arms

[hollow plover]

I just like how it's making me do some casual content at the very beginning of the season

first 2 weeks type deal

content overlap is good imo

[dim basalt]

But it doesnt

[untold trench]

You would do it anyhow, no? As there is nothing else to do

[dim basalt]

?

[hollow plover]

but thats more of a hot take

i realize that

[gray herald]

i spam keys like crazy first few weeks and never run out of valor then my main spends crests every week but and doesnt generally think about valor at all, sitting at 2k cap for most of its life

i start gearing an alt get some delves in and start doing keys

need to upgrade 50 pieces of gear and just hard 0 valor

all the time

feels horrible

[smoky kayak]

it has the same purpose as everything else, requiring players to engage with more game systems

[gray herald]

i never felt the need to do anything other than delves/keys for extra valor and I was going to do those for gear anyway

[smoky kayak]

can certainly say that you don't like it, but the purpose is very obvious

[gray herald]

(on my main)

[smoky kayak]

and yeah, they've made valor practically trivial for mains now, it's really only a problem on "weekly log-in alts" that don't get much actual playtime, which is something that warbound valor should help with

[gray herald]

it's the same on my alts, the most efficient way is just to spam keys, but im just bottlenecked by valor for upgrades and it doesnt feel nice

yeah it'll be nice when it's warbound for sure, that's a great change

[smoky kayak]

should be baseline tbh, hopefully they'll carry it forward from the start of the next season

[gray herald]

and i respect that all players are different and engage with systems differently

but for me it's just an extra bottleneck when im already spamming keys for gear/crests

[gray herald]

yeah if it is having a positive impact as a whole i dont mind it, but this would be nice

[smoky kayak]

I don't mind asking players to engage with game activities, and I do feel like upgrading should feel like an investment at all levels, even if it is a pretty easy one

But Valor is basically analguous to a gold cost; it's not limited and obtainable from practically any activity, so I don't know that you should have to farm it on each character individually - obtaining crests is enough

[fresh spire]

Die valor die

[lapis idol]

is execute phase always execute, execute, overpower, mortal strike?

i keep checking logs and i see this pattern but i dont get why overpower is thrown in unless ur just getting OP reset procs and u need to keep it on cd

talking specifically about 1arm bandit logs but this prob applies to every exe phase

[hollow plover]

you have time for 3 gcds between each mortal strike, opportunist buffed overpower is higher dmg prio than execute unless jugg is falling off. So what ends up happening is that we either MS > exe > opport > exe > MS or MS > opport > exe > exe > MS or similar, depending on when opportunist procs

[dim basalt]

ms opp exe opp exe ms is also a thing

[hollow plover]

ye

[thorny sable]

Is arms viable for mythic stix?

[lapis idol]

thank you for the answers

im being FORCED to play arms for 1ab and mugZ

[soft flower]

show em the logs

[thorny sable]

That answers that then haha

[hollow plover]

you should want to help prog out as much as possible imo

also arms isnt that much better than fury

on oab

[lapis idol]

they said they dont care if i do 0 dmg the entire fight but they need execute dmg. and then they showed me logs that even 50 percentile arms warriors do like 1.5M more dps than top parsing fury during execute

[hollow plover]

you dont actually need it tho

like

[lapis idol]

that's what they been sayin

[hollow plover]

dmg checks are fake nowadays unless people die

[lapis idol]

we have this shaman

named seymourshocks

that does that

[hollow plover]

but I mean i personally agree that you should go arms ngl

im biased, tho

[lapis idol]

im not an arms enjoyer

i like the fucken APM neurotic spam of fury

[hollow plover]

I mean i just think not going the better spec for a fight is disrespectful to your group

takes 10 pulls to learn

max

and it may convert a wipe into a kill

[lapis idol]

well i had to recraft all my haste/mastery shit

b/c my arms sims in that gear was so low

and then i recraft and shit is like 2.6M sims

vs 2M in fury gear

so its more than just swapping specs

[soft flower]

I got a question specifically about this part of dominance of the colossus, what does the stacks affect? the damage or the duration of the debuff?

it's 1% each stack, right?

and 10% is 10 stacks

[hollow plover]

that is a very normal thing and not a big deal at all

[hollow plover]

the wording "up to" should tell you that

[lapis idol]

yeah for sure but all im sayin is like just swapping specs isnt enough, i gotta recraft everything, resim enchants,gems, etc...

[slow saddle]

Not rly haste mastery is ok for arms

Like fr just change specs its fine

[lapis idol]

the difference in haste/mastery fury gear in arms ST spec was 600M dps

vs crit/haste gear w/ crit haste gems and enchants

thats not 'fine'

[slow saddle]

600m?

Doubt it😅

[lapis idol]

yeah for me it was litereally 2M dps vs 2.6M dps

fury gear vs my final arms gear

[slow saddle]

Yeah thats wrong

U dno how to sim then

[lapis idol]

and i swapped a 678 viscera trinket for a 6/6H Eye of Kezan

[soft flower]

it should but it can also be interperted as duration since it says "for 10 sec based on the number of stacks"

[lapis idol]

thats what it was idk what to tell u, they're just basic 5m patchwerk sims in ST talents

[hollow plover]

highly doubt that

[lapis idol]

ok

i had crafted wep, crafted neck, crafted gloves

and ring

[hollow plover]

that sounds more like you were in colossus m+ spec

simming ST

[dim basalt]

yeah something is off

[lapis idol]

i was def in ST spec, i know b/c i had my talent tree reset and ihad to grab from wowhead

[dim basalt]

mastery is a good stat so that just doesnt make sense

[native obsidian]

Nah no way

[hollow plover]

You dont have these sims in your browser history by chance, do you?

[lapis idol]

let me check

im at work but i might have simmed something here

i dont think i have it on here tbh, i can check when i get home

i can also maybe recreate w/ topgear

[hollow plover]

try and give it a go

i think you simply made a small simming mistake

you can have shit stats with a good weapon and still sim 2.4mil

[lapis idol]

u guys could be right honestly but im just going off what i remember

[olive nest]

In my arms ST gear I sim 2.6m

In the same gear as fury I sim like 2.48m

[hollow plover]

my arms sims 2.58 in my fury gear

or wait no i fucked it up, ignore that

[lapis idol]

my ilvl also dipped from 673 to 671 b/c of wep, trinket swap, but that improved my dps

my guild got me an eye of kezan for arms b/c i just had viscera and lock n stalk

[soft flower]

you guys have cracked ilvls, im like at 637, simming like 1.2m

[hollow plover]

i sim 2.575m as arms in fury gear (also this is an old simc string from 3 days ago)

[hollow plover]

637? you still in season 1?

veteran track goes up to 645

[vivid hill]

Really loves that Explorer gear

[soft flower]

I didn't play a lot of season 2, like 2 months?

I didn't even enter the raids

[hollow plover]

bro you did zero content

wdym didnt play a lot

😭

delves give better gear

what do you meeeeean

[soft flower]

I didn't do delves that much, I think I unlocked up to like rank 6 or whatever

[hollow plover]

did you play the game at all

o.o

[soft flower]

yeah I got 12k hours o-o

[dim basalt]

Almost like there are casuals

No need to be a dumbass

[hollow plover]

casuals dont go into skyhold talking about sims

[dim basalt]

Eh

Youd be surprised

[soft flower]

I used to do mythic raiding back in bfa

and I sometimes hop on here to check if I understand everything correctly

[native obsidian]

I mean you would really have to try and have an item level that low if you were playing the season at all

You are still getting champ gear thrown at you no matter what

[soft flower]

I did play the season, Im just playing all classes

each week a different spec

[hollow plover]

what content do you do

[soft flower]

mythic plus dungeons sometimes like low keys +2 or +3

sometimes just timewalking or heroic dungeons

if I dont have the time to look for a group

I do like 1-2 dungeons a week tho

[native obsidian]

that makes sense if you play a class for one week and then don't come back to it again

[soft flower]

yeah, I just hop from class to class

this is the ilvl of all my classes

the highest one is the warrior at 637

[lapis idol]

what if this dude is just like insane at pet battles tho

[soft flower]

more into mounts

[lapis idol]

that's a good number

i think im liike 550 or something

[soft flower]

playing the game for a long time 😅 I used to have a lot more time playing it hardcore back in like BFA, but nowadays im just playing it for fun, not stressed about gear

just enjoy learning all the specs in the game

[hollow plover]

I mean yea you're as casual as can be

still funny that you put in that much effort into sims and similar

[native obsidian]

I wouldn't call it casual really

[soft flower]

my wife doesnt think that haha

[native obsidian]

Because they are playing the game like crazy and spending a ton of time with it

[hollow plover]

let me paraphrase then

the time you invest into the game is plenty, but the level at which you play is very low, akin to a casual

[soft flower]

yeah I just dont have the time to sit and look for groups each time im gearing up for a spec I play for like a week tops, then once I feel like ive learned that I wanted I go to another spec and class

and by the time im done with 38 specs, I repeat the oldest one

[native obsidian]

It's not about groups or time. Even if you only did solo delves you could be 665+ by this point

[hollow plover]

yup

[soft flower]

I dont find delvs fun at all tbh it's just a loot piñata

[native obsidian]

It's just that the way you prefer to play your effort is so spread out

[hollow plover]

he just doesnt care about gear

valid, honestly

[soft flower]

yeah im here to have fun and do the most I can do with the gear I have, even if its 630 or whatever

it's all arteficial difficulty

[native obsidian]

You say you only unlock level 6 and then complain about it being a pinata

[soft flower]

I dont complain about it being that way, I just find it boring

that's why I dont do them

I used to do a lot of delves in season 1 tho

[native obsidian]

Gotcha

[regal wharf]

the one thing I hate in delves is uh

the beacon boss

the one you summon

it is absolutely ass to fight in the more confined delves

[soft flower]

that's probably the sweatiest I went for, but I dont know if it was worth it

sank way too much time into the game and it was less enjoyable than just playing for fun

at least in my personal experience

[verbal marten]

lol

all 12s is equal to CE i think

[olive nest]

The best gear in the game coming from mythic raid is the sole reason I deal with the hassle

[sharp wyvern]

now m+ players are gonna be even more mad

[olive nest]

I’m completely loot driven

[tacit crystal]

why would you be mad

[hollow plover]

PAJAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

[sacred zodiac]

ya this is good no

[sharp wyvern]

cause now they are forced to do 12s and not 10s for myth track

[tacit crystal]

every m+ who cares about the game slightly has been done with 12s 5 weeks ago

[hollow plover]

very

but only +12s?

[tacit crystal]

like

[hollow plover]

not 15s?

[tacit crystal]

that shit is so free

[verbal marten]

to me idc if m+rs get their loot

[sacred zodiac]

ye? why not

[verbal marten]

i just think its funny blizz thinks 12s is the same as mythic raid bosses

[steep osprey]

They don’t

It’s not the same thing

[soft flower]

What score is all 12s?

[tacit crystal]

no reason for it to be higher, because it also leads them to the 3k achievement

[tacit crystal]

like 29xx

[verbal marten]

they need to do all 12s for their trinkets and we gotta kill the mythic bosses for our trinkets

[sacred zodiac]

if they set 10 as the arbitrary number for myth track gear then getting to use one of your 3 opportunities to just grab an item on a myth track item should be +10s

[soft flower]

so it's like 10% of all m+ players

[hollow plover]

you can either spend your 3 dinars on mythic pacemaker which requires 12s or you can spend them on mythic jastor which require CE

[tacit crystal]

yeah guess what the raid trinkets are better

[olive nest]

All 12s for a myth track trinket or two is very very reasonable. Expecting the average M+ enjoyer to do all 15s is a tall ask

[steep osprey]

You’re also getting those m+ trinkets smart ass lol

[olive nest]

That’s literally 1% or lower of the population

[sharp wyvern]

but thats also what CE is

[verbal marten]

when ur wrong so u resort to insults

[steep osprey]

I am not insulting anybody

[sacred zodiac]

are you stupid

[verbal marten]

🥱

[olive nest]

Ok that’s fair the data shows top 8% I still think it’s very reasonable

[soft flower]

yeah sounds about right, only affects 8.6% of the m+ players

[regal wharf]

uhhh

not really?

[hollow plover]

whats mythic OAB %? Do we know?

[halcyon breach]

0%

[regal wharf]

because mythic raiding needs a lot more coordination outside of the game than M+

[sacred zodiac]

this isnt a full picture since literally no one has an incentive to push beyond +10s power wise

[quaint otter]

[shadow ibex]

These are % of a %

Like looking at any late boss or key above 10

[steep osprey]

Now I have to time all 12 keys even though I’m bored of m+, great

[shadow ibex]

We're talking % of a % of players

[hollow plover]

yuh, but its free

[soft flower]

of course, this also doesnt include any player that dont do m+ which is a majority of the player base

[shadow ibex]

I think all 12s is like Stix in difficulty

[steep osprey]

It’s not a good thing to be forced to do something you don’t wanna do but at least it’s not that bad

[thick kelp]

top tier ragebair

[sacred zodiac]

ok but its fair enough to ignore that dataset cause why the fuck do you want mythic gear when you dont even clear a single m+

[hollow plover]

those people can queue LFR and still get hero track items

[shadow ibex]

Maybe sprock with current gear nerfing

[tacit crystal]

bro all 12s can be slammed in 4 hours with a full stack

[verbal marten]

🤫

[olive nest]

Maybe I’ll catch some flak for my opinion but realistically the only reason mythic raid is harder than a + 12 is because you have to coordinate 20 people to do it correctly for 5-8 minutes

[shadow ibex]

Yea now

[olive nest]

Mechanically speaking they’re very comparable in my opinion

[hollow plover]

you're not forced to do it unless you want to buy dungeon items

[shadow ibex]

So can Stix with 670 ilvl

[hollow plover]

which you most likely don't

[steep osprey]

Well, I do

[rare kite]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[shadow ibex]

And raid buff

[verbal marten]

bro theres like 1 good dungeon trinekt for warrior and thats peacemaker

[soft flower]

because a lot of people in the game are loot driven, even if they just do delves or mount runs

[verbal marten]

now if they included delve trinkets

thatd be huge

myth track mecha or drink

[steep osprey]

All delves at t11 done

For buying

[verbal marten]

t11 delves = Ce

[quaint otter]

Try pug now

[regal wharf]

warlock green fire = CE

[hollow plover]

you get hero track items sir, that is only a little bit behind myth track items. Dinars will give a total of 3 items, it's not a big deal

[sacred zodiac]

then those players should be content not getitng hte loot if they dont play the game

like legit go play a clicker idle game

lmao

[regal wharf]

tbf at a certain point in the season im like

its whatever

[hollow plover]

wow should not be a sandbox unless achievement windows like CE or M+ titles are closed

imo

[soft flower]

gatekeeping much?

[olive nest]

I mean yes and no, really think about it. What do you have to do on sprocket for example? Dodge fire beams, dodge void beams, pop a bomb set in a coordinated manor, time a knockback gate twice.
If you’re ranged you have to bait drills.
Is it really that complicated?

[shadow ibex]

At this point in the tier no

[olive nest]

No, it’s “hard” because 20 people have to do simultaneously

[sacred zodiac]

pacemaker kind of best for some fights since they dont last enough for kezan to ramp up

[verbal marten]

kezan is lowk a dead trinket atp

[shadow ibex]

And it gets easier every week with gear

[sacred zodiac]

if its gatekeeping to tell you that wow is not a sandbox you can just equip yourself perfectly for logging in, then yes sure

[verbal marten]

itll maybe be good into next tier

[shadow ibex]

And raid

[tacit crystal]

NO I WANT TOURNAMENT REALM

bro

every week i want to play a new alt

[sacred zodiac]

i logged into tournament realm once, assembled a perfect character and logged off cause it was boring

noway

[soft flower]

I wonder, what do you think of a game like fellowship then?

[tacit crystal]

and i legit dont play it because i have to fully gear it before i can play the game

[soft flower]

in which gear isn't the point, but doing the dungeon is

[steep osprey]

I did this on some private servers, it was insanely boring

[tacit crystal]

idk i just want to do keys with friends

and not be a rat

and im tired of gearing alts

[soft flower]

finally someone who understands

[hollow plover]

wow isnt fellowship

[olive nest]

There’s a reason people sub for a month of a new patch and then quit before month two. The gear progression slows down significantly and that is the main reason a majority of people play the game

That and grinding the new mounts/pets

[soft flower]

I know

[sacred zodiac]

idk not looked into it too much but gearing is just as much part of the process of progressing content than doing the content itself is

in wow*

[tacit crystal]

spongus what guild did you join

[soft flower]

it's basically m+ without the gearing up part

[sacred zodiac]

yeah i mean i saw that much and i didnt look into it any further cause m+ is boring asf

[hollow plover]

there's still progression, it's not a full sandbox quite yet

[hollow plover]

real

[halcyon breach]

Fellowship I'd argue has done dungeon gameplay at least a bit more fun than M+ has

(Arguably also just me being jaded with M+)

[soft flower]

I didn't say there isn't progression, it's just not the point of the game, the point is to have fun doing dungeons with friends

[tacit crystal]

m+ in pugs

m+ with the boys

[hollow plover]

thats the main focus, but not the only point I'd argue

or else it wouldnt have any character progression

Regardless

that's not WoW

[tacit crystal]

i love pulling up to a random +10 with half the group being hof players

everything explodes

[hollow plover]

so real

I do keys with my lads, someone brings a trash 620 character, and the keys avg dps is still higher than pugs

people are so unbelievably shit

[shadow ibex]

I think there's room for a conversation about how wow has done a good job at making progressing your character really fun and unlike any other game but there's only a very few % who will ever complete that. I think the rich getting richer is weird and I'm someone who benefits from it

[hollow plover]

in 10s-15s

[tacit crystal]

sure, but the opposite is still true when i feel like im a detriment to my group playing an alt that should not be in a 10 but ik is the fastest way to gear it

and even then

im still outdpsint the average guy 20-30 ilvl above me

like what

just let me buy everythign on alts

its aids

[olive nest]

I clear mythic eventually and will be able to buy whatever raid item but I still think they shouldn’t have restricted the dinars based on difficulty

Does it really matter if bob heroic gamer gets a mythic house of cards?

[hollow plover]

if AOTC was the requirement to buy mythic jastor, would that make more people happy?

probably, right?

[olive nest]

Is he going to steal a HoF slot or steal a m+ title slot?

Obviously no

So who gives a shit if he gets to have a little extra feel good in his game that he pays for

[hollow plover]

idk ive never seen any HC raider look at mythic raiders in pure jealousy angry that mythic raiders get mythic items and they don't

[vocal tapir]

Spot on, I played a +10 ML last night where a 660 SPriest by the end of the dungeon had a 1.44M overall

[hollow plover]

it's more about m+ vs mythic raiding nowadays

[shadow ibex]

Why not just give them on login at that point?

[dreamy sandal]

Yup, was an easy W for blizz, but they seem to avoid those like the plauge

[olive nest]

On login effects the validity of early mythic progression/hof

[hollow plover]

idk I personally don't think i deserve mythic jastory rn since i dont have mythic gally killed rn

but thats just me

[olive nest]

When that’s over it doesn’t matter anymore imo

[hollow plover]

shrug

[tacit crystal]

bro my favorite song started playing

[shadow ibex]

If anyone can buy a mythic hoc everyone will

So why not just make a quest that gives one.

[olive nest]

Yes and that doesn’t effect me in anyway whatsoever

[shadow ibex]

Yes I'm saying why have it be dinars then

[olive nest]

My raid spot isn’t in jeopardy because some heroic gamer bought a mythic trinket so why do I care?

[shadow ibex]

Just hand it to us

[olive nest]

My log doesn’t go down because a heroic gamer bought a mythic trinket so why do I care?

[shadow ibex]

I think from a gameplay perspective it looks silly to have every player in your mmo use the same item

I'm not saying it is

I'm not talking about the effects on us at all

I think the problem is that most raid loot is bad except these items

[olive nest]

I think it should be deterministically earned like previous dinars and it should not be gated by difficulty

[shadow ibex]

Most loot period is bad

[olive nest]

On log in or directly from a vendor for 0 cost is bad of course

[shadow ibex]

And now we have to remember this is a real season

[hollow plover]

idk if myth track dungeon items were gated behind +17s or something, which i dont have completed, then i also would be fine with not having those items. Instead I'd use it as motivation to complete +17s. Identical with mythic raid items

but to each their own

[olive nest]

During the competitive “race” part of the season absolutely these items should be difficult to obtain

[shadow ibex]

And so next season must now keep in mind every player has bis

I'm not even talking about now

Next season

[olive nest]

Once that’s over and people have the raid on farm or are casually filling vaults I don’t think it matters anymore

[shadow ibex]

It's now tuned around every player having hoc and bis

If you don't you're fucked

And if it isn't then it's too easy

[olive nest]

They nerf trinkets season to season to force us to replace them so that argument is mute imo

The exception recently is the ring ofc

Idk why that’s still big

[shadow ibex]

Just like they did a great job nerfing cyrce

[hollow plover]

yea but that was on purpose

they made it competitive on purpose

theres a reason its 658 ilvl and not 639

[shadow ibex]

The content is still going to be done day 1

[olive nest]

Yeah I mean it would have been weird to grind this ring and then un equip it two weeks after it’s maxed or whatever timeframe it was

Suprised it’s better than mythic rings though for some

[shadow ibex]

Unless they go and buff bosses cuz we walked over them cuz every player has an insane 90 sec amp

And every 2h mace user a 2min amp

Fights would be so fucked

[hollow plover]

probably not intended

oversights happen

[olive nest]

My guilds going to kill OAB next week probably and we’ll all get to have HoC or a Best in Slots for most of mugz

On top of that the 9% raid buff

Or hell would we be at the 12% by the time dinar drops?

[shadow ibex]

Yes it's going to be a very different fight

[hollow plover]

yea u will skip last add spawns

and u will likely play slayer

instead of colo

type shii

[olive nest]

So yeah kinda makes me stand more firmly on my opinion. Does it really matter if heroic gamer gets the same items? To kill heroic gallywix a little faster

[shadow ibex]

Healing absorbs will be cleared faster less deaths to mine damage

[olive nest]

Idk doesn’t seem to bother me whatsoever

[shadow ibex]

No but it matters if every player has 1 imo

[hollow plover]

you only think about people below you from your own perspective, try to think from their perspective. Will they be incentivized to go raid more until end of season with items handed to them?

[olive nest]

Depends on the type of player they are

[shadow ibex]

I could kill mug tonight and my experience is going to be very different from yours and mine was different from someone 3 weeks ago

[olive nest]

Before I got into mythic raiding I would hunt heroic parses as a Prot warrior and I found a lot of enjoyment from that

And getting tossed mythic items would have felt so good

[hollow plover]

im also likely killing muggy tonight

🤝

[verbal marten]

guys check this amazing play by me last night

https://www.twitch.tv/fray24tv/clip/CulturedDependableManateeMoreCowbell-fcSvncUHfeM0Tnhl

[hollow plover]

disgusting ret pov

not watching that

[halcyon valve]

Amen

[shadow ibex]

If we didn't have a real season next season

[zenith lodge]

new recolored T2 for warriors yay or nay? personally I really like the color scheme

[shadow ibex]

I would say just give everyone mythic hoc login

[hollow plover]

you could ask in #transmog or #general also

[verbal marten]

i like it

[hollow plover]

im not a big fan of these t2 sets

for warr

[verbal marten]

monk got the best one tho

[hollow plover]

thick thighs

[zenith lodge]

ngl kinda thought I was lol

[olive nest]

The recolor for T2 is sick af!! Hollyy

[verbal marten]

new timewalking mount too

this is sick

[hollow plover]

they do be doing a good job ngl

thinking back the anniversary event patch was great too

[shadow ibex]

I only engaged with it for like 2 weeks

I liked that they gave out a ton of currency

I got everything p much

[smoky kayak]

it's fire af

[warped idol]

whats the most “optimal way” to sim m+?

[hollow plover]

no such thing exists, sadly. Play around with options and think about where every option falls short. sim 3mins ST for boss dam, 1min 30sec or similar for aoe pulls, enable and disable BL to see differences, check dungeon slice to make sure, although it's inaccurate quite often as well

everything needs context

never forget

[fast nebula]

where you get that or is it not out yet?

[zenith lodge]

its in 11.1.7, a wowhead post was just made about it

[fast nebula]

yea that so good

[prime bramble]

agreed, almost wish it was the OG color back in the day. Would have fit the nefarian theme better.

count our blessings though, could have been the original model still kekw

[shadow ibex]

We need a t4 retexture

[zenith lodge]

this one?, looks nice

[prime bramble]

next anniversary would be cool to get the ICC set redone

or might set

[shadow ibex]

Yea warbringer

Ahahaha

Maybe blizzard still has ptsd about warbringer

[misty sandal]

I can dig this

[covert charm]

So my group wants to try out a physical comp

Enhance, brew, me as warr, and feral. Which of the two specs would be best for for that comp? Sorry haven't played my warrior this patch much!

[teal fossil]

The unholy spec

Jk

Just play what you like

But arms in general is better rn

Though idk why people go through the trouble of building a comp for just 5-10% damage

Just play what you like

[covert charm]

Oh sure, my hunter is 670 and we can blast decent level keys, however we were just toying around with the idea for funsies

[shadow ibex]

I hope they never do another cyrce

I hate this thing I swear

[slow saddle]

Make it an amulet

👿

[rare kite]

you know they will

every single expansion

just like they will keep this stupid stacking raidbuff. negating all dps checks "ah we will beat it next week coz of 3% damage" dumbass raid buff

[shadow ibex]

They can't let gear nerf it cuz all the good items come from the last 1/3rd of the raid

And heroic loot is easy to get

[zenith warren]

do you guys play improved ss on the 2nd boss?

[hollow plover]

YES

sry caps

yes

[shadow ibex]

I also think extending is dumb at this point as well. The average middling ce guild gets punished for it mid to end season by their gear progression coming to a halt overnight p much

The buff helps with that but then it's just why even make people do it all

[lost lily]

Long time Fury player debating learning arms. How bad is the heave Haste/Mastery gear for arms. Saw that Crit is fairly high for arms but the lowest stat for fury. Do I need two gear sets.

[teal fossil]

Stats don’t matter bruh

Strength is your best stat

[shadow ibex]

No point worrying about stats between the two

[lost lily]

It would mostly be for keys. And I cant be assed with two sets. Annoyed enough carrying a shield/1h around from when I have to tank lol

And sounds good I might give it a try soon.

Havnt played arms at all since MoP so might take a minute to learn again.

[shadow ibex]

My old guild was a lot of "next week" prog. Never rekilled a CE boss or even a difficult penultimate boss p sure. It's an ugly spot for a grp to be in. I think that's who dinars are for in theory since they won't rekill oab for example

If 0 hoc drop on their first kill the whole roster just doesn't have that % increase and later bosses are that much more difficult

[atomic mountain]

https://www.wowhead.com/de/news/mythic-dungeon-trinkets-added-to-dinar-vendor-myth-track-needs-mythic-12s-376662

[rare kite]

then they should just nerf it, instead of having a "if we wait we don't have to meet a dps check" solution. i really despise the raid damage buff

[slow saddle]

I like it coz i get to kill bosses faster

[olive nest]

Big fan of the boss pathing in this raid. Kill vexie and literally go anywhere

Hope they keep that in future instances

For guilds like mine who raid 6 hours a week having options is great

Like hey we can reclear first 3 pretty easily but reclearing stix and sprocket would waste a decent amount of prog time

Or who knows maybe we jump in there and 1-3 shot them

But yeah options are good

[wooden willow]

Don't even have to kill vexie. Can go to any of the first 5 first

[olive nest]

Ahh true the little doorway under the stairs

[candid pecan]

so close

[echo plume]

🫥

[candid pecan]

[shadow ibex]

You're almost punished by success but then there's no loot worth anything from early on

But then again that just might be a problem for this tier. Stix rekills are infinite more difficult than whatever that guy before rash was

And rash is easier than sprocket

You could reclear while progging brood and princess and early raid loot wasn't awful cuz of versi neck and rash rare cloak

Vs now reclear while progging oab good luck

[olive nest]

Yeah that’s us right now

Not worth the time to do stix

[shadow ibex]

Maybe skips could be more generous

[olive nest]

Sprocket would benefit healers a lot but not worth the time

[shadow ibex]

I don't even think Stix is hard at this point but it's also negative fun and high chance to waste time

So not only is it the most annoying fight in years imo

Also just super easy to wipe

[olive nest]

Hyper complex boss design to combat addons is the reason we get annoying bosses like stix

[shadow ibex]

I assume at this point you can get away with hitting crabs as long as the big bombs are taken care of

[olive nest]

I wonder yeah probably can just heal through it

[shadow ibex]

You lose the boss damage as well should be OK with buff and loot

[errant goblet]

does anyone have that clip of the streamer getting his warbreaker parried on soulrender dormazin?

[shadow ibex]

The funny thing is I swear all of bfa wb couldn't be parried

I remember sending it on rogues in pvp with evasion up

[errant goblet]

they probably change there mind on it every other month

[shadow ibex]

Warbringer moments

[dim basalt]

addons and wa have nothing to do with stix mechanics

That boss has flawed design, thats it

[olive nest]

Yes, I’m just saying they cause Blizz to over cook shit like that

[dim basalt]

Theres always some gimmicky boss, coin flip whether its good or not

[shadow ibex]

No mechanics that don't let me play my character plz

I mean if he put us in a mech with alternative buttons I wouldn't mind that

But we aren't exactly steering a rolling ball in day to day moment to moment gameplay

[olive nest]

What did you think about flying up to get a fire orb on tindral?

[smoky kayak]

All the other bosses are blocked off by fire until you beat Vexie

[olive nest]

Minor inconvenience but still not hitting the boss

[smoky kayak]

You can go out there and you can fight a few LTs, but that’s it

[tacit crystal]

no?

[olive nest]

Ahh so it does require vexie got it

[tacit crystal]

i did a 3/8 going to rik first

[olive nest]

I’ve never attempted to not kill vexie so I’m not sure what’s correct

Nbd either way

[tacit crystal]

yeah

its only relevant for boe farming or pugs

so who cares

[shadow ibex]

It felt worse after nerfs cuz stuff was dead before you landed

[olive nest]

Yeah that’s actually very true

[soft flower]

Is there any benefit to using Rend if you have Thunder Clap talented into (colossus)?
Other than the no cd on rend difference, thunder clap is just objectively better even in single target, no?

[halcyon breach]

Rend is objectively better on ST

But it's very minimal

Effectively you can just keep using TC even on ST to save a keybind if you have TC talented

[soft flower]

ah I have them both bound anyway, it's no biggie, I used to use rend on single target and only use TC on AoE, but I felt like maybe it's just better to use TC anyway
how come rend is doing better than TC on single target Im interested, since we're comparing TC+rend vs just rend

[halcyon breach]

Because they both apply the Rend dot, but Rend's own initial hit is higher than TC

TC doesn't do Rend's initial hit on application

[soft flower]

ah-ha I see I somehow thought that the initial dot is incorporated into TC

[soft flower]

wish it was clear in the tooltip

[dim basalt]

my god

bandit is so annoying

Even less fun than stix

[olive nest]

I actually really dig OAB

[shadow ibex]

I hated it as colossus

[olive nest]

I’m assigned to leap out and get the ranged adds slot coin too and doesn’t bother me at all

[shadow ibex]

Came expecting silken

[olive nest]

51% last night with alot of goofing around

I’m excited for execute phase

Oh I’m doing slayer over Colo

[shadow ibex]

We kill mug tonight

21% I think

I was in jails but they took me out before we even saw them cuz warrior

In my old guild that would have been like pulling teeth. Explaining to them why putting classes with 15 stack of ramp in final phase

They would just think I'm trying to greed or something

I was like wait really? I had a whole message typed out about jug and taking 15 globals if it falls off etc etc

[olive nest]

That’s 100% going to be what my teams says too probably

We have a lot of “parses don’t matter” sentiment

[shadow ibex]

They don't but clas strengths exist

Idk I was with a team like that for years i forgot what it's like to have people who listen

[olive nest]

True yeah that’s always my counter argument

[shadow ibex]

And like actually know

[olive nest]

Like I’m not trying to be rank 1 I’m not that good

[shadow ibex]

What buttons do

[olive nest]

But I don’t want to feel kneecapped

Lmao

[shadow ibex]

Yea

Like dude it's a 15 stack buff

It's not even about greed or a parse

It's just efficiency and using the 20 pieces you have on the board the best

[shadow ibex]

I really hope we can get jug removed

.2

[hollow plover]

im in 2nd prison and last prison as arms

we didnt kill mug tonight

[verbal marten]

Or keep jug and remove the fact it depletes

Make it so jugg only applies in execute phase

[hollow plover]

yo @shadow ibex how many ppl do yall have per prison

[candid pecan]

removing/changing jugg would require too much brainpower. Just give us our 15% execute back

[shadow ibex]

I do second prison but only for as long as my void elf racial portal is alive

Aka I kick first and bounce p much

[hollow plover]

brother the 2nd prison im assigned to has 4 people in it, 3 dps 1 heal

i cant anymore

that shits wasted boss dam

Sadge

[shadow ibex]

I would just have it only decay outside of combat

We have me a dh and a healing monk

[hollow plover]

we get that goon to 50% hp within 3 seconds

[shadow ibex]

Dh and monk does it when I bounce

• whoever gets the actual prison

[hollow plover]

Sadge

[shadow ibex]

I'm in there to kick really

Healing monk idk what they do?

[hollow plover]

they have kick

[shadow ibex]

Fistweave

[hollow plover]

dh and monk heal have kick

[shadow ibex]

They kill it p fast just them

I told them to tell me if they need to stay

Need me to stay I mean

But they kill it slowish so they don't get ice lance

[lunar remnant]

do you guys macro signet to a cd?

what lines up w 2 min trinks?

[river ridge]

Technically Avatar at 6 Min

I just bind any 2MIN to CS

[wraith crag]

Hypothetically, assuming blizzard nails their single button helper, what would the % off sim be of a single button helper given the 0.3 gcd?

[shadow ibex]

how could we possibly know that

[proper atlas]

lol is it worth playing arms on mythic stix ?

[frigid rose]

!wa

Oh barnacles

Any recommended WA packages?

[tacit crystal]

go to wago

search warrior

have fun

[minor gust]

No one knows and I doubt anyone really cares to figure it out. The penalty already confirms it will be straight up worse than playing normally. The 1 button feature is strictly for people with disabilities or casuals who don't care about performance and just wanna vibe.

[grand idol]

Even the mode where it just highlights the next ability, at least in the preview, wasn't showing up until after you hit the previous ability. So it too when played to its peak will be worse than manual.

[minor gust]

Shits just gonna get outdated anyways and be awful. They said they would keep it updated with the latest theory crafting but we all know blizzard and that will never happen

Shit is good for disabled people and casuals/new players which is overall probably good for the game.

[shadow ibex]

when is this parry hotfix

i got my CS parried by a trash raid mob

[minor gust]

if you still got a cs parry sounds like its not being implemented till restart

[bold granite]

Can we leap out of Mugzee prisons?

[shadow ibex]

no

you can but the timing has to be perfect

[bold granite]

so yes then

okay

just checking if rl is on crack

[shadow ibex]

its not reliable

like 1/100

so technically yes but not at all relevent for prog

[smoky kayak]

not practically, no

[vestal isle]

I love pressing bladestorm then hearing its a wipe

[smoky kayak]

you theoretically can, but the timing is so exact that you're practically begging to misplace and cause a wipe - there is no strategy on any level that suggests Warriors try to escape cages (aside from VE racial, ofc, though that's really not necessary anymore)

[copper summit]

do i throw execute when ever in slayer as arms or no wait for 3 stack or when it about to fall off or spam

[tacit crystal]

3 mfe 2 sd sd falling jug falling

[shadow ibex]

[copper summit]

kk good

[cobalt isle]

What's the diff between damage profiles for arms and fury? Is one better for m+?

[shadow ibex]

fatal feels fun on mug but less tactic proc chance

well popping fatal is fun on mug

[regal wharf]

i hate pugging 10s

now I have a workshop 9 that NO ONE is going to join

[light dirge]

would running slayer for boss damage be worth in m+ in general?

[shadow ibex]

its aoe is really bad

[potent creek]

also jug stacks maintain is cancer in m+

[minor gust]

well that seems to be your problem why you playing jugg in M+

[flint ridge]

Rotational question:
with Am demolish and warbeeaker desync. In m+ i just keep em on cd? Or do i want to line them up as much as possible?

I.e always hold waebreaker for the next demolish and keep demolish on cd?

[thick kelp]

hold demolish for wb if the cd of wb is around 10s or less

[odd crest]

It is better in ToP

[narrow flax]

on 8 you'd have plenty of people i think

[cosmic fossil]

[balmy kindle]

Deserved for taking fire mage also double caster is bad and you can't tell me otherwise, your average m+ ape does not CC nor interrupt

[stable osprey]

small question, durting sweeping strikes? what's the priority to press?

[rare kite]

It's not. But you are allowed to cope

[latent moss]

slayer arms in anything that isnt pure st is just

bad

and tbh

even in pure st it aint htat good

if u want more st play fury

but personally i dont think

a bit more st outweighs the amount of 2t in that dungeon and just how good colo is at 2t with long sweep and blademasters

basically the point is

slayer arms has no purpose in m+

u can just play fury

[rare kite]

Yupp

[quasi torrent]

why do all 3 hero talents for dps warrior just make the class worse

any knowers

[severe haven]

Slayer I understand

Thane and Colossus are awesome

[quasi torrent]

L take my king

[severe haven]

lmao

[latent moss]

ngl colo 2t feels good af

swimming in colossal might

infinite stacks

tbf exhil blows makes it feel good

[tacit crystal]

me when perma eb procs during ss

and my demo is half the cd

[cerulean acorn]

I assume its quite rare but should I press 3rd overpower in execute range if I get this sequence based on rotation priority?
MS -> Opportunist -> OP (2nd stack) -> Execute -> (Opportunist/Execute -> Execute/MS) -> MS

Wowanalyzer seems to think that way, so Im curios

Wowhead prio seems to put exe on 3rd cast in that sequence so I guess it shouldn't happen

mby im just confused from multiple prio lists 😄

[tacit crystal]

assuming this happens again

[quasi torrent]

still includes pressing demolish

and the stacks are still highly random

[tacit crystal]

i think the best sequence would be:
ms oppor exe until 2 eep and weaving oppor ms if 2 ep even if oppor

[cerulean acorn]

Ye I'm going with that rn and seems to be doing good

[rare kite]

Thane good. Rest sucks

[quasi torrent]

"why did my cowarrior do 15% more dps than me?"

oh he procced LS twicea as much

whoopsies!

[thick kelp]

slayer strike procs gg

co warrior had BS ready for first barrels on rik

[quasi torrent]

its all awful

[rare kite]

Tru. But atleast thane playstyle wise just feels like fury, press rampage. No execute and rb conditionals

[tacit crystal]

yeah

but it does 0 damage

would rather play s3 df or current

[naive sage]

Thane = big ass lightning
Thane wins
I will not argument further

[rare kite]

What does 0 damage?

[tacit crystal]

thane

st

i mena it does

but slayer just does more

[rare kite]

Sure, but this raid has like 2 st fights

Thane good on fights with lots of aoe. Stix and oab(good for a warrior there)

[gray herald]

2 thane fights

[tacit crystal]

id slit my wrists before i play thane on oab

shit is so boring

[gray herald]

i dont like warrior on oab at all

maybe i play slayer arms on reclear

idk

[tacit crystal]

slayer arms feels fun getting jug

but also kinda annoying when we just wipe early bc first night

[hollow plover]

full agree

warrior feels ass on oab

the timings are awkward as shit

and the movement gravity thing sucks

[rare kite]

I stand by thane being decent on rik. Not better than slayer but still good. Got rank 31 as thane(at the time)

[hollow plover]

sandbagging, are we?

[gray herald]

i hated slayer on rik ngl

but i dont think thane is better

[rare kite]

Thane fun. Rik was gonna die anyway

[hollow plover]

real

[tacit crystal]

guys

warrior is just designed bad

🙂

[gray herald]

im actually really excited to reclear next week

[hollow plover]

yea its just that isnt it

[gray herald]

freedom

[rare kite]

It's not, i just like thane. Being able to get rank as 31 as thane means it's viable atleast

[hollow plover]

rik, oab

[gray herald]

there's a thane at rank 13 and rank 31 on rik

def viable

[tacit crystal]

yeah but then you are actively playing fury

me when i spam rb and execute does 0 damage and your damage is hindered on getting mfe procs to perma bs

[rare kite]

[gray herald]

fury was giga fun on some fights

i enjoyed it a lot on gally

im still a fury lover

[minor gust]

Blord colossus feels great on OAB

very fun

[gray herald]

i didnt vibe with it when i played it for a bit on prog

switched to fury and had a better time (also didnt like it particularly)

[minor gust]

so far on prog I find it the most enjoyable compared to fury or slarms or jug colossus

[shadow ibex]

I just couldn't get it to work I actually hated it

I was expecting it to be like silken fun

Silken probably must fun fight as arms so far i think. That or rash imo

[minor gust]

Were you playing blord or Jugg. Blord basically fixed all the timings for me. Makes it very consistent while jug Colossus relied heavily on rng

[shadow ibex]

Ider I would hope not jug cuz I hate jug

[minor gust]

A lot of Colossus logs were playing Jugg started with that didn't like it at all. The. Saw Critcake did a kill with blord tried it and it feels great currently pumping with it. Should get a 98 or 99 on kill if I don't die

[dim basalt]

I've only tried col with jugg, maybe should give it a try with blord

But I kinda got used to slayer now

[vast drum]

what dungeons are worth swapping to Fury for? Maybe ToP?

[minor gust]

Whenever you wanna play fury

[vast drum]

I enjoy both specs equally so just wondering if its viable in any of the dungeons compared to arms

[slow saddle]

No

[minor gust]

It's viable in all dungeons

[slow saddle]

If viable means better

[spiral coral]

They’re both viable. Arms will do more overall. Even on ToP.

[vast drum]

Ight ty

[slow saddle]

Top has bosses wherebu get bigncleaves

[spiral coral]

From my experience. Trying my best to make Fury work. It works. But, for me consistently Arms is higher.

[minor gust]

It's just overall who cares

[spiral coral]

Not I.

Details is the devoid of happiness.

[minor gust]

You can get title as fury no problem

[vast drum]

I just want to be as useful as possible as my group starts to get into 15s lol

[spiral coral]

I did 💪

Fury is funner

[minor gust]

Then reroll to a different class

[spiral coral]

Reroll

[vast drum]

Damn, unholy time ig

[spiral coral]

UH DK is wrecking

[minor gust]

Or have fun and play whatever the fuck you want it's a video game

Your not gonna fail 15s because a lack of dmg

[spiral coral]

I’m going to stay on Warr. It’s just pugs and I play what I enjoy.

All my other alts besides Fire mage kinda bore the shit out of me

[spiral coral]

I really wish this was said louder. There’s very little gatekeeping into the highest content anymore imo.

[rose matrix]

Thing is if you play Fury in 15s you're pretty much actively being boosted cause your spec is so ass

[minor gust]

Not true at all but go on

[spiral coral]

It’s not that detrimental.

Boosted? C’mon.

[rose matrix]

I mean if your group doesn't care it is fine but Fury is abysmal in any key outside of top

[minor gust]

Pugging is always gonna be gate keepy because that's the nature of pugging make friends play with them gg it's an MMO afterall

[slow saddle]

I mean a bit

[naive sage]

Imagine getting in a 15 (even with a more wanted spec like elemental or enhancement)

[spiral coral]

But what you’re saying is completely reflected by us not getting invited to shit @rose matrix so I’ll shut up

You right

[slow saddle]

But arms does almost competitive dmg

[rose matrix]

I love Fury but it is so bad and you have almost no utility

[minor gust]

Stop pugging

[slow saddle]

Please stop with utility

It does not matter

[rose matrix]

It does when you bring low dps

[slow saddle]

No

Low dps matters

Is all

What utility does dk bring that does any difference?

[spiral coral]

https://tenor.com/view/truman-truman-burbank-jim-carrey-jimcarrey-carrey-gif-12019048163130260142

[slow saddle]

Big dmg

[spiral coral]

Discord Truman show

[rose matrix]

DK brings the best damage in the game

So idk what your point is

You're comparing the best DPS to the worst

[slow saddle]

For real ppl harping about utility

Is just dumbass

5% ap is good

Make phys team.

[rose matrix]

Alright so half the DPS of Unholy then you got fury?

[slow saddle]

Nah its not that bad

Overall

[naive sage]

If I had to make a group with my friends I would not progress and I don’t know how to make a premade group

A stable one I mean

[rose matrix]

I mean you asking what utility does DK bring is dumb

They bring extremely good damage

[slow saddle]

So could we

So stop saying warrior needs util

It needs just dmg

Thats all

[rose matrix]

It needs something

Is what I said

[slow saddle]

Meta is 99% dmg

.9

[rose matrix]

If you have no damage then at least bring utility

[slow saddle]

No utility will make them pick fury

[latent moss]

give us something cool

[minor gust]

Then stop playing pugging is a genuine waste of everyone's time. I only push M+ if I have people to play with.

[rose matrix]

Right now fury has niether

[latent moss]

safeguard would be nice

or mass spell reflect

increase rally in 5man content

maybe even old vigilance

[slow saddle]

Fury has raid

[latent moss]

though that would be op

asf

i think

sac without the downsides

is kinda xd

[naive sage]

Should I just stop playing wow then lmao
No progress in guild, no progress with rio, why should I even play if I don’t have fun

[slow saddle]

I enjoy puggin keys

Just accept route is a bit longer

[minor gust]

Sounds like you should then

[naive sage]

I will keep on pugging if there’s no other way

[slow saddle]

I dont thilk puggin is to bad

Think*

[minor gust]

We'll have fun sitting in que for hours just to fail the key

[slow saddle]

Play own key

As i said the longer route

[minor gust]

Still gotta fill the group which takes almost just as long

[slow saddle]

Queue similator ofc is rough at times

[minor gust]

Couldn't be me you know what happens when we fail a key

We go right to the next

[rose matrix]

Yep as warrior you don't really get invited to higher keys unless you run into a phys comp

[gray herald]

warriors discover they have different opinions and ways to enjoy the game

[slow saddle]

Only keys i queue to

[rose matrix]

Fury isn't getting invited to anything

[slow saddle]

As u said no point trying any other😅

[rose matrix]

Arms is a lot better than some people think

[slow saddle]

Queue as arms

Play as fury

Arms is quite good

Mid+?

Tbh i havent gotten into 15s+ yet so dno

[olive topaz]

Should I just bank my gilded crests until the new crafting ilvl upgrade item comes out?

[slow saddle]

No

Send all

New season,comes with no cap

[patent stream]

arms is probably like A+ tier in phys comps, but dogshit in every other comp

[slow saddle]

Ye 5% is 5%

[olive topaz]

I’m nowhere near cap as I only started playing again a few weeks ago

So thought it might be better to just accumulate a lot of them

[slow saddle]

Still no poont

Crafts cost 60 now. To max em next tier u need to buy new part for 30 crest

[slow saddle]

I would at least upgrade my mythic pieces

[olive topaz]

Ah so the new part costs more crests anyway

Thought it might be an alternative currency

[slow saddle]

Y

[gray herald]

is that confirmed? I havent seen the cost of it

[patent stream]

yes, but every crest you use now, you will have to use at some point anyway, so, just send them

[slow saddle]

Yes

[patent stream]

yes was on wowhead yday

[olive topaz]

Okie dokie ty guys, so there’s no downside to crafting now then

[gray herald]

ok i hadnt seen ty

[patent stream]

no, you will need the same amount of crests in 2 weeks to craft the exact same items 😄 only difference will be the extra upgrade for +6 ilvl

[gray herald]

do we know yet if the gilded discount applies to the extra 2 levels on myth items

from the gilded of the undermine

[shadow ibex]

They should be revealing next tier soon no?

Maybe xbox summer game something

[minor gust]

I would assume after the .7 patch releases

[strange perch]

Considering potential release date for 11.2 in late July/early August and that we are in may … also take into account time-gated Arathor questline (see kirin tor legacy) 11.7 will release in the middle or June.

[dim basalt]

Early August release would be horrible

[shadow ibex]

11.7 we know comes out in a few weeks

[minor gust]

Jugg removed in 11.2 I can't wait

[flat willow]

Grab, mass grab, anti magic zone is 50 times stronger than rallying cry

and the best of all

they take 0 damage even in +17

[slow saddle]

Mass fap is tank

[flat willow]

they all have abo limb which carries a lot of pulls

[slow saddle]

U got dh

But dk bein near immortal

Is insane

[gray herald]

I think dk doing a bajillion more damage that any other spec trumps any utility anywhere

[flat willow]

after the nerfs in season 1, frost dk didn't do a bajillion more damage than any other spec ( that was the role of enh )

and they still saw a lot of play

[slow saddle]

Breath was still great burst dmg

[slow saddle]

Ye so freck utility. Give us more dmg

Make spear do insane dmg

Spear into demo into big col

Prayge for crit

Oh y and spear every 45sec

[soft flower]

In the AoE priority, could someone please explain the reasoning behind why Overpower is above Mortal Strike with Sweeping Strikes?
shouldnt it be mortal strike->execute->overpower (during sweeping)

[hollow plover]

simple, it is not

[slow saddle]

Its not

Cleave - ms spam is life

[soft flower]

so it's a mistake?

[hollow plover]

Is this icy veins?

if yes

[soft flower]

yeah

[hollow plover]

yea

kekW

[soft flower]

@smoky kayak shots fired

[slow saddle]

I dont tc that often either. But i dno how it spreads

[hollow plover]

Icyveins gets updated the least iirc

[slow saddle]

If it prios non targeted mobd

[soft flower]

that page was updated april 21st

[hollow plover]

something else on that page, potentially

doesn't have to be the aoe rotation that got updated

[soft flower]

I see, I was looking at the icy veins guide to see if I missed something about the aoe priority and I was suprised to see it, thought I was doing something wrong

[hollow plover]

the icy veins guide has no mention of how to play around collateral damage

i get it being a beginners guide

but that's an entire thing that arms players should learn to play around

looking through it, theres multiple pain points in the icy veins guide for arms

[soft flower]

could you elaborate further or direct me to a source so I can read about it?

[hollow plover]

Collateral Damage is a talent that turns a singular cleave into what we call "big cleave" or "thick cleave" or anything similar. If combined with Merciless Bonegrinder, Ava and Warbreaker, you get a cleave hitting for multiple millions on each target. I believe Critcake got 90million damage in a single cleave cast in priory one time

[tacit crystal]

its more so something you just mess up and so again to improve results

[shadow ibex]

I don't think cd is important to play around at all

[hollow plover]

It's an optimization that you don't need to play around, but it let's you skyrocket your damage

[slow saddle]

Please just remove slayer from arms

Ive given up on them reworkin juggernaut

2 tiers weve told em its shit. Yet nothing

[shadow ibex]

2 expac now we tell them dance of death is shit

What can you do

[hollow plover]

Also, in my personal opinion, learning to play around collateral damage is REALLY GOOD for learning to be a better arms warrior, actually playing around it isn't even that important. Just the act of thinking about cooldown timings, uptime of different buffs and the necessity to track it to some degree will immediately improve beginner arms warriors

[slow saddle]

Y like u dont hold all the time

But if u got stack rdy why not make it fatter

[hollow plover]

^

[tacit crystal]

im not goong to read this bc my favorite song is playing so im happy and only paying attention to it

[shadow ibex]

Our debuffs are up so frequent I don't think it's that big a deal

The only thing that isn't is avatar because it's a hard locked 90

Wb has like 50% uptime overall

[soft flower]

Why do you think it's not that important? is it hard to perform this optimization or just isn't worth the % increase?

[hollow plover]

if you force big cleaves, you end up losing damage because you're over holding some buttons. Thinking about it too much isn't very good

but the idea is that once the stars align, and it does happen every dungeon, you send a fat cleave dealing multiple millions of damage

but u need to be aware of it

[soft flower]

Yeah thats what I thought as well, because im holding cleave for a few seconds to empower a future one, so is there like a range of where to stop?

[rain cipher]

i have a quick question, just now i noticed when i sent Ravager, my collateral buff got consumed. why is that?

[hollow plover]

there's so many ever-changing factors, like mob count, how long you would have to hold some buttons and similar, that it's not worth thinking about it too much or holding too much. But if you know you can combine warbreaker + ravager + collateral damage cleave without having to hold cleave for like 5 seconds, yknow?

big cleave

😋

cleave is the main aoe button for arms, holding it artificially is detrimental

so if you can align the cleave modifiers without holding artificially, then there ya go

it's just that some people click cleave a tiny bit too early so they end up wasting it

like 2 gcd's too early

[soft flower]

exactly what I was thinking as well

I'm not sure how many stacks is too much or too little

like whats the context

[hollow plover]

stacks of collat?

[soft flower]

yeah

because any gcd I spend using ST abilities with sweeping is a cleave I don't cast potentially

[hollow plover]

oh you don't purposefully send more ST spells over cleave

just to stack collat

nono

[soft flower]

OH! okay

now it makes sense

[hollow plover]

It's just that once you do have collat, pretty much regardless of how many stacks tbh, you should try and combine it with other modifiers without artifically holding cleave

[soft flower]

got it

[hollow plover]

it's one of those things that are very satisfying when they overlap, but you should never force them to overlap, because that just means you missed out on a shitton of uptime

but you need to be aware of it, or else you waste some modifiers

I think you get what I mean

[soft flower]

yeah yeah 100%

it should be natural with your regular aoe priority, and once you noticed alright my sweeping is about to end, what modifiers I got available to lay out a fat cleave

[hollow plover]

yea exactly that

sometimes you stack collat so high from a previous fight that cleave ends up dealing 7mil or more single target damage on a dungeon boss

[smoky kayak]

I mean, kinda overselling it a bit - Collateral lets you scale big hits but it’s pretty passive in general

• Press Cleave, which you use almost on CD anyway, to build a bigger cleave isn’t exactly the height of rocket surgery

The actual skill you’re referring to is basically the same as any cooldown - knowing when to save cooldowns and when to spend them. In the same way that sending Warbreaker on a dying pack is worse than saving it for the next pack around the corner

[hexed snow]

No more Colossus Parry