Been around since vanilla but its current iteration is essentially pointless
#arms
dim basalt
pvp only talent atm ye
prime bramble
You usually hamstring in pvp as well kekw
prime bramble
Would be cool as an interrupt, disorient, etc
Bitter immunity, int shout, intervene, spear, piercing howl, rallying cry, etc all being dead talents/abilities just feels odd
smoky kayak
A class does its effec with their auto attacks lol
tbf that class doesn't apply the snare in an AoE with their auto attacks
dim basalt
roar is also in a weird spot, though not utility
smoky kayak
but it's more a commentary on the power creep across the game as a whole - PHowl used to be kind of unique in the same way that Charge was, but now everyone has a snare, everyone has a mobility, etc
I mean Warrior still bring a lot of lockdown potential between Int Shout, Storm Bolt, Shockwave, and even Spear but you simply don't ever need all of that, especially when practically every other class brings at least one as well
same deal with Berserker Shout, despite its obvious design failures, it might be a decent ability if mobs actually feared regularly enough to care about it
smoky kayak
Yeah, except even then, dedicating a talent point to one boss across an entire dungeon is... not particularly effective
and that's before considering all of those design flaws that make it even less worthwhile
prime bramble
Int shout being target cap and needing another talent point to make it not a troll pick lol
Another ability improved by conduits that didn't follow
smoky kayak
the target capping isn't even the biggest issue with shout
dim basalt
target cap is fine in lots of scenarios
smoky kayak
it doesn't need to be the same as shockwave anyway
prime bramble
This season with the mob density in keys makes target cap in cc feel particularly rough imo
smoky kayak
it shouldn't, that's what you have shockwave for
but Int Shout's problem is the fact that fearing is useless when it breaks on damage and knocking back a bunch of enemies in random directions isn't much better
and that's ignoring the fact that you're raising the talent point cost from 1 (that you already can't really afford to spend) to 2
prime bramble
The conduit to add the damage increase before breaking and locking them in place was nice
smoky kayak
yeah, the fear broke in 0.2s instead of 0.1
prime bramble
Mattered if the cast that was gonna go off would kill ya lol
thick hamlet
i'd play intimidating shout if it locked mobs in place again
smoky kayak
Mattered if the cast that was gonna go off would kill ya lol
the cast is interrupted either way by the initial fear
truth of the matter is that Int Shout is just a bad ability in PvE all the way around
but the ease of access of Shockwave largely renders it obsolete anyway
smoky kayak
doesn't really matter, mobs are rarely hitting DR unless you're just throwing stuns for no reason
and even then, the important part is just interrupting more so than actually keeping them stunned
prime bramble
Depending on group comp DR can come fast imo
And some stuff can't be interrupted like goblins running to mechs
smoky kayak
a handful of things, yes
but you also tend to prio and kill those targets too
that's a very specific case, and a case in which Int Shout is actually fine since it always affects your primary target - the target cap doesn't affect it one bit
prime bramble
For sure, just the danger of pulling extra occurs then
Sending Randoms into the stands haha
smoky kayak
possible, but very rare since the damage breaks so quickly
prime bramble
And obviously giving up damage most likely to get it
smoky kayak
even then if you're hard DRing those goblins before killing them, yall are either throwing way too many overlapping stuns or you're just not hitting them
you don't give up damage for Int Shout, you give up some other survivability
prime bramble
People panic stun those groups to keep the assassin blades from going out so much kekw
smoky kayak
that's a skill issue, not a design one
if people are throwing panic stuns, then they should suffer the negative effects of DR
that's how they learn to do better
prime bramble
If other classes have significantly less issues grabbing those crowd control abilities with less draw backs I'd argue its a design issue
smoky kayak
what issues? you're literally forced to path through shockwave lol
we take it in single target ffs
smoky kayak
well again, aside from Int Shout just being generally bad and outmoded by Shockwave to the point where it's completely unnecessary, you don't give up much to get it - dropping soimething like Second Wind for it is basically free
the issue is in trying to take the second point, but that'd be a problem no matter what - 1 talent point is not so big an investment, 2 most certainly is without great returns
and the Int Shout addons just aren't that good either - see aforementioned points about knocking enemies back in random directions being just as bad (or worse) than fearing them
I don't think I've talented Int Shout once this season though, it's just wholly unnecessary
especially with Colossus' knockup, I'd just as soon take Rumbling Earth before Int Shout
prime bramble
Yea exactly kind of my point i guess, taking our utility is set up in such a way that it feels bad
smoky kayak
well no, it's easy to take Int Shout
prime bramble
Not trying to sell my solution to the problem, more so just noting that alot of our abilities feel bad/pointless to take
smoky kayak
the problem with our "utility" or at least the utility we don't take, is that it's so wholly circumstantial it's just not worth taking
Berserker Shout is pointless - even if there's a fear like in Mists, no group-wide Fear is designed to be so debilitating that you actually care to use it. Most have worn off by the time Berserker Shout would go off anyway
Piercing Howl is pointless - there's seldom need to kite mobs in PvE anymore, and most classes can snare passively anyway
Int Shout is pointless - Shockwave covers 99% of use cases without any of the downsides
prime bramble
Yea I'd agree with all of that
Rallying cry being 10% is a big shame too
Not even a tick of most debuffs in 12+ keys
smoky kayak
like I said at the very beginning of this conversation, the issue isn't with the effects themselves, it's that the game has evolved to a point where you don't care about those effects anymore
prime bramble
Yea not fighting against that logic, more so advocating for them to be reworked into the modern day needs of our class
smoky kayak
another good example - we have two separate talents reducing the CD of our kick, and don't take either of them, despite kicks being legitimately important in PvE
because as important as kicking is, it's rarely something you're actually doing on cooldown
prime bramble
Also with above average group play its unnecessary anyway
Group control probably more paramount
smoky kayak
Shattering/Wrecking Throw are the same
- Shattering doesn't work on anything in PvE, because if it did, you'd create a design need for a Warrior to use it, which obv Blizz doesn't want
- Wrecking does work in PvE, but enemies very rarely have shields to take advantage of it
So it's really not that Warriors lack utility, it's just that their utility isn't all that useful when nearly every other class already has a kick, a stun, and a slow, if not multiple
this is the result of homogenizing class design for M+ 
prime bramble
Most classes are taken because they are just the top damage
And the utility is a plus
When you are not top damage, the lack of utility feels worse imo lol
smoky kayak
higher damage/survivability, yeah, but even that is just a revolving door
because blizz doesn't design along lines of "ok X should be strong ST and Y should be strong MT"
they just spin the roulette wheel every season
prime bramble
You would think they did with target caps lol
smoky kayak
target caps aren't the issue with damage
everyone likes to piss and moan about them, but they're just one small part of a greater formula
prime bramble
If the 20 target cap class does more 5 target damage than the 5 target cap class I think there is something worth bemoaning there imo
But obviously this only presents itself in niche m+ meta at higher keys
smoky kayak
causation != causality
the question you have to ask is "are they doing more damage because of the target cap, or in spite of it" and it's almost always the latter
they're doing more damage simply because they're tuned to do more damage
hence, roulette table, or "tuning is a revolving door" - its something that changes, fairly randomly, every season
prime bramble
Yea but a patient doesn't need to know WHY they are sick, just that it hurts. Players often aren't right with what the problem is but they are often correct about why they aren't having fun interacting with something.
smoky kayak
that's not a great analogy
you wouldn't give a shit about target caps if you were the highest damage/meta class
well that's not true, you'd still complain about it because people love to complain about things, but being target capped wouldn't matter if you were top damage in spite of it
prime bramble
Winning cures everything as they say
smoky kayak
people just like to assign blame on one specific thing, because people like it when everything is nice and tidy that way
but the reality is usually a lot more complicated
and I'm not saying that target caps are good, but coping that Fury would suddenly be amazing without target caps is just that - coping
prime bramble
Naw I think you're right about that
But when a big pack is pulled and you do 50% less than an "uncapped class"
Then a 5 pull comes and you still do less
smoky kayak
I do agree with the sentiment that the capped class should generally be better within that cap than the non-capped one though
prime bramble
You will feel a certain way lol
smoky kayak
Sure, but that's also getting into a lot of different issues - CD uptime and general tuning being the two big ones
robust cypress
what stat do you ideally want to proc with b-i-s?
smoky kayak
doesn't really matter since you have zero control over it
candid pecan
what stat do you ideally want to proc with b-i-s?
ideally the best stat 
robust cypress
The on use is based on your highest.
smoky kayak
yes, but you cannot dynamically change that mid combat
and just because Versatility might be your best stat at the moment doesn't mean that it's going to be your highest geared stat
Which is often the case in current higher gear levels - Versatility and Haste are generally your "best" stats atm, but Mastery is probably the one you have the most of
but if you regeared to drop Mastery and stack Versatility instead... Vers would no longer be your best stat
robust cypress
Okay so its fine that mine would proc haste then? Would've figured trying to make it proc crit or mastery would be better
smoky kayak
not at the expense of worse general gearing, no
if you just so happened to have two stats at pratically the same value, so that you could push one just above the other without any significant gearing change - maybe, but that would be an extraordinarily rare circumstance
otherwise, don't worry about it; all stats are good stats
shrewd umbra
!sim
olive nest
!psych
robust cypress
Is it normal for a 678 ring to beat cyrce's?
smoky kayak
yes, Arms replaces it a lot easier than Fury does
next week practically everyone will replace it
robust cypress
kk, just noticed on IV/wowhead it still lists cyrce's as bis but I replaced it once I got jastors+678 bloodoath signet
smoky kayak
BiS lists don't mean anything, they're only relevant in the context of that exact set of gear, not necessarily your set of gear
stoic siren
is this correct? is it warbreaker before ravager or ravager before warbreaker?
rough sluice
before
smoky kayak
is this correct? is it warbreaker before ravager or ravager before warbreaker?
for AoE, maximizing bonegrinder uptime is more important than maximizing warbreaker uptime, so Warbreaker goes first
the opposite is true in ST, so Ravager goes first
stoic siren
thanks
halcyon valve
Bonegrinder 50% cleave, warbreaker 30% dmg, cleave big
minor gust
for AoE, maximizing bonegrinder uptime is more important than maximizing warbrea...
its mostly just because of potential EB procs right because you dont actually lose a cleave in MBG window if you do rav before WB.
smoky kayak
largely, yes, though haste procs can also lead to funky variance
shadow ibex
its mostly just because of potential EB procs right because you dont actually lo...
rav inside wb also makes the ticks faster so lower mbg uptime
minor gust
thought so my brain is already wired for cds before wb so I still do that. OPP vs MS is the real struggle trying to get my brain to subconsciously prio OPP while MS is up is impossible. Its only when not much is going on and im just chillin focusing on my rotation that I can but when I have to go auto pilot because im focusing on the fight/mechanics that I still just prio MS
shadow ibex
since its tied to duration
minor gust
down with OPP
minor gust
rav inside wb also makes the ticks faster so lower mbg uptime
is it tho I thought MBG was a flat duration
oh yeah your right its bladestorm thats the flat duration but its diff with rav
ima be honest then seems like the whole rav before or after WB min max genuinely does not matter.
smoky kayak
Bonegrinder is flat duration w/ BS, not Rav
smoky kayak
ima be honest then seems like the whole rav before or after WB min max genuinely...
it really is, but so are most things; didn't you see my mockup of Blizz' assisted rotation? 
minor gust
I have not kek
robust cypress
is it even worth crafting an item this week if we're just gonna recraft next week
minor gust
depends entirely on you and what you need that crafted item for
spiral coral
is it even worth crafting an item this week if we're just gonna recraft next wee...
Depends. If it’s a big upgrade, and you’re pushing I would go ahead, it’s only going to be gold/mats to recraft it up a bit. Up to you
grand idol
Buy mats today, craft item tomorrow (next week).
minor gust
woah man inflations hit hard its $1 these days
hollow plover
I swapped to thread this week
critthread?
shadow ibex
Yea
hollow plover
which weap?
split frigate
whats the best nerubian embeleshment in the weapon, anyone know de cor?
hollow plover
BIS?
shadow ibex
Dumpster diver
hollow plover
Dumpster diver
shadow ibex
I'll passed on our only bis drop
hollow plover
is that better for prog
shadow ibex
I'll buy bis next week
hollow plover
than ascend?
shadow ibex
Idk I just wanted to prep
shadow ibex
For going bis next week
hollow plover
yuh
but me personally i feel like i need ascendance for mugzee
i have dumpster diver too, but idk if i should recraft yet
I think i'd rather wait honestly, i raid thursdays so i got a whole ass day to prepare
shadow ibex
They are close enough and we aren't dying to enrage if it is like .1% worse
And I just wanted to be rdy for next week
hollow plover
imma sim the diff for me
AYO IM SWITCHIGN TOO IM SWITCHING TOO WHAT
or wait
no
im going fury on gally
split frigate
dumpster diver is authority of the deeps?
i know nothing about crafting
-10 inteligence
split frigate
The nerubian embellishment is called "Ascendance"
cool, any difference between axe to sword?
hollow plover
cool, any difference between axe to sword?
non
hollow plover
reach out if you need any tips with anything
we are all here to yap about warrior
💯
split frigate
we are all here to yap about warrior
minor gust
Ascension wep craft was mostly because of easy way to acquire a myth weapon that's why it's a good early prog craft
fresh spire
https://tenor.com/view/gorilla-monke-monkey-spin-ape-gif-25078721
The gorilla on his way to destroy 100 people (they all play aug)
minor gust
I got dessias wep last week so I was finally able to swap to double dawn.
Prob shoulda done double dusk but whatever
minor gust
It's like a .1% diff between the two it's more for the flexibility of fury swapping and vers in M+ being useful.
spiral coral
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/148898720803586048/1114308309143519383/...
omg i love this
minor gust
robust cypress
I love that
shadow ibex
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1042762634539319366/1053485451668901988/20221217_013459.gif
Remember when it was this simple
hollow wave
Now iam confused, I though we are supposed to min max Collateral and try to allign with other cds, Meanwhile my SIM just send it the moment it ends its stacks, even 4 seconds from a Ravager, this spec is so weird
stable fiber
Now iam confused, I though we are supposed to min max Collateral and try to alli...
sim is different because (i assume) its hitting 5 bosses for 5 minutes, that doesnt happen in m+ where mobs die after 20 seconds
I personally play around collateral damage and do like 4-6m overall depending on dungeon
minor gust
sims are different than actual gameplay
robust cypress
you guys dont do route sims?
tacit crystal
no
for fury i just sim st because the loss from going aoe is minimal
arms i dont sim ever because its just whatever highest ilvl and stack crit for keys
it really narrows down my options of gear
tacit crystal
i dont got crit mast rings
tacit crystal
i think i only have haste crit rings
lean geode
I did a priory earlier with a tank who insisted on pulling one pack at a time
And also somehow still missed count
and we still almost 2 chested
minor gust
I had a frequent bug in DF when I logged in as fury only one weapon would be visible was fun. Had many people msg me how are you playing fury with one weapon
shadow ibex
maybe spec specific xmog weird then
sage bison
yeah deff a weird bug, just was curious if anyone could replicate
covert drift
Still ravager over BS on colossus even with buffs right?
minor gust
just a bug that happens
dire hinge
Triple minded fury
gusty eagle
guys myth lock n stalk is better than myth pacemaker?
minor gust
stable fiber
dude this spec is miserable
the more i play it
4x cringe pulls in a row on sprocket
marked for death stacks fell off on the latest pull
god its so shit
might go play arcane mage, hit a 60 million arcane barrage on vexie the other day at 637 ilvl ngl
stable fiber
nah mfd fell off
the red debuff that stacks 3x and reduces BS cd when you execute
that one
the full 30 second duration
like i lowkey dont even give a fuck about jugg, its just that insane slayer strikes matter so much more
thats the real rng of this spec
shadow ibex
the full 30 second duration
stable fiber
i swear to god it almost happened again
minor gust
dude this spec is miserable
welcome to tww arms
stable fiber
i think im playing fury for the actual prog then once we get to 35% consistently i switch back to arms ngl
maybe grief
but like
minor gust
basically sprocket as a fight
feels like you got it down but ppl will die to bullshit over and over
minor gust
starting mugzee prog here back to slayer jail
hollow wave
There is no right with arms, everything you do is wrong 
tawdry river
Hi, this will be dumb question. During execution time, Execute only with >=40 rage or less is acceptable for 2 stacks of Executioner's Precision?
tacit crystal
im pretty sure its still worth to execute below
but the amount of times that you are below 40
xdd
tawdry river
but the amount of times that you are below 40
True, I don't find myself often less than 100. But tonight during Mug happened twice because I got a streak of mechanics on me. But thanks!
shadow ibex
i think OP but that might be with FB only and also doesnt matter really
minor gust
dont play jug with colossus then silly goose
shadow ibex
avatar demo CS fatal pop
tacit crystal
its worth to hold surely
minor gust
thats exactly what I played on OAB you will do dmg
just hit your buttons
just convince your raid that adds arent a big deal these days and melee should just focus boss the whole time and cleave off him instead of hard swapping
balmy kindle
i hate colo jug when it doesnt give a stack of cm
Pretty sure battelord Sims higher on Colo ST
balmy kindle
Jug only good on slayer 
minor gust
minor gust
take extended SS you silly goose
minor gust
shadow ibex
i think ill try fatal again next mug. rn using avatar around final charge spin i can probably delay a bit and get avatar fatal pop and not lose a cast. he's at like 16% with final jail and it has 30+ left
minor gust
thought you guys were on OAB
shadow ibex
probably kill 16% in 30+
minor gust
i think ill try fatal again next mug. rn using avatar around final charge spin i...
what are your cds like when boss hits around 30%. Mine were ready for OAB pop but I valued having cds for lust more than fatality
shadow ibex
honestly it probably wouldnt even be much of a hold he's kinda melting
tacit crystal
thought you guys were on OAB
we didnt extend
minor gust
crazy
tacit crystal
i just did some terrorist shit on sprocket
shadow ibex
i can understand that with dinar next week
tacit crystal
i didnt have the gate toy on my bars
shadow ibex
and how nerfed stuff got
tacit crystal
so i opened my bags mid cast
found it and clicked it
2 x
xd
d
dd
d
d
d
d
shadow ibex
reclear in theory could be quick
tacit crystal
its not going quick
minor gust
reclears are a toss up
minor gust
no hold
tacit crystal
even if ava in 10
minor gust
if Ava is sub 10 I would hold then
shadow ibex
just always have a dmg amp up
stable fiber
man
doing 3m dps on sprocket for 3 mins straight then wiping
not even in execute yet
shadow ibex
you can refresh
wintry arch
Ok but it only goes to 15 right? As tank I was getting to 25s
minor gust
only goes to 15
wintry arch
Thank you
shadow ibex
shadowlands screenshot
swift crown
Ok but it only goes to 15 right? As tank I was getting to 25s
Different difficulties have different durations
floral edge
hey guys question
i simmede at 6.8M for 5 targets as arms
what is the arms rotation?
and is that high or low
dim basalt
Read a guide if you wanna learn the rotation
hexed saddle
and is that high or low
feel like you've been here long enough to know that there are actually some questions that are dumb
astral yarrow
minor gust
exploded
magic canopy
tacit crystal
https://tenor.com/view/uncanny-cat-security-camera-footage-gif-12380446441369390...
why am i allowed to play fury after 4 months of not touching the spec and doing infinite daamge
swift crown
why am i allowed to play fury after 4 months of not touching the spec and doing ...
Infinite57
outer holly
So this is weird but has anyone noticed execute adding to the CD of BS?
I'm thinking it may be a graphical error adding the GCD to the CD since it's been happening the moment BS comes off CD and I hit an exe to keep jugg rolling
dim basalt
Wish they would finally fix it
minor gust
dont get your hopes up
daring flicker
Infinite57
Schmidman
daring flicker
Ay up brav
swift crown
Ay brav watch oot brav I'll knock yer noggin off
daring flicker
Get me some bread please
quasi torrent
what kind
daring flicker
I am Bri’ish there is only one kind
quasi torrent
u guys disgust me
viral locust
Polish bread where it's at
zenith lodge
it is a bug
so its actually a bug, thank god thought I was going insane and seeing things
fresh spire
So this is weird but has anyone noticed execute adding to the CD of BS?
Bug was reported recently. Hopefully fixed sooner than later. Apparently this bug existed a long time ago with sudden death when 1 charge. Bug returned when sd had its cap raised to 2 from 1.
Bug only occurs when sd2 is spent
Some interaction with anger management
Is causing it
tacit crystal
it is a bug
what causes it
minor gust
haiyaaaaaa Gio
tacit crystal
hi
minor gust
look up
tacit crystal
i did a 2/8 on my 656 wl
minor gust
Fishy just explained it
minor gust
tsk tsk tsk
tacit crystal
was reading down
minor gust
you guys rekill sprocket
tacit crystal
no
minor gust
F
swift crown
Cheating57
minor gust
how much gold did it cost
quasi torrent
Cheating57
Schmidi56
minor gust
oh that will do it
quasi torrent
knowing someone who knows someone in vodka
brother just flexed over knowing someone across 2 streets
wary dune
Hello, starting mug prog this evening. Since the BS buff is it now not optimal to play ravager in slayer?
tacit crystal
brother just flexed over knowing someone across 2 streets
yep
quasi torrent
i must leak my bnet friendlist
quasi torrent
nyo :3
quasi torrent
only revvez58
swift crown
Hundemensch
quasi torrent
Hundemensch is a turbo goat
tacit crystal
what does that word mean
quasi torrent
doghuman
swift crown
Not a goat then is it
tacit crystal
which part of the word means dog
swift crown
which part of the word means dog
Gio go to your favourite translator
And type dog
(Its Hund)
halcyon breach
wtf real michael "mr gaming" preach!!!
you're missing a part of his name here
minor gust
I require you to speak American so I can understand ty
tacit crystal
americans when they see a foreign language
me when i speak 2 languages 😦
quasi torrent
schmidi is a wrrior player
sacred zodiac
Hello, starting mug prog this evening. Since the BS buff is it now not optimal t...
Ye just play bs
tacit crystal
Ye just play bs
hi spongus
sacred zodiac
Hallo
tacit crystal
can you look at my warlock log
halcyon breach
press chaos bolt
tacit crystal
dont play that spec
quasi torrent
bneziai
halcyon breach
andussy
quasi torrent
mraow
halcyon breach
meowdy :3
halcyon grove
For sure 6% 🤣
minor gust
minor gust
I would be to not rekilling
tacit crystal
i also died tn to pressing wl gate bc i moved my demolish bind
minor gust
but thats the risk when you decide to reclear after killing a hard boss
many nights of spending an hour or 2 sometimes rekilling a boss
tacit crystal
maybe us not having main healer
and trial tank
but it wasnt just thay
people doing colors wrong
missing gate
missing bombs
90% of the raid was in last week on the kill
idk
minor gust
happens its unfort
swift crown
schmidi can you look at my log on my warlock
are you noober
I am noober
I natty gray parsed Gallywix last week cause I'm a noober
halcyon breach
can't believe NS allow noobers to join
swift crown
Can't believe Banezi is still yellow
halcyon breach
:3
swift crown
:3
halcyon breach
tacit crystal
I natty gray parsed Gallywix last week cause I'm a noober
swift crown
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CmWF1vrGz3Pwh4Xf?fight=14&type=damage-done
the fuck is this
halcyon breach
Sir I think those are shadowbolts
tacit crystal
uh dont think i had a demonbolt and wanted to hig
daring flicker
Get him capy man
tacit crystal
but i was running out of time to dogs
thick kelp
hig
tacit crystal
so i sent tyrsnt
swift crown
Sir
What the fuck is your opener actually
why do you press Gloomhound into double Shadow Bolt
tacit crystal
i precast the 30s dog then i double sb to have 4 to and then send other guard
swift crown
why?
tacit crystal
wtf does that mean
swift crown
I skipped making more Imps
cause I thought we´d push early
so I make an intentionall worse Tyrant to guarantee having it for the damage amp
this is a more normal Opener, just ignore the Burning Rush it's Lockenstock and I had to shmoove
Grimoire has longest duration so you generally wanna cast it first
tacit crystal
yeah
do you know why people might want to precast sogs
bc i think ive seen a few of the high parses doing it
some korean on sprocket did it
tacit crystal
so if i precast dogs would it be fine to sb grimore sb others dogs dump tyrant?
not 2 sb
or jsut do regular opener
gray herald
woah didnt realise i joined the warlock discord 
weak wave
How far behind Colossus is the Slayer M+ build?
outer holly
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CmWF1vrGz3Pwh4Xf?fight=14&type=damage-done
istg bikes always melt before I get more than 3 GCDs off, my add damage is doody in comparison
balmy kindle
How far behind Colossus is the Slayer M+ build?
I think you can hit quite high aoe dmg on slayer m+ as well ( particularly big pulls over time) but your dmg can vary wildy based on how many reap procs you get
Not to mention at higher keys 13+ maybe, Colo is alot tankier
Personally still hate arms Bladestorm
weak wave
I think you can hit quite high aoe dmg on slayer m+ as well ( particularly big p...
I'm fine with Colossus in total but I hate that I have to press 7-8 buttons before I can actually start my AoE rotation.
Also I like Bladestorm much more than Ravager.
dim basalt
I'm fine with Colossus in total but I hate that I have to press 7-8 buttons befo...
Huh what are you pressing before your aoe rotation
Because thats not actually the case as col
Both openers are very similar except that col has an additional big dam button
inland drift
how's the bosses on mythic, the first 2, can be pugged?
minor gust
if its a good pug first 4
inland drift
had quite the fun parsin 55-69 on arms , was quite tired
weak wave
Huh what are you pressing before your aoe rotation
TC, Cleave, Roar, SS, Avatar, Warbreaker, Ravager, Cleave, Demolish.
With BS I at least have a little break while spinning. 😅
dim basalt
With BS youre afk for 5 seconds
weak wave
With BS youre afk for 5 seconds
Yes. What I said
And the rotation is more split up. First I pop all my AoEs, after that it's SS and Cleave time
naive sage
fascinating! Now you can fill the useless red bar even faster
slow saddle
just buff execute and bring back o
dim basalt
Execute playable in M+ without a sham pog
Not that its good even with a sham as col...
slow saddle
but man slayer arms in keys is fun now and quite quite good
quaint otter
Quite good
weak wave
but man slayer arms in keys is fun now and quite quite good
Do you have any numbers? How far behind Colossus is it?
weak wave
I guess for 10s and 11s it will be enough.
dim basalt
Even for higher keys
At least in some less aoe heavy dungeons such as top and workshop
But until +15 or +16 there shouldnt be issues, assuming the group doesnt suck
quaint otter
sleek terrace
Is anyone test the damage difference arms slayer and arms colossus in m+? I am thinking about the quit fury
minor gust
As someone who's done some 15 16 Slayer keys it's fine.
weak wave
Is anyone test the damage difference arms slayer and arms colossus in m+? I am t...
5 messages above yours.
civic parrot
sup gang, just did a transfer from an arcane mage to the OG Arms Warrior, need help what embellishment should i be getting for the ring of earthen craftmanship ring?
weak wave
sup gang, just did a transfer from an arcane mage to the OG Arms Warrior, need h...
Doesn't matter much. All are >1% dmg gain.
lunar remnant
And the rotation is more split up. First I pop all my AoEs, after that it's SS a...
I basically do the same thing but like to slap a cleave in there early to get bleeds rolling
spiral coral
Colossus is just better. I’ve been trying to make slayer work, and I like it but the sustained damage from colossus is just so much better. Also I’ve gotten pretty good at sending demo at 10 stacks or close and when to hit it where on dungeons and slayer just doesn’t do the big aoe I want it to.
minor gust
Slayer does work it's just not better than Colossus which is fine. But it doesn't feel as down bad as it was before.
weak wave
Colossus is just better. I’ve been trying to make slayer work, and I like it but...
But then you start a 10 stack Demolish right when the tank is kiting mobs away. 😵💫
weak wave
Cant miss demolish if youre tanking
Ohh you mean we should macro taunt and Demolish together? 😃
dim basalt
I was making a prot joke but you could also make sure your tank dies and then demolish with dbts on
5head
weak wave
/taunt
/dbts
/demolish
gg
😎
dim basalt
If its a single mob you dont need dbts I believe
weak wave
Yeah but then you need 2 buttons for Demolish... One for trash with taunt macro and one for bosses without.
slow saddle
Colossus is just better. I’ve been trying to make slayer work, and I like it but...
hmmm but its aoe is still Quite high
dim basalt
On another note
Today more oab prog
Hopefully kill today 
Got to 25% after 100 pulls
slow saddle
45% on stix today
we still have ppl thinking running into crabs is good
or well so it seems at least ^_^
dim basalt
tbf even with a WA theyre shit to see sometimes
45% isnt far off from a kill tho
2nd half of the fight feels a lot more chill
minor gust
The last round of nerfs killed it
dim basalt
oab?
minor gust
Shit was insanely easy
Yeah
Tbf we were already close to killing it before the nerfs came out but like the difference felt night and day. Killed it in 7 pulls that night.
minor gust
Add nerf lost me a lot of dmg since I was enjoying myself playing Blord colossus
Def a Slayer only angle now
dim basalt
Wait dont tell me Im better off playing normal build again
I enjoyed your blord build
minor gust
Depends on your raid but like I was struggling to get some demos off on adds
They would just die to quick
minor gust
I would just play normal Slayer now if I were you
dim basalt
minor gust
Reel assistants aren't real just pump boss and do some cleave to them.
dim basalt
So basically what I did before as well, most of the time
But keeping an eye on jugg pisses me off
Just to mouseover exe from time to time
minor gust
We'll see if they do anything about Jugg in 11.2 Slayer ruined it and made it cringe.
dim basalt
sharp wyvern
Slayer gonna be the raid spec next season trust
minor gust
Surely
minor gust
dim basalt
honestly
sharp wyvern
*collosus
sharp wyvern
The midwashing already working
minor gust
Thing is if they kill jug we just go battlelord
fresh spire
sharp wyvern
We also still have fatality
dim basalt
Fatality
minor gust
I got you hmu been doing Slayer keys all week
fresh spire
Hit up long sweep and bl
Cleave > mfe3 execute > mortal strike> overpower (opportunist)> execute (sd/mfe stack > overpower
minor gust
Idea is full on reap angle I assume
fresh spire
Ye
Reap kinda bangs on training dummies. Wondering how it represents if forced In keys too
minor gust
Still blademasters torment yeah?
fresh spire
This is omega feelycraft. Colat sims is ahead of long sweep but also 0 brain needed to play around colat if longsweep
minor gust
Ill look for a floodgate meadery or priory to try it in
Da boys aren't on so might take a bit to pug into a 15
fresh spire
I haven't had much time to really nit pick the real values of overpower/dn as ofc the more targets the more consistent dn will get
fresh spire
Need to really work out at what point does dn+opportunist+sweep just beat out ms+sweep(rng reap)
quaint otter
Im going this. ☠️
quaint otter
tf
minor gust
fatality in keys holy someone wish this guy a nice christmas
slow saddle
Thing is if they kill jug we just go battlelord
Well battlelord slayer yes pls
hexed snow
minor gust
Need to really work out at what point does dn+opportunist+sweep just beat out ms...
just doing dummies rn while I wait for this 14 floodgate to fill it will def be better with bigger pulls but DN just feels weird if you dont prio OP 2nd
golden raptor
DN?
fresh spire
quaint otter
Actually trolling if running fatal
quaint otter
20 stacks into ava wb
slow saddle
Add amp to that😂
untold trench
<:wicked:937093876857045012>
MM hunters: Look at all that effort put in to mimic only a fraction of our power.
30m explosive shots 
frigid gyro
how is bladestorm vs ravanger in keys after buff?
minor gust
nah it def aint bad anymore
hollow plover
It's reap time
does sweep work with unhinged reap procs and ms casted reap procs just how we all imagine it works?
golden raptor
No slayer is still bad, like a retpala did near 5 million overall in Floodgate i did about 4
And i know i could've done so much more as colossus
Even single target i barely edged ahead
minor gust
untold trench
No slayer is still bad, like a retpala did near 5 million overall in Floodgate i...
5% of his dam is yours, add it to you and subtract from him. Warrior DPS matters!
rough sluice
and a fury nerf while were at it too
minor gust
@fresh spire Lil 14 priory action with the worst routing ive seen awhile
flat willow
REAPING
seeing cleave so low makes me uncomfortable
bladestorm almost looks like a real ability too
minor gust
almost
flat willow
minor gust
its 8am for me and I havent slept yet soo I coulda played better
I also didnt pot at all cuz idc
golden raptor
And how much did you lose in overall to all the other dps?
golden raptor
Yes i'd very much like to see
Damn, UH DK got nerfed that hard?
Or that player just failed
minor gust
no more like just a shit fotm reroller
minor gust
I wasnt potting and the route was also horrible
was also just a 14 key was pretty low
golden raptor
Yeah, but still feels bad
I don't know also what it is, but every button as slayer feels... Delayed?
minor gust
still it achieved fishys goal reap shitting on cleave
minor gust
prob woulda done more with collateral
golden raptor
Using collateral as slayer is so clunky
Due to bladestorm
And blizzard and unhinged decisions
Like why can't unhinged work with sweeping strikes
minor gust
because we cant have fun here
minor gust
but realistically it was prob to make unhinged not be so dominant as a talent
golden raptor
With Legion being an exception once you grinded hard and got lucky with legendaries
I'm not even sure how to open as slayer, what i've been doing is clapping, roaring and then bladestorming and only after that warbreaker + avatar
Since that feels like it gets the best results
Bladestorm feels like its just an another button that applies just an another debuff
minor gust
idk would be a sim question but def with the BS buff I feel like you would want to buff it with cds
minor gust
its def weak but 9% of my dmg there isnt a joke
idk if min maxing mbg window is that much more
golden raptor
Thing is
IF you send bladestorm with all cd:s while playing collateral damage well
Not great
Then your collateral damage will be ass, idk
But if i send all cd:s i just look at the damagemeter and the damage is so pitiful xD
And i feel like i just wasted time on warbreaker and avatar
And sweeping strikes
minor gust
your def not gonna have some bursty highs like colossus
especially on the first pull which sucks the most
I hate how imminent demise works
First bladestorm is ass cuz no stacks
golden raptor
That's why especially in the first pull
minor gust
I assume you can prob smack a dummy before key starts for it but that shit is cringe and I dont care enough to do that
golden raptor
Just send bladestorm alone
To debuff
And buff
Then pop the rest
In the first pull
minor gust
yeah I can see that for the first pull doing it that way
golden raptor
That's probably why it gives me the best results on dummies too...
minor gust
I wanna see what Fishy thinks hes been doing a lot of Slayer simming
slow saddle
Feels bad?
golden raptor
Colossus feels really bad to play too, because all tanks suck
slow saddle
It slaps ?
golden raptor
Yeah, feels really bad
golden raptor
And then you look at the meter
golden raptor
And the other classes are pumping 1.5 times harder
slow saddle
No way
slow saddle
Then u are struggelin
golden raptor
That's just how it is
slow saddle
1.2 mby
golden raptor
Still
slow saddle
But u do more st
golden raptor
As colossus if you get everything right you can 1-1 them
slow saddle
So seems fair?
dim basalt
You act like col doesnt do damage wha
flat willow
But u do more st
not anymore
dim basalt
Like, col can compete with a large majority of specs
slow saddle
I mean slayer deffo does better st
golden raptor
Colossus does damage, but it is so annoying and difficult to setup due to every tank not understanding how warrior works
slow saddle
?-? What?
golden raptor
Every mob is spread out everywhere too far
dim basalt
The only time I miss demolish in keys is when I dont pay any attention
slow saddle
I mean that sucls for aaaany melee
dim basalt
^
slow saddle
Ye if they are spread
golden raptor
Sure, but they have 360 aoe cleave
slow saddle
Alsp for uhdk spmewhat vamp strike
dim basalt
And tanks in somewhat higher keys arent terrible anyway
dim basalt
If youre only playing +12s then yeah, tanks will do random shit
slow saddle
Like shit is shit
dim basalt
hmm
golden raptor
Who i had to specifically tell
To not do a stupid weird ass chain
And to
Keep mobs clumped up
slow saddle
U think u might be a tad toxic m8😂
thick kelp
I wanna see what Fishy thinks hes been doing a lot of Slayer simming
we tcd something like cleave > opport > ms > op prio
in aoe
with long sweep etc
golden raptor
Its not toxic to ask
thick kelp
cleave tclap roar ava wb bs opener
golden raptor
I asked and explained in a civil manner why and asked nicely
Like a normal human being
slow saddle
I dont think any tank tries to split em
thick kelp
you can ss after bs / when mbg ends
slow saddle
Reap is real
minor gust
we tcd something like cleave > opport > ms > op prio
yeah I played the long sweep + Blord in that key
golden raptor
I feel like that's why many players have actually complemented my tanking, since i don't do weird chaining and i try my best to stack all the mobs
So that its clear for them in a pug that now they can full send
slow saddle
Weird chainin in 15+ seems weird
minor gust
we tcd something like cleave > opport > ms > op prio
Fishy also said to prio Cleave > MS > OP so I did that
golden raptor
Any time in a big aoe pack i press mortal strike i feel like my dps just goes to shit and i lose all rage and get ragestarved...
At some point
20% haste life :/
But that's what the sim says
Anyway time to leave ->
minor gust
reap fuckin harder than cleave in overall is a funny sight
untold trench
It happens more than you'd think
If there is only left nelee mobs that got no danger factor, why would you not just drag em into the boss or next pull pattern?
minor gust
but no collateral prob really kills cleaves dmg
candid pecan
collateral not worth as slayer? interesting 🤔
candid pecan
oh to have more reap procs from ms?
minor gust
yee
candid pecan
actually... long sweep with blademaster
is that 29 seconds? and then you sweep again 1 second later?
untold trench
do it
icy mulch
You lose out on collateral if you take long sweep though.
slow saddle
Any time in a big aoe pack i press mortal strike i feel like my dps just goes to...
rule of law play with shaman
untold trench
Would be funny if ya create a reap build so broken, it gets reap nerfed. Kicking Fury Slayer in the balls
icy mulch
Lol true, since arms can reliably proc it.
minor gust
Would be funny if ya create a reap build so broken, it gets reap nerfed. Kicking...
its funny how arms with cleave gets to a point where your procing reap every hit meanwhile fury still chillin at 5 targets and only a chance at procing reap
minor gust
slayer still behind theres not a world where reap gets nerfed
hollow plover
reap fuckin harder than cleave in overall is a funny sight
do you feel strong playing it
obv not stronger than colo
but strong enough?
candid pecan
Maybe they decide to revert Thunderous Words back to 15% bleed dam increase at all times . so we pick it in ST raid build you know?
hollow plover
Maybe they decide to Nerf Reap 50%, but buff BS 50%
thats a net nerf no?
minor gust
do you feel strong playing it
I mean im still doing decent dmg I dont feel like im trolling
untold trench
thats a net nerf no?
I hate Reap tho, I take it
slow saddle
i mean Frozenbozo dont u do better Boss dmg than most
minor gust
yeah as Slayer my boss dmg is pretty good
slow saddle
i feel like everytime theres some Funnel, i look at my avg and its not higher than col, but my boss dmg is
slow saddle
Hear me out
make bladestorm shorter on arms
i dont need to spin for 5 seconds
and make MS cleave from unhinged again
minor gust
i mean Frozenbozo dont u do better Boss dmg than most
this was final boss dmg
slow saddle
in
untold trench
Pretty solid
minor gust
was just a 14 priory
candid pecan
make bladestorm shorter on arms
yes plz, is bladestorm 5 seconds on arms because its an excellent CC immune in pvp?
untold trench
RIP big dam
slow saddle
isnt pulling 2 knigths
harsh pike
which slayer M+ build can i run? i never tried one yet
minor gust
which slayer M+ build can i run? i never tried one yet
This but can swap Blord for massacre and long sweep for collateral
icy mulch
I think I'll give the massacre a try.
naive sage
Fuck collateral shit talent
minor gust
Fuck collateral shit talent
then you can try what im trying
naive sage
Boring
minor gust
maximum reap
hollow plover
This but can swap Blord for massacre and long sweep for collateral
is dreadnaught rly necessary
flat willow
dreadnaught is the dream
the dream that doesn't work
dreadnaught is like all of arms in a single talent
minor gust
is dreadnaught rly necessary
if you are not playing what im playing yes DN is good you dont need the ST of SOA and DN does good dmg when your prioing cleave > OP > MS
flat willow
(separated in 2 talents)
hollow plover
but why are you prioring op over cleave when you are farming for reap
thats what i dont get
its so counter intuitive
thick kelp
cleave> opportunist procs > ms > op
hollow plover
cleave> opportunist procs > ms > op
that makes more sense
minor gust
but this reap build im doing Cleave > MS > OP
thick kelp
havnt simmed but feelycraft feels better especially with blord x)
minor gust
cleave> opportunist procs > ms > op
ill try that this key
hollow plover
idk i look at slayer m+ talents and that shit is looking awkward as hell
might just be me
could be fun tho
minor gust
idk i look at slayer m+ talents and that shit is looking awkward as hell
thats just arms in general
hollow plover
thats just arms in general
nah thats cope
arms is clunky, not awkward
not the same
minor gust
whats the difference
minor gust
its all g so many people have a different feeling on what clunky means
hollow plover
yea
at least we agree that it's not smooth feeling gameplay
that's what matters right
minor gust
yeah prob number 1 complaint arms gets by new people is it just doesnt feel right
that its awkward/clunky
harsh pike
yeah prob number 1 complaint arms gets by new people is it just doesnt feel righ...
im not new but havent played arms in a while, what is awkward to me is MS>OP in AoE
hollow plover
im not new but havent played arms in a while, what is awkward to me is MS>OP in ...
ms buffs/reduces cooldown on demolish or procs reap while overpower only does a small buff for cleave
i think it's valid
prio'ing MS over OP also avoids OP buff stacks being sent into MS instead of into cleaves
void bay
yeah prob number 1 complaint arms gets by new people is it just doesnt feel righ...
That's exactly why I don't play it, but I'm not a numbers guy, the spec has to be fun first
slow saddle
prio'ing MS over OP also avoids OP buff stacks being sent into MS instead of int...
i mean as slayer u prob prio op
esp with oppertunist procs
untold trench
I am just wondering where you guys fit in execute
fresh spire
Numbers look amusing. Can't tell if op or not. Numbers on sim at first said dn/op always but wanted to get some actual tests of how reap would be with full sending ms as the prio
I have yet to sit and rip the apl apart and rebuild it since it's been the down bad spec it's been somewhat neglected
candid pecan
well.. cleave> opportunist procs > ms > op makes sense, opp procs increase the dmg of dreadnaught too?
fresh spire
On sim dn>ms was higher. Though. I want to rebuild it using all conditionals and just move stuff around see where stuff fits
Poe been stealing my free time tho outside the extra raids this week 
candid pecan
icy mulch
Fuck collateral shit talent
But Collateral is a source of a ton of our dps.
Fury feels smooth enough, but way too sad on target cap to be worth it.
icy mulch
On sim dn>ms was higher. Though. I want to rebuild it using all conditionals and...
I can only assume that's when there are more than 2 targets? DN is not much on its own.
candid pecan
infiltrated a +13 Priory
minor gust
not tryna make something better than colossus that aint happening
sacred zodiac
But Collateral is a source of a ton of our dps.
A Talent can be insanely good and Bad Design simultaneously ye
See: half of warrior
Die AM die
dim basalt
In what way is AM bad design?
icy mulch
A Talent can be insanely good and Bad Design simultaneously ye
I won't argue that.
icy mulch
In what way is AM bad design?
It limits how strong our cool downs can be.
dim basalt
It limits how strong our cool downs can be.
Does it tho?
icy mulch
The way tuning has been this expac, who knows really.