arms

[nova marsh]

Yes

And it caused 48 lua errors

and multiple crashes

[obsidian otter]

I got use to blizzards in the months spent in beta lol when we didnt have it

So details bothers me now even after using it for 10+ years

[nova marsh]

I'll probally get used to it as well

I just don't like change.

[obsidian otter]

i feel that

I get moved duty stations almost every other year so im use to change lol

I wonder if Reshii Wraps will be disabled monday

honestly thought they wouldnt be active in midnight

[nova marsh]

-Kinda same ye

But I just replaced them for ilvl. I doubt they're worth that much tbh

[obsidian otter]

its still about 2.5% overall for my 90 fury warrior. even when siming it with a 224 cloak

it does about same amount as RB overall in my dungeons lol

champion track for sure should replace it

[nova marsh]

Oh so I took a dps loss lol

[obsidian otter]

The proc on it while leveling is insane so definitely not swapping it out until 90 doing a heroic throw or shatter procs it 😂

Looks like you do a moon fire attack

[regal wharf]

was arms overtuned at any point this beta

[nova marsh]

No

[devout pewter]

iirc it was as fine as it could have been

[minor gust]

Was mid performance wise all beta and kept receiving nerfs over and over again

[devout pewter]

then the nerfs arrived

[shadow ibex]

Imagine heroics and normals with pre nerf

[naive minnow]

Slam receiving that 60% dmg nerf in pvp was interesting

[shadow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-kermit-kermit-the-frog-muppets-stressed-gif-17987745

[obsidian otter]

went to rest room went afk on rock and the bird cant kill me through second wind lol

hes still chomping at me lol

[proper moth]

Bring mop second wind back

[marsh estuary]

anybody find the secret arms sauce yet

[floral hill]

March 17th

[obsidian otter]

ill have some comparison here shortly half to 90 wont take long to get full adventure gear for arms to see what its runing like in heroics without the normal scaling

fury slayer doing good though my 90 fury slayer pumping pretty decent

I could easily show you last dungeon of normal but im 89 scaling vs a druid in full bis lv 80 gear and hes still level 80 getting scaled insane lol

and hes tank

I didnt let him win though!!

[shadow ibex]

i dont think its worth putting any thought into what arms looks like atm if we assume they will tune

rn we are cleaving in ST for example

trying to compare and contrast when the spec is literally cursed until the 17th

[minor gust]

It's also normal and heroic dungeons shit don't matter and will not be accurate at all

[shadow ibex]

even if they were, there's just no way it'll be similar to the current mess after 17th

unless they just drop the ball but we are assuming they tune

[obsidian otter]

heroics isnt scaled like normals its not the same

[minor gust]

It's still heroic dungeons it's not gonna be accurate because things won't live long enough

[obsidian otter]

if your ass in heroic your gonna be ass in mythic o lol

to current scaling

[shadow ibex]

its HP of mobs and no affix and the spec def doesnt function if it is using aoe in ST

[obsidian otter]

you actually do more with affixs alot of them buff you and boost your damage

[shadow ibex]

you are gonna get a lot more casts of cleave boosted by mass execution in a key

and other specs will have time to actually press buttons

[pallid viper]

how does sweeping strikes actually work now? I can swear there is internal timer that expires the buff - is it now limited by both buff time and number of strikes?

[obsidian otter]

its based of charges used no timer

[pallid viper]

sir that means it will never expires until you use all charges. but if you press SS and wait for a minute you'll lose the buff

[sharp wyvern]

doesnt that answer your question

[minor gust]

That's why nothing matters till M+ is out. Don't gotta farm points from the noobs over normal and heroic overalls

[gentle gyro]

No

[latent moss]

it was never better than bad

[gentle gyro]

Maybe B- tier at best

[sharp wyvern]

it was above fury at some point and we cant have that

[latent moss]

not bad but below average

[iron root]

coming back to wow after last playing in s1 dragonflight. and it feels like execute is now basically just a button you only press when you get a proc? pressing it during actual execute phase feels like trolling because you are just deleting your rage

[shadow ibex]

status quo of arms

[pallid viper]

well my next question would be - why blizzard decided to hide buff time if it still matters?

[obsidian otter]

in combat it wont expire I think its a out of combat thing that makes it go away

[sharp wyvern]

cause in cleave situations you use up your stacks before the duration runs out

[obsidian otter]

your sweeping with slam when you press cleave though thats why you use the stacks

[sharp wyvern]

its called pruning
so they took your knowledge of the duration

thats why arms didnt lose any buttons

[shadow ibex]

love to see it

we're addressing the arms warrior CD stacking

[minor gust]

Pruning didn't make it all the way down to warrior

[shadow ibex]

anyway ravager and spear survived

[sharp wyvern]

warrior got a "rework"

[shadow ibex]

they thought they cooked when they reworked tact

[minor gust]

They finished warlock and were like alright that's enough we're out of ideas

[sharp wyvern]

now we have no rage cause people kept crying that rage feels cosmetic

[pallid viper]

ravager is still miles better than afk bladestorm

[shadow ibex]

no

https://tenor.com/view/tracy-morgan-no-way-gif-13427835

[sharp wyvern]

ngl bladestorm on fury owns

[shadow ibex]

bladestorm isnt just a button to buff cleave

[obsidian otter]

i like the shorter duration ngl

[shadow ibex]

as long as ravager is that idk why this exists

just clogging up my aoe set up

[minor gust]

We've been asking for fury bladestorm forever now

[obsidian otter]

6s bladestorm on arms.. like man fury pressing 3 gcds already we still spinning lol

[slow saddle]

And avatar

[minor gust]

6s bladestorm is a big reason why s2 slayer arms had the potential to run ravager instead

[sharp wyvern]

the most dmg bladestorm does is reap procs

wait does it even proc reap anymore

[slow saddle]

I mean tbf

[sharp wyvern]

[shadow ibex]

unhinged is a lot of the dmg

but thats a hero spec problem

u cant have base BS do dmg

[slow saddle]

Bladestorn used when no rage

[shadow ibex]

[slow saddle]

Ofc u can?

[shadow ibex]

not when 1 hero spec is all about bladestorm

[slow saddle]

They just arent willing to let it fuck

Remove bladestorm cdr, and just add dmg

[shadow ibex]

unless u want colossus to have a big aoe attack and a big aoe spin and there's 0 % chance that would ever happen

[slow saddle]

U cant have shortasd cds and great cds

[sharp wyvern]

nah if BS is good enough that we take it as col im just gonna play fury

[pallid viper]

man why couldn't they make one spec for and another for

[shadow ibex]

yea thats why it can never be good baseline

[sharp wyvern]

litteraly what they did

[slow saddle]

Thing is bladestorm ofc should be hero talent

[sharp wyvern]

its just that one also has demolish and the one BS

[pallid viper]

execute deals 0 damage? it is a stupid passive effect + bs

[slow saddle]

Yeah as said best hero spec for arms

Would be riders

Or thane

[minor gust]

It's a choice node with ravager you easily buff ravager dmg alongside. There's too many downsides for Colo BS for Colo to really want it.

[slow saddle]

A spec that doesnt define everything

[sharp wyvern]

delete thane

[slow saddle]

Arms thane would rock

[sharp wyvern]

i just hate it

[slow saddle]

But think if arms

[sharp wyvern]

it only fits prot

[slow saddle]

Big claos

Big fuckin ms hits

Ms resets proc

It would be awesome

[naive minnow]

They clearly just want to delete arms.

[shadow ibex]

no I want to delete arms

[sharp wyvern]

we both know it would be slam or OP

[slow saddle]

No? Bt correlation is ms

[sharp wyvern]

i just dont think they want MS do anything anymore

[latent moss]

they should get rid of ms resets

completely

[slow saddle]

No

Worst take ever

[latent moss]

sl had no resets and it owned

cause ms was tuned so high

[sharp wyvern]

MS feels so weak the most hype thing about playing arms is getting reap procs

[slow saddle]

Ehm

[slow saddle]

It did

So like

Pls

[latent moss]

what resets did it have

on ms

blord was a legendary

[shadow ibex]

it had extra hits

[latent moss]

u never played

[slow saddle]

Echo

[latent moss]

it had mortal combo

[minor gust]

Would require a big rework to the spec to make it fun. Cuz MS resets are one of the few things that keeps modern arms fun

[slow saddle]

U had free ms on ms

[latent moss]

10% chance

[slow saddle]

So saying a reset makes it weak vs a free ms

[latent moss]

or 11% or something

[slow saddle]

Nah

• 20%

[minor gust]

RIP EB

[shadow ibex]

1 cost a global 1 doesnt

[slow saddle]

And ms procs could prolong cs🤣

[latent moss]

just make slam reduce ms cd and give more power to slam in general

[slow saddle]

Its more blizzard allowed arms to be reset

[slow saddle]

Again no

When so u op // slam // ms makes a messy rotation

[shadow ibex]

gotta pick between MS resets and 1600% varation between MS casts

or no MS reset and hopefully it hits hard

[slow saddle]

Tbh rotation is very vey good atm

Its just we lack rage

And dmg

[naive minnow]

I think that my time listening here has come to this... yall just want a warrior overhaul

[slow saddle]

So feels crappy

[minor gust]

Sounds boring AF I like proc focused arms tbh

[slow saddle]

Y arms is playstyle wise good

[obsidian otter]

if we was S tier in our damage people would praise how it plays lol

[slow saddle]

But slayer arms is fun

Af

We just lack rage

And dmg

[minor gust]

Slayer arms is pretty good gameplay especially after the SD change

[slow saddle]

Y

Issue with gameplay is rage

[shadow ibex]

if our dmg was great it would feel like ass to still use cleave in ST and have it do like 60% of my dmg

[slow saddle]

Ofc

[minor gust]

Can arms still become way better yes. But in terms of the DF-TWW arms era gameplay midnight arms is pretty decent

[shadow ibex]

60% might be low ball tbh

[slow saddle]

But thats coz lizzars tooootally cooked our tuning

After our tuning was good

[shadow ibex]

even if i was topping meters thats still bad

[slow saddle]

Mid beta our tuning was great

Imho at least

[obsidian otter]

We litterly are a spender spec with no builders lol OP should give rage that alone would solve so much rage issues have it stay the same with resets on tac but let it give like 15-20 rage

[marsh estuary]

the one thing that truly hurts me is how little mortal strike hits for out of burst

[slow saddle]

Cant have both

[shadow ibex]

we dont have burst unless you count demolish

[minor gust]

Tuning is just low right now

MS hit a 20% nerf not long ago

[marsh estuary]

arms only has burst tf u mean

[slow saddle]

And nobody knows why

[slow saddle]

"Bust"

[shadow ibex]

its 1 of most consistent flat dmg profiles ever

[slow saddle]

Avatar 20% dmg !!!!

Not even execute atm does anything🤣🤣

[minor gust]

OMG how is arms supposed to do dmg without avatar bring it back blizzard!

[slow saddle]

Ikr

Also imagine no avatar

But

40% cs with resets

[fossil thistle]

So

[slow saddle]

100% embrace reset spex

[fossil thistle]

Reshii Wraps > 237 cloak

[minor gust]

We got tuned like this because of forum andys complaining about removing avatar

[fossil thistle]

~0.2%

[shadow ibex]

they will nerf cloak

[slow saddle]

Ofc

[shadow ibex]

or disable or smth

[slow saddle]

Disable

100%

[obsidian otter]

it will get disabled for sure

[wide apex]

good thinking

[minor gust]

Just nerf nothing wrong with using it while leveling and early gearing

No need to disable

[obsidian otter]

i bet after tuesday its disabled

there gonna give launch 1 day with it

[fossil thistle]

It'll get disabled at 81 or 89

[minor gust]

Hmm do I finally log on and start leveling today xD

[slow saddle]

I mean tier is disabled at 81🤣

[fossil thistle]

🤷‍♂️

[minor gust]

I've still been playing tbc

[fossil thistle]

because 16% damage would make it irreplaceable until 90

[minor gust]

That's different and always gets disabled

[obsidian otter]

will be 100% easier to level with the wraps active vs not

[slow saddle]

So what?

[next vessel]

Do you have a specific st build for slayer? Or just the normally accepted one

Love this aoe slayer build, very fun

[minor gust]

True but it's leveling it's easy no matter what

[obsidian otter]

the two i showed you are ones i use aoe for dungeons/mythics and the other one i use delvs/world quest

[slow saddle]

I wanna hear from a dev

[minor gust]

BLord slayer seems unnecessary for low level dungeons/heroics

Just aoe it up and blast through

[obsidian otter]

Blord is just bad for slayer in dungeons

[slow saddle]

Why ee got 60% dreadnaught 20% ms 20% exe AND 33% dw nerf

[obsidian otter]

even with the proc your still not using it instantly with how MS doesnt do much damage without it being buffed

[minor gust]

Depends what you want to prio more ST or more AOE

For keys

[obsidian otter]

even siming the BL spec does 200 more damage then the other aoe slayer spec but does almost 10k less aoe

[minor gust]

Yes ik tuning is shit so lol but in a perfect world where were tuned right

[obsidian otter]

so your not trading that lol

[latent moss]

op should never be 2nd in prio as colossus

colo should be ms>slam>op

[slow saddle]

Fuck of

Like what are u talkin about

[latent moss]

exactly what i said

they tried to make it like that but realized its too much effort

and didnt bother

[minor gust]

I haven't done any Sims yet so I'll have to take your word. Was that with beta gear or you lol leveling and doing heroics

[latent moss]

and now u have 2 hero talents with the exact same gameplay

[shadow ibex]

idt its possible unless u remove rage

[latent moss]

and the only reason its not the same is cause colosuss cant press buttons

[slow saddle]

Slam is the definition of a filler

Also col plays battlelord

[naive minnow]

Slam is filler that costs too much xD

[latent moss]

u would fill with op when u cant slam

[obsidian otter]

im a min maxer player its just how i love to play i sim every gear drop etc I sim based off times to kill bosses vs time it takes on aoe pulls i like the feel of battle lord but when you realize how MS is working (right now ) its not worth using it. without pressing 3 gcds before it resets to buff it

[latent moss]

0 correlation

[slow saddle]

Playstyle change

[latent moss]

it plays battlelord cause they removed all slam interaction taletns and gave up

same way they gave up on trying to make slayer not play cleave in aoe

[slow saddle]

Keep in mind anythin affectin slam affects hs

[latent moss]

that also has no correlation

[obsidian otter]

colossus with how they build might stacks off MS battle lord makes sense for that alone not even damage wise

[shadow ibex]

are u munching op charges?

[slow saddle]

Which is fun, coz it worked pre tuning of dreadnaught and op

[shadow ibex]

cuz thats S1 df

give me test of might and yea sure

[latent moss]

u could make it play like op2 > ms > slam > op1

[shadow ibex]

im ok with a playstyle that is p much stay at 30 rage for MS only and everything else is slam until ms is avalaible

[latent moss]

if u want to make op charges matter

[shadow ibex]

u want pre-DF arms p much

[latent moss]

yes and they gave up

[shadow ibex]

OP didnt even have x2 charges in SL and stuff

[latent moss]

cause it was too much work

it did

dreadnaught

u always played it

[shadow ibex]

yea well

in SL DN was a bad capstone at least in s1 and 2

i didnt play after

[latent moss]

it was bad with venthyr

it was bis for all other

it was bad cause u played ravager for the rage

but that build didnt live long iirc

enduring blow played dn

[minor gust]

Well see later on in keys, but right now if your looking at a 200 gain for 10k loss then yeah you would never make that trade. BL slayer was performing well on beta. Just not translating in these short scenarios.

[shadow ibex]

it would be so flat tho

youd spend so much from AM

cs has to change

[obsidian otter]

it perfemed well before the OP changes for sure

[shadow ibex]

or tact has to, OP at 2 would be too common

[minor gust]

RIP was such a depressing change

[shadow ibex]

if ur doing OP2>MS>slam>OP1, how is tact cuz slam gonna be pushed back a lot

[obsidian otter]

they honestly just should of made dread proc only happen +2 targets and left it thats only reason why it was so high in single target

[minor gust]

Nahhhhh we don't need another pure aoe talent

We already have so fucking many

[shadow ibex]

why not 10

[obsidian otter]

OP isnt aoe or single its just the button that should have rage gain that doesnt and the one we use in both aoe and single target lol

[torn rivet]

lads how is arms doing

[obsidian otter]

its a button that we always press no matter what

[shadow ibex]

im still surprised they kept auto attacks as our rage source after pruning and such

[minor gust]

Yes and if u want DN to only work in AOE then you are now sacrificing a talent point for only AOE gain

[shadow ibex]

i woulda put money on that during the whole "rework" but wasnt really

[minor gust]

This is a problem in keys

Op should gain rage tho idk why it still doesnt

[obsidian otter]

if OP gets rage gained to it that helps rage in aoe and sinlge target its the button we always press.. it just makes sense to add rage to it. every other button we press cost rage other then CS the 15 rage they put on CS talent they should just add it to OP baseline

[minor gust]

Shoulda made that change while we have been complaining during beta

[shadow ibex]

they want you to just crit more

[minor gust]

Yeah got no problem with rage op was talking about the dumb DN comment to make it 2 target+ only

Wanna fuck over arms in raid even more aye

[latent moss]

arms having am is so fucking evil

[naive minnow]

Am?

[latent moss]

the reason arms sped up is cause of fury players

complaining all of sl

about how arms is "slow" and "boring"

[torn rivet]

it is slow tho. Not boring, but slow

[cyan oriole]

quick question. does fevor of battle consume heroic strike procs

[latent moss]

it wasnt slow

haste was a good stat

it was ur best stat in s3

it just wasnt fury

with 90% haste

perma

[torn rivet]

I mean ye, tru

[obsidian otter]

single target OP does 12k plus 1.2k from Dreadnaught per hit. They could easily add that 1.2k to OP and not nerfed the 60% to Dreadnaught in aoe.. we wouldnt have any aoe issue at all currently with them buffing cleave and OP both being high as they should be

[minor gust]

Only way we prob get that feeling back is moving away from haste and reworking the spec to still function without empty gcds, and add more channels or evoker style mechanics

[torn rivet]

But fast and slow is also subjective

[maiden root]

Im addicted to playing arms now

on pre release

plays amazing

[torn rivet]

pog

Im hopping in just now

Got baited by mage, got bored real fast of it

[maiden root]

100%

now with arms when u see that heroic proc you feel wow i a new button

then when u cleave it uses it

so ur like okay i can hold to spend or use on single or with sweeping

so that choice is sex

[obsidian otter]

arms is fun to play if you like arms. leveling fury slayer and arms slayer both to 90 both starting at same ilv they clear pretty same speed. Arms sometimes deletes stuff on procs vs fury having to multi hit it more in short amount of time but as it should be.

survival can still pull whole areas on both specs with CDs and clear them and live

[maiden root]

im playing slayer arms and feels like the spec is very alive and really fun and smooth

no rage issue

yet

like never felt i ran out of rage

infact i was even spamming slam just to spend rage because i was over capping

[minor gust]

DN raid is not for the ST dmg its for the free cleave on add spawns without having to sacrifice a talent point. DN didn't even need the 60% nerf to begin with they went fucking overkill on it. Shoulda just been a 20%. No matter what you say DN on 2+ only is dumb AF and bad for the spec as a whole

[maiden root]

we do need a lot of buffs!

but right now i lvled a ret got so bored

[torn rivet]

i feel ya

[maiden root]

90 and 214 ilvl

now on arms im 4 lvls in and can[t stop playing

the sound of the ability! Cheifs kiss

the way it makes cleave hit like a truck and it only works if u hit 3 or more targets makes u want to position like its alive boys

[latent moss]

moving away from haste is the hard part

[maiden root]

just numbers

we need good tuning then boom we eating good

[latent moss]

killing am would be a good first step tho

but am is in the class tree so its enver going

[maiden root]

whats am?

[latent moss]

anger management

[maiden root]

why?

[torn rivet]

anger management is for soys

[maiden root]

whats soys?

[torn rivet]

like.. soy..boys

I guess

[maiden root]

are u on drugs?

[latent moss]

am = more cd uptime = less damage outside

less damage in general

[minor gust]

Yeah I'm fine with the current pace of arms, but I understand the people who want slow chunky arms back. The further retail wow goes a long tho idk how they really get that feeling back because empty gcds is off the table

[latent moss]

its just nor what arms should have

[maiden root]

i disagree

am fits arms like a glove

class fantasy and game play

[limber apex]

Arms should be slow and methodical if fury is meant to be the way it is. Fury is spammy now. Arms is same-ish now.

[maiden root]

u havent play new arms

[minor gust]

I am an AM enjoyer too CDR gameplay is good. CS just needs a strong supporting cooldown like avatar but obviously something way better because avatar sucks ass

[maiden root]

i just explained how Heroic struck does that

[obsidian otter]

Crit/haste is still what we run as arms we not moving away from it

[maiden root]

anyway logging on ceebs typing xD

[latent moss]

im not talking about current arms

[obsidian otter]

Oh

[limber apex]

I'm playing arms right now. It's similar apm to fury but more punishing if you press wrong button.

And less dps xd

[minor gust]

Less DPS is just tuning

Which is random every patch

[torn rivet]

tuning that Arms hasn't had ever since ..god knows

[limber apex]

Yes I don't care about dps much

[minor gust]

But yeah arms apm has been similar to fury since DF

[limber apex]

But it just feels very similar to fury in terms of clicking

Very very similar

[minor gust]

Idk how you solve that without a complete overhaul to the spec

Which just won't happen cuz they hate us

[limber apex]

The spec needed pruning and revamp most of all

But yet we got little to no pruning, I can't imagine how arms pvp players feel with the bloat

[minor gust]

It got it's pruning in alpha and was quickly reverted because of forum andies who think arms needed avatar to do dmg

[hasty pumice]

any arms players?

no?

[torn rivet]

[latent moss]

that pissed me off so much

[limber apex]

Hey at least prot is beefy

[torn rivet]

dead on arrival spec

[latent moss]

and ravager

for whatever fucking reason

ravager aka mbg enabler

[limber apex]

Prot is the spec until arms revamp for me xd

I can play with low dps as arms, low tuning, but gimme some actual gameplay not bloat

Why does Slam still exist ??????

[maiden root]

LOL

i can't beleive what im reading

just play a different spec

since we throwing out all abilties

xD

[minor gust]

Yeah I mean I will admit I was one of the ravager ppl asking for it back... But in my defense it was because MBG was locked behind only BS and it was dumb that Colo couldn't take it. Also lmao didn't know they would just add MBG and take away all the good shit from ravager and not make it passive like we all thought would happen since they did it for prot

[limber apex]

That's what I wrote above, prot is great, feels good

[maiden root]

like really no avatar?

really?

realllyyyy???

[torn rivet]

i liked avatar :(

blizzard stole my testosterone button

[minor gust]

Avatar is a shit outdated CD

[torn rivet]

they can't keep getting away with this

[maiden root]

whoever says removing avatar was needed and arms didnn't need that

im sorry let me direct u to ret discord where u just use wings

and u can enjoy that

xD

[torn rivet]

^

spot on

[minor gust]

Avatar isn't a real button

[limber apex]

I wish fury didn't have blade storm , and blade storm was gigastrong

[torn rivet]

I mean, he's also right. Avatar was a shit outdated CD

[minor gust]

It does nothing for you especially without torments

[maiden root]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[torn rivet]

but the steroids on pressing avatar

lining shit up

mmmmmmmmmm

[minor gust]

Yeah you know what how about design a better CD then?

[maiden root]

No what should of made u angry was why did prot and fury get avatar

[torn rivet]

arms without avatar is like gambling without a lever man

it just dosen't work

[minor gust]

Ppl crying about avatar loss is why we're stuck with this shit cr

[maiden root]

thats what should make u get angry

avatar=arms only.

[minor gust]

Because it's required for thane

[maiden root]

no

[torn rivet]

requiredn't

[maiden root]

get that shit out of here

[toxic surge]

agreed, avatar is like a super boring cd especially without root breaker

[maiden root]

avatar=arms becasue methodical dps

[minor gust]

What about that is methodical

Fucking cluegi deluxe over here

[torn rivet]

just the "lining up avatar with colossus and ravager"

thats pretty much all the methodic stuff

[maiden root]

@minor gust do u even main arms?

like do u actually play the spec?

[minor gust]

My logs are public

[torn rivet]

based

[maiden root]

so u like to copy others

got u

[latent moss]

🪤

[maiden root]

all good makes sense now

[torn rivet]

well in all truth avatar IS a shit cd but I liked my on-prem roids

[toxic surge]

if you have such a 'methodical' dps cd the skill ceiling is lower and not very interesting

come on, be objective

let's have fun

[maiden root]

ANYWAY im going to enjoy arms im done with this convo

[toxic surge]

have fun cds

[maiden root]

BUFF ARMS

and lets move on

[minor gust]

It has its flavor with the torments but they brought it back without them

[sharp wyvern]

17th

[minor gust]

Cementing it as a shit cd

[torn rivet]

true

Lol

fair point

[toxic surge]

indeed

[minor gust]

There's no reason in this current form for avatar to exist for arms

Not a single reason

[torn rivet]

i agree

arms needs some...more special cooldown

[minor gust]

It contributes nothing to the spec sadly

[toxic surge]

but but... 5% AoE dmg reduction 🤣

whoever intern came with this flavour must be released immediately

[torn rivet]

still

did blizzard say Anything regarding arms?

like "yo we sorry, we lookin into it" or something?

[latent moss]

arms needs cs on tactician

but they refuse to do that

[obsidian otter]

They can make avatar do like shaman acendance have our skills change to something a Avatar that were suppose to turn into uses where we actually turn into a avatar and not just grow big and do 20% more damage

[latent moss]

so reckless abandon

[gaunt owl]

sounds like fun, blizzard hate fun

[naive crescent]

was very fun in legion

[sharp wyvern]

stop bringing legion arms back

[latent moss]

sounds like what arms should be

[sharp wyvern]

move on

[minor gust]

There's a lot they can do anything would work. Just something to spice it up and feel a part of the spec. That was the whole point of torments. Idk why they thought it should comeback without em

[torn rivet]

like, make tactician procs off the gcd and grant rage

man that would be f**king awesome

[minor gust]

Tying ava to am was dumb because it doesn't do anything but make you press it more

[toxic surge]

is there already a Discord rebel shutdown scheduled or arms plyers will be happy with the 5% aura buff on 17th

[minor gust]

No we aren't mentally disabled like rets

[torn rivet]

don't throw the ball that far

[sharp wyvern]

amrs is gonna get memed on so hard that blizz is gonna panik buff it during hc week if they dont do more

[minor gust]

Fury players might tho if they were in our spot!

[gaunt owl]

Archi is keeping the shutdown for April's fools joke

[minor gust]

[sharp wyvern]

they didnt in S1 TWW

[minor gust]

?

Fury was insane s1 they just got nerfs

[gaunt owl]

Fury had for the longest time shit tier ST

[minor gust]

Raid wise

[gaunt owl]

they just had the best CD timer for a single tier

[sharp wyvern]

i think its just tradition at this point that warrior specs keep getting nerfed

[minor gust]

It's tradition arms gets nerfed because of the other specs

[gaunt owl]

its just too funny seeing the multiple nerf during beta

[sharp wyvern]

there is a chance arms gets nerfed again on the 17th and im so exited for it

[gaunt owl]

and just left in the dust going live

[toxic surge]

we don't have the cards guys

[torn rivet]

do u guys rly think blizz will fix?

i believe

[sharp wyvern]

the funniest part is they have to nerf tanks below the worst dps so all tanks will suffer aswell

[minor gust]

Serious answer is no because they don't do massive tuning numbers once the season starts. They only focus on keeping things in line with one another to not upset the balance. We will get buffs maybe multiple throughout the first month of launch. But it will never be big enough to make us good. Best case scenario we end up being slightly below average instead of the actual worst due to us getting buffs and other bad specs being ignored or getting less buffs

[slow saddle]

Dreadnaught is a thing we want strong as arms

[slow saddle]

Ye any hope of being good is dead until season 2

Like as said 80% behind uhdk

30% behind fury

[latent moss]

our 2t is lower than demo lock st

axaxaaxax

👍

[torn rivet]

?????????

wtff

yea blizzard is legit antiwarrior

and I think I know why too

[slow saddle]

I mean anti arms

[torn rivet]

yeah, i suppose that fts too

[slow saddle]

Furys quite ok

[sharp wyvern]

fury is more popular so it has to be better

[torn rivet]

fury is quite ok because as a spec it's better fleshed out

more fluent, more dumbass friendly too

[latent moss]

i will never forgive them

for destroying s1 tww

[sharp wyvern]

fleshed out as in never changes

[latent moss]

fury

[torn rivet]

arms, in all honesty, is choppy as hell

[slow saddle]

But arms was good mid beta!!!!

[torn rivet]

Lul

[slow saddle]

Mid beta it was.not

[latent moss]

has been like that forever

[slow saddle]

Fr they cooked us into the grave

[latent moss]

slayer arms atm is the best arms for me since sl

[torn rivet]

yea but its bcuz of crap design

[slow saddle]

Again no

Design now for slayer is good

Proc based fluent

If

Rage was proper

Execute rage cost reduced // we get old tactician

Hs should.be free

Its hopeless it costs rage

Its free in aoe, and we have more rage in aoe

But in st💔

[torn rivet]

bruh

[grizzled falcon]

Colossus is grim.

[slow saddle]

Yes

Col is basicly forgotten and truly needs a rework

How demolish works

[minor gust]

Archi gave plenty of good ideas how to change Colo to feel and work so much better since TWW all ignored sadly

[slow saddle]

Yup

Tbh demo could just replace cs

Mby easier that way

[minor gust]

Eh I'm not a fan of that one but removing CM and just having demo apply CS for a few seconds is better imo

[slow saddle]

Ofc

[minor gust]

For CD pruning I rather have ravager ava gone than CS demo merged

[slow saddle]

I agree

Yes

[slow saddle]

I agree

[fossil thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/orc-sadorc-zuug-gif-18395942

[latent moss]

i will never understand

why demo applies its own debuff

when both prot and arms

have a debuff in their kit

cs / demo shout

just make demo apply it

demo having its own cdr is also so stupid

[slow saddle]

Cdr is a problem for arms

Just remove

[latent moss]

just put everything on am

[minor gust]

Because Blizz puts in minimal effort for this spec and will only occasionally throw a bone like HS and SD reap change

[latent moss]

sd change prob a stray from fury

[gaunt owl]

unintended buff

more nerf inc

-13%aura

[minor gust]

Wouldn't fucking surprise me

If SD was because of fury and arms was an after thought

[latent moss]

that change got me so hyped up

[obsidian otter]

SD no longer free now cost rage for arms lol

[latent moss]

cause that was like the main thing missing for cleaveless slayer

[wary steppe]

do they actually filter and see our feedback or does it go unnoticed?

[minor gust]

50/50

Sometimes they do sometimes they don't

But in terms of feedback from this discord no nothing from here forums only

[spiral coral]

https://tenor.com/view/man-yall-need-some-help-yall-need-some-assistance-yall-need-therapy-need-someone-to-help-you-you-need-help-gif-15262451

[minor gust]

We spend time talking in a class discord for a video game we all need help

[slow saddle]

20 years man

We care to much

[tawdry quail]

What’s is SD?

[last saddle]

Blizz buffed us by breaking details now no one can see we’re at the bottom 🤘

[wary steppe]

i think we got shadowbuffed i actually top dmg in heroics?

[worn knoll]

cant wait for prog night bois, im hyped

[proper moth]

Prune everything from arms other than charge execute MS CS BS slam and cleave. Increase our dam by like 100% boom problem solved we’re back bois

[misty sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-sponge-bob-flabby-gif-12430452

[wary steppe]

guys i trigger reap the storm with execute is that normal?

[raw zenith]

wait that Heroic Strike macro is OP, no? or are there cases where you would not want to press it before Mortal Strike?

i don't know the prio

[obsidian otter]

if your running EP then yeah you dont wanna HS over MS at 3 stacks

honestly better to not use it if your running EP MS will hit harder unless your playing colossus and running battle lord then Dont play EP

[obsidian otter]

#arms message As I said earlier MS should always be buffed naturally like this 5s CD you easily fit 3 GCDs in between MS strikes to buff it and make it actually do damage. If your running EP talent

[gentle gyro]

Yes

[latent pecan]

quick question: how much skill expression is there while playing arms from 1 (tryhard or not - the result is the same) to 10 (better get out that calculator)? after blizzard dumped down most of the specs i am looking for something with a reasonable amount.

[halcyon valve]

dude im so ready for midnight, arms is so strong, can easily solo mythic dragonflight dungeons, almost without dying

[gentle gyro]

I don't think there is a single spec at 8 or higher anymore

[white stratus]

Warrior needs to be reworked, period.

[latent pecan]

thank god i am not looking for one over 8 xD. But where does arms rate? Looking for a nice 5-6 where you can see the difference between good and bad players without it beeing a pain in the arse to play

[cobalt lodge]

well arms itself is -10 atm so wouldnt touch it imo

[frank sequoia]

macro

[latent pecan]

thats sad. had some hopes for arms with it beeing one melee with at least a halfway fleshed out rotation after they pruned sub rogue to a 2 button spamfest. Well thank you for your input

[obsidian otter]

yeah they should of replaced rupture with a new sub "fantasy like skill" instead just getting rid of it

[cobalt lodge]

arms was 100% going to be my main in midnight until i saw tuning numbers. currently on pure st, arms gets outdpsed by all tanks and a healer spec

like wtf

[latent pecan]

what they did to that spec is a crime. But well this is not the right place to discuss this xD

[cobalt lodge]

they did a decent job with some prunes like on the shamans, and then completely went overboard on rogues for example. and tuning wise its also just funny to see demo lock sim 150k+ and arms sim like 60-70k

[obsidian otter]

no one played sub though even when you look at played at max level it was like under .5% of the population and when you read the complains about it was to hard no one wanted to maintain rupture it was a pvp ability blah blah people complain and then something is changed and they still complain lol

[cobalt lodge]

yeah i mean at least sub is playable now, very easy to get into and do good dam. has however 0 flavour or skill

[obsidian otter]

still will be gap from good to bad even with how easy it is to play. You will have players who use shadow technique outside of shadow dance. Positining etc its good for new players for sure to get into it and its performing really well damage tuning.

[cobalt lodge]

for sure. the outlaw mini rework is also nice

[obsidian otter]

i like the roll the bones change for sure

getting a jackpot feels good and able to extend it with talent skill is nice

[latent pecan]

if you enjoy pressing only 2 buttons + 1 cd for a 6 min single target fight then yes its playable. But well arms is playable as well but if you ask some players here they would swear its not. I mean number wise i dont think its something to worry about. They cant keep this clusterfuck of a balance. you would see the kind of class stacking that has not been seen since bfa and blizzard hated that xD. I am sure they will balance this. What i am not sure is why they insist on waiting until week 3 for this

[cobalt lodge]

arms is not playable on pure st tbh

like i said, its below all tanks and a healer on sims

that is dreadful

i suspect theyll just be declined from every key more or less

[latent pecan]

yes but that is just numbers. Is the playstyle ok? yes? then you got nothing to worry about. i would bet alot that they will not keep this balance with some classes dealing double the single target of others. But a lot of classes have pretty brutal flaws in their playstyle and i dont think they are gonna fix that as fast xD

[wary steppe]

i also feel the playstyle and theme they try to make is a mess resulting to them balancing the numbers badly. they want to have it as a 2-target cleave themed but find it hard to balance ST without breaking 2 targets. they want to add bleeds in they either make them too big in the dmg profile or too weak. they add a bajilion different modifiers to abilites making their basic use feel noodle but if they overbuff basic its too strong

as i tried to play these days with arms a lot i see design flaws that might lead to balance flaws also. overall the spec is a mess

[cobalt lodge]

the playstyle is awful, arms probably has the most or close to the most buttons now

[minor gust]

Arms got pruned and then unpruned for no reason when there was many other specs that probably should have gotten unpruned which is funny

[shadow ibex]

passive ravager would go hard

or just bake mbg into cs or smth

[teal fossil]

why MBG isnt within CS

is beyond me

i guess the main complaint would be that itll be weird to understand when to prio mbg vs something like bladestorm

[obsidian otter]

hit 90 on alt arms and 212 🙁 so close to queing for heroics from world quests 🙁

[shadow ibex]

put it in colossus tree

the mbg buff already exclusive to it

since slayer cant run ravager

a million things coulda done besides have a 90 sec cd with 0 cdr

[proper moth]

Delete all arms abilities other than execute and take away the 20% requirement ggez

[boreal remnant]

@smoky kayak not that it's relevant at all (and this would be an amazing practical joke) but arms has no raid talent setup in the overview page

[tight wing]

LOL

[boreal remnant]

arms so bad it doesn't even get the dignity of a raid talent build

[smoky kayak]

Yeah it's a bug on the site side

[tight wing]

Funny though xD

[boreal remnant]

Ah I see

[smoky kayak]

but also... yeah

[fresh spire]

the bug is that arms should use 2 weapons instead

[minor gust]

Don't need a raid talent build if there's no raid out!

[smoky kayak]

na the cheat sheet just refuses to load any build which has Fatality, for some reason

[smoky kayak]

who needs hero world tier, just level as arms

[boreal remnant]

still sad arms is so undertuned, in terms of gameplay I much prefer it to fury

[smoky kayak]

tbf it plays completely fine in leveling

[boreal remnant]

is stance mastery or battlefield commander just not worth taking?

oh right, the wowhead build is for level 90

that'd explain it

ignore me

[smoky kayak]

BCmdr is taken by L90, you just can't afford it before then

[boreal remnant]

ye I'm just dumb

[smoky kayak]

Stance Mastery is strong defensively but not quite as strong as Barbaric/Crushing

[fresh spire]

Arms feels OK in heroics but I'm defo losing

[umbral badger]

Sounds like a fatal bug

[hushed pine]

Try the slayer aoe build

Feels more consistent than Colo atm

[obsidian otter]

I just went against two new DH spec in windspire my arms not as geared as my fury as I hit hit 90 like hour ago but man was shocked I hit like 2-3 pulls at 100k + already

[tight wing]

doing Fine here

[obsidian otter]

What’s overall look like

[tight wing]

not bad, I think

[boreal remnant]

man

that bear sucks

[hushed pine]

Demo warlock under bear

Lol

Lmao even

[minor gust]

never played demo lock but I can very much assume they require things to live

which wont happen in a heroic

[boreal remnant]

lock is one of the tankiest classes in the game

[minor gust]

talking about the mobs not the lock my friend

[proper moth]

No shade but those dude suck
Solid on your part tho

[hushed pine]

It's just been 3 days

Still

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[shadow ibex]

Whole population isnt even playing

[tight wing]

ngl, I'm just glad I'm holding my own LOL

[nova marsh]

I have been

attempting to enjoy UDK

[bleak arrow]

show boss damage

[tight wing]

Different dungeon, but still a 1 target boss

overall for that one

[bleak arrow]

nerf arms being above tank

[quiet bramble]

Slarms or Colosussy?

[tight wing]

Slayer bc screw colossus

[quiet bramble]

Zamn

[tight wing]

Here's my build, incase anyone wants to mess with it

CcEAjLzRlq54bI5v+r8Sr9Xw4jZmZmlZGzMzAAAAMMNMDGLLzMzMDzYmBAAAAwYxMwWGjltBWADYGmQmBbgZGMbDmtZ2GgZGAmxwA

[nova marsh]

Taking full apex?

[tight wing]

yeah

[mystic python]

Legitimatley don't know why Apex isn't just a separate part of the tree you can't opt out of

Anyone not 4/4ing an apex means the apex is shit, buff the apex

[tight wing]

gonna Desync anyways, so may as well get more uptime on the 30% Damage bonus

[nova marsh]

na

arms apex 4 dosen't need a buff

it needs a god damn rework

[tight wing]

idk I like it

[mystic python]

Arms in general needs a fucking rework

Get rid of slam and put heroic strike on overpower

[nova marsh]

I mean yes but little things

Yall

Will seriously do anything to hate on slam

[mystic python]

Because slam is shit

Slam has been shit for a decade

[nova marsh]

It's fine dude

[mystic python]

I have been asking for slam to be removed since fucking legion

At least Legion had the decensy to give us fervor of battle

[nova marsh]

It dosen't need to be a button that does 2 morbillion damage

[mystic python]

It's not about it not doing two morbillion damage

it's about it doing fuck all and looking like shit

[nova marsh]

....

🤔

[shell arch]

slam and overpower should be turned into a single button, like tactician turns slam int overpower

and slam should cost no rage

[nova marsh]

Wouldn't it doing 2 morbillion damage make it do something?

[mystic python]

Yes but we don't need another button that does two morbillion damage

we just need one less button that does fuck all

[nova marsh]

ahem

Points at avatar and ravager

[tender quiver]

slam and heroic strike just don't feel good to use. i think it's an animation thing

[shell arch]

heroic strike should be a "buff" to mortal strike, not slam

[nova marsh]

I genuinely find those two far more offensive then slam has ever been

[mystic python]

Heroic strike would feel great being back off the GCD

Arms should have access to passive ravager

But avatar feeling bad?

Are you high?

You get big, you hit harder

It feels good on warrior period

[shell arch]

bladestorm feels super weak

[nova marsh]

No not to me

[mystic python]

I was livid when the initial midnight builds had arms with no access to it

[nova marsh]

Avatar has zero interaction with avatar

[tight wing]

I kinda agree actually, It feels a bit awkward to press

[nova marsh]

It is bloat on arms

[mystic python]

It's not bloat

[tight wing]

(avatar)

[nova marsh]

And I will stand by this till I die

How is it not?

[mystic python]

it's literally an ogcd button that lets you fucking get big and deal damage

bind it to fucking cmsash you baby

[nova marsh]

...Okay

Fine, I guess since it's "iconic" it can't be bloat

So rend isn't either!

[mystic python]

Rend and Thunderclap should be a single button

not two

One talent

choice node

[nova marsh]

Chief

[shell arch]

REND, please delete rend and slam

[nova marsh]

we don't even use Tclap, that disscusion is for fury lol

fury shouldn't even have rend, but that's a different disscussion

[mystic python]

Fury can have rend

Blood and THunder is good

[quiet bramble]

Shit i forgot that slam still exists

[mystic python]

Thunderclap looks better than the awful new rend animation anyways

[shell arch]

do you think it's viable to play arms without rend?

[mystic python]

Why the fuck is rend a whirlwind with no particle effects?

[nova marsh]

I genuinely think you people care far too much about animations

[mystic python]

Gamefeel is important

who knew

[shell arch]

should at least have a red effect

[fading isle]

It does have a red slash or something

[nova marsh]

Yes but the level of nitpick gets insane here

I agree on something like HS

[mystic python]

It should be the condemn effect but with whirlwind animation

[quiet bramble]

Waiting for blizz to rework this damn skill animation and sfx

Pressing rend feels so aaaah on Slury

[nova marsh]

Espically because it's really easy to just not see 90% of warriors animations in the middle of a mass M+ pull

[tight wing]

I use rend for rage gen, so it's weird but not horrible

[mystic python]

Anywyas, thunderclap/rend choice node. You get the rend debuff regardless. Tclap slows, rend does more initial application damage. Fury and Prot will take tclap for mountain thane, slayer fury wil ltake rend, and colossus prot will take tclap because prot needs tclap

[quiet bramble]

Wait no BS?

[mystic python]

Or just delete rend, and make blood and thudner part of thunderclap by default.

[nova marsh]

?

It's right there thou

[quiet bramble]

Mb im used to fury tree

[mystic python]

Bladestorm/Avatar being a choice node in fury feels so bad

[nova marsh]

Leeme ask you a question

[mystic python]

glad that isn't the case for arms

[nova marsh]

Why does slayer need avatar

[mystic python]

Because damage steroid

[nova marsh]

Okay but I say again

[mystic python]

damage steroid feel good

Get big

roar

smash

WARRIOR SMASH

[nova marsh]

...

CS?

[quiet bramble]

That’s mountain king asthetic

[mystic python]

it's literally been part of arms since wrath my man

[nova marsh]

...avatar? Uhhhh

No?

[mystic python]

Yes? I used to use it to duel frost mages all the time in front of org.

it was the only way to deal with root #3 after bladestorm was down

[nova marsh]

Wowhead kinda disagrees chief

...wait

Hold on

[tight wing]

I thought it was a MoP thing

[delicate girder]

avatar or bladestorm

avatar is mop

bladestorm is wrath

[tight wing]

Avatar yeah, I knew BS was WotLK

[nova marsh]

Yeah I think we've all just confused ourselves

And yes Ava was mop

The version I found on wowhead is wrong thou...cuz

[tight wing]

Avatar was 5.0.4 no?

[nova marsh]

Yes

[tight wing]

the timing on that lol

[nova marsh]

....Idk what version wowhead has

I was already looking for the wiki version

cuz the wowhead one looked wrong

[tender quiver]

when is the arms buff

[mystic python]

.1

to be followed by the nerf a week later

[quiet bramble]

blizz is gonna nerf warrior whenever a mage died to it

[tardy crag]

hello

I will die so u suffer more

[summer quartz]

like blizz needs a "reason" to nerf warriors.

[tardy crag]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shield-bashing-warrior-banging-gif-4338452386513641626

[fossil thistle]

No buff we're fine

(221 dk vs 288 bis arms?)

[gentle gyro]

They exist

Is that enough?

[vast helm]

whats new for us

[tender quiver]

...the math ain't mathin

[obsidian otter]

ready for MOs tomorrow

[obsidian otter]

Thats difference ran both dungeons on both. Overall fury beat arms single target fury slayer did 10k more than arms if you want a comparison of two equally geared same skill warrior

167k was highest aoe peak i hit that run but multiple 100k + pulls

[minor gust]

Are m0s even available tomorrow? usually weekly reset stuff isnt available till first reset for obvious reasons

[obsidian otter]

yeah Os are avalible just not the seasonal mythic Os

[dim basalt]

Supposedly yes

[minor gust]

yeah ik thats what im talking about

interesting tho

[dim basalt]

But I still have a hard time believing that we actually get a reset

[obsidian otter]

this what we get mythic 0s if they give it to us

[minor gust]

yes just like tww you get all the expansion dungs for M0 but should still be locked out till tuesday as far as I know

but if you guys say its gonna be available tomorrow ill just believe it

guess ill start leveling then xD if Im fast I should still be able to do all my m0s tomorrow

[obsidian otter]

wowhead even says non seasonal zeros

but could be wrong

pretty sure there was a blue post on it

says march third on reset

[rose ibex]

hey folks. I hear arms has bad numbers but is pretty fun this season. How y'all feeling about it?

[minor gust]

bruh so I was right march 3rd thats tuesday

aka reset

[obsidian otter]

#arms message I leveled both to 90 fury slayer and arms slayer there is side by side comparison

[obsidian otter]

yeah tomorrow

[rose ibex]

yeah but numbers will change

[minor gust]

my brain fried from stealth farming mana tombs for gold its technically monday rn

[rose ibex]

i'm more just asking if the rotation is fun and how the updates feel and whatnot

[obsidian otter]

i mean its 2 am for me lol and was 130 am when i posted that 🙁

[minor gust]

everyone knows its not the next day till you goto sleep

yeah you good im the fried one

[rose ibex]

that is pretty interesting tho ngl

[obsidian otter]

I like rotation of both for slayer idk about colossus or thane. When i play thane my brain thinks i should be tanking lol

[rose ibex]

i love warrior but I never really enjoyed fury

[obsidian otter]

currently slayer fury does less aoe than slayer arms but slayer fury does more single target then arms slayer

thats only reason they are still semi close

pulls were also not the same as two different random pugs Arms easily still could of hit 60k overall instead of 58k overall

also in fury group i had destro lock which isnt as strong as demo lock that I had in arms group

so he was eating more damage that last 35% that I could have gotten more dps in as arms

M0s ill get better comparison enemies dont die as fast

with current tuning id prolly still go fury slayer unless arms gets the tuning to boost it

[rose ibex]

what are the big things that changed for the spec in the expansion?

i assume arms will. Everyone is dogging on it

[obsidian otter]

crushing combo with cleave is new

everything else is pretty much same as arms

[rose ibex]

i saw warbringer and collossus smash are just baked in together which is really nice :)

[obsidian otter]

and slam turns to heroic strike

[rose ibex]

it would be nice to have a reason to enjoy pressing that button XD

[obsidian otter]

CS does less damage then Warbringer but yeah its pretty much just a weaker version of warbreaker

[thick hamlet]

i don't think m0 opens till the season, or am i wrong?

[rose ibex]

either way, the collossal smash + bladestorm combo makes the monkey in my brain clap

[nova marsh]

Tbc?

[minor gust]

nah they open on reset

[minor gust]

yee

[nova marsh]

Have fun

Leveling my outlaw now

[minor gust]

thankfully I have tbc popping off during the 2 week of nothing on retail

so I can just level do my m0 weekly and log off

[thick hamlet]

are m0 on daily or weekly reset in midnight then? because if it's daily that's a bit of a problem

[nova marsh]

Cuz i have nothing else to do

[minor gust]

weekly

[thick hamlet]

good, thanks

[nova marsh]

Why a problem, its vet gear

[obsidian otter]

it buffs your MS by 5% per stack if your playing EP every time you press MS you should have 3 stacks of something either that be 15% from EP and MP your Mortal strike should always have anywhere from 20%-100% buff MS hit

[obsidian otter]

#arms message here was my heroic run comparison it was almost 59k overall arms

[thick hamlet]

mostly because i wouldn't want to miss m0 resets because i'm still leveling

[limber light]

doesn't look that bad, playing slayer ?

[obsidian otter]

yeah i only play slayer on both fury and arms

[minor gust]

you gotta remember its heroic dungeons not endgame keys ontop of player skill in your heroic dungeon finder is gonna vary massively

things wont live long enough for a lot of specs to be able to even play the game

[obsidian otter]

Even in beta i made a character to just pug to 3k to see if it was even possible and posted the keys on channel where arms was top dps on fast clears. This was pre OP nerf. I stopped playing beta after they nerfed it lol

this when we was B tier i think if we dont get a buff its gonna be alot harder on arms to push

[minor gust]

pug pushing yeah its gonna be difficult even if we get multiple good buffs. Community sentiment is what drives pug invites and right now the community is pretty well aware of arms being massively shit

[rose ibex]

i noticed the wowhead build uses the rank 4 point on avatar instead

[obsidian otter]

I use 3 points 4th one isnt worth it

[nova marsh]

Rank 4 sims poorly

[rose ibex]

sounds good

[obsidian otter]

and you can either use that point for more rage from bloodsurge

which we need all the rage we can get currently

[rose ibex]

does the apex talent feel valuable?

[minor gust]

4th point doesnt and never will rest is good

[obsidian otter]

it use to when it was 5s per HS when it turned to 2s i stopped using it even in beta

[minor gust]

arms has a solid apex talent excluding the final point

[rose ibex]

i'm having so much trouble deciding what to level next

[obsidian otter]

when it was 5s Per HS you had about a 20-25s CS which let you do crushing combos more.

you could get off like two CS/CC per pack pull vs only one

[nova marsh]

Im going outlaw

[obsidian otter]

outlaw is good right now for sure fun!

[nova marsh]

Because dk will drive me up the wall with doing zero damage outside of cds

[obsidian otter]

and good damage

[nova marsh]

Holy fuck udk is awful

Press army afk for a minute after FK is done

[minor gust]

welcome to a burst spec just how it goes

[obsidian otter]

yeah thats why i never got into it.

[minor gust]

you are either only dmg inside cds or dmg all the time with no burst

retail wow baby

[obsidian otter]

enhance shammy is kinda like that with accendance but they still have decent sustained outside of it as well with procs

I honestly was gonna go enhance lol

[nova marsh]

Frost at least has resource management outside of pillar and deals almost acceptable damage

[minor gust]

ive heard nothing but good things for enhance and survival

both seem like fun melee specs to play

[nova marsh]

Ehhh after playing enhance ill skip this season

[obsidian otter]

survial was fun if you like throwing bombs and shooting shot guns lol

not much melee your doing

[nova marsh]

I don't like strombringer being rng (i say as I roll outlaw, roll stage one three times in a row and want to throw myself at a wall)

[minor gust]

true but the game considers you a melee spec so thats all that matters

[nova marsh]

Also im trying to branch out to at least 2 specs per character for more variety

[rose ibex]

i despise ascendence but it's so powerful.... i always play totemic to avoid using ascendence haha

i'm torn between levelling shammy or warrior next.... hard to choose...

[nova marsh]

I like the ranged aspect as a cd to let you move very freely

It was dope in tww

[minor gust]

Just prio what you find more fun, hard choice but thats all that matters. Tuning is an up and down force you cant control

[nova marsh]

I dislike casters too so idk if id play elemental (also from what I remeber thats another all damage in your burst spec with zero st. Might be different in midnight(

[rose ibex]

if they had a glyph that just put an effect on you instead of turning you into those ugly forms I wouldn't mind

[rose ibex]

i just hate looking at ascendence

[obsidian otter]

MS outside of using MP/EP talents is a joke with them you can hit for 90-110k currently in our gear.

[rose ibex]

it kills the spec for me. My tauren gets smaller :P

[obsidian otter]

they have to many modifiers for it where unhenged feels weak because of it

[rose ibex]

yeah I always do. Things will always change, it just needs to be fun :)

[nova marsh]

Honestly im kinda okay playing specs with no burst

[minor gust]

good now my totally unbiased opinion will be pick warrior

shamans are lame af

[nova marsh]

Tf u mean shamans are lame

[rose ibex]

both arms and enh are punchy and the buttons feel good to press. Arms is definitely more chill, but enh has a lot of great utility and i really like wack a mole specs

[nova marsh]

My amdrassil tier!

[rose ibex]

shamans still not getting their 2h back is the biggest tragedy in WoW history

[minor gust]

even if retail shamans dont have totems they will forever be lame to me!

[obsidian otter]

I like how they can put earth shield on their self and the tank or healer

[nova marsh]

WHAT IS TOTEMIC

[minor gust]

if that requires you moving a totem around then yeah def lame!

[rose ibex]

yeah it's great. Enh got one of the better prunings of the classes and still feels like how they used to but a bit more streamlined

unlike feral which feels completely different to how they used to play