thats kinda where im at
#arms
hexed saddle
gaunt owl
its easy to flag them as ban worthy people
spiral coral
Also, it just looks better.
Hunters and Mages discord logos look boring as hell again
Actually idk if mages changed it back, it was so minimal lol. Still terrible logo.
tacit crystal
i legit forgot it was rainbow
olive nest
you guys look at the server icon?
tacit crystal
i dont even remember the original icon
spiral coral
discords becoming too bloated
quaint otter
why not just dodge it
azure onyx
why does blizzard hate us
gaunt owl
they love your money
mortal crag
why not just dodge it
i asked a question
why are u answering with a question
that doesnt answer my question?
hexed saddle
try it urself
quaint otter
^
quaint otter
why are u answering with a question
cuz its weird 
tardy hare
i asked a question
You can’t parry the bleed you can parry the smash
mortal crag
great thanks
mortal crag
try it urself
yeah but if ic an get an answer without spending time on it, why not?
mortal crag
cuz its weird <:clueless:1099922541923024997>
cuz im trying to get moer damage out during table tech on my psf 19 right now mr
since theres nothing on that pull that does damage
hexed saddle
wahoo
halcyon valve
so free that bladestorm just always aligned with adds
zealous flume
stupid question since i finally got my hand on myth track versions of both
how do i use best in slots with house of cards, they put each other on cd no?
which takes prio with CDs, etc
which takes prio, etc
halcyon valve
lmao wrecking throw just doing 1% of my overall dps on this boss
also surprising that whirlwind actually is worth pressing on the big add packs in the last phase
two ww casts, each 4.1m damage. average execute sitting at 3.24m
dim basalt
Might as well just sweep no?
spiral coral
why does blizzard hate us
Blizzard has killed 3 of my favorite games 
Or at least they don’t get support anymore
covert drift
question, people are discussing the ptr on this channel or there is some other i don't see it?
dim basalt
Happens in this channel
rare kite
question, people are discussing the ptr on this channel or there is some other i...
at random yes. no ptr channel
dim basalt
Theres no dedicated channel, nothing to discuss really
spiral coral
there’s ptr discussion here and the other two, yes. just a lot have already gamed a lot of ptr
dim basalt
Its essentially the same spec
rare kite
not alot to discuss for us on ptr. only thing really is if arterial bleed is worth in dungeons or not
rare kite
oh and some people getting annoyed at sks seeing play for colossus
dim basalt
Will be another middle of the pack patch
covert drift
i don't understand why warrior seems so hard to balance it seems
dim basalt
By definition warrior is pretty balanced right now
languid burrow
i used to want a rework for warrior dps, but now i'd just be happy if they lifted the 5-target cap to 8-target
covert drift
By definition warrior is pretty balanced right now
what do you mean?
dim basalt
what do you mean?
We are middle of the pack, how is that not balanced?
Neither strong nor weak
rare kite
i used to want a rework for warrior dps, but now i'd just be happy if they lifte...
at the bargaining stage of the 5 stages of grief. nice
covert drift
We are middle of the pack, how is that not balanced?
It's not balanced because if a spec that is middle of the pack dont have any utility, that class should be considered weak
dim basalt
We have plenty of utility, its just not useful
covert drift
A no utility class should have higher than average damage to compensate
languid burrow
at the bargaining stage of the 5 stages of grief. nice
100%
covert drift
what utility do we have? putting aside the kick and stun that is pretty much generic
rally cry is pretty awful
rare kite
our stun is definetely not generic. giga short cd that knocks up
halcyon magnet
spell reflect is still goated
dim basalt
Technically spear is utility as well
covert drift
Okay, so from what i get it you guys think warrior is in a perfect spot for m+?
rare kite
but yes other than shockwave we do not have utility. not that i really care that much, just wanna do damage
halcyon magnet
perfect spot is different from being balanced
dim basalt
They need to buff the utility that we do have, not add more
covert drift
perfect spot meaning no needs for any change
rare kite
Okay, so from what i get it you guys think warrior is in a perfect spot for m+?
obviously not. but thinking utility is what makes a spec top tier is wrong. damage is king
halcyon magnet
balanced means it performs well but can be improved
dim basalt
Which is the state of Arms right now
We suffer more from gameplay issues than anything else
languid burrow
You know, at the start of PTR for TWW, Warriors were going to get a Banner that gives 20% crit dmg for 10sec to raid. But it was going to cost a GCD so the community didn't want it.
covert drift
I don't see that. to me balanced means is in a balanced state, meaning, no changes needed
if it needs improvement, by improving, you imbalance other things and itself
it makes no sense
rare kite
You know, at the start of PTR for TWW, Warriors were going to get a Banner that ...
still do not want it. giga cringe talent "warrior hold banner for other peoples cds"
dim basalt
I don't see that. to me balanced means is in a balanced state, meaning, no chang...
By your definition no class is balanced
rare kite
it is MY cd
halcyon magnet
if its perfect not a single class is balanced
covert drift
exactly, because it is impossible
dim basalt
Every spec / class has some issues
halcyon magnet
because there's always something to improve
halcyon magnet
so you think of relative balance to what is performing the best and worst
dim basalt
So if it is impossible why are you asking for it?
halcyon magnet
so yeah????
languid burrow
still do not want it. giga cringe talent "warrior hold banner for other peoples ...
Right, that's what warriors were going to get for utility. My point is, we were given a suggestion for utility by the devs but we refused. To be fair, idk why it had to be GCD
covert drift
maybe i'm just spoiled
but to me warrior having utility is something akin to what we had in mop
dim basalt
Arms is doing decent in raid (and probably will in next raid too) and is doing well in phys comp in M+
covert drift
skull banner, demo banner, aoe reflect, good rally cry
languid burrow
but to me warrior having utility is something akin to what we had in mop
That's why i'm playing warrior in MOP. Great to look to the past for some ideas.
rare kite
not to mention that banner would take up a talent point. "hey why didn't you pick banner?" coz it's a damage loss for me. and then you have to pick it for other people
languid burrow
not to mention that banner would take up a talent point. "hey why didn't you pic...
Right, so that kind of undermines the argument from the community that warrior is lacking utility. I think people are really aiming to ask for something like Lust or Brez. something binary like that.
which, i agree, something like lust or brez should be given to warrior (lust is lore accurate)
covert drift
I just think every spec should have its design ideas and the damage it deals should also reflect that.
For instance, to me, a ret paladin doing more damage than arms warrior makes no sense
Paladin does much more to the group than an warrior, so it should compensate by doing less damage
Warrior it the low utility spec, by design, but because of that, it should do more damage.
dim basalt
You cant purely go off damage anyway
Theres a lot of different damage patterns and whatnot
rare kite
which, i agree, something like lust or brez should be given to warrior (lust is ...
would not surprise me if we got a battleress in midnight. have a hard time believing in bloodlust, coz then prot would get it. would be the only tank with lust
covert drift
if they don't want to give warrior anything else like brez or lust, make warrior the bigger than average melee dps class
misty bridge
it already is as Colossus
languid burrow
For Arms, damage is fine, but that's not the issue. Arms just feels bad or non-sensical. It's rotation and needed tech for optimizing cleave is cringe.
none of the CDs line up and you just hit whatever button
covert drift
For Arms, damage is fine, but that's not the issue. Arms just feels bad or non-s...
i agree, a lot of buttons should be combined
sweeping feels bad to press
roar feels redundant, just a button to press every now and again
demolish feels great
languid burrow
Collateral should not be a thing. Or rather Arms should not be prepping for a pull by holding onto previous buffs from Demo and Collateral. That's counter-intuitive and degenerate
languid burrow
I'm not asking for Arms to be top dps cuz thats just tuning
dim basalt
Collateral should not be a thing. Or rather Arms should not be prepping for a pu...
Might be removed on PTR
Sham doesnt have that anymore
But I have no confirmation if that also happened to us
languid burrow
Arms should just be simplified is all. Imagine a new player picking up the game - Arms should at least feel as simple as Fury
covert drift
you mean at the start of the dg or between packs?
dim basalt
start of dungeon
languid burrow
you mean at the start of the dg or between packs?
Both
covert drift
Arms should just be simplified is all. Imagine a new player picking up the game ...
not as fury, fury should be simple imo, it fits de spec fantasy
but not that much harder either
rare kite
Arms should just be simplified is all. Imagine a new player picking up the game ...
funnily enough arms is prob easier than fury atm, except for collat shenanigans
languid burrow
Arms shouldn't feel pressured to push their tank to pull at specific time just so they can optimize their personal dmg
dim basalt
Some people here prefer Legion Arms
languid burrow
MOP arms was perfect man
as im playing it, I agree. Whoever cooked up MoP Arms needs to come back. CUZ THEY COOKED
fair siren
Some people here prefer Legion Arms
this, mop arms sucked. we were banner npcs
languid burrow
this, mop arms sucked. we were banner npcs
but our personal dmg and rotation was still great tho
Also Banner is off-gcd
fair siren
but our personal dmg and rotation was still great tho
st was abyssmal aoe was great terrible overall experience unless super casual
languid burrow
st was abyssmal aoe was great terrible overall experience unless super casual
That's fine, i'm ok with the dps being instrumental and not "be all end all"
fair siren
for you sure, noone wants to be a banner npc
rare kite
Some people here prefer Legion Arms
any day. lots of people complained that we only did damage in cs, which was true. but they could have just changed our mastery and left the spec alone, instead they changed the entire thing. legion arms was goated, had insanely satisfying procs which we currently lack
fair siren
legion arms was incredible
languid burrow
the bleeds on Legion Arms was insane
dim basalt
The only satisfaction we get right now is 15 stacks of jugg into exe or getting 3 stacks of mfe during bs 
jade ember
Other than lego acquisition Legion was just built diff
languid burrow
judging by how well some of other specs are usually doing, whoever designs the druid class is def a Boomkin main
that spec eats good almost every season
jade ember
a class built for spread aoe that isn't bad at every other niche is just gonna be good unless it's bad at every other niche prolly
languid burrow
in PTR it's looking really good
jade ember
boomkin are bugged on ptr right now rite?
dim basalt
idk if they still are
Sham designer is also clearly an Enh main
Enh keeps getting good stuff which fucks up ele at the same time
fair siren
focused rage was also a banger if you were lucky enough to play it in mythic prog. i could be wrong but i think that was the largest nuke war has ever had and it felt so rewarding
rare kite
Sham designer is also clearly an Enh main
atleast they main one of the specs within their developer class. whomever makes warrior changes clearly do not main warrior
hahah...
latent moss
theres a new guy that plays colo no
dim basalt
I would say rip prot war but theyre not doing bad on ptr
latent moss
pwar is crazy
languid burrow
yeah man prot is .....nvm its ok
dim basalt
selfheal went stonks
languid burrow
dont wanna jinx it
rare kite
theres a new guy that plays colo no
yeah, i don't think he's a class developer tho no?
rare kite
yeah
jade ember
i know they don't play Thane, at least Fury DPS, lol
languid burrow
Thane's tier set looks like it was last-minute overnight post.
shadow ibex
spear needs to be ursols
dim basalt
ye
shadow ibex
idk why we have 3 fucking 90 sec CDs
jade ember
that 10 minutes on DF PTR when we had the Leap AOE grip talent hngggg
magic canopy
the bitches love sousa
shadow ibex
its still insane how much dmg we have in our class tree compared to others
biggest thing you notice playing another class imo
jade ember
yeah for sure
dim basalt
yup
jade ember
feels like other classes get dam from class talents in more interesting ways too but idk might be overthinking it
dim basalt
monk be like "press ToD to deal 5% more damage for 30 seconds!"
jade ember
on my rogue rn and they got like stacking haste on finishers and thistle tea etc
dim basalt
Thistle Tea sucks ngl
jade ember
I only play assa and that shi is hella macro'd into Shiv tbh
dim basalt
Rogue is defo bloated in some way as well
quaint otter
monk be like "press ToD to deal 5% more damage for 30 seconds!"
give back double and cleaving tod...
dim basalt
I wish monk had proper defensives
dim basalt
karma is pala shield but worse
wall straight up sucks
The magic one is really good however
latent moss
<@692035495718551564>
ye him
jade ember
Arms does feel a bit a mess sometimes, like in DF when we were WW spam for like 80 seconds at a time in dungos
rare kite
Was pretty bad too. Not horrible but the weakest of the 3 builds that saw play
jade ember
It's just a thing, feels like Blizz figured out Fury back in Legion but Arms changes massively every few patches
teal fossil
i think having a "thing" in your talents are cool
changing flavors once in a while
while fury has been largely the same for 5 or so years now
strange perch
@tacit crystal
ocean cave
heyo peeps,
is there any talent changes we do on ptr for m+?
or do we just rock the live ones
dim basalt
heyo peeps,
is there any talent changes we do on ptr for m+?
We might play more around bleeds
So SKS + bloodborne
And perhaps Arterial Bleed
polar yew
hows war looking in ptr? (dps)
rare kite
hows war looking in ptr? (dps)
For m+ arms mid. For m+ fury not good
plucky mortar
So SKS + bloodborne
Wish sks would die
spiral coral
Ehhhhh I mean, idk. It’s fun if there’s variety, and it’s viable. Not if it’s the only choice. I like when sks is good, but it seems like it gets overtuned or nuked into the ground no between.
plucky mortar
I dont like it cause I want to bonk enemies not bleed them to death
echo prism
Hi, i have a question what do you put in buff on the belt ?
arctic iris
echo prism
THx alot !
gleaming kraken
So is there a point on the tier where overpower becomes more important than a two stack mortal strike
minor gust
not really no
nova marsh
Guys does anyone play GW2 ?
balmy kindle
For m+ arms mid. For m+ fury not good
surely patch notes save us
boreal hawk
simple falcon
@reef glade
reef glade
@simple falcon
simple falcon
untold trench
grand idol
They just drop. Legacy loot doesn't care.
reef glade
swift crown
Why is Gold Ship literally everywhere
I get it but
Damn
idk
I am still not a big fan of the set bonus
it feels like such a bandaid
for the issues Slayer has
In both iterations
slow saddle
It is 100% a bandaid!. While we wait for rework
viral locust
Until you catch a frontal demolishing
slow saddle
11.2 arms rework <@692035495718551564>
12.1 now
sacred zodiac
11.2 arms rework <@692035495718551564>
philliam copium has been outlawed
balmy kindle
boreal quartz
philliam copium has been outlawed
I am quoting from last expansion
Idk the Patch numbers
Ngl
woven wasp
Part 2 of the 10.2 rework is coming next week
zealous flume
stupid question again: if you have house of cards and best in slots, do i just use house of cards with avatar and then 20 seconds later best in slots on CD or do i put best in slots in my next colossus smash window inbetween avatars
rare kite
the latter
zealous flume
so, if i wanted to be a lazy baby and did the opener right... i COULD put /use trinket slot as a line above avatar in a macro and put best in slots as a line above colossus smash in a macro, provided i track both and dont accidentially press colossus smash before avatar, which i shouldnt be doing anyway if its possible to line them up
or is there a good reason to keep them both keybinded seperatly
latent moss
11.2 arms rework <@692035495718551564>
real
quasi torrent
or is there a good reason to keep them both keybinded seperatly
the reason is later in the fight when using bis on cd would cause you to not have hoc back for Avatar
zenith warren
when they usuall announce patch date? 2 weeks prior?
zealous flume
the reason is later in the fight when using bis on cd would cause you to not hav...
but if i do BIS with colossus only, i should always have cards for avatar right?
zealous flume
true
hm
ok, so i should have Bis keybound seperatly but cards macrod into avatar should be fine?
swift crown
Yea
quasi torrent
That works yes
zealous flume
neat. keybinds were getting a bit cluttered ty
quasi torrent
U can just put bis on ur generic trinket keybind
and don't even bind hoc
honestly
zealous flume
on that note, anybody can reommend a good weakaura specifically to track juggernaught stacks? like one would track say, shieldblock uptime? considering thats a significant part of the arms warrior pre-execute minigame i figured i could do better than starting at a tiny little default icon on the WA package
zealous flume
U can just put bis on ur generic trinket keybind
that was the plan
before saving some keybinding space i did look at my hotbars and thought.... do i really need an accessible keybind for bolstering shout? which made me hover over that button again and it made me sad
but they buffed AMZ again so noticeable bolster isnt completly off the cards i hope 😄
quasi torrent
bolster? u mean rally?
zealous flume
ah shit yeah
quasi torrent
rally is good
zealous flume
10% right?
quasi torrent
don't let the doomposters tell u otherwise
10% is 10%
i do think nerfing it AND taking away the talent simultaneously was a mistake
but its not bad
zealous flume
(main is mage, and considering how many mugzee p2 bomb soak spaghetti fiestas have been narrowly saved by me insisting to be put in a group with the healers and mass barriering them, 10% is 10%)
quasi torrent
see, group wide
:)
idk how dying to bombs can still happen after all the nerfs and power ups we got this tier
zealous flume
it does
people running into them in melee and then like 4 are popped at the same time and 2 soaks go through or smth
but, its also propably melees greeding and not soaking.
or not leaving melee range to soak
which is funny because we are damage stopping for like a full minute anyway, but yeah, mug was just an example ^^
blissful tree
ok, so i should have Bis keybound seperatly but cards macrod into avatar should ...
i have an avatar, use 13, use 16 macro. when bis is off cd is press that keybind. i use that macro because for normal world stuff i just use two passive trinkets.
zealous flume
idk how dying to bombs can still happen after all the nerfs and power ups we got...
what IS funny that we have basically the same roster as a rando rank 800 ish 2 day CE guild as we did last tier, but silken court eventually became really smooth on reclears, but mugzee is always a fiesta. This to me reads like a decent indicator of melee greed 😄
quasi torrent
Silken can also be fiesta if melee greed
i didnt do any mugzee farm so idk how bad it is tbf
(i didnt even play dps on mug)
zealous flume
i think the issue is more that on silken and like, ansurek p1, the temptation to greed was much lower because rhe punishment was much more severe. people get away with being lazy on soaks like, every other pull right, because i pop every defensive on mage and blink 3 soaks or some BS
quasi torrent
magebtw
zealous flume
magebtw
ok, fair, BUT for that example, only me and the dragon can even like, soak hard enough to make up for the DH refusing to move at all. what are you gonna do, expect the poor little spriest to get more than 1)
i mean most of the super mobile specs that could get 3 soaks, live, and instantly return to the boss happen to be melees
quasi torrent
15% is 15%
i dont think it needs to be stronger in m+
maybe 2min cd in m+ would be more helpful honestly
dim basalt
20 yeah
quasi torrent
20% of the mage innit
But the good thing about it is how long it lasts too
being able to prefire it yepyep
quasi torrent
hp cool
dim basalt
.
latent moss
20% of mage = 4% of thane fury
steep osprey
lmao
spiral coral
Mage alt is the best alt imo
shadow ibex
Kill all mages
dim basalt
amen
zealous flume
20% of the mage innit
in arcanes case its 20% of mage hp scaled by vers and reduces magic damage by 15%. shields a bit bigger for frostfire but no magic DR. but it "only" hits 4 people and the mage, its less of a raid CD but more of a "put me in a group with the squisies" CD
its more or less wasted tho if your raidleader doesnt put you in the squishy group. but mage definetly has too little raid utility, nerf rally again, make it 5% and give mage a talent that makes MB raidwide, i think thats fair
on that note, hilarious that warrior of all classes doesnt have bloodlust
dim basalt
on that note, hilarious that warrior of all classes doesnt have bloodlust
Cant give bl to a tank smh
spiral coral
blood lust potions or make drums just as good 
For m+ only
Pvp players have pvp pots why can’t we have m+ only stuff 
teal fossil
they do?
dim basalt
The pots are non-rated only
spiral coral
Oh
spiral coral
My only pvp is- jumping into stuff for Medal of Honor and to get destroyed and yelled at by the actual pvp players trying to have fun
mortal crag
is it worth to line up collat stacks with BOTH warbreaker and demo? like, warb>demo or is it fine with just warb?
rare kite
blood lust potions or make drums just as good <:monkahmm:1382590600439664751>
drums used to be just 5% less than lust
was so good
spiral coral
yeah when I came back and they weren’t a thing anymore I was confused a bit
slow saddle
is it worth to line up collat stacks with BOTH warbreaker and demo? like, warb>d...
If u can and its closenid say y alwayd demo b4 big col
Its free amp no?
mortal crag
yh but its not priority is it?
like lets say cleave abt to fall or its not perfectly lined
slow saddle
I mean if its fallin off not rly a choice is it?
In gen unless u can get all shit of within seconds id say not wortth it
Like if its rav+avatar+demo combo prob worth
If not cleave fucls
mortal crag
for ex
first pull cb
i enter it with 4s left and i need to stack my demolish to 10
better to just cleave and send a 10st demolish
than to do a 2st demolish
and cleave
no?
plush smelt
Yes cleave on wb ravager buff and stack demo fast to get it off while warb still active
shadow ibex
I just want colossus tier bonus already
spiral coral
I don’t wanna do the same colossus rotation next season in m+
shadow ibex
You get to sweep sks
outer holly
mortal crag
can we parry hobgoblni charge in cinder?
teal fossil
I hope we take extended sweep next tier
Because sweep allows ms to roll for crit twice
mortal crag
can we parry hobgoblni charge in cinder?
any1?
teal fossil
any1?
Check the spell reflect sheet, if something is blockable it should be parryable
Not sure though
charred brook
Why can’t we parry the dot on 1st boss cinder
It’s crazy that we just have nothing to deal with that
It fucks lol
dim basalt
SR + def stance?
dim basalt
can we parry hobgoblni charge in cinder?
If its not some kind of white hit the chance you cant parry it is 99.9%
mortal crag
wym, u can parry the smash on shaynemail
mortal crag
Spell reflect sheet has regular block also
oh okay
charred brook
On anything over an 18 if it’s a bad overlap where your healer can’t full focus you even with sr and def you die
dim basalt
wym, u can parry the smash on shaynemail
Sounds like a bad decision to do tho
charred brook
Nah u usually do that during the double pull
At the start
So you don’t lose all your damage
dim basalt
It still fucks
ye but we are a lot less screwed if we get it multiple times than other specs tbf
Because our stuff has no cd
charred brook
When you pull shaynemail into the caster mini boss
And stand in the table
You usually parry the first smash
So you don’t have to leave during your cds
Other than that I wouldn’t use it though
Like if you’re outside cds
charred brook
ye but we are a lot less screwed if we get it multiple times than other specs tb...
That’s true to be fair
I agree
ancient scroll
charred brook
Crit
jade ember
Random question I just thought of. I feel like this is true because I already know that Enrage applies before Rampage if you are not enraged, but does Deep Wounds apply before MS/Cleave if striking a target that does not have it yet?
sage badge
Deep wounds applies after MS/Cleave/CS, so the first cast does not benefit from deep wounds if the target(s) doesn't have them.
jade ember
Bah lame.
shadow ibex
Release date 
No warrior notes
Release date before we even appear in notes is wild ngl
rare kite
No warrior notes
all we're gonna get is thane set buffed
and the buff will not be near enough
oak quartz
Next Warrior patch note: None.
gusty nymph
surprise 🙂
gaunt owl
Next Warrior patch note: None.
you forgot to blue text that one
fresh spire
minor gust
tribal kindle
15%
fresh spire
Well if they nerf arms and don't touch fury gg fury tier
rare kite
Remember when we didn't get any df changes cuz tww rework
yupp. love it, split SoA in half and remove big WW. there you have it
fresh spire
From raid dps numbers
rare kite
big rework
fresh spire
minor gust
yupp. love it, split SoA in half and remove big WW. there you have it
plz dont ever bring that up
its trigger words for me
dim basalt
How ahead is Fury?
fresh spire
500k rn
dim basalt
What the fuck
rare kite
plz dont ever bring that up
i apologize
minor gust
i apologize
A part of me died that day when I saw they removed improved slam and their decision to replace it with something was to split an already existing talent in half
rare kite
yeah. genuinely baffling
minor gust
when as a spec we are already down so bad for creativity
ret pally just gets all better versions of our stuff
minor gust
Ain't happening no dev plays this class outside of a delve alt so they don't care since the class is fine to play
quaint otter
shadow ibex
Ain't happening no dev plays this class outside of a delve alt so they don't car...
That really is it tho
They don't play this shit
So much stuff wouldn't exist if someone who worked on wow played this class in more than heroic dungeons
Dance of death alone is just inexcusable
On death capstone. Has never been used in any content. Was reworked going in to tww
Still has never been used in any content
quaint otter
Can u remember how much was mm reworked
rare kite
atleast dance of death could work in theory. i think storm of swords is the biggest offender, with current arms it would just NEVER see play
shadow ibex
Spiteful serenity
Lmao
Spiteful serenity is just a worse am
If you ever have any questions on do they have any idea what they are doing that should explain it
minor gust
Yee spiteful and storm of swords are the 2 big ones
shadow ibex
I just can't fathom introducing a talent that doubles CS uptime
minor gust
Being like why does this exist doesn't make sense
shadow ibex
When AM does that
You could only come up with those if talent design is completely removed from actual gameplay and you just create word salad just cuz you can
30% of a 100% discount it's the most buzzword talent i ever seen and I didn't know you could even do that
minor gust
I thought storm of swords would be good for a WW spam build but it's ass. We have insane rage gen so don't need the free WWs plus shit doesn't contribute to AM or ToM
shadow ibex
Its like whoever made it has never hit enter world with a warrior selected
Only explanation
Otherwise just an idiot
minor gust
Shit like onslaught being removed from UF killing synergy from other fury capstone talents while also complete gutting the proc change of UF
shadow ibex
Odyns
minor gust
Was a sad sight
shadow ibex
Idek what they want stuff to be
None of this matters we complained for a rework all of tww
Same shit this expac
We got our talents cut in half and sold back to us
minor gust
Arms and fury need what MM got a complete look over on the vision of what the spec/fantasy is supposed to be while keeping the core core gameplay intact
shadow ibex
It's needed that for a few years now
I don't think it's happening
You wouldn't rework specs with more than a handful on rework #2 or 3 and not even touch this 1 if you really had an idea for it
shadow ibex
Fury still has the x2 ravager shit lol
It's not even a pvp talent its so shit
Even with x2 bs
minor gust
mortal crag
sadly it was arguably one of my worst runs
we've had ones where i topped the meters
but, happens
5.3m on details
minor gust
I wish my grp I was pushing with didnt implode
mortal crag
our group is composed of multi r1 tank, washed up r1 heal, me (degen), feral degen and 5th dps is usually a friend or a random
the amount of giga yapping we do is insane
dim basalt
I wish my grp I was pushing with didnt implode
Whats the story
dim basalt
Is this supposed to be funny because you cant read or what
slow saddle
They went into a submarine
dim basalt
mortal crag
yes
minor gust
Whats the story
Uh TLDR lost healer early on so always had to pug one. Tank who was intially fine with not playing meta was getting upset that we werent playing meta. PPL started to lose interest and gg for the rest of the season
dim basalt
ayo that sounds exactly like what happened to my team
except it was a dps instead of healer
minor gust
it was cursed progging 18s with a new healer everytime not in coms
rare kite
it was cursed progging 18s with a new healer everytime not in coms
how in the world does farover do it with no coms
it's crazy man
lean geode
This is merged now smiley face
minor gust
how in the world does farover do it with no coms
Good experienced players who prob are really good at planning things out and following through
like if you know what your supposed to be doing every single time in the right order
would be ez no coms
gaunt owl
many more "exclude warrior"
minor gust
because its a disc priest for the 20th time sitting on 2 charges of PI all dungeon
minor gust
the amount of meta andy disc priests out there who dont use PI is crazy
lean geode
HUH? 500k difference?? WTF, so arms buffs inc? or fury nerfs? 500k? what?
Probably arms buffs, I don't think fury is an outlier at its current strength
This tier seems like insane levels of power creep from set bonuses
boni, if you will
actually apparently "bonuses" is correct
hexed saddle
"getting"
quaint otter
many more "exclude warrior"
Because warrior is not many.
foggy quiver
im way skeptical too.. its seems like that was the most of the changes and the rest are minor changes here and t here.. at least thats what i get from
slow saddle
I mean imho arms dont rly need a true rework to function
Until next expansion
But by then they cant keep bandaiding us
Fury though...
tacit crystal
This is merged now smiley face
gz bigbowwl
calm hollow
restive flax
For mog farming with this event, class doesn’t matter right? Like I can get cloth drops on my warrior and collect appearances?
broken arrow
For mog farming with this event, class doesn’t matter right? Like I can get clot...
Correct
restive flax
Thanks
nova marsh
So guys
Did arms get a single change during this ptr cycle?
Besides the goated demolish change
near radish
anyone have a weakaura that plays sound when demolish is off cd (no visual just sound)
spiral coral
anyone have a weakaura that plays sound when demolish is off cd (no visual just ...
It should be lining up with av/rav or pretty close idk why you’d need it just for demo
grave mulch
the same classes getting reworks ever patch
dapper abyss
anyone have a weakaura that plays sound when demolish is off cd (no visual just ...
If you use a WA pack (like Luxthos or something) you can set a condition trigger to something like “if on CD False then play sound X”
Super easy to configure, just find demolish in the WA pack you use and set that condition
stable fiber
let see if colossus owns on gally
ts ass
spiral coral
Soooo
I don’t understand why I haven’t gotten the tw mount
I have all of them but the one with the hat/pirate dragon
I’ve done idk, 20+ at this point
Across multiple alts
Is it RNG to get the 3rd mastery achievement or timegated or am I dumb (I know its the latter)
grand idol
It's supposed to be time gated (do 5 sets of 4 over the entire event) But it was working in a weird way and you could spam them on an alt in the first week and get full count. I don't know if they fixed that.
spiral coral
Wonder if it’s because I’ve gotten the other two in such quick succession? I got them back to back but that was LAST timeways
My shit is broken
tiny plinth
do i have to do the 5 out of 7 times on one character or can it be split amongst multiple characters\
sterile geyser
Sorry for the dumb question but how do we feel about arms or fury in the hext raid?
Just from what we have seen so far in testing.
sterile geyser
Damn
winged quiver
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1230008337517514772/1273720854383165601/d...
2 target cleave is big next tier 😄 inb4 we are top dps
grave mulch
Damn
Like all honesty we have gotten any tunning yet but look in the Updates channel for some numbers
to get an ideas
and its still early days so keep an eye out.
things will get buffed things reverted who knows. things get nerfed
stable fiber
Sorry for the dumb question but how do we feel about arms or fury in the hext ra...
doomer is as the name suggests dooming
i will say arms looks solid going into next raid
i actually think it was one of the better tuned specs, everything else above them where just significantly OVERTUNED, namely, spriest and boomkin
really the only 2 specs that did more than me, mm/bm hunter probably would as well
astral yarrow
dw its just PTR 
mortal crag
It's imposs to hold collat stacks on prio and flood right?
On first pull
Prio we do shroud skip
Flood is regular pull no hyenas
rare kite
Huh? Why would that be impossible
mortal crag
Cuz you drop stacks by the time tank gathers
Prio first pull you have like 15s of shroud and more than 5s of waiting for tank to gather
I tried yday and it seemed imposs
Flood takes like 10s-15 to reach pack
And if I drop a 10 stack nuke with no aggro from tank I'm deadge or gotta parry/meld
rare kite
Just hit the first target the tank does. If nelf you can do it on your own with dbts leap away meld
mortal crag
So I just use my big defensive and meld to hit like 2 targets bruh?
That seems simply not worth it in a 19
mortal crag
So I just use my big defensive and meld to hit like 2 targets bruh?
With a non buffed collat
minor gust
So I just use my big defensive and meld to hit like 2 targets bruh?
hes talking about pre stacking collateral while tank is gathering
mortal crag
Im talking about having my 10-12 stacks on pre pull
swift crown
dw its just PTR <:blizzdesign:745704462613741648>
PTR performance is only indicative of real performance if Mage is broken
mortal crag
hes talking about pre stacking collateral while tank is gathering
The tank is a brew that just spins and then rolls and throws a keg so if I hit more than a couple times I will get aggro 🥀
I can ask my tank ig
minor gust
thats why you have dbts and meld
astral yarrow
PTR performance is only indicative of real performance if Mage is broken
Blue and purple on top (not dh)
swift crown
Blue and purple on top (not dh)
Idk how shit stacks up after Demo buffs
but my gut feeling is Deva is still just better than Demo
astral yarrow
im mostly all good with actual dps dragons getting some time in the meta, but they do destroy all the padding fun like we did in Nerubar
near radish
And if I drop a 10 stack nuke with no aggro from tank I'm deadge or gotta parry/...
When people say they have to parry does that mean dbts/def stance or get lucky?
mortal crag
Dbts
rare kite
The tank is a brew that just spins and then rolls and throws a keg so if I hit m...
you can hit something hit by keg smash i think
last inlet
how we lookin bois?
rare kite
decent in m+
dim basalt
in raid
dim basalt
More like low in comparison to Fury
last inlet
ahhh ok
dim basalt
Overall its hard to judge, but definitely not far up
last inlet
was trying to decide between FDK or arms warrior..........
last inlet
yeah i noticed that
dim basalt
Only fights where you will prefer Arms are prob demonhunters and Fractillus, if I had to take a guess
last inlet
ii like the rotation on arms better than fury/FDK maybe ill just get good xD
rare kite
was trying to decide between FDK or arms warrior..........
easiest choice ever mate. fdk rework is so good
last inlet
but i lock my resources so often 😦
rare kite
idk maybe that is what happens. not played dk in a long time
last inlet
yeah, i only started back in recently, idk either
like in the past 3 weeks
Fury M+ lookin decent too?
rare kite
no lol
last inlet
oh wrong channel.
rare kite
fury m+ looks horrible
last inlet
ok well, maybe ill just stick with arms whole raid (not really a mythic raider so it don't matter too much)
last inlet
true
mortal crag
If ur not pushing m+ or mythic raid WR, play what u enjoy
dull siren
No
thick kelp
no
swift crown
Only fights where you will prefer Arms are prob demonhunters and Fractillus, if ...
idk why you'd play Arms on Fractillus going by current tuning
icy mulch
Sounds like we're playing S2 again, only with worse toolkit.
I was hopeful I could go straight Arms only this season.
minor gust
anything or nothing can happen till raid release
minor gust
will it be a fury tier or an arms tier dont know doesnt matter wait till patch is about to drop
icy mulch
It's Blizzard. I expect nothing good from them and their dog shit class devs.
severe haven
I think they'll just emergency bandaid tune the class again instead of doing any solid reworks
rare kite
I think they'll just emergency bandaid tune the class again instead of doing any...
i mean arms is literally getting bandaid as a tierset
dreamy sandal
It's Blizzard. I expect nothing good from them and their dog shit class devs.
It is truly incredible how utterly dogshit the warrior and rogue class attention has been this expansion
dim basalt
Isnt a bandaid what fixes the issues but in a non-preferred way?
rare kite
temporary solution that doesn't fix the root cause
icy mulch
It is truly incredible how utterly dogshit the warrior and rogue class attention...
don't worry, Paladin and DK will get 2 more reworks before the expansion is over.
dim basalt
don't worry, Paladin and DK will get 2 more reworks before the expansion is over...
Followed by another sp rework
icy mulch
dreamy sandal
don't worry, Paladin and DK will get 2 more reworks before the expansion is over...
Of course, the whole dev team started maining those classes it seems like
icy mulch
When they make the class stupidly easy to play and have amazing output, why wouldn't the majority of the player base switch?
That's not a good way to balance the game.
rare kite
easy spec to play that does good damage has been popular for a long time. before the pala rework in DF BM hunter was by far the most played class
icy mulch
The majority of players going with the path of least resistance?
Pretends to be shocked
near radish
what toy people use to prestack?
zealous flume
so, i did bandit on my arms alt and this "might" be a gear thing at this point in the tier but as our aoe damage comes to some extend from stacking CDs and spamming cleave, if the add spawn didnt align with when id want to cleavespamm, lets say this is raid progress and we arent turbo overgeared, if i wanted to do the most "useful" damage as arms, would i jsut continue pumping the boss and just popping sweeping strikes?
maybe a cleave for bleed then back on boss, lets say we are doing hmmm, mythic gallywix p1, is me going full m+ aoe rotation burst on the bomb dude and the adds best left to specs that do it better and i should just maintain boss damage with sweeping up?
i dont mind it, i was just wondering that, if played for the team, if this is a "switch dps meter to boss damage" class
(i assume that if balance is any good, if the objective was to fuck up adds constantly you would just play fury?)
dim basalt
so, i did bandit on my arms alt and this "might" be a gear thing at this point i...
Theres not a single encounter where its worth picking up aoe talents
zealous flume
thats what it felt like
dim basalt
Youre better off going full ST and making sure BS lines up with adds
Even more so on heroic
zealous flume
ok, thats what it felt like but i wasnt sure if thats due to how late it is in the tier
i mean mythic falls over rn too but yeh ok good to know
dim basalt
The only boss that changed throughout the tier is bandit, we used to play colossus for the adds there
But that was also only required if you lacked damage for adds
zealous flume
so, broadly speaking, arms logs are only moderatly meaningful on fights with big add spawns as the people doing the most damage there likely did less "progression useful" damage than people who run a 95 on boss damage?
dim basalt
On mythic you wont see lots of parses where they explicitly got to pad
Most of the numbers are achievable in a normal way actually
If not all
I got 99s on Stix without padding
zealous flume
eh mythic gally start of p2, then again, we are target capped, its bot like we can do frostmage shenaigans to the adds and get a third of our kill damage in like 3 globals there
dim basalt
Wouldve gotten a 98 or 99 on Gally without padding recently (but wipe lol)
zealous flume
ok good to know
dim basalt
Parsing comes down to having enough crit luck ngl
zealous flume
so basically, padding on arms is either annoying or inefficient enough that the default logs more or less reflect how you are supposed to play?
neat
dim basalt
And getting SD resets
dim basalt
so basically, padding on arms is either annoying or inefficient enough that the ...
Pretty much
On Gally you hold BS a bit for the p2 adds
But I wouldnt consider that padding
zealous flume
im picking up warrior for next tier and i was just wondering which numbers to look at for improvement 😄
nah those adds have to die
dim basalt
If you wanna maximize your damage you will be better off playing Fury next tier
zealous flume
padding would be playing frost blinling into melee range and dropping 2 comet storms on them back to back
dim basalt
As of current ptr balancing
zealous flume
oh really? well balancing changes but is fury like "systemically" looking better?
dim basalt
More dps, fights are Fury favored
zealous flume
i dont mind fury i just prefer arms
my main is mage and ive played fire for so long now i was sort of enjoying the lower APM of arms haha
oh well, time to play fury on the final tier of an expansion with 50% haste 😄
i enjoyed max haste corruption pillar of frost spamm in 8.3, this isnt SO different
zealous flume
More dps, fights are Fury favored
really no big execute bosses?
is the "good" fury raiding build similar to the current one? if i want to start practicing already?
zealous flume
i mean gear between fury and arms is fairly similar not a big deal to be able to play either
swift crown
Fractillus isn't an execute boss
swift crown
is the "good" fury raiding build similar to the current one? if i want to start ...
You get more Sudden Death procs and otherwise it'll be pretty similar
floral ledge
no blue post yet ):
latent moss
really no big execute bosses?
ngl even if there was one
fury rn is just
too far ahead
swift crown
no blue post yet ):
My brother in christ it's 4am blizzard time
zealous flume
yeah but is that a "dont worry about ptr balance until its the patch release version" situation or a "blizzard kinda wanting to make this a fury tier" situation
as far as one can tell
zealous flume
i mean, for example, if furys tier set was just like, way way more insane, thats like mountain thane prot tierset just actually doing nothing but that wont release that way
basically never does
swift crown
Arms was solidly better ST in S1
there were only 2 encounters where that mattered
one of them being Sikran so 1 in reality
dim basalt
Arms was solidly better ST in S1
But only after midseason buffs no?
swift crown
No
dim basalt
I kinda remember Arms being really down bad and getting a huge buff midseason
latent moss
same but i also didnt play most of it
so idk
i dont mind fury being better on st
slayer fury fucks
zealous flume
i picked up warrior like, 5 weeks ago (crazy that my guy is 683 already with 2 mythic raidboss kills total for dinar stuff), but every log ive looked at from this tier had arms ahead for boss damage
latent moss
st =/= boss damage
zealous flume
i might have just picked a weird window to look at
storm lark
I kinda remember Arms being really down bad and getting a huge buff midseason
Arms was randomly getting nerfed because they were nerfing slayer fury and so arms also got nerfed. But in ST it was always better in S1
latent moss
fury players perma complain about boss damage but what they dont understand
is that fury due to low cost of going aoe
will always go aoe
unlike arms
swift crown
I kinda remember Arms being really down bad and getting a huge buff midseason
Arms was the spec of choice on Kyveza for literally the entire length of the tier
zealous flume
But thats because we just cant do add damage
i mean doesnt fury loose like, 1 global every 5 globals to cleave? id imagine their boss damage doesnt drop much from aoing?
latent moss
it does
swift crown
Arms started out being better on Silken Court too
kinda got overtaken near the middle of the cycle with some Thane buffs for Fury
swift crown
i mean doesnt fury loose like, 1 global every 5 globals to cleave? id imagine th...
Losing 20% of your GCDs for a spec that notoriously just does the same damage per GCD for most of an encounter that's quite the large loss
swift crown
With a lower ST baseline
zealous flume
Losing 20% of your GCDs for a spec that notoriously just does the same damage pe...
actually thats true, the damage of fury is reasonably static, loosing an "average" gcd is propably a bigger deal for them then it would be for arms to like, not press a slam lol
swift crown
but also let's not pretend Thane doesn't also lose DPS for keeping up Meat Cleaver
latent moss
u do but not in cds
thane is burstier now which is cinema
never thought id say these words
latent moss
actually thats true, the damage of fury is reasonably static, loosing an "averag...
its not even reasonably static
its flat
zealous flume
ye
viral locust
Where execute
zealous flume
i like the anti melee discrimination because you need to press a "not in the single target rotation" one in 5 gcds button to cleave 5 targets, meanwhile you press ignite/barrage rotationally anyway
zealous flume
if the design even had a little parity, you would activate the cleaving with like, furious blow
swift crown
Who knew if you press a ton more execute pre-execute phase the execute phase would be a less pronounced baseline increase
viral locust
viral locust
Better
latent moss
thank massacre
zealous flume
antorus video moment
swift crown
Mage really doesn't need another niche
zealous flume
hm, is this a byproduct of whoever is designing warrior being a stingy bitch, or that whoever is designing mage loving mage too much because whirlwind is a button that also requires a talent, arcing cleave / resonance are just 2 talents, one of which you take anyway
putting two "cleaves 5 targets with the regular rotation" specs side by side but it seems the people making them have very different opinions on opportunity cost
(not speaking of ignite which is just an overpowered design and crazy that its still in the game when they are changing psychic link like every single patch)
viral locust
Ignite style bleeds when
zealous flume
careful what you ask for, last time i checked people generally hated your mastery bleed doing half your total damage and mortal strike hitting like a wet noodle
viral locust
Is insane when one class has any damage profile you'd want, lust, many aoe stops, raid buff, party barrier and like 6 defensives lol and another has virtually nothing and gets a nerf because they delete adds to quick
And yea I was joking about ignite bleeds, id rather do big hits and burst more fitting with what I feel is a warrior dps profile
zealous flume
it doesnt have spread cleave!
viral locust
Yea that's next on mage list dw
zealous flume
frost rework
viral locust
Ignite now spreads on targets 100 yards kekw
zealous flume
blizzard now a carbon copy of starfall
having played it for a year, it really only has one damage profile, it just happens to be the best one. mobile ranged damage with strong execute and ZERO opportunity cost uncapped massive cleave
that directly feeds off your ST, so your ST is always balanced at least decent
i like to imagine the guy who gets his panties in a twist every time psychic link is slightly too good or warrior cleaves too hard works in the office right next to the guy whos responsible for mages and hes getting bullied by the mage guy constantly, beat up in the parking lot, lunch money stolen
jolly goblet
how can i do m+ sims? just do patchwerk an 5 bosses or what? 😄
or just do dungeon slice?
zealous flume
you eyeball it a little, since ST damage is also important for dungeons. You sim like, 60/90 seconds 5 and 8 targets and ideally dont drop your ST dmge in the process
shadow ibex
Release date before dps war notes
weak rain
We are happy with the state of the warrior, 5% aura nerf + 20% MS/Exe/Op/Slam buff
roar now does less dmg than auto attack
gloomy violet
Hello guys i am new 🙂 I have one Question: Is 20k Haste and 20k Crit to much for my arms warrior?
rare kite
i wish critcake was here to answer that question
dim basalt
jolly goblet
is cleave always prio in trash pack? MS only when cleave are on cd?
zealous flume
Hello guys i am new 🙂 I have one Question: Is 20k Haste and 20k Crit to much fo...
there is no such thing the answer is always to sim your character
too many factors influence this
but luckily somebody build a robot online for free that can answer this for you
gloomy violet
but luckily somebody build a robot online for free that can answer this for you
thank you, i do my best with robot premium
teal fossil
Supporting robot overlords
near radish
how fast has maintenance been last few weeks NA? wagering if its bed time or not
swift crown
thank you, i do my best with robot premium
Please tell me you mean Raidbots
and not Mr. Robot premium
rare kite
holy what a throwback
shadow ibex
thats like cata days
shadow ibex
if dk can get an off gcd ability but we cant get something like focused rage
daring heron
i wish critcake was here to answer that question
stop
mellow spire
I'm striking out finding an answer on this one: I fianlly got my myth track Best-in-Slots and House of Cards. How do I manage the on-use CDs? Macro house of cards into Avatar? When am I supposed to press BiS on use? Sorry if this info is already out there.
minor gust
HOC with ava BIS with next CS
smoky kayak
hm, is this a byproduct of whoever is designing warrior being a stingy bitch, or...
are we really complaining that Fury's cleave takes 2 talent points? its an insanely low opportunity cost
if anything it probably should be higher
mellow spire
HOC with ava BIS with next CS
can I just macro it ito CS or is that trolling
teal fossil
Ya you can
mellow spire
got it, ty!
sly haven
is turbo drain 5000 good compare to HoC and pacemaker
sly haven
lmao
shadow ibex
delve shit
zealous flume
are we really complaining that Fury's cleave takes 2 talent points? its an insan...
2 talent points AND a 6th of your globals
olive nest
2 talent points for full cleave potential seems reasonable to me what is the problem?
smoky kayak
a little less since you do press things that don't eat WW charges
shadow ibex
2 talent points for full cleave potential seems reasonable to me what is the pro...
not a vacuum. also like we said a good % of your globals that feel bad (thane is p much passive cuz tclap is good)
smoky kayak
although if you really want to get into the weeds of it, Slayer doesn't actually spend that much of its time hard cleaving either
If we're talking about M+ you're almost certainly playing Thane, in which case you're pressing TC/B anyway so the argument about eating globals to enable cleave really goes out the window
shadow ibex
2 talent points for full cleave potential seems reasonable to me what is the pro...
but 15-20% of your globals when your globals dont really do much dmg already is something i can see ppl not being a fan of
smoky kayak
Clearly we need some version of Fan of Longswords for Slayer
shadow ibex
i dont play fury much so idk but i def understand it
smoky kayak
but 15-20% of your globals when your globals dont really do much dmg already is ...
you hit on the crux of it right there - damage
that's all people really care about
minor gust
reap works with WW when
shadow ibex
i have played fury a bit on prog fights and it was nice variety cuz i normally slam arms
smoky kayak
Yeah cause spamming WW sounds like great gameplay lol
it makes a lil more sense for Arms due to the rage cost balancing it out, but not so much for Fury
shadow ibex
it did feel very very flat
minor gust
Yeah cause spamming WW sounds like great gameplay lol
it makes a lil more sense ...
would be another difference for Slayer and colossus gameplay in keys
smoky kayak
Yeah but we were talking about Fury
minor gust
you think reap WW would brick fury to ww spam?
smoky kayak
for Arms, I agree (with a little extra support), it would be nice, but Arms has a rage cost to balance it out
smoky kayak
you think reap WW would brick fury to ww spam?
probably not tbh, but I don't think it's necessary regardless - BT already hits multiple targets and Reap being on BT only promotes that button (which is something sorely needed)
Fury certainly isn't lacking for reap procs either, so it just wouldn't really accomplish anything
minor gust
maybe its a change they can specifically target for arms?
olive nest
In all reality I don’t think it matters how the passive damage happens
smoky kayak
they could, and again I'm fine with that (assuming proper support), but we were talking about Fury
olive nest
It just needs to happen for people to like it
smoky kayak
In all reality I don’t think it matters how the passive damage happens
I mean that's all people really care about, they don't really care how they get it
olive nest
This spec could have “perfect design” and people would still bitch about it if it wasn’t doing busted overall damage in a key or top 3-5 in raid
olive nest
What if it was passive and always active
smoky kayak
I wouldn't hate a high level talent that made Sweep passive, but all it really needs is to be taken off the GCD again
olive nest
We had passive sweep before btw
smoky kayak
even though its only half a gcd, which is fairly invasive, it's still an unnecessary hiccup
regal wharf
I wouldn't hate a high level talent that made Sweep passive, but all it *really*...
ive barely played arms all season i forgot it was on the gcd
minor gust
This spec could have “perfect design” and people would still bitch about it if i...
tbh ppl these days dont care that much about raid performance than they do M+. Most ppl just wanna know if their spec is playable or the goto for like Arms vs Fury. its the M+ meta andys that require their spec to perform the best in the game for them to think its good "good"
smoky kayak
<:overcooked:1268341266584830096> ive barely played arms all season i forgot it ...
it is fairly minor, it's just more annoying than it needs to be
regal wharf
tbh ppl these days dont care that much about raid performance than they do M+. M...
to be fair being target capped feels like dogass
minor gust
never said it didnt
smoky kayak
to be fair being target capped feels like dogass
only because so many others aren't, it's the lack of consistency that's problematic
but yes, people are naturally jealous and covet what others have that they don't; tale as old as time really
olive nest
Fury could be one button and people would think it’s design is great as long as it’s a meta spec
minor gust
wasnt really a problem either until blizz finally changed their philosophy on allowing massive pulls again in their dungeon design
regal wharf
only because so many others aren't, it's the lack of consistency that's problema...
yeah they seem to apply it with no real rhyme or reason
like why was unholy target capped now
olive nest
I don’t get why they are so hard stuck on some classes being capped and some not
We don’t need to have niches like that when the specs play so differently to begin with
They don’t like 20 mob pulls so they add a gorillion casts to mobs and people just chain cc to be able to do it anyway
Like just give in already it’s what we like to do
olive nest
5 mobs that have abilities to think about and 15 shitter mobs that smack the tank
Is the exact same as 20 mobs with casts to think about
Because you chain cc them anyway
smoky kayak
I don’t get why they are so hard stuck on some classes being capped and some not
on some level, it's interesting when different classes/specs/builds have different capabilities - that's not a bad goal to have
the problem is that they don't balance it out very well when the gain from hitting multiple targets is dramatically more than the loss in ST (e.g. you do 40% more damage while hitting 12 targets, but only 8% less damage in ST)
and in all fairness, that's a hard target to make feel satisfying, since dungeons are built with so many varying types of combat including those ST bosses
olive nest
Imagine you brought a boomkin because it did uncapped aoe but because of that you were forced to bring a warrior or rogue because you needed the extra boss damage to make up for the lack of ST the boomkin would do
smoky kayak
it also doesn't help that player mentality pretty much always desires "more bigger pulls faster" which doubles down on the advantage of those uncapped specs
shadow ibex
their own stated goals are easier m+ dungeons
smoky kayak
Imagine you brought a boomkin because it did uncapped aoe but because of that yo...
see, theoretically that kind of is the intent, but it never really works out that way
shadow ibex
they've made them easier by design
smoky kayak
Yeah that's more about accessibility than anything else though
shadow ibex
its not a surprise player pulls are huge when they've wanted to make m+ easier this expansion
smoky kayak
get more people into dungeons by making them easier, and let the + system handle difficulty for those who want it
olive nest
The dungeons could be classic level design and people would still bring whatever does the most damage on 20 mobs at time
smoky kayak
but it also means that the meta pyramids even harder than it did before
shadow ibex
so the encounter/dungeon design just doesnt at all interact with anyone doing gameplay?
because hey we're making dungeons where 10+ targets is easy
while these guys are making 5 hard capped classes
smoky kayak
its not a surprise player pulls are huge when they've wanted to make m+ easier t...
I mean they were huge long before that too
shadow ibex
and they uncapped many classes since then
smoky kayak
because hey we're making dungeons where 10+ targets is easy
no and I think you're skipping over an important point - by making them easier, all they did is making the lower + levels more approachable
while those who were already doing the "harder" versions just moved on to higher + levels
olive nest
see, theoretically that kind of is the intent, but it never really works out tha...
I like this intent yes, but the fact that it never plays out that way is why I think they should scrap it
smoky kayak
it wans't really a major shift
smoky kayak
they were before too
shadow ibex
so if someone has a goal of giving specific target niches its lost
because the game isnt designed that way
smoky kayak
so again, that change didn't really change anything that you're talking about
we didn't start making big pulls because they made the baseline for dungeons easier
shadow ibex
if someone has that goal its silly because encounters aren't made that way