in m+
#arms
manic stirrup
edgy solstice
if you played with OAM, you will now play arterial anyway
you can be above the tank on bosses now
congrats
except maybe stonevault
OAM in SV is hot
stable peak
might be a nerf, the first line is kinda a big nerf for them I think
regal birch
are numbers out seems like buff overall?
unique warren
any can help me in talents?
jade ember
are numbers out seems like buff overall?
In updates channel
jade ember
oh word
regal birch
honestly they should revert that stupid "hero talent balance" wouldnt break anything and warriors are happy
stable peak
are numbers out seems like buff overall?
they have some numbers for bm in their discord aswell, 9% nerf ST and 9% buff aoe
fossil mantle
what the hell is up with pugs? I am at 2530 rating and I cant get into a 7 smh
regal birch
they have some numbers for bm in their discord aswell, 9% nerf ST and 9% buff ao...
interesting
so its actually fine for them but arms caught in that shit again oh wow
zinc rapids
what the hell is up with pugs? I am at 2530 rating and I cant get into a 7 smh
is your character name any variation of alphapumper?
fossil mantle
is your character name any variation of alphapumper?
haha no, nothing even remotely similar
zinc rapids
not sure then chief 
regal birch
honestly where is shaman tuning? getting mad here every balance patch being targeted while they got a slap on the wrist the first time around
but sorry ill stop ranting getting rly mad if i think about stuff like that
tranquil sundial
ion plays shaman
regal birch
ah i get it
tranquil sundial
jk he doesnt play the game
fossil mantle
ion plays shaman
nothing can beat the state of mage when ghostcrawler was the lead dev. Man would I enjoy hammering that guy's head in
tranquil sundial
these nerfs are all cos the CEO who actually played warrior left the company
regal birch
i dont know if there everwas one
i play warrior since cata and its always weird like this
always
dire hinge
i dont know if there everwas one
oh there was
he's on a yacht right now i believe or some shit
regal birch
fk him leaving this mess behind
zinc rapids
honestly where is shaman tuning? getting mad here every balance patch being targ...
Shamans viewed as 'hard to play' by the average player so even though it's cracked no one seems to care because they aren't good enough to play it
and it seems the devs don't notice unless there's massive player uproar, which is concerning
nerfs and buffs shouldn't be based on how many players complain
tardy hare
so are we down 3.6% total in st?
fossil mantle
Shamans viewed as 'hard to play' by the average player so even though it's crack...
to be fair ench is properly hard in m+, i love warrior but lets be fair. Its one of the more simple dps classes to play.
zinc rapids
to be fair ench is properly hard in m+, i love warrior but lets be fair. Its one...
Sure, but design shouldn't be based on how hard a class is, and if it is that class is probably designed badly and should be made simpler
plain solstice
well fortunately for shamans they can just play ele in m+ and do s tier damage with s tier utility by pressing 2 buttons
zinc rapids
if design is based on 50th percentile parses, then what's the point of any of this
regal birch
also a good enhancer main mate of me said current enhancer isnt even that hard
prisma heart
zinc rapids
it's really not, it's just got a lot of buttons
and that puts players off
like breath of sindragosa puts people off
warrior's popular because it's like a rational functioning human brain designed it and makes sense for anyone who tries it
fringe moon
It’s great that they buffed colossus bleed damage more. Makes some talents even more heavily weighted
fossil mantle
Sure, but design shouldn't be based on how hard a class is, and if it is that cl...
yea but harder classes should have a higher potential by a certain margin. I mean you can very often see that when arcane is the only good mage spec. 2/3 of the mages you invite to keys are absolute morons and yet when fire is the meta specs, things tend to go much better.
zinc rapids
I think that's a separate discussion. Should there be specs that are harder and do more dps? I dunno.
you basically relegate some specs to never being played
fossil mantle
Well i guess we dont have to worry about that given the state of ret and frost. The easier, the more dps it seems like
regal birch
yea basically its just hate on warrior
fossil mantle
Also easy specs being strong inflate the perception of a spec much more and tends to lead to nerfs. Look at fury rn, fury's burst is extremely simple to pull off and this is how we end up with 4 consecutive nerfs. Cause Jimmy One arm and his grandma can pull off insane dps
fossil mantle
kinda not true
im sorry but what about fury's burst makes it intricate at all? its probably one of the most straight forward dps specs out there.
regal birch
fury didnt get slapped cause it is easy it got nerfed cause it seemed to overperform on heroic ansurek and maybe ovinax in blizzards eyes
its so clear that it was the reason blizz intervened fast before even relevant content was there
so basically it got slapped bc of 2 boss designs
the class itself isnt even that amazing overall
fossil mantle
the type of fights we have are very fury oriented, thats the largest reason out there. the spec being easy doesnt help it at all.
Notice how arcane got nerfed only once? Yea...
regal birch
which proves my point that its not bc its easy
fossil mantle
you might need to re-read what I wrote, I said its a contributing factor not the only metric by which blizz make nerfes
dire hinge
i love fighting over speculation it's the best 
regal birch
cause blizz still saw the potential
shouldnt even be the balance philosopy
doubt thats true its pure speculation
fossil mantle
aracane some tiers ago got nerfed more then once and was considered rly
I dont know which tier u are talking about even but whatever
edgy solstice
which tiers
unique warren
why are blunt instruments better than warbreaker?
ornate mountain
gusty oxide
Small nerf, getting a stray bullet from slayer nerfs
nova marsh
why are blunt instruments better than warbreaker?
Better in for the kill uptime, better Single target
Better dps. Papa jhons
quartz gate
arms is already at the top of death statistics... imagine it when colossus is bis 🥲
next sphinx
you don't have to wait king. you can pump up those numbers right now.
plucky zenith
Can't spell warbreaker too lazy to balance separately
yah does just feel like death by assosciation at this point
the fact they nerf the hero talents specifically for fury burst and then compensate fury but not arms in the same patch notes is absolutely wild to me
shadow ibex
yah does just feel like death by assosciation at this point
Same people calling it warbringer still
Can't even be bothered to read a talent tree
wicked aurora
Same people calling it warbringer still
Warbringer was an entirely different thing lol
I miss it tbh
charge stun that didn't DR was pog
edgy solstice
bc you didn't remind them to
edgy solstice
the rule is 7 times
shadow ibex
Warbringer was an entirely different thing lol
Yea they don't know that
They call warbreaker warbringer
wicked aurora
dire hinge
saw a guy running around yesterday named "warbringer" felt bad for him
he specifically must have been nerfed in that patch
nimble yoke
do we just send MS or do we prio getting 2 stacks of EP and MP first if we can?
like if its in execute phase/you have sudden death and you have 2 charges of OP
do you send MS or build it up first
edgy solstice
in execute, you don't ms til you have 2 EP/2 LB
nimble yoke
am i stupid or what's LB
edgy solstice
tier set
dire hinge
you can safely untrack Martial Prowess in regards to Mortal Strike
"Lethal Blows" (tier set proc)
nimble yoke
ah i don't have tier set lmfao
shadow ibex
Tempted to do our heroic clear as colossus
nimble yoke
but good to know
nimble yoke
wait is that 2 set or 4 set
dire hinge
without tier, just spam Execute until your Rend is about to fall off, then you MS once and go back to Executing
4 set
edgy solstice
4
nimble yoke
okok
nimble yoke
without tier, just spam Execute until your Rend is about to fall off, then you M...
oh lmfao seriously?
sick
dire hinge
you weave OP in there to spend your Opportunist (Slayer) procs, or to balance your rage a bit
but yeah basically
dire hinge
nope, only 4set
edgy solstice
ya and since you're spamming exe, you p much just mentally track when you've hit opportunist twice then ms
nimble yoke
cool so i guess i gotta spam more exe lol
dire hinge
it's p silly
shadow ibex
Blizz watching us build up the pre tier exe spam muscle memory only for 4pc to make us track a buff to tell us when MS is worth the global
edgy solstice
Blizz nerfing MS 14 times only to design the tier set around making us press it
muted rune
Blizz gonna need to figure out how to nerf hero talents when targeting one of the specs
south wharf
nothing to figure out, just look at pvp changes, or give compensation buffs
they are just completely clueless
fresh spire
you weave OP in there to spend your Opportunist (Slayer) procs, or to balance yo...
with the coming changes i checked with the nerf
for the most part tracking opport is around a gain still, But if people would rather skip a weakaura doing op second charge is around a 1k loss (execute is still a little weird as you still only want to push it when under 80 rage)
makes it less brainpower at least
dire hinge
oh nifty
so (after reset) just making sure we're using OP @ 2 charges in place of Opportunist tracking (with some execute caveats about rage)
fresh spire
more or less
dire hinge
being able to untrack Opportunist alone sounds nice because of the delay that buff still has
so annoying
fresh spire
before execute just always keep 2nd chrage of op on cd,
in execute just push it when your rage bar is under 80 rage
very simple compared to the cringe aura before (as much as cones one was badass)
now we need ms buff so we can ignore tier bonus
tardy hare
is arms going to still be the single target spec after nerfs and fury buffs?
dire hinge
very simple compared to the cringe aura before (as much as cones one was badass)
that >w< one was chef kiss
dire hinge
is arms going to still be the single target spec after nerfs and fury buffs?
yes most likely, numbers still being crunched. keep an eye on #updates-midnight and they'll be posted there
shadow ibex
now we need ms buff so we can ignore tier bonus
I'm sick of the incompetence man
shadow ibex
If any one of them played this shit
vestal smelt
Hello frens, I really don't like playing SKS on arms, what would that point be better put into that doesn't lose me too much dps?
tacit cedar
Where does colossus end up vs slayer still, even after 18 nerfs slayer still ahead?
empty bough
Arms viable now with fury nerf? Or is fury still better for m+
south wharf
arms got nerfed worse then fury
manic river
Well for M+ arms is good with Colosus, slayer is the one that took a big hit
dire hinge
Arms viable now with fury nerf? Or is fury still better for m+
arms has always been viable wdym 
nova marsh
Arms viable now with fury nerf? Or is fury still better for m+
Arms is fine
south wharf
viable for sitting in m+ queue and mining ore
nova marsh
Just because it's not omega bis hard lock in dosent mean it's not viable.
nova marsh
viable for sitting in m+ queue and mining ore
Oh so like 80% of wows roster does too?
upbeat veldt
viable for sitting in m+ queue and mining ore
hahahaha
wheat lagoon
Oh so like 80% of wows roster does too?
Yeah, I will list an 11 and have 40 dps queue into within 10 seconds
There’s just too many dps push your own keys fellas if you want to do keys
edgy solstice
soloq m+ one day
serene canyon
Then I sit in a group with 3 DPS for 20 minutes and give up and go prot
frosty pike
soloq m+ one day
eww brother ewww
nova marsh
Yeah, I will list an 11 and have 40 dps queue into within 10 seconds
Until I roll a shitty dungeon that no pugg wants to do
So then the advice becomes "GET FRIENDS
south wharf
problem with dps warrior in general is group has to cover all the required utility with CR and BL, so you are competing for 1 dps slot instead of 3
and groups want backup CR from dps, and don't want to be forced into shaman/pres evo
nova marsh
Once again, basically most of the roster
You say that as if it's a warrior specfic problem.
manic river
I know this is silly but I'm just really curious, has someone ever tried something similar to this? 
plain solstice
viable for sitting in m+ queue and mining ore
Viable in follower dungeons with 4 npcs you’re pretending are real players
gilded kraken
and priest has pi
monk has ring, dispel and para
rogue has better cc
war is just fucked lmfao
gilded kraken
it's not that much better
shadow ibex
thats a low bar
manic river
Warrior could maybe have a little bit more of utility (just a little) but we are so starved for points on the main class tree that no one takes the shouts and stuff like that
gilded kraken
even if you take them it doesn't really matter
plain solstice
Warrior could be infinitely more interesting if they embraced the shout/banner fantasy
edgy solstice
plain solstice
They’re just lazy or don’t give a shit
gilded kraken
give warrs lust
see i wish but i think they don't want a tank to have bl
if i had to guess
manic river
Warrior could be infinitely more interesting if they embraced the shout/banner f...
Yup, give us more talents to take on the tree to have extra defensives, fears, buffs to the party etc
south wharf
bloodlust makes total class fantasy, like dropping a flag or a warcry
makes sense for*
manic river
Shouts are just so unused on the class
plain solstice
Group movement/group root escape/lust/group dr banners/shouts
edgy solstice
tbh i think it makes it even easier to balance prot warr if warrs brought lust. pwarr's entire identity is "unkillable tank that does 10x more dmg than every other tank" and if they don't actually do that, then it's a dead spec
manic river
Yeah
manic river
Even if you don't want to give them BL you can make a softer version that is a shout and has some limits idk
edgy solstice
yeah but if it's not some kind of streamlined util that other classes already have, now you're treading into the "support" territory
south wharf
good thing they nerfed rallying cry xD
edgy solstice
i dont want aug warrior
manic river
good thing they nerfed rallying cry xD
Thank you, I mean what would the world be if people could have 15% helath for just 10 secs
Chaos
dire hinge
Warrior could be infinitely more interesting if they embraced the shout/banner f...
And take away from Aug’s identity? 🫣
bronze ether
Wait arms got nerfed
Were arms even top dps on anything
I swear it's just enh shammies and frost DKs
manic river
I rencently had an idea for a skill that actually fits with arms (just silly daydraeming) stern and tactical fantasy (suposedly) that was like a counter that you can only activate for a second but if you react in time you can soak a hit from an enemy and give a hit back and could even be a supporting skill to take away some stuff from the tank. But it's just that, random thoughts
edgy solstice
riposte basically
manic river
Yep
plain solstice
And take away from Aug’s identity? 🫣
manic river
It fits arms in contrast to fury
edgy solstice
said it a few times before but i feel like if any spec is going to get "outlaw'd" next, it's prob arms
shadow ibex
said it a few times before but i feel like if any spec is going to get "outlaw'd...
yea sure
edgy solstice
morphed into some Samurai type shit. Blademasters from WC3
shadow ibex
they've had plenty of opportunities to do this
gilded kraken
idt theyd do that
manic river
morphed into some Samurai type shit. Blademasters from WC3
I mean we are not than far theme wise
edgy solstice
yeah but it takes them 4 years to develop things. look at plunderstorm
shadow ibex
not holding my breath anymore. def not with hero specs being a huge wrench in things
gilded kraken
arms is the only generic 2h warrior in the game
everything else has more class fantasy added on top
manic river
Maybe that could be a future hero talent for arms too
edgy solstice
at this point with hero talents i dont think so either but
plain solstice
I’m not sure what classifies as a “rework” nowadays or how often specs get them but having only played some bfa s1, slands s1, and df s4 since legion I feel like the spec could use some serious updating
edgy solstice
they def gotta commit to some fantasy. Colossus ideally
shadow ibex
you say that but
first sentence in the post on beta about hero classes was
we are happy with the arms class fantasy
manic river
I PERSONALLY think it would also be good to actually differentiate arms and fury a bit more and not having devs thinking they are almost the same with some skill names changed
edgy solstice
shadow ibex
still waiting for someone to ask them to define what that is exactly
because its just as mobile, if not less so, than the other 2 warrior specs
manic river
SUPOSEDLY , by the game descriptions, arms is suposed to be the skilled warrior who uses tactics and precision, gameplay wise it doesn't feel that much
shadow ibex
so idk where the description of a warrior using mobility and overpowering strikes to strike down opponents comes from
edgy solstice
what other classes have rotational abilities that are in the class tree
manic river
Yeah we are like the sligthly slower and less spammy warrior that builds up but
plain solstice
SUPOSEDLY , by the game descriptions, arms is suposed to be the skilled warrior ...
Completely meaningless drivel in a tab target combat system
gilded kraken
its p much just that
quartz canopy
SUPOSEDLY , by the game descriptions, arms is suposed to be the skilled warrior ...
to them, this means having a thousand procs
shadow ibex
stacking buffs to make the first ability you unlock as the arms warrior spec worth using
what a joke
nova marsh
Ya know what I love
manic river
I feel you man, all the opening it's just preparing for a CD
plain solstice
stacking buffs to make the first ability you unlock as the arms warrior spec wo...
😂
gilded kraken
also arms legit just need like 4 buttons gone
its so funny that they reduce arcane buttos but arms has 5 "big" cds all desynced
and 1 of them has random cdr
nova marsh
I depise amarath.
manic river
I mean I don't like becoming like old DK frost and slam 3 buttoms, and that sounds more like fury
manic river
its so funny that they reduce arcane buttos but arms has 5 "big" cds all desynce...
Oh yeah that I aggree
nova marsh
just make arms have the standard 6 buttons
manic river
But it's true a lot of our rotation is looking for like 4 different buffs to align more or less
gilded kraken
and praying all your cds somehow magically line up
shadow ibex
and they should line up because TR and avatar always do
shadow ibex
doesnt matter if CS lines up since avatars 20 sec duration means unless you fuck up and avatar right after a CS even tho its rdy, it should be covered soon
well thats the beauty of it right
and why nothing is impactful
avatar and TR both last long enough for with AM you'll get some overlap of those windows
maybe not 100% or w/e but we also know this is incosequential cuz sim doesnt wait either
aka arms CDs just not impactful anyway
and with AM CS will be up soon anyway
gilded kraken
even if theyre not it just feels awful
nova marsh
Guys can I give blizzard a peition to delete necrotic wake?
gilded kraken
and its so convoluted
manic river
Meanwhile at the start of this expansion Fury just presses BS and something else and does big PP numbers
gilded kraken
knowing whether or not to hold shit
manic river
Guys can I give blizzard a peition to delete necrotic wake?
I always sigh when hearing I have to do that one
nova marsh
I always sigh when hearing I have to do that one
I am so fucking sick of amarth
I depise that boss. Tanks deciding "oh did one person die? WIPE TIME!"
shadow ibex
not like we're a 3 minute class
manic river
The mythic selection in this expansion is... something
edgy solstice
im torn on the button pruning
edgy solstice
yeah there's some obv condensing they could do
nova marsh
Ms replacing cleave would be awful
shadow ibex
im at the point where i'll take exe replacing slam and just having exe cost a lot pre execute phase
zinc rapids
MS and cleave dont need to both exist
You want MS to work aoe as well?
shadow ibex
its done it in the past
tiny dock
edgy solstice
cleave replacing ww was a good start
shadow ibex
we've had passive sweeping
zinc rapids
Careful with that because that's part of the problem with frost right? Oblit cleaving makes it way too overpowered when it's strong.
shadow ibex
where MS hit 3 targets
manic river
But if cleave replaces MS what are you going to use to do decent damage against 1-2?
nova marsh
im at the point where i'll take exe replacing slam and just having exe cost a lo...
Exe replaces slam and gets scaling based off Enemy HP
shadow ibex
holy fuck i swear
gilded kraken
and frost ex ecute
shadow ibex
Ms replacing cleave would be awful
idk what to think when i read shit like this. we had 3 target passive MS in legion
lean bough
Does binding of binding count as an embellishment or not
shadow ibex
rn current situation is us just spamming cleave anyway
edgy solstice
frost was fine when frostscythe was a talent tho. they were just tuned to shit bc breath was too oppressive
shadow ibex
in aoe
nova marsh
idk what to think when i read shit like this. we had 3 target passive MS in legi...
yes but like...let's massacure our ST again?
is it stuck to SS specifically? What happens when SS runs out in a pack?
edgy solstice
ST is the easiest thing to fix when re-designing
nova marsh
Whelp we don't do a lot now cuz our main AoE damage source is just straight up gone
twin hazel
So is Depths still king for Arms 2 handers?
edgy solstice
also in what type of content bc for all of DF, if you were specced ST. you did zero aoe outside of roar
nova marsh
I mean you can just lead into "make SS a toggle" (IT SHOULD BE)
edgy solstice
we have bladestorm now lol
nova marsh
Or even demolish
Demolish does great aoe lol
Honestly
And this is a spicy hot take
But I'd be totally okay if they took away some of our CDs. Or just did what FFXIV does and make certain CDs turn into others
shadow ibex
yes but like...let's massacure our ST again?
are you
you are aware that it would just hit for MS normal dmg
we had passive sweeping in legion
balmy kindle
da heck is deez patch notes
nova marsh
I do think that like SKS is really needless at this point
The bleed part of Arms's has always been a very weak part of the spec to me, and roar is fine...but SKS just makes me go "why"
manic river
I mean you can just lead into "make SS a toggle" (IT SHOULD BE)
That's interesting
nova marsh
It depends on how you do it
Cuz cleave just straight up replacing MS with no way to MS would be awful, that's obvious.
it being tied to CURRENT SS would feel kinda bad
shadow ibex
the fact sweeping makes more targets get affected by tclap rend is lowkey carrying big pulls
they should just never fix this
manic river
The bleed part of Arms's has always been a very weak part of the spec to me, and...
I don't dislike heavy bleedings being a part of arms identity, at least as an option of a build, but if they are going to do it at least do it well and make it really matter for poeple specing into that
south wharf
o7
nova marsh
I don't dislike heavy bleedings being a part of arms identity, at least as an op...
Yes but the main appeal of arms for me is as a sort of big hitter spec (which it isn't really atm aside from colo)
manic river
Yeah i like that too, that's why I say it should be an optional talent branch ideally
Make the sks branch meatier, with stuff for poeple who really want to stack big bleeds
And the rest can focus on other stuff
edgy solstice
i love affliction warrior
nova marsh
I also think at this point you could just make uproar baseline and make Roar a talent that CS turns into roar
GRANTED...am exists
And that would be hilariously busted probally
manic river
And you give more variety to the class, some people go for affliction, other go for meaty hits
nova marsh
I mean really
Do we need another dot spec in wow
But I do get your point
My problem is wow won't allow two distintive playstyles in a single spec to exist
Without one being VERY pitiful
digital umbra
idk aff warlock has two that are both good and play different but maybe thats just an outlier
arms's both play pretty similar
nova marsh
Aff and enhance are the outliars
digital umbra
right
nova marsh
And enhance....still plays decently similiar
Just different prio
But like aside from that and kind of hero talents, it's one playstyle per spec
digital umbra
mhmm
nova marsh
I mean so much of arms's problem is just....a very bad talent tree
That blizzard kind of just...made worse
Warrior's class tree is mostly fine, aside from shockwave
Which is just....in a very silly spot
digital umbra
i think id like slayer to be more in on execute for the flavour, it feels like its kinda leant more into overpower
but thats a pretty minor gripe
nova marsh
Hilariously it kinda makes OP lean more into exe
digital umbra
im sure most people dont care about the flavour of hero specs
digital umbra
yee :3
nova marsh
And some of them are VERY game changing, like Stormbringer enhance
balmy kindle
Cant believe they are actually gonna push through slayer nerfs without compensating
nova marsh
I still thought someone's reaction of "OH MY GOD I HAVE SPECS WITHIN SPECS NOW? God what is wow doing! we should just do classless wow instead!"
nova marsh
Baller af
safe parrot
so whats the verdict on the best talent spec? most of the guides havent been updated since last month...
nova marsh
so whats the verdict on the best talent spec? most of the guides havent been upd...
Because nothing has changed since last month
sure, we got some nerfs, didn't change what we take thou
safe parrot
Because nothing has changed since last month
so the nerfs didnt move the needle much?
fossil quiver
So is arms stronger than fury in raid and m+ ? Both ST and cleave / multi?
nova marsh
na not really
nova marsh
So is arms stronger than fury in raid and m+ ? Both ST and cleave / multi?
not really
Fury is just built different for aoe
ST arms is ahead thou, if we're taking pure st raid
M+...I have no clue
fossil quiver
Ok so fury for m+?
nova marsh
Ok so fury for m+?
Either or is fine
balmy kindle
Demolish having very low cooldowns this week too
nova marsh
Altough if you want a meta spec, warrior isn't really the class for you
Cuz evreytime we're meta blizz grabs the gavel
cursive aspen
whats the talent build for using Slayer Jugg in m+
fossil quiver
Not meta just want it to be good and competitive
fossil quiver
Arms is overall pretty competitive
But I feel like switching from MT tonST in m+ while having a MT build is tougher and less fluid than with fury
lethal acorn
I'm liking Slayer more for Tyrannical week, the aoe build still does very good ST damage, although I'm still taking massacre and EP
nova marsh
But I feel like switching from MT tonST in m+ while having a MT build is tougher...
Well yeah...
because...unlike fury arms actually has an MT rotation
Fury's is literally the same
And the only things that change for MT are SS and cleave existing
balmy kindle
I'm liking Slayer more for Tyrannical week, the aoe build still does very good S...
Depends on your comp, when I run with friends this week i tend to favour slayer too
Just be boss slayer
nova marsh
And just remebering to press TC over rend. But really you don't actually have to care it's such a minor thing
fossil quiver
So in ST you dont wanna use but slam instead?
nova marsh
Ye
lethal acorn
Just be boss slayer
I feel like for Fortified week you can do either Slayer OR Colossus but Colossus feels better in st/raid somehow than in Tyrannical, I can't explain it, and at that point I can just run Slayer for everything
nova marsh
Slam is better then cleave in ST unless you have Colortal
fossil quiver
So in ST you dont wanna use but slam instead?
*cleave
nova marsh
And it's a significant enough diff
lethal acorn
I was one of the biggest Colossus guys and every week Slayer pulls me closer
nova marsh
Having one less button is pretty nice honestly
balmy kindle
I feel like for Fortified week you can do either Slayer OR Colossus but Colossus...
the main pros i like about colossus is boneshaker, 4s is pretty rad.
On demand burst and all is great for m+ as well. of course, this is at great expense of our ST damage
nova marsh
I don't mind BS now that it feels like an actual CD
lethal acorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WukSkC0xcLs But after this video
I see that Slayer has the higher skill ceiling for min/maxing
Colossus just has the higher skill floor
And I prefer the harder stuff
nova marsh
Learning to actually pay attention to what's dying is so important for slayer
So you don't just waste CDR and have bladestorm less
balmy kindle
slayer atm has better tuning, but for all you know blizz can tune colo upwards next season and we will be stacking crit mastery
nova marsh
Honestly I could imagine slayer being dead by next season
Which feels so bad cuz it feels great tbh
lethal acorn
Colossus is all positioning and timing but Slayer is paying attention to your rotation and what mob to prio
lethal acorn
slayer atm has better tuning, but for all you know blizz can tune colo upwards n...
I'm already stacking crit mastery since the beginning as I play Colossus even in raid and now that Colossus keeps getting buffed and Slayer gets nerfed, I'm kinda liking slayer too
nova marsh
I'm really tired of the nerfs tbh
lethal acorn
They're trying to make them close to equal in power but all they need to do is buff passive bleeds on colossus more for ST
nova marsh
But like honestly? As much as I doom, slayer will probally be fine
Just give demolish more damage on the primary target
lethal acorn
You can do that too but I want damage outside of demolish too
nova marsh
Or, my favorite, make practiced strikes an MS reset talent and buff it to 30%
nova marsh
The buff to 30% is so colossus has pre nerf MS
The MS reset part is because of how weak Blord and EB are
I mean ffs, you could just make it grant those talents
And give prot an effect for like....idk shield slam or revenge
balmy kindle
Blord is bad but i always use it for m+, otherwise the downtime is just insane
teal fossil
Blord is bad but i always use it for m+, otherwise the downtime is just insane
seems like you are prioing abilities incorrectly then
nova marsh
That's the problem with hero talents in general
teal fossil
remember that in big pulls filling with TC is not a dps down
because you can only apply rend to 5 at a time
nova marsh
One spec already has something another spec would probally really like on that specfic tree
balmy kindle
seems like you are prioing abilities incorrectly then
well i am doing TCs and slams but on colo u wanna get demo back up asap
balmy kindle
so not MS or cleaving feels very bad
nova marsh
and in colo's case (ms reset talents) those have to be solved IN the spec tree, as the other spec it's sharing it with ALREADY has that
teal fossil
and in colo's case (ms reset talents) those have to be solved IN the spec tree, ...
thats fine because it creates some synergy
balmy kindle
for me downtime = anytime i am pressing TC or slam
it just doesnt feel very good
in m+
teal fossil
i dont think hero talents are meant to be standalone
teal fossil
thane is extremely standalone
all you really need is improved WW
for fury
and for prot it needs nothing
nova marsh
Ah yeah true
teal fossil
stuff that makes your hero tree better without being in the hero tree
nova marsh
I mean the other solution is just buff EB and BL
teal fossil
like how fury s3 doesnt explicitly need annilator but it synergized well
nova marsh
Honestly if we have to drop SKS for EB or Blord I'd be totally okay with that
teal fossil
sks is too much value for 1 point at this point
nova marsh
SKS just feels mid
teal fossil
but i get you
i rather have a weaker talent that synergizes with my kit
than a strong talent that doesnt synergize
lethal acorn
I assume it's better to go slayer in m+ than colossus without sks?
teal fossil
well sks is just a glorified burst button
theres really not much synergy
it doesnt even burst hard anymore
think of it as a ST roar really
balmy kindle
I assume it's better to go slayer in m+ than colossus without sks?
yes colo without sks gets rage starved
lethal acorn
I only take Sks on Colossus if it's ST, but I take it on Slayer whether it's for ST or M+
nova marsh
I'm a heretic who has started to enjoy juggie slayer
edgy solstice
rage eco isn't all that bad even without sks
lethal acorn
yes colo without sks gets rage starved
Hmm, not if you put one point in CT for exe phase
edgy solstice
but not taking sks is griefing
balmy kindle
Hmm, not if you put one point in CT for exe phase
perhaps, but i tend to agree with some of the comments here that colo u should just ignore execute for the most part
either u go all in or nothing
normal hamlet
Are we thinking Colossus when changes go live? Specifically for raiding
nova marsh
Are we thinking Colossus when changes go live? Specifically for raiding
still no
Colo in keys is neat thou
lethal acorn
I already play it in raid, hoping it gets more ST buffs 
nova marsh
but not taking sks is griefing
idk man the ST is not that bad without SKS
Nor is the rage (for slayer)
For colossus....yeah it's pretty bad
lethal acorn
Is Arterial Bleed better for Tyrannical or One Against Many still the play for m+ Colossus
shadow ibex
one is ok for st and ok for aoe the other is really good for AoE
pick what you want more
lethal acorn
And I guess when the bleeds get buffed maybe you could get away with Arterial Bleed at all times
edgy solstice
with arterial getting buffed, might as well just play that
shadow ibex
i think depends mostly on if you slot mbg or not
if you slot mbg i auto slot one against many
may as well go all in on aoe
lethal acorn
What would you take instead of mbg if you don't want it?
lethal acorn
I already have that, so sks I guess
shadow ibex
oh yea i run sks as colo
edgy solstice
ya there's p much two floater points you can put in SD, Massa, MBG or finishing DE/BB
shadow ibex
fuck SD
almost at the point of fuck mass but nothing else to take
finishing blows to fund the exe rotation ofc
if battlelord worked on cleave my eyes might light up
edgy solstice
pls no
balmy kindle
is EP worth taking on colo
lethal acorn
I like EP, it makes you feel like a tactician, setting up mortal strikes, instead of mindless executes (outside of unhinged ravagers)
edgy solstice
blord being good means i gotta try fatality
and yes
EP is too good a talent
- so is SB
balmy kindle
for me on colo its always like, if i take EP, i would need to take mass
if i dont take mass, EP feels kind of eh
lethal acorn
I take those for m+, yeah
shadow ibex
im kinda over EP just a bottom row you cant skip
we'll always need to do boss dmg even in the greediest aoe set up
edgy solstice
ya
balmy kindle
we'll always need to do boss dmg even in the greediest aoe set up
very conflicted still, but i do agree with your take
nova marsh
Doing colossus in mists
balmy kindle
like no EP = my boss damage is really
nova marsh
MY GOD, I hate the duration on stacks
scarlet flint
yo for mercurial egg are you guys locking primary or secondary (haste) on the on use
balmy kindle
yo for mercurial egg are you guys locking primary or secondary (haste) on the on...
i just let it run.. not sure how thte sims
work for it
scarlet flint
unga bunga it is
smoky kayak
sims are not going to model that particularly well, since movement in actual encounters is going to vary greatly, changing how the buffs stack from encounter to encounter
frankly I'm not going to put that much attention into it though, since I have no desire to ever use it 
balmy kindle
it seems 1% over deatachable fang for me so
nova marsh
So I don't hate colosuss
But I do have a point of feedback:....please buff the stack duration
That shit is awful in mists.
Like just bring it up to 30 or 35 secs, 25 is really really short
balmy kindle
why not 1 min
nova marsh
That would be fucking amazing
But watching your buff run out SECONDS before you get to the next group of mobs just feels awful
It's fucking stupid
Like aside from demolish just....ya know, being demolish, that's my main point of feedback atm
balmy kindle
It's one of the reasons that I am conflicted on using arterial bleeding on m+, your stacks run out more than you like it
nova marsh
Yeah just buff the duration and I think colossus is mostly fine
balmy kindle
I have tried using EB to speed building stacks up but mathematically it's kind of poor
shadow ibex
stacks happen fast enough
balmy kindle
Yeah
shadow ibex
with ravager + sweeping still giving 2 stacks per MS cast
may they never fix that shit
nova marsh
Yeah it's just randomly loosing them feels bad
shadow ibex
that and sweeping tclap
nova marsh
idk maybe I'm just a single target junkie who wants to feel useful lol
balmy kindle
I mean you can always play slayer if your group has enough aoe
nova marsh
funny thing is I feel like most groups have enough aoe
balmy kindle
The only reason I feel Colo is better is the affix this week
nova marsh
But also 2 minutes of wow combat feel like an eternity
balmy kindle
That xalnath thing really favours on demand burst
nova marsh
And demolish is basically the only on demand burst arms has
...well and Trorar ig
W/uproar
edgy solstice
it's better for us than most but the affix still sucks
balmy kindle
For sure, friends are struggling because they need to use cooldowns to down that thingn
balmy kindle
For some weird reason ppl still hold on to CDs even tho it's better to just blast
nova marsh
Colo in a +6 city
balmy kindle
Colo in a +6 city
Good luck on 3rd boss 
agile frost
why do none of the AoE builds on Wowhead have WB? Is it an oversight or is is booty this xpac?
smoky kayak
why do none of the AoE builds on Wowhead have WB? Is it an oversight or is is bo...
because Slayer CDR on Bladestorm and Demolish don't align very well with it, and Blunt Instruments allows you to cleave/fit in more GCDs, making it a small multitarget loss in exchange for a noticeable single target gain
agile frost
got it, thanks boss
balmy kindle
It is still usable though on m+
zealous sphinx
But top io on arms runs it
balmy kindle
But top io on arms runs it
It is good TBF, you just nuke on aoe wit it
But you do lose significant boss damage doing so
shadow ibex
Already losing it playing col
balmy kindle
Yeah so might as well double down on our strengths
twin hazel
So is Depths still King or Radiant¿??¿? For 2 hander
nova marsh
colo really is playing DF arms
zinc vortex
do you always hold bladestorm for a CS window?
twin hazel
Anyone???
nova marsh
do you always hold bladestorm for a CS window?
not unless it's under 10 secs out
nova marsh
So is Depths still King or Radiant¿??¿? For 2 hander
Just sim it
zinc vortex
ty
twin hazel
Jesus this is like chat in WOW
balmy cradle
what is the opening on colossus with 0 might stacks, do you send demolish with CS before using ravager or do you use ravager first and use demolish with 10 stacks
wraith cave
Enjoying the nerfs XD?
tulip garden
surely they preview the rework next!!!
that's what theey've been waiting for right
the rework...
old urchin
what is the opening on colossus with 0 might stacks, do you send demolish with C...
I don't. Charge, roar, smash+avatar, SS, Ravager, then cleave, MS, OP. You'll get 10 stacks of demolish super quick
balmy kindle
the key is sweeping ravager
old urchin
Cleave prio until ravager is over then send demolish
old urchin
true
And SS not working with unhinged is so sad but it still works with the auto slam from cleaving multiple targets right?
balmy kindle
iirc the mortal strikes from ravager dont realyl sweep but the stacks do
so its technically a 'bug'
old urchin
OH that's nice
balmy kindle
yeah it really is, once u figure this out colo is a blast on m+
dry ravine
balmy kindle
they are both viable , but pugs i would recommend colo
slayer is better if ur group has alot of aoe and u can be the prior dmg guy
minor gust
Another day of coming from home to see Slayer nerfs
weak rain
but can they stop nerfing slayer XDDD not funny anymore
how much of a nerf is that for raid arms st?
3% or smth like that ?
ebon fern
Is demolish actually increasing the damage the target takes by 100%?
Oh it's up to, what the hell?
So it just does randomly more damage between 1 and 100% at full stacks?
I guess full 100% would have been way too strong?
frank moss
Arms or fury best?
edgy solstice
Arms fucks
teal fossil
Is demolish actually increasing the damage the target takes by 100%?
you are reading it wrong
its 1% per stack
up to 10%
ebon fern
No it's definitely 10% per stack, otherwise mortal strike critting for 3 mill would make no sense in sim, it's just that the damage increase seems to be in a range, from basically nothing, all the way to 100
teal fossil
literally go in game and test it
ebon fern
It's 10%
teal fossil
it says up to 10% based on # of stacks
so the maximum it goes is 10%
if colossus gives you a 100% damage buff then it wouldnt be 10% behind slayer on ST
ebon fern
That would be straight up op
ebon fern
Only 10% is kinda unimpressive though
cunning hound
vale gorge
So nerf on Slayer, some buff on fury to compensate but nothing for arm ? Thats a joke
boreal quartz
runic tundra
nerfing Slayer arms so they can revert the MS nerf
Fatality buffs clearly
vale gorge
any good content creator with m+ videos that anyone would recommend? +10s
They all ether play prot, fury o reroll dk atm
restive frigate
so arms good single target with lots of crit yeah
plucky fern
So nerf on Slayer, some buff on fury to compensate but nothing for arm ? Thats a...
welcome to arms buddy
out spec entirely depends of fury tuning because blizzard doesnt know arms exist
junior marsh
This is it, i am letting my sub lapse, and im quitting, honeymoon phase was already over, and now i literally CANT get into m+ groups because there is no reason to take a warrior over ret, fdk, or enhance. The incompetence is equal parts staggering and frustrating, they clearly, no joke, have no clue what they are even doing anymore.
Thanks blizz, maybe ill be back when you start rebuffing warrior back to middle of the pack.
plucky fern
lmao it always was like this, noone will invite dps warrior in keys, even if our damage is tier S, its still a big risk for pugs to invite warriors because of how bad most of the warrior players are, it was the case since forever, so if you expect to play as a dps warrior in pugs then yeah the end will be like that every time
you either play with a group or you play prot
astral talon
This is it, i am letting my sub lapse, and im quitting, honeymoon phase was alre...
do you have ilvl and score?
if not, noone will take you
it is what it is
junior marsh
boreal quartz
boreal quartz
https://tenor.com/view/yapping-domain-expansion-gif-5923684245747030130
@hexed saddle mentioned
junior marsh
polar briar
I see arms chat has come back to normal after a short breakdown
boreal quartz
gaunt owl
i wasnt ready for man's boobs
gaunt owl
i thought i was in the wrong discord for a minute
boreal quartz
bro is in extreme-yapping-3
gaunt owl
the forbidden channel
astral talon
i depleted three sv 10 😦
wary dune
Do the opportunist nerf change anything in the rota for arms?
boreal quartz
dont think so
arctic hearth
Pretty sure it makes you wanna prio obliterate 100% of the time now
fickle lotus
Do we use SS before BS , so the MS benefits from it or does it not ?
strange perch
Wow equals bad mind blown emoji mortal strike 400k damage button game is bad lets nerf slayer aah expansion dooming time desync every cooldown affix slayer bladestorm cdr wet noodle aah spec
lf an ARMS GOAT!!! need some help with rotation plz dm if any1 free
latent moss
Wow equals bad mind blown emoji mortal strike 400k damage button game is bad lets nerf slayer aah expansion dooming time desync every cooldown affix slayer bladestorm cdr wet noodle aah spec
latent moss
lf an ARMS GOAT!!! need some help with rotation plz dm if any1 free
just send here
strange perch
i meant i wanted some1 to join call
The only thing that feels worse than arms is laundry day which is today the saturday has fallen
strange perch
Chat this is on sale
Yes
misty chasm
whirlwind is fury only now?i just started leveling my warr...
quaint basin
And pala buffs to dmg?
buffs are to templar, which they don't use
slow saddle
Well im bettin now they will?
quaint basin
no idea
slow saddle
We.get nerfs and. Buffs to useless trees
Meanwhile being almost lowest outpit
Output😅
quaint basin
yeah idk why they are hellbent on nerfing slayer each time when they are just buffing unused stuff for other classes
quick vale
they're trying to nerf fury
slow saddle
Esp since in m+
Slayer isnt rly strong
Tbh col could be fixxed in 2 seconds
Make spell work like wake of ashes
- buff baseline ms slightly
arctic hearth
They could 2x MS dmg and we would still not overperform
slow saddle
Nah
M8 a 10% ms buff baseline
With multipliers we got is a lot🤣
Thats why the 15% nerf we got hurt us so much
arctic hearth
Not saying a 2x ms buff would be what we need/should get. Just it wouldnt make warr op
slow saddle
That would be stupid dmg🤣
arctic hearth
Im kinda meeming saying 2x but yeah ms needs a buff
arctic hearth
Slayer ST is ok
slow saddle
If we do a bit to much dmg
arctic hearth
Colo aoe is ok
slow saddle
I want more of my dmg being ms
arctic hearth
We are not top anything and have pretty dog utility
But since they cant separate specs, buffing MS surely would make fury too good somehow😂 sorry dooming while not being able to play this weekend cause im away 🥲
arctic hearth
All mage specs are good who could guess
gaunt owl
yeah they cant separate warriors specs
warrior dev is not the good kind of zugzug
arctic hearth
Dev responsible for warr played ret in vanilla😂
slow saddle
But as said ret dev is cookin since df
When ret is brought to rwf
Ofc fury was as well..
But fury got nerfed to hell as punishment
balmy kindle
Always feel bad for fury wars in my m+ keys, lil bro is doing tank damage
Off cooldowns
quasi torrent
ok but who
slow saddle
Explain why warriors need nerf
boreal quartz
ok but who
slow saddle
Like when we down there why we catching strays🤣
quasi torrent
ok but who
manic river
But since they cant separate specs, buffing MS surely would make fury too good s...
I mean they can do it, other classes have tuning for each spec, but they don't want to
neon niche
ok but who
hollow wave
Explain why warriors need nerf
Explain why arms are getting nerfed
Suffering from the brother's success
slow saddle
Explain why arms are getting nerfed
Brother isnt even that succesfull
😇
Like nerfing st dmg of bladestorm why?
slow saddle
True🤣
shadow ibex
C'mon guys just acknowledge elephant in the room they don't give a shit
slow saddle
But fury was only insane until all got 4p
balmy kindle
C'mon guys just acknowledge elephant in the room they don't give a shit
No
I Wana believe
slow saddle
The exe rotation is hell
Ms should always be pushed pn cd
Anything else is a crime
balmy kindle
Aye holding on lethal blows is kind of
balmy kindle
Now the cope is that after next week's tuning the weeks after notes are pending
slow saddle
Fuck slayer just make us play col at this point
slow saddle
I mean a shared hero talent is. Cringe when its thw wrong one
Shouldda been thane
Big claps and thunder as arms wouldda loved
Good sustained aoe
balmy kindle
Big claps and thunder as arms wouldda loved
For what, arms theme is to bonk with big stick
Fat MS and executes
Fat cleaves
slow saddle
Ye but thane would improve what we do well
Sustained aoe
And hopefully decent st
😅🤣
balmy kindle
Honestly I think Colo is pretty good contrary to popular belief, there are guys here who have great success running Colo as well
manic river
I would have loved to have thane as arms
Is my favourite of the three
And furys were not even using it until now
But well
boreal quartz
Thane arms would been neat
manic river
We also like to use our thunderclaps
manic river
I will have to go prot to enjoy Thane
slow saddle
Fury thane is a thing
manic river
I know and now is getting a bit better, but I'm not a fury guy
latent moss
I wouldve liked clap sd
shouldnt be a thane only thing
balmy kindle
Noodle st spec taking noodle hero talent
latent moss
sd clap should be a talent
manic river
The problem is Blizz fucked up st and gave it all to slayer
latent moss
blizz fucked up and took 0 inspiration
manic river
I mean you make an execute hero tree, who would have thought
balmy kindle
The funny thing is fury ST is pretty low now even on slayer
It's pretty sad to see really
balmy kindle
Maybe, but in m+ even your average pug is doing some sun 550k DPS on st
Ofc player skill is a thing, but I am on the belief the nerfs were too much
balmy kindle
But any ST fight it's very sad
boreal quartz
Helping friends 
balmy kindle
Well I have a SS of a key I ran ytd
Lil fury was kinda sandbagging on bosses
Like legit I am running Colo and bro is lower
I am like 613 and he's 609 so it's not like a big difference in gear too
tacit crystal
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/764349941270315031/1291479317435388037/...
what happened here
boreal quartz
Skissue
regal birch
yea yea we all know warrior certainly didnt need any nerfs fury at best just needed an adjustment to their dmg profile but not even that happened they ended up getting buffed in aoe fk it it is what it is proceed to be a raidbuff again and play sth else for m+
manic river
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/764349941270315031/1291479317435388037/...
What are you running, Colo with arterial and massacre or something like that?
boreal quartz
What are you running, Colo with arterial and massacre or something like that?
Slayer with 1 cleave point and cd
Rest is basically full st
manic river
Ah
boreal quartz
Only for spider keys tho
manic river
You find Slayer with cleave much better for Ara-ara?
elfin violet
Btw guys, does the Blasphemite gem work for you? I am removing my gear with gems and i see no change in speed stat or even in my primary stat..??? i have 3 different color gems
manic river
And how is the aoe doing for adds with just cleave?
tacit crystal
and roar
boreal quartz
But my goal is to kill big mob
manic river
I will have to make a talent tree like that for ara ara
manic river
Yeah I mean just for simplicity
boreal quartz
I have about 5 or so saved builds in my addon
manic river
I still have some of the DF ones saved as memberberries
manic river
Member spinning like a monkey with fervour?
manic river
If the devs just free Demolish and make it a movement channeling with a area in front of you or something
👌
tacit crystal
sadly i need to be practicing aug not warrior
balmy kindle
colo feels giga clunky on arms
The main advantage with Colo Is being more tanky and having a 4s stun
tacit crystal
warrior util
manic river
I mean shockwave has been pretty usefull for me now
can just cut a whole pack entirely
balmy kindle
Well in m+ I would argue brown class
Is good
U just stun and rotate
With interrupts it's pretty dank
manic river
The problem is the stun nerfs this expansion
balmy kindle
Meanwhile ppl are whining on spell casts
manic river
They are not as good as kicks
balmy kindle
They are not as good as kicks
Yes but warrior has extra duration
manic river
And with colo you make them fly a bit