struggle devs go through and how it is virtually impossible to make every class within a 1% margin of difference. so if it's 5% to 10% i feel like they did well. but when it's 20% it clearly mean they are not really trying , maybe looking at it as a "meta shake" and i think ion said that in an intreview even ?
tropic eagle
this should be a beta state. not a live build state
any other game wouldve tanked to negative review bombing and people not playing it if it was the case
umbral badger
but it wont be after the first few weeks of mythic
that's literally the problem, i don't want to miss out on the first few week when progress, competition and the "passion to play' is at the peak LoL
sharp wyvern
i think everyone has said this is as bad as it ever was before a season start
tropic eagle
wow gets away with it because people have Stockholm syndrome
sharp wyvern
that's literally the problem, i don't want to miss out on the first few week whe...
prog for normal groups take months not just weeks
torn rivet
wow gets away with it because people have Stockholm syndrome
weird way to say addicted
i don't love blizzard, I despise blizzard
but man am I addicted to M+ and raiding
umbral badger
prog for normal groups take months not just weeks
does not matter, everyone wants to start strong. a raid is like 2-3 months even in non-competitive normal grps technically nowadays before no one cares to even try.
sharp wyvern
even if you want to push title you have to wait for turboboost before pushing
umbral badger
either way, i hope it won't be a 20% difference between top and bottom with their new "design philosophies" for midnight. no matter who is on the bottom i don't want them to be 20% + weaker
silk spade
what am I reading
hooooooly
torn rivet
sharp wyvern
rare kite
even if you want to push title you have to wait for turboboost before pushing
turbo boost is different this time. only trinkets and weapons get upgraded
proper moth
I’m thinking we don’t see any notes today boys
torn rivet
stable fiber
I’m thinking we don’t see any notes today boys
nah soon
sharp wyvern
turbo boost is different this time. only trinkets and weapons get upgraded
pretty good changee imo
proper moth
True mb
sharp wyvern
i hated farming crests halfway through the season
umbral badger
they need more time cooking the arms rework
YES! i am very hopeful arms rework will come in 18 months "copium"
sharp wyvern
18 month is guaranteed cause thats a new expac
sharp wyvern
an arms rework just means they gonna ruin it in a different way
umbral badger
new solution, make it so that ppl pay subscription based on class / spec power.
then blizzard won't be lazy xd
torn rivet
yea i think its the god damn karens in blizzard HQ hating on arms cause its very masculine
proper moth
Ms deleted from the game slam will be the new class identity ability
torn rivet
source: trust me bro
umbral badger
yea i think its the god damn karens in blizzard HQ hating on arms cause its very...
3rd wave feminsim took over the arms headquarter and they hating on arms cuz they don't know how to talk with women 🤣
torn rivet
have they seen this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/11...
lol
ahahah
umbral badger
have they seen this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/11...
the left one wins nowadays, so it can't be arms 🤣
oak kite
proper moth
I said it earlier we have a Reddit mod as our dev
tropic eagle
bro thinks arms has a dev
proper moth
It’s the warlock dev
tropic eagle
its probably the same guy as feral just chuchking random shit for us
stoic palm
bro i love arms chat XD
viscid grail
It's the only thing about arms someone can enjoy
kindred breach
bro i love arms chat XD
dire hinge
slate grail
proper moth
Well bois see you all for Tuesday’s crash out
torn rivet
no patch :(
proper moth
Nope unless it randomly drops in 30minutes but I doubt it
torn rivet
this is it
paper gulch
https://www.wowhead.com/news/master-of-whatfare-arms-warrior-issues-with-apex-talents-380741
im so glad we had a WHOLE BETA only for this article to come out for release.
torn rivet
my last copium reserves
haughty rose
https://www.wowhead.com/news/master-of-whatfare-arms-warrior-issues-with-apex-ta...
we got a wowhead article it's so joever
proper moth
Well I’m glad I stayed on my DH unfortunately
devout pewter
Skipping this travesty with my Mage aswell. Hope it'll be over soon because I want my Arms back.
proper moth
Same I can’t even get myself to level my warrior cause of how janky it feels
My muscle memory to play warrior finally broke this patch idk wtf is going on anymore
First time the class felt foreign
torn rivet
agreed
sage bison
i mean, the only things thats changed is heroic strike and SS stacks
devout pewter
And the fact that everything takes like 3 times the time to kill
sage bison
lol idk if thats muscle memory enough to make the class feel foreign
devout pewter
I leveled with fury because of that, but geared as if I were Arms, because I wanted that. But it didnt get better
proper moth
i mean, the only things thats changed is heroic strike and SS stacks
Haven’t played Warrior since end of DF
sage bison
I leveled arms, did all my m0s both weeks as arms
it doesnt feel jank, its damage is just dogshit, rage starved every start of xpac
proper moth
Decided to run DH and avoid the M+mass decline
stoic palm
thats my fear whit m+ and raid
lyric hound
tbh arms at 243 wasnt like...ok well it was dogshit especially on boss, but col m+ spec was like...ok lol
proper moth
Disagree, arms was juiced most of DF
lyric hound
it was pretty fun to play at least lol
devout pewter
it was also very fine in tww
hushed topaz
My first time playing arms was at the beginning of DF and I can tell you we were not rage starved. You pressed ignore pain just to dump rage
halcyon valve
My first time playing arms was at the beginning of DF and I can tell you we were...
And 50 cost ww in single target
vapid spire
Are we still cooked
sage bison
Disagree, arms was juiced most of DF
u mean s1 launch?
proper moth
Are we still cooked
Hold
proper moth
u mean s1 launch?
It was strong all the way through I was still mythic raiding
I can personally attest. I know nothing about TWW
hoary palm
I like when he had off GCD dumps like focused rage and ignore pain
hushed topaz
Bro id 100% take mid tier right now
hoary palm
Idk why Blizz hates it
proper moth
Abb got lopsided half way through the patch where all casters were ahead of all melee
torn rivet
Abb got lopsided half way through the patch where all casters were ahead of all ...
classic
minor gust
https://www.wowhead.com/news/master-of-whatfare-arms-warrior-issues-with-apex-ta...
I can promise you all the complaints in that article were expressed well throughout beta
sage bison
Abb got lopsided half way through the patch where all casters were ahead of all ...
i mean i guess
proper moth
Yeah
sage bison
by that i mean not rly
proper moth
Upper mid pack is still good lol
devout pewter
scraping the bottom of the barrel with our weapons
paper gulch
I can promise you all the complaints in that article were expressed well through...
The issue is that this article wasn’t publicized. Incompetence if you ask me.
proper moth
below prot
Ofc
torn rivet
The issue is that this article wasn’t publicized. Incompetence if you ask me.
the karens at blizzard paid wowhead to not publish it
minor gust
The issue is that this article wasn’t publicized. Incompetence if you ask me.
you really think blizz needs an article to go ohhhhhhhh so thats what the problem is
sage bison
blizzard just doesnt care lol, they got bigger shit to allocate resources on than fixing one spec
like housing
and how to change the name from "war"craft
torn rivet
:(
devout pewter
I'd really love to know how that one pre release nerf came to be. Not to be angry at them or something, just curious. What was the thoughtprocess there.
minor gust
The issue is that this article wasn’t publicized. Incompetence if you ask me.
The guy who wrote that article has already given all that feedback months ago. This shit is just for the player to read as many are confused to why we dont take the 4th apex point
torn rivet
proper moth
World of craft
proud heath
It's gotta be some nepo baby lead or some shit there's no way they can be this stupid
torn rivet
Yup
sage bison
I'd really love to know how that one pre release nerf came to be. Not to be angr...
id assume they have a private testing environment that has arms strong (SOMEHOW) and are trying to balance around that
sage bison
World of craft
World of Friends
proper moth
World of Friends
😂
minor gust
Arms too masculine for world of wokecraft
the name of the class is too intimidating its got the word War in it
torn rivet
friends of slaycraft or someshit
proper moth
the name of the class is too intimidating its got the word War in it
Explain warlocks 🤔
sage bison
the name of the class is too intimidating its got the word War in it
warr stocks up ?
dump it
minor gust
Explain warlocks 🤔
the shadow cabal running the anti warrior agenda.
paper gulch
you really think blizz needs an article to go ohhhhhhhh so thats what the proble...
Yes. I do believe it is necessary because of the publicity involved. But it’s ok we just want to be paid by wowhead in a timely manner so we’re gonna ignore a problem and cry about it for a year when it could have been fixed before release. That’s exactly what’s wrong with these discord communities. Fanboys and girls like yourself that refuse to accept and defend someone that only advocates for you publicly when it’s convenient
devout pewter
id assume they have a private testing environment that has arms strong (SOMEHOW)...
My thought at first was an honest mistake where they pushed a nerf and then pushed it again because afterwards in their testing without the first nerf found it still too strong etc.
But that would require them rolling that back long ago.
Your idea makes sense... maybe used some simulation that wasn't correct and had a lot more proccs than it should or something.
proper moth
the shadow cabal running the anti warrior agenda.
I think this is peak blizzard design you guys. We actually have a good looking tier set this season, but the classes dog shit.
minor gust
Yes. I do believe it is necessary because of the publicity involved. But it’s ok...
what do you think changes if that article is released lets say a month ago?
paper gulch
what do you think changes if that article is released lets say a month ago?
I think it’s more important to discuss these things during testing than it is now because the chance of it being fixed before a major patch severely diminishes.
torn rivet
Archi has clearly spoken about all those issues all the way back in the beta and look where we are
torn rivet
Blizzard does not give a shit
minor gust
LMAO
proper moth
Our problems all come from the fact that blizzard uses co pilot and not chat
torn rivet
it comes from the karens and estrogen-led ‘males’
Arms Warrior is too barbaric
=> remove
Does not fit with friends of slaycraft agenda and xalataths feet
paper gulch
THESE THINGS ARE DISCUSSED
Don’t get mad bozo. It’s not what’s being done. It’s fucking how.
bronze gale
id assume they have a private testing environment that has arms strong (SOMEHOW)...
Maybe the internal Arms player is the goat and all the others suck at their classes
torn rivet
Guys
devout pewter
Arms Warrior is too barbaric
I'd argue that would fit more into Fury.
Arms is the Leon Kennedy of WoW
torn rivet
Stop the friendly fire damn it
sage bison
Maybe the internal Arms player is the goat and all the others suck at their clas...
honestly believable
proper moth
honestly believable
True
torn rivet
We have to be together not against eachother ya smoothbrains
devout pewter
Maybe the internal Arms player is the goat and all the others suck at their clas...
You mean Critcake is WoW's internal Arms Player?
torn rivet
paper gulch
We have to be together not against eachother ya smoothbrains
Our resource is rage
proper moth
Has anyone checked to see if the one button spec is a DPS loss or not?
torn rivet
Our resource is rage
good point but dont mortal strike the allies like that
maybe demolish blizzard?
torn rivet
I'd argue that would fit more into Fury.
Arms is the Leon Kennedy of WoW
Well yes but arms is toxic masculinity because “arms” (masculine trait of having big arms and not being soy)
minor gust
Don’t get mad bozo. It’s not what’s being done. It’s fucking how.
again feedback has been presented numerous times throughout beta. What comes out of wowhead has no affect
merry scaffold
Plop, people have tried colossus and slayer in pvp? What's your feeling about it?
paper gulch
again feedback has been presented numerous times throughout beta. What comes out...
Sure it does. Otherwise wowhead wouldn’t pay
Welcome to publicity 101
merry scaffold
Plop, people have tried colossus and slayer in pvp? What's your feeling about it...
And not only that it sucks balls
obsidian otter
Plop, people have tried colossus and slayer in pvp? What's your feeling about it...
If they are not full honor set already you do good 😆 and if your full honor set
minor gust
Sure it does. Otherwise wowhead wouldn’t pay
yeah for people to read, not for blizzard to use as a guiding light
proper moth
And not only that it sucks balls
It sucks mega balls
devout pewter
Plop, people have tried colossus and slayer in pvp? What's your feeling about it...
Pin in PvP Channel says "Warrior PvP Guide: Don't play Warrior in PvP. Safe yourself the pain"
So I guess ... Fury?
paper gulch
yeah for people to read, not for blizzard to use as a guiding light
Or Gm tickets as well, right?
proper moth
BOIS
minor gust
gm tickets?
proper moth
NOTES
minor gust
thats not were feedback goes lmao
paper gulch
thats not were feedback goes lmao
When you open a GM ticket it suggests you read wowhead.
devout pewter
When you open a GM ticket it suggests you read wowhead.
I've read wowhead, it says arms is shit
lyric hound
15% aura
proper moth
grim oasis
devout pewter
LMAO
proper moth
😂😂😂😂😂😂
tepid swan
Is this good or not enough?
lyric hound
but did they nerf everything else lol...if they nerfed other shit maybe its a bigger buff right...right...right???
smoky kayak
north junco
smoky kayak
"saved"
minor gust
well Ill eat my words on the only thing they will do is aura buff
devout pewter
15% buff, totally gonna save us
proper moth
Consider a reroll lmao
lyric hound
fury got a 10% tho. lol wow
torn rivet
Login to DH guys
obsidian otter
Consider a reroll lmao
Honestly. Havoc was my second choice for season 1
proper moth
Havoc feels soooooo goo
lyric hound
i wonder what version of arms blizz plays
keen canyon
We are back boys
torn rivet
Backn’t
keen canyon
Back’ish
eternal edge
are we viable with that??? not sure tbf
maiden moat
we arent back guys
spare tree
tanks will never beat us now!
umbral badger
gz you all, exactly what i said will happen happened. they will make us "barely viable"
GZZ
maiden moat
20% from shit, is still shit
devout pewter
mage fire and arcane buffs, like they needed it lmao
eternal edge
BUT last apex talent is changed tho
sage bison
20% of doing half the damage of good specs
sharp wyvern
did arms just get more burst dmg ?
mortal niche
the 4th apex change is fake no? the ppm is so low
sage bison
its WRAPS
sharp wyvern
we are saved
proper moth
Last apex talent seems decent
mortal niche
..does it?
sharp wyvern
yes
obsidian otter
They made CS do more damage with apex it’s like they see messages randomly yet they are not really listening
sharp wyvern
its more burst during CDs
torn rivet
where does that put us roughly right now?
Above spriest
proper moth
Don’t worry guys
torn rivet
cant throw glitter on shit and call it premium chocolate…
proper moth
Unh dk 20% nerf
umbral badger
did arms just get more burst dmg ?
that ! smart guy. they did not make us much stronger overall just more bursty lol
chrome lava
floral ledge
obsidian otter
Yeah staying fury for sure
stable fiber
did arms just get more burst dmg ?
fake burst
mortal niche
its more burst during CDs
more of nothing is still nothing
night mulch
Still dog, and they tripled the cooldown of our MS util, nice 👍
umbral badger
I LITERALLY told you guys this will happen, everyone kept telling me "they will push us to the middle" they just pushed us to the C tier LOL
sharp wyvern
15% aura 15% more dmg during CDs
chrome lava
why they nerfed piercing howl, a talent no one used
sharp wyvern
still worse than fury
stable fiber
why they nerfed piercing howl, a talent no one used
this is where you are wrong
piercing howl was going to be incredibly strong
sharp wyvern
fury is pretty close to uhdk now
umbral badger
15% aura 15% more dmg during CDs
not really, cuz we don't get 5 Heroic strikes in the 30 seconds of CS off cd.
tired sinew
Most classes got more lines of changes than arms lol. I love this!
obsidian otter
We already doing almost 20k less than fury and we get 15% buff they get a 10% buff fury doing even better lol and we prolly jut took fury spot
sharp wyvern
not really, cuz we don't get 5 Heroic strikes in the 30 seconds of CS off cd.
we might hold CS then
chrome lava
piercing howl was going to be incredibly strong
in pvp was useless lol
umbral badger
we might hold CS then
cuz that's exactly what ppl want, a more shit into the design LoL
stable fiber
idk if its useless in pvp either
sharp wyvern
i cant beelieve they buffed fury
stable fiber
but u kinda have to run fear
devout pewter
We already doing almost 20k less than fury and we get 15% buff they get a 10% bu...
I doubt we got that high even with all the other buffs lol
umbral badger
brother, it's like i played htis game and this spec for so long. literally knew exactly what they will do lol
devout pewter
yeah right
spare tree
at least theres other games
devout pewter
I've seen this shit somewhere before haha
umbral badger
barely viable arms is to them THE ARMS
signal oak
How come boomie got a 20% aura increase and it was above arms and we only got a 15%?
devout pewter
barely viable arms is to them THE ARMS
T-Rex arms
proper moth
F
modern cove
are we still far away from fury?
sharp wyvern
yes
devout pewter
yes
sharp wyvern
the gap only closed by 5%
devout pewter
it's gonna be another fury season
floral hornet
Why they killing piercing howl
umbral badger
GZ GUYS DK IS ONLY 50% STRONGER NOW
floral hornet
why they doing this to me
smoky kayak
killing piercing howl is actually hilarious
stable fiber
think arms aoe is gonna go crazy
smoky kayak
if they'd made the speed buff bigger, I'd have said ok
magic canopy
DIE ARMS DIE
sharp wyvern
we even got a dev note for that
floral hornet
blizzard said no to warrior utility
devout pewter
Did they really do a 15% aura buff on a spec that does 74k dps
yup. And I did that with my 215 fire mage, who also got buffs. against my 235 fury warrior
smoky kayak
but as is, I'm not talenting that anymore lol
magic canopy
brazen jacinth
if they'd made the speed buff bigger, I'd have said ok
exactly
magic canopy
torn rivet
torn rivet
its so joeover
olive nest
devout pewter
torn rivet
Abandon ship while ye can boys
novel palm
fading isle
20% It's still not enough because it's still F at ST
umbral badger
@sharp wyvern 1 hour ago you had faith they will make it "more balanced" now we are JUST 50% weaker than a dk xd
proper moth
Warlocks avoided nerfs surprise surprise
olive nest
Actually dogshit that they bumped the 74k ST to 85k like actually lacking intelligence
With the caveat of the stacking apex buff idk that number yet..
stable fiber
arms aoe gonna go crazy my GOD
prime wyvern
if they'd made the speed buff bigger, I'd have said ok
And on a 6 yd range now? They have to be standing on you for less ms priest bubbles give
sharp wyvern
<@376786954920001536> 1 hour ago you had faith they will make it "more balanced"...
bro i dont give a fuck they buffed fury
minor gust
think arms aoe is gonna go crazy
Cleave is about to do some things considering they aura buffed arms with no cleave nerf
deft girder
slate plinth
timid elk
mortal niche
balance UNIRONICALLY GOT MORE BUFFS
yeah idk how balance got a bigger aura buff tbh
umbral badger
Warlocks avoided nerfs surprise surprise
demonlock did get nuked based on what my brother told me, but i don't care.
torn rivet
sharp wyvern
fury login
sage bison
oblique jackal
spare tree
WHAT ARE WE PLAYING
the wrong game
stable fiber
Cleave is about to do some things considering they aura buffed arms with no clea...
yeah i mean the aoe was already like relatively high, now it just got a 15% buff and then 25% extra during colossus smash
proper moth
demonlock did get nuked based on what my brother told me, but i don't care.
Nah they just shuffled the damage around
floral hornet
Least we still got pve javelin->wrecking throw silence
until next patch where they take that away too
stable fiber
this spec is gonna go crazy in m+ when you arent hitting a boss LMAO
sage bison
lmao
stable fiber
idk
mortal niche
this spec is gonna go crazy in m+ when you arent hitting a boss LMAO
but the only real part is the boss
boreal remnant
smoky kayak
And on a 6 yd range now? They have to be standing on you for less ms priest bubb...
12 w/ bcmdr though, which is fine enough
boreal remnant
me reading the patch notes
minor gust
yeah i mean the aoe was already like relatively high, now it just got a 15% buff...
yeah pretty much best case scenario for M+ its a repeat of s3 TWW strong aoe weak ST
umbral badger
yeah i mean the aoe was already like relatively high, now it just got a 15% buff...
again, don't fall into blizzard trap xd we do not get 5 heroic strikes in between CS lol
stable fiber
but the only real part is the boss
not really when you can bring shit into bosses
mortal niche
not really when you can bring shit into bosses
except damage
stable fiber
again, don't fall into blizzard trap xd we do not get 5 heroic strikes in betwee...
you get like 3 or so usually
umbral badger
yup and that's being generous when we are spamming cleaves
stable fiber
it procs less in aoe though so idk
stable fiber
but with tier set it might fucking own just saying
umbral badger
maximum 3
proper moth
I don’t think rets needed this
shrewd yew
They threatened to delete the discord this time
proper moth
Bruh
devout pewter
maybe we should too lmao
sage bison
I don’t think rets needed this
RETS GOT A HONEY PACK ULTRA
WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING
timid elk
Guys I don't feel so good
sage bison
sacred ore
Warlocks avoided nerfs surprise surprise
Warlocks got nerfed
umbral badger
I don’t think rets needed this
wtf is that wall fo text, is that actually real ? lol now i gotta check the notes
devout pewter
damn seeing swifty feels weird
proper moth
wtf is that wall fo text, is that actually real ? lol now i gotta check the note...
It’s from the notes brother
woven rune
pala buffs are real sadly
devout pewter
devout pewter
There are no words
torn rivet
I have ran out of copium entirely
proper moth
I’m not sure that’s a nerf 200% increase on HoG target thy shuffled the numbers it looks like
lyric hound
think arms aoe is gonna go crazy
i feel like this too, might be pretty good in m+ lol unril tou get to the boss
muted fractal
I’m not sure that’s a nerf 200% increase on HoG target thy shuffled the numbers ...
yeah but diabolist was untouched and its like 8% behind lol
stable fiber
I’m not sure that’s a nerf 200% increase on HoG target thy shuffled the numbers ...
its a nerf bro
vast glacier
Arms still dead ?
silk spade
@smoky kayak is the 4th apex change a rework or in addition to the previous effect
stable fiber
lol
devout pewter
i feel like this too, might be pretty good in m+ lol unril tou get to the boss
I mean you could work around that pretty easily by having a ST strong class... But what really will happen is that anyone will want fury instead because it does both well
devout pewter
Arms still dead ?
fathom shoal
nimble badger
holy we're so back
torn rivet
I mean you could work around that pretty easily by having a ST strong class... B...
Or a warlock because obviously it fuckin slaps
mortal niche
olive nest
85k slammmmerrr let’s fucking gooooo
shrewd yew
Arms taking 4th Apex yet? xD
olive nest
rare kite
70k x 1.15
plus the apex buff. lets be generous and say it's a 2k buff then arms ends up at like 82k st
umbral badger
It’s from the notes brother
yes i had not looked inside the notes but now that i am looking , arms will still be one of the worst if not the worst ST. when they BUFF EVERYTHING "except the top outliners" they techincally did not change the ranking
smoky kayak
<@61282228017041408> is the 4th apex change a rework or in addition to the previ...
it reads as a rework
torn rivet
devout pewter
Or a warlock because obviously it fuckin slaps
Lets say it simpler: Anything else than arms
fresh spire
Apex sounds good.
smoky kayak
yes i had not looked inside the notes but now that i am looking , arms will stil...
that's par for the course for Blizzard
mortal niche
doesnt the rework ..delay intro fight burst (but semi fixes infight rotational burst)
vague sedge
70k * 1.15 < 140 *0.8
mortal niche
unless you just ignore it on pull
fathom shoal
i dont get blizzard, they be trolling
worldly rivet
....
fresh spire
unless you just ignore it on pull
you wouldnt care about stacks and play normally
worldly rivet
lame buffs.
fresh spire
just in keys future cs are all buffed
umbral badger
doesnt the rework ..delay intro fight burst (but semi fixes infight rotational b...
if we talking colossus i found it worst in both cases
mortal niche
you wouldnt care about stacks and play normally
so its a ..tiny meh change esp with no stacking bonuses
proper moth
Lame buffs followed by nerfs in the .5 patch lmao
devout pewter
Give it to us straight: Do you see any hope for us @smoky kayak ?
smoky kayak
yeah, world always needs janitors
torn rivet
im not ready for this
minor gust
just in keys future cs are all buffed
Works well with ME knowing your second CS in the pull is gonna truck as mobs are generall below half at that point or almost dead
native lintel
mortal niche
if we talking colossus i found it worst in both cases
I only play/like colo so 
ashen fable
Lol a small buff coupled with a utility nerf, is blizzard for real
torn rivet
is that fkn Mu online lol
devout pewter
Lol a small buff coupled with a utility nerf, is blizzard for real
While also buffing everyone else as well but about as much
silk spade
umbral badger
you wouldnt care about stacks and play normally
like their new vision for Demolish to me seems stupid, they want you to use it with "no stacks" but the way they made you want to use it is primarily because it applies deep wounds. it's like "hey lets make demolish shit to use on zero stacks but at least do something that is unrelated to the demolish identity" @mortal niche
proper moth
like their new vision for Demolish to me seems stupid, they want you to use it w...
Another reason bleeds are shite
umbral badger
it is shit, they just needed to give us a cd that grants us demolish stacks or some shit
chrome lava
well now we know why they removed reap the storm proc from sudden death
the 15% damage increase amde us too OP
ashen fable
I haven't ever played super competitively, but this os the first time i've switched mains out of shame, just the stigma alone is enough to make pugging hell with arms
mortal niche
it is shit, they just needed to give us a cd that grants us demolish stacks or s...
...avatar, reck exist
torn rivet
it is shit, they just needed to give us a cd that grants us demolish stacks or s...
No, demolish just shouldnt stack and instead be on 1min cd
valid walrus
4th apex talent now good? or only for raid
fresh spire
like their new vision for Demolish to me seems stupid, they want you to use it w...
no the change they made to demolish is so that your first one in keys and on a pull doesn't do 0 damage and can be sent earlier than 10 stacks to get it on cooldown faster
warped solstice
Some specs got a bigger buff than Arms. What is Blizzard smoking....
umbral badger
no the change they made to demolish is so that your first one in keys and on a p...
it does zero damage though, if compared to cleaves.
smoky kayak
bruh prot got buffed almost as much as Arms 
marsh estuary
oh hey maybe we will atleast be raid viable now
native nexus
Shut the discord protest incoming...
smoky kayak
oh hey maybe we will atleast be raid viable now
love your optimism
worldly rivet
It should stack up 3 times for 15% damage increase.
who is getting 5 HS's in the time before CS is up lol
smoky kayak
it's not intended to always get 5, they design these mechanics with overflow in mind
umbral badger
oh hey maybe we will atleast be raid viable now
and how are we gonna become raid viable? we got buffed from the worst spec in the game to the worst spec in the game
umbral badger
who is getting 5 HS's in the time before CS is up lol
that's what i said hte moment i saw patch notes, it's laughable.
smoky kayak
the idea is that if you're using CS on CD, it may only average 2-3, but if you are holding CS for some reason (or just go on a legendary proc streak), those extra HS bonuses don't go to waste
most stacking mechanics are built with overflow like that now
warped solstice
BRB, leveling a frost mage.
umbral badger
also, who the fk wants to be doing "average dps " during CS and "zero dps" outside of CS???????? lol
proper moth
DH was the right choice
torn rivet
DH was sleeper pick af ngl
slim iron
Will guardian still do more dps than arms??
worldly rivet
most stacking mechanics are built with overflow like that now
this apex completely ignores AOE.
valid walrus
oh lul the 20% unholy nerf
proper moth
So vindicated
torn rivet
Thank god I went survival hunter
warped solstice
I have a geared Druid that I'll likely end up playing this tier. Sadge.
umbral badger
remember you guys that THEY DID THIS to us in TWW when we were like 30% behind and they gave us a 9% aura buff
we stayed bottom 2 spec
even after buff
bleak arrow
bruh prot got buffed almost as much as Arms <:dracthyr_crylaugh:1002363125280030...
didn't prot already sim higher than arms?
slim iron
lyric hound
cant suck again if we never stopped sucking to begin with
chrome lava
torn rivet
grizzled stump
Not saying much but I assume Arms will be going colossus for the most least damage?
smoky kayak
it definitely got better, just not by a particularly huge amount
umbral badger
Not saying much but I assume Arms will be going colossus for the most least dama...
what do you mean xd
smoky kayak
the new apex should be pretty good though
devout pewter
silverlining and such
grizzled stump
what do you mean xd
Lol is it Colossus to do the most damage that is still the least damage out of all the specs?
arctic iris
I don’t think rets needed this
umbral badger
the new apex should be pretty good though
i hate the new apex because i see it as their justification for the shitty buff / change lol
prisma bobcat
dog tier to -> god tier? '-'
torn rivet
the new apex should be pretty good though
Idk archi it looks shit to me. 6% extra damage on CS window on average is garbo
hushed pine
Wording's a bit weird. Does this mean it now increases CS effect on top of reducing its cd? Or just increasing its effect?
devout pewter
any way we can sim the changes?
minor gust
the new apex should be pretty good though
I remember suggesting it the day the apex was released. Glad to see they went with it TY for spreading it to them
umbral badger
Lol is it Colossus to do the most damage that is still the least damage out of a...
probably you go collossus to do great aoe dps and find some S+ ST m+ meta class in your party to carry you on bosses lol
halcyon valve
15% aura buff 🤡
umbral badger
and in raid, probably gotta go fury.
hoary palm
So we went from doing tank dps to doing just barely above tank dps
gusty oxide
15+15 during colossus smash at 5 stacks
weak rain
15% aura buff 🤡
at least poor boomy(who was 20% ahead of arms) got 20% aura and every spell tunning too
umbral badger
any way we can sim the changes?
since our changes are kinda straightforward they will be roughly 18-20% ST dps at most imo
minor gust
Did anyone complain about Piercing Howl?
Blizzard complained
tall thorn
boreal igloo
Are we back?
hoary palm
Heroic strike will not proc 5 times in between colossus smashes
weak rain
Arms still probably the worst spec, just syain
devout pewter
Are we back?
back at the bottom yea
umbral badger
Heroic strike will not proc 5 times in between colossus smashes
like MAYBE IF WE MAGICALLY stack haste it will, but we then we do zero dps cuz we have no crit LoL
torn rivet
From dirt to mud woo
hushed pine
Christ, it feels like WoD all over again lmao
rare elm
No.
gusty oxide
Eh
weak rain
what are we thinking for arms buff
Stil lthe worst spec
torn rivet
Dogshit
glacial pebble
thought so
umbral badger
Christ, it feels like WoD all over again lmao
at least in WoD i was able to get world ranks by abusing some mechanics and the global drop trinket "forgot the name" i do NOT SEE a way to do ANYTHING with the current midnight arms
torn rivet
Maybe 70%
slim iron
Will arms do more dps than aug??
umbral badger
is it good?
if they do 50% execute buff, it will be fine. "and no not joking" execute is doing half a slam's worth of dmg.
manic quest
guardian druids simming almost double dps of colossus arms, give that sucker 15 percent
devout pewter
It's insane how many buffs everyone else got and we're just getting base 15%
mental kernel
lmao it wasnt even good XD 30% movement speed for 4 sec is irrelevant at best<
obsidian echo
Are we happy?
warm oxide
Are we happy?
fuck no
slim iron
lmao it wasnt even good XD 30% movement speed for 4 sec is irrelevant at best<
Trueee such a weird nerf
devout pewter
Are we happy?
Yes, happy to know we can play something else
eternal edge
Are we happy?
clearly not enough.
umbral badger
no one is happy, they buffed everything more than arms so arms is stuck at the exact same location
mental kernel
make it 70% at least idk
fervent stratus
is someone here good at math? what is 15% of nothing
gusty oxide
15 Aura buff is not enough, the stacking buff will only matter during CS windows, i'd say it's a 20% buff overall, at best
umbral badger
what arms needed was an AURA BUFF + specific abilities buffs. like my execute does 5k dmg "noncrit" when my non-crit mortal strike does 20
IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
slate bramble
lmao it wasnt even good XD 30% movement speed for 4 sec is irrelevant at best<
literally wasn't even remotely in my mind as a possible nerf, its like they are memeing us at this point
rare elm
torn rivet
literally wasn't even remotely in my mind as a possible nerf, its like they are ...
The intern felt wild today
timid elk
This is a real head scratcher. What could they possibly be testing against internally to consider this balance
gusty nymph
Nah, it is good. You can use your warrior for housing 🤪
glacial pebble
they don't know what theyre doing
smoky kayak
Idk archi it looks shit to me. 6% extra damage on CS window on average is garbo
you get CS pretty often w/ tier though
devout pewter
rework arms
lets hope that's what they're doing and that's why we're only getting this
umbral badger
This is a real head scratcher. What could they possibly be testing against inte...
we know, they invite critcakes for testing and put him against first-day wow players then think 'OH ARMS IS OP"
bleak arrow
shut blade
arms will make a come back
devout pewter
because iirc mages back in df got the same treatment before their rework
gentle shale
man i am so hyped to find out which random ass ability gets shot next on march 24th
umbral badger
we gotta be patient i guess
for how long exactly xd we paying money for this shit xd
gusty oxide
it's the first pass right? they will do more in the following week right? ....right?
torn rivet
i hope so…
devout pewter
it's the first pass right? they will do more in the following week right? ....ri...
probably only after world first raid stuff
proper moth
got some news for ya buddy
umbral badger
it's the first pass right? they will do more in the following week right? ....ri...
we already had information that one of the upcoming passes is a nerf.
hoary palm
proper moth
thick cairn
is arms still certified deadge?
gusty oxide
i'm not talking about the 0.5 patch, it's far away
devout pewter
strange perch
RIP
torn rivet
devout pewter
i'm not talking about the 0.5 patch, it's far away
nono, that might be the patch we're gettting our next tuning
umbral badger
i'm not talking about the 0.5 patch, it's far away
sure, but it shows that they have shit vision for future balance.
warped solstice
literally wasn't even remotely in my mind as a possible nerf, its like they are ...
12 yard range so it only affects melee, but somehow it's "too strong".
gusty oxide
sure, but it shows that they have shit vision for future balance.
WW arms
icy mulch
fervent stratus
man i am so hyped to find out which random ass ability gets shot next on march 2...
shockwave's cd is a little too short if you ask me, make it 1 minute no cdr
thick cairn
wait they only reduced devourer by 4%? werent they broken?
umbral badger
shockwave's cd is a little too short if you ask me, make it 1 minute no cdr
1 min with the reductions it's too short, make it 2 mins.
torn rivet
hard to pilot too innit?
umbral badger
actually make shockwave 5 mins cd and affected by angermangamement, so 2.5 mins
warped solstice
shockwave's cd is a little too short if you ask me, make it 1 minute no cdr
Too stronk. They should just get rid of Avatar also. Who needs CDs when you're not doing damage anyway?
umbral badger
also mortal strike is too strong, make mortal strike miss the target if it crits more than 100k
twilit flare
Arms warrior after 15% damage buff
warped solstice
Being back hit rating, but only for Arms. And no hit rating on gear. 🤔
umbral badger
also make slam work with dual wield two hand, with an error message that says "ability can't be used" cuz arms can't use 2 two hands
slim iron
Welcome to c tier on the tier list boys
gentle shale
na but srsly, can someone go over to the mage discord and ask them to int buff the devs before the next tuning pass or sth
warped solstice
Welcome to c tier on the tier list boys
Solo D tier.
umbral badger
Welcome to c tier on the tier list boys
there is a very good chance we wn't even be c tier since they buffed all the C tier inhabitants lol
slim iron
fervent stratus
F -> D is technically a buff
gusty oxide
We suck less, but we're not outside of the pit
warped solstice
crude sonnet
I wonder if Metzen has something to do with it because war is involved?
eternal edge
We suck less, but we're not outside of the pit
most of all spec are buffed so it's the same statement
gusty oxide
I wonder if Metzen has something to do with it because war is involved?
Fury got a flat 10% aura buff
bleak arrow
arms warrior
gusty oxide
Fury will actualy be goated
torn rivet
Arms more like armn’t
umbral badger
in factin other words boys, we don't suck less , we just suck more at a pro level.
gusty oxide
We Armn't
warped solstice
Blizzard really saw Arms so far below everyone else, and said "buff all of them".
misty vale
Does deep wounds feel like utter crap to everyone else?
hybrid depot
worldly rivet
kind of crazy seeing the ret changes
umbral badger
Arms more like armn’t
that killed me for some reason , i read it as "more likes arm nuts"
worldly rivet
and then seeing arms
warped solstice
Does deep wounds feel like utter crap to everyone else?
Yes. All the bleeds suck.
twilit flare
Ive never been more happy, they notice us
rare kite
kind of crazy seeing the ret changes
is it a big buff? i don't know shit about ret
chrome lava
wait for tier and .5 buff
.5 gonna be more nerfs though
misty vale
Having to spend 2 points into bloodborne to get Battlelord is such a feelsbad
warped solstice
Ive never been more happy, they notice us
Balance got a 20% aura buff though. 😂
weak rain
Balance got a 20% aura buff though. 😂
more
chrome lava
sudden death not procing reap makes slayer worse
umbral badger
is it a big buff? i don't know shit about ret
IDC at least if they gave us a wall of text we would feel a bit more cared for LoL even if it was a fake wall of text.
gusty oxide
Balance got a 20% aura buff though. 😂
And spell changes
modest quail
.5 gonna be more nerfs though <:keks:936231610850897992>
Ret is back.
devout pewter
Ive never been more happy, they notice us
yeah, really happy that will put us BARELY over tanks now
torn rivet
Odd
misty vale
sudden death not procing reap makes slayer worse
Im seeing reap procs on my end
worldly rivet
is it a big buff? i don't know shit about ret
They had 13 unique buffs/nerfs. Much higher than a flat 15%.
torn rivet
I dont see in latest hotfix where they solved the bug which says “arms fucking sucks”
Blizzard fix y game
chrome lava
Im seeing reap procs on my end
that is for 12.0.5
devout pewter
I dont see in latest hotfix where they solved the bug which says “arms fucking s...
That's not until 14.0 sadly
worldly rivet
Pretty much huge buffs for Ret identifying weak and bad feeling parts of their rotation.
mental kernel
time to play rogue i guess lmao
misty vale
that is for 12.0.5
are they getting rid of it??
timid elk
well, some spec has to be at the bottom
devout pewter
Warri will now be my story main, while I actually play fully mage I guess..
torn rivet
“Arms was doing a little too well so we decided to tone it down a little”
Mortal strike damage reduced by 20%
Execute removed
Rage generated by auto attacks halved
chrome lava
are they getting rid of it??
yes
icy mulch
@smoky kayak Sorry to bug you, but I really need a clarification on this:
Arms
Master of Warfare's final rank Heroic Strike now increases the damage you deal to enemies affected by your next - Colossus Smash by an additional 3%. Stacks up to 5 times.
Is that adding to the damage of CS, or adding to the debuff it puts on targets hit? It's the wording that makes me skeptical.
umbral badger
well, some spec has to be at the bottom
it's fine to be a bottom, my friend told me he enjoys it. we , however are not even in the same room as the bottom we are just watching from the bottom floor of the next building
steep citrus
lilac mica
Its adding to the Debuff i think
torn rivet
Lmfao
warped solstice
<@61282228017041408> Sorry to bug you, but I really need a clarification on thi...
"Affected by your next" reads like added to the damage increase debuff.
sharp wyvern
<@61282228017041408> Sorry to bug you, but I really need a clarification on thi...
this might not mean much but its the same wording as CS has describing the debuff/dmg amp
mental kernel
lmaaooo
coral cargo
plucky osprey
Does thos mean we will use all four master of warfare talents now?
untold pewter
<@61282228017041408> Sorry to bug you, but I really need a clarification on thi...
CS is +30%, now it can be +45% if you heroic strike 5 times before it
loud raptor
Are we back boys
gusty oxide
no, not even close
torn rivet
Back to voidwalker dps
untold pewter
Are we back boys
Yes we're back to Fury or bench
hoary palm
Blizz doesn’t give a damn about arms. They did a lazy +15% aura and we’re still the worst dps
thick cairn
rejoice brothers, buffs have arrived, we have been saved, go forth brothers and lay waste to the new expansion. 
twilit flare
virgin fury or chad arms
rare kite
i mean arms aoe will be genuinely good now. press cleave do damage
umbral badger
Blizz doesn’t give a damn about arms. They did a lazy +15% aura and we’re still ...
same story as TWW 9% aura buff that got us from bottom to bottom 2
shy roost
Are we back boys
Arms was behind prot warrior in single target. It's unclear if this buff puts us ahead since prot also got 10% damage buff
minor gust
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/1205-slayer-arms-sudden-death-change-is-a-horrible-decision/2270878/25
Good time to advertise this. If you are upset at the state of arms and especially the future 12.05 changes express your anger in here
gusty oxide
We needed 30% aura buff + spell changes, not a ...15% aura buff and that debuff we will never see full effect since we will not be doing 5 hero strike between CSs
weak rain
same story as TWW 9% aura buff that got us from bottom to bottom 2
No, now it won't bring us to bottom 2, we still bottom 1
umbral badger
i mean arms aoe will be genuinely good now. press cleave do damage
was already good, but was funny to me that cleave was doing good dmg on ST too "during ravager"
vapid spire
plain violet
Ok so the fury aura buff is almost as big a numerical buff as the arms aura when multiplied with my sims. How big of a difference is that apex talent change going to make? There is no way blizzard thinks that Arms and fury are in comparable positions for tuning.
gusty oxide
We were bottom 1 by a big margin, we're now botoom 1 with a slightly lesser margin
vapid spire
They give us 15% and they give Ret pals THIS WHAT
hoary palm
Other poor performing classes got an aura buff AND specific spell buffs. Look at Shadow and Balance for instance
cyan oriole
You can see the effort they put into warrior. All the other classes get targetted buffs or nerfs to select spells, they get notes. Then theyre like "just give aura buff to warrior and then a lil nerf as well."
elder path
Lol every spec gets more bullet point than the two war specs combined
olive nest
I mean dude with the new apex what are we going to be at like 90k dps?
atomic chasm
Is arms still dog shit after these notes?
olive nest
Are they actually that stupid?
eternal edge
@smoky kayak first impressions of new apex talent outside of that "buff"?
agile igloo
so we alll going ret right?
tight wing
I'm just sad my Desync is gone D:
umbral badger
Lol every spec gets more bullet point than the two war specs combined
this is because fury warrior is in a decent gameplay spot based on community feedback, and arms warrior community is not important "small" , at least i believe this to be the case.
plain violet
Arms might actually be worse comparatively after this, i see the other bad specs are getting even bigger buffs
manic quest
Is Frost DK similar to Arms? maybe i can transition lol
gusty oxide
Lol every spec gets more bullet point than the two war specs combined
Fury will legit be good after that 10% aura buff
vapid spire
Lol every spec gets more bullet point than the two war specs combined
I know right, they get champagne, and we get a flat pepsi
gusty oxide
Reap nerf is a mini one
umbral badger
<@61282228017041408> first impressions of new apex talent outside of that "buff"...
good idea, but it is worded under the assumption that we do get 4-5 heroic strikes in between CS which is not the case.
tight wing
oh yeah this and then we'll get a 13%(ish) ST damage nerf with the .5
topaz python
good idea, but it is worded under the assumption that we do get 4-5 heroic strik...
i barely get 2 or 3 procs between CS
also nothing been stated about aoe abilites not proccing HS