Felt like a raid boss
#arms
sharp wyvern
Btw why is fatality so useless rn
cause its better that way
teal fossil
Btw why is fatality so useless rn
it was never good
just the least bad leftover point
shadow ibex
Rework all the capstones
warped ether
It was never good
Was good in df
teal fossil
Was good in df
like i said, it was not good
it was just the "least bad" option
then they giga buffed the bladestorm/ravager node
so the points went there instead
shadow ibex
Yea unhinged just became not bad
Get 3+ mortal strikes everytime you cast bs or ravager (lots) or chance to add a stack that does less dmg than a mortal strike
They even made it affected by stuff now but really kinda the same thing. Free dmg just one is a real mortal strike inherenting all the effects of MS
Maybe if it were armor ignoring bleed that could crit etc
halcyon valve
Get 3+ mortal strikes everytime you cast bs or ravager (lots) or chance to add a...
Less than a slam
halcyon valve
[ticket for one (1) free slam]
charge gets a free slam
Leap gets a free slam
Ms crits get a free slam
Warbreaker gets a free slam
Avatar gets a free slam
Execute gets a free slam
Most importantly
Slam gets a free slam
halcyon valve
What if we had the silly bfa trait where it would empower slam to suddenly do like triple damage
shadow ibex
Df s2 ptr had a slam tier bonus
Wasn't too popular or good
Honestly so much is tied to MS and OP for both hero specs
jovial hare
What if we had the silly bfa trait where it would empower slam to suddenly do li...
crushing assault, my beloved
halcyon valve
It was kind of funny proccing a fat slam that did double the damage of a mortal strike
Also very stupid
minor gust
Alpha notes waiting room
No more speculation just Patience
7 more days till we find out if arms is cooked or not
jovial hare
Also very stupid
very stupid, and kinda fun
and it made slam feel awesome to press once and a while
instead of making me moderately sad to feeling nothing
native obsidian
7 more days till we find out if arms is cooked or not
What's our ultimate talent going to be predictions
copper swan
bladestorm is now permanent and you can do whatever you want while spinning
minor gust
What's our ultimate talent going to be predictions
Slam dmg increased by 20% also we won't know about that for awhile just class changes on the 2nd
teal fossil
Df s2 ptr had a slam tier bonus
it was tuned like piss
i dont think theres anything wrong inherently
its essentially the kaching weakaura but for arms
minor gust
It just did no dmg because it was a tier set for an ability that does no dmg. They coulda keep it if they wanted just buff the shit out of it
teal fossil
ya
exactly
the numbers just need to be tuned 10x higher
but the idea was fine
just like how S3 DF was a good design
but worse tuning than S1
and everyone voted S1 cuz "OMG bigger numbers"
we really voted for an aura buff tier instead of one of the only good tiers arms had
minor gust
That's cuz no one trusted Blizz to tune
jovial hare
What's our ultimate talent going to be predictions
sweeping strikes hits 8 targets but deals 40% dmg instead of 75, enabling m+ slayer
or a mass execute talent
i just wanna play slayer in m+ and do the same level of dam
teal fossil
and colossus players want to play raid without having their knees broken
minor gust
WW will proc reap and slayer will be saved and you will spam WW
latent moss
just like how S3 DF was a good design
hard disagree
it was so bad it was actually kinda nice
u pressed buttons on aoe to proc tactician to press op cause dn did all ur damage
latent moss
it was so bad it was actually kinda nice
tbf it was kinda nice cause it was finally a break
from exe exe exe ms
execute was the only fun part of the spec
and aoe
jovial hare
and colossus players want to play raid without having their knees broken
not sure what'd make Colossus the play in raid
all i know is that slayer just feels better to me
olive nest
Jug is what’s bad about SD procs otherwise I’d like SD procs to matter too
teal fossil
u pressed buttons on aoe to proc tactician to press op cause dn did all ur damag...
but thats OP's tuning though
olive nest
Be powerful
latent moss
oh ure talking tierset
latent moss
i thought u were talking spec design in s3
latent moss
tier was
sometimes
awful
i remember getting back to back procs in execute
not generating a tom
teal fossil
thats toms problem
latent moss
and doing 0 dmg in my overlap later
teal fossil
not the tier
spark mango
i know to push high keys i kinda have to play fury
but damn i love colossus arms
i wish single target was better
latent moss
the only real optimization was building tom for fatality
minor gust
i know to push high keys i kinda have to play fury
You can play whatever you want to push high keys
latent moss
and that wasnt real besides fyrakk and smolderon
spark mango
sometimes you have to mortal strike a lot in certain dungeons during aoe, which makes fury much beter
latent moss
and smolderon was just rng anyway when u phase
minor gust
Just because something is better doesn't mean the other option can't do it
latent moss
well not rng but not up to you
latent moss
You can play whatever you want to push high keys
ask mr tierlist strimmer what he thinks about this
spark mango
Just because something is better doesn't mean the other option can't do it
i was struggling with fury on priory
it felt better for me as arms
same as floodgate
singletarget is a lot lower tho
minor gust
ask mr tierlist strimmer what he thinks about this
Arms in hidden S no one can see it tho but me
minor gust
i was struggling with fury on priory
Then play arms man
latent moss
me when i play doohickey piano gameplay and hyperoptimzie everything to just lose anyway
spark mango
Then play arms man
did it and timed it, but as i say arms can use a little love in single target department
latent moss
arms can use some love in all departments
minor gust
Well your not getting any of that
So you're just gonna have to deal with it
TWW over it's midnight waiting room
spark mango
so you think they are done with tunings completly?
shame, slayer arms remained garbage entire expansion in m+
minor gust
They haven't done tuning in awhile now and and alpha dates and timings was released
Tuning is over with
Even if they do some arms is not on that list cuz it's doing fine
spark mango
need to find some way to squeeze some St damage out of it
minor gust
Don't bother there's nothing more to squeeze out of the current Colossus build just focus on aoe
And play with banger ST specs
spark mango
St trinkets also seem super overwhelming this season
i ran first boss trinket in my priory, wasnt bad but wasnt also great, did 30m i think on a boss fight
teal fossil
St trinkets also seem super overwhelming this season
i dont like it when ST trinks are good
on damage trinkets feel the same for every spec
minor gust
Slayer also after the buffs last tier was not bad in M+ as well
Just wasn't better than Colo still but was not far behind.
teal fossil
ya
people think 2% behind=unviable
like thane for fury rn
but thane for fury has rough ST
minor gust
I still remember some dude telling me slayer was absolutely unplayable in anything above a 16 and said he's a 3 time title player as his credentials
Yup 2% behind def means a Slayer 17 isn't possible
spark mango
if only those numbers defined what actually goes on in m+, the way slayer does its damage and the amount of things you need to track to do some damage is not worth it
any spec can get carried in a 17
2% is in ideal situation, in real world in overall damage slayer arms is miles behind colossus
colossus is just practical
shadow ibex
i dont think theres anything wrong inherently
Its a global that isnt MS OP or exe i guess
All of those have so much affecting them
native obsidian
New hero talent: when your heroic leap lands on a dead ally, the compression resuscitates them, consuming a battle res charge and returning them to 50% health
green geode
dire hinge
bring back vacuum leap 
shadow ibex
I really think there's a chance we gain lust
The lust comps for m+ are a little strict imo
If we saw another class id raise that chance to 100%
minor gust
if only those numbers defined what actually goes on in m+, the way slayer does i...
Was talking about last season which slayer was not much behind at all
dreamy spire
Quick question: If you can use just 1 pot, becasue th eboss is dead in under 5 mins, do you use pot on pull with bloodlust or when the boss is in execute range?
glacial rapids
Bloodlust
Because all of your cooldowns will be lined up and ready to go.
Execute phase does really well all on its own so long as you don't lose jugg stacks.
glacial rapids
I really think there's a chance we gain lust
So Arms and Fury get lost but not Prot is what you're saying?
shadow ibex
I said lust comps are a little on the strict side
jovial hare
if anything warrior as a whole would get it so it's a tank that also brings lust
minor gust
As much as I hate hearing about wanting lust I still have to agree warrior lust fits perfectly thematically and it should have been ours but shamans had lust in Wc3 so they gave it to those losers instead
dreamy spire
Because all of your cooldowns will be lined up and ready to go.
thats not the problem, most of the time i have all my CDs ready on the same time, even on <35% - so i was wondering
green geode
Just bring back skull banner 🤷♂️
glacial rapids
Why would you give 1 tank lust but not the rest? Talking strictly m+ Tanks are already guaranteed a spot soooo why would bringing lust ever be a talking point for other classes? Might as well give lust to every class at that point.
slow saddle
Tanks have cr
shadow ibex
As much as I hate hearing about wanting lust I still have to agree warrior lust ...
Atp idc about theme
slow saddle
1 tank can have lust
shadow ibex
Just for sake of gameplay
olive nest
I do not want the lust responsibility
shadow ibex
The thematic ship sailed when idek what arms is supposed to be
slow saddle
Arms is multiplier spec
olive nest
Warrior is goated specifically because I’m only expected to do damage and live a lot of damage intake
void bay
I do not want the lust responsibility
it's a huge responsibility....if someone says "LUST NOW!!" and im on hunter or shaman I panic, fumble the keys, then just jump off the map and start crying
shadow ibex
I do not want the lust responsibility
Thats like the definition of arrested development lol
Ot weaponized incompetence
slow saddle
Haha
glacial rapids
it's a huge responsibility....if someone says "LUST NOW!!" and im on hunter or s...
minor gust
Just for sake of gameplay
Well having lust won't change much at most you get invited to a couple more keys than declined
glacial rapids
Well having lust won't change much at most you get invited to a couple more keys...
Bro you would be competing with tanks and other warriors... it would change nothing
slow saddle
I mean if war had lust
slow saddle
Could flex melee comp
minor gust
It's why it's a dumb thing to argue about
minor gust
Tuning is king
shadow ibex
Well having lust won't change much at most you get invited to a couple more keys...
Also let's you build a comp different
glacial rapids
Giving warriors lust would only further the homogenization of every spec in this game where mostly everyone already has everything... and everyone else wants what they don't have.
shadow ibex
Not talking about pugging at all
minor gust
Also let's you build a comp different
If the game is in a balanced enough situation to allow for more comp diversity
But that's not usually a thing
shadow ibex
Don't need guildy to swap shaman etc
I think its inevitable someone else gets jt tbh
minor gust
It's only been recently this tier and last has M+ balance been really good
shadow ibex
And like I said if another class is added 100% another lust
shadow ibex
It's only been recently this tier and last has M+ balance been really good
I disagree strongly
Last tier fury was aoe capped in a season of huge pulls
An expac of huge pulls frankly
minor gust
Just because one spec sucks doesn't mean m+ wasn't very well balanced
shadow ibex
Thats another issue going forward
minor gust
We went from always having a meta comp of the same 5 specs to having multiple competing comps
shadow ibex
Just because one spec sucks doesn't mean m+ wasn't very well balanced
Im sure we could find others i just play warrior
minor gust
Surv hunter too was giga bad
shadow ibex
But designing massive pull dungeons with aoe capped specs isnt balanced well imo
shadow ibex
Thats poor design. They can do better
minor gust
It's not a problem for fury anymore
shadow ibex
No reason to accept shit work
minor gust
As it's doing just fine
shadow ibex
If our tier comes forward yes
Or they continue to keep an eye on it and give it creative ways to do damage past the cap
Fingers crossed they do that
minor gust
Again all this shit your bringing up doesn't deny that the last two seasons of M+ have been insanely well balanced compared to the history of M+
shadow ibex
I think turbo is why
glacial rapids
But designing massive pull dungeons with aoe capped specs isnt balanced well imo
Would you prefer there is no difference in any class? Just a wash of grey with either melee or range and everyone can do everything?
minor gust
The fact that so many specs are good is insane
But yes there's still always going to be bad ones
Like fury last season
shadow ibex
Turbo is why they were good
latent moss
Or they continue to keep an eye on it and give it creative ways to do damage pas...
i mean issue is right
atm fury kinda does everything
which they dont want but also fdk does everything
but i remember them explicitly saying they want identities
shadow ibex
And yea current season is amazing balance
Meanwhile this spec is impossible to justify
How many need to be shit until the balance is bad?
1/32?
latent moss
ye its impossible cause fury does everything
like
you cannot make an argument for arms over fury
usually you can
like s2 df for example when fury was objectively better
arms still had a niche
sks was very good in brackenhide for example
until aug ofc
and until everyone got 43890 aura buffs and we got 0 and just fell off a cliff
imo if u have a class with multiple dps like warrior
dps specs should complement each other
so u change ur spec depending on the content
shadow ibex
More. Aggressive. Tuning.
latent moss
nah they just have to realize m+ is a real mode
latent moss
they refuse to acknowledge m+ as a real mode
shadow ibex
Instead of a bunch of pearl clutching "not everyone has tier yet"
latent moss
ik a LOT of people who raid only for the gear
shadow ibex
This the first season I took m+ seriously
latent moss
and just want to play m+
shadow ibex
Feels disgusting hamfisted into fury
Dude i was streaming saladbar prog to guild discord
"Do you really only use rampage and raging blow"
I execute sometimes too!
latent moss
for slayer this entire expac
shadow ibex
I didn't like sd usage until this tier
latent moss
same
shadow ibex
Too feast or famine prior
minor gust
they refuse to acknowledge m+ as a real mode
This right here
latent moss
im ngl i despise slayer arms
minor gust
They have 5 man modifiers
latent moss
ever since i tried it on beta
minor gust
But they don't use for dps
latent moss
it doesnt flow well and devalues execute
minor gust
It's because they made slayer about SD not execute
latent moss
yep
minor gust
Which is not what execute should be that last %hp is the focus
Idc if it fucks us over on farm
shadow ibex
It's not an execute spec imo its an SD spec
minor gust
Execute niche is a part of arms identity
minor gust
It's not an execute spec imo its an SD spec
100%
latent moss
literally
minor gust
Nothing
shadow ibex
Only execute buffs is our tier currently
Lol
Idk im also p much seeing demolish and BS as the same thing as well. Lots of cdr. Aoe dmg. Applies debuffs
olive nest
+1 here, execute mattering for arms is when it feels the most fun
shadow ibex
Only demo actually hurts stuff unlike arms bs
shadow ibex
The singular hit is still less damage overall than if they had a regular talent
But it would be cool to see the boss health drop a few % as soon as 30 hits
foggy flame
I remember trying it last season and like 30ish stacks did maybe 30mil
Felt very underwhelming
shadow ibex
20+ hits all popping for 40-50mil each would be funny to see
Actually curious to see how it would happen. Wonder if it would lag the game
If they all did it at once
foggy flame
I cant wait til I can turn everyone else's spell effects off
I don't need to see the 20 chaos bolts exploding on the boss
foggy flame
🙂
shadow ibex
Have to reapply everything every login
foggy flame
I use elvui
So I dont have to mess witb anything really except for the combat bar/hud whatever its called
The stupid health bar under my character when I get into combat
shadow ibex
I just mean graphic options
foggy flame
Oh
shadow ibex
They don't seem to save at all
foggy flame
None of that shit resets for me
viral brook
So I know most people are running fury but how does arms compare overall? Currently raiding on fury but have the itch to learn arms
thick kelp
Fury does everything arms does but better (apart from burst in mass aoe)
shadow ibex
Strictly worst than fury p much
It is around this time tuning comes
In 2 weeks it could be s tier
foggy flame
🙏
minor gust
So I know most people are running fury but how does arms compare overall? Curren...
Worse than fury in every way but if You're not going for CE feel free to learn arms and have fun. It's not bad enough that your trolling on the early mythic bosses and heroic
warped ether
you reckon i could smash a 15 with slayer ?
minor gust
Easily
Will you be top on overall against equal skilled players no
But you will smash a 15 no prob
shadow ibex
Waiting on that 8% aura
weak rain
arms should get 5-8% or target spell buffs, in midnight hopefully they move from that disgusting sd proc shitfuckery. Hell, I'd be perfectly ok with them removing sd completely for arms if they made execute actually feel good and strong. I think arms played without sd and even 35% execute talent in like bfa and their execute profile was otherworldy
teal fossil
we love not doing damage outside of execute
weak rain
not that extreme, but right now slayer sd spec is disgusting
colossus st feels better to play
teal fossil
SD is a tuning lever to close pre and post execute damage
if you just tune base kit damage of arms up and remove SD
execute will not be exciting
weak rain
I disagree
teal fossil
👍
dim basalt
I think its fine if you make MS / OP more interesting
teal fossil
ya thats valid
weak rain
current sd spam is just fucking stupid, I'd be ok with sd like in df. Hell in s3 df set SD felt amazing
teal fossil
but yes having too much SD does make execute not feel as rewarding
but it makes execute focused talents be actually playable in m+
weak rain
Its weird but I adore thane/colossus st rotation more than both slayers
like ok, colossus less, more like colossus s1 version where ur execute was good
as colo too
weak rain
Im not talking damage, I'm talking about feeling of the kit
teal fossil
and yes thats the design
weak rain
colo was undertuned and still is for st, I refuse to believe that it's untunable if they wanted for st
shadow ibex
They can easily do it
weak rain
Idk, enjoyed every moment of colossus gameplay on 7th boss in 1st raid
shadow ibex
Thru the first hits of demolish, making op stack buff stronger
viral brook
I feel like an aura buff won't work. Rework the spec so you don't have to pick all ST or all AOE
weak rain
idk how the fuck they didn't make avatar give 10 stacks of might, it's such an obvious qol
shadow ibex
Queens court is the only time all expansion arms has been enjoyable in raid
Its no coincidence it was also not slayer 
smoky kayak
I feel like an aura buff won't work. Rework the spec so you don't have to pick a...
you don't really anymore
viral brook
No? I thought that was the main reason fury is beating arms currently? The flexibility with the raids having as much cleave as they do
weak rain
the diff vs slayer fury doing randomly insane cleave dmg(reap brrr) while being insane st and arms taking cleave for some cleaving is insane though
smoky kayak
not at all, it's more just the fact that Fury AoE is quicker/burstier than Arms
alongside general tuning ofc
weak rain
not at all, it's more just the fact that Fury AoE is quicker/burstier than Arms
...
aint no way, arms cleave in st-ish build is piss compared to fury
smoky kayak
alongside general tuning ofc
viral brook
Yea OK
smoky kayak
Arms AoE is only a 1-4 talent point investment, depending on exactly how much of it there is
- raid multitarget builds typically only take Cleave, rarely Improved SS or Fervor, but rarely Bonegrinder
weak rain
arms can drop bb points for fervor/longsweep/cleave yea sure, the point is that arms cleave is piss compared to fury
fury is just better at everything so
smoky kayak
A lot of that is just general tuning atm though
But it's also the nature of raid multitarget - you can't really design multitarget damage checks that are clearable week 1 but aren't completely trivialized by rank 5+, and Cleave isn't a burst tool, so you're not going to talent into Cleave to use it once or twice before each add spawn dies anyway
that applies to Fury too though, there's no point in talenting into Imp WW/Meat Cleaver for a fight like Heroic Dimensius, because you don't spend any appreciable amount of time actually cleaving; it's all bladestorm. If Fury cleave worked more like Arms, you probably wouldn't do it for M Forgeweaver either: the main reason WW is useful is because you can apply the buff preemptively, but you rarely spend much actual time pressing WW while the adds are out
Don't forget though that Arms also has innate 2 target that Fury doesn't, it's just a crapshoot whether that happens to be something that's useful in the current tier or not
shadow ibex
Id say that really points out how bad sweeping is that you can count on one hand how much genuine use it is a tier
In heroic even which is the majority of how players engage with the content
So yea it doesn't cost a talent but it also feels very weak unless you can do some weird cheese. I'd say the strongest its felt besides queens court is mugze and thats not cuz sweeping was good dam, its cuz I could keep exe jug going without feeling guilty about not hitting boss
fresh spire
WTB passive execute/ms sweep 🙏
shadow ibex
smoky kayak
Id say that really points out how bad sweeping is that you can count on one hand...
I don't know that it's an issue with Sweeping or its just a matter of fight design - Blizz hates melee cleave
it's always been used very sparingly, whereas spread cleave is represented on like half the raid fights ever made
shadow ibex
I think colossus makes good use of it but thats also cuz it cranks the cd down on demo since it double dips
But even that isnt something im thinking about. Im still mashing cleave during it anyway
slow saddle
Legit
If col had st of slayer
Arms wouldda rocked this tier
Demo sweep into packs and op
Sadly it sucks
weak rain
idk why they don't want colo to be good st, just because it has good cleave/sweep potential? But look at fdk
weak rain
same m8, same
slow saddle
Like even if i had to play juggernaut in raid
weak rain
I like how Thane randomly buffs execute by 25% by 1 of their talents, imagine if colo had it
minor gust
idk why they don't want colo to be good st, just because it has good cleave/swee...
I assume its more they like the diversity of one hero talent is great for M+ and the other is great for raid
That's most likely blizzards ideal world
weak rain
^
slow saddle
Warlocks mages
minor gust
Key world ideal
slow saddle
#doubt
shadow ibex
Most tank specs also
weak rain
Ye, also it makes sense that bladestorm spec worse in aoe, perfect sense
minor gust
I'm not sure about other specs as much I remember when dratnos made a video about it most specs used both hero talents in some part of the game with only some being purely one
shadow ibex
If they are aiming to gave an m+ and raid they are failing in a lot of cases
minor gust
If they are aiming to gave an m+ and raid they are failing in a lot of cases
Which is not surprising for blizzard
shadow ibex
Because many just slam a single with a few talent changes like fury
Just saying I can't really get behind this being their goal
They haven't nailed it at all
Or their ideal world
minor gust
Just because they haven't nailed it doesn't mean that's not their goal
This is Blizz we're talking about
shadow ibex
Well have they done anything to suggest it is?
They haven't said it outright
Nor does the tuning suggest it
minor gust
Arms hero talent situation and fury until now is a pretty good suggestion.
Just my assumptions obviously I know nothing like everyone else that's not blizz
weak rain
Well, Fury doesn't really care about thane anymore, fury is currently reaping
shadow ibex
Arms hero talent situation and fury until now is a pretty good suggestion.
Yea no I think this is more a coincidence than anything
minor gust
Key word until now for a season and a half fury was thane and was gonna be thane until that fix
shadow ibex
And its not even a preferable situation as we find
Because all it's done is made us play the same gameplay for an entire expansion in raid save 2/3?
minor gust
Yea no I think this is more a coincidence than anything
I'll have to rewatch the dratnos vid then I might be misremembering but I coulda sworn a lot of specs used multiple hero talents
shadow ibex
I just cant see why I would be excited about it if it was their goal to begin with.
minor gust
For both hero talents to be usable?
shadow ibex
All you've done is railroad me into playing the same spec for an expansion
No, making one the raid spec and the other a m+
At least DKs swapped between rider and deathbringer
We've been playing slayer since first boss in s1
minor gust
Prob just more of a design issue. Colo doesn't lean hard enough in ST and slayer doesn't lean enough into aoe
shadow ibex
There isnt a world where I can view that as a good thing
Unless they make big gameplay changes between expansions cleave MS OP for 2 more years in m+
minor gust
At the end of the day it is just tuning but it does make me think they are overall happy with the spot colossus and slayer is in
slow saddle
Prob just more of a design issue. Colo doesn't lean hard enough in ST and slayer...
Colo could
minor gust
Could what
slow saddle
Easily do good st
minor gust
Colo could
Actually yeah what I said there was dumb. Both hero specs have sufficient tuning knobs to make them giga single Target or AOE
Just blizzard for whatever reason. Just kept us playing the same stuff every tier
slow saddle
Tier does fuck col
From st // raid id say
Also col just feels like leggo df arms
And i liked that
I still want reck on wb back
Not the rage part
spiral coral
Give arms lust
doesn’t fix anything
vivid mantle
Does the Slayer talent Reap the Storm proc off of the Bladestorm talent Unhinged?
minor gust
yes
loud fjord
only with ravager for me or im doing smth wrong
pearl nymph
@minor gust you push high key as arms ? Since you think fury and arms only is 2 % diff
minor gust
when did I say the diff between fury and arms is only 2%
pearl nymph
My bad read wrong thing, but to say arms is fine, I wouldn’t say that fury is way ahead in both m+ and raid
thick kelp
Fury isnt way ahead, fury just does nearly everything arms does but better
minor gust
Arms is fine yes but fury is just better than arms in all scenarios both are true
grave mulch
Fury isnt way ahead, fury just does nearly everything arms does but better
the fact they fixed a bug with fury a while ago and gave it a DPS gain is crazy D:
magic canopy
Guillotine when
sage badge
Arms owns.
sage badge
stuck geyser
perhaps silly question, but I have a hero Antenna and Myth helm in my vault, and I mainly care about M+. I assume that Antenna is the pick, but a dungeon slice sim on raidbots really seems to think that Antenna is only a slight upgrade over a freakin champ track Void-Touched Fragment (https://www.wowhead.com/item=238386/void-touched-fragment) (my other trinket is a CSI). Is the sim wonky, or is this delve trinket secretly bis?
spare lichen
where the sim at
ionic tendon
perhaps silly question, but I have a hero Antenna and Myth helm in my vault, and...
Probably just has more to do with the fact you are gaining around 1,000 STR + other stats with the helm choice.
stuck geyser
Probably just has more to do with the fact you are gaining around 1,000 STR + ot...
that makes sense
teal fossil
it’s as a trap as anything else is
stuck geyser
Probably just has more to do with the fact you are gaining around 1,000 STR + ot...
so would you say just taking the helmet is correct here, and hoping to get another trinket through drops?
shadow ibex
you can just pug heroic for shot at antenna not farmable but its not a mythic so nbd
ionic tendon
so would you say just taking the helmet is correct here, and hoping to get anoth...
Depends on the content you do but since you already have decent trinkets I probably wouldn’t pass up myth track.
stuck geyser
I mostly just do M+, I dont expect to get an antenna from anywhere other than vault
but if a myth track helmet is just better, a myth track helmet is just better!
oak kite
torpid jackal
W
wary bay
can anyone help me look over my Mythic Frac kill log?
or point some things out for me, just trying to improve
smoky kayak
Can you MS Saladbar before dragon heal
I haven't actually looked myself, but I previously heard it didn't actually affect his heal
rigid bobcat
I would 100% say this dosnt work as it is a health transfer
finite grotto
tuning tomorrow boys?
boreal quartz
final flame
Anyone think it would be worth taking shattering throw for Mythic Plexus
minor gust
Free dmg take it
calm hollow
Hmm, I never took that
Might be actually good
Will forget it by next reset anyways 
calm hollow
I haven't actually looked myself, but I previously heard it didn't actually affe...
Would be kinda broken ngl
On the other hand, after turbo boost and the next damage buff, we will kill the drake anyways
fresh spire
Can you MS Saladbar before dragon heal
As far as I know it used to work but was hotfixed so it doesn't anymore
calm hollow
That fight could have been an awesome arms fight
vast glacier
That fight could have been an awesome arms fight
Yes but sadly there is this Platform intermission
calm hollow
Yep
halcyon valve
I haven't actually looked myself, but I previously heard it didn't actually affe...
It would be turbo stupid if anything affected that heal
They would have to up the boss hp so much to offset it
Imagine the boss is supposed to heal what, like 40%?, and it heals for 20% instead, yeah lmao
vast glacier
We had First time P3 Yesterday but ppl (mages) are still somehow to incomoetent to Catch there visages
Because of channal abilitys
calm hollow
It would be turbo stupid if anything affected that heal
They would have to up th...
Thats literally how Echo killed Jailer world first
sharp wyvern
Can you MS Saladbar before dragon heal
wasnt there a hotfix so it wont work anymore ?
halcyon valve
Thats literally how Echo killed Jailer world first
And it was a bug iirc
Jailer was not supposed to be affected by anti heal
wet zinc
do people prefer antenna or pacemaker for keys? seems to me that pacemaker is better in short fights and antenna in longer?
night niche
Why cant col arms ( raid spec) have same st as fury m+
because blizz hates arms and don't know what to do with it
slow saddle
True but col ia fyn
night niche
yup i like the big bonk and would be nice with better single target
misty bridge
Jailer was not supposed to be affected by anti heal
Nah they stated in a interview that it was their intention for MS to affect the heal
grave mulch
do people prefer antenna or pacemaker for keys? seems to me that pacemaker is be...
the proc of antenna is very high. plus you can get multi orbs floating in and they stack
slow saddle
because blizz hates arms and don't know what to do with it
My dream was simple
Let each hero tree have a season in raid
I think raid col spec shows core arms isnt to bad
shadow ibex
It would need other talents to be good imo
The fact both hero specs play the same shit in st is p dumb. Not that you'd play colossus st 
wet zinc
how do you usually line up cds in keys? TR and ravager sometimes dont line up with avatar for me. do i just hold them?
dim basalt
how do you usually line up cds in keys? TR and ravager sometimes dont line up wi...
Depends how much cooldown is left and whats coming up
green geode
Why is my avatar coming off CD faster than my idol
They are the same CD and im not staggering the usage
acoustic mulch
Affix the buff from this weekly Emissary gives cd reduction
wet zinc
Depends how much cooldown is left and whats coming up
do you have a rule of thumb for it?
dim basalt
do you have a rule of thumb for it?
less than 10 seconds most of the time
Or if the current pull is whatever and you have a big one coming up
green geode
Affix the buff from this weekly Emissary gives cd reduction
Thank you, I thought i was losing my mind
acoustic mulch
👍
wet zinc
less than 10 seconds most of the time
fair
halcyon valve
Somebody find the lowest dps talent build please thanks
lean wraith
guys why is haste so desired by arms? tooltiip says it just increases speed of attacks, but white hit damage is nothing
does it also lower the gcd somewhat?
dim basalt
does it also lower the gcd somewhat?
It decreases the gcd on every spec
Which is why you have really short gcds during lust
shadow ibex
P sure more slayer strikes so more sd as well
Its gotta be hasted
Fury gets so many during lust
teal fossil
most procs in the game are hasted
shadow ibex
Fatality is ppm but idk how that goes
Seems pretty consistently like 3% unless doing cheese stuff in df
thick kelp
Fatality procs are also hasted
8 per min + haste
But for Arms haste = more rage + more abilites used
crit = more rage generation + more dmg since we are so reliant on amps on amps on amps
mastery is just basically a 2nd versatility for damage only
shadow ibex
So would big crit big mast colossus mashing MS have the least fatality?
weak rain
They just need to make fatality able to crit for lulz
or just... damage increased by amount of your crit chance
dim basalt
hell naw
fossil thistle
Reset boss guys í didn’t crit
shadow ibex
Can just make it ignite style bleed proc on ms cast
That way works past 30%
And can crit be affected by stuff etc without gamba on one huge hit
Just a big rolling dot cuz you keeping MS on cd cuz thats what colossus should do and slayer should never want fatal
Add capstone under it that explodes the dot with cs for aoe/funnel value
latent moss
also could do like
u ms someone and fatality gets applied
cleave funnels fatality into the one u ms'd first
cause cleave generates on all hit but without aoe execute there is no way to pop them all
minor gust
f f f f funnnnnellllll
6 more days till we get to see how fucked arms is for midnight
dim basalt
fresh spire
minor gust
Everyone knows if we're not on day 1 alpha notes it's all over no love for us
No day 1 notes means no rework which means 5 lines of changes in beta
tranquil oar
guys today i only waited 1hour and 20 minutes for a +15 and some one to fail and leave feels great to be arms
gaunt owl
-Warrior fix
-Deleted from the game so people can have fun again
olive nest
That’s a weird way of spelling Evoker
minor gust
1 wow token dance of death is still ass
I remember. Surely dance of death and spiteful are gone in midnight right?
Time to make another bet too which talent is getting cut in half this time to replace a removed talent
I'm guessing bloodletting cut in half next
Gotta talent into rend extension
latent moss
i cant think of a talent that snot bloodletting
shadow ibex
Blooodletting has to go imo
latent moss
idk it kinda does nothing
shadow ibex
Fuck bleeds man
shadow ibex
idk it kinda does nothing
Thats what I mean I guess
I just always take it cuz it does 19 things but nothing exciting
latent moss
bleeds are fun asf when done well
minor gust
Everyone likes a good dot but when you have two different dots that needs to be applied and one only gets 5 applied at a time makes me hate bleeds
latent moss
Everyone likes a good dot but when you have two different dots that needs to be ...
two "different" dots
0 interactions with anything
u just apply them and they tick a bit and thats all
so boring
minor gust
Cleave applies DW to all targets hit, but blood and thunder can only hit 5????????????????????
latent moss
move rend dmg to deep wounds and just get rid of rend atp
ever since df rework
rend makes no sense
minor gust
0 interactions with anything
Yup at least DW is giving you a boring dmg buff. Rend says hello I exist cuz boomers love rend cuz nostalgia of classic warrior
Still can't believe when Archi told me ppl hated rend and DW combined in MOP
Either make rend actually interact with our shit in somehow or say bye bye.
latent moss
merge rend into dw and give us trauma back
minor gust
Season 3 DF tier gave rend a chance to proc SD where's more stuff like that
latent moss
wdym
minor gust
Rend ticks have a chance to just give you an op proc fuck it
minor gust
The higher chance of SD came from rend
That's why in keys you were just getting a ton of SD procs
What helped with the Jugg bleed build in M+
teal fossil
That's why in keys you were just getting a ton of SD procs
i distinctly remember this being PPM
so it wasnt that much better in keys
though its been a while
gaunt owl
yes it do was PPM
teal fossil
shadow ibex
Cleave applies DW to all targets hit, but blood and thunder can only hit 5??????...
Thats how you know none kf them play arms
minor gust
i distinctly remember this being PPM
I could be wrong too been long enough I barely remember last month
shadow ibex
If any dev played arms at like 50% efficiency
olive nest
merge rend into dw and give us trauma back
What’s “trauma” idr
shadow ibex
They would know this shit
It was ppm
It wasn't funnel at all. We didn't gain a ton more procs with more rends
minor gust
Either way give rend some sort of interaction with the kit that's not bloodsurge or remove it
SKS isn't enough either
latent moss
What’s “trauma” idr
ms exe crits leave a bleed
teal fossil
Cleave applies DW to all targets hit, but blood and thunder can only hit 5??????...
ok i kind of get this one
DW is a part of your mastery
rend is just damage
and in SL dw wasnt really much damage
latent moss
rend is just cringe
teal fossil
in BFA i heard it did giga dam
olive nest
Oh shit ms exe Crits leaving a bleed sounds cool af!
shadow ibex
Dw did gig dam
Rend not so much
It was only really good in sl
And thats cuz it came with crit amp
minor gust
ok i kind of get this one
Nah I can't get behind that remember if you don't talent cleave you have no possible way to apply DW in AOE besides WB and BS
minor gust
Which it's not easy to maintain DW without cleave at 100%
shadow ibex
Nah I can't get behind that remember if you don't talent cleave you have no poss...
Thats how we played for most of arms btw
Tww is the exception
teal fossil
do you want less burst without wb in exchange for "more throughput" with cleave
shadow ibex
This is the first time cleave has been this dominant
teal fossil
Thats how we played for most of arms btw
cleave was a dead talent until df right
teal fossil
during 3 pick 1 cleave was like untakable
shadow ibex
It's been dead for years
minor gust
DF season 1 was big cleaves
slow saddle
Nah I can't get behind that remember if you don't talent cleave you have no poss...
Hear me our
minor gust
Then cleave died in season 2 and 3
shadow ibex
We've not used cleave for longer than we used it
slow saddle
Cleave baseline
shadow ibex
We didn't touch it for like half a decade
teal fossil
reaping stirkes
i love cleave every other gcd
i love it being invasive to my rotation
shadow ibex
Lmao
minor gust
Blademasters torment
shadow ibex
Its so awful man
minor gust
Teehee
slow saddle
Problem isnt having to talent cleave problem is, our talent tree is bad
shadow ibex
i love it being invasive to my rotation
Another amazing line man
Proof they literally just be saying shit
Cleave is too invasive
As if it isnt now?
minor gust
6 more days and we'll know
shadow ibex
It dominates the aoe it isnt invasive
minor gust
Well know the fate of this Godless spec
shadow ibex
Its fuckin king supreme
minor gust
Cleave is prob here to stay the way it is for good tbh
Seeing how Fdk rework just copies arms in the same way
minor gust
Here is the same buttons but one is for ST and other is for aoe
slow saddle
Qol at least give us that😊
minor gust
I like cleave
I got no problems with cleave either as long as they make WW work with reap and slayer can be the cleaveless spec and Colo is the cleave spec
slow saddle
Here is the same buttons but one is for ST and other is for aoe
Works on dk
minor gust
So there's some difference
shadow ibex
Cleave is too invasive so we made it better than it has ever been in the history of the game ever
shadow ibex
What it should be is
teal fossil
you can only cleave-op-cleave-op so much
shadow ibex
you can only cleave-op-cleave-op so much
When you WW 3+ your next MS hits everything in front
Ez done
teal fossil
sure
shadow ibex
Let ww be good for slayer
teal fossil
probably good
teal fossil
my only minor concern is that, you would have to balance around slayer getting a free point in AOE
not like it matters right now since slayer is weaker in AOE
green geode
Why isn't sweeping strikes a permanent passive atp
minor gust
Because only prot warr is allowed to have the better passive SS
Crazy they got it before us and execute cranks
slow saddle
not like it matters right now since slayer is weaker in AOE
If ww proccs reap😅
minor gust
slow saddle
Slayer would own aoe no?, at least if 4p included ww
dim basalt
WW proccing reap would be so lit
slow saddle
Ideally 4p should include ww//cleave
minor gust
Me and Fishy talked about it when they giga buffed WW
If it procd reap 100% slayer becomes the WW Fob spam build
For aoe
shadow ibex
my only minor concern is that, you would have to balance around slayer getting a...
They would have to aoe without ez sauce of dw
minor gust
It's actually fine if you're able to spam WW/MS
You can reach enough CDR on WB
I tried it awhile ago
shadow ibex
Yea thats how we played in the past lol
slow saddle
Arms is deffo at a low point at
M
Direction and playstyle wise
I know its not that far behind as to not be viable
halcyon valve
Why isn't sweeping strikes a permanent passive atp
Would be lame af
minor gust
Some would say arms is at a low point all the way since legion
teal fossil
ya
i still think 9.1 arms was overglazed
EB slot machine
ppl just overlooked it cuz it performed well
shadow ibex
i still think 9.1 arms was overglazed
100%
It was the worst gamba ever
Just some guy has 80% uptime on cs
slow saddle
EB slot machine
Mah
shadow ibex
You dont gg
fossil root
I want Legion Warbreaker back.
slow saddle
Wasnt it sl?
slow saddle
Spikes
shadow ibex
Delete spear
Delete roar
Make ww good for slayer delete cleave
Give colossus frontal ms if he hits 3+ with ww
slow saddle
I mean spear and roar can go
shadow ibex
Can and should
Make a bunch of avatar nodes
Customize it like reckoning and betserk
minor gust
I don't quite get why the need to remove cleave but Slayer the WW spec and giving both Slayer and col an option for low target passive cleave and col being cleave spec is fine.
Y'all say it takes over you're rotation so much but like you still press all the same buttons of cleave Ms op in AOE so like
shadow ibex
I dont want to press the same buttons for 3 more years
Change for sake of changing up gameplay is fine
I want to see iteration
minor gust
Well removing cleave just makes that worse
shadow ibex
We dont have a gsme where we have no cleave
minor gust
But I agree I want meaningful gameplay change
shadow ibex
We dont know what would work
We can't tell the future it's all tuning anyway
I just want them to try new stuff I dont want to play this for 4 years
minor gust
We dont have a gsme where we have no cleave
Just don't talent cleave and hit dummies lmao
minor gust
It looks the same but -cleave
night niche
removing cleave won't make any change
minor gust
Collateral cleave gives buff that changes cleave to fatty cleave
shadow ibex
It looks the same but -cleave
Have you played it
We dont know how MN warrior even looks
minor gust
Have you played it
Yeah I played DF I remember season 2 and 3
night niche
he dosen't want to listen
shadow ibex
Until just now you thought dw application was bad without cleave
Like straight up dont know how its played in the past
Im just talking over ur head not at ghost ig
minor gust
Until just now you thought dw application was bad without cleave
When did I say this your schizophrenia is showing
I was comparing that DW is easily applied with cleave
Meanwhile rend is fucking target capped
At 5 applications
shadow ibex
Which it's not easy to maintain DW without cleave at 100%
We didn't use cleave at all in aoe in bfa or sl
And uptime was perfect
Cleave is new
minor gust
Congrats it was easy to maintain in the past without it. But since the DF era it has not been.
I'm recommending you to log off because you're bringing up midnight arms
shadow ibex
Theyve lengthen the duration of it
minor gust
shadow ibex
And added more cdr to bladestorm
minor gust
Arms in midnight could literally be the same or a completely different spec man no point talking about it or even thinking about it
Fighting ghosts
shadow ibex
Did you play warrior prior to sl btw
minor gust
Yes
On and off wow
I'm not arguing can you make DW work if you designed the spec to not have cleave...
Of course you can
shadow ibex
Arms in midnight could literally be the same or a completely different spec man ...
Thats the point so saying it plays like X without X makes no sense
minor gust
You can make anything work
shadow ibex
Its kinda implied
We have no idea what MN will play so when I say I want to see no cleave warrior
minor gust
Thats the point so saying it plays like X without X makes no sense
Brother your saying remove cleave will be a meaningful change when you know nothing about midnight it's the same thing...
shadow ibex
Its change for the sake of change
Because this is our content. How we play is our primary content.
2 more years of cleave op ms content is not appealing
night niche
if you are complaining that you want something new and want cleave to be removed then it won't really make any big difference. What you seem to want is a whole overhaul of the spec
shadow ibex
Its literally irrelevant what the numbers are. I know if you play no cleave now its bad. Im not saying its good im saying why do we have to do cleave MS op 3 more years
minor gust
Ight this has been fun to pass the time during work but this has hit peak re tardation
See you tomorrow when we do the same thing over again
shadow ibex
Lmao alright dw is hard
mint patio
Cleave schmeave…I want double bladestorm to be relevant again haha.
dim basalt
I want bladestorm to be removed entirely
dim basalt
Bladestorm is piss boring
gusty nymph
minor gust
Lmao alright dw is hard
As hard as my penis
spiral coral
As hard as my penis
minor gust
In my heart it does
minor gust
S3 has funnel too right
In my defense tho I was just assuming the extra reap casts made up for the WW casts boy was I wrong
pearl wind
wait salhadaar can be MS for the dragon heal? ok i now have justification to stay arms that fight
shadow ibex
I was told didn't work
But idk
Playing arms on that is the least fun thing possible. I saw a colossus log but I think you just play the rend slayer m+
Extendo sweeping
Idk if cleave is even needed tbh. Just padding platform adds when a frost dk will do it better but you have free points anyway since bb sucks for slayer
minor gust
The MS drag thing worked first week but was quickly fixed
shadow ibex
Try no bb get cleave and extend sweep and try arms
Thats what I did and lasted like 3 minutes before the invasive thoughts got real dark
shadow ibex
I don't think its playable on last 2 bosses until buff
Even on farm I dont see how
Not even numbers it just feels ass
Salabar nerfs are just gonna be breath nerfs in p1
latent moss
why bother playing arms
shadow ibex
Cuz thats what kills ppl in prog. Getting breath plus soak
latent moss
more effort for less
shadow ibex
So thats not gonna affect the arms situation
spiral coral
wait salhadaar can be MS for the dragon heal? ok i now have justification to sta...
your justification should only be “I enjoy playing this”
latent moss
legit no other justification
shadow ibex
why bother playing arms
latent moss
the last time this spec was real was 9.1
latent moss
df rework ruined arms
"rework"
introduction of awful talents
(tom, jugg)
(blunt instruments)
fossil root
spiral coral
fury is cheeks and needs major changes too they’re just tuned well so they stopped complaining about dead nodes and a class tree that’s dumb as shit
latent moss
honestly the only bad part about fury are capstones and that slayer is so rb heavy
bt>rb always imo
zenith dagger
just tune it so bt is still worth hitting when it has high crit and fury is good
latent moss
move interactions to bt
zenith dagger
and make thunderous roar not dog or just like get rid of it idk
latent moss
honestly the only bad part about fury are capstones and that slayer is so rb hea...
and cds
there are a lot of bad parts ngl
about fury
mainly cds ngl
latent moss
imgur copy paste
zenith dagger
i like fury how it is, im usually an arms preferer but fury is so fun this season
if they dont bake in tier set i will cry
minor gust
Fury is fun yeah and not because it's strong. But it does have it's issues
zenith dagger
i mean sure but i dont think it necessarily needs a whole ass rework
im so desperate for an arms refresh
zenith dagger
every time arms gets more changes "surely it cant get worse"
minor gust
Sos WW moment
shadow ibex
df rework ruined arms
Rework that introduced spiteful
dry frost
Static CD enjoyer
latent moss
Ngl I’m just wish we had no anger management builds
same
shadow ibex
I would love anyone at blizzard to justify how am is a choice node
latent moss
fuck am
shadow ibex
We have not not taken AM ever
Anytime its avaliable
With 3 choice talent trees anything next to AM was dead
Anything on am choice node is dead now
minor gust
If spiteful wasn't hot useless garbage we might have ac actual choice with AM
dry frost
Test of might with spiteful serenity could be kinda fun
shadow ibex
Problem is you don't gain much
Spiteful and AM is just flawed node. Both increase uptime
One big tom < many more frequent normal Toms
Not even touching on how many free attacks the specs use
dry frost
True
Its not like we can even spend all our rage
Especially considering IP doesn’t count
shadow ibex
Yea it's all fucked
dry frost
I was an IP ToM enjoyer. That’s what got me into arms. Now I suffer every day I log on
shadow ibex
Even if you wanted to play spiteful to make a big tom, you're gonna leave cs windows with a ton of rage
All that value on the table just wasted
dry frost
The only thing that keeps me maining arms is the copium that it will all be fixed
shadow ibex
We need AM so pvp arms isnt kite to death
Can't bladestorm roots if your BS is like natty 90seconds
shadow ibex
Nah bs is huge in pvp sadly
Let's you keep bursting outside of dstance
Can't kidney me and punish me because im immune
dry frost
The only 3 times I’ve PvPd I got rolled so hard I vowed to never step foot there lest my mental be shattered
shadow ibex
Its p fun tbh we are privileged
Arms + healer is always good enough
Maybe not meta but never complete shit. Have the tools to deal with everything including immunities just gotta grind
haughty copper
The only 3 times I’ve PvPd I got rolled so hard I vowed to never step foot there...
I tried healing my first rated on my pally yesterday. I’ve never been treated like such crap in my life.
ebon hollow
is there a way to sim soleah trinket on different stats in 1 sim? or do i just need to sim multiple times for it and compare
sage badge
is there a way to sim soleah trinket on different stats in 1 sim? or do i just n...
Can try this in overrides/advanced sim
shadowlands.soleahs_secret_technique_type=haste
Replace haste with mastery,crit,versatility
For example, paste your simc input in advanced sim in raidbots, then at the end of it can do copy="mastery" followed by shadowlands.soleahs_secret_technique_type=mastery
Should work, I think.
zenith dagger
arms rework will be real in...
odd oasis
I know its just because all the good people are playing fury rn, but just pugged my way to number 1 Arms NA
green geode
💪
halcyon valve
Huge
last saddle
idk why DH gets a ranged spec next tier and warrior doesnt
let us throw axes
they can just remove arms
weak rain
no, pls no
weak rain
no tunning continues 
grave mulch
^