arms

[olive nest]

LOL

I crafted vers according to sim

[fresh spire]

I think my only vers is any from tier I forgot about and duskweave

[hollow plover]

reducing duration feels hella bad with downtime mechanics tho

[fresh spire]

Nah

Stacks instantly in execute doing 50% damage.

Numbers check out

[hollow plover]

if max stacks are 15

?

[fresh spire]

5

[hollow plover]

thats different

[fresh spire]

6 seconds duration. 5 stacks max. 10 a stack

[sacred zodiac]

Make jugg Stack to 2 and consumed by mortal strike and it only amps MS damage

[fresh spire]

Is what has been suggested.

[hollow plover]

I was talking current iteration just extend duration to 20

[fresh spire]

Hol up

[olive nest]

Ye I have 2x dusk, haste/vers on cloak+wrist, and Crit/vers on a ring

[fresh spire]

:sus:

Sounds alot like the other talent directly next to jug that does the exact same thing.

Extending doesn't solve the issue around ad

Sudden death*

[hollow plover]

ofc it doesnt

[fresh spire]

You will still occasionally drop it which will feel worse.

[hollow plover]

never said it would

[fresh spire]

You will still be forced to use a weakaura

[hollow plover]

its just an easy bandaid fix to make it less miserable

and u know blizz likes bandaid fixes

[olive nest]

Sudden death/juggernaut gambling is not fun

Hope they change that

[fresh spire]

Legit making it low duration less stacks stronger stacking is better than the alternate

Rotation doesn't need weakauras anymore

[hollow plover]

i want guaranteed sudden death procs

less rng

[fresh spire]

That's going to require them to change how sd functions and make slayer strikes non rng

Ain't no way blizzard wasting time to do that

[hollow plover]

exactly

[fresh spire]

Making jug shorter stack much faster and each stack being stronger will make it more powerful in keys too

[olive nest]

Keep 15 stack power, make jug go to 5 stacks, double the duration of the buff.

[fresh spire]

Bring back the good days of ms/execute just chadding keys

[olive nest]

I feel like the fix is easy

Jug should be easy to maintain if you’re actively in combat with a target, and the buff should last long enough so getting assigned mechanic isn’t annoying

[fresh spire]

Until you still don't get your sd proc in 24 seconds and it falls off feeling even worse. Lowering stacks to 5 and doubling its duration makes it counter productive as its ultimately going to make the node itself way more powerful.
Jug would function better as something you give 0 shits about until execute but moment that 35% rolls around you absolutely truck

[hollow plover]

this is highly unlikely to happen

like dummy unlikely

[fresh spire]

It can happen

[hollow plover]

ofc it can

[fresh spire]

Rng is a cruel mistress

[hollow plover]

but thats already shit and it will also be shit with ur suggested fix

its jsut shit rng

[fresh spire]

There is no rng with the suggestion given

[tacit lodge]

Guys I think this is all fixed simply if they just make us do more damage and they add a big cool explosion sound to all of our abilities, maybe even add a sick graphic of an a-10 driving by when we hit crits

[olive nest]

Or imagine it just didn’t activate until 35% but you could pre stack it and it also persisted while in combat

[fresh spire]

As its impossible go ramp sd

[tacit lodge]

Hire me blizzard

[fresh spire]

Basically how it would work with Archis suggested change

As its near impossible to stack it. Banking stacks for a second execute is a dps loss

[hollow plover]

how is it a dps loss

if you click exe the moment u get 2x SD

and then hold until end of duration

hoping for third

[olive nest]

SD procs would pre stack your jug getting you ready for execute and in execute they just act as opportunities to execute 3x between MS

Two stacks of SD just there to help prevent munching procs

[fresh spire]

Banking damage for 1 10% harder hit vs using them more cleanly with marked for execution.

[hollow plover]

nothing is preventing us using exe alongside mfe

in that case

[fresh spire]

You understand rotation becomes
Opportuni•t>Ms>execute>op>slam

[hollow plover]

i just think, depending on tuning, that it would be the same weakaura fiesta

[fresh spire]

Like you press sd in a set spot instead of when the weakaura bings

Only thing you need for the weakaura is to ping for mfe3/sd2 procs to prevent those stacks being wasted if you have giga insane rng

[olive nest]

Yep exactly

I like that idea

Atleast the sound of it

[fresh spire]

Other wise you always press sd with ms and opportunist on cd

It becomes rotational not situational

[hollow plover]

that depends on tuning

[fresh spire]

Jug ramping only equates for around 9k of sim dps if you actually follow it on average.
The main difference is if you have insane stacks leading into execute or not

[hollow plover]

that much is true

But still, there might be a world where its better to hold until 2x SD/ 3x MFE with short jugg duration

due to tuning

[olive nest]

Ngl kind of excited to see opportunist prio go away

[hollow plover]

and that world is fucking scary

[olive nest]

Op > ms feels so goofy

[hollow plover]

that would be absolute dogshit

[hollow plover]

you can talent out of it and not lose a lot of dps iirc

[olive nest]

Nah it’s easy enough to play around

Just feels goofy

[hollow plover]

im curious if theres a world where we play battlelord + fierce followthrough

[fresh spire]

Opportunist as a prio might just probs will die when we get next tier if we don't have our tier giving it 50% damage for 3 mins straiggt

[olive nest]

GAMBA!

[hollow plover]

real

[olive nest]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-burning-hell-gif-4808980

[hollow plover]

imma be real i do like opportunist

idk why

pressing OP this much also eases up on rage starve

[olive nest]

Completely reasonable to like a iteration of a spec

[hollow plover]

I dont like this iteration of arms.

mainly cuz of jugg.

i hate jugg.

I hate sudden death rng

I hate MFE

I hate slayer, honestly

but opportunist is cool

[shadow ibex]

P much

Opportunist spec tree plz

[hollow plover]

charge removing snares is cool

[shadow ibex]

Replace fatality with opp

[hollow plover]

honestly, opportunist is only this good cuz slayers malice buffs overpower

am i wrong?

[latent moss]

opp is good cause it breaks the monotony of ep gameplay

imo

[hollow plover]

fair argument

[latent moss]

ep is cool cause big number ms but it gets boring

[urban iron]

Coming up on vexie burn, have amazing sd rng, have 10 stacks and boss has one plate left

Let’sfuckinggo.jpg 🔥 🤌 🔥

I get zero procs for ages. Np i will hit a bike. Talking about this on discord.

Mfw hunter blows all his cds and shreds the bikes laughing at me.

Go into burn with no stacks. Very sad.

still beat the hunter tho

[hollow plover]

very real

[fresh spire]

Fuck hunters/mages

[hollow plover]

paladins are worse than hunters

[fresh spire]

Our paladin is chill he no padder

[hollow plover]

its not about that

the class players in general

the vast majority

awful people

[halcyon valve]

last raid night i had a pull where i didnt get any tactician resets for the first 20 seconds of the pull, worst 20 seconds of my life i swear on gog

[slow saddle]

Kek

[urban iron]

Usually they let me tank and I can send the ez dps

[weak rain]

back to fierce followthrough Kappa

[urban iron]

But sometimes I gotta dps and they love to troll me

Even in keys

Our dh will tank and just move the mobs constantly

[spiral coral]

Dh tanks are psychos

[urban iron]

He does it because he knows it’s infuriating as a warrior

[spiral coral]

10/10 gamer

[shadow ibex]

Can't wait for ptr

[shadow ibex]

You got access to raid bots?

I'm at work I wanna know how spiteful and blademaster is on like 5-8 target vs am

Nvm i forgot its am node

Dumb shit node

[hollow plover]

In outside rn

[safe island]

yees

[tacit crystal]

gz

[sacred zodiac]

just ran the numbers spiteful is +18%

[tacit crystal]

spiteful soon

[quasi torrent]

Lful

[sacred zodiac]

spiteful now and spiteful always

[tacit crystal]

meow

[quasi torrent]

yeah i just got a better tag than u

noober

[icy mulch]

Wait, why are we going spiteful now?

[teal fossil]

sims better

[sacred zodiac]

link

[teal fossil]

twitch.tv/dn

But I do recollect seeing spiteful sim like 0.2% Bette

For some ppl

[quasi torrent]

slash dn holy

[sacred zodiac]

i dont think you should slash dn

lets ask @halcyon breach

[quasi torrent]

@halcyon breach

[shadow ibex]

🤢

Wb slayer for more reap procs s

[halcyon valve]

holy shit its real, spiteful!!!

[shadow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/i-didnt-do-fucking-shit-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson-i-didnt-do-anything-i-did-jack-shit-i-did-fuck-all-gif-8193321463410745871

What evil did I put in the world

[icy mulch]

We've just been doing it wrong this whole time with AM? Something seems off here....

[halcyon breach]

@quasi torrent@sacred zodiacyou are both banned perma

[tacit crystal]

what are you simming also what does it sim in st

[quasi torrent]

please

[icy mulch]

Ok, I'll bite. Let me see the talent setup and the link to the actual sim.

[sacred zodiac]

No

[shadow ibex]

Negative st

[icy mulch]

God damn trolls

[olive nest]

I will not be using spiteful

You cannot make me!

[hexed snow]

I will

[olive nest]

-150k in ST

Yall wildin

[hexed snow]

i accept defeat

[icy mulch]

I'm calling troll. Until I see the actual sim and talent build.

[hexed snow]

it is ze troll

[atomic shoal]

is there any point tracking overpower stacks ?

like should i just be throwing out mortal strikes or is it worth getting 2 stacks first

and also what is worth tracking generally

[hollow plover]

Not thaaat important but it helps in exe phase if u get a lot of opportunist stacks

[hollow plover]

SD conditions weakaura
Juggernaut
Rend
Sweeping Strikes
Opportunist(!!!!!)
(Marked for execution)

[atomic shoal]

cool

thanks

[hollow plover]

You can track cs and ava too but it doesn’t change gameplay much

[hollow plover]

I heavily recommend getting the weakauras in #dps-faq

[steady mesa]

Is there a way to get an opportunist weakaura to display as soon as it procs? The buff comes about 1s after the proc and its throwing off my UI.

i know the blizz UI shows it immediately...

[hollow plover]

The no delay opport weakaura is in #dps-faq

[steady mesa]

awesome, thank you!

[atomic shoal]

oppertunist is just reset cd on overpower right?

[steady mesa]

in Slayer, it gives a buff and changes the priority.

[hollow plover]

Yes but it changes your gameplay cuz it buffs overpower a LOT

[atomic shoal]

i see

[hollow plover]

Opportunist overpower is higher prio than mortal strike

[atomic shoal]

even if you are overcapping?

[hollow plover]

Yes

[atomic shoal]

i see

[hollow plover]

There might be some merit in forcing ms while capped on rage but no just send opportunist

[atomic shoal]

is arms pretty simple then

proc = shoot

[hollow plover]

In exe phase the prio is
Ms with 2x execute > opportunist > exe > overpower

[hollow plover]

Kind of but not really

Cuz if EB procs and Opportunist procs you click overpower first

[atomic shoal]

i see

[hollow plover]

Just remember to not press execute the moment it lights up with a sudden death proc

Listen to SD conditions

Maximize juggernaut and marked for execution

[spiral coral]

2025 waiting on a cha ching to press a button

[atomic shoal]

📝

how big is the dps loss using thunderclap to apply rend instead of just pressing rend

[spiral coral]

If you want to be optimal you rend on st or tc on aoe, not a big enough difference to really matter and most have just macro’d rend into tc to save a keybind

I don’t use the macro for it tho

[dim basalt]

Same

We don't have that many buttons to press

[atomic shoal]

how do you macro them together?

or is it just a modifier

[dim basalt]

There's a "known" modifier that let's you do that

Not exactly sure how it works but pretty sure you can google it and find a similar result

[spiral coral]

I’m sure someone will answer you soon @atomic shoal I’ve seen it here a lot but it’s just not posted anywhere I don’t think

[shadow ibex]

P sure it makes you heal the boss

[olive nest]

If MS is already buffed by 2 martial prowess stacks (buff from overpower) it’s actually correct to MS before consuming the Opportunist proc

[slow saddle]

100%

But arms isnt hard. But juggernaut stacks suck to play around

[olive nest]

Sudden death if any condition met
MS with 2x MP
Opportunist
MS
Overpower
Refresh rend pandemic
Slam

Easy way to think about it

[shadow ibex]

JUG

[unreal mountain]

i ried out Slayer Arms with serenity and only EP no Juggernaut. It was blasting in Single and AOE

simmed better then with Anger management

[thick kelp]

mhm

[shadow ibex]

X

[fresh spire]

I was testing spiteful. For it to even match the damage am gives it has to be -20 not -40. Including then that cooldown reduction has the added bonus for being way more flexible. Spiteful needs serious help lol

Lost 2 bladestorms too

[atomic shoal]

i thought so

[atomic shoal]

what does any condition met mean

only use it when procs/buffs line up?

[olive nest]

Sudden death has multiple conditions

• 2 charges of sudden death available
• 3 stacks of marked for execution
• juggernaut buff is 2 seconds from expiring

[atomic shoal]

alright

[olive nest]

If any of those are met SD is highest priority

[atomic shoal]

similar to ravage with bear

im coming from guardian druid so

any similar mechanics good

[olive nest]

There is a weakaura in the dps faq

It will go “kaching” in your ear whenever it is correct to cast SD immediately

[atomic shoal]

cool

[slow saddle]

well tbh weakaura send a bit early at times 😄

u can hold it 1 or even 2 gcds longer at times

risky though

[shadow ibex]

Have you considered I'm not spending rage anyway

[olive nest]

Yeah it kaching at 2 seconds

[slow saddle]

i think mine kachinsgs at 3

hm

[olive nest]

That might be true actually

[slow saddle]

dont matter though it alerts me that its about time

and i can look and c if i wanna hold

tbh i also sometimes hold 2 stacks even though i know it makes no sense

[fresh spire]

weakaura is set to 3 as is more comfy to do it, when its set to 2 if you fumble the GCD its dead, just more of a warning, was same for sims, as much as 1 gcd would have been optimal it's unrealistic for a human to do it

[slow saddle]

i feel like i get luck

y

yeah im holding until last sec when i can

but i feel like this

i play it like a god

[olive nest]

Cone smart man

[slow saddle]

just dont get procs

i send em Willy nilly i get rewarded with more procs ...

mby thats just my luck

or ye when SD actually negatively affects AM

😄

i love it

[olive nest]

Multiple reclear pulls where I get 15 stacks of jug before execute and then drop them right at 36-38%

Really.. thanks blizzard

[slow saddle]

yeah

i mean even sitting on just 10 stacks into execute is nice

but as u said most often it teases u all the way to 36

and u go I GOT THIS

and then no

rip

😭

[shadow ibex]

Fuck jug

[slow saddle]

as said, it works on collosus

not on slayer

so like either slayer has to go, or juggernaut ( slayer kan die only 1 way, by buffing Col to be better in single target, ) ideally

[olive nest]

I think the hero talents are here to stay

So buckle up and enjoy the ride

[shadow ibex]

Die heroes

Every hero needs a villain

[boreal quartz]

incredible gassy

[dark hamlet]

Real quick, I'm just getting back into Warrior and Slayer seems like it's literally just Rogue's main gauche. (I might be stupid though so correct me if I'm wrong.)

Eli5 why we hate it

[dreamy sandal]

A question bois, when playing both Best-in-slots and House of cards, which one do i primarily use with my cds?

[astral yarrow]

which one of those will always align with avatar

[dreamy sandal]

House of cards usually do perfectly

Best-in-slots is 2 mins though, so it does not align perfectly with avatar

[astral yarrow]

so theres your answer

look at BIS as a bonus

[dreamy sandal]

Aight cool, ty

[astral yarrow]

just send that with next reck if fury and next cs if arms

[dreamy sandal]

yeah makes sense

[astral yarrow]

if you're ever in doubt, you can just look at when its used in a sim ability sequence breakdown

[dreamy sandal]

Ah! Will do that, never thought about it

Just been seing people lining up BiS and cds and assumed BiS was somehow better if used first

but just looking at the starts House of cards is just straight up more stats

[astral yarrow]

it also has a stacking mechanic, but thats not that relevant at this point as bosses die so fast

it also might just be people not using HoC, as kezan/locknstalk/floodgate trinkets are competetive

[dreamy sandal]

Makes sense, very good for m+ though

[astral yarrow]

and 30 of 36 specs or some shit want house of cards

[dim basalt]

Trinkets in general were pretty bad this season

[atomic shoal]

pretty sure every healer in the game wante mr pickmeup aswell

trinkets suck

[shadow ibex]

dungeon trinkets are what the fuck this whole expac

remnant of darkness

[rigid dune]

if you don't play Executioner's Precision, is the execute rotation just a cycle between overpower and execute?

[minor gust]

execute would just be a slam replacement

[rigid dune]

oh, ok

[visual fern]

Yah its just slam ms and op to reset more ms

Err, spam MS

[gaunt owl]

MS on CD

[minor gust]

the legendary age old advice

cant wait to unlearn it for MOP arms

[rustic merlin]

how do you choose between slayer and colossus? Guessing colossus when you’re going against 2 melees and cleaving and everything else slayer?

[minor gust]

is this pvp?

[rustic merlin]

yeah

arena

[minor gust]

https://discord.com/channels/148872210742771712/897055819475091456

[rustic merlin]

ah damn

my b

[minor gust]

you good

[dim basalt]

The only content where Slayer doesnt feel bad

[hollow plover]

imagine if pvp slayer had to maximize jugg

[thorny mason]

what is the prio in execute with the m+ spec colossus without executioner's precision ? do you just exec at 40+ rage and never ms?

[dim basalt]

Exe replaces slam, thats it

So you press it almost never

[thorny mason]

because on wowhead it mentions ms only with 2x exec precision

[dim basalt]

Yeah

That condition just doesnt exist without EP

[thorny mason]

ok so it's still ms overpower exec in prio

[dim basalt]

yup

[thorny mason]

thank you !

[plain heron]

@tacit crystal

[untold pewter]

Man kinda wish they made colossus good for ST for next tier (at least 1 tier out of 3)

[rare kite]

It's not even that far behind slayer right now iirc

[minor gust]

yeah its not that far behind

can very much play it for fun to take a break from slayer especially if your on farm

ive swapped to Blord slayer/No Jugg for the shorter fights

[astral yarrow]

just high roll :))))))

[minor gust]

Just Crit bro

[inner wasp]

aight so

i was told u dont wanna use ur overpower stacks on MS in aoe

because ur doing cleave -> ms -> op

but this happens sometimes

im gonna press op, and then ms is gonna come off cd first

so id be using it on ms

[sick leaf]

I would send MS personally, I don’t know if that’s the technical answer, but I would choose cleave if they were both an option, but I wouldn’t hold ms for cleave

[shadow ibex]

getting demo back is more important than MP stacks

[inner wasp]

i feel like in the aoe build my cds dont rly line up

[shadow ibex]

like 99% sure aoe apl doesnt even contain martial prowess

[inner wasp]

like at all

colo m+ build that is

[shadow ibex]

demo and WB dont but do

avatr is 20 sec so even if it doesnt line up you can use it early and it will still cover a WB window 10 seconds away

[spiral coral]

It’s not going to be perfect prio everytime, you find the prio on what’s currently up

[inner wasp]

like what do i do if i only have wb and ravager up? just send them?

[shadow ibex]

yes

[spiral coral]

Imo you’ve asked a lot of questions that will be just solved by playing the spec longer

[shadow ibex]

they will get demo back

ravager gives u cleave dmg

[inner wasp]

this is what i do yea

[shadow ibex]

no reason to hold anything with AM

[nova ivy]

guys how do I use BiSs with an on-use trinket? Killed M Bandit and got me both House of Cards and the mace but they share a cooldown

[spiral coral]

You get the spec bro, stop sweating the small stuff. I believe you’re playing the class right by your questions.

[inner wasp]

yea im goated

but i like learning the tiny things because it lets me have a god complex over the average warrior brain who wont bother

[shadow ibex]

ravager casts MS for u and iftk gives u haste if u have 0 cds but ravager and WB u will get demolish back in like 4 seconds with those buttons

i mean you have 3 buttons to press there isn't much u can really do

cleave MS OP

[spiral coral]

Yeah slam and exe don’t exist

I’ve been expecting a super out of nowhere super stupid buff to warrior to round out the season

Like buff sidearm by 75% lol

[shadow ibex]

probably just shouldnt exist

that far down the tree for like a .2% increase

[spiral coral]

SKS buff

[inner wasp]

when do i stop pressing cleave

below 5 targets w/ ss up below 3 without?

[rare kite]

1 target

[inner wasp]

sus

[shadow ibex]

It's true

Ms OP slam in ST

Add cleave when more than 1 target is in range

[carmine fractal]

im never stepping into a vision again lol

[spiral coral]

how

[weak rain]

Motivating shout

[arctic iris]

The wording there is a little strange, I can't tell if they're seeing they're considering a battle res, or if they think a battle res is silly so they're looking at other options

It's also baffling that they say we have a good amount of tools when we have so little that we only barely clear the low, low bar of using the plural "tools"

[minor gust]

I mean we do have a lot of tools that is just the truth

their just not all useful

[arctic iris]

I want them to give us an ability that's sort of like a reverse death grip, where we pick up an enemy and throw them to the target location

So that I can throw mobs behind my tank and get him killed

[latent moss]

battle cry

ah brez

thought it was lust for some reason

[latent moss]

aoe interrupt mass spell reflect group dr banner or something

something unique

safeguard

[arctic iris]

I don't think they can do mass spell reflect again without getting rid of the thing that makes spell reflect cool, which is that it occasionally lets you negate significant mechanics

It's fine if a warrior can negate something on themselves if it happens to target them, it's probably a lot less fine if they can negate it on the whole group

I would rather have spell reflect be more like shadowlands season 1 where you can ignore a ton of stuff than get mass reflect and have it barely work on anything

We've seen what happens when an ability negates too many group mechanics; poison cleansing totem and mass dispel got nuked from orbit

[rare kite]

what's that from

[minor gust]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/morgan-day-talks-dps-rankings-with-chinese-dps-competition-commentary-and-q-a-377263?utm_source=discord-webhook

[rare kite]

"despite the core class being fine"

[minor gust]

better be some ultra cooked 10/10 tier set next tier

[nova marsh]

"The core class is fine" LMAO

[sudden fox]

To be fair, it’s still more ‘fine’ than rogue is. That’s a shit show

I hope they cook with 11.2

[slow saddle]

Next tier = u can hold 4 sd charges

Also slayer strike procs backwards

[slow saddle]

Any belt sims up for us so far?

[thick kelp]

Not good till max upgraded/near max upgraded

[slow saddle]

ok

well it will be set to an amount where it good

im guessing the versa one will be good on fury ?

[thick kelp]

probably

archi will soon release a bigger post going over all the upgrades etc

[slow saddle]

ok

[wind lotus]

How many targets counts as multi-target to use cleave over the ST rotation?

[hollow plover]

3

[wind lotus]

thx. Separate q - if avatar, col smash, or demolish get out of sync, how long should I hold any of them?

[hollow plover]

Usually I'd say no more than like 5-6 actual seconds (accounting for AM and colossal might cdr) but it's never this simple.

If you feel that it's absolutely worth holding in that spot then hold

cuz it depends on target amount

and if they die before u can use all cds

or similar

or take the last few packs in rookery, they each have fast dying lads and they have big hp targets. You can hold a tiny bit to ensure more dps on the big boys but then you have a small pp on the dps meter cuz you aren't padding on the small trash

[wind lotus]

That makes sense

[dim basalt]

Cope

Every rogue spec is in a much better state than any warrior spec

Not necessarily in a good state but by far better

[wind lotus]

I think I'm doing something wrong systemically but I can't for the life figure it out because AFAIK I'm following the rotation guide correctly

[tacit crystal]

do you have a log

[hollow plover]

explain the opener and rotation in your own words

[slow saddle]

press cleave as much as possible !!

done

get big col send big col make big col crit. it not crit cry

[wind lotus]

ST: TC -> thund roar -> MS -> Col Smash+Avatar -> Demolish -> MS.
MT: TC -> Thund roar -> SS -> ravager -> cleave -> col smash+avatar -> demolish -> cleave

I hate cleave lol it's the least satisfying button but that's an aside

[wind lotus]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BTFmJpc8aPwq2v1X?fight=last&type=damage-done

[hollow plover]

ravager enables the most aoe out of any of your cooldowns, you should not use it this early

also where did u get this opener from

this doesnt account for cleave resets and nothing

[wind lotus]

wowhead I read it again the other day

[hollow plover]

this is the wowhead opener

Ravager is the cooldown that gives you the most cleave dmg amp

dont use it as early as you mentioned earlier*

and cleave early to apply deep wounds to targets, thats a flat damage increase on every single following ability

[sudden fox]

Tell that to fatebound which hasnt been used once all expansion and deathmark interactions lol

[hollow plover]

some bosses have minor fatebound representation, like mythic gallywix for example

but yea that hero talent tree needs changes

[sudden fox]

Its like non existent basically

Insanely niche

[hollow plover]

yea

[dim basalt]

Just because a hero spec is not played at all it doesn't mean the class overall is in a worse state?

Rogues at least have functioning talent trees

[rare kite]

i mean comparing something that doesn't see play to something that sees play but ruins the spec(juggernaut)

i'd rather have something that doesn't see play

[dim basalt]

And better weaknesses / strengths

[wind lotus]

I can try that. Thank you

[hollow plover]

i heavily recommend reading merciless bonegrinder again and really really clicking cleave as much as possible during that window

[sudden fox]

Hence why i mentioned deathmark lol, you lose it at any point you cant reapply for 2 mins and can only be done from stealth vis ambush

Its insanely cringe

Just different

[rare kite]

i think i'd rather have that honestly

[sudden fox]

Playing around it on M Silken Court you probably wouldnt say that haha

[rare kite]

don't get me wrong, that sounds shit as well. but man dropping 15 stacks of juggernaut at 36% is something else

[sudden fox]

Yeah its straight ass

Managed to get 15 stacks super early on my gally reclear and then just dropped and couldnt maintain again lol

[rare kite]

thankfully i only play arms on mugzee. the only fight where it's just better for prog imo

the rest you can play whatever or fury is better

[sudden fox]

I prefer arms so I only play it now after prog

[slow saddle]

Ngl slayer sucks

If u play col i get it

Its fun in raid

[dim basalt]

I played Arms on every fight

[naive sage]

From my pov both hero trees suck

Slayer is an unfinished mess and colossus is disappointing and maybe more fitting for fury thematically

In my opinion ofc

[slow saddle]

I mean col in raid is fine

Esp if they buffed bleed + sks to be worthwwhile

Then col could be sks

Slayer could go die

Slayer with no juggernaut + ravager is quite fun

[spiral coral]

You’re gonna upset a lot of people saying this

[slow saddle]

I know

[dim basalt]

Fix SKS and I'm fine with it

[spiral coral]

I was just saying that they were gonna do some dumb shit and buff sks right before the end of season too lol

[slow saddle]

Old sks was awesome

And dk has that now

And no dk complains😅

[spiral coral]

Yeah exactly:(

[slow saddle]

I want that big sks

To focus dmg

To send in dmg phases

[spiral coral]

Idk I hated that, and I felt like a dk

[slow saddle]

In m+ it was good

As.mobs often died

In raid i didnt play

Coz dmg difference was small

And thats ideal tuning in gen. But having to sks as col would be fine

Demo into big sks super bleed😅🤣

[shadow ibex]

Fuck sks

pressing rend multiple times during lust

[slow saddle]

Meh

Replace 1 of the slams

With a rend

Every ms + adds 3 sec to rend

Col talent

[spiral coral]

thank you

[shadow ibex]

Let bleeds die since they gutted them anyway

I would like tr to get replaced with AA but never happening as long as demo exists

[slow saddle]

Yes aa stuns mobs so we can hit em with demo

[strange perch]

@tacit crystal PLEASE I NEED YOU

[inner wasp]

even with ss up? ok i trust

[wind flicker]

Guys

Is there a bug with SS?

I seem to sometimes lose SS seconds

Like avatar before / after stuff maybe?

My ss is getting overwritten by avatar proc

Like dafuck

[shadow ibex]

Yea

You have to use real first

Then avatar

[shadow ibex]

Read fervor of battle

You will auto slam at 2t no reason to press anything but ms cleave and OP

[daring heron]

afaik ss into ava works fine

you probably lose ss because you pulled a boss

[inner wasp]

oic

[daring heron]

because blizz for some reason made ss disappear on boss pull

[wind flicker]

does that ovverite?

[daring heron]

when you pull a boss, any ss buff you have active disappears

[wind flicker]

Thats so dumb

ToP first boss

keeps screwing me

[native tendon]

Should I be tracking tier procs? And how good is analyzer page for arms?

[slow saddle]

Nah fuck tier procs

Dno bout analyzer. Never spend that much time

From a dmg perspective just practice rotation, and once u get good, parse gets good

And if its cd usage in fights i just lorrgs

[dim basalt]

wowa should be okay-ish

It got some updates this patch but not sure how finalized it is

[strange perch]

in aoe should I proritize cleave or mortal strike ?

[slow saddle]

I dno what u learn but ppl are different

[strange perch]

when its off the buff from cleave strike

[slow saddle]

+3 CLEAVE

[strange perch]

so always cleave

ok

[slow saddle]

Well u still ms

A lot

[shadow ibex]

You use whatever isn't on cooldown

[hollow plover]

bowwl actually updated a lot for arms, it's crazy how accurate it is nowadays

wowa is pretty solid

better for arms than fury for sure

[native tendon]

Damn, means I suck a lot 😄

[hollow plover]

hey mate if you want to talk more detail on arms improvement, head over to #1347646810457636974 and post something

but something you need to know: Wowa is optimized for raid combat, primarily single target

its not accurate for m+

[native tendon]

Yes, was using it for our HC fights. Will do with log review, thanks a milion

[pearl jasper]

Is arms okay to play on mythic gally? I know top logs are fury but assuming thats with a lot of add damage

[dim basalt]

Has awkward timings sometimes but otherwise its fine

[pearl jasper]

Ah okay, just wondering if fury was there as an add killer or for another reason. Thank you

[dim basalt]

Fury is an add killer on that fight yeah

Which die within seconds at this point anyway

So mostly padding now

[pearl jasper]

Exactly, thats what im thinking. If arms actually does more boss damage overall just to get the thing dead

[slow saddle]

Add killer and almost same boss dmg

[slow saddle]

Dont think arms does that much more boss dmg, than if u just send all cds on boss as fury

[hollow plover]

while definitely true, i kinda feel like one of the painpoints of p2 p3 gallywix is not being able to kill the adds in time with some people dead

so fury is kinda nice for that

[dim basalt]

Tell them to not die

[hollow plover]

u know its not that simple during prog

[dim basalt]

Depends on boss tbh

[hollow plover]

well im talking gally mythic

[dim basalt]

Dying on Gally is hard grief

[hollow plover]

i agree

[dim basalt]

Unless you do bombs

[hollow plover]

but it happens

[shadow ibex]

For prog fury would be better imo

Adds only thing to wipe

[vast helm]

fuck i thought that was some of my marco did.

[pearl jasper]

noted, thanks

[slow saddle]

But test and c brother😄

[inner wasp]

if i play arms now am i supposed to care about pvp

how do i learn pvp 🥺

[dim basalt]

Play pvp, thats how you learn it

[thick kelp]

q up, do pve opener on enemy -> win round

[dim basalt]

meet frost mage -> rq

[thick kelp]

any mage

or deva evoker

[dim basalt]

nah

dev I agree

[thick kelp]

Fire is fine

but arcane or frost is

[dim basalt]

aug can be pretty stupid too

[thick kelp]

gbless no one plays aug in ss

[dim basalt]

Last thing you can be prepared for is an upheaval that hits you for 8M+

[shadow ibex]

Playing arms v frost mage unironically most fun you can have in 2s

You have an answer for most things and so do they

[dim basalt]

2s maybe

In 3s it is just miserable

[inner wasp]

i wanna learn 2s maybe

it sounds like the most fun but idk

maybe im just a rbg andy

[untold pewter]

Blizz said they want to give warrior utility
Time to jump on the forums begging for this:
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxPqg0pHIeYi-WuIla0z2ev8c9kI0NJ81V?si=qcdLqunhf72tiBpz

[shadow ibex]

Oh it's awful in 2s too

Rogue mage 2s

But when you win it feels so good. Bladestorming cc intervening cheap shots disarming goes

We really just need spear to be a ursol tether

There's no reason it has to be unique to druids

Idk it's very weird that the master of the field of battle class is completely unable to affect the field of battle

[smoky kayak]

ironically, SoD War has a hook, but I think it's pretty unlikely that Blizz expands Death Grip to more classes

they toyed with a grip-like mechanic on Heroic Leap during TWW development, but I don't think they're keen to revisit it

[untold pewter]

It's so damn sad...
I'd consider this to be something closer to a ring of peace rather than an actual grip (in the sense that it could be very short distance, like a shockwave's length, for example)

[smoky kayak]

my vote is still on just making Spear into an off-GCD utility tether, giving us an ability to hold mobs in place without cycling stuns is a useful and semi-unique capability that not a lot of classes have

[untold pewter]

I think spear being a better ursol is nice but Prot warrior having absolutely 0 tools to position mobs, for example, is pretty damn sad in my opinion

Our best bet is line of sight to get things to walk

[smoky kayak]

tbf they're not really alone in that

[untold pewter]

For sure

[shadow ibex]

They should probably give them aoe shout kick for free

[smoky kayak]

I do think it's a bit of a two-fold problem, the whole mobs insta-recasting thing also contributes to it

[shadow ibex]

Idk feels weird having to talent into utility as prot in the spec tree when a DK just has grip base. Avenger just silences as part of the ability

[smoky kayak]

there's certainly a "fairness" aspect to it, but I think it's more important to focus on the final product, before worrying about how everyone gets there

[shadow ibex]

Spear tether just seems like such an obvious and easy addition

It's not like anyone actually enjoys it as a dps cooldown. Anytime it's meta it's used despite how it feels not because

[weak wave]

What? I played sod warrior. Never saw anything like this

[smoky kayak]

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=226403/handbook-of-meathook

added in Phase 4, I believe

[shadow ibex]

I hope they change their mind about adds not being able to be gripped and all that

[untold pewter]

If it were a shockwave-lenght cone grip I think it'd not step on DK territory either
Probably would feel closer to a ROP (when cast to knock things towards you) but in a cone

[smoky kayak]

hard part is rearranging the tree for it - needs to go higher up so there's not as much of an opportunity cost in taking it, which means pushing something else out

and then also putting something new in Spear's current position (Condemn cluster 🤞)

[smoky kayak]

they tried that with Heroic Leap, didn't last long

[untold pewter]

But heroic leap was absymal...

[shadow ibex]

There's so much vestigal nonsense in our tree imo

Honed reflexs

[untold pewter]

That one was really painful to use imo

[shadow ibex]

Whatever that thing is called

[smoky kayak]

issue is that it just becomes a half assed version of grip, and you'd pretty much just always prefer Grip instead

[shadow ibex]

Sidearm

[slow saddle]

How should condemn work then?

[smoky kayak]

Sidearm isn't a problem, it's just another flavor of +damage

[untold pewter]

Well 100% but like at least it's something, I'd take it

[slow saddle]

I mean our execute rotation is my fav rotation

[smoky kayak]

Idk, there are a lot of ideas that could be tossed around, but I think you have the basic Condemn effect of "execute can be used from 100-80%" as the main talent, followed by a couple capstones that tweak it further

• One would probably be some kind of generic +damage (maybe it makes Condemn deal shadow damage, just for the sake of flavor)
• the other would probably be a minor additional effect, like Words or Might are

I'm not super worried about the specifics at this point, I just think the general idea of Condemn as a talent cluster competing against Roar would be a fun idea; not the least of which because it's a more passive option rather than yet another active ability

[teal fossil]

Condemn creates too much issues to be worth maintaining imo

[slow saddle]

Also fuck roar🤣

[inner wasp]

i love condemn

im #1 condemn enjoyer

[slow saddle]

Condemn + the juggernaut changes archie suggested

[weak wave]

Wow. Crazy

[slow saddle]

For real also means warrior doenst get shafted when bl pull is what u do

[outer forge]

Hearing them say battle rez for warrior made my eyes roll so bad.

[inner wasp]

what did archi suggest for jug?

[smoky kayak]

it's not as great as it sounds; has kind of travel time, it's on the GCD, and a 35s CD
but it's not bad, nice for yoinking in the occasional caster

[outer forge]

Seems like it’d be so easy to give us a lust in arms and fury tree

[smoky kayak]

If you're talking about Morgan's comments, he was joking

[inner wasp]

anyways blizz joked about giving warrior a brez, which basically means its confirmed

[outer forge]

Thank god lol

[inner wasp]

get ready to riot if they dont add it

[outer forge]

I heard it out of context

[smoky kayak]

he even said "it's a funny idea but how would that even work, you just shout at them until they get back up? laughs"

[inner wasp]

yes!

[outer forge]

Phew. Okay

[slow saddle]

Jugger naut 5 stscks and or 5sec cd

[dim basalt]

Leave the or

Only 5 seconds duration would feel horrible

[slow saddle]

Nah?

6 seconds then

[dim basalt]

I mean if still 15 stacks

[slow saddle]

Point is not having to hold it

5 stacks 6 sec

[smoky kayak]

that was my suggestion yes, reduce Juggernaut to 5 stacks and a ~6s duration (while increasing the damage per stack to compensate), making it functionally impossible to sustain through Sudden Death

while that does also make it worse for some fights with a lot of potential downtime during Execute, I don't think that's necessarily a problem, since it means we have more reason to swap to Battlelord or Colossus for some fights

you think about it right now, Slayer Juggernaut is too universal - it's good for Execute fights, it's good for not-execute fights; and as much as I may enjoy the build, I think that's a design failure when there's so little build variety

[inner wasp]

i might be the only one in the world who wants it to stack up to 99 again

and thats ok

[smoky kayak]

you are

it's one of those things that looks awesome in highlight reels but sucks day-to-day

[teal fossil]

And funkykitty

[slow saddle]

Will im all for it

[smoky kayak]

funkykitty isn't a real person

[teal fossil]

And everyone else who’s ever watched the legion video

[slow saddle]

If we arent tuned around it

[inner wasp]

the execute video has done immeasurable damage to the warrior psyche

its me, im the warrior psyche

[nova marsh]

oh so you're our shared braincell

[slow saddle]

Well consider condemn means

Pi target on pull

🤣

[nova marsh]

I think condemm would unironically make jugg kind of....okay?

[untold trench]

Ouch

[nova marsh]

You'd signifcantly reduce the RNG portion

[teal fossil]

How does that have anything to do with jugg

[slow saddle]

Not current jugger

But a revised version yes

[teal fossil]

Doesn’t solve the problem of walking into 35% with 0 or 15 stacks

[nova marsh]

It dosen't solve it

[smoky kayak]

Well frankly PI should be removed but I am aware that my Condemn idea does create some additional problems for Juggernaut

That said, I don't think they're mutually exclusive - there are ways to address it, even if they're as hamfisted as giving Juggernaut reduced value when used with Condemn

[nova marsh]

But having essentially a second execute would mean you have less range to carry it

[inner wasp]

how bad of an idea is it to have a sound cue play when my current target hits execute %?

[nova marsh]

Idk maybe I'm crazy, still think jugg should be shut

[inner wasp]

would that get obnoxious quickly

it might

[slow saddle]

Delete it

[nova marsh]

yes

Absoutlely

[smoky kayak]

as long as the target doesn't heal, probably not an issue - I'd probably only have it enabled in raids though, not M+
or only on targets >L81

[inner wasp]

tbh im missing the start of execute in all content

might just be cuz ive been playing prot all tier tho and havent been focusing on it too hard

[smoky kayak]

could go with some kind of glow instead of a noise

I think the noise firing constantly in M+ could get obnoxious, but that's really your call

[inner wasp]

no it would

for sure

[smoky kayak]

also you don't really focus Execute in M+ atm, so I don't think you'd need it for trash mobs anyway

[inner wasp]

ive been wondering how i should handle execute on aoe

surely its worth pressing when smth is about to die

not over cleave, i guess

[dim basalt]

Just slam replacement

[inner wasp]

damn u even prio op over it?

[dim basalt]

You prio anything over exe as col in m+

exe does absolutely nothing without investment

[inner wasp]

what about in st exe phase? ive been making sure i have 2 EP stacks before pressing ms

[slow saddle]

Wait

U play ep?

[dim basalt]

If you play EP then you press exe yeah

[inner wasp]

archi tells me to on wowhead

💔

[dim basalt]

Theres an alternative build that does tiny bit less ST but more aoe

[slow saddle]

Archie lies take 2 x bleed

Pressin exe ends up starved 2 often

[inner wasp]

yea i was starving a little

[dim basalt]

Not having SD sucks when you play EP

[inner wasp]

so what am i dropping EP for

bloodborne?

[dim basalt]

2x BB

[inner wasp]

EP is 1 pt tho whats the other pt

[dim basalt]

Can also put one point into BS

[nova marsh]

Bloodborne 2 when

[slow saddle]

Massacre?

[inner wasp]

not taken

[stable fiber]

massacre is bad

in m+ build

[nova marsh]

massacure should just be baseline still

[smoky kayak]

so funny enough, this actually made me rage starve more often

Finishing Blow still gives a lot of rage

[inner wasp]

did u starve thru pressing slam or smth

[dim basalt]

All my homies take BS

[smoky kayak]

you get Exil streaks

[inner wasp]

nvm not taking EP doesnt take away execute

im dumb lmao

[inner wasp]

but im already not thinking abt rage

cuz im grossly overcapped

[dim basalt]

Then BB is the way

[inner wasp]

i still only have 1 pt in BB not 2

EP is only 1 pt

[nova marsh]

Guys

do you think demolish could crash a laptop?

[inner wasp]

????

[untold trench]

A really bad one, maybe?

[dim basalt]

You dont need FB without EP

[inner wasp]

wats FB

[dim basalt]

Finishing Blows

[inner wasp]

O

archi said u starve without fb tho idk

i need a certified smart person to tell me what to think once and for all

[smoky kayak]

I said in my experience that I found myself starving more without FB

[inner wasp]

ur experience is more valueable than mine

[smoky kayak]

yes, using Execute w/ EP will starve you, but you're not always using Execute just cause the target is <20%
and you do have the benefit of knowing that when you're pressing Execute, you're going to have less rage, so it is somewhat predictable

[slow saddle]

Ah so fb + 20% ah ok

[inner wasp]

i was going back to the standard execute execute op ms rotation i knew from the before times™️

it kinda kept me from starving

but idk if its right

[slow saddle]

Thought it was massacre + ep

[smoky kayak]

but we're talking like a <1% optimization in M+, so you can really do w/e you like

• some people like EP, I think its well rounded
• some people like 2x Bloodborne for more AoE, I didn't like dry streaks but that doesn't mean it's bad just not my preference
• some people like 1x Bloodborne, 1x Bloodsurge for rage, which is fine too

[slow saddle]

I do last 1 if no shammy

If shammy 2 x bb

[inner wasp]

im thinking i like execute so ill keep EP 💔

i dont wanna be incentivized to press it less than i already do

[slow saddle]

Means less ms

[smoky kayak]

if you're not playing Novix keys, I really don't think it matters

just play w/e you find satisfying, and don't worry so much about hypotheticals

[inner wasp]

i wonder what utility blizz might give us

please just give us lust idk

[smoky kayak]

Lust is a popular suggestion, but I really think it does more to incentivize Prot than Arms/Fury, and don't think they want to give it to a tank regardless

[inner wasp]

im more than fine with giving a tank lust

[smoky kayak]

you are, blizz isn't

[inner wasp]

blizz doesnt want pwar to have lust but they're ok with ppal being able to solo kick entire keys and blood dk having a monopoly on enemy positioning

make it make sense!

[hollow plover]

im curious why that would become problematic

some tanks have a BR as well

[slow saddle]

Coz pugs think lust is mandatory in 6s

Just make drums 25%

[teal fossil]

Lust is mandatory when I have to solo carry 3 alts

[shadow ibex]

Even when playing ep I think you still send ms and if it has ep cool if not cool

[shadow ibex]

It does feel like we have been fighting tooth and nail just for parity

I really need blizzard to explain why any group should invite a warrior. Objectively, what does it bring to a 5man. What they think makes it an attractive class.

[candid pecan]

I'd rather they tune war dps so its INSANE in keys, so ppl invite us for dmg

im talking cleave/demolish/bleed buffs

[smoky kayak]

good luck

[smoky kayak]

most tanks have a BR
no tanks have a lust

[shadow ibex]

I'm not even saying getting invited is hard, just a list a the pros to inviting a war

[atomic shoal]

give warrior a br

valkyrs call

raise them from the dead

[candid pecan]

unless its a physical group... no1 should invite war

[atomic shoal]

isnt it one of the most popular ones

[shadow ibex]

Warrior? Arms historically has among the lowest number of parses in raid and I've yet to run in to any dps war while I gear up my baby DK

[candid pecan]

retpaladins tho (Mythic raid)

[quaint otter]

look hm

[shadow ibex]

Like 50% more fury

[shadow ibex]

Ret being a real spec is the single worst thing to happen to wow

I'll die on this hill

[dim basalt]

After Slayer, of course

[atomic shoal]

oh i thought war was one of the most popular classes

[slow saddle]

I hate slaywe

[rare kite]

Is this aberrus

[candid pecan]

LOL

its current raid

Liberation of Undermine

[rare kite]

Oh it's sorted by amount of parses. Ignore me, being big

[fresh spire]

Ret druid hunter the Kings for casuals

Classsic

[shadow ibex]

Ret really makes me think they balance around spec popularity

They are insanely easy

And just good

[naive sage]

I am seriously considering ret as main next season

[shadow ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1335030702600618064/ret1.gif

[naive sage]

I went enha for TWW and I’m struggling getting invites in pug anyways

I just want the most meta and desired dps spec to play

I am old and tired

[rare kite]

mage then

[naive sage]

Ye it’s there too and I actually like fire mage

[rare kite]

mage has been meta the most out of all the classes. if you can enjoy mage you should main mage

[shadow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/fuck-that-big-think-jeff-garlin-screw-that-ignore-it-gif-22023389

[rare kite]

i wish i could enjoy mage. does not feel good to play

[naive sage]

Believe me when I say I spent a lot of time on the “I must keep playing my favorite spec regardless of meta” hill

[shadow ibex]

I made a frost dk so technically I made things more difficult

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[hollow plover]

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-night-elf-night-elves-warcraft-wow-gif-27449728

[spiral coral]

Bro fire mage is the funnest shit to play but I would never main it lmao

[shadow ibex]

One edit should be the DK with breath tooltip over it's face

[spiral coral]

@shadow ibex thank you

I’ve been playing fdk for a week now

I never thought turbo boost would be this impactful tbh

I have so many maxed out geared toons it’s crazy

Hitting 650ish in like less than an hour or so after hitting 80 is some hardcore serotonin

Going to have every class at 80/640+ by the end of the season by this rate

With three lvl 80 warriors too 🤦‍♂️

[shadow ibex]

I'm only 661 but feel like punching way above my weight. I've timed 12s and topped damage against like 679 dps

Breath just pumps

First pull of floodgate is like 12mil dps

[hollow plover]

[spiral coral]

Okay, I’m not insane. Is fdk a hidden gem or are we just pumping?

I don’t look at tier lists I just never hear anyone ever talking about it

Always uhdk

[sage badge]

FDK owns.

[shadow ibex]

It's really fun playing around runes and RP

Yea I can oblit now but I got pillar in like 10 seconds so why not pool for that and pop off

I'm also trying to have as little haste as possible so my runes recharge slow as fuck so wasting them feels even worse

[boreal quartz]

least masochistic arms war

[shadow ibex]

That litch king spell they got

Remorseless winter or whatever

Man idk what they put in that shit but

https://tenor.com/view/9ja-hungry-eat-by-hands-lick-fingers-finger-licking-gif-14632054

That shit good

[spiral coral]

Agreed. Haven’t really wanted to play anything else till you got me back into it.

[inner wasp]

what's the arms warrior delve meta

healer brann?

[inner wasp]

i kinda wanna play around a resource 🥺

since blizz decided rage means nothing

[spiral coral]

Yeah if you’re dps = healer bran

Could just run prot or fury to make them even easier

I can’t believe I’m going to have to delve for the belt

I’m still salty about it

[shadow ibex]

they even made frost strike do aoe with the tier set

so you dont even need glacial advance or frostscythe

killing machina auto fires glacial advance its so fuckin smooth

[reef mauve]

Tier set gives your free frost scythe strike and GA are talents

And the free GA proc frost scythe

[outer forge]

The thing that annoys me about frost is having to have like 5 extra macros for pillar to play it optimally.

[dim basalt]

Imagine if they finally cooked something for us

DF S3 kind of cook

[shadow ibex]

Yea like mortal strike hitting things next to it with mortal strike

[dim basalt]

Dunno about that one chief

Unless it all can sweep and proc CM 👀

[shadow ibex]

i just want legion sweep tbh

[arctic iris]

My wishlist for arms would be something like this:

Cleve and whirlwind swap places and damage values. Both now apply deep wounds. So the talented version is primarily an upgrade in damage and AOE shape, rather than being the only on demand way to make our mastery work in an AOE

Colossus gets redesigned so that demolish is a very brief cast time that slams the ground in front of you and does damage in a big cone (similar range to eye beam so that you don't lose damage if the tank drags the mob away)

Juggernaut is heavily nerfed and the damage is rolled into baseline execute so that we don't suffer as badly if we can't maintain stacks

Champion's spear is now a choice node with ancient aftershock

Unhinged cleaves with sweeping strikes again

Sweeping strikes taken off the global cooldown

Rallying cry buffed

We get bloodlust

We get some kind of additional utility, like the ability to throw a mob to a targeted location (would obviously not work on mobs that are immune to grips or knockbacks)

[shadow ibex]

If they weren't cowards they would put AM in the class tree

[naive sage]

Juggernaut too considering how it’s shared by all three

Maybe it would be better if it wasn’t a capstone anymore

[reef mauve]

I would like the sudden death does a massive tclap set bonus added in to the spec or class. That was neat

[reef glade]

Could easily have been added as thane flavor but eh game mid

[reef mauve]

I think it would just be good on the class tree as a follow up to putting sudden death on the class tree

[shadow ibex]

Nah instead path down thru shit like sidearm

The way to armored to the teeth has stuff you shouldnt even use in an ST encounter like tclap and shockwave

[spiral coral]

You’re cooking outside of bloodlust

I really like the demo idea

Why are warriors so hung up on getting lust?

I’ll never understand that lol

[shadow ibex]

people say its thematic idc either way

if we suppose utility is either being able to bres or bloodlust then bloodlust makes more sense

[warm fog]

Because every m+ group wants a lust and 2+ brez, and warriors don’t have either

[arctic iris]

In my opinion, every single class should have one or the other.

I think that they're a little worried about giving lust to warrior because then it's the only tank with lust

[warm fog]

So give it to monks too

And yes every spec should have one so we can’t stop designing groups around it

[shadow ibex]

it is weird that 3 tanks have a bres

[inner wasp]

which means its FINE to give us lust

cmon blizz

[shadow ibex]

50% of the tanks can bres

[reef mauve]

And 2 to it of 3 plate classes can brez

[warm fog]

I can’t think of a compelling reason to not give warriors lust. It’s arguably less good than brez since multiple brez is better than 1

Give warriors and rogues lust, give monks and priests brez - am I missing anyone?

[shadow ibex]

i think they would just say use the bres item

or create soem extra action button to use at high key levels since this is really just about m+

having lust or bres in a raid doesnt matter

[wide nebula]

My whishlist for warriors utility :
Bring back all three banner from mop
Bring back necrolord banner
Give a BL for warrior
And there we go

[rare kite]

i do not want skullbanner back "and we hold skullbanner for this"

i want to use my cds on my timings

not on someone elses

[shadow ibex]

banners wont happen

[low pond]

Any1 able to link colossus raid build for OAB? Do people still run this to help with adds?

[arctic iris]

The last thing we need is for banners to come back. Don't want another season where the comp is just everyone simping for mage to be the main character

[latent hull]

bring back condemn

[arctic iris]

And, more broadly speaking, group / external damage buffs like that are problematic for my design standpoint because they encourage building an entire comp that matches that same cooldown timing. You saw this with aug pushing the meta heavily towards 2 minute specs, we've seen it with power infusion, and we'd see it with banner

And the more effects like that that you have, the more likely it is that comps become more rigid because there are enough to build around a particular cooldown length

[arctic iris]

Please god no

[latent hull]

as if warrior would become meta if we got banner

[inner wasp]

what if instead of thinking about how warriors can have more utility, we think about the utility bloat that's been giving every other class more and more over time?

just kidding haha

unless?

[wide nebula]

[inner wasp]

WOOOOO

im condemn #1 fan

[latent hull]

youre the only hater bro

condemn was fire

[inner wasp]

i was the only venthyr holdout in a world of kyrians

i love revendreth!! i love condemn!!

[boreal quartz]

L

[rare kite]

not even close to the only hater

[latent hull]

xd

[arctic iris]

Condemn felt especially bad in shadowlands with the very short duration on ashen juggernaut, to the point that certain intermissions were being forced out of melee for a long time would plummet your damage.

In some ways, it's similar to what Slayer has to deal with now, although there's differences since the stacks last longer but you're more reliant on procs to be able to refresh

It also created a frustrating damage profile where almost all of your damage came at the beginning and end of the fight and you hit like a wet noodle for about half of the encounter.

[shadow ibex]

wanting condemn back to me is just dancing around real issue

which is that we dont want to press slam

thats the elephant in the room

tryin to work around that just doesnt make sense. just let us execute always, adjust cost and dmg if you still want sub 35 to be important

no point in inventing ways around pressing slam when pressing slam is the problem

just like we want to press mortal strike and it feel meaty. we got it buffed and MS has felt better than it has in like a decade

[boreal quartz]

condemn swept was good

[arctic iris]

I think that they made the wrong choice going into war within and a little bit in dragonflight

Namely, they dialed back our rage generation so that we were less about frantically trying to outspend the flood of rage we were getting, but in my opinion, that was sort of fun

What they actually should have done was increase slam's rage cost, probably to 40 or maybe even 60 so that we have a real rage dump. With our old levels of rage generation, this would have actually been a buff because it would have helped to fuel AM and ToM

[boreal quartz]

condemn gameplay loop was dogshit cancerpissaids

[rare kite]

i've said this so many times that we are too centric on overpower. several expansions slam hasn't felt bad to press, but ever since tactician was on overpower slam has felt like shit

[boreal quartz]

s1 and prepatch

both worst iterations of arms in that expec

[shadow ibex]

the first 80% of a boss is so fast

in like 90% of cases it has lust

[boreal quartz]

it was like

good on sire

for remornia

but thats cheap asf idk

[shadow ibex]

and even then dude

boomies that tier

[boreal quartz]

hunters

[shadow ibex]

still blew ur ass out

[boreal quartz]

dks

well dk till the nerf nerf

hc week my beloved

[shadow ibex]

and not only that dude

like

she got below 80% health

AND THEN WHAT DO I DO WITH MY LIFE

what am i here for

[arctic iris]

Yeah, Sire was like the most ideal fight for condemn of all time and arms still wasn't especially great there

If it had been any other encounter as the end boss, condemn would have felt like complete ass, but because of the specific fight, it felt almost okay

[shadow ibex]

fuck condemn man i forgot how much i hated CN

[boreal quartz]

CN was such a cool tier

except

[shadow ibex]

too bad we played warrior