arms

[slow saddle]

Arms taking strays coz fury is stronger

[rare kite]

Reap nerf is prob coming

[thick kelp]

if anything Prot will catch a stray

they will end up nerfing thane one way or another

[rare kite]

Idk they already did tho

[thorn stream]

to keep the spec in place which already is inferior ?

[rare kite]

No coz reap is overtuned. Just gotta hope they compensate

[thorn stream]

so more a redistribution

[rare kite]

[slow saddle]

tbf reduce reap a bit FUCKING GIVE bladestorm a HUGE DUNK buff

to make us better than we are now

happy me

[untold trench]

I like the vibe of what I spot right now

down! up! That is the way we like to truck!

[boreal remnant]

fury better

they replaced the sweeping strikes duration with a stack based system in prepatch

[quartz linden]

So, this isnt good? 30 sec cd did seem like a lot

[boreal remnant]

it's fine

you've got almost 100% uptime of sweeping now in aoe

since avatar also gives it with a talent

[dim basalt]

You probably mean CS, not avatar

[boreal remnant]

yeah mb

[slow saddle]

Fam broad strokes could just make sweep passive

Name even fits

[pearl jasper]

Is battlelord now part of the best ST build?

[slow saddle]

Now?

U mean in beta?

[jovial hare]

if you guys were so inclined
what would you drop to take spear in a m+ build

[pearl jasper]

oh the change was on beta? I thought it was live

ignore me

[slow saddle]

Y our rage issues are also in beta

😅

[fresh spire]

BL is for Colossus not for slayer

[hollow plover]

yo krisp, do you by chance know what the highest dps raid race will be?

the fishes said pandaren with food buff

that real?

[fresh spire]

Not sure, stats usually are kings early patch, last expansion mechagnome was the best, wouldn't be suprised if its the same as not much has changed

[hollow plover]

not the answer i was hoping for

it's very up in the air

[dim basalt]

VE gaming

[minor gust]

Race min maxing

[dire hinge]

but which race looks best

[untold trench]

Night Elf

Aight moving on to the next topic

[slow anchor]

Races are less than a percentage between top and bottom when simulated by a bot wearing BiS gear doing the rotation perfectly in whichever scenario you put it up in, ignoring downtime in fights due to being forced to move or whatever. You really shouldn't worry about the race you play as for your dps as it's completely negligible in a real scenario

[latent moss]

w

tp is so peak

[slow anchor]

The only thing you should worry about when choosing a race is this: Do you like how they look and if they fit the theme you're trying to portray, and will you be bothered clicking the extra button that race may or may not add to your rotation, like trolls Berserk ability

[latent moss]

i mean

you just macro it to avatar or w/e

[slow anchor]

Exactly

[jovial hare]

the only thing you should worry about is if your guildies are gonna roast you on the regular for playing the race and if it bothers you

[latent moss]

sure but if ure actually progging early everything helps

[slow anchor]

Note that this only applies to Gnomes, Mechagnomes, Earthen, and sometimes elves

[hollow plover]

lalalal copy paste race doesnt matter answer lalalalal

dude if it doesnt matter to you then it doesn't matter to you. Dont project onto others

[latent moss]

u will never see revvez on a suboptimal race

[slow anchor]

I'm not projecting. You will never play aswell as the bot does

That's just a fact

[dire hinge]

if my raid wipes because im not a diaper gnome, i can live with that

[hollow plover]

smh

[latent moss]

ye u can play better

[slow anchor]

So your dps will not matter based on your race

[latent moss]

i think dan is perma zandalari

not sure

[untold trench]

What makes more of a difference, racials or crit RNG?

[jovial hare]

how good ur mog looks

duh

[slow anchor]

This

[hollow plover]

Not a single person ever claimed to be playing as accurately as the sim so why even talk about that? Goalpost moving arguments don't really work

[hollow plover]

in s1 mechagnomes mattered more than crits

which is kinda wild if u ask me

[latent moss]

i mean both will crit and mecha just did more damage baseline

[jovial hare]

i'd rather break all of my teeth on solid ice than spend one second on mechagnome

[untold trench]

doubt that, but I will take your word for it, as I cba to check varriance

[hollow plover]

^this

[slow anchor]

[slow anchor]

I'm not moving the goalpost, I'm presenting an argument on why choice of race won't matter

[latent moss]

but it does?

not for most players

but it does for some

[hollow plover]

"you arent playing as good as the bot so xyz improvement doesn't matter" this can be applied to every single potential optimization

just dont

dont add your 2 cents

[slow anchor]

lmfao

[jovial hare]

i mean thats the entire impetus of the argument

[slow anchor]

Ok you're not worth arguing with

[jovial hare]

u just dont want to hear it

[untold trench]

Wouldnt anything litteraly do, if you use the "for some" argument? Micro lag happenstance, a bird chirping distracting you, how much waterr you had to drink...

[latent moss]

no cause the "some" are doing bosses pre nerfs where if ure doing 1% less dmg ure trolling

like people swapping to velf for raz cause u could tp the ring

[hollow plover]

Dawg i never tried to argue i asked a question and you added your argument that genuinely wasn't insightful, new or relevant to me by any means

[slow anchor]

The difference in dps because of race is so infitisimally small that it's not gonna be a scenario where it will be a deciding factor between a boss kill or wipe. a completed key or broken key

[slow anchor]

You asked a question, I answered

Then you argued

[hollow plover]

Your "answer" didn't answer the question

And just so you know

[latent moss]

🪤

[hollow plover]

the point of race optimizations isnt to cheat out boss kills

that only applies to top guilds, if even

[jovial hare]

im gonna go make food

[hollow plover]

The point of race optimizations is the same as gear optimizations

it's to get small edges

[slow anchor]

But that edge is actually tinier than your penis though ;D

Nah, that was out of line

[latent moss]

holy 🪤

[jovial hare]

big dawg that was entirely uncalled for

[slow anchor]

Sorry

[untold trench]

I wanted to support Leagal, but now I regret that I even did it so far

[hollow plover]

[latent moss]

didnt have baiting in here for a long time

[slow anchor]

Hahahaha

[minor gust]

Which race looks best in tmog

[dire hinge]

depends on whether or not you care about your shoes 😂

[slow anchor]

Hey, as a troll that hurts!

[slender sonnet]

fhuman tbh

man I love female humans model

female human model my goat

[minor gust]

Female nelf model peak supremacy

I would link the mog but on classic right now 😗

[inland tartan]

nice outfit

[warm fog]

Imagine not playing an orc warrior

[inland tartan]

the classic

[latent moss]

imagine playing orc warrior

[inland tartan]

not the classic

[latent moss]

just play maghar

[warm fog]

Female orc has the best human-ish promotions for mog

[inland tartan]

unfort orc warriors are the only races in the game that showcase the arms class fantasy..... all two of them.

[latent moss]

thats true

female orc is good

[inland tartan]

unless im forgetting someone but i had thought about it once as a not lore head and found that funny

[latent moss]

for some reason i assumed u said male orc

my bad for flaming female orcs

[minor gust]

orc warrior mog with full lvl 60 classic pvp set is bis

nothing else comes close to peak orc

[inland tartan]

female human model is good but it does have kinda lame melee animations. namely dual wielding.

[inland tartan]

lukewarm take but vanilla wow has the best art style for armors.

[minor gust]

tbc for me

pretty criminal the old school lvl 60 pvp hasnt gotten an hd remake

the plate set for horde and ally are still good

my pally rn xd

[inland tartan]

valid

[slender sonnet]

It's great animations for arms

[inland tartan]

yeah human female 2h is okay

their 1h animations work best for shields

[slender sonnet]

i really liked the surv hunter animations on female human too

my only female humans are arms warr, surv hunter and hpal

[inland tartan]

100%

[slender sonnet]

I wanna make my mage female human but I cba to pay for a race change

i'd play worgen but the animations are dogshit tbh

[inland tartan]

just play nelf. best race

[slender sonnet]

my warr was a nelf but i got fed up of the animations

I played nelf warr for like 3 seasons so just felt like a change

[inland tartan]

got tired of doing flips, eh

[nova marsh]

Nelf 2h animation is legitmently atricious

Literally any medium sized and above shoulder model with clip into your head

[dire hinge]

that's valid, i flipflop between Dark Iron and Human

[inland tartan]

i agree with this. i hate how all shoulderpads on nelf is just set to jumbo for whatever reason

[nova marsh]

Shoulders on nelf look dumb and then you play a 2h spec and make it look even dumber

[brisk cipher]

I like undead

[acoustic vigil]

Unpopular opinion, Zandalari trolls ^^

[dire hinge]

Ztrolls are great (minus boots, but whatreyagonna do)

[warm fog]

I’ve never like their run animation

But they look very good in transmog

[acoustic vigil]

I still enjoy my Drae male though, even more since Blibli decided to give us more "covered legs" options (also the sweet racial "saving myself or saving the healer if need arise")

[sand totem]

Hey so this is a pretty newb question. I'm not used to doing keys, but OP is doing significantly more damage than cleave in any key I do. Is this how it should be? I find it hard to believe dreadnaught is carrying that hard, and much easier for me to believe I'm fucking something up lmao

[livid cloak]

Are you hitting cleave on cd in aoe?

If you're not, then you're doing it wrong

And don't forget colossus smash gives you 3 straight cleaves with no cd

Dreadnaught is really good, but I think cleave should still do more

[livid cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/bros-bro-high-five-dillon-duke-gif-12955092

Draenei male enjoyers

[jovial hare]

fridge enjoyers

[sand totem]

I am indeed. Trying to sync Csmash and SS together to make the slam sweep. Then an OP for collateral damage increase cleave damage. But OP still pulled ahead of cleave by about 5-10% of my overall damage.

[livid cloak]

You're thinking about it too much imo

Just hit cleave if its available in aoe

Colossus smash gives sweeping strikes anyway

So syncing them is a waste

[sand totem]

Ahhh youre probably right

[livid cloak]

And you dont need to maximize collateral damage buff

If cleave is up, push it

If not overpowe

If neither, mortal strike

Easy

Collateral just happens and doesnt need to be considered in any meaningful way

It just does damage in the background now

[smoky kayak]

if you're doing heavy multitarget content, you probably want to talent Broad Strokes, in which case you don't want to sync Col Smash and Sweep - CS will automatically activate the buff, and then you can save Sweep for after those charges run out

[sand totem]

Word. I definitely took JWU, ill make that swap

[smoky kayak]

with Broad Strokes, you basically have 100% uptime on Sweep; don't worry about it's cooldown, just use it when the initial 12 stacks from CS are low/gone

[fresh spire]

Always loved the weapon from this set

[minor gust]

peak giant 2h sword

[fresh spire]

Considering its ancient its still goated

Pvp sets just hit hard in classic. Had to put alot of time into getting them aswell

When you seen the banana man you knew he had no life and yearned for the mines

[minor gust]

yeah its especially the plate set. Criminal no HD remakes

I would go insane for a modern alliance greatsword

[fresh spire]

They would ruin it let's be real

It still looks good to this day

[minor gust]

So true

[slender sonnet]

Im not personally a big fan of the model for ztroll, I just feel it a bit jank

[smoky bough]

Bfa s1 is a bit of a remake

[slender sonnet]

too small tho

[smoky bough]

It's not as iconic

[slender sonnet]

It needs to clip into the floor

imo

[spiral coral]

Feel like this seasons (last?) tier set only really truly fits male ztroll

It looks so good on them

[slender sonnet]

what uh

MFO set?

[spiral coral]

Yee

[sacred zodiac]

fits well on any humanoid

[spiral coral]

Idk feel like the dangles are too dangly for Nelf/human

[sacred zodiac]

they're wayy too dangly for anyone thats part of the charm

if you dont like them take the helmet off the set still looks good

[livid cloak]

Waiting on tuning so I can double up the ret

Also Aug is insane now??

Again

[slender sonnet]

I have an outfit which is elite glad set from this season + the darkest colour of the masks from wrath pvp and I think it looks dope

[acoustic vigil]

we may be few but we exist /o/

[inland drift]

Big numbers

[rare kite]

unfortunately

[livid cloak]

Hate it

Burn it

[soft viper]

handing out them bonks?

[minor gust]

Yeah that was a good set too but not the same

[halcyon valve]

arms is so back baby

[minor gust]

it never left

[olive nest]

[minor gust]

(insert demolish emote here)

[hasty pumice]

So is this

An arms buff or nerf?

For M+

[sacred zodiac]

idk this isnt the state s1 will be played in and prepatch m+ is outrageous content

[placid pecan]

the biggest arms meme

Dreadnaught damage reduced by 50%.

[nova marsh]

Im p sure were either neutral or actually nerfed

I would be shocked if after a 50% dn nerf its a buff

[minor gust]

logged on for raid heres my mog female nelf supreme

[nova marsh]

That does not match

But pop off king

[minor gust]

[robust cypress]

what's the chestpiece?

[minor gust]

some trading post item like blademasters or something

[robust cypress]

oh kk

[slow saddle]

All that matters

Big sword

[slender sonnet]

my goat of big swords

[acoustic vigil]

Stick, stick is good. Stick with pointy bit works too. (this was the Shadiversity moment 🙂 )

[hexed parrot]

Does somebody know m+0 have a daily or weekly reset in midnight?

[eager sigil]

weekly

[slow saddle]

Where that frlm again

[slender sonnet]

wod challenge modes

[slow saddle]

True will never grt it

Blizzard put it on shop in recolor thx

Ingrave on sword in orcish, looser using cash

[slender sonnet]

real

[slow saddle]

Tbh i dont spend my money in shop. But its a good bussiness model

And i appreciate the possibility

[slender sonnet]

Yeah I try and avoid the shop if poss

[slow saddle]

Same

But its not bad for game, that game makes money

And its not like it takes dev time

Blizzards arts team or wtf its called are great

[dull dock]

Which sword is that

[slender sonnet]

greatsword of the inferno

[olive nest]

Easily among the top 5

[wind sparrow]

So I jumped on arms for the first time since prepatch and I'm probably way behind but did they take away overpower buffing mortal strike? That feels terrible. I loved fat mortal strikes.

[boreal remnant]

PLEASE BRING IT BACK PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

[stiff sorrel]

I don't believe it did, no.

I think they changed the icon though.

[obsidian otter]

It’s still there

[minor gust]

Always was a talent

[livid cloak]

And its a talent that is not currently taken in colossus keys

Afaik

[smoky bough]

Nothing stopping you from taking it

[obsidian otter]

Colossus 😷

[livid cloak]

If colossus has no fans its because I'm dead

[obsidian otter]

[minor gust]

Colo lost me with SD casts reap

[livid cloak]

I'm sure once I play that I'll love it

Sd clap was my favorite

[slender sonnet]

I honestly believe people who say Taesalach is better than that are just malding cause they don't have it

[livid cloak]

Nah that sword is insane

I didnt play wod but I wish I had that sword

Maybe wod remix brings back cm sets

[slender sonnet]

I saw that sword and I had to have it

[livid cloak]

Was it wod or mop?

[slender sonnet]

Especially after I missed out on mop cm sets

It was wod

[livid cloak]

My old brain is getting confused

Okay that's what I thought

[slender sonnet]

I wasn't gonna take another L on mog by not getting wod cms

Tbf if I had done mop cms

It would have been on my paladin

And I would never have rerolled off paladin after getting it so

I guess this is the good ending

[minor gust]

The WOD CM polearm is pretty awesome too really wish I had it

[slender sonnet]

I love it I don't use it that much tho

If they brought back wod CM weps in wod remix tho, without bringing back mage tower appearances and MOP cm sets

I'd be so mad

But I doubt they ever would

At this point

[slow saddle]

Yup

[smoky kayak]

they really should have tbh

[slender sonnet]

Completely agree

[smoky kayak]

but I agree, I don't think they will

[slender sonnet]

I mean tbf they brought back the legion aotc mount and not the mop one so

If there was anyone to make a bad decision relating to it, it's blizzard

reyt shame for those who don't have it, it's a sick mount

[livid cloak]

I actually got that when it was current. Was the last tier I ever raided with any seriousness and what a great time to raid.

It was a shame SOO lasted for fucking ever

[slender sonnet]

SoO was a banger of a raid

[livid cloak]

I rotate this in with invincible and spectral tiger on my ground mount rotation. Love them all

[vestal snow]

lads if my sim tells me I should do 8k8 with all raid buffs + food and I do 8k without it is it more or less correct ?

[untold trench]

https://media.tenor.com/iGLiHp62HwgAAAAM/seriously-seriously-cat.gif

Why not sim without the raidbuffs and see?

[minor gust]

I remember progging Garrosh as a solo tank brewmaster. Good times

[slender sonnet]

give spectral

holy

[nova marsh]

Cm sets and weapons and mage tower skins are never coming back. Because of "sense of pride and accomplishment"

Ngl part of the reason I wonna go back to warr is its the only class I got all the mage towers for...well and dh

[quartz valve]

I haven't played warrior for all of TWW. what's generally the better choice for this node?

shockwave node

now that DR don't cause mobs to go full immune to stuns

[minor gust]

doesnt really matter you can make arguments for both. I would still prio lower CD tho for potentially more stops.

[smoky kayak]

yeah, lower cd is probably better now since there's no more DR

[rich oriole]

Hey guys! As an old DK main, I think to main Warrior this xpac. What's the diff in term of gameplay vs Fury? Faster? Harder?

[olive nest]

Nobody asks you to do grips

[halcyon valve]

arms is better in every way that matters

[dull dock]

This is gold 🤣😂

[slow saddle]

I mean obviously its bait

Go back to dk

[olive nest]

💯🤣 so true

[fresh spire]

Less dps

[slow saddle]

Grips are for tanks is what i always answer

Gcd capped

[limber apex]

hey all, Im a fairly new warrior.. and I gotta say I kinda like arms more than fury after some testing. however, my guildmates have been scaring the f out of me saying that arms is usually MUCH worse compared to fury in PvE - is that true? I also heard that for some scenarios (e.g. aoe/pure st) one is usually better than the other etc? what are your opinions?

[olive nest]

Are you planning on raiding for the top 5 teams in the world next patch?

[dim basalt]

"much worse" is an exaggeration for sure

[limber apex]

hell no lol

[olive nest]

Then you already know the answer, play what’s most enjoyable to you and run with it!

[limber apex]

makes sense thanks!

also, I havent played the midnight beta at all - is the rotation for arms very different from what we have now in prepatch?

[olive nest]

Not much difference really

It’s still react to procs based gameplay

They just added another one with heroic strike now

If you enjoyed arms in tww you are very likely to still enjoy it in midnight

[limber apex]

nice. thanks !

I mean I like fury as well, but it just sometimes feels too spammy for me

feels more like some kind of a combat rogue

like those two big two handers feel like daggers in combat lol

[olive nest]

Haha you’re with good company then I too much prefer arms but flex play whichever one the raid team prefers

[limber apex]

I think if rampage wasnt this '4 hit combo' thing but instead some bigass mega slam with one huge number, I would like it far more already lol

[warm fog]

I have to check myself with that too

[dull cosmos]

Is the Mortal Strike CD hasted? In my head, we hit MS every 4th GCD, but does that leave me waiting a few tenths of a second every cycle?

[minor gust]

If you hover over an ability and the cooldown is colored green then it scales with haste

[dull cosmos]

Thank you. TIL

[sick thorn]

always love when i pull up in my raid and top de dps with my arm warrior

[nova marsh]

Its kind of true but tbh if ur not going mythic it dosent matter much usually

[slender sonnet]

oh man the more you know

[lunar hawk]

Anyone know how to make the Plater addon show when a mob is casting at you? Trying to get better at spell reflecting

[slow saddle]

Playtinator

Profile does it

With text to speech from b.lizzard

[soft lichen]

Any recommendations for a simple / minimalist UI for Warrior?

[fresh spire]

Blizzard ui

[soft lichen]

is that the name of an addon? or just saying use the blizzard default?

[unkempt wren]

Does not get any more simple than base UI. Doesn't means it's good, but its simple

[junior jetty]

Hi can i ask what are the key points of arms warrior raising dps? may be like 3 of them? (since i'm noob i tried guides in wowhead but it was too complicated for me)

[eager sigil]

press mortal strike and colossus smash on cd

[junior jetty]

thx!! have a nice day!!

[nova marsh]

Wow

I just tried colo out on a dummy...this feels horrible

Slayer is okay

[lunar hawk]

Colossus is way better when fighting multiple mobs. During a boss fight just go sit in a corner with popcorn…

[nova marsh]

I'm talking about in terms of actually playing it

Not paying attention to damage anyways cuz my gear is non existant

[lunar hawk]

Same rotation as slayer, just less execute

[slow saddle]

Prepatch yes beta hmm not rly

[nova marsh]

Damn archi's playtime is crazy

[fresh spire]

i think im banned as 666 kinda op

[nova marsh]

I kinda

don't wonna see this

[fresh spire]

😄

[nova marsh]

Yes game I know I've spent an embarassingly long time playing warr

I mained it and played nothing else for 3 xpacks

[fresh spire]

brown class best class

[fresh spire]

alts just arent fun anymore at least for me, rather make a second warrior or play a differnet game on the list

played dk as an alt in wrath/wod/legion but outside that warrior been most enjoyable

[fresh spire]

Now imagine critcakes

[acoustic vigil]

I know the feeling, having leveled all classes and such..I always come back to Warrior, there's something..fulfilling into "I'm gonna charge you and bash you up" 🙂

[slender sonnet]

I dont think I can show mine in here

[nova marsh]

Tbh I kinda wonna go back to maining warr

But DK has been so fun so far

[slender sonnet]

I think warrior isn't my top class

[nova marsh]

well

what is

[slender sonnet]

Maybe druid

there's a chance it's paladin

[nova marsh]

Oh yeah I'll cruify you for that (joking)

[slender sonnet]

warrior might be 3rd

[nova marsh]

Mods kick him

[slender sonnet]

but I only played it since df

[nova marsh]

Oh fair fair]

You have seen the light sicne

[slender sonnet]

I played paladin from wotlk -> wod and druid from wod -> sl

but I also had a massive clear out of alts

I deleted alts with like 40-50days played on them

so my total is way down on what it actually is

im just logging into all my alts to see the damage now

[nova marsh]

I genuinely kind of miss warrior

[slender sonnet]

Im enjoying other classes atm but

warrior is the only class for me

(they say having spent a tier on resto druid)

[nova marsh]

Absoutlely disgusting

for me I think I might do something new

and split my time as evenly as possible between war and dk

[slender sonnet]

Im basically only interested in warrior

I was thinking of levelling my hunter and playing surv but I literally cba

[nova marsh]

It's taken me a long time to admit

but one tricking is bad for me lol

[slender sonnet]

Not one tricking is bad for me

I end up ignoring my main

and falling behind

I can only play so much wow per week

[nova marsh]

Yeah and I do wonna cut back on my wow time

But I think at the very least, whatever class I go with both dps specs will be played

[slender sonnet]

yeah

that's good

alr here we go

let's see how bad it is

[tawdry quail]

Hi

[tawdry quail]

I love arms warrior (all I ever play)

I came to ask u knowledgeable arms warriors about the state of our spec right now

I have to say, pretty sad seeing -20% on mortal strike n excecute

All the tierlists etc place arms low B

[slender sonnet]

It's still prepatch

more tuning will come

[minor gust]

almost like tier lists dont matter

[slender sonnet]

If you enjoy it, play it

[tawdry quail]

Mhmm Ofcs, that’s why I’m not dooming over gicing up for it

[slender sonnet]

tierlists are subjective

[tawdry quail]

But how do you feel about the tuning on arms lately?

[tawdry quail]

Arms > any other class for me dw

[slender sonnet]

I refuse to think about it until I enter the raid for the first time in S1

I'm having fun and most content I do I top meters atm as arms so

[sudden topaz]

tier lists are mostly useless when it's still beta/prepatch

[boreal remnant]

they're useless afterwards as well

[daring heron]

1037

on just the 1 character

[fresh spire]

[nova marsh]

Days?

[daring heron]

well it wouldnt be hours would it

[minor gust]

New kid on the block Critcake making waves

[nova marsh]

Now that's cooked

[fresh spire]

crit has only played 1037 hours of warrior confirmed

[slender sonnet]

real

[nova marsh]

Okay this is seriously starting to bother me

Did blizzard ever do a character purge of inactive toons?

[brisk horizon]

Not to my knowledge. Inactive toons are delisted from the armory and their name is freed up (if you log back into it, it'll make you pick a new name), but never deleted outright

[nova marsh]

I stg, I didn't delete a lot of my old characters I played in legion

but they are gone

[brisk horizon]

Make sure you're on the same realm you were on + on the same wow account (not the same thing as bnet acc)

[hollow wave]

Do we actually have a warrior dev?

[nova marsh]

No

And if we do theyre that one dev who comes in high off their asses to work

[hollow wave]

There is no way dev team play this game

[smoky kayak]

and that's just my main + remix alt!

tbh I don't spend nearly as much time in-game these days though; don't really care about M+ and I don't go out of my way to collect everything anymore

[heady scaffold]

can anyone throw me an arms m+ build

[obsidian otter]

The Rage is dwindle away warrior…

[boreal quartz]

And 267 on the warlock

[slow saddle]

Www.wowhead.com

[inner wasp]

is arms still over party

ignoring tuning just in terms of fun

[slender sonnet]

huh arms is giga fun rn

[fresh spire]

Arms good. Talent tree is much better. Ravager still sorta making builds between each spec somewhat samey as it's forcing ct more in St because Rage can feel rough at time but overall better than last 2 expansions

Die ravager die. We don't need more modifiers to fukin cleave

Hell, if they added unhinged to base bladestorm i bet it would feel better in colossus for CM stacks vs ravager >:c

Think if we get a good aura amount and nerf cleave as much as the aura we get life will be good

+20% on all -20% on cleave etc

[slow saddle]

Hear me out

Buff execute and ms 20%

Nerf cleave 15%

Then aura buff on top if needed

[slender sonnet]

real

[fresh spire]

Damage breakdowns are good like they are. Mostly need all damage raised to keep it same through aura only cleave looks stupid on its own now

I wouldnt hate bladestorm getting further buffs though for some reap damage

[slow saddle]

disagree I WANT MORE EXECUTE DMG

100% dmg to execute as all ST buffs

[fresh spire]

Our execute is still good

More execute = battlelord bad for colossus

[slow saddle]

but more execute = feels good

also IDC Collosus for raid dream is dead anyways ^_^

Nerfing bleeds

[nova marsh]

Dude I will legitment get on my knees if we ever get to raid as colo in best spot

[slender sonnet]

[sudden topaz]

I predict 10% cleave nerf, 8% aura buff

By the time season 1 starts

[sacred zodiac]

🔮

[nova marsh]

No

[rustic creek]

Don't do it bro

[nova marsh]

Its worth it for the spec bro

[slow saddle]

Yeah i wanna demolish raid bosses

[nova marsh]

The ion date is still on the table

[latent moss]

i see skyreaver in the ball

is it over?

i see gio five seven obtaining it

[sacred zodiac]

this is good news

[latent moss]

indeed

@tacit crystal get ready...

[minor gust]

Only 63 get back to work!

[slender sonnet]

what is skyreaver

[latent moss]

a very terrible curse

[slender sonnet]

understandable

wait so tbc is out now

classic arms

nodders

how tf do I go to outland

[stiff sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/invincible-that's-the-neat-part-you-don't-gif-14180388429135427516

[boreal remnant]

mage tower, there's a portal to shattrath

oh wait did you mean in classic

p sure you gotta fly to the dark portal

[slender sonnet]

yeah

I found it eventually

then remembered mop existed

and I wanna get cm sets

so started playing that instead

kinda lazy to have not done it already, xd

[slender sonnet]

we gettin big today (lie)

[minor gust]

Nightslayer?

[slender sonnet]

what my realm?

[zealous lily]

just got back on arms warrior, was wondering for the m+ build, do we spend collateral damage buffed cleaves in ST ?

Mass execution*

[minor gust]

yee u on nightslayer?

[slender sonnet]

Oh uh

I dont think so

[boreal remnant]

I'd do it if it actually translated to live

[slender sonnet]

Im doing it in the vain hope that they do

[obsidian otter]

How would you proc collateral damage in single target?

[slow saddle]

Lmk

[untold pewter]

You can, it's not going to make or break but might hit higher than mortal strike depending on stack count
Assuming you built it up with like an add spawn mid fight and once the adds died you have collateral up

I generally send it within the next CS window

Or just hold it in case there's a next add spawn soon

[slow saddle]

Next adds ofc best if theres 3 i guess.if nothin else for the slam

[boreal elm]

Is arms supposed to be decent dmg right now in prepatch?

[minor gust]

no

[boreal elm]

alright cool, I'll blame the spec then

[minor gust]

[sacred zodiac]

not unreasonable you cleave off of adds that die and have one enemy remaining

[obsidian otter]

"Single target" is not cleaving with adds that would be aoe but even if for some chance you have stacks up even at 3 stacks cleave does less damage than any other skill single target even rend. You can easily see this by getting 3 stacks on aoe target dummy reset your damage. Press one skill each 1 time and look at the damage difference Cleave single even with 3x colateral stacks shouldnt be used at all in single target.

[sacred zodiac]

this was the asked question that you now answered ya instead of asking a weird counter question

there have been iterations where pressing a collateral damage cleave did more st than other options so its not unreasonable

[obsidian otter]

there a reason why alot fail at arms and bottom damage yes we need a buff but people still play it wrong even critcake when he streams arms doesnt know how to play it he even says it and bosses hes barly doing 90-100k single target me and others that actually play ars are doing 150-180k.. Rotation matters on arms more than any other class atm which sucks. As you can play other classes bad and do good. Arms you have to play it almost perfect to be up high in damage

so telling people to cleave single target is bad for damage it just is

[sacred zodiac]

@daring heron is this true

[obsidian otter]

Same boss almost 50k difference

107k vs 150k

[sacred zodiac]

probably not comparable but i do not care about elaborating this further

[obsidian otter]

its massive difference when you do exactly what your suppose to do on rotation and i was scaled down for this fight a +15 i do 180k on that fight

[obsidian otter]

no one usually does when they are wrong its okay i dont either

[sacred zodiac]

lol

[obsidian otter]

just try not to give new players bad advice it is unreasonable to cleave single target it just is

[sacred zodiac]

when have i given bad advice

[thick kelp]

always

[obsidian otter]

saying its not unreasonable to cleave single target

but it is lol its a big damage loss

[sacred zodiac]

reply to the exact line of text where i have said this

[obsidian otter]

this

[thick kelp]

wf+pi+ monk buff vs monk buff

I wonderr

[sacred zodiac]

reading comprehension is difficult tbf

[obsidian otter]

but it is unreasonable lol

[thick kelp]

also your key is a +12, his was a 15 I think

[sacred zodiac]

if you want it spelled out properly i said it is not unreasonable to end up with collateral damage stacks when the very exact situation i described occured

[obsidian otter]

not unreasonable to cleave off adds that die and have one enemy remaining saying you will have colateral stacks to use in single target

[sacred zodiac]

i did not make a value statement on whether its correct to press cleave because i dont know if it is

[obsidian otter]

its not its been tested even with colateral damage stacks it does less

[sacred zodiac]

i dont care about your garbage tests get me some sim data

[obsidian otter]

sim wont even use it in "single target" lol

[sacred zodiac]

i dont think it ever did even in iterations where its correct to cleave with collateral stacks in st cause it would just bloat the apl with lines that no one cares about

[obsidian otter]

which is why thinking about using cleave in single target is just bad

do the math im sure you can its still less damage

[thick kelp]

i mean u can combat log

dummy fight

build to 3 collat stacks

hit a st dummy

compare vs natty MS

[obsidian otter]

those are not sims not what he wants lol

[thick kelp]

well if u want to prove your point thats one step closer

[obsidian otter]

I already did it wasnt a point to be proven that hasnt already been though 🙁

[warped fable]

jet makes a good point and i agree with them, i dont see the reason behind cleave in ST unless you've super buffed it with tons of damage buffs like collat, them being under 35% and the 50% from ravager if you're on colossus

[warped fable]

and i do think that even at that point i do think mortal strike still does more

[obsidian otter]

arms has alot of issues honestly to be one of the few if not only spec to not take all apex talents you know something is wrong. I love playing warrior physical classes are my class fantasy Warrior/Rogue/Hunter This the first xpac even with me topping dps as arms where I turlly feel like if I played one of my other classes I would be doing more damage at a easier time..

and none of the other classes have as much resource issues as we do currently as well which makes it feel even worse

[slow saddle]

Yup

Just give us more rage

And // or reduce price of execute

Idm if rage is slower // stable input. But then our output also needs 2 be stable

Shadowlands arms was pretty much that.

[dim basalt]

Ravager will not ever be taken without massive buffs

[obsidian otter]

even without buffs if your playing colossos Ravager into crushing combo is still miles ahead of blade storm damage lol

[dim basalt]

And if it bothers you so much that you need to do more to deal more dps (which you dont) then why not play something else

I lost count as to how often you mentioned that point over the past 2 or so months

[warped fable]

on colossus its a good pick, just doesnt feel all that awesome

[dim basalt]

Except that it isnt a great pick

[warped fable]

you use it to buff cleave not for the damage ravager provides itself

[dim basalt]

1.5 min cd, ability does no damage and does not benefit from AM, buffs like 3 cleaves

Ah well with CC maybe 6

But the value is still garbage

[obsidian otter]

you realize those cleaves get buffed by 50% during ravager ?

all of them

[warped fable]

^^

[dim basalt]

Still shit

[warped fable]

its literally a free damage boost in aoe 😭

[obsidian otter]

but your still not picking BS over ravager as colossus

[dim basalt]

Ever heard of opportunity value?

[warped fable]

like colossus gets absolutely 0 value from bladestorm

[dim basalt]

Yeah you can pick neither

Shocker right

[obsidian otter]

what do you run instead of it? i dont play colossus just curious?

[warped fable]

there isnt mch of a point to push for execution talents on colossus aswell so the paths to getting towards avatar are limited

[obsidian otter]

you would have to put two points into crit thinking as colossus to reach avatar ..

[warped fable]

yea

[obsidian otter]

im just curious what your swapping out to even achive what your saying

[warped fable]

me or stj

[obsidian otter]

if not picking either BS or Rav as colossus how does that talent tree look stj

[warped fable]

atleast for me, this is my tree

you can question me not using crushing combo

[obsidian otter]

whats crazy is if you sim using BS as colossus in a 5 target sim they dont even use BS lol

[warped fable]

but i have 45% haste due to how my gear has dropped lol

[dim basalt]

There was no reason to add that line in the APL for all of TWW

[dim basalt]

Which is probably better yeah

[obsidian otter]

crit thinking helps single target for sure but outside that it doesnt help your aoe at all

[dim basalt]

Which is fine

[obsidian otter]

that only helps with rage management on execcute phase

[warped fable]

the only moment ive ever felt rage starved with my lil build has been ST

and that barely happens

i see the reason as to why some talents are picked over what ive picked in my build, but like ive mentionned my high haste allows me to have uptime on a bucnh of other abilities so i dont have to invest into those like crushing combo

i only reach 30% crit

[dim basalt]

Isnt everything hasted though

Like Haste does not really do a whole lot

In terms of changing gameplay, not raw value

[warped fable]

faster gcd, ms and cleave are on a lower cooldown

[obsidian otter]

I just wanted to see how it ran without ravager so you do less cleave damage without ravager you do about 6-8k overall less damage in a 40s trash pack pull

[warped fable]

and i also have that much haste cvuz thats all my gear drops have been

[dim basalt]

Yeah, that's all Haste does

[obsidian otter]

and if you try to sim it with bladestrorm its negative damage so sim wont even use BS in the rotation lol

[dim basalt]

You can probably add it manually in some way

[warped fable]

which is where my argument for not taking crushing combo comes from

[obsidian otter]

im sure but even as slayer its good for applying the stacks but your damage doesnt go up like it should using it sadly BS just needs buffed

[warped fable]

cuz i have such a low gcd that i get to abuse the 3 second cooldown of cleave to get the 3 abilities needed to buff it by 75%

[dim basalt]

Im pretty sure Haste does not change that

It all scales the same

[warped fable]

i'm faster at doing it

[dim basalt]

[warped fable]

ive tried playing with crushing combo, and it doesnt flow well at all

[obsidian otter]

it doesnt feels desynced

i think to many procs happen with it which makes the animations wonky

for slayer atleast you have slayer strike proc reap rpocs slam procs 3 things are procing during cleave crushing combo

sometimes your character just stands there lol

[warped fable]

similar vein for me atleast

[dim basalt]

Yeah I don't think they thought CC through at all

But it is what it is

[obsidian otter]

yup like it or love it

they could just put the 3 uses into the cleave damage lol

[warped fable]

idk if im the only one but sometimes whenever i play fury, the animations just break completely lol

[obsidian otter]

on beta it does for me yeah

[warped fable]

i push to 70 haste and 90% of the time it breaks

like the abilities still register and deal damage

iits soo weird to see my guy standing and doing nothing xd

[obsidian otter]

on arms when i have lust im at 100% haste lol

[warped fable]

MAAASIVE

[obsidian otter]

35% base plus the 15% after BS lust 40% and 10% from my racial

feels insane speed for sure

[warped fable]

troll?

[obsidian otter]

Yea

Normally play orc but beta been trying all races to see different slam
Animations and I liked trolls a lot

[warped fable]

yeeee, i'm a orc player too

[obsidian otter]

Their racial is to long honestly compared to every other 2 min one trolls is 3 mins!! But you feel it when you have it 😆

[warped fable]

i mean all things considered that is a lot of haste

[obsidian otter]

Human still OP 2% all stat racial

[warped fable]

but then i gotta play as an alliance human

[fresh spire]

human alliance best transmogs

[obsidian otter]

Until you hit the feet 😆

[warped fable]

i think ive gotten a pretty good transmog on my warrior

[fresh spire]

missing those troll toes?

[obsidian otter]

I have human warrior I have troll orc human and undead and I like the transmog on my human for sure.

[obsidian otter]

Yeah those are ninja toes 😆

We all know bloodelfs are fashion demons!

We are just shadows to them 😆

[warped fable]

this will be my mog going into midnight

i had a vastly different mog for tww

[obsidian otter]

Hoods on orcs look so good

[warped fable]

yeeeee

[minor gust]

I will say making comparisons like this is really dumb. There's a lot more that goes into someone's damage than just hurr durr press buttons right. Group comp, CD timing, Lust?, Potion usage, Key level/fight length and more thats not coming to my head right away.

[daring heron]

isnt that the boss with a 300% damage amp

p sure i just sent cds to see if they'd line up and they didnt

[dim basalt]

FIFO not allowed sorry

[tawdry quail]

This is mine, char name is Miketyson

[nova marsh]

Needs better pants but holy aura on the vibes

[obsidian otter]

There is a lot going into playing any dps knowing when to use CDs when to press what priority in AOE vs single target then just sending your CDs lining them up etc. knowing the fight mechanic what tank your using brewmaster is easy physical damage increase. The only difference was the shaman WF which is a 3% increase would have put his dps to 110k instead of 107k. Key level matters to as higher keys you do more damage because your not scaled down. I was in a 12 he was in a 15 where I normally finish that fight in a 15 at 180-200k vs a 12 where I do about 135-150k I just happen to hit 150k. But if you don’t know your priority your damage easily drops a lot. For arms especially compared to other classes.

[obsidian otter]

Yeah that was the point what it’s like just doing what ever sending what ever when ever vs actually doing the right phases and using your stuff right. A lot of players don’t do stuff like that and just instnstly blame
The class

Even crit on his stream blaming apex talent why his CS isn’t lining up because it was lowering the CD to much and he wasn’t even running the 4th talent to reduce it…

It happens 😆

[minor gust]

I understand what your trying to get at prob best to not use an Amp fight as an example for this as thats more about playing the fight instead of playing the spec.

[obsidian otter]

I mean I could show many but that wasn’t the point

Point was that playing it optimal is a lot different then not

Whole point

[minor gust]

yeah thats what I was pointing too

[obsidian otter]

There people in here that playing wrong spec doing almost 200k less aoe swapped to spec I showed them and they instnstly was doing 150k more in aoe

So many factors but people just instnstly jump to the class

But don’t get me wrong we need buffs 😆

[minor gust]

🫡

We money making now

[obsidian otter]

Aye!! Classic BC?

[minor gust]

yee kinda wish I had a warrior alt ready too I wanna do some Kebab arms warrior

[obsidian otter]

Have you seen the classic + new raid? That’s what I been waiting for. For them to add more content to classic not just same content

[minor gust]

I enjoyed season of discovery so I am eagerly waiting for classic+

[obsidian otter]

Sod was nice touch

Even though fury still better in classic 😭

For pve

[minor gust]

I enjoy classic more for the world pvp main thing that keeps me going pve content is for retail

[obsidian otter]

Yeah that’s why I’m hyped for classic + arms pvp so good in classic

[chrome lava]

the gorehowl can only be used by orcs, sorry, you gonna have to change

[tawdry quail]

My characters title is , Hellscream’s Downfall

If anyone should be wielding it, it’s him

[dire hinge]

valid valid

[chrome lava]

He didnt had that weapon when you defeat him

should use the SoO corrupted ones for accuracy

[slender sonnet]

he left the real one in the sha vault with the 4th boss

[hollow wave]

Is fury still more durable than arms or midnight equalizes it?

[slender sonnet]

did bro even do SoO

[olive nest]

Extra Stam from two weapons
And more passive dr from enrage

[limber apex]

fury is better than arms in almost everything, except pure manliness. such is the road of arms warriors.

arms will always be the hipster choice

[slender sonnet]

going fury just cause its a little but more durable is cringe

yeah I said it

[limber apex]

and dps is a bit more

[slender sonnet]

that really depends on tuning

[limber apex]

I still prefer arms but its just me hating the spamminess of fury

[olive nest]

💯

[slender sonnet]

there are times when arms has been better than fury like s1 on pure ST and S2 generally

[sacred zodiac]

assuming you press your defensives correctly their durability in prog content isn't really an argument anymore more than just fitting the fight style

[slender sonnet]

exactly this

generally if you didn't survive as arms, you wouldn't survive as fury

[sacred zodiac]

isnt arms legit the same apm as fury at this point

[hollow wave]

IP doesn't reach fury HP pool right?

[lunar hawk]

Care to share your build and rotation to actually put up numbers in ST? Newish to Arms and always looking to improve 🙂

[sacred zodiac]

at least during lust/execute

[slender sonnet]

I think midnight arms is a little lower apm but not much

[limber apex]

in execute phases maybe, but fury for me is just constant button spam, arms at least feels some weight behind some presses

I dont feel any weight behind fury keys

efven rampage feels like just 4 wet noodles

my warrior should fucken BOOM and SLAM shit

not noodle it

[sacred zodiac]

1 apm difference in the final tww profiles idk apm difference feels fake as a reason

how it feels is up to you and thats fair enough

[limber apex]

yeah, I mean the feeling more than apm itself

fruy feels like some cooked combat rogue to me

[hollow wave]

IMO fury is way faster, I don't know why and how to explain

[sacred zodiac]

is the midnight arms profile less flat or are both specs still flat merchants

[limber apex]

if you transmog your fury into 1 handers, youre basically cosplaying a combat rogue

[olive nest]

Thunderfury is way to cool not to mog as fury

[hollow wave]

If I lose some GCD as arms,it doesn't feel as bad as losing 1 GCD as fury

[limber apex]

true

[slow saddle]

Lel

So

[slender sonnet]

I guess pressing diff buttons as arms and just spamming RB as fury makes a big diff

[slow saddle]

They are actually pushin those nerfs

[limber apex]

exactly thats how I would put it if I wasnt orc brained

[slow saddle]

To arms

[slender sonnet]

huhhhh

[slender sonnet]

I use fist weapons on a couple of my fury mogs

very cool

[slow saddle]

Ah beta

[limber apex]

have ya'll played arms throughout TWW?

or did you jump on fury bandwagons in s3

[sacred zodiac]

if nerubar was tww then ye

[slender sonnet]

yeah nerubar was s1

I didnt play warrior in S2 just rdruid

[hollow wave]

I do more dps when I don't die

[slender sonnet]

then went back to warrior for dimensius

[hollow wave]

Jk tho, I prefer to play more durable specs tho

[sacred zodiac]

think you could technically play arms on kyveza when it was optimal but shite players just went fury to selfheal any intermission mistakes

[slender sonnet]

^

[slender sonnet]

yuppp

kyveza and sik'ran were arms fights

rash'anan aswell if you just ignored adds

[hollow wave]

You have to sacrifice damage nodes to get stance mastery?

[slender sonnet]

I suppose so

[hollow wave]

Sad, I liked the concept of the talent node

[slender sonnet]

I like it aswell, but I guess other things are more worth

[obsidian otter]

I’ve posted it many times in discord it’s also on Warcraft logs you can see them there on the keys with the stat breakdown etc it’s the same build 95% of the keys are running as slayer that are logging as arms

I try to help people and show what I run and top single target and overall in every +15-18 key I run issue is it doesn’t matter as people still say that build don’t make sense yet it’s the one being used. Producing the best dps and running the highest keys. I felt it didn’t make sense at first but after testing it so much it’s the only one that functions with not having rage issues. Also produces the highest AOE which is what matters more in mythic plus. And still produce high single target. So I kinda gave up helping as what works vs what people want to work are two different things 😢 and most just say arms is dead even when they never even play it in beta.. or playing a spec that just doesn’t work currently.

[limber apex]

even if dps is lower, arms is still the right choice

[obsidian otter]

Always !!

[slow saddle]

Tbf

Arms is deadish

In current tuning

Beta and live in m+

[sacred zodiac]

tuning isnt done until the raids are out for like a week i wouldnt doom too much

[slow saddle]

I mean

True but also fookin give more rage

[sacred zodiac]

what kind of rage starvation is it

like sod style where you gotta budget for the next ms or you literally cant press anything other than ms

[obsidian otter]

Slayer doesn’t have that issue like colossus does but not sure how bad colossus is as I only play slayer arms and slayer fury. And only way you have rage issues as slayer is if you go imp exe talent. If you don’t go that talent you have zero rage issues. You actually sit to high of rage and your biggest rage dump will be crushing combo

Even then it’s only execute phase as your only pressing execute with imp exe on SD procs in AOE and only in execute phase will you ever press execute outside of SD procs

[sacred zodiac]

i guess thats some weird m+ thing i will never click in my life

[dim basalt]

Minigame shenanigans

[obsidian otter]

Now that SD procs guaranteed reap in aoe that’s why your using it in AOE outside that OP and cleave do the most damage. And MS is only used as a filler if you can’t OP/cleave even with the 100% cleave damage 2 target talents cleave and OP does more per skill use Vs MS/Execute in aoe 3+ targets

[lunar hawk]

What’s your warriors name to look up in logs? I’m all about theory crafting and running the numbers to come up with the best build, not the popular build.

[obsidian otter]

I’ll DM to you and it’s the build everyone is using it’s not a secret build it’s just the most functional slayer build currently that works.

[vast surge]

Hey guys anyone else's @player macro's broken?

#showtooltip
/cast [@player] Ravager isn't working for me

fuck me ravager needs a target now

[lunar hawk]

I wish we had the choice, but it shares a node with Bladestorm so we’re stuck with using it on a target.

[vast surge]

[daring flicker]

Spongie loves spreading misinformation

He told me to prio slam over mortal strike

[lunar hawk]

I thought we prio hamstring over mortal strike?

[sacred zodiac]

True

[daring flicker]

Hamstring whilst sweeping strikes is active in AOE

Come on that’s standard stuff

[lunar hawk]

Hamstring gonna hit harder than mortal strike if we keep getting these MS nerfs lol

[latent moss]

peak

[smoky kayak]

its still like 20% of your damage, think it'll be fine lmao

[warped fable]

cleave buffs are nice

but the st nerfs will hurt soo much

[worn knoll]

Just saw patch notes.... so arms warriors are already bottom of the barrel in the DPS rankings, looks like they gave minor buffs to the spec's cleave damage, which was already the only thing it was actually good at, and then.... a 20% nerf to both mortal strike AND execute damage, and on top of that a 60% nerf to the Dreadnaught talent, lol?

I haven't swapped to fury since legion, this is the first time ive actually felt defeated

[lunar hawk]

Don’t forget about the huge 30% nerf to deep wounds too lol

[worn knoll]

the small 2/5/6% buffs during TWW weren't much but at least they were, y'know, buffs T_T

[warped fable]

i am full sending it as a arms warrior into midnight

pray for me

[worn knoll]

I am doing the same out of pure fucking spite

[warped fable]

🤝

[worn knoll]

but I am probably going to be fucking trolling my guild's prog

[warped fable]

are you in a casual guild?

[lunar hawk]

We’re right there with you. I’m moving on from Warlock, I’ve grown bored with it. I still need to change my name lol.

[worn knoll]

late CE lol

[warped fable]

i think youll be fine

unless they are super gigga serious about it

[worn knoll]

for what it's worth, I did get CE as arms in s3 TWW, I'm nothing if not stubborn, I'll stick with the spec until CE in midnight too unless my guild holds me at gunpoint

[warped fable]

legit

atleast this means ill have to run my own key XD

[worn knoll]

But goddamn if it isn't upsetting to see "Mortal Strike" and "20%" under Arms, getting all excited, then seeing the fucking "reduced by" lmfao

[sharp wyvern]

is the guaranteed reap proc on SD coming with the patch cause its not mentioned in the notes

[worn knoll]

That was also getting annoying but being in a guild mitigated that for me during TWW

[warped fable]

ye, ive got a friend group and a guild aswell

[worn knoll]

I wouldn't touch pug keys with a 10-foot pole tho

so many declines

idk what it is about arms but it just works for me, tried fury and I learned the rotation, can execute it properly, but like.... it just doesn't feel as good

[warped fable]

the sound effects

[worn knoll]

fucking loved those fatty execute crits during 15 stacks of jugg

[warped fable]

for a class that doesnt have much in terms of video effects, the sound effects just hit soo good

[worn knoll]

but now no more juggernaut at all and 20% nerf to execute, save me jesus

[sharp wyvern]

jugg was bad

also i remember on ansurekt the biggeest execute crits happened before 35%

[worn knoll]

I am ready to admit that the stacks expired too fast and it was very shitty to have bad RNG on a fight and drop stacks

[sharp wyvern]

cause 3 stacks of marked for execution instead of spamming execute

[worn knoll]

but they didn't need to cut it completely, maybe just add some seconds to the duration so it's more consistent to keep the stacks rolling with SD procs

[warped fable]

i both liked and disliked jugg

i have been playing a lot of colossus admittedly

[sharp wyvern]

jugg would have been awsome on fractillus

[worn knoll]

Cool in concept, but janky implementation in-game

[sharp wyvern]

i give you taht

[worn knoll]

at least imo

[sharp wyvern]

2 things i hated the most are gone now

jugg and fatality

arms is saved in my book

now we just need 1 tier where collosus is meta on ST

[worn knoll]

isn't fatality meta for single target now?

[sharp wyvern]

but its not the same fatality

[worn knoll]

ah right

you mean the one-and-done version

yeah that was ass

[sharp wyvern]

now its just a passive dmg proc

like a passive trinket

[worn knoll]

yeah hard agree with you there, much better now

I still think jugg could've stayed in the game if it had like a 20 or 30 second duration tho, to make it less RNG-prone

[sharp wyvern]

no

fuck juggernault

[smoky kayak]

Not sure where you're getting bottom of the barrel from - Arms has been firmly middle of the pack throughout the prepatch

[sharp wyvern]

are we not getting the SD reap proc with this patch too

so kinda of a buff aswell

[smoky kayak]

Yeah, that's largely why Execute dam was nerfed, because Reap actually adds a lot of power

[warped fable]

i guess the 65% demolish buff sort of counteracts that nerf too?

[sharp wyvern]

the collosal might nerf ye

[smoky kayak]

that just balances out the colossal might adjustment

it works out to a large buff at no stacks, small buff at 5 stacks, and the same damage at 10 stacks

[warped fable]

yea i saw that

first thought was "thats a pretty nice buff for demolsih"

[smoky kayak]

its a nice usability buff, especially on a fresh pull

[sharp wyvern]

is culling cyclone used now ?

[smoky kayak]

in single target yes, though I don't think it's a big difference for Arms

tbh I think they need to buff culling by a lot more

[sharp wyvern]

wasnt that the thing that got hit in S1

they might not want to overdo it

[worn knoll]

are there beta numbers on how much of an increase we get from heroic strikes on single target once we have the apex talent?

[sharp wyvern]

[lunar hawk]

The 65% Demolish buff is quite nice for ST when you struggle gaining stacks. Also at 10 stacks the buffed Demolish is still roughly 25% stronger than it used to be at 10 stacks. I just ran the math on it. It grows slower than before, but the huge base damage buff more than compensates for it.

[smoky kayak]

Yeah, 3% ArP and +2.5% MS, Cleave, and OP dam and crit dam per stack

[smoky kayak]

no its not, its the same number at 10 stacks

oh wait, I see where the confusion is

Demolish was buffed twice during Patch 12.0.1, but the consolidated patch notes combine them into one note

• the first buff was just a general 20% damage increase to Demolish in January
• the second buff in last weeks' build increased it by another 33%, which was counterbalanced by the Colossal Might stack nerf - that one works out to be an increase at low stacks and neutral at max
  Putting both those buffs together is a 65% damage increase and overall higher, that is correct

[halcyon valve]

patchnotes mentioning heroic strike, an ability that does not currently exist 👍 good one blizzard

[sharp wyvern]

it does

we will get the apex talents in the tree

we just cant spec it

[smoky kayak]

Heroic Strike does exist in 12.0.1

[halcyon valve]

technically
practically it doesnt

the apex isnt even visible in the talent screen

[smoky kayak]

it is

in patch 12.0.1

[sharp wyvern]

even if you could spec it you wouldnt even get that much value from 2 min boss fights

[halcyon valve]

either way it should be mortal strike instead of heroic strike thats affected by battlelord shouldnt it

[sharp wyvern]

isnt it ?

[smoky kayak]

na, because Heroic Strike is made free by Fervor of Battle

[sharp wyvern]

so the typo was correct and it was wrong ingame ?

[halcyon valve]

talking about this line from the patchnotes that just got posted

Battlelord now also reduces the Rage cost of your next Heroic Strike by 33%.

[smoky kayak]

oh yeah that's a typo, they just copy/pasted the original patch notes

[smoky kayak]

see here

[halcyon valve]

also still has the typo of "Practices Strikes" for Arms, while having it correctly be "Practiced Strikes" for Prot

[smoky kayak]

meh

patch notes are put together by CMs who don't know any better

[sharp wyvern]

as long as it does the correct thing who cares

[lunar hawk]

Yeah I had to put the numbers down on paper to see how this would work.

This also means you’re guaranteed to rip threat on pull lmao

[warped fable]

i rejoice as i watch colossus get buffed

[smoky kayak]

na you're right, it is an overall buff when you combine both damage adjustments and the stack adjustment into one

[worn knoll]

Oh my bad, I worded my question poorly, I didn't mean what buff the ability will give us; I meant in terms of actual throughput on a boss, do we know how much % of our overall single target damage will be coming from heroic strikes at max level?

[smoky kayak]

but the way blizz did it at the time was buffing everything by 20%, then a month later they made the damage / stack adjustment

[smoky kayak]

No I knew what you meant lmao, but I ain't breaking that down

Heroic Strike itself makes up ~6% of your damage in ST, without counting the buff

[worn knoll]

gotcha, just figured I should ask since there aren't sims and such yet

[smoky kayak]

there are sims

[worn knoll]

Oh word?

[smoky kayak]

to your mother

[warped fable]

wait i just noticed, arch you're the warrior wowhead person xd

Genuinely appreciate all the effort you put into informing and helping the warrior community

[lunar hawk]

Best thing you can do is go to Warcraft logs and look at beta runs

[worn knoll]

I'm guessing these are private/test sims run with stuff from beta then yeah? Or is this log analysis? raidbots doesn't have heroic strike in it yet afaik

[smoky kayak]

you can sim without the talent enabled and that will kind of tell you what it's worth, but it's not necessarily 100% accurate since you would probably want to use HS less if you didn't have those talents

and for the sake of simplicity, the sims actions aren't really setup to account for every concievable combination of talents, it would just bloat the list the point of unreadability

[worn knoll]

appreciate this tho, couldn't find any info on it on google

[worn knoll]

yeah I get that

[smoky kayak]

the buff itself tends to average around 3-4 stacks, so you can paper napkin the math, but overall, Heroic Strike is good enough to be worthwhile - it's only Apex 4 value that is kind of iffy because of desync

[worn knoll]

tbh seeing armor pen kinda threw me off, not sure how much that translates to raw % increase in damage for us, is it 1 to 1?

like, 1% armor pen gives us roughly +1% damage on abilities?

[smoky kayak]

3% ArP is worth roughly 1.3% raw damage

[warped fable]

i mean theres also the warrior set for arms that contribute to the upkeep to colo smash

[worn knoll]

iirc there were like armor caps and shit like that back in wotlk-ish days, I don't know how the internals are working nowadays for our damage calc

[worn knoll]

thank you kind sir

[smoky kayak]

yeah but that increases the duration, while apex 4 reduces the cooldown - the difference being that the latter desyncs it from other cooldowns

[sharp wyvern]

[worn knoll]

yeesh not sure how I feel about that, i hate CD desync

[smoky kayak]

not really applicable now since you can't get that much Armor Pen. Master of Warfare caps at 10 stacks, though you will not ever actually get that high

[olive nest]

Desyncing ahh yes my favorite

[warped fable]

correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt it also dependent on heroic strike procs too?

[thick kelp]

1000 sources of rng cdr

#justwarriorthings

[smoky kayak]

yes, but any amount of procs causes that desync; the more you get, the more it offsets

[warped fable]

yea i was realising as i was writing that

[smoky kayak]

current belief is that Apex 4 is worth for Slayer, but not for Colossus

[worn knoll]

yeah cause anger management affects CS and avatar together so it's nbd, but even a -1sec proc to CS would throw it all out of sync lol

[thick kelp]

Barely worth for slayer too

[sharp wyvern]

give me my sinced up CDs back

[worn knoll]

that really is kinda cringe

[smoky kayak]

and things like Crushing Combo being frontloaded into CS means the more desync you get, the less overlap there ends up being; it's awkward

[lunar hawk]

I was looking at a beta log from one of the +20 dungeons and the Arms warrior only cast Heroic strike 76 times. That translates to 152 seconds of reduced colossus smash, which would have been 3.3 extra casts (potentially) if it’s not already sitting off CD for the entire dungeon run. Not worth it imo

[thick kelp]

CDR also creates moments like this

[smoky kayak]

it's actually a little more, since Colossus Smash cooldown isn't actually 45s

[lunar hawk]

With other modifiers yes it’s less than 45. When you’re just looking at what apex 4 brings to the table on its own, it’s not great…

[smoky kayak]

it's more like 5 extra, which is 10% more casts

which is not bad, the gain is just mitigated by what you lose from desync

[thick kelp]

thats like 300% more dps

[sharp wyvern]

good