arms

[shadow ibex]

idk if it does on ptr tho too lazy to check

[olive nest]

Yeah SS mid charge is pog

I started doing that too

[minor gust]

better to hold off on the demolish for 10 stacks

very easy to get before cs falls off in aoe

this will also allow for collateral to sync with demolish dmg buff

[shadow ibex]

thats only 10% i dont stress the actual demo amp much ngl

[olive nest]

Hmm yeah idk I’ve played around with both and it seems better to send it asap

[shadow ibex]

its cool that its there for sure

[minor gust]

its not much but its there

[olive nest]

Because you can get it back and use it again in the same pack sometimes

[minor gust]

your mostly just holding for 10 stack demolish because you can and big aoe dmg

[olive nest]

Or prep next pull with a 10 stack and a big collateral

[shadow ibex]

u know the sweeping + ravager thing yea?

[rare kite]

the amp doesn't matter as much, but demolish itself doing double damage is big.

[shadow ibex]

u get 10 stacks insta

[minor gust]

if you already have demolish at 10 stacks from a previous pull yeah just slam that shit after WB

[olive nest]

Yeah very first pull of the dungeon I send a natty demo

The rest I try to carry a 10 stack

[minor gust]

just not needed

[olive nest]

Not saying I’m 100% optimal

[minor gust]

yeah

[olive nest]

It just feels right

[minor gust]

I get you

just easier

[olive nest]

Yeah I’ve also tried holding demo until after MBG ends because it’s always at 10 stacks

[shadow ibex]

after the ravager sweep tech i cant not do that

just too fun getting 10 stack off like 5 seconds into pull

[heady marlin]

Where's arms at in the DPS rankings of the patch Tuesday

[rare kite]

in raid upper half

[heady marlin]

Keys not so hot?

[olive nest]

[rare kite]

we're fine in keys as well, not meta. but pretty good

[heady marlin]

Gotcha. Can't decide between arms, 2h frost or enhancement

[shadow ibex]

m+ is p one note ur gonna be pressing the cleave key a lot

[rare kite]

if you enjoy all those equally go enhance xD

[heady marlin]

That's what it keeps coming too lol sounds like enhancement is just nuts I guess @rare kite

[icy mulch]

Hmm who posted the ST Raid build from the sims?

[rare kite]

enhance big good. also designed very well, arms big good but design wise a mess

[icy mulch]

Was that Walhe?

[rare kite]

yeah

[icy mulch]

Hmm why is it not coming up?

[shadow ibex]

the spec tree is pretty similar to current just drop sks+2bb for EB and FB

[rare kite]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hqGgzoHj5BePixqVDAhhDU can check html report for what build is used

[icy mulch]

Thank you thank you

[rare kite]

he posted this in crits stream. prob the latest sim

[next vessel]

What is the ravager sweep tech?

[tacit crystal]

you press ravager during ss to stack demolish fast

[noble oxide]

cant wait to not play sks

[silk spade]

real

[brittle fiber]

is there ever a world where merciless bonegrinder is strong in dungeons with tons of smal ads

oh wait can only trigger 3 times max

[shadow ibex]

dance of death?

the extension also doesnt work with mbg

[teal fossil]

Yeah was about to say

Bonegrinder is already good

It’s just a bit hard to tske

It’s good at its job

[shadow ibex]

i like big cleave but i hate that i do other stuff during mbg buff

u WB and demo during it etc

5target 11.1 sim gets 3 mbg buffed cleaves

obviously reset rng as well

[viral garden]

so it's arms season for M+ ?

[minor gust]

meta no good yes

[viral garden]

Warrior is never meta

[desert burrow]

Hey, is there a total demolish damage weakaura? i know its not useful or anything but would be fun to see ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[finite wasp]

ngl i wish dance of death would just flat extend ravagers uptime its basically useless right now

actually that would be op as fuck so probably not

[fair topaz]

Do the nerfs to our bleeds change our talent setups for 11.1?

[rare kite]

Yes. No more sks

[dusty depot]

Thank god

[quaint cosmos]

so looking at logs seems like we use fiecrce followthru over oppurtunist

does that mean we dont spam overpower anymore as the no 1 damage source?

[thick kelp]

u need to sim it yourself

if opportunist is worse

But if yes

then you follow the priority whilst ignornig the opportunist moments

[quaint cosmos]

oh ok so its a sim angle

hmmm

[cloud gyro]

its a pick what u prefer angle 👍

[rare kite]

Might as well get used to oppotunist

Far ahead next patch

[quaint cosmos]

zzzzzz

[dim basalt]

Doesn't Opportunist play itself

[boreal quartz]

There's some considerations with it as far as sd n stuff go iirc

[eager sigil]

it doesnt

you can eat procs since its not procced by itself

[dim basalt]

Sure but with our S2 talent setup as of right now it does feel more natural to play around it

Since you're never going to send MS MS in case of a reset

With EB

[eager sigil]

yea i thought you meant plays itself like fierce does

[dim basalt]

I don't even know what fierce is

[eager sigil]

ms buffs next ms

[dim basalt]

Ah

[red pond]

hey folks. in arms rotation. how often do use slam?

[cloud gyro]

on ST often

[clever loom]

isnt it still a filler when you have absolutely nothing else left to press on ST?

[eager sigil]

yes

[naive sage]

Yes and it happens painfully often

[halcyon valve]

As little as possible but you have to when theres nothing else (everythings on cooldown)

[red pond]

folks in raid should i go arms or fury?

[boreal quartz]

whatever u prefer until you do very high wr prog

[uncut nymph]

hey there im trying to get into arms (long time prot warr)now i want to get a new view any rotation creators you recommend easy to understand i learn better by seeing than looking at wowhead or icy veins 😄

[slow saddle]

ye coz we dont play the talents that makes us not slam 😭

[rare kite]

Madox just released a guide for next patch

[uncut nymph]

ty very much

[clever loom]

any link?

[eager sigil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZaiZEnlE_M

[clever loom]

tyvm good sir

[dreamy sandal]

Any macro egineers that can tell me why this macro is not working?

#showtooltip Sweeping Strikes
/cast [@player] Ravager
/cast Sweeping Strikes

[trim lintel]

both spells are on gcd

so pressing the macro once will trigger the first one

[dreamy sandal]

Yeah but it does not press sweeping strikes even after the ravager has been cast

[snow flame]

Arms plagued by gcds

[dreamy sandal]

Tried doing a cast sequence as well, but it just does not cast sweeping strikes at all when i use @player for ravager

and when i reverse it, so

#showtooltip Sweeping Strikes
/cast Sweeping Strikes
/cast [@player] Ravager

It does not cast ravager at all

Thought I could get them to cast after one another, like my avatar/warbreaker macro

[thick kelp]

they are both on the gcd

so no

instead

l2p

[dim basalt]

Shots fired

[dreamy sandal]

Sadge, dogshit gcd

Just wanted to save a keybind on this overbloated spec

[thick kelp]

sure

unbind rend

and only use tclap

[dreamy sandal]

I have macroed my charge button to use rend in melee, for single target

So I am saving a button there

[swift crown]

This is the way

[brittle fiber]

macro tclap and rend togheter

[swift crown]

/cast [known:tclap] tclap
/cast Rend

Yeppers

[brittle fiber]

i still havent bound avatar to TR or CS

[lunar remnant]

I bounded avatar to CS idc fight me lol

[thick kelp]

l2p issue

[lunar remnant]

ehh I got a few 99s last season using macros don’t think it’s make or break it

But we only got 4/8m so not that sweaty

But yes optimal play = don’t use macros

[brittle fiber]

ive had avatar on shift q since bfa

just can't put it in with something else

[lunar remnant]

did not know about the TC / rend macro though that just saved me a binding so may take avatar off the macro now

[slow saddle]

ok ngl playing demo in raid way more fun

than slayer

to bad its worse

id rly wish they would try to make 1 hero build each season better, just so we play it

[brittle fiber]

I think the problem lies in the talents tbh

They could buff the shit out of the numbers in the colossus talents, but theyre still pretty bleak talents

[slow saddle]

nah

just buff demo in ST

and its better

and im happy

oh ye and Why the FUCK cant i get stacks from execute as collosus

as that actually is an enjoyable feature 😄

[dim basalt]

Reverting that would be enough to make col be better in ST no?

[slow saddle]

i actually dont know

that part makes Col execute phase feel good

even if u dont have juggernaut stacked and shit

[smoky kayak]

Yes, but so would a lot of things

• Execute was removed from CMight because it led back to Juggernaught instead of Battlelord

The whole point is to create more gameplay and build variety between Slayer and Colossus, not just make one arbitrarily stronger/weaker. Colossus is meant to revolve around Mortal Strike, not Execute

[warped spade]

Please no. Not until they allow us to move during it. Fyr'alath was already cringe enough on a 2 min cd

[slow saddle]

i mean ive had NO issues dieng in demolishes

Esp in raid

like in raid theres NO excuse

only real gripe is if mobs move out of ability mid cast that sucks

[warped spade]

It's not just the defensive part. It's also the moving out part

Just annoying all around

[slow saddle]

still in a raiding enviourment

its the least of our concerns rly

[smoky kayak]

A lot of people profess worries about Demolish, but after using it a few times you very quickly figure out how to use it without issue

It’s one of those things that seems like it could be a big issue but very rarely/if ever actually is

[slow saddle]

i mean its annoying

if u compare it to wake of ashes

but its deffo what ever

[smoky kayak]

So is playing practically anything compared to Ret, but here we are 😂

[slow saddle]

and slayer basicly banking on having 15 stacks into execute to actually hit patchwerk dmg

[warped spade]

That's until they come out with a raid where every fight is cancer.

[slow saddle]

is so easily refuted by certain bosses

that

meh

[warped coral]

Why demolish doesn’t have last sound ? It finishes without expected clap or sth

[warped spade]

Amirdrassil would be awful

[smoky kayak]

If they ever do, it’ll undoubtedly be addressed then, but they haven’t yet

[smoky kayak]

It does, but the anim is hasted so you might not be catching it?

[slow saddle]

i mean not really

which fight would u struggle gettin a demo in ?

[slow saddle]

ye ret is rly well made. but also had a TON of reworks

[warped spade]

Pretty much everything after council and including council

[slow saddle]

u rly think so?

[smoky kayak]

It was obviously a joke

[slow saddle]

id put fury and ret in the same category

[warped coral]

Hm I dunno maybe it’s becouse lag from playing from eu on pyr

[slow saddle]

for well flowing specv

[smoky kayak]

It’s fine not to like Demolish, but it’s really not as bad as you think. It’s barely more than a GCD, and if you really don’t think you can stand still for that long, the problem isn’t with the raid content or fight design!

[warped coral]

It has def two clap sounds but it’s like third clap finisher is missing

[slow saddle]

y i mean only issue i could c would be smoldy

but there u would hold it to do big clap with buff anyways

so not rly

when i died on fyrakk with axe, it was mainly just me being bad

[smoky kayak]

Worth pointing out that the main Strat for Smolderon dam was also just face tanking rings so you didn’t need to stop dps

[warped spade]

The amount of time the boss was pulled a yard too far at the very end of fyr'alath cast made it cringe. And you had a longer cd to plan ahead and delay

Maybe it's not as bad with more haste but that was basically the same cast time

[warped coral]

How do you play around with every cd with different timing?

[smoky kayak]

Tell your tanks to stop moving shit needlessly, or time your hits better; shouldn’t be using major CDs while targets are moving anyway

And Demo is much faster than Fyr’alath fwiw

[slow saddle]

A LOT faster a

[warped coral]

I find it quite difficult to align cds properly :/

[slow saddle]

but it requires u to play collosus a bit

it is

[rancid solstice]

People still complaining about demolish in 2025? PSHH

[smoky kayak]

Yeah it certainly takes practice, but it’s not terrible once you have a mind for it

[warped coral]

U push every cd separately throughout m+ ?

Or wait

[boreal quartz]

i mean its still just unfun to me

all damage tuning aside i dont like rooting myself

[warped coral]

What I mean is I don’t find any fluency in gameplay with ravager, demolish, wb avatar always on diff cd

[meager stone]

i played demolish all thru season 1, i think i can count with a single hand the times i died from rooting myself with demolish

[boreal quartz]

i didnt die a lot from it but i often times nearly did

and that alone felt bad

[meager stone]

understandable

[smoky kayak]

Skill check!

[boreal quartz]

being able to snail away from the swirly

[warped spade]

It's also just the rooting alone. If I want to stand still I can swap to a caster

[smoky kayak]

leap, charge, intervene

[boreal quartz]

and then it misses the last hit at times

[smoky kayak]

or just stack +speed enchants

gotta time it better!

[boreal quartz]

its not like im unaware

its just not enjoyable to me

wcyd

[smoky kayak]

[rancid solstice]

Hold breath helps

[boreal quartz]

then again theres other things id do before adjusting demolish if i got to redo warrior

[smoky kayak]

not being enjoyable is fine, perhaps an unpopular opinion but not everything should be for everyone, and trying to homogenize everything down so that there's no friction anywhere has been detrimental to WoW as a whole

people who act like it's impossible to play or the worst thing ever™️ are the ones I don't agree with

[boreal quartz]

i mean of the warrior things its certainly the most annoying

but id argue for other specs there more crings things

[smoky kayak]

I can think of a few more annoying ones lol

[boreal quartz]

so we shouldnt complain too much

[rancid solstice]

Ideally the different hero talents would be competitive regardless of what content you’re in, but for some reason that just can’t happen

[boreal quartz]

(parry isnt a warrior specific thing in this list)

[smoky kayak]

but like yeah... Demolish could just be another redundant reflavor of Wake/OF.... and it'd be just as boring as all the others

Is it "fair" that Warriors face this friction and other classes don't? Not really, no... is the answer to remove all friction and just make everything as simple, stupid, and straightforward as possible? not necessarily, no

[boreal quartz]

if demolish were roar its be bad ye

[meager stone]

the answer is give demolish a gigatinc damage reduction while casting, but aint got the balls

[smoky kayak]

it actually does have a pretty decent DR

[boreal quartz]

i think if i got maybe 50% ms id be contempt

but also remove parry

[meager stone]

mora i want to bonk thru the pain

[warped spade]

This

[eager sigil]

demolish should feel abit more like eyebeam tbh

feels way better

[smoky kayak]

"competitive" is a hard term to use there, because what do you consider competitive?

There's no such thing as perfect balance in a game as complicated as this, and Colossus isn't actually that far behind Slayer, so you might actually say it is fairly competitive, even if Slayer is hypothetically ahead

[rancid solstice]

Slayer arms is dog water in m+

[smoky kayak]

mmmm

again, I think it really depends on how you're trying to define these things

[eager sigil]

its fine especially if you dont do huge pulls

[smoky kayak]

people will see a 5 or 10% difference and say "dog water" which is really overstated

[fallen agate]

I just enjoy Colossus. There are a few tricks to use with it to ensure you get the most out of demolish such as heroic leaping to ensure the last hit connects with a target.

[boreal quartz]

in an ideal world they dont take any of the hero tree things into the new expansion beyond potentially opportunist (if they tune down the rage gen)

[rancid solstice]

Well 10% is a gap that’s pretty much full stop not competitive. It doesn’t matter in weekly chore stuff, but you’re never going to try to push the highest content you can on a hero talent that does 10% less

[boreal quartz]

but that world doesnt exist

[meager stone]

i hope demolish stays tbh, having our cd be a big fuck off hit feels right for arms, imo

[smoky kayak]

not even remotely, especially when talking about something like multitarget (since target uptime, pull size/rate, and kill speed make such a huge difference in performance)

[smoky kayak]

Hero talents aren't going anywhere; they will 100% be a feature of at least the next 2 expansions

[boreal quartz]

[fallen agate]

I do wish Blizzard would give Colossus a 15% or 20% size increase and a small bonus to melee range like the old Rouge talent so small movements of targets wouldn't throw the Demolish off.

[rancid solstice]

Maybe more hero trees added is what we will see

[boreal quartz]

do not add long arms to things

[smoky kayak]

unlikely since the +range stuff was really problematic

[boreal quartz]

also size increase can have downsides

[meager stone]

maybe just an increase during demolish

[boreal quartz]

i.e. mid avatar taurens couldnt fit into the train door in Grimrail Depot

so you had to cancelaura it

[smoky kayak]

I do agree that Demo cancelling if a target moves out of range is hella toxic and shouldn't be a thing, but it's also one of those "know where your target is/going" situations (also you should absolutely villify tanks that move targets for no reason, cause that's toxic af no matter what class you're playing)

[fallen agate]

Looks at the Lev gem in the ring

That ls why with most trash packs I Shockwave before I demolish. Tanks be danned I'm getting my full combo off.

[boreal quartz]

that is so fucking int

jesus

[thick kelp]

knockup shockwave

aint inting

i do that when I pug my weeklies

[boreal quartz]

me when i sync melees and oneshot my tank

[thick kelp]

not my problem

shoulda had shield block up

[covert obsidian]

tank should stop moving mobs unnecessarily then

[boreal quartz]

class color diffed tbh

brown lives red dies

[smoky kayak]

I mean tanks that just waddle around mid pull for no reason are the real crux of the issue lol

and thankfully pretty rare, at least in my experience

[thick kelp]

vdh tanks

[fallen agate]

Unless it's a DH

[smoky kayak]

I don't play with those degenerates

[thick kelp]

Only tank I can trust is the brown one

[fallen agate]

I try not to

[boreal quartz]

unless its @ornate eagle

[fallen agate]

But loladins are close second for.. I can't stay still.

Can't tell you how often lately I've had a paladin BOP me to out DPS my warrior. Not as a joke either I've seen then doing it.

[boreal quartz]

are you confusing classic bop with retail bop

or how does that work

[eager sigil]

he bops himself to kill the melees

[boreal quartz]

baseg

[fallen agate]

Maybe its not BOP but it'd something they put on me.

[eager sigil]

the curse of ra

[boreal quartz]

they cant actively reduce your damage with spells

[smoky kayak]

Yeah that's not a thing anymore in modern wow, only classic versions

[boreal quartz]

imagine if you could classic bop someone in cds

reverse aug

[steep osprey]

Can be fixed by making demolish not targetable

And just hit in a frontal cone

[eager sigil]

just warrior eyebeam

[boreal quartz]

yellbeam

raaah in frontal xdd

[fallen agate]

Still laugh at hard-core classic and BoS.

[icy mulch]

HC classic just does not seem interesting. The game was never designed for that to really be a thing. There is always the possibility of a wombo-combo.

[brittle fiber]

It depends what you play it for

At an experienced level, it’s fun to have a bunch of mates in dungeons go “oh shit we can still pull half of cathedral and nuke em down”

Also, change my mind but i think demolish should give an avatar buff

[lunar remnant]

how can I see the talent builds used in the latest google doc sims?

[unborn vessel]

unlucky 5% nerf we are now unplayable let's be real

I'm going to reroll mage since it's the 15th season they are meta

[knotty orchid]

warrior B tier in m+ again

[quaint otter]

B is for Best

B is for Balls

B is for Big boomer

[halcyon valve]

B for Big number

[shadow ibex]

B for weak aura class

[halcyon valve]

are we still saying this shit

every class is a weak aura class

because weak auras are just too good not to use

[shadow ibex]

I don't think other classes track theirs because the base UI notification is delayed?

So yes absolutely still saying that

Maybe you found tracking x2 EP and lethal blows just to make MS worth casting fun tho?

[fresh spire]

must be why they made colossus around shockwave

Shockwave-> demolish

[smoky kayak]

[fresh spire]

knock them up, slam them down from mid air

cinema

[sage badge]

Shockwave dps opener

[fresh spire]

beloved

[nimble basin]

First time trying arms this expansion, the colossus opener for m+ is a bit funky but overall st and aoe pretty simple.

[vast helm]

[nimble basin]

although the cooldowns after opener, we just send them on c/d? doesn't feel like they all naturally line up but maybe that's just me.

only just practising it now so

[dim basalt]

Quite a few new arms players since tier lists started ranking Arms high

kek

[oak kite]

cannot believe people are actually fallling for that

[dim basalt]

ikr

[oak kite]

gl getting an invite over a shaman>ret>dk

[dim basalt]

dks are not looking too hot

[oak kite]

i have been a warrior player for 20 years now. finally this season made me quit after reaching 3k io with warrior. i spent back to back 4 days only applying not palying just applying everyday for 6 to 8 hours. not a single invite.

[swift crown]

@halcyon breach SUPER balls

mega balls even

[eager sigil]

didnt ask + play with friends

[oak kite]

got the ret over 3k, could get the shaman to 624 ilvl in 2 weeks with instant invites.

[eager sigil]

624 in 2 weeks holymoly

[oak kite]

it is an achievement when you work

[halcyon breach]

giga balls

[oak kite]

no need to have that attitute. i am actually sad for the state of warriors.

[halcyon breach]

[dim basalt]

It has nothing to do with warriors

Warrior is in a fine state right now

[eager sigil]

you are the one crying here

[dim basalt]

It is a community issue

[summer cargo]

Do u key easier way to reach 3k

[dim basalt]

Pugging has always been miserable and will stay miserable forever

[oak kite]

i am not , it was just my experience. do you think i enjoy? i do not want to reroll. and @dim basalt u are %100 corrrect when every single video that says warrior has no utility, the perception of us is justterrible.

[olive nest]

yea the invites were giga bad this season for whatever reason

felt worse than the past

[dim basalt]

But its still not like you cant get into title range by pugging as warrior

[olive nest]

oh yeah all achieve title takes is time

it can be done as warrior

you just need more time to waste

or a team

[oak kite]

which unfortunately i do not have.

[dim basalt]

Its not like any other non-meta spec has it easier lol

And even with a meta spec youre not gonna have an easy time

It is what it is

[oak kite]

i will still be going over 3k or whatever is the new high and be server first but yeah i wont be wasting what little precious time i have. and i truly believe on the 2nd or3rd week , we will be nerfed again. sorry for the rant. i am just legit sad and wanted to let some steam off

[icy mulch]

Ancient Aftershock was a goated ability. I miss it.

Why is there so much dooming? 5% isn't the end of the world.

[eager sigil]

not sure you have healthy relationship with this game if you pre doom about nerfs that might come

[dim basalt]

Considering they just nerfed us I dont see them doing any more

And its not like it was unexpected either lol

[vast helm]

[vague nova]

I mean historically the nerfs have come a few weeks in to a tier for warrior, and the original point was all because someone said that people were rerolling arms because we’re A tier on YouTube, so it all is in the scope of the conversation why are you acting like it isn’t.

[oak kite]

i think i have maintained a good relationship with the game for 20 years. just sharing my experience. i am happy if they leave us be. if not well i have had it plenty of times before .

i truly enjoy warrior otherwise i would not main it that long.

[dim basalt]

Not nerfing us wont make us get invited more anyway

[oak kite]

maybe just a little at least the image would change

[severe haven]

pugging is not and has not been the way since forever unfortunately

[gaunt owl]

problem is community hive mind has got the brainrot too far

when you are shit at the game you play meta to compensate for your skill

same as shitty driver buying cars with more hp

[zenith warren]

guys, is anyone playing wow on amd gpu? is everything all right?

im thinking of getting 7900xtx

[smoky kayak]

Historically those nerfs come a few weeks in for everyone, not just war

[smoky kayak]

Love cars with big health pools

[boreal quartz]

i mean wow is a cpu game

[eager sigil]

i got a 5700 and it works just fine

[smoky kayak]

Tuning is a revolving door, if you’ve played the game this long you should be prepared for it

Also it’s a video game, not life or death, play it while you enjoy it and stop when you don’t

[gaunt owl]

[zenith warren]

I knew devs were harsh for warrior since that big nerf for fury tier set in sepulcher

[gaunt owl]

more than fine, but the important part is the CPU

getting an AMD with 3Dx is the best you can has for WoW

[zenith warren]

5800x3d to 9800x3d

[dim basalt]

Im still playing on a R5 3600

[boreal quartz]

7800x3d goes so hard

[quaint otter]

5800х3d sucks due to slower cores

[gaunt owl]

people should go for AM5 socket for sure

AM4 is donezo

[quaint otter]

Truege

8400f is bread and butter if u go budget

[void bay]

Ive got a 9800x3d and mobo sat on my shelf....got it 2 weeks after release....I just cant be bothered building it lol

[eager sigil]

send it to me

ill build it for me

[void bay]

you arent the first to say that 😛

[mighty bridge]

which cpu will make up for the 5% nerf

[dim basalt]

The one in front of your screen

[icy mulch]

Holy shit, Max's list is already creating more brain rot. Even though it was meme.

[sharp wyvern]

ret is just that good no meme

[void bay]

max as in liquid max, or is that guy called max

[sharp wyvern]

this guy

[icy mulch]

Liquid Max's tier list.

[void bay]

oh

yeah they are usually memey

[icy mulch]

This YouTube channel is un-ironically calling Ret S tier. lol

[sharp wyvern]

you know whats funny kalamazi rated every warlock spec in B on max tierliest put put them in A on his own

[void bay]

goddamn warlocks

[icy mulch]

100% down played themselves. lol

[sharp wyvern]

i mean same with mages

[severe haven]

kamalazi gets paid to sandbag warlock

3 separate videos because rain of fire simmed %3 higher than CB in ST

hes a pro

[icy mulch]

That reminds me of when Whirlwind was a better filler in ST than other abilities.

[minor gust]

SoS was the best thing to come out of DF talents and they killed it without giving it a chance in TWW

They made the rage changes and immediately gutted that shit to something useless

If SoS stayed the same and worked with cleave we could have a insane big fat cleave on a bigger CD in ST raid builds blasting.

[wind flicker]

Man im so mad when im not critting on first pull setups for collos stacks

[minor gust]

Should still get it really quickly in AOE thanks to the SS ravager bug

[shadow ibex]

you get insta 10 from ravager and sweeping

[wind flicker]

That doesnt sound like a proper way to setup when ur using collat and mbg

[livid cloak]

11.1 FINAL TIER LIST and 11.1 isn't even out

[shadow ibex]

5 target sim does that

[minor gust]

Don't hold MBG for collateral that's bait

[wind flicker]

Yeah but i doubt "huge" pulls do that

[wind flicker]

Im not

But i dump my demolish before i go into ravager and sweep

[shadow ibex]

takes 4 seconds

[wind flicker]

So i dont demolish inside my sweeping window / mbg

[shadow ibex]

i guess u can roll RNG but APL isn't exactly min/maxing mbg window

[wind flicker]

I mean

[shadow ibex]

gets 3/4 casts off

[wind flicker]

If ur demolishing inside ur ravager

Ur losing a mbg cleave

[minor gust]

Your not

[dim basalt]

Not really

[minor gust]

You demolish in-between cleave cds

[wind flicker]

hmm

So you'd open with sweep ravager then

[livid cloak]

Maybe with blademaster torment you'd lose one

[shadow ibex]

i dont think losing a cleave cast here and there overall is gonnabe a huge difference tbh

[dim basalt]

In the big picture its not a big difference no

[wind flicker]

Just grabbed this over

Ill test it out

Because its pissing me off so hard in Workshop

[minor gust]

Your opener should be like this charge TC roar SS ravager Ava/WB cleave and MS till 10 stacks then demo

[livid cloak]

I still do demolish in ravager/sweep though

[wind flicker]

The crit rng to build stacks is horrible

Lets see

Ill give it a go now and see x)

[minor gust]

You will have a 10 stacks demo before cs falls off

[wind flicker]

Trying now

[minor gust]

And collateral will line with Ava and demolish buff

[shadow ibex]

you can get 10 stacks before avatar reck falls off even

[minor gust]

Yeah ofc

[shadow ibex]

[livid cloak]

With ravager sweep bug and swept ms it adds up very fast

[minor gust]

Also yeah realized late I gave you live talents not PTR glad u figured out the class tree setup xd

[wind flicker]

Yeah i saw it xd

[shadow ibex]

drop bb for finishing blows

[wind flicker]

First time arms in half a year

so im a bit rusty

[minor gust]

I keep forgetting they changed the class tree

[wind flicker]

Surely not with these high pull counts no?

[minor gust]

BB and finishing blows is def just a flex choice

Not that important

[wind flicker]

aight

imma give it a try rn

[minor gust]

BB nice for AOE dmg

[wind flicker]

lets see if we break 20m

[minor gust]

Finishing nice for ST

[wind flicker]

if i dont die to agro every pull that is x(

[livid cloak]

I wonder if slayer will see a lot of play in theater of pain

I've done 0 ptr testing, but iirc that dungeon was A LOT of small pulls

[minor gust]

You could but colossus ST isn't as bad as it was last patch

[livid cloak]

Oh

I guess that's true, lots of ms buffs

And execute

[shadow ibex]

im like 45% of the way to not believing in EP as col

but ur other capstones are ass

fatality surely

[livid cloak]

Ran some no ep this season

[shadow ibex]

i feel like u have to take some rage management talent if u do

cuz ur not affording EP consistently as col

just not possible

[livid cloak]

To take 2/2 bb, 2/2 deft and battlelord

And just no massacre/ep

It seemed fine

But i didn't like the way it played. I like hitting execute so I went back after a couple weeks

[stone marsh]

Hi guys arms still S tier after the nerf?

[shadow ibex]

just go all the way grab fatal

[livid cloak]

I am not smart enough to play fatality abd maximize it

[shadow ibex]

bb next tier is just cursed. 2 points for 10% is actually laughable

[livid cloak]

In st

[shadow ibex]

if cleave applies it

it should really auto pop

because otherwise i guess they expect you to snipe stacks in aoe and feel like other class talents have been changed to avoid that

lightning rod or something?

[smoky kayak]

Cleave applies it but not super well since the stacks get spread around

there's some hypothetical value to Fatality, but in a practical setting it's way too annoying to micromanage to be worthwhile on anything other than bosses - too much potential to miss as stacks get spread around, mobs die before you can execute them, etc

[shadow ibex]

stacks getting spread around isnt a problem if we didnt pop they deal same % per stack its not ramping or anything

yea the problem is we need to get it to trigger

[smoky kayak]

it's a problem because you then need to spend more time popping them

[livid cloak]

Sudden death tclap that also pops fatality

[shadow ibex]

yes and in a world where we dont have to pop them spreading isnt a problem

the fact we need to execute to trigger is the issue not that cleave can apply it to a few targets

[dire hinge]

"s" tier is up to personal interpetation, but yes arms is still quite strong

[smoky kayak]

well yeah if it auto popped that'd be diff (though we'd invariably come up against some jank where a boss auto transitions with a DR and our stacks get wasted, so it's probably not something to strive for)

[shadow ibex]

is that a popular thing in m+?

[minor gust]

man we really need to convince someone at blizz to fix fatality working with cds

[smoky kayak]

it's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation

[stone marsh]

Well the top damage class

[smoky kayak]

I was behind the initial "Fatality shouldn't benefit from CDs" push in Dragonflight, since I wanted to avoid degen gameplay

but at the same time, we've seen how that's caused Fatality to get forgotten and fall behind in tuning, and avoiding degen gameplay doesn't really matter if just nobody ever plays the talent either

[dire hinge]

for sure, but until things are live it's all subject to change, so play what you enjoy

[stone marsh]

I enjoy being top damage

[dire hinge]

currently (without it launching yet!) it's strong

then get good at whatever spec you like playing

[stone marsh]

My friends told me arms is the top damage this season

[smoky kayak]

On the other hand, it benefitting from CDs right now doesn't seem to matter all that much, since it doesn't actually seem to be worth delaying CDs to make that line up happen

[minor gust]

its not but its another layer of rng

will your cds align or not

[smoky kayak]

Sure, but Fatality isn't that much of your damage either

if it were like a 10% pop I'd be a lot more concerned

[minor gust]

its like 6% diff last I heard right

def not that big of a deal in the overall yeah but idk still another layer of a feels bad thats kills the fun

[smoky kayak]

Fatality is like 2.5% of your damage right now

[shadow ibex]

so fatality should be unwieldy and near unusable in aoe (despite being applied by cleave) because maybe at some point in the future we might have a boss where stacks would get wasted

you could just not play fatal on that fight

[smoky kayak]

as a single individual hit, that's pretty good, but in terms of an overall percentage of your damage, that's pretty minor

[minor gust]

yeah like dif as in last I heard was 3% with no cds and 9 with cds

[teal fossil]

Popping it in vs out of cds can mean 1-1.5% of overalls though

[smoky kayak]

CDs aren't influencing it that much

[teal fossil]

I don’t think that sounds right

Ava 20 and cs 30

And whatever debuff slayer/colossus puts

So about double at most

[shadow ibex]

ptr gear had a lot of mast

[teal fossil]

And mastery

[minor gust]

if its been exaggerated then that makes me feel better atleast

[smoky kayak]

yeah, even if you got every single thing together, it would still be less than doubling

I'm not disagreeing with you - it is another layer of RNG, I just don't think it's that impactful

[hollow plover]

yo does anyone have a quick TLDR of things we could prepare for next patch?

[edgy solstice]

your sanity

[smoky kayak]

not saying it should be unsuable in AoE, but as long as there are other AoE talent options, I don't think it's much of a problem either

[dire hinge]

if you plan on running dungeons, you can read up on their mechanics/changes ahead of time, but otherwise, just be nice to your body/brain and get some rest.

[smoky kayak]

that's kinda the whole point of the new expanded talent system, right? to create variety and competing gameplay options - it's fine if one thing isn't great everywhere as long as there are other options you can use there instead

[hollow plover]

fair

[minor gust]

yeah as long as theres solid options for having good mix builds of ST and AOE ive come to accept talents that are just pure ST and AOE

[edgy solstice]

as long as capstones dont have 0% pick rate for an entire expansion

[smoky kayak]

that was the problem in 11.0, Fatality was just never used

[shadow ibex]

we're running near identical talent set ups as both hero specs, even in m+. the biggest change we've seen from .0 to .1 is now slayer likes EB. right now there isn't any variety or gameplay option

if it auto popped colossus might can get away from EP

[smoky kayak]

Colossus liking Battlelord and Fatality again is a big gameplay change

[minor gust]

Colossus doesnt use battlord in ST tho? or did that change very recently

[smoky kayak]

it's been going back and forth

Definitely still needs a little love, but its on the right path

(this is also why Execute shouldn't trigger C.Might anymore, it puts too much emphasis on Exe/Jugg)

[shadow ibex]

i think its cool that col uses fatality in ST but i think it should be an aoe option for the MS/cleave hero spec right?

[smoky kayak]

I wouldn't be against Fatality working in multitarget

[shadow ibex]

like surely using EP, a buff from casting execute to boost ST in a muti target situation is odd over the thing that is applied by the bread and butter abilities of the hero spec

[smoky kayak]

but right now current mechanics just don't really support it

[minor gust]

Thoughts on what if they redesigned arms to be a Bleeds vs Non Bleed builds instead of this MS vs Exe. I feel like because no matter what we focus on we still want to press MS or execute and thats why build variety doesnt really exist with arms

[smoky kayak]

Yall know how Blizz works though, fix one problem and create three more

[steep osprey]

Thoughts on something like this for Arms @shadow ibex

wrong reply, sorry lol

[minor gust]

going all in on bleeds vs going all in on no bleeds could be a lot more engaging of a talent tree

[edgy solstice]

i don't see why fatality shouldn't just auto detonate at a hp threshold instead of being triggered

[smoky kayak]

The main reason is to avoid weird boss phasing issues

targets that fuck off at odd times or get big DR shields, etc

[shadow ibex]

does this mean like rend/DW insta tick remaining duration if target dies with it?

[smoky kayak]

auto detonate would be better for multitarget, but for single target it doesn't really matter since you're going to end up pressing Execute at some point regardless

[shadow ibex]

its my day off im sorry wtf does that mean

[steep osprey]

I'm not sure what it does exactly but I think at 35% both rend and dw just deal the entire damage and expire

[cobalt sinew]

sounds like a

fatal flaw

🕶️
🙂

😎

[shadow ibex]

the only thing i would want to auto blowup is fatal as long as its applied by cleave

[edgy solstice]

it's just an extra layer of clunkiness for MT

it's a way to design colossus to have execute without spamming exe too

[steep osprey]

yeah that's not a bad idea

you guys remember what fatality was roughly the same AP as one MS

[severe haven]

Yes please

[steep osprey]

now it's so far behind lol

[naive sage]

Autodetonate fatality PLEASE

I would be its first fan from that moment on

[dire hinge]

yeah, being able to mass-apply but not mass-pop it seems silly

[steep osprey]

I think DN should do 100% more damage during sweeping

thoughts

[dire hinge]

overpower be pumpin' next patch

[charred brook]

dn

[steep osprey]

it be overpowering

[dire hinge]

DN was king in dragonflight, i am not against it taking a backseat for a little bit

personally

[charred brook]

I loved DN

It was one of my fav parts of arms warrior

[steep osprey]

DN did insane amount of damage in DF for the kind of talent it was

ngl

[dire hinge]

yeah, OP+DN was always our top damage dealer in keys

[steep osprey]

no wonder it got deleted

but it was too far

[olive nest]

I personally like cleave being our big hitter

[gaunt owl]

it was mainly the SS interaction that killed it

[olive nest]

id just like some cleave damage to go back into op/dreadnaught

[quaint otter]

dn still not a thing according to ptr now?

[olive nest]

instead of being 70% cleave damage xD

[steep osprey]

DN nerf paved the way for Cleave pump

[teal fossil]

That creates the problem of sweeping on st

That’s cringe

[steep osprey]

I know

i just thought maybe i'd be cool to sweep on st idk

[dire hinge]

heaven forbid they add a knob for "if OP hits a second target, increase DN damage"

[steep osprey]

i am cooked

[lethal birch]

how is arms in raid ?

[olive nest]

well thats easy "over power does 100% increased damage during sweeping strikes if two or more targets are hit"

[quaint otter]

B tier

[dire hinge]

fine and dandy

[lethal birch]

what are the biggest changes?

[olive nest]

ahh yes xD

[shadow ibex]

i did some keys last night and as much as i love colossus m+ gameplay just cleave spam is boring asf

[charred brook]

DN was what made me love arms in keys

Losing that was depressing

[dire hinge]

DN let me handle explosives

[charred brook]

I was basically arms only until this last season other than Aberrus

It was my fav spec in the game

And I honestly kinda hated it this last season

Very sad

I also rly dislike skullsplitter

[olive nest]

yeah i agree with that! thats why i was saying id like some of cleaves damage to be taken and put into dreadnaught

you already op spam to reset cleave

so it would make sense imo

[quaint otter]

does this affect dn?

[steep osprey]

I like the gameplay of OP/Cleave

sue me

[shadow ibex]

what is it tho

keep cleave on CD

fill withOP/MS depending on tact

[olive nest]

id like TC to do more damage too personally

so itd be like cleave > op > tc depending on targets and weather or not sweep is active

[charred brook]

Make whirlwind also cleave everything it hits

[steep osprey]

What I want is DF S3 set back

[charred brook]

And also make avatar create “avatars” of yourself that bladestorm

Talk about a capstone

[shadow ibex]

anything boosting OP dam boosts DN yea

[teal fossil]

most talents that affects OP generally affects DN

[severe haven]

Ok Samuro

[teal fossil]

you can assume it does unless you report to us otherwise

[charred brook]

xd

[steep osprey]

have you been playing wc3 orc campaign recently

[edgy solstice]

arms will inevitably get reworked into samuro

[severe haven]

Or HOTS

[nova marsh]

Guys

[olive nest]

betrayer!

[quaint otter]

okay u made me to login game

[nova marsh]

All the guilds I'm looking at are looking for warriors

...how hard do you expect us to be nerfed?

[steep osprey]

I am looking at you

[severe haven]

Honestly that's what Slayer should have been: Blademaster

[charred brook]

Give warrior a hero spec that uses a katana and becomes a samurai

[shadow ibex]

i wish arms was like black orc or sword master

[quaint otter]

invis and illusions like wc3 one

[steep osprey]

Tbh Blademaster would be nice as a hero talent

[charred brook]

Honestly though we got mountain thane being like “lore accurate” we should really have arms be more lore accurate

[steep osprey]

I hope we get more

[edgy solstice]

ya

arms has no identity rn, let's be real.

[charred brook]

Like isn’t arms supposed to be like a master of all weapons type dude

[edgy solstice]

give it a few xpacs and we'll be samurais

[charred brook]

Make us have abilities that utilize that

[dire hinge]

let me have a ranged stance cowards

[charred brook]

Let us throw our weapon and get diff abilities until we pick it back up

[steep osprey]

Spam heroic throw

[charred brook]

Or use multiple types of weapons

[severe haven]

A warrior that can invis would make people cry so hard

[dire hinge]

lemme put a bow back on

[quaint otter]

looks like yeah

[shadow ibex]

i hope we get some flavor 1 day

[severe haven]

You should check out GW2

Warrior there is banging

[steep osprey]

oh my god I just had an idea for an ability, You throw your weapon on the floor where it causes an earthquake then you charge in to pick it up and stomp

[charred brook]

I wanna be an actual like arms warrior lore

[steep osprey]

no?

[shadow ibex]

thats just shao khan in mk1 rn

[fickle lotus]

Thinking about coming back for the upcoming Patch, how is Arms looking right now on current PTR ?

[charred brook]

What if while you were inside that weapons circle you did more damage

[steep osprey]

yes

[dire hinge]

extremely strong atm

[steep osprey]

Almost as if we have that already (spear)

[shadow ibex]

he throws his axe on the ground and his punches are better than axe normals

[charred brook]

U might be on to something

[dire hinge]

we gotta overinflate our numbers so we catch more nerfs, reverse sandbag it

[fickle lotus]

Oh cool, what makes Arms strong next Patch ?

[severe haven]

A weapon projectile that traveled and came back would be dope : make it do more dmg on the way back

[severe haven]

Raw stats

[hybrid canopy]

how's it vs fury next patch out of curiosity's sake if I can ask

[charred brook]

So basically make us survival hunter

[dire hinge]

at the moment cleave is doing ridiculous in aoe

[charred brook]

Without the bombs

[hybrid canopy]

(if there's any idea)

[steep osprey]

let me show you this

[charred brook]

And more spinning

Wait

The fuck

[lunar remnant]

I think arms is def the m plus spec not sure what’s the play in raid though

[steep osprey]

of course a pet has it

but we don't

[charred brook]

Felguard is a more accurate arms warrior than arms warrior

[dire hinge]

numbers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10g479vXesC382k68gw4akUKeuGUodbDho0yhKK6Eh0w/edit?usp=sharing

[olive nest]

always arms becuase arms owns

[hybrid canopy]

ty

[olive nest]

[steep osprey]

at this point felguard's BS does more damage than our BS

[severe haven]

Felguard is basically pet arms warrior anyway

[charred brook]

I hate warlocks!!!

[shadow ibex]

we gonna get a huge rework surely gonna be all over marketing material trust

[dire hinge]

arms in execute as slayer

[lunar remnant]

if you’re going off sims alone then yeah arms > fury in all content next season

[steep osprey]

slayer sucks

demo owns

colo*

[dire hinge]

yeah both will be strong next patch it'll be nice

[dim basalt]

Fury still tankier madge

[charred brook]

What if avatar turned us into odyn from halls of valor and we just had his kit for 30 seconds

[hybrid canopy]

I wanna have my warrior prepped for next patch, is it okay to try to practice arms now?

[steep osprey]

It's not strong unless Colo sims higher in ST

[hybrid canopy]

or wait until patch

[dire hinge]

absolutely! our gameplay isn't changing too much

[severe haven]

No but different from like a glyph would be nice even tho I prefer going bigger

[hybrid canopy]

📓 noted

[dire hinge]

and you can learn a lot more about warrior as a whole other than just our rotation ❤️

[hybrid canopy]

i've been doing prot and fury

I haven't touched arms this expac

[dire hinge]

gocha!

[dim basalt]

Hardest thing about warrior is learning to use def stance lmao

[hybrid canopy]

looking forward to it

[hybrid canopy]

honestly LOL

I forget to use it

am dum

[dim basalt]

Considering how many here think that we are squishy

[charred brook]

I unbind it after prog

We are squishy

Comparatively

[dire hinge]

can learn to be a hero and Die by the Sword intervene

[dim basalt]

Compared to what? DK, the tankiest class?

[charred brook]

Basically everybody but Hunter

A warlock is tankier than us

[dim basalt]

Hunter is fairly tanky

Unlike other classes we dont ever need externals

Which is big

[steep osprey]

we are top 5 tanky classes

[charred brook]

Yeah but that’s only because they don’t care if we die

[severe haven]

I have it bound on my mouse..as a pvp enjoyer I developed the habit to swap around

[quaint otter]

big numbers

and utility

[severe haven]

[charred brook]

And it looks like the raid fights will be pretty good for arms kit

[dim basalt]

Are there any M+ trinkets we should look out for next patch?

[umbral patrol]

What is this utility you speak of?

[dim basalt]

🤫

[regal wharf]

is the tier set at least fun

from what I read to it, it looks like dogshti

[severe haven]

No

[teal fossil]

its very strong

[severe haven]

%6? Increase

[charred brook]

It’s not bad

[teal fossil]

whether its fun its up to you

[dim basalt]

Haste go stonks

[sage badge]

is my utility

[severe haven]

Does procs scale with that?

[sage badge]

[dim basalt]

wdym?

[teal fossil]

you could say it does

[dim basalt]

oh that

I would assume it does

[teal fossil]

gaining stacks maybe not

[regal wharf]

i mean ig its just you play the class as normal

🤷🏾‍♂️

[minor gust]

yes you dont really play around the tier

[severe haven]

Nevermind, it's based off OP unlike current tier

[dim basalt]

ye but will feel very satisfying when you proc it during execute phase

[regal wharf]

Im prob gonna pump most of my keys on frost mage cause its much easier to get into parties

[dim basalt]

Not like we have anything satisfying other than execute lmao

[regal wharf]

but warrior will be my second alt

[regal wharf]

colossus smash is pretty good

[dim basalt]

demo as colossus ig

[charred brook]

I think there’s a good chance that arms warrior should be invited this season

If that damage stays the same

[dim basalt]

Even more so if WW stays good

[regal wharf]

ughhh choice paralysis

ill prob just play both

I will say that like

the dungeon pool is pretty dicey

DFC

[umbral patrol]

One day we'll be better than Enhancement Shamans

[eager sigil]

warrior was only better for 20 years

[charred brook]

If we are better than enhance we get nerfed

Keep us right under them

Just enough to be 2-3 on the meters…

[coral crescent]

i think latest st sims has us above enh a teensy bit

[finite wasp]

Do people here think the nerfs were warranted

[eager sigil]

yea

[finite wasp]

Eh

Fair enough we were giga on st so yeah

[charred brook]

Yeah we were just a tad too strong

It’s one of those like, don’t want to be nerfed of course

But understandable

[minor gust]

the nerfs shouldnt have been a surprise to no one in here

[finite wasp]

Ik for me it wasnt i was expecting it to happen

[karmic ledge]

30% aura nerf week 2. Because wars aren't allowed to be happy.

[rugged cobalt]

So lads.. I'm gonna play m+ around the 3.1-3.2k io range next patch. I purely care about blasting top deeps on details. Arms, FDK or Enhance? 🙂

[finite wasp]

Nah i think that might be it unless we get scammed by devs

[minor gust]

a clear meta wont exist till after the .5 patch

everything before is a gamble so have fun

[rugged cobalt]

But arms defo looks like a good contender, no?

[minor gust]

meta never

its a warrior spec

[rugged cobalt]

I don't care about utility, survivability, comps or whatever. I just wanna fk around with friends blasting overall

[minor gust]

will arms do some really good meter pumpin yeah

if your playing with friends def have fun blast arms will crank the overall

[rugged cobalt]

❤️

[lament leaf]

I've been playing as arms + void elf, but I can't see my racials damage in deatils. Does anyone know if the racial is bugged with arms or in general bugged or I am just missing something?

[halcyon breach]

It was changed in 11.0.7 to just be a damage increase, and not a damage duplication

[lament leaf]

I don't feel like that's what the passive says ingame, but I'll take your word for it! tyvm!

[rich kernel]

In lower keys, is slayer or col better?

[halcyon breach]

I don't know what the wording is like, but it's what it was changed to

[rich kernel]

I know higher col is better, but is tehre a pooint it changes?

[eager sigil]

in lower you play whatever you want

[rich kernel]

I mean, I just want the one that can nuke packks down quicker, without wasting setup time etc

and more often

[thick kelp]

hh

[quaint otter]

Imba

[halcyon breach]

It's a bit inconsistent wording between the tooltip and the actual buff

[arctic fjord]

any builds I can use to practice for 11.1?

[eager sigil]

yea play slayer then

[eager sigil]

for m+ you can play the colo build

nothing changes for it really

[rich kernel]

thanks

[arctic fjord]

ty

[daring eagle]

Will Nelf racial be valuable in season 2 or nah?

[eager sigil]

it will probably work on a bunch of casts like always

[naive breach]

think dorf reshel might be good s2

[eager sigil]

that one is also good like always

[dim basalt]

ye there are plenty of use cases for dwarf

[naive breach]

but as archim taught me, if youre not human WTF are you doing

[rare kite]

nelf racial is always useful to a degree. dwarf better next season tho

[naive breach]

did you play ptr mutou

is there anything INSANE to meld

like shield throw in that one df dungeon for example

still have a little race swap token

[rare kite]

no, nothing insane to meld that i could find. tho last boss theater of pain you can meld the pull in which is kinda neat

ohh actually, melding the fixate on elemental boss in motherlode is very nice

but you screw over some other guy

[naive breach]

GRIEFING ??

i like it

[stable sapphire]

melding free samples is insane too

[rare kite]

if it fixates on someone ranged after it's optimal

[stable sapphire]

if no kicks

[blazing plover]

do you guys have any arms M+ build to share for ptr?

[trail orbit]

Current live build lmao

Really only 1 choice to make tbh and it’s whether you go full into the roar talents or skip 1 and put that extra point into 2% crit node.

[smoky kayak]

pretty similar to live yes

[smoky kayak]

guides/faq are still being updated, but if you go to the (PTR version) WH Talent Calc and click Load / Export Builds at the bottom, you can see all of the various builds
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/warrior/arms/

[sick garnet]

This has probably been asked time and time again, but whats the ideal way of simming m+ throughput?

[sage badge]

Single target and 5T. Then make an educated descision on which you want to lean towards. Not sure if the apl on dslice has been kept up to date.

[edgy solstice]

It often isn't so I never bother personally. I just bounce between 1T 5M and 5T 1M, rest is feelycraft by doing 500 keys

[cobalt sinew]

what could they do for arms/fury to make them not the squishiest spec/2nd most squishiest/etc

[eager sigil]

they just gave them more hp

[cobalt sinew]

but will it be enough

[lean geode]

Warrior is extremely tanky against everything but 1shots, so the solution would be a cheat death type mechanic like rogues and dks have

But then warrior is just by far the tankiest dps class overall

[cobalt sinew]

the numbers i saw yesterday for deaths by spec does not paint a good picture to me

[eager sigil]

warrior has like 3 defensive buttons and people are just not pressing them and getting oneshot

[minor gust]

you be surprised how many warriors complain about being squishy and think their only defensive options are parry and ER

[eager sigil]

cant click dstance it lowers my dam

[candid pecan]

true, use parry offensively

[minor gust]

true Revvez brought up parry haste in his guide. Dbts is now an offensive cd

😎

[eager sigil]

is parry haste still a thing?

[cobalt sinew]

even in the top 10% warrior go squish

[dim basalt]

ye

[minor gust]

still a skill issue

many people just lazy about using Dstance because on farm

[charred brook]

It really isn’t, warriors are the squishiest of the plate dps

It is what it is

[minor gust]

Myself included

[charred brook]

We have defensives like d stance, sr, DBTS or ER, even rally. But it’s not anything like other plate classes that can just completely ignore mechanics

[minor gust]

spell reflect

can literally ignore mechanics

[charred brook]

We have no “oh fuck” button, we just have shit we can press beforehand to negate some damage

Dude be real lol

[minor gust]

KEKW

[charred brook]

SR does not work on everything lol

[minor gust]

sure

still an insanely strong defensive cds other classes would love to have

[charred brook]

“Shit I can’t get out of this web line in time I need to press something!”

You die through ER AND SR

If you’re a ret pally, just bubble

A dk, just ams

A rogue, just cloak

[minor gust]

two of those are magic only

gl with a physical one shot

[charred brook]

Yeah and those classes also have other options for those too

[minor gust]

can also just leap out of web blades

[charred brook]

My point is, while we are far from the squishiest class overall, we are definitely not the greatest for defensives

[minor gust]

[charred brook]

And we are definitely the squishiest plate wearers if you’re arms

[sage badge]

I think ignoring a mechanic completely isn't by definition "tanky." You literally ignored a mechanic that would otherwise deal damage to you.
Looking at deaths, fury and arms do die a lot, but their overkill amounts are middling at best when compared to specs that die less but die by a lot more overkill.
Fury overkill damage is as much as unholy dk, but deaths are higher due to the inability to ignore mechanics.

[charred brook]

If by literal definition yes ignoring a mechanic is not “tanky”

But tanky used as a collective term really just means ability to live in a fight

So I would agree with you

The best thing about warrior defensives imo is just SR

Low CD that gives spell damage reduction or in some rare cases completely negates it and does damage

Everything else is meh

[sage badge]

If anything, ret paladin deaths on average have a higher overkill amount, by around 12-13%. They just have a get out of jail card because of bubble/bop.

[charred brook]

DBTS being worse than ER is a travesty

It makes no sense

[teal fossil]

Dbts is outdated in pve

[charred brook]

Yeah

[teal fossil]

You can parry like 1 mechanic every season

[minor gust]

the boss is doing a whirlwind attack oh boy guys

let me parry and still hit him

[edgy solstice]

but deep wounds healing

[sage badge]

They should buff ignore pain

[last inlet]

[minor gust]

[smoky kayak]

has been forever, it's just really hard to take advantage of in the modern game, not the least of which because melees don't make up that much of our damage anymore and we generally have more of a rage surplus rather than a deficit

it's also a lot more risky in the modern game due to how many more non-parryable attacks bosses have

@crimson charm actually popularized the taunt-into-dbts tech back in WoD, by standing in the big whirlwind during Twin Ogron to parry about 40 hits in 5s

[minor gust]

yup dbts is certainly in an interesting spot for us now compared to how much value its had for us in the past

it probably should retire at this point for something else and maybe put dbts in the pvp talents for the pvpers

[steep osprey]

I think the parry portion of DBTS should be a pvp talent but it shouldn’t just be 30% DR for PvE imo

[smoky kayak]

it's still a neat ability, even if the parry portion isn't always useful in group PvE content

[minor gust]

yeah I wouldnt want to get rid of the parry just for the same DR

Parry still has its uses even if rare

[wanton sierra]

i love the parry, dont need to remove it, even the dr is neat]

maybe put a lil utility like, if you dbts and intervene someone the dbts cd is reduced xtimes

[smoky kayak]

my idea back in dragonflight was to change one of the defensive follow-on talents for a new effect that mimiced the other spec

• Arms could talent into an ER-like effect that allowed you to regain health during DbtS
• Fury could talent into guaranteed parry

That way neither spec was really left out, but you'd have to give something up for it

[crimson charm]

Standing in the Whirlwind, with both bosses stacked, in execute, and just pump 40rage executes every global with cds and sweep

Good times

[smoky kayak]

e.g. Fury might have the choice between Warpaint and DbtS-lite (instead of Invigorating Fury) - obviously Warpaint wins in most situations, but having the option for a DbtS effect when you actually need it would be really nice

[minor gust]

DBTS giga buffs DW healing while active for that sick funnel self healing

[smoky kayak]

sure something like that

it'd be better than Stormwall, that's for sure

[minor gust]

lmao so true

[wanton sierra]

interesting ideas for improve arms self healing

[smoky kayak]

I think it would be a nice way to add parity without just giving everyone the same tools, because again - you're spending a talent point on it

[unborn canyon]

i think the issue with that is pvp really, which i hate they keep having pvp balancing affect what classes can have in pve

wish pvp got nuked, or was completely separate with its own abilities etc

[smoky kayak]

Yeah PvP is always an issue

[regal wharf]

make DBTS affected by anger management

[steep osprey]

Almost everything used to be affected by AM in WoD

[vestal isle]

What are the thoughts on arms vs fury next season for raid?

[eager sigil]

both good

arms looks abit ahead

but play whatever you want it wont be a big diff