arms

[nova marsh]

THE TOTEM DOES NO DAMAGE THOUGH

Lol

Thou ur not wrong totem management was so trash

Tww s1 your tank could troll so hard

[minor gust]

shaman has just always been the least appealing class to me out of my entire wow career

[nova marsh]

...for me thats druid

[minor gust]

just never vibed with it

[nova marsh]

Or evoker

I dislike them both pretty equally tbh

[minor gust]

I played it for a few hours and never again

evoker just isnt a part of the game in my eyes

[obsidian otter]

either sub rogue or BM hunter will be my chill spec this season less buttons with good outcome lol

[nova marsh]

I dont want to play shammy because I will not play resto or ele

[minor gust]

Dev DH will be my alt for S1

[nova marsh]

And im trying to...become not a one trick lmao

[minor gust]

shits pretty fun

[nova marsh]

Ehhhh I didnt like dev dh

Its okay.

Just...feels painfully slow

[minor gust]

its got a lot of suprising nuance to it that makes it interesting

[nova marsh]

At least reap is actually usable

Right?

[minor gust]

it is yeah its strong pretty much your main dmg

[nova marsh]

Good

The cardio was xringeb

On pre patch launch

I feel like 14 taught me id rather have static cooldowns over being reliant on uptime due it to being tied to just....having your cds

[rose ibex]

i like the concept of a battle mage and I feel retail enh shammy really nails that fantasy

[minor gust]

yeah they are prob the closest to a melee battle mage I can see that

[nova marsh]

Ehhh for me if I want a battle mage or spellblade id play 14 paladin

Always felt like that was my favorite execution of that conceot

[rose ibex]

pally just doesn't do it for me

all the floating weapons and green lantern stuff

[nova marsh]

....green lantern?

[rose ibex]

yeah. Paladin uses a lot of hardlight constructs

objects made of light

like hammers falling from sky and whatnot

or spinning around you

[nova marsh]

ahem

14 paladin

Not wow

As in id rather play a different game for a spell blade/battle mage currently lol

Also fuck ret

[rose ibex]

ohhhhh hahaa

some friends of mine really like it but the class just doesn't do it for me

[nova marsh]

I try to play ret evrey xpack

Realize I just don't like it and drop it

[rose ibex]

hmm... the enh shammy apex talent is really... lame

might decide it for me

[nova marsh]

Crash lighting for the apex is....a choice

[rose ibex]

it sounds awful

like, if it doesn't LOOK cool... blech

[nova marsh]

Its not that it's just

Them once more forcing crash into evrey build if the apex is tuned well

Such a just why choice

They already did that with sb in tww s2 cuz of the tier

I mean actually

To a degree i get it cuz of how different sb and totemic are....kind of? But its not as bad as tww because totemic wants to spend now

[wicked aurora]

I got to level 88, not sure I can finish that class lmao

[rose ibex]

the difference to me is that enh now wants to spam crash lightning basically whenever its off cd (i think), where heroic strike turns a bad button into a fun button

[foggy quiver]

Are we still unplayable? Just checking

[still fox]

arms = Remove from WoW or min. 30% buff

[tired sinew]

To MaNy AbIlItIeS bUfFiNg MoRtAl StRiKe…..

[limber apex]

Does Slam feel good to y'all?

[quiet bramble]

slam

[slow saddle]

no but nor is it supposed to

its the lowest filler we have, so it is a oh that sucks moment for sure, but i mean, if u wanna push more power into slam, u gotta take it somewhere else, so im perfectly fine with it being bad

[vast geode]

is the spec at least like, fun to play, does it flow

may just level on vibes alone and hope for fix if so

[cobalt lodge]

not really, no

it, funnily enough, suffers now from button bloat

somehow it suffered the most from the pruning and just is spinning a few too many plates. with none of them really doing anything with Arms being a bleed spec for some reason

[slow saddle]

it does not suffer from button bloat

at all

it does suffer from lacking rage which makes choices that should be YES to often no

[slow saddle]

Core rotation and stuff is awesome

[halcyon valve]

Gonna start leveling tomorrow
Gonna be a nice chill time

[slow saddle]

oh y im leveling slow AF

the questline is one of the better ones so far

i feel invested

[cobalt lodge]

for the people who leveled as arms; how bad was it? how much of a slog?

[slow saddle]

i am leveling as fury coz why not

[cobalt lodge]

is leveling as arms that bad?

[quiet bramble]

Recommend trying as urself

If shit is aaaah, fury then

[rough otter]

slayer arms is the most fun arms warrior since SL

[rough otter]

is not that bad

[fresh spire]

It feels alright just numbers suck

Cleave is a little too strong. Crushing Combo doesn't feel very fun to use.

Colossus I don't even want to spec into with this haste numbers lol

[cobalt lodge]

I was thinking of going into a execute heavy build and have most of my dungeon damage be from cleave and sweeping executes. But idk if thats viable at all

[fresh spire]

For most part for Dungeons id probs recommend dropping execute talents to pick up aoe stuff and use battlelord.
St basically do
Sd>Ms>op>rend(maintain buff>slam
Execute do
Sd>ms>execute(highrage)op>cleave>execute
Aoe
Rend(debuff maintain)Sd2>Cleave(if mass execution)>sd1>op/ms>rend

[simple lintel]

Leveling was really fun, dungeons too.

Only issue I've had is related to scaling. The closer you get to 90, the weaker you will feel when doing dungeons and out in the world. But this might be true for all classes.

[boreal remnant]

same as anything else

it's leveling

you won't notice no matter what you play

[slow saddle]

this is a fact every season ofc

[fresh spire]

I dunno about leveling this time around. I did questing all way just doing side quests too and it felt like way more of a slog compared to normal

[slender sonnet]

Levelling was painful tbh

[fresh spire]

Didn't feel as fun towards end

Felt like mobs had too much hp even as fury

[boreal remnant]

that's just scaling

[cobalt lodge]

would this seem at all playable? https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/warrior/arms/slayer/EANBRUVRFVUSZFqUBQNVVVVCZAVWQUF0CFAFFVVVUBR

basically funneling my damage into sweeping executes, cleaves and bleeds

[empty sluice]

Thats a tank st dps

But go for it I guess xd

[cobalt lodge]

isnt that arms in general?

[empty sluice]

Yea this one looks even worse imo

[cobalt lodge]

i could pick up overpowering finish for more dps in exe phase

dreadnaught is garbage rn

[plucky fern]

idk everyone talking about slayer arms but ive tried this and i just cant explain but something feels not right playing this hero spec in dungeons
BS still doing dog damage and cleave is not as strong as in colo, basically praying for SD procs to do any significant damage in aoe, also i wouldnt say that ST is much better than colossus unless you invest really heavy into execute stuff but then whats the point

[cobalt lodge]

well arms tuning in general right now is awful. you get outdpsed on single target by all tanks and a healer

[boreal remnant]

that's just not true

[jovial hare]

yeah that's kinda the issue with arms
it doesn't bring the dam

[boreal remnant]

I mean yeah they're extremely undertuned but that sounds like a massive overstatement

[plucky fern]

im just comparing colo and slayer numbers, not to other classes (we are obviously trash compared to everyone else, implying that other players know how to play)

[jovial hare]

it's hyperbole for sure

just to illustrate the point

[cobalt lodge]

literally beta sim numbers but sure

[boreal remnant]

yeah those are always accurate

[cobalt lodge]

either way i was 100% hyped to main Arms but maining it rn would just be pure grief

hoping for good enough buffs on the 17th is just pure copium

[boreal remnant]

yeah I mean you're right that currently arms is just unplayable in any competitive capacity

we hope for the best

[sage rampart]

bois, can someone tell me the ID of Rend debuff?
i m trying to make a different border color for enemies that have rends on them

on plater

[halcyon valve]

🤨 spear?

[scenic umbra]

Arms simming same as dh tank

What the fuck

[untold trench]

Arms is a 2 target spec, ofc it wont shine on 1t

[tropic crest]

I did everything as Arms. After we started farming HC with my group I decided to go and try Fury MT. The difference is incredible for now.

I really want to play arms this expansion, but atm there are some kind of fights in which we just compete with tanks

[obsidian otter]

that is true its why we shine on boss fights like Heroic Derelict Duo we 100% cleave both targets full damage

[stoic oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/gay-gay-pride-pride-lgbt-lgbtq-gif-27397657

[empty sluice]

I wish they shift power to CS, buff its dmg like 200%

[cobalt lodge]

its ~70k dps st vs 150k+ dps that locks pull

[tropic crest]

Wtf bro lol

[cobalt lodge]

if tuning stays this way, arms will just get declined from most pug content

[tropic eagle]

I fixed arms lads

I rolled a ww monk

[tropic crest]

😂

[tropic crest]

Yea, but this is very niche.
Our overall sucks sadly.

[slow saddle]

Just cleave harder?

Or what u slayer?

[quiet bramble]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1125012783277289522.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[tropic crest]

Are u serious. Wtf is this arms chat lol

[slow saddle]

Its all we can do in aoe🤣

[cobalt lodge]

well what else is there to do but meme and have fun when your spec is in the absolute gutter

[slow saddle]

Cleave is basicly 60% overall

Used in st

Its just meme worthy

In slayer it procs reap as well as mortal wounds on crit + its own dmg

Tbf if they remove sweepin strikes. Arms = frost but worse🤣

Then its ms on 1 target cleave if not

[quiet bramble]

dooming obviously

[slow saddle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/761040892970139649.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

Ive given up

[cobalt lodge]

frost actually does damage tho

[slow saddle]

We are so far behind no way in hell we get good season 1

Like its insane

Aura buff of 80% and we can compete in st with uhdk

Maybe compete

I think uhdk simmed 130? We 70K

[quiet bramble]

we're prolly dead in pvp too or will never be good

[latent moss]

isnt demo lock 140k

axaxxaxa

[slow saddle]

Yup

[latent moss]

there is no chance arms is good this patch

[slow saddle]

Like furys sub 100

[latent moss]

it will get buffed to be low end of average

[slow saddle]

I doubt fury will compete

[slow saddle]

And with a bad dmg profile its just not good

[thick kelp]

150k

[slow saddle]

Jesus

How can this go live

[thick kelp]

arms 2t is 137k

[slow saddle]

Highest spec should be 100% 100k st

[stoic oyster]

imagine not playing your favorite spec because it isnt good

just play meta

stop coping

[slow saddle]

M8 when theres 100% difference

[latent moss]

axaxaaxaaxa

[slow saddle]

Thats mad

[latent moss]

imagine ur niche is 2t cleave

and theres a spec that does more st than u do 2t

axaxaxaa

[stoic oyster]

sounds like u wanna cry about it

xaxaxaxa

[slow saddle]

I mean sweepin strikes at 100% prob a bad idea

[latent moss]

🪤

[slow saddle]

Unless they truly will let us destroy 2t

As in 100k st 200k 2t

And heres issue

3t we also duxk coz cleave

Imho make fob work on 2t

Nerf cleave and sweep a bit

Buff mortal and deep wounds

[tropic crest]

SS is fine with his cleave buff mechanic. The problem is the overall dmg.

[slow saddle]

Buff rend bleed dmg

Ye i just dont c em ever tuning it weml

When we fuck in both 2 and 3 t situations

I love the niche for 2t 100%

Esp coz most raids never have bosses stacked anyways

[tropic crest]

U have to ST during cleave cd so the SS mechanic is just perfect.
They have just to decide what playstyle should dominate, so they have to buff bleeds for bleeding build or to buff direct spell dmg or the Reaper of the storm proc rate. If the RoS proc rates becomes similar to S3 set (~67%) we would be good in M+

[slow saddle]

Nah

Ros proc rate is allready good

With sd

And broad strokes and shit, lets us cleave a lot

[tropic crest]

RoS pros rate is a shit how

Now

[slow saddle]

Hmm i sadly think the fun talents makes us worse

20% is decent

[tropic crest]

20% is a shit bro XD

[slow saddle]

Keep in mind they want col to be the better aoe

And 20% ensures reap is way stronger

Then in tww

[tropic crest]

It s not stronger at all. Just compare ur overalls % with TWW

[slow saddle]

Per hit it is

A lot

200%

[tropic crest]

If we had TWW RoS we would be good now

[slow saddle]

Fam our st is issue

Not aoe

[fresh spire]

Tbf if they buff every ability by like 25% and nerf cleave 25% I think slayer has a very solid chance to be equal with slayer

Colossus*

[obsidian otter]

the bigger issue that all the buffs in the world wont fix is players not knowing how to play arms. And people say its easy yet post runs and their doing barly 30k overall.. at our current ilv when they should be doing almost 60k overall in a heroic run

[fresh spire]

Since slayer will benefit more from the aura than colossus becuase reap is just functionally better than demolish

Probs even does more damage

[slow saddle]

Y coz demo got a 20% aoe nerf🤣🤣

[fresh spire]

[obsidian otter]

im hyped for any buff we get honestly lol

[slow saddle]

As i said blizzard tuning of arms makes nooooo sense

[fresh spire]

We will get something

[slow saddle]

At all

[fresh spire]

How we will be in the meta is uncertain

[tropic crest]

That’s the base of any talks

[fresh spire]

I'd be happy if arms is just buffed close to fury in raid so we have choice

All I want

[tropic crest]

Talking about a spec which is played at 50% of it’s potential is talking about nothing

[slow saddle]

Overalls id also a hard measure

As tank pacing matters

[tropic crest]

The fact is arms is just far from being good compared to other specs actually.
I will play it anyway, i just tried fury to see the difference and the diff is big

[slow saddle]

But at 100% same situation arms is below tanks in st

And decent in aoe

[fresh spire]

They should be able to see St isn't good. Think archi has put feedback forward about cleave being strong so hopefully they use both the stats and his feedback as proof of the specs standing

[slow saddle]

Yup

Also rebuff dreadnaught

Every1 loves it

When strong

[fresh spire]

Aura but minus cleave the aura amount. Allow fob to proc apex and give apex avatar aswell as cs i think was last feedback

Would make 4/4 good if avatar got same cdr

[obsidian otter]

if it was same in beta as it was id easily be doing 80k overall in runs currently

[slow saddle]

Yup

And it actually felt very good - the rage issues in beta

[fresh spire]

Tbf if they aura spec 30% dn will get that damage too so it will rise with cleave not moving 🙏

[slow saddle]

Until the insane nerf hammers hit

[obsidian otter]

i already do 170k aoe pulls without it and i played with it in beta so 100% would break 200k pulls in current ilv

[slow saddle]

Out of nowjere

I want cleave nerfed tbg

Tbh*

Not healthy it being this strong

[fresh spire]

Think everyone wants it to not be anymore stupid than it already is.

[slow saddle]

True, i mean ideally they just reverse all the stupid nerfs

And we got where we should be

Both dmg breakdown wise and dmg wise

?

And add a bit of rage

[obsidian otter]

its a button in aoe that procs 2x slam(Heric strike) procs reap procs slayer strike.. thats pressing cleave 1 time on 5 targets your getting 2 hits of slam a slayer strike proc reap proc and deep wounds. all with 1 button press

they could left cleave where it was at never buff cleave and it still would been good aoe paired with old OP damage

[fresh spire]

I think the talent nerfs are pretty much a nothing burder

The main nerfs we got to all skills was more of the issue

Nerf to overpowering has made the slam nodes a bit more appealing. Though it's made picking up mp a little more shitty

[slow saddle]

Only thought of those

Talent nerfs prob ok

[fresh spire]

The only talent nerf that was 100% super questionable was the master tact nerf

No fucking ides why they shot a capstone talent so hard

[slow saddle]

Just delete talent

[obsidian otter]

yeah for a capstone.. 5%

[fresh spire]

It was already pretty untakeable let alone at 5%

[slow saddle]

Yup

[obsidian otter]

they might as well just put that 5% on tactician talent so we atleast get value from it lol

[slow saddle]

Was a feel good talent

[tropic crest]

I don’t get ur point with this screenshot

[obsidian otter]

That shows what damage you do pressing cleave 1 time and nothing else all the procs you get from pressing it

[tropic crest]

I know but i don t get ur point

[obsidian otter]

It’s already a overloaded skill

It shouldn’t of gotten buffed and OP nerfed

Idk if you played beta and ran keys or not but OP was our top damage like cleave is now

Like it was doing 30-40% of our aoe for a +15 or higher key

Which also made our single target decent

Because we used OP a lot already in single target

[tropic crest]

Ok but what then? U want OP build back?

[obsidian otter]

We also didn’t have crushing combo so them adding crushing combo already would put cleave higher on the profile

It’s like they added crushing combo plus the tier set is based off cleave if you didn’t know so they want us to play cleave someone is in love with cleave at blizzard

[tropic crest]

And what’s the problem of cleave build? It is fun. It just need to be fixed in dmg numbers

[slow saddle]

Yes

No

Op build adds funnel

Cleave it self fine but just a gloryfied ms

Broad strokes should mke sweep pasdive tbh

Or 12 +12 = 24🤣👌

[obsidian otter]

When OP was strong you could go TE over Crushing combo and it still worked different play style and still got similar results you actually had more option in a build you could run. So you had a viable crushing combo cleave build or a OP aoe build. And variety is always good when it works

[tropic crest]

How

[slow saddle]

So

Dreadnaught does more st with 2 targets

[dim basalt]

Arms does not have any funnel

[obsidian otter]

When you look at these two logs damage breakdown one 152k one 159k from a +15 key overall OP on left was doing most your aoe left side is same build just with TE talent right side is same build just swap to crushing combo they added. This was before the heavy nerf to OP and MS both were pretty viable play styles played differnet but worked we was B tier the changed dropped us down to bottom tier..

[slow saddle]

Dreadnaught tbh and fob kindda are?

[tropic crest]

Does it?

[slow saddle]

Yup

[dim basalt]

The DN funnel is very whatever

[slow saddle]

M8

[dim basalt]

FOB also whatever

[slow saddle]

Its there

Bettet than nuttin

[dim basalt]

Its there and pretty dogshit compared to other specs

[slow saddle]

I mean

Only coz they nerf so hard

[dim basalt]

Like its not worth meantioning because of how little it is

[slow saddle]

Its there🤣

[tropic crest]

What is the % increase of ST with Dreadnaught

[dim basalt]

1-2 more targets isnt gonna spike our dps by 50%

[tropic crest]

Lol

[slow saddle]

I mean it spikes it 100%

Just not to mt

👌

[obsidian otter]

if they dont aura buff is the buffs will prolly get is 30% back to OP and like 10-15% back to MS.. Which will up our single target and aoe from both increases will make unhenge stronger and our single target goes up from OP and MS increase. we still will have rage issues though

[slow saddle]

Ms 20% back

Deepwounds nerf was also a meme

• the 20% execute?

[tropic crest]

Bro Arms has no funnel for real lol

[slow saddle]

Well with 3 targets mt gets free hs // slam on cleave

Cleave is used in st

[obsidian otter]

Yeah they nerfed envy thing that affected single target execute 20% MS 20% op 60% not to mention Opportunist nerf prior

[slow saddle]

And 33% dw

I mean we arent arcane or any good spec ofc

[dim basalt]

If its negligible its just not worth talking about

[slow saddle]

I mean with cleave empovernebt

[dim basalt]

It still isnt

[slow saddle]

And all theres some funnel for sure

But yeah. Its not 15% or anythin

As long as we cant farm any resource // proc shit on adds no funnelski

But it does mean keepin up ideal st rotation on big targets while killin smallies

Which isnt bad either

Somewhat prio target spec if our st wasnt so fuxkin horrid

[fresh spire]

Kinda why last feedback included fob procing apex at cost of cleave dps so ms buffs and apex is rolling more during cleave isage

[tropic crest]

Jet u shouldn’t stick to a build that was clearly a mistake
The Crushing build is clearly the one they wanted to realize, it has sinergies between spells, it isn’t just a “spam 1 button” spec.
I keep thinking it just needs the right buffs.
And i alredy said what could be buffed to let it work. They have to decide if we gonna play a Bleeding build, a RotS build or a standard build with more dmg to rotational skill.
Nothing else to say

[fresh spire]

45% on average your gcds over 5 mins are cleave

[slow saddle]

Which is dog

Id somehow prefer em to be op🤣, if op gained us rage

[fresh spire]

If apex was better that would be even higher from more frequent Cs usage

[slow saddle]

Yeah apex not talent mumbo jumbp

[fresh spire]

Cc should make the next 3 cds halfed so you weave ms or op between

Natural flow should be sped up on cleave usage from it while still keeping other things important like ms In colossus in cd

Cc is just "bad" for trying to improve the vision of arms as we're back spamming cleave even more than normal during our burst window.

Where before you did same amount of cleave basically over the Cs window compared to the first 4 gcds

[cobalt lodge]

Do you guys know by change if I can quest and queue dungeons with my alliance gf as a horde character myself?

[graceful glen]

Queue for dungeons is a no, not sure about questing

[cobalt lodge]

oh dang

that kinda blows

[tropic crest]

No

And that’s not the point anyway

My point is that “just press OP because is good without having a real spec built around it “ is not a good class concept

[fresh spire]

Op has way tons of support on the tree and hero trees for both amping it's damage aswell making it more proc based through opportunist as well as tactitian and Tactical Edge. For most part when op is strong to press the spec generally flows better as your main filler is actually powerful and feels good to press. As long as it doesn't hard devalue mortal strike in the process

Dreadnought was way too powerful before the nerfs to point overpower was just the strongest button regardless of situation. Even outpaced cleave on aoe. Was doing so much at damage aswell. It needed to be shot. But I think it might have been shot just a little too much.

Op has been nerfed so much for most part you drop nearly all the support for Op now other than 2 charges and dn when it comes to key builds

[spiral coral]

Arms is built around MS/OP(DN) and certain windows of where an ability is buffed. Not much has changed. Also whenever Arms is tuned well, most Arms players a very happy. Arms is rarely a class design problem historically.

[fresh spire]

I meannnnn it has historically had its pain points but easily overlooked by the arms only chads

[obsidian otter]

what you talking about.. you never just press OP.. ever even when it was strong you press cleave double the amount of time you press OP now lol

[fresh spire]

Functionally I think it plays better than fury right now. Just numbers stink

[spiral coral]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

Except those like… 3 season arms was better than fury

[fresh spire]

I'm sad arms was just outpaced in raid vs fury

[tropic crest]

What i meant is you re still thinking about that OP build during beta. That build imo was just a mistake blizzard has made. The class was designed to go cleave on AoE scenario, they just gave OP way too much dmg so they nerfed it a lot.

[fresh spire]

Blizzard wants the identity for arms aoe to be cleave that's just factual. But right now it's completely overshadowing the whole class identify due to no ability to proc apex. Filling so many gcds after Cs and being overwhelming in the total damage it does with reap/slam/wounds included

[tropic crest]

Bro i m talking about class design, about sinergies between spells. Opportunist has nothing to do with it and tactician is just a proc mechanic.

[shadow ibex]

idk what they can do unless they add target reqs to DN

without fob the spec doesnt work in aoe imo

[fresh spire]

Dn isn't the issue

[shadow ibex]

cleave is important no matter the dmg from that alone

im saying how can you spread the dmg out

no matter what cleave is being pressed as long as fob is the only way to actually make our apex work

[tropic crest]

They can just increase RotS proc rate and we fly. We would t need to boost cleave dmg but just to cleave to let RoTs proc, so we unlock talents for ST increased dmg.

[shadow ibex]

they did everything to make cleave only important thing. even lower stack value on each might stack is more reason to push MS back

[obsidian otter]

at this point id rather them not change profiles how it plays etc and just tune the damage honestly

[shadow ibex]

yea i dont have faith they can do that

[obsidian otter]

well good thing faith and hope go hand in hand lol

[shadow ibex]

i think cleave is gonna overshadow for this patch period

[rough otter]

probably they will only do that

[tropic crest]

What i can see is that they just designed m+ arms with very similar concepts of fury S3, with some basic differences
And that fury worked because of RotS increased proc rate

[shadow ibex]

i mean successfully move the dmg around

[tropic crest]

It s what i m saying by 1 hour lol

[quiet bramble]

bruh, it's made only for colossus

[shadow ibex]

so cleave isnt just godzilla to the spec

[obsidian otter]

CS is for all arms lol

warbreaker is now Colossus smash

[quiet bramble]

shit i mistaken it with demolish

kek

[obsidian otter]

your not wrong in that thinking though makes sense for the name for the spec lol

[rough otter]

i think they will just buff ST damage not too much, only to be idk B tier and whe will play like that for whole season

[tropic crest]

If they pump RotS/bleeds dmg, Cleave would stay the great important thing but it s dmg profile would change.
Cleave must be the AoE activation of bleedings and high chance RotS. That’s where the spec should go imo

[obsidian otter]

so make cleave apply rend and deep wounds?

[quiet bramble]

testing arms now, hope i wont go mald

[tropic crest]

There are some different ways to increase overall bleed dmg

[fresh spire]

Goal would be changing apex so fob from cleave can proc it. Nerf cleave 5-10% as a trade off as it would gain apex stacks in trade off returning the damage as damage and crit damage.
More apex procs on aoe rotation further buffs up Ms and op damage to feel more competitive.
Then add on the aura to all abilities by 20-30% while cleave doesn't get anything to further pick up non cleave buttons.
Naturally cleave will be brought down more from the trade off nerf and other skills being buffed to point crushing Combo may just outright be bad for slayer again due to other options that become available again

Apex needs to have avatar also. Would be a must take then

Bleeds In general for colossus need a huge reimaginaton at this point. The repeat nerfs just make me think they should gut cut to the bone and arterial and just return mortal Combo and ms has a chance to cast cs instead. Lean hard into the mortal strike meta

[quiet bramble]

dood hs sfx is just as aaaaah as rend

[shadow ibex]

bleeds have to go yea

[fresh spire]

Worst part is. I like execute deep wounds. I like mortal wounds. But colossus is fucking shocking for the nerfs it had to bleeds

Gotta love 15% more bleed damage after a crit omg so exciting

Was 100% in s3 btw

Colossus just at that point it's time to go back to the drawing board. Rework cm. Rework bleeds on the tree. Make demolish replace cs snd apply cs on first hit to all targets to avoid desync issues. Let am carry the cdr instead of cm

[shadow ibex]

yea i like old style deep wounds of on a crit

but they fuckin ruined it

[obsidian otter]

had mage not use it whole run lol

tank was shitty

i dont think ive eer seen mage not use it we was saying it in chat he must had it turned off

[thick hamlet]

stunned for 10 seconds after demolishing

[fresh spire]

Holy hellscream

[shadow ibex]

yea complete drawing board rework

make us a garrosh with void power

empowered whirling corruption spec

[sharp dust]

Ret moment

[obsidian otter]

if your pulling 10+ mobs in your heroics on trash pull arms is doing about 20k more dps then fury slayer which most groups do. but if the boss fight doesnt have cleave 2 targets fury does about 10k difference in single target. when you add a second boss arms does almost double what fury is doing in those fights. Like second boss in windspire arms doing 80k+ where fury is doing like 43k+

[blazing estuary]

i wish apex reduced bladestorm/ravager by 2secs insteade

[sharp dust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1400621957921374269/riparms.gif

[fossil root]

I like colossus AoE, but would like to have it in cone.

[livid cloak]

Would rather have an aoe all around you in a big radius like warbreaker

[marble valve]

probably OP but colossus smash procing Recklessness could be fun

[mossy gazelle]

Arms warrior rework road map during midnight 1. Remove stack for Demolish. Midnight expansion would end before warriors see the full 10 stacks of Demolish 2. Make Demolish instant cast and bake it Shockwave stun into it. Enemy players and even some npc mobs just walk away while warriors cast Demolish.

[obsidian otter]

i miss the talent that gave us reck when we pop avatar 🙁

crit rage regen from it was so good for arms

[thick kelp]

@fresh spire is this the last best apl

[slow saddle]

I miss when it was on cs

Remove avatar and give us that

[blazing estuary]

is 50k dps overall pretty normal for heroic right now?

[obsidian otter]

yeah should be between 50k-60k if your 215+ ilv at least will vary based on pulls and groups bigger pulls higher overall you will see

[fresh spire]

Huh?

[thick kelp]

the guy posted the sheet asking if it was the latest and best apl

but he delted his post

:(

[fresh spire]

Nah

Missing most the cleave tech I added for St and minor fixes to colossus

[marsh estuary]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1477033531430408264/armsdead.gif

[obsidian otter]

how cancer is this prot pally.. on my team guardian druid on other when did tanks pvp in arena lol

its so cancer

[dim basalt]

Annoying but doesnt do much

[obsidian otter]

druid and pally are highest damage tanks right now i watched them delete my havoc temate match before lol

within 10 s was nuts

[dim basalt]

Its unrated pvp what are you expecting

[obsidian otter]

doesnt change the tuning of it lol

[dim basalt]

You wont see them in relevant rated pvp

Prot pal has always been doing decent damage and healing but they lack enough other stuff

[obsidian otter]

blood dk holds top 100 spots in rated pvpv

[dim basalt]

Because Blizz didnt bother fixing a broken mechanic

State of pvp kekw

[obsidian otter]

pvp been that way forever lol its a fun side game to play

[dim basalt]

This seasons weapon illusion looks sick tho

Worth getting

[obsidian otter]

yeah i like it

[fast wedge]

is slayer single target competitive for raid environment or is that turbo ass as well ?

[river ridge]

Its better, but not by much. The 17th should have changes though.

[fast wedge]

where does slayer raid ST sit in relation to other classes ? 50th percentile?

better or worse? just curious

[candid pecan]

ask again after the 17th

its pretty dog now

[fast wedge]

I run with a group for m+ so im not worried about playing arms in M+...just worried my raid experience is gonna be whack .. hoping for the 17th!

[latent moss]

well. demo lock st is 2x arms st

almost

its higher than arms 2t

we are very well below the average afaik

[slow saddle]

Turbo ass

So fury has mid st at 90kish r?

[slow saddle]

So basicly half of dk

[dim basalt]

And demo sitting at around 150k

[fast wedge]

thanks, whats this from

[dim basalt]

I dont have a link to the sheet

But its usually shared before relevant content starts

[slow saddle]

So y basicly arms needs 100% aura buff b4 top dps

100%

Like just saying that... makes me cringe as 2 why we got all those st nerfs

[halcyon valve]

500 % mortal strike buff

[slow saddle]

Why not

[obsidian otter]

30% overall buff puts us to what 100k we would be up with our fury slayer !

[slow saddle]

But with a bigger dropoff when talentin aoe

[dim basalt]

30% sounds like a dream

[slow saddle]

Where fury looses nothing

Like fury looses defensive for full aoe🤣👌

[obsidian otter]

fury gonna catch stray buffs from us getting buffed lol

[slow saddle]

Yeye ofc

I mean if i could choose aura buff + buff exe and dw

I want arms to be good in exe, coz then i flex fury in aoe encounters

With little need for exe

Or just hammer dreadnaught buffs so i can slap adds with it🤣

[proper moth]

MS buff 300% make it a cone attack

[slow saddle]

Nah

Thats cleave now🤣

[proper moth]

Get rid of cleave😂

[slow saddle]

Then just delete ms, force cleave

[proper moth]

Arms should be a 3 button spec we only like hitting exe MS and CS

[slow saddle]

Kek

I love op

Just let it give us rage

With current rage tuning, that would help a lot

[delicate girder]

25/30% aura

ms buff

op generates rage

heroic strike costs no rage

fixed 😄

[jolly lily]

so we do 50% of dk's damage ahahha
ok so we definitely need a 40% aura buff to be in the middle atleast xD

[shell arch]

weapon for this mog?

[dim basalt]

30% is enough

but yeah

[obsidian otter]

try one of those

[jolly lily]

i feel like its gonna be a 20% MS buff like everytime

[dim basalt]

Probably 20% to most things yeah lmao

[minor gust]

I miss the talent that gave us reck on CS!

[slow saddle]

Y replace avatar with that

Far more interrestin cd

[smoky kayak]

that cheat sheet bug is now fixed btw, so arms has 3 builds again

[echo shard]

they're going to have to give a large buff to arms, to even remotely make up for what they're dealing with right now. It'll be interesting if the incoming tuning could possibly turn Arms intoo a POWERHOUSE!!!

[minor gust]

It wont

Once the season starts they don't do massive buffs and nerfs. It's only small ones to keep things in line. Still gonna be trash just less so as they shrink the gap from top to bottom

Best case scenario we are slightly below avg after the first month of release

[nova marsh]

And we still won't get invites

[minor gust]

Community sentiment has already declared us as the biggest piece of shit this tier ain't no saving that.

Even if we got massive buffs

[nova marsh]

Yeah

We could get buffed till we're the new udk

And id appreciate that cuz fuck that spec

[obsidian otter]

two of them in 2v2 arena on same team.. they say you will die by your sword lol because it wont save you at all

double army dots just melt you so fast lol

[untold trench]

just kill the army ghouls and VR, arms opop

[scarlet cedar]

when will the first spark be available, guys?

[dense sphinx]

next week, iirc its the quest that asks u to do 1 of each zone event

u can take the quest now but 2 are not open yet and 1 is bugged

[scarlet cedar]

thanks, mvp

[floral ledge]

can u link the sheet pls ?

[dim basalt]

brother

#arms message

[floral ledge]

oh ok didn't see

[dim basalt]

If I had to take a guess its a private sheet anyway

For now

[dense sphinx]

if its ulria again then its private sheet yeah

public when raid opens usually

[hoary palm]

New expansion same shit. Ranged dps + DKs are meta and everyone else at the bottom

[naive crescent]

what are the chances that they buff arms in a way where our M+ ST damage isnt dogwater? seems unlikely

[dense sphinx]

id chuckle if they even buff our ST to the median

[north forge]

arms needs jesus, and twice as much rage generation

[slow saddle]

Well 20% would help

[minor gust]

id be surprised if the aura buff is gonna be higher than 10%

[dim basalt]

^

[north forge]

imo, and this is vibes only, arms needs about a 15% aura buff, and then additional tuning to mortal strike, overpower, and maybe rend damage, in the order of an additional 15%

maybe even slam / heroic strike buffs

[minor gust]

and thats not gonna happen

[junior marsh]

anyone got a working rxp guide

[north forge]

no way i dont see it happening either, blizzard are too chicken shit to do that because its admission to being so far off the mark its not funny

therefore arms will be dead for another season or 3

[minor gust]

17th is basically the start so any buffs/nerfs are gonna be minor

arms at this point is basically screwed till next season. Likely more buffs will happen throughout the first 2 months of launch, but best case that puts us slightly below avg

and even then the community sentiment is already set in stone by then so if you pug for your content your screwed no matter what

[north forge]

imo, arms has been a dead spec for years which lost its identity when they let fury have bladestorm

[minor gust]

yeah thats a diff convo and one I dont really disagree with either

you cant really say what is an arms warrior supposed to be. Design is so outdated and lost

I really do think the main reason why fury is always way more popular is because it has always nailed the rampaging berserker fantasy

[slow saddle]

Fam hero talent killed arms

When u lock in bladestorm horrid choice

Arms shouldda been thane and col

Col being direct burst

[north forge]

fury has class identity, and social understanding. angry man smash smash APM APM RSI, spin roar bang. Steady realiable DPS

Arms used to be solid ST dps with an amazing AOE cooldown, these days its got consistently bad ST, weak long cooldown AOE attacks, boring consistent cleave (imo), fury does nearly everything better, and other classes do absolutely everything better

[slow saddle]

Thane sustain with emp ms

[minor gust]

I dont blame the hero talents because this problem existed long before hero talents

[slow saddle]

Sø

[shadow ibex]

i genuinely hate playing this shit without a swing timer lol

[slow saddle]

Sl arms good

Df arms good

[north forge]

colossus should have never been made, they realy gave us fyralath 2.0 after it was the worst received legendary ever

[slow saddle]

M8 col if it had st

Would be amazibg

And i loved fyralath

[minor gust]

not when demo does no dmg

colo was fun when it did dmg

[slow saddle]

That

Like colo if it was designed as burst dmg spec

[north forge]

DF S3 Arms was indeed absolutely LIT. focus on execute procs, big thunderclap and rend damage, big overpower/dreadnaught aoe pumps. The whole deal was dope

[slow saddle]

With good st duck bleeds

[slow saddle]

Only reason i raided fury, is coz fury was immortal in a raid with so much dmg

And yes arms in gen should have better st than fury

Always

[north forge]

If they could just go back to DF S3 arms as a base (mainly coz of the tier set leanings) and build from that, letting hero talents add to it, i know i'd be happy

[slow saddle]

As fury gives up nothin 2 go aoe

But the tier set

Imagine arms thane

And that affect on sd

[north forge]

REND has entered the chat. God i am hating pressing that button as slayer at the moment

[slow saddle]

Why?

Rend is fine cone aoe

Little threat good on pull when stackin

[north forge]

arms thane would be slick

[slow saddle]

Yup

Idc bout lore and shit

But the way it works tbh interacts way better with arms

[minor gust]

Thane arms lets you dual wield 1hs like WC3😎

[slow saddle]

How i feel after being baited in beta with arms

[minor gust]

just always remember there was a potential future without avatar and ravager

this is what they robbed from us

[north forge]

at this point just change ravager to be proc only like prot has and not a single person took the placed node ever

[dim basalt]

They fumbled Arms hard

[echo shard]

the worst part is everyone told them, literally everyone, and they did literaly NOTHING, while notes went out for every other class.

[minor gust]

cant go that far they did listen on a few great changes that were made during alpha/beta

they just didnt follow through on everything

[rare kite]

they did give reap on sd. goated change

[minor gust]

HS proccing on every st abillity not just op

[rare kite]

tru. slam buffing ms and not just overpower, making slam feel less ass.

[minor gust]

MP not working with cleave is nice

[rare kite]

oh, new fatality as well. i really like new fatality

[minor gust]

eh idk like its better gameplay wise, but I really thought the idea of fatality was really cool. It was just under the boot of requires tuning every patch to keep up.

I really like crushing combo. IK Archi hates it but I like the feel of it a lot after pressing CS. Any talent that makes me feel like something is happening when I press CS just is fun even if you are just pressing your already most important button 4 times in a row

[rare kite]

the idea of old fatality was cool but gameplay wise ehh i'd rather have the new one that is relevant all of the fight. ofc it's less relevant in execute phase but still

[minor gust]

yeah I just wish the rework still kept the same soul of the original talent

[rare kite]

biggest problem with new fatality is the location. needs to be swapped with EP

[grim olive]

Is arms really that bad right now or am I somehow absolutely terrible? I get out dpsed so hard in heroics lol 😭

[minor gust]

arms is bad but you should have no problem keeping up in heroics

[grim olive]

Guess I'll have to study the guide, even the tank was out dpsing me on bosses lmao

[minor gust]

well that part is true

arms ST is dog

you will be beat by a couple tanks

[marsh estuary]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1477033531430408264/armsdead.gif

[hoary palm]

Blizz only give a shit about ranged dps especially mage. 80% of dev time went to them maybe 1% to warrior

[brittle agate]

servers instagibbed

[spiral coral]

they’re literally fine.

Mage having 3 really good dps is egregious though. But, all melee specs are in a good spot, outside of arms lmfao.

Except ret pally, but, fuck them.

[devout pewter]

are we good yet? 🙁

[livid plume]

So, after switching from Fury and just wanting to give Arms a go because I love Colossus... Cleave hitting heavy on that proc for single target was something in my life I didn't know I needed. Holy shit I hope this spec gets tuned higher because I'm in love with it again.

Also, Heroic Strike feels good, the spec feels like it has flow again.

[hoary palm]

Rogue is not good

[regal dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/thegoon-bigoldgoon-ted-lasso-yes-yes-yes-yes-gif-701975896996955852

[spiral coral]

skill issue.

[hoary palm]

👍

[nova marsh]

So like

Im gonna feel like I'm throwing my keys if I dont play unholy anyways

[nova marsh]

Compared to arms?

[tender ermine]

Maybe im just picky, but I had hoped the heroic strike animation would look cool and a little unique. Kind of a shame its just a copy of execute.

It keeps the ability from feeling "fresh/new" in the rotation to feeling like a normal sudden death proc. Theres no extra joy in the spec for me I guess?

[grim olive]

Nah, that's valid, it's the cap stone, it's a proc, etc. It should be special. Feels lame to me that it's even heroic strike, my first ability I ever used as a warrior lol

[edgy solstice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1405925103933329511/a1vjj2.gif

[flint cedar]

Forgive an old man - Is there a decent ST spec that interweaves Cleave into it?

[sudden topaz]

when are the champ track renown items available?

[minor gust]

not ST but in colo M+ spec you will use cleave in st during ravager and execute with mass execution talente

[flint cedar]

Ty sir

[lethal acorn]

Is there a way to track heroic strike(slam) on the cooldown manager?

I just hit 81 and I have to look down at my bars to see the proc

[lethal acorn]

I guess the macro from Archi here helps with this #updates-midnight message

[minor gust]

you can track slam on the cdm which is the same as tracking HS

[gentle gyro]

I guess no midnight for me

Sub apparently means nothing in 2026, gotta buy a new game for 50 bucks

Could easily return after DF and play TWW

[sharp dust]

..what?

[gentle gyro]

yes, exactly

That's what everyone is telling me

[tough pond]

UH WHUT

[gentle gyro]

I got no midnight quests, at all

Completely exp locked

[quiet bramble]

huh

[quiet bramble]

you mean early access?

[gentle gyro]

Nothing to do with early access

Wasn't the game supposed to be out at 1am CET?

[nova marsh]

Yep

[lethal acorn]

I don't see slam as an icon

[nova marsh]

Ea is over

[gentle gyro]

ty

[oblique oar]

are you saying that you dont have midnight expansion bought and you thought you would get to play it with only a sub?

[gentle gyro]

Could easily play TWW

Never played on retail, started with DF, bought the game and could easily return

At least now I know

[oblique oar]

well if you bought the game back then, you bought the main version of that time which was tww

every expansion you have to buy separately

[gentle gyro]

I said I bought DF

And easily returned to TWW

[minor gust]

drop down menu bottom left click something else and you should see missing stuff known bug

[oblique oar]

i have no idea what you mean by could easily return to tww

if you mean you started to play again in prepatch, the game transitioned to midnight so you could play upto the 2nd newest expansion with only sub which was tww

[gentle gyro]

Bought a sub, got an update and started playing on tww s1 release idk what is so confusing about that

[oblique oar]

because thats not how the game works, you buy the current newest expansion to play it's content

[gentle gyro]

Thanks for clarification

[soft gust]

Is there a spreadsheet with the ST/MT damge of the arms hero specs

[lethal acorn]

Thanks so much

[weak wave]

Why is this recommended? And also why no 4/4 Apex?

[rare kite]

it's recommended coz you have perma sweep with it. i think sweep uptime is fine so i prefer the other talent. as for no 4/4 apex it's coz it desyncs cds

[weak wave]

hmm okay

[shell arch]

harandir warrior is fun 🙂

[soft dew]

Good looking?

[shell arch]

yeah, i like the animations, size
also the racial with aoe dmg/healing is cool

[soft dew]

How's the "teleport" racial?

[shell arch]

ah... it's like an extra hearthstone

[soft dew]

Ok ty

[shell arch]

there is a return mode, so you can teleport back, but i think it's a bit weird, maybe it's useful

oh there is portals to silvermoon and voidstorm in the harandir city, so it's more useful than i tough

[oblique oar]

i just macroed it to mage cookies and recuperate

[rose ibex]

hmmm I really like these arms changes. Numbers low, but the changes to the spec are fun

[soft dew]

I like the Sweeping Strikes changes

[rose ibex]

yeah me too. It feels like it is always up

[soft dew]

I don't really like Slam as a button, Heroic Strike apex talent is fine, biggest issue is the desync of CDs 🙁

[rose ibex]

that's always been kind of an arms issue :/

[soft dew]

I feel like they don't really care about Arms

We'll see if they actually do something on Heroic week

[thorn stream]

3% Aura

[nova marsh]

Just dont take point 4 and put it anywhere else. Its a dps increase anyways

[shell arch]

what exactly desync?

[soft dew]

The cooldowns, so Warbreaker and any CD reduced by Anger Management

[shell arch]

the coolest thing from arms is the 5% size

[naive sage]

Real

Would be cooler if it was 5000% and become gigantic

[shell arch]

should be like 20%

[rose ibex]

my other class was feral druid and they flipped that thing over and beat it into something I can't even recognize

certain specs are just low on the priority list I think

apex talent doesn't seem all that exciting actually, but it is at least makes a bad button to press feel less crappy

[rose ibex]

Ive been playing slayer so far. How does colossus feel?

[shell arch]

i like colossus, it buffs cleave

[rose ibex]

Yeah, and cleave is a bit more spammy now

I thought it might work really well

Like, there's that talent that makes your next 3 or so cleaves not have a cd

[obsidian lance]

How much damage does the slayer do compared to the colossus in dg? The difference is so big, to the point of choosing colossus?

[minor gust]

in the available content right now it doesnt matter

[livid plume]

This 🤌

[obsidian lance]

But in m+?

[minor gust]

basically same situation as it was in TWW. Colo is gonna do more aoe, Slayer more ST. More tuning is expected on the 17th so things can change

[cobalt lodge]

So I do have probably landed on maining Arms for midnight. What is the general consensus on a leveling build? Leverage a bit more into ST, and play slayer? Is it fun? (Regardless of performance)

[thick kelp]

Play the slayer aoe build

[minor gust]

it doesnt really matter for leveling but slayers prob gonna feel a lot smoother

[proper moth]

Good luck

[cobalt lodge]

Why aoe, wont we be fighting mostly single quest mobs etc?

[soft dew]

You could try both, but I think slayer should be more fun to play during leveling (bladestorm is pretty cool to clear mob packs)

[cobalt lodge]

Oh yeah I know, I ended up spinning a wheel with classes and specs I wanted to play until it would land on any spec twice. And it landed on Arms twice kekw

[soft dew]

You mostly want to pull multiple mobs when doing questing

[proper moth]

[cobalt lodge]

Alrighty

[soft dew]

ST builds tend to not do a lot of AoE

[minor gust]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[soft dew]

If Arms is fun for you, that's what matters anyway, just try different builds until you find what's working for you

[soft dew]

Crazy eh?

[paper summit]

how good is arms now bois!? fucking wrecking motha fuckers hard! WOOT!

[arctic hearth]

About same as tww? I Rerolled ret after a month and didnt buy midnight😅🥲 blizz gpt No idea what to do with arms

[cobalt lodge]

Getting outdpsed by tanks on single target

[umbral badger]

I WAS Literally coming to say that xd

[untold trench]

Dont worry, the content that being done it does not matter what your end potential is.

Just play Arms and know that you are very likely to top DPS either way

While you do normal dungs, remember scaling is scuffed, so once in a while you will see:

• tank doing 10x everyones damage
• a Rogue doing 1 million dps
• ppl doing 19k dps, while others do 110k

It is all just scaling that is weird. I repeat, it doesnt matter at all if you play Arms and its top end sims

Just have fun

[distant berry]

this guy knows what's up

[manic egret]

no m0 yet?

[soft dew]

After reset afaik

[slow saddle]

Thats some epic bad luck💔

[cobalt lodge]

yes, rip xd

[slow saddle]

Tbf slayers fun

[cobalt lodge]

it is but also incredibly rage starved and i feel like my unh dk does a ton more damage by just sneezing at a mob

[steel sluice]

rage starved and tank dps ST in dungeons kinda sadge, dont think ive seen arms this down bad since like what start of WoD?

[untold trench]

to be fair, in dungs everyone is tank ST

just dont pay it any mind

[sudden fox]

Is this Ulrias

[warped ether]

Can someone send the whole dps spreadsheet

[spiral coral]

Yo Hermie hope you’re well bud. Believe this is it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTxbz0VzPWK0j2_1mNqcOGX0Lgrnha3kM6wvCgossscI08I_Hk-v1_D2crjD7h6Wo-FCrnJUn4W2CWU/pubhtml?gid=1484407191&single=true

[sharp tendon]

why arms dont play with the last point in apex talents ?

[quaint otter]

becuz its bad and leads to desyncs

[sharp tendon]

alright

i guess they fix it soon

[dim basalt]

Theres no "fix" without reworking the entire thing

So at best its a 12.1 angle

[sharp tendon]

just stupid we dont use the last point thats just bad made

[dim basalt]

Even if it was used it would feel bad

[quaint otter]

13.1*

[dim basalt]

I lost track

[quaint otter]

[cobalt lodge]

Maybe Arms is higher than D tier in 13.1

[latent moss]

just make it affect avatar too

[slow saddle]

Thats a warior like rework👌

Takes at least 2 seasons to implement

[deep robin]

Incredible that they ship the spec in this state and just move on

[thick kelp]

but it aint shipped yet

the real content isnt out for like 3-4 weeks

[soft dew]

The worst part is that it wasn't that good but still got nerfed, and pretty hard.

[high snow]

the worst part is perception..
you can easily clear m+ content and raids on an arms warrior if you play with friends but the pugging scene people will not invite

just play what you like

[dim basalt]

The perception is ruined already, so unless we suddenly become a near top dps spec its doomed

[soft dew]

Yeah, the spec is clearly not in a good spot, but it's alway a "bring the player not the class" type of situation

But if you're a warrior and don't play Fury in M+, you're going to get kicked.

[naive crescent]

where can I find st and mt sims for all specs? Havent played in a few xpacs but they are usually ready on launch I think?

[soft dew]

(even in M0's as the sweaty players want to optimise everything.)

[thick kelp]

ulria will release the sheet some time soon ™

[soft dew]

There's a gdoc here: #arms message

[thick kelp]

thats for warriors only

[soft dew]

All warrior specs, still work

Who cares about the others, they're most likely ahead of us anyway

[thick kelp]

heres a screenshot thats been shared around form ulrias sheet

[soft dew]

Damn Arms is going to make me cry

[high snow]

i thought arms was for tough people

bumch of women in this discussion.

go roll a mage

[sharp tendon]

our st suck but aoe is oke not great but oke we will get some buffs and we we be alright

[dim basalt]

Insane sexism right there

[sharp tendon]

there is no rogue on sheet or a pala ret

they are below arms i guess then 😄

[dim basalt]

Theyre just not public yet

[strange perch]

Where to get the online version?

[soft dew]

Can't atm, it's not being shared yet

They're still building it and changing the last details of the APL etc

We'll have to wait a bit more, and then we get tuning on the 17th

[spiral coral]

….. they don’t want “war” in World of Warcraft. You think they want “warrior” to be good?

[glacial pebble]

Lol

What went wrong with arms

[topaz python]

couple of nerfs to the underperforming spec

[deep robin]

Void attacking a capital city seems pretty „war“ to me

[livid cloak]

Metzen only said that from a marketing perspective, that the name makes it more difficult to get in new players, nothing to do with the gameplay or story

But i know warriors dont read

[obsidian otter]

No rogue sims 🤔

[thick kelp]

sandbaggging as alwasys

[obsidian otter]

They hiding from nerfs 😂

It’s funny to because all 3 specs are performing well I was leveling my rogue since I already hit 90 on my arms and fury and had nothing to do until MOs drop they are indeed doing well 😂

[cobalt lodge]

I did hear that outlaw was very mid, and assass very energy starved

[quiet bramble]

aint subtlety doing good?

[obsidian otter]

No outlaw and sub are not mid at all in aoe single target I would say B to A tier aoe S tier for sure. Assasin not sure as I haven’t played it

[dim basalt]

Assa defo isnt that great afaik

[obsidian otter]

Sub is good it’s just very very bland chicken

[slate grail]

secret technique burst more than bladestorm on 20s cd is very balanced

[obsidian otter]

Aoe you press FoK and BP single target you press Shadowstrike and evis

And press ST only in shadow dance

That’s the whole spc 😂

[cobalt lodge]

Sub rogue is omega boring now. 2 button class in aoe and st

[dim basalt]

Still better than the Shadowdust iteration

[blazing estuary]

lmao ele shaman is insane for how easy it is as well

[cobalt lodge]

At least Arms has a decent rotation even though numbers are in the gutter

[dim basalt]

I wish Fury would feel decent

Apex sucks balls

[obsidian otter]

Yeh it’s kinda sad as I’ve played rogue since vanilla and doing dungeons in my mind I want to press another button and I’m like waiting … wondering do I just keep pressing these 2 buttons 😂 but dps meters are insane

[quiet bramble]

w-wut it aint that bad, it's just mid

[dim basalt]

Just talking about how it feels, not how strong it is

[quiet bramble]

oh

[dim basalt]

Reduced Rampage cost feels so bad because youre perma full rage

[still frigate]

Yeah Arms feels mechanically better to play imo

But holy moly give a dog a bone

[cobalt lodge]

Fury is always nice because basically no dead globals. But can become bland quickly

[obsidian otter]

I never played fury warrior until legion I was always combat rogue and arms warrior when they changed it to outlaw I made a fury warrior

[cobalt lodge]

I so badly want to main Arms but the half assed rework and current numbers just turn me away so much

[obsidian otter]

Our single target needs the help aoe isn’t bad I’m pulling 130-170k on aoe pulls currently issue is when we hit single target other classes that are doing same aoe as us still do higher single target. But they also are pressing different buttons for aoe vs single target where we press same buttons pretty much in single and aoe

So buffing single target buffs our aoe it’s double edge sword for us

But I say that like blizzard can’t figure it out yet survival hunter presses same buttons aoe and single target 😂

[cobalt lodge]

I mostly wish that execute hits harder than a wet noodle. As the OG execute phase class it feels weird to not really pump more during exe

The heroic strike procs are fun in aoe when sweeping is up

[obsidian otter]

Cleave presses HS for you in AoE it’s nice that it still cleaves when sweeping is up for sure

[cobalt lodge]

Ah yeah because it slams. Yeah its pretty nice. And slayer animations are pretty cool

Do find the apex talents a bit boring and its ridiculous that our ‘capstone’ apex talent is a damage loss currently

[obsidian otter]

Yeah I think slayer makes arms feel faster than it is which is prolly why I love slayer so much

[charred stream]

Yeah AOE is pretty busted on arms, I've seen critcake doing more damage than unholy dk and arcane mage

[obsidian otter]

Apex talents should have been separate points from skill tree that is another issue in itself but it’s only a damage loss because of that reason giving up a talent point that boost our damage

[charred stream]

but the ST is pretty much worse than tank damage atm

[obsidian otter]

Yeah I been pulling almost 200k aoe it’s nice I just hope they don’t nerf it to buff our single target

even on bosses with two bosses im doing 80k+ because i have sweeping up whole fight at 100% cleave damage

[cobalt lodge]

St damage being so low for Arms is not boding well for raid performance

[dim basalt]

Theres not even a single full ST boss in raid anyway

And Arms just tends to suck in most aoe fights

[obsidian otter]

yeah fury slayer for sure will be over arms slayer

[dim basalt]

Yeah and it wont even be close

Wouldnt be surprised if we see a mix of Thane and Slayer as well

[obsidian otter]

im sure people still gonna play what they enjoy if they are not in high end guild it doesnt matter really

[dim basalt]

ye

[obsidian otter]

pugs mentality is different story

they just think meta meta meta

im only taking meta classes

and 9/10 times you could join those groups and still out dps the people playing the meta classes as they dont really know their class and the overtune is carrying them

[cobalt lodge]

Pug mentality is one of the reasons as to why im probably not leveling my warr after all. I dont want to be declined for a ton of keys on week 1 of m+ purely because of tier lists

[obsidian otter]

its like if your a class doing 140k single target but dont know your rotation play single button and lose like 20% and your still doing 115k dps

[lyric hound]

realest shit ever said

[obsidian otter]

thats my biggest issue right there some classes like Warlock is doing the most damage with single button compared to others because of how cast time kinda cancels out that -25% GCD

[cobalt lodge]

Demo lock is also so easy to play for the immense amount of damage that it can put out

[obsidian otter]

first pull of Mag heroic fury warrior message me said i thought arms was bad. even at end of heroic he was asking me about arms. I told him i leveled both to 90 both same Ilv i would have out dps my arms warrior. he never responded lol

Like i dont just assume stuff or take peoples word I actually play both

i still use reshi cloak or ilv would say 222

i think today it will get disabled i have cloaks in my bag to replace though

[cobalt lodge]

Did you level as arms or fury?

[obsidian otter]

even when i go agasint locks in aoe most i still out dps

[obsidian otter]

I leveled both lol

arms level and fury level

i dont swap specs between characters

[cobalt lodge]

How was arms to level?

[topaz python]

god forbid seeing those substat percents, this is so sad for arms also

[cobalt lodge]

Fine or awful?

[obsidian otter]

I liked arms better personally and i was only ilv 130 on both my characters starting midnight

so i had deployment so didnt get to play last season of tww

[twilit flare]

Arms feels really strong right now, finally getting my rotation down and heroic striking my foes. Love providing the attack power buff to my guardian druid or brewmaster DPS

[obsidian otter]

yeah the low haste sucks that was without haste potion i use the 151 haste im still low like 14%

i hate being under 20% with arms feeling wise

[topaz python]

i bet starvation out of execute is even worse than execute phase on prepatch

[obsidian otter]

i dont rage starve hardly ever i dont run 35% execute phase though in my spec so im only in that phase at 20% or lower

rarely will I ever not have enough rage to use a GCD currently in my build i play

aoe your usally capped at rage constnatly

you only press execute in aoe on SD procs

outside of that your pressing cleave or overpower only and MS as fill if those two are not up

[topaz python]

aoe is fine afaik in terms of rage
but st i feel like is really awkward in that regard

[obsidian otter]

you pretty much have to run crit thinking if your running the 35% execute talent

even then its rough

[topaz python]

every single start of xpac we get the same problem

[vale gorge]

Boss damage is just unplayable for mm+

[obsidian otter]

If you plan on leveling arms let me know I ran a different build for leveling that felt better than a mythic plus build aoe focus or raid single target build was a hybrid of the two and felt good

[still fox]

kek rly?

[obsidian otter]

We got like 45 mins until mythic Os will be up

I will say this almost every guild i see has warriors High on their recruitment lol

even in game recruitment thing most guilds show needing warriors

[tropic crest]

??

[obsidian otter]

they go live on reset not seasonal ones

but the other ones

[boreal quartz]

No one uses ingame if they arent complete rancid dogshit

It's just a raidbuff spot so u need some idk man

[dim basalt]

ye Ive seen that too few days ago

[obsidian otter]

that wasnt from ingame that was forms but yeah i know

[dim basalt]

I need to change my guild soon

[boreal quartz]

Never touched Forums never will o7

[boreal quartz]

After the first M tier parses into hop for the next 2 raids ezpz

[dim basalt]

Thats prob what it will be yeah

[obsidian otter]

you never used discord recruit ?

[simple lintel]

I feel like I am struggling a bit ST wise, AoE I feel like I got the rotation down, but I am a bit lost when it comes to the nuances of the ST rotation. Running Colossus M+ build from Wowhead at the moment.

Around what range should my ST be?

Ran a Blinding Vale and heres the boss numbers

Trio 65k
Ikuzz 20k
Riua 24k
Ziekett 38.5k

[thick kelp]

Looks normal

[simple lintel]

Forgot 221 ilvl

[obsidian otter]

colossus single target is almost not there at all

[boreal quartz]

WCL / wowprog only

Post 99.9% HC logs +98ish mythic ones "lf guild" and ur chillin

[obsidian otter]

I been in same guild since vanilla but i like to look at recruitment sites lol

[boreal quartz]

Or u just know ppl cuz ur high WR

[boreal quartz]

Does a guild like that get ce

[obsidian otter]

were not crazy raiders we mythic plus more then raid

[boreal quartz]

Most mega old guilds kinda stink unfortunately

[tropic crest]

aaah are you USA?

[obsidian otter]

its just a AOTC guild

[boreal quartz]

I could never

[obsidian otter]

i normally just raid with them but I mythic plus with set team

[boreal quartz]

If i play i need a goal or i just quit again

[obsidian otter]

their goal is AOTC lol

[boreal quartz]

Probably above average for a guild from big 04

[obsidian otter]

i have set players i do mythic keys with outside that guild but i still help them

[boreal quartz]

Ig goal is relative

[obsidian otter]

i mean.. i raided with them as arms and I top the dps in our raids..

all of tww

[boreal quartz]

When ur used to aotc early its hard to go back to that

[boreal quartz]

Good players always mog bad players idk

[obsidian otter]

thats what i mean their not a top guild

[boreal quartz]

Yee

[obsidian otter]

decent players good cordination

for sure

I was a pvper they picked up long time ago after i 1v4 them lol

[boreal quartz]

If u go real demon hours

Then u make a 2nd warrior and play in a diff guild for CE or WR

[obsidian otter]

#arms message

[boreal quartz]

Log frog or just topping keys

[obsidian otter]

both warriors gear capped already

[dim basalt]

People who raid in multiple guilds are crazy

[boreal quartz]

Tmy is mentally ill

I dont raid in 1 guild cuz i dont play wow

[obsidian otter]

idk i like mythic plus pushing vs raiding personally with my military schedule and job it is easier

[dim basalt]

Tmy raids in multiple guilds?

[boreal quartz]

Game doesnt allign with job very well

[boreal quartz]

Last i know of he did ye

But he has like 400 chars

[obsidian otter]

thats why i like mythic plus easier to scedule

[boreal quartz]

RWF frog innit

[dim basalt]

ig

[tropic crest]

go get the helm

[boreal quartz]

Pull a Meeres

25 90s

[obsidian otter]

the stats on it simmed less i have it

same with why im still wearing the reshi cloak vs the 230 one i have

[tropic crest]

ye but get it and upgrade ur helm lol

[obsidian otter]

i upgrade weapons and trinket most damage boost

[dim basalt]

Cant upgrade the helmet anyway

Unless you somehow get champion crests

[tropic crest]

omg

[obsidian otter]

upgrading for ILV isnt good if stats are bad for your spec

the gain isnt worth it

[dim basalt]

Thats not true tho

[boreal quartz]

Stats matter guy

[latent moss]

used to i think

[tropic crest]

u get the champion helm and u upgrade crest free ur adventurerehelm

YOoooo

[boreal quartz]

Surely do

[native obsidian]

lol

[latent moss]

raids on some top 50 or sum 6 hours a week

[dim basalt]

Pretty sure its still ilvl > stats nowadays

[latent moss]

peak raiding hours

[dim basalt]

In most cases

[tropic crest]

well wahtever bro