arms

[smoky kayak]

we just started doing higher + levels

[shadow ibex]

of target count niches being relevant

[smoky kayak]

you're really running away with a point that was never made lol

[shadow ibex]

i just dont think you can have the two

someones lying some where if they really think these different caps are relevant

at any key level they arent

[olive nest]

Well it gets to a point where living is the problem right

And then if certain classes can kill everything at once because they’re uncapped

That’s better

[smoky kayak]

Well yeah, speed and survivability are the two main factors in scaling M+

[olive nest]

You don’t need to live 20 targets if you can kill all 20 at the same time within a cc chain window

[smoky kayak]

being able to live through incoming damage and killing fast enough to beat the timer, which as you point out sometimes go hand in hand when killing faster means less damage taken (as well as being able to double up the value of cooldowns by pulling larger)

Frankly that's the biggest problem with M+ is that its so easy to pull big in the first place

and I know why people like it cause bigger number = more dopamine, but if they would solve that problem, it would take care of most target cap related complaints automatically

They've kind of tried to a few times, by adding more LTs, more stop requirements, chain casting, etc, but none of its really took

and players hate feeling like they're being slowed down, even if it's for their own good or the good of the game entire

[shadow ibex]

its a timed game mode and blizzard has reduced the amount of mechanics to make it easier with lots of trash that only melee the tanks filled in with packs so of course pulls are larger

[minor gust]

This season kinda showed the smaller pulls gameplay could of worked

[shadow ibex]

this isn't a player problem

[minor gust]

just poor balancing in the previous seasosn

[shadow ibex]

dungeosn are designed for massive pulls except where they aren't because it has back to back mini bosses

[olive nest]

People enjoy pulling 15-20 mobs and watching numbers fly over the screen!
Plain and simple.
Blizzard should stop fighting it in my opinion

[shadow ibex]

how are they fighting it when they make the content where it is possible

[fair siren]

this sounds like it doesnt apply to the majority. ive seen good feedback for this season compared to others m+ wise for the avg joe

[olive nest]

They introduce ways to prevent it as arch mentioned above

[shadow ibex]

but they've still filled them with trash mobs to pad pull size

[minor gust]

weve had one of the best balanced M+ seasons of all time were gonna be spoiled going into next tier if its not the same

[fair siren]

enter dawnbreaker

cant believe people voted for that

[shadow ibex]

i dont think anyone would disagree with that

i think its one of the most popular seasons

[olive nest]

Really just to beat a dead horse they just need to make the capped classes be the best at their capped number whatever it may be

They don’t do that and that is entirely the problem

[shadow ibex]

its a very accessible season

[fair siren]

i think blizz is incapable of balancing for everyone PLUS the people who do 17-19 keys. outside of that make a team for MDI and compete. it seems mdi is always about execution since its usually meta only

[smoky kayak]

again, all that does is inflate the relative + level lol

pulls were already large before that

idk why you're acting as though SL and DF pulls weren't just as massive

[sour forge]

AA my beloved

[smoky kayak]

ofc they're not, they're fundamentally different experiences

I'd go so far as to say that it's not possible to satisfactorily balance them for everyone (not to mention the fact that there are so many varied specs in the first place), but I don't think it's ever really been the goal either

problem is that some people want it to be, despite knowing it never will

[olive nest]

Imagine a season where it was impossible to pull more than 8 mobs

All of sudden nobody cares about the uncapped specs

[smoky kayak]

I mean I don't think it should be impossible, but yes if Blizz did manage to lower the typical pull count to a more sane number, it would solve a lot of problems - not just with balance

[fair siren]

yeah thats where im at too. i dont think its IMPOSSIBLE but i think they've made the correct assumption/assessment that it isnt worth the investment based on this current seasons success at least

[olive nest]

Not impossible that’s fair but exceptionally difficult to do sure

[smoky kayak]

I'd still go with impossible, but we can at least agree to impractical then

[shadow ibex]

its impossible because you have sch a wide variety of players doing it

some players just do +3s and are cool with that

[rare kite]

idk how you do that. like there are dungeons where you can't pull big i suppose, like spires of ascension in slands

[shadow ibex]

if you could only do 5-8 mob pulls in a +3 and 5-8 target pulls in a +14 m+ would probably be really bad

[olive nest]

Spires couldn’t really be pulled that big for 99.9% of the player base that couldn’t coordinate and I personally didn’t find an issue with that

[teal fossil]

spires of ascension?

Yeah that shit was hard

[shadow ibex]

dungeon variety is probably the best answer

[rare kite]

yeah that's what i'm saying. you would need to design dungeons like spires if you want small pulls. but spires was also a really ass dungeon

[shadow ibex]

honestly as long as players are having fun maybe there' some world where weird aoe st builds are really good

doesnt matter what we play long as content is fun

[olive nest]

Players just want to be successful

[shadow ibex]

if you had 8 dungeons and every one played different with pull counts but didnt feel like slog one way or other then that's best world they can do really

but then you gotta really really tailor those dungeons

[smoky kayak]

yes that was the point being made - you can't balance +3 and +30, especially across so many varied specs

[wide pebble]

Balancing perfectly for sustained AOE content is going to be impossible when classes are tuned for raid.

Just is what it is.

[smoky kayak]

until some spec doesn't get invited to ABC because its a heavy AoE dungeon

[teal fossil]

You can add tuning levers

[smoky kayak]

yeah cause there's not enough of those already

[shadow ibex]

ideally that's where hero specs come in i guess

[teal fossil]

I think blizz is doing a good job with the dk reqork as far as I understand

[dim basalt]

Are classes tuned for raid though

[smoky kayak]

I mean that's already where hero specs come in, but it also means we're not talking about balancing 38 specs anymore... now it's more like 76 subspecs

[olive nest]

18% raid buff
40% aoe buff in M+

Lmao

Please don’t

[teal fossil]

I would say raid balance is tighter than m+ balance

All things considered

[dim basalt]

It is, but they definitely dont only balance around raid

[wide pebble]

I’d say so, when you look at those weekly charts, 25+ dps specs are all tuned within a few % of eachother. That’s pretty damn good

[fair siren]

it could be done blizz would just have to invest heavily into a m+ team. thats why i say its not impossible. the easiest method would be after a certain keystone resilient level you get preset gear like mdi but in live. you pre set it up and everytime you enter a key that meets the req it auto puts you in that gear. that way they can balance that part of the game seperately from the rest of the game but it would cost them a lot of $$ to implement that

[smoky kayak]

ofc it is, since there's a lot more multitarget in M+

[olive nest]

Raid balance has been exceptionally well this whole expact really

[smoky kayak]

well what you're suggesting isn't really balancing, it's completely changing the nature of the system

and they're quite simply not going to do that

[olive nest]

They tone down the outliers and have all of us within a few % of each other

[smoky kayak]

invalidating player gear progression by giving you tournament style gear sets for M+ is simply not going to happen - full stop

[fair siren]

correct its too expensive

[smoky kayak]

no, it's just completely antithetical to their design intent

[olive nest]

Gear progression is very important

[smoky kayak]

has nothing to do with the amount of work

[olive nest]

It’s the primary drive for most people playing this game

[wide pebble]

I think that putting the same emphasis on forming a group for m+ the same way you join a guild for raid would alleviate a lot of the issues seen by “non-meta” specs. The problem lies in the fact that people want m+ to be grab-and-go content.

[smoky kayak]

it's quite simply not something they want to do

[fair siren]

you would be getting better gear and it would go up in power as you progress resilient keys

[smoky kayak]

nor, arguably, would most players want it either

[midnight flicker]

the whole idea of MMO is grind gear

[fair siren]

where is the grind gone

[smoky kayak]

you may get more powerful, but you're still invalidating player agency

[dim basalt]

Cant generalize that

[smoky kayak]

not to mention you're fundamentally separating game types, which is another thing blizz doesn't want

[olive nest]

You’re absolutely correct I want M+ to be largely uncoordinated content that doesn’t require me to be locked into a weekly schedule with 5 other players

[smoky kayak]

having overlap between game mods is a good thing

[olive nest]

I already do that for raid

[smoky kayak]

encouraging people to engage in more than just their chosen game mode is a good thing

even if players hate eating their veggies

[midnight flicker]

its a massive aspect since the dawn of time of mmo's tho, like a core thing, take away that exitement and its not the same anymore

[rare kite]

i know it's not completely the same, but they invalidated progression this current season by giving us the turbo boost. which i really do not hope return, but it probably will

[fair siren]

its a game mode for the .1% of players. thats why its not realistic but its not impossible to implement. they arent the gear chasing players they are the do the hardest content players. thats like saying limit/echo RWF for gear upgrades

[dim basalt]

No, that view is just not up-to-date. Take FF14 and GW2 for example

[smoky kayak]

nobody said it was impossible

[dim basalt]

And even in WoW gear only matters a lot if youre going for world first

[smoky kayak]

I quite specifclaly said blizz doesnt' want that

they're simply not going to do it - full stop

[dim basalt]

Specifically mythic gear is also timegated as hell, theres no grinding

[wide pebble]

100%, but in a game where “your network is your net worth”, it’s not unfair to ask that you coordinate socially in a similar fashion to push high end content. Imagine pugging CE. You basically can’t do it, period.

[fair siren]

i mean it was said to be impossible by 3 of the 5 people in the convo

[olive nest]

I think it’s fair to say people enjoy grinds it’s kind of a staple of MMOs

[fair siren]

i didnt use it even tho its not realistic because it could happen. blizz just wouldnt invest the money. my original point

[olive nest]

Especially player power grinds

[dim basalt]

No doubt

But its definitely not anywhere near where it used to be

[smoky kayak]

said it was impossible to balance the 38 different specs across both low and high M+
you're not talking about balancing though, you're talking about making a series of huge sweeping changes

and even with preset gear, you'd still have a gap between low and high M+ performance

[fair siren]

im talking about balancing it with a dedicated m+ team for the top end players

[rare kite]

archi do you think turbo boost is coming back next season?

[smoky kayak]

probably in some form

[olive nest]

People pug low end title range and I think that’s great personally

[smoky kayak]

they hinted at it already in interviews

[rare kite]

ughh

[olive nest]

I like turbo boost, it sparked my drive to log in again for a few weeks was a nice short and sweet dopamine rush

[wide pebble]

Yeah, I think that’s a good thing, as well. I’m just advocating for why there’s always going to be significant class disparity in the game mode. It’s because they’re tuning for raid, and m+ is inherently different combat

[dim basalt]

Turbo was actually kinda neat yeah

[shadow ibex]

i just had to farm m+ a lot again for upgrade crest

[dim basalt]

But M+ as the only real source of crests sucks

[shadow ibex]

idk if it was good or bad really i was raid logging atp

[wide pebble]

But if you have a group, then it doesn’t matter if you aren’t playing balance Druid. Because you can still accomplish the highest goals

[rare kite]

i hated it. i was like "ok i'm fully geared and can now bingchill raidlog" and then BAM

[olive nest]

I guess it depends on the player right

[shadow ibex]

we were on mugzee when it dropped

[olive nest]

I’m a wow fiend so I enjoy having reasons to log in

[shadow ibex]

so we could buy bis and stuff

[sour forge]

And for m+ players having access to only 1 myth piece a week sucks

[dim basalt]

I mean if you didnt upgrade the lower tier crests you could trade a lot of them in and be almost done right away

[wide pebble]

You can check out any time you’d like, but you can never [raidlog]

[dim basalt]

yuuuup

[rare kite]

ofcourse you can raidlog

[wide pebble]

It’s a lyric lol. It wasn’t meant to be truth

[rare kite]

oh idk the lyric xD

[olive nest]

How do you give more than one mythic ilvl piece a week from M+?

[wide pebble]

Hotel California

[minor gust]

craft

[rare kite]

i only know 1 line from hotel california hahah

[dim basalt]

I suppose vault gives 2 M+ items but thats just gonna inflate gear

And you will almost never take the raid options

At least not in the beginning

[lean geode]

why you gotta call me out like this

[olive nest]

You can’t have infinitely farmable myth track gear when raid bosses are once a week

[shadow ibex]

I think it was a good way to nerf the raid really

Turbo I mean

[olive nest]

So cook up an idea that sounds reasonably balanced

I haven’t thought of one personally

[minor gust]

gear is fine you should be rewarded for doing all content. If you only M+ obviously you should be behind ppl who raid and M+

[shadow ibex]

More ilvl is more fun than a raid buff imo

[wide pebble]

It was a great way to nerf the raid instead of gutting the mechanics

Because at the same time it elongated the m+ push

[sour forge]

Ya not sure how you’d balance that. But I legit can’t myth raid, can’t commit to a schedule 2-3 nights a week

[dim basalt]

Well it kinda did gut mechanics as well

On Sprocket you dont get to the harder parts at all

[shadow ibex]

No more gally second add set

[rare kite]

i'd rather them just nerf the raid honestly. but i know that's not a popular opinion

[olive nest]

I mean the best I got is you can loot each dungeon once a week at myth track ilvl because there’s 8 dungeons and also 8 bosses

[dim basalt]

Gally adds are whatever tho

[smoky kayak]

they did that too lol

[rare kite]

truu lol

[wide pebble]

Oh it 100% did hahaha, but it did it by blasting past phases or ending fights earlier instead of nerfing damage instances or the actual presence of the mechanics

[olive nest]

The problem with this is you split the loot amongst 5 people in one and 20 in the other

[dim basalt]

But I love how they still havent fixed Mugzee

[sour forge]

That’s pretty good tbh, 2/5 chance to receive loot per dungeon.

[rare kite]

i've never been a fan of "wait x amount of time" and then you suddenly do more damage. tho i suppose you can make the same argument "just wait x amount of time for the nerfs" but they nerf anyway

[steep osprey]

Wouldn’t one of ways of stopping big m+ pulls be making it harder to tank more than 8 or so mobs

[sour forge]

Only for a few slots tbf. But I see your point

[olive nest]

And also the raiders still have a massive gearing advantage so you just circle back to having the same complaint really

[steep osprey]

If you pull a 9th mob

The tank dies

[olive nest]

M+ only players still behind

[steep osprey]

[sour forge]

I’m fine with being behind

[smoky kayak]

I kinda of agree, but at the same time I think making it predictable via the renown track has some distinct advantages over just waiting for a surprise nerf that may or may not ever come

[sour forge]

It just feels bad being time gated so hard by myth pieces

[rare kite]

especially if i'm stuck at a boss and we know we can kill it if we play more cleanly. but nahh next week we do 3% more damage

[steep osprey]

Why don’t they make it harder to pull large by making mobs hit tanks harder to the point they can’t tank without dying immediately

[olive nest]

In my experience people played worse knowing they had the 3% buff today

It made them try less

Like bro we were pushing this boss faster without the 3%

[smoky kayak]

they kinda did try that, but then you get into issues of tank/healer balance lol

[olive nest]

What are you guys doing

Lmao

[lean geode]

I like the 3% buff bc it means I can get a screenshot of me at rank 2 allstars bc my logs are being compared to earlier ones

[dim basalt]

Because then even less people will play tanks

And theyre rare as is

[olive nest]

LOL real based

[minor gust]

NA advantage goes hard

[lean geode]

I'm just better than all the EU players 💅

[steep osprey]

We need dungeons that have packs far away from each other or something

[rare kite]

yeah i get the argument for having the raidbuff. it makes reclearing significantly less painful as well, but man does it piss me off if we're using everything we can on a boss and it's killable. we barely fail and then next week we do 3% more damage and suddenly it's no problem

[shadow ibex]

That's worst part yea

[smoky kayak]

I get that, but it's also kind of the point

you can plan for and around it, depending on your particular performance

[olive nest]

I like the raid buffs, personally I hope it stays

[smoky kayak]

also vantus rune kind of plays into that as well, cause that next week you basically get a "free" vantus

[dim basalt]

I wouldnt mind if they postponed the raid buffs a bit though

[steep osprey]

If this slowing down the key thing isn’t working, why not just revert caps, there’s no reason fury should be 5 anymore

[dim basalt]

Renown 4 for the first one is really early

[smoky kayak]

it exacerbates the problem - now there's no reason not to constantly pull more bigger faster

[smoky kayak]

4 weeks ain't that early

[compact geyser]

ive been swapping between arms and fury in raid. so this has to be the unluckiest vault ever

[steep osprey]

It doesn’t matter how good something is for the game, if it slows down the player; it’s moot

[dim basalt]

Well its 3 because you start at 1

But I do think its early

5 or 6 would be better imo

[steep osprey]

Yeah but isn’t that already the case

People pull large

They don’t care

I like the idea of slowing it down but the majority of people aren’t going to go for it

[shadow ibex]

You can't if you also want to make stuff for people who only do 3s and 5s

There's no progression then

Pull same target counts at a 15 as a 5?

[rare kite]

yeahh. some people like it some don't. it has its merits on bosses that aren't fun and it invalidates dps checks on some bosses that previously had them making them less fun(imo), i don't think they can make a raidbuff have only pros and no cons tho. i suppose there is a solution, if i join a high ranking guild i would never experience the raidbuff during prog

[olive nest]

HoC is best in slot for both

Lock and stalk can be great for both depending on your other gear (stats)

[proven gorge]

hey guys, is Demolish the hardest hitting spell in the game? for all classes? or someone else can di a higher crit in 1 single hit?

[shadow ibex]

I'm pretty sure it's highest ap% yea

[minor gust]

Enhance and dev can do bigger crits

[smoky kayak]

you can definitely build higher individual hits

but as far as raw AP% per spell goes, it's definitely one of the highest

[shadow ibex]

Cleave can be higher

[proven gorge]

oh yeah dev breath is nuts, but ench? I have always felt like hes like fury, lots of small hits

[steep osprey]

Me when I engulf

[rare kite]

boomie on ptr has by far the biggest crit. not even close either

[minor gust]

Engulf moment

[steep osprey]

And no, enhance isn’t even close to devastation evoker lol, what are you talking about @minor gust

This isn’t s1
Enhance

[shadow ibex]

Petition to change colossus tier to ms dmg not demo

Actually both

[steep osprey]

I’d say arms has bigger individual hits than enhance

[dim basalt]

For how much can dev crit atm?

[minor gust]

Idk or care about the dumb shaman class I just remember totemic did some big crits

[steep osprey]

My engulfs crit 20m

[dim basalt]

Jesus christ

[steep osprey]

And that’s not all

There’s another hit that hits 10m too

So it’s 30m together

I usually pull
Aggro on pulls

But for a second

[shadow ibex]

Easy ms next tier

[steep osprey]

Yeah that was last season

[olive nest]

Bleeds doing morbillion damage next tier

Let’s gooo

[shadow ibex]

I just want colossus tier man

[minor gust]

wooooo boring passive dmg wooooooo

[olive nest]

I always seem to be one of the mechanic slaves so I like my passive damage

[steep osprey]

The real ones played in bfa

With giga bleed

[minor gust]

im sorry for your loss

[coral crescent]

I don't have many issues with the tier set, but idk. bleeds doesn't seem to fit with colossus despite it being in the hero tree and such

[shadow ibex]

I just wanna play it on nexus king

[olive nest]

“It means they think you’re reliable”

[coral crescent]

just thematically when i think of a hulking colossus i don't think "bleed damage"

[minor gust]

can think of it you crush them with a hammer and cause internal bleeding I guess

[rare kite]

mechanic slave as warrior? that's rough buddy

[smoky kayak]

Conceptually, I think the name Slayer makes me think of bleeds more, but the concept of "big hit leaves enemy hemorrhaging" does make a certain amount of sense

[olive nest]

When a melee needs to do something yeah usually

[shadow ibex]

I think the biggest problem with it is that it's pretty much perma uptime if anything

Why not just passive atp

[smoky kayak]

make what passive?

[steep osprey]

It’s not perma

It was like 67% uptime for me even though I was spamming Ms

[rare kite]

makes more sense for a non uptime melee to do it. idk like dh(idk if they play meta extend) or windwalker

[smoky kayak]

oh the bleed buff from the tier?

[minor gust]

its close but yeah not perma def affects your gameplay if its not up

[olive nest]

You wind up your giant weapon to precisely strike your target 3 times and you expect them not to bleed from it??

Come on now

[shadow ibex]

Delaying sks for it

Oh lord

[smoky kayak]

yeah it's definitely not perma, 90% seems to be the high end, but I think in a real encounter you're much more likely to have ~60-80%

not enough that you need to delay SkS, but enough that you care about pressing MS a lot

[stable fiber]

ive seen some black arrows hit hard as shit

[steep osprey]

I don’t get this hatred for bleeds, they make complete sense. You get bonk so hard you start bleeding

[olive nest]

Tell me about it

[smoky kayak]

and that's the reason why it's not passive - to encourage that you keep pressing MS, even in multitarget

[minor gust]

sims will tell us but I believe if running AB in keys prio MS over cleave if the buff isnt active and your doing a big pull

[smoky kayak]

generally yes, though any crit can activate it so it has a pretty good chance of triggering in multitarget

plus its a buff on you not a debuff on the enemy, so you only need a single crit to activate it

[steep osprey]

Can they fix unhinged munching Ms crits from set and not cleaving then

[smoky kayak]

they probably could but it doesn't really matter since your sweep eats both stacks anyway

[minor gust]

that was fixed

last I tested it

[steep osprey]

It does not from my last testing

[smoky kayak]

oh was it? I didn't check

[minor gust]

yee

[smoky kayak]

well that's nice

[steep osprey]

Yeah, I was surprised no one knew when I tested

[minor gust]

yeah was a good fix

[smoky kayak]

it was a small build, didn't really spend much time on it

[minor gust]

was also in critcakes video so coincidence I think not

[steep osprey]

Now they have to fix unhinged

[smoky kayak]

that's not going to happen

[dim basalt]

Whats the issue with unhinged?

[smoky kayak]

they've been very adamant that they do not want unhinged to cleave

[dim basalt]

Oh that

[minor gust]

just get an EB proc and spend both MS crits before ravager hits ms 🙂

[steep osprey]

I don’t care about that, I’m talking about the munching

[smoky kayak]

as far as Unhinged not eating a stack, idk I mean... you are still getting a crit out of it

[steep osprey]

The main issue is only during Sweep

[minor gust]

your just losing 1 MS crit which isnt that big of a deal

[smoky kayak]

yup

[shadow ibex]

Not end of world I guess

Just make cs and wb grant it

[minor gust]

If I had to choose the sweep munch or ravager munch id take the sweep fix any day

[steep osprey]

Yeah

[smoky kayak]

I included it in my feedback a couple weeks ago, but the issue is that it's gameable either way, so I don't think it really matters how it ends up working

and as pointed out, the difference is not even "losing" one crit, you're losing one *guaranteed" crit, on a spec that already stacks crit

so in reality, you're losing like... half a crit, which just doesn't really add up to anything meaningful

[minor gust]

its a nice 2 stacks of CM lost but who cares

[steep osprey]

The amount of demolish uses I’m getting is crazy

On ptr

[teal fossil]

Do we know if we running extended sweep

Over collar

Collat

[minor gust]

I didnt like it

Collateral is just such good dmg

[teal fossil]

Idk if I can take anymore of aligning collat with other shit

[shadow ibex]

If using arterial i guess u would?

[steep osprey]

Is ww better then cleave in pure 2T

[minor gust]

Even still Cleave is a lot of your dmg

[shadow ibex]

No fob is amazing

[steep osprey]

Isn’t cleave worse on 2 target

It doesn’t activate CM until 3, right?

[shadow ibex]

Yea

[minor gust]

well yeah but your not taking cleave on pure 2T

[teal fossil]

Ww too piss weak I think

[shadow ibex]

It's worse than OP

[steep osprey]

Is it though

Ww

[shadow ibex]

Idt you take cleave anywhere it's only 2t

[steep osprey]

I’m specifically talking about 2 targets

[olive nest]

I’d like a extended sweep season

Aligning collateral all the time is kinda getting stale

[shadow ibex]

Tom season ofc

[steep osprey]

Tom??

[shadow ibex]

So many changes otw

[teal fossil]

Yeah hekili also doesn’t like collat

[olive nest]

Oh god imagine ToM in M+

[minor gust]

We shall see but I doubt we drop collateral ever until it gets nerfed

[olive nest]

Lmao

[teal fossil]

So I won’t use it

[minor gust]

Collateral is very good in a key setting especially with colossus

[rare kite]

prob not better than collat. but atleast it is better than this season coz of new tierset making demolish better

more ss more demolish

[olive nest]

Yeah it’s hard to beat a giant gorillion cleave setup on next mega pull

It’s almost invaluable in comparison

[wide pebble]

It’s a lot of fun

[steep osprey]

It’s annoying

[minor gust]

problem is you dont really need that much more demolish in keys especially in aoe

or your gonna start misaligning things heavily

[shadow ibex]

I wish it had some ms dmg cuz we gonna be critting so much next tier gear anyway

[steep osprey]

MS does not need more buffs

It’s crazy

[shadow ibex]

There is never enough

9 mil crits

[olive nest]

Man Yall wildin

Bring back dreadnaut!

[steep osprey]

[olive nest]

[dim basalt]

I wouldnt mind a 20% ms buff

ngl

[shadow ibex]

Warbringer?

[olive nest]

Yes

[regal wharf]

i will say

i think cleave is such a fun button to press

[lethal stream]

warrior dead or good for S3?

[shadow ibex]

No notes yet

Who knows

[minor gust]

ask again when S3 is out

[shadow ibex]

A little over a month until raid

[minor gust]

1 or 2 ptr builds left before they prob only do tuning passes

[shadow ibex]

Surely next week

Dps war notes

[minor gust]

[regal wharf]

so is unholy dk just bricked?

[dim basalt]

inb4 only a nerf to Fury

[regal wharf]

i havent heard a single positive change they made to it

[minor gust]

ask again in S3

[shadow ibex]

Frost had a Rollercoaster

But also just made you perma lock in obliterate with breath cuz it's KM not runic power spent

Already does that now tho?

[steep osprey]

I honestly think that makes the spec better overall idk and yes

[shadow ibex]

Play oblit and breath I mean

[steep osprey]

We always locked in those

[shadow ibex]

So idk wtf they changed besides made rime good

[steep osprey]

I think frost is so much better Than it was before

[minor gust]

I played it on ptr after the recent breath change

[shadow ibex]

Yea

[minor gust]

its enjoyable

[shadow ibex]

Rime is like OP now

Instead of OP from s1 DF

[minor gust]

being 1:30 is nice as well

[shadow ibex]

Which is good

Also empower is off the gcd which is insane

I didn't think they would do that for dps again

[steep osprey]

Time pog, new Frostbane talent that basically works like an aoe shattering blade instead of tabbing targets to use 5 razorice

[olive nest]

I want to be an 8 minute class

[shadow ibex]

Yea but it hits for like negative dam

[olive nest]

Just nuke the boss for 20 seconds and then go fill up my cup and floor pov

[shadow ibex]

Idk what that tooltip is

[steep osprey]

It works completely different and it actually makes a lot more sense to be off gcd the way it works

[regal wharf]

so you mean surrender to madness

[minor gust]

then play dev then you peak on pull and then the rest of the fight is just holding that peak

[steep osprey]

What? Lol

It hits for a lot

[shadow ibex]

I mean it's just IP no?

[steep osprey]

It’s always my top damaging ability

[shadow ibex]

Generate a tact charge is a lot like KM imo

[olive nest]

Sorry guys I used my 30 minute cooldown on the last boss

[shadow ibex]

Ip much shorter cd

[steep osprey]

True but the CD of empower gets reduced by rime

[shadow ibex]

But I'm just saying it's blizzard endorsed off gcd play for melee dps

I didnt think they would do that

[steep osprey]

True

[shadow ibex]

Gives me hope

[steep osprey]

Also they completely remove oblit cleave

Which is better for balance

But frost scythe new animation looks like shit

[smoky kayak]

well no again it's not lost

you still get the hit, that's at least 1 stack

and you also still have a fairly decent chance to crit naturally on that hit

so realistically you're losing like half a crit/half a stack

[shadow ibex]

I like oblit cleave cuz I like MS cleave

[smoky kayak]

you don't really need to; unless it's going to cause you to hit noticeably more targets, you don't ever want to delay Collateral more than 1-2 GCDs

[shadow ibex]

Hitting cpl mil cleave on 3 target

[smoky kayak]

Delaying Collateral for a 30% damage bonus from Warbreaker or w/e is worse than losing even a single unbuffed Cleave

again, unless we're talking about pulling in a fresh pack or something, though in that case you probably want to save your Cleave anyway

[olive nest]

Is there a target count for this condition?

I feel like not cleaving 3 targets left in a pull and carrying that collateral to the next pack is probably better

[smoky kayak]

I did the math awhile back, but not really - generally speaking you don't want to lose casts of Cleave

[smoky kayak]

I specifically addressed that twice already lol

but that's not delaying for a cd either

[olive nest]

I understand, it just seems weird that this is the case

But math is math I guess

[olive nest]

Ahh yes, I glanced over this message

[smoky kayak]

as strong as Collateral is, it still only averages ~8-14 stacks, which means ~200-350% damage increase

increasing that by 30% is ~60-100% bonus

While pressing Cleave a second time is 100% more Cleave damage

that's the real basic version; obviously many more factors come into play, from how many targets you're hitting, what else they might be de/buffed with, how long the combat will last, and so on and so forth

but the general takeaway is that holding for more than a few seconds (the cost of 1 cleave) isn't likely to be worthwhile

[minor gust]

there aint no hard rules for it yeah really all experience and feel and when in doubt just send it

[smoky kayak]

there are a few cases, like holding for important targets, damage phases (e.g. Motherlode rock boss adds), or a pulling in more mobs, but those should be pretty obvious

for everything else, it's easier and more consistently better to just send

[olive nest]

Side note, having sweep demolish warbreaker for every add spawn on rock boss is pure dopamine

“Adds about to spawn”
“Don’t worry guys I got it”

[minor gust]

I think the only time I ever game collateral is with blademasters usually WB is 2-3 globals away from coming back when collateral is ready and when were about to go into another pack

[olive nest]

I need a Weakaura that will say Bing on the first swing, bang on the second, and boom on the third

[smoky kayak]

honestly wouldn't be that hard to make

but it should reverb and go b-b-b-b-b-boom for each target hit

[weak wave]

Yes please somebody make one! 😆

[minor gust]

just need metal pipes for the third hit

[jolly goblet]

in a trash pack, i just spam ms and cleave on cd? is there any prio?

[minor gust]

3T Cleave > MS > OP
2T MS > OP Cleave
1T MS > OP SLAM
EXE: MS > OP > Exe

[little ledge]

reviving my warrior after 3 years dumb question did they change IP so you cant cast it at full hp???

thats crazy if so i liked using the shield as a pre defensive

[weak wave]

No they didn't.

[little ledge]

hmm its not castable just playing around with a dummy for some reason so i thought they changed it that way

ah nvm when i updated my talent trees it was untalented by default but still on my bars i guess, kinda surprising since it was a good spammable defensive

[slow saddle]

Its shit

So dont take it

[olive nest]

Fueled by violence is just more consistant

Ip isn’t a large enough number to have any real value

Isn’t it like 350k or something? When we have 11m hp

[little ledge]

ah yeah thats tiny

[dim basalt]

kek

[latent lichen]

How is arms going into 11.2?

[minor gust]

will feel a lil bit better to play than 11.1

[olive nest]

Heroic gaming!?

[latent lichen]

I havent played it in 11.1. I am a prot main and I was looking into dpsing some. I havent dpsed in ages and arms was the first thing I was looking into

It looks like big numbers to scratch the monkey brain

[minor gust]

well MS and Demolish and Exe can make big numbers

[latent lichen]

Is it a hard spec to play decently? I dont think I will do more than AotC as dps

[minor gust]

Arms is easy to play yeah

[cunning jewel]

Fury is easier

[rare kite]

just send everything on cd. there's like some minmaxing at higher levels with things like collat but you lose more by overthinking and holding

[latent lichen]

I see fury boiled down to one button and your 2 CDs XD

[rare kite]

idk if i agree honestly. was definetely the case in most other recent expansions tho

[cunning jewel]

But yeah warrior in general is not hard like rogue for example

[latent lichen]

Do we run slayer or or colossus?

[cunning jewel]

Colossus on M+

slayer in raid

[latent lichen]

Is slayer bad in M+ or just not optimal and vice versa with colossus?

As a prot warrior, colossus button is the ultimate brain scratch so far

[cunning jewel]

Bladestorm feel bad imo at the moment

[latent lichen]

That is the best monkey brain ability so far

[olive nest]

I think it’s easier to get damage out of arms than it is fury

But I might be biased

[cunning jewel]

Yeah maybe you’re right

[olive nest]

Arms is pretty much just send all abilites on cooldown

And when more than one ability is available know witch one is more value so you send them in the correct order

[rare kite]

definetely is

[cunning jewel]

Feel bad yes maybe in top slayer will be ok but with big pulls you need colossus definitely

Top= theater of pain

[latent lichen]

Do you think colossus would be fine in heroic?

[atomic marlin]

Should I start practicing arms going in to S3? Any idea yet if Fury or Arms is gonna be the goto spec?

[minor gust]

just not optimal you can very much hold your own and do well in very high keys as Slayer

[rare kite]

for raid who knows. for m+ almost certainly arms

[latent moss]

raid most likely fury at current tuning which will most likely change and for m+ almost certainly arms cause its not hardcapped

[atomic marlin]

thanks yall

[narrow flax]

any other people who are experiencing that wow isn't opening?

uninstall and scan and repair also greyed out

[rare kite]

check processes

[stable fiber]

is this not just fury

[narrow flax]

it has 1 running

[rare kite]

then close that

[narrow flax]

i guess ill wait a bit

i did that before

i guess ill wait to see if it opens

otherwise ill restart pc

[olive nest]

Nah you gotta think about rage and Crit conditions and slaughtering strikes after BS etc

[stable fiber]

no you dont

what

big cope

[olive nest]

Yes you do

Go ahead and bloodthirst on cooldown champ

[viral locust]

just press what lights up man

[olive nest]

Get back to me

Weakauras play it for you that’s a fair argument

Kaching!

[viral locust]

just press what lights up

[swift crown]

If you're gonna say BT conditionals are some big brain delay CDs shit then Tactician delaying your Mortal Strike is gonna really blow your mind

[olive nest]

The guy asked what was easier to play

I simply gave my 2cents

[swift crown]

It's Fury, objectively

Cause ignoring all the stupid minigames it's really hard to do bad on Fury

By just mashing buttons

[viral locust]

you see pressing what lights up > worrying about correct rotation kekw (and my better kills private logged)

[stable fiber]

fury and arms are literally the same spec on ST

but fury and arms are not on AOE

[swift crown]

Arms punishes you slightly harder for not doing the SD thing correctly

But generally yea

[stable fiber]

fury is probably the second easiest spec on aoe

actually

probably easiest

nvm unholy exists

[viral locust]

bm hunter exists

wait is dk easier than bm? both have minimal buttons right

[stable fiber]

i think dk aoe is easier than bm

[viral locust]

tbf also MM 1 button rotation is insane DPS

[minor gust]

lots of specs are pretty simple these days

most of them you play one you played them all

[stable fiber]

MM plays like ranged fury

[olive nest]

Arms is harder in aoe spec yeah I agree with that

[olive nest]

Bro we’re the same rank smashing the glowy button lmao

[slow saddle]

Its all about at what % u expect to play

[olive nest]

Or did you just gloat that you’re 8 above me?

[stable fiber]

hes gloating

i think i could be r1

i havent killed coc, rik, stix or sprocket in like 3 months tho

[olive nest]

I cannot get a coc log for the life of me

I copy everybody’s timings to a T practically and I just get shit numbers

[stable fiber]

i got r1 coc then never killed it again

i gotta get a good gally parse

its my only non pink on mythic i think

yesterday was prime for it, but i went colossus which was just bad

[shadow ibex]

We don't milk gally cast so I resigned to my fate

One time we accidentally did and it was so cool

[olive nest]

We never delay cast either

I’m going to just send boss and accept my fate too

[viral locust]

we are not the same im 82 kek, i smash buttons that light up faster

[olive nest]

I was going to do that last kill but our Evoker was absent so I tried my luck

lol

[olive nest]

You sure do

[viral locust]

it wasn't a gloat btw I'm just a zugger smashing buttons, just showing the potential of smashing glowy shit

[olive nest]

Smashing glowy button works

Can confirm

Maybe I won’t get knocked off the platform on sprocket by a wrong color clown this rekill

[shadow ibex]

We never rekill that

We just 3 or 6 bosses

[olive nest]

We do all 8

[shadow ibex]

Idc tbh I'm so done this tier

[olive nest]

We do skip first and then clean up the rest with alts in

[shadow ibex]

I just want mount

And an eye for late heroic bosses next tier

[olive nest]

I landed eye in vault the same week as third buy

Felt good

You’ll get yours soon!

Surely!

[shadow ibex]

I'm not pressed about it either way

Just mount then I'm mega donr

[olive nest]

It’s going to go hard on 8 minute dimencius

Wait you said that days ago didn’t you

Kek

[shadow ibex]

Yea assuming don't get something better week 1

May as well take 1 for those fights

[spring ruin]

Friend saying Arms warrior is somehow next to Ret paladin in A tier for mythic plus because of some Musclebrah video. What say you who are on PTR playing arms?

And its less then a month to go so please no damage tuning coming response. Just need an overall idea

[dim basalt]

Musclebrah

[dire hinge]

Colossus will be good in dungeons but i know nothing about other specs

[dim basalt]

Dudes washed

[dire hinge]

Play what you enjoy

be good at it

[spring ruin]

Would anyone take an arms warrior over a ret pally for pugs ?

far as state of season 3 PTR

[shadow ibex]

Maybe we'll deal enough damage to make up for lack of utility

[minor gust]

if pugging is your biggest concern just wait and find out whats meta and swap to that

[olive nest]

People will generally prefer ret only because it’s very easy to perform on it and it also provides Brez and some utility

[rare kite]

in s3 atm probably yes

[olive nest]

At the end of the day it’ll be determined by damage

Does arms do more damage? Then that’s probably the pick

Etc

[shadow ibex]

We'll know when we see our notes

Surely

[little ledge]

btw i noticed my bladestorm comes off cd like 7 sec before avatar/colossus smash, i just hold it for those yeah?

or often its like 5-9 sec before colossus smash in general

also do we really overpower at full rage with opportunist instead of mortal striking? just going off wowhead priority

[olive nest]

When it’s that close you can hold it yeah

And yes you consume opportunist regardless of rage unless you already have 2x martial prowess stacks

In which case you would prefer to MS ^

[dim basalt]

TIL 6th highest / best tank in M+ is a brewmaster

[olive nest]

Read that statement aloud

[dim basalt]

Huh?

[olive nest]

6th highest out of six

[dim basalt]

Im talking rio

[olive nest]

Ahh makes more sense

[dim basalt]

I expected war to be there outside of vdh

But monk is wild

There are two warriors and two monks in the top 50 iirc

[rare kite]

holy moly

[swift crown]

Honestly solid changes

[little ledge]

is dungeonslice well supported for warrior sims or do you lads use different settings

it varies by class ik

[near radish]

if im crafting a 681 wep (arms new alt for me) is it stil better to go ascension + writhing to start?

[olive nest]

Generally I would sim

• 1T 5min Patchwerk
• 5T 1min Patchwerk

Use common sense to compare items and pick what you feel will suite your scenario the best

[halcyon valve]

Taking 7 minutes off the timer is peak

[candid pecan]

oh boi

????

725% huh

[viral locust]

surely typo it wasn't that bad was it?

guess the rest of it is nerf though reee

[halcyon valve]

Yeah but like the amount of power you got from the tier set was getting a bit silly

[lost flare]

Mystic Touch now increases Physical damage taken by 8% (was 5%)

kinda big

[halcyon valve]

Lmao ok

[candid pecan]

every week is just a dissapointment

[halcyon valve]

Always gonna invite monk+shaman to my keys then ig

[candid pecan]

WTF

[finite grotto]

I do not understand these notes

[candid pecan]

better hit that sweeping MS before ravager unhinged CONSUMES IT

[rare kite]

Lmao did not expect that colossus tier nerf

[finite grotto]

No hunter nerfs, massive frost DK buffs

Huh

[steep osprey]

Frost dk was trash for raid

[finite grotto]

Ah ok

[steep osprey]

And hunter was already nerfed last week

[candid pecan]

okay then, no1 test on warrior tomorrow

[finite grotto]

I’m m+ / PvP player

No raiding

[honest girder]

Who said they should stop? 😈

[finite grotto]

My hunter on ptr does 40-50% more sustained than my warrior on 5 targets as MM sent

[candid pecan]

yeah but its PTR, it wont go live like that

[finite grotto]

Yeah all good, I’m playing Warrior regardless

[candid pecan]

same here

[unreal mountain]

hahhaha they have no cluie about dps warrior right? we are in an absolute horrible state Damage, Talents and Utility and now they nerf the T set on ptr like wth is going on xD

[steep osprey]

This also isn’t the last tuning post ever

There will be plenty

[finite grotto]

😎👍

[steep osprey]

I wouldn’t worry about raid balance

But m+ is a lot worse in terms of balancing

[shy tide]

paying for prot warrior sins

it is what it is

[dreamy sandal]

Bruh, why did they add all the M+ trinkets except specifically the one I want to test

[candid pecan]

farm it from dungeon

queue up

[coral crescent]

the colossus tier set nerf is kinda w/e no? we'll have so much crit uptime will still be decent, right?

[minor gust]

wont change anything really for uptime

just one less guaranteed MS crit

[dreamy sandal]

yeah lol, but its just really weird

[fickle kiln]

man i swear even if blizz buffed Arms by 30% and sligthly adjusted the curve of MM hunters penis to the right by 3%, this disc would still doom that warrior is dead and hunter is too op

[regal dragon]

we are dead tho

[fickle kiln]

i'm pretty sure we are far from it

we could be goated and still not get invited to M+

[rare kite]

2 with ss. Funny they fixed it only to nerf tier after

[minor gust]

it doesnt really matter to much

[candid pecan]

now that I think about it

they took the time to fix it, so a sweeping MS does not consume both stacks

and now its only 1 stack

[little ledge]

i mean its decent invites rn with phys comps

better than in a while

[rare kite]

Ye im just being pedantic

[fickle kiln]

that is true yeah

[olive nest]

Physical comp going hard next tier

BRM/rsham/war/outlaw/feral

Could do bear/ww also

Prot war too since that’s like the strongest ptr tank atm

[bronze shuttle]

when do I send best-in-slots after my house of cards? Is it with my next colossus smash?

[olive nest]

Yes

[gusty nymph]

Medium dps, low utility! That is our brand!!!!!!

[finite grotto]

I’m still excited to play Warrior! 😎

[gusty nymph]

As you should! I will enjoy as well, even it is comparatively harder to get into m+ 🥹

[warm fog]

It will be prot and WW

[gusty nymph]

Yes. But we will be great next expac 🤪

[little ledge]

no shot ww is absolutely ass in keys next patch

its either mw or brew

[hexed snow]

725%????

https://tenor.com/view/f-gif-16992623890208731454

[candid pecan]

its bugged, the tier set, 100% crit chance for 14 seconds

not 1 stack

[oak kite]

it says this on patch notes:
Slayer
Manaforge Omega 2-set bonus – Execute damage increased by 10% (was 20%).

then on disc updates channel it says
Slayer 2p - Execute damage buffed by 10% (was 20%).

is not this a nerf or am i still sleeping? like it was 20 percent damage increase now it is 10?

[fresh spire]

same thing worded differently

[hexed snow]

Sry but again

725% buff

[fresh spire]

thane set bonus before was like .4%

it needed that buff

:kekw

[hexed snow]

Ahahhahaha

I'm going to bed with that number in my head

[latent moss]

ye it was

still not very good

[hexed snow]

Exec nerfed by 10% in set

But why

[oak kite]

so that we have another season of 76726473264 ret pallys in another season -.-

[atomic marlin]

potentially stupid question but if I sweeping strikes and then cleave, does cleave hit twice?

it doesnt, right

ignore that reading the ability explains the ability xdd

[oak kite]

if you are talented into slam cleave, the slam should hit twice. cleave itself does not as it is not a single target attack.

i mean not twice but two targets.

[earnest imp]

Is the ptr arms build the same as current?

[atomic marlin]

thanks my reading comprehension skills arent the best sometimes

legit missed the single target part of sweeping strikes until i re-read it ;-;

[shadow ibex]

Frost dk tier

[near radish]

nerf a little annoying but offset by monk changes for phys comp no?

[sour forge]

Now that proc does 3% of thane damage instead of .3

[tacit crystal]

hi fisht thoughts on dk buffs

[candid pecan]

Tier set 4 set bonus bugged: Demolish gives 100% crit to all Mortal Strikes during the 14s Critical Conclusion window, not just the next 1 as the 4p tooltip states. Appears to ignore the intended nerf.

I have reported the issue on the PTR

[unborn canyon]

dont

its hope

[candid pecan]

[unborn canyon]

also, u sure you werent just really lucky?

[dreamy sandal]

This is now intended, no bugs here

[shadow ibex]

Finally appear in notes

Its nerfs

[candid pecan]

im sure, demolish, then i spammed sweep MS on 2 dummies in Dornogal, and ravager

[viral locust]

late to the party but resi 17 with a 2 second remaining on flood 17 (due to a tank wipe after bubbles) lol

clutch

[unborn canyon]

you're ruining the cover up

[fresh spire]

HA

can always count on them fucking something up

[unborn canyon]

[tacit crystal]

fihsy @fresh spire thoughts on dk buffs

[shadow ibex]

Ready for 3/4 dk in rwf

Cuz amz is busted

[dire hinge]

freedom

[lethal stream]

gg warrior nerf

[charred brook]

Am I to understand that we still don’t have any actual tuning. Just basically a bunch of tier set nerfs

Like thane gets buffed but like, also nerfed with seismic fix

So it’s still ass

[minor gust]

Most of the tuning will happen later

[charred brook]

I feel like they are holding cooldowns here

They are edging us until last week

[minor gust]

its pretty normal for blizz to do

[tacit crystal]

w dk buffs

i cant wai tto play another season of dk

[minor gust]

the ptr cycles have been fairly consistent these last couple years

[minor gust]

it wont be dk

[tacit crystal]

they cooked

[charred brook]

I feel like I remember warrior tuning before this point last time around

Because I was testing it during heroic raid ptr

[tacit crystal]

ut was like 30% aura buff

[minor gust]

thankfully we have this https://discord.com/channels/148872210742771712/1234949058121171069 to keep track of things and we didnt recieve those notes till 3 weeks before season release

so got another week

[charred brook]

I was close to being right

[shadow ibex]

Huge changes surely

Jugg not 15 stacks

[shadow ibex]

If our tank stays prot I think I'll main dk

[vague ore]

is the max gallagio rep you can gain per week 5k with clearing the raid + the elites?

[near radish]

oh i just saw frost buffs gg

[finite grotto]

Yuge

[tribal kindle]

Why arms is getting nerfed ?

[near steppe]

2 renown levels per week

[tiny plinth]

I have the same question..

They have all these classes with just insane overtuning and yet warrior throughput is average already plus low utility “yeah I think we should nerf their tier sets”

[native obsidian]

Do you gain more if you are really far behind, or is there no catch up

[near steppe]

I’m pretty sure it’s capped at 2 levels a week but I could be wrong

Might change next patch tho who knows I think there are rep buffs incoming

[native obsidian]

Thanks!

[spiral coral]

I can’t wait to main arms and have fun again next season

[stable fiber]

BRO FUCK

i had rank 1 or 2 myth gally

then died at 3%

lmfao

[smoky kayak]

they're nerfs, but very minor ones (Colossus is basically negligible)

[stable fiber]

still got my last 99 though

yeah prob rank 2 then died, will take a rank 5 though

[smoky kayak]

not sure you appreciate how dummy strong the sets still are lol

[tardy hare]

Can we stop saying nerfs are expected when warrior ends up being middle of the pack anyways. We said the same thing at the start of this season about execute

[fathom shoal]

wont change anything lol

[shadow ibex]

Exe nerf pre raid

[olive nest]

dont worry plenty of time for them to nerf execute by 30% right before the raid opens

[shadow ibex]

They nerfed they slayer tier exe buff already

[stable fiber]

nerf demolish by 20%

[open ingot]

Still time for them to nerf it more

[stable fiber]

to counteract the tier set

[minor gust]

its tradition now to nerf execute before the next season

[shadow ibex]

Shadowlands 2.0

[gusty nymph]

We have a tradition to uphold. Medium dps / low utility… people love it. 🥰

[fathom shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/itsaliving-flintstones-flinstones-squawk-whatever-gif-23412047

[gusty nymph]

🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

[open ingot]

Just makes us work a bit harder to beat the other dps

[gusty nymph]

Some dps won’t be within reach in m+. But I like the spirit 😇

[shadow ibex]

do your 6 global set up for aoe

dodge all ground swirls

make sure all mobs are in front for demolish cone

do less than the hunter

[nova marsh]

In those 6 gcds evreything is already dead

[shadow ibex]

ur gonna wanna charge ms cleave clap wb ravager sweeping ok now you can start building demo stacks

dont forget sks

[nova marsh]

Is arms reliant on chain pulling or is demo that easy to build it dosent matter at all

[shadow ibex]

its up often enough

even if you go into a pull with it ready still have all that set up

need to MS to fish for crit for bleed 100% buff

cleave to apply stuff tclap for rend

enter with 0 stacks or 10 still gotta do a ton of set up globals

still gotta rav still gotta sweep still gotta WB 10 stacks or 0

[vast helm]

Now can we have the Unhinged back?

[gusty nymph]

stop dooming. we wll be fire. infront of tanks and just behind most other dps classes. 🙂

[shadow ibex]

unhinged is an ST talent just ignore the fact all aoe and ST builds pick it up

i dont think there's a warrior build in TWW period that doesn't use unhinged in any content or target count

[smoky kayak]

cause it's really strong and there aren't a whole lot of options

[vast helm]

just look how silly that our warrior's bottom final talent

[shadow ibex]

its honestly emberassing dance of death has lasted this long lol

while other classes get talent reworks

[smoky kayak]

we got a few

[shadow ibex]

they've reworked our class tree many times i don't think anything has been accomplished besides us getting shockwave

the situation is largely the same as it was in DF

we drop TR capstones in raid, but they gutted TR so its not a real loss at all

otherwise despite the class reworks i don't think anything has changed significantly

[smoky kayak]

we got shockwave, bunch of extra stam, they improved the 3rd tier pathing

[shadow ibex]

yea i mentioned shockwave

the extra stam is nice but paths are largely the same. its still avatar and X. still a bunch of necessary stuff like frothing and CF

[gusty nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/hearse-zhivago1955-funeral-coach-uk-mexico-gif-20242484

[vast helm]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-coffin-coffin-dance-funeral-funny-farewell-gif-16737844

[dawn lynx]

just started back up got my warrior to 80 have like 90 gilded crests and 640 ilvl, 2h worth making with the crests for a quick bump?

was gonna play prot but got in a decent guild that needs arms

[wintry arch]

Unless you’re getting mythic loot soon I’d say wep is your best bet

[dawn lynx]

did manage to pull a house of cards heroic last night randomly from Nightfall weekly i just realized

okay bet yeah i got 3 dinars and only AOTC no mythic

[wintry arch]

Then you can upgrade 1h and shield for free if you craft a 2h

[dawn lynx]

good shit alright cool ty man

[wintry arch]

Np

[dawn lynx]

prolly eye of kezan with the dinars?

[smoky kayak]

I don't think we'll ever get away from that; Warrior is all about damage and defense, that's all they really have

[shadow ibex]

im ok with that its cool on paper and in theory but we dont deal more than other classes or have a kit that allows us to fine tune our dmg profile

[smoky kayak]

its not inherently a bad thing though, and the grass isn't always greener either

• a common complaint with classes like Sham and Druid is that most of their talents feel meaningless - they end up taking a ton of utility when they'll only actually use maybe one or two parts in a given situation... simply because there's nothing else to take

[shadow ibex]

we cant manipulate the enemy in ways you would expect a master of the battlefield does

nor are we the kings of combat our class/spec descriptions make us out to be

[smoky kayak]

Well we shouldn't arbitrarily do more damage than other classes, but as far as the kit fine tuning our damage profile... I mean it kind of does, but the issue there is that even if robust tools did exist, nobody really cares about "fine tuning their damage profile"

We live in an era of sims and minute measurements, in which all anyone cares about is raw throughput; they take whatever performs consistently best

side note, this is also why I really want to replace Spear with Condemn at the bottom of the tree, because I think that would make for a much more interesting choice alongside Avatar/Roar (although personally I'd also replace Roar, I just don't know with what yet)

[shadow ibex]

i dont think its arbitarily, i think that would be the reason to bring a warrior

[dawn lynx]

that's a very apt point. its solely about how you want to do the damage

[shadow ibex]

hey this guy doesn't bring shit

but dmg

playing warrior in m+ is very much playing your own game imo

[smoky kayak]

I mean that's a lot of classes in most situations to be fair

[dawn lynx]

brain dead rotation with 6 gcds to ramp up or some complicated shit to hopefully get 101% of the dmg ala rogue or something

[shadow ibex]

i think most classes can influence the pull tho

like a DK can bres even in a pull that can't have any grips

[smoky kayak]

while not an invalid criticism, it's very tangental to the discussing the layout of the talent tree

[shadow ibex]

the warrior is very much there doing their own thing. if someone dies or gets a mech there's very little you can do to fix that. we can tank in a pinch of course

[smoky kayak]

Arms (and Fury to a lesser extent) does have too many "setup" GCDs, but I have a pretty strong feeling they're gonna do something to address it in the future

[shadow ibex]

i think if the war was unique in our ability to fine tune our dmg profile to be suited for any situation you could say they dont need utility because the utility is the dmg

i think its a really unique place to be in for a class in any MMO. wow warrior would be very unique

[smoky kayak]

arguably tools do exist, they're just not particularly strong or highly circumstantial

• rally
• intervene
• storm shield
• taunt/dbts
• and a plethora of CC

Storm Sheild being the perfect example of a hypothetically useful tool that's tuned to the point of uselessness

[shadow ibex]

im talking more of utility that the average player can find use for and less tribal knowledge stuff

like a super casual mage knows what polymorph is

idk if we can say the same for parry tanking

[smoky kayak]

Well that's the point though, if they were a lot stronger, they'd be a lot more ubiquitous

[smoky kayak]

no, but you can say the same for storm bolt/shockwave/int shout, which are much more analogous to polymorph than DBTS tanking

[shadow ibex]

that's fair, but i think those are also just fairly common in the dps cc arms race

[smoky kayak]

well so is polymorph to mages

[shadow ibex]

i still think we don't really have the stuff to manipulate a pull in ways a lot of others can

[smoky kayak]

I don't disagree

[shadow ibex]

and i put bloodlust/time warp into that category

[smoky kayak]

Why I said, we have tools, they're just not particularly useful

Berserker Shout being another prime example

[shadow ibex]

and i think that's ok if you say make the dmg the tool

[smoky kayak]

as well as Shattering Throw and to an only slightly lesser extent Wrecking Throw

[shadow ibex]

this guy doesnt bring shit but no matter what type of pull we encounter

he will do good dmg in it

he cant purge shit he can't hard lock down a mob he cant ranged kick anything

[smoky kayak]

part of it is also just due to raw power creep across the game

Warriors used to be kinda the kings of stun and lockdown potential

but nowadays everyone has at least one, and many have more than one, forms of CC of their own

when a VDH or Prot Pal can basically lock down an entire pack by themselves, the Warrior bringing Shockwave, Storm Bolt, and Int Shout all at the same time is just kind of redundant

likewise, Warriors used to have one of the only AoE snares, and one of the most spammable single target snares, neither of which have a place in modern PvE

[shadow ibex]

i think obviously a ton of classes would want a dmg profile for everything etc etc but

they aren't warriors. their class isn't the master of combat

etc

[smoky kayak]

I wouldn't focus so much on flavor text, I've seen you bring it up a lot, but it's really not the best basis for an argument

every class is described with hyperbole, it's not meant to be an accurate reflection of capability, nor is it really ever sold that way

[shadow ibex]

idk i think ret pally probably feels and looks a lot like how it would be described

i think mages are definitely masters of arcane with their kit and how tricky they are

time warp is pretty high up for a DnD wizard but its a thing still

[charred brook]

does charged bolts still fuck in st

should i run it in raid

[slow saddle]

Our tier crutch wad nerfed... does that mean we will get buffed?

If not we seem fucked?

[gusty nymph]

A little… but they ll provide lubricant at some point 🧵

[shadow ibex]

the ms thing isnt the biggest thing sucks but

i would be more upset if it was 100% crit and bonus dam on them

[minor gust]

the colossus tier nerf is practically nothing

[shadow ibex]

i think its dumb after fixing the sweep thing lol

its not a big deal i think if we continue this jugg gameplay tho

that's fuckin criminal

[minor gust]

no idea why they made that change anyways prob was mostely for prot but eh who even knows

[shadow ibex]

Tuning waiting room now

[balmy kindle]

🙏

[shadow ibex]

not really a prayer or cope

tuning happens

just sayin thats all we got to look forward to i dont think we are getting any changes atp

[smoky kayak]

it doesn't suck at all, it's completely benign

[smoky kayak]

to avoid gaming issues and endless questions of whether you should save Demolish to align with Sweeping Strikes in order to get an extra crit with Sweeping Strikes, avoid using Ravager alongside Demolish to not munch procs, etc

the crit is just a vehicle for the bleed amp, and since it's a buff instead of a debuff, you only need one anyway... so really it's just cleaner this way; even if it seems like it should be a loss, there's no practical change

[shadow ibex]

its the loss of 2 more demo stacks that we really care about

at least me

[smoky kayak]

well you didn't lose 2 demo stacks, you're still casting MS so that's 1

and Arms generally stacks a lot of crit, so while not a guaranteed crit anymore, there's still a decent likelihood you will crit

so in reality you lost like half a crit/half a stack

[fallen thistle]

is warcraft logs just defaulting to charged bolts for the new belt or should I be taking that over critical chain?

[smoky kayak]

and Demo comes back pretty fast on PTR as is, so you're really not gonna notice it

[smoky kayak]

idk about WCL reporting, but Charged Bolts is the belt default; not recommended that you use it though

[magic canopy]

yeah wcl shows charged bolts by defualt

[smoky kayak]

WCL probably just didn't jump through the hoops to show the correct power, since blizz didn't make it easy this time around

[fallen thistle]

kk. I have been using Critical chains and just noticed the top ten had bolts listed. So I started to wonder if WCL isnt reporting what they were using. thx for the info!

[balmy kindle]

I really hope we do get changes tho but I am not having high hopes

[calm stump]

Was reclearing M mug’zee last week and on a wipe call I ran into a mine to die but I had die by the sword running and didn’t die. Logs confirmed I got the debuff from tanking a bomb. Anybody know for certain whether that’s an intended mechanic or if something else happened there?

[copper stump]

Thats common and intended. There are groups who actually assign warriors for popping a mine

[weak wave]

What is a magic damage 'event'?

[bright ginkgo]

A damage input that is magic

[smoky kayak]

a damage event, e.g. in the combat log

[calm stump]

Much appreciated

[slow saddle]

Well if all goes to shit we can always just all go prot IN m+

[hexed snow]

If all goes to shit we can just re-roll retri

[dim basalt]

[keen jackal]

Trying arms out but I suck at the rotation. Do you spam execute nonstop when in excecute, or still use bladestorm, overpower, MS?

[hexed snow]

If youre using recommended talents

you want too Exec two times to mortal strike, thats the easiest cheat sheet

You overpower if you get a OPP proc

More advanced is too

Bladestorm when you have executed two times (keep the mortal strike) and preferably colossus smash follows with before the bladestorm - Chuck a stormbolt for free 40k dmg while spinning :P

Overpower if you have opportunist (opp) up, and aswell if you have less than two martial prowess

mortal strike if you have two stacks of executioners precision (execute two times on target when target is 35% or less)

overpower if ur low on rage

execute

@keen jackal

Sry for bad englando

[narrow flax]

Thank god im not completely crazy :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1luut10/pressing_play_on_battlenet_doesnt_start_wow/?share_id=E8tK-unxxKlXwsnMaSHXx&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

it does open

but have to wait like 10-15 mins

[strange perch]

@tacit crystal do the dance with the pants

[quartz adder]

Are someone farming Nyalotha for the seer mount? i did it on all my chars in Uldum last week, but i cant see the raid in pandaria this week? Why is this happening, something i need to do?

[keen jackal]

thank you so much bro!

[void bay]

I think it's because it's decompressing files....I ended up with like 6 WoW instances open lol

[void bay]

it's in Uldum always now isnt it?

[narrow flax]

i had the same

took so long

also couldn't uninstall or repair

so was kinda confused

cuz they were greyed out